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Legitimate uses for DeCSS

Tabercil writes "Interesting article at the Washington Post, which among other things points out that DeCSS does have valid uses, and that the industry's paranoia over DeCSS is overblown." A reasonable mainstream summary of all the DVD related legal hype. Interesting that the libdvdcss folks have never had a bump with the law, but instead DeCSS takes all the brunt even tho nobody uses it.

239 comments

  1. now if only... by Adrodieu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    they could convince the MPAA.

    --
    "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it" - Voltaire
  2. all ''copyright'' = greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    the TRUTH is that there is no LEGITIMATE use of CSS on the first place

    1. Re:all ''copyright'' = greed by physman · · Score: 0

      If all copyright is greed, then the laws which unhold copyright are wrong and so using DeCSS is justified - whether it is legitimate or not!

      --
      Murphy's Law of Research: Enough research will tend to support your theory.
    2. Re:all ''copyright'' = greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Your right.

      They should use XSLT.

      regards,

      Chris

    3. Re:all ''copyright'' = greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the original post once more--the author said nothing about DeCSS.

    4. Re:all ''copyright'' = greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Your right." His right what? His right testicle? His right arm? Please elaborate...

    5. Re:all ''copyright'' = greed by The+Cydonian · · Score: 1
      the TRUTH is that there is no LEGITIMATE use of CSS on the first place

      Without doubt. JavaScript/HTML tables rul3z! Oh wait...

    6. Re:all ''copyright'' = greed by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 1

      "the TRUTH is that there is no LEGITIMATE use of CSS on the first place"

      Hi. I have a few DVDs I'd like to watch while I go on my business trip next week. My laptop doesn't have a DVD driver. Are you telling me I don't have a legitimate reason to decrypt the discs so I can dump them to my laptop for private viewing?

    7. Re:all ''copyright'' = greed by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      " there is no LEGITIMATE use of CSS on the first place "

      Seeing as how you cannot prove that anything doesn't exist, I don't see what's so insightful about this comment.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    8. Re:all ''copyright'' = greed by Ulven · · Score: 1

      No, not at all. He is saying that there is no legitimate use of CSS, not DeCSS.

      He is talking about the legitimacy of the encryption, rather than the decryption.

    9. Re:all ''copyright'' = greed by hesiod · · Score: 1

      > > "the TRUTH is that there is no LEGITIMATE use of CSS on the first place"

      > Are you telling me I don't have a legitimate reason to decrypt the discs


      PLEASE don't think I agree with the guy who said it, he appears to be an idiot or troll, but I'll point out that he said "in the first place" and you are not in the first place. If it wasn't used "in the first place" you would not need to decrypt it, as it wouldn't be encrypted (probably). If he would have said "no LEGITIMATE use of DeCSS," you would be right.

    10. Re:all ''copyright'' = greed by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 1

      "If he would have said "no LEGITIMATE use of DeCSS," you would be right." -- That's what I thought I had read. But you're right, he was talking about CSS. Sorry about that. I'm a bonehead sometimes.

    11. Re:all ''copyright'' = greed by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 1

      "the TRUTH is that there is no LEGITIMATE use of CSS on the first place"

      Oops. I mistakenly read this as "no legitimate use for DeCSS", not CSS. I apologize for making a stink about it. I wasn't paying enough attention.

    12. Re:all ''copyright'' = greed by hesiod · · Score: 1

      > I'm a bonehead sometimes

      I'm a bonehead the majority of the time, but alas, so is just about everyone else :)

  3. Re:now if only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    OMG! YOU STOLE MY WORDS! Bastard! You know all text is Copyright 2003 Anonymous Coward. Now Slashdot is contributing to this infringement! I shall sue you all!

  4. Quiet! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    Interesting that the libdvdcss folks have never had a bump with the law...
    SHHHHHHH!

    Don't give them any ideas. ;-)
    1. Re:Quiet! by bsharitt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The whole DeCSS thing was a big publcity stunt\scare tactic to try to frighten people into not developing thisngs like it. It just didn't work.

    2. Re:Quiet! by blibbleblobble · · Score: 1

      "The whole DeCSS thing was a big publcity stunt\scare tactic to try to frighten people into not developing thisngs like it. It just didn't work."

      Which is why DeCSS is now in use in a dozen Free Software video players, including the gnome-player, kmovie, apache-mod-dvd, and Emacs' own "M-x play-dvd"

      Or is it still being printed on T-shirts and traded underhand on freenet like some sort of illegal drug?

      If you want the censorship to have not worked, we need to get such a surplus of video-players on linux that it becomes the default platform for video-work. DeCSS is not a success when nobody dares even to link to it, and the top google hit is a fake.

      the current crop

    3. Re:Quiet! by tuba_dude · · Score: 1
      ...Emacs' own "M-x play-dvd"

      I don't use emacs, was that a joke, or is it really turning into it's own OS? Hey, there we go. Let's scrap HURD and finish writing emacs.

      --
      "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
    4. Re:Quiet! by jcast · · Score: 1

      Not OS. Desktop environment. (But they're not turning into one nearly fast enough.)

      --
      There are reasons why democracy does not work nearly as well as capitalism.
      -- David D. Friedman
    5. Re:Quiet! by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      The whole thing was a joke. None of the listed players are real (or at least they don't really use DeCSS). Translating out the sarcasm, he was saying: "The DeCSS lawsuit was sucessful, because mainstream Linux distributions are too afraid of liability to include working DVD players"

      An example of this is the Debian package for playing DVDs. It needs DeCSS (or the equivalent libdvdcss) to work, except on rare unprotected discs. But it doesn't include DeCSS in the package- instead, it tells the user how to download it himself, and then automatically uses it if available.

      (The CSS decoder is kept at http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/groups/dvd/deb/, which is hopefully immune to US prosecution)

    6. Re:Quiet! by geschild · · Score: 1

      It's:

      "SSH"!

      Don't give them any ideas. ;-)

      Won't you ever learn?! ;-)

      --
      Karma? What's that again?
  5. Visability by rf0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is all about visability more than anything else. If you ask your average lay man they might know about DeCSS and taking a stand against it gets a message across. Most lay men won't know anything about libcss. Its not a techincal issue rather more one of believed usage

    Rus

    1. Re:Visability by Saint+Aardvark · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Agreed. I had a conversation with a friend last week, and he offered to loan me a DVD. I told him that I didn't have a player, and wasn't planning to for a while until I could cobble together one of my own that would let me get around the restrictions. He asked what I meant, and e was surprised to learn the sort of things you're not supposed to be able to do (get around region encoding, the unskippable bit, back up to HD, etc.).

      It's not that he's cluless or anything -- he's quite an intelligent guy. But this sort of thing never (well, rarely -- kudos to Mr. Pegoraro for his article) gets mentioned to people shopping at Walmart for their DVD player, or explained in terms that make sense to them. Information wants to be blah blah blah, and people's eyes will glaze over. But try telling them they're not allowed to skip the commercial/FBI warning -- Warner Bros. sez so -- and they'll get mad, all right.

    2. Re:Visability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      No reason to make your own. Check out vcdhelp.com for information on what DVD players can be hacked. Some are more work than others. I never buy one without checking there first.

    3. Re:Visability by Uart · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wait. You can't skip the commercial? I can understand the FBI warning, its not even that intrusive, but the freekin' commercial? There shouldn't even be a commercial on a DVD or VHS that you buy. You pay for a DVD so that you can watch it commercial free and on demand.... /grumble

      --

      Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
    4. Re:Visability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think what you learned from this experience is that the various "restrictions" that you are so up-in-arms about simply don't affect ordinary people. Nobody cares that you can't skip the FBI warning. Ordinary people don't mind waiting for three seconds before the movie starts.

      Your righteous indignation is laughable.

    5. Re:Visability by Saint+Aardvark · · Score: 5, Informative
      Found this bit from The EFF:

      Second, as to proof of current substantial adverse effect, the evidence on the record in this proceeding clearly establishes that it is not just a handful of titles that are affected. 66 individual consumers submitted comments to the Copyright Office in support of this exemption. These comments describe their first-hand experience of encountering non-fast-forwardable promotional material on over 40 different popular titles. These titles included Lilo and Stitch, Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, Toy Story I and II, Monsters, Inc., A Very Merry Pooh Year, Bob the Builder, About a Boy, Blue Crush, American Pie II, The Sixth Sense, Ice Age, the Red Violin, Shawshank Redemption, the Bourne Identity, Baby Mozart and Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer.

      An assessment of the substantial adverse impact on consumers requires consideration of both the number of titles which may contain UOP blocking, and the number of units of each of those titles that have been sold to consumers. All of the titles I mentioned are extremely popular and were high volume sellers. According to the 2002 Year End sales report from Video Business, in 2002 Monsters, Inc sold 11.8 million units, Ice Age sold 7 million units, Lilo and Stitch sold 6.6 million units in the last three weeks of December 2002 alone, and Beauty and the Beast sold 4.3 million units. In total, there are - just for those 4 titles alone - 29.7 million units in consumer households that may have been affected by the inability to fast-forward through commercial advertising. This is hardly an insignificant impact.

      Third, in assessing the impact of these technological measures on noninfringing use, the nature of the harm to individual consumers must be taken into account. In the case of each of the 66 consumers who filed comments with the Copyright Office, the harm was significant, and rose beyond a mere inconvenience. They were not able to avoid the objectionable material. The harm was redoubled when they were not able to prevent their children from viewing the objectionable material on various Disney titles. A number of parents commented that they had specifically purchased DVDs as a means of controlling their children's exposure to commercial advertising, and were understandably upset when they could not fast-forward through that material. This is not a mere inconvenience.

      (Emphasis added by me.)

    6. Re:Visability by whereiswaldo · · Score: 1, Interesting

      But try telling them they're not allowed to skip the commercial/FBI warning...

      I get turned off every time I come to an unskippable part of a DVD. If DVD quality wasn't so much better than VHS, I wouldn't bother with it. The lack of control the customer has over their own purchase is ridiculous.

    7. Re:Visability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      piss off, biotch

    8. Re:Visability by ncc74656 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      But try telling them they're not allowed to skip the commercial/FBI warning...

      I get turned off every time I come to an unskippable part of a DVD. If DVD quality wasn't so much better than VHS, I wouldn't bother with it. The lack of control the customer has over their own purchase is ridiculous.

      Track down an Apex AD600A...there's nothing that's unskippable on one of those. Most of the time, pressing PBC OFF twice and then pressing DVD DIGEST will take you straight to the root menu, past any ads/FBI warnings/etc. On the rare occasions that they're part of the movie VTS and not a separate VTS, you can turn playback control off entirely by pressing PBC OFF, then skip around to wherever you want to go. Mine has the latest firmware and an upgraded loader (read: 16x IDE DVD-ROM drive) so it'll play DVD-Rs and -RWs...it'll play damn near anything I can throw at it.

      You won't find them in stores anymore, but I'd guess that they turn up on eBay from time to time.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    9. Re:Visability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, I see. A philosophical discussion.

    10. Re:Visability by badasscat · · Score: 2, Informative

      Track down an Apex AD600A...there's nothing that's unskippable on one of those.

      Unfortunately, the picture quality on this model is awful. It was among the earliest models that used standard off-the-shelf PC DVD drives along with an on-board decoder (as opposed to a custom-made design in most big-name DVD players). There is a noticeable difference in picture quality when playing almost any DVD on this player vs. another player - this is the reason I sold mine.

      However, there are plenty of other hackable players that let you fast forward through the junk. Most of these are cheap Chinese players like the Apex AD600A, but not all, and even the cheap players these days are perfectly acceptable. My Daewoo DVG3000N (a Chinese player sold under a Korean brand name) lets me skip through everything after replacing the firmware chip, and its picture quality is far superior to the AD600A. Look around for a player made for sale in Hong Kong (just do a Google search for "region free DVD") - these don't need to be hacked, have no region-protection and generally no macrovision, and the vast majority of them will let you skip through anything as well.

      One more oddity about the AD600A, though, which is back on-topic - its hidden menu let you strip CSS. I have no idea what you could use this for as there didn't seem to be any way to actually hook up a PC to the machine, but the option was there, strangely enough. I haven't seen this feature in another home DVD player.

    11. Re:Visability by 24-bit+Voxel · · Score: 1

      I've never had any trouble hitting the 'next chapter' or 'track forward' button on my computer dvd prog or home dvd player to skip the FBI warning and studio logos. Is this not normal?

      (I haven't altered my dvd playing hardware in any way ever.)

      Vox

    12. Re:Visability by ncc74656 · · Score: 1
      Track down an Apex AD600A...there's nothing that's unskippable on one of those.

      Unfortunately, the picture quality on this model is awful. It was among the earliest models that used standard off-the-shelf PC DVD drives along with an on-board decoder (as opposed to a custom-made design in most big-name DVD players). There is a noticeable difference in picture quality when playing almost any DVD on this player vs. another player - this is the reason I sold mine.

      I've not had any complaints about the video quality on mine...was there something specific that you thought was wrong with it? (The only other point of reference I'd have at this point would be PowerDVD running on a computer, though I used a Dxr2 in an old K6-200 that I no longer have before I bought the Apex.)

      One more oddity about the AD600A, though, which is back on-topic - its hidden menu let you strip CSS.

      Actually, all it let you do was disable CSS decryption...not useful at all for most home use. The intended use of the feature, IIRC, was in kiosk applications where you didn't want somebody to just pop in a random DVD and play (instead, you'd put in your own video on a CSS-free DVD). Even that seems far-fetched, though, as a kiosk would most likely have the player locked away in a box.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    13. Re:Visability by Tiny+Wolf+v3 · · Score: 1
      I suggest these parents educate themselves on using a DVD remote control. On all DVD players I have seen you can just press the Stop button (twice), and then press play and the movie will start. If they're trying to bypass the promotional material, why don't they try pressing the most obvious button on their remotes? They say "not a mere inconvenience", I say it's just mere ignorance.

      I think CSS is pointless, but I really wish people could bark at the right tree.

      --
      There was a .sig here. It's gone now.
    14. Re:Visability by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      Are you sure it's so easy to bypass? Disney's Tarzan DVD is particularly notorious for having 5 minutes of unskippable advertisements at the beginning.

    15. Re:Visability by Tiny+Wolf+v3 · · Score: 1

      I have never bought a DVD from Disney to be quite honest, so I don't know if it's true. I have an extensive DVD collection however, as do some of my acquaintances, and we have never encountered a DVD where the Stop button is coded to not work.
      AFAIK, all buttons relating to playback except the Start button can be turned off. If anyone has any information otherwise (apart from hearsay), please say so and I'll know I'm wrong. All I say is from personal experience and what I've read, as I don't have any insight in the inner workings of DVD content control software.

      --
      There was a .sig here. It's gone now.
    16. Re:Visability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only wankers reply to sigs.

      What's this all about?

    17. Re:Visability by japhmi · · Score: 1

      On all DVD players I have seen you can just press the Stop button (twice), and then press play and the movie will start.

      While I haven't tried this yet on my DVD player, I know it isn't in the manual. If it's not there, then even if it's true on most/all DVD players, most people don't know about it.

      --
      "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
  6. At last. by sketerpot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People have known that there are perfectly legitimate uses for DeCSS for how long now? I see this as a mixture of good news and bad news. Good news that the mainstream media are figuring this out, bad news that it took so long. And will it make any difference? The media as a whole seem to be eating out of the *AA's hands. Witness the article about music piracy in Time....

    1. Re:At last. by twiztidlojik · · Score: 1

      Did you read the February 2003 Wired?

      I don't think that this is true. Wired, while somewhat of a "niche" magazine, is also becoming more prevalent.

      --
      I will now redundantly add my name to the end of my post. You know, in case you forgot me or something.
    2. Re:At last. by Daytona955i · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Legitimate use for DeCSS? Like what? Not paying your fees and watching a DVD on Linux? Well that's illegal. Copying a DVD? Well that's illegal too. The only possible use I see would be to copy it to your hard drive *if you own the dvd* but it would be illegal to play it on an unlicensed dvd player so what's the point. Oh and just going around the copy protection is illegal too thanks to the DMCA.

      Is it right? Well I think once I buy a dvd I should be able to watch it on whatever I want, and this includes Linux. However the law doesn't look at it that way because people like RIAA and the MPAA has money to lobby for laws to make things like this illegal. Granted they probably aren't going to go after someone like VideoLAN because they are not copying DVD's, it's used as a player. I don't think that is a court battle they are willing to try yet because I think if it goes to court it will get thrown out. They are more likely to go after dvd copying programs as they are taking out more of a hit out of their profits.

      To sum up: it is illegal, but it shouldn't be. The DMCA is an evil bill and it needs to be thrown out. I for one use VideoLAN Client all the time. It's a great player for everything.

    3. Re:At last. by Catiline · · Score: 2, Informative
      Not paying your fees and watching a DVD on Linux? Well that's illegal.

      Just curious here, but what viewing fees did you have in mind about watching DVDs? Do you mean the fees that are paid by the software authors, or some fee I have never heard of that is paid by the end user?

    4. Re:At last. by FauxPasIII · · Score: 1

      >> The media as a whole seem to be eating out of the *AA's hands

      To quote the Borg queen, you imply a disparity where none exists. The *AA (I prefer the term 'MAFIAA') is the media.

      --
      25% Funny, 25% Insightful, 25% Informative, 25% Troll
    5. Re:At last. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watching a DVD on a Linux box is NOT illegal.

    6. Re:At last. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sense a bit of sarcasm here. Have the moderators and other child posters not read the entire post?

    7. Re:At last. by Blkdeath · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Legitimate use for DeCSS? Like what? Not paying your fees and watching a DVD on Linux? Well that's illegal.

      So I meander to Walmart and pick up a $25CDN DVD disc, bring it home, and I'm now not allowed to watch same because I don't run Windows on my workstation or own a DVD player? Also, I fail to see the illegality of doing so. I did pay for the right to watch my purchase, did I not?

      Copying a DVD? Well that's illegal too.

      That's funny, I thought copyright laws dealt with the re-distribution of copyrighted materials. Why is it anybody's business if I want to have 200 copies of Resevoir Dogs lying around my house? (Maybe they make great beer coasters ... )

      The only possible use I see would be to copy it to your hard drive *if you own the dvd* but it would be illegal to play it on an unlicensed dvd player so what's the point.

      Illegal? You mean, the contracts/licenses established between the movie studios and the electronics manufacturers are now somehow legally binding on the end-user (who, I might add, not only had no foreknowledge of said contracts, but was never even once consulted on, or asked to agree to same, letalone sign one with a witness present)? That's some magic law you've got there.

      --
      BD Phone Home!

      Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.

    8. Re:At last. by len_harms · · Score: 1

      So I meander to Walmart and pick up a $25CDN DVD disc

      This is the real reason for CSS. In this case region 1 disks. You can buy a 'CDN' or 'USA' disk and the both work on region 1 players. However say you are in France. You need a different region player if you buy your disk there. It is about trade control. CSS is not content scrabling system. The encryption was 'strong enough'. They figured it would last about 5-10 years before someone brute forced it. But they also figured the would have something way better by that time. Someone left the keys in the open and DeCSS was born. So now they are trying to fix a technical problem with law. They had the problem before anyway. How long before someone figured out how to copy the whole disk bit by bit and to hell with breaking CSS. Just let it do what it needs to.

      The really fun part is that the studios are playing the money market game. Trying to leverage even more money out of people. We know it but they are trying to sell it as 'security' its not security. Its a trade control. Because if you make a bit by bit copy 'encryption and all' you still get a copy.

      I for one have no problem making a copy of something I own. The problem comes in when someone gives away a copy of something they own. That is where the studios are getting bent out of shape. They are also starting to get odd ideas that they own each playing of the thing. They do not realize that we like our control. We do not want to pay for every play. They will figure it out when it costs them more to run the per play system than to sell copies outright.

      The other fun part is that they are whining that they are 'down' in sales. They maybe should wake up and notice the recession thats going on. Someone that does not have a job will not be buying a luxury item like a music cd or a dvd.

    9. Re:At last. by anubi · · Score: 1
      Yes, I did.

      And I still stand by how I modded it: ( +1,Insightful )

      I am not considering whats "legal" or not.. my main concern is what is "right".

      And I think Daytona has a pretty good insight on the problem.

      "Well I think once I buy a dvd I should be able to watch it on whatever I want, and this includes Linux."
      Hence, my reaction to his post.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    10. Re:At last. by Jardine · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, you appear to live in Canada. We don't have an equivalent to the DMCA so you can decrypt things as much as you want.

    11. Re:At last. by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Hi, thanks for that.

      Well that's the whole point that I hoped the lawsuit against the author of DeCSS would bring out. What have we bought when we buy a DVD?

      Clearly the DVD content providers want you to buy the disk, *plus* an approved player with attached royalties, *and* a copy for each region you want to play the disk in.

      Movie studios don't want you to do your own imports. They want to control the distribution of films around the world. They want to be free to delay the distribution of a film, say in Australia, for several years. At the same time they don't want to impede the sales of DVDs of the same film, say in the USA. They don't want people in Australia to be able to view the film in their home theatre before it's distributed there.

      They do not want you to view your paid-for films from your hard disk. They don't want you to make backups of their content, they want you to pay again if your disk gets damaged somehow.

      In the future they want to be able to introduce DVD media that become unplayable after a few days or a number of runs.

      All the above is made impossible by DeCSS. Movie studios have only themselves to blame. They tried to be too greedy and it backfired on them.

      However don't be too optimistic about movie studios learning a lesson from this. The next digital format to come along will have strong encryption.

  7. Redundant? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uh, this is first post, how can this be 'redundant'?
    Oh... you mean 'obvious'. Well, there's no 'obvious' mod, so get over it. Use your mod points to mod things up, not down.

    Thank you

  8. Legit Uses? by darkpixel2k · · Score: 2, Funny

    Legitimate uses?

    Thank God! I've been looking for a few good excuses^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hreasons to tell the MPAA when they come to my door.

    --
    There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
  9. DeCSS a necessity... by maharito · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I (and many other linux users) have known for a long time that DeCSS/libdvdcss is a necessity for those of us who like movies, but refuse to run windoze. I find it heartening that a media outlet such as the Washington post recognizes valid uses for the same. Maybe now the various distros out there won't make their users jump through hoops just to watch a dvd.

    1. Re:DeCSS a necessity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you didn't read his post.

      He doesn't want to play videos on WINDOZE.

      It doesn't matter. He loves his Lunox computer. His work is on there, his friends are on there, his sexual release is on there, his (RIGHTFULLY) stolen music is on there, and now, his DVDs can be watched on there! NO WIN-DOZE FOR HIM.

      WINDOZE (TM): The mark of RESISTANCE!

    2. Re:DeCSS a necessity... by xenotrout · · Score: 1

      What about those without TVs? $59 for a DVD player + $69 for a 13" TV + $20 if TV or DVD player doesn't come with cables = $130 (+ tax, if applicable) for crappy DVD watching. Plus you need some floor or table space. It all seems too inconvinient for me. So I guess I just shouldn't [give the MPAA money to] watch DVDs.
      Why should I have to buy redundant equipment? What ever happened to letting law enforcement officials enforce law?

    3. Re:DeCSS a necessity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It all seems too inconvinient for me.

      Then you don't get to watch DVD's. Sorry. Try again when you move out of the fucking dorm and get a job, you child.

      What ever happened to letting law enforcement officials enforce law?

      They do. That's why you can't use DeCSS. It's against the law.

    4. Re:DeCSS a necessity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then the law can go fuck itself.
      And you can too.

    5. Re:DeCSS a necessity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a student with VERY limited space, I simply don't
      have room for a tv. Thank God for capture cards and
      libdecss. Also Gentoo dosen't make you "jump thru
      hoops" to load libdecss

    6. Re:DeCSS a necessity... by xenotrout · · Score: 1

      that's what I was saying--I don't get to watch DVDs. I'm not happy with that, but it's the truth of the matter.

      What I was also saying is that CSS is trying to enforce the law, as is any other copy protection. And actually, I know lots of people who haven't been busted for pirating lots of RIAA-owned music and expensive software. So I guess I've just proven myself wrong and given a legitimate reason for CSS?

      But as many have said, copy protection nulls consumer privillages that do not violate copyright laws, and may even be expected under fair use clauses. It also nulls the public domain and perpetuates copyrights.
      Maybe that's all fine and legal, but I'm not happy with it.
      The public domain is a very important part of copyright law, that's why it's part of copyright law.

      Oh well, the law is at is it; I guess I'll just twiddle my thumbs.

  10. Re:now if only... by Adrodieu · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    actually, I had posted the first post by an AC... forgot to allow cookies and it didn't log me in. Thanks for your input though.

    --
    "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it" - Voltaire
  11. I wonder... by kien · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ..if the MPAA is going to sue the Washington Post for the same reason that they sued 2600. I doubt they've got the chutzpah for that legal fight, but it would be quite interesting if they did.

    --K.

    --
    Sig: Bad people happen. Try to avoid being one of them.
    1. Re:I wonder... by Ishkibble · · Score: 1

      why would they sue the Washington Post?

    2. Re:I wonder... by moonbender · · Score: 4, Funny

      You mean they need a reason now? ;)

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      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    3. Re:I wonder... by QuackQuack · · Score: 1

      I can't think of a better advertisment for all that's wrong with the DMCA than having a major media outlet sued under it for just reporting a story.

      Bring it on!

      --
      By reading this sig, you agree to the terms of my sig license.
  12. css.. by Ishkibble · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    CSS is to encryption, as MTV is to music.

    they both suck!

    1. Re:css.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wasn't aware MTV actually played music these days. It's always whinging teens whenever I flick through!

    2. Re:css.. by Ishkibble · · Score: 0, Redundant

      exactly

    3. Re:css.. by len_harms · · Score: 1

      CSS was actually a 'decent' encryption. The alg was well understood. But the keys were unknown. They were unknown for 3+ years. Till one of the 'legit' players left one of their keys in the open. Someone then figured out the 'other' keys from it. Go ahead, give it a shot. Do not use the keys that are out there. Use just the alg and figure out what the keys are. You will not find CSS that easy to crack. CSS is about region control. So they can sell a DVD in one region for 20 dollar US, and in another region sell the SAME dvd for 30 dollars US.

      But like you say MTV sucks. It does. Its was a sad sad sad day when vh1 is better than mtv. Course then again MTV was not all that good in the first place. If whiney teenagers doing stupid crap raises ratings for them ... I for one do not watch.

    4. Re:css.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIRC, once you had any CSS player key, you could decrypt the secret key for the content itself and then brute-force all the other player keys in a matter of hours if not minutes. "Decent" algorithms can withstand known-plaintext attacks.

    5. Re:css.. by len_harms · · Score: 1

      yes you can brute force the keys in hours on TODAYS computers. That was one of the goals of the type of encryption they used. It was meant that each player had a special code. Each equally capable of decrypting it. Now pull out your P120 which was fairly high end when DVD's were specd out. How long will it take you now?

      In this case once you know they keys the alg is garbage. Duuuuh. At the time there was NO one that knew how to get one of these numbers. That was the point. The number was sufficantly difficult to get. That is the point of all current encryption. It takes a while to figure out the magic key. Think about it. You pick a number. You then have to look at the output and see if it turned out ok. Next number. This is NOT a trivial problem.

      Do not belive me TRY it. Try to get one of the magic numbers starting at 1.

      Also look at what they were trying to do. They were not interested in 'security' if they were they would have used a realllllllly beefy one like you said. My whole point was that it was decent enough. It did its job which is to control regions and enforce trade restrictions. It also put the bar high enough that the casual copier could not get at the thing. Once one of the numbers was known they were done. Becuase they wanted each player to have its own number so they could know whom to sue if a number leaked. How do you think they were getting these numbers? They couldnt make them up. They had to have some sort of cyclical type thing going. Otherwise you could not make a new player with a new number and it be tracable or revokable. Revokable ah yes the 'punishment' they hung over the players if they leaked a key. Your player may not play our movies if we feel you have done something wrong.

      Also remember that most DVD players are about 1995's tech. So this alg not only had to be workable enough. It had to have a decent execute speed, in hardware, to decode real time 5-15 meg a second. You are not going to get that with a beefy alg. So they made some sacrifices so they could actually ship.

      Also the whole thing was ludicrous in the first place. As anyone who sits down to reallllly pirate stuff will tell you. An exact bit by bit copy sells exactly the same as a 'cracked' version. We the viewer care less about encryption, security, regions, CSS, or any of that. All we want to know is when is movie X coming out so we can buy it.

    6. Re:css.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      P120? heh.
      Try P166 or P200 being the high end.
      P120 back then was entry level. You couldnt get new P75s or P90s back then.

    7. Re:css.. by len_harms · · Score: 1

      166-200 wasnt till the end of 95. That means real availablity was not till like begining 96. Might have a few computer shoppers still laying around to look it up. Even on those whats being suggested would have been a chore. I wouldnt want to do anything like that on anything less than a 733 (mid 99). Even then just guessing those numbers would still be awfull. No DeCSS was a lucky break... Because even IF you were lucky enough to guess the number you would have to verify it through visual inspection. Which instantly makes the thing a sticky problem to solve. The problem wasnt something you could let the computer whirrr away at and just come up with a magic number. It involved a human interaction. If someone had had a 'encrypted' and a 'non encrypted' version of any movie it probably could have been solved as well. But no studios were giving that up... Which is why I say the encyption they used was 'decent'. Because it was dificult enough to crack. Which is the point of encryption. To make it so hard you can not do it in a reasonable time frame.

      intel cpu history

  13. Re:of course... by Ost99 · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you strike the (and anybody else), you got it right. Copying to friends and family is a fair use right in Eurpoe (but it will probably not last).

    - Ost

    --
    ---- Sig. gone.
  14. Not to mention open source works.. by wfberg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've had no problems playing DVDs using videolan on windows, but no luck whatsoever with a variety of closed source programs such as powerdvd and windows media player. Same DVD, same drive, same operating system. Fully licensed commercial crap = don't work, open source = works beautifully and will even rip it for me, add subtitles and make an SVCD out of it so I can watch a German language flick with my American friends.

    Glad to see the Post gets it.

    --
    SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    1. Re:Not to mention open source works.. by thx2001r · · Score: 1

      PowerDVD didn't work? Can you please explain "didn't work"? Does that mean it didn't play DVD's out of your region or copied ones for you?

      I've used PowerDVD for many years now and it works just fine with commercial, region 1 DVDs. Which DVD's didn't PowerDVD work with?

      --

      -Joe
      If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr

    2. Re:Not to mention open source works.. by wfberg · · Score: 1

      PowerDVD didn't work? Can you please explain "didn't work"?


      Didn't work in the sense that my DVD player does nothing but grind, and the entire computer is unresponsive to any input, including the CTRL-ALT-DEL or the soft-off switch (have to hold it for 4 seconds to have the BIOS kick in and sort things out). Is that part of the "region codes" DRM as well? Even with region-free DVDs?

      Videolan worked. PowerDVD did not. Don't FUD me around with region codes.
      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    3. Re:Not to mention open source works.. by NotAnotherReboot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't see how the parent of this post is "5, Interesting." PowerDVD works just fine on every system I have ever seen; I have never seen anyone complain about it. I would bet that this "videolan" program is actually more limited in terms of actually playing the movies.

      I don't see why you need to rip it, add subtitles, and make an SVCD. If the DVD has the English subtitles, why not put the DVD in the drive and turn on the subtitles?

    4. Re:Not to mention open source works.. by Blkdeath · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I've used PowerDVD for many years now and it works just fine with commercial, region 1 DVDs. Which DVD's didn't PowerDVD work with?

      PowerDVD and Windows Media Player are actually quite poor DVD players, IME. Most of our customers switch to another package as soon as they find out they're available. That this demonstrates lack of quality on the part of closed software as a whole is doubtful, those are the facts.

      (I myself have had to convince customers that their hardware was, in fact, perfectly fine; it was their DVD software hard-locking their computers in endless wait-states that was causing the problem. The parent poster has a valid point.)

      --
      BD Phone Home!

      Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.

    5. Re:Not to mention open source works.. by plj · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Unfortunately, it doesn't always work anymore. I've an Apple 12" PBook with Matshita UJ-815 DVD-R drive, which refuses to read the VOBs on DVDs if the disc region differs from drive's one even with libdvdcss under Linux.
      Videolan mailing list has a post explaining this. Needless to say, I was really pissed off when I realized that I can no longer watch my R1 discs except with my region-cracked standalone player.
      And no, no firmware cracks out there either.

      --
      “Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
    6. Re:Not to mention open source works.. by wfberg · · Score: 1

      I don't see how the parent of this post is "5, Interesting." PowerDVD works just fine on every system I have ever seen


      Which goes to prove you haven't seen my system.


      I would bet that this "videolan" program is actually more limited in terms of actually playing the movies.


      You could download it and give it a try. I did mention it's open source.


      I don't see why you need to rip it, add subtitles, and make an SVCD. If the DVD has the English subtitles, why not put the DVD in the drive and turn on the subtitles?


      What if the DVD doesn't have English subtitles?
      (BTW, for subtitling, you'd need sub station alpha and virtualdub; works a charm).

      Don't you mean..?

      What? No English subtitles? Surely there is no such thing! This must in the same kind of la-la phantasy land where PowerDVD won't work on your (imaginary) system, but videolan, an obviously inferior player, though I've never used it, will!
      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    7. Re:Not to mention open source works.. by thx2001r · · Score: 1

      I'm not trying to "FUD" you around with region codes. It was extremely UNCLEAR as to what didn't work for you (in your statement from your post) and I thought you might be referring to the DRM in the program (PowerDVD) causing the problem.

      I have never had any problems with PowerDVD playing store-bought DVD's (I've never had the chance to try any copied ones so I was curious if its DRM somehow detects them and crashes on purpose) on any systems I've used... personally, I've switched primarily to a hardware DVD decoder by Sigma Systems...

      My computer is more than quick enough to do the software DVD decoding but I get almost no processor hit using the hardware DVD decoder (I've actually rendered 3D video at the same time as watching a DVD (or two) with no additional time taken in the rendering process... since my PC is my only DVD player, I prefer not to lose that functionality when rendering 3D video projects (that takes many hours)).

      --

      -Joe
      If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr

    8. Re:Not to mention open source works.. by thx2001r · · Score: 1

      I suppose I'd never heard of the problems he had encountered.

      Was he using PowerDVD from the 3.x series? I own software from the 2.x series that works as advertised and functions fine in Win98 and 2000 (haven't tried it in XP).

      Agreed, the poor quality of this product doesn't justify that closed sourced software is garbage. Open source produces just as much garbage as closed source. There are examples of great pieces of software for both worlds and probably a disproportionate quantity of poorly written and/or designed examples for both worlds as well.

      --

      -Joe
      If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr

    9. Re:Not to mention open source works.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back in the day, old versions of PowerDVD did have trouble with drives. The latest versions of powerdvd are absolutely great. I'm a sys-admin at a universtiy and I install it on all the various computers on campus that have DVD drives. I've never ONCE had a student come tell me that PowerDVD wouldn't play their dvd.

    10. Re:Not to mention open source works.. by shepd · · Score: 1

      >Didn't work in the sense that my DVD player does nothing but grind, and the entire computer is unresponsive to any input, including the CTRL-ALT-DEL or the soft-off switch (have to hold it for 4 seconds to have the BIOS kick in and sort things out).

      If you feed PowerDVD XP 4.0 an MPEG-2 file (or DVD) with an incorrect size in the first header it will lock and BSOD in any windows.

      It's a realiably consistent, and never fixed problem.

      WinDVD simply plays the file squashed or clipped to the specified resolution (as should happen).

      And if you're wondering why this would happen, anybody who has recorded a DVB stream has had the idea of burning it to DVD. Unfortunately, most DVB streams aren't valid DVD resolutions and have to be patched to see if your player can cope with the file.

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    11. Re:Not to mention open source works.. by Sabalon · · Score: 1

      I'll complain about PowerDVD - it's flaky in my experience. Usually works, sometimes just completly hangs while trying to load the DVD.

      I've not had trouble with WinDVD though.

  15. An alternate history by lateralus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think that we should allow what we of weak taste call "movies and music" studios to succeed. Allow them perfect control of everything. You will not be able to do anything without paying them but run a Commodore 64 that is disconnected from the Internet.

    The result?

    The complete, total and utter collapse of the above Industries. People will not be able or willing to afford even to buy a book online because of crippling proprietary formats and greedy prices. No one will be interested in anything digital anymore, disconnected we will peacefully slip back to telling stories by the fireplace (reading them off the C64's screen that is).

    Or maybe not.

    --
    If you outlaw the law, only criminals will have laws
    1. Re:An alternate history by bj8rn · · Score: 1
      . People will not be able or willing to afford even to buy a book online because of crippling proprietary formats and greedy prices

      The horror of reading letters printed in black ink on white(ish) paper! I want freedom of choice! Red hieroglyphs on black papyrus rolls! Oh well, at least I have Project Gutenberg and other such pages providing me with good reading in the non-proprietary pure text format for free - and I can read them on my laptop in any color I like ^_^

      You are partly right, though - most scientific and philosophy books are too darn expensive for me to buy.

      --
      Hell is not other people; it is yourself. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
    2. Re:An alternate history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Errr... NO!

      I am not going to advocate burning the barn to get some mice out of the hayloft. Letting the *AA's win, even if that 'victory' destroys them, is a baaaaad idea.

  16. Wrong. by cduffy · · Score: 3, Informative

    One huge difference: While your copy is physically loaned out to a friend, neither you or any of your other friends can use it. You're not making a new copy, you're just passing one around.

    Doing the IRC thing, OTOH, you're actually making additional copies which can then be used concurrently. Big no-no.

    1. Re:Wrong. by moonbender · · Score: 1

      It's a big no-no, all right, but obviously one that doesn't make sense on many levels - no sense at all on the technical level, for instance. But similarily, is my one copy being used concurrently when I watch it with friends at home? What if I show it to everyone in the building? What if I use cable to show (ie. broadcast) it to everyone in the building? It's really an arbitrary limitation.

      (Not that you implied anything to the contrary.)

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    2. Re:Wrong. by Jellybob · · Score: 1

      Check the copyright statement, it explicitly denies you the right to broadcast it to everyone in the building, or broadcast it in any way (hell... you're not even allowed to watch it with your friends if you happen to work on an oil rig.)

    3. Re:Wrong. by moonbender · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um, I know that's what the copyright statement says, I'm saying it does not make sense though. That's the point! :)

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      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    4. Re:Wrong. by cduffy · · Score: 1

      "Public performance" is the cutoff point. If you and your good friends are huddled 'round the TV, that's not public. If it's everyone in the building, it almost certainly is. Personally, I don't think the limit's all that arbitrary.

      Anyhow, watching it with friends at home doesn't involve making copies for everyone. Yes, maybe I'm just arguing with the presumption of the same arbitrary line you think is so silly... but then, I don't think it is. After all, a line needs to be drawn somewhere with regard to how far these restrictions given to encourage authors and other creators go, and public performance and duplication are fairly clearcut places to draw the line, which permit fairly little abuse but allow quite a bit of legitimate freedom. If you can propose a better standard, fine -- but please, *do* propose a complete, consistant standard rather than just proposing to add loopholes or exceptions to the existing one where they're convenient to you.

    5. Re:Wrong. by ShineyNewSlashdotAcc · · Score: 1

      That said there are also provisions for various fair use caveats. Such as play a DVD to a group of film students in film school.

    6. Re:Wrong. by cduffy · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, there *is* fair use.

      Your example might be a little iffy, though -- at least if playing the DVD in its entirety, rather than short segments demonstrating interesting techniques.

  17. Haha by DougMackensie · · Score: 5, Funny

    Oh sure. Whats next?
    Legitimate uses for Mp3s?

    1. Re:Haha by JeffTL · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why yes, convenient playback! (though Ogg Vorbis and AAC are superior)

    2. Re:Haha by Jason_says · · Score: 1
      Is that supposed to be funny?

      mp3.com, making legitimate use of mp3s for over 3 years.

      why is that so hard to believe?

  18. Yep I use libdvdcss... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to play DVDs that are from outside my native region. The MPAA will pry my hard-drive containing libdvdcss and my region 2 DVDs out of my cold bloody fingers.

  19. Use the tool for work you hold the copyright. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem is not using some ripping technology, but using some technology which is not copyright-aware. You should be able to burn your work in CDs, DVDs, [whatever]. The only problem is that you have to let the system know that you are the copyright owner. Simpl, right? But I think the free-riding OSS community needs a system that skips copyright ownership.

  20. The use is already legitimate... by Thinkit3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is copyright law that is illigetimate.

    --
    -Libertarian secular transhumanist
    1. Re:The use is already legitimate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll keep that in mind the next time you write "The Great American (or whatever) Novel."

    2. Re:The use is already legitimate... by Gerad · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This may have been moderated "Funny", but it has a point. The US Constitution gives Congress the power to "promote the progress of science and useful arts" by estabishing copyrights and similar intellectual property. Abuse of copyright for personal greed doesn't promote the arts, in some cases it retards the progress of the arts.

      --
      Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
  21. Re:self destruction by arcanumas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah. Why don't we make them explode and chops your fingers off when you try to RIP them or lend them? Maybe there should be a poisonous surface that realeases the poison after it has been Ripped, therefore killing the perpetrator.
    I find this very fascinating. In fact , since the US still has the capital punishment in effect, why don't you fry their asses in case the poison does not work or it is "libDePoison"'d?
    And naturally, the company will be legally covered with a warning label on the DVD that would say something like "Infidels risk mutilation"
    Very nice idea indeed.

    --
    Slashdot Sig. version 0.1alpha. Use at your own risk.
  22. Re:self destruction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or when it detects the DeCSS rays it could send out an army of robots to take the pirate into custody.

  23. Re:now if only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    liar!

  24. My childrens' videos... by Keebler71 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To those who say that DVDs are indestructable, I suggest you let your 3 year old play with them a few times. Parenting techniques aside, I have found one good use for decrypting... we have purchased several children's educational DVDs but each only has about 30 minutes of material. Rather than continuously swapping them out, I decrypted them and copied a few of them onto one DVD so they play end-to-end. Can you think of a better "fair-use" example?

    --
    "It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
    1. Re:My childrens' videos... by Boogaroo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Another good use for parents can be the removal of Macrovision protection. It allows you to put the DVD on VHS so you can give the kids the movie in a format that's a little less likely to be destroyed in ten seconds.

      If you have a DVD burner, you could also give the kids the back-up version instead of the original to avoid the same problem(loss of the original).

      Solution one is probably beyond most parent's computer ability, and solution two is pricey(DVD burner ~=$300). However, in comparison to having the kid ruin the originals it can be cheaper since X x $20 = Big bucks if your kid scratches a movie every other week.

      The movie studios want to have it so that you only own the disk, but restrict you like you only license the content. If you are paying "only" for the disk, you should be allowed to back it up. If you only payed for the content then the studios should replace the disk no matter what happens to it since what you payed for was "the right to watch the movie when you want to."

    2. Re:My childrens' videos... by NotAnotherReboot · · Score: 1

      Not to mention my Gladiator DVD is complete toast. There isn't a scratch on it. I doubt there are warranties on DVD discs, although if I'm paying for the content and not the medium why would it be a problem to pay something like a dollar to get a replacement disc? (not to mention the fact that DVDs cost more than VHS cassettes, although they are far cheaper to make, or for that matter, why are CDs generally sold for more than the tape if I'm paying for a license to listen to it?)

  25. So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are legitimate uses for nuclear weapons, too. There are legitimate uses for guns. There are legitimate uses for Dubya, for crying out loud. Does that mean these things should be tolerated??

    Just because you can dig up one excuse doesn't mean it's okay.

    1. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because you think it's not okay, doesn't make it so.

      It's also funny (and pretty sad) when people compare little things like "watching a DVD you bought on *gasp* a DIFFERENT OPERATING SYSTEM in your own home" to weapons capable of killing people and a megalomaniacal warmonger. Way to go there buddy...

    2. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, man, reckless disregard for human right and the law is the same whether it's the president of the united states or some kid watching a pirated DVD. Wrong is wrong.

      Now, if you want to be a hypocrit, go right ahead. I have no problem with hypocrisy. But don't you dare try to deny that violating somebody's rights and breaking the law is okay in one case but not the other. That's so much bullshit it makes me sick.

  26. Doubt it. by phalse+phace · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The Washington Post, for one, can afford their own team of lawyers. Aside from being seen as a "legitimate" news source, compared to 2600, in the eyes of the public, the Post can't be so easily intimidated. More importantly, the info isn't being published by a bunch of "hackers." And we all know how "hackers" are portrayed in the media.

    It probably comes down to the publics perception of who's doing the reporting and what's being reported. Just like the NY Times and Wired News weren't sued for posting a link to DeCSS in their past articles, the Washington Post won't be either.

    1. Re:Doubt it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIRC they DID sue CNN.com for linking to DeCSS.

    2. Re:Doubt it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      the Post can't be so easily intimidated.
      The Washington Post is actually pretty quick to back down at signs of controversy... This is pretty obvious by the way they cover politics.

      I could elaborate, but I won't. I might get flames from both ends of the political spectrum. :) I will say, though, that I don't respect the Post much as an institution.

      -Anonymous Coward from the DC area.
  27. yeah by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

    I can't walk roud the supermarket without hearing people talking about DeCSS.

    Wise up, sunshine, I could ask 100 computer programmers about DeCSS and none of them would know wtf I was on about.

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    1. Re:yeah by cmeans · · Score: 3, Funny
      Yes, but to be honest, it's likely they would all be VB programmers :)

    2. Re:yeah by muzzmac · · Score: 1

      Programmers who work whilst under the influence of a southern aussie beer?

    3. Re:yeah by cmeans · · Score: 1
      That would certainly be a valid excuse for the quality of the VB code I've seen :)

  28. Re:self destruction by small_dick · · Score: 5, Insightful

    actually what the USA will probably do is simply poison everyone at birth, and an antidote will be doled out over you lifespan based on the quality of your citizenship and/or the volume of your consumer purchases.

    --


    Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
    See my user info for links.
  29. Well duh by Durandal64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of course there are legitimate uses for DeCSS. They're called set-top and Windows DVD players. Furthermore, what if I want to rip a DVD that has 40 seconds of non-fast-forwardable commercial trash a the beginning and burn just the movie's video track to a DVD-R?

  30. Re:of course... by alienhazard · · Score: 1, Informative

    i dont know if you have ever actually read the back of a dvd. some of the ones i have read actually say that you may not lend, rent, or borrow the dvd.

    --
    > "I allege that SCO is full of it" -Linus
  31. more ligit uses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's an example of a ligitimate use of DeCSS... I'm do damned poor or too much of a cheap ass to get a new dvd drive to replace mine that barely reads. So every time I want to watch a dvd (DS9) on my computer (only dvd player in the house) I've got to rip it onto a hard dive then play it back skip free. It does play regulary somewhat but the audio is skippy because the data rate transfer is too slow. So yes there are ligit uses.

  32. why? by dh003i · · Score: 0, Troll

    Why the fuck should I spend $59 for a DVD TV player, when I can watch it for free on my computer? Also, my TV isn't going to go with me wherever I go. My laptop is.

    Fuck off, asshole.

    1. Re:why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why the fuck should I spend $59 for a DVD TV player, when I can watch it for free on my computer?

      Because you can't watch it on your computer without breaking the law.

      Fuck off, yourself.

    2. Re:why? by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 1

      Fuck the law and fuck you.
      I own the DVD. I own the computer.
      I'll do what the fuck I want with it.
      Fuck licenses. No such shit exists because I do not agree to them.
      I bought it, it's mine. Possesion is 9/10ths of the law.

      Fuckstick...

  33. Unskippable commercials suck by C3ntaur · · Score: 5, Informative

    Back in the days before DVD, whenever I bought a new VHS video for my collection I'd do a few things during my first viewing of it. First, I fast-forwarded through all the commercials at the beginning of the tape. Sometimes this would come out to more than 15 minutes worth of crap. Next, I took the tape out of the player, cut the labels at the cartridge seam, removed the screws from the cartridge, and opened it up. Then, I carefully removed the take-up spool, and cut the tape. I unspooled all the crap from the take-up spool, pulled out the little retainer clip, and threw the crap in the trash. Finally, I reconnected the remaining tape to the take-up spool and put the retaining clip back in, and put everything back together. Voila! My tape was now configured the way it should have been from the getgo: no commercials.

    I'm pretty sure I was well within my legal rights to do this to tapes I had purchased legitimately, and that no *AA organization or anyone else would even think about going after me for it. All this has changed with the DMCA and digital formats. IANAL, but it seems pretty stupid to me that physically hacking a tape I bought is perfectly legal, while digitally doing the same thing in a much less invasive manner to a DVD is not.

    --
    Loading...
    1. Re:Unskippable commercials suck by follower-fillet · · Score: 1

      Or something even simpler that can't now be done:

      1. Fast forward through adverts.

      2. Reset counter to 00:00:00.

      3. Watch movie.

      4. Hit "Rewind to Zero" button on remote.

      5. Repeat from step 3.

      No commericials (without requiring physical change to the media)...

      ObProfit:

      6. Profit!!!

    2. Re:Unskippable commercials suck by C3ntaur · · Score: 1

      Well, there's a certain satisfaction in removing the offending material entirely. Beyond that, your method only works for players that have a rewind to zero function. It also precludes using a rewinding machine to save wear and tear on the player's tape heads.

      --
      Loading...
  34. DeCSS Perl Code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    #!/usr/bin/perl
    # 472-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz <sipb-iap-dvd@mit.edu>
    # MPEG 2 PS VOB file -> descrambled output on stdout.
    # usage: perl -I <k1>:<k2>:<k3>:<k4>:<k5&gt ; qrpff
    # where k1..k5 are the title key bytes in least to most-significant order

    s''$/=\2048;while(<>){G=29;R=142;if((@a=u nqT="C*",_)[20]&48){D=89;_=unqb24,qT,@
    b=map{ ord qB8,unqb8,qT,_^$a[--D]}@INC;s/...$/1$&/;Q=unqV,qb2 5,_;H=73;O=$b[4]<<9
    |256|$b[3];Q=Q>>8^(P=(E=255)& (Q>>12^Q>>4^Q/8^Q))<<17,O=O>>8^(E&(F=(S=O>>14&7^O)
    ^S*8^S<<6))<<9,_=(map{U=_%16orE^=R^=110&(S=(unqT ,"\xb\ntd\xbz\x14d")[_/16%8]);E
    ^=(72,@z=(64,72,G ^=12*(U-2?0:S&17)),H^=_%64?12:0,@z)[_%8]}(16..271) )[_]^((D>>=8
    )+=P+(~F&E))for@a[128..$#a]}print+qT ,@a}';s/[D-HO-U_]/\$$&/g;s/q/pack+/g;eval

    1. Re:DeCSS Perl Code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      =]
      oh no! now we are going to all get busted for having the code!

    2. Re:DeCSS Perl Code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bah I say to those who think Perl is unreadable/unmaintainable.

    3. Re:DeCSS Perl Code by NamShubCMX · · Score: 3, Funny

      someone reminds me why Ive never got into perl...? :)

      --
      We've always been at war with Eurasia.
    4. Re:DeCSS Perl Code by the+endless · · Score: 1
      s''$/=\2048;while(){G=29;R=142;if((@a=u nqT="C*",_)[20]&48){D=89;_=unqb24,qT,@ b=map{ ord qB8,unqb8,qT,_^$a[--D]}@INC;s/...$/1$&/;Q=unqV,qb2 5,_;H=73;O=$b[4]>8^(P=(E=255)&; (Q>>12^Q>>4^Q/8^Q))>8^(E&(F=(S=O>>14&7^O ) ^S*8^S>=8 )+=P+(~F&E))for@a[128..$#a]}print+qT ,@a}';s/[D-HO-U_]/\$$&/g;s/q/pack+/g;eval

      Which encoding are you using here? It doesn't seem to be base64...

  35. We are all thieves and pirates... by Wolfbone · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At least that's what the MPAA and CCA among others like to think and that's because people tend to imagine that others are minimally dissimilar to themselves.

    I use and only ever have used OSS because it has always been the only choice for software development, mathematical and scientific software that I can reasonably afford.

    I bought a DVD drive some years ago and have since spent a lot of money on DVD movies. I have no intention of turning my PC into an industrial scale pirating machine, I don't even copy DVDs to hard drive - why would I bother?

    None of my friends has ever asked me to copy a DVD for them and I don't expect they ever will since they know I'd just say "Buy your own you tight fisted git!"

    Do I sound like a normal consumer of entertainment media? Aren't almost all people who buy DVDs like me? I hope so because I might be afraid to go outside if the streets are full of the kind of people the MPAA/CCA thinks they are. If they want to catch pirates then they can use something like unique watermarking together with investigative, forensic and epidemiological methods and cease trying to gain absolute control over each and every individual consumer from within their steel and concrete fortresses.

    If the entertainment and publishing industries succeed in their Orwellian objectives and make it impossible for me to watch DVD movies on my GNU/Linux box I'll no longer be buying 3 or 4 movies a month, I might even be so angry I don't go to the cinema any more. But one thing I'll never do is castrate and lobotomize my PC by installing software on it that suits not my interests but the interests of the corporate megalomaniacs.

    1. Re:We are all thieves and pirates... by AYEq · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think that you are giving humanity a little too much credit when it comes to the "anonymous" crimes. Especially when it is against some entity(sp) that well feel has evil profit motivations. You even weigthed you argument by using the projoritive "megolomainiac".

      To be completley honest I fear where this is all heading either way. If the companies have their way then we will all own lobotomized machines instead of the wonderful general purpose machines that we see in front of us today (honestly, people from the early days probably even feel that these machines have been disabled for economic reasons)

      If the people win there is a real possibility that piracy could destroy a few industries that do provide some use. One could argue that there could be a new P2P like move production/distribution scheme, but to tell you the honest truth, I don't have the time to wade through the crap that the average filmmaker would produce to get something worth watching. (I do not watch many theater movies, so maybe it's all crap now and the studios deserve to die)

      One problem with slashdot (and people in general) is that we really cannot seem to honestly appraise the damage that we cause when it flies in the face of our immediate desires. Society has address this problem with our moral code and the immediate shunning of the criminal element. However this doesn't not exist in the cyberworld, the anonymous nature allows people to regress back to the theives and pirates that we seem to be. Really almost everybody in the forum have pirated some piece of software/digital media and have a completly clear conscious. Yet a far fewer number could ever muster up the courage to steal this directly from a store.

      My main point is that both sides of this argument seems to ignore what the other side is losing. Inject some hair trigger politicians into this and you have reached a dangerous fork in the road where I feel we are screwed either way.

      ps. I use mostly OSS software because it gives me the libertity of using my computers without having to become a theif or pirate.

    2. Re:We are all thieves and pirates... by Wolfbone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well it's very sad that you have such a jaded opinion of your fellow /.er ;) Sure there are unscrupulous people and more to the point, always have been, so why was the music recording industry not destroyed years ago when cassette tapes made it easy to pirate music from other tapes or from the radio? How much courage does a tape to tape copy take? It's just as anonymous too.

      What the large companies are worried about is not the level of piracy in the west where it has never been an uncontrollable threat but in the 'developing' countries where piracy is rife due to different economic circumstances, ineffective laws, poor law enforcement and corruption. It is in these markets that they are really interested because they represent opportunities for phenomenal growth.

      I don't see why I should lose my rights to fair use of their products just because they find the enormity of their ambitions of global market domination difficult to administer. Throughout history, industries have grown and declined, responded well or poorly to changing circumstance and new technologies, adapted or died. They have often tried to use legislation to protect themselves when in trouble and have generally failed. Why should I feel sorry for them if their outmoded business models and cumbersome bureaucracy ill equips them for today's marketplace?

      Those companies stand to lose nothing whereas I and others like me stand to lose a very great deal by their actions. As for politicians, they should be protecting society by encouraging and if necessary enforcing freedom and diversity in the marketplace and in the public domain. Instead they pander to the desires of the richest lobbyist organizations at every turn. It doesn't help that the vast community of lawyers invariably benefit from floods of restrictive and protectionist legislation too.

      I share your fears but I think the real problem is not the theft of copyright material by the public from the corporations but the theft of democracy by the corporations from the people.

    3. Re:We are all thieves and pirates... by AYEq · · Score: 1

      I think that I agree with you.

      How much courage does a tape to tape copy take?

      you're right. Absolutley zero. The point is that in the analog copy process you have a definate loss in quality, not to mention the fact that large scale distribution of these shared copies was much more difficult. I think that is why compinies are taking digital piracy much more seriously now. The internet makes distribution of one copy to thousands of people almost trivial. That never used to be possible. The reason that I am jaded is because I myself have to fight my natural urge to download these songs. (in the good ol' napster days I for sure did this)

      I don't see why I should lose my rights to fair use of their products

      Exactly, this is what I fear. I just believe that it is our partially our communities fault for not doing a very good job of self regulation.

      I share your fears but I think the real problem is not the theft of copyright material by the public from the corporations but the theft of democracy by the corporations from the people.

      Right, I just believe that they are both problems. I'd even say that the stealing from corperations is assisting the corperations in gaining the moral ground to steal our democracy. The main thing is that they are selling to the public a story (that we are theives and pirates) that ,through our actions, is largely true.

    4. Re:We are all thieves and pirates... by Wolfbone · · Score: 1

      Your characterization of the denizens of our brave new cyber-world is persuasive, it probably is too easy to gain access to material to which one has no rights. I am convinced though that there are better ways of dealing with this situation than with scatter-gun legislation and intrusive, disabling technology of the DRM variety.

      In the U.K. for example, the BBC, once the only provider of terrestrial broadcast television, is funded by what is known as a T.V. licence. Everyone who uses a T.V. in the U.K. must buy a copy of said licence annually.

      So how do they ensure that a reasonable proportion of all T.V. users buy a license? They have snooper vans driving around the towns and cities finding out who is watching what programs on T.V. and checking this information against their database of license holders. Of course they don't even try to catch everyone, it would be too expensive but the fear of being caught is enough.

      Perhaps a simple modification of this idea could be used to the same effect for enforcement of the rights of publishers and producers of DVD movies. Few people if any in the U.K. have as yet taken to living in Faraday cages.

      Music and books are a knottier problem but it seems to me that a more direct relationship between artist and consumer is the way forward and I believe this has already begun to happen. It may not have been successful for the author Stephen King but it is early days and as far as I know, little experimentation has yet been done.

      The desire of big business to ensure that there are exactly zero unauthorised copies of their products in circulation and the way they are going about achieving this, is likely if satisfied to leave us all living in a bland, homogeneous, manufactured teen pop music and supermarket pot-boiler infested cultural desert.

      Well this is all very depressing. As if we didn't have enough to worry about with the software patent nightmare.

  36. General purpose CSS by yerricde · · Score: 3, Interesting

    the TRUTH is that there is no LEGITIMATE use of CSS on the first place

    What? You want to go back to table layout and <font>!?

    Somebody who went to school with me made a crypto module for the Mono platform based on the Skipjack cipher used in the Clipper chip. I wonder what it'd be like if DVD CCA's CSS were re-implemented as yet another general-purpose stream cipher for a popular platform's crypto interface. Interchangeable modules, each with a substantial non-infringing use, make it harder for the DMCA police to point a finger at a guilty party.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:General purpose CSS by ncc74656 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I wonder what it'd be like if DVD CCA's CSS were re-implemented as yet another general-purpose stream cipher for a popular platform's crypto interface.

      It might be an interesting academic exercise, but the weak encryption provided by CSS would be useless from a standpoint of securing your data. The only practical use for CSS as a general-purpose encryption/decryption unit would be the decoding of DVDs...and that's where the Media Mafia gets the inclination to bust your kneecaps instead of leaving you alone. For protecting your data, you'd rather use something like Blowfish or RSA.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
  37. Oh, please. by Selanit · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "all 'copyright' = greed . . . the TRUTH is that there is no LEGITIMATE use of CSS on the first place"
    Copyright is not greed. Copyright is a legal mechanism designed to encourage people to create new works of art and useful inventions. Its purpose is to get people to continue creating new works, by rewarding them for ones they've already made. This is supposed to better society.

    Copyright can be used in a greedy fashion. But kindly keep in mind that most open source and free software licenses, including the GPL, depend on copyright. Those works (the Linux kernel, GCC, Mozilla, libdvdcss, and thousands of others) have been given to the community by their authors without the expectation of monetary compensation. This is a non-greedy use of copyright.

    CSS (and Macrovision, and region coding) is used by the movie industry to attempt to control our movie-watching behavior by dictating where and when and how we can watch movies that we have paid for. That is a legitimate use in the eyes of the industry, though I'll agree that it has been misapplied.

    But those same techniques could be used in good ways; for example to protect your own privacy. Say you have a digital camera, and you make some risque films with your lover. You could then burn those to DVD and use CSS, Macrovision, and region coding to try and make sure that no-one but you and your lover are able to watch those videos. Mind, it probably wouldn't work very well -- the techniques are too well known and too easily broken. You'd be better off encoding it to DivX or Xvid and then encrypting the whole file with PGP.

    Anyway, my point is that copyright and DVD technologies are neutral: it's how they are used that makes them good or bad.
    1. Re:Oh, please. by TrekkieGod · · Score: 4, Insightful
      kindly keep in mind that most open source and free software licenses, including the GPL, depend on copyright.

      Well, kindly keep in mind that the reason the GPL is often referred to as "copyleft" is because there's no reason it should exist if it were not possible to copyright software. It's a manner to fight copyright using its own laws.

      Basically, these "licenses" depend on copyright because it exists, but open source would do very well without them if no other software was copyrighted.

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    2. Re:Oh, please. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Not true... If there were no copyright, then we'd be even worse off than we are now.

      The most benificial part of open source (IMO) is that the source is required to be made available to users, and that users can use the source however they choose. This requirement/right is enforced through the GPL, which is only possible because of copyright laws. Without copyright, any bozo could copy open software, (optionally) modify it, resell it, and not have to provide the source to the users. Copyright makes OSS necessary, but also possible.

      Copyright, as it stands, is far from perfect. But it really is better than nothing at all.

    3. Re:Oh, please. by Chris_Jefferson · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Well, kindly keep in mind that the reason the GPL is often referred to as "copyleft" is because there's no reason it should exist if it were not possible to copyright software. It's a manner to fight copyright using its own laws.

      I hear this all the time, and it's just not true. If copyright didn't exist, I could take someone else's source code, put it in my product, and then not release the source code to my program. BSD is much closer to "no copyright". The GPL is simply trying to force it's own alternative set of rules on everyone (different, and possibly better than "normal", but still a set of rules) MrJeff

      --
      Combination - fun iPhone puzzling
    4. Re:Oh, please. by GlassHeart · · Score: 3, Insightful
      the reason the GPL is often referred to as "copyleft" is because there's no reason it should exist if it were not possible to copyright software. It's a manner to fight copyright using its own laws.

      No, the GPL attempts to control what the recipient may or may not do with the source code. Specifically, it requires (not requests, requires) that you distribute modified source code if you distribute modified binaries. There is no legal basis (though there is of course an ethical one) for this requirement if not for copyright.

      Basically, these "licenses" depend on copyright because it exists, but open source would do very well without them if no other software was copyrighted.

      Without copyright, a company can take GPL code, modify it slightly, and actually sell your hard work simply because they can afford marketing. I'm not as sure as you are that the open source community would be just as vibrant.

    5. Re:Oh, please. by slittle · · Score: 1

      How would they sell it? There's no copyright, everyone can just makes copies for free. There's little incentive to keep the source closed in this case - you might as well let it go and let other people fix your bugs, since your only revenue stream is support services.

      --
      Opportunity knocks. Karma hunts you down.
    6. Re:Oh, please. by Rutulian · · Score: 1

      Yes, but then because there is no copyright, one person can buy the software and distribute it freely to his friends. The GPL is meant to protect the programmer from buying back his own work. A company doesn't really benefit from stealing source code if it can't sell the product it creates.

    7. Re:Oh, please. by Art+Tatum · · Score: 1
      Without copyright, a company can take GPL code, modify it slightly, and actually sell your hard work simply because they can afford marketing.

      That would be a fair trade. If we got rid of copyright tomorrow (or even returned to a reasonable copyright) I'd gladly give up GPL.

    8. Re:Oh, please. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If not for copyright, reverse-engineering and redistribution would mean proprietary software is no longer a problem.

    9. Re:Oh, please. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      all 'copyright' = greed --

      Copyright is a NOT "a legal mechanism designed to encourage people to create new works of art and useful inventions" -- NECESSITY is the mother of invention!!

      copyright is a legal mechanism to MAKE MONEY FROM art and inventions!!

      so don't argue, "selanit", I WAS RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE: COPYRIGHT=GREED, you pompus jerk!

    10. Re:Oh, please. by hesiod · · Score: 1

      > so don't argue [...] COPYRIGHT=GREED, you pompus jerk!

      Obviously you are using a well-reasoned and insightful argument. I just wish I could find it.

    11. Re:Oh, please. by GlassHeart · · Score: 1
      How would they sell it? There's no copyright, everyone can just makes copies for free.

      There are at least two viable business models in this case.

      Like Red Hat, you can sell support. Note that a big famous company selling support for free software can be more attractive to a client than the original author offering paid support.

      Like CheapBytes, you can sell convenience. Their costs are low (mainly consisting of downloading Linux distribution ISOs, and making CD masters), and they can't legally prevent people from making copies, yet they're still around.

      Either way, the original author will see none of the money.

  38. hey moron, are you fucking crazy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Interesting that the libdvdcss folks have never > had a bump with the law, but instead DeCSS
    > takes all the brunt even tho nobody uses it.

    Thanks to you, you stupid mother fucking leeching slashdot troll, folks that make libdvdcss will have to stop their project. You STUPID MORON. HOW STUPID ARE YOU!!

  39. Re:self destruction by zzottt · · Score: 1

    if your post didnt scare me, I would have found it very funny
    I think its time to look for my antidote... I helped an old lady cross the street today

  40. vlc and lidbvdcss by ajs318 · · Score: 1

    I tried installing vlc and libdvdcsss on my laptop {Packard Bell 4450 == rebadged NEC Versa E400. Celeron 1500, 128MB RAM, Debian 3.0r0}. It worked once, with a Region 2 disc. I tried a region 1 disc, which crashed the machine thoroughly enough to need an emergency power off. Now I keep getting the same effect with every DVD I have tried.

    Has anyone else experienced this? Do I need a newer version? Is there something I need to compile into my kernel? Or is my laptop's DVD drive bust? I hope not .....

    I have had no such trouble with vlc and libdvdcss on my Athlon, but I'm running Mandrake on that with a horribly bloated stock kernel and extra stuff running. With 2GHz of speed and 1GB of RAM, that matters less :-)

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    1. Re:vlc and lidbvdcss by DarkMan · · Score: 1

      Try a different player. That will identify and eliminate that aspect of the problem.

      I'd reccomend Ogle - it's just a DVD player, and thus has the advantage of specialisation on it's side. Other than that, the other two media players are mplayer and xine. Xine is in debian, so that's probably the best bet. Mplayer is available from an alternate source (deb http://marillat.free.fr/ stable main), but I've had difficulty with audio decoding. Still, it'll help with problem identification.

      Are you sure that it actually crashed the kernel? Or was it just X windows and input? I've had a couple of times that the only way I can unfreeze the system is to ssh in from another box, and do some kill -9 ing. Might be worht trying, if you can.

      See if you can get a DVD-ROM from somewhere. Various magazines occasionally carry a DVD with programs on the front cover, so see if you can read one of those. Note that you may need UDF filesystem in the kernel (it's a loadable module if your using stock debian kernels).

      Try instructing your player not to process the audio, and not to process the video. You may find that the problem is in the audio libraries, rather than video.

      Quick aside: A bloated kernel will not slow the system down to any significant degree. The only reason to compile your own with a distro is to reduce the memory requirements, or for a different version of the kernel (new drivers, or experimetal / alternate patches). There is a slight slowdown at startup, but the fast path is not corrupted by additional options (Usually. There's a couple of minor exceptions, but they barely have any effect).

      Beyond all that, I can't really help. But do try to narrow the problem down. You might also look from newer drive firmware - it sounds to me like the CSS firmware in the drive got a bit mangled, so a firmware update (even to the same version as it currently has) may help. May not, however - leave that as a last resort.

      Hope that helps.

    2. Re:vlc and lidbvdcss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try other players as well, like Xine, Ogle and (my favourite) MPlayer.

      I've played Region 1 discs (I'm in Region 4 with an underegionalised DVD-ROM drive) with no problem using MPlayer, since it utilises the DeCSSPlus algorithms...

      That said, do check that all your drivers are working okay - both video and audio.

    3. Re:vlc and lidbvdcss by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      At risk of this being obvious, how do I get Xine to read CSS'ed discs? The Debian package does not include this as standard. Do I need to get the source and compile it myself?

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    4. Re:vlc and lidbvdcss by DarkMan · · Score: 1

      there are plugins for xine which will handle the css decoding. http://debianlinux.net/captain_css.html has one, for example.

      You'll probably need to compile the plugin, but that's a small job.

  41. I say bring em on .... Re:Quiet! by leoaugust · · Score: 2, Interesting

    CAUTION - EXTREME DREAMING - Consume with care, and a little flight of fantasy.

    If I had to use the analogy of a battle with RIAA and MPAA, I would say bring 'em on, and let them open another front in the legal battle. Sue another company or another individual. Stretch them thin by forcing them to go for many many small and diverse legal cases - but never letting them bunch the many cases into a single class-action lawsuit (or, should I say, reverse class-action?). Inflict pain on them at their thousands points of legal cases, and drain their lawyers and their coffers. Then, we should all go in for the kill, and change their business model.

    It can all be done by employing simple mathematics in our arsenal.

    RIAA and MPAA get a small share of each CD/DVD sold, most probably, indirectly through membership dues being paid to it. The rest of it goes to the studios, middlemen,etc. ( more here for the mp3's)

    What if, as we draw the RIAA and MPAA to file thousands of civil cases (trying to avoid criminal cases), a part of us starts showing support to the defendents in these cases. Donate, not a small share, but ALL the price of the CD or DVD not bought from the members of RIAA and MPAA, for the defense in these cases. As our contribution, on a per person basis, will be at least 15 times (probably much more as I don't think RIAA and MPAA are getting dollar from every $15 disc sold) more in value than the crowd buying CD's and contributing to the RIAA's and MPAA's coffers, we just need to be 6.7% of the people in the music consumming community to take on the RIAA amd MPAA lawyers on an equal financial footing.

    And if more than 6.7 % of the music consuming community can be brought together we shall have more funds to beat the RIAA and MPAA and their members on their head. And, once we cross the threshold, there is no way to reverse this growing snowball heading in their direction. The logic being that they get a share of the CD or DVD's price to attack us, we array the "complete" price of the CD or DVD against them.

    Mathematics, luckily says that a share can never be bigger than the complete. So, the RIAA and MPAA are bound to be finished.

    DREAM OVER. Thanks for sharing the journey.

    What can we do next? Can we do something else ?

    --
    To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies ...
    1. Re:I say bring em on .... Re:Quiet! by tuba_dude · · Score: 1

      Interesting idea. Know anyone who can orginize that kind of effort? I'd be willing to help, but my mad PR skillz are about on par with a rock.

      --
      "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
    2. Re:I say bring em on .... Re:Quiet! by leoaugust · · Score: 1

      Getting someone to organize it is the problem, as you rightly identified.

      We still haven't reached the point where we could even attract support from such a small percentage of the people, but I am sure it will happen soon. We just need a few cases where the RIAA/MPAA will bully some personality that will catch the attention of the media and raise the hackles of our types, and we will respond.

      But, it would be helpful if such calculations and scenarios could be evaluated - so that when the time come all we have to do is the execution.

      The snowball is going to start rolling someday, though we need a good seed to get it all started.

      But thanks for stepping up ... If we could even get a list started of the people willing to help organize, it would be very helpful to organize support at a moment's notice ... I have been trying to build up a case on a discussion list at http://www.quicktopic.com and once I have collected some more background material, I will post it here to seek support, and also forward you a copy.

      --
      To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies ...
  42. Re:self destruction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This should have been modded Insightful, not Funny ... the U.S. is WELL on the way to doing just this sort of thing in ways that put even Hitler to shame. The new Patriot II Act will make it legal for secret arrests, imprisonment and EXECUTION of anyone including American citizens, that the executive claims is involved in terrorism. Hitler may have done these types of things but he NEVER dared to actually put those "rights" for himself into the law.

  43. Troll... ;-) by netfist · · Score: 1
    DISCLAIMER: The following is neither my opinion nor is it not my opinion. Just spicy food for thought.

    OK, why don't see the whole copyright/drm matter from a viewpoint of blatant democracy? There are more people interested in free^H^H^H^Hgratis entertainment/software than people interested in preserving the copyrights. Case closed.

    Minority protection? Yeah, like that ever was working as it was meant to work. OTOH, one could say that high finance is indeed a minority deserving special protection.

    And don't forget there is enough content to get us over the next 20 years. Note my emphasis on the word content, as its usage provokes exactly the attitude I am displaying/caricaturing here.

    I can only assert a moral high ground in people breaking copyrights which are mainly there for the profit of megacorps. If they declare war on their customers, the rules of total war apply: every loss of the enemy our gain. They played by those rules long enough it seems.

    What about forming a cult that voluntarily attends n concerts for every m CDs worth of music "pirated" (at n=formula(m) that makes artists break even)? ;-) BTW, I do support technical copy protection: Technology is a much fairer and pleasant fighting ground than law.

    1. Re:Troll... ;-) by ajs318 · · Score: 1
      BTW, I do support technical copy protection: Technology is a much fairer and pleasant fighting ground than law.
      Technical copyright protection is physically impossible in the same way that a perpetual motion machine is physically impossible. If the message can be perceived by a human being, then it can be recorded. That is a certainty and it is meaningless to pretend otherwise.

      I like your gigs-for-MP3s formula, though. I wouldn't begrudge a group the few pennies they get on the sale of those tracks on a CD I actually want to listen to ..... it's just that they don't seem to want my money directly.
      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  44. Public Domain Films by Catiline · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I own a copy of Fritz Lang's Metropolis on a DVD. The film footage of this movie is in the public domain (there was no original audio track). Because this film is CSS encoded, the DMCA makes it a crime for me to copy this film for others (doing so is an illegal violation of the copy protection).

    Could someone please explain to me what good I (as the end consumer) should see in this law? All I see right now is greedy media companies trying to loophole themselves eternal copyrights (or any effective analog) of a sort that independent creators are prevented from sharing that term of protection. They are using otherwise reasonable-sounding arguments -- such as "director's vision" in the case against CleanFlicks or the (now tired) complaint of piracy against Studio 321, and at one time I might have found myself agreeing with those complaints -- but when I realized that they are pushing a campaign for eternal control of media even to the destruction of fair use ("it's not a sale, it's a licensing -- laws reguarding sales do not apply"[link goes to a .PDF]) and that they refuse any middle ground or quid pro quo, those arguments lost all meaning with me. I fear that the DMCA may create a modern, digital stationer's guild, and the thought that the *AA may have exactly that in mind frightens me.

    1. Re:Public Domain Films by miu · · Score: 1
      They are using otherwise reasonable-sounding arguments -- such as "director's vision" in the case against CleanFlicks

      Slightly OT, but the case against CleanFlicks and the like is not even remotely reasonable sounding. Directors vision? Please. In the past parents have had children leave the room or cover their eyes for a single objectionable scene.

      --

      [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
    2. Re:Public Domain Films by greenrd · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Slightly OT, but the case against CleanFlicks and the like is not even remotely reasonable sounding. Directors vision? Please. In the past parents have had children leave the room or cover their eyes for a single objectionable scene.

      True, but I think it's about control - maybe bleeping out a few swear words is not very frightening in itself - after all, the networks do it all the time - but they don't want to see "original+patch" legally distinguished from "derivative work". That would have worrying implications.

      And not just for the MPAA. Richard Stallman certainly doesn't want to see "original + binary patch" legally distinguished from "derivative work"! If CleanFlicks et. al. win this case, those who are presently seen as "GPL violators" could try to use the same technique and argument to get around the GPL.

      I'd be interested to see how someone could argue that the GPL can extend to "binary patches", whereas the movie studios have no control over "DVD patches".

    3. Re:Public Domain Films by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work with Public Domain films and sell them on DVD. Once a film is in the Public Domain it (and all future copies of it) are STILL public domain. If the publishers have added content (i.e. Soundtrack or colorized a B&W film etc.) then they may claim a new copyrightable product based on previous work.

      Remember lawyers like to bark like a junk yard dog.

      Also... It costs the companies a few bucks to produce a DVD, even with Public Domain content. So they do have some financial interest in the product.

      Some PD dealers will be happy to put a movie on VHS for about $20. It's yours, you can do with it what you want. (www.fesfilms.com)

    4. Re:Public Domain Films by Catiline · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I'd be interested to see how someone could argue that the GPL can extend to "binary patches", whereas the movie studios have no control over "DVD patches".
      How about this argument: a executable patch is a permanent -- often irreversbile -- change, whereas CleanFlick's alterations file allows an alteration to the program without permanent change ... more akin to using dynamic linked libraries than actually patching the program file. Since, in both cases, there is a 'core' file (such as the Linux kernel), which is only altered "during performance", so to speak, alongside the 'optional' data file doing such runtime alterations (such as a binary, non-GPL module), I would say that we already have a clear example of how that point could be argued.
    5. Re:Public Domain Films by miu · · Score: 2, Insightful
      And not just for the MPAA. Richard Stallman certainly doesn't want to see "original + binary patch" legally distinguished from "derivative work"! If CleanFlicks et. al. win this case, those who are presently seen as "GPL violators" could try to use the same technique and argument to get around the GPL.

      It's pretty clear that a dvd patch is a dependant work. It has no meaning aside from the dvd for which it was created, but does that make it a derivative work? You would need the copyright holder's permission to publish an annotated version of their work, but not to publish a study guide or critical work about the original. In the same manner a dvd patch does not contain, alter, or reproduce the original work in any way. It merely makes comment, "skip this scene", "silence audio for 2 seconds here", and so on.

      I'd be interested to see how someone could argue that the GPL can extend to "binary patches", whereas the movie studios have no control over "DVD patches".

      Let's say someone created a "type and learn emacs" that required an original copy of emacs and ran a tutorial program that interacted with it and the user. I don't think that the hypothetical program would be subject to the GPL. A runtime linked library that ran in the same process as emacs and did the same thing probably would be subject to the GPL.

      --

      [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
    6. Re:Public Domain Films by 3.1415926535 · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter whether or not it's a derivative work (it clearly is, by the way). IIRC, CleanFlicks was only selling modified copies of the original work that were purchased separately, not selling new copies they produced themselves. This is perfecly in the clear under the Doctrine of First Sale.
      (IANAL)

    7. Re:Public Domain Films by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      It's a matter of distribution. If you had someone come in and create a binary-only patch for a piece of GPL'd software for your use only, and never distributed it to anyone else, not even RMS would argue against it. He might not like it but he'd be the first to admit that the GPL doesn't restrict use, only distribution, and you aren't distributing anything. The same with the CleanFlicks patch: they do the patch only for those who have already purchased the original movie, and they don't sell the patched version independent of a normally-purchased unaltered version. It's a fine distinction, but one that's held up in court before and one that stems directly from the first-sale doctrine.

      Critical difference between DVDs and GPL'd software that bears on this: the license terms prohibit you from making and distributing additional copies of a DVD, altered or otherwise, whereas the terms of the GPL explicitly guarantee the right to redistribute and prohibit you from limiting it. That makes a critical difference in cases where alterations for use by the owner of a copy are concerned.

    8. Re:Public Domain Films by dvdeug · · Score: 1

      I own a copy of Fritz Lang's Metropolis on a DVD. The film footage of this movie is in the public domain (there was no original audio track).

      Why would you think it's in the public domain? A movie made in 1927 in Germany is under copyright under American law (no renewal needed) and is also still under copyright in the EU and much of the rest of the world, if I'm not mistaken.

    9. Re:Public Domain Films by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      I own a copy of Fritz Lang's Metropolis on a DVD. The film footage of this movie is in the public domain

      The unfortunate legality is that what you have is copyrighted. It's not scheduled to expire until 2099.

      The material on the DVD is not identical to what was seen in theaters back at the start of the 20th century. It has been modified, both intentionally (cleanup & restoration) and inadvertently (analog-digital conversion effects). Thus, what you have is a "derivative work".

      The only way you can legally pass out Metropolis (or other movies whose copyright may have expired, like possibly the Superman shorts) is if you can dig up an original theater print, and then find the equipment to digitize it.

    10. Re:Public Domain Films by Catiline · · Score: 1
      Surprise! That's not the DVD I own.

      What I have is in a natty yellow case and is put out by a "Madacy Entertainment". Public domain (unrestored footage), and very poor video in general, but it was only $5.

    11. Re:Public Domain Films by Catiline · · Score: 1

      I think the film is in the public domain because for what other reason would there be so many varied distributors for just the US listed on IMDB?

    12. Re:Public Domain Films by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      Even if they don't advertise it as "restored" footage, it's still non-identical to the original material. Although no specific "artist" sat down and made changes, it's still been modified in some way. That makes it a derived work, and the copyright is effective from the date the format was converted. Only if Macday explicitly declared their DVD to be public domain are you allowed to duplicate it, even by pre-DMCA laws. (And if they'd wanted it to be PD, they wouldn't use CSS at all)

      Copying one VHS tape to another, for example, is the creation of a new copyrighted work, derived from the first one, but with a new expiration timer.

    13. Re:Public Domain Films by Catiline · · Score: 1
      So the only way for me to get a public domain book is to have a physical copy of it, and not even a digital conversion such as that done by Project Gutenburg will suffice?

      Nice troll. Too bad you are wrong, wrong wrong.

    14. Re:Public Domain Films by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      No, because Project Gutenberg intentionally gave you a public domain release. They were careful to insert no changes to the PD text they started from. If they had changed it at all, the new material would be copyright to them. (And most likely, if they do make a change, they'll willingly place the result under PD. But they're not obligated to)

      Good of you to bring them up, though. Visit their Copyright page and read towards the bottom of it. Notice that when someone wants to digitize a work for them, they tell you not only to select a book from before 1923, but also to make sure that the physical edition you have is prior to 1923 as well!

      They say "Remember: new editions or translations can get new copyrights, though the protection of the original edition is not extended."

      That's because if a new publication isn't 100% identical to the previous, it gets a new copyright.

      Too bad you are wrong, wrong wrong.

      Too bad that I'm right, right right. I wish I were wrong- it would be nice if PD works were easier to access- but a cursory glance at the law shows otherwise. Copyright law is excessively broad- it covers all sorts of things that can't reasonably be described as artistic or literary.

      By the Berne convention of international copyright law, any original work is protected. Even "works" as trivia as a picture of paint splotches or a recording of white noise. If you can "fix in some material form", it's automatically copyrighted. And of course, when someone converts a video from analog to digital, some amount of noise is added by your equipment.

      That random variation could itself be a protected "work". Unless the end-consumer (who wants to upload Metropolis to Kazaa, say) can verify that all of that conversion noise is removed from his encoding, then he can't distribute it without violating Macday's copyrights.

    15. Re:Public Domain Films by Catiline · · Score: 1
      By the Berne convention of international copyright law, any original work is protected. Even "works" as trivia as a picture of paint splotches or a recording of white noise. If you can "fix in some material form", it's automatically copyrighted. And of course, when someone converts a video from analog to digital, some amount of noise is added by your equipment. That random variation could itself be a protected "work".
      I call bullshit. (Not against your argument -- I now see where you are indeed [more] correct in your interpretation of the law -- but that is not what the law was meant to protect.) The Berne convention -- especially clauses 3 and 5 -- rankles with me no end.

      You know, I just realized why so many media companies are pushing for expirational media. If new releases -- a "director's cut" or "digitally restored" footage -- qualifies for copyright, then all the media companies must do is force an expiration on all of their products that is less than the protection, and then noone else is ever capable of distributing the work.

      Very clever. Very, very clever....

    16. Re:Public Domain Films by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      do is force an expiration on all of their products that is less than the protection, and then noone else is ever capable of distributing the work.

      They already do this. Chemical breakdown will probably render most DVDs unusable within 40-50 years. (There's no real way to predict this, of course, but degradation of CD-Roms has already been observed, and the movie companies who sell DVDs have no motivation to improve the longevity of the media).

      This page claims DVDs "usually last 70-100 years", which is ludicrous (what, they've got a time machine?). But someday copyright terms will probably be extended to at least 152 years, comfortably more than any optical media can be expected to last. The fact that the DMCA outlaws PD extraction of works whose copyright has expired will never be noticed, since expiration will be eliminated.

    17. Re:Public Domain Films by dvdeug · · Score: 1

      I think the film is in the public domain because for what other reason would there be so many varied distributors for just the US listed on IMDB?

      I don't know where you're looking at, as I only see one DVD available in the US. In any case, it's moot; the law is clear here - it was made in Germany in 1927, it's still under copyright. There's no legal question here.

    18. Re:Public Domain Films by Catiline · · Score: 1
      Not to me. I look and I see a list of distributors (DVD or VHS or whatever, doesn't matter) and question why this film is different from, say, The Matrix.

      The only way you're going to convince me that this film is not in the public domain is to show me a page that quotes chapter and verse of German copyright that proves this film is still under copyright.

  45. Legitimate use not the only issue by geekee · · Score: 1

    Using DeCSS is illegal simply because you are supposed to license the technology. Bypassing this licensing shows a blatant disregard for IP, and discourages innovation. It's amzing how people on slashdot ignore IP when convenient, but then are outraged when the GPL is violated. At least be consisent in your beliefs people.

    --
    Vote for Pedro
    1. Re:Legitimate use not the only issue by jcast · · Score: 1

      We're outraged when the GPL is violated because a violation of the GPL constitutes an attempt to impose some of that IP we're so fond of violating. Duh.

      --
      There are reasons why democracy does not work nearly as well as capitalism.
      -- David D. Friedman
    2. Re:Legitimate use not the only issue by DarkMan · · Score: 1

      It is consitant.

      Software patents are bad. See RTLinux for an example.

      Copyright is good. Note that we are dying to find out what code SCO claims was missaproriated, so that it can be removed, ending an unintentional copyright violation.

      IP is not a homogeneus entity. To consider it as such is to miss a very important point.

      Patents say that because I thought of it before you, you cannot use the idea without paying me.

      Copyright says that if you want to use this idea, either pay me for the right, or go away and do it yourself.

      The latter encourages competition. The former anhiliates it.

    3. Re:Legitimate use not the only issue by bbtom · · Score: 1

      No... Copyright says that this idea is being held TEMPORARILY by the author to protect their interests. Once they have had their chance to get their reward then the material drops in to the public domain.

      It is a holding bay for ideas that has been created for just long enough that the creator of the works gets a reward, not an absolute protection. Once the protection given to the author stops providing a social good, then the work can and should drop in to the Public Domain.

      I also agree with you that patents are pretty crap. But in most countries there is the protection that it is only for things that are not obvious. For example - nobody can patent the wheel, because there is prior art and it's obvious.

      I'm keen to see where the SCO case goes. If the code is, as you say, an accidental misappropriation, there should not really be any legal penalty for that - there should have to be proof of some intention to permanently deprive the code owners of their code. And in the case of a GNU project there is sufficient ease to withdraw distribution of it and remove the code.

      --
      catch (HumourFailureException e) { e.user.send("You, sir, are a humourless idiot."); }
  46. YHBT. YHL. HAND. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The CSS in DeCSS stands for 'content scrambling system' rather than the 'cascading style sheets' the parent troll is using it as. They're two completely different things.

    1. Re:YHBT. YHL. HAND. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Time to update my dictionary. Apparently subtle humor is now included under "troll"

  47. DeCSS is terrorism!!! by Gnulix · · Score: 1

    There are no lawful uses for DeCSS and by using it your are sponsoring terrorism.

    1. Re:DeCSS is terrorism!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but that as to be one of the most un-funny things I have seen.

  48. CSS as safe encryption by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 1

    I've used the encryption algorithm from CSS when I've needed a weak system that I'm sure won't get the export control people or the NSA pissed off at me. :-)

  49. the industry's paranoia? by bismarck2 · · Score: 1
    the industry's paranoia over DeCSS
    The only time I've ever even heard DeCSS even mentioned is from the angry anti-copyright crowd.

    I've worked in IT for MANY industries and have never heard this technology even mentioned; much less witnessed widespread paranoia.
    1. Re:the industry's paranoia? by jcast · · Score: 1

      Not IT's paranoia; the movie industry's paranoia.

      --
      There are reasons why democracy does not work nearly as well as capitalism.
      -- David D. Friedman
  50. Playground crypto by yerricde · · Score: 1

    the weak encryption provided by CSS would be useless from a standpoint of securing your data.

    That's exactly what they want you to think. The forms of crypto used by kids on the playground (monoalphabetic substitution ciphers on secret decoder rings, language games such as Pig Latin, etc.) are even weaker, but they do the job they were intended for. A 40-bit cipher such as CSS may prove useful in countries that ban private use of stronger crypto.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:Playground crypto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weak crypto doesn't get any harder to break in places where strong crypto is banned. CSS is useless, though certain repressive nondemocratic regimes like ours give legal weight to even useless crypto.

  51. YHMTP. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course, immediately after making the stylesheet one-liner, he returns to the crypto meaning and provides a substantial legitimate use subject to 1201(b).

  52. Re:self destruction by Uber+Banker · · Score: 1

    Wow. A very succinct blast into reality.

  53. all this bru-ha-ha about being persecuted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quit cying in your beers about being persecuted by bad law. Programmers are a minority and bad laws have targeted minorities for decades.

    My dick has uses other than practicing makin babies and I'm sure that pussies do too. But generally if some woman wants to do a little practicin for a few bucks in most parts of the world she faces an unbeleiveable thorny patchquilt of laws designed to control what she does with her body.

    Similarly, programmers must realize that they are now becomming subject to laws that create mental slavery juast as previously there have been laws that sexually enslaved women.

    Don't look for the cops for help... as one cop turned hooker explained: "She wanted an HONEST job".

    The legislation and litigation are all about power folks... their power over you and me.

  54. CSS by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    is a major impedment to OEM linux computers. DVD drives, while not really important to most consumers, are essential added value for an OEM. If the choice came down to a linux pc without dvd and a windows pc with, many consumers might be willing to shell out the extra cash (yes, even if they have a stand alone player).

    Linux's best edge in the OEM market is all that software that OEM's shell out money for (dvd players, office software, spam filters and pop up blockers, not to mention the OS) is free. Remove those costs and you improve profit margines nicely.

    While you can add the software yourself later, I'd guess most Walmart shoppers would have enough trouble just installing mplayer (the only linux dvd player with full deinterlacing support, that I know of anyway :) with css support, let alone using it effectively. Lindow's solution is pretty bad. You've got to reboot every time you play a dvd, and you lose the cost savings from using free software.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  55. Unskippable commercials? by Rob+Simpson · · Score: 1

    None of the DVDs I own have unskippable commercials. But then, the DVDs I buy are almost entirely anime plus some SF stuff (Red Dwarf, Babylon 5, etc.) I don't think the Princess Bride or Army of Darkness had any, though.

    Many of them do have the stupid FBI warning as unskippable (Excel's version of it is priceless, though - "Ilpalazzo is watching you!"). Nearly all of them stick the previews in the extras section, which I much prefer. Also, I've watched far more trailers by clicking on them in the extras section than at the start of a DVD, especially the ones with good theme songs. ;-)

  56. MOD PARENT UP by Zork+the+Almighty · · Score: 1

    You make an excellent point. Even if software were not copyrighted, individuals and companies could release binaries, and we would never see the code. Although the GPL more or less annuls copyrights, it is this idea of "hidden code" that is at the heart of the matter.

    --

    In Soviet America the banks rob you!
  57. Re:self destruction by Warped-Reality · · Score: 0, Troll

    that put even Hitler to shame.

    Yeah, look at the mass graves full of Jews we have in every city. They dug one in my front yard too!

    --
    This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
  58. Nothing Like Painting A Target On Your Forehead by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

    "The DVD CCA has never tried to reach the VideoLAN team about our development of the libdvdcss library," developer Sam Hocevar wrote in an e-mail. "

    Until now...

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  59. Copyrights and Copying... by crashnbur · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Copyright law only applies to what goes public. Anything used for private (meaning you and only you ever see it) is not copyright violation. In other words, using (for instance) SmartRipper to copy a DVD to your hard drive and, well, do whatever you want with it is perfectly legitimate as long as you do not try to sell, rent, lease, distribute, or otherwise try to display it to the public. This goes for all copyright material in the United States. See Lanham Act of 1976, aka the Copyright Act, aka Title 17.

    This tells us two things: (1) attempts to restrict our fair use of [fill in the blank] is evidence that some very powerful people don't understand copyright law; (2) some very powerful people are willing to sacrifice the freedom of those who don't break the law (legitimate gun owners, legitimate users of CD/DVD-copying software, etc.) in order to dissuade criminals.

    That's called taking the easy way out. Com'on, guys, we elect you to cushy jobs where you get paid $130,000+ (tax-free) so you can be creative and actually get stuff done for us!

  60. Legitimate != Legal by jcast · · Score: 1

    That's the point here---even if you oppose copying/redistributing DVDs, there are plenty of good reasons to use DeCSS. So, even if you think software for copying/redistributing DVDs should be illegal, DeCSS shouldn't.

    --
    There are reasons why democracy does not work nearly as well as capitalism.
    -- David D. Friedman
  61. I should clarify something small... by crashnbur · · Score: 1

    Showing copyright material to somewhat is perfectly legitimate. That is, for instance, showing or reading to someone a passage of an article or book, or inviting a couple of friends over to watch a movie. It's making a transmittable copy of something and sharing it that is criminal according to copyright law.

    1. Re:I should clarify something small... by crashnbur · · Score: 1

      Any unauthorized public display is also copyright infringement.

  62. Offtopic.. I just screwed up. by anubi · · Score: 1
    DAMM! No sooner than I had replied, the system responded that it undid the moderation I did to this forum. Although I only used two modpoints in this forum.. it still made a difference to those two posters I modded.

    Don't repeat my mistake and comment to a forum you've moderated. I wasn't thinking. Just because the system lets you do it does not mean there won't be a penalty for doing so.

    I won't do this again.

    Please don't waste your modpoints on this.. there are way too many deserving posters here.

    --
    "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

  63. No legal base please you forget the bsd case. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All novel did is remove a copyright description from a file with a copyright desription with a statement saying it could not be removed. Yep and they lost where FreeBSD came from. So far no one has been foolish to take GPL to court since this makes is very hard. Of course there are ways to steal GPL and a have a legal chance. They manly cover GPL people not puting the a min licence at the start of all there files. But I still would not like to be the first.

  64. The cat's out of the bag by retro128 · · Score: 1

    From the Washington Post article:

    "The DVD CCA has never tried to reach the VideoLAN team about our development of the libdvdcss library," developer Sam Hocevar wrote in an e-mail.

    3....2....1.....

    --
    -R
  65. Why throw it in the trash? by Art+Tatum · · Score: 2, Funny

    You should have sent the offending material back to the studio and requested a refund for the part you didn't want. :-)

  66. What about... by Pope+Raymond+Lama · · Score: 1

    ...being able to WATCH your DVD movies at all

    And I do not mean watching them on oure "pirated-from-Sco"
    GNU/Linux systems, but actually being able to watch them.

    It seens that the latest generation of DVD Drivers (the
    "legitimate", DeCSS free stuff), will simply not play any DVD
    if your PC has got a working TV Out video card.

    I saw this in an e-mail of a friend the other day, and just checked google for it: Here
    I can see it was not a thing with my friend computer.

    --
    -><- no .sig is good sig.
  67. Re:of course... by Tuxinatorium · · Score: 1

    that's wishy-washy. you could just make a jesus-like declaration that everyone is your "neighbor" in the server disclaimer.

  68. Re:of course... by Ost99 · · Score: 1

    Some Universities "allow" (= don't do anything about) filesharing within the university network, because some form of social relationship exists between all the students.

    - Ost

    --
    ---- Sig. gone.
  69. Questioning DVD Regioning and Macrovision? by grolschie · · Score: 1

    What do people think about DVD Regioning?

    If I live in a country for 5 years and buy DVD's while there, it is technically illegal to bring them to a country in another zone and change/hack the Region on my DVD player to play it years later. Of course this is to protect the rights of the companies who buy distribution rights for a region. In my country they only _enforce_ the prohibition in retail, and not overseas purchases.

    However, what about the company who owns the rights, but won't release the DVD for a year or more because they are re-running the movie at cinemas? I have seen this before, and the DVD is aavailable already in other countries.

    What about Macrovision? Doesn't that stop fair use rights to backup the movie (even if it is to lesser quality VHS)?

  70. Re:self destruction by bbtom · · Score: 1

    Wow... the Patriot Act II. It almost sounds like a Hollywood movie! "Bigger, Brasher, More Almost-Naked Women... It's the Patriot Act II."

    No, the thing Hitler didn't get was subtelty. You have to make these changes in a slow and controlled way. You can't just take a whole civilisation and lob them in death camps - you have to persuade them that it's for the good of the nation and patriotism and all that cock-n-bull first.

    Of course, wiping what mental capability they have is useful first, and that brings us back to Hollywood...

    --
    catch (HumourFailureException e) { e.user.send("You, sir, are a humourless idiot."); }
  71. Re:now if only... by joto · · Score: 1

    Why do you think it is necessary to convince the MPAA? They know full well that decss has legal uses. They just don't want it to exist, or be legal anymore, that's all!

  72. Looks like that post didn't know his WMP by CrystalFalcon · · Score: 1

    TV-Out doesn't work by default because Windows Media Player uses Video Overlay by default.

    When you turn this behavior off, the image replicates fine to the TV screen on the TV-Out port. Otherwise, you get the exact symptoms described in the post (everything is visible on the screen except for the media playback, which is just a black area).

  73. Re:Public Domain Films (OT!) by swordgeek · · Score: 1

    As a random aside, I saw Metropolis in the theatre last year. Now my wife and I own two rather different copies of it, that tell slightly different stories with differing quality and moods throughout. Neither of them (or both together) prepared us even remotely for the experience brought to us.

    We saw the single most complete version of the film (more complete than what most of Germany saw in 1927, in fact), painstakingly (and beautifully!) restored to a degree I didn't think was possible, with the original German intertitles. English translation was done live by a woman sitting in the theatre. The soundtrack was performed live on portable pipe organ, synthesiser, and theremin!

    It looks like this restored version is now available. Get it! Even better though, see it with a live organist if you can. It's an amazing experience.

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban