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Jaguar is Over

Steve Jobs announced the end of Jaguar, and the newness of Panther, today at his WWDC keynote address. Panther is to be available as a preview release now, and by the end of the year retail, for $129. Mac OS X 10.3 / Panther has 100 major new features, according to Jobs. Lower-level enhancements include NFS file locking, built-in X11, FreeBSD 5.0, IPsec-based VPN, and various SMB and Active Directory enhancements.

The Panther Finder is brand-new, with a new brushed metal appearance, and enhanced column view, with the items used most commonly in the far left column. Searching is "live" and a lot faster, and is more user-centric instead of computer-centric.

The Finder now has labels, and icons can resize with window resizing.

The iDisk now caches itself locally, so it can be used offline, and the user can copy to and from it more efficiently (with the real copies happening in the background).

A new feature called Expose allows minimizing into a smaller window, all open windows, to temporarily move everything out of the way, sort of like workspaces.

File Vault can encrypt a user directory and decrypt it "on the fly."

Faxing is now built-in, and available system-wide.

Pixlet is a new compression codec that does video compression without noticable artifacts, for 48 bits per pixel: at 960x540 and 24 fps, can be decoded on a 1GHz Power Mac.

Preview is significantly faster, with searching, and PS to PDF conversion.

Panther features fast user switching, a feature in Windows XP, allowing under-one-second (on the demo machine) switching between two different users.

FontBook is a new "pro" app for font management.

iChat AV is an update to iChat that does audio and video conferencing in addition to text, that works with any built-in or USB mic, and any DV video camera, connecting using only a user's screen name. It is going to beta today, and will be included in Panther, and will be sold for $29 to Jaguar users. Apple will sell iSight for $149, a small camera that does audio and video over FireWire.

Apple is preparing a new set of developer tools called XCode, which works with GCC 3.3, does distributed compiles (using available resources on the network), and has other cool stuff. It is fast, it has improved searching (like the Finder, and over entire projects), and it looks like an iApp (though it isn't metal). It removes the need to link; onnly link objects you need to launch. It starts compiling while you are editing, cutting the time you need to compile drastically. It can modify the program while it is running.

135 of 835 comments (clear)

  1. Had to say it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Jaguar is dead? Hmmm, I figured it would have nine lives.

    1. Re:Had to say it... by yroJJory · · Score: 4, Funny

      Jaguar had 10.2.6 lives.

      --
      Jory
    2. Re:Had to say it... by bludstone · · Score: 4, Funny

      It was a crappy system anyways. I dont know what Atari was thinking.

      Didnt have any worthwhile games anyways. :)

      --

      no .sig
  2. Jaguar is dead... by goldspider · · Score: 4, Funny
    ...but did Netcraft confirm it?

    I'm sorry, but someone had to say it!

    --
    "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    1. Re:Jaguar is dead... by Smitty825 · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, but the number of posts regarding Jaguar has died on the newsgroups...it's just a logical conclusion. (Wasn't Jaguar related to a *BSD anyway?) :-)

      --

      Doh!
  3. Damn, I need new hardware for first post! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Darn it! I was hoping to be able to buy a new 970-based PowerMac to be able to get first post faster!

  4. Had to be first, didn't you? by DAQ42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Dude, the keynote isn't even over yet, and you're posting to the site about the news. Geez, talk about jumping the gun...

    --
    Don't Ask Questions. I don't know the answers and even if I did I wouldn't tell you.
    1. Re:Had to be first, didn't you? by guido1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, the keynote isn't even over yet, and you're posting to the site about the news. Geez, talk about jumping the gun...

      So if they post stories too slowly... We get "This site is crap. I read about this at Wired/CNN/Blah 2 days/weeks/months ago!"

      But if they post news while it's happening, there are complaints about that too? /me ponders if people enjoy complaining too much.

    2. Re:Had to be first, didn't you? by mbourgon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hell, several sites are doing running updates. Updates every minute or so. I wish Slashdot was doing that, actually, as all the other sites are, um, "slashdotted".

      --
      "Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
  5. Ugh! Another $129 x 2 Machines! by dochood · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ugh!

    Another upgrade! I just bought Jaguar for one machine about two months ago!

    Got to do it, though.... too much cool stuff in Panther to just pass by.

    dochood

  6. FreeBSD 5.0 as a lower-level enhancement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Per above "Lower-level enhancements include NFS file locking, built-in X11, FreeBSD 5.0, " Now that is what I call an enhancement! Running an OS inside an OS, hummmm emulation?

    1. Re:FreeBSD 5.0 as a lower-level enhancement? by Jay+Cornwall · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I sincerely hope they didn't. FreeBSD 5.0 was not a production release, it was meant for early adopters only. 5.0 contained many serious bugs which have since been fixed in the 5.x tree (for example, the new DevFS system was still causing kernel panics in many core drivers at the time of release, one of which I fixed myself), and there are still more left to squash. I wonder what the reasoning behind this move was?

  7. WWDC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    WWDC? What's that? Wil Wheaton Dot Com?

  8. Very Impressive by ajiva · · Score: 5, Interesting

    OSX is definitly very, very impressive. With regular updates (every ~6-9months), Apple will be so far ahead before Longhorn comes out, that MS might actually have to try to compete! All I can say is that as a long time PC fan, way to go Apple

    1. Re:Very Impressive by SirSlud · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Service packs dont introduce the kind of features Apple's updates do.

      Service Packs are 99% bug fixes. Something that should have been fixed before you got the product.

      I'm out of the Apple loop these days, but surely Apple produces free patches between OS point releases?

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    2. Re:Very Impressive by RocketScientist · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yeah. Because, you know, Apple never puts out service packs. Let's see....I'm running OS X version 10.2.6. That'd be 6--count 'em--6 major upgrade points since release, plus security updates periodically. That averages out to one every couple of months. Windows 2000, on the other hand, is up to a whopping service pack 4 and it's been out for nearly 3 years. And it's probably needed more service packs than that. Last time I did an install of Win2k I spent more time downloading patches than I spent installing the OS. If they'd roll them into SP's more often it would take me less time to get boxes up and running.

      I'm more concerned on my MS boxes that MS only puts out one paid upgrade every 3-5 years. What's wrong with their R&D that it takes 3 to 5 years to put out an upgrade of any significance. I remember in the NT 3.5/3.51 days that MS said they'd be on an annual OS update schedule. That sure didn't last long.

  9. Let me be the first to say... by jocknerd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What about an upgrade price for Panther? I just spent $129 last fall for Jaguar.

    1. Re:Let me be the first to say... by Drakonian · · Score: 2, Informative

      They announced it will be $129 and ship later in the year. No word if it comes free with new G5s yet.

      --
      Random is the New Order.
    2. Re:Let me be the first to say... by fliplap · · Score: 2, Funny

      Assuming this is true it will also be the first Apple OS to have those features forcably removed by crackers

    3. Re:Let me be the first to say... by mrjohnson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is the upgrade price.

      Considering it's not possible to buy and Apple computer without X, how many people do you really think are doing new installs?

  10. This will be another solid update by dtolton · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft should (but won't) take a page from Apple's book. You can as a company, co-exist peacefully with the Open Source community. Apple has put themselves in a great position IMO for the future. Their releases add actual features, making people *want* to upgrade instead of forcing them to. It's a beautiful thing, because you can still use OS 10.0 if you want to, but they add so many features, bells, whistles and in general cool stuff - people really want to get the newest version of their software.

    Kudos to Apple for that.

    --

    Doug Tolton

    "The destruction of a value which is, will not bring value to that which isn't." -John Galt
    1. Re:This will be another solid update by Blue+Lozenge · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It's a beautiful thing, because you can still use OS 10.0 if you want to, but they add so many features, bells, whistles and in general cool stuff - people really want to get the newest version of their software.

      I wish it were that simple. If you want to run the latest applications, then no, you can't use OS 10.0. Most apps require 10.2, and almost all others require 10.1.

    2. Re:This will be another solid update by cenobita · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, it totally rules to essentially try and take credit for work you didn't do.

      While I think it's cool that Apple is integrating things from BSD into their software, I think the FreeBSD team should get a HUGE nod of appreciation, publically, for all their hard work over the years. Amongst the Mac people I know, they've developed a bit of a "well, now I know UNIX! h4rdc0r3!" sensibility about Mac OS, but they attribute that strength and flexibility to Apple, while completely ignoring the fact that FreeBSD was and is a very capable, powerful OS developed by dedicated volunteers; not some corporate entity.

      Kudos to Apple for successfully doing it, but I say give fair credit where it's due.

    3. Re:This will be another solid update by jlleblanc · · Score: 4, Informative
      What has apple given back to the free software community?

      Updates to the KHTML group for starters.

    4. Re:This will be another solid update by Nintendork · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "Their releases add actual features, making people *want* to upgrade instead of forcing them to."

      Where do you see Microsoft forcing people to upgrade??? Where the hell does this common troll spew come from? Microsoft recycles their code, refining it and rewriting various parts with each new release of Windows. They add an array of new features that prior versions didn't have to provide incentive for current computer owners to upgrade. Apple and every other software vendor out there does the same thing.

      Personally, I see Apple forcing their users to upgrade since they don't make it simple for developers to write their code once and have it run on all their system versions. Microsoft releases updates for their old products for several years after they're released to ensure compatability. Heck, they just stopped producing updates to Windows 95 a year or two ago. Do you see Apple providing updates for System 7.5 anymore?

      I should also mention that I prefer the macintosh operating system for my own personal use. Fortunately, I don't let that preference clout my judgement.

      -Lucas

    5. Re:This will be another solid update by Otter · · Score: 3, Informative
      For the zillionth time -- MacOS X is not FreeBSD with a new window manager and desktop theme. It is a separate operating system, derived from the original BSD. Only a subset of the system utilities comes from FreeBSD.

      I know you've read here over and over that OS X is FreeBSD. It isn't.

    6. Re:This will be another solid update by Zepalesque · · Score: 2, Informative

      >> Where do you see Microsoft forcing people to upgrade???

      How about their recent decision to release IE 7 only to Windows XP? Sounds like pretty hefty encouragement to me.

    7. Re:This will be another solid update by Drakonian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hmmm. I thought the whole point of open source was others should be able to incorporate your work into theirs. And now suddenly we are upset that a company is sucessfully doing it?

      --
      Random is the New Order.
    8. Re:This will be another solid update by BitGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The idea that Apple hasn't given BSD credit is absurd.

      Hell, they're getting sued for having the "Based on unix" graphic on their pages!

      They have regularly acknowledged ths situation ,and given back by releasing darwin.

      The idea that all they are doing is selling other peoples improvementis is also absurd (its a troll really).

      They developed a really nice new IO system and released it into darwin, for instance, along with a thousand other things.

      And they develop useful apps and sell a OS that has features that Linux and BSD aren't matching yet-- they make money from the value add, while contributing back to the base open source OS.

      ITs a win-win business model.

      You guys need to get over your bitterness that someone somewhere is selling software and start being realistic.

      --
      Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
    9. Re:This will be another solid update by prockcore · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Personally, I see Apple forcing their users to upgrade since they don't make it simple for developers to write their code once and have it run on all their system versions.

      Don't forget about all the software that requires 10.2, like Safari. Those of us who haven't spent the $130 for Jaguar can't run Safari... MS may be evil, but they never forced me to buy a new version of windows to get the latest web browser.

    10. Re:This will be another solid update by cenobita · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Look, i'm not bashing Apple and saying that they've *stolen* anything. I'm not debating their contributions, either, because they've made some damned good ones.

      However, there is a very large misconception among CERTAIN MAC USERS (not ALL) that Mac OS is FreeBSD and FreeBSD is Mac OS; obviously, we all know this to be false, and we know that Apple doesn't believe it either.

      That said, there is a vast difference between giving back to the community, and giving a nod of appreciation that goes beyond a "Based on UNIX" or "Based on FreeBSD" graphic.

      I'm personally excited to see what Apple's going to be coming out with, but the reactionary attitude some of their users display is disgusting. Just because i'm mentioning Apple in a context that doesn't include giving a virtual handjob to Steve Jobs doesn't mean i'm bashing them.

      Having used FreeBSD for a couple years, though, I just think it'd be a nice gesture to say "thanks". Nothing more, nothing less.

    11. Re:This will be another solid update by minus_273 · · Score: 2, Informative

      of course 10.1 is free if you have 10.0 thus there is no reason to use 10.1 still

      --
      The war with islam is a war on the beast
      The war on terror is a war for peace
    12. Re:This will be another solid update by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Do you see Apple providing updates for System 7.5 anymore?
      No, but do you see Microsoft hosting a copy of Windows 95 on their FTP site?
    13. Re:This will be another solid update by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Funny
      I can understand gushing about new technology, but this "Apple can do no wrong" fetish is starting to get weird.

      Umm, no actually Apple can do no wrong. You see it 's a feature of the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field, and since Apple own the patent on it then Microsoft can't copy it. The 'Dance Monkeyboy Dance' video was an example of what happens when they try to implement a similar technology without infringing any patents. As you can see, the Steve Ballmer Reality Distortion Field is not nearly as effective.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    14. Re:This will be another solid update by zojas · · Score: 2, Informative
      good point.

      I just finished porting lavaps to Mac OS X, and almost all the system calls I had to make to get the info about running processes were mach system calls. I only used one bsd system call (sysctl), around 6 mach calls I think.

    15. Re:This will be another solid update by shking · · Score: 2, Informative

      WTF? Speaking of Troll-spew...

      [Apple] don't make it simple for developers to write their code once and have it run on all their system versions

      Of course Apple makes it easy!

      Write a Carbon app instead of a Cocoa app and it will run on every MacOS from 8.1 thru X. If you want your app to run on every mac every made, you build a classic "fat binary".

      --
      -- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
    16. Re:This will be another solid update by Tack · · Score: 2, Informative
      My little iMac can encode MPEG4 video in realtime. Show me an x86 that can do that. Or, shut up about x86 performance.

      My x86 PC does that trivially. It's a 2-year-old Athlon 1400. I record TV realtime in mpeg4 (2500kbit) and mp3 (160kbit) with 30-40% CPU to spare.

      Jason.

    17. Re:This will be another solid update by teamhasnoi · · Score: 4, Funny
      ...they never forced me to buy a new version of windows to get the latest web browser.

      That's because their lastest web browser gives you the 'new' version of windows. Kind of like herpes: You can't get rid of it.

    18. Re:This will be another solid update by Drakonian · · Score: 4, Informative
      Go to the Mac OS X tab on Apple's website and tell me how quickly it takes you to find anything that mentions and links to any of the currently active BSD projects. Looking at the page as it's currently written, it seems as though it'd be pretty easy to neglect the efforts of those groups.

      OK, let's be realistic. Mac OS X is a LOT more than just BSD. But the core of it, Darwin, is more based on BSD than any other part. So, I'll go to the Darwin page.

      It mentions, right on this front page:

      Darwin integrates a number of technologies, most importantly Mach 3.0, operating-system services based on 4.4BSD (Berkeley Software Distribution), high-performance networking facilities, and support for multiple integrated file systems..

      And if you go to the Darwin FAQ page. Quote:

      The BSD community has been extremely supportive of Apple since we first approached NetBSD, FreeBSD, and others about doing a better job of sharing code. That happened even before we announced Darwin. Now we're pleased to have become an even more active participant in the community.

      They don't link to the page, but they acknowledge the projects. Apple would prefer if you used Mac OS X over those other operating systems, because they are a corporation and they make money if you do so. However, there is no denying that the part of Mac OS X that is most heavily based on *BSD (Darwin) acknowledges it.

      --
      Random is the New Order.
    19. Re:This will be another solid update by eganloo · · Score: 3, Informative

      MS may be evil, but they never forced me to buy a new version of windows to get the latest web browser.

      In case you haven't read month-old news, Microsoft announced it will no longer release standalone versions of Internet Explorer for old versions of Windows.

      Slashdot: IE6 SP1 Will Be Last Standalone Version

      If that is not forcing you "to buy a new version of Windows to get the latest web browser," then what is?

    20. Re:This will be another solid update by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Write a Carbon app instead of a Cocoa app and it will run on every MacOS from 8.1 thru X. If you want your app to run on every mac every made, you build a classic "fat binary".

      Yah, that's one solution, but then your users don't like you anymore because somehow they can tell when an app is Cocoa and when it's Carbon. I dunno why, but details of the APIs used are allowed to leak into the UI.

      The main problem that the original poster was referring to btw is the fact that MacOS has no real upgrade management. The way it works is this:

      On Windows, you have installers, which check your system for the components they need. Typical components are, ActiveX, DirectX, MDAC, Internet Explorer, Shell32 etc. If the version is too old, it is upgraded. This sometimes breaks things, but generally people prefer it to having apps require XP for instance.

      On Linux you have ELF (symbol) versioning. When you compile an app, you can control which set of libraries (and for glibc, symbols) it links against. Then you can install sideloaded libraries if the versions on the system are too old or two new, and glibc never breaks backwards compat so that's OK.

      Apple generally doesn't make large core upgrades available for free, so application authors have a problem. Not all their users will be on the latest version, so they have to cleanly disable code that needs the new features. Unfortunately, MachO wierdness means that isn't always as simple as dlopen()ing a library like what you'd do on Linux or Windows, so they use something called "weak references". Basically if a symbol is missing, when run instead of failing to start, the app will run but with the missing symbol set to NULL. If it's used, the app will crash, but you can check if it's NULL before use.

      Sounds great right? Well, it would be, but weak symbols were only introduced with 10.2, and API coverage was not complete. In fact, it wasn't even mostly complete. IIRC not even all of Cocoa was covered. So, in the absence of any easy way to cleanly fail features, and no way to upgrade the OS legally, apps end up having hard dependancies on the latest version of the OS.

      That fulfills Apples goal of getting more upgrade sales because suddenly all your apps need the latest version (or the developers must be careful to code things and compile on separate copies of the OS etc), but makes life harder for the user and developer. Hopefully they will get weak symbols sorted out soon. It's still lame compared to Windows because you have to switch off features, but at least it's an acceptable compromise.

    21. Re:This will be another solid update by MalleusEBHC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      However, there is a very large misconception among CERTAIN MAC USERS (not ALL) that Mac OS is FreeBSD and FreeBSD is Mac OS

      There is also a very large misconception among CERTAIN LINUX USERS that anybody who makes a single penny off software they write is a capitalist whore who should be shot and have their code repossessed by RMS. There is also a very large misconception among CERTAIN WINDOWS USERS that IE *is* the computer. Just because a very small portion of any group tends to be out there, it doesn't mean you should hold it against the whole.

      As somebody who is a Mac user and knows many other Mac users, from power users to my mother who only reads email and surfs the web, I can't say that a single one of them have this misconception you allege. Spread your FUD elsewhere please.

    22. Re:This will be another solid update by green+pizza · · Score: 2, Interesting

      MS may be evil, but they never forced me to buy a new version of windows to get the latest web browser.

      You will now. MSIE 6.0 SP1 was the last release for Win98/Me/2K. Future versions will require a full OS update.

      Also, there's nothing keeping you from running Firebird or Camino on your Mac.

    23. Re:This will be another solid update by arekusu · · Score: 2, Informative

      In my experience as an amateur Cocoa developer, it's pretty common that the feature I really need just plain wasn't available until version foo.

      For example, I need Open GL render-to-texture. The "documented" API wasn't available until 10.2.

      I need Open GL copy-from-framebuffer-to-rectangle-texture. This was there in 10.2, but wasn't accelerated on ATI cards until 10.2.5. For my application, unaccelerated == unavailable.

      So, there are very often cases where I am forced to just not run unless "system version >= foo"

      In other cases, there is functionality that would be much easier to get at if I have version foo.

      For example, I really want a disclosure triangle as a Cocoa control. It's not available as of 10.2.6. So do I roll my own, or require version foo?

  11. Berlin WWDC blog provides fresh experience by Damek · · Score: 4, Funny

    There's a blog from the Berlin conference at OnlineBlog, Guardian Online's Blog. It's kind of amusing (since I'm not there), as it seems a storm has knocked out the satellite feed, and they're watching the QuickTime stream, and alternately getting drunk...

  12. Predictive Compiling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Xcode:
    Completely new set of Developer Tools. Speedy: fast compiles using GCC 3.3, Finder UI built (over 100,000 lines of code) in 377 seconds on a Dual 1GHz G4. Distributed builds can speed building by using other machines on a network (built in 208 seconds with an extra machine and 96 seconds with four machines). Zero Link only links objects needed to launch. Predictive Compile literally starts compiling before the program is told to compile. Fix and Continue can make changes to apps while they are running. A single fix turnaround in Xcode takes about 3 seconds on average.

    [source: http://www.4osx.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1449 ]

    1. Re:Predictive Compiling by zulux · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A single fix turnaround in Xcode takes about 3 seconds on average.


      If this works - this may change the way people develope large C++ projects.

      I typically imbed a small parer into all of my large apps so I can quickly tweak the behavoiur of the app without a compile/link cycle.

      IF I can tweak things and compile/like at this speed - who cares?

      --

      Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.

    2. Re:Predictive Compiling by arkanes · · Score: 2, Informative

      MSVC doesn't do predictive compilation. I understand there's some third party tools you can use to fake it. Edit/Continue debugging is something else.

  13. Apple + PPC970 = True! by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Steve Jobs just confirmed at the WWDC Keynote that Apple systems with the PPC970 are a reality! No word yet on availability.

    1. Re:Apple + PPC970 = True! by Drakonian · · Score: 4, Informative
      Unconfirmed reports say: Shipping in August.

      3 Models:

      1.6GHz $1999

      1.8GHz $2399

      Dual 2GHz $2999

      --
      Random is the New Order.
    2. Re:Apple + PPC970 = True! by p0ppe · · Score: 2, Interesting
      --


      "Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."
    3. Re:Apple + PPC970 = True! by Uart · · Score: 2, Funny

      what the hel! I just paid > $2000 for a 12" Powerbook! I want a free G5 powerbook!!!!

      (Think Steve will go for that one?)

      --

      Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
  14. Re:Ugh! Another $129 x 2 Machines! by Roofus · · Score: 4, Informative

    If the Apple store was up right now, I'd point you to the "Family License" version that costs $199, and is good for up to 5 computers.

  15. Breaking news... by jared_hanson · · Score: 2, Informative

    The leak on the Apple store website was true, and Jobs just admitted it in the process of announcing the new G5. Check MacCentral for live updates on the keynote.

    --
    -- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
  16. It's TRUE !!!! by nether · · Score: 4, Interesting

    1.6 Ghz -- 800 Mhz FSB
    1.8 Ghz -- 900 Mhz FSB
    Dual 2.0 Ghz -- 1 Ghz FSB ...

    Straight from his Stevie-ness.

    1. Re:It's TRUE !!!! by Clock+Nova · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Tell that to gamers. Or anyone who wants a machine they can upgrade. The i and eMacs just don't cut it for anyone but grandma. I need something i can replace my $1499 Quicksilver tower with.

      I hope to god they're not pricing these machines this high simply to encourage people to buy iMacs.

      --
      There they were, sitting in the van with all those dials, and the cat was dead. -V. Marchetti, CIA
    2. Re:It's TRUE !!!! by TheCrazyFinn · · Score: 3, Informative

      Note that these all have Superdrives. Expect a Combodrive base model once demand drops a bit (September-ish I'd guess, maybe october), at ~$1600-1700 USD.

      Given the likely supply issues, Apple's going to try and lower demand initially (That's why the only SMP box is the 2GHz, and why they're all Superdrive models), and then quietly introduce cheaper, lower-spec models in a few months (They've done this a few times before, including the superdrive/combodrive trick)

      --
      "You've got an invalid haircut" -Warren Zevon - Life'll Kill Ya
    3. Re:It's TRUE !!!! by Dutchmaan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >

      Well if you're a gamer and price is an issue for you then wouldn't you be better off buying a PC? I never really considered the mac as a hardcore gamers machine.. not that it doesn't have the power for it... but there are other practical issues which makes a PC a better choice for *hardcore gamers* IMHO.

      Personally speaking, I rarely use my mac for games.. it was actually much more practical for me to build a PC for that...

      Choose the right tool for the job you want to do.

    4. Re:It's TRUE !!!! by Rand+Race · · Score: 2, Informative
      Get ye to the store. MDD G4s @1.25Ghz start at $1299 now. There's your low-end Powermac. No bitching that these aren't G5s, low end PCs ain't got Itaniums either.

      --
      Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
    5. Re:It's TRUE !!!! by afidel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seems pretty reasonable, just speced a 1.6Ghz Opteron, 512MB DDR ECC (PC2100), DVD-ROM, DVD-RW, GiG-E, 80GB Segate SATA drive, Audigy 2 OEM, Win XP Home, ~$2,000, and if the Apple comes with an FX it will have much better graphics (was using onboard because it was not going to be used for anything graphics intensive). Plus Velocity Engine is MUCH better than SSE2 for vector ops.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  17. Re:blowing your load early? by RestiffBard · · Score: 2, Informative

    No. Lets see, I've got Slashdot, MacNN and MacCentral all reloading every few minutes. And of course when Jobs is done I'll watch the quicktime stream. here

    --
    - /* dead coders leave no comments */
  18. Re:Simply Amazing by bahamat · · Score: 2, Funny

    Simply amazing, I love it. Can't wait until I can afford to buy a Mac (after the college bills stop happening).
    -> Sometimes, you just gotta break free from the shackles of proprietary code.


    What an odd mix, your post directly contradicts your sig. Rarely have I seen such blatant foolery.

  19. G5's announced by alfredo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Apple shows off the worlds fastest PC with three things: chip (G5), system, product. The G5 has some amazing properties: it's a 64-bit processor, runs up to 2GHz, and has a 1GHz front-side bus. It offers full SMP ("designed entirely for SMP"). The G5 has a the industry's highest bandwidth using an entirely new architecture. It has a 12 unit core with 2 FPUs.

    --
    photosMy Photostream
  20. What comes next after Jaguar and Panther... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 3, Funny

    OS X 10.4 = Bengal
    OS X 10.5 = Lion

    And then Apple will have to move to the non-feline NFL franchises. Names to look forward to are Titan, Giant, Jet, Raider, Buccanneer, Eagle, Falcon and Raven but Packer, Ram, 49er, Colt, Redskin and Seahawk don't sound too good.

    Something tells me that they won't ever be using Bill though.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
  21. Re:What no 970 by killmenow · · Score: 3, Funny

    I never knew Jobs suffered from Premature Specification!

  22. Brushed Metal Appearance by Talking+Goat · · Score: 5, Funny
    "The Panther Finder is brand-new, with a new brushed metal appearance..."
    Well, then it must be better! It looks like the future! Ooohh, shiny...

    --

    + G to tha Izzo, A to tha Tizee, Talking Giz-oat, Ya'll Bettah Feel Me... +
    1. Re:Brushed Metal Appearance by frankie · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Stupid textured windows. Am I really the only one who minds that Steve Jobs is violating his own freaking guidelines?
      This window style has been designed specifically for use byâ"and is therefore best suited toâ"applications that provide an interface for a digital peripheral, such as a camera, or an interface for managing data shared with digital peripherals, such as the Address Book application.
      This appearance may also be appropriate for applications that strive to re-create a familiar physical deviceâ"the Calculator application, for example. Avoid using the textured window appearance in applications or utilities that are unrelated to digital peripherals or to the data associated with these devices.
      Within an application, the textured window appearance should be limited to the primary application window.

      Consistent UI standards are one of the main reasons the Mac succeeded. The man should at least have the decency to change the HIG rather than ignore it.

  23. Ironic Sig by Nutcase · · Score: 3, Funny

    -> Sometimes, you just gotta break free from the shackles of proprietary code.

    And othertimes, apparently, you have to drop 2-3k on the most proprietary home computer available.

    1. Re:Ironic Sig by Golias · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Oh man are you stupid. All of those things are wonderful (and most are standard on PC's) but the key is that you can only install OS X on an Apple computer. The end. That is propietary.

      Before you call that person "stupid," I think somebody should point out that you clearly misunderstand what is commonly meant by "proprietary hardware."

      Years ago, when Apple was using NuBus and IBM was using Microchannel for their respective card expansion options, those were examples of proprietary hardware. You could only plug Microchannel cards into those IBMs, and you could not use them with any other PC (unless they licensed Microchannel from IBM.) Eventually, both the IBM PC division and the Apple designers came to their senses, and they switched to Intel's PCI design, which pretty much the rest of the home computer industry had already moved to.

      Proprietary hardware is troublesome, because it restricts the availability of expansion and replacement parts. You are either locked into the original vendor, or to the handful of hardware makers who have specific hardware license agreements with the company who invented the hardware platform in question. Over the years, a lot of companies (including Apple) have attempted proprietary solutions for memory, video, expansion cards, etc. They seldom succeed, unless they manage to get the rest of the industry to adopt it as a standard.

      Writing an OS that is specific to your company's computer architecture (such as OS X for the Macintosh or Solaris for Sun servers) is not an example of "proprietery hardware." It's an example of operating system software integration, and if vendor lock-in (for the complete system, not for replacement parts) doesn't scare you, it can be a very good thing.

      My G3 tower has been upgraded with a third-party IDE hard drive, a third-party G4 CPU, a third-party PCI SCSI card, a third-party Firewire CD-R drive, and lots of third-party memory. All of these parts were industry-standard items which could have been installed in almost any x86 box sold in the last few years, too (except for the CPU, which could be used on any open-firmware motherboard, but then you can't drop a P4 onto an Athlon board, either.) If Apple used proprietary hardware, as you claimed, none of this would have been possible. I would have had to purchace my CPU, HD, memory, SCSI card, and CD-R from Apple themselves.

      I mean think about what you are saying - if that is your criteria for being open then Microsoft has Apple beat.

      Microsoft, they have never, as far as I remember, sold any proprietary hardware at all. The only hardware they sell is usually stuff like re-branded HP mice and keyboards, using either PS/2 or USB.

      I'm not sure what your point about Microsoft is. Their software is not open, just as a lot of Apple's code is not open, but that doesn't really have anything to do with what we were talking about (proprietary hardware.)

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  24. Re:XCode by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Informative

    Will there be a titilating IDE to go with it?

    Yes, it has a predictive compiler; compiles as you write. The demoed compile was ~ 10x faster (they also did away with linking somehow).

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  25. Re:Proof Apple is still not enterprise ready... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Jaguar is not the OS, OS X is the OS. It is not being "killed off after a year," simply upgraded to a new version. No one is being forced to upgrade, nor will developers be forced to optimize for 10.3 (the minimum requirements for new software will probably continue to be 10.2, which was the first Really Stable release).

    Comparing actual improvements and new features to a bundle of bug fixes in an OS that didn't work in the first place is.. well.. missing the point.

    In any case, "enterprise" is clearly not Apple's target market, with the exception of graphics houses and the like. Corporate America can go right on crunching numbers in Excel on the gray boxes.

  26. Brushed Metal == ugh by Garthnak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Am I the only one who doesn't like the iTunes/Safari/etc. "Brushed Metal" look? And now they're doing it to the beautiful Finder? I can't imagine that I'm the only one who thinks it looks significantly less pretty than the simpler white look. The dark gray is just too intrusive and distracting, and it just doesn't LOOK as nice. I mean, here..

    http://www.studio2f.com/misc/images/1946sPanther -1 1-med.jpg

    Why is that better than this?:

    http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/finder.html

    I ask you. Am I alone here?

    --
    Liberty in Our Lifetime - http://www.freeme.org/
    1. Re:Brushed Metal == ugh by MoneyT · · Score: 2, Informative

      It may be possible to switch back in the preferences (themes) and there are plenty of themeing programs out there for OSX. It doesn't seem unreasonable to use one of them to return to your favorite style.

      --
      T Money
      World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
  27. Re:Ugh! Another $129 x 2 Machines! by dochood · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I just started using Macs, after using Windows and Linux for years...

    I'll pay the extra, because I don't have to screw around with it to get stuff to work the way I want, like I did Linux and Windows.

    Call it "dumb" if you like, but it works for me. I'm not "dumb", but I'll admit to be "cheap" (hoping for cheaper upgrade this time around...)

    dochood

  28. "Built for Mac OS X Jaguar" by eMartin · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...says the announcement for QuarkXPress 6 on Apple's front page.

    So Quark has fallen behind once again?

  29. Re:The nicest Unix front-end ever? by greenskyx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think step 2 would be "sell them to consumers" :P

  30. PPC 970 confirmed as G5 by Sri+Lumpa · · Score: 3, Funny


    As seen here (and soon on /.): http://www.rumortracker.com/framesets/macrumors/in dex.html

    # One more thing... some of you may have noticed on the net...there was a funny thing that happened last thursday... where specifications were posted.

    # 3 responses: 1) Can't be true 2) It's true 3) It's great marketing

    # "Premature specifications" - it was a mistake, and it's true.

    # We are delivering today - the Worlds Fastest Personal Computer.

    # The Chip - we turned to IBM several years ago.

    # We're calling it the G5. It is a 64-bit processor. The first first 64-bit desktop processor. Runs our existing 32-bit apps no problems.

    # fastest front sidebus - ever. designed for dual processor systems.

    # Massivly parallel. Up to 250 inflight instructions. -- can be processed at the same time. The G4 can do 16. Floating point "monster". Two fully symetric integer units. massive branch prediction logic.

    # This is a new generation architecture.

    Of course everybody expected it, heck, even the Apple WWDC pages used the term Velocity Engine (IBM-ism) instead of Altivec (Motorola-ism) like here: http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/tracks.html (in the last item "Hardware")

    Seeet!

    Now time to save some money and then spend it ;)

    Oh, what the heck, time to get more indebted :(

    Nooo, must resist temptation, DAMN YOU APPLE!!

    --
    "The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
  31. Re:Proof Apple is still not enterprise ready... by HeghmoH · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Please explain, in 300 words or less, how Apple is forcing the upgrade.

    --
    Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
  32. Re:XCode by Surak · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ahem. Works with GCC 3.3? That's GNU/XCode!

    -- Richard Stallman

  33. Aw, frickin' crud ... by WCityMike · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dear Mr. Jobs:

    Iâ(TM)m not saying I donâ(TM)t want to pay you guys when you upgrade the OS. You guys put a lot of features in every release, and your staff deserves to get paid for it. Panther looks pretty damn cool, for the most part. Just do me a favor. Reward me, even with a paltry amount, for being a customer who likes to keep his OS up-to-date.

    Knock $40 off the price and call it a $89 upgrade fee. Hell, even $30, and $99, would be somewhat palatable. Thatâ(TM)s really not that much to ask, considering the discounts one can find elsewhere on the OS after a few months.

    Itâ(TM)s a bit more palatable than the pure psychological âoeF--K YOUâ of making me buy the operating system over and over and over again with every new release.

    Longhorn users may be waiting until 2005 for their next release, but I doubt theyâ(TM)ll have spent $460 or $690 by that point on keeping their OS up to date.

    Sincerely,

    Quite Unpleased Customer Who's About to Get His Ass Handed to Him By Fellow Mac Loyalists for Even Daring to Question the Wielder of the Reality Distortion Field

    P.S. To all those who decide to flame instead of intelligently reply ... please use a flame more creative than "whiner." Obliged.

    1. Re:Aw, frickin' crud ... by jo42 · · Score: 4, Funny
      ...waving hand in Jedi manner...

      These aren't the Panther ISOs you where looking for...

    2. Re:Aw, frickin' crud ... by NaugaHunter · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dear QUCWAGHAHHBFMLEDQWRDF,

      Thank you for noting that our "guys" put a lot of features into this release. Thank you for also noting that our "staff" deserves to get paid for it. However, I'm feel I would be remiss if I didn't point out that we also have to pay the CD manufacturers, box manufacturers, and print houses. Not too mention that our "staff" is probably a good deal larger than you think, and are, as you can imagine, premium people all around.

      As to your suggested pricing structure, we will take you advice into consideration. Far be it for us to know the worth and cost of our work so well that an unsolicited suggestion won't completely turn us around.

      Also, I am sorry to hear you feel that I am "making" you buy the operating system "over and over and over again". I am sure you will notice that your computer will continue to function with the software you have already purchased and installed. If that is not the case, please contact Apple Support for assistance.

      It is not generally my comment on a competitor's product, but rumor has it Longhorn users will pay a heavy price indeed.

      Sincerely,
      Mr. Jobs

      --
      R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
  34. Re:Steve Jobs plan by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why do people constantly bitch (yes, bitch) when someone dares to charge for software that they can do without?

    The release od Panther doesn't make your copy of Jaguar any less useful - it doesn't detract from Jaguar's functionality, ease of use or anything else.

    If you like what Panther has to offer and can't live without it then buy it. If you don't think it has anything significant to offer or that it's poor value for money then don't. It's that simple.

    Nobody forced you to upgrade from OS 9 to OS X and nobody forced you to upgrade from OS X 10.0 to Jaguar. Similarly, nobody's got a gun to your head forcing you to fork over your cash for Panther.

    You don't expect free upgrades for life do you?

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
  35. Re:The nicest Unix front-end ever? by bobdotorg · · Score: 4, Funny

    1. Make pretty GUIs and lovely gadgets 2. ??? 3. Profit!!! Actually, it's a pretty damn good business plan.

    No No No....

    1. Make pretty GUIs and lovely gadgets

    2. Profit!!!

    3. There is no Step Three!!! There is no Step Three!!!

    I'm here at the Glendale Apple Store watching the Stevenote, and all I can say is, "Holy Crap. No, really. Holy crap."

    He's just about to do the spec test of the new G5 vs. Dell's bst offering. Again, Holy floating point performance Batman.

    --
    __ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
  36. Re:More pay for updates? by dubstop · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I agree with you. As a customer of theirs, I don't feel like I've been treated particularly well by them.

    In the last year, I've spent more than $200 in total on an OS upgrade, and a subscription to the email service that was free when I bought my Mac and signed up for it. I might just about be able to think that this was ok, if it weren't for the fact that Apple now seem to be refusing to release a firmware update for my 5-Gig iPod, despite (from what I hear) there being no reason for withholding it, other than to force me into buying a new one. I bought one of the first iPods to be sold in this country and now Apple, in order to milk more money out of me, is punishing me for being an early-adopter.

    I don't think that I'll be buying Panther, and I'm seriously considering not renewing my .mac subscription. Enough is enough.

  37. Re:Holy Crap, these G5s are going to be $$$ by xanasin · · Score: 4, Informative

    $1999 $2399 $2999

  38. Why they've gone to names by NaugaHunter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It seems to me that rather than being analagous to 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, etc. OS X's 10.1, 10.2, are more like System 7, System 8, System 9. Each version has entirely new features on top of entirely different underpinnings. Apple is using the cat names as an attempt to shed the 'They're charging for an upgrade!' stigma.

    Not that I'm looking forward to the price, mind you. However, they haven't (that I've seen) given a release date, and as I'm looking to buy a new computer it probably will work out for me. Even if I weren't, I don't think my graphite iMac would take it anyway. :(

    --
    R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
  39. Re:Only about half-way through keynote by Golias · · Score: 2, Informative
    So we haven't even gotten to the "There's one more thing ...."

    We have now. He admitted that the leaked dual-970 info was true.

    In other big news, Safari goes 1.0!!! (Available for download in a few hours.)

    --

    Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  40. Pricing by peachawat · · Score: 3, Informative

    3 models, all available in August :

    1.6 GHz, 256 MB, 80 GB $1999
    1.8 GHz, 512 MB, 160 GB $2399
    Dual 2.0 GHz, 512 MB, 160 GB $2999 (Wow!)

  41. G5's won't ship today by bobdotorg · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Photoshop guy just said, "We'll be releasing new software at about about the same time these machines ship."

    Well, my credit card, which has been quivering in my wallet's deepest darkest crevices all morning, is safe for now.

    --
    __ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
  42. Pay it only if it's worth it by siskbc · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Another upgrade! I just bought Jaguar for one machine about two months ago! Got to do it, though.... too much cool stuff in Panther to just pass by.

    Well, that's the thing. Is the stuff in Panther worth $129? If so, then there's nothing to complain about (except that maybe you didn't get your money's worth out of Jaguar, but that's just unfortunate timing).

    If it's not worth it, I'm sure Apple will support Jaguar for quite some time. As long as these (now semi-) annual upgrades aren't effectively mandatory, then I think it's a good thing - upgrade only when they've made significant changes to the things you like, but at least you get the option to upgrade a lot, unlike with Windows when real feature changes come once every 5 years.

    --

    -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

  43. Pic of iSight by kawaichan · · Score: 4, Informative
    --

    kawai
  44. Re:Holy Crap, these G5s are going to be $$$ by Juanvaldes · · Score: 2, Informative

    1.6Ghz = $2000
    1.8Ghz = $2400
    dual 2Ghz = $3000

  45. Re:The nicest Unix front-end ever? by jbr439 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Don't you mean "The nicest SCO OS front-end ever" ? :-)

  46. Intergrated X11!!!! by Jennifer+E.+Elaan · · Score: 4, Informative
    The one reason that I thought that OSX was too little when it was released was that it had no native support for X applications. With built in X11 support, this should make OSX a full-fledged *nix-compatible OS.

    This could very well pull some of the crowd who love UNIX workstations, especially with the specs on that new chip.

  47. Image of the new PowerMac G5 by kawaichan · · Score: 3, Informative
    --

    kawai
  48. Updates Anyone? by d3xt3r · · Score: 4, Insightful
    What does $129 buy you? OS, application and security updates until Apple EOL's the product. You're not just buying a OS, you're getting updates and support for the life of the product as well.

    For those who are counting, that's 5 minor releases of 10.2 since it was released and numerous security updates within 24-48 hours of the publishing of vulnerabilites.

    Oh, and it all just works.

    Nothing's free my friend. You can pay Red Hat $60/year or Apple $129. I think the Apple user experience is worth the extra $69 to support actual R&D, don't you?

    1. Re:Updates Anyone? by yakovlev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but Apple seems to EOL products in 12-18 months, as compared to 5 years for Microsoft (YES, Microsoft is the benchmark here.)

      If 10.1 were still a supported product then people wouldn't complain so much about the forced upgrades. They could still happily run 10.1 and be reasonably confident that their machine was secure and stable. Instead, people must pay $130 to upgrade to Jaguar if they want a secure OS.

      My Windows 98 machine at home STILL gets security updates from Microsoft. I would expect 10.1 to still be getting updates until at least 10.3 is released, but it hasn't had one since mid-2002.

    2. Re:Updates Anyone? by dswensen · · Score: 2, Funny

      What does $129 buy you? You're not just buying a OS, you're getting updates and support for the life of the product as well.

      Yeah, all eight months of it.

      "Introducing Bobcat!"

  49. Re:Yet another high cost update.... fun fun by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah, but it looks like Apple is releasing as many new features in one year as Windows gets in three.

  50. New G5 case by Yes · · Score: 2, Informative

    See it here

  51. Re:someone post a pic of the new mac? by shayborg · · Score: 3, Informative

    Look here for a couple pictures of the Mac as well as the iSight.

    -- shayborg

  52. Re:someone post a pic of the new mac? by Halo1 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Original (.mac site, bandwidth will be exceeded soon probably). Mirror on my machine. Another one (side view) here.

    --
    Donate free food here
  53. Another picure by p0ppe · · Score: 2, Informative
    --


    "Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."
  54. Re:Ugh! Another $129 x 2 Machines! by nate1138 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That family license is an awesome idea. I wish I could buy PC software that way (what little proprietary stuff I use, anyway). One purchase covers the whole fam. With multi-computer households becoming incresingly common, how long until this becomes standard?

    --
    Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
  55. Re:Proof Apple is still not enterprise ready... by dbrutus · · Score: 2, Informative

    Quick releases are the proof of significant innovation. If everything runs on 10.1 or 10.2 there's no need to upgrade in an enterprise situation unless the next version provides more benefit than the cost to switch. And with net booting, upgrades are considerably easier than walking around with a CD to each system.

  56. Re:Up to 2Ghz? by Gatton · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well I see that they've announced a 3Ghz model within 12 months so that answers that question.

  57. Strange enough... by singularity · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am writing this from the Apple Store in Shaumburg, IL. The strangest thing I have seen is that the Apple Store website is currently down. THis is depite the fact that the only addition they have made today that is currently selling is the new video camera (so far... They just got done releasing the new G5 computers).

    Maybe that is just to make sure no rumors start circulating. I am not sure.

    The keynote has been great so far.

    Seeing the dual Xeon stutter on things that the dual G5 is able to handle without sweating is great.

    iChat AV looks nice. It will work really well when combined with Rendevous.

    He just said that Safari is going 1.0 today.

    8GB of RAM supported? Serial ATA? USB 2.0? 1 GHZ frontside bus? I said these things were too fantastical to be real. Apparently I was wrong... Glad to be wrong for once.

    Keynote just ended, nothing new for sale.

    About 120 people here watching. The most amazing thing? I got told that I could not take pictures with my camera. Weird...

    --
    - (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
  58. Also had to say it... by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Funny

    Of course it's dead; it's based on *BSD.

  59. Optional? by yerricde · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If a completely optional $120 once a year scares you away

    Optional? Hardly. Watch as new versions of application programs for the Mac platform quickly drop support for anything but the latest version of Mac OS X. Heck, even Microsoft still requires that programs carrying the Windows XP Logo work on Windows 2000 and Windows ME.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  60. Re:someone post a pic of the new mac? by Halo1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Adding more pics to the parent dir.

    --
    Donate free food here
  61. Re:Your "duh" factor is fairly high by dbrutus · · Score: 2, Informative

    Apple does sell a contract for 3 years worth of updates. The store's currently down but I think it's a considerable savings if you're going to upgrade to each new release.

    One thing that Apple does that's kind of neat is that they eventually release old versions of their OS for free. If you have some ancient mac and need a copy of 7.5.3, you can just download it. Windows 95, otoh, isn't made available on those kinds of terms.

  62. Re:Apple stock down 2.14%! by mcwop · · Score: 2, Insightful

    NASDAQ is down 2.6% as of 3:09 eastern time, so it is not out of line with the general market. Apple has some nice new products, but it had better translaet to sales and profits.

    --

    "I don't think it's selfish, to eat defenseless shellfish." -NOFX

  63. If you subscribed, you'd know this!! by Pay+The+Fuck+Up! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    New G5 Power Macs "Fastest Desktop In The World"
    Desktops (Apple)
    Hardware
    Posted by pudge on 06-23-03 12:18
    from the want dept.
    In the hardware part of his keynote address at WWDC, Jobs officially introduced the G5-based computers previously leaked on the Apple store.

    See any serious problems with this story? Email our on-duty editor.

    The new G5 machines, with the IBM 970 processor, use the "world's first 64-bit desktop processor" (and the "fastest 64-bit processor ever") but run both 64-bit and 32-bit apps natively, and run up to 2GHz. The bus is 1GHz ("fastest ever") and it is designed for dual processing and full symmetric processing.

    Beyond the many numbers, the bottom line is that the new machines have a new architecture, and that the memory speed is now the bottleneck, not the processor or bandwidth speeds. So they can have up to 8GB of 128-bit DDR RAM, as it is efficient to keep data in memory. The memory bandwidth is one of the most talked-about features of the new architecture.

    USB 2.0 is now included, as are FireWire 400 and 800, Bluetooth, AirPort Extreme, and digital audio in and out. The 4x SuperDrive is now standard, and it can house up to 500GB of internal storage.

    For video, the GeForce FX5200 is standard on low-end models, Radeon 9600 Pro on high-end models.

    The case of the new machines is redesigned too, from the ground up, focusing on decreasing noise and heat. It is an aluminum enclosure, with ports for FireWire and USB on the front, and a door on the side to get into the box. It has four distinct "thermal zones" with computer-controlled cooling with its nine (yes, nine) independent fans. And it is much quieter than its predecessor.

    The G5 is 10 percent slower than the P4 and Xeon in SPEC int scores in single-proc units, but 20 percent faster in FPU scores, and the dual-proc G5 beats the dual-proc Xeon in all SPEC scores.

    The models are a single 1.6 GHz ($1999), single 1.8GHz ($2399), and dual 2GHz ($2999). They will ship in August. A 3GHz processor will be available from IBM in 12 months.

    Apple notes that recompiling apps for the 64-bit architecture is easy, and in some cases can be done in minutes.

    There was no word about the heavily anticipated redesign of the 15" PowerBooks.

  64. Re:What the hell? by Leomania · · Score: 2, Informative

    I haven't read anything thus far to indicate that the 32-bit systems are doing to go away immediately upon introduction of the G5-based systems. $2K for an entry-level 64-bit system isn't "out there" at all in my book. It will look pretty damned fast compared to many dual 32-bit systems, methinks.

    And I'm pretty shocked at $3K for the dual-cpu unit -- that's going to be one incredibly fast machine. I don't need it but I absolutely must have it (my Mac is a 8500 upgraded to within an inch of its life... a Pinto with a V8 stuffed in there).

    - Leo

    --
    You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
  65. Keynote Highlites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Steve Jobs takes the stage. [13:02 ET]
    We have so much great stuff for you today, we may need to take a break in the middle, says Jobs. [13:03 ET]
    3800 attend Keynote [13:04 ET]
    300,000 Airport Extremes have shipped. [13:06 ET]
    58 Apple retail stores: 17 million visitors so far. [13:06 ET]
    Jobs showing a rendered pic of the upcoming San Francisco Apple store. [13:06 ET]
    Later today Apple will ship its one millionth iPod. [13:08 ET]
    Apple has sold 5 million songs on its online music store. [13:08 ET]
    5 million Safari beta downloads since January. [13:10 ET]
    Safari 1.0 final will be available for download in a few hours. [13:10 ET]
    Apple also releasing Safari SDK for developers. [13:11 ET]
    Over 100 new features in Panther, the next major revision of Mac OS X. [13:12 ET]
    Mac OS X is now the most popular UNIX in the world, says Jobs. [13:13 ET]
    Panther to offer lots of UNIX features and Windows operability. [13:14 ET]
    Jobs says the old Finder was 'computer-centric' and Apple wants something 'user-centric' [13:15 ET]
    Panther features a one-column Finder, brushed metal Finder window, fast searching, an 'Action" button, the return of Labels, and New open and Save panels. [13:16 ET]
    Jobs demoes Panther. [13:17 ET]
    There is a new iChat 2 icon with a camera in the middle that Jobs has not mentioned yet. [13:17 ET]
    The searches appear tremendously fast in the new Finder. Jobs says it is "The best the world has ever seen." [13:18 ET]
    New .Mac to offer auto-syncing of files. [13:19 ET]
    Next up: "Expose" [13:20 ET]
    Expose is a new feature for organizing windows. [13:21 ET]
    Jobs says it makes it easier to find the window you are looking for. [13:22 ET]
    Expose shrinks all of the windows in order to display them all on the screen at once, so you can find what you are looking for easily. [13:23 ET]
    Users can assign any key on their keyboard (or assign screen corners) to perform this feature. Lots and ooohs and aaaahs from the audience. [13:23 ET]
    Expose uses Quartz Extreme. [13:25 ET]
    FileVault: secures a user's entire Home folder. [13:26 ET]
    It encrypts and decrypts on-the-fly. [13:26 ET]
    Mail to be optimized for Panther. [13:26 ET]
    The new Mail app will be much faster, offer Safari rendering built-in, allows you to manage your mail by threads, and Addresses are now 'Objects' [13:28 ET]
    Jobs demoes HTML emails. [13:28 ET]
    Jobs demoes thread view in Mail. [13:29 ET]
    IPSec-based VPN is built-in to Panther. [13:30 ET]
    Built-in fax in Panther -- every print panel has a fax button. [13:30 ET]
    'Pixlet' features a breakthrough new QuickTime codec with studio-grade quality -- 48 bits / pixel source data, no noticeable visual artifacts, no inter-frame compression. [13:31 ET]
    Jobs demoes Pixlet by showing a Finding Nemo trailer. [13:33 ET]
    Jobs shows Matrix Reloaded trailer. The quality is outstanding. [13:35 ET]
    Preview: Jobs talks about PDF. [13:35 ET]
    Apple has updated Preview to be the fastest PDF reader in the world. Jobs compares the render speed to Windows Acrobat 6 -- Acrobat gets trounced. [13:35 ET]
    By the way, Jobs has a small camera hooked up to the top of his Cinema display. No mention of it yet however... [13:37 ET]
    Scrolling a large PDF document is very fast in the new Preview. A search feature has also been added. [13:38 ET]
    Preview offers on-the-fly postscript to PDF conversion. [13:39 ET]
    Faster User Switching: there is now a menu in the corner to switch between multiple users on a machine. [13:40 ET]
    The Fast Switch in awesome - loud applause from the crowd. The Desktop literally spins around to the new one, kind of like Keynote. [13:40 ET]
    FontBook: handles professional font management. One button to install a new font. [13:42 ET]
    Offers a nice preview feature and instant searching. This is built into Panther. [13:42 ET]
    Jobs says he saved the best for last... iChat. [13:43 ET]
    25% of Apple customers use it routinely. [13:43

  66. Try using a Mac. by Llywelyn · · Score: 2, Informative

    10.1->10.2 was *not* a "minor" update by any stretch of the imagination, nor is 10.2->10.3 going to be a "minor" update (unless you call adding major features such as FileVault, an updated application suite, a font manager, iDisk syncing, a new appearance for the entire Finder, fast user switching, and a hundred other things "minor").

    10.0->10.1, OTOH, *was* free.

    --
    Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
  67. service packs by McDutchie · · Score: 5, Informative
    At least M$ does a few service packs for free before they ask for more money with a new OS.
    Er, Mac OS X 10.2 has had 6 of them so far, from 10.2.1 to 10.2.6. That's not counting the Developer Tools updates (and M$ certainly doesn't give a world-class developer environment away for free with the OS).
  68. Safari 1.0 now up for download. by phillymjs · · Score: 4, Informative

    Get it here.

    ~Philly

  69. No bitching about the price? by Cereal+Box · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I find it curious that many of you will bitch and moan about how expensive MS operating systems are but find Apple's pricing of OS X releases agreeable or complain very little. Looking at the list of "features", this basically looks like a $129 fixpack. Various app speedups, minor enhancements, and slight UI changes for a few apps is worth $129 and Windows is too expensive?

    Consider this: I can go out right now and buy a FULL, non-upgrade OEM copy of Windows XP for $99 (plus the negligible cost of a small piece of computer hardware to make the deal legit) to update a system with Windows 98 installed on it. That's $99 for what is a very serious operating system overhaul. Compare this to upgrading OS X 10.2 -> 10.3, which costs $129 for what amounts to a bunch of fixes (and an update to the FreeBSD 5.0 core -- that's relatively major, but not as major as Win9X to NT).

    And Windows is too expensive...?

  70. Re:Apple stock down 2.14%! by weave · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well, when I heard that they were giving away over 3,000 iSights at $149 each to all in attendence, my first thought was that Apple shareholders were going to have a stroke. Coincidence?! :)

  71. Re:is mac os like sgi's irix? by shking · · Score: 2, Informative

    The iApps (iPhoto, iMovie, etc.) are scriptable using Applescript. For instance, there are scripts out there that hook iCal up with iTunes, so that iCal causes iTunes to start playing music at a given point in time.

    You can run Applescripts from the command line

    Applescript is anologous to VBA in the Windoze world, except that it is implemented at the OS level, rather than in each application. There's an API for programmers to hook up the Applescript engine to their code. AppleScript Studio, part of the developer tools, lets you create programs with a native Mac OS X interface, using AppleScript (instead of C++, Objective C or Java).

    --
    -- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
  72. Apple's ubiquitous humor.... by Vengie · · Score: 4, Funny
    From the panther preview section....


    Unix-lover Heaven
    Panther will include a final X11 client for Unix-based applications, improved NFS/UFS, FreeBSD 5 innovations as well as support for popular Linux APIs, IPv6 and other important acronyms.


    "Other important acronyms" hehehe ;)
    --
    When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
  73. Why Switch? by TheAvatar666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Honestly, I see no point in switching. Who's gonna pay 129 dollars just for a brushed-metal finder? No performance enhancements, no nothing. Those improvements in the network are are nice, but I still think it's worthless, specially because most people don't care whether NFS lock works or not. I know people are gonna bash me like crazy because of this (curse u apple lovers :p), but u guys are /.ers not people who are alienated about computers, as most people in the world are.

  74. HA HA sense of humour at apple by panck · · Score: 5, Funny
    On the Panther page look at the right side column on the bottom under "System-wide enhancements".

    Unix-lover Heaven. Panther will include a final X11 client for Unix-based applications, improved NFS/UFS, FreeBSD 5 innovations as well as support for popular Linux APIs, IPv6 and other important acronyms.

    Well, that belted a laugh out of me.

    --
    "What thou shalt not, I shalt did!" -Bart Simpson
  75. Re:Upgrade Pricing... by burnetd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well Jags been out for what 14 months now, and everyone has known Panther was coming for ages, so why did you buy Jaguar now ?

  76. "Because we can" by Shenkerian · · Score: 4, Funny
    That's not all.. On the Fast User Switching page, their final point is this:

    Because we can
    Mac OS X animates transitions from one user to another. The current desktop becomes a texture placed on a 3D cube that rotates out of view while the incoming account desktop rotates into view on another side of the cube.

    I'm glad they decided to flaunt the Quartz engine this way. And they're really doing it just because it's cool.

    --
    You tell me how "whilst" differs from "while," and I'll stop calling you a pretentious jackass.
  77. Re:XP catch-up release (flamesuit on...) by goon+america · · Score: 2, Informative
    You also can't block images coming from a particular server - a feature I use a lot in Firebird,

    sudo ipfw add deny ip from any to host_name

  78. Safari 1.0 still has an annoying bug... by justMichael · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When are they going to fix the fact that it takes forever for it to handle redirects??

    Friggin annoying.

  79. Re:XP catch-up release (flamesuit on...) by GlassHeart · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I hate to say this, but it looks like a bit of a Windows XP-catch up release to me.

    There's feature as it appears on a bullet list, and there's feature that's worth using. Apple was not the first to come up with an portable MP3 player, or probably even a hard disk based MP3 player. Yet the iPod is among the best portable MP3 players in the market, if not the best. iTunes was not the first MP3 player and organizer. Final Cut Pro was not the first video editing software. MacOS X is not the first Unix descendant to try to make it on the desktop.

    I suggest a little benefit of the doubt for a company that has been playing a brilliant game of catch up for the past couple of years.

  80. The lesser of evils.. by digital+photo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Being a recent convert to the Mac/Apple fold, I find I have both concerns about these upgrade cycles and at the same time, I feel they are justified.

    Let's take a look and see what we are comparing so we aren't comparing Apples and well.. you know.

    In my mind, there are really only three platforms out there: Apple, Windows, and *nix(Linux,BSD,Solaris,etc).

    Let's look at the "cost" of upgrades for each of these, shall we?

    With Apple, it seems you pay $129 for each major revision change. People who were using 10.0-10.1 were charged to go to 10.2 and now it seems that 10.2 users(myself included) will be charged to go to 10.3.

    My experience with my iBook running 10.2.6 has been about as damn near perfect as I have ever experienced on any platform with a user interface to match. Sure I paid top dollar for a laptop which won't beat my fellow co-workers' 1-2Ghz laptops anytime soon, but I also won't be cursing at my laptop for wiping out my data either. That has got to be worth something.

    With Linux, we get free kernel and OS upgrades. However, each time I went through the upgrade process, I had to literally double check every software package and perform countless recompiles to get things right again. On average, with every major kernel release I have had to spend the better part of an afternoon performing "installation" exercises. With every minor release, I have had to recompile the kernel. I didn't pay cash on the barrel for the upgrade, but I paid for it in time.

    With Windows, it has always been a struggle. People say *nix is unfriendly. I say it is Windows which is unfriendliest of all. You have to pay about $149 for an upgrade to the OS or in my case, $349 for the "full" version of the software. To top it off, if I have any aspirations of a marginally stable system, I have to perform a clean install and not just an upgrade on top of my existing system. This results in at least a full day of work on my part in re-installing the OS and all of the applications on the system. I pay in time and money.

    Now. With that in mind, I'm looking at the prospect of paying $129 for the 10.3 version of Mac OSX:Panther for my iBook which will run better with other systems and be even friendlier.

    I think I can live with that.

  81. mpeg4 is out; pixlet is in by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2, Funny

    I wasn't at MacWorld, but I did watch the speech over my 56K line. I was most impressed with the pixlet component of the presentation-- absolutely beautiful.

  82. Excited about Jaguar by clf8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not suprising, but most the comments here are about either the new G5s or the cost of the upgrade. But, if you look through the features, IMHO there's some pretty cool stuff. Sure, I've bought all the updates. Sure, I'm annoyed that I gots to buy another (or time my system upgrade just right). Sure, I'm a complete Mac fan. But in looking at 10.3, I said wow more than a couple of times.

    1. Expose - This actually looks really useful. You can never have too much screen estate, and although I might prefer a virtual screen functionality, maybe I won't care. This easily lets you not only sort through the clutter for a single app or all apps, it keeps everything the way it way (just with the new window on top). No more minimizing then having to bring back to the top. Right now, I'm running Win2k and even with my Taskbar at three levels, I've got so many terminals up it's disgusting. I'm pretty sure this is a completely new concept, but I'm sure someone will tell me otherwise. I can prolly still patent it tho....

    2. Multi-User- Ok, this isn't huge. X has allowed Unix to do it for years, and XP beat OSX to the punch. But, in classic Apple style, they map the various users onto a cube and rotate that to go between users "because they can." Waste of proc power? No, cuz it's Quartz and the graphics card is handling all that. Useful? No. Supacool, I think so. Hopefully you're not limited to 6 multi-user logins though.

    3. File Vault - 128bit automatic encryption/decryption of your home directory. Of course, I'm sure this slows the system and I would probably turn it off, but it's certainly viable for enterprise users. Until you lose the key, of course.

    4. Font Book - I'm not a graphics guy, I'm a low level embedded software freak. But, I hear those graphics people have a lot of fonts and for some reason, have all sorts of finding the one they want. Well, here's Font Management built right into OSX.

    5. X11 - Frankly, this is a no brainer. Any argument that the Mac doesn't have that many apps for it have been shot dead. At least when it's the Linux people saying it. Sure, Windows still has more apps, and more than one way to do it, but does it matter that there are 10 word processors for Windows when all anyone uses is Office?

    Throw in an increase in speed speed speed, better windows (and the rest of the world) connectivity, a rewritten (Snappy!) Finder, Quicktime, and who knows what else under the hood and you've got a great update. Sure, a lot of software will have to be tweaked to work with the update, but OSX is still maturing. APIs will stabilize soon and be solid, but Apple is adding functionality on top of all this.

  83. Re:Ugh! Another $129 x 2 Machines! by MacGod · · Score: 2, Interesting
    That family license is an awesome idea. I wish I could buy PC software that way (what little proprietary stuff I use, anyway). One purchase covers the whole fam. With multi-computer households becoming incresingly common, how long until this becomes standard?

    Sadly, probably a while yet. Apple's family license basically works on the honour system. There are no serial numbers or anything like that. It's to keep honest people honest, just like the quasi-DRM on the Apple Music Store.

    Sadly, though, very few software companies are willing to put that faith in people.

    --
    "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein