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Jaguar is Over
The Panther Finder is brand-new, with a new brushed metal appearance, and enhanced column view, with the items used most commonly in the far left column. Searching is "live" and a lot faster, and is more user-centric instead of computer-centric.
The Finder now has labels, and icons can resize with window resizing.
The iDisk now caches itself locally, so it can be used offline, and the user can copy to and from it more efficiently (with the real copies happening in the background).
A new feature called Expose allows minimizing into a smaller window, all open windows, to temporarily move everything out of the way, sort of like workspaces.
File Vault can encrypt a user directory and decrypt it "on the fly."
Faxing is now built-in, and available system-wide.
Pixlet is a new compression codec that does video compression without noticable artifacts, for 48 bits per pixel: at 960x540 and 24 fps, can be decoded on a 1GHz Power Mac.
Preview is significantly faster, with searching, and PS to PDF conversion.
Panther features fast user switching, a feature in Windows XP, allowing under-one-second (on the demo machine) switching between two different users.
FontBook is a new "pro" app for font management.
iChat AV is an update to iChat that does audio and video conferencing in addition to text, that works with any built-in or USB mic, and any DV video camera, connecting using only a user's screen name. It is going to beta today, and will be included in Panther, and will be sold for $29 to Jaguar users. Apple will sell iSight for $149, a small camera that does audio and video over FireWire.
Apple is preparing a new set of developer tools called XCode, which works with GCC 3.3, does distributed compiles (using available resources on the network), and has other cool stuff. It is fast, it has improved searching (like the Finder, and over entire projects), and it looks like an iApp (though it isn't metal). It removes the need to link; onnly link objects you need to launch. It starts compiling while you are editing, cutting the time you need to compile drastically. It can modify the program while it is running.
Jaguar is dead? Hmmm, I figured it would have nine lives.
I was really hoping for the 970. Well, at least we get a new version of OSX. And it has a cool new name too.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
I'm sorry, but someone had to say it!
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
1. Make pretty GUIs and lovely gadgets 2. ??? 3. Profit!!! Actually, it's a pretty damn good business plan.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Darn it! I was hoping to be able to buy a new 970-based PowerMac to be able to get first post faster!
So we haven't even gotten to the "There's one more thing ...."
Dude, the keynote isn't even over yet, and you're posting to the site about the news. Geez, talk about jumping the gun...
Don't Ask Questions. I don't know the answers and even if I did I wouldn't tell you.
Ugh!
Another upgrade! I just bought Jaguar for one machine about two months ago!
Got to do it, though.... too much cool stuff in Panther to just pass by.
dochood
Per above "Lower-level enhancements include NFS file locking, built-in X11, FreeBSD 5.0, " Now that is what I call an enhancement! Running an OS inside an OS, hummmm emulation?
Jaguar is renamed to Panther Full Speed, Panther is now called Panther High Speed - It was coded by Incas, what do you expect.
Ok, that was quite bad.
Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
Will there be a titilating IDE to go with it? Hmmm, that's good squishy!
--------
Free your mind.
WWDC? What's that? Wil Wheaton Dot Com?
"We are busy updating our store and will be back within the hour."
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
OSX is definitly very, very impressive. With regular updates (every ~6-9months), Apple will be so far ahead before Longhorn comes out, that MS might actually have to try to compete! All I can say is that as a long time PC fan, way to go Apple
What about an upgrade price for Panther? I just spent $129 last fall for Jaguar.
Damn big businesses and their $0.99 "marketing prices", don't even notice open projects.
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
Microsoft should (but won't) take a page from Apple's book. You can as a company, co-exist peacefully with the Open Source community. Apple has put themselves in a great position IMO for the future. Their releases add actual features, making people *want* to upgrade instead of forcing them to. It's a beautiful thing, because you can still use OS 10.0 if you want to, but they add so many features, bells, whistles and in general cool stuff - people really want to get the newest version of their software.
Kudos to Apple for that.
Doug Tolton
"The destruction of a value which is, will not bring value to that which isn't." -John Galt
He's announcing them right now. If the submitter hadn't blew his load, it would have been one big story.
10 add new nifties to OS
20 call it an upgrade
30 Charge 130 bucks for it
40 PROFIT!!
50 goto 10
Not to troll but these upgrades always remind me of service packs for windows. And they seem to come out just as often.
Hold up, wait a minute, let me put some pimpin in it
There's a blog from the Berlin conference at OnlineBlog, Guardian Online's Blog. It's kind of amusing (since I'm not there), as it seems a storm has knocked out the satellite feed, and they're watching the QuickTime stream, and alternately getting drunk...
Xcode:
9 ]
Completely new set of Developer Tools. Speedy: fast compiles using GCC 3.3, Finder UI built (over 100,000 lines of code) in 377 seconds on a Dual 1GHz G4. Distributed builds can speed building by using other machines on a network (built in 208 seconds with an extra machine and 96 seconds with four machines). Zero Link only links objects needed to launch. Predictive Compile literally starts compiling before the program is told to compile. Fix and Continue can make changes to apps while they are running. A single fix turnaround in Xcode takes about 3 seconds on average.
[source: http://www.4osx.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=144
The apple store is being updated, i think were about an hour away from having our collective socks blown off.
i am geek, hear me roar.
Wooo-hoooo! The rumours were true!
*gets napkin*
:(
too late
- tristan
Steve Jobs just confirmed at the WWDC Keynote that Apple systems with the PPC970 are a reality! No word yet on availability.
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Jaguar is based on freebsd, jaguar is dead, this is a sure sign that bsd death is imminent.
I clicked the link in your sig, but I'm telling you, it really really had me on the goatse defensive fingers pre-positioned on alt+f4
If the Apple store was up right now, I'd point you to the "Family License" version that costs $199, and is good for up to 5 computers.
The leak on the Apple store website was true, and Jobs just admitted it in the process of announcing the new G5. Check MacCentral for live updates on the keynote.
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
You can read the timeline here. It's an IBM chip.
m.kelley
life is like a freeway, if you don't look you could miss it.
They have been announcec.
64 bit, will run old 32 bit apps
1.6 Ghz -- 800 Mhz FSB ...
1.8 Ghz -- 900 Mhz FSB
Dual 2.0 Ghz -- 1 Ghz FSB
Straight from his Stevie-ness.
From the Apple Store:
We are busy updating the store for you and will be back within the hour.
Most of this stuff should be free for download.
I hate to say this, but apple may be shooting itself in the face with this update.
Combined with people who paid for Jaguar, that brings the OS update cost to ~300dollars US??
Some people claim M$ is greedy...
I just see Apple floundering...
I'm scared, I just learned how to use the current ones :(
YarrRrr
"Got to do it, though...."
They are only charging you because they know that!
Apple has now both raised the price and shortened the time in between paid OS upgrades. Keep paying for them, and soon you be shelling out $200 every 6 months.
For years, people have been saying "Apple is a hardware company. They make software to get people to buy Macs" and that's fine with me, but I'm not going to start paying them for every piece of software and service they put out until they work on my PC hardware too.
A little early there, tiger. The G5s are showing NOW.
No. Lets see, I've got Slashdot, MacNN and MacCentral all reloading every few minutes. And of course when Jobs is done I'll watch the quicktime stream. here
-
Simply amazing, I love it. Can't wait until I can afford to buy a Mac (after the college bills stop happening).
-> Sometimes, you just gotta break free from the shackles of proprietary code.
What an odd mix, your post directly contradicts your sig. Rarely have I seen such blatant foolery.
While it's true that FreeBSD 5.1 has been out for awhile now, it's still technically a sort of -STABLE release..otherwise, the 4.x branch would've been killed already. As things currently stand, they may still take things as far as 4.9 or 4.10, last I heard.
A new feature called Expose allows minimizing into a smaller window, all open windows, to temporarily move everything out of the way, sort of like workspaces.
Thank you! It was a pain in the ass to have everything exploded on the desktop and not have an easy way of reducing everything to see the desktop...
Snooze and you lose your sushi.
Apple shows off the worlds fastest PC with three things: chip (G5), system, product. The G5 has some amazing properties: it's a 64-bit processor, runs up to 2GHz, and has a 1GHz front-side bus. It offers full SMP ("designed entirely for SMP"). The G5 has a the industry's highest bandwidth using an entirely new architecture. It has a 12 unit core with 2 FPUs.
photosMy Photostream
OS X 10.4 = Bengal
OS X 10.5 = Lion
And then Apple will have to move to the non-feline NFL franchises. Names to look forward to are Titan, Giant, Jet, Raider, Buccanneer, Eagle, Falcon and Raven but Packer, Ram, 49er, Colt, Redskin and Seahawk don't sound too good.
Something tells me that they won't ever be using Bill though.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
+ G to tha Izzo, A to tha Tizee, Talking Giz-oat, Ya'll Bettah Feel Me... +
11:10 AM - the G5 has some amazing properties. 1) It is 64 bit (as mentioned). Runs 32-bit apps nativly. 2) runs at up to 2Ghz 3) 1ghz frontside bus. but we knew all this already.
11:09 AM - World's fastest PC is here. There are three things. Chip, System, Product. The chip is the 970 (g5). 64-bit. Made by IBM. Screw Motorola.
11:09 AM - It's true!
11:08 AM - Here are the g5's. He's talking about the leak.... Was it true?
-> Sometimes, you just gotta break free from the shackles of proprietary code.
And othertimes, apparently, you have to drop 2-3k on the most proprietary home computer available.
IBM VP says it "costs $3 billion to fab this thing" because they "shrunk the gate length to 6 atomic units."
All the rumors and leaks about the specs of the G5 were true.
Totally Life!
ALL replies
What ever happened to their live webcast feed? since 1745 (live in sweden, thats GMT+1) I've hit their website for an update to get the url for the feed, but sadly none is available this year :(
:P
I've even gone to the trouble of booting up a windows pc (cause I'm a linux-boy), incase my mplayer with the !Live.com library won't work, so I have a backup, to catch his keynote Live.
So to say the least, I'm sadly disapointed on them this year. Though not in the case if something extra unordinary tradically happened, in that case I would be forgiving, but just in such a case
I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
When you compare it to the $199 (retail) price you pay for a Windows XP Pro upgrade. I wonder if they'll have another "X for Teachers" program where they'll give away a free copy of the OS to every K-12 teacher in the U.S?
In this case pudge was the defendant and the jury in the submission process. Are you inciting that slashdot submitters get off on apples? It is an interesting thought but not one I want to ponder on.
Point! Now would be the time to do it, and it would give me latitude if I decide to buy another used Mac in the future.
dochood
At least with windows you get the service packs for free - and the new versions only come out every 3 years - with this apple OS X BS it's been 3 version of OF X and I feel like i'm getting ripped off....
I should have just stuck with 9....
Ave Molech Setting
According to the text feed from MacNN the G5 will run 'up to 2Ghz'. I know this is a 64 bit chip and that I shouldn't compare numbers but we know consumers will. Does this mean that 2Ghz is the most it will do?
Another question. Too many cobwebs from electronics classes so many years ago so what does this mean:
'IBM VP says it "costs $3 billion to fab this thing" because they "shrunk the gate length to 6 atomic units."'
Jaguar is not the OS, OS X is the OS. It is not being "killed off after a year," simply upgraded to a new version. No one is being forced to upgrade, nor will developers be forced to optimize for 10.3 (the minimum requirements for new software will probably continue to be 10.2, which was the first Really Stable release).
Comparing actual improvements and new features to a bundle of bug fixes in an OS that didn't work in the first place is.. well.. missing the point.
In any case, "enterprise" is clearly not Apple's target market, with the exception of graphics houses and the like. Corporate America can go right on crunching numbers in Excel on the gray boxes.
Oh, never mind that. That was just the value of my 15" Powerbook.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
Am I the only one who doesn't like the iTunes/Safari/etc. "Brushed Metal" look? And now they're doing it to the beautiful Finder? I can't imagine that I'm the only one who thinks it looks significantly less pretty than the simpler white look. The dark gray is just too intrusive and distracting, and it just doesn't LOOK as nice. I mean, here..
r -1 1-med.jpg
http://www.studio2f.com/misc/images/1946sPanthe
Why is that better than this?:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/finder.html
I ask you. Am I alone here?
Liberty in Our Lifetime - http://www.freeme.org/
I think you are misunderstanding their announcements. They are not "killing off" their current OS after 1 year, they are continuing to improve it and add features. The core, underlying OS is not substantially different (e.g., Unix). I don't think that ~yearly upgrades disqualify an OS for "enterprise operations." Besides, Microsoft "upgrades" Window$ with service packs and so forth all the time.
for my jaquar to be over...
I write code.
I just started using Macs, after using Windows and Linux for years...
I'll pay the extra, because I don't have to screw around with it to get stuff to work the way I want, like I did Linux and Windows.
Call it "dumb" if you like, but it works for me. I'm not "dumb", but I'll admit to be "cheap" (hoping for cheaper upgrade this time around...)
dochood
...says the announcement for QuarkXPress 6 on Apple's front page.
So Quark has fallen behind once again?
As seen here (and soon on
# One more thing... some of you may have noticed on the net...there was a funny thing that happened last thursday... where specifications were posted.
# 3 responses: 1) Can't be true 2) It's true 3) It's great marketing
# "Premature specifications" - it was a mistake, and it's true.
# We are delivering today - the Worlds Fastest Personal Computer.
# The Chip - we turned to IBM several years ago.
# We're calling it the G5. It is a 64-bit processor. The first first 64-bit desktop processor. Runs our existing 32-bit apps no problems.
# fastest front sidebus - ever. designed for dual processor systems.
# Massivly parallel. Up to 250 inflight instructions. -- can be processed at the same time. The G4 can do 16. Floating point "monster". Two fully symetric integer units. massive branch prediction logic.
# This is a new generation architecture.
Of course everybody expected it, heck, even the Apple WWDC pages used the term Velocity Engine (IBM-ism) instead of Altivec (Motorola-ism) like here: http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/tracks.html (in the last item "Hardware")
Seeet!
Now time to save some money and then spend it
Oh, what the heck, time to get more indebted
Nooo, must resist temptation, DAMN YOU APPLE!!
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
Please explain, in 300 words or less, how Apple is forcing the upgrade.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
I find this interesting. Pixlet...new codec. Sounds a lot like "Pixar." Anybody know if Pixlet came from Pixar?
From macrumors ,usb 2.0
Enclosures! 9 9 fans! Single/Dual processors. Up to 8GB Memory. Can talk to mem @ 6.4GB/s. 4x Superdrive in each. Geforce fx5200 in lower, radeon 9600 pro in higher mode. System - G5 System Controller - dedicated bandwidth to each subsystem. IBM is fabricating it. 6x faster than G4, 8GB bandwidth, 1processor doesn't slow down the other one. 400mhz DDR memory, AGP 8x Pro, 133mhz PCI-X slots. Hypertransport. Serial ATA. 1.5GB/s bandwidth. independent interfaces to each drive. Rest of the i/o - high performance. optical digital i/o and analog i/o, fw800
Dear Mr. Jobs:
... please use a flame more creative than "whiner." Obliged.
Iâ(TM)m not saying I donâ(TM)t want to pay you guys when you upgrade the OS. You guys put a lot of features in every release, and your staff deserves to get paid for it. Panther looks pretty damn cool, for the most part. Just do me a favor. Reward me, even with a paltry amount, for being a customer who likes to keep his OS up-to-date.
Knock $40 off the price and call it a $89 upgrade fee. Hell, even $30, and $99, would be somewhat palatable. Thatâ(TM)s really not that much to ask, considering the discounts one can find elsewhere on the OS after a few months.
Itâ(TM)s a bit more palatable than the pure psychological âoeF--K YOUâ of making me buy the operating system over and over and over again with every new release.
Longhorn users may be waiting until 2005 for their next release, but I doubt theyâ(TM)ll have spent $460 or $690 by that point on keeping their OS up to date.
Sincerely,
Quite Unpleased Customer Who's About to Get His Ass Handed to Him By Fellow Mac Loyalists for Even Daring to Question the Wielder of the Reality Distortion Field
P.S. To all those who decide to flame instead of intelligently reply
Jaguar, software, dead at 3
I just heard some sad news at the Apple WWDC - Apple OS software Jaguar was found dead in Cupertino this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to Apple Macintosh users. Truly an American icon.
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
He is telling developers that Jaguar is dead, as far as Apple is concerned. Just because Apple is no longer developing for 10.2 doesn't mean that it has vanished from the planet. If they could do that, SCO would be licensing the process!
I'm sure that many companies (including my own) will be more than happy to continue running Mac OS X 10.2.x for quite a while until 10.3 is a proven solution. After all, you know any large enterprises tripping over themselves to install the latest Windows desktop software after it gets annonunced as a *preview* ?
Besides, do you think that Microsoft is developing for Windows 2000 anymore? I'll give you a hint... the answer starts with the letter 'N'
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
10 Copy Apple OS
20 call it an upgrade
30 Charge 130 bucks for it
40 PROFIT!!
50 goto 20
They're not killing off Jaguar. They even haven't killed off 101 yet, security updates that affect it are still released when necessary. They do have to (and can) keep improving Mac OS X though, since it's still quite young (and no, I'm not talking about iChat A/V).
Donate free food here
$2k for the low end, $3k for the dual proc. Could be worse.
$1999 $2399 $2999
Right Here: http://arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/3q02/wwdc-622.ht ml.
Note the (idiot)slashcode addition of the space in the ht ml.
What are you smoking? $1999 for the low-end?
The Political Programmer
Are you my evil twin? This is exactly what I'm doing...
YarrRrr
It seems to me that rather than being analagous to 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, etc. OS X's 10.1, 10.2, are more like System 7, System 8, System 9. Each version has entirely new features on top of entirely different underpinnings. Apple is using the cat names as an attempt to shed the 'They're charging for an upgrade!' stigma.
:(
Not that I'm looking forward to the price, mind you. However, they haven't (that I've seen) given a release date, and as I'm looking to buy a new computer it probably will work out for me. Even if I weren't, I don't think my graphite iMac would take it anyway.
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
Final version of Safari is very exciting, maybe now it won't crash regularly. Does anyone else get that?> the "unexpected quit" error?
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
3 models, all available in August :
1.6 GHz, 256 MB, 80 GB $1999
1.8 GHz, 512 MB, 160 GB $2399
Dual 2.0 GHz, 512 MB, 160 GB $2999 (Wow!)
Blah, screw it. I think my wife wants a Mac anyway.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
The Photoshop guy just said, "We'll be releasing new software at about about the same time these machines ship."
Well, my credit card, which has been quivering in my wallet's deepest darkest crevices all morning, is safe for now.
__ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
Well, that's the thing. Is the stuff in Panther worth $129? If so, then there's nothing to complain about (except that maybe you didn't get your money's worth out of Jaguar, but that's just unfortunate timing).
If it's not worth it, I'm sure Apple will support Jaguar for quite some time. As long as these (now semi-) annual upgrades aren't effectively mandatory, then I think it's a good thing - upgrade only when they've made significant changes to the things you like, but at least you get the option to upgrade a lot, unlike with Windows when real feature changes come once every 5 years.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Feed will be up here after the keynote
iSight
kawai
Oh, there's a discount plan for education. They only take your first born if you are a student.
(actually, I asked the same question and got a reply that Apple has been pretty consistent with the pricing of their top-o-the-line stuff. How do they do it? Volume! also, they are getting the chips from IBM, not MOTO. )
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
1.6Ghz = $2000
1.8Ghz = $2400
dual 2Ghz = $3000
Here Crazy Lookin
The horse is dead. Either fuck it or walk away, but please stop beating it.
This could very well pull some of the crowd who love UNIX workstations, especially with the specs on that new chip.
Hardware, software, and blinking lights!
Power Mac G5
kawai
For those who are counting, that's 5 minor releases of 10.2 since it was released and numerous security updates within 24-48 hours of the publishing of vulnerabilites.
Oh, and it all just works.
Nothing's free my friend. You can pay Red Hat $60/year or Apple $129. I think the Apple user experience is worth the extra $69 to support actual R&D, don't you?
48 bits per pixel eh? Thats 2.5 times larger
than uncompressed YUY2. Excellent.
$129.00 12 = $10.75 per month.
In other words, if you don't buy two coffees a month from Charbucks, and instead put that money in a jar or an envelope, after a year, you can buy the new Mac OS.
So, what's it going to be? Two cups of crappy, overroasted coffee a month, or a better OS?
Your choice, hepkats and hipkittens!
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
shipping august ..2000$ and up!
about time..
Here's a picture of the new G5 tower...
:)
Kinda ugly if you ask me...
ummm, Microsoft does do this. Consulting at a 2000 seat client now, with NT 4.0, Windows 2000, and XP Professional running on various machines. At least there is some compatibility around OSX; Jaguar and PAnther will probably set up and run the same.
Moving from MS machine to MS machine, remembering different commands and shortcuts for 3 distinct operating systems... ugh.
If you are a home user, please don't whine about the 'enterprise'.
It's not on TechTV! WHY THE FUCK WOULDN'T THEY SHOW IT!? Anybody know where to get it? I can't seem to find a site that's broadcasting it. AND WHY THE FUCK ISN'T TECHTV SHOWING IT???
Check them out
Looks too much like a l33t gamer pc for my tastes
---
I support spreading santorum
Glad I'm not the only one...
My first computer was a Mac Classic, but I quickly moved away from Macs for Windows, then Linux because each gave me more access to the core of the system.
With OSX, I can still get that core access, AND have the default, out-of-the-box behavior be something easy, useful, and *pretty*.
I'm quickly becoming an Apple fan again.
So, having just purchased Jaguar, I can certainly expect there to be no upgrade pricing for Panther?
:)
Ah Apple, shoving it up loyal customer's bums for over 20 years...
The world won't end in darkness, it'll end in family fun, with Coca-cola clouds behind a Big Mac sun.
As much as I was hoping for G5--and yes, it is shipping in August--I'm greatly disappointed by the pricing. Yeah, it's the fastest consumer-level computer available at the moment. But these days, speed is such that it's pretty hard to justify paying a premium price for it. Apple's bottom-end G5, the 1.6GHz model, is $2000, and that's with only 256MB and no monitor. From Dell, you can buy a 2.66GHz P4 with 512MB and an 18" UltraSharp LCD monitor for several hundred less than that. Again, that's with an 18" LCD monitor. Add those features to the G5 and you're up around $3000. This is without even considering the $2400 and $3000 higher-end G5s.
Yes, the Dell isn't as fast, but it's still damn fast. Windows has never had the sluggishness problems that OS X has had, at least not since the days of the PII. Mac users have been waiting for a speed boost to get past the point where that sluggishness is a hindrance. Now they have it...for a hugely premium price. Is it worth it? Unless the benchmarks are really, really spectacular, and you're doing something critically dependent on that kind of ultra-speed, then, no, it isn't. It's really difficult to justify paying an extra $1400+ just for bragging rights.
Predictive, distributed compiling seems quite nice. Mac programmers will buy just for that. The folder labels is a bone to the OS 9 UI bigots. Apple's mixing in new features with bringing over old features from 9 that weren't ready before 10.0 shipped.
Follow the live WWDC Steve Jobs Keynote coverage at macminute.com.
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
it's another apple marketing ploy. This way, they get another story on slashdot for the G5 announcement.
The Right Reverend K. Reid Wightman,
See it here
Look here for a couple pictures of the Mac as well as the iSight.
-- shayborg
"Longhorn users may be waiting until 2005 for their next release, but I doubt theyâ(TM)ll have spent $460 or $690 by that point on keeping their OS up to date." ...and then they will pay all of it at once, considering MS's history of pricing their OS.
Also, this is going to come out at the end of this year. Assuming that we get one $130 update every year (including this year), then staying up-to-date through 2005 will be $390--not $690.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
Original (.mac site, bandwidth will be exceeded soon probably). Mirror on my machine. Another one (side view) here.
Donate free food here
Side view available here
"Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."
Here
and Panther is not shipping till the end of the year... whats the OS status?
...
Uh, dude.....
Apple offers a $199 "family pack" for up to 5 macs in the same household. There, I just saved you $60
--
The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.
Updated every two minutes. Sort of.
Here. Exciting stuff
Eh.
How much is a Dell with a 1.6GHz Itanium, though? That's the comparison you should be making.
WTF?!?!?!
here
That family license is an awesome idea. I wish I could buy PC software that way (what little proprietary stuff I use, anyway). One purchase covers the whole fam. With multi-computer households becoming incresingly common, how long until this becomes standard?
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
Caught it from a message up above... but thanks for the tip!
Quick releases are the proof of significant innovation. If everything runs on 10.1 or 10.2 there's no need to upgrade in an enterprise situation unless the next version provides more benefit than the cost to switch. And with net booting, upgrades are considerably easier than walking around with a CD to each system.
Is there a date when Jaguar will be no supported by Apple?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered Jaguar community when slashdot confirmed that Jaguar will be dead by the end of this month. Coming on the heels of a recent Register article report that the average sales has fallen yet again, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. That Jaguar is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent World Wide Icon diversity test.
You don't need to be a Bill Gates to predict Jaguar's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Jaguar faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Jaguar because Jaguar is dying. Things are looking very bad for Jaguar. As many of us are already aware, Jaguar continues to lose users. Bugs flow like a river of blood.
The Developers are the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of their Market Share. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time programer John Galt only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Jaguar is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
Jaguar leader Jobs states that there are 7000 copies left. How many sales are there? Let's see. The number of sales versus buying posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 Sales. For Sale posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of storage posts. Therefore there are about 700 Copies For Sales. A recent article put sales at about 80 percent of the OSX market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 Sales. This is consistent with the number of Sales Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of the TCP Stack, abysmal User Interface, the browser war and so on, Apple Computers went out of business and was taken over by Microsof who sell another Web Browser to international computing interests. Now LISA is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that Jaguar has steadily declined in Users and Developers. Jaguar is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Jaguar is to survive at all it will be among carzy Macintosh Zealots. Jaguar continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Jaguar is dead.
And to top it off, from Macnn... * Apple and IBM announce 3GHz G5 within next 12 months.
My user name was a mistake. Input wasn't restricted, my bad.
I love Apple Computers. I'm typing this on an iBook, but they need to get over this "superior computer" mentality and come back down to reality. When the computer costs twice as much as the competition, it just isn't going to sell to anyone other than the Apple faithful who would spend $5000 if Jobs told them to.
Sigh, there is no sluggishness if you're using a fast Mac.
I'm running on a dual 1.42GHz G4 PowerMac right now. Sluggishness? Nope. I've found that there are some important things to remember with OS X and speed:
- You MUST have more than the paltry 256KB of L2 cache that you get with an iMac/eMac. The PowerBooks (1MB L3) and PowerMacs (1 or 2MB L3) really shine in this aspect.
- 512MB RAM is a minimum. Anything over that just makes using the computer more pleasant. I've got 1GB in mine.
- Got a Mac that doesn't support Quartz Extreme? Forget it - it's not worth the time. My old PowerBook Pismo is getting quite long in the tooth. It's not nearly as fast as the PowerMac, but it's still OK. If it had Quartz Extreme support, it'd be sweet.
BTW, this is a 64-bit desktop workstation. You can't expect the prices to stay the same for something that is completely different from the G4s that we've had now for years.
...sounds like some kind of antitank weapon.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
Which do you think is better looking?;-)
They are al$o going to be very fa$t... :^)
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
I am writing this from the Apple Store in Shaumburg, IL. The strangest thing I have seen is that the Apple Store website is currently down. THis is depite the fact that the only addition they have made today that is currently selling is the new video camera (so far... They just got done releasing the new G5 computers).
Maybe that is just to make sure no rumors start circulating. I am not sure.
The keynote has been great so far.
Seeing the dual Xeon stutter on things that the dual G5 is able to handle without sweating is great.
iChat AV looks nice. It will work really well when combined with Rendevous.
He just said that Safari is going 1.0 today.
8GB of RAM supported? Serial ATA? USB 2.0? 1 GHZ frontside bus? I said these things were too fantastical to be real. Apparently I was wrong... Glad to be wrong for once.
Keynote just ended, nothing new for sale.
About 120 people here watching. The most amazing thing? I got told that I could not take pictures with my camera. Weird...
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
Of course it's dead; it's based on *BSD.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Does anyone know if they just used distcc as discussed earlier or did they create another program? Does it check if the libraries and compilers on the machines are producing the same object code?
Let me get this straight -- when the Mac was slower than the PC and all the Mac-zealots were saying that speed doesn't matter that much, all the PC-ers couldn't stop crowing about the Mhz gap. Now, the Mac smokes the fastest PC, and the PC-ers are saying that having the fastest computer isn't that important...
/. where there was not a baker's dozen worth of comments touting how fast someone's Dell was over the newest Mac.
And "bragging rights"? Are you fuckin' high? I can't remember a day on
Maybe now, for the next year or so, we'll start to have Mac users tormenting the PC-speed freaks with the benchmarking-ugly-stick...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
At the Apple Store they just announced a new $1299 G4 available today. No specs available.
They also said pre-orders are available for Panther, and that it will ship in September.
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
Troll? Mods, please have some respect for people with logged in accounts even if their comments aren't the most brilliant on Slashdot.
Of course with any computer you have to do updates and read the EULAs. The good thing about a Mac is that the EULAs are generally straightforward, and updating via software update is a breeze-- at least most of the time. :-/
I personally do feel it's worth the extra $500, but don't take my word for it. Go spend some time on a Mac and use it for a few hours each day for a few weeks. As you go you'll find out that it is in fact a very easy to use computer and that even for someone with a lot of computer experience not having to think too hard to use the computer is a good thing.
Disclaimer: I'm a UNIX nut (hah) and now a Mac OS X evangelist, so take it with a grain of salt.
If a completely optional $120 once a year scares you away
Optional? Hardly. Watch as new versions of application programs for the Mac platform quickly drop support for anything but the latest version of Mac OS X. Heck, even Microsoft still requires that programs carrying the Windows XP Logo work on Windows 2000 and Windows ME.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Adding more pics to the parent dir.
Donate free food here
-T
Apple does sell a contract for 3 years worth of updates. The store's currently down but I think it's a considerable savings if you're going to upgrade to each new release.
One thing that Apple does that's kind of neat is that they eventually release old versions of their OS for free. If you have some ancient mac and need a copy of 7.5.3, you can just download it. Windows 95, otoh, isn't made available on those kinds of terms.
The Apple Store is back up, with G5 pics and info.
All your floating point ops are belong to us.
.... its....
Faster than a dual 3.08 Xeon.
Able to leapfrog a 533MHz sys bus in a single bound.
Its a tower, its a computer
THE FASTEST PERSONAL COMPTUER KNOWN TO MAN.
And also faster than high end Unix workstations.
I can't help it. I have to say it.
U'VE BEEN BTICHSLAPPED YOU INTEL LOVING WEENIES!
... to see that Intel picked today to announce a faster Pentium 4. Gosh, what a coincidence!
We just got the damned thing installed... have not even managed to get all the apps upgraded yet..
Shessssh.. Slow down!
---- Booth was a patriot ----
New G5 Power Macs "Fastest Desktop In The World"
Desktops (Apple)
Hardware
Posted by pudge on 06-23-03 12:18
from the want dept.
In the hardware part of his keynote address at WWDC, Jobs officially introduced the G5-based computers previously leaked on the Apple store.
See any serious problems with this story? Email our on-duty editor.
The new G5 machines, with the IBM 970 processor, use the "world's first 64-bit desktop processor" (and the "fastest 64-bit processor ever") but run both 64-bit and 32-bit apps natively, and run up to 2GHz. The bus is 1GHz ("fastest ever") and it is designed for dual processing and full symmetric processing.
Beyond the many numbers, the bottom line is that the new machines have a new architecture, and that the memory speed is now the bottleneck, not the processor or bandwidth speeds. So they can have up to 8GB of 128-bit DDR RAM, as it is efficient to keep data in memory. The memory bandwidth is one of the most talked-about features of the new architecture.
USB 2.0 is now included, as are FireWire 400 and 800, Bluetooth, AirPort Extreme, and digital audio in and out. The 4x SuperDrive is now standard, and it can house up to 500GB of internal storage.
For video, the GeForce FX5200 is standard on low-end models, Radeon 9600 Pro on high-end models.
The case of the new machines is redesigned too, from the ground up, focusing on decreasing noise and heat. It is an aluminum enclosure, with ports for FireWire and USB on the front, and a door on the side to get into the box. It has four distinct "thermal zones" with computer-controlled cooling with its nine (yes, nine) independent fans. And it is much quieter than its predecessor.
The G5 is 10 percent slower than the P4 and Xeon in SPEC int scores in single-proc units, but 20 percent faster in FPU scores, and the dual-proc G5 beats the dual-proc Xeon in all SPEC scores.
The models are a single 1.6 GHz ($1999), single 1.8GHz ($2399), and dual 2GHz ($2999). They will ship in August. A 3GHz processor will be available from IBM in 12 months.
Apple notes that recompiling apps for the 64-bit architecture is easy, and in some cases can be done in minutes.
There was no word about the heavily anticipated redesign of the 15" PowerBooks.
Pay the fuck up!
thats all..just wondering.
freaks.
Does anyone have a link to the new X11 support features, version, description, etc? Much obliged, Kremvax
--- Little Atomo - The Amazing Thinking Robot from Atomocom! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIP9KisHi4k
Steve Jobs takes the stage. [13:02 ET] .Mac to offer auto-syncing of files. [13:19 ET]
We have so much great stuff for you today, we may need to take a break in the middle, says Jobs. [13:03 ET]
3800 attend Keynote [13:04 ET]
300,000 Airport Extremes have shipped. [13:06 ET]
58 Apple retail stores: 17 million visitors so far. [13:06 ET]
Jobs showing a rendered pic of the upcoming San Francisco Apple store. [13:06 ET]
Later today Apple will ship its one millionth iPod. [13:08 ET]
Apple has sold 5 million songs on its online music store. [13:08 ET]
5 million Safari beta downloads since January. [13:10 ET]
Safari 1.0 final will be available for download in a few hours. [13:10 ET]
Apple also releasing Safari SDK for developers. [13:11 ET]
Over 100 new features in Panther, the next major revision of Mac OS X. [13:12 ET]
Mac OS X is now the most popular UNIX in the world, says Jobs. [13:13 ET]
Panther to offer lots of UNIX features and Windows operability. [13:14 ET]
Jobs says the old Finder was 'computer-centric' and Apple wants something 'user-centric' [13:15 ET]
Panther features a one-column Finder, brushed metal Finder window, fast searching, an 'Action" button, the return of Labels, and New open and Save panels. [13:16 ET]
Jobs demoes Panther. [13:17 ET]
There is a new iChat 2 icon with a camera in the middle that Jobs has not mentioned yet. [13:17 ET]
The searches appear tremendously fast in the new Finder. Jobs says it is "The best the world has ever seen." [13:18 ET]
New
Next up: "Expose" [13:20 ET]
Expose is a new feature for organizing windows. [13:21 ET]
Jobs says it makes it easier to find the window you are looking for. [13:22 ET]
Expose shrinks all of the windows in order to display them all on the screen at once, so you can find what you are looking for easily. [13:23 ET]
Users can assign any key on their keyboard (or assign screen corners) to perform this feature. Lots and ooohs and aaaahs from the audience. [13:23 ET]
Expose uses Quartz Extreme. [13:25 ET]
FileVault: secures a user's entire Home folder. [13:26 ET]
It encrypts and decrypts on-the-fly. [13:26 ET]
Mail to be optimized for Panther. [13:26 ET]
The new Mail app will be much faster, offer Safari rendering built-in, allows you to manage your mail by threads, and Addresses are now 'Objects' [13:28 ET]
Jobs demoes HTML emails. [13:28 ET]
Jobs demoes thread view in Mail. [13:29 ET]
IPSec-based VPN is built-in to Panther. [13:30 ET]
Built-in fax in Panther -- every print panel has a fax button. [13:30 ET]
'Pixlet' features a breakthrough new QuickTime codec with studio-grade quality -- 48 bits / pixel source data, no noticeable visual artifacts, no inter-frame compression. [13:31 ET]
Jobs demoes Pixlet by showing a Finding Nemo trailer. [13:33 ET]
Jobs shows Matrix Reloaded trailer. The quality is outstanding. [13:35 ET]
Preview: Jobs talks about PDF. [13:35 ET]
Apple has updated Preview to be the fastest PDF reader in the world. Jobs compares the render speed to Windows Acrobat 6 -- Acrobat gets trounced. [13:35 ET]
By the way, Jobs has a small camera hooked up to the top of his Cinema display. No mention of it yet however... [13:37 ET]
Scrolling a large PDF document is very fast in the new Preview. A search feature has also been added. [13:38 ET]
Preview offers on-the-fly postscript to PDF conversion. [13:39 ET]
Faster User Switching: there is now a menu in the corner to switch between multiple users on a machine. [13:40 ET]
The Fast Switch in awesome - loud applause from the crowd. The Desktop literally spins around to the new one, kind of like Keynote. [13:40 ET]
FontBook: handles professional font management. One button to install a new font. [13:42 ET]
Offers a nice preview feature and instant searching. This is built into Panther. [13:42 ET]
Jobs says he saved the best for last... iChat. [13:43 ET]
25% of Apple customers use it routinely. [13:43
"NFS file locking"
After all these years, someone finally made this work? INCONCEIVABLE!
- Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
10.1->10.2 was *not* a "minor" update by any stretch of the imagination, nor is 10.2->10.3 going to be a "minor" update (unless you call adding major features such as FileVault, an updated application suite, a font manager, iDisk syncing, a new appearance for the entire Finder, fast user switching, and a hundred other things "minor").
10.0->10.1, OTOH, *was* free.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
You will have to look through sites like Fink and the Darwin project to see what they have. There are a lot of good CLI apps ported to OSX either through Aqua or X11
a bunch of links here.
Three ***'s mean Jeff likes the site.
photosMy Photostream
Get it here.
~Philly
I used to feel this way ... then, I realized something: Apple sells the hardware, and OS X only (well, almost only) runs on Apple hardware. So, if they started doing upgrade pricing, virtually *everyone* would get the upgrade. Also, bear in mind that they are developing a full-blown OS, easily comparable to MS, for a small fraction of the market that MS has. It's a wonder that it's comparable in price, much less cheaper.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Bah!
In the future, try to keep your errors a minimum of two words away from the part where you call someone dumb.
I find it curious that many of you will bitch and moan about how expensive MS operating systems are but find Apple's pricing of OS X releases agreeable or complain very little. Looking at the list of "features", this basically looks like a $129 fixpack. Various app speedups, minor enhancements, and slight UI changes for a few apps is worth $129 and Windows is too expensive?
Consider this: I can go out right now and buy a FULL, non-upgrade OEM copy of Windows XP for $99 (plus the negligible cost of a small piece of computer hardware to make the deal legit) to update a system with Windows 98 installed on it. That's $99 for what is a very serious operating system overhaul. Compare this to upgrading OS X 10.2 -> 10.3, which costs $129 for what amounts to a bunch of fixes (and an update to the FreeBSD 5.0 core -- that's relatively major, but not as major as Win9X to NT).
And Windows is too expensive...?
That is without a doubt one of the worst-looking Apple products I have *ever* seen. It looks like a complete departure from the aesthetically pleasing (despite the plastique) G3/G4 form factor. It's all boxy and metallic and the handles don't look quite right. The last "fugly" Apple product I would compare this to is the disastrous 17" CRT studio display with clear plastic so you could see the mess of internals. Apple, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?
...at 1.8GHz it would probably actually be cheaper than the P4. Not that we'll ever see an opteron system from dell though.
Ok, this whole frenzy over WWDC has been a blast. But this tops all, I just took a look at apple's online store (slowwww). The graphic that was accidently leaked of the G5 specs is the only image now that is not updated! HA! It just seems way to funny to me, the whole page is G5, except for that one graphic. Someone's having fun.. hahahaha...
Long live Mac OS 10.3 (AKA Panther)!
If Microsoft did this
Your problem being...?
sfari 1 and the new ichat is on saftware update and at apple.com!!! yes!! posting with safari 1!
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Even so, the price difference between comparably equipped Intel and Apple systems is not that big.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
As for me, Windows has always worked just the way I wanted it to all the time. Also, it's the ultimate cheap machine.
:)
After all, this is where all the good Warez are.
$500 for Photoshop? Not according to my pal Kazaa.
-=-=-=-=-=
I'd rather be flamed than ignored.
The iApps (iPhoto, iMovie, etc.) are scriptable using Applescript. For instance, there are scripts out there that hook iCal up with iTunes, so that iCal causes iTunes to start playing music at a given point in time.
You can run Applescripts from the command line
Applescript is anologous to VBA in the Windoze world, except that it is implemented at the OS level, rather than in each application. There's an API for programmers to hook up the Applescript engine to their code. AppleScript Studio, part of the developer tools, lets you create programs with a native Mac OS X interface, using AppleScript (instead of C++, Objective C or Java).
-- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
from apple.com's preview:
Panther will include a final X11 client for Unix-based applications, improved NFS/UFS, FreeBSD 5 innovations as well as support for popular Linux APIs, IPv6 and other important acronyms.
This is why I love Apple... That, and their entire "copyright protection mechanism" on the iPod is that little sticker that says "Don't steal music".
"Other important acronyms" hehehe
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
Where does it say that ? They do have a preview which outlines what it will have, but near as I can tell, you have to be a paying ADC member to be able to get a copy now.
Here
FINDER IS BRUSHED METAL IN PANTHER!!!
yes I am yelling. It's ugly, it breaks Apple's own stated uses for brushed metal, and it has less functionality than the standard windows, while wasting more space.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
so when will Apple go bankrupt/get bought out now? I'm sure they spent their entire year's profit on this keynote address. I hear their marketing budget for this new OS is bigger than their development budget. Oh wait, that's microsoft.
B
"I'm payin' taxes, but what am I buyin'?" -- James Brown
actually, i tried to buy a family license back then when jaguar came out. however, i couldn't find a shop that sold it. all of them had the single license version, but claimed that there is no point in having the family license in stock because "nobody every asks for it".
eventually i bought a single license and installed it on 3 machines. why do they have to make it so hard to be honest?
(i can't order it online. i don't have a credit card because i don't see any reason why a bunch of greedy people that waste a lot of money on advertising should get 3% or more of everything i buy. i'd rather give these percents to those people who provide something valuable to me.)
MS may be evil, but they never forced me to buy a new version of windows to get the latest web browser.
Well, not yet.
Jay (=
These machines would appear (based upon the information released thus far) to represent the most significant leap forward in desktop processing power and (to me, most notably) I/O performance that's within the reach of consumers. Try finding a dual-CPU Itanium system for home, and even if you can, at what price?
;-)
No, I'm glad to see these systems priced this low. Apple is first out the chute with a 64-bit desktop offering and it's kinda surprising that they're not trying to milk it more for a few months.
I for one am starting to put some money aside now so I can buy one when Panther is included in the system at years' end. Gotta replace the 8500, and this seems like a moderate upgrade.
- Leo
You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
I hate to say this, but it looks like a bit of a Windows XP-catch up release to me. As a regular and happy user of both operating systems, I say there are definitely useful things missing in OS X that XP has by default. Faxing for one - news in the developers conference, but Windows has had that as standard since 1995. Fast user switching - an absolute god-send to me, and extremely welcome. But again, it's an XP catch-up feature. Video conferencing? Snap - a catch-up with Netmeeting.
Now, that's not to say I'm disappointed with things. Personally, I think a pause to fill in the missing gaps is welcome, and I'll definitely appreciate not having to remote desktop to my PC to send off a fax. There are also some nice new Mac-only features to go coo at, but on the whole I'll stick by my opinion that in terms of functionality at least, this is a catch-up with XP.
One thing I am disappointed in is Safari 1.0 however. Using it at the moment, and I went back to all the sites I'd reported as being rendered incorrectly - they're still rendered incorrectly. Not one bug fixed. You also can't block images coming from a particular server - a feature I use a lot in Firebird, can't tab onto drop-downs and you can't set your homepage to be a group of tabs. A massive let down. It hasn't done nearly enough to become my default browser yet.
Also disappointed not to see an iSync update - Symbian-based phones aren't properly supported at the moment, and since most of the smart-phones sold in the UK at least are Symbian-based then that's an itch that needs scratching.
Overall happy then, but I still think this is a bit of a catch-up rather than anything revolutionary.
Cheers,
Ian
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Honestly, I see no point in switching. Who's gonna pay 129 dollars just for a brushed-metal finder? No performance enhancements, no nothing. Those improvements in the network are are nice, but I still think it's worthless, specially because most people don't care whether NFS lock works or not. I know people are gonna bash me like crazy because of this (curse u apple lovers :p), but u guys are /.ers not people who are alienated about computers, as most people in the world are.
Well, that belted a laugh out of me.
"What thou shalt not, I shalt did!" -Bart Simpson
I'm still pissed at Apple for not supporting Java 1.4 under 10.1
I expect they will pull the same shenanigans when Tiger (1.5) becomes available.
I'm glad they decided to flaunt the Quartz engine this way. And they're really doing it just because it's cool.
You tell me how "whilst" differs from "while," and I'll stop calling you a pretentious jackass.
No, Linux doesn't. Becuase fast user switching has nothing to do with Linux.
KDE and Gnome could get fast user switching though, as they are the programs/libraries that control user intaction with the computer via a GUI.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
When are they going to fix the fact that it takes forever for it to handle redirects??
Friggin annoying.
Dominic Giampolo? Is that you?
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/jun/happy_wwdc/ wwdc_250_100_56_ref.mov
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
Being a recent convert to the Mac/Apple fold, I find I have both concerns about these upgrade cycles and at the same time, I feel they are justified.
Let's take a look and see what we are comparing so we aren't comparing Apples and well.. you know.
In my mind, there are really only three platforms out there: Apple, Windows, and *nix(Linux,BSD,Solaris,etc).
Let's look at the "cost" of upgrades for each of these, shall we?
With Apple, it seems you pay $129 for each major revision change. People who were using 10.0-10.1 were charged to go to 10.2 and now it seems that 10.2 users(myself included) will be charged to go to 10.3.
My experience with my iBook running 10.2.6 has been about as damn near perfect as I have ever experienced on any platform with a user interface to match. Sure I paid top dollar for a laptop which won't beat my fellow co-workers' 1-2Ghz laptops anytime soon, but I also won't be cursing at my laptop for wiping out my data either. That has got to be worth something.
With Linux, we get free kernel and OS upgrades. However, each time I went through the upgrade process, I had to literally double check every software package and perform countless recompiles to get things right again. On average, with every major kernel release I have had to spend the better part of an afternoon performing "installation" exercises. With every minor release, I have had to recompile the kernel. I didn't pay cash on the barrel for the upgrade, but I paid for it in time.
With Windows, it has always been a struggle. People say *nix is unfriendly. I say it is Windows which is unfriendliest of all. You have to pay about $149 for an upgrade to the OS or in my case, $349 for the "full" version of the software. To top it off, if I have any aspirations of a marginally stable system, I have to perform a clean install and not just an upgrade on top of my existing system. This results in at least a full day of work on my part in re-installing the OS and all of the applications on the system. I pay in time and money.
Now. With that in mind, I'm looking at the prospect of paying $129 for the 10.3 version of Mac OSX:Panther for my iBook which will run better with other systems and be even friendlier.
I think I can live with that.
Winged Power Photography
Looking at the screen shots of the Panther Finder (http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/finder.html), I noticed that the windows are using the same widgets, and generally has the same "feel" as the Safari browser.
Now, Safari is based on KHTML - KDE's Konqueror rendering engine. Konqi is a web AND local file browser in one. All Apple needs to do is add a "Web" button on the left (next to "Applications", "Home", etc) and build the KHTML rendering engine into the Finder, and there you go: Web and file browser in one.
Note that the Mail program in Panther uses the KHTML rendering engine in Safari to render HTML messages, so the framework to do this is already there.
"Jesus saves, but everyone else in a 10 foot radius takes full damage from the fireball."
I haven't lost anything. No such point was made to me.
Does your *realtime* MPEG4 encoder do realtime, without noticible artifacts? I think not.
I wasn't aware there is an option for lossless compression specified in MPEG4. If that's the case (and I don't believe it is, but I could be wrong), then you're certainly right. But assuming MPEG4 is, as I believe it to be, strictly a lossy codec, then you're not going to get around artifacting in your video without applying smoothening filters that would only further separate the compressed video from its original. That's the sacrifice you make with lossy codecs.
I don't care to argue about processor specifics. It's completely irrelevant. I simply posted to refute the implied claim of parent poster that x86 is incapable of doing MPEG4 in real-time.
I use mencoder (mplayer) to do my encoding. I use CBR because it's slightly less CPU intensive. CBR is, by its very nature, more likely to produce compression artifacting. I can do VBR (constant quantizing) in real-time, but I prefer to have the wiggle room in CPU usage, and since the video source is television, I don't notice the quality difference. But I have not seen MPEG4 at sane bitrates (less than 2500kbit, say) that did not yield perceptible artifacting. I'd certainly be interested in seeing your examples.
Cheers,
Jason.
I was watching the streaming video, over 56k, and one of the few parts I could actually hear was -
"It takes a little while longer to negotiate with France." - Steve Jobs, during iChat AV demo with Jean Marie in Paris. It works on so many levels.
It seems like actually being able to buy the product you can't find anywhere else is pretty valuable. Would you pay 3% for that?
Apple has like 5% of the desktop market relative to the windows desktop market.
Apple can do anything they want, there is no competition. Microsoft will continue to be "behind" in OS sophistication yet *AHEAD* in all the important ways (revenue, money, popularity etc etc etc).
- Voxel
"Bite my shiny metal ass." - Bender from Futurama.
Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
OS X.0 had several updates as did OS X.1 and X.2, all of which were available free. If the .x are service packs, what are the .x.y updates?
The last time I was on the Apple site, I was pricing xServes for a client proposal. They do come with a 3 yr purchase plan.
As for free old OS versions, everything up to 7.6.1 is available with 8 and 9 not being released yet (except for the free updaters within 8 and 9).
If you can't afford the software, stay at your OS level. I'd still be at 10.1 if it wasn't for one particular program that annoyed me into 10.2. I'll likely stay here until I buy my next mac and get a family plan to upgrade all three.
You don't have to upgrade if what you have works for you. For a lot of people 10.1 is fine, for even more 10.2 will work just fine. When 10.4 rolls out in 2004/2005 some will make the jump while others will hold out for 10.5 in 2005/2006.
I don't understand why you *have* to upgrade from 10.2 when you aren't getting a new mac. What's so lacking with that?
I wasn't at MacWorld, but I did watch the speech over my 56K line. I was most impressed with the pixlet component of the presentation-- absolutely beautiful.
If by "very fast" you mean "only slightly slower than a $600 wal-mart PC," that is. Seriously, I've seen a PC at wal-mart that has a faster processor than both of their single-processor unit (~2GHz). Sure, it might not be 64-bit, but it's almost 1/4rd the price, too.
There's a huge difference between 98 to XP or 2000. Alot more then what you get for upgrading from 10.2 to 10.3. XP is an entirely new OS, 10.3 no matter what you say is just an upgrade to an existing OS. Based on what I've seen it's more equivalent to a major SP release from MS.
Service Packs for Windows are just a bunch of security patches and bug fixes all rolled up into one neat package. Microsoft doesn't use service packs to roll out new software.
The possible exception to this rule are a couple of recent service packs for Windows 9x and 2000 that have included Microsoft Windows Media Player - a DRM-laden piece of software that Microsoft is trying to push as an all-encompassing alternative to RealOne Player, Winamp, etc, and which is free to download anyhow.
As has been said repeatedly throughout this discussion in other posts, the nearest equivalent Apple has to a Service Pack is the minor releases that it issues - ie, OS X 10.2.1, 10,2.2, 10,2.3, 10,2.4, 10,2.5 and 10.2.6. None of these cost a penny to download.
The nearest equivalent Microsoft has ever had to a Jaguar to Panther leap (if you'll pardon the pun) is Windows 95 to Windows 98 - 98 was the same underlying OS with a few extra bells and whistles. The upgrade cost of Windows 98 was the same for Windows 95 users as it was for Windows 3.1 users.
According to Steve Jobs's keynote address, Panther introduces 100 new features to the OS. Well, that's 100 more than there has ever been in all the Service Packs that Microsoft has introduced for all the versions of Windows.
Comparing Windows Service Packs and these major feature-packed Apple releases is ridiculous. They are like chalk and cheese.
Yes, there is a huge difference between 98 and XP or 2000. But have you seen how much Windows users have to pay for these new features? The difference between 2000 and XP is mostly cosmetic - have you seen how much an upgrade from 2000 to XP costs?
Why is it so unreasonable for Apple to charge half of what Microsoft would for what most people would consider a superior product?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
IIRC, MPEG is just the wrapper. Codecs are pluggable.
ichat is standards compliant, yet A/V only works between two macs running ichat. am i missing something? how about A/V support for AIM and yahoo?
and safari still has bugs. this code works on every browser i've tested BUT safari:
var foo = new Image();
foo.onload = function() { alert("load"); };
foo.onerror = function() { alert("error"); };
foo.src = "foo.jpg";
Running for the escape pod after you activated the self destruct is probably one of my favorite gaming moments!
There aren't many games that have had that kind of atmosphere since.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You get spare parts thru authorized mac shops if you trade in the broken parts, practically "life time" supply of spare parts (Sun Remarketing sells parts for the really old hardware).
I don't know how much the 'premium' is, because I haven't had a broken mac ever. I'm writing this on my 14:th Mac.
I am a Mac-user since late 80's.
Glad you bought a Mac, but you are seriously misinformed. I'll let the AC who doesn't get to normally be seen have a voice first:
" That, and professionals who use their Macs to make money. (Multimedia creators, architects, etc.)
iBooks and iMacs will still be around for people with more modest needs. These are the machines they are selling to the power users."
-AC
As for myself, I'm not so sure you're aware of exactly what the "competition" consists of.. seems that you think the build-to-order Windows machines on Dell's site are the competition. Apple's market is much more broad than just Windows users.
We want a machine that will enhance us in some way, to let us be productive instead of getting in our way as we go about our use of the tool that is in the end just a computer.
Whether it's audio, film, science, coding, or any of the numerous jobs/applications that these Macs will do, they do and run them at blistering speeds, and hold their value for a long time.
Also, how does the XCode IDE relate to Project Builder? is it the replacement, new version, or complementary software?
It's not a faster processor, it's a higher clocked processor with a different architecture. They are two different things.
Granted, Apple must amortize their OS development costs over a much smaller user base, and so one expects to pay somewhat more for Mac OS than Windows (although they do have the closed hardware platform as another revenue stream, as well as a vastly reduced set of hardware to test against). However, it would be still nice to get even a nominal discount from Apple for upgrading one's OS annually. Given that most rebate programs tend to get less than 10% participation (shh!!), a $15 rebate would make people "feel good" and probably not cost Apple much at all...
Economically, probably those of us who upgrade annually are likely to do it anyways, so Apple is probably making the right choice financially to soak us, but they could at least whitewash it a little more so we can continue to lie under the pleasant thrum of the Steve Jobs reality distortion field while we eat our food pellets and the AIBO mows the chem-lawn outside...
Not suprising, but most the comments here are about either the new G5s or the cost of the upgrade. But, if you look through the features, IMHO there's some pretty cool stuff. Sure, I've bought all the updates. Sure, I'm annoyed that I gots to buy another (or time my system upgrade just right). Sure, I'm a complete Mac fan. But in looking at 10.3, I said wow more than a couple of times.
1. Expose - This actually looks really useful. You can never have too much screen estate, and although I might prefer a virtual screen functionality, maybe I won't care. This easily lets you not only sort through the clutter for a single app or all apps, it keeps everything the way it way (just with the new window on top). No more minimizing then having to bring back to the top. Right now, I'm running Win2k and even with my Taskbar at three levels, I've got so many terminals up it's disgusting. I'm pretty sure this is a completely new concept, but I'm sure someone will tell me otherwise. I can prolly still patent it tho....
2. Multi-User- Ok, this isn't huge. X has allowed Unix to do it for years, and XP beat OSX to the punch. But, in classic Apple style, they map the various users onto a cube and rotate that to go between users "because they can." Waste of proc power? No, cuz it's Quartz and the graphics card is handling all that. Useful? No. Supacool, I think so. Hopefully you're not limited to 6 multi-user logins though.
3. File Vault - 128bit automatic encryption/decryption of your home directory. Of course, I'm sure this slows the system and I would probably turn it off, but it's certainly viable for enterprise users. Until you lose the key, of course.
4. Font Book - I'm not a graphics guy, I'm a low level embedded software freak. But, I hear those graphics people have a lot of fonts and for some reason, have all sorts of finding the one they want. Well, here's Font Management built right into OSX.
5. X11 - Frankly, this is a no brainer. Any argument that the Mac doesn't have that many apps for it have been shot dead. At least when it's the Linux people saying it. Sure, Windows still has more apps, and more than one way to do it, but does it matter that there are 10 word processors for Windows when all anyone uses is Office?
Throw in an increase in speed speed speed, better windows (and the rest of the world) connectivity, a rewritten (Snappy!) Finder, Quicktime, and who knows what else under the hood and you've got a great update. Sure, a lot of software will have to be tweaked to work with the update, but OSX is still maturing. APIs will stabilize soon and be solid, but Apple is adding functionality on top of all this.
Mostly free code??? Maybe the lowest level of underpinnings. Trust me, none of the gooey Aqua goodness is open source.
Not that I should encourage this, but another one of Apple's niceties is that they don't have any draconian installation BS. No keys to enter, you don't even have to register the software. So, nothing is stopping you from buying a single copy and putting it on multiple machines. Except maybe your conscience...
You went to WWDC and got your copy of the Panther Developer Preview. Now run to your hotel room, make disk images, create a .torrent, post it on Slashdot and share it with the world.
Come on....do it, do it, do it...
For the record, it's possible to get "realtime" MPEG4 encoding that looks good.. but it still won't be artifact-free. That is what they are claiming here.
Just like Jobs claim that AACs sound BETTER than CDs. Less noticeable artifacts maybe - hell, very likely. Artifact free? No way in hell.
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
Apple "forces" users to upgrade by innovating too damn fast. Every new computer or OS release is so much better that it makes the previous system look lame by comparison. Since Appel now uses an eminently debuggable processor architecture, a robust Unix-based core for the OS, and produces the best freakin' development system in the world their rate of innovation is increasing more and more. The new XCode system is so far ahead of Microsoft's Visual toolset that we Mac users are probably going to be "forced" to upgrade every few months now. Damn you Apple! Damn you to Hell!
-- thinkyhead software and media
Actually, I'll bet that a 2GHz Athlon would beat a 1.8GHz PPC970 at many real-world benchmarks (let's say UT2003). I don't think the IBM procs have AltiVec, and the 64-bit architecture is probably slower when running 32-bit apps. You only need 64 bits for addressing more than 4 GB of RAM. It doesn't help with speed at all. Yes, the bus speed is faster, but that may not make much of a difference for most things. Memory access speed is not usually a bottleneck.
I also laughed when Steve said "[and the G5] has massive branch prediction logic.... which I don't know what it does - predicts branches. (laughter) I don't know... but it's a good thing (heavy laughter).
Sadly, probably a while yet. Apple's family license basically works on the honour system. There are no serial numbers or anything like that. It's to keep honest people honest, just like the quasi-DRM on the Apple Music Store.
Sadly, though, very few software companies are willing to put that faith in people.
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
I was really hyped about jaguar when it was released and got it immediately: shelled out 169 euro's (as compared to $129 for jaguar US) to buy it. Apple promised me a Sherlock that could find me a restaurant NEAR ME, directions to drive there. It promised it would tell me what movie is playing when and where. In fact, apple's dutch website is STILL promising these features. (www.apple.nl). Too bad Sherlock's yellow Pages have no dutch addresses listed... Too bad it's moviefinder only looks at US cinema's... Too bad Sherlock's television listings do not list any channel I can receive in Amsterdam... And too bad Apple charged me a lot more for Jaguar then it charges it's American customers, while delivering less functionality. And the baddest, baddest thing of all: Apple is still making false promises about Sherlock for Jaguar! Maybe I should drag Apple to court over this? Or is making false statements legal on the internet?
What companies like microsoft don't understand is that everybody does this anyway. If your kid needs office for school, most of the time dad just loads the copy that came with his PC. They would make a lot of friends by making family-wide installs permissible. Oh well, I guess that customer touch is part of what makes Apple who they are.
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
No, mpeg is a complete framework, mpeg-4 specifies some codecs (ie what a decoder has to do to decode a compliant bitstream, you can decide how you want to encode it which is probably what you meant), a file format (a .mov look-a-like) and myriads of other stuff
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
There has never been even two years in a row, much less three, where you got all the updates from Microsoft "for free", despite your misleading claim to the contrary.
If we assume a the "Home" verison of each operating system, purchased in the year 2000, the math goes something like this:
Microsoft, home versions:
Microsoft, full featured versions:
Apple, home and business versions:
I do not see any scenario where the Apple price is higher. Please point out where my math is wrong.
Slashdot is jumping the shark. I'm just driving the boat.
well, as i see it they screwed themselves. they claimed the family pack should be available in shops, but it isn't. so i had to make a choice between supporting somebody i hate, or partially supporting somebody i like.
considering that during the last 2 years i gave apple about 4500 euro, i really didn't feel bad about the latter.
>Just like Jobs claim that AACs sound BETTER than CDs. Less noticeable artifacts maybe - hell, very likely. Artifact free? No way in hell.
:-)
Maybe he meant "AAC ripped from vynal records"
I'll pay the extra, because I don't have to screw around with it to get stuff to work the way I want, like I did Linux and Windows.
...call me when I know I'll be able to print reliably in OSX again, or my powerbook & ibook aren't constantly kernel panic'ing after being awoken from sleep.
I don't want to pay extra, because there are big gaping holes in what works now. IE, I have no problem with paying for upgrades, I have problems when the 'upgrade' fixes a feature that never worked correctly.
If no one else will, I guess I'll have to do it myself. Found it on Google Groups. http://www.torrentreactor.com/download.php?file=Pa nther_WWDC_Developer_Preview.torrent
Every Buffy fan knows what shiny really means!
Actually, I think that Panther might work fine on your graphite. I'm running the Panther dev preview on my 400mHz Indigo iMac with 1GB of RAM. It works beautifully, in some cases faster (at least that's how it feels) than Jaguar. I am sad, though, that the user transition Cube Effect doesn't happen...methinks it needs Quartz Extreme.
Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither do I - get Mac OS
Why would one buy an Opetron for home use? Wait for Athlon64! opetron is for servers. Duh.
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