Slashdot Mirror
Berkeley TCP socket interface for the Apple IIgs
Scott C. Linnenbringer writes "In case you wanted to do something cool with your fancy little Apple IIgs in the back room, you can use GS/TCP to implement a standard BSD socket interface, allowing you to connect via SLIP, MacIP, and soon PPP on a GNO/ME (GNO Multitasking Environment) UNIX system for the IIgs, now completely abandoned, open-sourced and labeled freeware. GS/TCP also comes with ftp and inetd, built with ORCA/C directly from BSDi sources (hacked, of course,) and a text web browser for GNO/ME can be found at the website."
Just when you thought the web couldn't get any slower....
What if I already have a beowulf cluster of them?
Karma: Can there be a void?
.. -. - . .-. .-. --- -...
TAHWTMA = This arcticle has way to many acronyms.
Can you imagine a non techie reading this article.
This is news because the date on the picture is February, 1996?
BSD lives forever. And there is nothing that you can do about it. :)
That's nice and all but when can I get this for my Franklin Ace 1000? hmmm?
Sweet! I can't wait to play Choplifter over the Internet!
Physicists do it with a big bang!
This is another one of those cool but completly useless projects.
Seriously, if your reading this, your probably have a better computer than an Apple IIgs.
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
Kudos to those who pulls off stuff like these.
I'm not familiar with the current legal status of the Minix source code, but I think it would be interesting to see a port of it to the IIgs. I don't have any illusions about such an effort yielding anything of practical use, I just think it would be cool. The x86 version of Minix will run on a PC/XT, a system whose processor lacks any sort of memory protection functionality, with 256k of memory and a single 360k floppy drive.
If an OS like contiki can be crafted for a C64, surely Minix or something like it can be made to work on the IIgs.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
This is good news, i havn't done anything with my IIgs but play Oregon Trail, Carmen Sandiago and Number Munchers.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
No dissing the IIgs. I cut my teeth on that thing when the alternatives were a 286 with crappy cga graphics or IIE unless you had a pile of cash. I'm glad someone posted this....it's motivation enough to brave the dust of the attic eaves and break that baby out. I probably won't get past a nostalgic Bard's Tale game or two though.
Long live the IIgs!
Any reason there's no mention of marinetti in this article? Marinetti implements a TCP/IP stack for the IIgs, but works under the IIgs' native interface, GS/OS. There's telnet, ftp, AIM, and email apps already, and even the beginnings of a *graphical* web browser for it. And yes, it's open source as well.
"I feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up." -- Tom Lehrer
Against some VERY stiff competition, I nominate this article for the coveted /. "Nerdiest Article of the Year".
I mean, sheesh, more acronyms in that description than unwilling virgins on this site...
Read reviews of shopping cart software
Because we can.
But, seriously, I remember Apple IIes from grade school. They lagged when interpreting text based BASIC games... I mean, all of my programming assignments... Sounds like this stuff would make them keel over, more likely than not. Then again, the problem may have been the BASIC...
====
Crudely Drawn Games
Anybody here tell me if this is all compatible with the hardware TCP/IP accelerators I've been reading about recently?
Gettin' this processin' off the tcp/ip stack on each machine would be heaven
This is both interesting and a terrible shame. It's interesting, because the people involved obviously have some talent. It's a shame, because they're devoting such talent to utterly useless projects.
There's NOTHING you couldn't do better, easier, cheaper, for less power/heat, in a smaller package, and faster(all by dozens of orders of magnitude)...with something more modern.
Even the 8-bit uC sitting on my desk right now runs at 50mhz, fully supports C or an easy to learn assembly language- it's got seperate data+IO busses, 5-6 serial ports(SPI, IrDA, RS232, RS485 are all supported), dozens of IO lines for bitwise or parallel IO...builtin ethernet with a VERY thorough royalty-free TCP/IP stack w/large set of utility routines, two forms of realtime operations(one is the uCOSII). Oh yes, and it costs about $50 in single-unit quantities including ethenet magnetics etc...with very aggressive quantity pricing. Oh, and it's based off the Z80 family, so if you know the Z80, you'll find this baby pretty familiar(if you hadn't guessed already, this is the Rabbit3000 core module.)
...and it's just ONE of hundreds of uC's available.
Please help metamoderate.
The TRS-80/Apple II flamewars. We'll just call it a draw, ok?
Apple Computer Announces The IIgs
RetroSoft's Exclusive Look
A motor-horse 2800KHz, 1MHz FSB and 8192KB RAM, all topped off with a beautiful, crisp, 2-bit (4-bit supported!), 640x480 monitor.
Apple really hit the mark with this beast, even including audiophiles that needed state-of-the-art mono sound output, capable of digital sound processing (line-in will be included in future models). When we listened to the latest hits in MIDI, they sounded remarkably better than our IBM-Compatible BEEP in QBasic.
Finally, the IIgs comes with a built-in floppy drive to store all your files, games, and, "most importantly music, " according to Steve Jobs.
"Now you can take all your music with you anywhere, over 1,000 digital music files in your pocket. The new floppy has no moving parts, meaning a better overall product for our users. We've got a real hit with the IIgs."
The Political Programmer
You'd have to be crazy to waste that much time on a woefully obsolete machine instead of using the modern one you've already got for the same purpose.
Except the beautiful thing about the Apple ]['s were the learning one could get out of them. My Apple ][+ at least shipped with full schematics to the computer including all wiring and chip ID's. It was a fantastic opportunity for a then 11 year old back in 1981 or so, and some would argue that even modern adults can learn quite a bit from such an old architecture that is extensible enough to still function with much more modern technologies.
The other thing to consider is that this machine (Apple ][+) was essentially designed from scratch by one person. Steve Wozniak. Thank you Steve.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
You'd be ripped off if you bought IIgs-es at a dime a dozen. A linksys router is about 1500x faster than the IIgs. So, um, unless you're just really looking to win the "slowest, cheapest network" contest, I'm wondering what practical use this is.
Checked my calendar-- its not Apr. 1 anymore.
Well, what's this.. looks like someone has stumbled across some 7 year old webpages!
One should note that the GNO/ME distribution does not include GS/TCP. Indeed try Marinetti if you want to play around with TCP/IP on your GS.
GNO/ME stands for GNO's Not Orca.. named after the Orca shell in which you could use their compiler tools..
Not really worth checking out, unless it brings back that special nostalgia if you're one of the few who actually used this software 10 years ago.
I don't think I saw a link to www.gno.org so there it is, go grab your GNO! You can find download links if you like..
However, instead of simply stopping sales of GNO and letting the software wander into oblivion, I am placing GNO into "freeware" status, and I am also making available all source code to the 2.0.4 version to the public and the development community.
If I understand this correctly, the owner of the source code has fully released it to the community, thereby making this 100% freeware, no conditions. As this doesn't appear to be derived from any other flavour of *NIX, I don't think there's anything stopping anyone doing whatever they choose with it.
Disclaimer: The above comment was made while under the influence of too much coding and not enough sleep.
Now I can setup that anonymous ftp server for my 1 pirated mp3 for people to download! When will someone port KaZaA for me?
Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
GNOME on an apple II? You must think we're fscking stupid or something. No way in hell.
Is it ironic?
The Political Programmer
AFAICT you are right, but I do recall seeing a GPL disclaimer. (At this time, I can't find it.)
-uso.
Dreams, dreams, don't doubt dreams, dreaming children's dreaming dreams. Sailor Moon SS
From the
FAQ:
GNO contains components that originate with a variety of flavors of UNIX. These include 4.3BSD, XINU, and SYSV. It is mostly BSD. As of GNO v2.0.6, GNO has become closer to 4.4BSD. Work is in progress to make it as compliant as possible to POSIX 1003.1 and POSIX 1003.2.
-uso.
Dreams, dreams, don't doubt dreams, dreaming children's dreaming dreams. Sailor Moon SS
"you can use GS/TCP to implement a standard BSD socket interface, allowing you to connect via SLIP, MacIP, and soon PPP on a GNO/ME (GNO Multitasking Environment) UNIX system for the IIgs"
Sorry, but I have no idea what any of that means. Either I'm loosing my touch with IT issue, or there is another level of extreme geekdom that I have never before encountered. Is this kind of stuff relevant in today's IT industry, or is it mealy the electronic masturbation of the great un-shaved?
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated up.
"In case you wanted to do something cool with your fancy little Apple IIgs in the back room"
Well, in that case, I'd rather go to Ninjaforce, download some demos, sit back and enjoy!
By the way, there is an IRC client, too.
If someone were proposing that this continue to be developed as part of a commerical enterprise I'd tell them to take the needle out of their arm.
The point of projects like this one is to have fun and learn skills that can be used for endeavors that have a more practical use.
What better way to learn the ins and outs of a TCP/IP stack than to implement one? What better way to learn about an OS than to write one, even if it is on hardware thats somewhere between having a Bar Mitzvah and being old enough to vote?
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Can your uC play Oregon Trail?
I bet it comes with a free TCP/IP stack too!
For all you kids at home with nothing to do and no Apple IIgs I recommend this fine emulator available at:
http://kegs.sourceforge.net/
Seriously, is there really a need for something like this to happen? At the risk of frowning on something that some guy did "just because he could", does anyone actually use these computers anymore? I deal with alot of users, and the OLDEST machine ive seen in years still being used as an internet capable machine is a 486/66DX. Those are few and far between. Im all for hobbys, (i recently spend a week learning how to program atari games) but is this really front page material? Arent there more pressing issues at hand ?
My earliest programming memories were on Apple II systems writing looping code in Logo or BASIC. In college, I concentrated on theoretical computer science, possibly because the general limits of computational machinery were made obvious to me through those early years on the apple.
Write some code in Visual Basic.NET and the first thing you notice is that you need a 4GB dual Xeon box just to boot the IDE! In a more efficient environment like VS6 or GCC+Emacs you have to write some complex code before you begin to notice performance limitations of the host machine.
I suppose this is analogous to hopping up 1960's muscle cars versus today's ricecars. The muscle cars were simple enough that owners could make meaningful performance upgrades. Modern cars benefit somewhat from a new chip, but most owners just change the bodywork and add lots of wings.
That having been said, I like my TiBook at least as much as I like my old Apple ][.
I *have* a GS, and I don't use it. I emulate one on my PB 5300 (another limping animal that should be put down ;) with Bernie to the Rescue.
With the exception of the pain in the ass of making and managing floppy images (which is infinitely better than trying to nab them off a IIe) it works great. I'm glad that this software is free, but this just illustrates the BS of copyright laws. Unmaintained or un-updated software should lose copyright protection after 10 years AT MOST. This allows dumbasses like me to emulate, or actually *use* the hardware I own.
Like I'm going to go out and buy Karateka any time soon (Don't try to hit the princess, she will smoke your ass like a looter in a riot!).
Seriously, If the publishers need $$$ that bad, keep the trademarks (so someone can release Rescue Raiders II ((Rockstar Games??!)), and dump the software to freeware so assholes like me can play a classic, learn basic, explore and compare the limits of software and hardware of yesteryear and today, and so I can finally find out what I put on the back of those 5.25 floppies.
Oh, and not have to try and explain why Gemstone Warrior was so frickin' creepy-scary, and why the Beagle Brothers kicked ass.
Remember, all the software you use *right now* will still be copyrighted long after you're dead, Apple makes the G69 with OSeX (things will be looser that way, I'm sure) and Bill Gates will either be hooked up to a machine, or *be* a machine (let's hope it runs on Windows either way.
Good example - Cinemaware. Releasing all their old ROMs and images. *FREE* Defender of the Crown anyone?
Re-releasing the games for a new market: Phones, GBA, PDA etc.
Do more of that, or so help me, I'll grab Locksmith 6.0, and Copy II+ 7 and 9 and I'll do it for you, you publish-whores! Put that on a bun and eat it!
Apple IIgs is dying!
Error 407 - No creative sig found
Then the copyright holder should have said this software is in the public domain. That would have meaning (as would licensing under the remarkably liberal new BSD and MIT X11 licenses). The term "freeware" has no legal meaning and is not a license, therefore it cannot be considered free software or open source. The FSF warns against using the word freeware to mean "free software". As things are, it is unclear exactly what the copyright holder(s) were trying to convey which means the software should be regarded as non-free and therefore it would be wise to avoid the software. Here's hoping the copyright holder(s) pick a free software license.
Digital Citizen
I don't think people grasp just how slow the Apple IIgs was.
I, of course, didn't. Middle school for me was defined by the l'il bugger, minus about six months of its power supply choking if I did something excessive like use the floppy drive (800K, and _no_ hard drive).
I have fond memories of flaming people for using ZIP when an obviously superior format, SHK(Shrinkit), was common for the IIgs.
Yeah -- my 2.2mhz speedster had a better algorithm than a PC *giggles*. Right.
Seriously, though -- graphical web browser? For IIgs? GIFS TOOK AN HOUR APIECE TO RENDER, line by godforsaken line...
That being said, did that machine have a bad ass sound synth or what...took like five years for PCs to even come close with the GUS, and a while longer before SB Live became common enough to surpass the synth capabilities of the trusty IIgs...
80's music? You mean MODs?
Oh yeah, ProTERM made for a great Unix dumb terminal...
--Dan
www.doxpara.com
Let the IIGS die.. it was a good machine for it time.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
In a more efficient environment like VS6 or GCC+Emacs..
Come again? I think you've confused Emacs with a usable text editor.
So, in other words, I have a 4GB dual Xeon laptop right here. Gee, thanks! I wonder what I can do with it? =)
[It's actually a P4-1.6 with 512MB RAM)
Ok I owned a IIgs and I was one of the early users of a GNO/ME. The Byteworks made great compilers and 360 made great tools. But that was '86. Now, who f-ing cares. I can pick up a cheap box for under $100 that will kick the butt of my souped up 14 MHz IIgs and runs Linux/[Free|Open|Net]BSD.
Hell a SparcStation IPX is smaller and has a 40 MHz processor. I can get 5 or 10 of them for $100.
I have to agree, this is useless. And I used to be a big IIgs fan, I guess that is what growing up is about - I threw out all my broken toys and bought new ones
The G in Gnome already is for GNU
I have a IIGs, and I'm actually excited about this. It has been collecting dust, and now, I'm going to fire up my 2400 baud adb port modem and 'fly' online in textual 'happy apple' style. Now all we need is a networked multi-player version of Oregon Trail, and I'm happy for the next year!
Speak for yourself.
It's nice to see the IIGS mentioned on Slashdot. As for many others, I'm sure, it was my first introduction to computers -- heck, it WAS my first computer.
I used it quite a lot, from 1987 - 1996. I'm glad to see that development is still continuing. I only wish I could find a nice crisp RGB monitor (as my original one became blurry after years of use) to go with the computer. It's very cool to see that TCP/IP support is now available for these machines. On that note...
Anyone still actively using their IIGS for development/productive work?
The PC Weenies: 11 Years of Online Tech 'Too
Relax, not everything needs to be useful. (Like reading Slashdot...heh.)
Sometime people do things because it geves them pleasure. You remember, fun.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
This project has been around for a while, and every once in a while I think about implimenting it myself just for kicks. The idea of getting my IIgs on the internet with a graphical browser is just too geeky to ignore. I would require some upgrades like a hard disk, more memory and a means of actually connecting it to the internet but it's entirely doable. Donations anyone?
In the mean time I've decided to feature my IIgs itself as the focus for a mini photography project. Come on, it's a beautiful design!
You can find it in the gallery section of my website www.32bitwonder.org
If you can help with putting it on the web, please leave feedback on the site.
-Brad
www.brownsauce.org
This is definately faster!
Webmaster Wanted - Entropic Reactions
Clearly, what these people are trying to do by developing for antiquaited hardware is drive the value up so they can sell theirs on eBay. But I'm on to their underwear-stealing ways!
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
- L.
Compared to vi Emacs is bloatware. But VS.Net developers hold Emacs up as a model of simplicity and efficiency...
If I understand this correctly, the owner of the source code has fully released it to the community, thereby making this 100% freeware, no conditions.
You don't know for sure that the person who did that actually own the unrestricted rights to all the code.
Remember Tilly?
The argument has also been put forth that Apple ][ boot times far exceed that of computers today... I know that Appleworks (the word processing / spreadsheet / etc. program) boots on an Apple ][ in a matter of seconds, whereas modern computers take at least a minute before you can load a word processor and start typing. My dad still uses Appleworks on an Apple ][ mainly for that reason (even though I have a much newer PC in the house for the family).
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
I also spent many, many hours trying to get Marinetti to work. Our campus was wired with both 10baseT and for those without computers, dumb terminals connected via serial cables to the local HP/UX mail server. I had a friend set up PPP on his Linux machine and tried to get Marinetti to work over a telnet session over the serial line, but every time I tried to connect, I got a bouncing apple lockup (equivalent to a blue screen of death). I wanted to write an application or two for it (in assembly), and maybe try to port Lynx to GNO/ME, but I never did succeed in getting Marinetti working. Oh well.
Damn! I wish I had that much time to waste.
Now all we need is a networked multi-player version of Oregon Trail, and I'm happy for the next year!
Why stop there? Wolf 3D was ported to the IIgs.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
FINALLY! I've been waiting for this since 1993 or so!
//gs out of the closet--it's ZIPchipped to a blazing 16Mhz, with 16 phat megabytes of 256x4 DRAMs!
I'm going to have to drag my
GNO/ME was a replacement for the UNIX system that I always wanted back then but couldn't afford (or something like that.) My GS will now take a proud (but kind of slow) place next to my 14 linux machines.
I recently picked up a IIGS ROM 3 because the computer was so ahead of its time (and so I could play again the games on my old 5.25 inch floppies from my ][+). I continue to be amazed by the IIGS and its operating System GS/OS version 6.0.1.
s _r b.html
To give you an example of how ahead of its time this computer was: I am actually netbooting the computer from a Mac Plus running AppleShare File Server 3.0. No disks needed: the IIGS starts up over the network and runs its operating system from the Mac's hard drive. It's certainly not the fastest, but it gives me a 500 MB hard drive for my IIGS.
Information on setting up a netboot network for a IIGS ROM 3 can be found here:
http://www.mandrake.demon.co.uk/Apple/ltalk/iig
Truly geeky stuff.
End of Line
However, gstcp was never released (it was a demonstration for a masters degree, and once the degree was granted, the project was dropped without being released).
Marinetti (search sf.net for it) was a clean-room tcp implementation written from RFCs because the programmer (Richard Bennett) was tired of waiting for gstcp. It was first released in summer of 1997, IIRC.
I think the dates on the gnome announcement and gstcp homepage should have been an indication to the slashdot janitors. If they had bothered to check them.
You are very offensive and not funny at all.
Picking on 2 people who are *dead* and who endured a more painful life than imaginable is beyond comprehension. I bet you thought you were pretty cute while you hid behind your keyboard and typed something clever. I'd like to beat the shit out of you you racist bastard.
The reason many Arab people hate America is because of low life losers like you - you slanderous bigot.
If anyone finds this persons comments amusing they need to question their sense of morality.
When I released the GNO/ME sources, my intention was to allow people to do anything they wanted with it, except sell it. I maintain copyright on the software, so it is not public domain.
.h interface files, and a number of the standalone utilities.
I will never license anything under the GNU Public Virus.
Some of the components of GNO/ME are actually borrowed from BSD and licensed under the BSD license. This is primarily BSD API
No, GNO/ME stands for: GNO's Not ORCA / Multitasking Environment The /ME was key because this was the first and only pre-emptive multitasking software for a IIgs.
Hey.. way to go Apple. You finally got Tcp/IP!!!! Boy O' Boy... the future is unlimited now eh?
Today, the same kid gets a EULA that forbids him to even make a hex dump :(
I can't speak for the grandparent, but in my case my online humor and attitude bear little resemblance to my offline relationship to the world community.
Contrast our approach to that of holding all of one's fear and anger and hostility inside and ultimately blowing yourself up figuratively or literally.
not me
--Less Thinkin', More Drinkin'...
Actually, I think it was a re-creation of the monitor ROM assembly code. I know they lost the original source before they could print it, so you could always try implementing that on a EPROM and seat that sucker on the IIs mobo and get a bugfix or two...
jeez people, it was a freakin' joke. Who would use a 20 year old computer running a odd flavor of unix to host a mission critical app?
This is so lame. Why oh why do people spend countless hours performing stupid mundane projects just so they can get praise from their super-geeky friends?
:-P
This is so sad. I for one am sick and tired of Slashdot posting stupid-a$$ articles about projects NOBODY cares about except for maybe 30 year old virgin adults with 3" thick glasses that live in their parents basement still.
Oh wait! I take it all back! I forgot CmdrTaco was in this group!!!
^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
Stop wasting news space!
- Voxel
Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
Why do software-type people like the GPL so much? It's just gonna put us all out of business if it takes over!!!
Too Much Free Time
Ability to use TCP/IP on 17 year old computer: Done.
Linux Desktop Market share: What, 3%? 4%?
Cure for cancer: Not found.
Reasons anyone should care about this story: 0
Possible value of other things the talent required to do this took: Priceless.
I'd like to know how much time and talent was wasted on this. Are there really THAT many talented-but-unemployed IT professionals out there?
I downloaded the NCSA Mosaic browser and had a wizzy 14.4 modem connection to the net via Delphi or GEnie. In anycase, it was before Compuserve or AOL had a real internet gateway for even email. At the time I thought, "this bandwidth problem is gonna have to change to make this www thing work out." I was graduating high school. GS/OS, maxxed out at 8 MB or RAM (the realworld limit, it had 24 bit addressing). And yes while 640x200 only supported 4 bit color (everything was dithered; it printed out half height, so you didn't get what you saw on screen using AppleWorks GS.) there was a more useful 420x200 that supported hi bit color. You could trick it into doing a 4096 color palate per scan line, and effectivly have photographic images. It was pretty much only good for demos tho. I played Defender of the Crown until my floppies wore out. Then after it was like 8 years old I sold it to some dumb schmuck for $800. It was signed by WOZ. I had an accellerator card that amped it up to something like 6 or 8 Mhz, which made it approach the level of the Mac SE, but in color. You could buy a $50 sound card and have it output stereo 16 voice polyphonic sound from the Ensonic sound chip and input for recording. Plus Apple finially released their Genlock for the apple II, so you could export any video you could gnerate on top of a video signal (it had composite video out built in.) The IIGS was also the first machine from apple to have the platinum color scheme (rather than beige/brown IIe/Macs and the white IIc.) and had the first ADB keyboard/mouse. The SE and Mac II came out the next year with them.
...till the US government imposes export restrictions on that powerful piece of hardware genius, the Apple ][, now that it will be able to do TCP/IP, and now might be seriously considered by vicious terrorists....
Stuff that matters? Definitely Not.
People shape laws. Not the other way around.
Feeding an AC troll, perhaps, but I am compelled by the ridiculous current (1,informative) score: there is no practical use! That's the point.
We use old computers because they remind us of when we were young. I learned 6502 assembly language on an Apple IIe when I was 13 and had one of my programs published in the November 1988 issue of Nybble (one/two-liner contest). _Those_ were the days when we did things because they were fun, not necessarily practical! Nowadays we must suffer with not-so-fun programming to earn a paycheck, and so we enjoy these moments of nostalgia. It may not matter, but it's news for nerds.
There is little to no practical use for a IIGS unless you are working to teach someone low level or even high level programming. There are numerous OS alternatives for the IIGS hardware, there are many compilers and also tools for it, as well it is a great fun entertaining system with loads of software. Yes, there are emulators, and a few are EXCEPTIONAL (sweet16 http://www.sheppyware.net and Bernie II the Rescue) that are really fun and useful. However, to address another angle, the IIGS is highly collectable, not due to some real intrinsic value, but a value that comes with memories and yes some irrational justifications for payment. Yet, for instance, it isn't stupid to buy IIGS at a dime a dozen or so, since the last time I did that I got about 2500 USD worth of resellable cards from them. So, with a return on investment after my gas, time and energy, I saw about a 10000% return on my money. Now, in todays stock markets, where can you say that is easy to do, or can be done legally? And a third irrational point, one that comes with experience of writing drivers for the II when I was a kid. The GOOD OLD DAYS OF COMPUTING are lost, and it is fun and great times to visit back to them, when things were a LOT more simple, shucksters were less abundant (at least obvious and sinisterly overt about it) and getting down to write a FORTH interpreter for the 65x02 systems was doable in a matter of days or weeks. Yes, the IIGS would make a likely poor choice for a router, and a linksys 5 port hub/router can be had for 49 dollars. But honestly, what can or do you really learn from a linksys other than a 192.168.1.1 HTML interface for configuration? Get a IIGS doing the job, and I understand the nuts and bolts of routing pretty well. It is just what your goals are, practicality or actually expanding your understanding of things. The call is yours, I choose to mess around with IIGS hardware and have a blast doing it!