Linux Comes To Afghanistan

What's the Over/Under by leviramsey · 2003-07-14 18:36 · Score: 1

On how long before there's a JonKatz reference?

Re:What's the Over/Under by PD · 2003-07-14 18:38 · Score: 3, Funny

How many bogomips does Talibanux give on a Commodore 64?

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If tits were wings it'd be flying around.

new record by G27+Radio · 2003-07-14 18:39 · Score: 2, Funny

For the first time, 11 people were trained in Linux in Kabul. ...beating their previous record of 10 achieved in 2002.

Re:new record by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-14 18:59 · Score: 1, Funny

For the first time, 11 people were trained in Linux in Kabul.

Followed shortly by a terrorist attack by the former Taliban regime which killed 10 of the 11.

Afghanistan could certainly benefit from LINUX. by banal+avenger · 2003-07-14 18:40 · Score: 5, Insightful

That's interesting that the UN would pick up LINUX support. It's good, but still surprising. LINUX is a great way to start people on the right track to success, free of restrictions from the likes of Microsoft. Instead, they're only limited (freed?) by the GPL.

At any rate, it's definitely beneficial to provide them with a low cost solution to get up-to-date in the tech world.

Re:Afghanistan could certainly benefit from LINUX. by Malcontent · 2003-07-14 19:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

" That's interesting that the UN would pick up LINUX support."

Yes. Especially considering there has not been a public election yet.

Free as in freedom should include elections don't you think?

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War is necrophilia.
Re:Afghanistan could certainly benefit from LINUX. by banal+avenger · 2003-07-14 19:24 · Score: 1

Freedom should also include getting Osama Bin Laden. Or not. He was secondary anyway. We're moving on in our tour... Afghanistan -> Iraq -> (Iran/N. Korea/China). Who's it going to be? Hopefully the next election will get here before the next "conflict."
Re:Afghanistan could certainly benefit from LINUX. by Ringlord · 2003-07-14 20:33 · Score: 1

It should be USA. It's time George W. took a look at his own backyard.
Re:Afghanistan could certainly benefit from LINUX. by screenrc · 2003-07-14 20:58 · Score: 1

I must agree, Linux one of the proper solutions
for Afganistan. But do they still have
electicity over there?
Re:Afghanistan could certainly benefit from LINUX. by helarno · 2003-07-14 21:18 · Score: 4, Informative

The UN is supporting Free/Open Source Software (not just Linux) through a variety of ways. Someone has already posted Netaid's site as a reply. Two others off the top of my head:

1) UNESCO's support of the Free Software portal. You can find it at:
http://www.unesco.org/webworld/portal_freesoft/

2) The UNDP's International Open Source Network found at:
http://www.iosn.net. This portal focuses on promoting Free/Open Source software to policy makers, government officials, etc. I believe there are other regional centers coming up as well.

There's a surprising amount of focus on Free/Open Source software in the UN, though most of it is only in the early stages.
Re:Afghanistan could certainly benefit from LINUX. by rikkards · 2003-07-14 23:02 · Score: 1

What? Canada?
(I can say this I am Canadian and it is a (partial) joke)
Re:Afghanistan could certainly benefit from LINUX. by tsa · 2003-07-14 23:09 · Score: 1

LINUX is a great way to start people on the right track to success.

Yes. Who needs roads, food and all that. Trust in Linux and everything will be OK.

But seriously, here's a country that can learn from the mistake the Western world made (to make yourself almost completely dependant on one incompatible system). Not the fact that Linux is used is important here but the fact that they use a system that can easily be integrated with other computer systems from different companies.

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-- Cheers!
Re:Afghanistan could certainly benefit from LINUX. by leifm · 2003-07-15 01:11 · Score: 1

As an American I hope I am dead before this country falls, cause that's not going to be fun for us Americans.

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"Windows Me offers tremendous reliability and stability improvements..." -- Paul Thurott
Re:Afghanistan could certainly benefit from LINUX. by mango9 · 2003-07-15 01:30 · Score: 1

Some UNDP programs have been promoting Linux in developing countries for nearly ten years e.g. the Sustainable Development Networking Programme which has tailed off now but worked diligently and quietly in some 30 countries. Many organisations came out of this which are still promoting open source. See
http://www.sdnp.undp.org
http://www.sdnp.und p.org/rc/areas/tech/linux/
(Note link to slashdot... and to older technologies)
Re:Afghanistan could certainly benefit from LINUX. by drinkypoo · 2003-07-15 07:01 · Score: 1

It's never too early to start helping people.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

what happened? by defaultXIX · 2003-07-14 18:45 · Score: 1

whats with all the GNAA? anyone else browesing at 0 or -1? I wondered why there were so many comments below my threshold....

Re:what happened? by leviramsey · 2003-07-14 18:50 · Score: 1

A distributed crapflood... I got first non-GNAA post, and I was like the 40th post...
Re:what happened? by Read+Icculus · 2003-07-14 19:51 · Score: 1

That crapflood sucks for the non crap-flooding ACs who could be modded up for making good points. I would bet not as many people will browse at 0.

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Anti-social? My code is just platform-specific.
Re:what happened? by TomGroves · 2003-07-15 03:55 · Score: 1

Yeah, I agree. I browse at 0 but I would up that if crapfloods were always as bad as this article's.

GNAA filter by spacecowboy420 · 2003-07-14 18:47 · Score: 1

I like browsing "raw and uncut" because I do want to see all that is said - I do appreciate a good troll.

This GNAA shit is getting out of hand. Slashdot needs troll filters. Or better yet a crap flood mod that I can exclude from my browsing.

Seriously, a good troll is art, what you dumb fucks are doing is just plain stupid.

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ymmv

Benefits of i18n by GammaTau · 2003-07-14 18:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

It was very nice to read this at the South Asia IT mailing list (the one linked in the main story).

So.. yep,,, there's work being done. There're also KDE and GNOME development teams in Farsi, which is very close to Dari- the langugae of Afghanistan. Pashto is also similar. There was a demo of Frasi KDE while I was in Kabul and it has also generated some interests.

Good localization is really important for the non-western world. I really respect the GNOME and KDE projects for developing open framework that allows this with reasonable effort.

Re:Benefits of i18n by Kosi · 2003-07-14 20:04 · Score: 1

Good localization is really important for the non-western world.

What about learning a foreign language that's widely used as English? Nearly all software should be available in english.

I could go nuts when I see how many ressources are wasted into translation instead of removing the annoying bugs! (btw, I am a native German speaker, not English. But I don't whine around I want everything in German!)

Also, I'm still waiting for an explanation for the idiocy to put the text of a software somewhere else than in a simple to replace text file than mix it between the code.
Re:Benefits of i18n by GammaTau · 2003-07-14 20:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

Also, I'm still waiting for an explanation for the idiocy to put the text of a software somewhere else than in a simple to replace text file than mix it between the code.

Err, I think the GNOME and KDE projects do it exactly in the non-idiotic way. As far as I know, they can be translated by editing a simple text file. That means that people other than the actual developers can do the translation so very little developer time is wasted on that.

By the way, translating software to your own language (if it's something else than English) is a good way to offer volunteer support for your favorite piece of software even if you didn't know how to write code. It's something non-technical people can do.
Re:Benefits of i18n by Daengbo · 2003-07-14 21:00 · Score: 1

Many of us live in countries not as developed as Germany. The cost to do translation is a grain of sand compared to the desert of the cost of teching English to a nation. KDE and Gnome are good for translation, but sometimes still suffer problems with 8 and 16 bit character sets.

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Put identity in the browser.

Great... by Toasty16 · 2003-07-14 18:52 · Score: 2, Funny

...the UN teaches a handful of Afghanis some Linux and the first thing they do is swamp /. with GNAA posts. There is no limit to the wonders of technology!

Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by hughk · 2003-07-14 18:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

if they manage to get their act together. One of the good points about Former Soviet Countries was that education was relatively good. It is only in the last 10 years or so that things have fallen behind.

If you go to the surrounding coutries such as Uzbekistan and Pakistan (even Iran), they have quite a good infrastructure. It is just Afghanistan that has been left behind because of the war.

Why Linux, well getting aid money to buy software isn't so hard. Unfortunately, it isn't going to pay for the updates. WIth Linux, you at least have a chance of ensuring your stuff is well maintained. At least in Pakistan and Uzbekistan (I worked there, so I know), you can buy Win2K3 or XP for a couple of dollars, but you can't really use aid money for pirated software.

In palces like that, the replacement cycle for PCs lasts a long time. Three years ago, I was still seeing 486s in Uzbekistan under Win95. The ability of Linux to last longer with the same hardware is definitely an advantage.

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See my journal, I write things there

Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by Snoopy77 · 2003-07-14 19:06 · Score: 1

For someone who lived and worked in the area you would think that they would know which countries were and were not former Soviet states.

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"She's a West Texas girl, just like me" - G.W Bush Iraqis
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by foonf · 2003-07-14 19:10 · Score: 5, Informative

Afghanistan is not a "former Soviet Country", really, although it was under a Soviet-backed government for a time. It never had the state-supported education and health-care infrastructure that developed in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, and even North Korea. The American-backed guerilla campaign against the government began almost as soon as the communists took power (and six months before the Soviet invasion), and any efforts they might have made to reorganize the society were made difficult by the almost continual state of war after 1979. So it is really the last 25 years that they have been "falling behind", and things were not amazingly great before then.

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"(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by child_of_mercy · 2003-07-14 19:34 · Score: 1

former communist then (albeit nominally), it was behind the iron curtain, being a tad pedantic on that one my friend.

--
'There is a Light that never goes out.'
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by broeman · 2003-07-14 19:42 · Score: 3, Interesting

and because of this, Afghanistan is only about 40% of the original country. The areas the Sovjet Union conquered (I can't spell!) became other "stans": Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, that indeed where under Sovjet rule until the creation of the Rusian Federation (which I think they are not member of). Afghanistan had (and probably still have) a high culture, which was developed before the CIA vs. KGB coldwar. Their connection to Pakistan today is not to forget either, and many (really many) afghan emigrants around the world are quite high educated.

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(yes this can be compared with sex)
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by hughk · 2003-07-14 22:47 · Score: 1

The exact status of Afghanistan is somewhat debatable, technically it was independendent (but so was Mongolia) but for a time at least, it was closer to the USSR than the Warsaw-pact countries.

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See my journal, I write things there
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by hughk · 2003-07-14 23:06 · Score: 1

I beg to differ, they certainly had a good education system in the eighties. One of my interpreters in Uz had worked there for a while and certainly it wasn't so bad in Kabul. Many of the outlying places had problems (especially to the south and west, corresponding to the Pakistan and Iranian border areas).

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See my journal, I write things there
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by hughk · 2003-07-14 23:16 · Score: 1

Uzbekistan was carved out in the early twenties by Soviet geographers along with Turkmenistan and Tajikistan. In reality, there are a number of peoples in the area, and whilst there are definite ethnic groups, who ended up where had little to do with the reality. This one reason why Afghanistan is so complicated. Yes, there was a historical kingdom, but the people were from all over.

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See my journal, I write things there
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by Zoop · 2003-07-15 01:17 · Score: 1

Actually most of the 'stans were conquered, occupied, and made states by the Russians prior to the Soviet Union. They were essentially vassal states, and incorporating them into the Soviet Union just openly acknowledged what had been true previously.

Google for Britain, Russia, and "The Great Game" in the 19th century. Very interesting stuff.
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by jo42 · 2003-07-15 02:15 · Score: 1

And just what could their contribution to the global economy be? More rocks? Don't we already have enough rock and sand farmers in the middle east?
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by Hard_Code · 2003-07-15 02:32 · Score: 1

Unfortunately, it seems that the natural resource profile of Afghanistan breaks down like this:

* 70% dirt
* 10% rock
* 8% rubble
* 5% land mines
* 5% unexploded ordinance
* 2% flaming automobile hulls

Fortunately, they have the market cornered on:

* 100% newly liberated country which can provide pipeline access between caspian and arabian seas

--

It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by broeman · 2003-07-15 03:03 · Score: 1

Thanks for the info, what I mean is that Russia/Soviet always were interested in the region, and that Afghanistan is full of mixtures, which Russia wanted to divide into cultures (to control them easier, so they could conquer the Indian Sea and propably India (+Pakistan) itself) giving them the right to have ships and troops in that area.

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(yes this can be compared with sex)
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by Bourbonium · 2003-07-15 09:26 · Score: 1

While you are correct that Afghanistan was never officially one of the Soviet Socialist Republics, it did suffer under Soviet domination for a time, until the Mujahideen rebels defeated the USSR forces.

One of my IT consulting clients is a small businessman from Afghanistan who fled the country with his family shortly after the Soviets invaded. He says Afghanistan in the 1970s was just as developed as neighboring countries like Iran and Pakistan. Kabul in those days was as modern a city as Tehran or Karachi. He earned his degree in Electrical Engineering from the University of Kabul and now owns a thriving business selling and supporting Savin/Ricoh multifunction office technology. While he still hopes to return to his home someday, he says he's pretty pleased with life here in the States and this is now where he calls home.
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by Snoopy77 · 2003-07-15 10:37 · Score: 1

And guess what ... East Germany, Poland, etc. were not part of the Soviet Union either!

--
"She's a West Texas girl, just like me" - G.W Bush Iraqis
Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... by hughk · 2003-07-15 19:21 · Score: 1

Tell that to Mr Vlad Putin. He was the KGB chief for the DDR. No, the Warsaw pact countries were essentially satellite governments with some (limited) rights of their own. Central Asia was different. Until the middle of the last century, the British were in India/Pakitsan and the Sviets came down to Uzbekistan. Afghanistan acted as a buffer state. It was reasonably independent (although packed with spies from both sides) and the positive side of Islamic culture could flourish. In 1979, a communist revolt forced the the old government out but the new one was disliked (mostly because they ignored local leaders). They then invited the Soviets in to help prop up their new government. After that, the government their lost any semblence of independence. A proxy war then broke out with the CIA and MI6 sending in 'military advisers' and weapons through Pakistan. The Iranians also sponsored some groups on the West. Kabul became essentially a Soviet military colony but was relatively safe. The northern border with Uzbekistan became quite open, but the south was off limits.

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See my journal, I write things there

Language Support by patch-rustem · 2003-07-14 18:54 · Score: 1

Linux wins again.
Seriously though there's even a Farsi version of Knoppix.

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Karma: Bad due to google bombing - Robert Watkins woz 'ere.

Re:Jesus. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-14 18:58 · Score: 1, Funny

Word! This thread got bend over hard by the GNAA. They are just too damn leet. I ph34r!

Re:Jesus. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-14 19:03 · Score: 1, Informative

Don't blaspheme. . .
and just ignore anonymous cowards.
esay isn't it.

Weyhey! by Pinguu · 2003-07-14 19:07 · Score: 1, Funny

For the first time, 11 people were trained in Linux in Kabul.
Unfortunatly over 1000 have already been trained in Windows :/

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The thing is... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-14 19:09 · Score: 2, Funny

You can't really train for Linux.

Linux happens.

Re:The thing is... by broeman · 2003-07-14 19:44 · Score: 1

so true (uhm, I mean: no comment!)

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(yes this can be compared with sex)

Re:So do we have to start calling them GNU/Taliban by Homology · 2003-07-14 19:11 · Score: 1

May I suggest that you ease a little on the intake of Afgani opium?

Re:Afgani Tech Sector by martingunnarsson · 2003-07-14 19:14 · Score: 2, Insightful

Whatever happened to that "all humans are equal"-thing...

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Martin

Re:DON'T WASTE MOD POINTS ON THIS GNAA SPAMMER by ultrapenguin · 2003-07-14 19:14 · Score: 1

I do believe they already implemented the "image with random letters inside" and make you type the word, when you sign up.

Re:Afgani Tech Sector by felonious · 2003-07-14 19:19 · Score: 1

If all humans are equal then why do some have it all and some have nothing at all? Certainly the ones with everything should help the have nots right?

WRONG...they could give a shit

Only on a cellular level are we even close to being equal but if you factor in the genetic mutants and such there is nothing that makes us all equal. If anything we are the antithesis of your entire statement personified to the max.

In a prefect worl we are all equals.

It just so happens this world isn't perfect...

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You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.

Re:Jesus. by felonious · 2003-07-14 19:21 · Score: 1

WTF is GNAA? I am half serious, half troll, and the other 22% is humor...

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You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.

Re:So do we have to start calling them GNU/Taliban by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-14 19:22 · Score: 1, Funny

Richard "Muad'dib" Stallman could not be reached for comment.

Cause and effect by Compact+Dick · 2003-07-14 19:27 · Score: 4, Funny

For the first time, 11 people were trained in Linux in Kabul.

...who promptly unleashed a distributed GNAA crapflood attack on a popular geek website, Slahdot.

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Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]

Re:Cause and effect by bersl2 · 2003-07-15 05:41 · Score: 1

For the first time, 11 people were trained in Linux in Kabul.

Excuse me, but isn't that supposed to be GNAA/Linux?

This is just an intelligence move by the CIA by Sagarian · 2003-07-14 19:31 · Score: 4, Funny

so they can set up a distributed worm that searches for /bin/laden

Next On Slashdot... by MixMiesterT · 2003-07-14 19:34 · Score: 5, Funny

SCO sues Afganistan!

Re:Next On Slashdot... by edunbar93 · 2003-07-14 20:56 · Score: 2, Funny

SCO sues Afganistan...

Into the stone age!

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"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Re:Next On Slashdot... by ghum · 2003-07-14 21:52 · Score: 1

Afghanistan did withstand Britain many years; they withstood Soviet Union many years; they survived Taliban; they even survived US military attacks.

Do you think they would fear SCO?

Re:What does Jon Katz have to say about this? by mirko · 2003-07-14 19:35 · Score: 1

Actually, that would rather be Lunix which is a c64 port of Linux...

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Trolling using another account since 2005.

Linux perfect for further development.. Iraq also? by Groote+Ka · 2003-07-14 19:35 · Score: 4, Interesting

IMHO, this is a good start. Not only from a cost point of view it's a good idea to provide third world countries with Linux. The learning effect of tinkering with the (open) source provides a wonderful learning opportunity for the folks out there.

Next question is what is going to happen in Iraq. Will Linux be distributed or have closed source software giants learned from this part of development and are the now lobbying with 'The Authority' to have Windows deployed all over Iraq?

Netaid by rf0 · 2003-07-14 19:36 · Score: 5, Informative

The UN actuall postivly encourage it. Via Netaid the UN setup a group of voulenteers who provide OSS based advice on people out in the field. Its worth looking over there just to see what you can offer

Rus

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Cheap UK and US VPS

Re:I've got a new term for you by felonious · 2003-07-14 19:39 · Score: 1

ADS? Come on can't you do better than that?
Absolute dick shit?

I'm just so misunderstood...

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You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.

Why Linux? Some thought on possible reasons. by WegianWarrior · 2003-07-14 19:47 · Score: 5, Insightful

Or even, why Open Source Software? I can see several possible reasons for the particular choice of operatingsystem they have picked to train the afgans in.

Linux is essesially free off charge (if you pick the right distros), which means that the UN and the afgan goverment can spend their money on other things than buying lisences for the OS we all love to hate.

Linux (and most other OSS) are not tied to a particular country of origin. Face it folks, both OS X, the various flavours of Windows and many of the commercial *nix belong to corpetations based in the US, and the US has managed to make itself less than popular with the UN lately.

You can still get support for distrebutions of Linux that can and will run on older machines, like 386s and 486s. Thus it is possible to run the infrastructure on the hardware that is already present in the country, instead of forcing them to invest in the latest and greatest from Intel or AMD.

Stability may be an issue. Linux has a reputation for beeing more stabel than a certain other OS, and it is certainly less likely to catch a virus. Thus money can be saved on support.

Overall, I think the monetary considerations are the most important here - while the chance to kick the US on the leg may be a (happy) coincidence. And off course, the other question is; Do MicroSoft or Apple even provide a local flavour of their operatingsystems?

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Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.

Re:Why Linux? Some thought on possible reasons. by Oggust · 2003-07-14 20:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

Also, it's actually possible to get linux into the country without violating any EULAs. Pretty much every piece of commercial software I've seen have that little bit about how you're not allowed to export it into any of the T7 countries or afghanistan. (some of them say "taliban controlled areas", so I guess those are OK)
They should of course change now, but many of them still contain afghanistan.
/August

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"An object declared as type _Bool is large enough to store the values 0 and 1." -- 6.1.2.5, C99 standard.
Re:Why Linux? Some thought on possible reasons. by edunbar93 · 2003-07-14 21:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

Or maybe, just maybe, it's a unix-like operating system that works wonders for building infrastructure?

Using it to control and automate things like power stations and fresh water reservoirs, for instance.

Not to mention banks.

Things that were being done 20 years ago in the US by big iron mainframes that cost $180,000, plus $10,000 for the OS itself, which can now be outdone many times over by systems costing $300 and $0 for the OS.

There's little or no need to use hardware as crufty as a 486 anymore, when you can get a system a cheap as this.

Things in developing countries are typically done on the cheap, but are often newer technology than the legacy systems Americans continue to use (because it was state of the art years ago and would cost too much to bring back up to the state of the art again).

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"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Re:Why Linux? Some thought on possible reasons. by ngyahloon · 2003-07-15 01:29 · Score: 1

The posibility of developing people who already hate US to hate microsoft will most likely result in more attacks on M$ in the near future

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Carpe Diem: Seize The Day!
Re:Why Linux? Some thought on possible reasons. by Rinikusu · 2003-07-15 02:39 · Score: 1

Actually, walk down the streets on any given garbage night and you can find all sorts of perfectly "usable" machines for gratis. Considering that we're looking at ways to dispose of those machines, I'm sure that Afghanistan and other rebuilding countries could put them to good use (what good is QuakeIII when you don't have reliable electricity? Build the infrastructure first, the entertainment/hobby aspect comes later). Sure, $300 is cheap (but how much to ship to Afghanistan?), but consider that you can ship a whole pallet-load of used/old machines for less and suddenly you free up $300.

Also, some of these guys just finished training. Many may not have extensive hardware troubleshooting knowledge (I didn't RTFA, sorry. :( ), so handing them a pallet-load of questionable computers and under the guidance of a veteran tech could prove invaluable for "kick-starting" their hardware troubleshooting skills. I found that when I did telephone tech support that the odd times that I was allowed to help the customer, I learned so much because you just get so many problems thrown at you in a short amount of time. If you're a good tech, you learn to fix problems. You just can't get that kind of experience dorking with just your computer at home (hence, the typical "My computer doesn't have that problem so I can't help you" responses you get on a lot of tech forums.. Not to mention the "You should use another distro" jerks).

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If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai

It's a good start... by jromz03 · 2003-07-14 19:54 · Score: 1, Interesting

... for them to learn IT and what better way than through Linux. Maybe in the future we will see Afgani people posting here on /.

Things can only look up for them.

Re:Jesus. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-14 19:55 · Score: 1, Insightful

They are just too damn leet

script kiddies using many different proxies to post crap are not leet, they are just stupid script kiddies.

UN Webpage or Geocities Pagebuilder? by Culturejammer · 2003-07-14 20:04 · Score: 1

How about we get some web developers over there, geez...

Re:Afgani Tech Sector by Kosi · 2003-07-14 20:12 · Score: 1

I can tell you: It's fucked up, GWB declared the americans more equal than anyone else.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA... by raehl · 2003-07-14 20:14 · Score: 1, Funny

I've got nothing. Nevermind.

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paintball

Yeah but... by jeeryg_flashaccess · 2003-07-14 20:14 · Score: 5, Funny

...a press release from Microsoft cleared up many pre-war allegations. Most interesting was the following:

"This just proves that no WMA will be found in Iraq."

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Life is like pants... fit in or you don't fit in.

Troll? by Zemran · 2003-07-14 20:33 · Score: 1

I sometimes find it hard to accept that otherwise intelligent people can see a good bit of humour as a troll. I was considering writing a longer version in the same vein myself as I see a parallel between the Linux zealots and the muslim zealots. Yet people here put this down in the same light as the GNAA crap. No wonder so many resort to rubbish like that if good comment is treated in this way.

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I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.

Web Server and O/S by chris_sawtell · 2003-07-14 21:25 · Score: 1

Netcraft says:-

The site www.undp.org.af is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 behind a computer running Solaris 8.

What a pity!

Re:Linux perfect for further development.. Iraq al by edunbar93 · 2003-07-14 21:31 · Score: 1

lobbying with 'The Authority' to have Windows deployed all over Iraq?

I think that it's absolutely essential to have Windows deployed all over Iraq.

So many windows were broken during the war, and now there's a glass shortage there. Windows to the people! Keep the blowing sand out of homes!

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"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert

A message from Kabul by stud9920 · 2003-07-14 22:09 · Score: 1

A message from Kabul

Re:What does Jon Katz have to say about this? by stud9920 · 2003-07-14 22:12 · Score: 1

It's not a port of Linux. It has no connection whatsover with the Linux codebase.

That's Slashdot by nzyank · 2003-07-14 22:17 · Score: 1

You're assuming that the people here are otherwise intelligent. Get used to it. Say good things about Linux and you're insightful, say something good about Windows and you're flamebaiting or trolling. Say something stupid and you're insightful. Say something funny as hell like this guy did and you're trolling. My kharma's gone from positve to bad and back to positive. Now I'm working on the bad kharma again. So easy to manipulate these people. That's about all that keeps me coming back here now.

Why a pity? by nzyank · 2003-07-14 22:26 · Score: 1

Solaris isn't that bad.

Re:What? by lee7guy · 2003-07-14 23:06 · Score: 1

Not to mention their unsuccessful, but linux capable windows/dos based PC series. The one on which they blew all the money which should have been put to better use by marketing/improving the Amiga series.

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Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam

I thought Afghnistanistan already had Linux... by Spunk · 2003-07-14 23:08 · Score: 2, Informative

Jon Katz wouldn't lie to us!

Compatible, eh? by TrollBridge · 2003-07-14 23:40 · Score: 1

"Not the fact that Linux is used is important here but the fact that they use a system that can easily be integrated with other computer systems from different companies. "

...unless that company is Microsoft.

--
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.

Hello from Junis! by Reservoir+Penguin · 2003-07-15 00:21 · Score: 1

Junis saYS everything is going well, he's really enjoying his new rights that americans brought, including vodka, awsome western music and treating women as sex objects (no more burkas!!) Please contact me if you want to help Hunis with purchase of a new computer so he can too join the linux revolution in Afganistan!

--
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil

Kabul Linux Textbooks by skvngrx · 2003-07-15 00:39 · Score: 1

ClusterKnoppix for Dummies

Hax0r Y0ur xBOx

Software and Internet Law (2nd Ed. covering SCO)

we are doomed by bongoras · 2003-07-15 00:39 · Score: 1

Ahmed, the infidels will surely perish at the hands of our Beowulf Cluster now!

Windows training by Zemran · 2003-07-15 00:48 · Score: 1

while i9 do
{reboot;
if computer_works exit;
i=i+1}

beat_user_for_changing_screen_saver_to_blue_scre en ...;

--
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.

Re:Linux perfect for further development.. Iraq al by Groote+Ka · 2003-07-15 01:05 · Score: 1

Well, at least they were no third world country. Afghanistan was a highly developped country, untill the Taliban came along (and the Russians did their part of destruction as well, but to a minor extend). Regarding the current state of the country, I think the classification of third world country is under the current circumstances correct for Afghanistan.

For Iraq, it is questionable, as development varies a lot over the country, just like with India. The latter country qualifies as third world in a lot of cases. Not by the US, but by themselves to get cost cuts at for example the WIPO. Besides that, they are not bound by all GATT and TRIPs regulations.

With respect to your statement on American politics: I am a European and do not now all the nuts and bolts of the US politics. However, quite some documentaries have been broadcasted about the already very old plan of Donald R. and his pal Wolfowitz. It's about the oil, stupid, not about the looks. And well... "don't think like them" will have played a role as well.

Going back to the topic again from this part: I wonder when Steve Ballmer will visit Iraq and Paul Bremer, in case he hasn't already been there.

Re:DON'T WASTE MOD POINTS ON THIS GNAA SPAMMER by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-15 01:08 · Score: 1, Funny

Blind people would love it.

Re:Afgani Tech Sector by fusion812 · 2003-07-15 01:19 · Score: 1

It went out slighty before 2.2

How long before ... by Blitzshlag · 2003-07-15 01:44 · Score: 1

The remaining 5 software jobs in the US get outsourced to Afganistan?

I didn't know... by DChristensen · 2003-07-15 02:02 · Score: 1

Linux had been ported to Jon Katz's boy's C64. Impressive...

--

--
Mac OS X--Unix without the assholes^Whassles.

Linux comes to afghanistan...... by pauly_thumbs · 2003-07-15 02:22 · Score: 1

....Taliban surrenders after 3 replies to questions : RTFM n00b l4merz

What about nearly-free hardware to match? by frostman · 2003-07-15 02:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

I love the idea of propagating Linux and other free software in poor areas.

But I wonder what the options are for extremely-low-cost hardware to match?

If you consider that there's a lot of gov't bureaucratic infrastructure to build up, and not much public (international) money to support it, Linux et al are the obvious answer. Linux experts volunteering to do training are the next logical component.

How cheap could decent computers be bought to round out the picture?

I don't mean as in "Dell, give us freebies." I mean, could we get together good cheap PCs for US$100 including shipping? Or US$???howmany? What if you bought in Taiwan?

I'd love to see some charity/not-too-corrupt-NGO make a website where you could buy a computer for the department of your choice in the poor country of your choice. You could opt to keep in touch with its users as well, if there's a common language between you. Dellpaqarcdbmitsu and the like would of coure be welcome to help.

Anybody seen such a thing yet?

--

This Like That - fun with words!

More training needed, Batman! by twitter · 2003-07-15 03:03 · Score: 1

From the UNDP page:

"!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN" "hmpro6.dtd""

"html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40""

From the Netaid page:

Patented code? Oh well, at least they are running Linux. www.undp.org.af is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 behind a computer running Solaris 8. . Nothing says backward like Microsoft. Netaid and the spirit of the UNDP are encouraging. Knowledge penetrates where formerly there was naught but binary CDs! Who knows, now they are not Taliban Occupied, they might even get mirror sites.

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Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

SCO's going to love the BBC's take on this by Rogerborg · 2003-07-15 04:05 · Score: 1

"Linux, built upon the venerable Unix operating system, is the creation of Linus Torvalds"

So the OS is linux (not KDE/GNOME/X/GNU/Linux), and it's a rip off of Unix. That should push RMS's blood pressure a bit higher, and get the SCO lawyers rubbing their paws in glee. It's hard to refute their FUD when your boss has just read the BBC and seen this. "But linux must be ripping off Unix! The BBC couldn't publish it if it wasn't true!". Oh dear.

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If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.

ok, how about moving bits around? radio! by drwho · 2003-07-15 04:07 · Score: 1

In addition to the lack of information systems infrastructure, and more importantly, there is a lack of communications infrastructure. While there's no doubt that some big company (Worldcom?) who is friends of the Bush2 administration (like Halliburton) will get a multi-billion dollar contract to build a fiber network some time in the next couple of years, what does afganistan do RIGHT NOW?

Thomas Sailor wrote 'soundmodem' drivers for linux years back. These, used with other modules such as AX.25, allow for a medium distance (up to 200 miles) but low speed (9600 bps half duplex) link for CHEAP. An old Pentium 90 system is free in the US, so if they can be carted to afganistan cheaply, cost is no problem. VHF/UHF radio gear can be junked old Motorola (and other mfgrs) commercial/police radios which are reliable and available for almost nothing in the US, again the problem is carting the to afganistan. Antennas can be made out of wire.

of course I can't neglect 802.11b, as the throughput is much higher. But the distance is lower, and putting amplifiers and large antennas on 802.11b gear, and getting antennas at a decent height and aimed correctly, makes it more ambitious a project. But the great thing with 802.11b is you could have many VoIP telephone conversations going on at the same time.

The largest problem, as I see it, is power. I don't know what the electrical situation is there but I am sure it is pretty bad. I suppose there could be solar and wind power, but photovoltaic cells in particular are expensive and very likely to be stolen. Maybe just wind power then, made from junked automobile alternators. And bicycle power for an emergency.

Yeah, we can rebuild Afganistan. Now, how about Buffalo?

Re:ok, how about moving bits around? radio! by ZPO · 2003-07-15 08:31 · Score: 1

More than likely you'll see solutions coming in stages.

1 - Very fragile and formative stage with various networks deployed by US organizations (civil and military) and international NGOs

-- HF radio networks (Voice and PACTOR/SITO)
-- Data modem use in areas that have a semi-working telephone system and some surviving wirelines

This is the system that will be the springboard for further development

2 - Initial efforts at restoring the PSTN.

-- Installing/repairing satellite ground stations for international commercial connectivity
-- A few international cable routes coming back on-line
-- Kabul and a couple other cities get some primary telephone exchanges rebuilt
-- Some type of national microwave network get s started up. Probably digital
-- Initial wireline data at decent speeds

This will leave large areas of the country without service and you'll see the HF/VHF networks pushing out towards the fringes. The wireline dedicated data network that starts here will be conceived as a small project and be horrendously overloaded and more popular than ever imagined.

3 - The initial real national infrastructure

-- Fiber routes are laid along road routes connecting major cities as the roads are rebuilt. (hopefully they can do all the rip/tear at one time)
-- Microwave routes start heading out to the less populated areas.
-- Cellular networks start getting rebuilt and offer more than regional connectivity.
-- Someone realizes the data network needs to be rethought and rebuilt ......................

It goes on from there. I hope we don't see any national level patchwork of consumer grade equipment. While an interesting hobby project these folks need a real national communications infrastructure. Once that is in place you'll start seeing the less adventurous NGOs move in.

bah by rocnar · 2003-07-15 04:17 · Score: 1

They were doing just fine with the Commodore 64s they had stashed away!

It seems to me.. by caveat · 2003-07-15 04:17 · Score: 1

Afghanistan needs Linux right now the way Apu needs banana bread:

OUTDOORS - STREET CORNER, KABUL. A MERCHANT is standing in front of a bombed-out store while a GEEK shows off the Linux laptop he has brought over.
------

GEEK: I noticed you had your hands full with this devastation...so I put together this rad Linux system!
MERCHANT: Oh Hallelujah! Our problems are solved, we have Linux!
:::
GEEK: Well..maybe you should get an assistant..
MERCHANT: And what would I pay him with, Linux? Sorry, sorry, it's just that I haven't slept in days, and i'm running out of money and ...LINUX? What the hell were you thinking? Linux... Apologize, apologize again. As a token of forgiveness, please take this baby.

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Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley

first bombs, and now this.... by thegnu · 2003-07-15 04:29 · Score: 1

i feel sorry for all the innocent afghanis who had to live through the US dropping bombs on them, now bill gates. i don't know if bombs are worse, or billions of shiny windows xp home cds.

without licenses, of course. you think bill's stupid?

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Please stop stalking me, bro.

Relatedely.... by marebri · 2003-07-15 05:15 · Score: 2, Informative

Developing countries (e.g. in Africa) are hardly ever mentioned as opportunities for growth in Linux usage.But they are, I think, some of Open Source's best opportunities.

Hardly anything is computerized there (in govt.) and when it is, huge and outdated mainframes are used. In many countries, the next few years are likely to see a massive expansion in govt. computer systems. Its up to the few of us Linux users in those coutries to tout to our govts. the benefits of open source and Linux in particular.

There should be a number of ways to do this, I can think of one that might be done while making a buck or two... Establishing companies that provide open source solutions to govts.and others.

All in all, I welcome this latest development in Afghanistan, and I hope that other low-tech. developing coutries will go in this directions as they computerize.

Re:Afgani Tech Sector by felonious · 2003-07-15 05:35 · Score: 1

Well if someone doesn't believe in God then what's the case? I don't agree with it being the goverment's job to see that a person is successful. It's up to the person. What you are saying just reminds me of socialism and lack of individual responsibility for making the best out of their life.

Most successful people have their heads so high in the clouds that they wouldn't help anyone no matter what the situation.

--
You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.

Re:Afgani Tech Sector by felonious · 2003-07-15 05:47 · Score: 1

It's not a terrible world view. It's a realistic world view. When you say, "This is perhaps because when humans work together and share a system of morality, it benefits them collectively." that much is true but in the real world it's not realistic. We do not live in a state of nirvana nor do we live in a world where people give a damn about strangers. That's just the facts no matter how sad it is.

This world was built upon survival of the fittest and that usually happens at the weaker person's expense. If someone were to tip toe through life while not wanting to hurt or offend another then we would be no where in terms of productivity and advances in all facets of life.

When I was referring to mutants I actually meant retarded, cripled, and such. I'm tired of political correctness just so another's feelings aren't hurt. Retarded means slow so just because you or someone else doesn't like the term doesn't mean I can't use it. Yes I could be maimed, cripled, etc. and end up that way but if I was I don't think I'd comprehend much on an intellectual level so call me what you may. Words are just that...words. Nothing more and nothing less. Feel free to point and laugh if I were to ever end up in bad starights because I don't nor will I ever give a damn what someone thinks of me. I live my life full of brutal honesty and I don't concern myself with what other think of me. I do have plenty of friends and family who respect that about me.

P.S. I never said "mutants, the retarded, or the diseased" are bad. They are all human like you and I just not as lucky. I have empathy for them and if I can help them I do. I'm not calling them names only referring to them in an honest manner.

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You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.

Oh Great... by Eric+Damron · 2003-07-15 05:56 · Score: 1

That's what we need. Linux associated with training camps in Afghanistan!

In the News Today: Ashcroft had the entire Linux community rounded up and held at an undisclosed location. When asked why they are being held he remarked "These are enemy combatants that have training camps in Afghanistan and are going under a new code name. Linux! We are still trying to locate their leader who calls himself Tux"

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The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!

7-UP of LINUX. by 5ynPhL00d · 2003-07-15 11:04 · Score: 1

That's interesting that the UN would pick up LINUX support. It's good, but still surprising. LINUX is a great way to start people on the right track to success, free of restrictions from the likes of Microsoft. Instead, they're only limited (freed?) by the GPL.

At any rate, it's definitely beneficial to provide them with a low cost solution to get up-to-date in the tech world. You haven't lived on Slashdot until you have abused the moderation system because it is imperfect.

I hear that the UN has their own distro. UNLINUX...wah wah wah....

Re:Afgani Tech Sector by felonious · 2003-07-15 12:00 · Score: 1

Well I think you've misunderstood most of what I've said. I summer up what I had previously said by saying I am brutally honest but I also have empathy. You almost acuse me of having genocidal thoughts but how can one think in that manner and still have empathy? I'm sure there are cases of that happening but I for one do not fit that stereotype.

I also stated that I try to help others as much as I can but I will not lower myself to speaking in the politcal correct manner that some are out to convert the world to. Political correctness is on the same level as ebonics and ebonics has long since been dismissed.

One of the other points I made was if you stop to help those who refuse to help themselves then you are only punishing yourself. If I see someone panhandling I don't give them shit. I used to until I learned more about them. To me helping the homeless isn't about giving money to panhandlers so they can get drunk and further their cause of self loathing. I buy and donate food during the holidays for these people. That is helping and that is helping your fellow man...in my off time:D

I used to spend a lot of time trying to help and care more but it was usually met with thanklessness and/or ambivalence. I wasn't looking for mass media coverage of what I did but seeing the person you are helping not give a shit is bullshit. If they can't appreciate it then fuck 'em...I don't care. Those who do appreciate then they'll get more help from me...the rest are dead to me.

If you want a current cesspool of ignorance then just visit beautiful India and it's Caste System. Unless it's recently changed if you're born a peasant you stay one for life and no one cares. Funny how our tech sector is gravitating towards India yet I doubt the American companies involved aren't doing anything to better the lives of the peasants...not even in their off time.

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You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.

Wow by ShoeHead · 2003-07-15 19:34 · Score: 1

I wish I could put everyone who's posted on this topic as a foe. What is wrong with you people?

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