Slashdot Mirror
Kroupware Komplete
sorinm writes "The three companies behind the Kroupware Project (Erfrakon, Intevation and Klarälvdalens Datakonsult) announced its successful completion today. This new groupware approach using only Free Software is now available in stable versions under the Kolab brand name. Commercial support on an individual basis is already offered with further support options to come."
It seems that /. folk are constantly talking about the need for a FOSS collaboration thingy, and this seems like it should be it. So, for all you folks who are always writing in telling how "Exchange is so great...blah", it seems like this is the answer.
How well does it do compared to EX-change?
IOW: is it a "Komplete" software product, or the usual 90% GNU solution?
Does anybody care to write a compairison feature and integration wise?
anyway? When I see the word "kroup" I can't help but imagine someone saying, "Mandy just contracted a case of kroups" or "Gee, get your kroup off my side of the table."
OK, so the KDE project started Kontact, which merges KMail, KOrganizer, KNotes, and KAddressBook. I was just at the Kontact web site and it doesn't mention Kolab. My thought was that Kroupware was supposed to merge at some point with Kontact, is this true? But Kolab screenshots look different than Kontact's. Is this going into KDE?
http://kolab.kde.org/
http://kontact.kde.org/
In other words, is Kontact dead?
Stop the insanity! 'Kroupware' sounds like a brand of German kitchen-utensils or something.
But it would be cool to have a good, free Exchange client. I've tried Ximian Connector, but Evolution often crashes for me with Connector installed. I've tried the WebDAV/Exchange/IMAP thingie in Korganizer, but it never has imported schedule items properly for me.
I'm not complaining, just wishing.
I thought Killustrator was funny, but Kroupware? Ugh. Very krappy.
"Derp de derp."
Now we have a proper, KDE-enhanced groupware solution for all sizes of organisations. Unfortunately, even if it is better than Exchange, those organisations are still going to stick with Exchange just because it's what they're familiar with. Hopefully we can try and get this stuff supported in the workplace, and if we contribute code and offer support to the companies we work for if they use this, we can get more widespread adoption.
Bash script for FP whores
From the FAQ:
How can I make Outlook talk to the Kolab Server?
You need a Plug-in called InsightConnector from http://bynari.com. This is proprietary software and you need to aquire a license. Demo versions are available. A second company, konsec.com, announced to make a similiar plug-in offering in Q3 2003.
Later on it states:
Is there no Free Software Outlook plugin? Will you create one?
We are not aware of an existing Free Software plug-in for Outlook. Within the Kroupware project we have not been contracted to create such a plug-in. "Kervin L. Pierre" announced to work on it and started sourceforge.net/projects/otlkcon.
Great looking interface...gonna have to give it a try.
Possibly the single worst project name ever conceived. Who can take a name like that seriously?
Kroupware? There is an Open Source product whose that is going head to head against major proprietary mail server packages, and someone actually thought to call it 'Kroupware'?
Is that like 'HackingCoughWare' or, perhaps, the more subtle 'ScreamingInfantWare'? Ok, perhaps this is a troll, but I've historically had a hard enough time selling open source stuff into various enterprises. ("MySQL? Aww, what a cute name. Now go get us something that sounds professional." I've heard that. Literally. Twice.) I realize we're all smart enough to know better.
Selling a product is as much (if not more) selling an image than it is selling features, reliability, etc. At least for the PHBs I've had to sell to in the past. Trying to bring a mission critical piece of software in that's named after an anoying childhood malady will, before anything else, elicit a bunch of laughs from the powers that be, and then there's that much more of a hole to dig out of.
The project isn't just O"K", it's GREAT!
Seriously though, integrating the K elements is great. However, I noticed that Korganizer doesn't like a HUGE file (takes forever to load). Also, Kmail's LDAP feature is not integrated with the mail client (it's part of the address book and requires the user to start the address book instead of integrating LDAP with Kmail (as implemented in Mozilla)).
Anyone know if this project fixes those problems?
According to the FAQ (and from ximian.com) it appears as if Evolution doesn't support Kroupware and wont be supporting it anytime soon (see this post to the evolution mailing list). This is a real shame considering that outside of the KDE camp most people aren't using K-Mail in favor of Gnome clients like Evolution and Balsa.
"Kroupware"?!!? As someone who's had a few younger brothers and sisters who've had the croup as babies.. that's a pretty lame name. It makes me think of text-to-speech software being played too loudly on a pair of cheap speakers.
... but all those apps that begin with K become a real nuisance to find on KDE's version of the start-menu when you're a Linux newb such as myself.
"Derp de derp."
They aren't trying to make a drop in replacement of Exchange. They are trying to make a functional replacement of Exchange. Also I think the German's needed something for their spiffy linux desktops to do besides look pretty.
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
As much as I want this to be a viable Exchange replacement, it looks like another near miss to me. A quick review of the screenshots shows a distince seperation between client and server folders. Saddly, this alone would torpedo implementing this as a solution where I work. The cost of re-training the users would exceed the cost of Exchange client licenses.
Open Source .... take the source ... ...
name it something else
profit
Kolab, the server : : :
Architecture paper
Kontact, the KDE client
Bynari insight connector (not free)LA
Kolab server download
didn't know that.
Kolab is the sister planet to Kolob. Fellow Kolabians, let's extend a warm handshake of welcome to our brethren the Kolobians.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Croup - noun - a spasmodic laryngitis especially of infants marked by episodes of difficult breathing and hoarse metallic cough
You clearly misunderstand the true purpose of Exchange, which is to transmit viruses at blinding speeds. For a full-featured replacement, you can't get a more marketable name than "kroupware".....
native integration with outlook.
i said this before in another post, but i am going to say it again. businesses aren't ready for desktop linux, which means server side solutions (no matter how brilliant) MUST work with the desktop apps that employees use. no one wants to relearn their e-mail client; and yes i am aware that evolution is almost identical to outlook at the interface level. but the truth of it is, the perception of any new desktop software is "now i have to learn everything all over again". it's the illusion of difficulty, so we as developers (and by we i mean you :) ) should make it our primary goal to lessen the difficulty of the intgration with newer, oss technology where ever we can
scott king
Kon't Kou Kust Kate Kt Khen Kll Khe Ktupid Kords Ktart Kith K?
Check this shot out.
I pose a thread to my neighbors when I keep the window shades open. heh heh.
Just for your info this is a ./ about KDE will you Ksuckers go somewhere where someone kares...in short kut it out, kwit posting about kock roosters.
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
The letter K is no sillier than the infamous red-hat or my personal hero, Geeko (SuSE). Mandrake, Debian, and every other project in the OS that got off the ground and into code has a mascot. Its half the fun and joy of this OS. Heck, is K any sillier than E?
http://otlkcon.sf.net is mine.
I've been working on it from about Nov'02, and was pretty much trying to keep things on the down-low until I had a proof-of-concept to show. You see, ironically, I did this to not have yet-another-vapor-project out there :)
The a simple connector plugin would not have taken this long. But I've decided to take a solid stab at solving the root problem, that is, an extendable MAPI message service, and the tools needed to program for/with this set of MAPI providers.
First part of the Message service, is the message store. That's the DLL in MAPI responsible for actually saving your mail to the filesystem, amongst other things. The second most important service provider, the transport service provider, is responsible for sending the mail off, basically.
I've been focusing on a sub-project at http://sapimapi.sf.net. Don't let the stats put you off, I've been putting a decent amount of hours on this one ( sf.net CVS stats are broken right now ). This testing utility has a built in scripting language, and common MAPI routines, to make it easy to configure the behavior of MAPI clients for testing the service providers. I also intend to fit in TNEF routines and info on much of the undocumented MAPI properties I've collected from/at various places. The testing utilitly is early, early alpha; I have the language lexer/parser done, and I'm working on the built in MAPI library calls. Extended MAPI from C# is a bitch. Funny they forget to mention stuff like that in the brochure.
Open source connector will get done soon. I've heard of at least one other group working on the problem. I suspect it's only a matter of time till one of the unprofitable companies, selling a MAPI connector, releases it as open source. There are a lot of them.
The important thing, I believe, is that we get a complete extendable toolkit, that would spark the continued development of extensions. Eg. address book, chat, voicemail, etc.
An Exchange tie-in that functions like all the rest - requiring the Byntari Connector which provides limited service at best.
"Kroupware" was only a working title for the project. The completed product is called Kolab. I don't know why Slashdot went with Kroupware in the title (I think someone mentioned "kroup" is similary to the Dutch word for throwing up).
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
So, are you a different AC, or do you just have too much time on your hands?
The special 'contact' folder approach is very common. It is what outlook uses, or at least use to use.
Evolution could have a simple 'contact-folder-is-special' switch, or a 'kroupware-support' switch to toggle behavior.
Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
STFU already. You made the same goddamn point several times on this fucking thread. Give it a rest. Are you critical of apple's use of i-everything, or of MS's overuse of -XP? Or are you just bitching for the sake of bitching?
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
You must be representing the GNAA. I think they should form a KNAA as an alternative of GNAA.
Ja, das namen "Kroupware" ist untercompatible mit der "marketing" und "salez". Ve haf zehr lang geflamed unt gechat mit keine success. in Deutsch, "kroup" en "group" ist blinkindentic.
Ja, Slashdot namentrollz, genough mit dem "kind und kroup" joken. Ve asken zie einen gutten namen te finden. We zen unterserious. Das winner mit deze bestes namen ist kandidate fur ein Freiexemplar gewinnen. Achtung, frei als in "freies Bier"! Ja, ja. Ist Kool, nein?
Ceci n'est pas une signature
It's interesting to find that most comments thus far has been about the name of the app. Is there really no more to say or are people just looking for cheap Funny-karma?
I'll chip in for the ante then:
This seems to be an intreresting product for hybrid companies (like I've worked with) where the engineering part is using Linux and the manager part is using Windows/Outlook. This way there is a serious player for interconnecting the two of them that (unlike Evolution) doesn't rely on an Exchange server. If now Evolution just could start working with this as well and we'll have real interconnectivity. Good.
Well lets be kute; how about:
The server.
Say what?
The server.
So what does it serve?
K's
K's?
Yes K's.
What kind of K's?
Krunchy K's.
Krunchy K's?
Krunchy Krispy Krackly K's
On a Kaiser bun.
OK now that's just Krazy.
Not at all. It's much better than anyone elses Krap, and it will not Krash.
Uh Huh. You stay there while I kall someone to kome and karry your krazy ass out of my kondo. Kapish?
Kroupware and the others are nice. But what we really need is for CALSCH http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/calsch-charter.h tml
to finish with CAP http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-cal sch-cap-10.txt . As you can see CAP is on it's tenth public revision.
We need a standard that specifies the transport of the calendar protocol, badly. We need CAP finished.
The special folder in IMAP scheme will work. But is a little on the hackish side, and incompartibility between servers is a serious problem, even with standard formats, like iCal based schemes.
Next we need a cross platform messaging server. Although, it does not support IMAP as yet, Apache James is my favorite, at http://james.apache.org. First of all it has a strong group endorsing it, the Apache group. That's going to be important for selling this thing to risk-adverse corporate types. Second, it's Java, so I trust it a little more in the buffer-overflow department. Also it would probably integrate nicely in current J2EE setups. I've heard people are doing this.
James needs IMAP and CAP support. And then we will have a decent shot at the less entrenched sector of the exchanges market.
Not more stupid than the letter 'G'
Join the Net Scouts today!
"Kroupware and the others are nice. But what we really need is for CALSCH to finish with CAP . As you can see CAP is on it's tenth public revision."
What I see is you're way behind. February 2003 and here we are four month's later. Hopefully this "standard" is XML based.
"James needs IMAP and CAP support. And then we will have a decent shot at the less entrenched sector of the exchanges market."
I'm certain there's java code floating around on the net, that can be integrated to give IMAP. CAP is a maybe, I don't know enough about it, but it shouldn't be an onerous burdon to put this in as well. And is there really any such thing as a "less entrenched" exchange market?
You must be new.. autopr0n posts on tons of forums for no real reason.. slashdot, fark, etc.. it's so he can spam his site.. good thing its a porn site, and a good one, else i might actually get mad =)
You only proved that you didn't read the announcement. The server is called Kolab, the project name was Kroupware.
An aspect of Kroupware project I find really interesting is the "indirect funding" by the German government. The government said "we need features X, Y, and Z and be compatible with Outlook and Linux". The developers responded to those requests and won the contract to develop the software. I've thought for a long time this would be a really intelligent way for government agencies of any size to get the features they want out of software for a reasonable price.
It'd be cool to see a larger group commercial group offer themselves as contract coders for government projects. They can offer a product with X features to the agency, get the money to fund the development, then distribute that software back into the wild under a Free license for everyone else to benefit.
It seems a major issue with many government agencies and corporations adopting Free Software alternatives to commercial offerings is with support. No matter how good a coder a particular OS contributor is, they are not likely available 24/7 to fix a major problem or to add a particular feature. If there is a warm body at the end of a telephone who is paid to fix bugs or add features I think more institutions would adopt Free software solutions.
In particular to Krappynameware's case, the German government is pretty gung ho about Free software to begin with. Their requirements actually included Linux support and interoperability. It'd nice to see a government agency apt to use non-proprietary solutions to their software needs. Such solutions only leed to vendor lock-in and wasting of taxpayer dollars or euros.
What groups besides maybe the major Linux distributions like SuSE and RedHat and maybe Ximian provide the sort of support government agencies contract out? I obviously haven't seen many because I can only list three off the top of my head. Are there any vendors that provide those sort of services as a regular business plan?
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
I fon't care if Corporate decided to use Exchange. I'm not in charge of keeping it up, it's not my ass if it gets hacked, and I don't get paged at 4am when it goes down again.
What I want is not to have to use Outlook.
I _hate_ Outlook. I actually don't use it on a regular basis - I use fetchmail to grab Email and then read it with Pine.
The problem is calendars.
I figured out that Outlooks/Exchange have a nice little signature on Calendar items. They looks like regular Emails except they have a *~*~*~*~*~ pattern in them. So I can get Pine (or procmail or whatever) to grab them and stick them in whatever the hell I decided I want to use for calendaring.
But I can't actually send out an "Accept" or "Reject", not can I maintain my calendar on the server. I need to run Outlook for those.
I've found no software that'll let me do that. And no, Ximian and Bynari software don't work as they all require Outlook Web Services to be enabled.
Anyone know of software that can do that?
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
Glad you could join us. I got a spot for you right under CmdrTaco's anus warmed up for ya.
Why aren't you flaming Gnome for having programs that all start with G? Seriously, why? Why is ot OK for Gnome to call their apps Gaim, Gnumeric, Gimp, Galeon etc. etc.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
Mental illness alert! Anger problem.
Because, perhaps, that actually many (if not most) gnome apps don't start with G: Evolution, Epiphany, Sodipodi, Dia, Anjuta, Pan, MrProject, Abiword and so on. Yes, too many still use that old overworked scheme, but not nearly as many as in some other projects.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Great name!
Does this come installed with Teething 1.0? How about Thrush 1.0? Are there any other baby-disease names we could offer the KDE people? :)
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
Because it is the K desktop environment. Did you ever ask yourself why every Microsoft application starts with "Microsoft" or "MS"?
So if Microsoft does it, it's okay? Interesting reasoning.
First of all: The "Kroupware" name. Don't worry, it doesn't exist at all anymore. Kroupware was the name of the contract development, and will not be used for anything else. The server is called Kolab, and the client is KMail, Korganizer, KAddressbook and KPilot. In KDE 3.2 these will come together in one bunch under the name Kontact. We are now porting the features to KDE cvs HEAD.
Second: There are a bunch of people asking about features. For this project we had a list of requirements from BSI that we would implement. We implemented exactly this and not much more. When people say the word groupware, they immediatelly expect three thousand different functionalities, and if you in version 1.0 try to implement all of them, you will break your neck trying.
The functionality is:
Calendaring with iCalendar - send invitations between KMail and Outlook for example
Addressbook - a global one by LDAP and a local one in vCard contacts
Tasks - not groupware tasks though (only KMail to KMail or Outlook to Outlook, since OL doesn't understand iCalendar tasks scheduling :-( )
Vacation mail setup - for vacation nag mails
MDN
Disconnected IMAP support
Roaming support by storing the calendar/contacts... stuff in IMAP folders
Resource scheduling (book cars, rooms...)
I probably forgot a bunch of features. Clientwise, the most important are definately that you can invite between KMail and Outlook. On the server side, the interesting thing here is that this is the only truly free groupware server available, and will allow the Outlook people to continue working with it.
In case you visit the Linux Developers Conference in Edinburgh next week, you can see a presentation/demonstration by me.
Bo Thorsen,
Klaralvdalens Datakonsult AB
Project leader on the client.
YOU KEEP FAILING IT. But it's great you eat shit. Keep doing it, it'll do good for your immune system.
Let's see... Arts, CDBakeOven, Noatun, Aethera, Psi etc. There are plenty of KDE-apps that don't start with K. Yes, it's propably more common in KDE to start with KD than it is in Gnome to start with G. But what are you going to do? Tell the people who write the apps that "you must name your app the way I want!"? If they want to name it Ksomething, don't they have that right?
Whining about the name is completely pointless. It's the software that matters, not the name
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
Well, an authors of course have every right to name the apps whatever they want. I could write a suite of vastly different apps and call the App01, App02 ... in chronological (or source code size) order, and nobody would have a right stop me.
If I did suffer from temprary insanity, though, and decided to use that scheme, I hope I would be wise enough to listen if numerous people argue that it may not be the best possible naming scheme for various reasons.
I see this sort of like bug reporting. There is a world of difference between useless and mean bitching about some perceived fault on one hand, and constructive criticism on the other. Saying "The name GNU/OpenKGKGKGKGKGKG sucks. You stink." is mean-spirited and unhelpful. Saying "Good app. I have a suggestion, though: wouldn't 'Docfilter' or 'Textconvert' be a better name? It would probably help a lot of people find the app." is, on the other hand constructive and helpful.
Pointing out that having a largish collections of applications all starting with the same latter can couse problems for the users is certainly valid criticism - as long as its not along the lines of "you are dumb" as discussed above.
And there _are_ general naming problems today. To take one axample from my favourite desktop: Galeon. Nice name. Starts with G and everything. But - what is it? Sit a new Linux user down on a Gnome desktop and ask them to run the web browser - they will not associate an app named "Galeon" with anything web-related. They may think it's something nautical, or perhaps some kind of fonance program, but not a browser. For all its faults, "Internet Explorer" does have an excellent name. "Netscape" works only because it's such a well-established term. "Mozilla" may in time achieve the same status. But the smaller browsers really have a problem here - and it goes for Galeon, Epiphany, Konqueror and Opera.
Now, for one app, the problem isn't all that great - you find it once, and you know what it is. Gnome and KDE has a special problem, though - one that isn't shared by most other projects. That is that they are collections of many applications. If all - or most - of those applications have the same naming issues, learning the desktop will be an excercize in frustration. Not all apps have this problem, of course; 'gedit', 'kword' 'AbiWord' are fairly clear, for instance, signalling their general task area in the name. Having a convention like "start all app names with G/K" increases the problem - frequently you see names that are very convoluted or artificial, simply so they can fit that mold, which of course does not help the user one bit. KDE arguably has a small additional problem, as the template there specifies to replace 'C' with 'K'. A user remembers that it was named "Conqueror", and tries it on the command line, with no success. Another small, but needless, moment of frustration ensues. There is _very_ good reason why, for instance, redhat elected to replace the actual app names in the menus with descriptive entries.
Another reason to be wary about cute naming schemes is that it easily grates on people. I would be very happy if I never needed to feast my eyes on another app starting with 'G' or 'K' ever again. Especially those that does a nifty sound-alike replacement ("Konqueror", "gnumeric") is a source of low-level irritation - I know how it's supposed to be spelled and get the same mild annoyance I get from misspelled words in other places where people are supposed to know better. Again, not a big thing at all, but these kind of minor issues pile up and do determine the general impression of quality, often on a subconsious level.
So yes, call the app whatever you want, but please do so knowing why the name may be a problem.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
You can't fight slashdot *ON* slashdot. It's pretty funny this whole thing is about censorship, since that is what they do best around here. Try adequacy.org or kuro5hin something.
They have a client plug-in (not free) that lets you use entirely free software on the server to implement all the shared calendaring etc. functions. It works pretty well, and it's about 1/10 the cost of Exchange.
Go back and look at the screen shot here. What exactly do you see?
I see an interface design that isn't happy with including everything but the kitchen sink, so it grabbed that, the bathroom sink, tub, and anything else in the apartment that could actually hold water, and threw that in too. Too many menus with uniformative titles, too many buttons with uninformative icons, too many content panes to possible figure out which one you're actually working in. Plus the cheap knockoff of the hierachial view of Windows, which i've always thought was poorly designed from a UI standpoint (and ugly, too!).
This illustrates the worst tendencies of open source software. The first instinct is to do whatever Microsoft does, and it's a bad one. Microsoft's got more employees than it really knows what to do with, so when it comes down to deciding which features to implement, they implement them all. Everything winds up bloated and confusing.
It'll be nice that Linux users have the option of using this, but by shamelessly trying to mimic Exchange/Outlook, these guys have taken away any chance they had of being better than Microsoft.
______ This mind intentionally left blank.
ircII EPIC4-1.0 :P
and be done with it.
"The fact we don't have a vendor backing this project make people uneasy. With a childish name, it is even harder"
If they "don't have a vendor," then who is MySQL AB?
Will I retire or break 10K?
How about KDE is no in some language?
Possibly... Go here, select "czech - english", and enter 'kde'.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Actually if you've ever used Korganizer or KMail (Kontact is just the mashing of those together), you would know that it's actually pretty straightforward to use. The icons are no worse than MS' icons, and many concepts are difficult to get across in a 24x24 bitmap.
As someone once said: the only truly intuitive interface is the nipple; everything else is learned. All this talk of intuitive interfaces and crap icons is bullshit. Tooltips and context-sensitive help are available, and better icons come with time and inspiration. There simply is no such thing as a truly intuitive application, especially one as complex as a groupware application.
FWIW, Kmail and KOrganizer can be run separately and still maintain their connectedness via the data. you don't have to run Kontact if you don't want to. That is an important difference between MS' implementation and KDE's.
What's next? A new version of Tux Racer: "Kux Kacer"? How about a 3D modelling toolkit: "3D Kudio"? I also can't wait for the next KDE news site: "Klashdot".
For the love of Linus PLEASE find better names!
... and expected to be released in September according to this blog entry.
and a lot of developers write Open Source code because it allows them to do what they want WITHOUT having to deal with the "marketing types."
.). However, over time, they have made very tangible contributions to the Open Source community and earned a lot of people's respect (the most valuable thing in the community), all of which would not have been possible if they had not originally be complete "copycats".
We all should learn to respect and appreciate these individuals as they are, because they have earned it.
Now, you seem more "marketing concious." Good news! There is nothing stopping you from completely changing the name when you sell, say, kroupware. You might need to pay someone a couple of bucks to change all references to the orginal name, but that really isn't a big deal (or, perhaps you could do it yourself). And . . . wallah, you have a product you can sell to incompetent PHB's.
Just remember to:
1. Release the source
2. Let people know what it is "based" on
3. Pass down some of those big bucks from good marketing to the orginal project (that is the best way to let them know they should change their name)
And before people scream at this method, remember that Mandrake use to be a COMPLETE knockoff of RedHat (not sure if it was motivated by an unmarketable name . .
Try to remember how large Open Source projects are (every single one should be considered "global") and how many cultures are involved. Kroupware may suck for marketing in the U.S., but it may also be great in Germany. If the name bothers you then DO something about it, yourself. Follow the rules, and you should be okay.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
why would anyone use ANY software starting with K, how unprofessional and cliché can you get. Maybe its just me, but i don't have faith in any piece of software that begins with K, Kate, KCdWrite, whatever is it... I guarentee that its crap
They've changed most the names, I thought, for newbies, just like you.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
Fakt 1: The German government provided funding for this projekt.
Fakt 2: In Georgia, small businesses are fronts for the Klan: Kathy's Kountry Kitcen, for example.
Fakt 3: Koincidence?
I think knot.
The development of Kroupware would not have been possible without the wholesale theft of hundreds of lines of code, complete with programmer comments, bugs, and spelling mistakes from the code of "Mighty$oft Office". It is illegal to use this software, and we will shortly be suing you for ONE MILLION DOLLARS (holds pinky finger to corner of mouth). We cannot identify the sections of code in question as they are trade secrets. Additionally all versions of any groupware software developed by any entity at any point in space-time are OWN3D by us. Pay up now, or else.
The university that I work for uses Exchange like it was coded by Jesus Christ himself.
Luckyly, I'm a muslim, i dont have to use Exchange
-- Hasbullah bin Pit (sebol)
Still, it has some incredible UI mistakes that make no sense. I mean... the number of the day in the calendar is aligned to the center, instead of to the right. Why?! It's just painful to sight.
Add to that the lack of spacing in the menu options, the crowded toolbar and the weird alignment of the main window. It clearly needs an UI review if it wants to get near a professional look.
God, another crappy name. Kroupware? Does absolutely everything have to begin with a "K"?
If my boss asks me the software I recommend, will he be more keen to something called Exchange or to something called Kroupware?
Why are so many projects so lazy with their names? Believe it or not, there is a bit of brand recognition that comes into play, and even if it is something trivial and meaningless when it comes to technical merits, it's a lot more friendly and accessible to actually come up with a nice project name. Kroupware sounds...stupid.
Maybe I'm alone in this opinion. But the whole K-something schtick has run quite thin with me.
"Sufferin' succotash."
They don't use LDAP for the same reason (most) people don't use SQL databases to organize their MP3 collection. It's like killing mosquitos with a tactical nuke!
0 1 - just my two bits
I think you may be looking at these products too strongly. Kroupware offers companies that would otherwise choose Linux the ability to have a non Microsoft groupware solution. I don't think anybody is claiming that for a company already committed to Microsoft for the OS level, and not requiring KDE integration that Kroupware is the right choice.
"The icons are no worse than MS' icons, and many concepts are difficult to get across in a 24x24 bitmap."
That is more or less the point i was trying to make. Yes, MS's icons are nearly equally useless, and yes it's an inherent limitation of small images. They just can't convey much information.
That's why Microsoft shouldn't be emulated - there shouldn't be 40 small, similar looking images across the toolbar. Pick the 10 most important functions, make readily distinguishable images for them, and put them there. People will be able to use and remember them instead of staring mutely at all the indistinguishable choices.
I'm sorry if i sound unduly harsh - the K folks have put a lot of hard work into this - but i've spent the last few days writing and editing a paper in Word v.X, and i'm about ready to take an Uzi up to Redmond.
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I am the Star of Slashdot! Woo! Look at me dance! The Slasdot Dance! Yayayayayayya! *ahem* Kroupware is a great concept, but I really doubt it will catch on in business use. However it would make sense for personal use. I'm glad there's a solution, but this won't be viable until some big 'Sun' takes it and makes it all spiffy and technically supported. But it's out there, so that's good.
Many Thanks,
Luke
this KKK thing is getting out of hand, someone should stop them before they Keplace every Ketter of the Klphabeth with 'K'...
The GNOME project grew up and started moving away from "g*" on new projects as it went mainstream. KDE is still shoving Ks in front of everything.
May we never see th
MySQL? Postgres?
May we never see th
It has to be said.
no windows interoperability. There is no free plugin that works with Outlook. This is a problem is you want to get ride of exchange / msmail server and replace it with this, cause then you have to PAY for a connector to this. So then is it really worth it to management when they already have a licensed peice of software that works? Not in my company. yes there is a web frontend to it, but that is NOT a solution. This is close and if you can pull off an entirely linux / unix installbase then you are okay, but when your flagship product runs windows and management wont let the dev team rewrite it, your glued to windows.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
This is great news as I have eagerly awaited the 1.0 version of Kolab since its announcement last October. But in the months that have transpired others have also toiled to produce similar Exchange "killers". Today, we have three relatively new candidates that all claim to be Exchange killers. They are Kolab, SuSE OpenExchange, and the recently announced OpenGroupware.
So, the Open Source world has gone from a complete derth of groupware servers to a seeming abundance of groupware servers and all in just six to nine months. Or has it? How do these different groupware systems compare with each other with respect to features, performance, scalability, ease of use and ease of integration? More importantly, how do these same packages compare with Exchange itself with respect to the same metrics? It would be very nice to see an article that thoroughly reviews and benchmarks these for groupware systems. One final note, to those that may take on the challenge of doing such a review, Exchange is now at version 2003. A review that compares these systems with Exchange 5.5 will be worthless.
K doesn't stand for Kool, it stands for K.. nothing more nothing less ( this is documented on the KDE pages ).
And while K-this and K-that may sound silly sometimes, at least its a standard of sorts.. you can pretty much bet a K-app is built to operate within the KDE framework..
Helps with the concept of consistency, something that DOES have some value.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
ah still using the cli to install it. give me a simple gui install. Let me double click on one setup file and have it setup everything for me. And make it simple to remove it as well. Until then, no matter how simple a program is to use, if its not easy to install, then its not ready for the masses. A good example is the install mozilla uses. Now that one works. Just not easy to remove, but it sure is easy to install.