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New Linux-based PDA due September
Bill Kendrick writes "LinuxDevices.com has a preview of a new Linux-based PDA due out next month. Some of you might recognize the form-factor; it's from Softfield, the folks who ended up with the rights to the first commercial Linux-based PDA, the black-and-white, MIPs-based Agenda VR3. Softfield's new model, the MX-7, sports a 200MHz CPU, full-color 240x320 display, 32MB Flash and 64MB RAM, an SD card slot, and Trolltech's Qtopia environment. All for $299 USD."
This device will be very useful and I intend to buy one as soon as it comes out. We could always use more of these.
Who are you?
They must not have gotten the memo.
concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
Not bad at $300, but it sorely needs an MP3 player (native) and some good games. Otherwise, a Palm powered PDA would be a hell of a lot more useful.
If it doesn't run Ogg then can we actually say it will be useful? (tongue removed from cheek)
Could linux based PDAs be the toe-in-the-door for some real commercial game development for linux? Or productivity and other such apps?
I mean I see major commercial titles hitting Palms and WinCE, if some ported to linux based PDAs, it might snowball into linux, well (get ready to mod me down, zealots), doing something useful for me besides routing packets to my Windows machines and Xbox.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
a year ago, I would have creamed myself over this...
but now with tapwave coming out, and the PSP sometime next year, there's nothing to be excited about...
oh well
Powermac G5, now this!. My Sony Clie PEG-415 and Tungsten W are now on sale...
I need to get back to work to make the big bucks...
The package said "Windows XP or better. Pentium Class Processor or better"... So I got a Mac with OS X
I had an Agenda and I have a Zarus.
The key to the Zaurus are the two expansion slots, the keyboard, and the fact it runs OpenZaurus.
It looks like the new Softfield PDA will have the SD slot (less useful than CompactFlash) and MAY in time be able to run OpenZaurs.
If it does, it will be a useful device, but you can already pick up a Sharp Zaurus 5500 for less than $300 (I paid about $280 for mine)
- Serge Wroclawski
Want want want...I've been lusting after a VR3 for a while, but I might have to hold off for this.
Carousel is a lie!
Hmmmm....
1. Find something non-Linux based
2. Make a linux version.
3. ???
4. Profit
SirLantos
The flying hamster of DOOM rains coconuts on your pitiful city.
I own a Sharp Zaurus 5500, and I am not impressed with its syncing prowess. Luckily, I know enough to back up the whole PDA using 'scp', but that doesnt go for Joe and Jane.
I hope Multisync does on to become the defacto tool for synchronizing all kinds of handhelds, mobiles with email, calendar, address books, etc.
There is no patch for stupidity
Visit my blog
One for data storage expansion, one for peripherals.
Think: camera & place to store pictures; WiFi card & place to store downloaded files.
Other than that, seems like YALP (yet another Linux PDA). Not that we couldn't use more of them...
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
It's too bad that Softfield is wasting this opportunity to do something actually *interesting*. QVGA screen? Please...how passe. Why not match up an innovative OS/UI with some innovative hardware? I mean, it's not like this current device is going to set the world on fire, so try something creative and maybe establish yourself as a credible player? Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time with this lame sub-incrementalist crap.
This thing would never have caught my eye when I was searching for a PDA.
It looks atrocious (at this point) and doesn't have near the specs dell offers for the same price.
The fact that it's "linux based" doesn't send me into "I want one!" orgasms.
clifgriffin > blog
$299 + SCO license = Too expensive!
------------------ D. A. Davenport: http://www.firebin.net
... sync with iSync, and sync with something on Linux.
I wonder if "Opie" will make an appearance in commercial hardware anytime soon... it started as a fork of the QTopia environment, and is coming along nicely. It would be really cool to have Opie become the standard palmtop environment.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
The only killer app I have seen so far on PDAs except the basic PIM stuff is GPS navigation. Is there any navigation software available for linux PDA? And Im not talking about raster map software, but vector based maps.
The Hell's Angels, who detained Gordon for police, were not, the sources say, gentle with sensitive areas of the rock star's body.
Sheeiteeee! If yer gonna molest a child, cant you pick a kid other than the daughter of the leader of the Hells Angels?
Can anyone tell me why none of these mobile ARM processors, such as the StrongARM, Xscale, etc, never seem to have floating point processing capabilities? Is it due to power contraints, or is it something else?
RaGe
We're all just noise on the wires..
All for $299 USD
Only if you believe the marketing. More likely, it will be somewhere around $299 (PDA) + $699 (SCO license) + $50 (shipping and handling) + 15% (taxes) = $1205.20
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
Just for the record, the real price is $331. They must have forgot about the $32 SCO because-we-can fee.
ascii art
The IBM PC was not very innovative with its hardware either. Look where that got them today. What morons.
I have 3656.9 Bogomips. How many Bogomips do you have?
I have a Sharp Zaurus, and I think Qtopia just doesn't cut it.
Sure, it looks pretty nice and it has most of the functionality you might want in a PDA, but it is still significantly worse than either Palm or PPC. Some of the problems include badly thought out user interaction, wasteful use of the limited screen real estate (probably a result of being based on an adaptation of a desktop toolkit), and pretty excessive resource consumption by Qt/Embedded. And there is far less software available for Qtopia than for either Palm or PPC. If you want good PDA functionality, get a Palm.
On the other hand, as a Linux PDA for vertical apps, Qtopia-based PDAs also fall short: you are limited to the Qt toolkit and all the graphics and UI code from existing Linux apps require complete rewrites. You can't use any of the open source GUI tools you are likely used to (Tcl/Tk, Python/Gtk+, etc.). And if you want to write commercial apps, it's going to cost you (you can do commercial Palm development for free).
Linux PDAs will keep failing until their makers recognize that it is futile to compete with Palm and PPC head-on. Linux PDAs can thrive in the niche of providing portable little Linux machines, but that means not limiting the machines to running just a single GUI toolkit.
i dont get it, why get a "linux" pda only to have a proprietary gui environment, this utterly missed the real power and freedom of linux. honestly, until these suckers run a nice free software gui i see no compelling reason to stop using palmos devices.
Linux is very nice for mobile devices in general, including/especially laptops. In desktops I think it tends to lag because of well, the games, and the whole mess around Wine, Hardware Acceleration, and proprietary/buggy 3d-accelerated hardware drivers. I *do* have it on my desktop at home, it just doesn't quite do everything my windows machine does (games, and the Nvidia driver craps out and locks if X gets shutdown in a way it doesn't like).
Now, on my laptop, I've got an iceWM XP-styled desktop with: MozillaFirebird, Evolution, SSH in my terminal, OpenOffice, gMerlin (VCD, Mpeg), and XMMS (mp3). Does everything I could want it to do. General computing is more lightweight than windows, though I do admit some things lag up a bit more too. I have a small windows partition to go online when I need dialup (particular lucent winmodem not supported yet), but otherwise it's always 'nix.
Now, on a PDA you may have games, but none of that 3d-accelerated high-end crap so you don't have to worry about weird drivers. A web-browser, organizer, and a bunch of open-source plugin software/games and I think it would do very nicely with linux.
Linux may not be ready for the multimedia/game desktop, but it could most definately be ready for PDA's and portables.
But there is plenty available for Linux Game Development.
garagegames.com provides the Torque Engine for only $100 a programmer. A number of quality games already exist for free or (more likely) as shareware at their site.
There are different libraries like PLIB, which as I remember was used for Tux Kart and other games.
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be active websites for the community of GNU/Linux game developers. Usually the mailing lists are more active though. The websites look defunct which may make people think that nothing is happening.
As for productivity, yes, it is possible that more Linux-based PDAs will make people want to work on GnuCash and other such projects that are needed for productivity. I think that it might be a catch-22 in that demand for such apps would fuel development but development requires demand...The difference here is that if the hardware developers would hire programmers to actually MAKE the software in the first place, it would solve the problem.
Maybe not the most direct answer, but it is my $.02
I have 3656.9 Bogomips. How many Bogomips do you have?
Just imagine running, PDA in hand, from SCO's keystone cops style lawyers to the sound of the Benny Hill show tune.
And you thought you couldn't get laid when you showed of your "regular" PDA. Just wait until you flash your Linux PDA.
Call me naive, but is there really a purpose in having a multi-tasking, Unix-like kernel ... in a PDA?
Open source PDA operating system, OK I can see that. But why Linux? Seems to me somebody's just riding on buzzword cache without any regard to whether there's really any demand for a device like this.
Breakfast served all day!
they aren't really linux pda's as of yet, they are just replacing proprietary gui's from vendors like palm inc and microsoft with a lower quality one made by trolltech. i see no reason to switch from palmos until there is a free gui envirnment running on these things.
honestly, until these suckers run a nice free software gui i see no compelling reason to stop using palmos devices.
umm....ever heard of opie?
but does anyone else find the design monsterously ugly. It seems like a decent device - although I'll stick with my Zaurus, but unlike any of the other PDA's on the market this one just LOOKS ugly. I know that this could seem like a troll post, but honestly i'm sure there is others like me who don't like using ugly things - similar to my complaint with the Xbox Giganta controller - which was quickly replaced with a smaller one.
Ave Molech Setting
i guess that he can get a job as a eunuch programmer
Never underestimate the logical power of sarcasm
Is this all source available product where I can swap out the linux kernel for a BSD kernel? If so, I'd buy 2 on the spot!
Kinda cheap looking, huh? Not impressing specs (need a CF slot!) and it looks like the buttons and cover will fall off on arrival..
Free as in whine, or free as in beer?
Greeaaat. Now her fat face is spilling over into the forums.
Michael - Why is your mom doing ads for ebay anyway? Is her pimp not paying her enough?
I mean, is your dad really that greedy?
What could they be thinking?
My Tungsten C has a 320x320 screen. This "new" PDA has the "old" Zaurus screen.
At least they could have used the Zaurus SL-C700 640x480 screen.
Nope.
Read it again:
"
If you do NOT have a previous U.S. passport or a certified birth certificate, you will need:
1. Letter of No Record Issued by the state with your name, date of birth, which years were searched for a birth record and that there is no birth certificate on file for you.
2. AND as many of the following as possible:
- Baptismal certificate
- Hospital birth certificate
- Census record
- Certificate of circumcision
- Early school record
- Family bible record
- Doctor's record of post-natal care
"
No where does it say that its required.
In fact, the US is the only modern society that still practices this. And its something we, as men, need to put an end to.
Would a woman put up with their daughters having their clits ripped from their bodies as babies?
Try Matchbox.
Is this PDA going to actually come out, or is it more vapourware (like the original Agenda) or will it really, truly be available? It was a complete outrage what happened with the Agenda, when /. hyped the hell out of it, they took a bunch of orders and money and then did not deliver. I was going to buy one, and was glad I kept my money so they did not get it. So the question (beyond the unanswered question of what happened to everyone's money the first time) is will this "new company" actually deliver or just rip off the Linux community again?
it is indeed cool that it runs linux, but look at the pictures: it is offence to good taste.
my $0.02
[ insert your own witty .sig here ]
"Would a woman put up with their daughters having their clits ripped from their bodies as babies?" Removing the clit is like removing the penis! You insensitive clod. Female circumcsion is MUTILATION and bad, while male circumcision is good because it prevents cancer in men and cervical cancer in women. It reduces AIDs rates and improves sensitivity and looks in the penis.
That has to be the ugliest PDA I've ever seen.
Judy Branch is an attractive lady. Sincerely, Rosie O'Donnell
Not a lot of big name commercial developers are developing for the *nix platform. Couple that with Carmack's statement on being able to ignore the platform without losing too much sleep, and you have a lot of people who just won't develop for Gnu/Linux.
It is hard enough to make money on the Win32 platform. Publishers don't want to take a risk on Linux-based machines.
On the other hand, there is more to shareware than "homebrewed" stuff. There are professional quality games that are shareware by choice. They do make money. Garagegames just happens to be one of those companies that provides a high quality engine for really cheap. Torque has been used in Tribes 2, and there are quite a few games being developed in it.
Again, if it isn't id or Blizzard, people think it won't be good. Linux is different from Windows, and unfortunately, a lot of people think you can't play games on it. Publishers won't publish on Linux so it furthers the problem.
Also PC gaming is still alive and well. They say that it will die every 5 years when the newest consoles are released. It always stays alive. The difference nowadays is that consoles and PC gaming tend to look more alike than before. Certain games run and feel better on a console than on a keyboard. Offtopic, but still. B-)
I have 3656.9 Bogomips. How many Bogomips do you have?
Hrmm, you won't buy a Linux PDA because the GUI is proprietary although the underlying os is GPL, but you'll use a Palm PDA which is 100% proprietary.
How free(speech) does it have to be before you'll support it, exactly?
include the $32 SCO embedded Linux license?
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
i'd love the be able to have a free software palm, but they dont really exist, so i have no reason to switch from palmos yet. that's all.
I mean, Sony's Clies, while not the bestest looking devices in the world, are still certainly snazzy looking enough to warrant inquiries from passers-by and non-technically fluent peoples. The same went for Handspring's sexy but not all that useful Visor Edge.
Come on geeks, we can be smart, but we can be sexy too. Rinkydink textured ABS with ovoid buttons and felt-marker-script lettering doesn't do us any good. Go minimal. Go architectural. Go intelligent. That's what we represent, isn't it?
Idunno. I have a VR3d. My second one(broke the first one). A lot of software was developed for the VR3 and things were going great, but the hardware just wasn't up to snuff. Broken screens, buttons, lids, and the occasional projectile stylus were more than the developer community could stand.
This new one looks too much like the old one. A revamped power system, more memory, expandability, and the reduction of buttons are all improvements, but the biggest problem with the VR3 was the screen.I will not buy the newest linux-based PDA until I see improvements to the case. The days when I would buy a block of wood with a penguin on it have passed.
I also have an IPAQ 3150(running Familiar Linux) and a Zaurus SL5000d. The Zaurus is my favorite. Native Linux, expandability, and durability seem to be its strong points.
As far as I can tell, Opie is a dead end: being an open source fork of Qt, the only license under which it is available is the GPL. That makes Opie an impossible platform for many commercial applications.
Areas where a Linux PDA could shine are gaming, inventory support, hospitals, instrument control, etc. But the developers of that kind of software simply are not going to make it open source, nor are their customers going to care whether it's open source or not. So, a GPL-only toolkit has no chance. But even the commercial version of Qt isn't all that attractive because if those people are going to throw in their lot with a commercial vendor, they might as well go with Microsoft and PPC: it's cheaper than Qt and more widely used.
Now, Opie/X11 might have a chance because it reuses all that effort that went into Opie but also opens up the platform for commercial apps.
Ultimately, GPL'ed or dual-licensed GUI toolkits just won't work in the long run--there are too many free or LGPL'ed alternatives to choose from.
I'd buy it but I don't want to have to pay SCO the $2 license fee.
Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. -- H. L. Mencken
http://gpe.handhelds.org/ looks slick
...does it run Linux? Oh, wait...
As a former owner of a Zaurus, I just feel like I have to post my rant about it here. Essentially, I hate the Qtopia environment and really, really hope something better comes out. The PIM apps are plain unusable, e.g. when you make a repeating calendar entry, you can't edit only one of them; you have to edit them all! Palm OS doesn't have such restrictions. Sure, I can use another calendar app, but then it can't sync with my computer, and believe me, you really do want to sync when your PDA crashes, and you lose everything on it.
Sharp and other companies are coming out with absolutely incredible PDAs hardware-wise. Unfortunately, they then install Qtopia on it. Ugh.
Definitely do not buy it. The first was utterly unusable due to extreme slowness and seeming lack of real multi-tasking. I was amazed they even bothered to put it out in such condition. The CPU is relatively slow in today's PD world. There is no support for standard cards for wifi and such, only memory, no room for a microdisk for instance. Extra hardware needed even for bluetooth? SIGH. I don't see anything at all compelling here.
Linux *could* become a PDA platform now. Maybe Ximian should take a break from evolution and write some nice palm stuff, or another company in the area of productivity software.
For games, part of the holdback is the lack of hardware-software integration (driver issues) for the games. Handheld/palm devices shouldn't experience such a setback, as 2D graphics have been good on 'nix for awhile (though X could use some support for hardward 2D primitive drawing).
The article is almost three years old. Didn't this thing get released, everyone bitched about the crappy screen and it faded away a month later?
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
99% (not a real calculation) of all linux-based appliances that have appeared on /. have never even hit the commercial markets.
I will admit that there have been some neat ideas here... but for the most part they have copied (and poorly at that) something that already exists. I would be REALLY hesitant to buy something just because its LINUX BASED from some startup company. I would rather have hardware that has ties with the evil empire but have a warranty that actually means something.
Anyone want to complile a list of Linux Based appliances that have gone mainstream (with the exception of webservers)
not that's what i'm talkin about
Use the commandline you lazy troll!
I'm more concerned about wifi. My agenda was a nice little pda, or would be if I could use ethernet instead of PPP.
I'll be sticking with my zaurus until I find a pda with a usb host controller, everlasting power cell, or wifi range equivalent to my iBook's.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Male circumcision is equal to removing the clitoral hood and frenulum. In the embryo, the clitoris and penis started out the same with the foreskin being equal in function to that of the clitoral hood.
I've been considering buying a PDA for 2-3 years, and now have money set aside for one. But I've delayed because I still haven't found the answer (possibly through not looking hard enough) to this question:
If I buy any normal FS/OSS based PDA (such as the Sharp Zaurus, or this one), can I *actually* wipe off everything that's on it, recompile all the software, and reinstall, in the same way as I could on a PC? To put it another way, if I want to add a progress indicator to GNU gzip, or make the error messages in BASH more offensive, or remove that annoying can I still do that on Linux/*BSD based PDA? Or is that Linux kernel somehow "locked on" there in some kind of ROM that can't be changed, or that can't be restored if it somehow gets lost, so that I have to live with the default configuration? More to the point, if a company distributes a GPL'd program locked into hardware in this way (even if what they claim is the source is provided separately, say, on a CD), are they violating the GPL?
After dealing with closed source software on other people's machines day in, day out for the past few years, to me, buying a PDA where I don't have that freedom would be a big step backwards - I wouldn't do it. Also, if a company really did make a PDA where they not only made it possible but also made it easy to recompile/replace any or all of the software on it, and put together a community web site and so on, wouldn't that have some appeal among the techies? I'm sure it'd get a couple of articles on Slashdot - and obviously it would still ship with a default software configuration that's fine for people who don't want to mess with stuff.
So one has developed a Linux PDA for under $499! They must have hired friggin' geniuses compared to many other companies. JAV
until they get linux on it?
Oh, wait. Nevermind.
I have a 5500. At first it was a major cool toy. I mean, it is so easy to impress your geek friends by running a webserver in your pocket. But then what?
Once the gee-whiz factor wore off, I was left with just that. A gee-whiz toy. I have yet to actually do anything with it.
When I had a Palm I used it daily. When I had a PocketPC, I got to reboot it every fifteen minutes and quickly dumped it. The Zaurus never has crashed on me, but I find myself leaving it at home more often than not.
I am going to get rid of the Zaurus soon and go back to the Palm platform. I got a lot more use out of their stuff. Sure, it might crash at the drop of a hat (though nothing like PPC2002 does) but at least Palm thought out the thing from the start instead of trying to be like everyone else.
Linux in a handheld is probably going to be very cool one day. Just not right now.
I would be extreemly hesitant to adopt anything that relied even in part on technology even remotely controlled by this group of "litigation is a viable business model" buzzards!
Just my own humble opinion!
The Matrix is real... But I'm only visiting!
The Matrix is real... but I'm only visiting!
This is different because it's more affordable, and it's much more pocketable than a Zaurus. I've got a Zaurus and a VR3 and it's the VR3 I carry about - because it doesn't hurt to actually put it in your pocket.
The early VR3 were fragile but the latest ones (rev.12) are reasonably robust. I hope the MX-7 is built on lessons learned from the VR3.
Softfield are a small company and pretty friendly to open-source developers. Sharp are OK but not so open.
If you want to play music, buy an iPod. If you want to watch video, get a portable DVD player. If you want a general purpose PDA that runs linux, you now have a choice of a few models... that's good IMHO
-Cam
you can buy pdas with 100 mhz more horsepower for $100 less here. you can also buy a brand new palm tungsten t1 with free veo camera for less ($199 last time i checked, direct from palm).
Since gzip is stream based, unlike bzip, you really can't add a progress indicator - gzip never knows how far along it is!
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Most people put their PDA in a case anyway, so in a way they are already skinnable. By the way, is it really all that difficult to create a good-looking PDA? So far only SONY seems to get it right.
If you find the Windows API displeasing, you can choose to develop applications using the .Net Compact Framework. It has a completely new set of API, made specifically for mobile devices, and you have the option to use C# and VB.NET
Why is it that these PDA thingies always
seem to have an approximately 200 Mhz CPU?
Can't they get a faster CPU to work with
these? I'll admit that although a computer
junkie, I don't know much about PDA's. I
just don't care for them. I just see reviews
and the specs always seem to list the CPU
as 200 or 206 Mhz, and I always think, wow
that is slow. Anyway... thank you.
So can I get NetHack on it? I like my Visor Edge, I can play Robotfindskitten on it, but memory addressing limitations keep NetHack off PalmOS.
Too busy staying alive... ~ R.A.
Simply put: IMHO I don't like the integrated phone/PDA's they are horrible, bulky, and down right inconvenient.
Now before anyone panics let me explain my otherwise irrational rational. When I think mobile ease of use I think a small hand held phone in my pocket as easy. However the display you see on the phone sucks. To be blunt, I cannot SSH from my phone. So the next best thing is a PDA.
My idea of a good mobile setup is a PDA in the car clove box ready to read mail, surf the web, and SSH to my home computer all connected to the internet via my cell phone attached by a simple cord. Since I do the same thing for my laptop this makes perfect sense.
Now I would not feel comfortable carrying a laptop on my back nor would I feel comfortable carrying a $400 mini computer on my hip. I would rather carry a sleek and sexy cell phone. Hence the division in functionality.
A cell phone for phone calls, a cable and PDA for internet browsing. And when I sit down at a coffee shop I use my laptop. Easy. Simple. And useful. The K.I.S.S. Method!
> SELECT * FROM brain_cells WHERE synaptic_rate > 0
0 row returned
What a great PDA... for me to poop on!
I looked into the abyss, and the abyss looked into me--and we both winked.
it is commercial, proprietary and krap, even worse than wince.