Ford To Move To Linux

KingDaveRa writes "The Register is reporting that motor giant Ford is switching to Linux for its sales systems, human resources, customer relations and infrastructure, referencing a report in yesterday's Scotland on Sunday. According to The Register, the biggest battle was over which Linux vendor to use - RedHat or SuSE." Update: 09/16 01:51 GMT by T : An anonymous reader points to this NewsForge report, according to which Ford is not moving to Linux.

Comments

Where do you want to go today?

[ChaoticChaos]

Microsoft is officially Found On Road Dead. ;-)

Re:Where do you want to go today?

[netsharc]

Fix Or Repair Daily describes Windows nicely. :)

R can also be "Reboot".

Re:Where do you want to go today?

[rusty0101]

Or, as in all too many cases,

Reinstall

-Rusty

What about Burlington in 1999?

[garcia]

Whoever won, the contract is a serious step forward for Linux in the corporporate market...

Are you meaning to tell me that Burlington Coat Factory's 1300 Linux boxes back in 1999 wasn't a major win for corporate Linux? ;-)

At the time I remembering thinking that it was a pretty important step in showing that Linux was a viable alternative. Apparently no one listened. Is anyone going to listen to Ford?

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[chef_raekwon]

Is anyone going to listen to Ford?

with the current state of Ford Vehicles...I'd say No.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[jeffkjo1]

Ford is everywhere... this will be used by their dealerships, salespeople, and everything in between. Ford employs nearly 370,000 people... that's a lot of people coming in contact with linux everyday.

I don't know about you, but the Burlington Coat Factory near me doesn't ever seem to have many customers, or employees.
The exact opposite can be said about the local Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda, Volvo, Land Rover (ok I'll stop) dealerships.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[Lawbeefaroni]

Burlington Coat Factory (NYSE: BCF) FY 2002 revenue: $2.72 Billion.

Ford Motor Company (NYSE: F) 6 month revenue to 6/2003: $81.56 Billion.

Source: finance.yahoo.com

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[worm eater]

For one thing, right now Linux is a hot news item, so people listen. Whereas the city of Munich changing OSs wouldn't be much of a story a few years ago, now it is. Of course, this doesn't mean everyone's going to switch, but one more major corp. switching to Linux, one more major Windoze worm outbreak, people start to notice.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[WindBourne]

Apparently no one listened.

Amazon, IBM, Walmart, and now Ford. The first 3 run profits during a time when many companies went out fo business. I would say some are listening.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[garcia]

great, these people will be using Linux desktops. How many of them use some sort of full-screened terminal application to access the information anyway?

Banks (while running OS/2 on the desktop) use full-screened VT-102 terminal emulators to access the bank's server. Have we ever seen those employees running to OS/2 because they used it at work?

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[johndoesovich]

no, but this is big for everyone. I use Microsoft goods at home and I cannot stand it. I am tired of the issues at home. I am tired of fixing my friends computers because the latest worm hit them. The point is you use what is familiar to you. We are working to implement linux as our sole solution here at the office. We have run into minor problems because of our financial system. Other than that, we are almost ready to plung into it. If I had no idea about computers but had some sort of logic, I would go for Linux because it is free and throw openoffice on top of that. It's beautiful. I would like to see Ford put out another release for openoffice assuming they use it.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[LMCBoy]

I use Microsoft goods at home and I cannot stand it.

whatsamatter, can't afford Linux? ;)

Muahahahahaha

[Bowie J. Poag]

Doesn't Gates drive a Ford? :)

Linux...

[Gibble]

Linux...First On Race Day

I like the sounds of that.

It makes a lot of sense.

[Valar]

For the purposes of any company, there are some good reasons to use linux. Firstly, you can often increase security. Secondly, you can reduce hardware costs, compared to windows. Thirdly, your employees probably won't be able to figure out how to play minesweeper on company time :)

Re:It makes a lot of sense.

[the_other_one]

They will all be playing nethack on company time.

does this mean

[sbma44]

thinkgeek will start carrying stickers of Calvin peeing on a Microsoft logo?

No Brainer

[Brahmastra]

If I were an IT manager, this is exactly what I would do. It is a cheaper option and more secure IF the administrator knows what he is doing. I would still keep Windows clients for the marketing and sales people so that they can create powerpoint presentations and smear bullshit everywhere to sell stuff

Re:No Brainer

[KodaK]

If I were an IT manager, this is exactly what I would do.

I am an IT manager, and it's not as easy as you think. First, you have core applications, the things that run your business. If you have a development staff, great! However, for the rest of the smaller guys out there we rely on a third party for our core software.

I work for a mortgage broker. I've got our infrastructure running on Linux, but we have to have Windows on the desktop so that our loan origination software will run. (I recently found out that they're switching their software to a .Net platform, so I can't even use Linux on the server if I stick with this software. The sales drone was all uppity about it "you're the only one that hasn't been excited about that." Yeah, I'm the only one who has to drop a few tens of thousands of dollars on an MS infrastructure....)

Anyway, back to my point. This is a wonderful move for Ford, and hopefully will add a little more weight to the cause, but not everybody can do it, unfortunately.

Application programming is a dying paradigm

[Amsterdam Vallon]

Most new, non-game applications these days are written for the Web.

This way, any platform can connect to the application and run it the same way as anyone else would on a Palm Pilot or Pocket PC or Linux or Solaris or Windows or whatever.

Through XML and standard Web technologies, we are making a revolution in availability. No longer does each client/end-user of the application have to download and install certain drivers or use a certain computer -- the application behaves and runs the same on any device.

When an app does have to be a traditional desktop program, don't get me wrong -- I know what works, and I would choose Linux. But for most all-new programs, bosses are increasingly and more often suggesting that these be written for the Web, and for the Web exclusively.

The Linux-vs.-Microsoft thing is dying.

Re:Application programming is a dying paradigm

[Richthofen80]

Yeah, except if it is, its the worst move ever. Compiled programs are still what run mission critical software. They're faster and more reliable. And its not as if the web still works the same on everyone's PC. Opera and Mozilla and IE6 might give three much different appearances to the same page.

I use a web-based call tracking application in my IT job. Its slow, buggy, and not enterprise worthy by any standard.

Re:Application programming is a dying paradigm

[stretch0611]

I agree. The browser is where applications are being written today. It is the reason why Microsoft used its monopoly to trample Netscape. The browser is a threat to Microsoft because it is a single, cross-platform environment suitable for application development.

The web browser has set back application development 20 years.

So what you are saying is that application development on a browser is like COBOL, FORTRAN, and Assembly?

We're in an age when even the smallest hardware store can buy a highly reliable Linux server and have MySQL and Apache running on it for under $500. All you need then is the software that'll keep your stock inventory, and the equipment to network your existing -- probably low spec -- PCs up, and off you go.

Absolutely Right. I recently just built an entire POS(Point of Sale) system for a mechanic. All I did was add a single server (w/ Linux, MySQL, and BlueDragon) added a network card to each machine he already had and now he has a reliable network aware application. Before, he had an old system that could only be run on a single computer. Now his mechanics can be updating maintenance records in the garage while his receptionist is billing customers in the office.

But web apps are a freakin headache for support, BECAUSE of their ability to run on anything.

If you stick to web standards (Not IE Standards), you can miminmize this. Admittedly, it also helps if you can make sure that everyone is using a modern browser. (Mozilla 1.0+, IE 5.5+, Netscape 6.0+)

Compiled programs are still what run mission critical software. They're faster and more reliable.

Compiled programs are faster... Yes. That is the biggest benefit. However, how much speed do you need? My POS system I mentioned above renders most pages in under one-half of a second, Only a few of the reports take a little longer. It is actually faster than the old compiled POS system he replaced. Admittedly, the old system had more data than it could handle, but with the new system I told him when there is more customer data than it can handle we could both retire.

As for reliablity, if your client machine crashes while running a compiled application it is possible to lose data. A web browser is stateless, (even though we use tricks to retain the current state) if a client machine crashes, the chance of losing data is minimal.

In the corporate world, because of problems with the limitations of browser based interfaces and the speed of computers companies are making a big push back in the direction of thick client applications

I disagree, one of the reasons why we are going in the direction of thin clients is that you only need to back-up and provide critical support for the server. It is cheapest to provide this support for the fewest number of computers necessary. The problem with thick-client is installing software updates to the client side and a concept experienced programmers refer to as DLL-Hell.

Huge, Huge, Huge Problem for Microsoft

[jpetts]

This is just the beginning of a whole slew of major players announcing the move to Linux. For each one that is announcing, there have got to be at least a dozen or more looking.

The fact that companies of the size of Ford are switching, rather than just using the threat of Linux as a stick with which to beat Microsoft, will be sending real shivers of fear up the spine of the Beast of Redmond. This is the point at which they have to start changing their business model, and fast, unless they want to spend a few years in the wilderness like IBM did after their business model died. They really don't have much time left...

Natural Progression?

[serutan]

A tree sprouts from the forest floor and grows to majestic height. For awhile it stands tall and massive, blocking the sunlight from other sprouts. Then eventually it falls over and becomes a log.

Note to Microsoft: "Tim-berrrrrr"

one question

[Dizzo]

the biggest battle was over which Linux vendor to use - RedHat or SuSE

So who won?

Ford dumped by Gates

[mm0mm]

Meanwhile, Bill Gates made an official announcement today that he is switching his Ford Pinto with Hyundai Excel. Gates insisted this is NOT an "act of retaliation whatsoever," but just a "matter of personal preference."

HELP!

[cgranade]

I hate Ford... I love Linux... what do I do? HELP!

Heh...

[cybermace5]

So Linus Torvalds is from Finland, right? The new motto for Linux could be...

wait for it...

"Built Fjord Tough."

Re:Heh...

[rolux]

Finland has lakes. The fjords is Norway.

The old Ford quote;

[KiwiEngineer]

"you can have it in any colour you like, as long as it is black" (Ford - about 1928 or so)

"you can have linux in any flavour you like as long as it is Redhat (or Suse)" (Ford - 2003)

Time for that old chestnut

[rf0]

Comparing Windows to a Car ...

At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon".

In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.

4. Occasionally, executing a manoeuvre such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.

5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.

6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light.

7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.

8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

10.You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.

I dare SCO

[earthforce_1]

to try sending Ford an invoice!

Come on Darl! :-D

Re:They'll come crying back

[TimmyJoeB]

I am a Ford Customer and I have never sent a Word, Excel or Powerpoint document to them. I would doubt that any Ford customer would send them a Word, Excel or Powerpoint document. Suppliers are going to have to adjust if Ford does this throughout their organization.

Re:Fraid not

[WindBourne]

Funny that you mention VW. They are busy also moving a lot of their software over to Linux. It is currently in late beta, but should be available soon for dealers.

Ford Without Windows?

[tds67]

Reminds me of my first car.

Servers not Workstations

[Anonymous Coward]

Ford IS NOT replacing any of their Windows workstations with Unix at present in fact they are in the middle of upgrading all W2K workstations with XP.

This is a server consolidation project moving all exisisting servers onto large (multi processor etc etc) Unix machines.

Re:Servers not Workstations

[codepunk]

Now how am I supposed to believe a anonymous coward.

Re:Fraid not

[capmilk]

That's only because of the free iPod that comes with the Beetle. ;)

It's a trend that suits almost everyone

[JusTyler]

I agree. The trend to produce major applications based on "the Web" (a term I find hard to use when referring to, say, intranets, but will accept) is one that benefits almost everyone.

We're in an age when even the smallest hardware store can buy a highly reliable Linux server and have MySQL and Apache running on it for under $500. All you need then is the software that'll keep your stock inventory, and the equipment to network your existing -- probably low spec -- PCs up, and off you go.

Web apps are beautiful in the way that small ma-and-pa outfits don't necessarily need to upgrade their crusty old 200MHz PCs bought in 1995. All they need is a Web browser (and perhaps some proprietary format to handle checkout scanners, and the like), and with a small investment in a server, they're up and running.

Switching from Ford

[john_smith_45678]

This is funny, because I know somebody who's switching FROM Ford:

Okay, now lets make Ford like Microsoft...

My Ford has an oil leak. Ford doesn't call to tell me to tell me there's a big problem with oil leaks and a fix is available, but I find out from a guy on the Internet that they will fix it for free. I get my car back home from the shop and the next day there's oil all over the floor. I call Ford and they tell me they'll fix it next week.

A month later a repair is available. On the way home from the shop I crash into a tree because the oil leak fix conflicted with the brake system. Ford says, yeah, that's been happening... there should be a fix for the fix next week. I spend more than the car is worth rebuilding it, (Ford said I should have test driven it before I drove it home.) but can't really drive it safely until the fixed fix is available. I get home from the shop without getting in an accident (after the fixed fix) and as I pull into my driveway my neighbor says, Hey bill, did you know you've got a pretty bad oil leak? Disgusted, I take my Ford to the dealer and want to buy another car, preferably non Ford. He informs me that all the dealers in the area carry only Fords. But, he says, the newest, fanciest, most expensive Ford has been completely redesigned and is guaranteed not to have oil leaks.

Without much choice, I tell the dealer I'll take the new Ford and would like to trade in my old Ford. He informs me the old one isn't worth anything, but for a few dollars off he can give me an upgrade. I just have to keep my old Ford at home and every time I want to start the engine of my new Ford, I have to put the key in the old one first. This works okay for awhile. (Although I have to have the new Ford rebuilt as well because I'm T-boned by a guy in an older Ford that just repaired his oil leak.) A little bit later I come out and my new Ford has an oil leak!

I call Ford and they tell me there will be a fix next week. The fix is available in a couple of months and I take it in for repair. Remembering my brake incident, I stomp on the brakes several times hard, check the lights, washers and air bag. It all works well. I try to drive home but can't get there because the interstate is blocked with leaky Fords that have been T-boned by leaky Fords with bad brakes. I try to pass the time by listening to the radio... but it doesn't work any more. Since I can't get home, I head back to the dealer to complain about the radio. They tell me they can get the radio working but the "work-around" will kill my rear defogger. If I wait another 6 months though, a new model is being released that won't have oil, brake or radio problems...

I get angry and drive out of town to a dealership I heard about that can supply me with a custom configured *NIX Automobile. The dealer is cool but the new *NIX is way harder to drive than the Ford. I like it though and decide to buy one. Unfortunately, there is some kind of law or agreement that says I have to pay for a Ford (even though I don't get it) as well a fee to have my new *NIX setup and delivered.

At this point I give up with the dealers, go buy the book "Rebuilding your Ford into a *NIX in 21 days", do so, and live happily ever after. ( Later, I have a good laugh when a Ford rep comes on TV and tells the world that the latest Ford fiasco could have been avoided if all owners would just give a spare set of house keys to them so they could come in whenever they want and work on them when the owners aren't around. )

http://lists.netsys.com/pipermail/full-disclosure/ 2003-September/009561.html

Well...put it this way

[xQuarkDS9x]

At least now they won't have to practice FORD on their computers - IE FIX OR REPAIR DAILY like they do with the cars. ^_^

Confirmation?

[interiot]

This is great news, and is something I'd expect to see picked up on online sites all over the internet. However, a Google news search turned up nothing more. And the Register story is little more than a reference to the Scotsman, with not much to indicate that the Register did any independant verification (eg. they bring up the question of which Ford picked, Suse or Mandrake, but don't mention any answer). In other words, it's essentially rumor at this point.

I don't have the balls to do it, but can anyone get Ford on the phone? Or are there any Ford.com people who read slashdot who can verify?

Red Hat or SUSE?

[Mostly a lurker]

One possible clue is a current consulting opportunity in Detroit, advertised on www.hotlinuxjobs.com:

Red Hat System Administrator - Advanced Server
Salary: 30-35/HR - Long Term Contract (1+ year) Detroit, MI -
JOB DESCRIPTION: Participate in developing the Ford global RedHat (RH) Advanced Server (AS) 2.1 Linux load.
...

Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK?

[inertia187]

"Ford, you're turning into a penguin, stop it!"

What about engineering

[kippy]

I work for an automotive software vendor. Ford is one of our biggest customers and they require that our development and releases be done on HPUX. We all hate HPUX around here but if the customer wants it, they get it.

I'm anxious to know if this Linux adoption will switch their engineering requirements. I guess only time will tell.

Obligatory..

[NegativeK]

Ford: We're switching to Linux.
Microsoft: Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.

(Shamelessly stolen from D.N.A.)

I agree, biggest win yet

[Ridgelift]

"That makes Ford's defection to Linux the biggest potential threat to Microsoft in the software developer's 28-year history"

Yeah, I agree. Microsoft has lost all credibility in the public eye for their ability to fix their permanently defective product line (watched the Comedy channels lately? Comedians are getting laughs at Microsoft's expense). Windows is simply getting in the way of people doing their work (updates, upgrades, security patch, REPEAT!).

Ford's a big name brand company, it's American as apple pie, and has nothing to do with technology. That Microsoft couldn't hang on to them speaks to the value proposition of Linux over Windows. To restate the quote above another way, this is the biggest win for Linux to date.

When Does An Avalanche Begin?

[4of12]

When Ballmer lost the Munich deal and went for an extended ski holiday in Switzerland, he already knew what was coming.

With all the licensing pain, arm-twisting upgrades, incompatible Office formats, treadmills from last year and the worms from this year, the momentum will gather and feed itself.

As more companies, governments and educational institutions worldwide adopt Linux, there will be more coders and money to make Linux more usable and an even more favorable migration path for users.

Two years from now everyone will be amazed except for the zealots who will be shaking their heads wondering "What took it so long?".

Recent conversation at M$

[endersdad]

Gates: Someone write a memo, employees are no longer allowed to drive Fords. They must switch to BMW.

Suit: Sir, remember that town in Germany that switched to Linux?

Gates: Volvo's then.

Suit: Sir, Sweeden is a socialist country, no doubt they'll be next.

Gates: Lexus then damnit!

Suit: Sir, those aisian countries are developing their own operating system.

Gates: That's it. Transfer all money budgeted for OS R&D into forming a new car company. Hell, we won't even have to change our slogan.

Actually a good point

[chia_monkey]

This is actually a good point. It's not just a coup for Linux vs. Microsoft, but a big "F you" to SCO by saying "yeah, we'll do Linux". I hope more companies realize this and stop halting their Linux work or other companies will start their Linux work and stop fearing SCO's threats. This will be interesting to watch...both MS and SCO.

SCO Sends Letter To Ford...

[jbottero]

So, I assume this means SCO will be sending Ford a very big bill soon...

Why choose, man?

[dasmegabyte]

the biggest battle was over which Linux vendor to use - RedHat or SuSE.

I guarantee you that the Ford motor company's IT department is bigger than either RedHat or SuSE. Why choose a distro when you can make your own system so easily? I mean, which is better: paying high priced consultants and smooth talking project managers to solve your emergency problems on their terms, or pressuring your own guys to do the same?

Plus, who wouldn't want to see Ford Linux? I may not like Ford cars, or Ford as a car company, but Ford as an engineering paradigm is something that I have respected for a LONG time. I even used to have a big Ford emblem on my first webserver...because it was as reliable as my old Ranger, which wasn't very reliable at all. It wouldn't have to be an official distribution, but wouldn't it be great if it was? Ford Linux, emphasis on secure embedded transaction systems. Direct competition with Microsoft in the market...and Linux on the dashboard of Fords, Cougars, Volvos, Jaguars...

And why is it so strange that Ford should make software? GM owns an insurance company and a bank. GE owns a damn TV network. Hell, this company we just partnered with is somehow owned by Niagra Mohawk, the power company responsible for the northeastern blackout last month. Their "core competency" may be automotive design, but if you've got a massive team of hackers tapping away at infrastructure code already, you might as well sell it. Use your name to take it to Joe Nascar's Dell...

Re:Not calvin

[LMCBoy]

Those stickers you see all over...are not Calvin and should not be thought of that way.

Well, Bill Watterson certainly thought of them that way; he stopped writing C&H because of the massive infringement of Calvin's likeness. Not because of any lost profits to him (he refused to license their likeness to *any* product), but because his beloved characters were being so crudely misrepresented.

Every time I see Calvin on the back of some moron's pickup truck, I can't help but think that that guy helped kill C&H. WTG, buddy. :(

Re:Not calvin

[senahj]

> Those stickers you see all over are not Calvin of Calvin and hobbes fames.
> They are similear, but different enough to not infringe.

They infringe.

People who buy and display them are beneath contempt -- they pollute the memory of The Greatest Comic Strip Evar Bar None.

OTOH, it's sort of a benefit that barbarians who either unaware of such considerations or who don't care publicly identify themselves in this way -- a little like the busty chrome silhouette commonly seen on the backs of trucks, which concisely convey the message "Driver Is Neanderthal".

"There's treasure everywhere." Calvin

Ford move to Linux untrue!

[bigbadwlf]

According to this article at NewsForge, the Ford move to Linux is untrue.

-- snip --
Joan Witte, Communications Manager for Ford Motor Information Technology, had this statement to make late this afternoon when I called her at her Detroit office about a story being reported that Ford was moving to Linux.

Witte said "Like any other company, Ford Motor is looking at Linux, primarily in the application space. We presently have an enterprise-wide agreement with Microsoft to handle our collaborative solutions. We aren't contemplating using Linux in this area, and don't contemplate doing that in the foreseeable future."
-- snip --

STORY IS UNTRUE - LINK

[FreeLinux]

Newsforge reports is reporting that this story is untrue. Sad but, as I suspected.

Re:STORY IS UNTRUE - LINK

[ksheff]

The Newsforge people called someone in Detroit. The Register article is referencing an article in a Scottish newspaper. It's quite possible that Ford's UK divisions or all of Ford's European divisions are switching to Linux and the people in Detroit know nothing about it.