Ford To Move To Linux

KingDaveRa writes "The Register is reporting that motor giant Ford is switching to Linux for its sales systems, human resources, customer relations and infrastructure, referencing a report in yesterday's Scotland on Sunday. According to The Register, the biggest battle was over which Linux vendor to use - RedHat or SuSE." Update: 09/16 01:51 GMT by T : An anonymous reader points to this NewsForge report, according to which Ford is not moving to Linux.

Comments

Where do you want to go today?

[ChaoticChaos]

Microsoft is officially Found On Road Dead. ;-)

Re:Where do you want to go today?

[netsharc]

Fix Or Repair Daily describes Windows nicely. :)

R can also be "Reboot".

Re:Where do you want to go today?

[rusty0101]

Or, as in all too many cases,

Reinstall

-Rusty

What about Burlington in 1999?

[garcia]

Whoever won, the contract is a serious step forward for Linux in the corporporate market...

Are you meaning to tell me that Burlington Coat Factory's 1300 Linux boxes back in 1999 wasn't a major win for corporate Linux? ;-)

At the time I remembering thinking that it was a pretty important step in showing that Linux was a viable alternative. Apparently no one listened. Is anyone going to listen to Ford?

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[chef_raekwon]

Is anyone going to listen to Ford?

with the current state of Ford Vehicles...I'd say No.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[jeffkjo1]

Ford is everywhere... this will be used by their dealerships, salespeople, and everything in between. Ford employs nearly 370,000 people... that's a lot of people coming in contact with linux everyday.

I don't know about you, but the Burlington Coat Factory near me doesn't ever seem to have many customers, or employees.
The exact opposite can be said about the local Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda, Volvo, Land Rover (ok I'll stop) dealerships.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[Lawbeefaroni]

Burlington Coat Factory (NYSE: BCF) FY 2002 revenue: $2.72 Billion.

Ford Motor Company (NYSE: F) 6 month revenue to 6/2003: $81.56 Billion.

Source: finance.yahoo.com

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[worm eater]

For one thing, right now Linux is a hot news item, so people listen. Whereas the city of Munich changing OSs wouldn't be much of a story a few years ago, now it is. Of course, this doesn't mean everyone's going to switch, but one more major corp. switching to Linux, one more major Windoze worm outbreak, people start to notice.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[WindBourne]

Apparently no one listened.

Amazon, IBM, Walmart, and now Ford. The first 3 run profits during a time when many companies went out fo business. I would say some are listening.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[TimmyJoeB]

1) As stated before Ford is huge when compared to BCF.
2) Ford has a bunch of suppliers that will swith with Ford.
3) Ford has a bunch of dealers who will be switching
4) This is huge compared to BCF.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[garcia]

great, these people will be using Linux desktops. How many of them use some sort of full-screened terminal application to access the information anyway?

Banks (while running OS/2 on the desktop) use full-screened VT-102 terminal emulators to access the bank's server. Have we ever seen those employees running to OS/2 because they used it at work?

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[Daniel Phillips]

right now Linux is a hot news item, so people listen.

Right, and the ironic thing is, before the SCO suit, many people hadn't heard of Linux, or weren't taking it seriously. Now they have, and do.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[johndoesovich]

no, but this is big for everyone. I use Microsoft goods at home and I cannot stand it. I am tired of the issues at home. I am tired of fixing my friends computers because the latest worm hit them. The point is you use what is familiar to you. We are working to implement linux as our sole solution here at the office. We have run into minor problems because of our financial system. Other than that, we are almost ready to plung into it. If I had no idea about computers but had some sort of logic, I would go for Linux because it is free and throw openoffice on top of that. It's beautiful. I would like to see Ford put out another release for openoffice assuming they use it.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[LMCBoy]

I use Microsoft goods at home and I cannot stand it.

whatsamatter, can't afford Linux? ;)

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[shellbeach]

my wife, she wigged on me when I went linux. she could not use microsoft money. I need to find another alternative to everything she uses then she cannot object to it.

The alternative is called dual-booting :) That's how my partner and I use the same computer. From the perspective of someone who uses a computer as simply a tool, not a whole philosophy, the problem is that if you already use and are familiar with MS software then linux/OOo/whatever will always be second best - you're happier with what you're most comfortable with.

Most people switch to linux because of two reasons - either they hate MS so much they want to take the plunge into a completely new environment, or they believe in open-source software so much that they're willing to make sacrifices. Personally, I think linux is wonderful, but then I believe in the philosophy and I love programming - which I find much, much easier to do in linux than in Windows. But that's not what's important to most people, such as my partner and probably your wife ...

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[Anti-HanzoSan]

Banks (while running OS/2 on the desktop) use full-screened VT-102 terminal emulators to access the bank's server. Have we ever seen those employees running to OS/2 because they used it at work?

That really isn't the point. While the employees themselves may not bring Linux home with them directly, the fact that a company as big as Ford is using it as a desktop will encourage third parties to create applications for it. Also, if SuSE and Red Hat are making some money from Linux on the desktop rather than just on the server, they'll have some incentive to divert more resources to developing their desktop versions.

An ever-friendlier Linux desktop with a healthy selection of 3rd party commercial apps might ultimately be very attractive to a home user.

Re:What about Burlington in 1999?

[goon america]

uh, Amazon?

HTTP/1.1 302 Found
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:05:43 GMT
Server: Stronghold/2.4.2 Apache/1.3.6 C2NetEU/2412 ( Unix ) mod_fastcgi/2.2.12
Set-Cookie: skin=; domain=.amazon.com; path=/; expires=Wed, 01-Aug-01 12:00:00 GMT
Location: http://www.amazon.com:80/exec/obidos/subst/home/ho me.html
nnCoection: close
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

Then again, look at that "nnCoection" (AKA "Connection") bit....

Muahahahahaha

[Bowie J. Poag]

Doesn't Gates drive a Ford? :)

Re:Muahahahahaha

[geekBass]

Doesn't Gates drive a Ford?

No, he drives a BMW.

This too

[essiescreet]

http://www.casi-rusco.com Bought by GE while they were porting there enterprise security System to RH 7. They also have several other projects on RedHat...

Linux...

[Gibble]

Linux...First On Race Day

I like the sounds of that.

It makes a lot of sense.

[Valar]

For the purposes of any company, there are some good reasons to use linux. Firstly, you can often increase security. Secondly, you can reduce hardware costs, compared to windows. Thirdly, your employees probably won't be able to figure out how to play minesweeper on company time :)

Re:It makes a lot of sense.

[the_other_one]

They will all be playing nethack on company time.

Re:It makes a lot of sense.

[sniggly]

Not to mention theyll start posting rude anti MS statements AC on slashdot!

does this mean

[sbma44]

thinkgeek will start carrying stickers of Calvin peeing on a Microsoft logo?

No Brainer

[Brahmastra]

If I were an IT manager, this is exactly what I would do. It is a cheaper option and more secure IF the administrator knows what he is doing. I would still keep Windows clients for the marketing and sales people so that they can create powerpoint presentations and smear bullshit everywhere to sell stuff

Re:No Brainer

[KodaK]

If I were an IT manager, this is exactly what I would do.

I am an IT manager, and it's not as easy as you think. First, you have core applications, the things that run your business. If you have a development staff, great! However, for the rest of the smaller guys out there we rely on a third party for our core software.

I work for a mortgage broker. I've got our infrastructure running on Linux, but we have to have Windows on the desktop so that our loan origination software will run. (I recently found out that they're switching their software to a .Net platform, so I can't even use Linux on the server if I stick with this software. The sales drone was all uppity about it "you're the only one that hasn't been excited about that." Yeah, I'm the only one who has to drop a few tens of thousands of dollars on an MS infrastructure....)

Anyway, back to my point. This is a wonderful move for Ford, and hopefully will add a little more weight to the cause, but not everybody can do it, unfortunately.

Re:No Brainer

[King_TJ]

IMHO, in cases like these, all that's really happened is the stakes are higher. If you feel you're getting forced up against a wall, where you're suddenly looking at a $30,000+ investment in MS hardware just because some "core business application" requires it - maybe it starts making sense to develop your own alternative application?

I'm surely not suggesting this is an easy decision to make, but it's worth seriously looking into. If you have a good, solid Linux-based server environment already - your costs to break that up are going to be much higher than just the initial cost of the Microsoft software and rollout!

If I were in your shoes, I'd really start thinking about hiring a few good software developers, and putting them on a project to build your company some custom loan origination software for Linux. If done correctly, it would offer numerous side benefits, such as the flexibility to tailor it to exactly what your business needs, instead of settling for what you're handed in a particular version of someone else's program. Bug fixes? Can be done as quickly as your developers can get to them.

I used to work for a company that built their own in-house application for order processing and report generation. It may have turned into the most expensive computer-related business decision they ever made - BUT, that application also became the cornerstone for the company. Competitors even attempted to buy the company out, simply to get their hands on that application - because it met a need they couldn't fill with "off the shelf" products.

Application programming is a dying paradigm

[Amsterdam Vallon]

Most new, non-game applications these days are written for the Web.

This way, any platform can connect to the application and run it the same way as anyone else would on a Palm Pilot or Pocket PC or Linux or Solaris or Windows or whatever.

Through XML and standard Web technologies, we are making a revolution in availability. No longer does each client/end-user of the application have to download and install certain drivers or use a certain computer -- the application behaves and runs the same on any device.

When an app does have to be a traditional desktop program, don't get me wrong -- I know what works, and I would choose Linux. But for most all-new programs, bosses are increasingly and more often suggesting that these be written for the Web, and for the Web exclusively.

The Linux-vs.-Microsoft thing is dying.

Re:Application programming is a dying paradigm

[Anonymous Coward]

" No longer does each client/end-user of the application have to download and install certain drivers or use a certain computer"

right they just need to download and install a certain web browser.

Re:Application programming is a dying paradigm

[klocwerk]

but web apps are a freakin headache for support, BECAUSE of their ability to run on anything.
jack of all trades, master of none.

Can you tell I work at a helpdesk? heh.

Re:Application programming is a dying paradigm

[Richthofen80]

Yeah, except if it is, its the worst move ever. Compiled programs are still what run mission critical software. They're faster and more reliable. And its not as if the web still works the same on everyone's PC. Opera and Mozilla and IE6 might give three much different appearances to the same page.

I use a web-based call tracking application in my IT job. Its slow, buggy, and not enterprise worthy by any standard.

Re:Application programming is a dying paradigm

[truthsearch]

I'm seeing the same trend, but I believe to a large degree it's a mistake. The web was originally designed for sharing of documents, with minimal interactive capabilities added later. Most corporate desktop apps do much more than just display data and require much user interaction, but are being ported to the web. My development team's main application is for contact, account, and time management, plus reporting. It's data intensive and lets the user lay out lots of windows with a variety of info. The boss has us rewriting the entire app on the web because some other PHBs think it looks cool. Now the users will be forced to go through many more clicks and can't display as much data at the same time without opening many web browser instances. Being on the web it also can't easily be as "smart". For example, we can have alerts automatically pop up on schedule (kinda like Outlook) in a client app, but not in an HTML page.

It seems too many apps are going the way of the web when a client app would be best to handle a wide variety of user interaction.

Re:Application programming is a dying paradigm

[Telastyn]

And they do it for all the wrong reasons.

Web apps are being chosen because they are the new trend. They do not provide a better platform for the app. They do not provide an open standard for use. They do not provide ubiquitous access. All they provide is a pre-written network transport because far too often webapps are being written by ASP monkeys who couldn't write socket code if their lives depended on it.

Re:Application programming is a dying paradigm

[gaudior]

They are also being written by perl and C programmers who are tired of writing socket code, and want to get to the heart of the matter: the application the user needs to work.

Re:Application programming is a dying paradigm

[stretch0611]

I agree. The browser is where applications are being written today. It is the reason why Microsoft used its monopoly to trample Netscape. The browser is a threat to Microsoft because it is a single, cross-platform environment suitable for application development.

The web browser has set back application development 20 years.

So what you are saying is that application development on a browser is like COBOL, FORTRAN, and Assembly?

We're in an age when even the smallest hardware store can buy a highly reliable Linux server and have MySQL and Apache running on it for under $500. All you need then is the software that'll keep your stock inventory, and the equipment to network your existing -- probably low spec -- PCs up, and off you go.

Absolutely Right. I recently just built an entire POS(Point of Sale) system for a mechanic. All I did was add a single server (w/ Linux, MySQL, and BlueDragon) added a network card to each machine he already had and now he has a reliable network aware application. Before, he had an old system that could only be run on a single computer. Now his mechanics can be updating maintenance records in the garage while his receptionist is billing customers in the office.

But web apps are a freakin headache for support, BECAUSE of their ability to run on anything.

If you stick to web standards (Not IE Standards), you can miminmize this. Admittedly, it also helps if you can make sure that everyone is using a modern browser. (Mozilla 1.0+, IE 5.5+, Netscape 6.0+)

Compiled programs are still what run mission critical software. They're faster and more reliable.

Compiled programs are faster... Yes. That is the biggest benefit. However, how much speed do you need? My POS system I mentioned above renders most pages in under one-half of a second, Only a few of the reports take a little longer. It is actually faster than the old compiled POS system he replaced. Admittedly, the old system had more data than it could handle, but with the new system I told him when there is more customer data than it can handle we could both retire.

As for reliablity, if your client machine crashes while running a compiled application it is possible to lose data. A web browser is stateless, (even though we use tricks to retain the current state) if a client machine crashes, the chance of losing data is minimal.

In the corporate world, because of problems with the limitations of browser based interfaces and the speed of computers companies are making a big push back in the direction of thick client applications

I disagree, one of the reasons why we are going in the direction of thin clients is that you only need to back-up and provide critical support for the server. It is cheapest to provide this support for the fewest number of computers necessary. The problem with thick-client is installing software updates to the client side and a concept experienced programmers refer to as DLL-Hell.

Huge, Huge, Huge Problem for Microsoft

[jpetts]

This is just the beginning of a whole slew of major players announcing the move to Linux. For each one that is announcing, there have got to be at least a dozen or more looking.

The fact that companies of the size of Ford are switching, rather than just using the threat of Linux as a stick with which to beat Microsoft, will be sending real shivers of fear up the spine of the Beast of Redmond. This is the point at which they have to start changing their business model, and fast, unless they want to spend a few years in the wilderness like IBM did after their business model died. They really don't have much time left...

Re:Huge, Huge, Huge Problem for Microsoft

[Mostly a lurker]

It does seem significant based on the headlines, but I am concerned that all the coverage of this so far comes from that one report in the Scotland on Sunday, and that report was not exactly bursting with details.

I am waiting to see some further independent coverage before getting too excited.

Re:Huge, Huge, Huge Problem for Microsoft

[rsborg]

This is the point at which they have to start changing their business model, and fast, unless they want to spend a few years in the wilderness like IBM did after their business model died. They really don't have much time left...

Believe you me, I despise the Great Redmond Beast as much as any other /.'er. But when a company has over 2x their yearly revenue in savings (ie, $50Billion or so), they can afford to spend a few years in the wilderness. I'd say they have quite a good deal of time left... now if you're talking about other companies that are willing to deal with them after their dirty laundry was aired with the DOJ affair.. I'd agree that might be their most limiting resource.

Re:Huge, Huge, Huge Problem for Microsoft

[OneFix at Work]

Umh, actually...

This is just the beginning of a whole slew of major players announcing the move to Linux.

Tell that to SGI...

This has already started to happen in the tech sector, the film industry, and many governments have already made the switch...not to underestimate this move, but it's happening/happened to some extent in every industry. Some have been small, others (like the film industry) have been massive.

The fact that companies of the size of Ford are switching, rather than just using the threat of Linux as a stick with which to beat Microsoft, will be sending real shivers of fear up the spine of the Beast of Redmond.

Not really...M$ has long realized that their OS division is going bye-bye...not because of Linux, but because their major source of revenue (the desktop market) has hit a wall as far as technology is concerned.

There isn't much for M$ to do in the realm of new features except maybe eye-candy and noone (ok, very few) is going to buy a new OS for more eye candy.

Think back, when was the last time you heard of someone buying a retail boxed version of a M$ OS for an old machine???

This is the point at which they have to start changing their business model, and fast, unless they want to spend a few years in the wilderness like IBM did after their business model died.

They already have...every heard of .Net? .Net is M$'s way of breaking into the content provider market...you know...low profit margins, customer support out the $#@!...

M$ knows it has to change, they're just trying to milk their current business model for all it's worth...

Re:Huge, Huge, Huge Problem for Microsoft

[EnderWiggnz]

msft's business model problem is that they never set up a services group that was profitable.

Re:Huge, Huge, Huge Problem for Microsoft

[HungWeiLo]

I was interviewing with them last year (got the job, but had to decline it), and believe me - they were really gung-ho on Linux. Even the top enchilada PHB CIO at Ford who gave the welcoming speech talked about it.

Re:Huge, Huge, Huge Problem for Microsoft

[iabervon]

Right, their current money-maker is Office. Unfortunately, that's not going to help them on Linux, since people who are leaving Windows are doing so for reasons which apply equally to Office and Office doesn't even run on Linux presently.

MS has also not decided that their OS is going to die; they've decided that their OS is complete (at least while they rethink the entire OS metaphor for Longhorn). They're betting on people sticking with Windows XP for the forseeable future, not ditching Windows entirely. If people switch to Linux, MS doesn't have software to sell them, which is a problem for more than the OS division.

If Linux takes over a significant portion of the corporate desktop, MS will have to port to Linux, change their stance on the GPL, and lose a lot of monopoly power.

Natural Progression?

[serutan]

A tree sprouts from the forest floor and grows to majestic height. For awhile it stands tall and massive, blocking the sunlight from other sprouts. Then eventually it falls over and becomes a log.

Note to Microsoft: "Tim-berrrrrr"

one question

[Dizzo]

the biggest battle was over which Linux vendor to use - RedHat or SuSE

So who won?

Re:one question

[Khomar]

According to the article:

Our understanding is that the battle boiled down to one between Red Hat and SuSE, with the signs earlier this year being that Red Hat might just have got the deal. Ford seemed to want a Red Hat systems admin in Detroit back in January, anyway, but it'd maybe make some sense to use the local player in Germany, and our sources claim SuSE and Red Hat both pitched in the States, so you could maybe view the job as being more about bringing Linux servers into the infrastructure than specifically running Red Hat.

While that doesn't answer your question, just in case you didn't actually read the article, there is a little more information for you. ;-)

Does anyone know any more details?

Re:ford moves to linux

[chef_raekwon]

to match it shit cars with a shit os...

i thought i was at slashdot???
wtf?

where is the 'new' linux hangout??

Ford dumped by Gates

[mm0mm]

Meanwhile, Bill Gates made an official announcement today that he is switching his Ford Pinto with Hyundai Excel. Gates insisted this is NOT an "act of retaliation whatsoever," but just a "matter of personal preference."

Have you driven a Ford Lately?

[Honest Man]

"the biggest battle was over which Linux vendor to use - RedHat or SuSE"

Its been years, but I'm impressed with Ford for this move. Something tells me MS wont bee too pleased though.

Now I want to see new car prices drop, as this should save them tons of money on upgrades, etc.

Now if they would just fix the computers in their cars, so they would run better.. lol

HELP!

[cgranade]

I hate Ford... I love Linux... what do I do? HELP!

Re:HELP!

[satterth]

Come on, it's just a sales system. It's not like the onboard computer is running linux. I wouldn't base a car/truck purchase based on their sales sytem.

Heh...

[cybermace5]

So Linus Torvalds is from Finland, right? The new motto for Linux could be...

wait for it...

"Built Fjord Tough."

Re:Heh...

[rolux]

Finland has lakes. The fjords is Norway.

Re:Heh...

[DataCannibal]

Due to your geography knowledge I'd hazard a guess that you are American, right? Now go ask Garrison Keillor were the Fjords are

Re:They'll come crying back

[Krugon]

After all, what is Open Office for?

The old Ford quote;

[KiwiEngineer]

"you can have it in any colour you like, as long as it is black" (Ford - about 1928 or so)

"you can have linux in any flavour you like as long as it is Redhat (or Suse)" (Ford - 2003)

Time for that old chestnut

[rf0]

Comparing Windows to a Car ...

At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon".

In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.

4. Occasionally, executing a manoeuvre such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.

5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.

6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light.

7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.

8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

10.You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.

I dare SCO

[earthforce_1]

to try sending Ford an invoice!

Come on Darl! :-D

Re:They'll come crying back

[TimmyJoeB]

I am a Ford Customer and I have never sent a Word, Excel or Powerpoint document to them. I would doubt that any Ford customer would send them a Word, Excel or Powerpoint document. Suppliers are going to have to adjust if Ford does this throughout their organization.

Re:Fraid not

[WindBourne]

Funny that you mention VW. They are busy also moving a lot of their software over to Linux. It is currently in late beta, but should be available soon for dealers.

Ford Without Windows?

[tds67]

Reminds me of my first car.

Servers not Workstations

[Anonymous Coward]

Ford IS NOT replacing any of their Windows workstations with Unix at present in fact they are in the middle of upgrading all W2K workstations with XP.

This is a server consolidation project moving all exisisting servers onto large (multi processor etc etc) Unix machines.

Re:Servers not Workstations

[codepunk]

Now how am I supposed to believe a anonymous coward.

Re:Servers not Workstations

[davetza]

doh

Re:Fraid not

[capmilk]

That's only because of the free iPod that comes with the Beetle. ;)

It sounds like a Dilbert

[steveha]

Wow. Ford is buying new computers without floppy disk drives... and Dell is so proud they released a white paper about it!

"Realizing that it was purchasing obsolete technology that consumes space and costs money, Ford Motor Company began evaluating its alternatives with help from Dell."

They should have interviewed Steve Jobs. I'm sure he'd have given them some great quotes about floppy-less PCs.

Maybe Dell will next write a white paper about PCs without PS/2 keyboard or mouse ports!

steveha

Ford and SAP

[I8TheWorm]

Since Ford is an SAP shop the transition shouldn't be a painful one at all, other than the possibility of end users filling up the help desk cue with mundane requests.

So what you're saying is

[DrSkwid]

That you would like a single point of failure, the web browser, to be entirely out of your control and in the hands of a third party that doesn't care about the needs of your business.

You would like it to be in the hands of people who build obsolescence into their products either by discontinuing support for your happily working Operating System and Userland or by pushing new standards into the common platform.

By funneling the majority of your applications through one client API you could end up staring at "we have to upgrade the browser to make Application X work but Application Y breaks".

The web browser has set back application development 20 years.

Re:well then

[chef_raekwon]

Like A Rock(TM)

isn't this GM's trademark?
or did I miss something?

It's a trend that suits almost everyone

[JusTyler]

I agree. The trend to produce major applications based on "the Web" (a term I find hard to use when referring to, say, intranets, but will accept) is one that benefits almost everyone.

We're in an age when even the smallest hardware store can buy a highly reliable Linux server and have MySQL and Apache running on it for under $500. All you need then is the software that'll keep your stock inventory, and the equipment to network your existing -- probably low spec -- PCs up, and off you go.

Web apps are beautiful in the way that small ma-and-pa outfits don't necessarily need to upgrade their crusty old 200MHz PCs bought in 1995. All they need is a Web browser (and perhaps some proprietary format to handle checkout scanners, and the like), and with a small investment in a server, they're up and running.

You don't seem to understand how big this win is.

[Sphere1952]

Every Ford supplier will now be switching to Linux.

Switching from Ford

[john_smith_45678]

This is funny, because I know somebody who's switching FROM Ford:

Okay, now lets make Ford like Microsoft...

My Ford has an oil leak. Ford doesn't call to tell me to tell me there's a big problem with oil leaks and a fix is available, but I find out from a guy on the Internet that they will fix it for free. I get my car back home from the shop and the next day there's oil all over the floor. I call Ford and they tell me they'll fix it next week.

A month later a repair is available. On the way home from the shop I crash into a tree because the oil leak fix conflicted with the brake system. Ford says, yeah, that's been happening... there should be a fix for the fix next week. I spend more than the car is worth rebuilding it, (Ford said I should have test driven it before I drove it home.) but can't really drive it safely until the fixed fix is available. I get home from the shop without getting in an accident (after the fixed fix) and as I pull into my driveway my neighbor says, Hey bill, did you know you've got a pretty bad oil leak? Disgusted, I take my Ford to the dealer and want to buy another car, preferably non Ford. He informs me that all the dealers in the area carry only Fords. But, he says, the newest, fanciest, most expensive Ford has been completely redesigned and is guaranteed not to have oil leaks.

Without much choice, I tell the dealer I'll take the new Ford and would like to trade in my old Ford. He informs me the old one isn't worth anything, but for a few dollars off he can give me an upgrade. I just have to keep my old Ford at home and every time I want to start the engine of my new Ford, I have to put the key in the old one first. This works okay for awhile. (Although I have to have the new Ford rebuilt as well because I'm T-boned by a guy in an older Ford that just repaired his oil leak.) A little bit later I come out and my new Ford has an oil leak!

I call Ford and they tell me there will be a fix next week. The fix is available in a couple of months and I take it in for repair. Remembering my brake incident, I stomp on the brakes several times hard, check the lights, washers and air bag. It all works well. I try to drive home but can't get there because the interstate is blocked with leaky Fords that have been T-boned by leaky Fords with bad brakes. I try to pass the time by listening to the radio... but it doesn't work any more. Since I can't get home, I head back to the dealer to complain about the radio. They tell me they can get the radio working but the "work-around" will kill my rear defogger. If I wait another 6 months though, a new model is being released that won't have oil, brake or radio problems...

I get angry and drive out of town to a dealership I heard about that can supply me with a custom configured *NIX Automobile. The dealer is cool but the new *NIX is way harder to drive than the Ford. I like it though and decide to buy one. Unfortunately, there is some kind of law or agreement that says I have to pay for a Ford (even though I don't get it) as well a fee to have my new *NIX setup and delivered.

At this point I give up with the dealers, go buy the book "Rebuilding your Ford into a *NIX in 21 days", do so, and live happily ever after. ( Later, I have a good laugh when a Ford rep comes on TV and tells the world that the latest Ford fiasco could have been avoided if all owners would just give a spare set of house keys to them so they could come in whenever they want and work on them when the owners aren't around. )

http://lists.netsys.com/pipermail/full-disclosure/ 2003-September/009561.html

Microsoft is an Ex-parrot?

[jabber01]

Pining for the Fords?

Well...put it this way

[xQuarkDS9x]

At least now they won't have to practice FORD on their computers - IE FIX OR REPAIR DAILY like they do with the cars. ^_^

Windoze on the client

[pjrc]

Does "for its sales systems, human resources, customer relations and infrastructure" really mean any rank-and-file Ford employees will every actually see Linux, KDE or Gnome, and other linux-based stuff.

Or does it just mean they'll be using IE on Windows and some hidden servers they never see will be doing all the back-end processing for their browser-based sales system, human resources and customer relations applications?

Deploying linux server-side is old news, and (after actually reading both articles) I really don't see language that indicates Ford's linux decision is anything but server-side infrastructure. Did I miss the client-side comment that make this "a serious step forward for Linux in the corporate market" ?

Re:Windoze on the client

[pjrc]

Re-reading the Register Article yet again, it indeed does not look good for Linux client-side...

Quoting from the article:

.... so you could maybe view the job as being more about bringing Linux servers into the infrastructure than specifically running Red Hat.

[snip, linux hype] ... But presumably there are still going to be Windows clients in there - by coincidence, we note that this quarter Dell will begin saving the company from the legacy diskette drive.

So the dozens of "this is wonderful news" slashdot comments, regarding the notion linux client "exposure", are all just wishful thinking. There is no reason to believe Ford is deploying Linux clients, and these two phrases definately give the impression that this is just a linux server application and Ford's employees using the system will be running IE on Windoze and will never even know (or care) if Linux, Windows, Solaris, HP/UX or some other system is responsible for actually making it all work behind the scenes.

At this point, "the biggest potential threat to Microsoft in the software developer's 28-year history" (Scotsman article) or "serious step forward for Linux in the corp. market" (Register article) is just a lot of hype.

Most Ford employees will never even know Linux is running on the server. Neither will most of Ford's suppliers. Many thousands of Ford emplyees will not suddently be using Open Office and Mozilla and start insisting on others to use open document formats and standard compliant html. And all sorts of other wishful thinking expressed here in these slashdot comments will not come to pass (at least not as a result of Ford's recent decision). All this really means is that Ford will be added to an already long list of well known corporations who decided to deploy Linux server for some specific applications. All the far-flung predictions about how this is some critical turning point for linux adoption, especially on the client side, are just overrated hype.

EDI

[chill]

Most of the supplier's information will come as EDI (Electronic Data Interchange). Big companies like Ford, GM, Wal-Mart dictate the data format to the suppliers, not the other way around.

Customers don't send Ford .doc, .xls or .ppt files. E-mail, maybe.

The vast majority of MS Office files are going to be internally generated, and Open/Star Office can handle them well enough.

Confirmation?

[interiot]

This is great news, and is something I'd expect to see picked up on online sites all over the internet. However, a Google news search turned up nothing more. And the Register story is little more than a reference to the Scotsman, with not much to indicate that the Register did any independant verification (eg. they bring up the question of which Ford picked, Suse or Mandrake, but don't mention any answer). In other words, it's essentially rumor at this point.

I don't have the balls to do it, but can anyone get Ford on the phone? Or are there any Ford.com people who read slashdot who can verify?

Red Hat or SUSE?

[Mostly a lurker]

One possible clue is a current consulting opportunity in Detroit, advertised on www.hotlinuxjobs.com:

Red Hat System Administrator - Advanced Server
Salary: 30-35/HR - Long Term Contract (1+ year) Detroit, MI -
JOB DESCRIPTION: Participate in developing the Ford global RedHat (RH) Advanced Server (AS) 2.1 Linux load.
...

Re:Red Hat or SUSE?

[codepunk]

So what would the linux admin do for the other 364 days?

Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK?

[inertia187]

"Ford, you're turning into a penguin, stop it!"

What about engineering

[kippy]

I work for an automotive software vendor. Ford is one of our biggest customers and they require that our development and releases be done on HPUX. We all hate HPUX around here but if the customer wants it, they get it.

I'm anxious to know if this Linux adoption will switch their engineering requirements. I guess only time will tell.

Re:What about engineering

[wkcole]

FWIW, I know from professional acquaintances here in Detroit that Ford also has Solaris machines. In the end, there is no such thing as a one-platform company of the Fortune 100 scale. Even MS has people who use Macs and they probably have at least experimental machines running just about every other OS.

For an 'old economy' business, switching 'primary' platforms isn't something that CAN be done in less than a few years and is something that is not usually done without a lot of planning and in very small steps. I would expect their engineering software to switch platforms on the sort of timeframe that engineering jobs turn over at Ford (i.e. not terribly fast.)

RedHat or SuSe?

[bryam]

Doesn't matter if they insist that the distribution will be LSB certified.

They will do that?

Well, now I do know how car I select: Ford or Volvo? ;-)

Obligatory..

[NegativeK]

Ford: We're switching to Linux.
Microsoft: Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.

(Shamelessly stolen from D.N.A.)

I agree, biggest win yet

[Ridgelift]

"That makes Ford's defection to Linux the biggest potential threat to Microsoft in the software developer's 28-year history"

Yeah, I agree. Microsoft has lost all credibility in the public eye for their ability to fix their permanently defective product line (watched the Comedy channels lately? Comedians are getting laughs at Microsoft's expense). Windows is simply getting in the way of people doing their work (updates, upgrades, security patch, REPEAT!).

Ford's a big name brand company, it's American as apple pie, and has nothing to do with technology. That Microsoft couldn't hang on to them speaks to the value proposition of Linux over Windows. To restate the quote above another way, this is the biggest win for Linux to date.

When Does An Avalanche Begin?

[4of12]

When Ballmer lost the Munich deal and went for an extended ski holiday in Switzerland, he already knew what was coming.

With all the licensing pain, arm-twisting upgrades, incompatible Office formats, treadmills from last year and the worms from this year, the momentum will gather and feed itself.

As more companies, governments and educational institutions worldwide adopt Linux, there will be more coders and money to make Linux more usable and an even more favorable migration path for users.

Two years from now everyone will be amazed except for the zealots who will be shaking their heads wondering "What took it so long?".

Re:They'll come crying back

[Zelatrix]

Hehe. I don't think I get 99.999% success rate opening Office documents with the same copy of the application that created it, on the same computer, five minutes after saving. 'Specially if it has a Visio diagram or similar embedded in it - time to dig out Open Office for a bit of MS Office document repair.

Seriously, 99.999% would be more than adequate. Not that Open Office is that good, but around 98% would probably be fine. I'd say that OO was somewhere in the 90% to 95% at the moment.

Recent conversation at M$

[endersdad]

Gates: Someone write a memo, employees are no longer allowed to drive Fords. They must switch to BMW.

Suit: Sir, remember that town in Germany that switched to Linux?

Gates: Volvo's then.

Suit: Sir, Sweeden is a socialist country, no doubt they'll be next.

Gates: Lexus then damnit!

Suit: Sir, those aisian countries are developing their own operating system.

Gates: That's it. Transfer all money budgeted for OS R&D into forming a new car company. Hell, we won't even have to change our slogan.

Re:Recent conversation at M$

[mi]

Gates: Volvo's then.

A minor nit -- Volvo now belongs to Ford. Most probably, Gates knows this -- the "suits" around him certainly do.

Actually a good point

[chia_monkey]

This is actually a good point. It's not just a coup for Linux vs. Microsoft, but a big "F you" to SCO by saying "yeah, we'll do Linux". I hope more companies realize this and stop halting their Linux work or other companies will start their Linux work and stop fearing SCO's threats. This will be interesting to watch...both MS and SCO.

SCO Sends Letter To Ford...

[jbottero]

So, I assume this means SCO will be sending Ford a very big bill soon...

Not all oil leaks are bad.

[tgd]

When my car stops leaking, I start worrying that my oil tank might be empty. :)

Why choose, man?

[dasmegabyte]

the biggest battle was over which Linux vendor to use - RedHat or SuSE.

I guarantee you that the Ford motor company's IT department is bigger than either RedHat or SuSE. Why choose a distro when you can make your own system so easily? I mean, which is better: paying high priced consultants and smooth talking project managers to solve your emergency problems on their terms, or pressuring your own guys to do the same?

Plus, who wouldn't want to see Ford Linux? I may not like Ford cars, or Ford as a car company, but Ford as an engineering paradigm is something that I have respected for a LONG time. I even used to have a big Ford emblem on my first webserver...because it was as reliable as my old Ranger, which wasn't very reliable at all. It wouldn't have to be an official distribution, but wouldn't it be great if it was? Ford Linux, emphasis on secure embedded transaction systems. Direct competition with Microsoft in the market...and Linux on the dashboard of Fords, Cougars, Volvos, Jaguars...

And why is it so strange that Ford should make software? GM owns an insurance company and a bank. GE owns a damn TV network. Hell, this company we just partnered with is somehow owned by Niagra Mohawk, the power company responsible for the northeastern blackout last month. Their "core competency" may be automotive design, but if you've got a massive team of hackers tapping away at infrastructure code already, you might as well sell it. Use your name to take it to Joe Nascar's Dell...

Re:Why choose, man?

[Admiral Burrito]

I guarantee you that the Ford motor company's IT department is bigger than either RedHat or SuSE. Why choose a distro when you can make your own system so easily?

I guarantee you that the combination of Ford's IT department and either RedHat or SuSE is bigger than Ford's IT department alone. Why re-invent the wheel?

Re:Why choose, man?

[slam smith]

I guarantee you that the Ford motor company's IT department is bigger than either RedHat or SuSE. Why choose a distro when you can make your own system so easily? I mean, which is better: paying high priced consultants and smooth talking project managers to solve your emergency problems on their terms, or pressuring your own guys to do the same?

If its not in your core business you are just distracting yourself from the part of your business that pays the bills. I've seen companies who allow themselves to be distracted, and it usually hurts them. GM did something like this when they owned EDS, but it distracted them. So they divested.

It really will be enormously more cost effective for Ford to buy thier linux from someone else.

Re:Not calvin

[LMCBoy]

Those stickers you see all over...are not Calvin and should not be thought of that way.

Well, Bill Watterson certainly thought of them that way; he stopped writing C&H because of the massive infringement of Calvin's likeness. Not because of any lost profits to him (he refused to license their likeness to *any* product), but because his beloved characters were being so crudely misrepresented.

Every time I see Calvin on the back of some moron's pickup truck, I can't help but think that that guy helped kill C&H. WTG, buddy. :(

Not suprised

[jafac]

From my dealings with Ford IT in the past, I'd characterize them as more "forward looking" than a lot of other large companies I've dealt with, when it comes to IT. Back when I was helping with their initial deployment of NetWare 4.0, (4.00), they were then evaluating Linux, this was back when we used to download floppy images to create an install-set. (1994, 95-ish?) I'm glad something came of it.

Re:Not calvin

[senahj]

> Those stickers you see all over are not Calvin of Calvin and hobbes fames.
> They are similear, but different enough to not infringe.

They infringe.

People who buy and display them are beneath contempt -- they pollute the memory of The Greatest Comic Strip Evar Bar None.

OTOH, it's sort of a benefit that barbarians who either unaware of such considerations or who don't care publicly identify themselves in this way -- a little like the busty chrome silhouette commonly seen on the backs of trucks, which concisely convey the message "Driver Is Neanderthal".

"There's treasure everywhere." Calvin

Ford move to Linux untrue!

[bigbadwlf]

According to this article at NewsForge, the Ford move to Linux is untrue.

-- snip --
Joan Witte, Communications Manager for Ford Motor Information Technology, had this statement to make late this afternoon when I called her at her Detroit office about a story being reported that Ford was moving to Linux.

Witte said "Like any other company, Ford Motor is looking at Linux, primarily in the application space. We presently have an enterprise-wide agreement with Microsoft to handle our collaborative solutions. We aren't contemplating using Linux in this area, and don't contemplate doing that in the foreseeable future."
-- snip --

STORY IS UNTRUE - LINK

[FreeLinux]

Newsforge reports is reporting that this story is untrue. Sad but, as I suspected.

Re:STORY IS UNTRUE - LINK

[ksheff]

The Newsforge people called someone in Detroit. The Register article is referencing an article in a Scottish newspaper. It's quite possible that Ford's UK divisions or all of Ford's European divisions are switching to Linux and the people in Detroit know nothing about it.

Partly Wrong

[yanestra]

From Newsforge:

Joan Witte, Communications Manager for Ford Motor Information Technology, had this statement to make late this afternoon when I called her at her Detroit office about a story being reported that Ford was moving to Linux.

Witte said "Like any other company, Ford Motor is looking at Linux, primarily in the application space. We presently have an enterprise-wide agreement with Microsoft to handle our collaborative solutions. We aren't contemplating using Linux in this area, and don't contemplate doing that in the foreseeable future."

Regarding the source of the rumor, Witte said "I'm not sure where they got the info from, but I'd like to know."

RedHat

[http101]

Some alternate slogans for Ford:
I listed the original slogan, then the alternate for you all to enjoy...

Built Ford Tough - "Built Linux Tough"

Quality is Job 1 - "Clustering is Job 1"

Have you driven a Ford lately? - "Have you driven a Penguin lately?"

If you haven't looked at Ford lately, look again. - "If you haven't looked at RedHat lately, look again."

Everything we do is driven by you. - "Everything We Do is Backed By Linux."

Ford has a better idea. - "Linus has a better idea."

There's a Ford in your Future. - "There's a Penguin in your Ford."