Slashdot Mirror
Stealth Computers: NY Times on Mini ITX Modding
securitas writes "What's smaller than a breadbox? Or a toaster? Or a teddy bear? The New York Times has just discovered mini-ITX based computers (Google /CNET mirror, minus the pictures). It's a nice overview of the mini-ITX scene and suggests that small form computers are a hot growth area while the traditional PC business languishes."
Nah, I'm waiting for Nano ITX for to be available in about half a year from now.
...traditional PC languishes
What the heck? Pc business is growing, not too fast, but there are more and more PCs sold each year. Whatever product you come up with for post-PC era, PC kills it from the price standpoint. Network computer, dedicated e-mail devices, Internet-enabled frames, image viewers you hook up to a PC - all crushed by the PC.
Nader-2004
Apple has been making computers smaller than the normal ATX standards forever. We have a set of ATX compatible but extremley small IBM computers at my school. Why is it news that you can make them smaller?
When life gives you crap, Make Crapade.
Sluggy Freelance.
Here is another article on the same subject.
Geminatron
What are you trying to tell us? That CmdrTaco and Batman are lovers?
on slashdot? ...seemed the obvious thing to do.
there, said it
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein
Should've posted with his username, not as AC, so that /. knows its heroes.
Nader-2004
Things I would like to see.
A new Linux distrubution, one aimed at including the most efficient
programs currently being developed: Blackbox, Thunderbird, Firebird, Dillo,
etc. Debian C3?
A 2.6 kernel running on these things so they're more desktop resonsive, work on swsup to be stable enough that the computer will always be instant-on available, thus
never needing a reboot.
Start a project that aims to develop extremely efficient programs designed
to run very well with slow procs like these. Hell if you can web browse
on a C64, this can be done.
If word of this can get out, then more people will question the Intel and
Microsoft monopoly.
Any other suggestions?
--
For normal people who want a normal PC, yes. For hobbyists who want to turn ye old derelict piece 'o junk into a nice PC, no. Think outside the box.
Hate me!
Worse is that he's a friend of a friend for me, so he shows up first on almost all stories.
I really hate Dan Patrick.
For my first all-new PC in about a decade I wanted something that had good performance, all the various external ports (usb, 1394, audio, svideo) that I might ever want, and that was also semi-portable. A Shuttle sn41g2 fills the role nicely, with Nvidia video built in, a 2.5 Ghz Athlon, and a DVD writer. There's also an AGP slot if I ever want to get better video, and a PCI slot that I'll probably use for a TV-tuner card. It was a breeze to put together, actually easier than the larger cases I've dealt with in the past. And Linux (Gentoo) runs fine on it.
Just before buying, I had second thoughts, and checked out the price of a Dell system. They start at around $400, around $230 less than I spent. But... that's with only 256Mb memory, no floppy, and the CD wasn't even a writer (which I didn't think you could buy anymore). "Upgrading" all those thing brought the price considerably higher than what I paid, and then I'd end up with a system with unknown pieces that might not play well with my choice of OS.
It's good for some things. I know people who have made their own DVRs out of them, and they don't look horribly out of place sitting next to their DVD player and game consoles. Kind of looks like a platinum gamecube sitting there. Sometimes looks matter.
-- Dr. Eldarion --
Excuse me, but EPIAs have been available for a couple years. This is just the first acknoledgment by a major mainstream (as in non-computer related) publication of the Mini-ITX platform.
The first time I saw one I thought I was looking at a desktop stereo -- you know, the boxy plastic-and-chrome kind you'd put in an office. I didn't believe it was a computer until I got a look at the connector array in the back.
And that was without putting it in an ET doll or a fishtank.
I want to get my hands on one of these. With a wireless ethernet card and a set of speakers hooked to a built-in sound card you could make a very nifty wireless MP3/streaming audio player -- one that the wife wouldn't object to having in the living room.
Someone you trust is one of us.
...you thought "New York Times, Registration Required" was the name of the newspaper. New York Times [snip] [link to Google copy of article]
And in other news, NYT(reg required) reports that Satan is wondering who turned off the heat. Also, NYT(reg required) reports that pigs were spotted on apporach for Laguardia, but nobody noticed because of the Concorde. Meanwhile, WMDs were actually found in Iraq, except only aljazira(sp?) reported it, so nobody actually believed it.
I mean seriously- you first-time-readers might not realize what a big deal this is! This has got to be a milestone on slashdot- "first story ever which contained a NY times article with a no-registration-required link provided in the actual story".
Now, for the obligatory conspiracy angle- was it editors only approving articles w/reg-required links, or were they editing the stories? Or are the slashdot 'editors'(term used loosely) little green men from another world?
Please help metamoderate.
I applaud any company that is reducing the size of the components that we need in computers. While I'm not one to try and hide my computer in weird objects, the smaller the computer the more likely it will move into the living room as suggested.
My only reservation is the fact that this technology may lack the ability to upgrade, quite similiar to what we find with laptops.
That aside the PC industry has been pushing on with faster and bigger components (CPU, RAM) every few months, in an effort to stay afloat. The thing is that I still have a dual 166 which works quite nicely ( if a little noisily), under my desk. My point is that we have not needed to upgrade our computer half as much as we have.
Yeah sure those of us that want to do funky stuff like hardcore gaming, or video editing might be an exception, but for my dad who's sole computing experience is checking his hotmail account and typing up documents, this is far from necessary.
For normal people who want a normal PC, yes. For hobbyists who want to turn ye old derelict piece 'o junk into a nice PC, no. Think outside the box.
;)
Mini-ITX boards have the CPU soldered on, you can't turn your old piece of junk into a nice PC... you can buy a replacement... and at that point, unless you really like the small form factor, you're really pissing away money (and yes, I am one of those people who does piss away money, so I can see a relatively large market here)... but my point is, if you want a PC replacement, than sure this is an option (pricey and non-expandable, but an option)... on the other hand, I've dealt with companies that used these boards to control motors on industrial machines, etc... there are much better solutions out there, but people keep using PC's... I think I am thinking outside the box... it's the people who think a PC is *THE* solution to every problem that need to think outside the box... or case..
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
You're neglecting the Wow Factor. Wow Factor is street cred among most geeks. As an avid case modder (I re-use old parts though, I usually don't buy new), half the fun is having someone say "that's a computer?". (Please be gentle to my very low bandwidth - personal DSL - server) You can see two basic examples of my own work making odd firewalls here. They're nothing special, but I get the "that's a computer" stuff all the time about these two and they aren't even the good ones, they just happen to be the two I made for my own use.
US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
These form factors are even cooler. The smallest one, Femto XTX, is a mere 49 cm^2 (thats 7x7 or around 2.5"x2.5", smaller than a floppy disk!). These motherboards will be coming out commerically in early 2004, and still has a PS/2, USB, Serial, Sound, Ethernet and VGA. The 1.5 Ghz C4 coming out soon will scream on that machine. Put linux on it and the possiblites are endless!
I have three of the mini-ITX's in a rack that I made for $6 worth of home depot parts. I use them as diskless nodes. Total cost each is around $180, this includes board, power supply, ram, and network cable. The entire rack fits on top of one of my towers.
They take load off my desktop box by doing things like DNS, httpd, dhcpd, fetchmail, procmail, qmail, postgres, etc...
However I would like to see them move to gigabit ethernet.
For the robot geeks these boards offer a lot
PCs are ugly and useful. Say you want watch some divx or xvid flics that accidently got on your harddrive. Instead of dragging your beloved gaming rig up to the TV, you have a small, quiet, dedicated unit that can do the job well without the PC eyesore. Also modding is popular. The small footprint of these boards allow modders more freedom of expression. These PCs are not going to run Doom3 or Half-life 2 but sometimes are better not seen or not heard. HTPC (Home Theater Personal Computer) you are going to hear this buzzword often in years to come!
Does anyone know if there are any 64 bit motherboards in ITX form factor? I'm planning to upgrade to x86_64 in a few yearss and I would like a small powerful box ;).
There is no reason why a Mini-ITX machine would cost twice as much as a PC. The motherboard/cpu will be the same price, if not cheaper, as a normal computer, you will just get less raw performance. All the other components can be the same. So the premium you pay for Mini-ITX isn't cost but speed.
$2000 versus $1000 is FUD.
I find it funny you slam Mini-ITX for 'logistical problems with cooling' when it dissipates much less heat than any standard PC. The new AMD/Intel chips are approaching 100 Watts; that is a much more logistical problem for cooling.
-Eyston
After reading a lot of info about the various mini-ITX boards, cases, and so on, I settled on this configuration:
The total was less than $500, and I could have reduced it some more if I'd been willing to place orders with 3 suppliers, rather than getting everything from one place (logicsupply.com).
While this machine is underpowered for a lot of computing tasks, and is a joke for playing games on, it should do just fabulously as a SMB/NFS file server, web server for pictures of the new baby, and so on. I'm downloading the Fedora beta (Severn) as we speak.
The total power draw for this machine ought to be about 30W. Even at inflated California prices, that's less than $5/month to run. Plus, since the motherboard and case are both fanless, it should run very very quietly, and should be small enough to just tuck away on a shelf somewhere.
Now I get to wait anxiously and see if my expectations match reality.
You hear that? We're influential!
Stupid like a fox!
Ha-ha, got ya!
Well, to be fair, my agency is not that top and I am not really a top analyst in it.
Nader-2004
http://www.openbrick.org/
I just built my first Mini-ITX based system this past weekend. I didn't go for a custom case-mod, though. Got a nice 1U Mini-ITX rackmount case that fits a laptop CDROM and a 120GB WD Caviar Special Edition hard disk just perfectly. Since this one will probably be co-located (once I get FreeBSD running properly on it) it will make a great fileserver. You don't need good onboard sound or video if you're running headless, and mine is an EPIA V8000 with an 800mhz processor and it handles FTP and Samba with ease. Nice and inexpensive to build the whole thing, too, the case was a bit pricey (overseas shipping, ouch!) and I had the hard disk and memory already. It's not a custom case-mod, so it's not much to brag about, but the Mini-ITX serves its purpose well.
The only way to spend $2000 on a mini-itx box is to shove 16 $100 bills into the box.
Oh yeah, I forgot to add "You fucking moron".
You're way off on both pricing and cooling for Mini-ITX. RTFA.
FYI the M10000 is going for $130 - $150 US, thats the 1gig cpu version. I just bought 2 on ebay, brand new.
A few hours grace before the madness begins again.
It's funny, though, since google links are IN THE ARTICLE.
find / -name "*.sig" | xargs rm
Only influential to server bandwidth.
you can't turn your old piece of junk into a nice PC
//c case (DEAD //c's ONLY!).
He wasn't referring to upgradability of Mini-ITX boards. He was referring to the fact that you can gut (insert old computer equipment here) and throw a MITX board in it, and get a semi-modern PC in an old C64 or Apple
No, they need to wait two years til the NYT discovers it, and THEN report it.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
I have three Mini ITX-based systems in my house. One of them being a file/print server. The server because the motherboard has no fans and a 500Mhz C3 is more than enough to dio what that system does. One is a tiny system hiding in the entertainment center in my living room. It does its job: playing old Win9x/DOS games and MP3s just fine. The third is in my wife's computer.
In each of these situations the system does what is needed. The server doesn't need any more speed, only more drives, which I took care of with an old Promis IDE card I had in a pile of unused stuff, and my wife's idea of a rip-snorting good time is playing Freecell. Upgradability isn't a consideration in the design of those systems.
The only part of the equation that raises the price above "traditional" PCs is if you decide to go to using the ultra-small cases and the laptop drives they require. But even then the increase is not on the order of $1,000.00.
Cooling isn't an issue, either. Most mini ITX systems run very cool and use so little power it's insane (I had to sell a 450 watt PSU to a friend because the mini ITX board in that system didn't draw enough power to keep it alive).
Foy YOU mini ITX systems don't make sense. But don't think that what's important to YOU is important to everyone else. For many people computers are not the nerd equivelant of hot rods, but are simply tools to be used for a specific set of jobs and they'd really like to get that tombstone-sized block of steel out of the house.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
"Mini-ITX boards have the CPU soldered on, you can't turn your old piece of junk into a nice PC.."
Old piece of junk, as in, say an old toaster that doesn't work anymore, clean it up and turn it into a computer. Mini-ITX is more about art and fashion... i.e. hiding the uglyness and size of computers as they are now.
As for companies using these boards to control motors on industrial machines... it comes down to what is cheaper to implement and maintain... software on Mini-ITX vs. custom hardware.
This whole post is FUD or a troll... point by point:
Mini ITX is great... really... I mean, for $2000 I can build myself a Mini-PC that is kick ass (well, shitty video card, ac97 audio, integrated LAN)
I built my Mini-ITX for $480 with an ATI TV Wonder. Had I wanted to shell out another $100 I could've had it with an ATI Radeon 8500 AIW, which I would certainly not call shitty. And this box has remote keyboard, mouse, remote control, and DVD player included.
but if I spend $1000, I can have a kick ass PC, with the ability to expand it in the future!!!
In the theoretical world where I bought an ATI Radeon instead of a TV Wonder, I spent $400 less than you for the same thing. Of course a mini-ITX is expandable. It has PCI and USB 2.0. Sure it doesn't support AGP... but if you don't NEED AGP, that's not really a problem is it? It doesn't ALWAYS have to be JUST about framerates, people.
what is it with constantly trying to adapt an x86 architecture to solve all the real world problems out there? Whether you agree or not, the x86 is a PC solution, stop putting them in pagers, phones, cars, and whatever else...
x86 has a choice of robust and powerful operating systems that many people have lots of good experience on, as well as lots of cheap (in many cases free) easy to understand and powerful development choices.
Embedded architectures are limited to one or two scaled down flaky operating systems that most programmers have little to no experience with, and the development platforms are almost universally a barrier to entry in terms of cost, support, and functionality.
You tell me which one you'd rather work on?
Mini ITX is crazy, it prevents you from customizing the PC the way most PCs can be.
How so? Oh I see you list some points... let's look at them shall we?
You have limited space for expansion slots
2 PCI plus USB. With the number of integrated devices, you don't need more... especially if you opt for USB audio and bulk devices.
logistical problems with cooling
How can one possibly call a processor putting off 13W of heat a logistical problem with cooling? When I built my Mini-ITX I literally slapped the thing together. I didn't put a single extra fan in it. And it runs not only cool but quiet as well. The warmest part is the power brick which is OUTSIDE THE CASE... not really a problem in my book...
and adding storage/optical drives
I have one hard drive and one DVD drive in my Mini-ITX. Yes, I am out of room in my case. But I could've opted for the two-3.5" bay case for just a few extra dollars. But you don't need it. The Mini-ITX is supposed to be a second computer, not a first computer. Or its for the non-computer enthusiast who just wants a computer thats non-obtrusive and maybe a little stylish. In the first case, if you need extra storage, set up some server shares. In the second case I doubt the user is really thinking about one day adding a 500G drive...
and in the end the damn thing runs the same OS as your desktop, and is used the same way... WHY???
I beg to differ that it is used the same way. I use mine as a DVR. Others use them for jukeboxes, mixing computers, and even office tasks. While my main computer has to be mediocre at everything, my mini computer can afford to specialize and be very good at one or two tasks at the expense of others, because I have my main computer if there's something I need to do that it can't really handle.
There is a reason for the need of a small computer, and damnit, there is always a better more economical and practical solution than stripping an x86 to fit the criteria.
I would hardly call a mini-ITX a stripped x86. With onboard EVERYTHING, decent processor speeds (their design criteria was "good enough in a low-heat low-cost package", not "as fast as possible at whatever cost". I believe they succeeded), and industry-standard connectors it can do everything that any x86 can do. And do it cheaper and quieter.
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
Actually, it IS possible to spend $2000 on a Mini-ITX box without cramming cash in it (which wouldn't affect the cooling that much - it's a friggin C3, after all!). Get ripped off on the M10000, use 2GB sticks of Crucial (can it even take 2GB sticks?), use a fscking 600W ATX PSU, use a slimline DVD burner, use a 300GB HDD, use a floppy, custom build the case out of stained glass, and include the NEW Endura Pro 104 and 20" LCD flat panel.
However, no one would be STUPID enough to do that - after all, it's a 1GHz CPU!
A true geek would never sexually reproduce, let alone have a girlfriend - everyone knows geeks just clone themselves using a RAID 1 DNA sequencer 3000 from thinkgeek.
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
try http://forums.viaarena.com/categories.cfm?catid=32 and http://linitx.org/forum/ to see the good and bad points.
A key problem is that VIA is almost totally unresponsive to complaints - the details of the chips are impossible to come by without ordering 1000's and signing NDA's hence the hardware Mpeg decoding is not fully functional under linux
I've got a big old steel desk (WW 2 Government Surplus - 400 lbs. - built like a studebaker) supporting my desktop Tower PC, a couple of 20" monitors, and lots of peripherals. I think my next project will be fitting a couple of these puppies and some lightweight storage and networking gear into the space between the backs of the drawers and the desk's back. Replacing half this stuff might lighten the whole array enough that the floor lasts a few more years. It's creaking I tell you. Creaking.
Who is John Cabal?
However, no one would be STUPID enough to do that - after all, it's a 1GHz CPU!
:)
:(
And here I was envying the setup you describe.
Except knock off the 600W power supply and floppy. Neither are required in this case. And I'd rather a matrox and 3 LCD panels. With that setup you could literally hide the computer in the back of the middle panel, and attatch all three with a hinge...
semi-portable three-head gaming. Nice. Only problem is that setup gets rid of the stained glass
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
Start a project that aims to develop extremely efficient programs designed
to run very well with slow procs like these. Hell if you can web browse on a C64, this can be done.
Yes, it's called RedHat 3.0.
Seriously, even a 700MHz C3 is a pretty fast machine. And it will actually run today's software quite well.
There also is a full complement of small, efficient programs as part of the Linux handheld projects.
In other news, motherboards "often" include CPUs. Meaning sometimes they don't. GHOST CPU! OooOOOOooOOO!!
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
The article missed some great mini-itx uses, projects that really need to be small. The automobile computer projects are great. The time for computers to coordinate sound systems and navigation has come.
How far away are the nano-itx boards? The footprint of a CD is amazing.
Will there be tiny boards with DVI connectors? Many applications in small spaces also benefit from small displays, not CRTs. LCDs and DVI go together particularly well.
I just bought an older Mini-ITX barebones system at the end of the summer for US$240, it's the Shuttle SK41G. It fits conveniently underneath the desk drawers in my small dorm room.
/
I've added an NVidia GeForce4 Ti4200, an AMD Athlon XP 2000+, a TV-input card and it uses a VIA KM266 chipset with integrated everything else. Most of the newer mini-ITX systems use NVidia chipsets but I was too cheap. :
Anyways, the article says that Mini-ITX are less powerful and that VIA chipsets (some of the fastest for Athlons) don't support anything but the Cyrix stuff. These are lies. They're less expandable maybe, but more than adequate in terms of power.
now that they make a mini-itx with dual nics, you can build a pretty nice homemade firewall appliance out of one of these. pc-power out of something a little bigger than a linksys router. sounds good to me!
Gyrate Dot Org - "Where high-tech meets low-life"
I am considering a desk mod. The idea is to cable and setup my computer desk as a computer itself. Kind of like Crammers Coffee Table Book Coffee Table. Make the MB easy to clean and integrate the electrics. I think I won't monkey with the chair though. Make upgrades practical and I might have something. Multiboot optimised and an Apple board to boot.
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
Hell, who has mini-ITX hands? Not me. In fact, I want a case the size of a walk-in closet. I want to see everything at eye-level on the wall. I don't want to worry about bumping a ribbon cable and taking the CD-ROM drive offline. I want to be able to have lunch inside the case while I'm working on an upgrade. Yes, with a table and chair so I can put my stuff down. And I want a monitor inside the case so if I need to look up some jumper assignment or order parts I don't have to leave the case.
It's like cars. I like old cars, where you can practically sit in the engine bay while you work. Now to change the plugs in my car I have to remove the intake manifold and half the fuel injection harness. And damn if there isn't a computer under the hood too, so now I have to worry about bumping a ribbon cable lest I take the airbags or brakes offline.
I've been looking at some these really small cases, but one thing a lot of them require are half-height expansion cards. Where does one get these. I've looked all over and I've only seen one.
The mini-ITX boards have some really funky hardware, so the ability to put in your own audio, video or NIC, seems like a requirement if one's not using WIndows.
Shuttles are different. I'm talking about cases like the Antec Minuet.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Sounds like Old Ike has got nads on his chin again.
"Gain three inches in 30 days or your money back !!!" (Rolls eyes)
Seriously though, I can see a use for these at work, where the main office is 4 people, 3 computers, and some visitors crammed into an 10x12 foot area... and those blueprints take up a *lot* of table space.
C|N>K
You can still get CD only readers. If you use a lot of CDs, it might be worth it, the ability to write CDs comes at the cost of a more complex mechinism (heavier laser last I checked a few years ago), which tends to break sooner.
For most people, it isn't worth the bother of having several drives.
Jesus man, use the preview button. I can tolerate spalling errors from a geek, but not malformed html.
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
Hmm... My fastest computer is now horridly obsolete. A old dual ppro-200 with 128 meg of RAM. I see no reason to upgrade it despite having a nice P4 in the office (about 2.4ghz), which isn't even fast enough to get me to switch from the other machine in my office (1.6ghz). Simpley put: comptuers are faster than I need them to be. There are a few scientists and the like that need faster computers, but for most people computers are plenty fast.
Lets assume I want to upgrade my comptuer. Guess what, no current CPU fits in the sockets I have. My RAM isn't up to the modern standards. My video card was the best of its time, and while still good, it isn't anything to talk about now. (Matrox milliam II) My harddrives are tiny by todays standard, and getting old, so I'd replace them anyway. So my upgrade ends up saving me the cost of a case, power supply, and CD-ROM. What was your point again?
for quite a while:
... all the management critters with laptops always use the "docking stations" with them anyway, so why bother with the built in screen and keyboard, unless you really do type on the plane, train or bus?)
Most of a *cheap* laptop I can carry around, even if there's no battery.
It sounds like you can set up a nice one for about half of what a low end laptop costs. This looks like the thing. (But, but, but!
Seriously, get a dinky beige box, sign on the LAN at work and just use the thing (its disk) as a "briefcase" to use for transporting projects when I work at home. I guess that's kinda boring compared to the ulitimate game serving toaster and all, but it would be practical.
Yow! I'm supposed to have a plan?
AFAIK nobody has ever produced an ITX motherboard. mini-ITX is a different story of course, and I wouldn't be surprized to see 64 bit in the mini-ITX or nano-ITX form factors. (Yes, ITX motherboards were defiend, and one or two were likely made, but they never caught on)
I've had that idea in the back of my head now for a couple of years. Inset the computer into the desk top with a nice plexiglass cover on it. Pop up CD/DVD drives. Figure I can get twice the computers in the same area as one takes up - in my future dream home the rec room will have a set up like this for gaming - with maybe 8-10 setups along the walls.
Of course, all this starts with being able to afford replacement boxen with Mini-ITX (or the like) and the time to do it all, looks like it's time to buy a lotto ticket. If you get you're done before I win the lotto, send photos!
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
I have several ideas for custom cases, but I'm not giving them away.
I'll bet most /. readers have their own ideas (which are to them unique, but likely duplicated by others). Lets start building.
Basically, until something tiny with more than 2 card slots and room for upgrades is released, why not just go for a notebook computer? I just don't see these things becoming more than another blip in the relatively short history of computers.
"Is not a sentence" is not a sentence. Well damn.
The guy is a fucking moron, don't waste your time responding..
For some reason there's a bunch of morons on this thread. Hmmmm, home on a Friday night? The nerds will play.
Just goes to show that the dorks, nerds, and other self described "smart" people are just the stupid dumb sheep as the rest of society.
Anyone who's truly a geek or just a regular slashdot reader already knows about case modding and the whole mini LAN brick size cases. HA, I have my copy of Maximum PC right next to me and every issue is about case modding, not to mention all the other case mod web sites.
I think the NY Times needs to do an article on phase cooling or water cooling.
Everytime I tell someone I have a watercooled case with water pumping through my system I get to see the largest eyes this side of the Mississippi.
Maybe it's because when you tell them you're going to show them your "badmonkey" and "spankmonkey" they're expecting something quite different...
Ended up using a Nova 8890, which fits in a 5.25" drive bay footprint. There's a nice industrial brick type case for this. No removable storage, though; this is industrial, not entertainment. Industrial temp range, watchdog timer, etc.
:) Spankmonkey is the firewall for my network. It gets spanked all the time.
US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
For $2000 I can build a beowulf cluster of 5 mini ITX systems...
Oh well, what the hell...
120GB disk
Just any 120GB disk can be quite noisy.. here's a couple alternatives from storagereview.com's database:
Seagate Barracuda ATA V (120 GB ATA-100) - 37.8 Db
IBM Deskstar 120GXP (120 GB ATA-100) - 45.8 Db
Western Digital Caviar WD1200JB (120 GB ATA-100) - 47.3 Db
Decibel is a logarithmic scale unless you know, so this is a *lot*. Since the disk will be the noisyest part of the system, I'd definately go for a Seagate
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Why? Because they have "enough" space. I was planning to get one when I got my current PC, but it stopped on one thing only - the (then expensive) DVD writer. I knew I was getting one "soon" (I have one now), and there wasn't room for both my old CD-RW and my DVD reader.
Now, I would have. Two HDDs (no floppy as I never use it anyway), the 2x160gb Seagates I have now, would be plenty. Anything more could go in the hard disk rack in the server & mount them from there. You have your AGP slot for graphics, one expansion card (but pretty much all you can ask for on the mobo), fast processor and all that.
That, and an LCD to replace this 19" CRT. Why? Because neither got any style, and I don't mean to go down the case modding route. I've got the performance I want now, what I miss is style. Something that looks small & unintrusive, not something that looks like it's about to make the desk it's sitting on cave in.
That is, as soon as I get a job, sigh...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I've owned about 7 mini-ITX boxes, and 3 of them have had motherboard flaws when I unpacked them (2 had bad network ports, and one had no USB). Another one worked for a month or so before the network port went bad. Still another only boots about 2 out of every three times I push the power button on. I end up having to use the one PCI slot for an extra network card just to get the network to work. Has anyone else experienced issues like this?
I am not one to give up easily on something like this. The form factor and lower power consumption of these boards is very cool. But I've given up on Via's EPIA and EPIA-M.
Instead of the EPIA platform, I'm now deploying servers based on the Total Impact BriQ. And I'm much happier. I didn't need Firewire, USB (except for keyboard, and the BriQ has a serial port instead), or fancy graphics (BriQ has none, unless you count the VFD, heh). But they make slick servers.
And they run Debian/PPC nicely, but you have to use a network install to get it software on there.
The toaster in that article is my bedroom pc. I use it for surfing, mp3s, and watching dvds. It is super quiet and only has a 55 watt powersupply. I also use its LCD monitor for watching TV. It does exactly what I designed it for. I think it is great that a mainstream publication is taking notice of mini-itx! The purpose of one of these systems is not to be a performance machine. I can build normal towers for serious gaming. Everything else does not require a powerful pc. Why would I need a powerful pc to check my email or play music?
I think tiny PCs are a great idea, but why aren't they more popular? I don't think motherboard makers from this side of the Atlantic (or Pacific?) didn't know about it before. Maybe there's a catch, besides the upgrade issues, like shorter lives, or something?
Or is it that they are recent stuff? (I learned about their existence earlier this year).
Cheers!
This guy is most probably a troll. Even the Nano-ITX doesn't have PS/2 nor serial ports anymore.
Sure, if you use a $1000 car as the case
And for under 600$ I can build a beowulf cluster of three Nano-ITX inside a standard keyboard. ;-)
Expandability is obsolete.
Computers these days (and I made this realisation with my most recent purchase) are cheap enough that you just buy a new one, and make a headless closet server out of the old one.
I'm making my recent cast off -- an old P200 -- an MP3 player for the GF. Interesting project because it has to be enginerred to recover gracefully from any number of things and also combine ease of use and power.
On that note (OT):
can anyone recommend a good mp3 server with the following characteristics?
1) play mp3s on server, with pretty web front end (a bit of flash for the animation would be great)
2) stream mp3s to shoutcast server
3) play mp3s on client (several simultaneous)
4) rip and catalog cds inserted into drive automatically
5) allow playlists to be burned to server cdr
A bit of research has given me mserv for 1 (+2 in devel), edna for 3, no solution yet for 4 or 5.
6) do it all in uniform interface. So preferably one interface for all of it.
It's like Blackbox (even theme-compatible), with a few improvements such as tabbed windows and a redesigned iconbar. Should be just as light, though.
Well the .NET framework is an exciting set of controls that will change the way we do everything. For example, no longer will I type a document in word. In the future with .NET, the document will type itself and will colaborate with every other windows computer on my network. I will finally be able to just sit at my desk with my thumb up my ass and have the computer do all the work. It won't be the best work, but it's better than doing it myself.