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MIT's New Music Sharing Network

tessaiga writes "The New York Times has an article about a new project at MIT to replace music file sharing over P2P with sharing over cable TV (reg free link). The Library Access To Music Project relies on the more relaxed copyright restrictions on analog transmission formats like cable. From the article: "M.I.T. students, faculty and staff can choose from 16 channels of music and can schedule 80-minute blocks of time to control a channel. The high-tech D.J. can select, rewind or fast-forward the songs via an Internet-based control panel. Mr. Winstein and Mr. Mandel created the collection of CD's after polling students." The article goes on to point out that this is (hopefully) legal under current laws because MIT already has a blanket license to broadcast music over analog media, and recording songs played over this system "would be no different from recording songs from conventional FM broadcasts"."

214 comments

  1. God help them! by jkrise · · Score: 5, Funny

    If MIT students can't find methods to get MP3 off the 'net, nimbly sidestepping the R*AA and other assorted vultures... well; do they really deserve to be at MIT?

    -

    --
    If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
    1. Re:God help them! by Mattcelt · · Score: 1

      Umm... I think you're thinking of Harvard Law School there. This is not a *technical* issue, it's a *legal* one, and AFAIK they don't teach law at MIT...

    2. Re:God help them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, one LAMP's creators is my TA for an MIT course on just this sort of legal topic . We don't have a distinct law department, but various disciplines (Public Policy, Poli Sci, Civil Engineering etc.) do teach law classes.

    3. Re:God help them! by glasser · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Of course it's possible to get MP3s for free here at MIT. But so many music-downloaders spend all their time whining about how the RIAA doesn't give any money to artists and if they just did that and didn't keep huge profits themself they'd support them. Well, LAMP actually involves legally paying the artists (especially the songwriters) involved.

      --dave, actual LAMP user

    4. Re:God help them! by patiwat · · Score: 1

      Although MIT doesn't have a law school of its own, there are some excellent courses on law.

      Specially, 15.628: Patents, Copyrights, and the Law of Intellectual Property is a half-semester course that provides a great intro to the spectrum of IP law issues. Gosh, it might even provide some insight to the topic at hand... The instructor, Prof. Meldman is a real treasure to the Institute, and if you've seen him lecture, you'll understand why. At MIT, you'd have to bid for it, but it is also offered on OpenCourseware (OCW):

      http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Sloan-School-of-Manage me nt/15-628Patents--Copyrights--and-the-Law-of-Intel lectual-PropertySpring2003/CourseHome/

      The course packet alone makes excellent reading - the cases used provide pretty much the foundation of US IP law.

  2. That's all nice and well by Sadiq · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's all nice and well till the technology takes off and soon they'll find the nice hole in the licensing that allows them to do it gets shut off.

    Maybe i'm just cynical.

    --
    SysWear - Geek T-shirts (UK/Europe)
    1. Re:That's all nice and well by tanveer1979 · · Score: 1
      Maybe i'm just cynical.

      Yes you are cynical. The **AAs are just against anything which says DIGITAL, however if you talk FM, cable, Airwave where the Blasphemous word does not appear, they seem to be pretty okay with it. What MIT is doing is creating a simple cable radio network, and this should not be a problem with RIAA

      --
      My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
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    2. Re:That's all nice and well by rknop · · Score: 1, Insightful

      however if you talk FM, cable, Airwave where the Blasphemous word does not appear, they seem to be pretty okay with it.

      They are??? Haven't you heard the words "analog hole?"

      Mind you, that's not the kind of "hole" that comes to mind when I think about the **AA....

      -Rob

    3. Re:That's all nice and well by in7ane · · Score: 1, Funny

      If anything it will be good for RIAA - just watch Kazaa fill up with poor quality recordings that people make form this.

      Oh, wait, that's already the case...

    4. Re:That's all nice and well by jandrese · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't radio stations have all sorts of restrictions on how much control the users have over the playlists? IIRC, the restrictions range from: the radio station being strictly prohibited from publishing its playlist, request shows requiring at least an hour between when someone calls in a song to when they actually play it, DJs being required to talk over the beginning and end of the songs, and requring the DJ to not tell you the name of the song until after it has played.

      This MIT system seems to put a lot of power in the hands of the students, which is just the sort of thing the RIAA hates.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    5. Re:That's all nice and well by proj_2501 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think that's more of a restriction made by the station management. I break all of those rules. Of course, I'm on college radio, so I don't have to run my playlists past Clear Channel ahead of time like most commercial stations do.

    6. Re:That's all nice and well by Oscillatory · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Don't radio stations have all sorts of restrictions on how much control the users have over the playlists? IIRC, the restrictions range from: the radio station being strictly prohibited from publishing its playlist, request shows requiring at least an hour between when someone calls in a song to when they actually play it, DJs being required to talk over the beginning and end of the songs, and requring the DJ to not tell you the name of the song until after it has played.

      Some of these are the kinds of restrictions that are being imposed on licensed webcasters, including e.g. webcast from a college radio station .. or at least things like can't publish a song on the playlist before it's been played, can't play an entire album, or more than three songs from the same album within 2 hours (something like that).

      Broadcast radio has no such restrictions except as self-imposed by bad corporate radio .. college radio certainly doesn't require any of the above.
    7. Re:That's all nice and well by op00to · · Score: 1

      I worked at a radio station for a year. There were no FCC restrictions on how we created, played, and published our playlists. They were available in the music journals, online, and we would send them by snail mail if you requested.

    8. Re:That's all nice and well by jandrese · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ah, it appears that I was misinformed. I guess these are merely corporate radio limitations, not anything mandated by the song licensing agencies.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    9. Re:That's all nice and well by cutopenthesky · · Score: 1

      The Northeastern University radio station has absolutely no restrictions. If we want we can play an entire album. We just have to play a certain amount of PSA's every hour and say our call station.

    10. Re:That's all nice and well by tgibbs · · Score: 4, Interesting
      It's all nice and well till the technology takes off and soon they'll find the nice hole in the licensing that allows them to do it gets shut off

      However, this may pose a political problem. RIAA's argument is that they are not trying to retract existing privileges, such as recording music off the radio. Rather, they argue, the ability of digital technology to make "perfect" copies is a unique threat that must be combatted with restrictions specifically directed to the digital format. So to go after MIT, they basically have to admit that this argument is basically a load of crap, and that they are trying to impose new restrictions on what people can do with broadcast music. Of course, the reality is that nobody but a minority of audiophiles cares about "perfect" copies, and they aren't interested in trading compressed formats like mp3, anyway. The MIT initiative offers what the average student really wants--the ability to select the music they want.

    11. Re:That's all nice and well by God!+Awful+2 · · Score: 1

      I thought college radio stations had additional restrictions because they aren't commercial. I.e. they can't compete with regular radio stations by playing the same songs, etc. I knew a guy who had a radio show and I vaguely remember him talking about it. I dunno. Is that only in Canada or something?

      -a

    12. Re:That's all nice and well by proj_2501 · · Score: 1

      That could very well a Canadian restriction but what is the point of college radio if not to play stuff that's NOT played by a commercial station? The only content restrictions I have are:
      -no slander, libel, etc.
      -no radio station politics on the air
      -no naughty words in songs except between 10pm and 6am and no naughty words outside of an artistic context
      -can't advertise
      -can't say another station's call letters
      -gotta say what station it is once an hour
      -gotta play public service announcements every hour, and talk up other people's shows

    13. Re:That's all nice and well by cyril3 · · Score: 1
      Funny? Why is this funny?

      Where is the punch line.

      Is it perhaps the 'all nice and well' rather than the more traditional 'all well and good'.

      I'm sorry. I just don't get it.

    14. Re:That's all nice and well by Reziac · · Score: 1

      I think what you're remembering is the Clear Channel policy, which was posted here in some previous argument.

      When I was DJing at an indie station back around 1980ish, we certainly didn't have any such restrictions. The only real rule was "whatever you want to play, so long as you record it on the playlists that the station is required to keep."

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  3. Scratch ? by mirko · · Score: 5, Funny

    The high-tech D.J. can select, rewind or fast-forward the songs via an Internet-based control panel.

    Can he do it fast enough to reproduce the vinyl scratch effect ?

    --
    Trolling using another account since 2005.
    1. Re:Scratch ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, But, never fear, someone else at MIT built this robotic DJ that can: DJ I Robot

      DJ I ROBOT uses a PC, several micro-controllers, and an advanced "motion control" system to automatically mix, scratch, and search a pair of custom vinyl records on the robotic phonographs.

    2. Re:Scratch ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that is to be done only under hip hop supervision.

    3. Re:Scratch ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interestingly enough, one of the CDs ordered in the LAMP survey was "400 Sound Effects!" (don't ask why someone requested this... they just did), and I'm sure there's a DJ scratch noise on it :-P

    4. Re:Scratch ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes.

  4. the sue cycle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    A good idea in foresigh, but we all know the RIAA will demand some insane fee as they aren't traditional broad-casters or slaves to MTV...and when they don't pay, RIAA will send an army of lawyers after them...

    1. Re:the sue cycle by mrsev · · Score: 1

      Not sure they will. MIT is not some kid swapping songs. They have both political and legal might and Im sure do not like to be pushed around.

      The second point is that if they go after this then they will threaten radio stations who Im sure would love to get a chance to hit back. Remember that MIT does have a license to analog broadcast. This has been very well defended for decades. Providing the transmission is analog then they are untouchable.

      Always nice to stick it to the *IAA.

  5. and you rip off the mask... by the_pooh_experience · · Score: 3, Funny

    of the evil-doer, and it is the RIAA, who shakes his bony fist and exclaims, "darn you meddling computer scientists!"

    1. Re:and you rip off the mask... by LittleGuy · · Score: 1

      of the evil-doer, and it is the RIAA, who shakes his bony fist and exclaims, "darn you meddling computer scientists!"

      I prefer, "CURSE YOU, POWERPUFF GIRLS!!!!!"

      --
      Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
    2. Re:and you rip off the mask... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling geeks!"

  6. Microsoft Funded by Davak · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Quote at the bottom of the page:
    LAMP is funded by the iCampus Alliance (MIT/Microsoft Research)

    http://lamp.mit.edu

    Okay, slashdot... does Microsoft get any props here?

    (oh, sh!t, there goes my Karma.)

    Davak

    1. Re:Microsoft Funded by maan · · Score: 3, Informative

      BUT...they run it on linux! Check out http://lamp.mit.edu/lamp-aup.pdf where they detail the setup and mention that it runs on linux.

      Maan

    2. Re:Microsoft Funded by kaiidth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Microsoft are funding a bunch of campus style software and such. iCampus is one example of this, a large MIT research thingy, which covers funding for all sorts of projects (I seem to recall there being, for example, a student shuttle-bus which reports its location via gps to the web...). It's actually fairly fragmented; like most large lumps of university money it has been taken up by people as and when rather than as part of a Grand Plan.

      Well, no matter how it appears, certainly if you ask MS or MIT they will tell you there is a grand plan - for sure. But relax, Microsoft have been throwing funding at universities for 'wired campus' style projects on a regular basis as far as I know, and as yet it has met with limited success from their perspective. They would love to own the education market, of course. They just haven't got a decent grip on it yet, and not for lack of trying.

      You have to realise that research and industrial funding is an uneasy alliance at best. Good researchers attract funding whilst controlling the conditions under which it is given; bad researchers accept funding that comes with strings. In this case, MIT are, I suspect, in the driver's seat. This makes them relatively unusual; many researchers are rather naive and, on receipt of a few flattering comments and hints of 'long term collaborations', 'special relationships' or similar, will immediately go for it no matter what the conditions. Some even believe that they are the ones doing the 'using'. Having worked for one of these types, I can assure you that these researchers are wrong (do I sound disillusioned? Oh well).

      It's worth keeping your eyes open, anyway; if you see anything using tablet PCs, MS DRM, heavy use of .NET, and 'Learning through [demonstration/play]' with [insert microsoft technologies], then you can more or less assume that the researcher is a Microsoft prostitute of some kind. But this particular project seems too 'free' to be particularly blessed by MS.

      Don't know if that helps.

    3. Re:Microsoft Funded by kaiidth · · Score: 1

      And, er, to annoyingly reply to myself, this is why 'edutainment' is a good sign of active Microsoft involvement. Randy Hinrichs, Microsoft Research's Group Research Manager for Learning Science and Technology, is a major believer in the use of 'learning through play'. The LAMP project, on the other hand, is just a student project, and therefore supported to the tune of $30,000. I suspect Microsoft had veto power on it, though. Um.

      Off now.

    4. Re:Microsoft Funded by inburito · · Score: 1

      Yes, isn't it wonderful that microsoft is supporting easy access to copyrighted works with a linux based server!

      On a separate note, just about all of mit's athena network is based on a customized linux/solaris systems. There are practically no publicly available windows computers on campus. Want to use microsoft office? Great, put it on your own computer because staroffice it is everywhere else. Only microsoft influence I've seen anywhere is a couple of measly tablet pc's sometime last year that I have not seen since(they gave them out for a certain course, i believe, as an experiment).

    5. Re:Microsoft Funded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But this particular project seems too 'free' to be particularly blessed by MS.

      Well, if you think about it, Microsoft is still attached at the hip with NBC (MSNBC), so it would make sense for them to be interested in a cable music distribution system. Especially if it takes the labels out of the loop and allows Microsoft to collect a subscription fee instead.

      Microsoft is always on the lookout for ways to redirect distribution revenue from old targets to their own pocket.

    6. Re:Microsoft Funded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      interesting.

      microsoft is throwing money any place they can, to see what sticks.

      i didn't think M$ did things like that(sarcasm)

  7. they'll use it by Apreche · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm a college student, and I can honestly say that if I had this I would use it.

    I would use it to record all the songs I didn't already have on mp3. And for all the songs I couldn't get through this system, I would still hit the p2p. I don't supposed they have Super Eurobeat or garage bands music do they? No? The store doesn't either? Downloads for me.

    --
    The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
  8. MIT likes Britney by kyoko21 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nice to see that the boys and girls at MIT likes Britney since "Baby One More Time" was number 4 most request song last week. Just can't get enough of Britney on the LAMP!

    1. Re:MIT likes Britney by MattCohn.com · · Score: 1
      16 The Scientist-A Rush Of Blood To The Head-Coldplay
      15 Clocks-A Rush Of Blood To The Head-Coldplay
      11 Ignition (Remix)-Chocolate Factory-R. Kelly
      10 ...Baby One More Time-...Baby One More Time-Britney Spears
      10 #1-Nellyville-Nelly
      9 Still D.R.E.-2001 (Explicit)-Dr. Dre
      9 By The Way-By The Way-Red Hot Chili Peppers
      9 Without Me-The Eminem Show-Eminem
      9 In My Place-A Rush Of Blood To The Head-Coldplay
      9 The Next Episode-2001 (Explicit)-Dr. Dre
      At least they have somewhat good taste what with the coldplay tracks, and that R. Kelly remix. But damn... have you heard the original? It's like a whole diffrent song... the lyrics don't even match up! Crazy it is.
    2. Re:MIT likes Britney by MattCohn.com · · Score: 1
      BTW, it goes
      Spins Title-Album-Artist
      Now I'll sit here and waste my two minutes between posting like a good slashdotter.
  9. boston.com link: no reg req by paiute · · Score: 2, Informative
    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
  10. Next Step, Please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    sox -t ossdsp -w -r44100 -c2 /dev/dsp -t raw -w -r44100 -c2 - | cat | /usr/local/bin/lame --quiet -r -s44.1 -x -m j -V 2 -b 56 -B 128 -h - - > shareme.mp3

  11. we all know how lawmaking in the US works, right? by wouterke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    it's not because this is legal right now, that it will remain legal until the end of times.

    If this becomes popular, my bet is that the RIAA will buy themselves a law which will outlaw this. If it indeed is legal right now, that is...

  12. Way to go. Not. by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Am I the only one who thinks that, at this very moment, a RIAA lawyer will be drafting notes that use your comment as the centrepiece for a legal motion to get this MIT project shut down?

    The way to combat RIAA, etc isn't by shouting from the rooftops that you'll pirate/whatever you want to call it their music from now till doomsday. The way to combat them is by supporting non-RIAA artists, by supporting innovative legitimate music-buying options such as the Apple iTunes store, by buying second-hand CDs, etc.

    Giving someone the very ammunition that they need to shoot you down is suicide. Perhaps when you graduate to the real world you'll learn that lesson.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    1. Re:Way to go. Not. by stubear · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Excuse me "Mr. +4 Interesting" but the Apple iTunes store is populated with thousands of artists and songs whose record labels are part of the RIAA. The iTunes store also works with the RIAA to ensure the music is delivered in a way so as to limit widespread illegal distribution of the songs downloaded from the service. iTunes is as much an experiment for Apple as it is for the RIAA.

    2. Re:Way to go. Not. by ckd · · Score: 3, Informative
      Am I the only one who thinks that, at this very moment, a RIAA lawyer will be drafting notes that use your comment as the centrepiece for a legal motion to get this MIT project shut down?

      This is not some random student project. MIT has intellectual property lawyers.

      innovative legitimate music-buying options

      Music need not be purchased to be heard. MIT has paid ASCAP et al for blanket transmission licenses, like radio stations use. (BTW, the campus radio station, WMBR, used to be called the "Tech Broadcasting System" or WTBS, until some guy in Atlanta bought the call letters from them...now it stands for Walker Memorial Basement Radio, for its location.)

      See their FAQ, particularly the questions "Is this really legal? How?" and "Did you have lawyers look at this?"

    3. Re:Way to go. Not. by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Exactly. But it's a legal alternative to the traditional buy-a-CD-of-twelve-songs-even-though-you-might-onl y-like-two-of-them model. I wasn't suggesting that it was independent of RIAA, only that it was one of the many legal alternatives that challenges RIAA's status quo.

      If in twelve months time, 10, 15 or even 20 percent (to use arbitrary figures off the top of my head) of the music being bought by 10-25 year-olds is through online buy-just-what-you-want stores, then that'll be a very big wake-up call to RIAA and the major labels.

      In that scenario (which most probably happen eventually), the big boys will have to re-evaluate how they package, present and sell music on a wider scale. Right now, they probably look at iTunes as in interesting exercise, just as IBM once looked at PC clones in the same way. But sooner or later, just like IBM and those clones, RIAA et al will have to embrace a future that's not entirely of their making.

      And the less involvement that RIAA has in the music industry of the future, the better for us all, regardless of where we live and/or our musical tastes.

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    4. Re:Way to go. Not. by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 1

      Licenses can be granted and licenses can be taken away. It'll only take a few "hey, now I stick it to RIAA and copy any music I want"-type posts, such as the one that I responded to for RIAA to petition that LAMP and any other similar projects should be shut down.

      MIT may have intellectual property lawyers but don't forget that RIAA and its friends do. And, if it comes down to a major fight, I always put my money on the organisation with the deeper pockets for a legal fight and the stronger resolve. Now, I think we know who has the deeper pockets for a legal fight but who do you think has the greater will for that fight?

      Do you think it's MIT, which is primarily concerned with research and teaching, or RIAA, which is only concerned with protecting the rights of its members and preserving the status quo?

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    5. Re:Way to go. Not. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 0, Troll

      The way to combat RIAA, etc isn't by shouting from the rooftops that you'll pirate/whatever you want to call it their music from now till doomsday.

      You have the right to that opinion, but that doesn't make it a fact.

      What you're saying is akin to saying that the black people in the south of the US shouldn't have had sit-ins and protests. They should have just spent their money at the stores that treated them properly. They should have just ridden in the back of the bus.

      The simple fact is this, music piracy can not be stopped. The RIAA can find a way to make money using new technology, or they can lose millions. People like this guy reminding them that they're using the wrong tactics is just what is needed.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    6. Re:Way to go. Not. by Crossplatform · · Score: 1

      The RIAA is a recording industry group supporting any recording industry plays into the field they are strongest in. I 'steal' recorded music but $pay$ for live shows at least twice a month. (substantial for a pour student) Copy right laws were set in place to produce an inovative and productive industry. These same laws are now being used to gard against a form of inovation. When the system of the verry rich paying for musical production broke down in the late classic period there were technical shifts in bow types for string instruments so that music could be played in concert halls. Now the rich are loosing their abillity to fund music. Time to play some concerts.

      --
      Sex is what happens when people think no one else will ever find out
    7. Re:Way to go. Not. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While your argument is well-aimed, your anecdotes are incorrect. African-americans of the 60's and 70's did exactly what he was suggesting. Instead of violently and inflexibly expressing their position, the made progress through supporting programs and institutions that were sympathetic to their views. Your bus reference supports his point more than yours. Just like MLK, he is suggesting that we boycott the buying of over-priced cd's, and instead spend money at places that cater to our views.

      Next time you rant, listen to yourself.

    8. Re:Way to go. Not. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      African-americans of the 60's and 70's did exactly what he was suggesting. Instead of violently and inflexibly expressing their position, the made progress through supporting programs and institutions that were sympathetic to their views.

      The key point is that you be vocal about your action. Let us not forget that sit-ins were illegal at the time. It was clearly tresspassing. Music piracy, is also clearly illegal. In order for people to know what you're doing you must speak up.

      Just like MLK, he is suggesting that we boycott the buying of over-priced cd's, and instead spend money at places that cater to our views.

      What he is suggesting would be more like the Montgomery bus boycott, without publicly admitting that you are boycotting.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    9. Re:Way to go. Not. by alexpage · · Score: 1

      By buying from iTunes, you support DRM and the erosion of fair-use rights. You're not sending a wake-up call to the RIAA, you're supporting them.

    10. Re:Way to go. Not. by deedee361 · · Score: 1

      Right! and the way to do it is to promote creative commons artists. (http://creativecommons.org). Let's face it, why do we need to listen to RIAA artists anyway, when there are hundreds of thousands of other artists just as good (if not better) that would jump at the chance to promote their music through sharing, so that you might go listen to them live in concert. Artists should get paid for the work they do (i.e. performing at a concert) the same as the rest of us do (i.e. for going to work), not be paid forever for a song that they wrote once a long time ago.

  13. Won't last long by paiute · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The loophole is that the data is converted from D to A? How hard is it to capture it back to digital? (and wait for the RIAA stormtroopers to knock on the door?)

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    1. Re:Won't last long by CoolVibe · · Score: 1
      Not hard at all. If you have quality recording equipment, nothing much is lost. Anyway, the RIAA calls D->A->D converted music 'degraded'.

      Like I care. Playing in a metal band for a couple of years have busted my ears up good enough for me not to notice :)

    2. Re:Won't last long by maan · · Score: 1

      I remember an argument being made at the height of the fight on music sharing was that the only reason today's file sharing is illegal is because you get a perfect digital copy. No degradation of quality. Recording a radio channel on tape, however, gives you a far lesser quality sound. So people (I forgot exactly whom) said that this was OK, but sharing MP3s was bad.

      So under the same arguments, the MIT's system is legal, since they're giving you an analog stream. Even if you redigitize the analog stream, you have a worse file than what the server has on disk.

      Maan

    3. Re:Won't last long by W32.Klez.A · · Score: 1

      Um, MP3s are definitely not a perfect digital copy.

    4. Re:Won't last long by swb · · Score: 1

      No more difficult than it is on any of the cable/sat music channels right now, all of which presumably have the blessing of the recording industry right now.

      MIT's system is only marginally different in that someone you know or you might actually get to control what gets played once in a while. For the most part, though, you don't know what's being played and its like taping the radio, albeit with no commercials. Great if you want to put together canned mixes (the commercial variants being more highly genre specific).

    5. Re:Won't last long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be A -> D -> A -> D -> A.

      The music starts analogue, unless it's pure computer-generated (or otherwise digitally generated) sound, with no voice at all, and it ens analogue when leaving the speakers too.

      And yes, each conversion D -> A or A -> D degrades the music, A -> D -> A (CD) being higher quality, and the best quality is obtained by never ever making the music digital (live performance).

    6. Re:Won't last long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      >Um, MP3s are definitely not a perfect digital copy.

      I've always wondered why that point was never put in front on trials. If people were to actually share CD-dumps (in ISO, WAV, FLAC or whatever format) then yes it would be a perfect digital copy of the original CD.

      But MP3 files (or OGG, AAC, etc) are lossy CODECs, and as such the quality is lower than the original, just like a FM transmission or a CD-to-tape recording.

  14. analogue music by squibix · · Score: 1
    With theis system you request music over the net, but it comes in over the cable tv cable, in analogue form. To quote the Boston Globe article on the supject:
    The tough limits on digital music broadcasting didn't apply to analog broadcasting, the kind used by MIT's cable television systems. A cable broadcaster simply pays a blanket royalty fee to the major music licensing organizations, such as the American Society of Composers, Authors & Publishers, or ASCAP.
    Like most colleges, MIT already pays such a fee to those organizations. And a cable broadcaster doesn't pay the additional royalty to the record companies. So Winstein and Mendel built a network that takes orders over the Internet, but plays the music back over the cable system.
  15. Analog file sharing. by yoder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One step forward and two steps back. All in the name of progress and innovation. Instead of using the technology we have now and improving upon that, we have to go back and use previous technologies to bypass roadblocks set up by the multimedia mafiosi. Oh well, hope this pans out.

    --
    "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!" -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
    1. Re:Analog file sharing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either that or highlighting certain unnecessary idiosyncrasies in the law. It's clear that the law is having problems keeping up with changing technology. There's no reason why P2P filesharing should be different for analog content than for digital. There's no reason why cable internet connections should enjoy greater privacy protection than DSL connections. There's no reason why internet radio should be treated any differently than regular radio. There's a whole slew of these kinds of regulations that make distinctions where it doesn't make sense or doesn't make distinctions where it does make sense.

      It's clear that lawmakers need everyone's help in highlighting flaws in the laws.

  16. This Time Next Week... by turgid · · Score: 2, Funny
    ...there will be new laws in place outlawing this.

    *sigh*

    1. Re:This Time Next Week... by back_pages · · Score: 2, Interesting
      ...there will be new laws in place outlawing this.

      I wouldn't bank on it. It sounds like they have simply given end-user control to the same type of cable-tv music channels that practically every digital cable package includes. In essence, they have created a new and improved "Listener Request Show" on said cable music channels.

      I'd think that any law against what MIT is doing would either prohibit broadcast of analog music (fat chance), listeners making requests for songs to play (fat chance), or be so acutely targeted at this LAMP system that it would beg to be tried in court.

      My lesson for today is that ingenuity trumps legislation. The RIAA would be better off if they tried more things like 50 Cent putting golden tickets in retail CD cases. Not that this is the only or best solution, but at least the guy is doing something new and untried to get his album platinum and discourage piracy.

  17. Analogue vs Digital by rbbs · · Score: 5, Informative

    Would they not have a license problem as they can control the program by rewind and fast forward. In an analogue medium the flow is linear - this way, people can control the order of the music which probably means their analogue license won't cover it...

    (In the uk at least, if you wish to broadcast music, there are controls on how many tracks from one album / label etc you can broadcast in a set period of time. )

    great idea if it's legal though.

    1. Re:Analogue vs Digital by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, analogue != linear. Tape == linear (no matter if we are talking cassette tapes or DAT).

    2. Re:Analogue vs Digital by glasser · · Score: 1

      No, you are just wrong. The point is, when it comes over the television cable into the TV in my dorm lounge, the signal is analogue, not digitally encoded. This has nothing to do with how the music is stored on the server (digitally), or what order songs come in, or if they're rewinded, etc.

    3. Re:Analogue vs Digital by rbbs · · Score: 1

      I think maybe i didn't make my point clear. What i meant was that no matter how the music is played, if you can change the order of the tracks (as heard) then you change the terms of the licensing. If you broadcast things over the radio, then you can't do that as you have a one way commuincations channel. If you do it in such a way as to allow the end user to change that, then then you need are effectively changing the terms of the license. Maybe i shouldn't have used the word digital in the title, but i assumed that as the medium is two way, then the music will have been encoded digitally at some point in the process and that is what allows the rewind and fast forward functions to work. I'm assuming it doesn't change pitch when they press fast forward and there isn't an open relay for every conceivable room and channel in the university...

  18. All we need now by lee7guy · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Is a Kazaa client capable of handling analog files. :)

    --
    Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam
    1. Re:All we need now by geekster · · Score: 1

      And an analog computer!

  19. So it's a free version of this? by barcodez · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It's basically a free version of Launch. Which is all very well but does it really take MIT to think this up. First time I used Launch I thought "wouldn't it be cool if this was free".

    --

    ----
    1. Re:So it's a free version of this? by Freshie · · Score: 1

      Bah, and it doesn't work in Firebird. They're loss...

      --
      'I don't want more choices. I just want better things.' - Edina Monsoon
    2. Re:So it's a free version of this? by New+Here · · Score: 0

      > a free version of Launch

      there's no such thing as a free lunch!

    3. Re:So it's a free version of this? by eryanv · · Score: 1

      For a bit of history about LAMP, Keith (and perhaps some other people) came up with this idea in high school, and at the time was called the LUXO ACA Music Project. Chances are that LUXO outdates Launch by a bit, considering that he graduated in 99 and it was functional in 98. So no, it doesn't take MIT to think this up, it just takes a couple of high schoolers in Illinois.

  20. Good Luck.. Risky venture by nurb432 · · Score: 0, Informative

    Part of the legal power that is being exerted is the very fact that its NOT analog signals..

    The DMCA power that is being tossed around as a large stick applies only to digital format.

    Since they are moving the audio do digital format, they potentially are asking for trouble.

    Plus AFAIK a license to broadcast analog doesn't automatically give you a license to broadcast digital ( it makes sense that you should be able too, but when does law have to make sense? )

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Good Luck.. Risky venture by jareds · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What the hell are you rambling about?

      Part of the legal power that is being exerted is the very fact that its NOT analog signals..

      LAMP broadcasts analog signals over cable, as permitted by MIT's licenses with ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC.

      Since they are moving the audio do digital format, they potentially are asking for trouble.

      That's backwards. Audio from CD's, which are digital, is being broadcast as analog, just like any radio station does.

      Plus AFAIK a license to broadcast analog doesn't automatically give you a license to broadcast digital ( it makes sense that you should be able too, but when does law have to make sense? )

      The audio is not being broadcast digitally.

  21. MIT and Pirated Files? by code_echelon · · Score: 1

    Its funny that some of the most noticeable things that come out of MIT are new ways to pirate software, movies and music. Like there aren't enough sources for them to find there Britney Spears albums already. This will be outlawed very quickly as it will soon be used as just another way to pirate copyrighted files. Also I am dissapointed that they took a step back and went back to analog instead of working on newer existing technologies.

    1. Re:MIT and Pirated Files? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm glad someone said it. This is still theft of IP. Just because there is a loophole that makes it possible, doesn't mean that it is moral.

      The /. crowd has often disapointed me with their blatant support of IP theft. When will this industry grow up? If you want open source to be taken seriously, you have to start acting like serious people.

    2. Re:MIT and Pirated Files? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      The very concept of IP is immoral, so I guess it just goes hand in hand.

  22. It won't stay free for long. by Charcharodon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They will still have to pay royalties on it, much in the way radio stations and web casters do. Remember the big fight last year over this? I'm sure they will try to argue that it is actually a webcast reguardless of the fact if it is analog or digital. Once they do that then they will have to pay per song played and that will stop it dead in it's tracks. If they do manage to convince the authorities it's more like on demand cable I'm sure their is or soon will be reg's that mandate royalties as well. Private networks are the way to swap music, throw a lan party, set up a wireless, or even run cable down the hall. When all else fails get yourself a portable or a hand full of DVD-RW's/CD-RW's and walk it over to a friends house. There are plenty of ways of sharing data that RIAA can't track/stop.

    1. Re:It won't stay free for long. by gertsenl · · Score: 1
      Quote:
      I'm sure they will try to argue that it is actually a webcast reguardless of the fact if it is analog or digital.

      Ya, those bastards will probably even try to say it's a webcast regardless if it's broadcast over the web or on TV!

      --
      --Leo
    2. Re:It won't stay free for long. by csnydermvpsoft · · Score: 1

      It's not a webcast, though. This is no different than a traditional radio station having a request form on their web site, other than the fact that this is automated.

    3. Re:It won't stay free for long. by EvilSporkMan · · Score: 1

      Private networks are the way to swap music, throw a lan party, set up a wireless, or even run cable down the hall. When all else fails get yourself a portable or a hand full of DVD-RW's/CD-RW's and walk it over to a friends house. There are plenty of ways of sharing data that RIAA can't track/stop.
      Hear, hear! Sneakernet is the wave of the future, but I advocate USB flash drives instead because they don't get scratched up and they take less time to read/write. Also, they're really cool ^_^

      --
      -insert a witty something-
    4. Re:It won't stay free for long. by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
      I like them for the casual trade, but these days I usually don't fool with anything less than a few gigs of video or music at a time. I absolutely hate optical media, but it is a necessary evil until flash memory starts costing a dollar or two a gig. I do go pay hard cash for things I really like, but when it comes to the other crap that turns out to be so so, it doens't even stay on my harddrive long enough to take up much space.

      There is a fee-based rental service that I have been using to get movie rentals that is getting closer to what the public wants. www.movielink.com Not the best sound quality, but the price is about the same as the local video store and it only takes an hour or so to download a fairly new movie.

      They still have a way to go though. The final product that I desire is DVD or CD quality downloads of spanking brand new music and video with no rights management BS. In other words I don't want to wait for DVD (think opening night downloads) and I'm not going to pay $12-17 or an album with the one good song on it that they beat to death on the radio

  23. stealing or a thesis? by rudabager · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What is stopping the students on campus from contributing their "CD's" in mp3 form to LAMP? If they could do this and bump up the channels then this would be exactly the same as p2p file sharing, the only difference is that its analog and the "offending" files arent on your computer. These students are doing the exact same thing as all the people the RIAA calls "theifs," only MIT is doing it in analog. Its stealing in digital but it's a PHD thesis in analog. How stupid are these laws?

    --
    If I wanted easy I wouldnt be an engineer or a patriot.
    1. Re:stealing or a thesis? by Cheeze · · Score: 1

      The laws are stupid because they make a distinction between digital and analog. In the terms of music, an analog performance can be as good, or better quality than a digital one. A live performance is technically an analog performance (supposed to be anyways).

      Wouldn't a pure digital performance be one generated by a computer in the first place? CD's and mp3's are just analog performances recorded on digital media (most of the time).

      What's stopping someone from making a device that makes every possible sound in digital format, and then running through billions of iterations, and then copyrighting the output?

      A million monkeys with a million typewriters....something about shakespeare...

      i could be full of poo-poo though.

      --
      Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
    2. Re:stealing or a thesis? by jareds · · Score: 0

      This is surely not a PhD thesis.

  24. I would love to use it. by PBKing · · Score: 1

    This is incredibly exciting. If this makes it, I can just format my music drive, and have all of that space free to use again. To me it's not about "having" all of the music I could ever want. I just want to be able to LISTEN to whatever music I want whenever I want. If that can be streamed to me, then FANTASTIC. I want on demand everything, and this is a good start.

    1. Re:I would love to use it. by smaug195 · · Score: 1

      Well if you have a windows PC, Rhapsody gets you unlimited listens for 9.99$ a month.

  25. creator's universal newclear power net working by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's ALL about sharing/motives/intentions/behaviours. the daze of felonious greed/fear/ego based corepirate nazIE hoarding, is WANing into coolapps/the abyss.

    those who have ignored/defied the caring/sharing mandate, best get ready to see the light.

    consult with/trust in yOUR creator... that's the spirit.

  26. TiVo to the iPod by ebusta · · Score: 2, Funny

    Awesome! Now all I need is that ellusive TiVo -> iPod software and cable bundle.

    --
    Ballmer: Windows is more secure than open source code
  27. Hell's frozen over, folks. by gertsenl · · Score: 5, Funny

    From the article, for those who read all the way: "Mr. Winstein said he once received an e-mail message from a fellow student complimenting him on his choice of music (Antonin Dvorak's Symphony No. 8) and telling him "I'd like to get to know you better." She signed the note, "Sex depraved freshman."" This is a freshman girl at MIT... who is looking for loving... wants to get to know a gangly CS grad student... I AM STUPIFIED. Know what this means? This clinches it. The only reason we nerds are not getting any is because we're not looking for it. We're looking up net porn and wondering why we don't have girlfriends, while this girl's crying in her room about why we're not asking her out. Get out of your rooms and face the sun, gentlemen! Take a stand! Make this the day that college dorks around the world get girlfriends! WHO'S WITH ME?!

    --
    --Leo
    1. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by rudabager · · Score: 1

      Im a computer geek and she [link from my hompage rui.paytheprice.org] isnt.

      --
      If I wanted easy I wouldnt be an engineer or a patriot.
    2. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by illumin8 · · Score: 4, Funny

      She signed the note, "Sex depraved freshman."" This is a freshman girl at MIT... who is looking for loving... wants to get to know a gangly CS grad student...

      I listened to this story on NPR this morning, and when they asked the guy what type of music he liked, he said... (drumroll please) he was a big fan of show tunes. I think I can safely say that he probably isn't interested in some sexually deprived (or depraved for that matter) freshman girl. He's probably more interested in her brother.

      --
      "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
    3. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by PPCAvenger · · Score: 1

      Just because she's looking for sex doesn't necessarily mean you'd want any from her.

      Think about it, she's in a school surrounded by men who'd sleep with anything provided they had a high enough blood alcohol level as well as a bunch of geeks who ... well, I don't have to describe that situation here, do I?

      In this environment she's "sex depraved"?

      I know they say you should never look a gift horse in the mouth but I'm not getting it on with a damn horse. I'm not THAT desperate.

    4. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by gertsenl · · Score: 1

      Wow, good call.

      --
      --Leo
    5. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but that would involve actually talking to a girl.

      Until someone reverse engineers that communication protocol and publishes a spec, that will remain beyond the grasp of the majority of the crowd here.

    6. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by codyhess · · Score: 1

      from Wayne's world:
      Let me tell you something about women, Wayne. They want you to come get them, they like it.

      --
      Standup Comedian New York, NY
    7. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by FerretFrottage · · Score: 1

      The article goes on to say"...politely declined the offer..." So I guess in this context tell her to "F off" would be considered polite.

      --
      "Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
    8. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      "This is a freshman girl at MIT... who is looking for loving... wants to get to know a gangly CS grad student... I AM STUPIFIED. Know what this means?"

      That there's probably a reason she's sex-depraved at a school full of horny geeks? And it most likely has nothing to do with them staying in their rooms and looking at net-porn. Remember, many of the reasons girls don't like geek guys work the other way around too.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    9. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you read the story on the New York Times, the "sex-depraved freshman" [sic] was referring to his tastes in classical music (specifically, Dvorak)

    10. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      Maurice Minnifield of Northern Exposure Fame, loved showtunes and was not gay.

    11. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by GPB · · Score: 1

      How do we know that the message actually came from a female? The NYT article called her "she", but I have yet to see any proof.

      -B

    12. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by nilloc · · Score: 1

      Do you have a license to the play music on your website?

    13. Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. by Belgand · · Score: 1

      I'm not certain how I feel about "sex depraved" girls. Really it depends on her kink. However, since I think she was intending to write "sex deprived" and is a student at MIT I wouldn't touch her either. I demand my geek girls to have slightly better spelling or at least know their way around a spell-checker.

      I am going to look like such an idiot if I managed to mispell one word in this.

  28. no static at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no moretoll 'man' can win this daze? how lyrical?

  29. Already in place, silly. by AndyRooney · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hi, have you been to college? Many, many, many colleges around the US that are too small to afford an FCC license and/or transmission equipment for a radio station broadcast over cable today. They have all the media in one place, you schedule blocks to DJ with training for the equipment, and users turn on their TV to listen. MIT *already has* pays royalties to do this. The absolute only thing different between this and a small college station is that they've automated the process so that you can do it from home, and thus don't need training for the board. Seriously, this isn't something that the RIAA doesn't know about, it's just a "Hm, cool." addition to an existing, approved system.

    1. Re:Already in place, silly. by spilich · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree.

      Imagine a radio station that allowed one listener at a time to log into the radio stations website and control the play list for the next 80 minutes. A cool idea, but not anything revolutionary. They just multiply this basic idea by 16 channels and broadcast over cable instead of FM. Why would the RIAA care? Until every user has control over their own playlist, what's the big deal?

      I doubt this threatens the RIAA, and I'd be surprised if the number of Kazaa downloads from the MIT network decreased as a result.

      Now give EVERY user control over their own channel and you've got an interesting system. That's when the RIAA sends in the lawyers.

      Cheers

  30. Yes, way to go. by leomekenkamp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    According to your (Score:4, Insightful), no, you are not the only one, but you are incorrect anyway ;-). What if we were talking about FM radio here?

    Reread the original post with FM radio in mind, and then tell me the RIAA will have lawyers drafting notes to have all FM radio stations shutdown because of the comments of people that say they are recording songs from FM...

    --
    Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
    1. Re:Yes, way to go. by HardYakka · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Actually, there are rules that prevent radio stations from


      1. Playing more than 3 songs from a specific album in an hour.
      2. Playing more than 4 songs by a specific artist in an hour.
      2. Announcing their playlist to the public in advance.
      3. Playing entire songs without voiceover/overlap

      These rules are to prevent the exact scenario you are proposing.

    2. Re:Yes, way to go. by slimak · · Score: 1, Insightful
      don't forget...

      5. playing high quality music

    3. Re:Yes, way to go. by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 1

      Realise that if this endeavour is used as a thinly-veiled mass piracy scheme (as the grandfather post suggested), then RIAA will come down on it like a ton of bricks.

      The average FM radio station has to comply with the copyright terms set by RIAA and other copyright holders. If a radio station was set up specifically with the aim of promoting recordings, or if it didn't jump through the relevant legal hoops, then it would be shut down faster than you could say "Britney Spears".

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    4. Re:Yes, way to go. by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 1

      My favorite radio station has had their playlist up on their website for months...
      DJs also frequently tell you what's comin up in the next 5-10 songs.

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    5. Re:Yes, way to go. by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 1

      Yes, I've read this several times now, but each times, there is no evidence to back this up. Please provide a cite.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    6. Re:Yes, way to go. by HardYakka · · Score: 1

      1. What? This is slashdot. I don't need to backup my opinions!

      2. Here are some references :)

      3. Quick google search and here's the definitive answer from a respected authority.

  31. Radio 1984? by 87C751 · · Score: 1
    Don't radio stations have all sorts of restrictions on how much control the users have over the playlists?
    Not that I've ever heard, and not as draconian as you describe. Citation, please! Oh, and they're "listeners", not "users".
    --
    Mail? Put "slashdot" in the subject to pass the spam filters.
  32. No need to register by Awptimus+Prime · · Score: 1

    Here and here.

    You /. mods should try news.google.com and save our souls from the NY Times registration database. The same goes for you submitters. It takes a couple of seconds and would save /. readers some time.

    1. Re:No need to register by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah that's a good idea, pity you spent your time looking for those and making that post when you could have just clicked the REG FREE link in the article.

  33. So analog is allowed? by aXlH · · Score: 1

    relies on the more relaxed copyright restrictions on analog transmission formats like cable.

    Just watch your ethernet cabling with an oscilloscope while pumping mp3's over the net.
    Looks like analog signals to me.

  34. After loosing a good chunk of rights, privacy, my music collection ... common, anything But the tv!

  35. Other side of Cambridge, MA by Animaniac · · Score: 1, Funny

    It would be nice if we could get this at the other end of Cambridge... Wait, Harvard doesn't even have the dorms wired for Cable TV yet! Damn you MIT, one day we'll show you! *shakes fist*

    1. Re:Other side of Cambridge, MA by paiute · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Fight fiercely, Harvard!
      Fight, fight, fight!
      Demonstrate to them our skill.
      Albeit they possess the might,
      Nonetheless we have the will.
      How we shall celebrate our victory?
      We shall invite IT
      Up for tea! How jolly!
      Pull that optical down the wall
      And fight! Fight! Fight!

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    2. Re:Other side of Cambridge, MA by toddestan · · Score: 1

      After living in dorms, I would think that no cable TV would be a good thing.

      Few things are worse than a roommate who is hooked on some crap like Spike TV.

  36. Why you people just dont get it. by mumblestheclown · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Whoever came up with this idea is clever. But, he/she similarly totally misunderstands the point of copyright laws by playing "bright lining" games (as do, in my experience, many slashdot readers).

    (the term "bright lining" means doing some activity with a full knowledge of where the law or regulation is and doing something right up to this regulation, this living up to the letter of the law, though, the implication is, not the spirit.)

    Copyright is a socially constructed concept. Basically, copyrightholders are entitled to a monopoly of sorts for a limited time on their work. most people agree that the primary reason for this is to encourage more creation of works.

    When people talk in terms of "it's legally okay to copy a song from the radio" or "it's legally okay to copy three pages, but not the whole book", then they are basically referring to PRAGMATIC copyright interpreations and rulings based on past technological and social circumstance. as technology and social circumstance change, it may become necessary to change (usually tighten) what is allowed in order to best preserve the spirit and intention of copyright, which, again, is to encourage authors.

    here's a really obvious sign of when the spirit of copyright is broken--i call it the "extrapolation" argument. basically, somebody takes an existing interpretation and tries to "scale it up":

    • sharing music with your kid sister is ok, so sharing music with everybody's kid sister is (Napster)
    • photocopying one page is ok, so let's set up a distributed system via amazon's new full-text thing by which everybody downloads one page and somehow they are combined again (slashdot/amazon)
    • MIT has a blanket license for analog music / copying music from existing analog sources of music is ok (radio - unscheduled recordings, includes ads, not complete songs), so let's play a clever trick by which people can get whatever they want in a high quality, but analog format (MIT)
    All three of these will work, in the short term. And all three will generate stricter interpretations and a clamp-down, because they are so clearly against the spirit of the socially beneficial copyright law (oh, shut up already, completely-anti-copyright anarcho-libertarians - go and do a little historical research about every attempt to do away with copyrights and patents completely). The end result of this will be stricted interpretations and more bitching and whining on slashdot. What is the root cause of this? The evil RIAA and MPAA? Yes, they occasionally go overboard (the mickey mouse extension act is pretty egregious), but generally they are in the right.

    The root cause is those who think that they're being clever by bright-lining copyright interpretations without realizing that they are interpretations that are subject to reasonable modification as circumstances warrant, not god-given cast-in-stone truths. or, in other words, more technological sense than social understanding.

    Disagree? reply, not mod down.

    1. Re:Why you people just dont get it. by back_pages · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Interesting points, but you do seem to advocate (or at least, predict) that all of these society-justified (is there a better word?) practices will be righted by legislation. Whether or not it is truly Right in the universal sense, or legal, or nice, our society does largely support the idea of file sharing.

      Would you say it is then misguided for 50 Cent to put golden tickets for diamonds in 4 of his first million CD cases for his latest album? Johnny Cash's "American 4" included a DVD of a single video for the same price as a top name CD (and Cash certainly fits that bill.) These are plans to redefine the value of CD purchase to include something that fans cannot (easily) get by file sharing and seem to acknowledge that society tolerates this admitted widescale copyright infringement.

      I'm not disagreeing, but curious how you would resolve these major label acts that are attempting to give fans a legitimate incentive to purchase the CD rather than download. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't a complete failure. "American 4" was the first CD I've bought in several years and specifically because I wanted the DVD with the video. If not for that, I would have likely downloaded the content regardless of a quasi-legal system like MIT's or stricter laws on outright file sharing.

    2. Re:Why you people just dont get it. by stewwy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      An important point overlooked often is that for a law to be effective it must be be supported by a large majority of the population, at least in a democracy. It must also be seen to be fair. The copyright laws have been seen as unfair since the Disney case, when it became obvious that copyright was no longer a limited time monopoly, as you quote. But became effectivly a monopoly for all time, thus depriving the general population of a right they previously enjoyed and leading to the general contempt in which these laws are now held. The law of unintended consequences is the only law thats always held true!

    3. Re:Why you people just dont get it. by radish · · Score: 1

      You seem to think that these marketing ideas are purely anti-p2p. I have to be honest and say that had I heard about either of these schemes in a different context I wouldn't have even considered them as being anti-copying. People have been using freebies, giveaways and competitions to market products (including CDs) for a very long time, way before Kazaa.

      In the UK the people who compile the weekly pop charts brought rules in about 10 years ago to limit the maximum length of a single. The problem (as they saw it) was that major labels, in an effort to make people buy their single, were putting all sorts of extra tracks, remixes and live versions on the CD. Sometimes you ended up with almost an entire album of material for your $5. The downside was that smaller labels couldn't afford to compete and so it was seen as unfair. The result was a limit of 3 tracks and 20 mins runtime, plus a limit of 3 formats (cd, 12" etc)per release.

      I always wondered about how well those things worked as a marketing tool, because I certainly wouldn't go to a CD store and say "I was going to buy artist A but artist B has an extra bonus - I'll buy that instead even though I hate country music!". Maybe it helped with people who were thinking of buying some album, giving them the extra push to actually doing it - I dunno. But still, including a DVD is nothing new (I've been buying albums with DVDs in the box for months now) and I remember AVI videos on CD singles 5 years ago.

      And don't forget that the golden ticket idea was patented by Willy Wonka - and he did it to sell more chocolate, not because people were pirating his product with matter convertors!

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    4. Re:Why you people just dont get it. by orangesquid · · Score: 1

      What I don't get is this "blanket license."

      Where is my portion of the money? I am an artist!

      Is this "blanket license" something done by the RIAA? I am not affiliated with them, so it won't cover me.

      --
      --TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive
    5. Re:Why you people just dont get it. by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I think you have the right idea, regarding your comments about the spirit of copyright.. but look at this particular comment from the article, I think it sheds some light:

      "It's almost an act of performance art," Mr. Zittrain said. Mr. Winstein, he said, has "arrayed the gerbils under the hood so it appears to meet the statutory requirement" - and has shown how badly the system of copyright needs sensible revamping.

      My interpretation of this is that the system the MIT guys have developed is supposed to demonstrate that you can build a feasible, centralized, (somewhat) random-access music distribution system within the framework of existing law. You can do this using technical slight-of-hand and the particular legal circumstances regarding analog transmissions.

      When people realize that you can have this almost-Napster legally, which provides a similar service, the point is to realize that the new laws are broken. There's a huge distinction, technically, between a P2P network and this project... however to an end-user the effect is much the same - you can dial up some music, when you want, from a big selection, somewhere else. So really - what's the point in making a distinction legally between analog and digital transmission rights, if you can accomplish much the same thing with either?

      Maybe I'm off-base but that's what I got out of it.

      By the way, when you say:

      The evil RIAA and MPAA? Yes, they occasionally go overboard (the mickey mouse extension act is pretty egregious), but generally they are in the right.

      In the right legally, perhaps. Morally and logically, not so much.

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    6. Re:Why you people just dont get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      the term "bright lining" means doing some activity with a full knowledge of where the law or regulation is and doing something right up to this regulation, this living up to the letter of the law, though, the implication is, not the spirit.

      Dude, I don't write the laws. When I pay my taxes, I am entitled to claim everything the tax authorities allow me to, even if they are stupid deductions, bad tax policy, and even though I am well off and could afford to pay more!

      What's more, the tax authorities even encourage me to claim everything that I am entitled to.

      Now, legality and morality are different things. Is the MIT system legal? It appears to be. Is claiming $150,000 in damages for 1 downloaded song legal? That's what the law says. Are either of these actions moral?

      The music industry sidesteps the ban on payola to radio stations by using "independent promoters" to funnel their cash. Legal? Yes. It obeys the letter of the law while ignoring the intent.

      This industry long ago abandoned morality.

    7. Re:Why you people just dont get it. by Jonathan+Platt · · Score: 1

      What a breath of fresh air comming from slashdot. Society obviously needs copyrights and patents. With out them we'd have no medicine or technology, because every time a compnay (and lets face it all usful technological advances come from the commercial sector) innovated somthing, the next company would steal it.

      --


      VENI, VIDI, VICI, DIXI
    8. Re:Why you people just dont get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, since Winstein is the TA in our law class "Ethics and Law on the Electronic Frontier" and just gave a 2-hour lecture on the history of American copyright law, I think he knows what he's doing.

      As constitutionally constructed, copyright has an idealistic purpose. Nowadays, actual federal statutes that purtain to copyrights are about 250 pages long and were constructed almost exclusively by members involved in industry. For example, the only reason consumers have fair use protection is so that certain industries (here, video recorder) can sell their product that is legal.

      To say that one side is cheating by finding loopholes in the letter of the law is assuming that the laws were simply constructed. There's no real reason why all internet radio should pay new fees (like paying the owner of the sound recording) except the XM radio and Sirius, since they existed before 1997 (a loophole they included in the newest revision of copyright law).

      Copyright law is not intuitive, so loopholes are the basic way of working within copyright law.

    9. Re:Why you people just dont get it. by replicant108 · · Score: 1

      "oh, shut up already, completely-anti-copyright anarcho-libertarians - go and do a little historical research about every attempt to do away with copyrights and patents completely"

      Nice bluff, mumbles.

    10. Re:Why you people just dont get it. by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "When people talk in terms of "it's legally okay to copy a song from the radio" or "it's legally okay to copy three pages, but not the whole book", then they are basically referring to PRAGMATIC copyright interpreations and rulings based on past technological and social circumstance. as technology and social circumstance change, it may become necessary to change (usually tighten) what is allowed in order to best preserve the spirit and intention of copyright, which, again, is to encourage authors."

      False, fair use IS defined in the 1976 copyright act.

      copyright was fine before it was "amended" for the digital age via the DMCA. The truth of the matter is that copyright owners (myself included) should EITHER have the protection of copyright law or technical measures, they should be mutually exclusive. If you want to rely on technology to give you control beyond what copyright laws give them (and no they are supposed to give temporary LIMITED control of certain aspects of how the works they created are used, this is a tradeup since without copyright law these things would immediately be the property of the public domain) than it should forfeit the legal protection of copyright law.

      The only legitimate things illegal under the DMCA were illegal BEFORE the DMCA. Copyright law should not be abolished, it should be reverted back to the original law with an additional clause concerning protecting your works with technical measures and that doing so renders it into the public domain, since these measures restrict in ways protected under fair use.

      Patent law is fine as well, but the term should be shortened for technical innovations and it should go back to being exclusively for inventions and not ideas. Ideas aren't supposed to be patentable, which is why we have warehouses full of inventions from back when they required a working copy be submitted. Patents should also be have to genuinely be a new idea, rather than a play off an old one, or taking a brick and mortor concept and applying it to the net. There are maybe 2 or 3 things developed in a decade that should qualify for a patent. Software obviously does not qualify since concepts and ideas aren't supposed to be patentable and software is protected by copyright.

    11. Re:Why you people just dont get it. by back_pages · · Score: 1
      Well, you are absolutely right that these value-added incentives are not strictly aimed at thwarting file sharing. I only mentioned it because the original poster seemed so solid that final resolution of the RIAA/file sharing fiasco will be stricter laws. I really wonder if that poster would rule out more creative solutions to sell CDs as wrong-headed or just trendy.

      The bundled DVD with the Johnny Cash CD surely doesn't lead me to buy the disc despite disliking his music; rather I was in the store with the idea that I might buy a CD if something struck me as worth the investment. I am the type of guy who hadn't bought a CD in years and gets the vast majority of his music by infringing on copyrights.

      I like Johnny Cash, though, and his album was too new (and too non-pop) to be readily available online, plus the bundled video is, in my opinion, among the highest examples of film+music period. Without the DVD, I probably would have passed on the sale thinking that it was just another high priced CD that probably had a lot of filler tracks - in truth I only like 5 or 6 of the songs - but in retrospect it's still one of my best purchases.

      And it's not that these things need to be thwart filesharing. 50 Cent is running a contest with the first million units of his latest album - not the first 5 million or the first 50 thousand. If the diamond giveaway turns out to actually be popular, it would make for a very shrewd way to go platinum, alleviate some of the pressure to impress the label, and line his pockets. (Not that the success of the album depends on the contest, but running what's basically a private lottery for people who DO buy the CD could easily push a LOT of people on the fence into putting up the cash and buying a pressed disc.) Depending on the popularity of the diamonds, this can all happen largely in parallel with rampant filesharing - 50 Cent is hedging his bets against people downloading his CD rather than sueing his fans. I don't necessarily like the guy or his music, but I have to show a little respect for the idea that he's going to give something away to make his money rather than drag people to court. (I know he isn't stopping the RIAA or anything, but still it's good to see someone try a positive alternative to their ethically vacuous crusade.)

      And I'd bet the golden ticket idea comes straight from the chocolate factory.

    12. Re:Why you people just dont get it. by mumblestheclown · · Score: 1
      Quoteth the Idiot:

      False, fair use IS defined in the 1976 copyright act

      In a sense you are right, but, in another, more accurate sense, you are very, very wrong.

      Fair use is "defined" only as a set of general principles. They have to be (and are) reinterpreted just as circumstances change, just as I said. Nowhere in the copyright act of 1976 does it say that "photocopying 2 pages is ok, 3 is not."

      Fair Use - The right set forth in Section 107 of the United States Copyright Act, to use copyrighted materials for certain purposes, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

      1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
      2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
      3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
      4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
      I encourage you to pay attention to #1, which is often the basis for re-evaluation of fair use: the purpose and character of the use.
  37. Here's what their PDF says about sound quality. by ahfoo · · Score: 1

    "We have measured total signal-to-noise ratio, on a cheap television, at approximately 45 dB, or between 7 and 8 bits of resolution"

    Hmm. I love 8 bit mods, but I doubt this system sounds too hot. It also sounded like it was mono at this point. If that was the case, I'd say the students at MIT would be better off just downloading stuff that is high quality and freely available without restrictions. There's plenty of it.
    On the other hand, I check Kazaa the other day and I noticed that there's still about four million users. Maybe they rigged up the counter.

  38. deprived or depraved? by The+Tyro · · Score: 0

    Big difference between the two. You post would imply a lonely girl crying in her room... a "sexually DEPRIVED" girl.

    Sexually "Depraved" implies something very different (though not necessarily bad...)

    --
    Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
    1. Re:deprived or depraved? by gertsenl · · Score: 1

      Hmm, now it's a question of whether she screwed up and meant "sex deprived" or "sexually depraved"... I think we can safely assume the former because there's less characters' difference from what she wrote. ;)

      --
      --Leo
  39. Similar to the streaming fees? by Davak · · Score: 3, Informative
    "Streaming fees" to me always reminded me of "steaming feces." Anyway, I wonder if MIT will be caught by some of the other legal challenges to the analog hole.

    Anybody remember this?
    Third U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia has upheld Copyright Office's earlier decision that traditional radio stations have to pay royalties for streaming their traditional radio broadcasts over the Net (process is called simulcasting).

    Historically, American radio stations have had weird exception from royalties -- they don't have to pay anything for artists or record labels (they pay for songwriters though) for playing their music on radio, unlike most other radio stations in the world. And to complicate this issue, American Net radio stations have to pay such royalties. Now, the court fight was about this exemption rule and about applying it to simulcasting. Radio stations argued that their material that they air through radio-waves, is exempt from royalties even if broadcasted over the Net. This obviously puts smaller, Net-only broadcasters in losing side as they need to cough up to RIAA every time they play music on their station, while benemoths such as Clear Channel (world's largest radio station owner) don't have such costs involved.

    "The DMCA's silence on AM/FM webcasting gives us no affirmative grounds to believe that Congress intended to expand the protections contemplated," the Philadelphia appeals decision reads. "The exemptions the (DMCA) afforded to radio broadcasters were specifically intended to protect only traditional radio broadcasting, and did not contemplate protecting AM/FM webcasting."


    1. Re:Similar to the streaming fees? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing is, they're not streaming it through the web - they're playing it on tv, which is MUCH closer to radio than tv... the whole point of this is that it plays the music in analog, not digitial, which gets around these issues

  40. Almost there... by RobinH · · Score: 1

    Soon they'll come up with a way to share music wirelessly. Some day, every living room and automobile will come with a "receiver" for this amazing new technology. Thousands of music broadcasters, calling themselves "stations" will broadcast music freely over the airwaves. "Free Music for All!"

    Of course, if you want digital quality, that will still cost you $10 per month.

    --
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
  41. I'm still at a loss by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm still at a loss - how is lossy analog via FM radio or television still any different than lossy digital music, such as MP3s? Is it simply an issue of availability that makes MP3s so detestable by the MPAA?

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    1. Re:I'm still at a loss by telstar · · Score: 1
      "I'm still at a loss - how is lossy analog via FM radio or television still any different than lossy digital music, such as MP3s?"
      • DMCA ... the first letter stands for Digital. I'm sure the RIAA despises both, but they've got carte blanche legal power to prosecute the latter.
    2. Re:I'm still at a loss by slappyjack · · Score: 0

      I htink MP3s are so detestable becasue the average user cna now create them unlimited times and they sound just as good as ever.

      If users couldnt just clickety clickety click their way to doing it, noone would have raised an eyebrow.

  42. Woooo by The+Tyro · · Score: 0

    l337 m4d pr0p5 to Bill Gates!!

    Hmmm... just doesn't quite roll off the tongue like I thought it would...

    Uh, never mind.

    --
    Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
  43. Different from FM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    The high-tech D.J. can select, rewind or fast-forward the songs via an Internet-based control panel.

    This is precisely how it is different from an FM broadcast. This is the provision that the copyright lawyers will go after.

    1. Re:Different from FM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um, you're telling me than an FM D.J cannot select, rewind or fast-forward the songs? The internet control panel is irrelevant.

    2. Re:Different from FM by shaitand · · Score: 1

      And this is different from me calling in a request how?

  44. LAMP! by hey · · Score: 1

    So Microsoft sponsored LAMP?!
    But LAMP is Linux Apache Mysql {Perl, Python, Php}
    eg http://www.onlamp.com/

  45. IUMA.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, the title says it all. Go there! IUMA.com

  46. The structure of the music biz can change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The music industry will change to meet the technological realities of today.

    Just because business structures worked in the past does not make the structure inherently 'good' and does not imply any right for them to exist in the same form in the future.

    Existing companies will innovate or be driven out of business by upstarts.

    Imagine the producers of horse-drawn buggies complaining about the damage done to their business by this new automobile technology!

  47. They call that music sharing? by daBass · · Score: 1

    I call it simply 16 college radio stations! I guess they wouldn't have made the NYT unless they came up with some imaginery barely-legal hook for their very "innovative" idea...

    Of course it is legal, there is no law stopping radio/TV stations allowing anyone they choose to pick what to play and this is no different.

    1. Re:They call that music sharing? by silentalk · · Score: 1

      right on!!! but those morons, i guess, never tried and enjoyed file sharing! true file sharing! and what about movies, softwares... oups.... i'm going too deep!

  48. NAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, it's

    NetBSD, AOLServer, PostgreSQL (NAP)

  49. Such kind words by nurb432 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Thanks for being so polite in pointing out that I mis-read one point in the summary.

    I read it as they were broadcasting *digital* audio over their existing analog cable TV network and based my comment off that. ..

    Are you always this fucking rude to people? ..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Such kind words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe if you hadn't made an entire post saying they were wrong, based only on that one point you misread?

    2. Re:Such kind words by jareds · · Score: 1

      Well, misinformed comments on /. are far more often the results of not reading than of misreading. I apologize if you did read it, but did so incorrectly.

      I'm not the AC who replied.

  50. Re:A rose by any other name... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SURE, mod me down for calling a spade a spade. Justify and rationalize your actions all you want, you filthy pack of thieves. Keep stealing food out of the mouth's of artists and their families, you vermin scumbags.

  51. Joint project with law school? by telbij · · Score: 1

    If they aren't collaborating with a law school to make this a more multi-dimensional project then this doesn't really strike me as a great idea.

    1. Re:Joint project with law school? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      MIT has a few classes on law, but that pales in comparison to MIT's lawyers. Trust me, MIT already has the best harvard and yale have to offer.

  52. An implication that this brings up... by John+Leeming · · Score: 1

    The FCC has mandated that all commercial and non-commercial stations are to be "digital" under a system known as "In Band On Channel (IBOC)" (which has undergone several name changes since first mandated).

    Since all radio stations are now licensed for analog broadcast of MPAA materials under ASCAP/BMI/SESAC (the major artist licensing groups that make up MPAA, along with the recording industry itself), does this not mean that all stations will now have to apply for and pay to get license/permission to play materials in digital formats?

    This could wipe out a lot of small stations, both commercial and non-commercial, and allow the megacorps like Clear Channel to control all such media, and essentially censor by exclusion any music that they deem to be "unfriendly".

    ---

    --
    "Eustace? Eustace? Are you there? Are you there?" = John Leeming
    1. Re:An implication that this brings up... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a college, and their radio stations do not play advertising. They are also sending the signal over cable television, so its not STREAMING, in the sense of internet streaming. I would guess it is a lot like digital radio that comes with digital cable. Musicchoice is a big one. There is no advertising on those channels.

      I think this is legal and a great idea.

    2. Re:An implication that this brings up... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      This [IBOC] could wipe out a lot of small stations, both commercial and non-commercial, and allow the megacorps like Clear Channel to control all such media, and essentially censor by exclusion any music that they deem to be "unfriendly".

      Yes, which is why Clear Channel and the other radio conglomerates sponsored IBOC's development and ratification. FCC chair Michael Powell is a fool/tool for approving it, as it's a blank check for Clear Channel.
      Rene Carlos

  53. Re:A rose by any other name... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think anyone here cares if they steal or not. They are all rich rock stars anyway, if they only make $1 million this year instead of $2 million they can go fuck themselves. I program open source for a living and I DON'T GET PAID, therefore no one else should. Don't worry, I won't be starving, my mom buys me all the food I want (I live in her basement)

  54. you are a slave. by twitter · · Score: 2, Interesting
    here's a really obvious sign of when the spirit of copyright is broken--i call it the "extrapolation" argument. basically, somebody takes an existing interpretation and tries to "scale it up":

    Brilliant. This is why a system of laws that was supposed to enlarge the public domain with excellent works now serves the intersts of the worlds large publishers. We have gone from 28 year copyrights to perpetual copyrights in less than 100 years. If you think things are right, you are a slave and will take any old shit shoveled your way.

    The result is that big publishers have all the power. They don't have pay artists, authors, scientists or anyone. That's because they control the channels of distribution and can force any old junk they feel like. Is it reasonable to you that 30 year old music dominates the airwaves of this country? Is it reasonable to you that scientist do all the editorial work for magazines without compensation and then pay to have their work published? Is it reasonable to you that those scientific publications are so expensive that even major universities can't aford them? The extrapolation to digital media is even worse.

    The students at MIT can share 3,500 RIAA records, great fucking big deal. They are shafted because the world is much larger than those few songs or even the RIAA. Good luck trying to get original work onto that network, it's not going to happen. The students of MIT will only get more RIAA dog food out of this new network.

    What you don't get is that the whole basis of copyright law is broken. When the founding fathers of this country made 14 year copyrights, they did so because publishing was expensive and they felt it needed to be encouraged in the vast wilderness that was the US at the time. These conditions are obviously untrue today. Publishing is cheap and the protections needed are proportionatly lower. The public domain can and will grow better if copyright law is scrapped alltogether.

    It's over already, really. Scientists have gone out of their way to publish their own peer reviewed journals because it's cheaper to them. Others will follow and leave the RIAA and other rapists like that in the same dustbin that Edison's Phonograph patents are sitting.

    The God given truth is that information sharing is good and moraly correct. Things that get in the way are evil. Greed heads like the RIAA are a particularly evil bunch of pimps.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:you are a slave. by mumblestheclown · · Score: 1
      The result is that big publishers have all the power (rest of cospiratorial rant snipped).

      The internet and related technologies are MASSIVE enablers of self-publishing on a level never seen before. Want to reach potentially billions of listeners? you can do it from your bedroom with zero third party support- when else could this be done before?

      And yet,

      • despite such technological advances
      • despite supposed mass hatred of **AA
      the intermediaries survive. how can this be?

      Proposed Answer 1: Random conspiratorial rantings mingled with statements such that the average listener/reader/watcher is an idiot who wouldn't know good music/books/video if it bit them on the ass

      Proposed Answer 2: Basic economics- supply and demand. The intermediaries do perform a scarce and valuable service that artists, whose services are inimatble and common as far as the market is concerned, view as valuable.

      Too many slashdotters such as yourself jump on #1, when #2 is clearly right.

      The rest of your post is pure nonsense rants, but this one struck my attention:

      When the founding fathers of this country made 14 year copyrights, they did so because publishing was expensive...

      This is completely incongruous to your argument. If publishing is expensive / difficult, then short or no copyright is necessary. You don't really need to copyright battleship designs that much. Now that copying is easier / cheaper, it is understandable that terms are longer.. sheesh.. at least keep your logic straight.

    2. Re:you are a slave. by srw · · Score: 1

      > This is completely incongruous to your argument. If publishing is expensive / difficult, then short or no copyright is necessary.

      You miss the point. There was a time when "publishers" were the only people who could make player piano rolls. The artists (composers) were afraid to "share" their works because the publishers would sell copies of their music and not pay the composer a dime. The publishers FOUGHT copyright laws at the time because they DID NOT WANT to pay the artists. By offering the artist a period of time where they were protected, they could allow the third party to publish their work and still get paid. The whole problem here stems from the fact that the artist was unable to publish their own work and relied on a third party to publish it.

      Today the costs of self publishing and self promoting (promoting still less than publishing) are within reach of the artist. If an artist can publish their own work, the whole copyright mess is much less of an issue. THIS is what the *IAA is scared of. They don't matter anymore once people realize it.

      I don't buy many CDs anymore, but the last two I bought direct from the artists. I would rather do it that way (the artist gets the bulk of the money) than buy them from RIAA.

    3. Re:you are a slave. by mumblestheclown · · Score: 1
      I still miss your argument completely.

      Let's say that universal self-publishing is a reality today. That is to say, something comes out of my brain, and I have the ability to instantly deliver it in retail form to any customer on the face of the planet. Furthermore, I have the ability to instantly and sufficiently market the product without any third party intermediary.

      Explain to me again how tihs makes "copyright ... less of an issue?" Because if *I* can so instantly publish my work, so can *every other bastard out there* (publish MY work), and thus I need reason to believe that I alone can appropriate the rents from my creation.

      In the case of player pianos, the publishers didnt want copyright because

      • they already *had* a way to appropriate rents (the fact that they had the rare ability (know-how + mechanism) to make and distribute physical rolls and
      • presumably there was sufficent competition in supply OR so little competition amongst player piano roll manufacturers that they felt that the artists didn't need incentive.
      Now let's talk about this **AA "is scared of" statement. I totally agree with you--the interent makes self-publishing easier, which is great for artists.

      However, however crap you may think moderm popular music may be, the fact of the matter is that today's intermediaries (read: record companies) provide services that are seen as valuable. by whom? BY THE ARTISTS... otherwise, with the rise of this new 'self-publish' internet, well fewer of them would be seeking a contract with a **AA publisher.

      Clearly, there is still a massive clamor. Therefore, the **AA constituent companies must be providing a service that is seen as valuable, despite the emergence of the internet.

      Incidentally: I challenge you to find a mechanism by which an artist has a chance at the exposure and money that a top riaa artist can get without going through a riaa constituent company. yes, selling cds off a web-page or offering free samples on kazaa are all good baby steps, but they don't get you anywhere near world-class exposure or wealth at this stage. even groups like phish (today's grateful dead) recognize this despite a very strong and dedicated fan base.

      hence, artists continue to sign on the bottom line.

  55. no, you are right. by twitter · · Score: 1
    The RIAA will step right in with current law. They will call the DJ a "Napster" just like the NYT did. "You can order up 80 minutes without adverts to record? Surely thats like killing people", they will say.

    What they will do is make is suck like other comercial broadcasts. They do this so they can shovel a small selection songs they wish to sell at you. Once they have it under control, they will leave it alone, but the loss of control will not be tollerated.

    Back to work, slaves!

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  56. A whole lot of work for the same thing by los+furtive · · Score: 1

    It's like saying "You're not allowed to walk into this high security area, but if you LIMBO in we can't do anything about it."

    --

    I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.

  57. No, *THIS* is cynical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have made these incredible advances in technology, and we decide to go back to *analog*?? You know what I mean, 1 step forward, 2 steps backward, kind of thing. It's almost like having a monopoly decide for us that THEIR OS is the best one,so YOU'LL have to stick to that, to H*LL with all other technology.

  58. It's a Conspiracy by Prince+Vegeta+SSJ4 · · Score: 1
    WMBR, used to be called the "Tech Broadcasting System" or WTBS, until some guy in Atlanta bought the call letters from them

    MIT in bed with the RIAA. OK, here's the trail. AOL/Time Warner--->RIAA---->WTBS(MIT)---->WTBS(Ted Turner)--->AOL/Time Warner--->MIT(Walker Memorial)---->ASCAP--->RIAA--->AOL/Time Warner.

    The Media Has Paid off MIT! Think about it. huh. (lol) Now I am ready to accept my -1 Mod fate.
  59. Not a functional replacement for Napster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The thing about Napster that made it cool was that it allowed you to respond to any musical impulse that you felt. Someone could walk in the room and make a crack about your cheap sunglasses, and 60 seconds later you could be playing the corresponding ZZ Top song. The LAMP project does not come close to providing this, it is really just a college radio station that happens to be very responsive to listenter requests.

    They won't have problems with the RIAA because the service really is not equivalent.

  60. Didn't Feynman say it? by caveat · · Score: 1

    "You mean, I just have to ASK for it?!?!" ...or something along those lines...

    --

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
  61. Are you INTENTIONALLY being ironic?. by clambake · · Score: 1

    (the term "bright lining" means doing some activity with a full knowledge of where the law or regulation is and doing something right up to this regulation, this living up to the letter of the law, though, the implication is, not the spirit.)

    Copyright is a socially constructed concept. Basically, copyrightholders are entitled to a monopoly of sorts for a limited time on their work. most people agree that the primary reason for this is to encourage more creation of works.


    Using your very logic, it seems that anything over, say, 28 years old can and should be rightfully put in the public domain. The very laws that extend copyright are, in fact, the "bright lines" that you mention.

  62. a similar internet-based application by boojit · · Score: 1
    I've written a functionally similar application I use to listen to my CDs at work. The system provides a web interface to my 3 Sony CD changers using the Sony "S-Link" interface included on all Sony CD changers.

    http://carter.to/discs/

    Drop me a line if you want a temporary login to try the system out...

    DaC

  63. Misleading Headline by Xeth · · Score: 1

    As someone who has used LAMP several times, I can assure you that it's not a filesharing network (Though MIT is in the process of creating a carefully monitored Legal network). Yes, one could, theoretically, convert the stuff coming down the cable line back into digital, but the quality really wouldn't be worth it. It really has FAR more in common with a request based radio station than any kind of sharing network.

    --
    If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
  64. Obligatory link by shrikel · · Score: 2, Funny

    Here's the registration-required link, shamefully omitted from the original post. (For all you anti-privacy zealots)

    --
    Any sufficiently simple magic can be passed off as mere advanced technology.
  65. MIT Music links from the rejected post machine by securitas · · Score: 1

    In case anyone else wants to read some of the other coverage....

    MIT Develops Legal Music-Sharing Via Cable TV

    MIT students have developed a music on demand file-sharing system that uses the analog campus cable TV system to bypass the Internet and digital distribution (Google link). This takes advantage of the relatively less-restrictive licensing that the recording industry makes available to radio stations and others for analog transmission. The system, called the Libraries Access to Music Project and dubbed miTunes, is backed by MIT, funded by Microsoft iCampus and will give campus access to 3,500 CDs. More at USA Today, Boston.com and AP / Detroit News.

  66. Hurray for fair use by glazed · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At least with this sort of system it stands a chance against courts and the RIAA. They can prove that they have all the music legally purchased, and potentially argue that the streaming they're doing is nothing more than playing music at a party.

    If I've got a party with 150 people at it, I'm not required to pay royalties.

  67. Re:A rose by any other name... by Jonathan+Platt · · Score: 1

    You need a life and a reality check. With out capitalism, people would be a hell of allot more lazy. With out patents the computer in front of you would have never been invented. Stealing is never right, you can justify anything out of envy or jelosy.

    --


    VENI, VIDI, VICI, DIXI
  68. am I missing something??? by 2legit · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't really see what the big idea is with the MIT LAMP system. The N Y Times is touting it as a new creative music 'on demand' system that has the potential to curb the rampant p2p campus file-sharing that has cause numerous legal and bandwidth issues. The central problem with this characterization is that it is largely hype. The system is only marginally more 'on demand' than regular radio. It broadcasts 16 universally accessible channels much in the way that satellite radio works today. The only advantage is that you get to see the playlist ahead of time and perchance reserve time in the near/far future to become a DJ on one of the stations. The so called 'on demand' feature entails being thrown in a queue of students/faculty so as to be able to listen to a specific album at an unspecified time. Other than price it would seem that this system has no advantage over internet 'streamers' (such as rhapsody, e-music, and music-match) which allow you to choose from either 100s of thousands of albums or artists for instantaneous listening all for a small monthly/yearly fee. IMHO, what made file-sharing so popular was not only the free access to a huge selection of music but the near instant gratification one enjoyed as a result of high speed networks. The internet streamers allow all this with the caveat of a nominal fee. The MIT LAMP system, however, denies the desire of music consumers to access what they want when they want it. As a result this system will do little if anything to ultimately curb either the number and volume of files being shared or the concomitant lawsuits generated by the RIAA

  69. try again, mumbles the clown. by twitter · · Score: 1
    mumbles the clown writes:

    The internet and related technologies are MASSIVE enablers of self-publishing on a level never seen before. Want to reach potentially billions of listeners? you can do it from your bedroom with zero third party support-...the intermediaries survive. how can this be?

    That's easy, your first statement is not true. The intermediaries are buying ISPs so that you can't really publish from your bedroom. My ISP, like many others, has a "no servers" clause despite a glut of bandwith. It's not a conspiracy, it's simple anti competitive practices . When the big dumb publishers get finished screwing up the internet we know, someone will make a new one.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:try again, mumbles the clown. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that's just fucking stupid. He didn't mean that the server had to physically be located in your bedroom. Just that you could record in your shower and distribute over the internet using some "well-expensive" serverbeach.com $99/mo webserver or whatever. Jeez. really.

  70. mumbles' gem. by twitter · · Score: 1
    Now that copying is easier / cheaper, it is understandable that terms are longer.. sheesh.. at least keep your logic straight.

    Ah yes, that's what idiots like you keep telling me, but you have it backward. If the point of copyright it to encourage publication, the cheaper publication is the less encouragement it needs and the weaker copyright law can be. Get it yet? If the internet had existed in 1776 the US would have no copyright laws at all.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:mumbles' gem. by mumblestheclown · · Score: 1
      umm, wrong.

      publcation (net) costs nothing if you make money on what you sell. hence, the cost of publication is basically irrelevant.

      next you're going to tell me that the fact that pencils and paint are cheaper now than before, that copyright needs to be abolished.

      If the internet had existed in 1776 the US would have no copyright laws at all. Abject stupidity, that last statement.

    2. Re:mumbles' gem. by twitter · · Score: 1
      publcation (net) costs nothing if you make money on what you sell. hence, the cost of publication is basically irrelevant.

      Ah, but morons like you think the purpose of copyright law is to assure publishers a proffit as an end rather than as a means to the spread of ideas. As the costs of publishing goes down, the need for such "protection" goes down proportionally, even under your own twisted logic. Get it yet? It's hard to be more clear.

      --

      Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    3. Re:mumbles' gem. by mumblestheclown · · Score: 1
      no, i don't get it at all. as the costs of publising goes down, the ease by which somebody *else& can re-publish your stuff goes down similarly, and thus you have no more incentive to create intellectual work thab before.

      i didn't mention nor do i believe anything about an "assured profit".. this is bullshit on your part.

      think that my "republish" argument is not true? I dare you to find a more mocked and flamed academic paper regarding IP and economics in the last few years than boldrin and levine, which basically argued on your lines. oh, i know, academics are in on your conspiracy too.

  71. How is this a good thing? by no_choice · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Let me get this straight: we already have numerous P2P networks through which people can freely share digital media. These guys have created a system that distributes ANALOG versions of digital songs; only distributes data deigned appropriate by a central authority; only distributes locally, not worldwide; only allows users to hear the music from their TV, and not move it elsewhere.

    And this is supposed to be a good thing?

    No wonder Microsoft is funding the research... creating "innovations" that make people's lives worse instead of better seems to be their specialty.

    The only "benefit" I can see from the MIT system over P2P file sharing is that the MIT system allows the RIAA executives to continue to harvest extreme wealth from the creativity of underpaid artists and the greed of contribution-hungry politician.

    Instead of creating technical kludges that make our lives worse instead of better, would it not be better to junk the DMCA and other obsolete copyright laws bought and paid for by the RIAA and friends?

  72. Hey everyone, Why not try Weed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Weed has a different view on Internet file-sharing. .

    Instead of trying to shut down file-sharing, we think people should be paid for it. It's great. It makes sense.

    http://weedshare.com/

  73. Great! by h8macs · · Score: 1

    Now the RIAA will go after cable providers. This is another huge move in the right direction! NOT.

    Moving things around is not going to hinder the massively funded music and movie industries. If anything this will close the noose that much tighter around our technology creativity and what is viewed as fair use.

    I would expect more and REAL projects from MIT.

    --
    :-( --- argh. Despair, I owe again. :-b
  74. Related work by Ken Thompson (yes, that ken) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    see: http://www.minidisc.org/keep/thompson.html

  75. Off-topic, but good news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Britney Spears: "I went to London last week and it's so cool there. I'm thinking of moving there. It's really beautiful. I love it there."

    Our gain and the U.K.'s loss! Yipeeee!!

  76. What about saving souls from the /. reg db? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    You /. mods should try news.google.com and save our souls from the NY Times registration database.
    Sayeth the registered slashdot user. Ooooh the irony!
    1. Re:What about saving souls from the /. reg db? by Awptimus+Prime · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but /. is less likely to have a privacy policy change that results in ass-loads of spam coming my way.

      Anyway, NY Times is a corrupt tool of government propoganda. Once you go through your "free registration", your in the system, man. /Dale Gribble

  77. So... by Azureash · · Score: 0

    their "project" is basically icecast with a netjuke front end? Very original!

    --
    Look at my karma - I'm bad, just like Michael Jackson!
  78. Grammar Nazi to the Rescue! by twifkak · · Score: 1

    Mr. Winstein said that the equipment cost about $10,000, and the music, which was bought through a company that provides music on hard drives for the radio industry, for about $25,000.

    Nice job, NY Times.

    --
    I know you were joking, but I want my Karma, so I'm going to reiterate your post in a serious tone.
  79. Yes, but do you need to learn ... by porky_pig_jr · · Score: 1

    the Dvorak's Symphony No. 8 first?

    Me, I would rather looking up net porn.

  80. Re:A rose by any other name... by shaitand · · Score: 1

    Your right stealing is wrong. Copyright infringment is not stealing of course, so your comments are in no way related to this article or discussion. Please stay ontopic.

  81. Re:A rose by any other name... by silentalk · · Score: 1

    you should become a riaa investigator, there is a definite future cause you would have to prosecute 60 millions criminals!

  82. mod this funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    please

  83. Good idea, but solves nothing by Belgand · · Score: 1

    Basically this is the same thing that exists on almost every single digital cable system today, the only difference is that it's owned and run by the school, they chose albums they thought the students wanted, and you can briefly control it at times. Essentially all they're doing is mixing a campus radio station with digital cable music systems.

    Of course, this won't do a damn thing about piracy. I have very little choice in what to listen to, I must rely entirely on what they chose, I need a tv and cable (not certain if that's standard for students or not) when more students are likely to have a computer than a tv, and I sure as hell can't put it on my iPod and listen to on my way to class.

    All they've really done is make a newer, more user-controlled campus radio station. Sure, 10 points for improving slightly on an old idea (at least, for some) but absolutely zero for doing anything about kids who can't be bothered to respect people's intellectual property rights.

  84. Re:A rose by any other name... by deedee361 · · Score: 1

    ok, fair enough, but tell my why should I pay for Jimmy Hendrix music when the guy is long since dead, or contribute toward Beatles royalties when 2 out of the 4 guys in the band are dead, and all the royalties don't even go to Apple Records anymore anyway.