Linux Kernel 2.6.0-test10 Released

antrix angler writes "Linus Torvalds released the 2.6.0-test10 Linux kernel today, tentatively calling it the "stoned beaver" release. Linus plans to hand the kernel over to Andrew Morton in a few weeks, and then it will be up to Andrew to decide when we see the final 2.6.0 stable kernel. Download it from a mirror."

Comments

problems in test9

[cft]

i had some serious problems with my usb mouse in test9 (while it worked in test4 and before), and i don't see any mouse related fixes in the ChangeLog, so for now I guess usb mouse users should stick with older releases.

i really hope this gets fixed before 2.6.0, especially since it worked before..

Re:problems in test9

[crimsun]

Hmm...it's a tad bit more complicated. Some of the possible issues are apic related. If you're the user of a VIA chipset, this particularly is the case. I append "noapic" to the kernel cmdline to use my USB mouse.

Re:problems in test9

[tuggy]

i use a usb mouse in my laptop AND a touchpad at the same time, both work ok since test7...

Re:problems in test9

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had intermittent problems since test8, and noapic doesn't seem to have an effect (using VIA chipset). On some of the kernels I compiled, it would work on one, but not the other. The only differences between them usually were usualy which mm patch I was using. Test9-mm5 seems to be working, for now anyway.

Re:problems in test9

[dumeinst]

I had to use the boot protocol driver for my usb keyboard, couldn't get around it otherwise. what's apic?

Re:problems in test9

[arth1]

Hmm...it's a tad bit more complicated. Some of the possible issues are apic related. If you're the user of a VIA chipset, this particularly is the case. I append "noapic" to the kernel cmdline to use my USB mouse.

It doesn't seem to be 2.6-specific -- I see the same problems with 2.4.20 and 2.4.21, where USB, serial and pseudo-serial works erratic at best if apic is enabled. For a single-CPU system, you might as well compile without SMP, and for a SMP system, it apparently helps to compile with CONFIG_X86_IO_APIC commented out.

Regards,
--
*Art

Re:problems in test9

[descentr]

Just as an update to my earlier anonymous post, I compiled test10 and everything is working fine. Though I did compile without preempt enabled this time, as Linus recommended, so this may have made a difference.

Re:problems in test9

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to use both (actually, I think I can), but the part that's getting me is the wheel mouse. When I have the mouse protocol set to IMPS/2 in X, the touchpad goes crazy - pointer jumping all over, random button pushes... If I change the setting to just PS/2, everything works fine, but I have no wheel support. Is that what the Synaptics driver is good for?

System's a cheapo Dell Inspiron 2650, with Gentoo, Ge2Go card.

Re:problems in test9

[gid]

fyi, my usb mouse stopped working around test 4 or 5 (I know it worked in test3), and then started working again around test7 or 8....

Re:problems in test9

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't compiled it yet, but I hope they fixed the mem leak with the 2.6.0-mm4 I was using.

hoping that's what they mean with:

"Add a sticky "PF_DEAD" task flag to keep track of dead processes".

and the bevear is a small martyr in the quest for choices in enterprise-level solutions [stoned beaver].

Re:problems in test9

[djcapelis]

My USB mouse is working as we speak... in fact, I'm typing this on kernel 2.6.0-test9mm3... perhaps it's the MM patch, but otherwise my mouse is functioning beautifully.

Here, I'll use it to press the submit button now... (and scroll down to it too!)

Re:problems in test9

[ozbird]

I have a KT333A chipset and don't have any problems with my USB Intellimouse Explorer mouse with the IO APIC enabled. I did have to append "pci=usepirqmask pci=noacpi" to get around a couple of other issues, though. 2.6 seems pretty solid - I'm using it daily on my computer at home and at work.

Re:problems in test9

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea, I was getting a lot of SIGFPEs there. I don't have the skills to track it down, and it cleared up after a while, though :/

Re:problems in test9

[evil_one]

and I plugged my Intellimouse Explorer into my 2.6.0-t9 box yesterday and it worked flawlessly.

There are known issues with some chipsets, as covered on lkml.

Maybe you should read lkml if you're going to play with development software.

Re:problems in test9

[zCyl]

i had some serious problems with my usb mouse in test9 (while it worked in test4 and before), and i don't see any mouse related fixes in the ChangeLog, so for now I guess usb mouse users should stick with older releases.

I have been using a usb mouse in test9 with no problems. Your problem must be related to other hardware or something more specific.

If you have coding skills, try looking at a diff between the two test versions where it broke. If not, try using the entire usb subsystem as modules and see if you can temporarilly load the test4 modules for your mouse or for usb into the newer kernels.

(I will assume you already made sure the configurations were identical.)

hey...

[Ann Elk]

...nice beaver!

Re:hey...

[jjstwerff]

Could anyone please register the beaver-overlord.com domain they would be slashdotted immediatly but be popular for eternity. The e-mails from Linus will all be carved in stone as the gospels of our OS.

There should be a good business opportunity here.

Re:hey...

[Anonymous Coward]

He didn't get the joke. Or, depending on how dirty you want to get, maybe you didn't.

Re:hey...

[kworthington]

According to Network Solutions it's still available:

beaver-overlord.com
This name is available for registration.

Click continue to register now.

Works For Me(TM)

[fire-eyes]

It works for me. Upgraded from 2.6.0-test9-mm5.

This may become the final 2.6.0 :)

Rock on, Linus and team.

Re:Works For Me(TM)

[Anonymous Coward]

-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.

Wow. This makes a nice refreshing change to the "If you disagree then reply or email, don't just moderate down" sigs.

Those sigs just make too much sense and this is, afterall, slashdot. ; )

PS, how do you know someone disagrees with you before you read their message?

Re:Works For Me(TM)

[Master Controll Prog]

for anyone thinking of posting this type of post, perhaps this information would be a little more useful if you indicated the particulars of your system. the fact that this kernel "works" for a particular slashdot reader is not much to go on, by its self.

BitTorrent

[teofilo]

Here

Let's share our bandwidht!!

Honest Question

[twistedcubic]

Is 2.6 really noticably faster than 2.4 for regular desktop use (X responsiveness, etc...)?

Re:Honest Question

[fire-eyes]

Is 2.6 really noticably faster than 2.4 for regular desktop use (X responsiveness, etc...)?

Yes, it definately is.

Note that Linus says preemption should be turned off for now, there are odd problems.

Re:Honest Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I'm running test9 at the moment, the responsiveness is such an improvement, whilst a process was eating up 100% cpu, all other processes in X appear like the cpu is idle. This is how computers should be.

Re:Honest Question

[crimsun]

I suppose the real answer is "it depends, but generally yes." I don't use kernel preemptibility, and it sure seems "feels" faster -- which is of course such a rambling description that it's difficult to qualify.

I'll point you to the response I made here:
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=5208&off set=29&rows=30

(Mine's #29.) Yes, I know it's much more so the combination of XFS and mm than it is just mm. I should amend that comment...

Re:Honest Question

[tuggy]

i had preemption turned on til test9, and turned it off in test10. its much better now while playing some music.
with preemtion enabled, when the hard drive was being used the music stopped for 2 or 3 secs, and then skipped like 30seconds of the song.. very annoying.
sometimes this happened just with a click of a mouse.

Re:Honest Question

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

Preemption is one of those things thats great under ideal circumstances, but in something less it hurts more than it helps. Preemption, for anyone that doesnt know, allows one task to jump to the top of the runqueue whenever it needs to run anything if it has a higher priority than everything else. This works great until you run something like SoulSeek or Bittorrent(both wxwindows python apps..) which end up with a much higher priority than they deserve. This then preempts all of your other tasks making your system highly unresponsive.

Re:Honest Question

[PugMajere]

Preemption, as you describe it, has been there in every Linux kernel.

Preemption, as Linus referred to it in the release announcement, is Kernel preemption.

I.e, the kernel itself can be preempted. This has improved consistency for things such as xmms.

The problems you complain about are more likely the result of the new scheduler. Tell me, what nice level does X run at on your system? If it's -10, that's why your responsiveness sucks. Stop X from being reniced to -10 from 0 and you'll find that everything performs much smoother. The new scheduler does a much better job of actually respecting priorities, and as such doesn't need adjustements such as "nice" for everyday things such as running an X server.

Re:Honest Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Is 2.6 really as fast as BSD for regular desktop use (X responsiveness, etc...)?

No, it definately is not.

Note that Linus says Linux should be turned off for now, there are odd problems.

Re:Honest Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Note that Linus says preemption should be turned off for now, there are odd problems.

So, it has this great new feature, but it's broke and shouldn't be used? Linux 2.6 is starting to sound like Windows 2000. It'll probably ship with 65,000 bugs and everyone will be waiting for 2.6.1 to roll around to fix their filesystem corruption issues that didn't crop up during the beta, etc. Personally I won't be touching a new Linux kernel until at least 2.6.5 at which time they should have ironed out the issues with the complete VM rewrite and the new completely new firewall code. They did rewrite that stuff right? They seem to completely redo that shit every major version. *sigh*. I miss Solaris.

Re:Honest Question

[BlowChunx]

My question is: How does this impact single threaded apps? I do numerical simulations that are essentially single threaded, and don't care about the responsiveness of the GUI.

Re:Honest Question

[PugMajere]

VM has been modified, mostly with some improved reference counting code (rmap).

The firewall code hasn't been rewritten this time, it's still iptables. Support has been added for using netfilter against a few more things though.

I just realized I'm putting a ton of effort into posting something when I can just link you to the official document: The Post-Halloween Document

Re:Honest Question

[arth1]

Is 2.6 really noticably faster than 2.4 for regular desktop use (X responsiveness, etc...)?

No, it isn't -- it's actually slower, as it spends more time in the core kernel than the older versions. But it *feels* faster, because it is better at giving time to processes when they need it.

Worst-case scenario: Start two CPU-bound tasks on a single CPU, and measure their performance.
Best-case scenario: Start a huge amount of small tasks with unpredictable CPU needs, but which all in all saturates the bus. You'll see a gain.

My guess is that the old kernel scheduler is a little better for games and single-application server-use, while the new one is much better for normal desktop users or overloaded boxes.

Regards,
--
*Art

Re:Honest Question

[PugMajere]

Assuming you run everything at the default priority (0), the only thing you'll notice is that when you do use the gui, it will be slightly more responsive, due to your cpu-bound application being automatically given a lower priority.

In other words, you probably won't notice any change in behavior.

Re:Honest Question

[kinnell]

If you are only running a single threaded simulation, it shouldn't make any difference. If, however, you are using a GUI a lot at the same time, it may impair the simulation significantly.

Re:Honest Question

[Richard W.M. Jones]

Thanks for that tip about renicing the X server. It made a huge improvement for me (using 2.6.0-test9).

For reference here's how I fixed this, on my Debian machine: I edited /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config and removed completely the line which sets nice_value.

If you don't want to restart your X server to make the change have effect, then you can instead do:

renice 0 PID

where PID is the process ID of the X server.

Rich.

Re:Honest Question

[PugMajere]

There's a better way: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86

Err, I think that's right. Check the post-halloween document if that doesn't ask the right question.

Re:Honest Question

[Anonymous Coward]

You're definitely an idiot. And don't worry Linux eats all BSDs for breakfast. Ha ha.

Re:Honest Question

[GammaTau]

For reference here's how I fixed this, on my Debian machine: I edited /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config and removed completely the line which sets nice_value.

But the easiest way to change it is to simply type:

dpkg-reconfigure xserver-common

...and let debconf allow you to choose the nice value with the normal debconf configuration dialog.

Re:Honest Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually my friend, as you'll see from pages like this, it actually often spends much less time in the kernel. One major slowdown always present is the tenfold increase in timer interrupts. As you can see from the web page I referred to though, this doesn't always result in a net slowdown.

Re:Honest Question

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

The only thing I run at -10 is games, but I have tried those at 0 also. From what I can tell the problem is the app is running with a ~36 priority (as shown by 'top', among other apps) which is much greater than it should be, but I've yet to find a way to correct it.

Re:Honest Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah and have you ever used Sun Solaris? It whips the shit out of all the free UNIXes when it comes to stability and scalibility.

Re:Honest Question

[Stween]

No, he said for "maximum stability", it should be turned off.

People who want preemption turned on will turn it on, and will happily live with 99% stability.

Re:Honest Question

[Krach42]

Actually kernel preemption has been around for quite a while also... just only if you had an SMP system.

I've always enjoyed the responsiveness of my SMP system in Linux, and I was more happy when I learned that you didn't have it on a UP system.

Now I'm still even more happy that those on UP systems can see the responsiveness that I've been enjoying for a long time.

Re:Honest Question

[anthonyrcalgary]

oh fuck yes

2.4 was completely unacceptable. 2.6 is what allowed me to ditch Windows.

I understand there are patches to 2.4 that can give you most of the same stuff, but I really didn't feel like dealing with that.

Re:Honest Question

[ErixTr]

You sir, are the most "Anonymoust Coward(TM)" I have ever seen.

Re:Honest Question

[Anonymous Coward]

In my experience the new kernel scheduler is much better for games.

Load times are sometimes cut by as much as 50% (even more in Savage) and my pings are slightly lower.

Frames per second don't seem to be effected one way or the other. The load times and pings make a big enough difference to sell me on it. :)

Re:Honest Question

[Anonymous Coward]

If your idea of a ton of work was those two paragraphs of text...please make sure to include it on your CV so that I do not accidentally hire you..."Yeah...had to stay all weekend...some code messing up...a ton of work you know"...

Re:Honest Question

[zCyl]

But the easiest way to change it is to simply type:

dpkg-reconfigure xserver-common

...and let debconf allow you to choose the nice value with the normal debconf configuration dialog.

<MODE="Humor">
Oh, those Debian users, always using their easy hand-holding little configuration tools instead of editing files manually like real Redhat users would do.
</MODE>

Re:Honest Question

[Anonymous Coward]

'Fraid not anymore. Where's Solaris running on a 512 CPU system? Oh but it runs on a 108 CPU system? No sorry you lose buddy.

Nice Beaver [Was: Re: hey...]

[fire-eyes]

...nice beaver!

Why thank you, I just had it stuffed.

Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this name confirms Linus's rockstar-like role in the open source world, as it shows he is now addicted to both drugs and sex.

nothing here

[twistedcubic]

I think it's better to ignore such messages and let the moderators send it quickly to -1. You're advertising for the nut by respoonding with the same subject.

Re:nothing here

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if anything is ever going to be done about "overrated" abuse. It's the scourge of Slashdot, and the "editors" just don't care.

Re:nothing here

[larry bagina]

CmdrTaco's last journal entry mentions possible change to moderation. About fucking time, but they're pretty good at fucking stuff up.

devfs

[Anonymous Coward]

I know I'm anonymous, but can anyone tell me whether I have to/ really really should turn on devfs if I upgrade to 2.6?

I've tried using devfs under 2.4 several times but have never succeeded in getting it to work with my crufty (been around since slink) debian box.

And since I use ALSA and XFS the 2.6 kernel would simplify compiling desktop kernels no end.

cheers,
caoilte

Re:devfs

[crimsun]

Nope, you do not /have/ to enable devfs in 2.6. I'm using it on several machines just fine that do not have kernel support for devfs or the userspace devfsd component.

I've had both good and bad experiences with devfs+devfsd, but any problems I have had have been quickly debugged and fixed (or I've bashed my forehead for being pebkac error). Generally I err on the side of caution (except for this 2.6.0-test deal, since more testers can't hurt), so I've decided to remain without devfs+devfsd on several machines.

Yes, the build system in 2.6.0-test is /vastly/ improved.

Re:devfs

[fstanchina]

Not at all. In fact, devfs has been declared obsolete in 2.6; on those machines where I'm testing 2.6, I'm using a plain old /dev until I have time to figure out how sysfs and udev are supposed to work.

Now, if you want to use devfs, all you have to do is: 1) install devfsd, 2) compile a new kernel with devfs enabled and set to mount on boot, 3) install said kernel, 4) reboot. Doing 1 before 2 is the tricky stuff for me, I always forget that. You may also have to adjust some permissions and/or create some nonstandard devices you made yourself, but I've been using devfs on all my machines with 2.4 and it's working perfectly.

Re:devfs

[Aardpig]

One devfs gotcha in 2.6, which caught me out for a while, is that the devpts (pseudo-tty) functionality has been separated out. In 2.4 kernels, mounting /dev using devfs automatically mounted /dev/pts too; however, this behaviour has changed in 2.6, and you have to mount /dev/pts explicitly:

mount -t devpts none /dev/pts

On some systems (such as Gentoo), the rc scripts are smart enough to do this automatically.

Re:devfs

[Anonymous Coward]

I know I'm anonymous

Yes, you coward

Re:devfs

[loucura!]

Well, devfs appears to be depreciated in favour of sysfs. So no, you don't need devfs.

Re:devfs

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhh, Linux. Don't spend the time to design and get it right the first time. Don't fix existing implementations. Just scrap thousands of lines of code and do it all over again, this time with a different name.

It keeps O'Reilly in business, I guess.

Re:devfs

[enodev]

That's wrong. "sysfs - _The_ filesystem for exporting kernel objects." (from Documentation/filesystems/sysfs.txt). sysfs exports kernel data structures to userspace and in the long run should leave /proc for processes like it was meant. it is no replacement for devfs.
but there already exists a userspace daemon called udev which simulates devfsd behaviour by taking the information found in sysfs.

Re:devfs

[loucura!]

Ah, but you see, neither I nor the parent read documentation. :)

Udev

[secondsun]

I was just wondering who here has used the new udev device loader as opposed to devfs.

*Note: Udev is a user space program that manages device nodes by interfaceing with the kernels' hotplug functions. Devfs was a different implementation of this running in kernel land. By 2.6.0 devfs will be completly depreciated for udev.

Re:Udev

[crimsun]

First, to answer your question. No, I have not yet used udev. When the semester finally wraps up, I plan on taking a look -- hoping that 2.6.0-final has not been released yet (a nice long "-rc"ish plan sounds best imo). My impression is that there's still a fair amount of configuration to be done, both documentation- and code-wise (of course not forgetting conffiles), so the more eyes looking at it, the better.

I highly recommend reading Greg's OLS paper Re: udev. Go here for quick links. ...And in the off-chance that someone reading this is using Debian sid, go here for packages.

Re:Udev

[pldms]

These explained a little:

udev presentation (PDF), Google HTML version.

Detailed paper on udev (PDF), Google HTML version.

devfs works fine for me, but since some people (see second link) want thousands of disks I guess I'm not the target market. I mean ... thousands?

Re:Udev

[silvaran]

I'm running 2.6.0-test10 at this very second, and have been running every test version since test2 except for test8 (screwed up my sound system for some reason). I gave udev and hotplug a try but found hotplug to be straying behind. They had a few notes on their web site about patches for pciutils and usbutils to add something that probed all the devices (especially for coldplugging), but also said that you won't need them for 2.6.x due to the new sysfs filesystem (mkdir /sys; mount none /sys -t sysfs). But then doesn't say anything else about hotplug utility support in 2.6.x. So without a working hotplug, udev is kind of useless (since it interfaces with the hotplug).

ATM I'm using murasaki as my hotplug facility, as I've personally had the best luck with it (that's really the only reason), especially on the 2.6 test kernels. I'm also still using devfsd (which will be obsoleted by udev).

This is the extent of my knowledge about new things like udev, etc. in the new kernel. So anyone should feel free to correct any innacuracies, omissions or blatant stupidities :).

- Sil

Re:Udev

[Brian Blessed]

From what I've read, udev is being ushered in because the main devfs maintainer is awol/unpopular.
It is a shame to switch in some ways because udev does not have all the features of devfs.
Makedev is required for udev and device modules aren't auto-loaded when the device is accessed as with devfs.

- Brian

Re:Udev

[rudmer]

I was just wondering who here has used the new udev device loader as opposed to devfs.

I've tried using devfs, but I never liked it. Now I'm using udev and that works great. I had one or two devices missing but since udev is in active development I just wait for the next release.

Re:Udev

[iabervon]

The reason that devfs is not yet deprecated in favor of udev yet is that udev depends on the kernel using the new driver model for everything that gets a device. Of course, that's not udev work per se, but it means that, for example, input devices (IIRC) don't yet work quite right with it.

The kernel having explicit knowledge of what it's doing in a uniform format is a new feature in 2.6, and it's not completely universal yet. Once that all works correctly, udev should work perfectly, and it is a better design than devfs, because it puts device naming in userspace, but device numbering comes from the kernel, and the kernel tells userspace what each device actually is. This is how the division of labor is supposed to be: the kernel has internal information, which it maintains, and an API, which it defines, but userspace can use that API to specify policy.

Re:Udev

[cxreg]

That is not accurate. The maintainer is AWOL, but the replacing of devfs is a technical decision. It has lots of problems, some of which are design problems. udev CAN do everything devfs does, and better. Just about the only thing it's waiting on is complete sysfs support from all the drivers in 2.6.

Re:wonder

[yellowcord]

Reading TFA I came across this:

Btw, I tried to come up with a good name for this release. But the fact is, that as Scott Adams has so often pointed out, you can't do much better than "weasel" when it comes to funny. Ever since the "greased weasel" series of kernel releases I have been stuck for a good name.

This release is tentatively called the "stoned beaver" release (beavers are _almost_ as good as weasels, as I'm sure Scott Adams would agree).

If you feel strongly about the issue, please send your votes and ideas to "feedback@beaver-overlord.com", I'm sure somebody will find your insight fascinating.

Thank you in advance. ]

Linus

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

So what exactly would a "rock star in the open source world" be by definition? A person that has actually had sex with another human being?

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I thought that since some big corporations like IBM and Novell are picking up Linux, things would get a little more professional."

Well, how about the Shaved Beaver?

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[samadhi]

Your boss would probably be more interested why you were running a test kernel on his hardware, rather than what code name it had!

2.6

[rf0]

Well I've been using the 2.6 series for about the last 3 months on my desktop. Not had one crash and its been under heavy load. Definitly shaping up well.

Now if I could just get iptables working right

Rus

Re:2.6

[ErixTr]

Now if I could just get iptables working right

What is the problem with it?

Re:2.6

[hummassa]

use Shorewall. Simple as it can be.

Re:2.6

[zCyl]

Well I've been using the 2.6 series for about the last 3 months on my desktop. Not had one crash and its been under heavy load.

I first tried 2.6 about the same time length ago, and had horrible crashes. Then I switched back to 2.4 and the crashes went away. The crashes came back later under 2.4 and I eventually figured out that 2.6 was so much faster that it made my faulty video card overheat quicker. I swapped out the bad hardware and have been very pleased with 2.6 since.

Re:wonder

[Anonymous Coward]

Most straight men would probably prefer beavers to weasels.

feedback@beaver-overlord.com

[MonkeyDluffy]

I myself welcome our new beaver overlords!

-MDL

Re:feedback@beaver-overlord.com

[Anonymous Coward]

It's "for one", not "myself". You sound like dork that way.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's a couple steps crazier than anonymous /. users who make fun of other anonymous /. users.

Re:hurray!

[Chilliwilli]

Looking forward to it too.. but could someone please explain in layman's terms how it will effect my Linux end-user experience?

Cheers

Before we download this...

[jkrise]

Is it SCOndomware license certified?

I'd hate to spend hours downloading the thig, for SCO to screw around.
-

Re:wonder

[PGillingwater]

1. Register the in DNS beaver-overload.com
2. Wonder why there is no email
3. Correct registration to beaver-overlord.com
4. Read strange emails from hundreds of Kernel compilers voting on the above issues
5. ???????
6. Sell beaver-overload.com to a Sex site
7. Profit!!!!

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[waitigetit]

You severely overestimate the technical qualities of my boss.

Anyway, if you want to make sure your product works on the newest kernel, you want to start testing BEFORE the stable version comes out, no?

devfs on Debian: works for me

[smcv]

I know I'm anonymous, but can anyone tell me whether I have to/ really really should turn on devfs if I upgrade to 2.6?

I've tried using devfs under 2.4 several times but have never succeeded in getting it to work with my crufty (been around since slink) debian box.

And since I use ALSA and XFS the 2.6 kernel would simplify compiling desktop kernels no end.

I don't know about 2.6, but I use 2.4.x with devfs on two stable boxes ("servers" running on obsolete desktop hardware) and two unstable boxes (a desktop and a Powerbook), and they all work fine. Tab-completing commands is so much nicer when you only have device nodes for hardware you actually have; it's also handy to be able to see (say) whether your CD drive was detected properly, or how many partitions a hard disk has, by looking at the device nodes.

If you're using at least Debian 3.0 stable (woody), install devfsd, install a devfs kernel, reboot, and everything should Just Work.

What specific problems do you have with it?

Re:devfs on Debian: works for me

[Anonymous Coward]

two unstable boxes (a desktop and a Powerbook)

Unstable PowerBook? Probably a wobbly table. Or wonky lap.

Re:devfs on Debian: works for me

[wiresquire]

I'm going to come off like an MS troll here, but...

If you're using at least Debian 3.0 stable (woody), install devfsd, install a devfs kernel, reboot, and everything should Just Work.

Debian 3.0 may not be so stable. You better go checking up on this.

Re:devfs on Debian: works for me

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to come off like an MS troll here, but...
That's probably because you ARE trolling.

Re:devfs on Debian: works for me

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, for the non-Debian users:

- "stable" is a release codename referring to the current release (the previous release is "old-stable", the one that's going to become the next release is "testing").

- the Debian package archives weren't affected; the affected servers mostly served web pages, mailing lists, developer shell access etc. The main server for security updates *was* one of the four that were broken into, but Debian developers have already verified its packages directory against several offline copies (the packages are GnuPG-signed, in any case) and found that nothing there had been modified.

Re:devfs on Debian: works for me

[smcv]

[Posting anon since this is way off topic]

The hardware's fine, it's the software that's wobbly. :-)

"unstable", a.k.a. "sid", is the section of Debian that new software gets uploaded to - it's sometimes a bit untested, but usually works. It's good for development, and it's also necessary if you have new hardware that older releases don't support properly, like my Powerbook.

Re:hurray!

[DrSkwid]

> could someone please explain in layman's terms how it will effect my Linux end-user experience?

It might be slightly better

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to say that I agree, there is no way that a large corporate company is going to take a name like 'stoned beaver' seriously.

Methinks some of the people involved in Linux development need to start behaving professionally so that the OS can fulfill it's business systems potential.

Re:Debian

[fstanchina]

test9 is already available (in sid, mind you), so I guess test10 could make it into Debian within the year.

Debian

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad the 2.6.x kernel won't be in Debian until 2015.

Final?

[fstanchina]

Now it's fun to think about it as "the final 2.6.0 stable kernel". I would rather call it the *initial* 2.6.0 stable kernel.

Re:Final?

[TeknoHog]

While you're at it, drop the 'stable' as well. Remember how final and stable the 2.4.0 was?

Re:Final?

[TheJaff]

Nonono... Its the final 2.6.0 (stable) kernel, but also the initial (or first) release in the (stable) 2.6 kernel.

Wow, all this talk about horses...

Re:BitTorrent (md5)

[teofilo]

BTW, I'm not faking Linus, here is the signature :)

Frame Buffer ?

[Ploum]

I don't know why, but my Frame Buffer doesn't work with any of 2.6test kernel !

I have a lot of white lines moving on the screen like on a very old TV with noise.

I don't understand : it's a GeForce2 with a Via chipset.

Re:Frame Buffer ?

[3Suns]

You using the NVidia binary drivers? There are longstanding issues between the NVidia drivers and Linux kernel framebuffer. Solution: don't run the framebuffer, or run the non-accelerated free nv driver.

Re:Frame Buffer ?

[DF5JT]

" You using the NVidia binary drivers? There are longstanding issues between the NVidia drivers and Linux kernel framebuffer. Solution: don't run the framebuffer, or run the non-accelerated free nv driver."

The VESA-framebuffer works fine with many higher relotions (1600x1200) on my notebook together with the NVidia drivers.

Re:Frame Buffer ?

[RdsArts]

But either way, make sure to send a nice, professional email to Nvidia informing them of the troubles you are having with your hardware you've paid for.

"Patents" be damned, there's no excuse for not giving just the docs for basic access to the hardware so the kernel people can write their own open driver and have issues like this not exist.

Re:Frame Buffer ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a radeon with a voodoo chipset.

Re:Frame Buffer ?

[IntergalacticWalrus]

You just said it yourself. It's mostly because of patented stuff that they can't release open specs and drivers. And as a company, NVidia can't afford to just "damn the patents".

Re:Frame Buffer ?

[Anonymous Coward]

You just said it yourself. It's mostly because of patented stuff that they can't release open specs and drivers. And as a company, NVidia can't afford to just "damn the patents".

What do patents have to do with anything? They could release all the specs they want, and the patents would still prevent other companies from using it. But patented information would be public anyway.

It's the technology licensed from other companies that NVidia can't release, as well as their own "trade secrets" which they choose not to release. But they take it to stupid extremes, like keeping the specs for their ethernet driver secret.

Re:Frame Buffer ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that I have the latest kernel, mind you, but how about swapping that card for an old SIS 6326 and see what you get. If you boot off loadlin, and give what the framebuffer is supposed to have, then it ought to work. change cards, if possible, and then try it.
Anytime I get anything like this that won't work, I then want to see what else won't work too. Then I have a couple of things that won't work, and only 998 to go.

Re:wonder

[Anonymous Coward]

Most straight men would probably prefer beavers to weasel

In contrast, most crooked men are weasels.

mem=nopentium option

[olethrosdc]

Hm.. I remember I had used to have stability problems with my nvidia card and the VIA K133 motherboard with an Athlon CPU some time ago, which required to use mem=nopentium as a kernel argument. Do I still have to do this in the newest kernel releases?

Re:mem=nopentium option

[crimsun]

No. This was fixed in 2.4.19 (well, /really/ fixed in .20 since .19 really just disabled it completely) and in 2.5. See this page.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[wackysootroom]

Honestly, though, how many PHB's and/or CIO's read slashdot and keep up with the test kernel releases?

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the (code)name Longhorn has been in the tech media for some time now. Are you saying Microsoft could have called it "Big Floppy Donkey Dick", without negative effects?

Re:Debian

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad the 2.6.x kernel won't be in Debian until 2015.

An image (and source) for 2.6.0-test9 is already in Debian. I expect test10 to be in there shortly.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[dumeinst]

I thought that since some big corporations like IBM and Novell are picking up Linux, things would get a little more professional.

Why? so that yet another culture can get swalled into the soulless, humourless, corporate machine? I for one don't want linux to be synonymous with IBM

Honest Answer

[abhikhurana]

Well, no it is not noticeably faster than 2.4.22-mm2 (multimedia patch), so in case you are scared to move on to a test kernel, you can try the mm patches for 2.4 (though they themselves are test patches). Theese include Ingo's O1 scheduler which is the biggest improvement in 2.6. But hey, for the sake of the community, why not move on to 2.6. I personally run both on my laptop and both seem to work fine. I had some problems with ACPI on 2.4 but 2.6 fixes that and also hotplug really works in 2.6.

What are the "odd problems"?

[Hanno]

"Note that Linus says preemption should be turned off for now, there are odd problems."

Comments like these make me shy away from trying the kernel on my home box. Any rough idea what the odd problems are?

Re:What are the "odd problems"?

[LearnToSpell]

They don't call it 'stoned beaver' for nothing. Talk about odd problems...

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[dipipanone]

Are you saying Microsoft could have called it "Big Floppy Donkey Dick", without negative effects?

But I always assumed that Longhorn was a euphemism *for* Big Floppy Donkey Dick.

Linux will not go mainstream...

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux will not go mainstream if you have to do that kind of crap just to get a USB mouse working.

Re:Linux will not go mainstream...

[dumeinst]

You should never have to do that kind of 'crap' to get a usb mouse working if you're installing a commercial distribution. Most mainstream distros come with their own, generic kernel that has support for almost every device compiled in, or as a module. Only if you want or need to build your own specific configuration should you ever have to mess with this sort of stuff. Theoretically

Re:Linux will not go mainstream...

[javahacker]

He was talking about a pre-release test kernel (read ALPHA or maybe BETA release). You expect it to be broken part of the time. If you aren't ready to deal with that, you wait for a the final release. A distribution, as you pointed out, is a different thing.

I haven't had any trouble with my USB mouse or keyboard through the whole 2.6.0-test series. A difference in chip sets is probably to blame, and they will fix it if he works with them.

Re:Linux will not go mainstream...

[ErixTr]

Yes. Linux will not go mainstream with a test kernel! There is a stable kernel release for going mainstream.

Re:Linux will not go mainstream...

[PReDiToR]

You should never have to do that kind of 'crap' to get a usb mouse working if you're installing a commercial distribution.

You're absolutely right.
Yet at the same time you are mistaken.
This kernel is not distributed with any Commercial Distributions, its brand new, untested, unstable and not recommended in any way for your Joe Public to install on his Windows dual boot machine that he is just learning Linux on.

This is the kernel that people PLAY with. It might one day make it to a distro, but not for at least... Two years?
This is version 2.6, the latest stable kernel (and even now, Commercial Distributions aren't including this one yet) is 2.4.22.

I hope this helps clear it up a little?

Or.. IHBT, IHL, I'mHAND. Who knows?

Re:Linux will not go mainstream...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that would explain why upgrading from Mandrake 8.1 to Mandrake 9.2 means that my DEC 21041 NIC suddenly no longer works. The card doesn't even get intialised properly. No link, nothing.

Of course it works fine under a couple of other Operating Systems I have installed on the same machine, and worked fine under Mandrake 8.1 for years.

Go Linux. Woo..


That should be Go Mandrake. Woo..

That's not Linus' fault at all. The distribution I use requires me to type "/sbin/modprobe tulip" or whatever bastard incarnation of the DEC chipset you may have. Hotplug/Kmod might get confused or simply load the first module they think might work: I have seen this happen. Did you see if it was loading the right module? Was the new kernel config correct? Do you even know how to check this? If not there are literally thousands of people and places you can go for free help.

PS: I am running test10 so far with Reiser4 and haven't seen any problems.

Re:Linux will not go mainstream...

[}}mons{{]

robert edison doesnt know squat about anything...
he doesnt even know how to make nice webpages!!!

APIC

[Second_Derivative]

A new interrupt controller dreamed up by Intel to enable multiprocessing. It seems to cause a disproportionate amount of problems under Linux (a dedicated server I run would crash something like every 4 hours before I enabled noapic)

Unless you've got more than one CPU, it's more trouble than it's worth. The old 'legacy' 8259 interrupt controller (or the interface your system chipset supplies that emulates it anyway) works just fine for single-CPU applications.

Re:APIC

[Anonymous Coward]

"New"? I believe Pentium Pro machines had an APIC. It was pretty much standard by the PII era, and automatically used by Windows.

The main feature is that it removes the limit of 16 (or 15) IRQs.

I'd Love To Run It.

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

So... is the nVidia 'drivers' going to work with 2.6? What about the hcf modem 'drivers'? I can't see anything or even connect outside localhost on my test of -test9 on this machine. I'm running 2.4.20 on this box because the hcf module doesn't seem to work well with anything higher.

perhaps I need to do more testing, but, 2.6 seems to break a lot of things that are very important for my machine.

Am I alone?

uname -a
Linux aragorn 2.4.20-gentoo-r8 #9 Mon Nov 17 14:59:22 EST 2003 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[asv108]

nvidia drivers aready work with 2.6.

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[Lispy]

http://www.minion.de
They claim to have a working solution. But I wasn't man enough to get it working yet. Maybe I'll give it another shot now that I upgraded to Slack 9.1 wich claims to be 2.6 "ready".

Are there known issues?

cu,
Lispy

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[EDevil]

If you can't connect outside localhost maybe it's because some kernels (like arjanv's for fedora) are built with ECN turned on by default.
Turn it off using /proc

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[CJ Hooknose]

So... is the nVidia 'drivers' going to work with 2.6?

The evil binary-only nVidia kernel module works OK with 2.6.0-test9 when you apply the patches found at www.minion.de/nvidia.html to an official nVidia tarball and then build the nVidia module. I've been using it for the last 4 days, no problems running OpenGL-intensive stuff like mupen64.

What about the hcf modem 'drivers'?

Good question. I found the minion.de patches by Googling for "nvidia 2.6 linux", so try the same thing, substituting the name of the LoseModem module for "nvidia". There's supposed to be a beta source tarball for Lucent LoseModems for the 2.6 kernel, but it's 404ing at the moment. Quick Googling shows that Lucent will release an updated package when Redhat ships a 2.6 kernel (sigh). Guess my laptop's staying at kernel 2.4 for now.

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[Anime_Fan]

As already stated, the nvidia drivers already work with Linux. I get good enough framerates in Enemy Territory ;)

You don't even need to apply any patches yourself since you use Gentoo.

Use the following command after symlinking /usr/src/linux-2.6.0-testX to /usr/src/linux:
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86" emerge nvidia-kernel

Note that some of the test kernels wouldn't play well with the nvidia drivers (in particular TV-out). My sollution was to play with older test kernels (2.6.0-test2), patched sources (-mm or -love) or snapshots (2.6.0-test5-bk11).

I'll assume that you either tried compiling your modem drivers into the kernel directly and/or emerge'd module-init-tools.

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[caluml]

No, don't turn it off. Moan at the brain dead idiots that run OSs that don't support it. See the notice on www.kernel.org for more info.

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah well this is what happens when Linus is such a lazy fuck he can't be bothered to keep the driver ABI stable between minor fucking releases.

Drivers in Linux are complete joke. You're better off just compiling everything as a single kernel. Welcome to the 1970's!

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[ozbird]

Don't forget to also "emerge nvidia-glx" to get OpenGL accelleration. You need to re-emerge nvidia-kernel whenever you update the kernel, but this is relatively painless. (I don't use TV out, so haven't noticed any problems with the 2.6test kernels.)

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[soulsteal]

Am I alone?

uname -a
Linux aragorn 2.4.20-gentoo-r8 #9 Mon Nov 17 14:59:22 EST 2003 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

Of course not. There are many dorks in the world, muchless on Slashdot, who names their machines after Lord of the Rings characters.

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

Just to say it, I named him way before the movies came out. I first read the books when I was around 10 or 11. I turned 30 today... (yes, today really is my b-day)

That's the only LotR character I named a box after (and if you know the story, you can guess why I named him Aragorn). I also have:
Takua - PIII-800 - W2k
Tarkin - Dual MMX 233 - Gentoo
Bowie - Laptop - PIII-500 - W2k/Gentoo (dualboot)
Jalah - MMX 233 - MDK
Aragorn - PIV- 2.4GHz
http://www.rivendell-net.com Aragorn. (I'm only on a modem, be gentle...) There's nothing to see, but, I'll be watching my logs... :-)

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[captaink]

happy birthday dude :) a shame your web page is so simple

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

Thank you. :-)

I'm truly stummped. Slashdotters really do you Mozzie and *NIX:
"Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Konqueror/3.1; Linux; X11; en_US)"
"Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Konqueror/3.1; Linux; X11; en_US)"
"Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6a) Gecko/20031016 Camino/0.7+"
"Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 Firebird/0.7"

It goes on and on. The PPC one made my eyebrow rise the most though.

Hello all *NIX fans!

Re:I'd Love To Run It.

[sciencewhiz]

Have you paid linuxant for the new HCF driver? It touts 2.6 compatibility, but I haven't tried it.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[waitigetit]

You can go right ahead and call your newest product version the GNAA Goatse Tubgirl, just don't expect people to take you seriously with a name like that. Fair or not, that's what decisionmakers see first.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[gl4ss]

no, but that's just a marketing slogan at this point.

2.6.0-test10 isn't a marketing slogan, it's a real thing available now and mostly intresting to non usual phb's if any phb's at all.

however microsoft actively sends messages to phb's that basically say because "longhorn is going to be so good you better stick with us" as marketing words("Big Floppy Donkey Dick is going to be so good you better stick with us" doesn't quite have the same tech hype feel to it). longhorn is just a word for 'someday, in the future, maybe'.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is. There's a reason they used the euphemism though.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[dumeinst]

I'm canadian

NEO LETS SMITH TAKE HIM OVER, TRINITY DIES

[Anonymous Coward]

The Matrix is not destroyed.

Sorry to spoil it.

Re:NEO LETS SMITH TAKE HIM OVER, TRINITY DIES

[waitigetit]

- Machines do not know how to build tall towers for solar panels.
- Lasers only work on short range, and even then only when it doesn't endanger humans.
- Being impaled by 4 inch thick spikes allows you to continue talking about what you really wanted to do, but didn't have time for the other day, but really regret, so I'll say it now, because the other day I should have said and done this, but I said something else, and did I mentions I regret not doing that? Oh and Aaarrgh.
- Super-duper-hi-tech robotsuits come without ANY armor for the driver.
- Super-duper-hi-tech walking robotsuits have to be reloaded by clumsy teenagers with wheelbarrows.
- Super-duper-hi-tech squidlike robots forget to attack said clumsy teenagers reloading the walking robotsuits.
- Robots dig through 5 miles of bedrock, instead of going in throught a scrummy steel gate held shut by a single chain.
- No spare EMP parts are kept in ZION.
- The middle of Machine City has an operational interface into the matrix for humans, although no human is ever supposed to be there in the first place.
- 5.000.000.000 tons of steel robots hurled at your ship is not a problem, but the sight of a few sentinels, who suddenly lost their lasers, is somehow relevant and terrifying.

I could go on.

Damn, I wanted my money and time back after that movie.

Re:NEO LETS SMITH TAKE HIM OVER, TRINITY DIES

[Anonymous Coward]

The machines are coming, lets have a rave.

Re:NEO LETS SMITH TAKE HIM OVER, TRINITY DIES

[IvoryRing]

A couple of points on this:

1.) Solar panels - I read this as a subtle point of design: The machines haven't the imagination to look up and see beyond the clouds.

2.) matrix interface in Machine City - you don't think they can manufacture one quickly? Perhaps the interface itself is actually standard machine IO, and the modules embedded in people are to make the people compatible with the machine IO?

Now some more details:

- Why do machines need any towers at all? They don't have petrified grits, er, I mean, they don't have to impress any neighbors with their wealth and power. Do you really think there is any other reason to build a tower today?

- 5 miles of bedrock... and they decided to go through the front entrance instead of going around to where the soft squishy bits were?

- Multiple boring machines but they all decided to come into one spot instead of a multi-front attack?

- Humans have the tech to restart/reset their ship by pumping what looks a lot like a handbrake mounted on the ceiling... but they somehow can't figure out how to wind up a mechanical spring when they have power to spare and then just have a pushbutton restart? Especially since pumping too fast causes it to fail.

- One woman working on her own can make at least 6 rockets in a few hours. From what I can tell, there was only one other woman willing to do this.

- Their infantry consists of a hallway of maybe a dozen people. And only two teams actually make an effort. "Where's my infantry" indeed.

- After the pep-talk/APU rally - some number of the APUs seem to have gone off to take a coffee break, as there seem to be a lot fewer of them when it comes time to actually shoot the guns.

Anyway... I'm a fool cause I went to see it a second time.

Oh, and my comment is off-topic to the article, but not off-topic to the parent. Guess that makes me doubly-evil, huh?

Re:NEO LETS SMITH TAKE HIM OVER, TRINITY DIES

[Anonymous Coward]

> Solar panels - I read this as a subtle point of design: The machines haven't the imagination to look up and see beyond the clouds.

But they are aware of sunlight and any sort of Matrix-era science (including solar cells?) because it existed in the "reality" they created... :/

Re:NEO LETS SMITH TAKE HIM OVER, TRINITY DIES

[Daengbo]

Yeah, and at least fifteen slashdotters told me that my problems with the second movie would "all be answered by the third." Guess they were wrong, huh? The series reminds me a lot of Star Wars (The real one, not the second series), which was good when I was ten, but kind of sits on my shelf as a DVD now that I am older. The second and third weren't even any good when I was a teen. Enough ranting...

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[hkmwbz]

Isn't "Stoned Beaver" just the name for this specific test kernel? If so, what is the problem? The kernel is still Linux, it is not changing its name. Just because someone wants to have a bit of fun with the name of a mere test version doesn't mean that it's unprofessional.

I don't really see how this has got anything to do with Linux or professionalism, since, as I said, the kernel is still "Linux", and this is a test kernel.

But whatever. IHBT.

Re:I want CRACK-SMOKING BEAVER as its name!

[Anonymous Coward]

Scene: a crack lodge, somewhere on a Native American reservation in Nevada.

Crack-Smoking Beaver takes a hit on the pyrex peace pipe and then speaks:

Crack-Smoking Beaver: "Shit, every other reservation in the USA is coining it hand over fist from their Casinos, and we have the misfortune to have our reservation next door to the Bellagio.

Staggers on Thunderbird: "I don't know what you're complaining about. At least you've got a good gig as an Elvis impersonator. I swear, if I have to pick up another of those goddamned tiger turds, I'm going to make one of those two faggots swallow it."

Crack-Smoking Beaver: "The white man has completely stripped us of our dignity. It's time we rode down to Lindon, Utah and take us some scalps. There's a guy down there called 'Dances with Lawyers' who has beeen bringing my name into disrepute. Now its payback time..."

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hehehe... This will divide those who use Linux because of it's street credit and those who know why they're using it.

Re:hurray!

[Anonymous Coward]

It might be slightly better

..and stuff

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[dumeinst]

I happen to like the irreverent humour and careless naming conventions of the free software world. Kinda sickening to see petty corporate despotism begin now that open source has made inroads to mainstream respectability. Inevitable I suppose

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

Companies that use things because they are called professional are doomed anyways.

No matter what the name of the Linux test version might be.

Framebuffer

[bruthasj]

is still broken. Please fix it, so i can see the pretty graphical boots that are floating around now a days. [IBM T30 Laptop ATI Mobility M7 with boot options: vga=0x316 video=radeon:0x177:ypan]

Re:Framebuffer

[Anonymous Coward]

"vga=0x316 video=radeon:0x177:ypan"

SYNTAX ERROR!!!!!! ;-P

(yes, the syntax has changed since 2.4)

you should replace "radeon" with "radeonfb" ... this is a consolidation so that all now ends with "fb".

Re:Framebuffer

[srussell]

The fix is a tiny one-liner.

===== drivers/video/radeonfb.c 1.30 vs edited =====
--- 1.30/drivers/video/radeonfb.c Fri Aug 1 01:58:45 2003
+++ edited/drivers/video/radeonfb.c Tue Sep 9 13:18:36 2003
@@ -2090,7 +2090,7 @@

}
/* Update fix */
- info->fix.line_length = rinfo->pitch*64;
+ info->fix.line_length = mode->xres_virtual*(mode->bits_per_pixel/8);
&nbs p; info->fix.visual = rinfo->depth == 8 ? FB_VISUAL_PSEUDOCOLOR : FB_VISUAL_DIRECTCOLOR;

#ifdef CONFIG_BOOTX_TEXT

Note that this patch doesn't apply directly to any of the 2.6 kernels; I just make the change by hand, since it is only one line. I have no idea why Linus isn't including this patch; it has been available for months, and it isn't exactly huge. It does fix the Radeon frame buffer issues.

Also note that /. is munging the code; it insists on inserting a "&nbs p;" that shouldn't be in there. I can't seem to get rid of it. Gotta love buggy software.

Re:Framebuffer

[fishbowl]

I'm aware of the fix that was posted in response to your message, but it has not fixed the problem for me. I want more than the "pretty graphical boot".

I *must* be able to use fbset and get a high res console, or else the whole system is useless to me. I'm tired of being told that xterms are good enough (they're not), and I wish people would understand that the partial fixes that work for them don't work for all radeon cards.

It doesn't actually have to be framebuffer, mind you. I'd be satisfied if SVGATextMode could work, or an old-school vga mode that would give, say, a 160x64 console.

The radeonfb works flawlessly on 2.4. Why break it?

Oh well. I will try it again, and update my bug report.

Re:Framebuffer

[IamTheRealMike]

Also note that /. is munging the code; it insists on inserting a "&nbs p;" that shouldn't be in there. I can't seem to get rid of it. Gotta love buggy software.

That's intentional, and is part of the anti-page-widening-post code. It prevents really long lines causing the page to overflow.

Re:Framebuffer

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but why does it put a space in the middle of the nbsp, rather than allowing it to be interpreted as a space?

Sounds like a bug to me...

Re:Framebuffer

[Krach42]

Also note that /. is munging the code; it insists on inserting a "&nbs p;" that shouldn't be in there. I can't seem to get rid of it. Gotta love buggy software.

That's intentional, and is part of the anti-page-widening-post code. It prevents really long lines causing the page to overflow.

Exactly what I was going to say. I've submitted this bug at least once, but probably twice, and I keep getting hammered with, "it's not a bug, it's a feature."

You know, because since the renderer is going to reduce the entire html-character code into a single character, it should obviously be treated as a group of 4 characters by SlashCode.

You know, not that I'm bitter or anything about them ignoring something that's as easy to fix as adding an alternative in a regular expression. /(\w{N}\w*/ -> /((\w|\&\w+\;){N}\w*/

There's your half-line fix... well, to some degree... don't blame me entirely, I don't like perl. Fact of the matter is that it's a fairly simple regular expression change, and it will treat &...; as a single character, which it should.

Re:Framebuffer

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. "It's not a bug, it's a feature."

Maybe, ya know, /. will stop sucking it so much if that story a few days back was right, and someone... competent actually does rewrite it from scratch.

PS: ..<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<&lt ;

Is JFS abandoned?

[dimss]

JFS seems to be abanodoned. Recenctly I've found serious bug in JFS and submitted it to their BTS. After 10 days there's no comments, no followups...

Re:Is JFS abandoned?

[Ozric]

Why dont you ask SCO...... They think they own it.

Re:Is JFS abandoned?

[runswithd6s]

Read Kernel Traffic, the periodical summary of conversations on the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML). In article #240, you will find your answer. If in doubt, email the authors directly.

Re:hurray!

[devilkin]

Your pc will seem faster, more responsive. Newer hardware will be supported. You don't need to do magic tricks with scsi-ide conversion layers anymore if you want to burn a cd.

You can have more users on your linux. You can get rid of swap completely if you want to. ACPI will work decently.

The list goes on and on and.....

/. getting slow?

[thorgil]

Is slashdot getting slow...?
Story is up 12 hours after release on bitkeeper!?

WTF?

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[coolmos]

Wait for the next one:

Stable Beaver

and on to:

Rock-Solid Beaver

Re:Elegy for Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the laugh buddy. Ask SGI how they're getting a dead kernel to scale to 512 processors. Oh and no, FreeBSD 5.2 won't be able to do that.

Yes, you are alone

[Gothmolly]

Nobody else has a dorky hostname like 'aragorn'.

Re:Yes, you are alone

[Anonymous Coward]

Dorky hostname? Says who? Gothmolly?! Hrrrmmmpphh... :D

Re:wonder

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Register beaver-overlord.com
2. Welcome your new beaver overlord.
3. ??????????
4. Profit!

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[losttoy]

How about Shaved beaver in a black suit and black sunglasses?? ;) IBM would sure lap it up!!

I've been getting E-Mail about this for months!

[Keith_Beef]

Almost everyday, I get spam telling me I can download images of stoned beaver... I never realised it was a new kernel! .

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[10Ghz]

The operating system is not called "Stoned Beaver". It's an internal codename for this particular version of the Kernel. The OS is called Red Hat, SuSE, Debian, GNU/Linux or Linux. Depending which style you prefer.

My OS is Linux. More presicely, Gentoo Linux. I don't call it 2.6.0-test9-mm1. If I ran test10 on it, it would still be just "Linux" or "Gentoo Linux" and not "Stoned Beaver"

Seriously, at least TRY to use your brains, OK?

OT

[bstadil]

I just had it stuffed.

You should always leave a link allowing the uninitiated to learn

FYI, I saw Naked Gun on ABC here a few years ago and they had removed that comment by Jane. What is the point of showing a movie like that and then censor out the jokes?

I HAVE A GREASED UP MUFFIN UP MY ASS!

[Anonymous Coward]

It feels great, you should try it.

Re:I HAVE A GREASED UP MUFFIN UP MY ASS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that you, goatse man?

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

well no, the unstable may not work, whereas the stable version may. Any issues you struggle with in testing may be pointless by the time the stable version comes out and therefore a waste of time and resources.

You start testing at the 3rd stable release and implement that release when it's 3 releases old.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[An Onerous Coward]

RSB will be the actual 2.6.0 release. From there, incremental 2.6.x releases will be named as follows

2.6.1 - Serene Beaver
2.6.2 - Perturbed Beaver.
2.6.3 - Infuriated Beaver
2.6.4 - Flip Out and Kill Everyone Beaver
2.6.5 - Beavergeddon
2.6.6 - Beavercide
2.6.7 - Beaver of the Apocalypse
2.6.8 - Nuke the Beaver from Orbit. It's the Only Way to be Sure

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[happyfrogcow]

I agree, if you want a pretty business name, go wrap the Stoned Beaver up in a distro or just call it by it's version number. You're free to do so.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[wed128]

I think this name confirms Linus's rockstar-like role in the open source world, as it shows he is now addicted to both drugs and sex.

No, he is merely addicted to intoxicated aquatic rodents.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[happyfrogcow]

Just wait until fuzzy logic gets implemented in the scheduler or memory management.

Fuzzy Beaver!

And you wonder why...

[Anonymous Coward]

Some clueless cubical overlord says??? "Um, stoned beaver", linix??? what???

Sorry please just upgrade our MS windows enterprise enterprise up to the next MS version.

for as much as the "community" wants to be taken seriously, stuff like just makes it more difficult for everyone. AND I HAVE NOTHING against stoned beavers or any other beaver... that name is JUST STUPID and irresponsible.

aside from the fact that the mention of this to the overlords is only going to get a bunch of us drugtested as well.

Re:And you wonder why...

[Anonymous Coward]

"stuff like just makes it more difficult for everyone"

No it doesn't because enterprises only know about "Red Hat" or "Linux". The fact that a beta has an odd code-name means nothing.

Tell me again what Apple calls 10.3?

Tell me again what MS is calling Windows 2005?

You're thinking about these code names too damned nuch.

Re:And you wonder why...

[M. Baranczak]

You work for a company that requires samples of bodily fluids as proof of loyalty. Linus is not the cause of your problems.

Howto?

[Bilbo]

One of the things I've noticed with the 2.6 kernels is that they are significantly different from the 2.4 kernels in their setup. I've been downloading and building kernels since the 2.2 series, and though I've tried to build perhaps a couple dozen instances of the 2.5/2.6 kernel, I have never been able to get one up and running!!

Does anyone here have a pointer to a decent HOWTO type document on steps required to take a system currently running a 2.4 kernel (like, for instance, a RH 9 release) and migrate it to a 2.6 kernel?

I'd love to help out with testing, but after blowing upwards of 80 hours beating my head on a brick wall trying to get it to compile and boot up, I've pretty much given up.

Re:Howto?

[Eddy_D]

1) open web broswer and goto www.google.com
2) type "building 2.6.0 with redhat"
3) browse results.

Or, goto kerneltrap.org, for eg.

http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/799 - a nice article, but slightly outdated now.

The biggest gotya is the requirement for a new modutils prior to running the newer kernel. Read the article for more info.

Re:Howto?

[haakon]

I don't know the details of your hardware, but for my laptop I couldn't get 2.6 to boot unless I had the frame buffer compiled in.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? If the suits want to use OUR linux THEY should be the ones modifying THEIR behaviour. Losing the sad fucking frat-boy rings for a start, eh?. We don't give a fuck if the corpies use linux or not. They want to use linux to save money. So they can bloody well start behaving geekily.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Mind Mage]

Same professionalism that brought us MS Windows and crushed SGI and Sun no doubt.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[jd]

Ah, but what if you take several stoned beavers and roll them down a hill...

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[hplasm]

Amen to that. "Professional"=="I wear a suit- trust me." all too often.

Bah.

Name for the release

[Espectr0]

This release is tentatively called the "stoned beaver" release (beavers
are _almost_ as good as weasels, as I'm sure Scott Adams would agree).

If you feel strongly about the issue, please send your votes and
ideas to "feedback@beaver-overlord.com"

I, for, one, welcome our new beaver overlords!

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[110010001000]

Well longhorn is "a real thing available now" in alpha releases. Linus needs to grow up.

YHBT.

[Anonymous Coward]

New to the internet?

YHBT. YHL. HAND.

Re:YHBT.

[Anonymous Coward]

No no, this is a special "troll". It is a FreeBSD guy whos really upset about all the BSD is dying trolls. He isn't doing it to try to get a response, he's doing it to salvage some of his ego. Which I promptly shattered with my swift rebuttal. HHL. HHHAND.

Why is a test release a /. new event?

[mnemotronic]

Perhaps I'm missing something ... is slashdot the Linux Announcement Bulletin of Release Available for Test (LABRAT)? Ok, Linux is important, but it's just an OS, and an announcement of a interim test release is not (IMHO) that newsworthy, unless this is the Final Release that will do flawless speaker-independent voice recognition, fix the perfect cup of expresso, and do my real work so I can play SMAC or Civ III all day.

#include <sound_of_karma_points_evaporating.ogg>

Re:Why is a test release a /. new event?

[bogie]

Better than another stupid IPod or SCO article. Plus now is the time for the general public to start using and testing the pre-2.6 builds as we are close to 2.6 final. So yes this is newsworthy and important if your at all intertested in a stable 2.6 which most of us are.

Re:Why is a test release a /. new event?

[sffubs]

Well, I found it useful. And remember, you don't _have_ to read it.

Re:Why is a test release a /. new event?

[dna42]

actually it's not even an operating system, it's a kernel. refer to http://www.gnu.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.html for more information. nevermind, dna

Re:Why is a test release a /. new event?

[Anonymous Coward]

So start your own damn news site. I'm sick of people complaining every chance they get.

Re:I want CRACK-SMOKING BEAVER as its name!

[Progman3K]

Well *I* think we're funny.

Re:hurray!

[October_30th]

You don't need to do magic tricks with scsi-ide conversion layers anymore if you want to burn a cd.

So, have the requests by Jorg Schilling been finally answered?

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[red floyd]

2.6.9 - Ward, I think there's something wrong with the Beaver

$intoxicated $animal

[TeknoHog]

I'd rather have badgers on shrooms instead.

Re:$intoxicated $animal

[Wolfrider]

--Thanx for that "reminder" link - oddly enough, it's been on my mind lately. Probably due to a "Bob 'n Ed" cartoon reference a few weeks ago.

here's an "unknown" issue

[ChipMonk]

The modprobe output for kernel 2.6 is radically different... and modprobe now uses /etc/modprobe.conf rather than /etc/modules.conf. To generate the modprobe.conf file, run "generate-modprobe.conf > /etc/modprobe.conf" as root. Without that file, auto-loading of your sound card drivers will not work.

I hashed this one out with Patrick and Rusty Russell, and Rusty was the one who caught it.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[iabervon]

The name might, instead, indicate how he got enough time away from his family life to actually release test10.

Since, as you must know, he has a wife and kids. And he is sufficiently absent-minded to forget about the kids, but the wife might be more difficult. (According to a Wired? interview recently)

[Patially offtopic] So is the GIMP 1.3.23

[Pope Raymond Lama]

GIMP 1.3.23 is also out today.
It is expected to be the last release before the 2.0 pre-release cicle starts (and strings are frozen for translators to work on them)

Download mirrors are here

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[gl4ss]

yeah? give me a ftp address then to something that has a final feature set implemented, including all the bull that is almost weekly reported to be "one of the most exciting features of longhorn".

the most intresting features(that is, not just all the ui crap that can be achieved now with 3rd party tools) are still somewhat vague.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's GNU/Stoned Beaver to you.
-RMS
--
"Degeneracy can be fun, but it's hard to keep up as a serious lifetime occupation" - R.M.Pirsig

Suggestion for 2.6.0-test* naming

[weeboo0104]

Ever since the "greased weasel" series of
kernel releases I have been stuck for a good name.

This release is tentatively called the "stoned beaver" release (beavers are
_almost_ as good as weasels, as I'm sure Scott Adams would agree).

I think that the "Stoned Beaver" is almost as good of a name as "Greased Weasel". However, I would like to submit the following suggestion.

I feel that "Stoned Beaver" sends the impression that this release has problems with volatile (short-term) memory and gets the munchies for more resources.

To improve market visibility, I recommend that the next testing release be named "Shaved Beaver". I feel this name denotes something that is sleek and highly visible. The only shortcoming I could foresee for this name are emails or newsgroup postings with the subject line "Shaved Beaver ready for pounding". It may be a possible problem for SPAM filters.

I agree that it's tough to beat "Greased Weasel", but if you really are stuck coming up with a new name, I think "Greased Beaver" would be almost as good.

Re:Suggestion for 2.6.0-test* naming

[ozbird]

If the next one is called "Lubed Gerbil", I'm outta here...

Re:hurray!

[Anonymous Coward]

Could you try not to use marketingspeak like "end-user experience"? It hurts my eyes.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Tin Foil Hat]

And what's wrong with drugs and sex, anyway? I mean I could understand being against sex addiction, but drugs?

Oh wait, that came out all wrong...

Re:I want CRACK-SMOKING BEAVER as its name!

[Anonymous Coward]

there many beavers in Nevada (even the crack smoking kind)?

join the conversation

Re:I want CRACK-SMOKING BEAVER as its name!

[DrakeX]

yes, please. . .

we don't want to exhaust this thread do we?

btw, we have lots of beaver up hear in canuckland. even the biguns that'll keep you warm@night.

/dev/sequencer on emu10k1

[Dimensio]

I got the Nvidia drivers working after very little tooling around, and I'm usually clueless when it comes to high-level configuration like that.

I've had audio problems, specifically with /dev/sequencer support with my emu10k1-driven card. I finally discovered that the only way to make it work was to build the sequencer support in as a module. If I build the sequencer driver into the kernel, it doesn't work (/dev/sequencer gives me no such device any time I try to access it).

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

The name OpenBeaver would, in our opinion, emphasize the Free (as in Beaver) aspects of the kernel.

I for one

[gotem]

welcome our new stoned beaver overlord

What about CPU's with Hyperthreading?

[glrotate]

Is APIC needed?

MOD parent up...

[Anonymous Coward]

The AC comment currently knocked down to -1 flamebait should be marked up... It's the original parent that needs knocking down and should never have made it up to +5 informative at all. Had I possessed MOD points today, I'd have smacked the top level post down as Troll immediately. There seems to be an Astro-turfing pro Microsoft clique in slashdot who've managed to get moderator status from marking themselves up and getting themselves marked up.

Yes, unless...

[Ayanami Rei]

you want only one of the two threading ports to respond to hardware events. Not a good idea, it's best to spread that out... especially since a thread could starve the other on scarce shared processor resources on the PIV

Now THAT's funny.

[Ayanami Rei]

::smiling::

Re:Debian

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard they were nearly ready to integrate the sb.o driver into the kernel, but they're still arguing wether to use gcc-2.5 or egcs-1.12

Which, unless you read slashdot...

[Ayanami Rei]

means absolutely nothing more than "Longhorn" or "Cairo" or "MULTICS"!

Ask your mom is "goatse" is disgusting. I'm sure she'll think it's some German company. Tubgirl is the only think that might be questionable. (Penisbird is also right out)

How about "GNAA Goatse Nero-Online"

Sounds like a great online experience with European engineering. :-)

Re:I want CRACK-SMOKING BEAVER as its name!

[Anonymous Coward]

Staggers on Thunderbird: I swear, if I have to pick up another of those goddamned tiger turds, I'm going to make one of those two faggots swallow it.

Crack-Smoking Beaver: Its O.K, I put some acid in their water. Its only a matter of time before a tiger bites the fucking head off of one of them.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[gangien]

Wouldn't that be long lower horn then?

A Formitable Creature

[KidSock]

A stoned beaver will rip through entire forests when it gets "the munchies".

Re:A Formitable Creature

[Anonymous Coward]

No..When it's ready... it won't have too..

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[PReDiToR]

When 2.6 comes out with special girl-friedly instructioon set for Barbie PDA's - - -

Fluffy Beaver

new module stucture is great!

[msh104]

i just upgraded to 2.6-test10 and found out that insmoding the nvidia module i compiled against 2.6-test9 loads just fine! i am of course going to compile it against 2.6-test10 for maximum stability but minor kernel version driver inconsistance problems allways gave me a headache with binary only drivers. (this really inproves that)

Re:new module stucture is great!

[Anonymous Coward]

perhaps, but it's more likely that you're a lucky idiot.

Re:new module stucture is great!

[msh104]

could be, but the new kernel version created kernel module versioning just to do this but indeed, how stable and usefull this actually is can not be decided by only testing one module.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Joe Enduser]

> The operating system is not called "Stoned Beaver"

Quite right. Quote Richard Stallman:

If "the job" really were done, if there were nothing at stake except credit, perhaps it would be wiser to let the matter drop. But we are not in that position. To inspire people to do the work that needs to be done, we need to be recognized for what we have already done. Please help us, by calling the operating system GNU/Stoned Beaver.

Server Performance?

[Geekenstein]

Ok, all the talk seems to be about the performance of Linux as a desktop OS in 2.6. My question is, what did they do to server performance? Is it slower or faster? Specifically, we run a lot of tux/apache combos and MySQL DB's. Am I going to be keeping these on 2.4?

2.6-final

[Anonymous Coward]

They should call the official release of 2.6 the "SCOrned penguin" release. Hell hath no fury like a penguin SCOrned.

Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

I love Linux too, but there's no way in hell I'm letting a 'stoned beaver' run my computer!

Adaptec I20 Raid Card

[Bloodbane]

I have tried to use this test kernel and a few previous test versions and have not been able to get my Adaptec 2100s raid card to work. Any suggestions? I heard nobody ported the driver to 2.6 yet.

Re:Adaptec I20 Raid Card

[LokiSteve]

Yes, you are an assclown.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

But if you are runnning deb with 2.6 you should call it "Woody & Stoned Beaved".
Note: mixing the two may fuck up your system.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Goalie_Ca]

But if you mix Deb with 2.6 you should call it "Woody & Stoned Beaver". You shouldn't mix the two because your system will be fscked!

Changelog

[permanentE]

Here's a good overview of the new features in 2.6.

Why yes!

[atrader42]

This is the quick and dirty method, but it'll get you upgraded and running. Please note that if you have lots of special needs, it might not work as well.

• Start by reading this article: http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/799 but don't follow those steps quite yet. You may not need to at all, depending on your setup and needs.
  
• Now go to http://people.redhat.com/arjanv/2.5/RPMS.kernel/ and download all necessary files as outlined in the previous document. Before you install the kernel RPM, make damn sure that you aren't missing anything or things break very fast. You should also take steps to backup as outlined in the first document. Now install the RPM and make any necessary bootloader changes/bootdisks. That may do it for you.
  
• If you have to make some changes (ie I needed ntfs), download the kernel source (I had trouble with the rpm on that site, ymmv) and do a make oldconfig followed by a make (x or g)config to get the small changes you need. Good luck!

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're absolutely right. The developers aren't running a business, they are making a kernel. If someone chooses to pay them to work on it, then they should fully realize that it is not company that they are working with. Just because professionals want to use their product, doesn't mean the the developers have to be "professional".

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Anonymous Coward]

As pointed out a little earlier, Linus doesn't have to do shit, except what he has been doing. He is not the CEO of Linux corp.

Microsoft has to be professional because they are a business. Linus has the luxury of not having to be. If you want "grown up", then buy Windows, a Unix, whatever someone will sell you. If you want to use the Linux kernel for free, use it and quit yer bitchin'.

THANKS To All

[Bilbo]

The Google search didn't find me much, but the Kerneltrap article has gobs of useful information, as does the people.redhat.com reference. Sounds like the big difference is the fact that you have to upgrade a bunch of tools, like the modutils, in order to get it to work. I don't want to try this on my main development system yet (i.e., the box I need to use every day to do the work I actually get paid for), but I should be able to set aside a test RH9 box to try it on.

Thanks again!

(Just have to make sure I make good backups of any of my critical data before moving forward... ;-)

Re:THANKS To All

[atrader42]

Let me know how it works. It took me a while and a lot of weird problems to get it to work at all, so I'm curious if it really was that simple after all.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[waitigetit]

Sure, and we've yet to release for Windows XP, because we cannot possibly test it before the third service pack.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[Cajun Hell]

And what's wrong with drugs and sex, anyway?

Because without rock and roll, sex and drugs are empty and useless. I'll have a little more faith in Linus when he gives a release a name like King Crimson or Led Zeppelin.

Don't ever leave out rock and roll.

Re:Stoned Beaver?

[110010001000]

Linus represents a corporation (a business). He should be professional.