MandrakeMove Bootable Linux CD Announced

joestar writes "MandrakeSoft just announced the release of the MandrakeMove release candidate, a special desktop version of the Mandrake Linux distribution that boots live from the CD and uses a USB key (included in the retail version) to automatically store personal data. It looks a bit like Knoppix, but comes with more features, such as the capability to eject the MandrakeMove CD-ROM during its use, in order to read audio or video files from another CD! The download release candidate is available here."

Comments

Good idea using a USB Key....

[Anonymous Coward]

Since it may permanently disable the CDROM drive. ;)

Re:Good idea using a USB Key....

[grolschie]

That is funny, but also a very valid point also. Will my LG CD writer survive it? Or will it be smoked on first boot? Co-incidentally, I never found anything such as news, warning or firmware updates regarding their CD writers and Mandrake.

Re:Good idea using a USB Key....

[joestar]

Not anymore since LG fixed their buggy and so-called ATAPI drives.

Re:Good idea using a USB Key....

[The Analog Kid]

CD-Rs/CD-RWs were not affected by the FLUSH_CACHE bug, only the CD-Roms were. I think it even says so on the LG site.

Re:Good idea using a USB Key....

[Dave_bsr]

Go To: us.lgservice.com and go to Product support, then Device driver, CD-ROM and "Emergency download for Physical Dead Drive from Mandrake Linux 9.2". So you're drive isn't really dead.

Also, by going to LG's site, you can get firmware updates to fix the problem.

And finally...I'm sure Mandrake fixed this problem in newer kernels, as did the Gentoo team for their kernel.

Re:Good idea using a USB Key....

[Anonymous Coward]

I sure hope LG posts a patch for the FLUSH_SENSE_OF_HUMOR bug that seems to occur in many Slashdotters. :)

Re:Good idea using a USB Key....

[Bombcar]

Heh. That page sounds like a bad email virus... read it!

Improvement Point:
Enhanced installation problem with Mandrake Linux
Refer to the attached file

Whohoo! Now my installation problem is enhanced!

Re:Good idea using a USB Key....

[mickwd]

It's not the best-designed web page, but it's mentioned on Mandrake's home page - it's in the news section towards the right (but has been pushed down a little due to more recent news).

It's also on Mandrake's errata page, this time a little more prominently.

Re:Good idea using a USB Key....

[Anonymous Coward]

What?!! And permanently disable my USB thumb drive?

Re:Good idea using a USB Key....

[Joe Tie.]

Unless by that you mean they sent out written notifications to everyone owning one of their drives, I don't consider it fixed.This would only make someone I gave one of these things to slightly less pissed off at me when their drive died, instead of compleatly pissed off. Which I'm sure would quickly change to totally again when I tried to blame them for not making regular updates to their hardware.

Don't get me wrong, for the most part I like the direction Mandrake takes. But there's not a chance I'd ever recomend anything, whether it's windows, beos, or a paint program if it could wind up with me being blamed for messing up someones hardware.

Hrmm

[acehole]

Also sounds like the 'Slackware Live' cd.

Can you create your own in mandrake like you can with slackware?

Re:Hrmm

[gnu-generation-one]

"Also sounds like the 'Slackware Live' cd.
Can you create your own in mandrake like you can with slackware?"

That statement gives me a picture of going to buy a television, only to be offered an electronics book and a soldering iron...

We Mandrake users buy our software in boxes. And it works first time.

Re:Hrmm

[Anonymous Coward]

We Mandrake users buy our software in boxes. And it works first time.

Are you trolling, or have you already forgot the "let's apply an experimental kernel patch and kill all the LG cdrom drives" incident? I didn't see any other distributions with that problem.

Re:Hrmm

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be trolling
One CD-ROM drive and a non compliant one at that......

Re:Hrmm

[gnu-generation-one]

"Are you trolling, or have you already forgot the "let's apply an experimental kernel patch and kill all the LG cdrom drives" incident? I didn't see any other distributions with that problem."

Am I trolling, or did you just post anonymously?

My view of Mandrake was only enhanced by the LG incident -- previously I didn't realise just how much hardware testing they did, that even a CD unit that I'd never heard of, Mandrake had tested for compatibility with their operating-system. Granted, a different version of the CD firmware caused a problem, but to be honest, I'm more worried about somebody writing a Windows worm to send that "cough up your skull" code to the CD drive.

Re:Hrmm

[Anonymous Coward]

www.pclinuxonline.com has had a lot of discussion about the mklivecd project (dunno the url for the project). It's apparently for making your own installable Mandrake livecd.

It's currently being worked on, I think it is to a usable point, but I don't know how friendly the setup is at this stage.

Hez

Re:Hrmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I trolling, or did you just post anonymously?

I often post anonymously when dealing with morons.

No doubt you've focused on this to avoid having to respond to my point, which was that it's almost funny to hear you claim that Mandrake "works the first time" when they just had to pull an entire release because of a patch they added to the kernel (that nobody else added). I don't see how this incident causes your view of Mandrake to be "enhanced", but whatever. It certainly does show that Mandrake doesn't always work the first time though. You might wish to quit making that claim if you don't like people bringing up the LG issue.

Re:Hrmm

[gnu-generation-one]

I often post anonymously when dealing with morons.

Thankyou. I'm almost tempted to leave it there, as proof that there's no technical counter-argument left in you.

it's almost funny to hear you claim that Mandrake "works the first time" when they just had to pull an entire release because of a patch they added to the kernel

Why? It did work first time. I installed it and it worked, which is a *lot* more than you can say for slackware. (or Windows, for that matter, which took a few reboots to get any drivers working)

So I don't own a broken CD-ROM drive. What's your point? If you solder the power-supply pins together on your computer, Mandrake won't work on that either. There's a line between having a good, tested operating system, and having one which magically fixes your hardware. Would you like it to paint the case blue as well?

Re:Hrmm

[Joe Tie.]

when they just had to pull an entire release because of a patch they added to the kernel

I don't think they pulled the release. I don't use Mandrake, but I remember people complaining about them shipping the isos with the cd killing code in it, long after the problem had been identified and a fix written.

USB Key

[stanmann]

I must assume that USB Key means thumbdrive, although I couldn't find any reference on the linked site indicating what size this might be..

Re:USB Key

[Anonymous Coward]

And I assume by "thumbdrive" you mean USB flash drive.

Or if you believe some people, "Memory Stick". *sigh*

How is it a key anyway? I never got that.
One name please!

Re:USB Key

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of them fit nicely on a key ring.

Re:USB Key

[Anonymous Coward]

and are about the size of your thumb...

Re:USB Key

[Anonymous Coward]

AND? CDs are the size of plates. Read the other points. We do need one name for whatever you want to call it.

Re:USB Key

[LinuxTek]

If you go to the order site, and preorder MandrakeMove, you can see that it's a 128MB Key.

That, and the $59.99 price makes it very wortwhile.

Re:USB Key

[Anonymous Coward]

Where I'm from, "CDs" are often called "plates"

nice...

[mantera]

Keep shaking your booty, mandrakesoft... i heard rumors that you'll soon be acquired by a significant, streetwise player...

Re:nice...

[bfg9000]

STOP shaking your booty, Mandrake! I heard it's SCO!!!

Re:nice...

[damiam]

SCO wouldn't bother buying Mandrake, because they probably think they already own it.

Re:nice...

[gstaines]

I do hope that was just a joke. Nothing could be worse.

Besides, Mandrake is a french outfit, SCO's tatics dont seem to rub off on the euro legal system as it does in the US.

Cheers

G

Great for schools

[PPGMD]

The biggest problem schools seem to have would be kids messing with the system. Using MandrakeMove (or the first major one Knoppix), from a read only source (such as a compact flash card), and require the kids to have a USB Key (or another compact flash card).

Might be the future of school PCs, or at least computers that are open to the public without a login.

Re:Great for schools

[Anonymous Coward]

that's a good idea... to make them really resistant to vandalism or misconfiguration, you could simply remove the hard drive entirely and run them off the bootable cdrom. When it's time to upgrade, burn the new cd and you're set.

spend the money on saved hard drives on more ram

Re:Great for schools

[ender81b]

Yeah for linux desktops this would be a great idea since, currently, there really is no solution equivalent to deep freeze for windows/mac os X. Brielfy, deep freeze is a godsend that basically creates a static image that you can do whatever the hell you want to and all changes are gone at reboot. It's absoultely fantastic if you are administering a lab or lots of public computers as it allows you to not have to lock up a computer at all and still not worry about anybody messing the sytem up. Saves so many headaches and students love it since they get a full computer they can install/change however they want while I don't have to worry about crappy security programs or kiosk modes.

This cd would give the same sort of functionality to Linux based labs that has been missing. Of course, personally, I would like to see some sort of open source deep freeze program but.. what the heck. Close enough ;).

Re:Great for schools

[Xzzy]

> or at least computers that are open to the public without a login.

Not likely. As soon as said machine accepts user input (via the thumb drive or whatever the future equivalent will be) it will be in risk of being compromised.

Obviously it won't mean much for the machine itself since it's source media is read only, but if it's internet connected at all, said hacker has an instant platform for all manners of villanry.

A cool idea yes, but not without some hurdles to get past. ;)

Re:Great for schools

[grolschie]

...or you could have no harddrive, and boot Linux from the network via a remote desktop. Means that they can do what they will, and nothing to mess up. This works fine also. I run Windows 2000 and Photoshop via Citrix on the said Linux system no problems. My pc at work is a P166 with a tiny 32MB RAM. Everything is done on the server. Just can't do animations or play games. It's fine for academic/office work though.

Re:Great for schools

[Kethinov]

Great for schools? Maybe. But you know what's better for schools? Centurion Guard. You can format the hard drive, install another OS, then when you hit the reset button everything is magically restored. Sure it's not the open source solution to all our problems we'd like to see, but it works. My college runs Windows on all the lab machines and we've never had a virus survive more than a few hours. Why? All you have to do when you get one is hit the reset button. ;)

It makes my job as the lab supervisor a lot easier. If someone fubars a machine, hit the reset button and everything works.

Re:Great for schools

[Anonymous Coward]

Even better, try out OSEF.org which offers an education based Knoppix disk. Fun stuff!

Re:Great for schools

[wowbagger]

I can think of a couple of ways to recreate that functionality under Linux:

lndir + tmpfs - Mount system read only, on login lndir the user's home dir to a directory in tmpfs.

LVM snapshots - create an LVM snapshot of the system in a running state - restore on restart.

Mount system RO, mount /home on a tmpfs volume.

Re:Great for schools

[ender81b]

Yeah really deep freeze is best in a homogenous computer enviroment where you don't need to install a lot of software often. Baring that, it is quite easy if you have it on a domain and use windows sms or other type to install stuff remotely at like 4am (you can set deep freeze to reboot unfrozen during the middle of the nite, for instance, to do windows updates). Otherwise, yeah it's a big pain in the ass.

Re:Great for schools

[Frymaster]

...or you could have no harddrive, and boot Linux from the network via a remote desktop.

this sound just like the whole sunray thin client thing.

Re:Great for schools

[ender81b]

LVM snapshot would be the best way. THe other two wouldn't allow complete functionality for the enduser (install or change the system however they wanted since it's RO partially).

Re:Great for schools

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you want the end user to change the system however they want? unless you're teaching a system administration class, this is a really really bad idea.

Re:Great for schools

[swordboy]

Great for schools

I think that schools would just use a network bootable image, since they have a network already. Where is the network bootable Linux, anyway?

In any event, a bootable CD is good for security purposes. Add some marketing spin... like, call it "SBL" for "Secure Bootable Linux". Banks and institutions that are worried about keystroke loggers and other spyware could require this for VPN'ing or other stuff. Where I work now, we use Lotus Notes for email and other stuff but we don't allow installations on home PCs for obvious reasons. If we could send a bootable CD to the employees, this would be a no-brainer...

Re:Great for schools

[iantri]

I'm sorry, I don't quite follow..

Kids in schools are going to be logging into the machines, so they are going to have their own user accounts.

Under Linux (and all real OSes, as opposed to Windows where, until recently -- and still, because some software refuses to run as a mere mortal user --, any user could go and format the hard drive) it is thoroughly IMPOSSIBLE to screw up the computer unless you are root or the sysadmin has misconfigured something.

A user will never need to -- and won't be able to -- write outside of their home directory.

So what's the problem?

Re:Great for schools

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, so you think. You better have that machine completely locked down. I WILL hack it. Hell, hacking Linux is a lot more fun than hacking Windows. If you give me shell access, I WILL get root and I will fuck your network up.

I will also fuck up all the firmware in your machines. Sleep tight.

-Student

Re:Great for schools

[b17bmbr]

dude, you're joking right? deep freeze is a total piece of shit, and i say this trying hard not to offend feces. we use it at my school, and it crashes the computers so often and so bad we had to put rubber padding on the floor. as for linux, it is realtively easy to lock a linux box down from a user. and oas for os x, simply create a user called student (or if you authenticaate using ldap, etc.) and yo can lock them out of EVERYTHING. take away every single app. period. so, deep freeze for os x is a total waste of money.

Re:Great for schools

[Ice_Balrog]

Because Linux properly implemented file permissions, there is no need for any "deep freeze" like shit^H^H^H^H software.

Since the public user doesn't have permissions to write anything other then his home directory, to clear everything he/she can do, just go into a console, and enter:

su
<enter root password>
cd /home/<public user name>
rm -rf *
exit

And your system is back to what was at the beginning of the day!

Re:Great for schools

[ender81b]

First off I've never ever ever ever seen deep freeze crash a system. We use it on well over 270 public computers (different manufactures + OS') and i've *never* seen deep freeze crash. Something was wrong with your setup is all I can guess.

Also, I don't want to lock up a computer. I want to give the end users as much ability to change/install/customize the computer as possible. I want students to be able to install whatever they want, etc, etc. Deep freeze allows that and allows me to not have to worry about locking stuff down.

Re:Great for schools

[ender81b]

Once again you miss the point.. as do most people. I don't want kiosk mode. I don't want limited file permission. I want the user to have root privleges basically. These systems are bought with student money (student technology fees) and they should be able to use them for whatever their little hearts desire.

I don't want to lock the systems down in any way shape or form (well about the only thing they can't do is shut off antivirus). I want to let the students do whatever the hell they feel like to the sytem. Rm -rf / for all I care. Or install any program they want. That's where deep freeze comes in handy. You can deltree *.* and reboot the system and everything is back to where it was.

Re:Great for schools

[N1KO]

What about a course teaching system administration for unix systems? You would probably want the students to have root access and at the same time stop them from making permanent changes to the system.

Re:Great for schools

[nolife]

no more downloaded porn,
How does Linux prevent d/l of porn?

I converted my kids primary machines to the Knoppix HD-install (no boot cd required and now basically Debian). I have not had a problem with the machines since and it has everything they NEED except games (Abiword, Mozilla, and Gaim). I use Samba and IMAP in the house so they still have access to all of my shared files and media and thier own "My Documents" directory and thier email just as they do from any of my Windows machines. The only thing I have not worked on yet was a roaming profile concept so they can have the same look, feel, and applications across different Linux machines when they login. They have this ability now with my Win machines with a profiles share and an apps share and I have a common \home on the Samba machine that can be mounted as \home on their machines but have not taken that step yet.

Re:Great for schools

[anti-tech]

Where is the network bootable Linux, anyway? Perhaps you are looking for www.ltsp.org, or a prebuilt version (for schools, based on RH9) www.k12ltsp.org

Re:Great for schools

[nolife]

I'm interested what grades/classes you teach and how well the kids were able to "adjust" to using linux though... I'm assuming minimal to zero learning curve, or were there some bumps?

Sorry, the only kids I was refering to was my offspring. Only two kids involved as far as I know! Actually they had no problem at all using it. It took them some time to get used to find things like changing the background and themes but that was it.

The Hawaii Open source Education Foundation (HOSEF) has had quite a few successful projects with OS and Linux in schools. The foundation was a LUG but has grown into a decent grouping of volunteers using OS with existing/donated equipment in schools. Worth checking out.

Re:Great for schools

[michrech]

Under Linux (and all real OSes, as opposed to Windows where, until recently -- and still, because some software refuses to run as a mere mortal user --, any user could go and format the hard drive) it is thoroughly IMPOSSIBLE to screw up the computer unless you are root or the sysadmin has misconfigured something.

Hate to burst your bubble, but as far back as Windows '98 (and most likely, even '95), you are not able to simply 'format the hard drive'. Windows prevents you from doing so to the boot drive. That's not to say that you can't format other partitions/drives in the machine, but not the boot drive.

Before you start bashing products, make sure you know of what you speak.

Re:Great for schools

[phillk6751]

Actually a really good choice for schools is LTSP. My senior project currently is on creating an LTSP lab...and one very good thing about it(besides the standard securities of linux and redhat) is that you can have one central server( in our case a 2.6 p4 w/hyper threading, and 1.5 gigs of ram)and run many crappy computers(more than 20, with good results) that don't even need to be fast....this idea can save the school districts TONS of money and possibly time also.

Re:Great for schools

[Anonymous Coward]

User Mode Linux.

Re:Great for schools

[Anonymous Coward]

instead of 'format the harddisk' read 'fuck up the system to a state that a format is the best way forwards'

Re:Great for schools

[pantherace]

I have a similar setup (using a rh7.3 server, it works I see no reason to mess with it yet. And gentoo clients (Previously Redhat 7.3, 8, and Mandrake 8.2? clients as well.)

Exported via nfs (I know about the potential security risks, etc.) the /home Each computer when running linux, uses pam_ldap to authenticate users to an ldap server (slapd) (I plan to implement kerberos over the break: 2 reasons, nfs can use it to authenticate and more services have builtin kerberos support)

On the windows side, Samba PDC with a homes section (roaming profiles on windows) & logins synced with linux.

I have written up most of the script to recreate it, and manage it, at sloppyadm.sourceforge.net if you are interested.

Re:Great for schools

[DF5JT]

"I don't want kiosk mode. I don't want limited file permission. I want the user to have root privleges basically. [...] I don't want to lock the systems down in any way shape or form (well about the only thing they can't do is shut off antivirus)."

You *do* realize that you come off as an idiot, don't you?

Giving users root permission and worry about antivirus is, ahem, not even close to a competence simulation.

Re:Great for schools

[ender81b]

... see with deep freeze it doesn't matter. I don't have to lock the systems down and I won't lock the systems down. The computers are bought with student money. Ergo, the students decide how they should be able to use them, and they want the most functionality possible. So they get full rights, well power user in win2k/xp, except to shut down antivirus (so they can't throw a virus on the machine or other nasty program).

The problem is people are so used to locking everything away from the user (because of problems that the user causes) that they cannot fathom just giving all rights to a user since it doesn't matter with DF -- you can just reboot the machine.

Re:Great for schools

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck up the firmware? Why? Are you sexually frustrated or something? Please go do something actually useful with your talents if you do indeed have any.

I will place child pornography on your personal machine. I will mix in pictures of actual students along with this. Someone will find it. The forged e-mails won't help. Its been done before, I've seen it happen. And it works. You'll be forced to resign, just like the other poor bastard this has been done to.

I am desctructive. I am the same kid who glues up other kids locks on their lockers. I throw nails all over the teachers parking lots. Only I've grown up and moved on to smarter, more devious plots. I will fuck things up for you in more ways than you can believe. Be afraid, be very afraid.

-Student

Re:Great for schools

[iantri]

Start.. Shut Down.. Restart in MS-DOS Mode.. format C:

Voila.

Re:Great for schools

[michrech]

How..
Many..
Students..
Do you think know that.

Viola.

Plus, there is always POLEDIT.

Run Poledit.
Open Registry.
Disable Shutdown to DOS mode option.
No more ability to format C from DOS mode.

Voila.

Wanna try again?

Thank you. Thank you. I'll be here all week.

Re:Great for schools

[nolife]

I have a common /home on my Samba box also that is NFS exported to another Linux machine that I use for Squid and various other small things. I have not mounted it from the Linux workstations though. Since those same home directories are smb shares I do not know the risks of sharing them out to both, although for home use I guess it does not matter. My next step is ldap or nis but for now, I've been creating the accounts manually and specifing the UID/GID myself, with only 4 of 5 users, its not hard to do. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
My two Linux servers are 7.3 also, it works and I leave it that way

Since when is Mandrake *not* for the desktop?

[smcavoy]

Did I miss something? I thought Mandrakes focus was new users/desktop users.
Mandrake always scared me with their willingness to put beta quality software in their releases, cause it was the "latest and greatest".

Not knock them (entirely), i just wouldn't put it on a server that I need to work all the time

Re:Since when is Mandrake *not* for the desktop?

[HornyBastard]

Did I miss something? I thought Mandrakes focus was new users/desktop users.

This actually looks the ideal solution for people wanting to mess around with linux without messing up their hard-drive.
With the USB drive, you can do quite a bit on it, and get a proper feeling for the OS.

Re:Since when is Mandrake *not* for the desktop?

[smcavoy]

something that couldn't be done with Knoppix!?

Re:Since when is Mandrake *not* for the desktop?

[Afrosheen]

Yeah, because no matter how you look at it, the usb drive is a practical idea. With knoppix you don't have it modifying partitions and data on the hard drive and therefore can only go so far. With this usb drive setup you can actually save things and create a decent environment without ever touching the hd.

It's pretty clever, and I guess this is what they were hinting at a few months ago.

Re:Since when is Mandrake *not* for the desktop?

[damiam]

Knoppix has supported a USB homedir for quite a while, Mandrake's may be more integrated, but it's not a new concept.

Re:Since when is Mandrake *not* for the desktop?

[smcavoy]

Actually, knoppix fully supports USB drives for home dirs.
Not sure if it's included with the base knoppix yet, but there was a version if knoppix that will AES encrypt the home dir stored on the usb drive.

That "removable cd feature"...

[geesus]

Is already in knoppix, check out the "cheat-codes" file, its a boot param which obviously isnt enabled by default so knoppix can run on systems with low memory

Re:That "removable cd feature"...

[mr.mack]

just in case you don't believe the guy... http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/CheatCodes so is this a default boot parameter with the mandrake offering?

Re:That "removable cd feature"...

[Jagasian]

I have always wondered why Knoppix doesn't get more coverage on Slashdot. It is probably one of the best ways to start playing around with Linux your first time.

Re:That "removable cd feature"...

[DeltaSigma]

Knoppix's boot option sounds different from what was described up in the blurb. With Knoppix you use the CD to boot, everything is copied to RAM, and then you don't need to put the CD back in at all. The description up-top sounds a little more sophisticated.

Of course, the poster could have just got it wrong.

Re:That "removable cd feature"...

[Anonymous Coward]

And any application worth the 2 Gb stuff is launchable then from memory?

Impressive.

Re:That "removable cd feature"...

[Jaffa]

Gah, there goes one of the USP (Unique Selling Points) of Salvare - still, it's useful (to me at least) to have a small rescue/workstation CD supporting apt-get, removal of CD and a Debian installer.

Note to self: check in to CVS the Debian installer script

USB hard drives?

[NiceGeek]

I wonder if usb hard drive (I have an Archos Jukebox Studio 10) work as well as a usb key?

Re:USB hard drives?

[Anonymous Coward]

Basically I'd say anything that doesnt require drivers (and even some stuff that does), should work like snap.
I loaded knoppix the other day and spent a good 5 minutes trying to figure out if and how it is possible to mount my usb memory stick (the manual promises it works on w2k/xp, but w98 needs drivers).
While I was trying to figure out if I could somehow mount it, I didnt notice nice knoppix had already put an icon for me on the desktop. Doh!

Re:USB hard drives?

[Anonymous Coward]

I had the same experience with my digital camera.

After the RedHat CEO guy said RedHat's not ready for the desktop because people couldn't just plug in their digital camera with Linux, I figured I wanted to see just how hard it was to do this.

Put in Knoppix, plugged in my digital camera, and started searching the internet for what problems I should expect to have. By the time mozilla loaded, Knoppix put the icon for my digital camera's files on my desktop.

I was very impressed.

Re:USB hard drives?

[keirnoff]

I don't know if they owrk, but the benefit of using a keydrive is not moving parts. Hard drives are more likely to break from travel abuse than and solid state device.

Re:USB hard drives?

[Dr. Smeegee]

True. I have a 64mb JumpDrive that has survived repteated washings (and dryings!) to no ill effect. The hardest thing I've ever had to do with it is type "mount /dev/sda1 /mountpoint" to get it working. Mandrake sees it immediately.

Same with my new Nokia 3300 phone. It seems that usb storage is usb storage is usb storage. A definite Good Thing. (Now if I could just find the name of the standard so I stop sounding like a dork....)

Re:USB hard drives?

[DickBreath]

On SuSE 7.2 and 8.1 I use an Archos Studio 10 without doing anything special. (Other than a modprobe usbstorage on the 7.2.)

No kernel patches, drivers, etc.

So is there a reason that it would NOT work?

Re:USB hard drives?

[freakmn]

According to http://bjorn.haxx.se/isd200/

The Archos Studio 10 uses a usb bridge to a hard drive, which requires a kernel level driver. This is included in the kernel config for recent kernels. As I understand it, it patches the usbstorage module to have the driver for the bridge. So it should work, assuming Mandrake included that option in their kernel. Other than that, it works like a (thumb drive, pen drive, USB Key).

Re:USB hard drives?

[PhB95]

On my laptop, I use an Archos MiniHD USB2 external hardrive. Mandrake 9.1 (and now 9.2) configure it and it's just a matter of mount to use it. Knoppix, which I tried also, readily puts an icon on the desktop. If I remove it and plug a USB key at the same place, the latter works identically. I feel USB in Linux is now as easy as in Windows.

Re:USB hard drives?

[discogravy]

if could get debian stable to do that, i'd be a happy guy indeed.

price

[bach_m]

i think it'd be useful to know the price (obviously for the USB key) and size of the key. and perhapse a tentative release. sure, its RC1, but the final could be in a while

Re:price

[Black Perl]

think it'd be useful to know the price (obviously for the USB key) and size of the key. and perhapse a tentative release. sure, its RC1, but the final could be in a while

Why not just follow links to the Mandrake Store? The price is $59.90 and it includes a 128MB USB 2.0 key.

Re:price

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard final is scheduled for christmas.

Re:price

[pjrc]

Why not just follow links

My god man, what were you thinking ?!?!

This is slashdot, you know... What business does anyone have actually following links? Next thing you know, someone like you might actually read the linked text/article. How insightful would that be?

Re:price

[Dead_Smiley]

It doesn't matter:

from the site: Note: The Beta version does not support USB key features.

Great!!

[c_oflynn]

Live CD's are great IMHO.

Perfect for showing people Linux, or recovering another system (especially a Windows system, because it introduces them to Linux ;-)

The whole USB idea is pretty good as well, good way to do stuff w/o touching the hard drive at all.

Re:Great!!

[grolschie]

Now all the Microsoft people need is a bootable Windows XP Live CD. Only that would breach the EULA. D'oh!

Re:Great!!

[Alan]

Actually I use them more for recovery CDs. I had a raid array blow a drive over the weekend and used a knoppix livecd to do some of the recovery. A CD with a full shell and tools (ie: not busybox that is on most install CDs (ie: mandrake 9.2 disk 1)) is a godsend when your /var is pooched :)

Sadly knoppix 3.3 doesn't support my PCI IDE card, mandrake's install CD (which I also brought) supports it but doesn't have decent tools that let it be used to do system recovery, and I didnt' get a chance to download the latest gentoo liveCD when I had to go to my colo and deal with things.

This livecd will go in my box of recovery disks, hopefully it'll have all the tools needed for this sort of task!

Other specific uses of livecds are for forensic analysis, an IDS on a CD, etc.

Re:Great!!

[maximilln]

Oh yeah. I'm completely in favor of live CDs. I never understood why the world moved away from bootable portable media. Hard drives revolutionalized the way operating systems were stored on local machines but hard drives are a fixed media for all practical purposes. When I began pursuing my interest in Linux in earnest I was amazed that there really was no easily accessible portable bootable media. A large part of that was due to my novice nature--I knew nothing of what it actually took to put together a boot disc. Regardless, having a bootable CD that can't be infected by a virus is awesome.

Even Win95 was bootable from the distributed CD. But Win95 sucked and Win98 began requiring an installation.

Re:Great!!

[Afrosheen]

"an IDS on a CD, etc."

I believe FLAK is one of these ids-on-a-cd distros. I tried to give it a shot once but it kept hosing itself. Kinda pissed me off. Things might have changed since that release though.

Re:Great!!

[AirRock]

I think a major advantage the Mandrake livdCD has is the ability for the usb storage. You could put whatever tools you need on it, and modify it to your hearts desire.

You can remove the Knoppix CD

[cesman]

At the splashscreen:knoppix toram

DVD...

[SignificantBit]

4+Gb of opensource/free software on a single disc... why don't do a Linux DVD Live distro? ..just wondering.

Re:DVD...

[The One KEA]

I think some distros like Gentoo make DVD ISO images available, but you're right about a Live DVD distro. A Linux magazine in the U.K. called Linux Format has a version with a DVD taped to the cover, and the 46th issue had Gentoo Linux 1.4 on it.

All you can do is ask -- if enough people show interest I'm sure they'll consider it.

Re:DVD...

[aws4y]

4+Gb of opensource/free software on a single disc... why don't do a Linux DVD Live distro? ..just wondering.
Knoppix has already done it.

As for live CD's, I think that they are a tribute to the flexibility of opensource software in that they show how OSS can do someting that proproietary software vendors would not dare do, given there hightly restrictive licences.

Re:DVD...

[evilviper]

why don't do a Linux DVD Live distro?

Because, at that point, you're better off buying a freaking hard drive!

Re:DVD...

[flafish]

Some of us just got their copies on this side of the pond. :-(

Re:DVD...

[Anonymous Coward]

1) More people have CD readers that DVD readers.

2) WAY more people have CD writers than DVD writers.

3) With a compressed loopback filesystem you can already fit over 1GB of data on a CD. For a rescue and/or just trying it out desktop system you don't need much more than that.

Re:DVD...

[gnu-generation-one]

"why don't do a Linux DVD Live distro? ..just wondering."

Chug...

Chug...

Status bar on Openoffice splash screen illuminates another pixel...

Windows user: "is Linux always this slow?"

Re:DVD...

[Anonymous Coward]

Has anyone done it where I (not being in Germany) could get one? That page says something about "exclusive".

Re:DVD...

[Anonymous Coward]

Who doesn't have a DVD Writer?!?! they're only like ~$100......

Re:DVD...

[Anonymous Coward]

Who doesn't have a DVD Writer?!?! they're only like ~$100

that's $100 for something I wouldn't need. Hell, my DVD-ROM drive is a waste of money (bought years ago, when it cost $250), I hardly use it.

Re:DVD...

[ploppy]

Cloop (compressed loopback filesystem) used in many liveCDs is quite inefficient in the way it constantly re-reads the CD. It doesn't cache very much information and throws a lot of the data it does read and decompress away before it reaches the filesystem. This is because cloop does not understand the filesystem it is compressing, and therefore cannot use any clever caching strategies.

LiveCDs using squashfs as the compressed filesystem are much faster. Try dynebolic.org... As the writer of squashfs I am however a bit biased :-)

Re:DVD...

[/dev/trash]

Knoppix already comes in a DVD flavour.

Re:DVD...

[Tin Foil Hat]

This is Mandrake's first foray into live CDs. It makes sense for them to start with ordinary CD-ROM format first because most computers (in current use) still do not have DVD drives. Probably they will eventually release a DVD version if this product is received well.

Re:DVD...

[pantherace]

Where are the Gentoo DVD ISO images? (not that I don't believe you, just haven't seen them, and I assume it's GRP?)

Silly name - MandrakeMove

[twoslice]

MandrakeMove Bootable Linux CD Announced

A Mandrake is a plant - and plants don't normally move. But I guess it is a "live" CD...

Re:Silly name - MandrakeMove

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps Mandrake itself isn't the best name.

It was said that the mandrake root gave such hideous screams when pulled from the ground that death or madness resulted for any who heard.

Certainly death to CD-ROM drives not so long ago.

Re:Silly name - MandrakeMove

[Stinking Pig]

except that Harry Potter is not what Mandrake is named for, though the insiration is magical... http://www.toonopedia.com/mandrake.htm

Re:Silly name - MandrakeMove

[zm]

No, Mandrake the Magician is a comic strip hero: http://www.kingfeatures.com/features/comics/mandra ke/about.htm or http://www.toonopedia.com/mandrake.htm

Great!

[Rudy Rodarte]

At last! Mandrake is my fav. Easy to use and easy to set up. I'll give this one a try for sure.

Re:Great!

[Rudy Rodarte]

TO the mods that modded me as troll, thanks a lot. If you look at my past posts, you'll see I am a Mandrake fanboy. Anyways, I'm downloading as we speak and should have it up an running by this afternoon!

Forgive me if I'm wrong...

[Anonymous Coward]

But I see no indication on the MandrakeMove page that the USB key is included with the retail release (as stated in the Slash).

Just an FYI.

Re:Forgive me if I'm wrong...

[Anonymous Coward]

I noticed that too, but If ya go to the order page, you'll see that they're planning to sell it for $60 with a 128MB key.

According to the store, 128mb...

[Kjella]

It's not even in the spec sheet, stupid I'd say. But it's listed in the store...

Kjella

Membership and Mandrake?

[nolife]

I'm not a Mandrake users, a quick look of the linked article did not appear to have a torrent and the download links seem to be all be membership based only?

Is there a licensing issue with "redistribution" of Mandrake ISO's or just a way to encourage support for Mandrake products? I'm not flaming here, just asking what the philosophy behind this is as torrents would seem to be a more logical method of distribution and could reduce a percentage of those costs that require membership fees in the first place.

Re:Membership and Mandrake?

[nolife]

Okay, I'm an idiot. I found the torrent link from the mirrors page.

Re:Membership and Mandrake?

[Anonymous Coward]

ISO are available for anyone (just read the stuff about membership, it just strongly encourages you but you can go on).

Re:Membership and Mandrake?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not quite. That's for version 9.2, not MandrakeMove. Maybe some nice chap will set up a torrent after they are done downloading from one of the current mirrors. (or we *could* ask them!)

Re:Membership and Mandrake?

[millette]

Actually, you want this torrent:

MD5 checksum: 111682eae2c454b4ca780119f63f8ad4 MandrakeMove-rc-i586.iso

Re:Why a USB key?

[DavidLeblond]

The name "MandrakeMove" implies that you can move it from computer to computer. While its possible you could carry around a hard drive everywhere you go, I guess they thought a USB drive would make more sense.

The direction the parade is heading.

[chill]

I just installed Mepis on my laptop last night -- a Debian derived Live CD that has the ability to install direct from the Live CD. Very slick.

The SuSE 9.0 Live CD didn't recognize the wireless LAN card on my desktop, so that didn't get anywhere.

Mepis was the first Live CD that I could effectively use for work, and not just a rescue CD or quick test. I used various tools for hours on the laptop (450 MHz P3, 328 Mb RAM) and it just worked.

Live CDs are the way to go.

Good way to circumvent library filters?

[Rude Turnip]

This could be a plus for people that need to access the Internet in local libraries that utilize draconian filters to block out politically questionable material...unless the entire network is run through a proxy server...in which case you could use this to SSH tunnel into an unfiltered proxy server!

Mandrake has always been my favorite Linux company & I like throwing them a couple bucks for a boxed set now and then. Good work!

Re:Good way to circumvent library filters?

[Anonymous Coward]

And if they prevent booting from a CD in the BIOS?
If it was a windoze box you'd just pop in the bootable CD featuring NtPasswd and have fun restting the admin password anyhow.....

Re:Good way to circumvent library filters?

[spuke4000]

You have to be able to boot from the CD though. Personally, I disable this by default to save ~1 sec at boot time, but I'm assuming that most library admins will have done this, or will shortly after the first person boots from a live CD (or else, why not just pop in a Win2K CD and do a fresh install of windows on that machine while your at it?)

Re:Good way to circumvent library filters?

[Rude Turnip]

I think wiping over the OS install on the hard drive will attract too much bad attention and steps will be taken to physically lock-down the machines. In those situations, it is best to tread lightly.

Re:Good way to circumvent library filters?

[/dev/trash]

And then libraries will start searching people and confiscate CDs before allowing thme to sit at the workstation.

Re:Good way to circumvent library filters?

[jonadab]

> I'm assuming that most library admins will have [disabled booting from CD]

I'm a library admin, and on our patron internet stations I've unplugged the
data and power cables from all the removable drives (those that *have*
removable drives, which is not my preference). Unfortunately, I do have to
leave the floppy drives plugged in on the word processing systems, but I do
disable booting from them in the BIOS.

If you think these measures aren't necessary, you've never worked in the IT
department at a public library.

If I had more control over the budget process, we'd have thin clients.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Why a USB key?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your ignorance shows through... why don't you take a LOOK at the NTFS specification. It will immediately apparent where the trouble lies.

Dumbass.

Re:Wow. This may help after my first linux install

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, how about hitting the enter key twice after a few sentences. Then repeat every so often. eh? It's almost as bad as those who type in all caps.

Questions --

[blackmonday]

How big is the USB Drive they include? Can I use my own?
I noticed in the first screenshot : "Multimedia Player for CDs / DVDs". How do they play DVDs legally?
If I have 2 CD / DVD drives on the system, can I use both and not have to swap disks? (I assume yes, but you know what happens when you assume...)

Re:Questions --

[Anonymous Coward]

let's suppose they do not use plf stuff: DVDs are not necesserally for movies. But even for movies you can read non-encrypted DVDs that way legally. They are some out there, just google around.

Re:Questions --

[cherad]

Mandrake is based in France, although they have offices in the USA. I would assume they can play DVDs legally because France allows the use of DeCSS for exactly what it was written for: The playback of your own DVDs on your own computer.

Problem with providing USB key capabilities to...

[ihummel]

retail purchasers exclusively:

Knoppix lets you store your personal info on a usb key device and it's free. But with MDK, you have not only to pay them money, but buy the retail pack to get this capability. Giving away a feature-crippled version and them selling a non-crippled version is a disturbing step Mandrake is taking, but it is not surprising considering some of the things that they've done recently.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Why a USB key?

[Anonymous Coward]

it's hard to figure out how to write to something when you don't have all the information about how it works and no one will tell you.

Hmmm, USB Keys. Usefull...almost

[Billy the Mountain]

Seems to me that these keys are becoming more popular. What seems to be lacking is the ability to install typical software on the key so that the software will run on the computer that you just plugged the key into. Yes, simple software DOES work, but once you get beyond a typical software installation with multitudes of files, your ability to run it on a "stranger" machine fades markedly.

BTM

Re:Sick

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this a troll to get some poor dudes email box full of hate mail? If so, do it elsewhere. This is Slashdot where high morals, integrity, repect and politeness abound.

Mac

[blackmonday]

I would really dig a live CD for my powerbook. Anyone know one? I tried one once, it booted into the commandline. I was hoping for a KDE or Gnome session.

Re:Mac

[ploppy]

Gentoo have a Gnome/KDE liveCD for PowerPC.

Re:Mac

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Gentoo has put together a PowerPC based live CD. I don't think it's stuffed full of software like Knoppix, but I do think it has all the basics.

Re:Mac

[mrscorpio]

My experience, with the x86 live CD anyway, is that it boots to command line and allows you to install binary packages...

Is the PowerPC version different from this?

Chris

Re:Mac

[bmsleight]

Try Knoppix for PPC (MIB)

Nothing new!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems to be a old approach applied to in a new
way:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&l r=&ie=UTF-8 &selm=876cbf54.0205221430.4972684%40posting.google .com

When will we have Bootable USB Key?

[Anonymous Coward]

Very cool but it doesn't quite have that "edge" anymore. What we should really work on is having a full bootable Linux distribution on a bootable 512MB or 1GB USB Keychain. Such a system would FLY!

Re:Wow. This may help after my first linux install

[Prof.Phreak]

Heh. I guess some moderators didn't read the whole thing...

Mandrake

[bigjocker]

I'm a Mandrake Club subscriber and have supported them for a few years now. But two weeks ago I erased my last version of it. I installed 9.2 before it went public (being a Mandrake Club member) and, desktop speaking, it's superb. Everything works out of the box, all my non-geek friends and family members used it at will.

But then I started trying to do stuff I did easily in slackware a few years back, like messing with the hardware and installing a video capture card. It became very frustrating after three days trying and no results. No kernel shipped by Mandrake would let me install RivaTV. A google search will show you that a lot of people is stuck at that point and you will not find any useful answer.

You could install a vanilla kernel, but that would break the whole point of having a dependence based distro (urpmi, apt, emerge, etc).

Trying to share a internet connection using the wizard would screw up the firewall settings, and trying to bring the firewall back up would screw the connection sharing configuration.

After a lot of thought I decided to ditch Mandrake and go for a more traditional Linux distro, being the Debian servers compromised around those days (and I believe they still are), I went the Gentoo way (I was a Slackware junkie 8 years ago) and I'm not going back.

True, you need a few days to have a full system, but you gain again control of your computer. I see Mandrake now at a very delicate point, getting each day more and more like proprietary OSes, hiding a lot of stuff from the user (even thought the tools and the utililities are open source they sometimes choose ways that are non-standards).

I loved Mandrake and I'm still going to recommend their products for newbies, heck, I'm going to renew my suscription with them just to help them out, but I won't come back.

Re:Mandrake

[Dr Caleb]

Hear hear! I tried Mandrake 9.1 for the first time, to set up a workstation and a server. The workstation bangs away at my squid proxy so often that the proxy reports active system attacks. The server is hung off then net directly, but can't do anything with the server. I chose static IP's, and there was no way to set up DNS from the GUI!

The desktop is smooth, but usability leaves a little to be desired.

Re:Mandrake

[Afrosheen]

That's why webmin is installed as part of the server packages installation. Webmin will let you edit pretty much anything on your box and it's graphical. Doesn't require apache either, and can run secure via ssl and port 10000.

I realize you're new, but there are many resources out there for you to learn from. irc.freenode.net #mandrake is but one.

Re:Mandrake

[RPoet]

Moderators On Crack, listen up ... this is nothing but an elaborate Gentoo zealot troll, but a troll nontheless. Be a little critical. He got ALL his non-geek friends and ALL his family using Mandrake? He believes the debian servers are still compromised? Get real.

Re:Mandrake

[Dr Caleb]

New to Mandrake, but old to RH. I just edited the .conf files the hard way, installed linuxconf and was OK for a while. I really like the desktop on the workstation as compared to RH 9.

I'll have to try this webmin thing of which you speak. Thanks!

Re:Mandrake

[Anonymous Coward]

moderators are really on crack. They modded u as "flamebait" !!

Re:Why a USB key?

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of idiot uses NTFS anyway?

Don't you need Windows for that?

Formatting on USB key

[pjrc]

What would be really nice (hint, hint, anyone from Mandrake reading this) would be for the unused portion of the key to also be usable as a "normal" USB key to transport data around between machines (running that other, monopoly-based OS)

Saddly, FAT16 is the standard format for USB keys, with the slow cluster chain following rather than fast inode structure, and without unix semantics like permissions, device files, hard links, and so on.

Maybe they'd allocate a big file and mount it with a loopback device? Or maybe they'll use on of the other mechanisms to make up for FAT filesystem limitations? Or maybe they'll just require the key to have an EXT2 or other "linux native" filesystem? But that would make the key unusable for the thing that makes those little keys so compelling... moving data around.

It's be pretty sad to have to carry 2 USB keys around, one for moving data between systems and a second one for MandrakeMove (or other distros that follow in their footsteps).

Re:Formatting on USB key

[wildchild978]

Why not just have two partitions & filesystems on the USB key?

Re:Hmmm, USB Keys. Usefull...almost

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless your computers have the .Net Framework, then your idea would work flawlessly...

Ooops...

[Anonymous Coward]

BIOS Password.

Re:Why a USB key?

[Anonymous Coward]

With any luck, they'll be updating the pages to provide more information as they move closer to shipping.

As it stands, I could use an extra key drive for $60, but it's described as a dedicated USB drive--implying that the drive will be filled with necessary files to enable CD removal, and/or that it isn't Win/OSX compatible. If I can't make use of the key as anything but a dongle, I think I'd pass. I'm interested (this would be my first Linux), but I'll hold off until this question gets answered.

USB Key only in Retail version

[DavidLeblond]

From what I understand, the retail version is the only version that SUPPORTS the USB key. It doesn't say anywhere that it comes with one.

Re:USB Key only in Retail version

[Jedi1USA]

That is only because it is a BETA version at this time. The full version (which is a pre-order at this time) will support the keys and include one in the box.

Re:Hmmm, USB Keys. Usefull...almost

[Liselle]

One of my favorite uses for a USB key is for showing off Opera to people still using IE. It installs perfectly, plays nicely, and doesn't throw things in weird locations. You're right about complex software, but that's no real surprise.

Re:Problem with providing USB key capabilities to.

[DrunkenTerror]

Giving away a feature-crippled version and them selling a non-crippled version is a disturbing step

What they're allowing people to download now is beta. I would assume the final release (like what will be on store shelves when it's finished) will work just fine, regardless of where you got it.

Requesting a Torrent or FTP mirror link

[Alan]

Could someone set up a bittorrent link or a north american mirror?

Re:Uninstalling Mandrake

[HermanZA]

Take a screwdriver, remove the hard disk and then wash it thoroughly under a shower with a mild detergent...

Live CD's + USB storage + iButton == Nirvana

[PureFiction]

I've been working on a linux distro for a few months now that is using this combination of technologies. It definitely appears to be a configuration of growing use and interest.

I added the cryptographic iButton to the list as the only piece missing from the live CD / USB fob picture is secure authentication so that when you are accessing your files remotely from any location, you need not fear about Man-in-the-Middle attacks or insecure password / authentication allowing attackers access to your data.

I talk about some of the features I want in this thread of wanted features / technologies

The future trends are moving quickly towards seamless access to data via mobile devices and wireless communications. A trusted operating system on a mini-CDR with a USB key fob storing dynamic data and strong authentication via cryptographic hardware is all you need to access files, music, movies, anything back at home or work with complete security (or, as much security as you can provide given a good OS configuration)

And the best part: it fits in your pocket. You can take it anywhere. You can "phone home" via wireless and reach everything there as if it was local.

With AES encryption of sensitive data on the USB fob you can prevent any kind of unauthorized copying that would reveal private data, and compression added to the mix lets you store a lot more than 256M or so of data as well.

The latest USB devices are capable of throughput in excess of 6 MegaBytes / second, which is more than adequate for most tasks.

Userspace / overlay filesystems with selective encryption, networked access, and secure decentralized distribution are going to make this kind of setup extremely sweet.

I can't wait for it...

Re:Uninstalling Mandrake

[YoungBonzi]

I tried that too...

Licensing..

[msimm]

Heres a quick link to Mandrake's licensing policy. Last line sums it up nicely.:

Last but not least, all software written by MandrakeSoft is publichsed under the General Public License (GPL).

As for "redistribution" the basic distribution includes OSS only and is free as in "unrestricted". They also release a Power Pack version that has some restrictions because it includes a lot of (great) non OSS software. So they don't really do the Suse thing, I've never used Suse because of that. I've check the club site (I'm a memeber) and didn't see any torrents there either.

Torrent link in parent is NOT the live cd

[nolife]

I am sending yet another reply to my own reply. The torrent I linked in parent is for the full Mandrake 9.2 distro, NOT for the live cd in the article. My inital post was about lack of torrents in general and I was happy to find Mandrake does indeed use torrents (although not yet for the live cd). Sorry for the link confusion and poor judgement on my part.

Format of USB key/drive

[jcpii]

Anybody know what format data is stored on the USB key in? FAT?

I guess what I'm really asking is if I'll be able to pull docs off the USB key with an out-of-the-box install of Windows or MacOS X.

-jcpii

Re:Format of USB key/drive

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, FAT is supported.

mandrake reliablity

[Dave_bsr]

I've had no problems with Mandrake's server software, such as their releases of Apache, proftp, postfix, mysql, etc. The MDK systems i admin (for fun and school) have not gone down without hardware problems...ever...Currently my last reboots were for kernel upgrades for my 9.1 systems (2 weeks), and install day for my 9.2 systems (about 25 days).

MDK on the server is just as good as kernel+server apps, and both are pretty stable for me.

Re:mandrake reliablity

[smcavoy]

kernel+server apps have been "optimized" by mandrake for performance. And plus their release cycle is so damn short.. I could go on.

But as they say, each to his own.

Re:mandrake reliablity

[leviramsey]

Indeed, I'd probably say that Mandrake is the best RPM-based server distro out there (especially for the price!).

Re:Hmmm, USB Keys. Usefull...almost

[slaker]

Why do that when you can show them Firebird instead?

Firebird (and thunderbird) both run natively from their home directories as well. Unzip and run the .EXE. Or just run the .exe. Whatever.

Firebird + Linky + Magpie + "only show images from originating server" for fewer banner ads + no stupid flash plugin. A damned near perfect browsing experience.

Why isn't this modded 5+ funny?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is Slashdot where high morals, integrity, repect and politeness abound.
Oh, thats a good one! Funny, it seems most people here love piracy, properganda and FUD, etc.

CAN we have one?

[sethadam1]

I'd say the lion's share of today's motherboards are NOT YET CAPABLE of booting to USB, certainly not the PCs with which you'd really want to use such a distro. I can't imagine going back to boot floppies.

I don't know about new, more modern mobos though - they may be able to boot to a USB or firewire device.

Re:CAN we have one?

[Anonymous Coward]

Macs can boot off of Firewire... Imagine a tiny, Firewire (faster than USB 2) key drive!

A bootable key drive coupled with internet-based file storage would be heavenly. Any broadband-endowed PC would also have full access to your remotely-stored music, pr0n,

!

Re:CAN we have one?

[shumacher]

Firewire isn't faster than USB 2. Firewire 800 is faster than USB 2. That having been said, I would probably buy a Firewire key.

Damn...

[Byteme]

I thought it was for this Mandrake. You ruined my life!

Re:Hmmm, USB Keys. Usefull...almost

[Liselle]

The easy answer is that I prefer Opera, having tried both at some point. I also like supporting them. Firebird works too, though. :)

UMSDOS: Unix on FAT

[Anonymous Coward]

The UMSDOS filesystem emulates ugo permissions and long filenames on FAT filesystems by storing the additional data in another file per directory. It is slow, but so are USB keyfobs and loopback devices, and it works well enough--my first distro was ZipSlack, Slackware on UMSDOS in 100 MB.

Re:Uninstalling Mandrake

[NanoGator]

"Take a screwdriver, remove the hard disk and then wash it thoroughly under a shower with a mild detergent..."

Copied and pasted from the TurboTax FAQ.

No, includes...

[msimm]

Here's a preorder link. I quote:

Content

- 1 bootable CD
- 1 USB key, 128 Mb
- 1 booklet

Re:No, includes...

[hswerdfe]

$59.9 US
or you can get it without the key for
$19.9

Re:Sick

[NanoGator]

"This is Slashdot where high morals, integrity, repect and politeness abound."

That comment actually made me look up for a moment to make sure I didn't typo the domain name.

Differences vs. Knoppix?

[darnok]

Has anyone tried both this and Knoppix? Are you able to comment on the pros and cons of each?

The only difference I noted is that MandrakeMove says it doesn't support use of a USB key from the download-only version. Whether it actually works or not, it doesn't say.

Re:Hmmm, USB Keys. Usefull...almost

[leviramsey]

Just wondering how useful "only show images from originating server" really is. After all, there's a lot of non-banner uses for a separate image server (the main one being if you're running a dynamic site and want to mod_mmap the graphics for even better performance).

Some answers..

[msimm]

Are here on the preorder page. I haven't downloaded the beta yet, but in the past Mandrake included things like stock (vanilla) versions of Xine *without* css support. They may still, but I'm so in the habit of installing the PLF files before doing anything that I couldn't honestly tell you if 9.2 came with being able to read encrypted DVD's out of the box. FWIW not all DVD's are encrypted and having a non-css DVD player *is* useful, just not as useful.

Re:Some answers..

[PhB95]

I currently try 9.2 : Xine has been replaced by Totem (which uses a xine engine). To play encrypted DVDs I just added libdvdcss from plf. This is becoming very easy, I remember I had a few things to find/download/install to get xine to play encrypted DVDs on Mandrake 9.0 and 9.1. And getting it to correctly handle DVD menus was not so simple either, while now totem does well out of the box.

Re:Some answers..

[SamDrake]

Snort ... the preorder page is a perfect summary of the Linux experience:

"...discover the powerful graphical tools and utilities, high-performance system optimizations, impressive selection of first-class applications, and the world-famous "Mandrake Linux touch".

Price : 59.9 USD"

Tools so powerful and impressive that they are unable to display monetary amounts using standard conventions! Sheesh.

Re:Some answers..

[grmoc]

The dollar sign '$' is ambigious, since several countries have a 'dollar' currency, not the least of which is Canada.

USD is a relatively common way of saying a United States Dollar, which is much less ambigious.

Re:Some answers..

[grmoc]

It would be nice if I spelled 'ambiguous' properly. Bah.

Re:Some answers..

[SamDrake]

Of course ... but the proper way to write USD values is with 2 digits to the right of the decimal point. Apparently the "Mandrake touch" is a lazily written Perl program. :-)

"Price : 59.9 USD"

Ok I guess if you've never heard of Knoppix

[bogie]

Considering how long distros like Knoppix have been around this product is hardly pioneering, but may be useful for Mandrake users who don't want to use any other distro.

If you want to check out a neat Knoppix based distro that's only 50MB check out, Dam Small Linux.
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

It obviously doesn't have the same amount of apps that Knoppix has, but for checking out linux, surfing the web, using IRC, and doing some light office editting its pretty cool. It also unlike Knoppix and I'm sure Mandrake will run on a 486 with 16MM ram. So if you bored or on dialup check out Dam Small Linux.

Re:That "removable cd feature"... is better

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not the same. Not everything is loaded into memory, you start on the CD, run the video player, remove the CD, play the video (can't run anything else) put back the CD, can run new applications.

That needs far less memory than loading everything into memory.

CD-ROM is slow, how about device files?

[xixax]

CD-ROM is slow, no matter how good the drive is. Wouldn't copying a filesystem to local disk make a difference to performance? Say copy the filesystem image(s) to the local drive using the native OS, and have the bootable CD use such images in preference. As a plus, you could carry around more than one CD worth of stuff without resorting to "Amiga Workbench floppy mode".

You could have a root image that contains basic apps, then additional images for particular task sets.

Xix.

Re:CD-ROM is slow, how about device files?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can do this with Knoppix: just copy the 700MB file to your HD and when you boot Knoppix (with floppy, still with CD or by asking grub to boot that kernel) it will scan all partitions for that file and use it from HD if it found it.

Re:CD-ROM is slow, how about device files?

[Anonymous Coward]

I assume that with 500MB of RAM becoming more standard (I'm betting loads of people here have over 1gig) that any essential stuff can simple be stored in RAM which (last time i checked) was a little faster than CD-ROM access.

Re:Sick

[xSauronx]

you didnt

he misspelled "respect"

must be slashdot

dear god!

[frankmanowar]

It looks a bit like Knoppix, but comes with more features, such as the capability to eject the MandrakeMove CD-ROM during its use, in order to read audio or video files from another CD!

Are we going backwards to the dark days of DOS?
boot to floppy, remove floppy,
C:\ >I am so awesome.exe
Syntax Error

Re:dear god!

[wildchild978]

Actually, if you boot to a floppy, the default prompt will be a:\ therefore the correct witty jibe would be boot to floppy, remove floppy, A:\>I am so awesome.exe Bad Command or File Name

Re:IDE Experts?

[sinewalker]

huh? Not sure what you're trying to achieve here, but if it's just to prevent people munging their Windoze drives, it seems pretty drastic (and darn inconvinient when you want to use Windoze again)... Better to just mount the hard drive read-only instead: mkdir -p /var/mnt/win-c && mount -t vfat -ro /dev/hda1 /var/mnt/win-c (assuming /var is on a RAM disk / USB key or somewhere that is writeable to MandrakeMount) Probably MandrakeMount already does this -- Knoppix does, and it seems sensible that Mandrake would adopt Knoppix's "hands off" approach...

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[account_deleted]

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no USB drive

[frovingslosh]

from Mandrake's site: (Note: The Beta version does not support USB key features).

and

the MandrakeMove Boxed Edition provides the ability to save configuration and personal data to a USB key.

So this release canidate cannot save to the USB key, and it looks like a download version may never do that, since they emphasise that it's the Boxed Edition that does that. Bummer.

You can't have it all

[InodoroPereyra]

Instead of modding you as overrated, I will answer some missconcceptions.

Ok, you can't have it all. As you mentioned: your non-geeks friends and family are having fun with Mandrake. However you want to install and compile things, and Gentoo is more like what you want. Cool again. That's what free software is all about, freedom and choices.

But this needs to be clarified:

I see Mandrake now at a very delicate point, getting each day more and more like proprietary OSes, hiding a lot of stuff from the user (even thought the tools and the utililities are open source they sometimes choose ways that are non-standards).

This is inaccurate. First of all, Mandrake is much, much, much closer to debian or whatever distro you could think of, than it is to proprietary OS's. You get the damn source, period Also: Mandrake is LSB (standards) compliant. Another period ;-)

Now, what you propably would agree with me, is that Mandrake has become too agressive in their customization of free software packages, and this includes the kernel. IMHO, they would be much better off shipping vanilla packages plus a minimal set of patches. Take for instance the kernel, they should (IMHO) jus add supermount, and add the third-party modules as they do, and that should be it. All of this on top of the latest vanilla stable kernel.

If you follow cooker or read the changelogs in their RPMS, you'll notice that they spend a lot of energy backporting things from development branches for several packages. Notably, they do it with the kernel. This precious time would be much better invested on improving their own tools, which as you said, have some flaws, but as you also said, give you overall a great distro working out of the box.

In the end, even when mandrake can be improved, you have to realize that you can't have it all. You either put a lot of your own time on building your customized distro from scratch (or a la gentoo), or you take a distro that does it for you, and yes, it will make some decisions for you. It is your choice, enjoy freedom ;-)

Re:You can't have it all

[bigjocker]

What I'm referring to is to the fact that Mandrake is a commercial distribution. They can easily go the RH way and stab all their non-enterprise customers in the back.

As I said, Mandrake *is* a great distribution, and was my distribution of choice for over three years. Being a programmer (not a SysAdmin) left me with no much time on my hands to tweak the system, so Mandrake was God-send.

But in the long run I have been very frustrated when trying to do things outside of Mandrake 'sandbox'. In the long run I have spent as much (or even more) time fighting with the Mandrake wizards and configuration files (heck, I have even written scripts to recover configuration parameters to be run after the wizards would change everything).

I have supported Mandrake for the past few years, but they have chosen a dangerous direction. They could have kept a complex system underneath and a few wizards to ease everything, but they have expanded the easyness to all the levels, and that's not good.

I'm still a Mandrake junkie, and will be checking all new releases, but my machine will keep on running gentoo (or debian).

When you come to look at it, only the community driven efforts are the ones that provide you with the bigger freedom. Altruism is not always a bad thing.

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[account_deleted]

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Re:DVD... cant have a bootable dvd fwik

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to use a boot floppy. So you need to carry around a floppy plus the dvd nevermind being tied to a legacy device that some systems might not have. Or I guess a bootable cd to boot the dvd.

Why isn't this part of the dvd spec?

Re:Hmmm, USB Keys. Usefull...almost

[slaker]

I used "Block Images..." on Moz builds for two years+ while I was on a ~14.4ish internet connection. I moved, got DSL, thought I'd finally get to see *everything*, realized that "Holy Shit there are a lot of banner ads" and turned it back on again.

Moz/Firebird image permissions mean never having to look at ads. Somehow, the internet is just better that way.

I've found Opera [3,4,5,6] to be intolerably crashy. That and the fact that some silly person expects me to pay for a browser are all I need to write it off completely.

Re:IDE Experts?

[shumacher]

Google for Forensic Drive Controller.

Re:IDE Experts?

[evilviper]

Your search - "Forensic Drive Controller" - did not match any documents.

Everything I found on my own was *quite* expensive, defeating the whole purpose.

Re:IDE Experts?

[evilviper]

huh? Not sure what you're trying to achieve here

A read-only media option, significantly better than CDs. There are many, many reasons I'm sure you could find on your own.

it seems pretty drastic (and darn inconvinient

What's drastic about re-wiring an IDE cable?

Better to just mount the hard drive read-only instead

Doesn't help when the people have root access. Doesn't help if you want to put this in multiple computers. Doesn't help if there is a bug in the kernel that corrupts filesystems. etc.

Also, not all operating systems allow you to force your partitions to be mounted as read-only.

USB Thumbdrive?

[Nailer]

I presume you must mean USB memory key. Some (well everyone round here) people call them thus because they're pretty easy to put on your keychain, and you can insert them and pull them out from their end like a key.

Can MandrakeMove be installed to hard drive?

[Anonymous Coward]

I did not see any info on the Mandrake site concerning this.

NeXT promised that 20 years ago

[Anonymous Coward]

and I'm still waiting.

Re:NeXT promised that 20 years ago

[PureFiction]

Funny you mention that. I'm in the process of building a case mod using an old NeXT station Turbo case for holding two mini-ITX M10000 motherboards.

They fit just perfectly within the case, and there is enough room along the edge where the raised power supply / cooling fins are to place 2 HDD's.

The cooling built into the case also comes in handy for cooling the drives mounted next to it, and the power supply mounted on top.

On a more on-topic note, the NeXT machines were expensive and tied to hardwar: the NeXT Station. A mini-CDR, USB key fob, and java iButton fit in your pocket, and can be used in any system that can boot from CD.

I think this is a crucial difference, but i'm probably wrong (the devil is in the details, and who knows which ones will prove critical and which ones are simply cosmetic).

Quick question

[__aailob1448]

I'm downloading the .iso now. I don't have a usb thumbdrive. Can i boot this without fear of it affecting my current winXP installation? Ya know, just to toy around with it a little.

I'm guessing yes. And I'm guessing even if somehow it can't use the free space in my NTFS5 formatted HD, it won't do anything without asking me first. Which is why i'm going ahead with it in the probable case I don't get an answer within...1 hour and 18 seconds :p

Mini Cool Linux CD / Slackware Review

[vettemph]

"Slackware-Live" is a very clean linux system. It will install a standard KDE desktop with kOffice. It has no problem using your dialup or ADSL/(cable too?) IF you know how to use adsl-setup/adsl-start which are easy to learn.

The "Cool Linux CD" on the other hand is very amazing. It will detect and install drivers for your nVidia card (and others?) so that you can use the included 3D games, various 2D and 3D modeling software, 3D Solar system and Universe models, Packet Sniffers and a few other neat items. Cool Linux CD is a loaded Linux CD. The only problem I had with it was connecting via ADSL.

Lets hope Mandrake has landed somewhere in the middle. should be fun.

How about Linux Terminal Server Project?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Yeah for linux desktops this would be a great idea since, currently, there really is no solution equivalent to deep freeze for windows/mac os X... It's absoultely fantastic if you are administering a lab or lots of public computers as it allows you to not have to lock up a computer at all and still not worry about anybody messing the sytem up.

I'm not sure what you mean. This DF sounds a LOT like what Linux Terminal Server Project can do.

No?

Why not ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... just have programs like Knoppix access a URL that has your configuration detailed in, say, XML format. (including shortcuts, wallpaper, etc. - it could even be encrypted!) This would mean you could have 'your' desktop on any computer with a CD drive and an internet connection - course, it _could_ work with a USB drive as well.

Leo

Hard Drive Support?

[billstewart]

How much support does this provide for accessing hard drives? Autodetection? Automounting? UMSDOS? Detecting Config files on the drive? Rescuing broken configurations?

Sure, there are applications for which total
portability and a USB key are fine. But often I'd like to be able to work with files on a standalone machine, access downloaded material, etc., even though the underlying machine is configured for Windows. It'd be especially nice to have features like recognizing a /home directory or a /var spool.

Another environment for which this is useful is little server machines hanging off an Internet connection where you're not monitoring security all the time. The thing can sit around serving web pages, running intrusion detection, acting as a honeypot or teergrube for annoying spammers, etc., and if it gets attacked and rooted, you just reboot. Perhaps a more security-oriented distro would be better for this, since this sounds more desktop-oriented, but it'd be nice to have one consistent environment.

Re:Hmmm, USB Keys. Usefull...almost

[leviramsey]

Still, how many non-banners are you missing?

well ... is it really useful?

[Anonymous Coward]

can it access my TCPIP networked printer easily? are there suitable printer drivers?
can it access my companies Windows NT shares?
can it authenticate to Windows networks?
will it talk to exchange?

if not it is useless to me and my fellow staff!
Jann

Re:well ... is it really useful?

[sireasoning]

> can it access my TCPIP networked printer easily?
> are there suitable printer drivers?
> can it access my companies Windows NT shares?
> can it authenticate to Windows networks?
> will it talk to exchange?

my experience with knoppix:

- cups will work with most printers including tcp/ip printers. If there is another linux computer running a cups server with those printers already configured... then knoppix will pick up those printers without a need to install/configure them.

- you can access Windows NT shares via LinNeighborhood

- authenticating to windows networks is possible via samba, but not necessary to run a live-cd.

- you can access exchange in several ways, with the easiest being via a web browser...
http://server/exchange
other ways include imap and evolution or kmail, but that would require some configuration.

Re:well ... is it really useful?

[otis wildflower]

Then you and your fellow staff are tools.

What other response would you expect from Slashdot?

Sorry troll, these kicks are for trids..

mklivecd

[buchanmilne]

Of course.

A seperate project related to Mandrake and Live CDs is livecd, which has some tools available for making Mandrake-based Live CDs.

mklivecd is a simple tool to generate a live CD, and it is included in Mandrake 9.2 contribs. Basically, you can do something like this to try it out:

# urpmi mklivecd
# mklivecd livecd.iso

There are some issues, which have been addressed in the CVS version.

Also new in CVS is a seperate minimal CD-to-HD installer.

I have made about 3 Live CDs based on Mandrake 9.2 using mklivecd.

Way to go for installers, next step after Live CDs

[Walles]

This is IMO the way to go for installers. Instead of the current specialized install program that has to run in a special environment without X, network or anything else, I'd love to have a live CD like this.

The CD should get me into a fully working desktop environment. If I give the word, it should install itself on the hard drive. This way, the installer could be written using all of GNOME, KDE, OpenGL or whatever rings your bell. Now that Live CDs are obviously doable, I don't really see why any distro would want to ship a classic install program anymore.

Also, for newcomers, they get to see proof that Linux actually works before diving into it. And if it doesn't work on their system, I bet they'd rather find out sooner rather than later.

And, to push the envelope even further, why not a Windows exe that re-boots the computer into a Live-CD like environment, but with everything read from an FTP server rather than a CD? Wanna try Linux? Go to this URL and press "OK". Like it so much you want to have it on your hard drive? Just click "Install on Hard Drive" on your KDE / GNOME desktop. It could even be possible (I don't know) to keep running on the existing Internet connection without breaking it through the reboot, thus voiding the need for the user to re-connect after reboot.

Here's my $0.03 - for an Idea.

[danalien]

Instead of 'bootable cds'..,

'bootable flash memory key rings'?

.... and you could even make some money, if you cooperated with a 'flash memory key ring' manufacturer.. and sold them with your 'linux distro' allready on them.


Don't get me wrong, I like/love 'bootable cds', like knoppix - heck it's my rescue disk nowaday. But the only thing, that's kind of *bugging*/*irritating*, is that changes you make while you run it, won't get saved (unless you use, that floppy-option *but in a floppy-free comp, as mine, what then?*)... and, and...THE SPEED kind of like could be improved if you used a USB 2.0 interface instead.

*anyway*, just my three cent's, for an Idea.

Re:Hmmm, USB Keys. Usefull...almost

[slaker]

Almost none. I found a site, once, that was stealing its navigation buttons from another site, and on some forums that I visit, I don't see some inline images.
It's absolutely worth it to not see ads. That's all there is to it.

Download free, retail version has other advantages

[buchanmilne]

But with MDK, you have not only to pay them money, but buy the retail pack to get this capability.

You aren't very clear here, but as far as I know, there will be two versions of MandrakeMove, one freely downloadable version without USB support, then the retail version with USB support, Realplayer, NVidia drivers, etc etc.

The retail version can be bought on it's own for $20 or with a 128MB USB storage device (that Mandrakesoft has tested with the release, and the only on they support, since the have had issues with some hardware) for $60.

Re:Good idea using Ninnle Key....

[Anonymous Coward]

Those of us in the know have been using a bootable CD based version of Ninnle Linux for a while. It predates Knoppix and Demolinux by a good year or so, does not fry any hardware, and works with anything, even Winmodems!

PCLinuxOS

[ReinoutS]

For anyone interested in MandrakeMove, you may also want to check out PCLinuxOS. It's a similar project lead by Texstar (famous for many Mandrake RPM contribs), based on Mandrake 9.2.

More info can be found here.

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[account_deleted]

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problems with MandrakeMove boot CD

[netcom]

I new too this, so please bear with me. I download the ISO file MandrakeMove-rc-i586.iso, then burn to CD-R with EasyCD, making sure file system type is set to ISO 9660. But tried to boot from this CD on 2 different Compaq's (made sure to set boot order to boot from CD-ROM drive first, then floppy, then hard drive. But both machines (pentium II's) always boot up Win95. What wrong??!!

Re:IDE Experts?

[sinewalker]

Well okay

There's a pinout chart here . I suppose you could cut #23 and see what happens...

I thought it was a drastic/inconvinient approach because you have to carry the cable around with you and install it. Not good on company controlled assets (the field support guys start freeking out, stuff about waranties, it gets wierd).

Alternatively if you're going to do a mass-install for a kiosk or something, then that's a lot of cables to cut and afterwards you can't write to the discs on any of those machines.

IMHO the point of these Linux CDs is to have the Linux OS available at whichever machine you're at, without installing / munging that machine. Cutting cables doesn't seem to mesh with this. Also read only for other OSes seems out of scope because you are booting Linux. Again, I guess I don't see what you're trying to do :-)

Hope the URL helps anyway...