Slashdot Mirror
Open Source CD Lending For Public Libraries?
phatlipmojo writes "Bob Kerr has taken what might well be an important step in getting open source software to the masses: donating CDs to public libraries for lending. It's a simple idea, but fraught with complications; indeed, at first, he couldn't give the CDs away to the wary libraries. Mr. Kerr dealt with the complications admirably, and has had a great deal of success getting open source CDs into lending libraries around his home country, as Mr. Kerr's howto PDF and this NewsForge article detail. What kinds of suggestions would Slashdotters make in addition to Mr. Kerr's to help make open source software on public library shelves a widespread reality?"
Hmm...
This could do well in association with a local User Group of some sort, methinks.
Getting a bunch of people together to organize the CD labeling, DVD-cases instead of jewel cases, etc could help spread the cost and work around, as well as creating a perfect "next step" for the people checking out the software - a user group basically waiting for them.
I especially like the quote: Forcing anyone to do something they don't want to do just breeds resentment.
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
I suggest to Mr. Kerr, that he consider BYOCD (bring your own CD). Users could burn their own cdroms from a plethora of projects that meet a particular library criteria, for quality and safety.
It might be smart for libraries to offer two methods for achieving this:
1) Library burns cds on demand for a small fee.
2) Users burn cds themselves.
Having actual cdroms on a shelf for people to "check out", as it were, is likely a bad idea for a number of reasons. The large volume of cds occupying shelves would be a copy of the old library system, so it would likely be their default method, but it's incorrect, imho; it's a waste of space; it goes against the mighty electronic way. Burning on demand is the way to go because the open source community could ensure that the most recent versions of software are available, and that fresh new content would flow into libraries everywhere, rather than fill up shelves until the place has no more room.
Stop gaps could be issued at the base system, to prevent abuse, and this would be much easier if the product was electronic.
...he even provides a sample CD cover insert (on the next-to-last page of the PDF file).
Major props to him for taking the time to write up his experiences - both the successful moves and not-so-successful ones as well.
The Army reading list
...just to make sure what went out is what came back in. :-)
(Admittedly I have not yet read the article he may well have covered this.)
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I've borrowed CD's (both audio and data) and DVD's from the local library and about 50% of them have bad scratches on them.
Burning your own at the library would be the way to go.
CMDRTACO CHECK YOUR EMAIL!
Any non-third world country has the resources to download FOSS products. And any developing country needs the commerce that commercial software brings. Not to mention the security, scalability, and nice GUI said commercial software has. After all, what good is a CLI if you can't read?
come to think of it, what good are 3 year outdated man pages even if you can read?
I just love this idea. I can just imagine the thrill I would have had a teenager back in the late 70's to be able to go down to the library and "check out" an operating system, install it, and return it the following day. Perhaps I'm simply nostalgically emoting, but this seems like a nice idea to increase the grass roots of open source generally.
www.enthea.org
I guess it's time to add some trojans to CD's and give them to the library.
How about just making a copy for 10 cents and giving it to people instead?
Burn 'em all! (onto cdrs for $.50ea and give them away.)
A project for your local Linux group: Take an old machine with a burner and donate a Linux kiosk to the library. Install enough hard drive space to hold ISOs of recent versions of the most popular distros. Make an intuitive menu for selecting a distribution to burn and then just have the user insert CDs after that. The library could sell blank CDs or users could bring their own..
Create an Event out of it.
... now you're talking!
Encourage people to bring their PCs and have them installed/configured with various FOSS stuff like OOorg.
Combine this with a programme to train young people in IT and you have your enthusiastic staff.
Use the library as the place where these two meet.
Turn it into a para-religious experience: "Born Again Penguins", as people dip the parasite-ridden carcinogenic carcasses of their old WinXP boxes into the holy water of Linux and come back home with a brand new box.
Mix it with booze and music.
Move it from the library to a spacious converted warehouse.
Add a coffee bar and wireless hotspot.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
I was checking around the stacks at my local library and saw that they had a Learn Linux book (Yah!) but the installation CD was for RedHat 6.2 (Uhoh..) I was very tempted to slip a recent install into the book along with a card explaining it.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Everybody loves free stuff. Once people find out that opensource software is just as good/better than proprietary software, we are doing good. There needs to be a major push starting with educators and librarians on the benefits of opensource software. If there are any teachers/librarians reading this, please make software like this available to your students! What about mass distributing open source software akin to the mass mailings of AOL CD-ROMS?
OpenOffice.org
KNOPPIX
Mandrake LiveCD
Debian installation CD
Fedora
The for-Windows
Can anyone think of any more? Mandrake and RedHat aren't likely to want people selling copies of their software, they'd probably want you to buy it from them, instead.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Am I the only one that thinks this is a bad idea? All it takes is one script kiddie or spammer getting the idea to check out a CD, take it home, replace it with their own kernel/binaries/whatever, and voila! Ownage. I think an alternative would be to get behind hosting community Open Source events... after all, anyone who is interested in Open Source Software, probably already has the means to access the large, free, online library known as the Internet from the comfort of their own home.
Someone recommended a burning on demand. Not a bad idea if someone is willing to keep the people there upto date with new images couple months and train people how to burn the CD's. Its sad to see that many don't know the difference between, say, buring a music CD and an ISO.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
I-street:
GovExec.com:
And finally, this paper has an overview of open source adoption and resistance.
No goatse redirects in the installer? Just a thought.
I'm surprised that more libraries don't have a library of CDs of various Linux distros and larger open source packages. I also wonder if some chariable OSS-minded soul could donate a pre-configured tighty locked low-end PC and CD-burner to a local library. With used PCs being so cheap, a basic setup (with a 100 GB IDE HD) would be under $200. Either the donor or librarians could make a set of for-checkout CDs or library patrons could make their own CD bundles (paying a nominal fee for media or bringing in their own media).
Do we need an open source project to create a simple locked linux library distro and easy-to-use CD maker?
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Unfortunatly for most schools, price is not the problem.. its the stubbornness to change.
http://www.phrite.net
I live in a small town with ~21.000 peoples in it. We have one public library, and I work there in my spare time (4 hours a weak). :P
Anyway, I'll see what I can do. What software would you suggest?
I thought about Open Office, but it sucks to set up for danish support (my native language). What else would be appealing?
A full Linux distrubtion like Mandrake?
A live CD?
Some games?
While this may make sense in Scotland, does it really make sense in places where broadband is more readily available?
I mean, first off, Linux simply isn't ready for the desktop or the unclued user. I hate to say it guys, but it's true. My dad could install and use Windows, but he could not install use Linux (that would be any distribution you care to name). And I consider him to be an average computer user.
Secondly, it seems that there's a large disparity among audiences here. People who are capable of installing and using Linux simply aren't the kind of people who'd get their copy from a library shelf. Perhaps in areas where there is no broadband, okay... But in areas where there is fast connections (like an ever increasing majority of the US), they'd simply find a fast connection.. Like work, or a friend's cable modem, or DSL, or even the store shelves at Best Buy. Whatever. The library simply isn't where you find software.
For that matter, what library *anywhere* has software on its shelves? I've been in a lot of libraries, in big metro areas and small communities, and many of them are just now starting to carry DVD's, and even then it's hesitantly. And the only reason they carry movies in the first place is to attract a different kind of crowd. I mean, if the idea here is to do the same, by attracting a different kind of crowd, then more power to 'em, but that doesn't seem to be the thrust of the article here.
I guess I'm wondering what exactly the point of putting OSS on the shelves of the local library is.. What's the goal? What does this accomplish? A user wanting to install Linux around here certainly wouldn't check the library. I think the shelf space there is probably more suited to, oh, *books* or some such thing.
I'd predict that even if all the hurdles of convincing a library to maintain an OSS CD library were jumped, the library itself would suffer the same fate as technical books at most local libraries.
The technical books themselves take so long to procure because of the multiple(albiet not vast) layers of red tape that by the time they end up on the shelves, they're flirting with being out of date (just as new tech books flirt with being out of date before even hitting the store shelves).
I can't think of any open source project that isn't regularly patched, and because of this constant progression, I can't see a CD library being up to date, ever. It would require an individual or group of individuals who would simply cost too much to justify having them in the first place to maintain it.
This man may just have radically altered the course of Scottish society. He is bringing enlightenment to thousands. This could be the best thing to happen to Scotland this century.
Well done!
Stick Men
Stand outside a middleschool or highschool (Do _not_ tresspass!) with Linux CDs, mini-manuals (give lots of URLs for help and support), and a soda all bundled in a bag. Sure, most kids will just snag the soda and ditch the rest... But there will always be the curious kids. Furthermore, the nextgen geeks will be bound to get chummy over an event like this ("I dual boot debian TOO!") -- tell them they should support the community by helping the other interested kids install linux...
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.
I'm the IT manager at a large public library, and I wouldn't touch this with a ten-foot stack of catalog cards.
We have almost completely stopped circulating CD-ROMs of any sort because the patrons have an expectation that the library will help them make it work, and if you mix initially lousy or just plain old software ("this storybook requires you to install quicktime 2.1") with who-knows-what the patron's got at home, it spells customer service disaster. No matter what kind of a disclaimer you put on it, circulating this kind of stuff would incur far more ill will from clueless patrons than it would benefit any unlikely geek who knows what they're doing but doesn't have access to sufficient bandwidth.
However, I would happily offer burners for public use and make blank media (and our bandwidth) available. That way, they get to keep the disc. Or hand them out at intro to OSS classes. Or mirror some trees. But put them on the shelves? No way. On top of everything else, they'd be outdated before they even made it through cataloging.
Nice idea though.
0) He says libraries like DVD cases and hate CD jewel cases. Makes sense to me.
1) He says: Going into the future, I see the huge amount of power that magazines with CDs on their covers now have. There is at least one Linux magazine in the United Kingdom that has a DVD case with a CD inside glued to each issue, so I think that's what he's talking about.
2) I'm a raving Debian fan, but I hope he's also providing easy-to-install distros like Mandrake.
3) Once Progeny gets the Red Hat "Anaconda" installer working with Debian, I'd love to see Debian/Anaconda CDs in every library!
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Most public libraries I know have windows machines which can be used by anyone to hop on the net. Schedule meetings with librarians and convince them to put linux on these boxes instead. They don't get a lot of money in these places, so if you volunteer to set it up for them for free they'll probably accept. The cash they save by not paying for windows licenses is more than enough. Sure, patrons might not know what to do at first, but the library is a place of learning. They'll soon learn to click on the red dinosaur instead of on the blue e.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
This is a good idea. Especially if the library has broadband internet access (as many do nowadays). The local LUG could then administer the box by providing updated images to it remotely.
I figure that with just a bit of effort, you could make a small tabletop version of this for under $1000 or so. I mean, all it needs is a cheap system, a burner (preferably without a tray, as they tend to get broken in public places), and a monitor. Form factor could be exceedingly thin with a custom casing for it, esp. if you used an LCD panel for the screen.
Thin and small is good here, because that means it's not taking up space in the library, which would make getting the librarians to agree much easier.
Write some custom software to basically provide a menu of images that the user can pick from (and optionally allow the local LUG to remotely administer the thing), assure the librarian that it's all open source software (which entails explaining OSS to them), get their agreement and assure them that it's no maintainance at all for them (plus let them sell blank CD's/DVD's on a markup, and it'd be done.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
From the article: Their first reason is, "They can't trust the public." I was insulted at first, but when someone at my local Linux User Group came up to me and said, "Wouldn't it be funny if I made a CD with a virus on it and donated it to the library?" I realized the libraries were absolutely correct. This idiot in my local group proved the case for them.
I'd rather bring an old locked down linux box with eight 250GB internal drives, and allow library patrons to hot plug their USB hard disks into it and share thier warez back and forth. Put a big sign next to the box that says "insert USB hard disk cable here --->" and allow everyone to sync their data with the warez mothership of ISO images.
http://fossile-project.sourceforge.net/ If I had the money, I'd just buy the latest "Linux (insert version number here) Bible" book and CD set and donate it to my favorite local branch every year.
I tried to get one system into our local town library. The director of the library flatly refused to even consider the proposal to have a linux workstation in the library.
Essentially, even if volunteer-maintained and/or no maintenance required(think Knoppix), she said that they were Windows, and Windows only, and that was because that's what the Minuteman Network supports(the Minuteman Network is a nice little corporation that's making money off the local town libraries.)
Despite being exceptionally polite, she wouldn't even examine the proposal, and complained about issues I had addressed already- in the proposal, if she had bothered to read it.
Please help metamoderate.
Hello all, Firstly I think this is a magnificent idea with some possible drawbacks. It would be simple to distribute with a donation of a CD Writer or 2 per library with a OSS catalogs on DVD distributed out to each library through the existing library resource network already in place, for instance here in Michigan a larger library organization is the lakeland Org., gathering a representative from each org (which already exists) they in turn contact the OSS distribution org for access to the DVD listing, DVD get delivered and then are listed in the software dewey decimal system for access too. Then as joe/jane user comes in, looks through the available list and selects a desired program/OS to try at home, he/she asks the librarian for the disk with *** software on it. for a fee of the CD and small recoup for library time and equipment (1$ US perhaps)the software is cooked to CD and presented to joe/jane at that time. With this said, the first time joe or jane asks for software, they are presented with a form stating quite explicatly that NO support comes from the library system for this software at all. seek a technician (perhaps even have a local Tech listed as someone to contact) The software is free, the overhead of electrical and the librarian, the CD and the access DVD's is covered via the fee. local techs gain business, libraries become cool places for geeks and non-geeks to hang again, ice cream tastes better, your clothes fit and look better, your teeth are whiter, etc etc etc
From the article:
..."
1 /rights_and_enti.html
On the CD I donated, I also included the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It states, in Article 26, "Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free at least in the elementary and fundamental stages
I'm a libertarian, so I don't agree with this, at least as worded.
A "right" is something that you must always be granted, no matter what. If you look at the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution, you will find they are rights to be left alone: the right to free speech (no one can silence you), the right to not have to testify against yourself, etc. These are "negative" rights, your right to be left alone. (You will notice a right to own and carry weapons, but no mention of where you will get them; no one has any obligation to provide them to you.)
If you have a "right" to education, where does it come from? Do you have a right to grab a teacher and make that teacher teach you? How does your "right" to education compare with a teacher's right to decide what he or she wants to do? What happens if not enough people choose to be teachers -- do we need to force some people to be teachers to guarantee that there are enough teachers for everyone?
I would agree with wording that says "Education is important, and society should make education a priority." I'd even agree with a right to own educational materials. But I don't see how you can make a "right" to education really work, unless the word "right" doesn't mean what I think it does.
Here's a good essay about this:
http://libertarian.typepad.com/independent/2003/1
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
CDGoRound.com has been trying to do this in the United States for over a year now, but the C&Ds keep coming. Great to see someone succeed in the UK.
Though, I haven't heard anything in a while, but the last public posting stated that they are looking for legal help on this matter. Any lawyers looking to make a name for themselves?
Quite frankly, with open source material and high speed connections at many libraries, I doubt that trying to convince them to find a way to catalog and loan out open source software is the way to go. Some better steps would be to get rid of, or at least repair, the annoying software they install on their systems so that you could at least download files to a pen drive or hard drive attached to the USB port. Another nice addition would be a CD writer or two in the library (these things are so cheap now they are often "free after rebate" items, certainly a public library could afford a couple). They might even make a modest profit if they also offered blank media at a small cost. This could encourage people to get the open source sofware right for them, not old copies of dated stuff on the shelfs or worse stuck away in a drawer somewhere or "lost".
Of course, I'm not sure that very many people who would use the public library as a source of open source software would not have the high speed access already, but if the original claim is that open source software should be available through the library I think there are better ways to go than to convince them to put a few CD's in their collection.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
We just dropped off about 300 free CDs at the Berkeley Public Library last week (stop by the Info Desk for a copy), during some recent events. As others have pointed out, libraries don't really want to catalog and manage stuff, nor do they want to worry about broken and scratched CDs. So, give 'em a spindle of 100 burned CDs or DVDs and let these discs walk out the door!
There are a lot of challenges to making this work truly smoothly (like the cost of putting a nice label on the CD, and troubles with competing DVD formats that don't always read correctly, and who's willing to burn them), but if the goal is to get content "out there," why bother with lending when it only costs a few cents to just give away a CD?
At Gutenberg, we're trying to start a volunteer-based effort that will let anyone request one of our CDs or DVDs via a Web form, then we'll send it to them by postal mail -- free! For a few hours of volunteers' time per month, and minimal costs (donated or reimbursed), why not!
I think there are a lot of misconceptions about how libraries work and the capabilities of the average public library here. Most libraries are underfunded, staffed by persons without extensive technical skills, initimidated by "community opinion" and beholden to the Gates Foundation (this is not a bad thing . . . the Gates Foundation is A Good Thing that has done wonders for public libraries in our digitially divided society.)
You want to make a positive contribution -- volunteer your tech skills at your local library. Build relationships with your librarians and your community and then start influencing folks. Don't just throw software and rhetoric at your local public library and expect them to handle it.
(I've been working as a technical person in libraries and consulting with libraries since 1986.)
"When I grow up, I'll be stable."
I have seen MANY comments in this thread discussing the concept of donating Linux CDs to libraries.
In the cited articles, the products listed included Freeduc, OpenOffice, Gimp, and others. It was also stated that the software packages were installed and tested on a variety of systems, including Mac OSX, Win9x, Win2k, and WinXP.
OpenOffice, for one, is available for Windows as well as Linux.
This entire article is about OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE. There are OSS products available for non-Linux platforms.
That's all, carry on.
I go to my public library all the time. They have books on stuff I never expected. Ever since I walked in and found someone had donated all the .net core requirement books I just keep goin' back. Now I do live in a city with an area population of 1 million people so you might think circumstances would be different in a small town -- not so, they have an online catalog with all books statewide in stock including ones from local universities and they can ship any book you want to your local branch in 24hrs. I'm pretty most lot of states do this.
I like to be able to read a book so I have the option of not being forced to look at a computer screen at some tutorial.
If you check out a book that has no cd-rom then raise cain about it! I did. I e-mailed them downtown complaining how the books were useless without a cd-rom and they changed their policy. If you bring a book back without a cd-rom now they will make you buy a whole new book to replace it. Not only that, I was chatting with a friend, a local business owner about his shop and it came up that he wished he had more solutions for his guys in the metal work department. I went online and requested a book on CNC Programming for Machinists
(Peter Smid) and they sent me an e-mail about a month later -- they had bought the book and it was ready to be checked out. That's about $80 bucks.
They don't even know who I am, they just know I check out books. I couldn't believe it.
Some libraries may resemble something out of a third world country but who cares. They're a public resource and they respond to your needs. They want your input on how to better spend the publics money.
I know that if someone wrote me and asked for a deep discount on a stack of Knoppix CDs or something, I would certainly oblige.
These discs ship for less than $10 in most cases, and the idea of LUGs meeting at Libraries and having install-fests makes so much more sense.
Plus -- cost and availability isn't really the issue for newbies. Most of my customers probably buy from me because they don't want to have to go through the regular hassle of downloading and burning. For $10, you can have it in 3 days.
Any newbie can walk into any bookstore and and get a getting started guide with a decent distro for cheap. I live in a small town -- I'm regularly hit up in the coffee shop for CDs and I give them out. What do I care? And thank you to my customers -- this is why CD-R vendors shouldn't be villified.
I concur with the spirit of your post. It was once explained to me more like this:
What we call rights must be inalienable, which means they are an inherent part of us and cannot be taken away. Therefore if your "right" to something means you have to take something from someone else, it's not inherently yours, is it? And since everyone's rights are the same, anything that diminishes someone else's rights clearly cannot be your "right".
Constitutionally Correct
And when Mr. Kerr's done with his lending library distros, maybe he can help me with my carrier pigeon project. See, I've heard all the arguments for US mail, FedEx, UPS, messenger services, not to mention email, instant messenging IRC, and the like. But the problem is, those delivery methods just don't reach everybody. See, my idea is, you take these pigeons...
Libraries probably don't have software because of the strict copying licenses. There was a video rental place in my area a few years back that also rented out computer games. They got shut down, probably because of the copying of the games.
warning: This post is likely to contain gobs of dripping sarcasm. Consume at your own risk.
Public libraries are frequently the most parochial in the USA.
... for the purpose of study, use, install, .... Students/community may one day habitually and freely install and upgrade the most current OS/GPL software for personal use.
OS/GPL software has an initial general target audience "The Desktop".
I suggest, in the USA, obtain a LOC ISSN [http://www.loc.gov/issn] listing as an annual "Open Source" software reference on CD/DVD media with an abstract description of a desktop OS Linux distribution with appropriate supporting GPL desktop software for YYYY. Then again a different path may be more appropriate (like a periodical) check under the LOC Cataloging Programs and services [http://lcweb.loc.gov/catdir].
Donations of OS/GPL software references (listed in the LOC catalog) to university and community college libraries, in the USA, may be accepted as a gift to the library and checked out by students, professors,
University students are more likely (I think) to discover value in OS/GPL software, and maybe even request the university library obtain the most up to date releases of the Linux kernel and other OS/GPL applications. Well, where would educational institution libraries obtain free (or media cost) OS products for their shelves and loaning to students?
OldHawk777
Reality is a self-induced hallucination.
Authentic People prefer dominion over the moment, a place, and self.
Authentic People plant seeds of human evolution, destiny, and envy.
Primitives will always enviously try to raze the dream and ideal.
_ Plutocrat Tyrants prefer judicial jeopardy to honorable death.
_ Plutocrat Megalomaniacs prefer death before public recognition.
_ Plutocrat Capitalist prefer a debased public to civilization.
_ Trivial Denizens prefer a sullied public to honorable endeavor.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
Not everyone would want/need software, as many of us at Slashdot might think they do. But most people like music. Of course, a lot of music is not distributable, but there are some bands that do not mind distribution, and many that would welcome the publicity. If many of these are installed around the world, some up and coming bands might want to show their stuff to people. With the demise of mp3.com and the RIAA dictatorship, this could be quite a market. Anyone else think so? Greg
warning: This post is likely to contain gobs of dripping sarcasm. Consume at your own risk.
Author states that it's important to use only pressed CDs for just this reason.
Also, the author is in Scotland and states that broadband penetration is 5 to 10% there, which means 90 to 95% of the population is NOT going to be able to download these in a reasonable manner.
Even in the US, there are large chunks of the population where broadband is not available, even just a few miles out of large cities, sometimes.
What kinds of suggestions would Slashdotters make in addition to Mr. Kerr's to help make open source software on public library shelves a widespread reality?
Here is my idea, and I hearby place it the public domain for all to steal... er... implement.
Put OSS on breakfast food boxes. Seriously. I've seen breakfast cereal boxes with CDs bound to them... games and so forth, so why not OSS? Think about the Wheaties(tm) box, with pictures of athletes on it. Only we put famous OSS programmers on it. Linus, of course, and Larry Wall, and Guido, and... well, grep the sources. Then we include the source disk for their stuff. I propose a modified version of Cheerios(tm) for food content. Only instead of just 0's, we have 1's, too. "Bits" breakfast food.
http://theopencd.sunsite.dk/ Seems like an appropriate 'distribution' for libraries
instead of using bandwith downloading HUGE ISOs of Linux, i can go to the library and borrow the latest distro on CD-R and burn myself a copy, and have it back at the library in a hour...
I am planning to have the public library where I work to put a copy in the CD-ROM collection. Does anyone have an idea about any other open source software that would be good to go in a library, besides OpenOffice and Linux?
Most people don't even know what an operating system -- hell, don't even know what "Windows" is.
A service like this would be of very little appeal and I would imagine the machine hosting this service would start gathering dust and would be used only once every few months.
Basically, it's a waste of time -- the effort would be better spent getting Linux into schools and such.
GnuWin springs to mind.
Powered by onion juice.
I live in australia one of my friends has a really nice broadband carrier. They provide ISO of redhat mandrake debian. For free ie pay by month and downloading of linux don't count on quota.
The tray breakage is simple to fix called a top loader box. Ie get a wood worker to make a box that the tray sides out into stoping hits from below and sides by the box and the top can only be pushed so far down.
The custom software is simple yet effective auto download script using wget or something simpler target to scan the linux directory on a mirror downloading the iso files. Now that is autoupdating system just need to be changed if mirror changes the checking done once a week or month(a month out of date is not that bad) Now all I need is the front end And I am in business.
"The problem with the whole digital revolution is that it allows us to do things on a scale simply never possible before. Sure, it was technically illegal to dub tapes and give them to your friends, or to photocopy a recipe and send it to your mother, but it would never be worth prosecuting simply because of the difficulty in finding people, and the cost of prosecution for such a small return."
The whole digital revolution has also tested the mettle of ethics. When it's easy to be ethical, then people will be ethical. When it's easy to be unethical, then the moral and ethical bonds of a society are tested, and only the strongest will survive that test.
The US, and the world are being tested.
Twenty-one point zero zero zero people sounds like a very small town to me.
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
Seemed like most of the problems cited had to do with resistance to the
medium, as opposed to the content. Why not donate a book instead?
I'm just young enough to remember the late second millenium, C.E., when it was common
for publishers to include a CD in a book as endmatter, with the intent of convincing the potential buyer he was getting something extra with the printed content being sold. In this case the intent is to deliver the software, but one could easily append it to a hundred pages or so of blather regarding the CD's content - using, installing, etc. You might write "Using OpenOffice 1.1" - as usual lots of screen-shots, large type, goofy graphics, wide margins - and just by the way stuff a CD in the back, with all the disclaimers described included in the license agreement that normally accompanies such a disk.
That might be more acceptable to the wary librarian than a CD by itself.
A nearby pub library has Red Hat 6.0 but thats a little out of date. Not that I'm saying trash all the old distos. Because my first was Slackware 3.0 on a 386sx with 4Mb ram.
...what about the Baen books' CDROMs, which have a similar license to copy and share noncommercially?
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
In South Australia, we once got
a local library to buy one of the
low-priced, multi-CD-ROM BERKS sets.
('can't find a URL for the UK-based
guy who published those CD-ROM's)
First, there was the question of
whether the disk-set could even
be housed in a library, where
others might use, borrow them.
They apparently have a central
purchasing department to decide
that, based on the license of the
items under consideration.
It took quite a while to decide
to buy a set or two (for several
library branches); it likely cost
more to make the decision than to
buy & ship the sets they eventually
ordered.
Upon receipt, the CD-ROM were placed into
the (no-loan) Reference section.
It took getting them to eMail the
publishers to get the CD-ROM's
shifted into the Loanables section,
but they were not at all quick or
interested in doing that, or even
accepting the publisher's reply eMail
as a definitive answer to their question:
ie would it be consistent with the IP
owner's license to loan these disks.
At least, now that the smoke has cleared,
we can look back & think that
this library has had a chance to
discover & learn a bit about
Open Source materials.
I dunno for you, but my local library, which I visit from time to time, has a set of non-current SuSE Books, CDs and DVDs from me. The revisor took them gladly as a donation. I consider this an obvious way to empty my bloated bookshelves and do a good deed at the same time. Is this idea so special? What's the big deal?
If you have old distros that are still in good shape and complete, go to your local library and ask if they'd like it for their collection. If they say 'no', sell them at the next garage sale. If thesy say yes and it's a large donation, maybe you can get a year's membership in exchange. People actually do that with books too. It's not that difficult to come up with that idea.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Sorry.. Just to be clear, I was assuming the burn-on-demand model when I wrote my parent post..
Doesn't sound like a good plan to me, more like return to the stone age: a concept like "CD-labeling" has been around for 15 years, and it will be gone in 15 years.
Why bother ?
http://www.theopencd.org
Most people don't even know what an operating system -- hell, don't even know what "Windows"
That might be true but when I go to the library and browse the computer section I see students and other people looking for all sorts of programming topics and other stuff. Granted the public library isn't the very first place I think of when I want a need an up to date book or hard to find topic, but I do go there sometimes.
The only thing really needed is to let the right people know that this particular resource is there and see what the reaction is. Then you'll know if it was a worthwhile endevor.
What if libraries housed open source software on servers and a person could bring in a device such as a laptop or a storage device that can connect to the local network to download files? This could potentially alleviate some bandwidth for people who develop open source software and mirrors (1 download to server, many downloads off the local network). It would also make for faster downloads. There are many ways you could expand on this idea... including, new jobs for experienced sys admins at libraries to monitor downloads to the servers. ;b
In some cases these (award winning) sites might be useful. volunteermatch and meetup Good Luck.
Benefits: CDs last longer (less use = less scratches), modest revenue, could free up shelf space in the future.
Negatives: RIAA, bandwidth usage
The VPL (Yay, Vancouver!) used to have one machine at the central library with two 5.25inch drives and a big stack of shareware for folks to copy and keep. I think I used it once or twice. At the time all I would have cared about were games (maybe BBS's?) so it wasn't all that interesting to me. In hindsight, it might have been a little ahead of the game! FWIW, I think it was a semi-standardized collection of shareware, I might recognize the name of the ... distribution... if I saw it.
.. be very careful to impose anything on libraries The Library staff decides for themselves what is quality and what is not. That's the general rule - otherwise the fine library would be loaded with everything. Not that Open Source Software is of no quality - I have recently discovered how high it actally is. But .. again there are people out there, who value quality on price - so there you have one catch.
As to the distribution - I would recommend that you ask the libraries, if their PC's could not be fitted with OOS - together with the normal software, that money can buy.
One good example is graphical programs, that normally doesn't exist on public library PCs - and if they do, there are just too many of them. So why not advice the librarians to install The Gimp, which is one of the best?
Just a thought early in the morning
Providing free and open source software to the public via libraries would be one way to help libraries remain relevant and integrated into the Information Society. Libraries in the US are clearly looking for ways to re-claim their space as a public commons and a knowledge repository, after decades of budget cuts and cutthroat competition from Barnes and Noble.
Having a FOSS section in the library, staffed by local volunteers, would seem like a no-brainer to me, something that regular stores are not going to provide, except the commercial releases.
I grew up spending much of my youth in my local library, always in danger of exceeding my borrowing limit. If I wasn't there I was home programming on my Commodore 64. I wonder how many of today's young people visit their local library?
It's sad, but the public library where I live wouldn't go for this. Anything donated is not added to the collection of lendable materials as a matter of policy. They sell all donated items at a "Friends Of The Library" sale and then use the proceeds to buy what the library itself deems worthy of gracing its shelves.
Furthermore, they wouldn't want any open source or free software on their computers, either, because they insist on using extensive and intrusive Windows software to monitor/track/record web surfing (and in fact, any computer usage habits), limit and log the amount of time each patron spends on the computer, and tie all that information back to that library card number and individual name. This comes from an organization that has no privacy policy.
Big sticker attached to CD: "library does not provide support, you borrow at your own risk and expense".
What else do a sensible borrower need to know?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
it's http://burks.brighton.ac.uk/
they usually include a linux distro iso with each release.
... but all the signatories of the convention do, this includes most civilized countries (amongst them what some stupid politician called "old Europe" for example, but also "new Europe" and I believe even China).
I ingore if the US did sign(gut feeling: look at Guantanamo, gut says no, I may be mistaken).
The right to education means that there should not be impeded in any way. For example, the Taliban ban on girls education was against the girls human rights.
A country that would forbid parents educating their children at home and abolish public schools (leaving as the only option private, fee charging schools) would also violate the human rights of the children.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I hate to break it to you, and will probably get modded down for saying so, but normal (i.e. non-geek) people do not want this.
Most people don't even know what quantum physics is -- hell, don't even know what physics is.
A bokk like this would be of very little appeal and I would imagine the library shelf hosting this book would start gathering dust and would be used only once every few months.
Basically, it's a waste of time -- the effort would be better spent doing something for the children.
Mode me up as insightful now please.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Who is going to pay for it?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Thank you for your kind words and your accurate critisisms and worries.
I especially like to listen to the concerns of Librarians because that allows me to address those problems and see if there are solutions to those problems.
With all complex problems like this there is only one solution. This being a collection of lots of different and valid solutions.
Please do not dump CDs on libraries, older versions of Linux are of no value to them and all you do is create work. You will also lose their trust.
The best thing to do is to talk and listen to your local librarian and start to understand their reponibilities.
Problems concerning the price of catalogueing, maintenance of a CD is high. I have been corrected an the price is nearer $100 per CD or book. In a small library in remote area's I think this price will be a lot less though. It is here that the value of the information becomes much greater than the price of adding it to the catalogue.
A kiosk is an excellent idea, a machine that created CD's from images, not a CD duplicator, unconnected in any way to the local network or internet. With a very easy way for librarians to control the content. Recommendations of appropriate material from within the Library community on that content is also important. With the Total cost of ownership of such a machine including upkeep the price of catalogueing 10 or 15 books. While giving access to the thousands of books in the Gutenberg project makes this worth while. They will also have the choice to implement this or not.
I donated the CD's but it was always the choice if libraries wished to accept them. I am glad that some did not want them because it proves that my solution was not appropriate for them and they are looking for alternatives. A kiosk may be a much better solution.
Libraries are amazing and wonderful places. I hope they can direct their questions on this issue to the Free Software and Open Source communities so we can find common ground for mutual benefit.
Cheers
Bob
no, i copy a book by half of that.
and it's still a lot cheaper than imported technical books. national authors suck.
And i don't make the copy, i pay for it to be made, so i don't care about time.
And, the priting is always good, don't know what kind of copier you use...
I understand the situation you were in after being in it myself. The CD that I donated was very close to the ISO that is available on the openoffice.org website. The only addition was some extra documents. The important thing was the presentation, A pressed CD, A DVD cover, Liability Statement. These all solve problems for the Librarians. Please read the Howto and I am sure that you will see similarities in your experience. Please take my experience and use it to communicate with your local library and talk to your local Open Source Vendor to see if they can create a trusted supply link for them.
Cheers
Bob
I work for a public library and have recently started a group called "Linux In Libraries" to offer public access computers that have more than just MS Windows. I think this "Open Source CD Lending For Public Libraries" concept could do well.
If you're interested in my group and want to share ideas, please visit http://www.ohio.lib.in.us/staff/atate/lil for details.
IMHO, IANAL, TINLA, etc...