Firefly DVD Set Released

Richard M. Nixon writes "As previously reported the DVD set for Joss Whedon's ill fated Western/Space Opera is now available. The DVD has all 11 episodes that aired, 3 episodes that didn't air, commentary on 7 episodes, and lots of bonus features including Joss singing the Firefly theme. It would make a nice Christmas gift for any Whedon fan who has not already run out and bought it. If DVD Sales are good enough, could we see a second season?"

Comments

Little late?

[DetrimentalFiend]

Wow, this news sure is late for Slashdot. It came out a few weeks ago, I think.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see if firefly sells enough to come back. I heard that fox started thinking about bringing Family Guy back after its DVD sales did so well, so maybe there is a real chance for Firefly.

Re:Little late?

[showler]

It would sell better if the stupid-ass stores had it in stock. It's harder to find the DVD set than it was to find the show when it was on Fox.

Re:Little late?

[DetrimentalFiend]

I ordered my copy a few days ago from amazon and it shipped right away. Should be here by Christmas.

Re:Little late?

[koganuts]

Even Tim Minear, who worked on Firefly, couldn't find the DVDs: "Okay, so I just got back from the virgin megastore here in Hollywood. I was pissed because I felt that the Firefly DVDs should have been proudly and obviously displayed in the new releases. As I was I checking out I mentioned this -- and the guys there told me that the reason I couldn't find them was because they'd sold out almost right away. Saweeet-ah."

Re:Little late?

[Cali Thalen]

I missed the initial Amazon stock (which sold out in...what, hours?). I immediately got on their waiting list though, and my set arrived late last week.

I should have a DVD player by the end of the holidays...and probably a TV some time shortly after that :-)

Re:Little late?

[hudsonhawk]

To their credit, Target not only had the DVD's in their add, they had them prominently located and on sale for $35 dollars.

I rewarded them with my money, and got dvd's in return!

On an side note, these DVD's are everything I'd hoped for. Quality extras, the 3 unaired episodes are exquisite (particularly "The Message"), and the packaging is top-notch.

Re:Little late?

[Our Man In Redmond]

Just FYI, I preordered mine when I first heard about it (August or so) and it arrived on Monday. So it hasn't been out all that long.

It would be nice to see more Firefly, but difficult. The sets have already been struck, and the cast are out on new contracts. However, if the demand is there and the cast could be reassembled, the sets would magically reappear, I'm sure.

Re:Little late?

[__aagmrb7289]

The rumors also say there is a movie in the works.

Re:Little late?

[EvilAlien]

I got mine yesterday! 4 disk, 14 episodes, much Firefly goodness.

AHHHH!!!!

[SillySnake]

features including Josh singing the Firefly theme. Well.. I *WAS* going to go buy it..

Re:AHHHH!!!!

[benk]

is it against the DMCA to use the mute button? :)

Re:AHHHH!!!!

[koganuts]

Well, Joss has a sense of humor about its inclusion:

There's some crazy person singing the theme song, which, I can't stress enough, people should just avoid that particular extra. It was never meant to be heard by anybody. ... Yeah, that'd be me. I threw it down. I was like, OK, I'll just throw it down so they know the chords and then we'll get some great old blues singer to sing it and it will be cool. And they were like, "Let's put it on the DVD." And I was like, "OK." And then I listened to it. I was like, "I must die now [laughs]." I can't stress this enough--not a singer. ... But the embarrassment is outweighed by the fact that I love this show as hard as anything I've loved, and to have it exist on the DVD shelf and in perpetuity is such a great thing for me.

Re:AHHHH!!!!

[James in Iowa]

Its against the DMCA to use a mute button and also to tell people that there is a mute button.

Re:AHHHH!!!!

[Richard M. Nixon]

Interesting reaction.

Perhaps it will prove useful in persuading cooperation while hatching my sinistar plans.

I knew posting this article to slashdot would prove useful.

Muuhahahaha!

(Note: I do have some serious comments in this article.)

Been there, done that

[Rocketboy]

Bought it for my daughter for Christmas a week ago. Looking foreward to seeing the three un-aired episodes.

And to think they took this off and left "Everyone Loves Raymond" on. Now they're wondering why we don't watch TV...

RB

Re:Been there, done that

[phorm]

Bought it for my daughter for Christmas a week ago. Looking foreward to seeing the three un-aired episodes.

She's looking forward to it or you are? Perhaps you both are firefly fans, in which case you might end up trading copies of FF for Christmas :-)

Re:Been there, done that

[Karma Sucks]

Are you one of those guys who buys their mom a basketball? :-)

Re:Been there, done that

[FreeUser]

And to think they took this off and left "Everyone Loves Raymond" on. Now they're wondering why we don't watch TV...

I like Raymond ... anyone with a significant other and/or annoying family members will likely find humor in it. What is appalling is that shows like "Survivor 2" survive, while excellent shows like Firefly get cancelled. I'd never seen the show when it aired (where the hell was their marketing department?), but after watching the entire series back-to-back last weekend I can only agree that it was absolute incompetence on the part of the Media Empire that allowed this one to go by the wayside while inundating the public airwaves with so much utter and complete crap. COPS, Survivor, Blind Date, Elimidate, etc. ad nauseum.

We need some open source movie making (perhaps with Blender and cheap clusters such is just around the corner). Version 0.1 of OurGreatOnlineAnimatedSeries might suck, but by Version 0.8 it'll be the best thing on, beating anything from Hollywood hands down.

Re:Been there, done that

[fuzzeli]

We need some open source movie making

And the forking could be used to create a choose-your-own-adventure film! heh.

Re:Been there, done that

[geekoid]

Yes, there is nothing like a show that completete berates someone of a specific gender, portrays them in the worse light, and they all take it.

If the roles where reversed, womens groups would have had it pulled after the pilot.

it is completely insulting to men.

Re:Been there, done that

[Webmonger]

Bought it for my daughter for Christmas. . .
I hope she doesn't read Slashdot!

Re:Been there, done that

[NanoGator]

"We need some open source movie making (perhaps with Blender and cheap clusters such is just around the corner)."

Why would 'Open Source Movie Making' automatically be better than Hollywood's current trend of designing by committe? Sorry to be pessimistic, but I imagine something very sterile coming out of a project like this.

Now, if you were to talk about letting one guy have the idea and having a group of people work to achieve it, I'd stand behind it. Individual creativity is far more interesting than watching decisions made because "people named Theo might be offended at the title beginning with The".

Re:Been there, done that

[anonicon]

Sorry, but Firefly seemed like such a waste since it replaced Dark Angel in the same Fox time slot. The fact it was cancelled after fewer than 13 episodes kind of confirmed to me that Fox should have used Dark Angel as the lead-in to Firefly, not been /replaced/ with it.

Oh well.

Re:Been there, done that

[deinol]

Now they're wondering why we don't watch TV...

The sad fact is, while there are some shows I really like, I prefer to watch TV when it hits DVD. I would rather spend $40 a month on DVDs than cable. Star Trek, Farscape, Babylon 5, Buffy, Angel, and 24 are some of the many shows I have mostly watched from DVD (ST:TNG I saw mostly as it aired, but DS9 I'm only now catching up on through DVD.)

I only saw the pilot to firefly, but I liked it. I'm looking foward to seeing it now on DVD.

I wonder how many sci-fi shows have poor ratings because geeks like me can't be bothered to actually watch TV with commercials. Will it ever be possible for a series to survive in a straight to DVD format?

Re:Been there, done that

[Chibi]

The thing to consider, though, is that all of those shows you listed (COPS, Survivor, Blind Date, Elimidate, etc. ad nauseum) are reality TV shows which are relatively inexpensive to create. You don't even have to pay for too many actors, since there are so many people who hope to get famous (or infamous as is the case for some) by being on these shows. You don't really have to pay writers, since the show just kind of "happens." Etc, etc... The truth is most people in the game serve the almighty dollar (or whatever your currency of choice may be) first and foremost... which is why we're in the state we are in.

Re:Been there, done that

[Richard M. Nixon]

We need some open source movie making (perhaps with Blender and cheap clusters such is just around the corner). Version 0.1 of OurGreatOnlineAnimatedSeries might suck, but by Version 0.8 it'll be the best thing on, beating anything from Hollywood hands down.

Takes more than software to make a movie. You got special effects, but unless you want to do it all animated you need actors, cameras, sets, sound stages....

They essentially built the ship for the Firefly set. You could walk from one end of the ship to the other. It also made for some very cool long shots (Is that what they're called?) where a character is followed from the kitchen to the hold.

Oh, wait, I read again and I guess you did mean completely animated. It is a good idea. It would be great to have everyone and their grandmother's dogs making anime. However, I would still like to see the genious that the Chu shie fook executes at the Fox network were too Sha gwa to appreciate. Angel is the only good show left on television right now.

Re:Been there, done that

[fingusernames]

I watched some scenes for a reality TV show being filmed at my yacht club. I'd gone there to use the free wifi and have lunch... as I walked up to the entrance, there was a cab letting three women out. There was a guy with a camera, and a woman with a sound boom and satchel, recording. I waited for them to finish and went in. I asked at the desk what was going on, and they said they were filming scenes for a TV show where three divorced guy date some guy who is supposedly rich. They borrowed a member's big-ass power yacht for the show. The crew for this filming was literally those two people. Just two. And the "actors." Even if they paid a decent amount to rent the yacht and for club access, they still are making it soooo cheaply. The annoying thing was the the camera was wireless, probably recording to the satchel the woman wore. Every time they filmed, my wifi died.

Larry

Re:Been there, done that

[david614]

On the same token , we are now *celebrating* season XI of "JAG". As the decline of western civilization accelerates..... D

Re:Been there, done that

[Allen Varney]

We need some open source movie making

You should check out machinima, the making of movies using 3D game engines. You can have actors, costumes, vehicles, sets, lighting, and special effects for free. Most of it so far has been pretty lame, but Red vs. Blue, made with the Halo engine, is hysterically funny and has become pretty successful. (Season 2 debuts at Lincoln Center soon.)

It's not "open source" exactly, but it does put a lot of tools in the hands of would-be indie filmmakers.

Re:Been there, done that

[Obiwan Kenobi]

Now, if you were to talk about letting one guy have the idea and having a group of people work to achieve it, I'd stand behind it. Individual creativity is far more interesting than watching decisions made because "people named Theo might be offended at the title beginning with The".

Dig that last line. Makes me think of when all of those over-sensitive people who asked P. Jackson to change the title of "The Two Towers" to something different because it "just might be offending" those who lost loved ones on 9/11.

Sometimes it's better to just let one guy take the reins and actually, you know, trust him.

Re:Been there, done that

[Rocketboy]

Are you one of those guys who buys their mom a basketball? :-)

Nope. Neither of us care to watch sports. Mom's more into fishing (nope, not me: boring...) Tryig to figure out what to get her for Christmas is something of a problem, though. Still working on it. She's retired, pretty much has what she wants or needs.

RB

Re:Been there, done that

[Rocketboy]

Nah, not her. English major. Daughter #2 might (web designer) but she doesn't know what I'd post under. I don't think she does, anyway.

Years ago when she and son #1 were in high school there was something of a competition to break into my desktop PC through the house network. Kept me on my toes for quite a while! Eventually I turned to encryption to make sure that if they did break in they wouldn't get anything interesting, like account IDs and passwords. They've outgrown breaking my network but I still keep most stuff encrypted, just out of habit.

Rb

Re:Been there, done that

[Rocketboy]

We're both looking foreward to watching it. One copy will be sufficient (for now.) English major = still at home. :) (Of course these days, there are no guarantees of a job regardless of the major. Still, I have to believe that if she'd majored in mathematics like her mom and I thought she should have, she wouldn't have this problem.)

Rb

Re:Been there, done that

[Thing 1]

Why would 'Open Source Movie Making' automatically be better than Hollywood's current trend of designing by committe? Sorry to be pessimistic, but I imagine something very sterile coming out of a project like this.

I actually interpreted it differently: using Open Source to provide a decent infrastructure for movie making. So you could render frames using an "MPAA@home" cluster in as close to real-time as possible. This would allow the creative types to design movies as fast as they could write the scripts and move the "actors" (digitally created, of course).

And people who are good at imitations could record several different "vocal styles" for the computer to chew on, so you could have realistic voices without (I suppose) violating any IP. Or get the actual actors to donate a few hours of their time to reading into a microphone, to help out the cause. Or even pay them, but then the OSS project would require funding.

I completely agree that the creativity is best reserved in the hands of a single person, or small group. But this would not at all prevent people from making edits to what others have published, similar to the people who removed Jar Jar in "The Phantom Edit".

Re:Been there, done that

[Tingler]

They've outgrown breaking my network

Have they really outgrown cracking your computer? Or have they outgrown your ability to detect it? :)

Re:Been there, done that

[xgeoff]

I am shocked that anyone liked this awful show. I am a scifi nut and I couldn't stomach the first two episodes. Did it get better? I thought it didn't cause it was cancelled right away. I don't watch Raymond regularly but on the occasions I've seen it (usually on a transatlantic flight) it has been funny and enjoyable.

Re:Been there, done that

[Hast]

I recon that in many ways that is true. Personally I find the show pretty amusing and don't mind watching it. That could just be because I've developed a sense of humour though.

The world would be a better place if people would stop walking around trying to find things to annoy them and instead being humoured by it.

Re:Been there, done that

[Darren Winsper]

Red vs. Blue was mildly entertaining at best. Hysterically funny, it was not. Most of the jokes were obvious and too in-your-face.

Maybe a movie?

[ChicoLance]

I'm still working my way through the commentary tracks, but this set is nicely put together.

Everybody has gone their separate ways, so we won't see a second season, but at one point in the commentary they said they didn't want to spill all of the beans in case there is a Firefly movie.

But I want to know all of the beans! There were so many good story lines to take advantage of, but were never explained!

Re:Maybe a movie?

[DdJ]

...at one point in the commentary they said they didn't want to spill all of the beans in case there is a Firefly movie...

IMDB says it's in production right now. Looks like they got everyone they needed to participate.

Re:Maybe a movie?

[thegrommit]

For some additional background on the series, Cinefantastique has an episode guide with comments from Joss Whedon and Tim Minear.

Re:Maybe a movie?

[bkhl]

My bet is that Whedon's bean-spilling policy is because he actually has high hopes of making the movie.

The series rocks, btw. It's the only space-adventure show I've truly enjoyed except for Babylon 5.

Josh who?

[Keelor]

If you're going to misspell the creator's name, please don't mention it three times in the article.

Or, you could just get it right and call him Joss Whedon. Either way.

Re:Josh who?

[RatBastard]

Wesley Crusher is producing TV shows now? Wow.

*ducks and runs for cover*

Re:Josh who?

[UserGoogol]

You know, his dad wrote for the Golden Girls and the Electric Company. Yes, you needed to know that.

Joss not Josh

[Shin Dig]

"My days of not taking you seriously are definitely coming to a middle"

Re:Joss not Josh

[Richard M. Nixon]

I'm sorry, I'm the freaking 37th President, and am too busy pulling the strings of GWB and hatching my evil plots to remember the exact name of some pissant TV writer/director/producer (Even if he is one of the very few good thing on TV these days.)

But thanks, I'll be sure to remember his name from now on.

At least I didn't call him Josh Wheaton and ponder if he is related to Wil Wheaton. :)

Looks like the editors have already corrected my mistake. :)

Re:Name?

[Lane.exe]

DING DING DING!

Tell him what he's won, Johnny!

Re:Name?

[BigGerman]

Maybe Josh is his evil twin? From Wester-Space?

So called "editors"...

Insightful?

[Nagatzhul]

Whoa.... Saying it sucked was insightful? More like deluded. Firefly was the best piece of TV to come out in a long, long time. It is too bad that some people were too used to crap to enjoy it.

Re:Insightful?

[Anonymous Coward]

It was an accident. They meant to rate it "Inciteful."

Re:Insightful?

[geekoid]

ITs a show, sompeople won't like it.
But you are right 'It sucked' is not an insightfull comment. If they gace some reason, then it could be insightfull.

Re:Insightful?

[AKAImBatman]

The episode that clinched it for me, after which I stopped watching, was one where these people with plenty of weapons and a huge, technologically advanced space ship had to rob a fricking train.

Except for the fact that the "train robbery" WAS THE FIRST FRICKN EPISODE! Not to mention that it was made in a hurry to please the Fox producers because they didn't want to air the pilot. I'll bet you never even watched another episode.

The truth is that many of the episodes use more technologically advanced settings and have far different story lines than a traditional western.

Re:Insightful?

[JudgeFurious]

Ok, like some others responding to you I have to grant that "it sucked" is hardly insightful.

On the other hand saying someone who didn't like it must be too used to crap to enjoy it is roughly about the same amount of "dumb as fuck" as the guy you're replying to.

Firefly did not do anything for me either. It doesn't mean I don't know good SciFi when I see it. It simply was not my cup of tea. I did see some good things there, I just didn't care much for the show overall. I think Joss got stretched pretty thin about that time and nothing with his name on it was at it's best during the time Firefly was being made and on TV.

*Note: in my OPINION and for the record "my opinion" isn't the last word on anything and I understand that.

Re:Insightful?

[hchaos]

Whoa.... Saying it sucked was insightful? More like deluded. Firefly was the best piece of TV to come out in a long, long time. It is too bad that some people were too used to crap to enjoy it.

After reading the original post, I'm pretty sure it was making fun of all those people who have subsequently posted to tell us how much they hate the show, thus the "There, I just saved about 80% of you from having to post to this article.".

Seriously, if you don't like the show, don't waste your time telling all of us who couldn't care less what you think, especially because these comments are rarely anything more insightful than "it sucked". And save the rest of us from having to scroll through reading "It sucked" 500 times just to read a comment that actually contains something meaningful.

Re:Insightful?

[Demonix]

yeah, but you know what was neat about that episode?

They kicked the baddie into a jet engine. I saw that and was like 'whoa...you can do that on TV? COOL!'

Unfortunately, Like the deertown-hobleville expressway, it proved to be an elusive beast after that point. :(

Re:Insightful?

[CognitiveFusion]

Thank you, someone else out there understands my flavor of sarcasm. I kind of expected this kind of response anyway, but what the heck. I have karma to burn.

Even though I was being sarcastic, I still think firefly was a bad show.

Re:Insightful?

[__aagmrb7289]

Any chance in all hell you'd care to explain why you didn't like FireFly? That's all we want, some chance understanding...

Re:Insightful?

[CognitiveFusion]

Watching Firefly felt like reading one of those old pick-your-path books (turn to page 25 if you want to go here, page 43 to do that... etc.), except that someone else was turning the pages and picking the route. On average it was slow and lackluster; there was nothing new or intriging that made me want to actually set aside an hour to watch.

The plots were hair-thin re-hashes stolen from old westens; the characters are flat stereotypes (hero, doctor, preacher, prostitute, thief, etc...) splashed with a few worn cliches, and the interaction between them was predictable and bland.

I want sci-fi that gets me guessing about character motives and goals, and a plot that is not afraid to twist through more than a few knots or spread across a number of episodes.

Firefly didn't do anything for me except to make me cringe and change the channel.

Re:Insightful?

[__aagmrb7289]

Thank you. Exactly what I was hoping for - at least some reasons for not liking the show. I'll think on what you said.

Re:Insightful?

[__aagmrb7289]

Sorry to hear it. But I do promise to do my best not to repeat that pattern. I mean, I posted to the other guy's comments before yours - I believe that was fair. I didn't try to refute his points - I'm not sure I understand them, and I'm sure I don't agree, but I'm not trying to argue, just trying to get SOME inkling of why people don't like this show, since I'm hardly unbiased.

Too Bad

[adipocere]

While latter-era Buffy and Angel both suffered with Whedon being stretched too thin, the man has a real gift for dialogue, comedy, and story arcs. He's not without flaw, but I'd rather see his worst work than 99% of the shows on the air these days. Any sensible studio executive ("invisible pink unicorn") would say, "Star Trek sucks now ... how about making it work for the fans for once?" I have my as-yet-unwatched Firefly DVDs waiting for the holiday break. I bought them sight-unseen, if that tells you anything about what I think his talent is.

Re:Too Bad

[groman]

Maybe you can explain to me what the hype is about Buffy/Angel? I just seem to not get it. I've tried to watch both of the shows, in reruns and such, and I can't help but shelve it down there with Charmed, Andromeda, Earth Final Conflict, etc. as crap-fantasy. Is there something I'm missing?

Re:Too Bad

[adipocere]

In fact, you are missing quite a bit. Granted, you actually have to watch Buffy from, oh, about the end of the first season on to "get it," Angel you could pass on until the middle of the second season - they require some time investment.

What are you missing out on? Fun, linguistically "hip" dialogue and multileveled jokes. Nod if you get "She makes Godot look punctual." Whedon, being a fool for the Bard, has a lot of references he uses, particularly in regards to names - Cordelia, in King Lear, was a outspoken, blunt princess - not too far off the mark on Buffy. There's in-jokes if you want them.

You want chilly, scary scenes? Try "Hush," middle of season four. Imagine a town that has all lost their voices. Now imagine someone coming for you in the middle of the night to vivisect you ... no screaming that can be heard, just your open, silent mouth while your heart's removed.

Real drama? How about, after battling all of your supernatural disasters, coming home and finding your mother dead of a simple aneurysm, and all of your knowledge and power can't help. Imagine all of your superstrength doing is making your dead mother's ribs snap as you attempt CPR on her chilly corpse.

Moral quandries? How would you cope with a choice between saving the world, killing your sister, or hoping you'd find a way through it? Or find a way to forgive your best friend who cold-bloodedly murdered an evil, possibly deserving person? Theological concerns, actual comedy, real character growth besides puberty, a worthwhile musical sung by the cast, some story arcs which almost reach Babylon 5 lengths, surprises and shocks, etc.

They're ultimately multi-leveled shows. You can get action, cute chicks (Eliza Dushku, mrow!), and some cheap laughs, if that's all you want, with some nifty special effects. You've also got things to think about if you want: moral decisions in a world which is not the clear-cut black and white of most shows. These are shows which actually have something to analyze, check out www.slayage.tv if you don't believe me.

I was captured by Buffy right off - here was a show with more characters to relate to than the meandering X-Files, just as weird as Twin Peaks without having to wonder what the hell Lynch was thinking about when he had the dwarf talking backwards. Its spinoff, Angel, has finally matured into a different, but still good, television series with its own concerns. Watch the first two seasons of Buffy - if you don't get it by then, it's not for you.

But, please ... no Charmed comparison. Borrowing the Love Spit Love cover of "How Soon Is Now?" from The Craft was a bad enough start to the series. Earth: Final Conflict was ... well, I really tried to hook into that series, but I could never bond with the main characters, who were ultimately interchangeable, and the Taelons bugged me ... they made me think of what drag queens would evolve into a few million years hence. I haven't seen Andromeda, so I cannot lay any judgment on it.

goto Target...

[cnelzie]

I love using goto statements...

Anyway, joking aside, I did see a boatload of them on the shelves while out shopping last week... They were right there with all the Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel DVD Sets.

Good luck...

Much Better The Second Time Around

[Dr. Wu]

I have to admit, I wasn't really drawn into the story that much when it was on the air (and I guess I would qualify as a major Whedon fan).

However, I think a major part of the reason for this could have been the poorly chosen episodes that Fox decided to air. I think if the first two episodes in the series had been aired first, rather than last, it would have made a lot more sense to the fans.

The extras are good, the stories are good, and at least in my opinion, it's a lot better than the 'Battlestar Galactica' mini-series. Plus, it has the added advantage of being both inexpensive (especially compared to the Star Trek series), and complete (no other seasons to buy at a later date).

So I recommend it to any Sci-Fi fan, it's a great addition to any collection, especially if you are a Buffy or Angel fan, if only because the commentary by Mutant Enemy veterans (Like Joss), has a lot of tiny insights into those shows as well.

Dr. Wu
Yes, There's Gas In The Car

Why???

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does there always have to be this "1% of the population liked it so bring it back" mentality!?

Granted the US has a bigger problem with pulling good progs that the UK, but people seem to have a short attention span regarding series. For instance, I'd prefer Red Dwarf back more than anything else, but I'd like it sort of how it was around series 3... and that's not gonna happen... things like this naturally fade away, you can't bring them back (Galactica) without incurring the wrath of die-hard fans of the original.

Anyway, my original point; bringing back a series after it's been cancelled is unnatural - it's in the same basket as school reunions. Sort of like "if you got on with people, you'd still know them anyway". Bringing back programmes after they've been cancelled goes against the space/time fabric and is just weird."Bring it back, cos I liked it!" - doesn't really strike me as a good reason. Bring it back because it has promise sounds a hell of a lot better.

So Firefly fans, just buy the DVD, be happy with it, and look forward to the next syndicated, 'we borrowed the Firefly series 2 scripts', space-opera, otherwise you might end up with a Galactica; a sci-fi prog that reminds you how crap the world has become since the 70's. Then, and only then, will you realise how bad it can really get...

Re:Why???

[AKAImBatman]

Actually, Red Dwarf had 8 seasons. Well, really 7 1/2. The eighth ended only a few episodes in, probably because it wasn't much fun any more. It was kind of cool back when they had the entire Red Dwarf to themselves and the computer. But then they went running around in the Star Bug, and the show started to take itself too seriously. (Not good for a comedy.) Then in the eighth season, nanites reconstruct the ship and everyone who was long gone, only to throw our intrepid heros in jail. And how many interesting episodes can you have from JAIL?! It just wasn't fun anymore.

*sigh*

Re:Why???

[David McBride]

"Anyway, my original point; bringing back a series after it's been cancelled is unnatural"

It worked for Star Trek.

Re:Why???

[doormat]

"Anyway, my original point; bringing back a series after it's been cancelled is unnatural"

We can find out for sure next december, when Family Guy comes back to air after it sold 1M+ volume 1 DVDs.

Re:Why???

[Scrameustache]

Anyway, my original point; bringing back a series after it's been cancelled is unnatural [..] Bring it back because it has promise sounds a hell of a lot better.

Ok then:

It was cancelled after airing just long enough to show it had promise, and airing on randomly alternating friday nights at a random time slot, out of order, by showing the pilot LAST, and its still had "ok" ratings!

If your ratings aren't incredible, it might be because you aired the show at 12:20am when you in fact advertised it would be on at 8pm, and not because the show is bad.

That show didn't have a chance. It had more than promised: It proved itself right away, and was cancelled right away.

Have mine

[ericdano]

I have mine. I really liked this show. I think it was doomed because it was on Fox (Fridays at 9pm? WTF), and that instead of showing the intended Pilot, it showed probably one of the lamer episodes as the Pilot.

I think if Fox had decided to show the 2 hour Pilot, it might have lasted longer.

I think the quality of the Episodes got better as the show progressed. I really liked "Out Of Gas" and "Trash" (which was never aired).

Anyhow, maybe UPN or SciFi would pick it up. It was a different show and I enjoyed it.

Re:Have mine

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, how soon they forget.

X-Files was on Friday at 9 pm for many a year. And it thrived very well there.

Re:Have mine

[dorsey]

Firefly had better ratings than X-Files did when it was on Fridays.

Fox was a very different network then with a much smaller market share. Bottom line, they aren't as desperate for viewers as they were then and feel that they can tell people what to watch instead of giving people what they want to watch.

Re:Have mine

[Felinoid]

Firefly had better ratings than X-Files did when it was on Fridays
Why did they cancle it?
If it's got the ratings they can't think the show is unpopulare.

Star Trek may be the show that died and went to heven but Firefly is the show they took out back and shot.

Re:Have mine

[dorsey]

Heh, that's a good way to put it. But like I said, Fox is a different network now.

If X-Files had premired this season on Fox instead of a decade ago it would already be off the air.

If Firefly had been on a smaller network like WB or UPN like Buffy and Angel then it would probably still be on the air and thriving.

Re:Have mine

[Scudsucker]

Why did they cancle it?

My theory is it's because they aren't interested in producing long running, successful shows anymore, because reality tv is not only popular, but cheap cheap cheap to produce. Why pay the cast of Friends a million a piece per episode, where Survivor pulls in the same kind of ratings and ONE contestant gets A million dollars for the entire YEAR?

FOX has gone from becomming a network with some cool, edgy shows, like Simpsons and X-Files, to the Get Rich Quick network.

Re:Have mine

[dorsey]

Except for the fact that FOX did not produce Firefly, Mutant Enemy did

I don't think that's the way things work in tv. Mutant Enemy are the people who are in charge of the creative aspects of the show, but Fox still owns the show because they put up the money and resources to actually make it. Buffy and Angel are also both owned by Fox. That's why Buffy jumped from WB to UPN, because Fox demanded more money from WB to continue airing. WB wasn't prepared to put up the cash, but UPN was. The situation isn't the same with Firefly because Fox was airing the show on their own network instead of selling it to someone else. I imagine that Fox surreptitiously had a hand in making sure no other network picked up Firefly. Look at it from a network exec's POV. If another network picked it up and it flopped, it wouldn't have been worth the time and effort to negotiate the contract. But if it succeded on another network then the Fox execs look like morons for dumping a successful show. It's lose-lose for them.

Re:What's so good about Firefly?

[grub]

I saw a couple of episodes. They go something like this:

Hero: Howdy, miss. What's th' problem?
Damsel: That evil Mr. Villian tied me to the railway tracks until my Pa gave 'im the deed to our ranch!
Hero: Why that good-fer-nuttin.. let me get my laser blaster from my space ship and tan his flea-bitten hide!

watched disc 1 last night

[jgilbert]

I got disc 1 from netflix. I had actually caught a bit of what I assume was the first episode, "Serenity", when it first aired and wasn't that impressed. However, after watching the 3 episodes last night I would say that I really liked it. Maybe it's the lack of commercials every five minutes disrupting the flow. It was still a bit annoying with the obvious cuts to/from commercials, but at least you didn't have to wait for the actual commercial (most annoying was cuts to black and then right back to the exact same scene).

Is it just me or would regular TV greatly improve if they would revert to a PBS style sponsors message and the beginning and then let you actually watch the damn show without interruption every few minutes. I don't mind commercials, what I mind is having my attention yanked around every five to ten minutes from what I care about to something I have absolutely no interest in.

jason

Re:watched disc 1 last night

[PCM2]

Is it just me or would regular TV greatly improve if they would revert to a PBS style sponsors message and the beginning and then let you actually watch the damn show without interruption every few minutes.

I expect they'll actually start doing this very soon now, especially for "much anticipated series premieres" and so forth. It's a good way to rope in the viewers. (In fact, didn't they already do this with the season premiere of 24?)

The downside? Forget commercials -- you're now going to see more and more products integrated into the shows themselves. Picture an entire episode of Seinfeld where Kramer hears on the news that the union drivers who distribute Coca-Cola are on strike, and he travels to Connecticut to buy a can of Coke. (Hilarity ensues.)

Re:watched disc 1 last night

[Babbster]

I have no problem with product placement when it's done right. In fact, if Kramer and Newman had been guzzling Coke (or Pepsi, or whatever) instead of "generic" soda in the refund episode, it wouldn't have been out of place at all.

The idea that such placement would be worse than separate annoying commercials is just silly to me. After all, they've still got to make the shows entertaining (to someone), even with the product placement, or nobody will watch.

Re:watched disc 1 last night

[PCM2]

After all, they've still got to make the shows entertaining (to someone), even with the product placement, or nobody will watch.

Uhhh -- yeah. Like most people watching TV in the United States are really enjoying what's on the box already. Everybody has a couple of favorite shows, but pretty much everybody watches a whole lotta crap too, because there's just "nothing else on." This is only going to make television even worse.

A movie is in the works

[Keith Mickunas]

Or so I've heard from a couple of sources and it's listed on IMDB. So it looks like there will be more. Personnally I can't wait, I really enjoyed the show and would like to know what happened.

Worth the Bucks

[Dr. Smeegee]

Very very fine. I saw just a bit of the show when it aired and was intrigued. Truly a darn shame that it was not picked up for further seasons. The only episode that really really reeked was about the level of a really good episode of "Stargate SG-1"

I really like the fact that things in space make no sounds! ... although someone should tell Joss that a regular bullet would work in a vacuum.

Re:Worth the Bucks

[hchaos]

Well, it would if you could figure out how to set off gunpowder/cordite... in a vacuum...

For all of you who don't know anything about explosives, explosives are generally self-oxidizing, meaning that they work without exposure to atmospheric oxygen. It's this characteristic that gives them their explosive properties.

Re:Worth the Bucks

[Tmack]

The primer cap(thing the hammer strikes to start the main charge) is a percussion sensitive compound, similar to picric acid or more commonly the stuff in "Snap-N-Pops". This compound has oxygen in it, or some other similar molecules that react and release alot of heat. This in turn de-stabalizes the powder of the main charge. Older guns and cannons used black powder, a crude mix of charcoal (carbon) and saltpetre (sodium/potassium nitrate) and a little sulphur. When heated, the nitrate (NaNO3) releases oxygen (O2) to cumbust the Carbon (C), resulting in CO2, various sulphur by-products, alot of heat and rapidly expanding gas.

See: This page for the quote: Oxygen from the atmosphere need not be present for smokeless powder to burn, as the compounds that comprise it carry enough oxygen within them to support the burning. In fact, it burns inefficiently when in the open producing a considerable amount of smoke as well as residue. However, when burned in a shell casing under pressure, it produces little smoke or residue and is very efficient.

In a vaccume, there would be less back pressure on the outside of the bullet, meaning it would actually accelerate faster, and without friction from air and gravity to slow/re-direct it, it could go much further and much more accurately at a much higher top-speed (no Mach numbers to worry about, vaccume has NO speed of sound).

Tm

p.s. if the first post was a troll or just sarcasm, it was a poor attempt and had no bite to it.

Easter Egg

[hero]

There is an easter egg of Adam Baldwin (Jayne) singing the whole "Hero of Canton" song from Jaynestown on the dvds.

Throw in disc four that has the special features menu on it, and I think it's on the second special features menu. You just have to highlight the bottom left option and hit left again, and it will highlight a little thing on the side. Sorry I can't be more precise I don't have the info handy, it's not too hard to find with a minor bit of fiddling.

-hero.

Re:Easter Egg

[Tom Rothamel]

An easier way to get to it is to go to the second special features menu and hit the '6' key on the DVD remote.

Jayyynee!!! The man they call Jayynee!!!
He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man and he gave him what for,
Our love for him now is hard to explain,
The Hero of Canton, the man they call Jayynee!!!

Re:Easter Egg

[Jethro]

*lol* he's such a dork. It's hillarious. I love the Jayne character... it's so... NOT the usual tough guy NOR dumb guy.

I do like how he screws up the lyrics though (:

That's what we have the internet for!!

[Thud457]

"Why does there always have to be this "1% of the population liked it so bring it back" mentality!?"

Just make more episodes and sell DVDs on ebay!

Re:WHAT?

[Justin205]

Science Fiction = News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters
DVDs = News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters
Wanting to bring back cancelled sci-fi series = News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters

Therefore...

Firefly DVD Set Released = News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters

A Word of Caution

[ion_ash]

In the last week I've watched the first 2.5 discs, rented from netflix. I'm assuming I'm the first netflix customer to view the discs that I'm watching, firstly because they've only been out a short time, and secondly because the disc surfaces are still visually pristine.

I noticed some strange behavior in the first 2 discs when navigating the menus, it seemed like the video would freeze inter-frame in a way I found highly distracting, but it didn't affect the playback of the episodes. I began watching the 3 disc last evening and it seemed even more glitchy than the first 2. Glitchy to the point of trying it on multiple DVD players (Playstation 2, and a Pioneer) to be able to even WATCH the episodes.

Not being an expert, I can't say what it is exactly that's causing these problems, but I'm inclined to believe it's either:

• A) Poor Quality Control in the production of the discs, or
• 
  B) Poor Mastering.
  or possibly
  C) Secret Government Postal Facility Beams
  (I'm leaning toward the mastering)

Don't let this stop you from watching a show that by all rights SHOULD still be on the air (and was better than anything else FOX chose to show us instead... when will they ever learn that Friday nights are DEATH for new shows?) I think the show has it all: Good production values, excellent writing, humans in space (but no space monsters, just humans)

GREAT!

Re:A Word of Caution

[BigZaphod]

Actually, it is "Secret Government Postal Facility Beams." They only want you to *think* it's poor mastering.

Seriously, though... I got the DVD set and have watched the entire series already. I only had one glitch someplace on the 3rd disk where I had to fast-forward past a small bit of dialogue at the beginning of Trash in order for it to not jump back to the start of the episode. I just assumed it was maybe a minor scratch or perhaps a hair or something fell under the disc when I dropped it in the player. Didn't notice any other problems with playback.

UK doesn't get the DVD set...

[rklrkl]

It looks like this DVD set is a Region 1-only release - hardly surprising it's not available in the UK since only the little-watched Sci-Fi Channel aired it here (and directly up against various clashing progs I watch on other satellite channels plus having the dubious Sci-Fi logo in the corner of course). Still, I've ordered it from DVD Soon (20 pounds, which isn't bad for a 4-disc set shipped from Canada to the UK) and just got the confirmation e-mail that it has indeed just been dispatched...

Re:UK doesn't get the DVD set...

[Dicky]

Me too!

Got it from DVDSoon, got the confirmation mail last night... Oh, and Hi! I used to be u5rmc@csc in a previous life...

Re:What's so good about Firefly?

[AKAImBatman]

1. Excellent characters
2. Amazing story development
3. Best special effects, bar none
4. A space captain who isn't a wus. (e.g. In the pilot, a bad guy is holding the teenage girl captive while evil space cannibals are approaching. The captain arrives in the middle of the hostage situation, and instead of negotiating, he - without missing a step - simply shoots the guy, picks up his body and throws it out the rear cargo entrance so they can take off.)
5. NO FSCKING "techno babble". No bloody deflector dishes, transporters, hyperspace gizmos, exotic particles, gravity wave engines or anything else.
6. No sound in space.
7. Soft title music that gets stuck in your head and won't let go.
8. An interesting back-story. (e.g. the episode "Out of Gas")
9. You can't take the sky from me...

Go to suprnova.org (no typo) and download "Our Dear Mrs. Reynolds". You'll be hooked, I guarantee. :-)

Me too

[gmhowell]

Surprised this wasn't already mentioned. I was going to do a review for slashdot, but whatever.

Good stuff. Good dialog, good characters, good stories. You can see the threads that Whedon was going to build up and play out emerging, particularly the second time through.

So far, I've only made it through 1.5 discs (about 6 episodes?) and have only some mild complaints. First, the swearing is as lame as it was in Farscape. Second, the commercial breaks are very obvious. Looking at most of them, it would take very little to make the transitions a little smoother. Purists would probably object. Some episodes seem to just 'stop'. While in the larger scheme of things that would work, as episodic TV, it doesn't.

And one of these days, I will figure out whether Inara or Kaylee is hotter. A modern day Ginger vs. MaryAnn. (Yes, this is what a recent JE of mine is about, complete with linkage). At least Mal is hotter than the Professor for the ladies:)

Re:Me too

[SquadBoy]

Inara

Re:Me too

[sTalking_Goat]

Inara might be hot, but there is something special about a woman who can diagnose the engine problems of a ship she never seen before while on the floor on her back getting plowed...

Re:Me too

[Anonymous Coward]

First, the swearing is as lame as it was in Farscape.

In Farscape, they used made-up words with the incredibly stupid conceit that the words weren't being translated by the "translator microbes." (For the love of god.)

In Firefly, the writers wrote out the lines in English, then had a consultant translate them into Mandarin Chinese, which the cast learned phonetically. Their piss-poor pronunciation was explained away by saying that the pronunciation of Chinese had evolved over the past five centuries.

Lame? Hardly. To the contrary, it was actually incredibly well thought-out. Besides, you get a free Chinese lesson while you watch. Nee boo gai kai nee duh hwang chiang.

Re:Me too

[SquadBoy]

This is *way* OT. But I loved Altered Carbon and I'm now trying to find a copy of this.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/05 75 073241/104-2998875-8831944?v=glance

Re:Me too

[JonMartin]

And one of these days, I will figure out whether Inara or Kaylee is hotter.

Clearly a Slashdot poll is needed.

(I'd vote Kaylee)

Re:Me too

[sTalking_Goat]

OT again but since /. doesn't seem to have a PM feature...

your link doesn't work but if you're talking about Morgan's other books they aren't available in US yet, maybe that'll change when they start making the Altered Carbon movie. For now your only recourse is ordering them from Amazon.co.uk, which I'm going to do when I order my textbooks next year.

Re:Me too

[silentmusic]

>Nee boo gai kai nee duh hwang chiang.

Too bad they didn't use pinyin.

Ni bu ...

Re:Me too

[Hast]

He was commenting on the parent of his post's translitteration of Chinese. (Which wasn't Pinyin.)

Official Firefly Board

[eforhan]

In case anyone would like to discuss DVD's or Firefly in general:

http://forums.prospero.com/foxfirefly

This was the official Fox board, and is now run by Mutant Enemy.

Re:What's so good about Firefly?

[thegrommit]

What's so good about it? I've never seen an episode, so would someone care to enlighten me?

It's a sci-fi show that isn't. It doesn't feature grand space battles or bumpy headed aliens of the week. Instead it has great dialogue, character development, a tight-knit cast, and *gasp* continuity. Contrast this with Star Trek.

Re:Ill fated?

[Yobgod Ababua]

"...but no one can be bothered to do a good science fiction series."

What are your criteria for a science fiction series to be "good"?

Personally I thought Firefly was an excellent series. It had interesting characters with complex motivations and interactions, good pacing, beautiful sets, gratuitous violence, and an intriguing and believeable universe. I'm somewhat baffled as to how anyone could seriously characterize it as "juvenile Saturday morning" given all of these elements.

If you're not just a troll, perhaps you'd like to discuss this further?

Firefly

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard that Firefly was going to be a western in space. Sure enough, when I watched the first episode, it was about the gang robbing a train, western style. I thought my worst fears were realized as this is the type of science fiction I hate most.

Take any western and change the indians to aliens. Changes the horses and stagecoaches to spaceships. Presto! You have instant sci-fi. I felt that way through exactly one episode. By the third one, I was hooked on an amazing show.

It looks to me like someone at Fox wanted to sink the show. You run it on Friday night (kiss of death), show the worst episode first, and then don't bother to show the first episode until much later in the season.

Re:Firefly

[Decaff]

I never got past the 'Western in space' problem. Great actors, good stories, but why bother with the spaceships? The combination of hi and lo tech just looked silly - it was like ... spaceships landing in the wild west and being met with men on horses. It was an inconsistent and totally implausible view of the future. I'm a real Joss Whedon fan, but Firefly sucked.

Re: Firefly

[Black Parrot]

> I never got past the 'Western in space' problem. Great actors, good stories, but why bother with the spaceships? The combination of hi and lo tech just looked silly - it was like ... spaceships landing in the wild west and being met with men on horses. It was an inconsistent and totally implausible view of the future.

Less plausible than the usual fare, where heros scoot around the galaxy fighting monsters that have evolved to seduce starship captains and eat their ships?

Re:Firefly

[Richard M. Nixon]

AC Wrote: Take any western and change the indians to aliens. Changes the horses and stagecoaches to spaceships. Presto! You have instant sci-fi. I felt that way through exactly one episode. By the third one, I was hooked on an amazing show.

Well, there were no overt aliens in the show. In the commentary I think Joss said that there were aliens, but they were not out in the open. One of the unaired shows a PT Barnum type character charging admission to see a genuine alien, which in reality is just a mutated cow fetus.

It would have taken off a lot better if they had started with the original pilot. Besides being a good introduction to the main cast, it was also a much better episode. But the network didn't want to start with the original pilot, so they gave Joss & Co a weekend to write a replacement pilot episode.

Decaff wrote: The combination of hi and lo tech just looked silly - it was like ... spaceships landing in the wild west and being met with men on horses.

The idea was that The Aliance and the super rich had access to high technology. The poor either lived in shanty towns on high-tech planets, or could be shipped off to planets that had just been terraformed with nothing but blankets, as they said in the show.

It costs lots of money to ship high tech equipment to other planets, to say nothing of the cost of production. But you ship just a few horses and you can get lots more horses from those. The advantage that horses have over hovercraft is that hovercraft cannot reproduce.

It was an inconsistent and totally implausible view of the future.

I disagree, the view of the future was that technology is not going to solve the social problems of today. In all likelyhood we will still have problems of the haves and the have nots.

Also, the X-Files angle they were doing with River which was just starting to get interesting when the show was canceled.

Re:Firefly

[vandemar]

The combination of hi and lo tech just looked silly - it was like ... spaceships landing in the wild west and being met with men on horses. It was an inconsistent and totally implausible view of the future.

Perhaps you should go see Star Wars again. In a galaxy of high tech laser blasters, the Tusken Raiders used still used bullets. Just because technology has advanced a great deal doesn't mean that everyone has access to it.

As for horses, they would be very handy in a place without an abundant supply of oil or uranium for fuel, like those colonies on the outer planets, for example. Animals find their own fuel, repair and reproduce on their own, are able to return to home base autonomously, and have built-in safety mechanisms that prevent them from say, running off a cliff. Plus, they can come in handy in some other tight spots--again from Star Wars, anyone remember those Tontons?

"The idea that they may have invented cool lasers but not everybody can afford them is sort of the premise on which we work. Lasers take you to a science-fiction place that I feel has been covered too much." - Joss Whedon

Re:Firefly

[JonMartin]

Just to nitpick, Firefly was not strictly a Western, but rather a metaphor for the post-Civil War Reconstruction era of the United States. It's just that most Westerns are set in the same time period. Reynolds and Zoe are ex-Confederate soldiers, the Feds are the Union army, the outer systems are the western territories, Reavers are the savage Indians (as they were viewed at that time), etc., etc.

Re:Firefly

[Chanc_Gorkon]

Amen to that. It just reminded me about Wild, Wild West with Will Smith. The only thing good about that movie was the remake of the Wild, Wild West song and even it was not great.

Re:Firefly

[Cyno01]

Actually on the dvd in the special feature, they said they designed serenity as a cross between a bird and an actual firefly.

Re:Firefly

[mpe]

Unlike our worls where people use Oxen to draw their ploughs instead of nice Massey-Ferguson or John Deer tractors for example?

Well these companies have yet to develop self-repairing and self-fueling tractors. Let alone those who's "exhaust" acts as a fertilizer.
In the case of serious damage or breakdown there is a lot more meat on an ox than a tractor.

Unaired...

[Motor]

Unaired episodes? Awwww... poor Americans, haven't you seen the entire series yet? For what it's worth, the UK SciFi channel has shown it two or three times already. In fact, the SciFi is having a "Firefly" weekend (next weekend, I think... their site is appalling, but I saw it advertised) in which they show all the episodes... again... muahahaha.

Re:Unaired...

[Embedded Geek]

Sounds like Mutant Enemy picked the wrong network and the wrong continent for Firefly. Drop me a line if Joss starts the series up again just for the UK. I may consider emigrating.

Not all that good.....

[chadm1967]

I'm sure I'm probably alone in saying this, but......I didn't think it was all that good.

Re:Not all that good.....

[Embedded Geek]

Not to flame (honest!), but what didn't you like about it? I've always been a pushover for clever dialog and intelligent characters (ro, what I percieve as clever and intellignet), so I suspect I've been watching with rose colored glasses. My wife (a fellow geek) sat politely next to me when I played a marathon session with the DVDs last weekend, but she couldn't (wouldn't?) explain why she wasn't as enthused as I.

I'm legitimately curious, so please let me know.

P.S. A quick scan of the posted comments shows that you are indeed the only one with enough guts to speak your mind. Kudos for not using the A.C. button.

Re:Not all that good.....

[JudgeFurious]

I'm not the original poster (obviously) but I also found it not all that good. It wasn't "all that bad" either though. I've been trying to figure out why I didn't like about it or what threw me since I watched it but I was out after three episodes. My wife (both of us watched the hell out of Buffy and still watch Angel) was the same way.

The dialog didn't grab me the same way the better writing on Joss's other two shows did (admittedly not every episode has/had "better writing") and I never warmed up much to the characters. I thought the effects were very well done though.

That's what happened when I watched it. Why is still something I'm trying to figure out. I'm thinking about renting the DVD's (or possibly even buying them) to give it another shot.

I know one thing that's maybe got something to do with my not going for it. It's superficial so maybe I can get past it but I absolutely despise damn near every western ever made. The one that comes to mind that I like was "Unforgiven". I think the western "feel" to the series probably made it tough for me to jump onboard. Maybe if it had stayed on the air a season or two I might have come around and given it another look.

Re:Not all that good.....

[Scrameustache]

I'm sure I'm probably alone in saying this, but......I didn't think it was all that good.

You're right, it wasn't all that good.

It was mostly mind-bendingly great, insanely witty, well done, clever, intelligent, scary, touching, funny, and engrossing, but it wasn't all that good.

The first episode they aired (The Train Job), was the worst of the bunch. Why they would choose to use that instead of the awsome pilot to introduce us to the show, especially after hyping the "girl in a box" the entire summer... than can only be explained with profound stupidity, or deep-rooted evil. Take your pick.

Re:Not all that good.....

[Scrameustache]

I've been trying to figure out why I didn't like about it [...] The dialog didn't grab me [...] I absolutely despise damn near every western ever made.

Well, you awnsered your own question.

You hate westerns, its a space-western. Joss wanted to capture the western feel, the frontier, the adventure, all those things you hate, and make a sci-fi show with that frontiering feel.

At least you are honest about why you didn't like it, both to yourself and to others.

All I can say is that, had you managed to move past your misgivings, you would have been watching the best show to come on TV for years, possibly decades, maybe ever.

I recommend the episodes "Out of Gas", "Ariel" and "Objects in space" (in that order), the more scifiish / least westernish of the first run.

You'll still have the clothes and lingo gritting your sensibilities, but the themes aren't about cowboy issues: No cows, no corals, no horses, just good ol' sci-fi at its best.

Re:Not all that good.....

[Embedded Geek]

Thanks for the reply. I too saw only about three episodes (are we begining to see the pattern that killed the series?) and came away posative, but not ecstatic (perhaps the inverse of your reaction?). Perhaps it was guilt that made me run out and buy the DVDs, but I was glad I did. There's only two episodes I was lukewarm on and only one that I consider a real stinker. That's saying a lot when you look back at season 1 of ST:TNG or most SF series.

Since you weren't gung ho in the first place, I recommend renting the DVDs instead of buying, though. Better yet, wait until January and borrow the set from a fellow geek. It's not like there's any real chance of the series coming back and viewing in a timely manner would help you view the next season.

Re:Ill fated?

[druiid]

I wouldn't go as far as calling B5 very good. There were good episodes, but the show itself kinda sucked... a lot, in some cases. I never really saw what people liked so much about the show.. same humanoid looking aliens as Star Trek, etc. Personally, I think the Star Trek aped version of B5, Deep Space 9 was in some ways better.

Can't find the Season 2 .torrent!!!

[teamhasnoi]

hehehe. I probably will save my $$ for Farscape on DVD, as I never saw an episode. That says something about its placement as our TV is on 24/7.

Why the SciFi network doesn't pick it up and replace "Gorgol: The Betrayal", "Extreme Black: The Evil Within" and their other crappy shows with colons in them - I do not know.

Re:Can't find the Season 2 .torrent!!!

[jmelloy]

Firefly is WAAY cheaper on DVD than Farscape.

$35 (from Amazon) gets you the entire series of Firefly (14 eps)

$25 gets you 4-5 eps of Farscape.

Farscape was one of my favorite shows, and I enjoyed Firefly for the same reasons I liked Farscape.

Re:Can't find the Season 2 .torrent!!!

[Cyno01]

Little more than a hundred bucks'll get ya a season of farscape on amazon. Season 1 . Season 2.

Re:Name?

[TrippTDF]

The best part is, everyone in the comments is calling him Josh, too.

IMDB says it's in production right now.

[runlvl0]

IMDB says it's in production right now.

"In production" can mean a lot of things... according to Whedonesque, "Joss Whedon hints that the movie has still a very long way to go before it gets made. "If I start talking about it before there is [anything definitive to say], it lessens the chance that [it will get made]."

Like a shining jewel

[Blackbrain]

I watched the entire set last weekend and the episodes just got better and better. I think the the pressure of working on a series that was threatened with cancellation from the pilot on really inspired everyone involved to put in 110% effort. I don't know if we will ever see a movie or another series of Firefly, but that just makes what we do have more precious. If you haven't seen it, beg, buy, or borrow this series. You won't be dissapointed.

Firefly was a late bloomer

[curtlewis]

I rented the disks from Netflix because I'm a big Buffy and Angel fan after having got into both series years after they debuted. I never even heard of Firefly until after it was cancelled.

So I rented it just to see what all the hub bub was about. As I watched the first two parter, I was thinking, no wonder this got cancelled, it's kinda boring. But I forced myself to finish watching the rest of the disk.

I'm glad I did. I found that I started to care what happened to each character as I watched more episodes. While I was indifferent at first, by the time I wrapped up Disk 4, I was almost solemnly putting the disk back in its sleeve to mail back to Netflix.

It's a good show and worth giving it the time to win you over. Too bad Fox didn't do that. I don't think it'll come back as a series again, certainly not on Fox, but they are working on a movie (probably TV movie).

So what's the deal about good SciFi shows getting cancelled? Farscape was a fantastic show, certainly worthy of more seasons. I think Firefly had some longevity to it, too. Just think, if they hadn't given Buffy more than 13 episodes... There'd be no Witchblade, no Dark Angel, no Bird of Prey, no ActionSciFi Show with buttkicking chicks!

Asd they say, it takes money to make money. Be willing to give these shows a chance!

Re:Firefly was a late bloomer

[sTalking_Goat]

...no Bird of Prey

thats not a very compelling arguement...

Re:Firefly was a late bloomer

[Stray7Xi]

So what's the deal about good SciFi shows getting cancelled? Farscape was a fantastic show, certainly worthy of more seasons. I think Firefly had some longevity to it, too. Just think, if they hadn't given Buffy more than 13 episodes... There'd be no Witchblade, no Dark Angel, no Bird of Prey, no ActionSciFi Show with buttkicking chicks!

Sci-Fi shows take more in the way of special effects, and so are more expensive. (which is why they often cut corners on actors) The question I have is why isn't the Sci-Fi channel actually playing Sci-Fi. All I ever see when I flip to it is some horror or monster movie. Just cuz a laser creates a giant man-eating platypus doesn't make it sci-fi.

FWIW, for So Cal Slashdot readers...

[koganuts]

Joss Whedon and several members of the cast and crew are scheduled to appear at the LA Comic Book and Sci-Fi Convention (yeah, the convention will be full of geeky fans, but check the list of past convention guests and you have to admit that it's pretty damn impressive, and the admission price of $7.50 can't be beat either) this coming Sunday to promote the DVD, and Fox will have them there for sale for $25.00:

Joining JOSS on stage at 1:00 P.M. will be TIM MINEAR (Writer), BEN EDLUND (Writer-also creator of THE TICK Comic Book), Stars NATHON FILLION (CAPTAIN MALCOLM "MAL" REYNOLDS), GINA TORRES (ZOE), ADAM BALDWIN (JAYNE), RON GLASS (BOOK "THE SHEPHERD"), and MORENA BACCARIN (INARA). Fox Home Entertainment will have GREAT PRICES on DVD's at their table at the Convention! Fox will have the FIREFLY COMPLETE SERIES DVD COLLECTION on sale for just $24.99. They will also have BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER Season One-Five for $34.99. ANGEL Volume One and Two will be on sale for $34.99. X-2: X-MEN UNITED will be on sale for $14.99, and X-FILES DVD's will also be on sale.

It'll be interesting to hear his thoughts on the TV series, on FOX network execs, the DVDs, and the upcoming movie project (which contrary to recent reports, has a very long way to go). Plus if you go, you'll have a chance to rib Joss on singing the theme song. :)

Re:FWIW, for So Cal Slashdot readers...

[JonahLee]

Yea, though the $20 ticket that gets you assigned seating in the front sounds like a much better deal, too bad they say you need to be there around 8:00 AM to have a chance at getting one of those tickets! That lets you not have to sit from 10:00 AM till 1:00 PM when Joss and the rest come on stage.

Ah well, at least I have my iPod, so I can sit in line, read a book, and listen to my music!

Re:Ill fated?

[MysticGlyph]

How strange... I am a huge sci-fi fan, have been since birth I figure. In my opinion the two worst sci-fi shows ever aired on t.v. were Babylon 5 and Andromeda, the two shows you seem to think are better than Firefly. Firefly was/is a friggin great show, I loved it when it was on Fox. I never could watch the bubblegum sci-fi-pop garbage hurcules crap Andromeda ...pink space chicks ...neat-o, and Babylon 5 just kept me drowsy enough to enter a deep coma for an hour at a time. Its funny how our opinions of what good sci-fi is differs so widely isnt it?

This xmas, FIGHT THE MAN!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Dad, you're so lame, you support a corrupt system that attacks its supporters!"

Re:This xmas, FIGHT THE MAN!

[JonMartin]

That site is a joke, right?

Sort of. This is its parent site.

Damn funny though.

Re:What's so good about Firefly?

[AKAImBatman]

You're the same troll who complained about the "train robbery" (thus betraying the fact that you never actually watched another episode) aren't you?

Firefly was sci-fi that dared to be political...

[Anonymous Coward]

and politically incorrect. Go ahead and mod this post as flamebait, because here's a short excerpt from an opinion piece about why Firefly was really cancelled. Link appears after the excerpt:
______________________________________

"Firefly's greatest transgressions against the modern American Statist Quo, however, were in my estimation twofold and related...this was not the mindlessly smarmy "optimistic" vision of the future that is Star Trek...Firefly, in its way, was, in this post 9-11 climate, almost downright seditious. The Alliance enforcers--the "bad guys"--were called "Feds." The attempt to unite and homogenize people was seen, by Firefly, as not a "good" thing...nor do most people agree with Captain Reynolds' words, "The government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned."...Do not think that Firefly was not drawing allusions and parallels to our own society and its attendant beliefs, or that this implicit criticism went unnoticed by the powers-that-be...But most of all, living "beyond the law" as Reynolds and his crew had to, the moral universe of Firefly depended not on the "rule of law," but on its much-maligned and deliberately-misunderstood alternative, the rule of honor...And Firefly made the case...for the ultimate superiority of the rule of honor over the rule of law--at least...For you see, the rule of honor demands what law must defer: individual responsibility, personal culpability, what is fair and what is just, of every man (and woman) who lives by it.
_________________________________
http://www .fireflyfans.net/feature.asp?f=39

Re:What's so good about Firefly?

[Jonathan_S]

>Although I could drone on and on for much time about the show having no laser blasters

There were at least two laser blasters. The one carried by the villain in 'Heart of Gold' and a second one in 'Trash' that was mentioned again in 'The Message'. To be fair these were the unaired episodes...

Un-aired episodes a let down

[Anonymous Coward]

I watched every single aired episode of Firefly when it was broadcast. The reason that's amazing is because I haven't had "TV" for years. I actually contracted with a co-worker to record them for me. I wanted it that bad.

And I wasn't disappointed..not at all. It delivered everything I wanted it to be. Best series on TV in decades.

I pre-ordered my DVD set the first day it was available at Amazon (months ago). I finished watching the whole thing 2 days after I got it. (working days even)

I cried during the special features when the cast and crew talked about how they felt about the show...cried because the show was gone.

I loved every episode..probably more the second time than the first time.

If there was a problem, (and I think it might have actually been a problem) the 'un-aired' episodes were crap. They didn't have the magic, the appeal. They seemed poorly written, flatly acted, and just 'not interesting.'

Contrast that with the aired episodes, which were nigh unto perfect.

It could have been a sign that they weren't able to keep up to task. Perhaps they'd given us the best they had, and they were running out of magic even in the first season. Maybe it's just that the un-air episodes were also unfinished, and they didn't get a chance to 'polish' them. Who knows.

Anyway....I still love FireFly. I'm still glad I bought it, and I'll watch MOST the episodes over and over. I still don't have TV, so it doesn't help me much to have it still playing or not. But we did get the season 1 DVD sooner than if the show was still going on. :)

don't feed em...

[sTalking_Goat]

come on man. an AC troll posts the classic "is this really news for nerds?" question on every other post. Just ignore em.

Re:Ill fated?

[drinkypoo]

Babylon 5 had an epic story with a beginning, middle, and end. It never wondered where it was going like Trek does. With that said, the acting was absolutely horrible for the first two seasons with only one exception, garibaldi. I can never remember the actor's name but he was hired because he "was" garibaldi. All he had to do was deliver lines and emote, not act like someone else :)

It also involved a lot of THOUGHT into the mental processes of the assorted aliens, something that trek has never bothered to do. The only reason trek is well-fleshed-out today is that it has gone on for so long. It's had a lot of retroactive continuity in that time, though, which I believe hurts it.

Re:What's so good about Firefly?

[sTalking_Goat]

The laser blaster (The Lasider?) in Trash never worked. What show did have though were non lethal sonic guns, carried by Alliance security personnel. Pretty damn cool.

Prediction:

[lawpoop]

Television will become solely a preview medium for movies and DVD series-es.

Re:Prediction:

[Best ID Ever!]

Prediction: Television will become solely a preview medium for video on demand.

Re:What's so good about Firefly?

[Jonathan_S]

2. All of outer space looks and feels like midwest America circa 1850.

Except the inner planets of the Alliance, one of which was shown in 'Ariel'. That was a very high tech planet. Now Serenity doesn't go there often due to the abundance of law enforcement :)

Or the resort planet for the very rich shown in 'Trash'. Airborn floating islands with mansions on them is hardly midwest America circa 1850.

3. They've got space ships and inhabit many many worlds, and yet everyone still speaks with a midwestern American accent and carry around colt 45's to shoot each other with.

And semiautomatic rifles with scopes, and assault rifles, and the odd semi-auto pistol, not to mention the rare laser weapon or non-lethal electroshock rifle.

FOX SUXORS theyr a bunch of monkey brained morons.

[eadint]

Millennium (canceled)
Space Above and Beyond (canceled)
Firefly (Canceled)
Family Guy (Canceled)
COPS (still running)
Survivor (still running)
ab bunch of dumb guys trying to bone a bunch of idiotic silicone injected bimbos ( in its 100 season)

Whoever sets the programming for fox has the hormones of a 16 year old
the decorum of an autistic monkey
and the mental acuity of well one of those horny guys trying to bone the the stupid chicks.

It seams like any show that makes you think , question reality and or requires intelligence to understand gets canceled.

i know that the people at fox will say that thats what people want to watch, but in all truth, thats all you tell them to watch.

i know that I'm being incoherent. but i think there was a time when television made you think, now it does everything that it can to stop you from thinking.

Re:What's so good about Firefly?

[sTalking_Goat]

6. No sound in space.

for this alone it deserves recognition. Every other sci-fi show or movie out there has the do the big laser battles thing. Every single one tosses physics out the window so they can have Tie-Fighters screaming by and super big explosions. Firefly alone does a space battle the way it should be done. Untterly quiet and creepy. The scene from 'Our Mr. Reynolds' with Jayne firing his gun inside of a spare spacesuit (Because duh, explosions require oxygen) was awesome.

Throw on top of that great writing and characters with depth, and you've got one of the best shows of the last decade. But there will always be people who write it off as a space western, so I suggest you see for yourself. Download and ep or two and if you like it buy the boxset.

Re:Great news!

[sTalking_Goat]

no. they had first shot and turned it down because they had Battlestar Galactica in the works. There's talk of a movie though

An example of what to expect

[guarddonkey]

I haven't seen the shows since I originally TiVo'd them (foolishly, I assumed I would have the repeats to record) so I don't remember the episode title but the episode came down to the crew having captured a henchman of who I assumed would be one of the big bads for the series. The henchman was being uncooperative and would not respond to the Captain's questioning. After the henchman informed the crew he would let the big bad know about them, it looked like the henchman would be taken as a prisoner in the regular Star Trekian way, but the Captain rounded and kicked the guy into the intake flow of the engines. Problem solved, crew flew off.

I think the best way would be to describe it as a Western set in space instead of true Sci-Fi. It stayed more to the conventions of the old serial style westerns than it did to modern Sci-Fi. If you've ever enjoyed Tombstone or any number of old black and white westerns and you don't mind Sci-Fi, you'll love this show. However, if you're expecting Farscape or Babylon 5 style Sci-Fi, then you'll be sorely disappointed. If you don't go in thinking the show will suck, I think you'll find you're watcing a great show.

Re:An example of what to expect

[Anonymous Coward]

No, no! You missed the best part!

The scene starts with the henchman on his knees, hands bound. Mal (the captain) waves a wad of cash in his face, says, "This is all the money Niska paid us." (Niska's the bad guy.) "I want you to take it back, 'cause we're square now."

Henchman gives a lengthy, spit-filled speech about how they'll never be square, how no matter where they hide or how far they run, he'll find them.

Mal winds up and kicks the henchman into the engine.

Immediately the second-henchman-in-command is hauled out in front of Mal. Mal waves the cash again: "This is all the money Niska paid us."

"Yeah, yeah, man," new guys says. "I'm with ya all the way."

High-larious, I tell ya. Never seen anything like it. And damn sure never will, now. Stupid Fox tien shau duh pieces o' go se crap-it-all-to-hell.

Re:Maybe cause Everybody Loves Raymond is good?

[kaltkalt]

Nope, it's by far the worst non-reality show ever to disgrace the airwaves. Not only is it not funny, but the timing of the show is so miserable that it makes me sick... after every 'joke' there is a 20 second pause as the camera focuses on the actor and plays the laugh-track. Every one stays frozen for 20 seconds or so as this continues. It's horrible. And the jokes are never funny.

Example: A girl walks in with a pretty red dress, raymond say "You look like a prostitute" and the laugh track plays for 20 seconds as the camera stays focused on Raymond (it might shift over to the girl in the dress to show her outraged face for 10 or 15 seconds afterwards). How this show can stay on tv baffles me.

I think people watch this show and think it's sophisticated and intelligent because it has piano music as the theme song. It must be sophisticated if that's the case....

The Chu shie fook executes at the Fox network

[Richard M. Nixon]

First, the swearing is as lame as it was in Farscape.

I haven't seen Farscape so I don't know about its swearing. The swearing in Firefly was actually Chinese. Joss's idea was that in the future the only two superpowers that survive are the United States and China, and thus everyone knows both English and Chinese. (But reserve the Chinese for the swearing for the ease of the audience I assume.)

Incidently, the /. editors cut one sentence from my statement: The Chu shie fook executes at the Fox network were Sha gwa to cancel this show. And I thought that was the sentence that would get this article posted :)

The cool thing about swearing in Chinese is that they could get away with saying stuff that the censors would otherwise never allow. It is kinda like Kenny on South Park, where you can read between the lines to guess what they said. Except in this case you could potentially look up what they are actually saying. The downside is the actors were not exactly fluent in Chinese and people who are would probably not understand them.

Second, the commercial breaks are very obvious. Looking at most of them, it would take very little to make the transitions a little smoother.

I think Joss did this deliberately. At least in the pilot (the real one that didn't air until the last broadcast) after a shot of the Reavers' ship he wanted a pause for tension. He said they couldn't have 2 seconds of black, because the computers would automatically cut to commercial. How he got by this is he used the darkest gray that wouldn't trigger the cue for commercial.

And one of these days, I will figure out whether Inara or Kaylee is hotter.

I guess that depends on whether you like geek girls. Kaylee is clearly a geek. And she looks hot with engine grease on her face. :)

Re:Firefly was sci-fi that dared to be political..

[LandGator]

As Dear Captain (Miles' Vorkosigan's mother) once said when asked about putting principles vs. people first, she replied "People.. because souls are eternal." This the importance of the rule of honor.

If you like FIREFLY, you probably also like Lois McMaster Bujold's books. Start with BARRARYAR, and don't shop until the shopping expedition's over.

Watched 'em already. :)

[Mouth of Sauron]

I loved them all. I am not as much of a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan, or of Angel for that matter. Firefly, on the other hand, resonated with me for some reason, and I'll try to put them into words.

The reason I liked the series is because it shows that there is nothing new under the sun. People in the future will remain people, with all their faults and flaws. Long after we're gone people will still be killing each other, stealing from each other, trying to rule, trying to escape, trying to make a living. I believe Firefly went far beyond many science fiction stories in portraying this. Far too many sci-fi shows are utopian in nature, and with the notable exception of Babylon 5, nearly all of them fall into this trap. Slavery existed before, and still exists today. It is unlikely that this particular scourge will be eliminated totally in the future and may make a return. Likewise, the related concept of indentured servitude is one which make make a comback, for better or worse. People tend to dwell on the evil of slavery while forgetting that indenturing allowed the Americas to be colonized. And, as happened before the line between them became blurred, and this was portrayed (a little) in the show. The whole concept of migration, colonization, rebellion, and pacification were used as setting. For a television show, this is unusally broad.

Firefly showed the good with the bad, in that of the individual as well as the whole of humanity. The characters, of course, are no exception. They each have positive and negative traits, show weakness at times as well as strength. Furthermore, they showed different kinds of weaknesses and strenghts, where most science fiction and fantasy tend to ascribe one key skill and fatal flaw per character. Spock had a heroically big brain or Heracles had heroically big muscles. Characters on Firefly were not necessarily good at things one would expect. Sure, they had their skills, but there were nuances, suprises even. How many times on Star Trek did Wesley solve a science problem or Worf handled a matter of honor. (As an aside let me say to Wil if he reads my post I hold him blameless. He didn't write the character) One thing that Whedon is good at doing is taking television characters in unexpected directions. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, bet at least he is unafraid to change his characters through the story.

The technology in Firefly is another aspect which contrasts it from other science fiction stories. Some stories are all about the technology, often Star Trek fell into this, and others the technology is not the story at all. My example there would be Star Wars which is more fantasy than sci-fi. Firefly walked a different path, showing different levels of technology used by different people. On Star Trek the Feds have one level of technology and science, some worlds are more primitive, and some mysterious races possess more. Firefly wasn't afraid to show that people would natually have more or less. More or less money and resources, and theremore more or less fancy tech. There are haves and have-nots, and sometimes the most sophisticated technology is not the most reliable.

Lastly, I would like to say a science fiction show absent of aliens is a treat. Turning humans into monsters shows unusual insight into the human condition. That humans could become aliens has been explored, but its nice to see a television show reach new, or rarely trod ground.

All of this adds up to a uniquely entertaining show. I rarely make time for television, but I found myself eagerly waiting for Firefly to come on. I wish the Sci-Fi Channel would pick it up, but alas, it is now the Stargate Channel.

Re:Watched 'em already. :)

[Richard M. Nixon]

There were far too many Star Trek episodes about "Spatial Anomalies."

Darn, You said most of what I've said in other comments, only more eloquent. I hate you. You are going down on my list.

(As an aside let me say to Wil if he reads my post I hold him blameless. He didn't write the character)

Wil seems like a good guy and a decent actor. I loved it when he unwittingly destroyed the Earth in an episode of The Outer Limits. That made up for all the Star Trek crap.

All of this adds up to a uniquely entertaining show. I rarely make time for television, but I found myself eagerly waiting for Firefly to come on. I wish the Sci-Fi Channel would pick it up, but alas, it is now the Stargate Channel.

As I said, I hope the DVD sales will somehow get us a second season. I've read that a Movie is in the making, or at least planning stages.

Am I the only one...

[Pieroxy]

that did read: "Firefly BSD Released"?

And I thought *BSD was dying...

GREAT series.

[jrwillis]

I bought the set when it came out and I LOVE it. It's really worth the money IMHO. I can't wait for the movie to be released....

Re:Ill fated?

[Blakey Rat]

Yikes, how about READING the grandparents post before you comment?

Specifically the word "if" in the sentence containing the phrase "juvenile Saturday morning."

You utterly missed the point of what he was saying.

9 faces looking into the black, seeing 9 things

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's my own take on FIREFLY and the DVD:''34 of 35 people found the following review helpful:

9 faces looking into the black, seeing 9 different things, July 23, 2003
Reviewer: Blair A. Petterson
I despise television. I even gave it up last year, and now only see a few shows a friend and I watch together. "The West Wing". "24". "Buffy the Vampire Slayer".

Until last fall. Then I saw "Firefly", named somewhat whimsically about a cargo ship whose end lights up when it accelerates. But this is no flashy futuristic show about technical wonders, but rather a very nitty-gritty character study of nine very individual people.

Joss Whedon, who created "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel", had an idea for a science fiction show unique to that "Southern California born/spent time in Britain as a teenager" background of his: He read a book about the ground level grunts of the American Civil War called "The Rebel Angels" and wanted to do a TV series about the people who didn't make the history books: the people history stepped on. He wanted to do a story set in a future about a ship and where it went. Not a vast engine of war or a great vessel of exploration and diplomacy, but an old tramp steamer of a ship, so small it didn't even have a mounted gun, that made its way through thick and thin by taking any job, anywhere, no questions asked.

The nine people on board the Firefly-class ship "Serenity" aren't rich, famous, particularly smart or particularly gifted, for the most part. They all have pasts, and not all of them are comfortable about talking about themselves. They live in the aftermath of a major war that lead to the forceable unification of all of humanity, and not all of them were on the same side. The ship's name, "Serenity" is that of the climactic battle of that war, and they find themselves still trapped psychologically in a war that ended six years before. They have doubts, fears, old pains and new concerns, like where their next job is coming from and whether they'll live through it, because the few people that can hire them and will hire them have scant concern for ethics, the law or good manners. Sometimes your employer is more dangerous to you than the law you're trying to avoid.

And this is a show about the outskirts: there are laser guns, hoverships and advanced technology, but few can afford them. Big Dumb Bullets are still cheaper than Flashy Powered Blasters, and on the frontier reliability is more important than fashion, particularly when the other fellow has a habit of firing first. A horse will do you better than a powersled if you have lots of grasslands but no repair facilities or money to pay. A man dressed like a cowboy may have artificial organs and a revolver, or own a space station and need to pick up advanced medicines or even transfer a herd of cows. "Serenity" flies between the Core worlds of advanced technology and the newly terraformed Rim worlds, where people are grateful to have a wooden roof overhead.

It is this peculiar mix of the old and new that fascinates those looking for the unexpected: the comically serious and the deadly comical. Any given episode will shift you from adventure to terror, farce to drama, slapstick to deep thought and a sense of "boy, I didn't see THAT coming" without a sense that no-one is at the wheel, or that the screenwriter is merely playing with your expectations. More importantly, there are no "cheats": every action more deeply reveals the characters and who they are becoming. Unlike the broadcasts, this DVD shows the episodes, including three new ones, in their intended order.

"Firefly" is seldom what it first appears to be, either in terms of appearance or behaviour. No plot works out as expected, and people can surprise you. Joss Whedon indicated that "Buffy" was about growing up, "Angel" is about getting to work and "Firefly" is about being grown up and the choices you have to make as an adult. It's not like any other show you've seen: a story of the nine people who find themselves on board

Re:Ill fated?

[fdiskne1]

Garibaldi was played by Jerry Doyle. I agree. The first 1.5 seasons kinda sucked. Whenever a friend wants to start watching the show, I encourage them. I also warn them that the first season and a half will make them wonder why they are doing it. But it is very important that they start there since there are a few things set up that are important later in the series. Once you make it to season 2, episode 9: The Coming of Shadows, THAT'S when things get interesting. The pace picks up and things don't really slow down until the end of season 4.

Only 16 more days until Season 4 comes out on DVD!

The advantage is in the forking...

[silentbozo]

Why would 'Open Source Movie Making' automatically be better than Hollywood's current trend of designing by committe?

Because in Hollywood, only one entity can "own" the title, and as such, only one "official" version can be released. (ignoring for the moment, director's cuts, edits for television, restorations for DVDs, etc.) In such a collaborative process, everybody thrashes it out until there's consensus - or until someone in charge puts their foot down.

In an open source environment, everybody thrashes it out until there's consensus - or until somebody decides to fork. Even better, you can get people who use the project as a springboard to something totally different. A cast and crew doing an "open source" movie might conceivably spawn dozens of movies and shorts, from all sorts of genres, just based on the same actors and footage.

If you don't believe me, take a look at the shorts spawned from the footage of the star wars kid. And this was just based on some joke footage. Imagine what you could piece together if you had some input into what to shoot? Along those same lines, Roger Corman (the B movie king) made a career out of reusing footage other people had tossed (or reusing footage that he and his crew had shot from other movies). You probably won't get Academy Award material out of it, but then again, the big movie studios spend millions of dollars a year to deliver crap...

Ok, WT!??!!1!

[Cyno01]

Anyone else get the banner for slashdot personals? WTF is the deal with that, april's not for a couple of months.

Re:Ok, WT!??!!1!

[dbIII]

Anyone else get the banner for slashdot personals?

And did anyone elese misread "Unlimited Options" as "Unlimited Opinions"?

Re:Ill fated?

[Yobgod Ababua]

I believe I understand his point perfectly, including the use of "if".

The original post suggests that the adjective "ill-fated" is inappropriate, because it implies that the show met a fate it didn't deserve, and suggests instead "doomed", implying that it had no chance.

That sentence basically says "If the show hadn't sucked (was more than juvenile), we could call it ill-fated". The implication is that we shouldn't call it ill-fated, because it was not "more than juvenile Saturday morning" fare.

I respectfully disagree with these blanket statements and enquire what criteria were used to support these opinions.

What did you think he meant?

Re:Ill fated?

[Richard M. Nixon]

Personally, I really liked Babylon 5.

One of the reasons I don't like Star Trek is that technology comes too easy for them and everybody is happy.

The main difference between B5 and Firefly is Firefly does not have aliens. They have a few people with lots of cool techology, but most people are either living in slums, or shipped off to newly terraformed planets with barely enough supplies to survive.

The show had 9 main characters, which meant it was going to take the show a while to get started, but it looked like it was going to very interesting places.

In some of the backgrounds you see Blue Sun logos. They hadn't even described what Blue Sun was but it was going to be a pivotal part of the show. In the commentary Joss describes it as being a merger between Microsoft and Cocacola, or all the big corporations merging into one, and practically controlling The Alliance.

The problem is TV executives don't want to wait for development. They want instant results. This might be one of the big reasons nearly all TV is crap these days. I wonder of they could finance Firefly merly from DVD sales.

It's amazing that we keep getting "shows" like Firefly and the new "Battlestar Galactica", but no one can be bothered to do a good science fiction series.

Battlestar Galactica was a crapy show, but it was only one for one season? Two?
It is depressing that Enterprise is still on the air, and will likely run for 7 seasons.

(But you shouldn't have been modded troll. Sheesh People, learn to accept some criticism! If you disagree with someone reply to them, don't downmod.)

Scuse me bud - which way to Tarsus?

[Scooter]

Is it just me or is Firefly "Traveller - the movie"

hmm lets see - owner/operator of starship crewed with dodgy geezers picks up passengers, and cargoes, buys and sells goods, smuggles and engages in the odd heist...

I wonder how many of the episode plots can be found in "76 Patrons" :)

I liked it - shame they canned it so early. I think it needed some deeper mystery or binding plotline though - the episodes were too standalone - apart from the psycho woman and brother's search for a cure there was very little continuation from one episode to the next. Perhaps they should have bought the rights to Marc Miller's "The Traveller Adventure" campaign, or maybe Poul Anderson's "Trader Team" books, such as "The Long Night" and "Mirkheim".

Re:Scuse me bud - which way to Tarsus?

[__aagmrb7289]

Watch the DVDs carefully - as always, Joss and his writers had a lot of content that was there for faithful viewers - things that related to previous episodes. However, there was less of this, because things got edited out when the episodes were released to air out of order. So, double check that DVD - there is a lot of continuity, though they are necessarily on a "quest" that spans a season, or anything of that sort. It's less obvious, and more real.

Such great dialogue

[JonahLee]

ZOE:
Preacher, don't the Bible have some
pretty specific things to say about
killing?

BOOK (the Shepard):
Quite specific.
(beat)
It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on
the subject of kneecaps.

Now that is some funy dialogue.

Personally i loved the show, but didn't see it until this DVD release. I wish I had, of course it wouldn't have made a differnence since I am not a Neilson family. FOX were morons, but at least it looks like Universal might do a film, though hopefully that does really well, and can lead to the series coming back together at some point in the future.

Kaylee, definitely.

[cleanroom]

The doctor said it best in the "Jaynestown" episode.

"I just said that you're pretty. Even when you're covered in engine grease, you're... No, especially-- especially when you're covered in engine grease."

BTW, when you find that geek-girl, never let her go.
(mine is cute in grease too)

Re:Kaylee, definitely.

[tekrat]

I vote for Kaylee. There's nothing better in the world than a hot chick holding a big wrench.

Remember the episode where Kaylee goes to the fancy dance and she winds up being very popular with the guys because she's talking engines?

Now that's hot. That's something the whore chick could never do. This is why Kaylee rocks.

Re:Firefly was sci-fi that dared to be political..

[wildchild07770]

That world view is in part what made this show so amazing, and I couldn't understand how in ways it contributed to its own demise. I just wish the "status quo" american wouldn't mind thinking for themselves sometime so that we could keep quality programming on TV. THIS is why I don't watch anything but the history channel now.

Guns in space

[Nf1nk]

Jayne firing his gun inside of a spare spacesuit (Because duh, explosions require oxygen) was awesome.

To be chemicaly acurate firing a gun in space would require no oxygen from outside, as the gun powder contains its own oxidizer (in fact on most guns there is an air tight seal around the bullet and casing. In fact all high explosives require no external oxygen. Most explosives work by freeing nitrogen from an unstable compound and from it forming N2 gas and a bunch of thermal energy.

firing a gun in space would produce higher muzzle velocities as ther would be no air in the barrel to slow down its exit from the barrel and would also increase the pressure diferential between the firing chamber and the enviroment.

However if you want a good reason for the gun to be in a space suit I might suggest insulation from the temperature extremes of space.

Re:Guns in space

[Scrameustache]

The good people working on Firefly actually researched that a bit, and found arguments both for and against the need for an atmosphere for a gun to work, IIRC, and found that the balance did tip on the side of "no", but went with it anyways because: Your point about temperature, the fact that no one ever tried, and it might.
But mostly because it was Jane that did it, and Jane doesn't know about nitrogen and oxidizers.
What he knows is that a gun is a fire arm, and that fire needs air.

Jane isn't book smart, but he's clever. Its what Jane would do.

Re:Guns in space

[elvum]

Is the air-tight seal vacuum-tight though? If there's any gas inside the cartridge then it'll pop apart when the pressure drops, after which it's not much use for shooting things with...

Re:Ill fated?

[Scrameustache]

But you shouldn't have been modded troll. Sheesh People, learn to accept some criticism! If you disagree with someone reply to them, don't downmod.But you shouldn't have been modded troll. Sheesh People, learn to accept some criticism!

He was rightly modded troll, he should not have been modded funny (what part was funny exactly?), and you should learn not to feed the trolls.

On the Internet, a troll is a person who posts messages that create controversy or an angry response without adding content to the discussion, often intentionally. Though technically different from flaming, which is an unmistakable direct personal attack, trolls often resort to innuendo or misdirection in the pursuit of their objective, which is to create controversy for its own sake, discredit those with whom they disagree, or sabotage discussion by creating an intimidating atmosphere.

What he did was not criticism, it was flaming.
He added nothing to the discussion, he only attacked.

Putting the word "show" in quotation mark? Calling it juvenile (with no supporting evidence), calling it bad, and then comparing it to the bottom of the barrel (Andromeda) and claiming it is its inferior...that is trolling.

He said nothing constructive, nothing informative, nothing even to back up his claims, he only talked shit about the conversation topic in order to get people to reply to him. You did, you shouldn't have.

If you disagree with someone reply to them, don't downmod.

Look newb, set your filter to -1, and look at all the crap people with WAY to much time on their hand use to pollute this site, modding down is a necessity.
Trolls willingly post things that people will rightly disagree with to get some attention. Attention is given by replying. I'll give you advice that works on /. and near bridges:

Do not feed the trolls.

Re:Ill fated?

[aanantha]

I think you should give Babylon 5 another shot. How much have you seen? You have to be patient with it. A lot of other sci fi series are designed so that each episode can stand by itself. Star Trek comes to mind.

Babylon 5 doesn't work that way. There are several episodes which I think are superb, but to appreciate those you'd have to watch most of the episodes prior.

The entire series is essentially a giant novel. Can you accurately judge the Lord of the Rings trilogy by the first 30 pages? At that point, they're not even out the Shire. It's kind of the same thing.

It's weaker on a per-episode basis, but as a series it really stands out. Consider after 7 seasons of Star Trek: The Next Generation, how much have the characters and the Star Trek universe changed? Not a whole lot. You start out with the Federation flagship, with a seasoned captain and a slightly inexperienced crew. In the end you have a less prickly captain and a crew that's a bit more interesting.

In contrast, the Babylon 5 station starts out as a joke. Becoming an ambassador to Babylon 5 was considered a demotion. Earth politicians had trouble justifying its existence. It was about as productive as the United Nations General Assembly. Nothing resolved, just political infighting. Hardly the place you'd expect anything interesting to happen.

The commander of Babylon 5 even has to justify space travel. When asked, he concludes that we have to be out in space because someday our sun will become cold. If we want to survive more than a few billion years we have to get ourselves somewhere else.

In the last episode, you actually get to see the death of the Sun billions of years in the future. Along the way, worlds and entire civilizations are destroyed. Governments collapse. But greater things are created along way.

Re:FOX SUXORS theyr a bunch of monkey brained moro

[__aagmrb7289]

Okay, I was trying not to get too involved in this topic, because it is so near and dear to my heart, and it hurts everytime I think about the fact that I will probably never see this television show again.

To start, I'd like to say I agree with everything you said, eadint. Here's the problem. The people who are all the things you mentioned? These are the people watching television. These are probably the people that are posting on /.

I absolutely believe that Fox didn't want the show to succeed, and that they sabotaged it from the beginning. The problem is, we let them. They moved it around from time to time, from day to day, they didn't air a new episode for over a month, and didn't replay any episodes during that time, and the played everything out of order. But we didn't stick by our guns and watch the show. Okay, I did. But I couldn't get ANYONE ELSE to do the same. I did not succeed in enticing a single other viewer to the show. And so the ratings sucked, and the show was canceled. EVERY SHOW ON YOUR LIST WAS CANCELED DUE TO POOR RATINGS.

That said, I have to say I've learned one lesson, and am learning another:
1. Never watch new Fox television shows - they will only kill the ones I love; and
2. I've got to give shows a chance, and watch them, or I will never have entertainment that I like on TV again. And I must encourage others to do so also. Education is key.

#2 is really hard, and I'm not there yet with it, but I know it is true. So do you.

Anyway, hopefully this is food for thought. Don't forget - more people watch COPS than ever watched FireFly, and this is a travesty of the highest degree.

Re:What's so good about Firefly?

[Scrameustache]

shoots the guy, picks up his body and throws it out the rear cargo entrance so they can take off.

that's actually at the front of the ship, the big door opens under the "bridge".

7. Soft title music that gets stuck in your head and won't let go.
...

9. You can't take the sky from me...

Sig:

Re:Ill fated?

[nedron]

The concept of Firefly was interesting, but poorly executed in my opinion. For example, the train robbery was ludicrous. I don't mind the concept "western in space", but it shouldn't be a literal western in space (to my mind). A good example of what Firefly could have been was Outland, which did a great job of updating the western to the realm of science-fiction.

The show had 9 main characters

I think this was one of its problems, as the various recent Star Trek shows have exhibited the same issue. There are too many characters to devote time to develop, since each of the actors generally has some type of screen-time requirement in the contract.

Actually, the one thing the show did have going for it was that the cast was generally good. And I did like the premise that we hadn't run across hundreds of alien races.

By the way, thanks for the reply. Apparently, people are allowed to say "this show rocked" without providing their reasons, but you can't say "this show was pretty lame" without being attacked for not backing up your claim. ;-)

how is that flamebait?

[corbettw]

The parent complained that "Everybody Loves Raymond" is belittling to men, and it gets marked Flamebait? How? Why?

Raymond (and "According to Jim", and "My Wife and Kids", and "8 Simple Rules" while Jon Ritter was still alive, and just about every other "family" show on these days) gets most of its laughs from the foibles and follies of a mostly inept father/husband. If the character of Raymond were a woman, NOW and other womens' groups would be screaming bloody murder, and rightly so. But since the dufuses of these shows are all men, we're expected to laugh along with everyone else.

Again, I ask, Why? Why should men be made the butt of every joke on TV? Why should husbands and fathers be portrayed as lazy, stupid, untrustworthy fools? What ever happened to "Leave it to Beaver" and "Father Knows Best"? The only halfway decent father figure on TV these days is Red from "The 70's Show", and he's an ass most of the time.

Re:how is that flamebait?

[Scrameustache]

The parent complained that "Everybody Loves Raymond" is belittling to men, and it gets marked Flamebait? How? Why?


Woman with mod point?

Re:how is that flamebait?

[cardshark2001]

you don't get it, do you? these shows don't exist to belittle men. they do that, but it's secondary - and only done so far as is necessary to further the primary agenda. the primary agenda is to *normalise* the behaviour of these slovenly fucks, to normalise and promote the patriarchal hierarchy within their antiquarian families. these shows teach the great unwashed masses just how their lives should be run, how they should inter-relate with each other, i.e. they illustrate the Natural Order Of Things (as decided by conservative old farts). in short, these shows are regressive propaganda promoting an archaic and conservative agenda....and you've bought into it if your yearning for 1950s style trash is anything to go by.

Whew! Glad you were here to explain that! And here I thought it was just a crappy show, but now you tell me it is to perpetuate the paradigm of the paternal order of parenthood. Pretty pathetic really.

In the future, horses won't exist?

[Scrameustache]

spaceships landing in the wild west and being met with men on horses. It was an inconsistent and totally implausible view of the future.

How so?

We have supersonic planes, and people travelling on donkeys right now.

I have personally been on a jet plane and then met people who were actually travelling on horseback soon after: They were vacheros in Mexico (cowboys) bringing their cattle to a corrida.

By your logic, this is impossible, because if people can use a plane or an helicopter, then they will not plausibly choose to use horses instead.
Well, you know what? Only horse could have taken them the way they went, uneven terrain, over hills and through streams and jungle (They were taking those cows to a small fishing village, deep in the middle of nowhere). The horses find their own fuel on the way, snaking on plants, driking water. No modern vehicle would have done...none that mexicans in the cattle-care buisness could afford.

So yeah, in the future, just like today, people from rich countries (planets) will use high-tech vehicles (jet plane/jet-engine equipped spaceship) to go meet people in poor countries (planets) who can only afford low-tech, self-replicating, biodegradable, edible, semi-autonomous self-refuling transportation.

I wish my car could go fuel up by itself...then again, it runs much faster.

Greencine and Netflix both have it

[Artifex]

In fact I've got the first disc from Greencine in the out basket by my feet.

Of course, you could also buy it from Amazon or places like that.

Re:FOX SUXORS theyr a bunch of monkey brained moro

[TheLoneDanger]

EVERY SHOW ON YOUR LIST WAS CANCELED DUE TO POOR RATINGS.

IIRC Space: Above and Beyond actually had decent ratings. It was cancelled by a new incoming management group that wanted to clear out all the stuff it's predecessors did at FOX.

I'm just hoping for a DVD release for S:AaB personally.

Re:What's so good about Firefly?

[mrb000gus]

> The captain arrives in the middle of the hostage situation, and instead of negotiating, he - without missing a step - simply shoots the guy, picks up his body and throws it out the rear cargo entrance so they can take off. I love the way Whedon writes in anti-hollywood-formula stuff like this; another example is in the one episode when the captain's having a huge fight with the guard from the experiment lab and the crew members aren't helping out and 1 of them says "no, there's some things the captain must do for himself"...and he screams back at them "NO THERE AREN'T!" so they look at each other and both shoot the baddie.

Easy question

[bluesnowmonkey]

If DVD Sales are good enough, could we see a second season?"

I'll take that one!

No. It just ain't gonna happen.

Thanks, I'll be here all night.

Re:Firefly was sci-fi that dared to be political..

[InFire]

I read the whole opinion piece and while it makes some good points, I think it misses just as many. For example even though the plots and sci-fi setting were great, the acting and "chemistry" of the actors was just as good and important in making this series the greatest ever shown. The cast probably could have made it good even as an old time western without the sci-fi element. (Granted, I much prefer the variety of ideas that a sci-fi setting allows.)

Even though there was some "political incorrectness" in the series, I doubt that is what really killed it. More likely it challenged the cultural world view that most Americans think they have, only one part of which is the worship of the "rule of law" (ignoring the fact that it is no better than the values of those who interpret and enforce it). Even so, Firefly never really crossed the sacred cultural lines such as "monogomy is the only righteous lifestyle" which even Hollywood supports religiously.

My opinions and a dollar will get you a $.98 cup of coffee.

The show they replaced it with.

[Richard M. Nixon]

But why oh why oh why did Fox have to replace it with the most insipid teenybopper fast cars undercover cop show that they did?

That was insult to injury.

I was watching, or at least recording the show that came after it but I just couldn't stomache watching Fox at all after seeing the show they replaced it with. I was also interested in the interesting show that came after Firefly anymore. Is it still on? I can't remember the name anymore. Is the stupid undercover cop show still on? Have the Fox executives that canceled Firefly been taken out and shot yet?

Were they the same people who canceled Futurama? (That was canceled right?)

That pissed me off because I was a regular guest star on Futurama.

Re:The show they replaced it with.

[ericdano]

Yeah, and your head was looking good on Futurama ;-)

Petition

[Cholten]

The link at the end of the article is actually to a petition that I set up over a year ago. It's usefulness (if any) is long since past. The most it did for me was to highlight how crap petitiononline are (no way to alter anything after the petition goes up and no responce to tech support requests).

The best way to influence the future of the show is buy the DVDs in record numbers in the hopes of Universal exercising their rights to make the movie.

In the meantime:

• My Firefly FAQ
• My Firefly Fanzine (please feel free to help!)
• The official bulletin board
• UK mailing list

If the server hosting some of those is eaten (is highly possible) feel free to mail me (dave at bowsy.co.uk).

Keep Flyin'

I liked this, and John Doe. Both cancelled early

[Zathras11]

At least with JD we got a full season,
but with the ending of that show, there
were still questions to be answered.
Oh well... I also miss Crusade (2nd
Babylon 5 show). It was JUST getting
good when TNT pulled the plug.

don't bug Fox with petition.

[goochman]

In a surprising move, Fox sold all the property and the rights of Firefly to Universal. Fox will have nothing to do with any more TV or Movies. IMDB has Firefly in the Database with unknown status. According to some news on fireflyfans.net , all the original cast has signed on for the movie.

Re:Ill fated?

[elvum]

Apparently, people are allowed to say "this show rocked" without providing their reasons, but you can't say "this show was pretty lame" without being attacked for not backing up your claim.

Well yes, and that's because the show rocked ;-)

Actually...

[Snaller]

Joss singing the firefly theme would be a good present for someone you hate ;-)

I'll tell you why.

[El Camino SS]

Why does there always have to be this "1% of the population liked it so bring it back" mentality!?

Why are they desperate?
Television is dying. The evidence is all around you. I know there are more channels than before, but before the internet, and DVDs becoming cheaper by the day, and the Tivo blasting out all of the commercials, television was sitting pretty. It had your attention. Lets do an example:

Q: Who sponsored the Little Orphan Annie radio show in the Golden Age of Radio? A: Ovaltine.

Everyone knows this. Why is this fact special? THIS WAS BEFORE I WAS BORN. I even know about ads before I was born. I was forty years too late, and I never even heard it with my own ears. That is the power of singular attention. The whole nation had its attention. The whole nation heard "Ovaltine," and "Little Orphan Annie." You can practically not seperate the two. That, my friends, is the influencing power that television longs to have again.

I work in TV. If you ever get to see the kind of syndication magazines that show all of the new direct to syndication shows that are just scrambling to get on to WGN-TV at 3am just to dodge syndex rules, you would understand that all of this CHOICE is making people NOT CHOOSE TV.

You can bring anything around no matter how small as long as it has a guaranteed audience with a guaranteed demographic saying "we will watch it every night it is on and sit through the commercials waiting" attitude.

The proof? Infomercials. Who cares? The 200 people that bought it do. The company that sold 200 is excited as hell.

I know that the reason that people thought that they could bring back Farscape (and they did) was how they knew that Sci-fi had FANS. Pissing off those fans is BAD. It's especially bad when you are thinking that most people who watch a lot of TV also have 50 channels to chose from, and those Farscape fans are suddenly stuck on the custom Harley Davidson show on Discovery.

Trust me, television networks want ad revenue. Eyes are only a part of that equation. What if you could deliver three thousand people nationwide that would buy your plasma TV guaranteed every time you ran the ad? RUN IT! Who cares if only four thousand people are watching! RUN IT! It works!

TV. In a nutshell.

Re:What's so good about Firefly?

[AKAImBatman]

I remember that episode. I got a real kick out of the looks on their faces when the captain proclaimed that he could use a little help.

The other good one was were he kicked the bad guy into the engine. Effective too. The next bad guy was more than willing to cooperate. :-)

I HATE FIREFLY!

[dave1g]

I cant believe they switched out dark angel for this shit, ugh pissed me off so much!!! I hate fox!

Re:Not really

[cardshark2001]

The implication, therefore, that people didn't watch Firefly because they disagreed with its anti-government stance is ridiculous. It's more likely that people either didn't know about it or didn't find it compelling enough to watch.

I completely disagree that this was flamebait. It did however, miss the mark. The original poster did not say that people refused to watch it because of the anti-government stance. The OP said that fox put it on at a bad time/tried to kill it because of that stance. Now, why they paid a couple of million an episode for a show they planned to kill is something I'm not quite smart enough to figure out, but hey, those studio execs are a lot brighter than me.

Re:Ill fated?

[MysticGlyph]

I will say that just reading your post does make me want to check out the series again... from the beginning. Ahh, if only our only responsibilities were to entertain ourselves, then I'd have enough time to give the attention deserved to each passed over show ...alas....