Major New TiVo Service Offerings

Jeff The Riffer writes "At the Consumer Electronics Show today, Mike Ramsay of TiVo announced three major new product offerings to come in the next year. First off there's the DVD Recorders, HD DVR, and Home Networked Enabled Products. TiVo/DVD Recorder boxes have been out for a bit now but looks like the offerings will continue and there's going to be new units by Pioneer. Second we have TivoToGo, where TiVo users with Home Media Option will be able to transfer files off their TiVo onto their PC and either play them locally or burn them to DVD. And finally there's XM Radio for TiVo."

Comments

I may be ignorant

[Saven Marek]

> And finally there's XM Radio for TiVo."

Is there a Tivo like device for normal FM or AM radio? I enjoy a few programmes on radio but not too many, and it would be a benefit to record these simply.

I guess I could use my PC for it but it would be more convenient to have a Tivo like option

mac desktops, dare to be nude

Re:I may be ignorant

[davejenkins]

Is there a Tivo like device for normal FM or AM radio? I enjoy a few programmes on radio but not too many, and it would be a benefit to record these simply.

Yes. It`s called a "cassette tape recorder", and records the analog signals on small plastic "cassettes" that can be stored, transferred, or "dubbed" onto other cassettes.

Many units are integrated-- both radio and cassette "deck" into a single unit-- often refered to as a "boombox", for unkown reasons.

Re:I may be ignorant

[angusr]

Well, there is... TiVo. I don't know about your particular area, but in the UK most cable, satellite or digital terrestrial services transmit several radio channels in spare bandwidth. Not all of them have full program details provided by Tribune Media (TiVo's data provider), but certainly the major national ones do and so TiVo can record from them as normal.

I use this all the time to record from BBC 7.

Now, if only some nice hardware manufacturer would please get round to releasing a UK series 2 TiVo, or preferably a DVD-/+R TiVo...

Re:I may be ignorant

[cra]

As davejenkins pointed out (although I think he mean to be sarcastic) there are the good (?) and (definately) old tapes. Ten years abou I had a stereo rach with twin tapes and "all the goodies" including a timer to turn on my radio to wake me up. if I pushed the standard buttons REC+Play while the thing was off, it would stat recording the radio program when the timer turned on the radio. Very convenient in the cases where I wanted to tape something while I was at school, or at night while I was sleeping. (I just turned down the sound to avoid being waken up.)

I still have it actually, although I have stopped listening to radio very much. It was produced by JVC, by the way.

Re:I may be ignorant

[visgoth]

the terms "boomboxes" and ghetto blasters" were started during this period to describe the "noise" that emanated from portable stereo cassette recorders, though the sound quality on some rivalled that of home stereo systems.

-The Boombox Museum

Re:I may be ignorant

[fyonn]

talking about UK tivo's, are we due to see any more tivo's in the UK. I've got a thompson tivo as do half a dizen people I know but they aren't available any mroe and I've heard nothing about newer models with new features. sure there is sky+ but I've heard that it's not very good and of course, you've got to pay for sky which I don't want.

I'd love to see a new uk spec tivo with dual freeview tuners (maybe even three), bigger HD's, ethernet port, rendevous support (tivo claim to support it) and lots of new features.

does anyone know what tivo's plans as regards the UK are?

almost everyone I know who owns a tivo, owns one because they've seen how great mine is. I know they didn't sell that well in the UK but i think that was a marketting problem rather than the market not wanting it. I guess it's just a hard product to advertise. people need to use them to find out ho amazing they are.

dave

Re:I may be ignorant

[rusty0101]

For FM, you might want to take a look at the Archos FM Recorder. I don't own one, so I can't confirm that you can schedule several recordings over a week, or anything like that. I also am not sure that the output of the RM receiver is capturable.

I seem to recall another story over the past six months or so reviewing a Personal Radio Recorder, or something like that. HalfBaked has four ideas in that zone, but no indication of existing hardware.

Re:I may be ignorant

[mr_jrt]

I heard from a friend whose dad works at Sky that they bought exclusive UK rights to Tivo or something along those lines, so Sky+ is all we'll get. Clever really, they saw how great the Tivo principle is, then made is so if you want it, you have to subscribe to their service. Clever 'ol Murdoch.

Re:I may be ignorant

[fyonn]

I've heard from people who own both sky+ and tivo, and they say that a tivo plugged into a sky box is preferable to a sky+.

I'd be really disappointed if sky have exclusive rights to tivo. I know that tivo use sky+ for their subscriber billing.

alot of people in the U don't have sky, and I personally have no intention of getting sky, there is very little on it that I want. frankly I think sky is a bloody rip off for the sheer amount of money you have to pay them for the service.

for all the money they take off you, ho many programs do they actually *make*. at least the bbc and itv make programs, quite a few of them.

sky is too many ads, too much money, too commercial, and too filled with crap basically :)

I want a freeview tivo. it's also not got that amazing stuff on it either but it's got what I want.

dave

Re:I may be ignorant

[skintigh2]

I believe the Archos Jukebox FM Recorder does that, but it seems that product is not on their website anymore.

It's not so much a Tivo as it is a VCR for radio, but it is pocket sized and I love my (non FM) recorder. At least I did until my wife stole it.

Re:I may be ignorant

[radish]

Sky run Tivo CS and marketing in the UK. They don't license the technology, and have no direct influence other whether new boxes are produced. The reason they stopped being made was simply because because Thomson decided they weren't selling well enough, and no other manufactorer has (so far) decided to make them.

Re:I may be ignorant

[pyser]

Is there a Tivo like device for normal FM or AM radio?

You could use your Tivo and just feed the output of a radio tuner into its audio input. I'm not sure it cares whether or not there is video (but if it did, you could always get a cheapie color bar genny, or just plug in a VCR's output).

I use my analog VCR for recording radio shows. You can get eight hours without changing tapes, which is more than you can say for audio cassettes. And the quality is better if you use a HiFi VCR.

Re:I may be ignorant

[1HandClapping]

My DirecTV Tivo will not record music stations. Standard Video/Audio input Tivos should work fine.

Re:I may be ignorant

[mr_jrt]

Aaah, so my buddy was vaguely close then. Cheers for clearing that up...couldn't for the life of me think why Tivo would agree to a deal like that.

What do you mean by handling marketing though? I take it thats just for their own boxes, rather than all national Tivo marketing?

Re:I may be ignorant

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have a mac, you could try Griffin's Radio Shark:

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/radiosha rk/index.html

Re:I may be ignorant

[ratpack91]

Pace make a dual frewview recorder but it doesn't do anything groundbreaking and weighs in at 350 pounds which is a pretty damn expensive and the hard drive is only 20 gigs. You could have an array of 50 quid freeview boxes and vcrs for that money, or build a computer with 3 freeview tuners that could be used for other stuff as well, etc.
i would really like sky plus because it's only a one-off fee if you already have a sky sub (share cable at them moment with 5 other people so it works out v cheap for all the channels). Its a shame about the encrypted video though.

Re:I may be ignorant

[radish]

They were initially responsible for running ads etc for the Thomson Tivo boxes. This was before Sky+, and the idea was they would promote them heavily to Sky subscribers. Of course, then they figured they could just make their own version and keep 100% of the profit. So they didn't advertise Tivo at all, and killed it stone dead. Many people attribute Tivo's naievity in dealing with Sky to their demise in the UK.

Re:I may be ignorant

[jacobito]

I don't know what all the smartass comments about cassette tapes are about... I still keep a cassette deck around to play the odd mix tape, but taping radio to cassette is obviously not the solution you're looking for.

What you want, of course, is a Tivo-like consumer device for time-shifting radio shows. This is entirely reasonable. I want one, too. There are several community and college radio shows in my area that I miss every week because of work, and such a solution would be ideal for my situation. Anyway, I don't know of a Tivo-like device for radio, but FM tuners for your PC aren't too hard to find, and given some spare GBs of hard drive space, it's easy enough to cook up a solution:

• Gary Burd: Time-shifting FM radio
• Todd Veldhuizen: Linux Radio Timeshift HOWTO

I've been meaning to do this myself for a while.

Re:I may be ignorant

[lingenfr]

The Neuros also records from FM plus many other features. http://www.neurosaudio.com

Re:I may be ignorant

[fyonn]

afaik it's only a one off sub if you already have an expensive monnthly fee, I've been told that if you have one of the cheap packages then you still have to pay.

dave

Just What I Need

[dcw3]

Now I can spend more hours sitting on my ass drinking coffee (gotta watch out for that Type-2 diabetes ya know), watching the Simpsons over wireless.

Early Take

[Matrix2110]

Well, a very rare first take. I was wondering about Tivo's Subscription service vs. The others. I know I believe, And they are here. I suspect Google and Tivo to crush the competion like nothing ever seen before.

I am forecasting a little bit. I can promise these vendor's are downplaying DRM as much as possible. While
promoting interoperability.

Re:Early Take

[krymsin01]

From their website:

Accessing "TiVoToGo" requires a TiVo Content Security Key and TiVo-enabled versions of the Sonic Solution (NASDAQ: SNIC) MyDVD(R) and CinePlayer(TM) applications.

Sounds like DRM to me...

Re:Early Take

[Matrix2110]

Well yes, It is DRM up the a$$ but I was trying to be polite.

Re:Early Take

[AKnightCowboy]

Well, a very rare first take. I was wondering about Tivo's Subscription service vs. The others. I know I believe, And they are here. I suspect Google and Tivo to crush the competion like nothing ever seen before.

How quaint. TiVo is trying to finally do stuff to catch up to MythTV. Until they come out with a software update that removes the DRM entirely I won't be buying one though. What I record and how I archive my recordings is my business, not TiVo's. I support products that don't restrict your access to your recordings.

Re:Early Take

[danielobvt]

That content isn't yours. DRM is going to be the way of the future(I am not an advocate of it, but I am a realist). You might as well get used to it. You are paying for access to the media with specific terms, you do not own the media.

Re:Early Take

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, if they want to send radio signals over and through my property (including my body), then I'm going to reserve the right to do whatever the fuck I want with them.

Just as I might shoot a bird that shits on my car--and then use the corpse in some manner--I'll do what it takes to intercept decode, and reuse any OTA signal, as I see fit, terrestrial or otherwise. I don't care about the law. A corrupt law is as good as no law to me.

If they want to excercise their right to their property, they damn well better do it over some medium that dosen't allow me to get their signal in the open air. E.G. cable, fiber, etc.

Otherwise, anything else is fair game.

Re:Early Take

[matastas]

A noble angle, but TiVo is kicking major ass. Their DirecTV deal is very sweet, they have a nice customer base that's quite loyal, and they're pushing new product like mad. Unless/until The Masses get upset over this issue, you won't see them change.

'cause, I mean, how many people use MythTV? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Re:Early Take

[riffer]

But you're a geek. Joe Sixpack could give a fuck about you and your whining on DRM. Joe Sixpack probably doesn't own a PC, or it's some stock Gateway/Dell/Packard Bell with Joe Average specs. Joe Sixpack really likes being able to have the Tivo record stuff for him without his having to keep track of when a show's on. Joe Sixpack loves being able to skip commercials. And Joe Sixpack likes instant replaying the shots of those girls bouncing up and down on 'THe Man Show'. "Catching up" to MythTV is an amusing idea. TiVo is a pioneer in PVR tech. THey are WAY more serious about this than a bunch of geeks like us. They want to make money. Lots of it. Finding a way to make it easy for people to violate copyrights by trading TV shows/movies on the Internet is highly incompatible with that goal. Frankly, I'm most interested in the Tivo/DVD burner combo units. The ability to transfer a Tivo show to my PC is only marginally interesting to me... Of course at some point someone will figure out a way to crack that, and Tivo will either start getting sued..... Or start suing. :(

HD signal

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not up on the current situation, but isn't the whole point of HD being undercut by broadcasters taking advantage of digital broadcasting to cramm 6 channels into the space of one, thus delivering a very inferior image. I notice this on my non-HD DISHnetwork system, especially in fast motion scenes. The quality is more consistant than what I got over antenae (and a lot more channels), but heavy compression makes the images far more blurry than DVD on the same TV. It makes me worry HD sets won't solve anything except make DVD viewing better.

So, when they say HD-PVR, what kind of compression are we talking about?

Re:HD signal

[Anonymous Coward]

currently TiVo recording compression is user selectable between 4 levels. the highest is indiscernible from analog broadcast and the lowest is only palatable for slow moving cartoons, ie adultswim.

Re:HD signal

[the_2nd_coming]

yes and no...Broadcasters have realized that it is better to offer day time shows and the news in normal def and offer 6 sub channels over the signal and on special events, offer one channel of HD things like foot ball, prime time television dramas, etc.

who the hell wants or needs Oprah in high def?

Re:HD signal

[NetJunkie]

You're seeing two issues. First, satellite has awful compression. Many people don't realize it until they get a real big TV. It's painful for me to watch most things on DSS on a TV larger than 32". I have Sunday Ticket for the NFL season on my 64" Pioneer and the quality is worse than analog.

Some of the HD signals are being split, but usually not. Around here they only do that for some special events, say the NCAA tournament in college basketball. That way they can show all 4 games at the same time without needed 3 entirely new channels. When it gets down to where only one or two games are going at a time they show them in full HD glory.

Re:HD signal

[Zathrus]

I'm not up on the current situation, but isn't the whole point of HD being undercut by broadcasters taking advantage of digital broadcasting to cramm 6 channels into the space of one, thus delivering a very inferior image

Aiieeee!

No, you're quite thoroughly confused. But that's because the ATSC standard is confusing.

ATSC (Advanced Television Systems Committee) replaces the current NTSC (National ...) standard. It has 18 different modes, ranging from 480i (480 lines of vertical resolution, interlaced) to 720p and 1080i (p = progressive/non-interlaced; which is better depends on what you need. The 1080i has a higher resolution, but 720p is better for fast moving action). The maximum broadcast rate is 21 Mbps, which you can use for one program or multiple programs. The bitstream is MPEG2 encoded with Dolby Digital (aka AC3 or DD) audio. Note that DD is a requirement -- no other sound encodings are allowed by the spec. For reference, DVDs are MPEG2 encoded video with a variety of audio options (dolby digital is required, but DTS is on many disks as well; DTS is usually recorded at a higher bitrate, so some people prefer it).

All of that said, how much they can fit into a single "channel" depends on how much compression is used. Thus far nobody has really tried the multiple channels on one station gambit, although it is allowed. Even if it is done, odds are that you'll have a much better picture than what you get off cable (digital or analog) or either of the sat systems (although DirecTV is allegedly going to change this -- with their new sats going up later this year they'll have tons of bandwidth, and there are rumors that they'll bump picture quality back up to mid-90s levels). Realistically, both cable and sat systems broadcast their SD (standard def) programs at sub VCR quality nowadays -- roughly 240i. Yes, it really is that piss poor. On small sets you generally don't notice. On big ones you do. The digital broadcasts are cleaner (less static, no ghosting, etc) than the analog ones, but are prone to macro blocking if the bitrate is too low.

Broadcasting in 480i or 480p is generally considered "DTV" (digital TV). Broadcasting in 720p or 1080i is considered HDTV (High Def TV). True HDTV is considerably more detailed and clear than anything you'll get out of current generation DVD players (the next generation HD DVD will be another story of course).

So, when they say HD-PVR, what kind of compression are we talking about?

Whatever the broadcaster has done. The HD DirecTiVo will do no compression of its own -- it simply writes the bitstreams directly to disk.

Re:HD signal

[tommck]

Thus far nobody has really tried the multiple channels on one station gambit, although it is allowed

Actually, not true. My local station (WBAL-TV in Baltimore, MD, USA) broadcasts 3 channels on channel "2". The first (2-01) is the widescreen high-def channel. 2-02 is the 4:3 ration high def channel and 2-03 is an extremely low-def doppler radar of the Baltimore area broadcasting 24/7.

Re:HD signal

[tommck]

Just to be clear, 2-01 and 2-02 are actually 480p or DTV

Re:HD signal

[Zathrus]

Ah... nifty. Particularly the doppler radar :)

I'd much rather see uses like this (although I'm not too excited about the double broadcast of the HD signal, but maybe they have plenty of bandwidth) than the theorized many-disperate-channels that people talked about initially.

Re:HD signal

[pyser]

I work for a CBS-owned TV station. Last spring we broadcast the NCAA basketball tournament, and on several evenings we carried four games simultaneously in standard-def on our DTV channel. We were one of the few stations in the country that had the equipment and expertise to pull it off. You'll be seeing more of that sort of thing in the near future, because it's possible to make more money selling ads on 4 program streams than on one (hidef) stream.

Re:HD signal

[tommck]

Yeah, but that basically sucks for HD fans. The FCC winds up giving free bandwidth again and all it does it put money in the pocket of the TV stations and not improve the user experience...

Re:HD signal

[NanoGator]

"who the hell wants or needs Oprah in high def?"

Well I had to look at SOMETHING to satisfy my craving for Mars pictures.

Re:HD signal

[sean.m.bober]

OK, I'll bite. There is a difference between a digital broadcast and high definition. Yes, using compression, you can digitally broadcast more channels in the same bandwidth that you used to use for one analogue channel. However, a "high definition" broadcast is pretty much standardized. Therefore, a high definition broadcast will not suffer from the same kinds of artifacts that you are describing. It will be beautiful, even during those fast action scenes. The high definition video signal contains more detail, and as a result, looks better than a progressive scan DVD.

Re:HD signal

[Bryan Ischo]

Perceptions of image quality are subjective.

My friend has a 100 inch front projection system and DIRECTV looks great at that size.

Re:HD signal

[Bryan Ischo]

Not true. If more people get more enjoyment out of the choice of four programs (say four NCAA basketball games) than out of a single hi-def program, then the station will make more advertising revenue off of those four channels than one HD, and will broadcast that way.

If instead more consumers are drawn to a single hi-def program, then that's what the broadcasters will broadcast.

Advertising is based entirely on popularity (more popular programs/channels command higher advertising rates because they get more eyeballs) so the user experience will *necessarily* improve. Maybe not in the way *you* want, but in the way that the majority of customers want.

Finally, I think it's highly likely that there will be a mixture of methods used by stations for splitting up their ATSC broadcast frequencies. There will be hi-def to satisfy those who want hi-def, and more channels to satisfy those who want more choices of what to watch.

The current trends seem to bear this out, as well.

Re:HD signal

[-tji]

Digital television is the new broadcast standard. It gives the broadcaster a 19.4Mbps data stream. An HDTV broadcast (either 1920x1080 interlaced, or 1280x720 progressive) is the common usage.

The use of that space is not specified. Most broadcasters use it for a single HD broadcast. CBS, for example, has a ton of HD shows. Almost all of their prime time programming, and mmuch of their sports programming (like the NFL playoffs and Superbowl) are in HD. Using the whole pipe, the HD video looks incredible.

Some broadcasters, have gone the other route, and choose to stuff as many lo-res SDTV streams into that channel as possible. These show up as sub-channels, e.g. 46-1, 46-2, 46-3, etc. The worst example of this is the PAX network. They gladly take the free channel allocated by the FCC, then say they have no interest in broadcasting HDTV. They actually want to re-sell space on their channel to let other people broadcast in the subchannels. They have come up with several other for-profit uses for the public's spectrum. Hopefully the FCC will bitch slap them.

-- There are a few other corner cases.. Like Fox. Reportedly because of equipment restrictions, they broadcast in "Enhanced Definition", not full HD. They broadcast a 480P (DVD resolution), but they are upgrading to 720P. And, some local broadcasters choose to change the network broadcast format. Some add a subchannel on top of the network 1080i feed, decreasing the bandwidth for the HD stream. Some programming looks okay like this. But, any fast action / sports scenes suffer.

Re:HD signal

[tommck]

I understand market pressures as well as the next non-ecomonist. What I'm trying to point out is that, market pressures on the front end (TV Stations purchasing frequencies) was NOT there as an incentive to move to HDTV, which every set will have to be soon (think costlier TV sets...). So, now that the consumer has ponied up extra money for this high-tech fancy HDTV set, the TV stations are going to do their best to prevent them from seeing HDTV signals, because they can hit 4 demographics with one channel now, instead of one. This, in turn, shits all over the consumer.

Re:HD signal

[Anonymous Coward]

>> cramm 6 channels into the space of one

> No, you're quite thoroughly confused.

No, you're the confused one. As to why the moderators marked your post a +4, I haven't a clue. I work for Charter, and cramming more channels into the same bandwidth is exactly why we're converting to all digital. As of now, all of our movie channels, except for a single HBO, are digital. We're also destroying the quality of our regular channels to "convince" people to switch. We're doing this because we can fit six channels in the bandwidth of a single one. We certainly aren't doing it to save money. The DCT2000 cable boxes and the headend equipment is terribly expensive. It's a shame to spend so much money to send-out a digital when it is only a fraction of the quality of HDTV. That's what happens when accountants make technical decisions.

Re:HD signal

[Anonymous Coward]

Thus far nobody has really tried the multiple channels on one station gambit, although it is allowed.

In the San Francisco Bay Area, just about all the digital broadcasts are multiple channels per station. Most have a single HD channel (80%) and an SD simulcast (20%). KQED, the PBS affiliate, has 5 channels. 9-1 is HD during prime-time, 9-2 is SD 24x7, and the other three are SD whenever HD is not being transmitted.

Interesting

[A1an Cox]

TiVo's software and subscription service is at the heart of its digital video recorders, which can store television shows on a hard drive and pause live broadcasts. The company has been facing competition from Sonicblue's ReplayTV set-top box, Microsoft's UltimateTV service for satellite networks and other developing DVR technologies.

However, the announcements at CES should help to distinguish TiVo from rivals while also planting the company in the middle of another new trend: creating a hub for home entertainment. Earlier at CES, start-up Moxi Digital announced its software platform that will enable set-top boxes to become a hub of this sort. And software giant Microsoft announced similar plans Monday.

TiVo's plans are not as ambitious because they don't include making content available throughout the home. But that's partly by design. The company's new idea involves a push toward a more comprehensive product, something analysts have said TiVo lacked.

Re:Interesting

[Alphi1]

TiVo's software and subscription service is at the heart of its digital video recorders, which can store television shows on a hard drive and pause live broadcasts. The company has been facing competition from Sonicblue's ReplayTV set-top box, Microsoft's UltimateTV service for satellite networks and other developing DVR technologies.

Sonicblue and it's ReplayTV went out of business a little while ago (due in no small part to being run out of business because of it's controversial "commercial skip" feature).

Microsoft's UltimateTV was also discontinued about 2 years ago.

This leaves just TIVO to do as they wish, with their only competition people privately building Linux (or similar) boxes to do essentially the same thing.

[cynic] We're lucky to be seeing any of these enhancements... [/cynic]

Re:Interesting

[sdmartin101]

Sonicblue went under, but its ReplayTV holdings were bought by DNNA. ReplayTV is still alive and well.

Re:Interesting

[justforaday]

TiVo's plans are not as ambitious because they don't include making content available throughout the home.

check out the home media option they started offering last year. it allows you to stream content from one tivo to another [along with music and photos from your pc]. if that's not offering content throughout the home then i don't know what is...

Re:Interesting

[I_M_Noman]

This leaves just TIVO to do as they wish, with their only competition people privately building Linux (or similar) boxes to do essentially the same thing.

Time Warner Cable offers their own DVR as well. Doesn't require a phone line, either -- everything comes over the cable. I'd call that competition as well.

XM Radio stream ripping

[krymsin01]

The combined service will allow XM Radio subscribers to connect their PC Radio device to the home network and then access and publish their music on their TiVo Series2 DVR.

Well, I don't know, but that sounds like making copies of songs that you don't have the right to copy... Then again, is it illegal to make tapes from the radio? Wonder what the RIAA thinks...

If it rips the songs from the stream with correct tags and the appropriate filenames, I can see how some people would find feature desirable. But, you'd have to pay the Tivo initial hardware costs, plus the montly charges for both tivo and XM radio... and considering I can do the same thing for free with a shoutcast server and streamripper, I don't think this is going to sway me over to buying a tivo...

Re:XM Radio stream ripping

[TellarHK]

The thing with the XM PCR device is that there's never a digital stream of audio going through the USB port it uses for a connection to the computer. What the XM PCR does, is simply connect to the PC for control purposes then does output using a standard headphone jack. You wouldn't need to do anything special in the slightest to get the PCR to record songs on the PC, just copy the stream info tags (which are unfortunately limited to 16 characters, at least on my SkyFi unit) and start capturing a line-in.

However, the stream is a compressed one from orbit, so you might wind up with a not-so-pure recording when you encode it again for playback on a device.

Re:XM Radio stream ripping

[Didion Sprague]

There are mods with a digital out. It's no big deal to add.

Check out: http://www.xmfan.com for info on the XMPCR digital mods.

Re:XM Radio stream ripping

[Anonymous Coward]

In the past, grabbing songs off of FM radio wasn't a big deal. You didn't hear a word from the RIAA or any other group of producers, song writers or corporate executives. One may argue that the sound quality wasn't as good then but people didn't know any better so it was still technically "stealing". Yet, these record companies and song writers made millions back then. They knew that they had it good, so they kept their mouth shut, accepted the loss and still raked in the dough. Now, the digital age promised these people more security with their product and they are pissed off that this security is more trouble than it's worth. It's a digital world but people still have analog minds.

Besides, life was so much simpler with analog. I loved my cable descrambler. But it didn't matter, after an hour of TV my mom kicked my butt outside to play anyways.

Re:XM Radio stream ripping

[terrymr]

Ha ... XM was just trying desperately to come up with a new feature after Sirius added : dolby surround, streaming stock quotes & sports scores and more the first day of CES.

Unfortunately for DirecTico owners, there's still no home media option which leaves us without such fun features.

Service Model ascention

[davejenkins]

Is this evidence of the ascention of the "service" model over the "product" model for business? In other words, it seems that TiVo and others are realizing there is far more revenue to be had in providing a wide range of services rather than trying to get rich at $199 a peice for the hardware and a 1-year subscription.

Certainly-- if the loss of advertising revenue because of TiVo didn`t scare the cable companies, this new angle should: it is aimed directly at their throats (providing end-services to the customer). If TiVo succeeds, then cable will be relegated to a simple provider of digital feed-- a commodity that may come via cable, dish, or TVoIP. If I worked at TimeWarnerAOLComcast, I would be worried.

Re:Service Model ascention

[MrSubtle]

I wouldn't be worried at all if I were a cable TV company. All that TiVos, home networks, and portable players do is let you watch your cable TV in more and better ways.That means more hours of TV delivered per household per day, more ad impressions per day, and more value for the feed. How could that be bad?

Because people could copy/pirate the feed? No. If somoene wants to seriously pirate a movie they can go down to the store, buy a DVD and they are home free. If they want to pirate a TV signal they can just pump it into an A/D converter and out it goes. All these stupid restrictions and DRM garbage do is keep regular folks from doing useful and legitimate things with their feeds, and it makes me pretty mad!

Because TV programmers like to control when people watch what? I know that the programmers love the idea of controlling what times people see programs, but it's not their call. I want to see thigns when I want to see them. It's not their call and it shouldn't be. They are making content, not running my life...are they?

If I were working for Comcast I would be giving away a TiVo with home networking to every customer right out of the box, and banish all DRM. A high value product like that means higher revenues. It just means looking at the market a little differently.

Change is good! Embrace it, don't fear it!

--Brian

Re:Service Model ascention

[the_2nd_coming]

not really since you purchase the feature with a one time payment.

Re:Service Model ascention

[javaxman]

With the possible exception of providing internet or telephone service as well, aren't cable and satellite providers *already* just "simple provider(s) of digital feed" ? What else do they do ? What's the big difference between cable provider A and satellite provider B ?

Clearly, TimeWarnerAOLComcastATT *are* worried, and they should be. The smart folks are partnering ( or have already partnered ) with Tivo and Tivo wannabes ( M$, etc ) to churn out hardware and services that "compliment" the digital feeds and make them more useful. They're also looking for ways to leverage their digital feeds and customer relationships into other growth areas, like internet service and DVR.

I *love* my DirecTivo. All I need is to swap in a bigger hard drive... just as soon as my warranty exipres...

Re:Service Model ascention

[riffer]

Are you frelling insane?! Is that your problem?!

TiVo is a service company! They sell a SERVICE! Hell, they only started selling their own equipment a couple of years ago. The vast majority of Tivo devices are actually manufactured and sold by companies other than Tivo.

So yes, it makes perfect sense that Tivo is looking for new ways to expand their service offering.

How about a new anti-NBC feature

[bwalling]

NBC has found a nifty way to defeat Tivo - they change their shows to run from 8:00 to 8:31 (preventing you from recording an 8:30 show on another channel) or from 9:59 to 11:00 (preventing you from recording a 9:00 to 10:00 show on another channel). They debuted this on Thursday nights, but it has moved across their lineup now. Basically, I just watch less of NBC now, but if other channels start doing this, the Tivo won't work well unless I just record from one channel per night.

I'd love an update from Tivo that would allow me to side step this by setting a recording to start one minute late. Currently, you can have it start early and end late, but you can't make it start late, therefore it just won't record the program unless you do it manually.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[aziraphale]

How about Tivo stick more than one TV demodulator in the box? Then you could record more than one program at once...

In the UK, Sky+ is a Sky satellite decoder with a built-in digital video recorder - it takes two feeds from the satellite dish, so you can watch one channel and record another simultaneously. In December, they downloaded a software update to Sky+ that lets you simultaneously record two programs, and even watch an existing recording while those two shows are being streamed onto the disk. But most importanty, if you're out for the night, and there's two shows on you want to catch at the same time, you don't have to miss either of them.

With Sky+, you need a separate cable from the satellite dish for each of the feeds - there's actually two wires coming out of the dish to the box. Tivo wouldn't actually need to do that, since it does its own TV tuning. So, you could theoretically stick five demodulators in the box and be able to simultaneously record five TV channels.

I guess one difference is that Sky+ is recording a digital satellite stream, so doesn't have to dedicate any encoding effort to streaming the incoming broadcasts to disk (they're already digital), whereas Tivo is encoding analogue signals, so might not have the horsepower to encode multiple signals simultaneously.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[AKnightCowboy]

NBC has found a nifty way to defeat Tivo - they change their shows to run from 8:00 to 8:31 (preventing you from recording an 8:30 show on another channel) or from 9:59 to 11:00 (preventing you from recording a 9:00 to 10:00 show on another channel).

That's why a useful PVR will need to have at least 2 tuners in it. I have tons of shows I watch that overlap schedules. For example if I want to tape Ed at 9pm EST on NBC and JAG on CBS at 9pm EST, I just let it. With your TiVo you're screwed and have to fall back to setting up the VCR or just missing shows. The other option is to buy another expensive TiVo unit and service just to catch things you're missing. If TiVo would just put dual tuners in their third generation boxes this wouldn't be an issue. The DirecTivos did it right.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[silas_moeckel]

Funny topic considering third gen direct tivos (the HD ones) have 4 tuners 2 sat and 2 OTA perfect for that HDTV NBC feed.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[larryj]

That sounds exactly like the DirecTiVo (technically: DirectTV DVR I think). 2 tuners so you can record 2 shows at once, even while watching something previously recorded.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[nighty5]

I just looked at the Tivo website and the online flash demo, it appears you can record TV a set time (1 min - 60 mins etc) before and after the scheduled time.....

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[Anonymous Coward]

TiVo listings show NBC shows as starting at :01 or :31 and the recorder accepts this as valid. however, i'm not too sure about what kind of effect this will have on recording something that starts 1 min before the NBC show ends.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[RichMeatyTaste]

My Hughes dual tuner DirecTivo box laughs at NBC.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[AnswerIs42]

Are you sure of that? I have not had any problems, other than it chopping off because it went longer than should. But, to be honest... other than news and some SNL.. I rarely watch NBC. Hmm, now that I think on it.. I rarely watch ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox anymore..

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[Fiddy]

The thing is... multiple tuners wouldn't really help TiVo users with digital cable (which I'm guessing makes up a larger percentage of their users as time passes). Not only would it need 2 tuners, but it would need to control 2 digital cable boxes (and the owner would have to have 2 digital cable boxes, paying even more per month to the cable company). Current TiVo's are actually not far from being able to do this (they can control a digital cable box and a satellite box at the same time I believe, but only record from one at a time). The setup hassle of all the extra cables, and the extra fee to the cable company is why I say this is bad for digital cable TiVo users.

A much cleaner/nicer implementation in my opinion would be if TiVo came out with a box that had the digital cable box built into it. With that, you only need a single cable input into the box, getting rid of the digital cable boxes and all of the extra wiring they would require (and not pay the monthly equipment rental fee to the cable company). Then it should be fairly simple to record 2 (or even more?) shows at once.

But then of course you come to the whole problem with cable companies not completely following the standards that would allow this to work. At least... I seem to remember hearing that they were not following the standard completely, with the usual conspiracy theories that it's due to them trying to prevent users from buying equipment elsewhere and not paying the equipment rental fee. I'm certain someone on here will correct me if I'm wrong.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[mbourgon]

If only digital cable was actually digital cable. At least where I am (Charter), the first 100 channels are normal, OTA. Nothing special needed. Above 100 you need their decoder box, and at that point you're (theoretically) stuck taping one program. But, that leaves you one digital channel to tape, and one tuner for regular programming.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[LordKronos]

That isn't the problem at all. The TiVo guide data already contains correct times for these shows, so the TiVo already knows too start recording the show at 9:59 or whatever. The problem is when you also record another show on another channel immediately before it, say one that runs from 9:00-10:00. From 9:59 to 10:00, you have this one minute period where the 2 shows overlap. Since Tivo can only record one show at a time, and since it has no option for only recording part of a show, you are forced to pick one show or the other to record. Of course, you can set up a manual recording for 9:00-9:59 and let it pick up the 9:59-11:00 automatically, but thats a bit more of a hassle and it defeats the purpose of TiVo's automatic scheduling feature.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[GeorgeH]

NBC has been doing this for quite a while, well before TiVo came out. The recent change wasn't with the shows, but with their guide data to reflect the reality of the situation. They do this to keep people watching NBC once they start.

Before the guide data was fixed, shows would get cut off because of NBC's screwy primetime timing. TiVo simply codifies the desired result: watching NBC because you (or your TiVo) started watching it.

NBC is an investor in TiVo (which is why you see so many "Thumbs Up To Record" widgets on ads for their shows) so it would seem dumb for them to try and fight it. Not that I would base my argument on the logic of the entertainment industry...

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[ciscoeng]

It's called Turner-Time (for Ted Turner). His tv network has been doing this for years. They usually bump the shows about 5 minutes.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[mrbuttboy]

This maybe to give TiVo a hard time but for me my first thought was, "Well,CBS's 9:30 show is fucked."

Joe User has ER season pass. Joe see a show on another network at 9:30 and tries to record it. TiVo complains because of the time. Joe says it is too much work to try and watch a show he doesnt even know he will like. Or maybe joe just sets the CBS show as a lower season pass, never to be recorded by TiVo and to die a painful death.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[bryan314]

Actually the tivo user are so pissed they are just cancelling the NBC shows. Works out better for CBS.

Bryan :)

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually it's not to piss off Tivo users, though thats a side effect, as NBC has a stake in tivo. Like the previous poster said, it's to run a few minutes over, and keep you tuned to nbc instead of switching to abc, or cbs, since the nbc show already ran over soem people might not want to miss the beginnign of another networks show. It's stupid.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[777333ddd]

The DirecTV receivers with TiVo includes TWO tuners so this is not a problem at all for those models. It's a really nice feature of these receivers. Not sure why only DirecTV customers can use them. d

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[Radius9]

Most TiVo's don't have a tuner at all. It uses IR or serial to change the channels on your satellite or cable box. Because it uses the cable/satellite box to tune, you would need to own 2 cable satellite boxes to tape 2 shows at once. That is why only the integrated DirecTV/TiVo boxes have 2 or more tuners, becuase they can put into one box.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[Johnny Mnemonic]

This could be NBC shooting themselves in the foot. For example, if I have a program on Fox that runs during a normal time frame with a higher priority than a later show on NBC--the whole hour of NBC gets bumped, as the Fox show will supercede the NBC show, even though the overlap is only a minute. So NBC loses my viewing hour--not that they care much anyways, maybe, since I skip through the ads. But if they want to discourage TiVo taping, then why are they the only ones offering a TivoMatic option?

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[clontzman]

What's funny is that NBC seems to also be working *with* TiVo, as during commercials for new NBC programs they're sending a signal that makes "Press Thumbs Up to Record" flash on the screen so you can automatically add it to your TiVo To-Do list. Interesting stuff.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[whyde]

Ted Turner originated this idea back when TBS started broadcasting the starts of every show at 5 minutes past the hour. The thinking was that during most network content's first commercial break, people flipped around. TBS was the only network which showed the beginning of a new show during that window of opportunity.

And, it also made it difficult to get back away from TBS since at the end of a show, you have just missed the beginnings of all other network's programs because you wanted to watch the end of the TBS program.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[TexVex]

Not only that, but it captures the digital data stream directly from the satellite. So, all DirecTiVos have 100% recording quality -- watching something prerecorded looks and sounds exactly as if you're watching the channel live. DirecTiVo is love!

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[esswedl]

All TiVos have a tuner. Many of the tuners are unused, perhaps, with a particular person's TiVo box controlling a satellite or cable box by IR or serial--but the TiVo still has an OTA tuner in it, and could tune basic cable or from an antenna if it were so hooked up. (I don't know about the DirecTiVo, though--maybe it doesn't have a standard tuner, only the pair of DirecTV tuners.)

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[esswedl]

I think the manual recording is limited to 5-minute increments, forcing you to manually record 9:00-9:55 and probably miss the denouement. To get around this, you can pad the start time on the NBC show, and catch the end of your first show at the beginning of the NBC recording. Of course, the "Start X minutes early" option also has odd minute increments--I think it goes 1, 2, 3, 5, so you're forced to use "3" and miss the 9:55-9:56 minute and hope that it falls during a commmercial. Plus the hassle of setting a manual recording AND setting the start padding AND checking the NBC schedule each week to see what weird times are coming up.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[esswedl]

Catching my own mistake: Of course, you won't be able to see the end of your first show during the beginning of the padded NBC show, because the TiVo will have changed channels. Oops. I was thinking of how often the last joke on Friends falls into Scrubs because NBC doesn't even stick to its oddball schedule--if you can say Friends is going to run from 7:00-7:31 PM CST, why not just say 7:00-7:33? Then my Scrubs recording will ONLY have Scrubs in it, and I won't have to save it if I decide to watch Scrubs first but have to keep it around until I watch Friends so I can see the last joke--a tiny waste of hard drive space, a huge minor annoyance.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[jgordon7]

Because with the DirecTivos, they dump the digital stream straight to the HD without decoding it. This greatly simplifies the process so adding a second DirecTV reciever unit is really not expenisive. It on has ONE decoder which means you can only watch ONE show at a time (like most humans). The standalone units have to encode the analog data before putting in on the HD, so they would need an encoder for each stream (note even with digital cable it enters the Tivo in analog form).

DirecTivos do NOT have encoders in them, they also can not adjust the quality level since they store all the shows at the same quailty they recieve the data from DirecTV. Makes for a much cleaner setup, and better picture quality.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[travisd]

Maybe because DirecTivo doesn't have to encode to MPEG? That's not a cheap thing to do so being able to just grab the already encoded stream and save to disk makes having two tuners possible. OTOH, a two-tuner standalone Tivo would need two MPEG encoders which means cost for the hardware and licensing (MP4 isn't free IIRC...)

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[Anonymous Coward]

With the new "Plug and Play" standards the FCC approved in November, TiVo should be coming out with a digital cable compatible 2-tuner unit soon - probably by the next holiday season.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[jandrese]

Even more important, at least with the Digital Cable around here, is that there is nothing in the digital realm that is interesting to watch anyway. All of the interesting channels are down in the analog bands where you don't need the cable box.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[cayenne8]

Hehe...TBS was doing this years ago...ALL their programming was like 5 min. off. I dunno if they still do it or not...

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[babyrat]

but if other channels start doing this, the Tivo won't work well unless I just record from one channel per night.

Actually the more channels that do this the more options you would have. If ALL of them did it, then it would be no different from the good old days when they started right on the hour (or half hour).

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't an Anti-Tivo move. It is a revenue boosting move. They add a minute or two to shows that sell commercials for the big bucks. They take it away from the shows that aren't as expensive.

If NBC gets 2x as much from ER as whatever is before it, then it makes sense to play little scheduling games to have more commercials during ER.

Tivo probably has very little to do with it (there aren't that many of us).

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[dspyder]

You're absolutely right. Even with the two tuners it's difficult to record any NBC shows on a Thursday night. If a conflict comes up I remove the NBC show (that often messes up two other recordings).

The good side effect of this is that we are no longer taping Friends! My wife realized at about 8:45 last night that the new Friends hadn't been taped, but when I told her she'd have to miss CSI in order to tape Friends she let it go.

NBCs loss, my gain! When Survivor comes back on, we might be forced to lose ER as well since it's starting at 9:59.

--D

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[Anonymous Coward]

Comcast has this already...I just got a PVR/cable box that has two tuners...so you can record two programs while watching a recorded one, or watch one program while you're recording it plus recording another program. It works pretty well, though not as well as TiVo, but they say you cannot record Video-On-Demand using it.

I use my TiVo with digital cable, and it seems to work out ok, though its true you must tune to the one channel while recording it, or watch something you've already recorded while you're recording something else.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[mog]

My solution was to get rid of expanded cable. It's all "local" channels for me now. I've found that my TV viewing time remained about the same, and I get the same enjoyment out of it. $10/month for cable is certainly fair. As a movie lover, I find paying that $10/month for cable and $30/month for netflix gives me a lot more bang for my buck than $50 or $60/month for movie channels. Excuse me while I make sweet, sweet love to my TiVo. Erm..

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[javaxman]

Clearly a lot of folks have already mentioned this, but...

1) there's a feature on the Tivo where you can tell it to "start early" when recording a particular show, you tell it how many minutes... it also lets you record past the scheduled end of a show, too.

2) dual-tuner Tivos work around the two-programs-one-right after-another problem, though you apparently don't get that option with Cable Tivo2 ( one word : DirecTV ).

3) how important is the first minute of most shows, anyway?

I'm not so sure they're trying to "defeat Tivo" as much as "make sure you tune in early for extra commercials and the end of that other show they really want you to watch". Or maybe even "didn't sell that other commercial slot"...

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[Chester K]

Basically, I just watch less of NBC now

Any network that would deliberatly go out of their way just to screw up my recording setup is one that I won't watch.

Remove your local NBC affiliate from your TiVo's "Channels I Receive" list and you won't even get screwed by them with TiVo Suggestions.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[wizzy99]

If you have shell access to your tivo, check out this thread for a script that allows you to do negative padding. I use it to start certain recordings late/end them early.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature

[Anonymous Coward]

> How about Tivo stick more than one TV demodulator in the box?

You generally can't do that, because the vast majority of people in the US with cable are chained to their deconverters. In order to record more than one show at a time, you'd need two cable boxes. We (I work for a large US-based cable company) charge more per month for extra cable boxes than they're worth, so I don't see any market whatsoever for something that would cost that huge amount of money per month.

Leaving TiVo

[maroberts]

I have a TiVo but suspect that I will be discontinuing with their service sometime this year. Its not because I dislike my TiVo either; its given good service, but the times they are a changin'

The reason I'm migrating is because I suspect that MythTv and similar Open source projects may offer me the same functionality just for the cost of my net connection

Re:Leaving TiVo

[BigHungryJoe]

Does MythTV have anything like the Home Media Option? I'm pretty excited about the DVD burning potential there.

As to the cost of TiVo, yes that does bother me. In particular, the fact that a lifetime subscription is only good for the life of the particular TiVo for which you bought it. In my experience, TiVo's just aren't durable enough to ever merit the purchase of the lifetime subscription. That makes MythTV most appealing to me.

Re:Leaving TiVo

[krymsin01]

Uh, yeah....

How about being able to access all of your media on a NFS share, for one. Or a samba share if you prefer Windows...

Re:Leaving TiVo

[Anonymous Coward]

Does MythTV have anything like the Home Media Option? I'm pretty excited about the DVD burning potential there.

MythTV is TiVo on steroids. It's not for newbies though so I won't even pretend to suggest your dear Aunt Ida can go install her own without spending 8 hours of your time setting it up. For those of us who like working on fun projects with Linux though it's a blast. This weekend I'll be building my new MythTV backend server with dual Hauppauge PVR 250 cards, a 3ware 8506-4lp SATA raid controller, and four 200GB Maxtor (quiet fluid dynamic bearings) SATA drives. I haven't decided whether to go with RAID-5 or RAID-0 yet so I'll have somewhere between 600GB and 800GB of space for recordings. At 2200bps and 480x480 resolution my testing with the PVR-250 has given me files about 1.2GB/hour. I may crank it up to 3300bps to get around 1.6GB/hour and deal with that for improved mpeg-2 quality.

Anyway, if you're not interesting in Linux projects stick with a TiVo. MythTV has a DVD player (and ripper) modules, MythMusic for playing mp3, ogg, flac, etc. as well as ripping CDs to ogg, mp3, or flac format, MythWeather gets weather channel maps for your area and displays the weather forecast, MythGame interfaces to MAME under Linux to play games, MythVideo provides a nice interface for playing DivX or other movie files and ties into IMDB to download cover art for movies it can recognize by title (i.e. if you have a waterboy divx file it'll search for it on IMDB and prompt you if what it found is correct, then from then on it'll associate cover art with that file and a summary and synopsis. It's quite nice. Oh yea, and remote real-time scheduling and control over your recordings (delete, browse, etc.) via mythweb. Don't take my word for it, just go to www.mythtv.org and check it out. It is by far the best open source PVR at the moment and is very mature.

Re:Leaving TiVo

[BigHungryJoe]

Uh, HMO is quite a bit more than file sharing.

Re:Leaving TiVo

[RichMeatyTaste]

Key point: "May offer you"

You need to look at it from the Joe Sixpack point of view. The Tivo works out of the box, with little setup. The device succeeds because it works so well, and is so simple.

My dual tuners (with the ability to record 2 channels *and* watch an already recorded show at the same time) are reason enough to keep my box. Plus, the service only costs me 4.95 a month, and it automatically picks up schedule changes.

Re:Leaving TiVo

[cuban321]

Yes. It works with all digital cable, satellite, standard cable and even just local channels. It uses XMLTV to interface with I believe TVGUIDE (In the states).

Re:Leaving TiVo

[PyromanFO]

Uh, HMO is quite a bit more than file sharing.

Like what?

Re:Leaving TiVo

[TellarHK]

I just got a ReplayTV unit last week (and found out I was getting laid off for a month the day after - all the better to spend time watching TV with, I guess) and am quite happy with it. It may not be linux based like a TiVo, but they don't try and rope you in with the $99 "option" to make it integrate with the rest of the house. In the long run, I think the recent change in ReplayTV's pricing model will do some serious damage to TiVo simply due to the fact that I don't see any flaws in Replay's system other than not being #1 in the market.

There are even tools for the Replay like DVArchive (hosted on sourceforge) that let you stream shows from the ReplayTV onto your computer, and even download them. That, for me was the true selling point.

For months, my roommate and I had tried to put something together with MythTV but kept running into problem after problem after problem. We didn't get the right TV card the first time, and the one we got next didn't seem to perform all that smoothly. Finding an IR blaster someplace other than mail order was next to impossible, etc. We just kept having bad luck. Worst of all, when we did get MythTV working, the output quality on the TV screen after it was piped through the PC was just horrible and couldn't be decently boosted by us even on a P4 1.6.

However, I would still love for MythTV to be the centerpiece of our home system. In fact, I even have a rather interesting application in mind. If I can somehow manage to get back into any actual programming while I'm temporarily out of work, I'd like to see about integrating the ReplayTV to MythTV with something like a DVArchive plugin. (Though DVArchive source isn't available yet - the last version got badly b0rked in CVS apparently)

What makes my hopes and dreams for total integration truly intriguing is the fact I have a 14" touchscreen monitor for controlling the linux PC with. If we can only get a touchscreen interface that still displays all the actual media on the TV in a crisp, clear format, and integrates with the ReplayTV for scheduling, recording and playback... We'd have a work of art.

Re:Leaving TiVo

[rusty0101]

Per the TiVo web site, HMO consists of the following: Digital Music, Digital Photos, and web scheduling.

MythTV does have all of this, as well as features that are not in TiVo, such as IMDB interaction. If you see a movie title you are not sure about, and the description is not sufficient, click on the IMDB search link, select the right year, and you have far more detail about them than TiVo will produce.

Motion is included as well. Get a USB Cam, plug it in, activate Motion, see what was happening in the living room while you were out.

There is a lot of work to be done yet. Actor and genra searching still has work to be done. I don't know if there will ever be a "other viewers who liked the shows you regularly record also liked..." feature.

I finally got my own pvr build using knoppmyth ( http://www.mysettopbox.tv ) Notes in my Journal...

Re:Leaving TiVo

[ClioCJS]

I prefer 512x384 to 480x480 but 640x480 would be best of all. My radeon could do that before it broke.

Re:Leaving TiVo

[pjp6259]

This is a nitpick, but with 4 200GB drives, Raid 5 will net you 600GB and Raid 0 will net you 400GB.

Re:Leaving TiVo

[akb]

I agree, one of the biggest disappoints in the commercial PVR options is their unwillingness to allow independent content to be on their devices.

I've heard its possible with an external program (that was probably written by an insider) with ReplayTV.

Re:Leaving TiVo

[Anonymous Coward]

> 4 200GB drives, Raid 5 will net you 600GB and Raid 0 will net you 400GB.

Wow, you'd expect someone on a site for geeks to be able to do simple multiplication. 4 * 200 does not equal 400! It's 800GBytes for RAID 0, not 400.

Re:Leaving TiVo

[pjp6259]

Sorry, I assumed the original poster was doing the RAID for reliablility, and so I was thinking RAID 1 instead of RAID 0 (RAID 0 offers no data backup). RAID 0 is of course 4*200=800, RAID 1 would be 4*200/2 = 400.

TivoToGo?

[ptomblin]

There are already third party applications that let you take TiVo "streams" and watch them on your PC or burn them to DVD - I'm on the verge of buying a TiVoNet card for this very purpose. Does anybody know if this new service is going to make TiVo lock out those free applications?

Re:TivoToGo?

[Anonymous Coward]

the new tivo services will most likely be accompanied by a new software version. the current tivo "ripping" techniques take advantage of the file system. so unless they change the way they write to disk (invalidating all your prior recordings) you should still be able to "rip" from your tivo after the introduction of the new services.

Re:TivoToGo?

[spoot]

I really love my TiVo. I got the damn thing as a gift about a year ago and almost sent it back because of the subscription fees. But I hooked it up anyway. Sure as hell glad I did. I can't imagine watching the tube without it. I hope that the software for "TiVoToGo" works with a Mac. The press release doesn't seem to indicate it will. Ripping video with a Mac now from your TiVo is so convoluted that it makes it almost pointless. I, as with many other consumers I would imagine, just want to transfer shows to my computer to watch the damn things on the road. I hate to pay more for the feature, but I would for the convenience. Am I pissed that transferring non DRM video isn't easily transferable to my laptop as a standard mpeg file, hell yes. But in the end I just want it to work.

Re:TivoToGo?

[Uteck]

I read the press release, and it will only work with Series2, and you have to buy the windowz software seperatly, in addition to the Home Media Option.
Over all, everything that was announced is still not enough to convince me to get the Home Media Option.
HMO, that does does not bode well with me. I am scrounging parts, and will try building a MythTV box for the upstairs tv. If it works well I might regret getting the lifetimeservice with TiVo, but then the service has been good and it could not be simpler to use.

Re:TivoToGo?

[dbrower]

There are already third party applications that let you take TiVo "streams" and watch them on your PC or burn them to DVD - I'm on the verge of buying a TiVoNet card for this very purpose. Does anybody know if this new service is going to make TiVo lock out those free applications?

It's always been a possibility. No one has figured out how to get content off a series 2 DirecTivo yet, as far as I know. They know how to make it difficult, they just haven't yet. It's clear from their statements in many forums that they are not going to fight the content providers like Sonic Blue was. Tivo is going to cooperate, and consumers will either tolerate the restrictions on the service, or not.

-dB

Perhaps a new method for advertisment supported TV

[ZombieEngineer]

I am probably going to be branded a troll for this but...

A lot of TV programs are supported by advertisments (no brainer), the other option is a hideously high (relatively) subscription cost for an advert free video stream. With the latest developments with video recording it forces a change in the business model for the media industry.

If we assume that adverts are required to support our favourite programs (a necessary evil), is there a way to have our recording devices to select our prefered category of advertising?, eg: we prefer to see adds for tech gadgets over medical products over personal injury lawyers.

The selection of the order for the adverts could be done using a statistical method (show four random categories, ask the user to chose the most prefered and least prefered advert categories, repeat 20 times).

This will result in better product placement to people who are willing to consider your product. Hence a 25 year old will never see a Fixodent (denture glue) advert because his recorder will steer away from those adverts, the current alternative is the advert is simply totally ignored by the viewer and does nothing but increase the resentment of adverts.

ZombieEngineer

What is TiVo?

[City Jim 3000]

I've seen much "TiVo" stuff on /. but I've failed to understand what it is. Is this an US-only thing?

Re:What is TiVo?

[MGDruss]

No, I'm in the UK and have got one. Wireless networked it up to my broadband connection as well, and installed TivoWeb so I can control it from work (although can't watch any of the programs). It's very good, but didn't really catch on in the UK. I don't think you can buy it new any more, but you can pick up some second hand ones on eBay.

Re:What is TiVo?

[City Jim 3000]

Ok. Did my Googling and... wow! It's even decently priced!

I still don't understand the issues with TiVo though. And what differs it from a DVD recorder except for the amount of storage?

Re:What is TiVo?

[rleyton]

The real shame in the UK is - from conversations with techie friends and colleagues - it had just started to really catch on when they dinged it. Now Sky+ seems to be the market leader but, of course, requires a Sky subscription.

Re:What is TiVo?

[MGDruss]

TiVo is better than a DVD recorder, but there is also Sky+ as an option. Here's a good article describing the pros & cons http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/article.php3?story_ id=1256&section=Reviews&slashSess=61591921eb04d744 56a7cec2784f01d2 The main feature that I really like (and you get with Sky+ as well) is that it 'knows' what's on TV. Just a few clicks and it will record all the episodes of your favourite program. Also, it records other things that it thinks you might like.

Re:What is TiVo?

[kent_eh]

Us and UK only.

I am getting pretty tired of hearing about how great it is, since they won't sell them here.

Re:What is TiVo?

[wayner9]

If you are a slashdot reader you likely have the skills to make it work in Canada. Buy a Series 1 TiVo from ebay and go to here http://www.tivocanada.com.

major newclear power offering incentives?

[Anonymous Coward]

survival. that's the big won of course. comes with it.

this stuff is unbreakable, & wwworks on/in several (more than 3) dimensions. it's also free, as in staying alive.

you won't be needing any payper gadgets to be able to detect the direction of the wwwinds of change, which are bullowing at gale force/farce. tell 'em robbIE?

Tivo + P2P

[vpscolo]

I was thinking last night it would be cool if with the takeup of broadband, and some decent licensing why couldn't tivo connect to a P2P network so you could watch someone else recording of someone and have it streamed from multiple Tivo to yours. That way you could watch the programs you missed Rus

Wake up Tivo

[Sandman1971]

It's time for Tivo to wake up. Hey Tivo.. what about releasing your sweet products in Canada so we Canadian geeks can enjoy your fine stuff! There's a high enough demand up here! It's time to stopp sitting on your brains and release Tivo in Canada!

Re:Wake up Tivo

[ThePretender]

insert obligatory mad cow, South Park, and/or 'Canadian Bacon' reference here. :-) Just kidding, we love ya Canada and I think you deserve Tivo too.

Re:Wake up Tivo

[iantri]

For Canadians who want TiVo like service, MythTV works up here. It pulls listings from XMLTV which supports Canada.

Now my problem is to get it to work for my antenna AND my C-BAND satellite...

Re:Wake up Tivo

[PunkPig]

Yes, we do need Tivo in Canada. If they do not act soon they may miss the market.

Expressvu has an overpriced pvr, as does Rogers. Also, Starchoice will have one in "2004". None are/will be as good as Tivo, but I think we know how that battle usually ends up.

Re:Wake up Tivo

[ted_nugent]

You can always get one and scrape your program listings using the hacks at tivocanada.com. That doesn't give you HoMO, though.

Re:Wake up Tivo

[Anonymous Coward]

They will when you guys stop spelling stop "stopp"!

Re:Wake up Tivo

[jchernia]

It's not all Tivo's fault. The DirecTivo isn't usable in Canada because DirecTv isn't legal in Canada.

The stated reason is that the Canadian government doesn't want Canadians to become to "Americanized" by watching American TV.

It's for your own good, trust them.

Re:Wake up Tivo

[akb]

The Australians seem to have figured out how to get Tivo to work with XMLTV and notably w/o a subscription, see wktivoguide. It shouldn't be too hard to adapt this to CA.

Re:Wake up Tivo

[Sandman1971]

It's not all Tivo's fault. The DirecTivo isn't usable in Canada because DirecTv isn't legal in Canada.

Huh? What does DirectTV have to do with it?

From the Tivo website:
Works with everything: cable, digital cable, satellite, antenna, and combinations

We have cable providers(Rogers, Shaw, Cogeco, Videotron, etc...), satellite providers (Express-Vu, Starchoice) and antenna feeds. Tivo could easilly release a "Canadian version" that works with our own cable/satellite/UHF/VHF providers/feeds. Hell, it does so in the UK already ;)

The stated reason is that the Canadian government doesn't want Canadians to become to "Americanized" by watching American TV

Again, why does this matter, as a Canadian-released Tivo would work with our existing providers. And hell, I have digital cable, and most channels are either American (TechTV, TLC, A&E etc..) or carry 30-95% American shows (especially in primetime). So again, what does that have to do with anything?

Re:Linux and Tivo at the CES

[BigHungryJoe]

the unit is slower than heck when you're scrolling the show listings or surfing between channels. Overall, I'm OK with it, but the slowness is frustrating

True that. I don't know about the rest of this post, but this part isn't a troll, just fact.

Want to make the listings really slow? Hit the enter button to change your listing options and choose the grid layout. It takes 5 seconds to draw the grid.

Re:Linux and Tivo at the CES

[chadm1967]

I don't understand how you can say that Linux has a ways to go in the consumer electronics field? In your long post, you mentioned many companies that are basing their products off of Linux but simply didn't advertise the fact. Just because a company doesn't announce that they are using Linux doesn't mean Linux has a long way to go.

Digital Cable

[Detritus]

What I am waiting for is a PVR with an integrated digital cable tuner. The chips are available, someone just has to build it.

Re:Digital Cable

[radish]

I guess they aren't in your area but they are in many - I've had one for a few months now. Time Warner are rolling them out over all their networks. They're not bad, but nowhere near as polished as Tivo.

Re:Digital Cable

[javaxman]

Call your cable company. This is up to them. Tivo would do it in a heartbeat, but the cable company has a lock on what box you get, and aside from using an external Tivo2, which DOES work with most cable boxes, what you can get is determined exclusively by your cable company. They need to do a licensing and development deal with Tivo !

Wait just a minute. You call yourself a geek and you don't want to have one more box in your A/V cabinet, even if it's a PowerPC Linux machine? Get off SlashDot, Detritus, you clearly don't belong here !! ;-)

Re:Digital Cable

[Detritus]

The cable company doesn't have to be the one that provides the equipment. There is an open standard for digital cable. Television sets are already being introduced with integrated digital cable tuners. The cable company supplies a security module that plugs into the tuner.

Re:Digital Cable

[doormat]

Scientific atlanta 8000.

Anti-anti-NBC feature

[Anonymous Coward]

I just don't watch any of their crappy shows. Now that I think about it, the same goes for CBS and ABC.

Re:Linux and Tivo at the CES

[TehHustler]

Frankly, I fail to see why this has been modded as a troll. It's an opinion, and a bloody good one at that. Mods, put personal feelings aside please. Just because you don't agree, doesn't make it a bad post.

It's perfectly legal

[Ath]

There is a legal concept called "fair use". Just as your can use a VCR to record your favorite tv show, you have the same right to do this with radio. The US Supreme Court has continually reinforced this right of individuals over copyright restrictions.

The problem is that the media companies want to 1) put barriers up to prevent this fair use and 2) create an atmosphere where people actually believe it is illegal and that there is no fair use right.

It looks like they are succeeding for the average user. For the rest of us, the media companies can go screw themselves. I will copy my DVDs for backup, strip the encryption off so I can watch them under non-authorized media players and refuse to purchase any medium where these things aren't possible.

Re:It's perfectly legal

[GoRK]

You do have Fair Use going for you with broadcast stations. Unfortunately, though you have to agree to XM's service agreement in order to subscribe to the service, and you waive that right in the agreement. "But you still have it!" you might say. Think of this - It's kind of akin to how signing an NDA or a confidentiality agreement with your employer that limits your (supposedly very basic American) right of "free speech." If you don't like the agreement, ask them to change it, don't subscribe to the service, or seek an alternative. Sirius has a similar no-record clause also, so your alternative choices are somewhat limited.

It sounds like they are probably willing to make an exception for the TiVo thing, though. XM has shown themselves to be fairly progressive, at least compared to their competition who is still begging money heavily, so it's good to see them open up to the idea of time shifting rather than go all apeshit about it.

~GoRK

Re:It's perfectly legal

[Anonymous Coward]

Go, Ath!

Very well stated, and especially perceptive in terms of your second point, that there is a concerted effort underway to make people THINK they don't have rights that they do. Bravo.

And I'm with you, my purchasing decisions have long reflected a refusal to buy DRM products, period. If the President wants to stimulate the US economy, all he needs to do is outlaw DRM and overeturn the DMCA. New business models would spring up overnight and industry would be that much stronger than it was before.

Until that time, sorry, but I don't buy crippleware.

Re:Linux and Tivo at the CES

[Anonymous Coward]

I guarantee that guy has never been near CES. Thats his first post and his username is "Eric S Rayrnond" Its a classic Slashdot Linux troll. If thats not a troll I dont know what is.

What pisses me off ...

[ubrgeek]

... is that, if I read the PR release correctly, the HD version is only for DirectTV. Tivo promised us one last year (in fact the promise may have been made at last year's CES, as I seem to recall it happening in January 2003) but never delivered. I can't take advantage of the (meager) HDTV offering Comcast sells because the Tivo can't capture HDTV broadcasts.

Re:What pisses me off ...

[WebGangsta]

Granted, when TiVo announced last year that they were going to have an HD-compatible version, we all assumed that it would be a standalone version.

Some cable companies are offering their own PVRs that will support HD. Unfortunately, those specs indicate that those drives will only hold about 8-10 hours of HD programming (memory says it was an 80GB drive, but I could be wrong on that). See the Motorola/Time Warner Cable website or the Comcast PVR website for further details.

Re:What pisses me off ...

[swb]

Current DirecTivos directly record the satellite stream to hard disk. They don't have to do any of the "heavy lifting" required to encode the streams, and decoding is handled by the decoder already part of the DirecTivo box used for watching live TV.

A standalone HD Tivo would require component inputs (for broadest compatibility, perhaps an optional DVI connector as well), and require a lot more heavy lifting to encode those streams onto HD. This would in effect require a better computer than they're using now in any standalone HD Tivo. IIRC there aren't any high-volume low-cost HD compression chipsets out there like there are for standard def MPEG2.

If they're around long enough, the new rules requiring access to digital cable in consumer boxes like TVs, VCRs, etc, will enable Tivo to provide a standalone that works as a digital cable capable box. This will enable them to do the same direct stream recording that they do on DirecTivos now, and probably make it possible to do multiple tuner standalones as well.

The issue, though, is time, as I don't expect to see the new digital cable capable devices until 2005 at the earliest, as I think there's some cable head-end compatibility integration, meaning your cable company can drag its feet until 2006 or so.

Re:What pisses me off ...

[rocur]

Unless Tivo has gone out of their way to prevent it, the HD Tivo will record over-the-air digital TV (both SD and HD) just fine without having a DirectTV subscription. The HD Tivo contains 4 tuners, 2 for DirectTV and 2 for digital TV. It won't work for non-digital signals because there is no provision for receiving and encoding those.

Re:What pisses me off ...

[aclute]

DirecTv said that the box will not work as a standalone -- it must be an active sat receiver

Re:What pisses me off ...

[aclute]

TiVo offered a reference design 12-months ago for any CE manufacturer to license. No one bit on it -- so TiVo assumes (probably right) that the market for a SA HD box is not there yet.

Re:What pisses me off ...

[Quikah]

You don't need any inputs, just save the ATSC stream from the air directly to the HD. That is how the current crop of ATSC PCI cards work.

I currently have a MyHD card, it works well, but I would love to get a TiVo with the same functionality because the interface is clunky on the MyHD compared to TiVo.

Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[I-R-Baboon]

When there are lots of free alternatives out there which use Linux and bring you all the features of your PC such as DVD burners and internet access and RAID arrays of 120GB HDs for plenty of recording. (Damn Discovery Science Channel and History International and...)

I personally feel TiVO is a dead company as it's idea was great but can be offered with nearly as many options and more if you are Code/Script inclined. So look for cheap 400Mhz system to start on and enjoy personalized TV in most countries.

Translation for the Technically Challenged(MBA): Liquidate TIVO from your portfolio.

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[entrigant]

So because the code/script inclined can produce a home built system with slightly less polish then tivo, their entire business model is flawed and they are a dead company? Interesting reasoning to say the least... You even go on to give financial advice based on this assumption. God help those that take it to heart.

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[dreamchaser]

Exactly. It was a bit like saying 'OMG, did you know there are kits out there that people can build cars with??? Liquidate GM!

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you followed the links, you would see there are exitisting projects and as with Open Source projects you have a global community that can contribute THUS the code/script inclined. Now take the rise of Linux, free OS ever being polished, and the fact MS reported their first flat quarter...can you at least do that math? Maybe you should make an example and try to go into business and compete with something free, say sell open air we all breathe anyway? (Means of air delivery or transport could be profitable oh wait...thats the point this posting highlights if you are bright enough to understand what you are reading!)

If you are going to try to read inbetween the lines, don't be a functionally illiterate PUTZ.

Mental Midget.

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[AnswerIs42]

That's nice.

Can you make all those fancy scripts, apps and hardware work with DirecTV?

Already looked into it, nope.

So, TiVo isn't going anywhere for a while. Besides, 149$ for a tivo... CAN you build a setup that cheap to make it even worth while?

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have car kits ever posted a threat to the car market because they are a FREE alternative?

Go be stupid elsewhere.

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is MythTV posing [not posting] a threat to TiVO because it's a free alternative?

Go be stupid elsewhere

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[PunkPig]

Liquidate McDonalds from your portfolio

Did you know that there are many free alternatives to McDonalds hamburgers?

What with the ground beef, buns, cheese, etc.

So look for a cheap hotplate and frypan and enjoy hamburgers!

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[dreamchaser]

Oh you mean if I download an Open Source Tivo alternative, the project team will buy me the computer and TV card to run it on? Neat! I'm going to grab MythTV right now!!

Think a little next time :)

I also didn't say that OSS PVR's were a bad idea, just that they were not a threat to the business model.

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[I-R-Baboon]

Wouldn't take Satellite "No TV when wind is blowing and/or sun is shining" if it was free for life...so never looked into it and don't really care to tell you the truth. Sorry.

I could build a better setup for more, but won't be paying for a "Lifetime Subscription" or 12 bux a month for life with only means of adding more space or features available is...buy a whole new unit instead of a piece of hardware or adding a new script. Same for improving performance of the system, upgrade mainboard/CPU and shouldn't have to do it again a year later AND than pay even more than the first time being lured in.

Long term is what I am thinking about here given trends regarding these types of services. Being Open Source, it is very possible of course to add compatibility for Satellite TV barring the reason there is none already is your provider locks down things requiring hacking and DMCA bullshit. Is it perfect now, of course not. Neither was Linux in the 2.0.x kernel days but now it is a solution being adopted by entire countries in contrast to forking out milions to M$ just to be crippled by the next virus. Ever thought about trying to make the contribution to these projects instead of trolling on /.?

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[Violet Null]

You seem to be laboring under some preconceived misnotions.

Wouldn't take Satellite "No TV when wind is blowing and/or sun is shining" if it was free for life...so never looked into it and don't really care to tell you the truth. Sorry.

My satellite has gone out far, far less than my cable ever did. In the ~4 months or so I've had satellite, it's gone out for about 20 minutes once. With cable, it was not uncommon for it to be down hours each month.

But, hey, if you like to believe that things are the way they are without actually investigating them, more power to you.

I could build a better setup for more, but won't be paying for a "Lifetime Subscription" or 12 bux a month for life with only means of adding more space or features available is...buy a whole new unit instead of a piece of hardware or adding a new script.

I was rather unaware that it was impossible to add more space to a TiVo. I bet that would really surprise everyone who's done it! You should go tell them. They should be most impressed.

And, as for cost, yes. Much better to have a $500 computer with a $100 video card than $250 for a TiVo. Why, at that rate, it might take 2.5 years for the TiVo to cost as much.

Same for improving performance of the system, upgrade mainboard/CPU and shouldn't have to do it again a year later AND than pay even more than the first time being lured in.

That's funny. I could swear that people often complain about needing to upgrade incessently as a hallmark of the PC, not the consumer appliance.

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[dspyder]

Where's the $99 or free w/ contract hardware and zero maintenance or tinkering in that equation?

Get that and you've got yourself a deal!

Or better yet, put your software stuff on their cheap/reliable box and you've got a deal!

--Darren

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bull. I just bought a DirectTivo--Bottom line, they give me a device that looks like any other component (no, I don't want to run an AMD-based PC in the cabinet below my TV) with a solid remote for $60. You going to put together a PC with free software for $60? The service is dynamically updated via the Satellite signal, so it doesn't tie up my phone lines or my LAN connection downloading scads of data. It's remote is responsive, and it's guide is easy to use. It may not be as feature rich as some of the open source products--that said, I am a geek--even I don't want a Linux PC sitting in my living room that I must activley hack and maintain. I want a device, dude...and I'm willing to pay for it. Tivo kicks ass, especially paired with DirectTV.

I know lots of folks that have gone the do it yourself route and I know lots of folks that have Tivo. One of those groups still enjoy watching TV, and it isn't the do it your selfers.

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[entrigant]

Dumping tivo stock now. If only I had realized mythtv had a larger market share..

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[giz]

I've had DirectTV for over 5 years now. Since I live atop a canyon ridge in Los Angeles, once and a while during extreme winds, the picture will skip a bit. Also if it's delugging rain, this can also happen. Obviously in SoCal, this doesn't happen very often. I have no idea what you are referring to in regards to sunlight.

In comparison to my years as a Cable subscriber... I can't begin to tell you how much better the picture is, or how much additional programming is available at far less the cost than what was every available to me via cable. Of course I made the switch prior to Digital cable, but I think Sattelite TV is a pretty good example of how much better a service one can receive when market conditions exist, in comparison to a closed/monopoly system.

One issue that you don't address in regards to the "subscription" fee, is that what you are really paying for is an accurate program guide. Aside from the PVR technology, much of what makes Tivo great is the way it makes it easy for me to find programs I'm interested in, or make subscriptions to programs I want to record every "first run" episode of. I don't ever see anyone getting around the need to pay for this type of service. What's the alternative... a "volunteer" service.

"Gee well, the guy that usually types in the guide data for your area went on vacation for two weeks, so unfortunately you all missed the season finale's of Alias and 24. Ooops."

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait?

[riffer]

Translation for the Technically Challenged(MBA): Liquidate TIVO from your portfolio.

"Yes, well, that's the sort of blinkard, Philistine pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage."

Informative? What the frell is informative about this message? Jeez...

Guess what folks: We're geeks. We LIKE to do things our selves. We love to play with computers and scripts and Linux and hardware and ad nauseum. Beeing a geek means "doing it yourself", even for the sort of things our society doesn't think of as DIY.

The other 5 billion people on this planet DO NOT. For every Tivo subscriber who's a hardcore geek, there's going to be a dozen who don't give a shit. They just want it to work. They DO NOT even remotely have the skills or experience needed, and they actually like everything to be in one compact little box.

This sort of pathetic one-eyed, unidirectional mindset is why geeks, no matter how smart, can hardly ever make a real commercial success for themselves. Geeks just can't seem to comprehend the market...

great.......

[the_2nd_coming]

I just bought my Direct Tivo receiver, and if I had waited 6 months, I could have gotten one that was network ready and able to transfer media to my Mac!!!

Re:Linux and Tivo at the CES

[Anonymous Coward]

and no offense, but if you fail to see why its modded troll, you're a bit naive when it comes to slashdot postings. and now we see the effects of people like that getting mod points, trolls like Eric S Rayrnond here get modded up which is one of their primary goals. Though Id rather have Linux trolls than reposters, of course there's a good chance this is a reposting of a Linux troll.

DirecTiVo

[Anonymous Coward]

Buyer beware.

The TiVo intergrated with DirecTV receivers cannot be used in a HMO confguration. I didn't find this out until after I signed a contract. :(

Fucking USB port isn't even powered. :(

Re:DirecTiVo

[cornfed]

Does anyone have any insight into whether or not DirecTV will finally change their policy on this?

I use DirecTV and have a series 1 TiVo, but it's a pain that all these great features are coming down the pike but none of them are available for the likes of me. All TiVo would need to do is partner with another sattelite provider or my local cable company and I would likely jump ship (just in case anyone from DirecTV is reading this).

Re:DirecTiVo

[Anonymous Coward]

Head over to www.dealdatabase.com. Those guys have all the hacks. I'm running a Hughes HDVR2 with a Linksys USB NIC. I use that network connection to extract shows off of my TiVo, and copy shows to my TiVo. I also use it to access the web server running on my TiVo.

The USB ports can be powered, it just takes a little work.

tk

Re:DirecTiVo

[/dev/trash]

The only other provider of DBS is Echostar. Good luck.

Re:DirecTiVo

[foniksonik]

I go with DirecTV as my healthcare provider that I'll be limited to PPO 10 or PPO 20 medical plans? I mean HMOs are so much cheaper these days and I'm young so I don't really need more than emergency care and the occaxional flu shot anyways...

Do you know anything about DirecTV's Dental or Vision plans that we /.ers need to know before we get locked in?

Fun technology but

[3lb4rt0]

with the low quality content of broadcast media why buy one?

I'll just stick to my home cinema and dvd collection for now.

Re:Service Model...blah blah blah

[I-R-Baboon]

Cable companies are very aware of the potential of TiVOisk services and offer DVR for much less than TiVO and no dialing through a phone line, with a DVR box integrated into your Digital Cable box capable of doing HDTV. But from a business standpoint, this could all be hype which would be wasted revenue if they attacked it with billions, especially with Open Source alternatives that are free and not only becoming clones but IMHO better than TiVO.

So if it does catch, you may see XML services included in your Cable TV DVR costs or easy networking to a PC wirelessly from your Digital Cable Box taking HDTV through a DVR. Or maybe what you will see are services related to DVR/Personal TV being offered by companies to fund their programming as opposed to commercials, hell I'd pay five bucks a month just to not see that stupid fucking AOL "movie trailer" commercial.

My $.02, down to the Euro ;)

Re:Linux and Tivo at the CES

[TehHustler]

*sigh* I'm such a Slashdot n00b :-( Apologies.

ReplayTV is alive and well

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

ReplayTV is not out of business. It is currently owned by D&M of Japan (Dennon/Marantz), and doing quite well.

Re:ReplayTV is alive and well

[KUHurdler]

Doing quite well with one exception: Bait and Switch

TiVo viability?

[skidoo2]

NOTE: This is not intended to be a troll or a TiVo slam! I'm sincerely interested in /. opinion.

There are two clear (and in my opinion superior) alternatives to TiVo currently creeping into TiVo's market share:

1. In the less-features-but-easier-to-use department, cable companies (such as mine) are offering a service they're calling "TV On Demand." With my digital cable remote (and no phone connection, and no extra service charge) I can play many shows from the recent lineup at will. And pause them, rewind them, fast forward, etc. And of course my digital cable comes with a much faster, cleaner program guide user interface. Now the downside is that the guide is somewhat lacking in features, as compared to TiVo's offering. I can't search it and it doesn't have any intelligence for making suggestions or auto-scheduling.

2. Which brings me to the second alternative. I also have an ATI AIW 9600 Pro TV tuner card in a PC. This PC is hooked to my TV. I run myHTPC for the guide/scheduling/recording features, an ATI's new Easylook UI for actual TV viewing. The two work together seemlessly. This gives me *all* the features of TiVo (except season passes, big whoop), plus a whole lot more. And I don't pay a monthly service charge.

Which brings me to my question: isn't TiVo just a niche product that really should only be used by folks with an antenna feed or analog cable feed who don't have the savvy to set up a PC next to their TV? Isn't its current success due largely to clever marketing and a small window of market opportunity that they've now artificially prolonged? That is, I think there was an argument for TiVo back when it was introduced, but isn't that argument substantially weaker today?

Re:TiVo viability?

[Violet Null]

NOTE: This is not intended to be a troll or a TiVo slam! I'm sincerely interested in /. opinion.

Then why didn't you read the dozens of other posts in any given TiVo article where someone asks the same questions/makes the same point?

But, whatever:

#1: Cable PVR. Sure. If you have cable, and your cable company offers this (Comcast in Chicago doesn't, for instance). And, if it's actually streaming on demand, then it's likely you can't see any given show that may have just been broadcast -- it's probably limited to the popular ones. No saving stuff for later, no odd shows.

Finally, on the note of cable, it's gotten a wee bit expensive. I pay less now for DirecTV than I did for Comcast, and that's including the TiVo subscription rate and more pay channels.

#2: Computer. Sure. Let's say the computer cost $500. (You could, of course, use a less powerful computer, but then you need a video card that does hardware encoding, and those are more expensive. So.) TiVo costs $250. You could say, "But the computer can have a bigger HD", but the TiVo could too -- if you're the kind of person who wouldn't blink at setting up a computer as a PVR, then installing a hard drive shouldn't be a problem either.

And, of course, there's the computer setup time. Now, personally, I think playing around with MythTV and the like is fun. But I don't confuse fun with popular or cost effective. I don't mind spending a day configuring MythTV to do what I want, but I think I'm in a small subset of the population on that one.

Re:TiVo viability?

[WebGangsta]

The "TV On Demand" feature of my cable company has it's good points and it's bad points.

Good: it's usually free, and has a fairly decent selection of programs that I am interested in watching. Last season's Curb Your Enthusiasm and Sopranos are examples. Not a huge selection, but enough for me.

Bad: extremely awkward controls, massive pixelation; often ends up that if you even nudge the remote you'll end up back at some random menu that you'll have to go and restart the program from the beginning and fast-forward to where you left off; pause, fast-forward, and rewind don't work very smoothly.

Nutshell: if you're willing to *watch* instead of *control*, then you'll be mostly happy.

Re:TiVo viability?

[MadAnthony02]

Which brings me to my question: isn't TiVo just a niche product that really should only be used by folks with an antenna feed or analog cable feed who don't have the savvy to set up a PC next to their TV?

I would agree that the "less tech savy" part is probably what DVR's appeal to, as well as digital customers who want more features than on-demand. But that is a huge market. Most people don't want to take the time to build a PC, configure it, ect - they would rather just plug in the device and go. They don't want tho have to fool around with TV capture card drivers and worry about their machine crashing and not recording the show.

I have a RePlay, and I like it. I consider myself pretty tech-savy, but I like the fact that I can just plug it in and it works. It also has a bunch of features not on On-Demand (commercial skip, network sharing, and I would imagine better scheduling, although I've never used on-demand.

Re:TiVo viability?

[radish]

There are cable services with true PVRs built into the set top box - I have one from TW. Having used a Tivo in the past, it's an obvious copy (and a second rate one at best). The interface is not as easy to use, the recording is somewhat unreliable, and the playback stutters and pauses much more often than my tivo ever did. The upside is it only costs $9 a month with no up-front purchase cost, the recording is of the original digital cable stream so there's no loss of quality due to recompression, and it can record 2 shows at once (2 tuners). I'm happy with it for now, until the HD PVR's come along, then I'll reconsider.

Re:TiVo viability?

[ageoffri]

Are you kidding me, no season passes? Season Passes is one of the best if not the best feature Tivo offers. The ability to record a series is vital to a Tivo. With this feature I can record Andromeda, Angel, Modern Marvels without having to daily setup to record if they are on. I would consider any PVR seriously flawed without this feature!

Re:TiVo viability?

[skidoo2]

> #1: Cable PVR. Sure. If you have cable, and your...blah...blah

You obviously didn't read my message.

Re:TiVo viability?

[skidoo2]

> ...they would rather just plug in the device and go.

Sure. But computers are pretty much there now. Even if you don't want to buy a Windows Media Center PC (which literally just plugs in and works), you could still get some plug-and-play box and just add an ATI AIW video card. The software basically installs itself. All you have to do is insert the CD and enter location info.

I'm just saying, PC-based PVRs are much more accessible these days. Almost as easy to setup as a TiVo, and come with obvious major feature advantages.

Re:TiVo viability?

[skidoo2]

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. myHTP and the ATI software (only two of the many solutions out there today) both implement the Season Pass feature. They just don't call it that. Well, myHTPC has an interface that does call it that. Nevertheless, what I meant was "big whoop" in the sense that for a PC-based PVR, this is a no-brainer.

In fact, the program guide interfaces in both these systems provide much more comprehensive search and selection features compared with TiVo.

Re:TiVo viability?

[JoeD]

This gives me *all* the features of TiVo (except season passes, big whoop)

This is where the people that don't get Tivo often get confused. Season passes are THE big feature. You don't tell it to record something by time/date - you tell it to record something by name, and it will do it, even if the show time changes.

For example, Fox continually rearranges their Sunday night lineup. Sometimes shows are skipped. Sometimes they show multiple episodes of one show. But I don't care. I told my Tivo to record the Simpsons, and it does. If they stick a bonus episode in there, it gets that one too. If they move it back a half-hour, it finds it. If they skip it that weekend, it doesn't record anything. If they put a bonus episode on in the middle of the week, it finds it.

If you dismiss season passes with "big whoop", it tells me that you just don't get it.

Re:TiVo viability?

[skidoo2]

For example, Fox continually rearranges their Sunday night lineup. Sometimes shows are skipped. Sometimes they show multiple episodes of one show. But I don't care. I told my Tivo to record the Simpsons, and it does. If they stick a bonus episode in there, it gets that one too. If they move it back a half-hour, it finds it. If they skip it that weekend, it doesn't record anything. If they put a bonus episode on in the middle of the week, it finds it.

This is child's play for the PC-based software I've used. See my other post. I wasn't clear about the fact that I really meant "big whoop" in the sense that the season pass concept only scratches the surface of the capability of PC PVR software.

Re:TiVo viability?

[jandrese]

1. In the less-features-but-easier-to-use department, cable companies (such as mine) are offering a service they're calling "TV On Demand." With my digital cable remote (and no phone connection, and no extra service charge) I can play many shows from the recent lineup at will. And pause them, rewind them, fast forward, etc. And of course my digital cable comes with a much faster, cleaner program guide user interface. Now the downside is that the guide is somewhat lacking in features, as compared to TiVo's offering. I can't search it and it doesn't have any intelligence for making suggestions or auto-scheduling.

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen a digital cable guide interface that I'd consider "faster" and "cleaner" than anything. My old Comcast digital cable box had this horrendous dog slow interface and some decidedly bizarre HCI choices. Worse, you actually had to know what time and what channel a show was going to be on, there was no facility to search for shows. For me, the Tivo is a giant leap forward in the interface department.

Re:TiVo viability?

[skidoo2]

> My old Comcast digital cable box...

Well I'm on Comcast in Richmond, Virginia. The company was formerly Media One, then AT&T before Comcast bought them. Our UI for our digital cable has been excellent since it was first made available (maybe 2 and a half years ago?).

Re:TiVo viability?

[narf]

Ah, you probably don't have the horrible 'TV Guide' interface. I have Comcast Digital (was AT&T) in San Jose with the TV Guide interface, and it's exactly as jandrese described it.

Re:TiVo viability?

[Mr. Sharumpe]

This gives me *all* the features of TiVo (except season passes, big whoop), plus a whole lot more. And I don't pay a monthly service charge.

IMO, the season pass is the single biggest reason to HAVE a TiVo. I don't know what time most of my shows are on, and I don't really care. I know that CSI is on Thursday, so after Thursday I can watch it. Sure, I could watch it live, but I don't HAVE to. And I don't have to know, or care, what time the show is on. Perfect. Plus, I only pay an extra $5 a month for the service -- well worth it, IMO.

How about this -- your favorite shows get bumped for time around the Oscars, the SuperBowl, etc. If you've got your VCR or PVR set for 10:00, you're out of luck. With TiVo, it doesn't matter.

Which brings me to my question: isn't TiVo just a niche product that really should only be used by folks with an antenna feed or analog cable feed who don't have the savvy to set up a PC next to their TV? Isn't its current success due largely to clever marketing and a small window of market opportunity that they've now artificially prolonged? That is, I think there was an argument for TiVo back when it was introduced, but isn't that argument substantially weaker today?

I don't think it's just for people who don't know how to set up their computer to do the same thing. It's for people who don't *want* to have to mess with it.

TiVo is slow as a dog sometimes, no doubt. But is truly a consumer-level device, something that doesn't require me to do ANYthing to keep it running. If I want to mess with a computer, I'll do so. But if my computer causes me to miss CSI, I don't want anything to do with it. That's really the key. Your computer software will get in your way from time to time -- that is the nature of software on a personal computer. Whether it's bugs, upgrades, configuration... whatever. The goal of a consumer-level device/service is to be as invisible as possible.

I think that, if anything, the TiVo is more relevant today than it was a few years ago. Everyone wants a PVR these days. Dish Network, Comcast and DirecTV all offer their customers a PVR option. A few years ago, they were just for the nerds and early-adopters. Now they're for my mom and your grandpa.

Mr. Sharumpe

Re:TiVo viability?

[akb]

I too have doubts about Tivo's mid or long term viability. But as far as competing w/ Video on Demand (VOD), Tivo has sent the cable companies scrambling. VOD has been cable's plan forever, they have sunk billions into the effort to upgrade to be able make it happen. Then before they can really roll it out, Tivo (and ilk) come along and roll out these cheapo boxes that does most of what VOD can do. This is competition that cable did not expect so they will have to seriously rethink their VOD price structure.

Cable's response is to offer a DVR of their own. They can afford to lose much, much more on these boxes in order to kill Tivo and friends, I expect they will succeed.

Re:TiVo viability?

[prockcore]

This gives me *all* the features of TiVo (except season passes, big whoop), plus a whole lot more.

So it gives you all the features.. except the single most useful feature of TiVo.

Any DVR that doesn't have season passes, isn't worth jackshit.

Re:TiVo viability?

[Anonymous Coward]

isn't TiVo just a niche product for folks who don't have the savvy to set up a PC next to their TV?

Change "savvy" to "savvy or inclination" and you've got a statement that describes 98% of the viewing audience. It's not a niche market.

Re:TiVo viability?

[Doctor Faustus]

The upside is it only costs $9 a month with no up-front purchase cost, the recording is of the original digital cable stream so there's no loss of quality due to recompression, and it can record 2 shows at once (2 tuners).

My DirevTivo is an extra $5 per month, and has all the other advantages, except that I had to buy the unit.

Re:TiVo viability?

[wkearney99]

TV on demand and endless price gouging. The latter means no matter what features they offer the cable companies will still be thieving bandits.

Being able to do season passes and wishlists (searching on title, actor, director, etc) is not as trivial as you think. It's a VERY handy way to avoid a lot of tedious digging around in program guides.

Not to mention, a DirecTivo at $99 and $5/month is ALWAYS going to be a lot less expensive and a LOT less hassle than putting up with a PC.

If anything the reasons to use a purpose-built appliance are stronger than ever.

Re:TiVo viability?

[riffer]

isn't TiVo just a niche product that really should only be used by folks with an antenna feed or analog cable feed who don't have the savvy to set up a PC next to their TV?

If you call a market of tens of millions of people a "niche", then yes.

Isn't its current success due largely to clever marketing and a small window of market opportunity that they've now artificially prolonged?

False. Tivo in fact has relied heavily on word-of-mouth to gain customers. Early adopters who became "Tivofanatics" would rave about Tivo to friends/family, who would look into it themselves. I myself have converted a co-worker and am slowly convincing my mother-in-law to get one (considering how little TV she watches, that's impressive).
(I'm confused as to how Tivo can be said to have artificially prolonged the market. They haven't done anything to stop other companies from making PVRs. Maybe I misunderstand that part of your statement).

Tivo pretty much created the PVR market. The "TV On Demand" service that various cable companies are offering are the copy-cats. Fact is, the PVR itself isn't a particularly amazing technological device. What Tivo did was to make sure the PVR has a very smooth, polished interface, that everything was as easy to use as possible, and that there were features beyond just rewind/fastforward/pause live TV.

Also, the "On Demand" services are only available in some cable markets, generally only for those with digital cable. You have to pay extra for the service. And it still doesn't include ratings, suggestions (based on collaborative ratings), Home Media Option, automagic recording of programs based on keywords/acters/titles... It's really just the RW/FF/Pause stuff.

That is, I think there was an argument for TiVo back when it was introduced, but isn't that argument substantially weaker today?

Not in my opinion. The PVR technology itself is NOT what Tivo sells, and never has been. Tivo's been about the software and the services behind it. Most PVR alternatives only give you the minimal range of features a Tivo-enabled PVR can offer. MythTV is pretty promising, but ultimately it's backed by nothing substantial. It'll be great for hobbyists and wonderful if Tivo ever does one day falter... But at this time Tivo's market share is growing and their popularity is definitely increasing.

Here's a few more points about Tivo:

• A stand-alone Tivo unit works with any sort of TV input you want. RF antenna, analog cable (with our without cable box), digital cable, satellite, etc. You can even record shows from videotape/DVD/camcorders onto Tivo if you are so inclined (albeit in a kludgey fashion)
• Because of the above, Tivo keeps being useful even if you're TV service changes! I can drop cable completely, switch to satellite or move to another part of the country and my Tivo Series 2 will continue to provide me the same level of features and services.
• For those with DirecTV you can buy a Tivo-enabled DirecTV unit, and get all the benefit of Tivo along with perfect recording quality of DirecTV programming. In fact, DirecTivo is a big reason for Tivo's success, IMO.

Yes, I own a Tivo Series 2. No, I do not own stock in Tivo nor do I work for the company.

Re:TiVo viability?

[radish]

Which is fine if you can get DirecTV, which I can't. Thus it's not an option for me.

Re:TiVo viability?

[Doctor Faustus]

Why not? It's satellite; there shouldn't be any deographic limitations.

Re:TiVo viability?

[radish]

Because I live in an apartment building to which I am not allowed to attach a dish. So unless I happen to have a window facing the right way and am happy with a dish indoors, I'm out of luck. As are many people.

Ad-supported TV should die.

[ghjm]

TV should be directly viewer-supported. There are some key problems with the ad-supported model from the point of view of a TV viewer.

Basically, any given viewer wants some particular shows to continue and get funded, and doesn't care one way or the other about the rest. Under the ad-supported model, all the viewer can do is watch the show. This (presumably, and indirectly) contributes to high ratings, which attract ad dollars, which means the show gets to stay on the air.

If viewers contributed dollars directly, then someone who really likes a show could contribute a larger sum. In a case like, oh, hmm, FIREFLY, any given fanatical viewer could easily take on the financial burden 10 or even 100 "typical" viewers.

If we're going to make a radical change to television, let's do something that allows viewers, not advertisers, to pick the shows that succeed.

-Graham

It's a step up for me

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been watching all my movies on VCDs transferred from camcorders recorded from the back of the theater.

Re:It's a step up for me

[3lb4rt0]

You'll be the guy behind my sofa filming my moving collection then?

Re:Why Pay for oil changes?

[Violet Null]

I suspect your theory is correct. Why, just today, I was thinking to myself, "I bet all of those oil-change places are out of business."

I mean, really. An oil change. Anyone can do one, for 1/4 to 1/2 the price that a Jiffy Lube or a gas station will charge you. How can those places stay in business with a model like that? It's unheard of.

Confident in my intellectual superiority, I drove to work, only to pass plenty of oil change places still doing a fine business. I was saddened and dismayed to find out that such thinking is, in fact, totally wrong. Shocking as it is, it seems people are willing to pay for convenience.

All that sounds great...

[ghjm]

...but can it interface directly to DirecTV, the way a DirecTiVo does?

-Graham

Re:All that sounds great...

[jgordon7]

I wish, that would require some kind of DirecTV reciever on a PCI card or other like device so that you can get the raw un-decoded data. I have never seen one.

Re:All that sounds great...

[ghjm]

What about this: http://www.zoran.com/products/literature/dtv/TLG_T L880_v1.1_03_08_10.pdf

Re:All that sounds great...

[ghjm]

Oops, corrected link: Zoran TL800

Re:All that sounds great...

[jgordon7]

That is a digital TV decoder, it does not recieve DirectTV directly. It is for handling Digital TV signals which is different from recieving a Satalite signal from DirecTV or Dish.

Re:Why Pay for oil changes?

[acceleriter]

Except that rolling one's own PVR doesn't involve handling oil, getting dirty, or laying on the ground. That, and it doesn't have to be done every three months or three thousand shows.

Re:Linux and Tivo at the CES (explanation)

[telstar]

Maybe it's because if they admit to using Linux, SCO will release their lawyers on them.

Re:NBC Recording warning (time sensitive)

[WebGangsta]

And to make matters worst, NBC is going crazy with their times on Monday. Fear Factor is running 70 minutes (8p-9:10p), Las Vegas is running an hour (9:10p-10:10p), and whatever they have at 10:10p (the Apprentice? Joe Average?) is running 50 minutes to 11p. Losing one minute of a recorded program is reasonable, but a 10-minute shift? Crazy.

Re: TiVo for Radio

[WebGangsta]

Check out Radio YourWay. It records up to 4 hours of radio programming (either live or scheduled) for playback later.

Also, some of the iRiver MP3 players with built-in tuners will record broadcasts.

You're in "luck."

[raygundan]

DirecTV Tivos don't have to worry about any of this stuff. Currently, they're a major version behind in software, don't support HMO, and have their USB ports (which is where you'd plug a network adapter) disabled.

DirecTV is PARANOID that opening up their tivos like all the rest of them is going to result in rampant digital copying, and networks packing up and leaving.

So you're not missing out on anything-- DirecTV won't have it anyway. Just the standalone tivos.

so what

[infinite9]

My biggest complaint about the tivo is that I can't get shows out of it. After a year, even the 80gig model filled up and I started having to compromise about what to delete. Even if there is DRM, i don't really care. I would prefer not to have it, but i think in this case, I could live with it. I think the argument is similar to the itunes drm. It all depends on how oppressive it is and how much things cost. In the end, I'll probably build a mythtv box. But for now, these features would be well worth it. I suspect tivo would get a lot of heat for this if there were no drm.

Re:so what

[dbrower]

My biggest complaint about the tivo is that I can't get shows out of it.

Yes you can. There's a 'play to vcr' option that works just fine. This works even with the DirecTivo.

Tivo isn't going to be fighting the DRM war for us. They are hostages to the industry just like we are.

-dB

Re:so what

[cayenne8]

Well, I'm building a MythTV box now too...if I get it all working, will probably give my Tivo to my Mom.

You can do a couple of things with the Tivo tho.

1. Hack into it, clone the HD onto another larger HD..and this will give you increased room.

2. You can be a bit more invasive..and do this on a cloned HD...there is a trick called something like the 2 kernel monte, where you can put your own code into the tivo..turn off the DRM on the progams it records...and access through a webserver you install on it. You can unload all the recordings you want then at full digital.

Sure, you void warranty, but, those don't last long anyway...and I'm at least going to clone the drive to a larger drive and put the original back for safety. With the HD running 24/7, I'd guess that failure is not that long off...and by just doing this, I could keep the lifetime sub. going on pretty much forever till something else breaks...but, I figure the HD is the first point of vulnerability...

Another TiVo service offering...

[rkischuk]

......suing your competition into oblivion using moronically awarded patents

Proprietary Version of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Did TiVo ever release the source to their "Proprietary Version of Linux"? Or was it even Ti Vo that ran on a linux distro?

Re:Proprietary Version of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

When did they not release the source?

www.tivo.com/linux

We can already copy files, as well as stream them.

[AugstWest]

Check out TiVo-mplayer, and turn your TiVo into a media server for your entire lan...

With 802.11G, you can watch the stuff anywhere now. Pretty sweet.

It's very simple. Time IS money.

[HarveyBirdman]

I'm about as tech savvy as you can get. I've built designed and built motherboards from scratch. My job involves hardware designs with a dozen multimillion gate FPGA designs where I design the board AND write the VHDL for the FPGAs. I've done digital designs over 10 GHz. On the software side, I've been programming since the Apple II. I'm there, OK?

Yet I still bought a DirecTivo. I also have one of the first ReplayTV units. Why make more work for myself? Why go through the bother? The box was $149. Monthly fee? Who cares? I make a lot of money, and can deal with $5 a month. If it buys me a noccasional software upgrade and semi-well managed guide information, then fine. And season passes ARE a big whoop. They are very convenient.

Also, the DirecTivo records the original digital stream from the satellite and has dual tuners and a very nice interface. I just can't see the point to reinventing the wheel. I could probably build my own mountain bike. I have the tools. I know how to weld. But why? I'd rather do something no one has done before.

At work, if I need an amplifier in a design, I buy a prepackaged component. My job performance would be seriously questioned if I spent $4000 in man hours designing an RF amplifer when one with identical specs can be bought off the shelf for $20.

My time is worth something to me. If I have to spend more than 1 hour a month dicking around with a PC based DVR, then I've "spent" more than $5 for that month. If it took me more than 24 hours of plugging things together and debugging, well, my time spent already covers the typical lifetime of one of these gadgets before the next one with new features and more integration comes along.

And you seem to be forgetting that 98% of the population is NOT as savvy as a typical /. user. There is an enormous market for these things, as large as the VCR market. I think the integrated products like DirecTivo and now Tivo DVD recorders are going to be what really starts to light a fire.

Re:It's very simple. Time IS money.

[Didion Sprague]

My god. This may be the first pragmatic post I've read on Slashdot in months.

Right on, brother.

I agree 100%. Everyone's always got the better idea -- "Hey, man, listen to this: I get the GribbleGrabble OS, add a DibbleDabbe board, and lookity-look with only some fibble fabble doobily doop API calls to the fibble fabble, I can kabble wobble the hoppity hobble."

Why bother -- when all you have to do it walk into Best Buy, walk out with a TIVO, and plug it in?

Some guy in this thread talks about spending 8 hours configuring Linux, warning that HabbleFabbleTV isn't for newbies, cuz, man, if you're a newbie, you'd be better off with a boring ol' TIVO. Got that?

Yeah, I got it. More power to ya: but come on. Time is money -- and time is time, period -- and if all you do is fiddle with yabble dibble, then fine -- rock on.

But I got a kids, the air is nice outside, the snow is pretty, and I got better things to do than wabble wibble with the uber-kibble kobble.

Re:It's very simple. Time IS money.

[HarveyBirdman]

My god. This may be the first pragmatic post I've read on Slashdot in months.

I've been called pragmatic to a fault. My pragmatism once broke up a relationship. No big loss in the end. She was too, well, impractical.

I have no problem with a hobbyist messing about with PC based PVRs. It's their hobby. They like it. Fine.

But I get tired of the attitude that if you're not interested in rolling your own solution, oh, well, you're some un-tech-savvy Aunt Matilda. Please...

It's true of any special interest group though. Many members (in this case computer geeks) forget that there is this vast sea of humanity that has no interest in messing about with the innards of PCs. That sea includes brain surgeons, particle physicists, authors, artists and many other bright and intelligent people.

I used to like messing around with the innards of PC, but I got bored with it. At a fundamental level, it really hasn't changed all that much since the first IBM PC. Motherboard. Plug stuff in. Install OS during full moon after goat sacrifice... no, wait. I think you sacrifice the goat first, yes?

Also, I'm deep in an engineering career now, so I really don't want to deal with electronics when I get home. I'm actually moving into wordworking and clock making as hobbies now. With computers, I'm trying to invent new types of computer art.

Re:It's very simple. Time IS money.

[aardwolf204]

I dont have kids, I'm 20, so fibble fabbling with the HabbleFabbleTV and wabble wibbling with the uber-kibble kobble is whats going to get me to where you, Mr. I've got so much damn money, what does it matter if I just walk into bestbuy and walk out with the latest consumer electronic blah blah blah.

So you design multi-gate-transistorfied mother-bored fibble fabble, nifty old dude. you keep taking the comfortable in my 40's route and I'll keep fabbling with my fobbles and maybe when all this fibbling pays off and I'm as rich as you in my 40's I'll make the same post to /. as the new generation uber-kibble kibblers discus how much uber it is to build their own penguinfied personal space craft instead of just taking Delta to Mars.

Re:It's very simple. Time IS money.

[skidoo2]

> ...I got better things to do than wabble wibble with
> the uber-kibble kobble.

I hear that can make you blind anyway. And cause hair to grow on your palms.

Re:It's very simple. Time IS money.

[skidoo2]

> I could probably build my own mountain bike. I have the tools.

Mr. Techno Testicles: My point is that nowadays you don't HAVE to "build your own mountain bike." Better mountain bikes are coming out of the stores that threaten to render the TiVo brand obsolete, or at least less ubiquitous.

Jeesh. Your tangential non sequitur belies the position of your head. As in it's likely stuck up into the ass-end of one of your creations or something.

Read my post again, THEN revist your "arguments" please.

> And you seem to be forgetting that 98% of the population is NOT
> as savvy as a typical /. user.

No genius, I'm not forgetting this. That was a key foundation point of my post. Doy.

Re:It's very simple. Time IS money.

[babyrat]

nd you seem to be forgetting that 98% of the population is NOT as savvy as a typical /. user

This reminds of the line in Picasso at the Lapin Agile when Picasso and Einstein look up at the night sky and Picasso says 'Wow - there must be millions of stars' and Einstein looks back and says 'You're way low!'

I'd say 99.99 percent of the population is not as savvy as the typical /. user.

Re:It's very simple. Time IS money.

[Rivak]

god i wish i had mod points right now.. for this whole hilariously-true thread

Re:It's very simple. Time IS money.

[Doctor Faustus]

Why make more work for myself? Why go through the bother?

I still build PCs for myself because doing it once a year or so keeps me reasonably up to date on what's out there (I'm a programmer, so keeping up with hardware isn't exactly my job, but I'm a lot more confortable having a clue.). Also, I never see quite what I want from major manufacturers.

Those same factors would probably lead me to build my own PVR, as well, except that saving the digital signal directly to disk, without the analog-to-digital-back-to-analog process is a really big quality advantage, and you can only get that with the prebuilt unit.

Re:It's very simple. Time IS money.

[wkearney99]

And 99.5% of slashdot readers are not as savvy as actual experts.

Re:It's very simple. Time IS money.

[mugnyte]

I'm going to take the Stallman position here. People SHOULD build, perfect and extend these things because - eventually - they will contribute to keeping information free.

I agree with you about consumer viability for these PVR applications. But your position can be used to dissuade home-built versions of a lot of things. Getting them off the ground is part of the fun, insanity and adventure of geekdom. There ARE success stories in that realm.

Now, I don't own a TV, so I come already doubting the value of such information, but that's another story. After all your "saving of money" you're going to watch what drivel? ;)

Tivo starting to catch up with ReplayTV

[skintigh2]

Yahoo story: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/ 20040109/tc_nm/tech_tivo_dc_1

"TiVo also unveiled TiVo-to-Go, which lets users who also subscribe to an additional TiVo home networking service to transfer shows they have recorded on the set-top box to a home computer. The system is kept secure by a unique key-sized memory device that must be plugged into the computer when the recorded content is watched or copied."

ReplayTV's have been able to do that for years, for free, without buying extra software, without extra monthly fees, and without Big Brother watching over what you watch and making you use "key-sized devices" to watch you shows.

What a joke.

In addition to that, my ReplayTV 5040 auto-skips commercials, lets me share programs online, lets me skip 30-seconds ahead at a time, lets me schedule OVER THE INTERNET what programs I want to watch, all for FREE without buying extra hardware and software. AND the monthly and lifetime fees are LESS than Tivo's.

But, I'm sure the people who have only ever tried a Tivo will tell me their over-priced under-performing box RULEZX0RS.

Re:Tivo starting to catch up with ReplayTV

[Quikah]

Monthly and lifetime fees are $12.95 and $299 for both. Automatic commercial skip is no longer offered on currently available Replays. the rest is true. But the TiVo is still better. :)

Re:Tivo starting to catch up with ReplayTV

[skintigh2]

The 5040 is currently available in real stores, has commercial skip, is $10 a month or $250 lifetime (NOT 3 years), and it is better so nyaaaaaaah pbbt.

MythTV is missing an all important feature...

[steppin_razor_LA]

Say you are a DirecTV owner (like myself), a home theatre PC has significant issues when compared do a hacked DirecTivo.

Issue #1: Control

Can MythTV control the receiver (i.e. via a serial port or an IR blaster)?

Issue #2: Video Quality (this is the big one)

You still need to connect up your PC w/ a video capture device to the output of your DirecTV receiver. This means that there is an additional digital->analog and analog->digital transaction occuring.

Of you have hacked your DirecTivo, you can digital extract the programming at broadcast MPEG2 quality.

I used to do video capture w/ an All in Wonder. There is a world of difference between the vid caps I did on my AIW and the digital extractions from the DirecTivo. Even if I did a vid capture at a higher resolution+bit rate than the original programming, the quality was still inferior.

Issue #3: Quality (Audio)

If the movie is broadcast in 5.1, will MythTV record it?

Re:MythTV is missing an all important feature...

[Glitch010101]

I've just gotten MythTV working - and although I've had my share of troubles with it on the mini-ITX playback machine I bought - it's currently working great on my main PC.

Issue #1: Control
Yes, MythTV can control your box using any script or app such as changechannel.bin, or others. I was able to quickly find such a script for my RCN Cable box, and hook it up via serial cable. MythTV triggers the channel change automatically after an EASY setup from the main menu to tell it to use changechannel.bin. This also could have worked with an IR blaster.

For those without TiVo experience, this is important because there are no digital decoder cards on the market for PC since the stream is encoded, unlike analog cable. Don't be fooled into buying an HD capture card - it will only capture the HD Broadcast signals which are being sent over the airwaves in very limited markets.

Issue #2: Quality
While I hear you that this is certainly better with a hacked DirecTivo setup, this is a non-issue for 95% of users, just as mp3 bitrate arguments (above 128kbps) don't apply to the majority of the music listening audience. As long as the quality is decent, they don't give a hoot whether it's good, great, or crystal.

Quality with MythTV is decent, although this depends largely on your capture card, but is completely watchable. Both my fiance and I watch all our TV on our MythTV system, and she's never complained once about the lack of quality.

The other reason this is less of an issue for most people is that regardless of digital or analog, traditional NTSC cable signals are relatively low resolution. You're never going to get beyond "good" quality into "great" and "awesome" like HDTV. People are much more tolerant of "Decent" quality when they're only used to slightly better.

Issue #3: Quality (Audio)
For TV watching, 5.1 Audio is another enthusiasts toy. The average user just doesn't need it.
That said, recording the 5.1 signal depends much on your video capture card, sound card, and current linux support. If you use the SBLive 5.1 you can pass the audio signal digitally out through your receiver. If it's 5.1 on the cable line, it will be 5.1 out that output. See http://cmisip.home.insightbb.com/mythtv.htm

Re:MythTV is missing an all important feature...

[steppin_razor_LA]

Issue #2: Quality (Video)

I'm not a videophile, but the difference between video captures and digital extraction was readily noticable. I suspect that the real issue was from signal degradation (I was using decent (i.e. monster) svideo cables).

The video seemed to have more mpeg2 artifacts and the colors weren't right.

Perhaps these are all solvable.

Issue #3: Quality (Audio)

I agree that most channels don't broadcast 5.1, but I do disagree about it being a "toy". Most of the content that I archive from my DirecTivo to my PC or DVD for future watching are movies. A substantial % of these are broadcast in 5.1. I for one, really enjoy the sounds of bullets, etc wizzing around my head :)

Am I to understand that if you do have 5.1 sound, that MythTV can encode it? I don't think you can encode 5.1 in MP3 -- I beleive that AC3 is used for that...

Re:MythTV is missing an all important feature...

[Tombstone-f]

A lot of video problems are more related to capture card. I don't have one, but people have claimed if you use a PVR 350 for your input and output the quality is around best on the Tivo. Of course, you will lose quality because you can't capture the digital signal like a directTIVO can.

As far as audio goes Mythtv can capture the AC3 stream if you have a SPDIF input.

Didn't replayTV try something like that?

[FerretFrottage]

Didn't replayTV try something like that and get the crap beat of of them by the NAB (national broadcasters association) or the like? They want you only to watch what they say you can watch. I know they have a problem with people being able to watch tv shows from markets they don't live in. As for non-public shows, the cable/sat/media companies only want you to watch what you pay for and being able to record something and then let someone else watch it who originally didn't subscribe to the material is not in their best interests. I guess if some DRM scheme became available to manage who can share what with whom then it may become a reality, but don't refresh the tivo homepage anytime soon :)

Re:Didn't replayTV try something like that?

[javaxman]

Yea, that's exactly the feature that Replay had their pants sued off for. Broadcasters also didnt' like the "30 second skip" feature, either, but it was really the file-sharing feature that got them in trouble. I'm getting good at timing the fast-forward on my Tivo, but a skip *exactly* the length of most commercials would be pretty nifty.

TiVo is a dying business

[jocknerd]

I've got an 80GB TiVo Series 2. I bought it last April. It does everything my wife wants. It records her shows. It does nothing I want. That is the ability to save my recorded shows to my computer. I can save them to my digital camcorder but thats a pain. TiVo-Togo is not the answer. I don't want to have to use some special software. Plus I want the ability to edit.

As soon as my cable company offers PVR which should cost about $10 a month, my TiVo is going on Ebay. Then I'll build a MythTV from one of my computers.

TiVo has no chance in the long run especially once the cable companies will offer the same ability at a low cost. TiVo is just way too expensive. $300 for the unit and $400 for a lifetime subscription fee.

Re:TiVo is a dying business

[crawling_chaos]

It all depends on whether or not TiVo can make a product clearly superior to the cable offerings. Not all purchase decisions are driven by price. By your logic Porsche and BMW are also dying businesses since Hyundais are much cheaper. TiVo will lose customers to the cable giants, and may even become a niche player like some computer makers I can think of, but it stands a pretty good chance of still being around and profitable.

Re:TiVo is a dying business

[Anonymous Coward]

You can save the shows to your hard drive with a replaytv by using the dvarchive program from sourceforge. you can even play them back on your tv.

Re:TiVo is a dying business

[wayner9]

You can do most of what you want by using TyTools - get stuff off of a TiVo and edit it. You can then convert to mpeg or DVD. I am not sure if it works for S2 TiVos, but it works fine for Series 1. It is unlikley you will ever be able to edit on the TiVo, but you will not be able to do that with the cable company box either. And the cable boxes have a very poor UI compared to TiVo.

Re:TiVo is a dying business

[christor]

I've got an 80GB TiVo Series 2. I bought it last April. It does everything my wife wants. . . . . As soon as my cable company offers PVR which should cost about $10 a month, my TiVo is going on Ebay. Then I'll build a MythTV from one of my computers.

I don't think I'd even want to be a fly on the wall when the topic of junking the TiVo and rigging a solution from old computers comes up over the dinner table.

Re:TiVo is a dying business

[riffer]

Are you fucking insane?! $400 for a lifetime subscription? No. How about $200? And $300 for a unit? Uh, how about $150? You just got to make the purchases at the right time.

Hell, go buy a used one on eBay, with lifetime service included.

You need to "upgrade" to Tivo 4.0

[Dan Berlin]

Tivo 4.0 (including support for wireless USB cards) actually works on Series 2 DirectTivo's.
See the dealdatabase forums for more details.
My HDVR2 now runs Tivo 4.0 with no problems, and I have a wireless USB adapter connected to Tivo that it uses for downloads.

Tivo Technology

[Pablo Deli]

When I bought my Tivo for direct tv, my wife said "why are you wasting your money on that crap, what's wrong with just watching tv?" Now, guess who uses it most of all? Tivo is the most incredible technology for those who watch tv. It records all of my favorite show so I don't have to interupt whatever I'm doing and I can watch TV when I choose. I can also fast forward through the commercials, which is what the networks REALLY hate. Gives me more time to work on my cartoon drawing: Comics

Another company Just Says No to customers

[Cajun Hell]

Once selected, the secure and encrypted TiVo recorded programs are moved to the PC, where the TiVo Content Security Key is used to unlock the files for playback or burning, preventing files from being shared online, outside of the user's home network.

The TiVo Content Security Key and the TiVo-enabled versions of Sonic Solution's MyDVD and CinePlayer applications will be sold as a bundle at www.tivo.com.

The encryption "feature" is not something that any Tivo user has asked for. Features that users don't want, are called "bugs." A rival product that does not include the feature, will be more attractive.

(And it doesn't have anything to do with piracy. It is perfectly normal for users to want to use all their usual standard apps to work with multimedia (to snip clips, burn to playback media, etc) instead of having to buy special tools.)

Writing your software to serve the interest of people other than the users, is a good way to guarantee that eventually, an open source/free software alternative will crush you. Tivo's product announcements bode well for the Freevo and MythTV teams.

What I'd Like to See

[rpk]

One of our VCRs broke late last year, and we haven't replaced it yet, because we don't use it that often, and there's another TV with a DVD+VCR unit attached. Still, it would be nice to replace that VCR.

So, why not a combo VCR and TiVO ? After all, the TiVO is basically a VCR replacment, but people still have tapes, and it saves an input jack to the TV. And given how cheap VHS parts are now, it wouldn't cost much more than a TiVO. Add a DVD recorder and then you've got a way to convert tapes as well.

Re:Why Pay for oil changes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Try making one with 4 tuners, a 250 GB hard drive and that accepts satellite signals directly. Get back to me when you clear licensing.

TV-On-Demand?

[antdude]

Does this program let you set scheduled recordings and watch it as "TV-On-Demand" in realtime? ATI's MMC doesn't let me do this for scheduled recordings.

Re:We can already copy files, as well as stream th

[Rude Turnip]

I didn't see much detail on the site, but can this let me stream recorded programs on my TiVo through my LAN to my laptop, *without any modification to my TiVo?*

DirectTV

[shaka999]

My biggest issue with with my Tivo unit is that its licensed to DirectTV. DirectTV will not enable many of the cool new features that are actually supported by the hardware. Sure wish I could pick up a dual decoder Tivo that wasn't tied to DirectTV.

FINALLY!!!

[boy_afraid]

Finally! I've been dying and asking for Tivo for the radio! Now, can this be detachable so you can use it at home or in the office?

Tried It. Hated It.

[deliciousmonster]

I owned the Pioneer DVR-810H. It retailed for $900. The DVD player provided decent enough quality, but the player itself was noisy. Louder than my 3 year old, $99 Pioneer DVD player.

The TIVO picture quality, even at the best resolution (which reduces recording time to 8 hours or so), looke like a VCR that hadn't been cleaned for five years.

I do not have DirectTV, only analog cable, but the picture on live TV is ten times better.

I returned it in a week.

IANACTE (I am not a Chinese Telecommunications Engineer), but it seems to me that since the Commercial Skip is gone, one could save themselves a lot of money buying a DVD player and a VCR... and spend the money going on a ski trip or to Mexico or something...

How much TV does one human being need, anyway?

Re: PC PVRs **DO HAVE** season passes

[skidoo2]

SORRY. Sheesh. I wasn't clear in my original post, I meant "big whoop" in the sense that the season pass feature is no-brainer given for a PC-basd PVR solution. And they don't call it out with a special name like "season pass."

In fact, the searching and selection features in both myHTPC and the ATI software (just two of the many solutions available nowadays) are much more comprehensive than those on TiVo.

IS there anything on TV worth recording?

[Darth23]

I cancelled my digital cable about a year ago because I realized that most of the 'programming' is just infomercials and RERUNS. The new season comes along and many cable station proudly announce that they'll be showing Friends, or 24 or ER or 7 days a week, is if showing [b]last year's Broadcast tv shows[/b] was a major accomplishment. Even on movie channels they replay the movies so much that they become re-runs almost immediately. The turner channels TBS and TNT really amped up this process when they began showing the same 'new' (to basic cable) movies over and over again, and ANNOUNCING the fact as it it was something to be proud of! I'm sorry but when a channel says that they'll be showing The Matrix Friday night and Saturday night and Sunday night that says to me that they don't have much programming on their channel - or they're skimping on product. Not the best wat to treat PAYING customers. Between the reruns, the endless repeats, the incredibly annoying little video logos in the corner of the screens that channels do now, the butchering of the ending credits of movies - playing promos for OTHER shows (really loud) before a show has actually ended, the infomercials and the endles number of clones of the same shows, the number of actual decent quality choices is decreasing faster and faster, even as the number of channels increases. So what is there to 'Tivo' anyway?

Why can't Consumr Electronics industry win on DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is something I have never understood. I thought the CE industry is HUGE compared to the content industry. If so, why are they losing all of the DRM battles? Why did they let the Digital Millenium Copyright Act get passed? Why are they letting the FCC dictate all of these DRM conditions?

I just don't understand it. Surely the CE industry must realize how many sales they are losing because of DRM. Just in terms of my purchases alone, leaving aside PCs, I've bought just maybe one or two new CE devices in the past 10 to 20 years, while refusing to buy probably two dozen CE devices because of DRM.

They're the bigger industry. Why are they siding with the losing side of the DRM argument? TIVO wouldn't be "fighting this battle alone." If they worked with their CE colleagues in the fight, they'd be unbeatable. Is that the problem, that CE manufacturers won't work together?

Re:Perhaps a new method for advertisment supported

[NanoGator]

"If we assume that adverts are required to support our favourite programs (a necessary evil), is there a way to have our recording devices to select our prefered category of advertising?, eg: we prefer to see adds for tech gadgets over medical products over personal injury lawyers."

Just remember, we're not talking about a very innovative industry here. ;)

I personally shed no tears over commercials being skipped. Why? Because in order to skip commercials, I have to wait until the program is over. So I spend an hour to save 15 minutes? Yeah, I suppsoe I could do that, but there's still value to a good time slot. My Replay has been getting ER for months now, but I haven't missed an episode yet. They got their ad revenue. Now their time-slots are more valuable than ever. Competition is good. ;) (Notice more TV shows are making it to DVD?)

I have an alternative suggestion for ad-related TiVo service. Instead of making me watch ads, how about having me unlock each Tv show by having 3 or 4 multiple choice questions?

"What is an iPod?"

a.) A genetically engineered plant.
b.) A new form of work cubicle.
c.) A music player by Apple.
d.) A robot with 'i' shaped feet.

If you answer C, the show is permanently unlocked and there are no more ads in it. The other answers would show you a 30 second commercial and ask the question again.

In short, you pay for your program by remembering what the sponsor is offering. It's quicker, and it makes advertising more effective.

Anyway, like I said, this is not a very innovative industry. Wouldn't expect to see anything but moaning and groaning about ad-skip.

Re:Multiple signals/channel

[gr8_phk]

"Thus far nobody has really tried the multiple channels on one station gambit, although it is allowed."

I believe most the stations in the Detroit area are sending multiple subchannels. Since there are 8 available stations at my house, I suspect I'll have 20-30 things to view once I get my HD working. I have heard that PBS likes to use 1080i, so they probably don't have multiple yet. Anyway, there is all kinds of stuff out there.

Mac support?

[agentmouthwash]

What about Mac support?

Re:Mac support?

[javaxman]

How about checking the Apple website and searching for Tivo ?

Seriously, though... you're asking about TivoToGo? It sounds like some form of crippled Home Media Option to me... it might happen, but it's not going to be there right away. iTunes weak "DRM" aside, Tivo probably knows how anti-DRM the Apple folks are, anyway, and won't provide TivoToGo there until it's well-tested on the Windoze side...

Why not just network your Tivo, hack your way in, enable ftp, and grab the files off of it that way? When I have the time and *really* want to do it, that's what I'll do to my DirecTivo. It'll probably be in another year, after my warranty expires and I swap out the HD for a larger capacity one, then I'll use the fact that my Tivo is really a Linux computer in disguise.

Re:We can already copy files, as well as stream th

[wayner9]

You need to install vserver on your TiVo - but this is quite possible for both S1 and S2 TiVos

What about the cinema's model?

[nick_drake]

What about the cinema? Presumably, moviegoers have paid for admission and should experience the show without ads, but that's not exactly the case.

Previews of other movies were bad enough... now we have to sit through ads for levi's and coca-cola. ...and whiny stuntmen spouting anti-"piracy" propaganda.

And you can't just show up late for the show, unless you enjoy sitting in the worst seats.

TiVo clustering

[lairdb]

The new HD DirecTiVo is supposd to have two satellite tuners and 2 OTA tuners, so that addresses (to some extent) your issue.

A number of us have been suggesting for a while that this is the wrong approach -- instead, TiVos should be able to cluster, with the individual resources pooled (tuners, space, etc) against one mater ToDo list, one recording list, etc.

Re:TiVo clustering

[akb]

Mythtv does this.

not ALL the features..

[Anonymous Coward]

The two work together seemlessly. This gives me *all* the features of TiVo (except season passes, big whoop), plus a whole lot more. And I don't pay a monthly service charge.

I bet you can't record and playback shows/movies with Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtracks.
Standalone Tivo's don't either, but DirecTivo units do.

Re:Why Pay for oil changes?

[I-R-Baboon]

Apples and oranges

Now get a free oil change service that needs some polishing and your thinking on the right line.

Home Media Option Crippled!

[Arthur Dent]

According to Cory (Boing Boing), Tivo to Go uses a properitary DRM system to protect the shows transferred to your pc.

Not sure if the DVD Tivo allows you to burn is a 'normal' dvd you can play on any player or is similarly crippled.

Re:Home Media Option Crippled!

[Nex]

Not crippled. The DVD itself will play in normal DVD players. Nex

Cheap Plug: Building Your Own PVR Tivo DVR

[enrico_suave]

I just started a site dedicated to Building your own PVR / DVR

*shrug* Would love some reviews/comparisons of mythtv, knoppix myth, etc...

e.

ReplayTV does this already...

[douglips]

ReplayTV comes with an ethernet port. You plug it in to your LAN, download dvarchive and you're in business. No hardware hacking, no dongles, and while this is "special software" it's free (beer).

Other folks are integrating ReplayTV interoperability in things like xbox media center, etc.

Oh no! I got the skidoo2 upset!

[HarveyBirdman]

I suggest you go read your own post again. I was directly addressing your second alternative.

Doy, indeed.

Mr. Techno Testicles

And don't you forget, padiwan. ;-)

Digital, not HD

[fm6]

Well, if you've just spent $10K on a HD-capable plasma display, and you're desperate for programming that actually uses it, then I guess that's frustrating. But I, for one, am only mildly interested in watching high-resolution TV, and wouldn't spend that much money even if I could afford it. Of course the price will come down eventually, but given lackluster consumer response to HD products, that's years away. So as long as the economy remains soft, there are going to be more people like me than people like you.

On the other hand, HD is just one digital TV application. We've focused on HD because that's how its proponents have sold this big digital conversion. Which is sort of unfortunate, since a lot of consumers -- and all TV broadcasters -- have gone and spent a lot of money on HD hardware they'll never really get full use of. I hate to imagine what that'll do to the bottom line for small public and independent broadcasters. Assuming there are any left after the insane consolidation the FCC has allowed.

But for consumer without deep pockets, it's a really nice thing to see digital broadcasts services we can afford. Like stations that use their bandwidth to offer multiple Standard-Definition channels instead of one High-Definition channel. Or data services. Or interactive services. Or video on demand. Stuff like that will serve a lot more people than a few HD programs.

Which I mostly wouldn't watch even if I didn't have to spend a lot of money to do so. Since HD programming costs so much more to make, producers will be even more chickenshit about taking creative risks than they are now.

Re:Perhaps a new method for advertisment supported

[4of12]

If we assume that adverts are required to support our favourite programs

Never assume anything.

In the early days of cable television there were all kinds of commercial-free channels that made new subscribers feel like they were getting a good deal for their subscription money.

Then, gradually, advertisements started to creep into programming. Why? Because all those watching viewers represent a valuable resource to advertisers, one which can be exploited by being sold. As a business, it's foolish to resist an opportunity to make money.

It's not that such advertising revenue is required to support the programming. Indeed, a sound business model suggests that if you increase your revenue by selling ad time and keeping a tight lid on programming costs that you will be more profitable. The large number of recycled shows in syndication, many of which don't pay the original actors squat, testify to the reality of the low programming cost business model.

How to activate 30 second skip on TiVo

[Anonymous Coward]

TiVo already has 30 second skip.
The secret key sequence to turn it on is select-play-select-3-0-select.
Now the "jump to end" button is the "30 second skip" button, when you are playing a recording.

tivo - dvd allow video editing? (commercials)

[Splork]

do the tivo dvd-burner units or tivotogo pc software options allow you to edit the video before saving or burning the to disk?

if not, that makes the dvd burner functionality useless as you'll still have to skip commercials (and most dvd players are much worse at ffw & skip-ahead than a tivo)

Re:Why can't Consumr Electronics industry win on D

[MrSubtle]

It's called "politics". Consider who the powerful people inside the RIAA are and who the powerful people inside individual record companies are. 100% of them are people whose departmental or corporate incomes derive from current lines of business...selling CDs, selling tapes, making music videos, licensing lunchboxes, and so on. Who in those companies or in the RIAA generally makes their living by selling online music? Nobody that's who. There's no constituency for those would would benefit and almost everybody is threatened within their companies by the advent of digital music distribution. Even if there were loads of money to be made that way (and I think there is), it is seen by those guys as "competition" with whatever it is that they are doing today. Add that to the general corporate attitude toward change of ANY kind and you get the kind of lunacy we see at the RIAA.

It's just like the resistance that IBM had to the IBM PC way back in the old days. The Selectric typewriter divsion HATED the PC because it threatened their precious typewriter business. We are seeing the same thing here.

--Brian

Re:Service Model...blah blah blah

[MrSubtle]

I have not given up hope that some of those folks will catch on to the idea that PVRs are no more an enemy of cable TV than the VCR was the enemy of the movie studios back in the late 1970's when they were fighting them just like the RIAA and the MPAA are now.

HOWEVER...much of the technology I have seen out there (not so much including TiVo although they have their problems too) is horrible. I( bought a Dish TV PVR built into mysatellite box a year or so ago and it sucks big time. The sales lady said it was a "TiVo" but it's some thing they cobbled together. It looks like it was designed bu marketing dweebs looking for "check boxes" on some featrure comparison and not by anyone who ever designed a piece of software (or used a PVR) before. Worse, since it's built into my satellite box I can't just throw the thing away. Instread, I bought a TiVo and put it on top of the thing and aside from having to override the nasty Dish PVR, things are good. Between the lame implementations and the crippling of functionality because of paranoid fears of piracy and loss of control the content producers and distributors are really missing the boat.

--Brian

Re: TiVo for Radio

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, WebGangsta, you went and answered the question. All the other replies were smart-assed comments and pointers to things that didn't do what the guy asked. Get with the program, eh? :P

SciFi too

[bill_mcgonigle]

Stargate went over at least a minute. Carter and O'Neil were alone, looking at each other, just having survived dangerous missions, when as the music soared, -click- end of recording. I told my wife they were just about to kiss (just to tweak her).

So apparently:
Step 1: annoy your customers
Step 2: ???
Step 3: profit!!!

So, next week Stargate will record until 11:01. Boy, those guys sure taught me a lesson! Hoo, boy, clever.

Re:Perhaps a new method for advertisment supported

[Doctor Faustus]

I personally shed no tears over commercials being skipped. Why? Because in order to skip commercials, I have to wait until the program is over. So I spend an hour to save 15 minutes?

With a VCR, sure. The fact that you don't have to do that is one of the big advantages of DVRs. If it's something I want to see immediately, I start watching at 9:15 (since Angel is currently the only show in this category), fast forward through commercials, and finish at 10.

For everything else, I don't bother. I watch Daria reruns whenever Noggin ("The N" at night -- whatever) plays an episode I haven't seen, and I watch Good Eats regularly. I have no clue when either of those are on.

------------
I like your quizzed advertising idea, though.

Re:We can already copy files, as well as stream th

[AugstWest]

If you've got a turbonet or some other sort of lan adapter in your TiVo, then yes, it will. If you hit the forum that the page I listed links too, there's tons of help on the setup.

There are even windows binaries for mplayer so you can watch the stuff on your windows machines too, so pretty much anywhere on your lan you can watch whatever is on your tivo.

Re:We can already copy files, as well as stream th

[Rude Turnip]

I have a Standalone Series 2 that uses a USB ethernet adapter instead of the phone line. However, your post conflicts with the reply above it, which says I do need to install vserver...who is right?