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LEGO Mindstorms Will Survive
thufir writes "LEGO has released a press release, where they dismiss the rumour that MINDSTORMS is being taken out of production. For some reason the changes in product policy lead to the misunderstanding that they would totally drop the product. 'Hearsay has it that a product range like LEGO MINDSTORMS is no longer in focus. This is not true. On the contrary, MINDSTORMS, CLIKITS and BIONICLE are all good examples of products the company wants to stake on.'" See our previous stories, Lego to Stop Producing Mindstorms and Lego Goes Back to the Basics.
I have a buddy I went to college with. Nice guy, very well spoken and everything. He's still single, and we're in our late twenties. I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the several MindStorms "things" he has in various places in his house. I mean, they're cool, but jeezus, wait til you have one reeled in before you bust the Mindstorms out of the storage room.
I want more castle lego sets. I had one really badass set a few years ago and now I can't find it anywhere, even on ebay. I don't even know what it was called. :\
I must say this is a relief... My first child is being born in a few months and I was afraid I'd have to start stashing away Mindstorm kits... It would have been like 'New-Coke' all over again ;-)
superblog.org: all your favourite blogs on o
Oh man, this is GREAT NEWS!
Now, let's hope that Microsoft decide not to cancel MS Bob after all!
Ruby
Java
Python
Good times!
The Army reading list
And yes, they're for my nephews and nieces!
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
not only do geeks in my former physics department write grant proposals to get lego mindstorms and then race them, they are actually an EXCELLENT toy for teens to learn to program, robotics, ... what the standard lego building blocks do for kids in the age range 3 - 8, mindostorms do in the dange 8 - 15 (clearly these numbers are not bounded on top): foster creativity! so... why drop an educational tool which has proven to be excellent. i guess lego knows what is good and what is not. what i hated with lego (as a big fan since i can remeber), is that in recent year there have been more and more specialized blocks which are useless and completely kill the main goal of lego: use your imagination to make a plane out of bricks. giving the kid a wing was a bad idea, IMHO, because kids then would be bored. after all, you got the wing out of the box, so why spend time trying to figure it out!
My Masters Program (no joke) has a project wherein we have to develop a minesweeper program using mindstorm. Other than the fact that BrickOS hasn't been updated since 2001, I was worried somewhat that I would be using a non-functional toy from here on out.
Hmm....any other projects that work with Mindstorm that I should be aware of?
Joe
It's pretty cool. Basically, it's a microprocessor with some snap on sensors and motors. You then have the option of programming it with the included visual programming language, or you can use one of a miriad of more advanced languages availible.
Back when it first came out, my Dad and I competed in a sumo cometition held at his work. It was really fun as a high scholl student to be able to play around with robotics and see how changes in code can affect the behavior of the system.
"That's not ironic, it's just mean!" - Bender
I was bought my Mindstorms kit a couple of years ago as a birthday gift. Recently I've been looking to upgrade it but all the add-on kits seem to have disappeared. The Ultimate Accessories Set, the Ultimate Builders Set, the Dark Side Set and the Mars Explorer Set have all vanished.
/. post regarding Mindstorms I assumed that was the reason. Now they've said they're not stopping Mindstorms why have these other sets disappeared and is there any other way you can you get the extra sensors these sets provides?
The Lego shop doesn't list any of them other than the base set. People like Amazon list them but can't say when they will have any stock. They do seem to have vanished from the face of the net. I have managed to get a Mars Explorer set half price which suggests it's end of line. The only place I can get anything is BrickLink and at a price.
When I saw the original
... do they really want to keep the bionicle products? Maybe they're doing a good thing by involving more girls into building toys by keeping the clikits. Boys need bricks and stuff that allows them to be creative. They don't need 200 bionicle sets that still doesn't allow them to build a house. Where are the good old days that lego was selling boxes that had about 5 designs, and enough pieces that allowed you to plenty more designs of your own. I'm amazed that the bionicle products are profitable. After I bought one, I promised never to buy one ever again, as it didn't give me a better collection of bricks that allowed me to do more fun projects. (Note that the mindstorms set was great as there are over 700 regular technic building pieces in that one)
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
Can anyone recommend a good place to buy these? I don't recall seeing them in the local KB the last time I was there. Hell, they barely carry regular legos. Maybe they were just out of stock from the holidays.
'Round and 'round the mulberry bush...
Yeah, I built a little robot that kinda chased my kids around...that was all fine and good til he decided to Rage Against the Machine. There are still lego pieces in the fishtank.
Great product, glad to see it is still going.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
To develop an updated RCX with more memory and a better processor all while developing a better battery sollution and working with Lego to market it after Lego realizes what they lost. *sigh*
There is or can be built a machine that can simulate any physical object. -Church-Turing principle
(I submitted this for a /. poll a few days BEFORE the first Lego stories broke about cancelling certain product lines.)
At what point did the introduction of increasingly sophisticated and purpose-built Lego pieces diminish the creative aspects of Lego construction?
1961: First lego wheels
1964: First Lego sets to include specific building instructions
1974: Large-scale "maxi-figs" (solid bodies, poseable arms, heads w/ faces)
1978: Town sets with mini-figures, trees, signage (gas, fire station, etc)
1984: Knights, armor, swords, horses, wagon wheels, banners
1988: Pirates, cannons, tree trunks and leaves, pirate flags, alligators
1995: Aquazone, scuba gear, squids, painted canopies w/ sea-monster faces
2000-present: Bionicles, Star Wars, Spider Man, and Harry Potter sets
Another point in time? Actually, I'm not as interested in the date itself as much as the sequence of brick releases.
I was somewhat bemused when I read the previous press release, they can't be killing Mindstorms, I thought to myself. After all, of their entire range, Mindstorms is practically unique - the only cheap 'control system' experimentation kit for all ages. And yes, it is cheap, in the context of the alternatives.
Don't know about the bionicals thing though, I've never really looked into it.
*--BigMan--- Time flies like an arrow.. but personally I prefer a nice glass of wine!
Just another troll trying to spread rumors.
Who said the robot didn't win :)
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
Between this and all of Mac rumors that get posted...maybe the tag should be changed to "The latest dirt for nerds?"
'Hearsay has it that a product range like LEGO MINDSTORMS is no longer in focus. This is not true. On the contrary, MINDSTORMS, CLIKITS and BIONICLE are all good examples of products the company wants to stake on.'
Wait......they aren't going to take down Mindstorms, but then they say right there that Mindstorms is a product they want to stake on. That's the most confusing thing I've heard all day.
Lego::RCX module.
-- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
...they really should update it. It's been over four years since Mindstorms first came out, and Lego still hasn't made any significant changes or upgrades to it. It really is an excellent learning/building tool, but there are many limitations to the RCX. A newer model, say, RCX 3.0, with increased processing capabilites, more ram/rom, and possibly even Wifi or Bluetooth instead of IR would be terrific.
eclecti.cc
Well at least for CST time zone it is.
There is or can be built a machine that can simulate any physical object. -Church-Turing principle
Had to be said....
On the contrary, MINDSTORMS, CLIKITS and BIONICLE are all good examples of products the company wants to stake on.
I'd be only too happy to drive a stake throught the guy who invented Bionicles. Not Lego at all.
Glad to hear about Mindstorms, though.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Am I the only one who saw those Bionicle commercials the first time they came on and was like "WTF?". I was watching a mvoie on Cartoon Network I think and they kept showing these commercials for this Bionicle thing but they never explained what it WAS. Finally some months later I saw a comemrcial for LEGO Bionicle sets and figured out that that is what it was.
But who came up with this stupid idea? They created some really convoluted mythology that makes absolutely no sense to sell what amounts to lego action figures with some kind of tribal futuristic snowboarding theme.
If they really want to focus on their better products, they should have KEPT the harry potter and star trek sets and gotten rid of this nonsensical CRAP.
Oh and the problem with stuff like star trek sets and harry potter sets is not that they have a theme, but that they have all these specialized parts that are completely useless for anything else. The whole point of lego is to be able to build the set and then take it apart and come up with new stuff to build. But when stuff like an imerial fighter or whatever comes with huge fixed wings as a single solid peice that will never look like anyhting but an imperial fighter wing, (or whatever those ships are called) you can't exactly use the parts to build a truck instead.
Lego doesn't need to get rid of their specialty sets. They need to CHANGE them so that the come with MORE parts, and LESS specialty parts. Make the kids make the big flat vertical wings out of a big octagonal peice with some smaller octagonal peices stuck on it. But leave the bumps. Don't make one solid wing.
And get rid of that stupid ass Bionicle.
A free Mind for Mindstorms and other robots is available in Forth, for when the Mindstorms robot has enough user-fillable RAM to load in the AI4U Mind.
pbForth has long been a Forth programming language available for the "brick" of the Lego Mindstorms.
An Aibo robot fan site features the JavaScript version of the free AI Mind.
AI4U: Mind-1.1 Programer's Manual is an alternative AI textbook that describes the Robot AI Mind in the 34 diagrams of 34 chapters corresponding to 34 mind-modules.
Awhile ago I was looking around for methods to solve the Rubik's Cube. I came upon this guy who created a cube solver entirely out of mindsorms. Complete with color recognotion camera. Pretty nifty if you ask me..
I couldn't find any way to contact anyone at Lego by email - just through customer service. It would be nice to send an email of encouragement directly to the management.
Humans are social creatures. A large portion of that social behaviour revolves around sex. Survival of life demands it: if you don't reproduce, then when you die, something that DID will take your place.
As such, we're programmed to be happy when surrounded by friends and to be happier when we have a mate... forgetting for a moment that we also seem to be programmed to want a new mate about every 1.5-3 years and manage (mostly) to ignore that in favour of monogamy.
So, those people who totally ignore finding a mate are, in fact, messed up - abberant - strange. Given the 6 billion people on Earth at the moment, I'm sure a few more non-breeders added to the sterile, gay, or whatever can only help us, but it still isn't 'normal'. Now, if we could only manage to ensure that all the anti-social and gays, etc were male, it would give the rest of us guys a much better chance of scoring that harem we've always wanted.
Shove it LEGO
It is unbelievable to me that this could be rated troll. The language used is rather offensive but the poster makes an excellent point.
The RCX Brick and a few other Lego bits are the heart of my 3D Scanner project.
I need to set up NQC or LegOs for the next phase, and I need a good way to control the camera.
Dang. Not enough hours in the day.
What were you expecting?
Who will be the first to create a Lego Midstorm version of Gloria Gaynor singing "I Will Survive"? Would be a true expression of the meaning of this cinderella story :-)
star trek sets! wow, where are they? i want them!
oh,... i guess you mean star wars,...
well, than i agree with you
-- SouNerd.com
This clarification on the Lego website is a direct result of Slashdot. I read the original posting that Mindstorm may be discontinued and sent the article to my wife who is a primary organizer for the First Lego League here in Canada. She in turn sent it up the chain of command until it reached First in the US and then Lego. Lego responded with this clarification. So thank you Slashdot for providing the start of this process.
Little girls play with legos more than boys do now. My daughter (9 yr) brought into school all of my old legos from my mothers house because she said they were running out of them to use in her classroom. Aparently it's all the girls in the class who play legos at recess while the boys sit there and play their video games.
While i didn't buy her any regular lego sets, she did get several sets of clikits. If they had some simple, fairly inexpensive lego kits that allowed for girls to make simple houses, malls, in all pastelly girl colors lego would take off again.
At this point, girls generally have much more imagination and ability to sit down and play and build things. The key is breaking away from the theme based movie/fantasy themes and focus on what girls like, dolls, play houses, etc.
I see everyone here complaining about the overabundance of specialized pieces. Have any of you gone down to wal-mart and LOOKED at the lego sets available. Yes, the dumb Harry Potter sets are there. Yes, the dumb NBA sets are there. Yes, the excellent Designer Series sets are there... WHAT'S THAT?! Excellent Designer Sets... I've never heard of them! Robots, Motor, Wind-up, Creatures... The Robots set comes with instructions for 49 different models and the pieces are excelent for making thousands more. Go look at what is available out there people.
Where did you read that he earns that?
Nature didn't anticipate birth control or uncontrolled overpopulation, thus our reproductive drives cause us to desire sex, not children... though some people do seem to get the itch for children. It's that excess meat between our ears causing all these problems.
Nature prefers 'population control' using disease, starvation, and predation to 'birth control'. I prefer it the other way around.
Oh, and grow a pair and don't post as an AC!
The only Legos I buy anymore are the Star Wars sets, and I even have a couple of the > $100 sets.
Unfortunately I don't see any mention of those specifically. Can anyone clarify this for me?
That's too bad; I really liked the stuff. I haven't been using it much lately because I upgraded to Windows XP. I even had problems running it on Windows ME... I was hoping to see an upgrade from the 98 version at some point. Doesn't look like that'll happen now.
I'd been noticing a lot of the Studios set in the toy store bargain bins... Oh well, I hear there are other drivers available for the camera, and lots of movie-making software in general, no doubt. Hell, I'll accept a lot if it means Lego will be profitable again.
I was kinda hoping that in a couple of years, my daughter might be old enough for Mindstorms....so glad it's staying in production.
Oh, and one last time....the pluralization is LEGO!!! The product is LEGO. You play with LEGO. The company is LEGO. Americans are the only people on the planet who call is "Legos" or "Legoes".
-psy
Is it just my imagination, or has there been a story about LEGO every day recently?! News for nerds? Stuff that matters?
Craig
I got a set of those when I was a kid... fun stuff.
Milhouse: My Busy Box! It's got everything! [turning steering wheel] Vroom!
Vroom, vroom! [dialing phone] I'm calling Daddy!
Jim Hope: Good for you, not being bound by the recommended age.
Just wait until you have to learn the Bionicle alphabet just to play Legos with your kid ...
Am I the only one who thinks it kind of strange that Lego chose for the name of their "girls" line, a word that looks and sounds similar to 'clitoris'?
I think I need more sleep...
- c -
With today's watches having USB 2.0, 256 Meg storage and running linux, why does the MindStorm still have only 4 inputs/outputs, no real wireless connection and no real CPU/memory?
:-( which really limits it's usefullness for let's say boats, trucks or other stuff.
And why is:
The RC together with a battery compartment? Would it be much better to have them separeted so you can stick the batteries at the bottom, the screen at the top (point of mass lower)
nd their radiocontrolled car has a receiver that is not very compact (and molde together with the batteries again
In addition, having some more different gears would be greta, because chaining too much gears in lego is not something which works good, so reducing the gears neccessarry wouldbe a cool thing.
And finally make some bricks with LED lights in them! And some more different sized cables! Or how about a brick-plate (2x10 and 2x2 or something) with metal strips in it, so that you can save the cables and just join the bricks?
All these changes are very cheap ( heh, its just some plastic) and compare this to the trillion new parts they made for starwars and harry potter etc. But the small changes would make Lego _much_ more usefull for robotics and RC models.
Dont get me wrong, I love this stuff. This is why I care for it...
Best wishes,
Tels
I'm sure it says something important about the slashdot moderation system that Mentifex gets regularly modded up here...
I'd been meaning to buy Mindstorms for a couple of years, but had never gotten around to it. So when the story was originally posted, I finally ordered a set. I'm hoping to get it today.
They stated that they need to refocus, and i would imagine that the role playing legos and expensive tie-in products like star wars will be the first to go. Lego is about building, not role playing. But Mindstorms is a great building product, and other companies (Dacta) support it. Mindstorms will likely never go away as a concept.
That aside, people don't listen to the slashdot community in its natural technological capacity, why the hell would they listen to some crazed middle-aged guy talk about toys?
"There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
Is this still avaliable?
Been using it for some time, but it has been at least a year since I've seriously worked with Mindstorms (no time!)
"There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
Funny, this is the first time I've heard of bionicle, and CN is pretty much all I watch. Just tune out during the commercials.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
You can use Bionicle sets to create quite the variety of things. My 6 year old has been playing with them ever since they came out and now has more than any other kid I know. They rarely look like regular Bionicles. He builds all kinds of things out of them, combines them with all his regular Lego and anything else he can get his hands on.
Between his Bionicle, Lego and other creations, his room generally looks like a cross between an abstract art museum and a battle zone. Every little detail has a purpose he can explain to you. Maybe you need to be as creative as a kid to really appreciate them?
Maybe it's just my son. I walked into his room one afternoon a couple of years ago and recognized what looked like a battle zone out of Total Annihilation made entirely out of Bristle Blocks, complete with rotating radar towers, turret guns, metal extractors, moho mines, etc. You could recognize all the units. And that was just with Bristle Blocks. With Lego he could do even more and with Bionicle, even more, not less.
Especially funny, considering HP is funding SCO's campaign.
Don't get Bionicle?
Don't sweat it. Just means you're old.
You mispelled "CNN"
What do you guys think about this set? It does have a few specialty pieces, but from the large picture it looks like that only means the tail and claws -- which seems acceptable.
I wonder if this is part of their newer focused lines or if this is one of the lines that'll get the axe. I obviously haven't kept up with Legos much.
mbbac
Hear, hear! Those creator, designer and inventor sets are excellent, and Lego should be commended for "getting back to their roots," so to speak.
Remember, LEGO is not an American product (although the company would probably tank if they couldn't sell here).
The BIONICLE line is built on one version of a Norwegian mythology about earth spirits (or daemons, in other versions).
Lego didn't come up with the idea, they just came up with new names they could protect in court.
It doesn't matter what you wrap your emotions around, Reality is a brick wall specifically designed to scramble eggs
We used to try and build indestructible Lego vehicles, which we would test by ramming our effors against each other in a demolition derby.
Mindstorms could add a whole new level to a form of Robot Wars. Anyone tried using it in this way?
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Tsk. Just get one robotic arm, and have it type out "xyzzy". Then look for the white pixel as another arm traverses the board. Done!
(As it happens (no joke), I'm starting formal Master's work next quarter. Watch the bastards stick me with something like Freecell.)
:-)
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
1. George Lucas and his friends make a couple of phenomenally successful films about some adventuring space farmer.
2. Lego licenses a deal for said movies and makes a product line out of it.
3. ???
4. Paramount profits!
Star Wars! Not Trek! And you call yourself a geek?
Unless, of course, you're talking about some sort of home-made Romulan Empire fighter...
I was hoping to buy another Mindstoms on a shelf-clearance special.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Many many thanks for posting that link... I'd been needing to track down old lego manuals for some old sets that had been pulled out of storage, and hadn't gotten around to it. This should make things go quicker.
Here are two videos of Bad coding + mindstorms:
Bad Coding
Bad Design
Hope that's not too offtopic, just thought you'd enjoy those :)
It is extremely cool. I got my niece and nephew one for Christmas, and had the totally righteous pleasure of helping them build a robot and watching them program it (well, watching my 10-year-old niece program it, my much younger nephew had ideas of his own as to the proper use of the technology.)
This is great news from Lego. *This* should be their future. There are so many different directions they can go with this the mind staggers at the possibilities.
What I want to see are smart bricks, i.e., bricks that are able to communicate with one another in some limited fashion. They've already got the ability to send power through the little Lego connector dealies, why not data? This would allow an assembled robot to communicate its design to the computer; it would also allow a program to discover whether the robot has been damaged.
And how about RFID tags for these bricks? The most fabulously awesome robot would be one that goes around the house looking for lost Lego pieces.
It needs to be cheaper too. By cutting the cost in half they'll end up selling way more than double the units. The way it's priced now, your average mom and dad are going to choose something like the XBox instead... they're not going to understand the tremendous potential these toys can unlock in a young mind.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
Uh, no. That is not accurate. The setting and characters were sufficiently derived from Maori mythology that the Maori complained. Unless you were referring to some hitherto unknown tropical island off the coast of Denmark, or Norway. Whichever.
Bionicle sets are the only LEGO product I see at stores with no toy department. In other words, they're sold at grocery stores, drug stores, convenience stores, and gas stations. These are places where a parent is more likely to pay $5 for 18 plastic pieces. At Wal-Mart or Toys-R-Us, the selection is huge, but so is the competition. At Texaco or Walgreens, if your kid wants LEGO, he's getting the overpriced Bionicle, and that's that.
Slashdot lost (cue Hovis music) and (end Hovis music) tags.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Thanks, I've heard that also. My source was a friend from Norway who showed me a book of Norwegian mythology that, except for the character names, read like the audio script for the Bionicle movie.
I suppose there was enough similarities for several cultures to make claim to it. Either way, the BIONICLE toy set was hardly invented by LEGO, and it really doesn't fit into their previous toy offerings.
It doesn't matter what you wrap your emotions around, Reality is a brick wall specifically designed to scramble eggs
I did that last week, with my 6-year old son.
He usually goes for more mass, I go for crumple zones and bits that are designed to break away. We're pretty evenly matched (on several levels).
There are some perks to being a Dad -- being able to play Lego any time is one of them.
Glad to hear it. Unlike most people here it seems, i like the star wars legos. Like everyone else i built star wars craft out of regular legos but never had enough large plates for wings or the right cockpit. A couple specialty pieces aren't that bad, and anyone saying they cant be used for anything else doesnt have any imagination. I havnt avidly collected the minifig scale sets, i only have one or two i think, but theyre in the bins. On my shelf however, i have the first 3 collectors sets, the x-wing, tie interceptor and naboo fighter(havn't wanted to shell out the big bucks for the corellian corvette and star destroyer), aside from the cockpit on the tie and a few smooth bricks with markings on them there really aren't any specialty pieces. Along with the bigass collectors sets i also have all 20 or so of the mini models, which are great. No specialty pieces at all except ones with markings. I'm looking at the new 5 i just got, the mini star destroyer doesn't have any "special" pieces at all, mostly plates, except for a pair of minifig binoculars as turbolasers. Everyones always wanted oficial star wars legos, you know you have because your own versions weren't that great, now stop bitching about it.:p
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
The rumors were started by Slashdot. The original Yahoo! News article quoted in the "Lego to Stop Producing Mindstorms" Slashdot article said absolutely nothing about them dropping Mindstorms at all.
Wow, great ideas.
I've often thought that you should be able to make a robot with sensors, actuators and simple logic built into the eactual bricks themselves, rather than just one massive central computer. Imagine if the bricks themselves contained NAND gates and so forth, you could learn about logic circuits at the same time as building a robot, but without all the messy soldering.
"Taligent is still pure vapor. Maybe they'll be the last who jumps up on Openstep... "
"_led_ to the misunderstanding" instead of "lead to" Used to be an editor. Can't help it.
Astro
There are also Common Lisp and Scheme environments developed for Mindstorms:
n de x.htmls /ll3.pdf
http://www.yuasa.kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~yuasa/xs/i
http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~feeley/paper
My understanding is that they run autonomously on Mindstorms.
at LEGOshop.com - their aimed at getting girls more interested in LEGO.
LRJ
Yea!
I usually get at least one big LEGO set for xmas, this year I got a bunch and a couple were these new sets that are part of their new 'Inventor' series - they're somewhere between the standard Technics sets and the Mindstorm. I still put my Rebel Blockade Runner together first, but these Inventor sets are pretty cool.
LRJ
Interesting .... Do you recall what it was called?
I have assembled just about all the Master Collector Series Star Wars models, between the 8 sets that I have (totaling close to 10,000 pieces) there are probably a total of 10 custom pieces - and even those I'm not too sure are custom, they may have just come from a set I haven't seen. The majority of the parts in those sets are just different colored versions of pieces you could get in their old castle, western, space, mining, etc.... sets - nothing too new. Yes, there are some decals (again, maybe 20 total) that you can put on the pieces to give them a more detailed look but you put the sticker on a normal old LEGO brick.
LRJ
Big fucking deal.
No, although next time I see him I'll ask. Apparently LEGO is big in Norway with the kids also, almost to the point of fetish. My friends told me that they have a lot of time on their hands in the Winter. Interestingly enough, while they said that it was in the 20s' outside and they Yorge had a large screen live picture from a Miami webcam up, he said it just looked warmer than looking out the window.
It doesn't matter what you wrap your emotions around, Reality is a brick wall specifically designed to scramble eggs
If you remember could you pass it on to me, mlush AT hgmp dot mrc dot ac dot uk