Slashdot Mirror
"DVD-Jon" Demands Compensation
orzetto writes "Jon Lech Johansen, known as DVD-Jon, and aquitted in a trial in Norway, after being accused of infringement for making a GUI for DeCSS, is now demanding that Norwegian Oekokrim pay for all the time and money he has lost to the trial, claiming 150,000 NOK (about 17,500 euros)."
Slashdot's gone cold I'm wondering why I got out of bed at all
The morning rain clouds up my window and I can't see at all
And even if I could it'll all be gray but your picture on my wall
It reminds me, that it's not so bad -- it's not so bad
Dear Rob, I wrote but you still ain't callin
I left my email, my ICQ, and my yahoo chat at the bottom
I sent two emails back in autumn, you must not-a got 'em
There probably was a problem with your sendmail or somethin
Sometimes I scribble email addees too sloppy when I jot 'em
but anyways; fsck it, what's been up? Man how's your boxes?
My boxes is linux too, I'm bout to be a compiler
once I learn gcc,
I'ma go on and compile for hours
I read about your Palm Pilot too I'm sorry
I had a friend lose his Palm over at the airport in Maradonna
I know you probably hear this everyday, but I'm your biggest fan
I even read all your bullshit Linux news and Microsoft's man
I got a room full of your posters and your pictures man
I like the way you sold your ass out too, that shit was fat
Anyways, I hope you get this man, hit me back,
just to chat, truly yours, your biggest fan
This is Stan
Dear Rob, you still ain't called or wrote, I hope you have a chance
I ain't mad - I just think it's FSCKED UP you don't answer fans
If you didn't wanna talk to me outside your Linux World
you didn't have to, but you coulda signed an autograph for Matthew
That's my Senior sys admin he's only 26 years old
We waited on a 9600 baud for you,
four hours and you just said, "No."
That's pretty shitty man - you're like his fsckin idol
He wants to be just like you man, he likes you more than I do
I ain't that mad though, I just don't like bein lied to
Remember when we met in Boston - you said if I'd write you
you would write back - see I'm just like you in a way
I never had a clue about shit either
I gcc'd shit with my wife then beat her
I can relate to what you're saying in your page
so when I feel like rmusering I read Slashdot to begin the rage
cause I don't really got shit else so that shit helps when I'm depressed
I even got a tattoo of slashdot across the chest
Sometimes I even packet myself to see how much it floods
It's like adrenaline, the DDoS is such a sudden rush of blood
See everything you say is real, and I respect you cause you tell it
My girlfriend's jealous cause I talk about you 24/7
But she don't know you like I know you Rob, no one does
She don't know what it was like for people like us growin up
You gotta call me man, I'll be the biggest fan you'll ever lose
Sincerely yours, Stan -- P.S.
We should be together too
Dear Mister-I'm-Too-Good-To-Waste-A-Packet-On-My-Fans,
this'll be the last packet I ever send your ass
It's been six months and still no word - I don't deserve it?
I know you got my last two emails
I wrote the @ signs on 'em perfect
So this is my payload I'm sending you, I hope you hear it
I'm on my modem now, I'm doing 9600 baud so fear it
Hey Rob, I drank a fifth of vodka, you dare me to code?
You know the song by Deep Purple or Slayer
its irrelevant by playing on my linux player
while I write some php scripts and play some Dragonslayer
That's kinda how shit is, you coulda rescued me from drowning
Now it's too late - I'm on a 1000 downloads now, I'm drowsy
and all I wanted was a lousy letter or a call
I hope you know I ripped +ALL+ of your pictures off the wall
I love you Rob, we coulda been together, think about it
You ruined it now, I hope you can't sleep and you dream about it
And when you dream I hope you can't sleep and you SCREAM about it
I hope your conscience EATS AT YOU and you can't BREATHE without me
See Rob {*screaming*} Shut up bitch! I'm tryin to code
Hey Rob, that's my senior admin screamin from the comode
but I didn't cut the power off, I just rebooted, see I ain't like you
cause if rm -rf'd we'd suffer more, and then the boxes
That is about $22,000. I would want my money back, too.
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein
They wasted enough of his time and money.
Maybe they'll follow Seattle's example and pay him off with a free DVD and a masterclass on DVD authoring.
I hope the okokrim sues the MPAA for getting them into his mess in the first place...
The Slashdot Paradox: "100% Overrated"
... DVD-Jon also requests a copy of LORD:ROTH special edition DVD! ;)
'Go for the eyes, Boo, go for the eyes, aaarrrrrrrr!' -- Minsc
Fair enough, the bills are quite expensive, does he get a piece of the DeCSS shirts on ThinkGeek? (only half joking)
If nothing else, he might raise more public interest and get donations that way.
I think it's common sense that if you're a defendant and found not guilty that you shouldn't have to pay. Frankly, I'm surprised something like this doesn't exist already. Perhaps if the plaintiff had to pay ALL court costs if he/she lost there would be fewer nonsensical lawsuits.
IANAL, that's just my two cents.
"Jon, we will compensate you in remaindered copies of 'Little Nicky', 'Crossroads', and 'Ishtar' in DVD."
Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
This is not the sig line you are looking for... -- Old Jedi Sig Line Trick
This went on for quite a while, i'm surprised that the number isnt much higher (like in the 75k range).
Someone sues me and wastes my time (the more important part) and money then you betcha I'd sue back. Although it sounds Jon is just demanding and not suing.
I hope this isn't considered a surprise...to anyone.
:wq
I hope he prevails. Perhaps it will give other prosecutors pause, to think out their case. If you have a weak case and know you are going to have to pay all cases, you might decide to forego prosecution and use your resources on cases which aren't weak. This benefits the society as a whole.
IANALBIPOOSWIAB (I am not a lawyer but I play one on slashdot when I am bored) --
In da US they call thems dere sorts of stuff 'Wrongful Prosecution'. I wonder how they would handle this in Norvay. I mean, as I understood it when it was escalated to the higher court it was a civil-type charge. Wrongful Pros cases in the US historically deal with criminal prosecutions. yes yes, I know nothing of norvegian law, yes yes i'll stfu, sorry...
If people continue to fight these lawsuits and counter-sue, rather than just settle, then these companies will be discouraged from these rages in the future because it will end up costing them more in dollars & negative PR than it's worth.
He didn't have to pay lawyer's fees, and from the sounds of it outside of having something like this looming over his head for years it's probably been a boon to him overall (he won't have to worry about finding work, for one thing.) It's probably a better time to count blessings than demand renumeration.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
It is really sad to see this happening to society. We have gone from struggling to provide print media for those in struggling third-world countries and yet we have these "union-esque" groups who are just going sue happy (RIAA, SCO, MPAA etc...).
It seems to me that our civilization (North American/European and East Asian) has reached a plateau where we could very easily stop trying to fight amongst ourselves, back off and lend a helping hand to all those countires that are just trying to punch through industrialization. I'm not suggesting we put our future on hold but perhaps it is time to, at least on a small level, reassess the important things - like food, water, shelter, comfort and open source software.
The MPAA might think its doing itself and those artists it protects a afvor by fighting for them but really, these actors make more money than the doctor who ay one day save their lives. Aren't priorities a little confused here?
Again, just my opinion but in my "idyllic world" everyone's opinion has something to add (and for SPAMMERS that might be inches to your member!)
My theory is that he simply wants the money and wants it now. I'd much rather ask for $22k and have the other company settle immediately than the alternative. If he asks for $150 the court will say it didn't really cost him that much and lower the amount to $75k. Subtract the $50K of lawyer fees it would take him to SUE THEM for the money and he's left with $25k. It's in everyone's interest to ask for a more reasonable amount and just settle out of court.
Jamon
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
I just had to bitch about something in the article. "It's a modest claim by international standards, amounting to around USD 20,000."
That doesn't matter at all. Does the 150,000NOK have the same purchasing power in Norway as 20,000USD has in the states? If not, the comparison is completely worthless.
If it costs 4CAD for a carton of large eggs here and 24XXX for the same in some fictional country, but the exchange rate is 1XXX for every 2CAD, then they certainly don't have the same purchasing power, do they?
Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk -- coldacid.net
Hell, I'd give a couple of bucks!
"Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
Is that possible in your jurisdiction?
In Scandinavia (and I expect that holds for the rest of europe as well), you're elegible for compensation for wrongfull arrests and/or accusation from the police. They have no ways of countersuing.
//Wegge
...hackers sue the prosecutors!
I was forced to read all those damn articles about DVD-Jon. I want to be compensated for this.
Jon Johansen is not the hero for open source software as he likes to describe himself lately.
The truth is, he is a liar, a defender of closed source software, ignorant to the GPL and a guy who simply wanted to copy DVDs. His lies lead most of us to believe that he is a good guy and got him even free a legal team paid by EFF.
Read more about DVD-Jon:
http://www.chscene.ch/ccc/decss/decsstruth.txt
So really, what you're saying is that "DVD Jon" deserved to be sued for trying to watch a DVD he bought, and deserves to pay for his defense even though a court has sided with him twice?
This case is not about stealing copyrighted works . It's about who owns the things that you buy.
So really, what everyone here is saying, is that it's OK to crack proprietary code ("code must be free"), steal copyrighted works ("music must be free") and get away with it.
You have it all wrong. We are saying that on top of all that, the companies who's code he cracked should pay him.
150,000 NOK in Norway have definitely less purchasing power than their countervalue in dollars in the US or any EU country; AFAIK the only country more expensive than Norway is Iceland, and maybe (some areas of) Japan.
I think this is mostly about principles than money, 150000 is not really a bunch. My 54-sq. meters flat (here in Norway) is worth 840,000 NOK, and I got quite a deal at buying that. Iceberg salad is 20-30 NOK for about half a kilo. A half liter of beer at a pub can range between 40 and 70 NOK. And I didn't yet mention anything with more than 10% alcohol in it!
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
The failed prosecution of DVD Jon demonstrates that Norway, at least, protects the rights of its citizens from corporate/government collusion to persecute. He might be due $20K, a decent return for a Norwegian 20 year old's part-time college job as inexpert witness in his own defense. But Jon's damages from their unmerited actions fall less on his wallet than on his spirit. The real damage was the threats to his liberty, arrest, denigration, disgrace and professional disenfranchisement. These years of undeserved defensive living can not be restored, and have no price.
In the US, there is a distinction between civil and criminal violations of law, and their remedies. While the vagaries of US history, and lawyerly perversions of principles of "justice" often assign "punitive damages" to perpetrators and award them to victims, criminal penalties are assigned to those who damage intangibles: public trust, individual liberty, principles of Justice itself. In DVD Jon's case, there is a great deal of that kind of damage, to Jon, and to his compatriots, and ripples to us, in other countries.
The remedy includes holding those behind these prosecutions liable for their actions in wrongfully prosecuting him. Moreover, if this kind of wrongful prosecution is found to be systemic, the judge ought to assign changes in the system. Otherwise the perpetrators will be free to attack Liberty without repercussions, and the rising tide of corporate attacks on human rights will pervade Norway. Combine corporate financial superiority with their liability immunity advantage, and it looks pretty bad for the humans. Unless Norwegians see themselves in DVD Jon's shoes, and get their country back on track.
--
make install -not war
Her case was based primarily on poor or non-existing evidence and character assasination (among other things, she likened Johansen to gang-bangers). She wasted Johansen's time, the judges' and jury's time, and taxpayer money. So yes, Johansen is in the right to seek compensation from Okokrim.
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
So really, what everyone here is saying, is that it's OK to crack proprietary code ("code must be free"), steal copyrighted works ("music must be free") and get away with it.
No. The Norwegian legal system is saying that that Jon Johansen's actions were legal. If you disagree with their conclusions (and want to do something other than whine about the attitudes of Slashdotters like yourself), you should explain your reasoning to the legislative body of the Norwegian government and the Motion Picture Association of America (which prompted this legal action.)
Unfortunately, prices in Norway are extremely high, mostly because of all that oil money causing inflation. This more than offsets the current weakness of the USD.
The reason that the amount is so low is quite another; in Norway damages are strictly based on the actual money lost (well, and to a lesser amount things like emotional damage). If you asked for american-style amounts ("I'm suing for $300.000.000!"), you would be laughed out of court.
Jon used a public defender, so his costs weren't that high.
I choose to remain celibate, like my father and his father before him.
So really, what everyone here is saying, is that it's OK to crack proprietary code ("code must be free"), steal copyrighted works ("music must be free") and get away with it. Aperently most of you still live at home (like DVD Jon) and don't directly have to pay bills, except for maybe your stash and some Dew now and then.
No, what we're saying is that it's legal to reverse-engineer hardware and software for the purposes of interoperability and exercising your fair-use rights. In other words, it's perfectly legal to crack the CSS encryption on DVDs so that you can watch the DVDs that you legally purchased on your Linux computer, which after all these years still has no commercial DVD playing software.
We also recognize that there's a big difference between stealing (depriving someone of a physical product they own) and copyright infringement (making a digital copy of something, which doesn't deprive the owner of their copy nor does it deprive the copyright holder of any revenue if you otherwise wouldn't have purchased it). We also recognize that morally there is a big difference between downloading a few MP3s off the Internet (just for fun, to try out new bands, for albums that are not being produced anymore - which is no more immoral than borrowing a book or a CD from a friend) and wholesale mass-copying (people who burn 'pirated' CDs and sell them in the streets).
I think there should always be different standards for individuals and corporations. For instance, if Bono saw you selling illegally produced copies of "Achtung Baby" and he called you names and took the CDs, and you took him to court for theft, I think a judge would throw the case out. At least, Judge Judy would ;) But if someone took the RIAA to court for the same thing, they (the RIAA) should get penalized to the full extent of the law.
So if it's "Individual vs. Corp," then Ind. pays own fees if he loses, but Corp pays his fees if he wins, and Corp pays their own fees either way.
If it's "Corp vs. Corp" or "Ind vs. Ind," then loser pays the fees.
So things are biased in favor of the individual, but so many other things are biased in favor of the corporation, it works out alright. And that's the way it should be. I mean, I can't find anything wrong with this reasoning, and I've been thinking about this for a full 10 minutes or so.
c-hack.com |
A half-litre beer cost 25NOK at a student pub (run by students, for the student societies), 29NOK at the cheapest regular pub I know about, and around 50NOK (say 45-60) at most others. At least in Oslo, where I live.
To rent an apartment.. well, that really varies depending on where in Oslo you live. Say between 2500 and 10000, most student get apartments for around 2500-3500NOK/month
Bus ticket: 30NOK if paid when you get onto the bus (in oslo), 20NOK if you've got a prepaid ticket.
Hamburger: Depends on where you buy it. 37NOK for a Big One, 75NOK if you buy yourself a good one at a REAL Hamburger-kiosk.
Coca Cola: aprox 10NOK for a 0.5 litre bottle. Aprox 15NOK for 1.5 litre bottle.
Loaf of bread: really depends on the type of bread. Between 10 and 25 NOK
Cinema ticket: 75 in Oslo.
"Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
victims of the RIAA/MPAA/SCO/etc like Jon who are acquitted should sue them where it hurts. Think of it as a distributed-denial-of-suing attack.
Hey, it is the game they seem to want to play so why not return the favor (or "fight fire with fire"). And we have one thing in our favor; numbers. We have more numbers than they do so if we all sue for deflamation, etc. and win, they will be out of $ to sue ppl with and we would be successful in declawing the menaces.
steal copyrighted works ("music must be free") and get away with it.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Who said anything about stealing? The purpose of DeCSS was originally, and has always been, to decode encrypted DVDs for the purpose of viewing them on platforms where no decoder exists (ie, Linux).
If you're going to claim that you somehow have the right to take away DeCSS because teenaged kiddies use it to pimp out the latest release of the matrix on kazaa, then its only fair that you also take away guns, cars, airplanes, knives, forks, baseball bats, golf clubs, fireplace pokers, and everything else that could conceivably be used in the comission of a murder.
If you're going to backpedal now and claim that copyright isn't anywhere on the same level as murder, then how about a world without printers, fax machines, scanners, and copiers?
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.