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Another Serious MSIE Hole

pjrc writes "Infoworld is reporting another new security hole that allows links to executable files to appear to be any other type of file, such as text or pdf. When combined with a previously reported spoofing bug, that Microsoft still hasn't fixed, Infoworld claims the result could be 'devastating'"

134 of 731 comments (clear)

  1. The Demo by trp642 · · Score: 5, Informative

    A little demo for those still using IE...

    1. Re:The Demo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In other news today microsoft reports that it windows is cheaper than Linux http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/28/073253 &mode=nested&tid=109&tid=126&tid=163&tid=187&tid=9 8&tid=99 The question is were any of thoose test computers attached to the internet?

      It's called Total Cost of Ownership, junior. This is what happens when you get 13 year old Linux elitists all together in web forum like this - a bunch of mis-informed kiddies thinking they know what's best.

      Well, get your head out of your ass and try to grasp the reality: In some incidences it truly is cheaper to run Windows vs *nix. And in some cases (*gasp*) it's the opposite.

      I sincerely hope your trolling for easy karma, because this kind of attitude will shut you out of a lot of opportunities in the future. And no, junior, those 3 lines you added to the kernel doesn't really matter in the end to a possible employer. Get used to it.

      There are way to many Linux elitists here - you can like Linux, you can LOVE Linux, hell you can even hate MS. But to state something which so blatantly shows how uninformed you are is embarrassing. I'd hate to have your UID.

    2. Re:The Demo by RoLi · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The question is rather: "Why do Microsoft-sponsored TCO-studies never include the cost of viruses, worms, security holes and/or countermeasures against viruses, worms and security holes?"

    3. Re:The Demo by fizbin · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Because Microsoft's market share guarantees that a disproportionate amount of viruses and worms will target their OS as opposed to some loser linux freak with an old 486 linux server in his mom's basement. The cost of these things is therefore irrelevant to the actual OS.

      And by the same logic, the cost of getting system administrators for Linux systems, or the availability of Linux software for specialized commercial needs, also both things driven purely (or at least largely) by Microsoft's market share, is "irrelevant to the actual OS". What's left then for a TCO study? The price of a boxed OS CD set? The price of necessary hardware?

      It's really bending over backwards to include in a TCO study the benefits of going with the same OS most of the desktop world is running while at the same time deliberately excluding the costs of using the same system most virus/worm writers target. Lauding the beneficial network effects while declaring the harmful network effects out of the scope of the study is just dishonest.
    4. Re:The Demo by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft's market share guarantees that a disproportionate amount of viruses and worms will target their OS


      Given that statement, wouldn't their market share provide them with greater income to develop better products? I can fully understand the 9x releases not being secure as they were just starting their market dominance. As they've moved to 2000/XP with the lip service of saying they are security minded, I would expect their products to be much more secure (not entirely secure as I understand no application will be totally without fault). The real problem is that we are seeing simple errors that a good code review or software tools would catch.

      You must wake up to the fact that Linux is no longer a basement application. It's being looked at by many corporations thanks to the support of many people and corporations.

      bud. I love microsoft so there is no need for me to try to switch to one of your geeky expiriments.

      Over time, you'll go the way of the dinosaur if you can't evolve to consider all possible IT solutions. Linux is here to stay. Will it wipe out MS, maybe someday, but I see a relatively long period of mixed computing environments where the skill demand will be for people with a variety of skills. Just think about all the mainframe administrators who refused to see the future.

  2. In other words,... by burgburgburg · · Score: 5, Funny
    it's Wednesday.

    1. Re:In other words,... by tonyr60 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is easy to be less than serious about this issue but...

      Spam pretty nuch killed newsgroups, it is its way to doing the same thing for email.

      Microsoft is on track to kill the internet because it cannot deliver a product that can look after your average user. The problem is that unlike newsgroups and email, the internet is a significant contributer to world economy.

      It is near impossible to educate users on how to be carefull, either the products must be secure, or we take a giant step backwards as users desert the internet because they cannot trust it.

      And all because one company with adequate resources does not care. If they did care we would not be faced with this sort of stupidity.

  3. MS vs. Swiss Cheese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Anyone noticed similarities between MSIE and Swiss cheese ?

  4. No wonder by Christoff84 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And people wonder why viruses are so prevalent on windows boxen...

    Now that anyone can spoof not only the url, but the file type, who will know what they are downloading.

    1. Re:No wonder by jpmkm · · Score: 3, Funny

      Boxen? Do you also hunt foxen?

    2. Re:No wonder by jtosburn · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe he just got done with some bagels and loxen, sitting across from some old-school girls wearing bobby-soxen, chatting about all those poor people who died from the small poxen.

      Then he asked, "if you're last name is Cox, do you refer to your family as 'Coxen'?"

      On the other hand, anthropomorphizing computer boxes into the one 'o' 'x' word that ends with 'en' may mean he harbors a secret wish regarding oxen.

  5. Hmmmm... by instantkarma1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wasn't good ol' Bill just extolling the virtues of Windows Security in comparison to other 'unnamed' operating systems the other day?

    Would you like some more pie, Bill?

    1. Re:Hmmmm... by eclectro · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wasn't good ol' Bill just extolling the virtues of Windows Security in comparison to other 'unnamed' operating systems the other day?

      He was busy being "knighted"

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    2. Re:Hmmmm... by pyros · · Score: 2, Funny
      Instead he just gets to stick KBE (Knight Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire) after his MCSE.

      So when he plays air guitar, will we magically be able to hear it?

  6. very simple fix... by mike77 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Anyone can do it.

    DON'T use IE!

    --

    --Keeping the flame wars alive, one post at a time

    1. Re:very simple fix... by Neurotoxic666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      DON'T use IE!

      That's insightful? For practical, personnal or other various reasons, people will keep using it anyway. Besides, when you pay for a product, you expect it to be working correctly and to be secure, so you use it. Period.

      --
      You are more than the sum of what you consume. Desire is not an occupation.
    2. Re:very simple fix... by WesG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can see it now...

      "No Mom you have to put that in your /etc/init.d file! And when was the last time you updated your kernel? What?? No NO! Argggh!....I know you can barely use your computer but just think how secure you are from these nasty links!"

  7. it is... by fuentes · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Infoworld claims the result could be 'devastating'"

    ...to those still using IE.

    1. Re:it is... by Dyvim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A lot of people still use IE, not to mention the fact that probably less than 30% will acutally get this patch! Most people I know don't get patches, and unless they have autoupdate enabled, haven't patched since they got their machine! Most people assume that when the patch comes out it's fixed, but in reality, these security flaws will plague users for a long time to come.

      --
      -A
    2. Re:it is... by hendridm · · Score: 3, Informative

      I wouldn't say those are the only people affected by exploits and outbreaks. I'm using Firebird and Thunderbird, but my inbox still fills up with virus forwards from others who are not, and my connection is often slow or down while the latest worm is making its rounds.

    3. Re:it is... by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 2, Informative

      Remember that IE isn't an app as much as a COM object. If you use Yahoo Messenger, AOL, or explorer, etc., you use IE.

  8. Demo by davidstrauss · · Score: 2, Redundant

    Here's a safe demo of the exploit.

    1. Re:Demo by arkanes · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Amusingly, this would make me blink because actual PDFs open automatically in IE (using the Adobe plugin) and I have to use "Save as..." to get them to disk.

      Theres a couple other inconsistencies - if you do use "Save as" the filename appears to be PDF, but the filetype pre-filter (which is set to the type of file that you're downloading) is "HTML files". Interestingly, in the "open or save" dialog, the file type is blank.

      I'd just like to take this time to slap microsoft for adding yet another way of associating files with applications to piss us all off. We already had enough issues with contradicting file extensions and mime types.

  9. this will show them by atari2600 · · Score: 5, Funny

    A demonstration of the hole is currently on security company Secunia's website and demonstrates that if you click on a link, and select "Open" it purports to be downloading a pdf file whereas in fact it is an HTML executable file.

    Haha this will show them - i am downloading the latest patch from www.mikerowesoft.com - m defen is str..o..noo!!..hel..elp

  10. I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I wonder how well I can navigate the internet with out clicking on any hyperlinks.

  11. Microsoft says: Don't click URLs anymore... by jea6 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "The most effective step that you can take to help protect yourself from malicious hyperlinks is not to click them. Rather, type the URL of your intended destination in the address bar yourself. By manually typing the URL in the address bar, you can verify the information that Internet Explorer uses to access the destination Web site. To do so, type the URL in the Address bar, and then press ENTER."

    Find that hard to believe? http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb; [ln];833786. Remember, type, don't click.

    --

    sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
    1. Re:Microsoft says: Don't click URLs anymore... by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This coming from the same company that broke the attachment mechanism because of pathetically stupid design decisions and instead of fixing their bad design blamed the users for actually doing what attachments were designed for, yes I do believe this.

      I can click attachments without fear in Mozilla, or pretty much any UNIX mailer. Attachments weren't broken until OutLook broke them.

    2. Re:Microsoft says: Don't click URLs anymore... by StringBlade · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Sure, but what "normal" user is going to type in a 300 character URL from an email or website link?

      <http://www.lsp.steelpharm64v.com/host/index.asp?I D=019102309840v0h0293jf8o998239p8valiu23nf8qoa8329 nor87fahl9w8n4fl98q2l938nf97va0283p97thrl9q274g >

      Yeah right.

      HyperText Markup Language was created in part to *link* documents quickly (i.e. so the user doesn't have to type in the document location manually). If we're supposed to just give up hyperlinks, why not just kiss the World Wide Web goodbye?

      --
      ...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
    3. Re:Microsoft says: Don't click URLs anymore... by AbbyNormal · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sorry, I have a patent on that and you'll have to pay me to NOT click on the links.

      Man I knew that fly-by-night patent law degree was worth it!

      --
      Sig it.
  12. From the article by nate1138 · · Score: 4, Funny

    From the article text:

    Doom worm currently reeking havoc across the globe.

    So it's a smelly worm? Or are they trying to say that Windows stinks?

    --
    Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
  13. But, but, but Bill said... by Space+cowboy · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... that Windows is far more secure than Linux or OSX because it gets tested so many more times out there in the wild..

    [Editors note: replace 'tested' with 'tested and found wanting']

    Simon.

    --
    Physicists get Hadrons!
  14. No more dangerous than normal. by doublem · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As MyDoom is showing, hackers don't need an exploit to spread. The social engineering is still more than enough to spread.

    This is a cute vector that can be used to take in another 10% of users, but since it looks like most of them will run any attachment you send them anyway, it's a moot point.

    A few years back, I coded an app and e-mailed it to all our users. The message came "from" the company owner and said "This is a virus, you will destroy all the data you have access to if you run this file."

    If they ran the file, it sent me a message with their computer name, username and other details.

    About 80% of the users ran it.

    I lost all faith in the human race that day.

    --
    "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    1. Re:No more dangerous than normal. by gribbly · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So are you saying that if you received a mail that stated "This is a virus. Click *here* to nuke your hard drive", in a context like that mentioned in the parent post, you would click? Because "no virus would disguise itself as such?".

      Because I certainly wouldn't.

      grib.

      --
      maybe
    2. Re:No more dangerous than normal. by Napolijon · · Score: 2, Funny

      "This is a virus, you will destroy all the data you have access to if you run this file."


      Windows users knew it wouldn't work anyway. :-)

    3. Re:No more dangerous than normal. by selderrr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I did not say that. I would not click it any more than I would purchase one of the aforementioned fake turds in a toy store. But people's behavior in clicking it is understandable both from perspetive of a)curiosity and b)expecting it to be a fake. I was just trying to point out that from his little experiment one can not conclude that people click everything.

      As a sidenote, such sociological experiments are very complex... They are bound by both time, target group, and context. I don't think you can, from one type of mail, conclude anything at all about clicking behavior. But IANABehaviorist

    4. Re:No more dangerous than normal. by Lao-Tzu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They learn better when you actually hurt them.

      What's the backup for, then?

    5. Re:No more dangerous than normal. by Salsaman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I thought MyDoom did use an exploit ? (Exploiting a flaw in Outlook which executes attachments when they are clicked on, getting email addresses from addressbooks, etc, etc).

    6. Re:No more dangerous than normal. by StringBlade · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It's too bad you couldn't code it so if they clicked on the attachment it:
      • sent you an email
      • locked out their account
      • forced a reboot of thier PC

      This way, the user who was an idiot, must now call you and confess as much (even though you already knew). Additionally, you could take the information and collect it for presentation to your superiors suggesting that your organization is in dire need of some anti-virus education because clearly they are posing a threat to the operations of your company.

      If your superiors objected to the test in the first place, compare it to a fire drill.

      --
      ...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
    7. Re:No more dangerous than normal. by doublem · · Score: 2, Funny

      Additional Note:

      I asked the people who clicked the link why they had done such a thing.

      I don't have a file with their exact quotes, but:

      A couple of people thought it had to be something "funny" from the person whose address was on the message

      Over half thought it was a real virus, and clicked it to see "What would happen" or "If it would work." Please note that this was only a couple weeks after "I Love You." infected half the computers on the network, and a company wide meeting about NOT opening attachments that you weren't expecting.

      Half of them thought it was a real virus and opened it anyway.

      This is the kind of brain dead stupidity we're dealing with here people!

      We need to require a license to own and operate a computer. A simple test, NOT opening unknown attachments being one of them.

      --
      "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    8. Re:No more dangerous than normal. by Nevyn · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Over half thought it was a real virus, and clicked it to see "What would happen" or "If it would work." Please note that this was only a couple weeks after "I Love You." infected half the computers on the network, and a company wide meeting about NOT opening attachments that you weren't expecting.

      Half of them thought it was a real virus and opened it anyway.

      My guess is that they'd seen how they'd basically got "time off" when the computers/network went down. And so like rats pressing the button when the light comes on, they did the same again next time the oportunity came along.

      --
      ustr: Managed string API with ave. 44% overhead over strdup(), for 0-20B
  15. not really anymore.. by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Interesting

    the ie has been so full of holes, and there's shitloads of unpatched ie's out there as well, that nobody who wants to have any control over their computer is using it anymore(unless they're stupid enough to trust some middlesoftware like nortons, or simply don't know why their computer is getting less usable by the day. "hey I just wondering why am I getting popups even when I'm not browsing?? it really gets in the way of my spreadsheet work").

    if you have a stock ie and you browse around with it you WILL GET infected with some spyware or another, sooner or later. this is how it has been for the past few years(!) so a new hole hardly changes anything(it has not been trustworthy enough for years to use on random urls from irc/forums/whatever, so another bug is unlikely to change anything).

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  16. I don't think MS cares anymore by Ignorant+Aardvark · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really don't think Microsoft cares any more. They certainly don't care about the security of their customers. I supposed their objective with IE was to dominate the market by packaging it with Windows, and once that was completed, they simply stopped caring about IE. They haven't updated it in over two years, and its competitors have added all sorts of useful features in the meantime. And now that these bugs have been exposed and nothing is being done about it, it's time for people to move on to using other browsers - permanently. If people aren't convinced by the merits of other browsers, maybe they'll be convinced when their "tried and true IE" allows them to be scammed/defrauded.

    1. Re:I don't think MS cares anymore by l1_wulf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ah, you left out one important IE problem. It also doesn't follow standards; there are a lot of display issues when working out a design in CSS that require hacks to get them to display right in IE.

      If Microsoft will actually re-release IE with better security, less proprietary crap and more standards adherence, they will get a win/win instead of a losing all around. Their end users will be happy, the designers of websites will be happy, and while IE will always be a major target, their patchers may get a little relief.

      Nope, I'm not a MS basher (heh, look at my previous posts), but in the same respect I'm not a MS zealot either. The bottom line is, IE definitely is in need of a long overdue major overhaul.

    2. Re:I don't think MS cares anymore by eclectro · · Score: 3, Funny

      I really don't think Microsoft cares any more

      It's called pride of 0wn3rship.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  17. Ye gods... by Cleon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are times when I wonder if Microsoft isn't purposely trying to get everybody on the Net own3d.

    I mean, what kind of frikkin' bug would make an executable link pretend to be something else? If I believed in conspiracy theories, I'd swear it was deliberate.

    --
    Gifts for Geeks - Stuff that really matters!
    1. Re:Ye gods... by El · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

    2. Re:Ye gods... by nate1138 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      There was a theory (from Cringely, I believe) that Microsoft is doing all this intentionally. They really missed the boat on the whole "Internet" thing in the begining, and this was their plan of attack:

      1. Plague windows with remote insecurities
      2. Blame this on the designs of the open standards that currently power the net
      3. Release MSTCP/IP, with built in encryption, authentication and DRM as a "solution" to the problem at hand (virus, spam, etc)
      4. Profit!

      Yeah, I didn't really buy it either (and I LIKE conspiracy theories)
      --
      Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
  18. According to Bill, this is a good thing by burgburgburg · · Score: 4, Informative
    While at a Longhorn Developers conference in London, Bill explained that ""A high-volume system like (Windows) that has been thoroughly tested will be by far the most secure," than it's low-attack competitors like Mac OS X and Linux.

    Gates also explained "To say a system is secure because no one is attacking it is very dangerous," and proposed that "hackers are good for maturation" of the platform, because they have forced the company to develop new inspection techniques for the code.

    Of course, virus writers are getting lazy now. According to Microsoft software architect Chris Anderson, "Today, virus writers don't find holes," he said. "They just sit back and wait for patches to appear, and then it is a race to write the first virus. We want to get patch deployment down from days or weeks to hours."

    1. Re:According to Bill, this is a good thing by TimTheFoolMan · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "They just sit back and wait for patches to appear, and then it is a race to write the first virus. We want to get patch deployment down from days or weeks to hours.

      Is that so virus writers won't have to wait days or weeks before releasing a new version?

      Tim

    2. Re:According to Bill, this is a good thing by Salsaman · · Score: 2, Informative
      A high-volume system like (Windows) that has been thoroughly tested will be by far the most secure

      So then is he admitting that Apache is more secure than IIS ?

    3. Re:According to Bill, this is a good thing by sharkey · · Score: 2, Funny
      According to Microsoft software architect Chris Anderson, "Today, virus writers don't find holes," he said. "They just sit back and wait for patches to appear, and then it is a race to write the first virus. We want to get patch deployment down from days or weeks to hours."

      Then he muttered under his breath, "like Linux."

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  19. Re:But MS is "fixing" other issues... by spune · · Score: 2, Insightful

    pardon my naivette, but wouldn't that conflict with specifying a user and pass such as in ftp addresses?

  20. small detail, slightly OT by happyfrogcow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    in fact it is an HTML executable file.

    Maybe I'm behind the times, could someone explain precisely what they mean by an HTML executable file? That doesn't make sense to my "HTML is plain text" portion of knowledge.

    1. Re:small detail, slightly OT by arkanes · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm mostly guessing here but it looks the the CLSID identifies it as an HTA (HTML application) component, which MS was hyping as all the rage in application developlment a few years back. Basically, it's like an XUL app - written in HTML and JScript. Portions of the Win2k+ UI are written using it, like the add/remove programs dialog.

    2. Re:small detail, slightly OT by Anarchofascist · · Score: 2, Informative
      Maybe I'm behind the times, could someone explain precisely what they mean by an HTML executable file? That doesn't make sense to my "HTML is plain text" portion of knowledge.


      The demo version sends and "executes" an HTML file, but the same channel could be used to send and execute an executable. They were just being careful to make their exploit demo safe to use.

      --
      Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our American dead!
    3. Re:small detail, slightly OT by shfted! · · Score: 4, Informative

      Okay, you have a file, called trojan.exe on the webserver. You make a link in the html to link to "trojan.exe". Then you configure the web-server to tell the web browser that the mime-type (a way to indentify the content of the file) of trojan.exe is "text/html". IE sees "text/html" and says "ahh! I know what to do! Open this!", thinking it's a webpage. IE then looks at the file and says "ahh! This file ends in .exe! I know how to open this!" and executes the file. The user is thusly infected ;)

      Of course, there is no prompt: who wants to see a prompt every time they navigate to another page on the web? And who wants to see a prompt every time they double-click an executable file in Explorer?

      --
      He who laughs last is stuck in a time dilation bubble.
    4. Re:small detail, slightly OT by sparkz · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nearly right.
      HTML docs are "executable" because they can automatically invoke Java
      You link to trojan-{ASDSADSAFHDAKFDJFJDA}-horse.pdf (where the {ASDASFADFDFA} crap is what tells IE that it's text/html, not PDF.
      The "Open" dialog looks at the ".pdf" and says it's a PDF; when you click "Open", instead of launching Acrobat to view a PDF file, Windows says "the {ASDASASFAASD} tells me it's text/html - I'll use Internet Explorer, not Acrobat".
      So you were expecting an innocent PDF document, and you get an HTML web page, presumably containing JavaScript or similar which will is executable.

      --
      Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
  21. Re:But MS is "fixing" other issues... by Neophytus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Beleive it or not, but many people have a use for http://username:password@domain links, especially in bookmarks. Perfectly secure on a computer used by one person :)

  22. Re:But MS is "fixing" other issues... by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Microsoft is deprecating the use of "@" in URLS.

    The popularity of IE is about to drop sharply as the entire XXX-site-password-hacking community finds their reliable tricks no longer work.

    Should knock MS's browser marketshare down 10-15% just from that alone.

  23. Re:Here it comes... by Incongruity · · Score: 5, Informative
    Let's bash the shit out of MS. In fact, you can do that while installing the 35th sendmail patch this week. Or the 54th SSH. Or the... (etc etc) Whatever makes you feel less like an angry hate monger :)

    The difference is that they actually patch sendmail and SSH for the security problems found...in the MSIE case, a number of problems have yet to be patched (so here comes the other usual response...did you actually read the article??)

  24. Exploit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    This appears to use the MS CLSID as the target. To find the CLSID for any file type, simply look in the windows registry in HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT. If you attach the CLSID to the end of the filename, windows will hide this from you completely. Thus, if you request a file iloveyou.vbs.txt.{5e941d80-bf96-11cd-b579-08002b30 bfeb} - it will show up as a text file. Other holes would allow the web site to hide the .exe, vbs, etc part of the file name. In the past, the workaround for this was the big IE warning that you were downloading a harmful file... however this is now undermined.

  25. If I had a dollar by BoomerSooner · · Score: 5, Funny

    for every person who constantly bitches about "pop-ups" or something messing up my computer related to IE. I'd retire. All I say is go to mozilla.org and leave me the hell alone.

    I guess being a computer professional is like being a doctor. Everyone asks you anything related to your field regardless of the situation (ie, dinner, getting dental work done, ...). I try to explain I'm a $100/hour (yes, outsourcing is my fault) contract software engineer. If you want me to reinstall your OS, Drivers, Applications and backup your data that will be about 6-8 hours (assuming they have any legit install disks) and roughly $600 to $800 total. They usually quit calling after that.

    It's like calling a mechanical engineer to change your fucking tire. Figure it out, it isn't that hard.

    1. Re:If I had a dollar by Stubby · · Score: 2, Funny

      From my experince most Mechanical Engineers would call someone to change their tire for them.
      Admitly I don't work in a Mechanical Eng. Field, but I haven't met one yet that does his own car maintenance.

    2. Re:If I had a dollar by planetmn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why is it that a lot of people here don't know how to do a nice thing for somebody.

      If my in-laws computer needs some work, next time I am over there, I'll take a look at it, or try to help over the phone, it takes all of what, maybe 20 minutes.

      My uncle owns a small business, if I can save him some money by making recommendations for him or giving him some free tech-support, great.

      If you're nice to somebody, they are going to be nice to you, believe me, in the end, it's a wash.

      Plus, life is too short to be an asshole all of the time.

      -dave

      --
      /., where "Apple and Google provide Iran with nukes" will be refuted with "But Microsoft is a convicted monopolist"
    3. Re:If I had a dollar by Ironica · · Score: 2, Interesting

      for every person who constantly bitches about "pop-ups" or something messing up my computer related to IE. I'd retire. All I say is go to mozilla.org and leave me the hell alone.

      Yeah... now tell me how I get the sysadmins in the computer lab at school to go to mozilla.org. "But, then we'd have to *support* it!" which would be oh-so-hard... it would cut into their smoke breaks something awful. (and they'd have less to clean up than with IE.)

      These are the same folks that just "got rid of" profiles on all computers, because they were "too much hassle..." so every time I log in, it's three clicks to get started ("Click Start to begin!" "Take a Tour of Windows XP!" "Clean up your desktop!") Four or five clicks to get through the browser prompts ("You're trying to send data... are you sure?" "Would you like me to remember this for you and send it without your knowledge?" "Ok, I know I asked you if you wanted to send data already, but this site is secure..."). And so on.

      Not everyone has control of every computing environment they use. So, yeah, until IE crashes and burns hard enough that people really will stop using it, some of us will complain.

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    4. Re:If I had a dollar by Luscious868 · · Score: 5, Funny
      I guess being a computer professional is like being a doctor. Everyone asks you anything related to your field regardless of the situation (ie, dinner, getting dental work done, ...). I try to explain I'm a $100/hour (yes, outsourcing is my fault) contract software engineer. If you want me to reinstall your OS, Drivers, Applications and backup your data that will be about 6-8 hours (assuming they have any legit install disks) and roughly $600 to $800 total. They usually quit calling after that.

      You hit the nail on the head there brother. I'm so sick and tired of people that I barely know calling me when their computer breaks asking for help. It always turns into a friggin 2 - 6 hour event. You know the routine. Uninstalling all the crap that people have downloaded. "Hey, let's install this cool looking Bonzi Buddy thingy, what can it hurt?". The idiots should be shot. Removing spyware, removing the 80 virues that have found there way onto the system. "Hey look at this funny attachment, it's called 'Dont Open Me I'm a Fucking Virus and I'll Fuck Up Your Computer.exe' why don't I open it and see what happens. Maybe it's a funny joke or something."

      I think I'm going to start telling people that I work for the post office and I'm currently taking court ordered anger management classes. That will shut them the fuck up real quick.

    5. Re:If I had a dollar by Phenris+Wolfe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You don't get used as free tech support by a lot of people, do you? I for one know that certain members of my family, and certain "friends" of mine will probably be calling me for the first time since the blaster worm thanks to MyDoom or whatever it is. They don't have time for me except when their computer goes to hell. Surely I'm not the only one here....

    6. Re:If I had a dollar by Hel+Toupee · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Amen, brother! The worst part is if you do help someone (say a good friend), then they casually overhear that one of their good friends has a computer problem, you're going to be tapped to help that person, too. If I had a dollar for every friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend's computer I had to un-fsck-up, I'd be rich.

      The worst part is that all these people are getting their kit fixed through that one friend as a proxy, and since you didn't charge them (because you were just being nice, really drunk, trying to get *ahem* "On her good side", etc.), you can't charge their social network of unwashed masses either.

      --
      PERL:
      All of the power of Voodoo with most of the understandibility!
    7. Re:If I had a dollar by blincoln · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "But, then we'd have to *support* it!" which would be oh-so-hard...

      End users always complain about this attitude without understanding the reasons behind it.

      It isn't your one Mozilla installation they *really* care about. It is what allowing you to do it would mean: pretty soon people would be running IE, Netscape, Opera, AvantBrowser, and a whole host of other oddball web clients.

      In a situation like that, when someone comes to you with a problem, it multiplies the number of possible reasons by so many that it makes supporting them a nightmare.

      When you've helped administer an environment where your job is to make sure that hundreds or thousands of employees (or students) can do what they need to do, *then* you can complain if you still think everyone should be able to set their own standard.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    8. Re:If I had a dollar by root_42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I second that emotion! I am always glad to help people with their computer problems. But over time they start to take it for granted that I help them for free. I don't know why that is so, but most of the time I am happy to get a thank you.
      Nevertheless I still like to help people with their computer problems, because that's what I love to do.
      It's not about being an asshole all the time, but one has to know when to say "No", and when it's ok to spend some of your time to help others for free.

      --
      [--- PGP key and more on http://www.root42.de ---]
    9. Re:If I had a dollar by Silvers · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Please. I worked tech support for 2.5 years at my university.

      I'll spend 5-10 minutes trying to help someone who just randomly comes up and says 'Hey, I remember you from the help desk. I have this....' Or some friend of a friend. 'Hey, this is my buddy, his computer is...' But thats it. I hardly know the person, and I don't have time. Between my own computer issues and those I was dealing with at work, I want some time not devoted to dealing with how buggy people can make their systems.

      If its a close friend, of course its not a problem. But apparently just because you don't get asked frequently, doesn't mean others don't. Don't let that stop you from making sweeping generalizations though.

    10. Re:If I had a dollar by jostallin · · Score: 2, Funny

      I got this frantic call last week: "I've got an e-mail virus."

      Q: How do you know it's a virus?
      A: Oh, I know the person who mailed it to me and she sent it to me on purpose.

      Q: Why?
      A: Well, I've never gotten a virus and I was curious what it would do, so I asked her to send it.

      Q: And you weren't concerned about infecting yourself on purpose?
      A: No, I'm disappointed because it didn't do anything! I think these 'viruses' are just a lot of Hooey.

      Turns out she's using a Mac and couldn't understand why she wasn't decimated by launching a Windows virus on purpose!

    11. Re:If I had a dollar by cens0r · · Score: 3, Funny

      Every time I fix a computer I get offered something in return. Be it a 6 pack of beer, a free dinner, a couple of drinks at the bar, etc, it's always something. Maybe I just have a nicer social network than you do?

      --
      Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
    12. Re:If I had a dollar by gad_zuki! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >Plus, life is too short to be an asshole all of the time.

      Arguably, assholes are created not born. After the nth time explaining to the same people the same concepts (virus scanner, only download from download.com, etc) its time to face facts, accept the fact they will never learn, and tell them to leave you alone and buy a Mac for their next computer.

      I don't mind doing small favors or explaining something, but I can only do this so many times. On top of it, once people know they can get a hold of you they will not call the people they pay to support them like Dell. At least then they can learn to help themselves. I'd much rather show people how to get their money's worth by calling the people who support their computer and showing them how to do simple searches on google or support.microsoft.com than being on call 24.7 everytime something 'funny' happens. I get enough of that at work.

      It would be very nice if windows users, by default, can just run as User and have a nice GUI to do a runas Administrator with big warnings about how theyre about to install software, etc. I think that's the biggst problem in the windows world - installing stuff is seen as no big deal, when really its not something to be taken lightly.

    13. Re:If I had a dollar by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 5, Funny
      I work for Local University (TM) at the medical library, which handles tech support for the campus. With the recent outbreak of the worm of the day, I've taken it upon myself to create a web page for our users on best computing practices. I'm still putting it together, so mostly it's just getting blocked out for structuring the content.

      Here's one of the sections that I wrote more out of catharsis than actual informative intent. It certainly won't make the web, but it got my point across.

      Don't Put Strange Things in Your Mouth

      It doesn't take fancy book-learnin' to catch on when you recieve an emailed attachment that you didn't ask for -- especially when it starts turning up from lots of different addresses in a short period of time. Opening an unrequested email attachment is about as hygenic as chewing on a urinal cake, and you should know better. That means you, Doctor Six-Years-in-Medical-School.
    14. Re:If I had a dollar by StringBlade · · Score: 4, Informative
      I do a lot of free tech support for friends and family. However, I take the time to educate them on what not to do and give them the tools they need to help protect themselves.

      For example, when I find someone is prone to visiting lots of websites with "fun stuff" to download and play with (such as card-making programs and other crap like that) I find oodles of spyware and adware on their computer bogging it down. I explain to them that the sites they visit and the software they're downloading in installing this junk on their computer and that's why it's slow. Refraining from downloading these things will help prevent this in the future.

      Additionally I give them:

      and make sure their AV software (which most have) is up-to-date.

      Finally, for the worst offenders, after giving them tips (writing them down even) and explaining it over and over again, I limit them to 5 - 10 fixes. After that, they cannot ask me for help unless it's a completely different problem (if I find it's the same old same old, I leave and tell them to fix it).

      You can be nice, but you don't have to be a pushover. Developing a methodology for helping others simplifies the process and helps alleviate the frustration on a case-by-case basis.

      As much as we all hate cliches sometimes they apply: Give a man a fish and he is not hungry for a day; teach a man to fish and he is not hungry for a lifetime

      ...or the other less well known proverb: Give a man a blanket and he is warm for a night; set him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. :-)

      --
      ...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
    15. Re:If I had a dollar by cyborch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People who just want there computer to do what they want are simply consumers.

      I hate to be like this, but it's "their", not "there". Once that is said I am doomed to make at least one spelling og grammatical error, but the three/their confusion is getting to my nerves. I'm sorry.

      All most people want is:
      a: web forms filled automatically and easy. every time after set up.
      b: easy communication with other people

      What do you base this on? My personal experience is quite different. Many of my friends are computer-litterate, and thus want much more from their (not there) computers. It would seem that the goals you state are your own and you are simply generalizing based on your own desires.

      People, as a whole, do not expect a constent malious attempt on there person or property. Nor should they have to.

      People do not have to be careful in a world where no bad people live. Sadly some bad people live in our world. We teach our kids to be vary of strangers offering them candy. We should teach our kids to be vary of strange software offering then "candy".

      I sincerely believe that all this "userfriendlyness" (is that a word?) in computers is for the worse. If we had left computers in a less userfriendly state and in stead made specialized devices for specific tasks, such as a "play with your games" device, and a "communicate with other people" device we would not see so many people fscking up their (not there) systems. Computers as we know them are simply too complex for the average person. The seemingly simple interfaces we have today lead less computer litterate people to believe that they stand a chance of understanding how their (not there) computers work.

    16. Re:If I had a dollar by Kris_J · · Score: 2, Interesting
      A friend at work said that he couldn't stop IE from going to a range of search pages with pop-ups when he started it. He'd run Adaware and still couldn't get rid of the problem. He went away with a USB flash device containing the latest Mozilla installer.

      I'm going to have to pull a weekend at work soon installing a new version of our database client on every PC. I'm going to put Mozilla on all the machines at the same time. Won't make it the default or anything, but if anyone starts to have problems with IE, my first solution will be to switch to Mozilla. I've had enough of this crap.

    17. Re:If I had a dollar by Afrosheen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're exactly right.

      When enough people get to know you as the local computer guy, you'll get phone calls, visits, you name it. People will expect it to be free by default unless you set a price. Make it fair but worth your time.

      Anyone on here bitching about 'feeling obligated' to provide 'free support', stop bitching. It's your own fault it's free. Charge a price. Believe it or not people are willing to pay their friends a reasonable fee, even if it's not cash. Tell them to rent a movie for you and bring it over, or bake a cake, or get a six pack of Guinness, whatever. I have a big box of Krispy Kreme sitting here from a friend of mine that needed spyware removed yesterday.

      Once you get people trained to think that indeed, your time and expertise are worth something, you won't even have to make requests. People will open their wallets or bring you stuff automatically.

      Don't let your passive-aggressive geek nature leave you with regrets or feeling used. Assert yourself.

  26. Re:But MS is "fixing" other issues... by Welsh+Dwarf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Great, so now when I try to connect to my laptop a la ftp://name:password@laptop/ from work, it'll through me out.

    Cool

    Just what I needed, more MS interferance. And no, unfortunatly I can't force mozilla everywhere I go, and samba is a lot more of a pain (ftp is universal).

    P.S: the server is only accessable from internal and only when I choose, so no, it's not a security risk

    --
    Ask 8 slackers a question, get 10 awnsers (a citation, but I can't remember from who)
  27. Mozilla Firebird by Peredur · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It appears that Mozilla is only partially safe from this type of bug. When I went to the test page it still showed up as being a pdf in the filename field but identified as a html file. It then asked me what I wanted to do and defaulted to "open with mozilla firebird". This bug may be bigger than reported.

    1. Re:Mozilla Firebird by pacsman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When I went to the demonstration site and clicked the link in Mozilla 1.5 it showed the file name as "ie.%7B3050f4d8-98B5-11CF-BB82-00AA00BDCE0B%7DSecu nia_Internet_Explorer%252Epdf" and asked what to do with it, by default saving it to disk. Even if you were an internet clueless person somehow using Mozilla this still doesn't seem as dangerous if for no other reason than the bizarre filename, which doesn't look the least like it's a .pdf file. On IE it asks if you want to download "...Secunia_Internet_Explorer.pdf" which looks much worse as far as disguising itself goes.

    2. Re:Mozilla Firebird by GoofyBoy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >this still doesn't seem as dangerous if for no other reason than the bizarre filename, which doesn't look the least like it's a .pdf file.

      It does look like a pdf file.

      "something ending with the letters pdf. It must be a pdf file. Lets just run it."

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    3. Re:Mozilla Firebird by sik0fewl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's strange, my filename is shown as ie.{3050f4d8-98B5-11CF-BB82-00AA00BDCE0B}Secunia_I nternet_Explorer%2Epdf.htm under Firebird 0.7 on Windows.

      --
      I remember when legal used to mean lawful, now it means some kind of loophole. - Leo Kessler
  28. Not that simple by blorg · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I use Opera myself and absolutely detest IE, but that doesn't help with the fact that IE is embedded in both the OS and very many other products - Outlook is an obvious example, but there are countless others, such as Winamp's minibrowser. It's very easy for developers to embed IE (e.g. the MSHTML control) in a product.

    Mozdev has some tips about completely disabling IE, even in other applications.

  29. Redundant headline by DocSnyder · · Score: 5, Funny
    "Another Serious MSIE Hole" could be shortened a bit:

    • Another - unnecessary.
    • Serious - less serious holes don't get any attention.

    What's left: "MSIE Hole".

    • Hole - what else?

    Still left: "MSIE"

    As most serious security problems affect MSIE, it can be omitted as well. The least redundant informative headline would be:

    • ""
    1. Re:Redundant headline by rokzy · · Score: 3, Funny

      "" could also stand for "SCO lies" or "RIAA acts like a dick", so I think "IE" would be best.

  30. Those In The Dark by Eberlin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ok, I've been following this stuff for years now. For years I've asked "what will it take for people to switch?" I thought maybe the next big MS bug. Then I got sick of waiting and went straight into frustration.

    Why do people stay with MS software? Users have been lied to, let down, pushed around (licensing tactics), and even left hanging -- their systems wide open as vulns remain unpatched. If this were a social relationship, people would call it abusive and advice you to get the heck out of it faster than not!

    I keep hearing "this year will be the year MS goes down" over and over again, year after year. I'm frustrated and I believe so are a lot of other people. They are neither improving nor are they visibly dying...and I'd like to know why people are still so tolerant of them even after all they've done.

  31. Re:Patches Don't matter if... by El · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hey, don't complain -- they also check to make sure you have enough disk space to REMOVE software, too!

    --

    "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  32. Wrong issue by rewt66 · · Score: 2, Informative
    Hint: Read the article before posting. (I know, this is Slashdot - what was I thinking?)

    Anyway, you're talking about the virus. The article is talking about downloads from web sites, where you can't tell what type of file you're downloading - you think you're getting a .pdf, and you're really getting an executable. And you gave it permission to download, because you knew that the file was of a safe type! The type you approved was safe, it just wasn't the type of the real file.

    Combined with another (not yet fixed) bug that lets web sites spoof which domain they are in, and you have all kinds of fun - downloading a trojan when you think you're downloading a .pdf or even .txt from a trusted site...

    But you really can't blame stupid users for this one. If the browser lies to you about what site you're really visiting, and lies about what type of file you're downloading, there's no $&%^$^%$ way that it's the user's fault. The blame lies exactly with Microsoft.

  33. Re:wtf is an HTML executable? by Hentai · · Score: 5, Informative

    .HTA file. Another WONDERFUL idea by Microsoft, where IE's HTML parser is given permission to execute pretty much anything it wants, and then you use HTML and Javascript to write the equivalent of GUI batch files.

    Cool idea in the right hands, but here it's a disaster waiting to happen.

    --
    -Hentai [in vita non pacem est]
  34. Another? by djupedal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Infoworld claims the result could be 'devastating'"

    I claim the result of MS on the world to be 'devastating'.

    There. The 'cut-to-the-chase' summation of where this thread should eventually go.

    How many times to do we have to be reminded of the vulgarity that has seeped out of Redmund since the beginning?

    hi/HELLO/Error/Status/The message cannot be represented in 7-bit ASCII encoding and has been sent as a binary attachment.

  35. If you aren't by Apreche · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is just another opportunity to check and make sure. If you are still using IE, switch to Firebird. Now. If you don't see the obvious benefit, something is wrong with you. If anyone who still insists on using IE reads this post, please tell me why you wont switch. I really want to see what people are thinking who are still using IE. There is really no excuse anymore in my eyes.

    Really, I'm genuinely interested in reasons IE users are still using IE. I just can't comprehend what you're thinking.

    --
    The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
    1. Re:If you aren't by BigFire · · Score: 2, Informative

      Google Tool Bar? You oboviously aren't aware of the Firebird Google Bar Extension.

  36. Suggestions? by EvilOpie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I know this isn't an ask slashdot topic, but does anyone have any tips for how to get people to switch from IE to Mozilla/Firebird? I just don't understand why I can't get people to change, and Lord knows I've tried.

    I don't understand it, I really don't. I've seen people complain about viruses, bugs, pop-ups, and ads, and yet when I suggest that they go with Mozilla, they don't want to switch. Why? "Because IE's there." Or "because Mozilla takes too long to load." "Using quickstart isn't worth it because IE starts when the system does, so why run two browsers at the same time?" But yet they'll complain about a 5 second load time for Mozilla, when they'll spend more time than that closing pop-ups and resetting their homepage from where someplace changed it. I've even come across the situations where people won't switch because Mozilla had a different print screen (even though I used an IE skin so the rest looked the same), and one didn't want to use it because when you opened a "new" window, you didn't get the old window in it. Even after I showed them the clone window extension (which is pretty close to the same functionality), he didn't switch. It's just frustrating.

    It's sad, Microsoft has people so brainwashed that they'll complain until they're blue in the face that IE sucks, and yet they won't switch unless you put a gun to their head. So does anyone have any suggestions for just how to make them switch? (without actually putting a gun to their head)

    --
    -Through the server, over the router, off the firewall... Nothing but 'Net!
    1. Re:Suggestions? by Baron_Yam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Convince the IT manager to let you demo Mozilla for them. Use the Windows skin, and whatever plugins you wish to make it as IE-like as possible.

      Assuming you convince the manager, continue on with testing Mozilla for compatibility with every critical bit of software the company needs.

      If that works, take the results of your exhaustive tests, add in a report on what problems you're solving by abandoning IE, and get the IT manager to sell it to the Director.

      Now, once the Director makes it policy, you can force the rollout on the users.

      This doesn't work with friends and family, of course, but I am involved in this very process right now at a client site where they are getting quite fed up with security advisories, but aren't ready to move from the Windows OS yet. If I win with Mozilla, I'm trying OpenOffice next.

  37. I remember when Bill said something else by mrvis · · Score: 2, Funny

    Bill said that Windows 98 was over 15% faster. He was about to say it had better access to the internet when he got shot in the head.

    Man, shouldn't that South Park general be the Slashdot mascot?

  38. One person's fix for this exploit. by teledyne · · Score: 2, Funny

    To remove this IE exploit, download this TXT or PDF. Um, it contains the instructions to remove it. Yeah...

  39. Thank You Microsoft! by Luscious868 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Thank you so much for the wonderful idea of fully integrating your web browser into your very secure and stable operating system! Windows XP is simply a joy to work on. I absolutely love it when I'm browsing the web and Internet Explorer crashes, which causes all open windows, including those that have nothing to do with your wonderful little browser, to close as well. What a well thought out idea it was to integrate the browser into the operating system!

  40. Re:Why oh Why... by back_pages · · Score: 2, Interesting
    To add to this, I realized today that I can install a full copy of Mozilla Firebird onto my 64MB USB 2.0 Flash drive. I can plug that thing into any USB port on any Windows box with ME or later, and then run Firebird almost as well as if it were installed to the system's hard drive.

    Even if your company won't let you install Mozilla, even if you need IE for some portion of your work assignments, there is really no reason why you can't do all of your normal web surfing with a web browser that functions properly.

  41. So, is this really unfixable? by ru-486 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Quote from the article:

    "The possibilities are endless, and since both spoof issues appear to be unfixable, it must surely place a big question mark over Explorer's viability as a browser."

    They claim that this bug appears to be unfixable while not really providing evidence to support the claim other than implying that if it was indeed fixable Microsoft would have fixed it already.

    Is this just FUD?
    For the love of god I'm sick of patching. Thankfully we are using Microsoft Software Update Services which I highly recommend for automating your MS patching needs. (Hey it's free and works)

  42. Re:where's the damage? by NickFitz · · Score: 3, Informative
    What do you expect your browser to do when you send it a mime header text/html? It can be called .pdf, .txt, .whatever-you-like, but if the mime type is text/html, I'd expect the browser to do its best in running it

    That is not the nature of the vulnerability. IE displays a dialog saying "You are downloading the file:" followed by the filename. That is where the spoofed filename is displayed. The danger is that, if you are expecting, for example, a PDF which you won't want to keep, you will just click "Open", expecting it to start Acrobat Reader. However, once the file is downloaded, its real filename is that of an executable, which runs merrily away, doing whatever it wishes.

    It's got nothing to do with mime types.

    --
    Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
  43. Why does everyone always disparage ... by Snork+Asaurus · · Score: 2, Funny
    mime types?

    They can be quite good - especially when they pretend to be in a glass cage.

    --
    Sigs are bad for your health.
  44. Reminds me of the old joke by mcc · · Score: 3, Funny

    Q: How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a light bulb?

    A: They don't, they just redefine darkness as the new standard.

  45. New Acronym: "A.S.S. Hole" by tds67 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Another Silly Software Hole.

    1. Re:New Acronym: "A.S.S. Hole" by tds67 · · Score: 2, Funny
      Another Silly Software Hole.

      A program's "A.S.S. Hole" can be defined as "a point of entry not intended for exploitation", so in this regard it is similar to the human variety.

  46. It's even worse by zzxc · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's even worse. The filename doesn't have to be in the hyperlink - it can also be in the headers. So, the url could be http://someuniversity.edu/~somestudent/exam_answer s.txt

    The header could then have "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=Exam_Answers.txt{INSERT_executable_file_C LSID}"

    The CLSIDs are under "HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT.MIME.Database.Content Type"

    The example above would secretly have the file type of your choice but would be known as Exam_Answers.txt. You won't see the CLSID unless you look at it from the command prompt. If you click on it, it executes whatever file type you wanted.

    You can't use a machine code executable file (.exe) directly, however, because it doesn't have a content-type/CLSID pair in windows. (well, it does, but there isn't one just for .exe files... even MS wouldn't be *this* stupid. For all intents and purposes it doesn't.)

  47. A day in the life by iminplaya · · Score: 2, Funny

    So, does Sir William know how many holes it takes to fill IE? -2 Stupid

    --
    What?
  48. ye olde catch 22 by ooby · · Score: 2, Funny

    While browsing the network at college, I discovered a folder with r/w permissions. So I placed in the folder a little "do not run this.exe" that made some autoexec.bat changes, and poorly so. It included recovery instructions and backed up the file.

    A few months later, my friend has trouble starting his computer. Guess who had to fix it...

  49. Re:But MS is "fixing" other issues... by sqlrob · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So MS is breaking more standards. Lovely.

  50. Re:Here it comes... by AbbyNormal · · Score: 2, Funny

    "..did you actually read the article??".

    If he did, it wouldn't be Slashdot.

    --
    Sig it.
  51. Ghandi in reverse? by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 2, Funny

    More and more I'm seeing comments that would have been modded Flamebait a few months ago getting +1 Funny ratings. Maybe it's Ghandi's old mantra in reverse?

    First we fight them,
    Then we laugh at them,
    Then we ignore them,
    Then they're gone.

  52. Interesting LinuxWorld quote... by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Insightful
    that I've adopted:

    "A web app that requires a single brand of browser is not a web app... it's a client/server app".

    1. Re:Interesting LinuxWorld quote... by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My point, which you seem to have missed, is that it can be made to work flawlessly in more than one browser. Or are you saying your employer is explicitly saying "Make this not work flawlessly in any other browser"?

  53. Re:Konqueror under linux is also vulnerble by boredMDer · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm running Konq 3.1.5 on Slack -current, and I'm not 'vulnerble' (sic).

  54. Work around for thos of us stuck with M$ IE... by PSaltyDS · · Score: 2, Informative

    I was trying the DEMO PAGE, and noticed a minor work-around. The article says to save the file to disk before believing what it claims to be, which is sound advice, but you don't have to get that far to see something is wrong. As soon as you click on the link a "File Download" dialog is presented asking what to do with it. If you click on Open, based on the fake file extension displayed... your're screwed. If you click on Save, the next dialog box shows the true file type in the "Save as type" box.

    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. - Geek's corollary to Clarke's law
  55. Trolling the AC Troll... by the_mad_poster · · Score: 2, Funny

    In some incidences it truly is cheaper to run Windows vs *nix.

    Yea... Windows is like the bubble boy of the computer world - the second it comes in contact with anything outside of a highly protected, closely monitored, totally sterilized area the shit hits the fan.. but as long as it stays in its bubble and no disks, network connections, or phone lines ever touch it... hey - TCO is great.

    ...shut you out of a lot of opportunities in the future.

    You ain't kiddin'! Hell, my company is, at this very minute, looking for some MCSE-holding kissass morons to tell the upper management folks that we need to upgrade to Windows 2003 and XP. I never really understood why we need to hire kissass morons to come to the conclusion the management has already come to.. but I guess that's just because I don't understand the intracacies of management and Windows system admin...

    Maybe you should apply?

    --
    Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
    1. Re:Trolling the AC Troll... by eyegone · · Score: 2, Funny


      Hell, my company is, at this very minute, looking for some MCSE-holding kissass morons to tell the upper management folks that we need to upgrade to Windows 2003 and XP. I never really understood why we need to hire kissass morons to come to the conclusion the management has already come to.

      Those "kissass morons" are properly referred to as consultants.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  56. Oh, it'll all blow over... by ch-chuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It always does. We've been thru dozens of these 'devestating' quality issues and the victims just queue up at Local Computer Store to buy another one. That's why they keep legions of hungry microsoftie out there to clean up after the latest worm de jour, meanwhile the gazillionair will be awarded a Nobel Peace prize or something.I mean, cheezus, it's only software - it's not like people are getting killed in poor quality cars or anything. Everybody knows you should backup important data anyway so just chill out and obey old your pc overlords.

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  57. Some major news org needs an article: by darkonc · · Score: 2, Funny
    Microsoft suggests customers stop surfing the net.

    In response to flaws recently exposed in it's software Microsoft has suggested that customers stop using hyperlinks -- the core feature of the World Wide Web. The bugs, which were exposed in the last few weeks, allow scammers on the net to make their website links to look like a legitimate site (e.g. Microsoft, Ebay or Visa), where they can then ask for identifying information, card numbers and passwords, or cause you to launch executable programs that Internet Explorer describes as more innocuous types (e.g. PDFs).

    Rather than immediately releasing a bug fix, Microsoft is now suggesting that users no longer click on web page hyper-links. Their suggested solution is that users manually type in any web address they want to visit in the menu bar.
    .....

    Other web browser providers (e.g. Mozilla) claim that their browsers are not susceptible to these bugs, and claim that users surfing the web with their browsers are not subject to these problems.

    --
    Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  58. Factory Browser by Cytlid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't a browser that comes with the computer, or comes with the operating system kinda like a radio that comes "stock" with a car? And we know what sort of quality those are...

    --
    FLR
  59. Original post by http-equiv to NT-BugTraq by Helevius · · Score: 2, Informative
    The original post by http-equiv is found on NT-BugTraq.

    Helevius

  60. one word about patches... by vladkrupin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We want to get patch deployment down from days or weeks to hours."

    Of course that'll solve all the problems! We patch a hole 1 hour after it's discovered (not like that ever happened) and then it takes three months (also overly optimistic estimate) for the average user to actually download a patch with the next service pack, if ever. The result? The end user is just as vulnerable as he has ever been. But we can now blame the end user for not patching their system in time, because the patch was available early on. The bottom line? The user feels like M$ software is as insecure as it's ever been, and rightfully so.

    You can say whatever you want about the advantage of releasing patches fast. It's great to release them fast. In fact, a lot of open source developers take pride in being able to do just that, and this is something worthy of admiration. But quick patching process is no replacement for code that is secure to start with!!! And while M$ can speed up their patch development, they can do nothing about the fact that their existing software sometimes closely resembles swiss cheeze - it's already out there, and it breaks often.

    --

    Jobs? Which jobs?
  61. Re:where's the damage? by canajin56 · · Score: 2, Informative

    The problem is that IE uses both the extention AND the mime type. It decides what to do when you click on it by looking at the MIME type. But it decides how to OPEN it by looking at the extention. So it sees "virus.exe" with a MIME type of text/html, and knows that it is supposed to automatically open html files when they are clicked on, so it downloads it. Once it downloads, it tries to open the file The routines for opening files are the same as the ones in Windows Explorer, so it sees ".exe" and executes it. The user is never prompted because IE is never setup to prompt every time you visit a new page, and Windows Explorer isn't set to prompt every time you tell it to run a program.

    --
    ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
  62. Re:Here it comes... by pjrc · · Score: 2, Informative
    Let's bash the shit out of MS.

    I'm the one who submitted the story that Timothy posted.

    Microsoft damn well deserves some bashing. They didn't fix the phishing bug in their monthly patch set, and the phishing bug was reported very close to the beginning of that monthly cycle, and only 1 week after it was discovered, scammers started making heavy use of it in their attempts to defraud people of banking details. So Microsoft had 3 weeks to witness the phishing bug being abused in the wild, and still they did not patch it almost a full month.

    This all comes on the heels of a bunch of PR Microsoft spewed not long ago, claiming a study (they paid for) found that Microsoft issues patches faster than Redhat.

    I call them a bunch of lying hypocrites who only care about money and not the security of their customers. You call me a Microsoft basher. You are right, I'm saying Microsoft sucks and the lie. I believe I am right too, they do suck and they do have little regard for honesty, as can plainly be seen.

    In fact, you can do that while installing the 35th sendmail patch this week. Or the 54th SSH.

    In fact, the last security patch for sendmail was on September 17, 2003. That's over 4 months ago. There have been zero sendmail security patches this week, not 35. The previous patch was released March 29th, 2003. Not the same week, but 5.5 months earlier.

    OpenSSH doesn't have the same web pages with patch info as Sendmail... so looking at Redhat's update history on OpenSSH, I see new RPMs published on the following dates: 17-Sep-2003, 16-Sep-2003, 04-Jul-2003, 14-Feb-2003. It's not clear if these are security updates or other less serious updates. But only once did two patches appear in the same week. On average, it's over 2 months between updates.... hardly 54 in one week.

    Now compare that the MSIE. Microsoft's customers complained that multiple patches were required every week, so they recently switched to a monthy patch schedule. But there was news coverage that shortly after the switch, they still had to break that schedule and release patches more frequently because of very critical security bugs discovered.

    And remember that Microsoft doesn't even bother to fix things like this phishing bug, which makes it easy for scammers to direct people to false banking login pages and have them appear to be the legitimate websites of the banks people trust! Contrast that lack of concern for customers getting ripped off against some of the openssh patches, which fix timing problems where the sub-milisecond delay changes could theoretically leak info if probed repetitively probed over a low-latency LAN.... but virtually impossible to attack over the internet, and no known exploits in use.

    It's pretty clear which software has a good security track record and which software has more holes that swiss cheese. It's quite clear who deserves to be bashed.

  63. It depends. by solios · · Score: 2, Interesting

    On the end user.

    I've done work for free for some people, and they're quite happy. They make me dinner or take me out for a few drinks or something.

    I've also done work for free for some people, and they're never happy- to the point of hassling me every time they see me because they need help with some piece of software (that has extensive documentation, installed), they did something I told them not to do and broke something, or, in general, are too thickheaded to learn for themselves and want me to do their thinking for them.

    I much prefer the former type of person to the latter. Of the seven field users I support (people whom I've given computers to over the years), five of them only contact me when something is seriously broken, and the other two can't even find the help key on the keyboard unless I come to their house and phyiscally show it to them. Multiple times.

    Then there's my dad. :D Fortunately, he still uses OS 9 and I can answer just about all of his questions from memory. The only time I've ever had to do serious tech support for him was when his preferences folder somehow got moved out of his system folder.... that was interesting.

    Family's obviously a different matter than friends- I've minimized the damage to my sanity by only supporting OS 9. I patently refuse to deal with Windows in any capacity (it took several people a very long time to realize this), I don't support linux (I tell people how to get answers the same way I get them- google, a notebook, and a printer), and everyone I know running OS X is a self-sufficient operator. :-)

    All in all, refusing to deal with Windows has saved me countless hours of free time (and work time!), and has even switched a couple of people over to Macintosh. Go figure.

  64. Don't get too lax with Mozilla/Firebird by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    To all you Mozilla users, don't think that you're safe simply because you use Mozilla. I just tried the demo with Firebird 0.7 and it essentially does the same thing as IE6. Click on the demo link on secunia's site and you get an "open/save as..." window. Sure it says that the default program type is "htmlfile (default)" and the file name shows the CLSID which should make you think if you are supposedly downloading a pdf, but let's face it, the average Joe isn't going to be thinking (or actually reading the file name). If you just go ahead and click "open," you get the same end result as if you had used IE (in fact IE opens if it's your default browser). Even if Firebird is your default it will still try opening the file as an html document. This isn't an IE flaw as much as a Windows flaw, so just switching browsers really won't save you.

    Your best bet is to THINK BEFORE YOU CLICK!!!!

  65. Re:But MS is "fixing" other issues... by typhoonius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just fucking great. Instead of actually fixing the problem, they just told RFC 2396 (which is based on the ten year-old RFC 1738 and officially endorsed by the HTTP standard) to fuck itself and called it a day. And in the meantime, they recommend that users not click any links at all.

    Just amazing that this is what we have to deal with.

  66. Look at Apache by shis-ka-bob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The best counter arguement to the 'but its only because MS has a bigger market share than your luser OS' is Apache. Apache is much more popular than IIS (as you can verify with a trip to netcraft), but SANS has more IIS incidents than Apache incidents. Both servers have vulnerabilities and sites can be defaced with either server. But IIS is the more vulnerable. Why is that?

    --
    Think global, act loco
    1. Re:Look at Apache by CaptainFrito · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your actually makes the point against M$. What half-wit puts something like IIS as a default on every machine, when it is acknowledged that these same people are still struggling with VCR clocks? Microsoft itself wants -- no, needs -- to be able to make your computer do things that benefit Microsoft. Others just exploit those holes or ones created as a consequence of those holes. The booty and control is too compelling for those hypergreedy megalomaniacs.

  67. the ultimate by Dave_bsr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This thread is mostly about how IE/win users are idiots, and what to do about it.

    I think in the end, we need a new system.

    In part, people are not perfect, they will make mistakes, and other people will exploit those mistakes.

    What we need is centralized administration. A few smart guys with ssh fixing computers for everyone on a paying list of subscribers. I think it could work.

    --


    Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
  68. Re:Anti-MS mods are at it again by txsable · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yep, but if you read the Microsoft KB article, you'll see that, as usual, they are using a full sheet of sheetrock to fix a pinhole. Instead of patching Internet Explorer 5.x and 6.x to show the full URL with the "@" sign in it, they're just removing the ability to have an http:// or https:// link with the @ completely. That's not a fix, it's a farce. If they were really concerned about what their customers need, they would simply filter the URL and remove any strange control characters before the @ sign and ALWAYS SHOW THE FULL URL.

    (Of course, I'm being completely obvious here to the SlashDot crowd...)

  69. Deployment *is* the hard part by kylef · · Score: 2, Insightful
    We patch a hole 1 hour after it's discovered (not like that ever happened) and then it takes three months (also overly optimistic estimate) for the average user to actually download a patch with the next service pack, if ever.

    You aren't even paying attention to what he's saying. Anderson is AGREEING with you. The Patch deployment he's referring to shrinking IS the time it takes "the average user to actually download a patch...." That time is what Microsoft is working to reduce, not the "time until a patch is released."

    If you look at recent exploit history, Anderson is exactly right. Blaster, Slammer, etc... All of the exploits came out AFTER the patch was released. The primary reason they were so destructive is that users did not patch, and the patch itself advertised the hole to the exploit writers like a green lighthouse on a clear night. I'm glad that MS is focusing on the right problem in that respect: user deployment of patches.

    But quick patching process is no replacement for code that is secure to start with!!!

    Of course not. But keep in mind that even the Linux kernel needs to be patched and updated! There have been two security holes in the 2.4.x kernels over the past 6 months. Each one required a new or patched kernel to fix. How many n00b linux users do you think actually did that?

    It's the same problem for both sides. Problems will be found in all software. Patches are absolutely necessary to fix those problems. The hard part is getting those patches deployed. If patches aren't deployed promptly, what was a simple coding error can easily become an enormously expensive nightmare.

  70. You are getting your exploits mixed up by RodeoBoy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That is the old namda eml file exploit, which has been fixed in IE and Outlook. This exploit is harder to fix. This has to do with Windows COM and that components contain a class id or guid that identifies what type of file it is. Also in this case it is an html executable or .hta file not an exe, IE can't run an exe as a component. It has nothing to do with the mime type.

    Of course you would get this from reading the article. Now how you got the high rating is the another issue. I guess it is true nobody here actually reads the article. Hell I'm going back to fark.