Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Audio/Video Conference with iChat and AIM

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the beginning-of-the-end-of-the-analog-phones? dept.

JHromadka writes "Apple and AOL released today new versions of their instant messaging software that allows audio and video conferencing between Mac iChat users and Windows AIM users. " Anyone else think we're nearing the end of the analog phone system?

94 of 353 comments (clear)

  1. Ya right by QuaZar666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't see standard POTS phones going away anytime soon as much as a I wish it would. People still use fax machines, impact printers, and dialup. Before POTS can go completly away we would first need to get rid of at least fax machines and dialup.

    1. Re:Ya right by GNUguy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Dilaup wont go away any time soon, I work for a small ISP who's nitch is the little country towns who can't get DSL or cable because their population make it not worthwhile.

      So I predict dialup will be around for at least another 5 years.

      -G

      --
      A man, a plan, a canal, panama
    2. Re:Ya right by The+Ancients · · Score: 2, Funny
      What's a 'fax' machine? Is that like an online dictionary?

      ..k

      --
      The Mothership
    3. Re:Ya right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      at least 5 years... that isn't a very long time. I think dialup will be around for another 15-20 years and that is based on the fact that a large part of the population is content with just dialing up and checking email and disconnecting.

      Your companies niche is those small towns... maybe in 5 years they will have access for DSL, but the DSL price isn't for everyone.

    4. Re:Ya right by Archfeld · · Score: 2, Informative

      difference in DSL and cable prices ? Where...same cost where I am, an arm and a leg, plus your first born, and both rising, like 15 % in the last year, GO BUSH GO, let's deregulate some more to save consumers money and drive competition.

      --
      errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
    5. Re:Ya right by nat5an · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just my two cents, but unless it works almost exactly like an ordinary telephone, people won't be interested in using it. That is to say it has to "just work." No booting up computers, configuring peripherals, setting a proxy server, opening a port in your firewall, getting someone's IP address, etc. A techie might be comfortable with doing that, and I could see this catching on in a corporate environment, but for Joe Homeuser, seems like a lot of hassle, at this point. That said, if it's not significantly more complicated than a cellphone, it could catch on within 10-20 years, if it's cheaper or a lot more useful.

      --
      Head down, go to sleep to the rhythm of the war drums...
  2. Re:no end to analog by rainman_bc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Didn't you learn ANYTHING watching the A-Team? I recall almost every third episode they hacked a landline with a phone tap :)

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  3. End of analog? by Godeke · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Didn't anyone read the "technologies that refuse to go away" article? Analog phones have so many advantages over digital technology that I find it hard to believe they will go away anytime soon.

    1. Ubiquity: not just in the US, but world wide. The analog phone network links many countries that will take a long time to bring enough bandwidth to make digital conversations useful. Even in the US, there are a *lot* of places where you can't get broadband. If you are doing video you *need* broadband. If you are doing voice, you *want* broadband for the lower latency.

    2. Reliability: with the exception of *major* disasters (which would bring any network down) the analog phone system just works. I keep one corded phone in the house because it works when the power goes out. (Handy, say, to call the electrician on.) My PC will last 15 minutes on battery backup: not what I want to rely on if I come home to a dark house. My local cable provider has "digital phone" service which has outage issues at least once a month, and sometimes weekly. My cell phone is likewise prone to sudden disconnects, but I put up with it for the sake of being mobile.

    3. Quality of Service: I have a few friends too cheap to pay for long distance who like to voice chat over Yahoo and other services. It works. Kinda. Except when it doesn't, and drops the connection, or crashes or makes my sound card cry. But even when it works, it sounds bad.

    That isn't to say these are insurmountable problems. The analog phone network is mostly digital at it's core, so it isn't a matter of technology, per se. Instead, it is the attempt to shoehorn voice over IP, and particularly over the laggy, drop prone and quirky public Internet. Voice is almost there, if you have good broadband. Video is a joke still: it reminds me of Internet radio about 4 years ago, mostly a novelty. It is going to take a lot of work at the infrastructure layer to make digital VOIP and video a common occurrence that is relied upon, instead of as a novelty, or in applications where people put the infrastructure in place themselves (tele-medicine, big companies with video conferencing between T1 connected locations, etc).

    --
    Sig under construction since 1998.
    1. Re:End of analog? by sockit2me9000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Points two and three are no longer necessarily true. The analogue phone network is the single most complex network on the face of the earth. The Internet is evolving and will most likely overtake the POTS but today the intricacy of the phone network is boggling. Think about it: You can pick up a phone anywhere in the world and call anyone else anywhere and have a near real time conversation. And this was achieved over half a century ago! The problem today is that the older people who originally designed and implemented these systems are now almost all retired and left in its place are those people who are now more technicians than designers and don't understand the intricacies of the network. And the network is overloaded now, in a way that can cause failures due to very tiny and subtle problems. As more and more of these old guards are forced into retirement--the ones that understood both the scale and the complexity and had been a part of the jury-rigging of the structure as it began to balloon-- I think we're going to see a huge drop in the dependancy of the phone service, both through reliability and quality of service in the near future. With our current rate of growth I see it happening within the decade. And this is when digital/internet phone will just be becoming viable. I think the phone companies have a lot to worry about right now.

    2. Re:End of analog? by edwdig · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To support your theory, here's a story I heard from my Uncle, who retired from Verizon about a year or two ago. He worked there for over twenty years. I forget the original company he started working for, but he ended up in Verizon after several mergers.

      In the past, management positions were awarded to people who worked their way up through the ranks. That meant they understood how the phone networks worked, and in a crises, knew how to fix the problems.

      Now, people are hired straight into management positions. When there's a crisis, they don't know what to do. They give orders which don't help the problem. The people below them ignore their orders and do what needs to be done. In the end, the problem gets solved and the management is unaware of why it really got solved.

    3. Re:End of analog? by pyros · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Are you smoking crack? Do yo not realise that the quality wireless networks in the Eastern hemisphere because they don't have the same ubiquitous, affordable, reliable PSTN that we enjoy here? See, the U.S. spent load of time and money investing in public infrastructure like the PSTN, and cable networks, and highway systems. In turn, we created a situation where the services are so good, we're having trouble progressing past them. In regions where this infrastructure wasn't created, you see greater broadband penetration than we do. You see better wireless phone networks than we get.

  4. AOL Users by nick_davison · · Score: 2, Funny

    Anyone else think we're nearing the end of the analog phone system?

    No. This market segment probably never used telephones anyway. AOL users just drooled in bland confusion at their complicated number pads, while Mac users couldn't understand why the peripheral had more than one button.

  5. phones by flynt · · Score: 4, Funny

    Anyone else think we're nearing the end of the analog phone system?

    If I remember Taco, you're still on dial-up, so we better not be nearing the end, for your sake.

    1. Re:phones by The+Ancients · · Score: 2, Funny
      If I remember Taco, you're still on dial-up, so we better not be nearing the end, for your sake.

      What about for our sake?

      ..k

      --
      The Mothership
  6. Cell Phones ? by rhino_badlands · · Score: 5, Insightful

    i think cell phones already broke that barrier long long ago, most college kids now have a cell phone rather then getting a phone for their dorm or house/apartment. And i also know that alot of other people are doing this aswell for home and buisness.

    --
    - MOSKIE
    1. Re:Cell Phones ? by Skye16 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Kind of interesting that I went the exact opposite route. I was sick of carrying the little bastard around, sick of being tethered to it, sick of having to check my voice mail every five minutes or else get the inquisition from family members for failing to respond to their call. I'm not much of a fan of the phone, and the fact that I had no excuse to leave it behind bothered me even more. I'll stick with my land line, thanks, but I'd still prefer not to use it unless there's ane emergency.

    2. Re:Cell Phones ? by davidhan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In countries that don't have a high percentage of land line penetration, wireless comm often expand at a faster rate and overtake land lines. Its easier and cheaper to roll out cell networks than it is to lay cable to everyone house.

  7. 911? by Beatbyte · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nope. Why?

    Guy A : "OMG I just cut off my leg! Call 911!"
    Guy B : "Can't man the latest Windows worm is destroying the 'net"
    Guy A : "Oh ok I'll wait.

    --
    Get paid to code OSS
    1. Re:911? by sryx · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well if you put Windows in the mix it might sound like this.

      Guy A: "OMG I just cut off my leg! Call 911!"
      Guy B: "Ok ok one sec, I got to boot up Windows!"
      Guy A: "Oh the pain the pain!!!"
      Guy B: "Man chill out, Windows is still booting, because I'm to cheap to own a land line or a cell phone I'm also too cheap to get a fast computer"
      Guy A: "I think I can see a light down a dark tunnel"
      Guy B: "Ok Windows is up, now lets see..."
      Clippy: "I noticed you are bleading to death, would you like help?"
      Guy A: "I'm so sorry I never gave enough to the poor, God, please forgive me, my life has been meaningless, I just want to know you before I die"
      Guy B: "Woah, slow down there Guy A, I'm trying to call 911, Just need to get Clippy to leave me alone"
      Clippy: "I noticed you are trying to atone for you sins before you blead to death, would you like help?"
      Guy B: "Well, would you like help with your atonment?"
      Guy A:...
      Guy B: "Crap, I need a faster PC"
      Clippy: "I noticed that you have a dead friend in your living room, would you like me to despose of the body?"

      -Jason

    2. Re:911? by Beatbyte · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't forget you MUST activate your copy of MS-Voip otherwise you can just sit there and watch him die.

      --
      Get paid to code OSS
    3. Re:911? by pyros · · Score: 2, Funny

      You got it all wrong.

      Guy A : "OMG I just cut off my leg! Call 911 !"
      Guy B : "No you didn't! It's just a flesh wound."

  8. Re:no end to analog by viking099 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That and most people don't like the idea of having to look at whoever they're talking to, or have who they're talking to looking at them.

    Who here even stays seated the entire time they're on the phone anyway? Cordless phones were a huge hit for a reason; it lets people do other things when they're on the phone, although that can be a bad thing (like when you're talking to someone and you realize they're using the bathroom) Yeah. Video phones won't be very useful outside of business transactions.

  9. Not a chance by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Informative

    Anyone else think we're nearing the end of the analog phone system?

    Not anytime soon, as long as (1) IP-based applications remain best-effort solutions, (2) IP stuff remain significantly more insecure than phone connections (that's quite a low standard to achieve, but still) and (3) any relevant part of the rest of the world doesn't want to switch to VoIP (i.e. everybody who doesn't enjoy the standard of living found in the 5-10 most developed countries in the world).

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  10. Not likely the end... ever. by reiggin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Remember that very recent article on here about technologies that refuse to die? 100 years from now, analog phones will be on that list. iChat/AIM is great but my mother will never use it. Same can be said for VoIP.

    1. Re:Not likely the end... ever. by MacFury · · Score: 3, Funny
      about technologies that refuse to die? 100 years from now, analog phones will be on that list. iChat/AIM is great but my mother will never use it

      Is your mother likely to be around in 100 years?

    2. Re:Not likely the end... ever. by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Insightful

      iChat/AIM is great but my mother will never use it. Same can be said for VoIP.

      I say bull.

      There are 3 things that count with new technologies : (1) the technology, (2) packaging, (3) packaging. If you package VoIP in the form of a telephone set that plugs into the wall, doesn't take a genius to configure and provides the same sort of service (no choppiness, somewhat okay phone quality, and the ability to dial a number), your mom will use it.

      The best example is the Tivo : it's 20+ years people have been able to record shows at predefined times with VHS recorders, even sometimes using barcodes printed in TV guides so you don't have to program your VCR yourself. Yet that sort of application is only taking off since Tivo and ReplayTV, because they realized they should take the basic idea and turn it into a box that connects onto some wall socket, asks your zip code to configure itself, dials, do everything for you, and then present you with menus and things that a 6 year old can understand. But in the end, Tivo boxes are VCRs on steroid. The success comes from the packaging.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  11. At least AOL is supporting us.... by LnxAddct · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If your running Linux and go to their site you'll see that they have a linux version and they keep it updated:) Wonder if it has these new features.
    Regards,
    Steve

    1. Re:At least AOL is supporting us.... by reiggin · · Score: 4, Informative

      It doesn't. AIM for Linux is like using AIM for Windows 95. It kinda sucks. GAIM is much better, IMHO. There are others out there, too. It'd be interesting to know if any of the OSS guys plan on rolling these video chat features into their clients, though.

    2. Re:At least AOL is supporting us.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Linux version has never supported audio/video. I would like to think that they would start supporting us now, but I'm not getting my hopes up. About the only comprable tool for this on Linux which will allow us to at least have video chat with Windows users is Gnomemeeting.

  12. Apple release iChat for Windows, world goes blind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't want to see half of the people I chat with... My poor world depends on coolgrl973 being the cute one in that picture!

  13. "...end of the analog phone system?" by Bradee-oh! · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not quite yet. The analog phone system will persist until there is a replacement that is not only superior in cost and flexibility but also in ease of use. I can pick up my phone and dial a friend's number and be connected within seconds. If my computer is off or I am not logged into AIM, the process of connecting with them becomes slower and more complicated than dialing their digits.

    --
    "This is Zombo Com, and welcome to you who have come to Zombo Com" - www.zombo.com
  14. I never understood by CompWerks · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Why we need to see the person on the other end of the line unless they were giving a presentation or something.

    Other then that it's quite useless unless you are going to make faces at each other or possibly have cyber-sex but then again we're talking about the /. crowd.

    --
    If you can read this sig - the bitch fell off.
    1. Re:I never understood by CompWerks · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I see denying video as more of a problem then enabling it. Something tells me that people will get offended if you do not enable video access for them.

      --
      If you can read this sig - the bitch fell off.
    2. Re:I never understood by Clod9 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You've never lived for a few months with your fiancee on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, have you?
      And now that we're married, she only sees her family once a year and in pictures.
      We'd pay good money for an easy videoconferencing solution.

    3. Re:I never understood by redJag · · Score: 2, Informative

      Body language. Sarcasm, jokes, lies, tones, undertones. Communication!? Text cannot replace voice and body language, I'm sorry.

  15. gaim by (startx) · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm glad to see that I can finally video chat with my windows using friends too. Anyone have an estimate on how long it'll take the gaim folks to impliment this addition so EVERYONE can videoconfrence?

    1. Re:gaim by Echnin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think what he means is that persons using any of the three most used operating systems will be able to communicate over one network.

      --
      Lalala
  16. Re:no end to analog by Mod+Me+God · · Score: 3, Interesting

    (Analog direct-connection) land lines are not very secure - IMHO it is less secure than splitting into packets sent different ways around the world - the analog line could be tapped anywhere on the journey, but the digital packets are only interceptable (meaningfully) at the terminal-to-exchange space.

    Now quantum security is real security.

    --
    --

    FreeNET user? Comfortable with the adverse selection?
  17. end of POTS? not yet.. by epiphani · · Score: 4, Interesting

    i picked up a USB headset yesterday for my 11 year old sister, because a bunch of her friends have webcams and headsets. She immediately tried it out with her friends. From what I saw, the quality is still sketchy.

    Until they get these messenger/aim/ichat systems up to par with VOIP or other standards, people will still use the telephone.

    And, while slightly offtopic - why is it that we have so many different IM networks out there? Why cant we just have a simple single protocol allowing each of the different clients to interoperate. I'm stuck using trillian, lacking half the features of all the others, because i dont feel like running four (aim,icq,msn,yahoo) damn messenger clients.

    --
    .
  18. Long live analog by savagedome · · Score: 4, Funny

    we're nearing the end of the analog phone system?

    You can't slam down one of those messsage clients. Its more satisfying to slam down the phone after you get mad at someone !

    --


    Free XBox, PS2
    1. Re:Long live analog by caller_number_six · · Score: 2, Funny

      more satisfying to slam down the phone after you get mad at someone !

      For the same reason, I can only use "flip" cell phones. Before I got my first one, the only way to hang up on anybody (with any degree of satisfaction) was to throw my phone across the cab of my truck at the end of each conversation.

      Actually, that system works fine in the winter, when the windows are rolled up, but...

  19. Re:Apple release iChat for Windows, world goes bli by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't want to see half of the people I chat with...

    Oh come on, I bet you'd really like to see the lower half, you dirty thing you...

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  20. No audio by ciryon · · Score: 2, Informative

    I just tried it and it doesn't seem to support audio. Only video is also mentioned at Apple's website.

    Would be great if they implemented audio chat also, but hey this is just a beta.

    Ciryon

    1. Re:No audio by MikeXpop · · Score: 3, Informative

      On windows aim, if both people have microphones plugged in, you can click the talk button, and you'll connect with voice. This has been around in aim longer than iChat has existed. I don't have a windows box/webcam to try this on, but perhaps you have to enable talk and video at the same time for it to work?

      --
      Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
    2. Re:No audio by mbbac · · Score: 3, Informative

      iChat AV has supported simulaneous audio/video chat and just audio chat for about a year now. iChat AV 2.1 beta is just the first version to work with Windows clients now that AOL has co-opted Apple's technology for AOL IM 5.5.

      --

      mbbac

  21. ICQ next? by F.+Mephit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So then the last major compatibility gap to bridge will be to get a version of ICQ that's compatible with those two (and vice versa)? Or better yet, Trillian?

    1. Re:ICQ next? by TheWickedKingJeremy · · Score: 4, Funny

      People still use ICQ? Ever since Mirabilis was bought out by AOL, ICQ has been an overbloated piece of IM software with entirely too many useless features. It basically turned into AIM on crack.

      Yeah but, I have a really low number...

      --

      my religion lies somewhere between buddhism and super monkey ball - pamphlet?
  22. NAT by phreak03 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As long as everyone is NAT'ed and firewalled, P2P based technology that requires dirrect comunication will be limited to the geeks (now at the moment though, anyone not running some form of NAT firewall on a DSL or cable line is a idiot) But the technoidiots don't know how to port forward so these technologies will not work At my university we all have our own IP's but All incomeing ports are blocked.........

    --
    come comment on the madness at http://slashdot.org/~phreak03/journal/
    1. Re:NAT by carabela · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Have you seen Skype ?
      From their website:

      "Skype is the next phenomenon from the people who brought you KaZaA. Just like KaZaA, Skype uses P2P (peer-to-peer) technology to connect you to other users - not to share files this time, but to talk and chat with your friends."

      Further on: "Works with all firewall, NAT and routers - nothing to configure!"

      --

      The more you know, the less you need. [Admin added: from me.]
    2. Re:NAT by All+Names+Have+Been · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except that this technology already works very well with most home NAT and firewall boxes. I've sucessfully used iChat AV from my home (using NAT on an old Linksys 802.11b router) to the in-laws, also behind a linksys broadband router of some sort and using NAT. Worked first time, no configuration.

      This is true for most home hardware nowadays. Perhaps you should go read the specs for how iChat AV works? They are publically available.

  23. iSight on a PC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So can an iSight be used with the AOL software on a Windows PC?

    1. Re:iSight on a PC? by mrbrown1602 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nope. Its still Mac only. The new AIM client just provides support for Windows-compatible webcams.

    2. Re:iSight on a PC? by elohim · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can use iSight with Windows just fine. "Knight explained that Apple and AOL were able to bridge the two online communities by incorporating standards-based technology in their respective software applications. Because the iSight is also a standards-based camera, Knight said that AIM users should be able to use it as their video device if they want to -- he added that Windows users would also need an external microphone or another source of audio if they were using the iSight on a Windows PC, unlike their Mac counterparts." http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/02/05/ich ataim/index.php?redirect=1075980632000

  24. Not a troll by jeffkjo1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm not trolling, I'm asking a serious question.

    I use the official AOL version of AIM in Linux (for reasons I won't get into.) They haven't released an update for the linux client in nearly 2 years. When can we expect to see a new client for linux?

  25. Re:no end to analog by jd142 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And video phones have been around (or at least technology capable of producing them) for decades. It's rare that someone wants to actually see who their talking to when they use the phone. No more answering the phone right out of the shower, for a start. Well, unless you're in to that. And certainly no phones while driving.

    And this doesn't even begin to address the bandwidth issues for the many, many people who are still on dialup.

  26. Analog and Natural Disasters by Ride-My-Rocket · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually, one of the main reasons for keeping an analog line is in case of natural disasters. I was living at 42nd St & 11th Ave in Manhattan on September 11, 2001 -- all of my friends who were in the city that day ended up at my place, since there was no reasonable way to get back to their respective boroughs. And while they were there, everybody was able to use our landline to make phone calls and let their families know they were OK; meanwhile, all of our cellphones were useful only as paperweighs, as the networks were thoroughly saturated with traffic.

    1. Re:Analog and Natural Disasters by jkabbe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And then there was the blackout last summer where my analog phone was a paperweight but my cell phone kept on going (although the signal got pretty week as towers started going down).

    2. Re:Analog and Natural Disasters by CrazyTalk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Interesting. I had the opposite experience on 9/11 (I don't live in NYC, btw). My landline was useless, all lines were busy, but I could use my cell phone as well as AIM (via DSL) to communicate with friends in New York.

    3. Re:Analog and Natural Disasters by theEd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Truthfully it's only analog to your local central office or nearby crossbox.

      Now here's a disaster story....

      Back in 1990 an F5 tornado hit a town southwest of Chicago and the "big" problem with the phones was that relatives and friends overloaded the system calling to see "are you ok?".

      Better yet, a few days later an employee of the phone company was driving through the devistated town and saw a house with the front completely ripped of, like a doll house. Furniture and various personal items were all over the front yard. In the middle of the yard was a man, talking on the phone.

      --
      "And now you shall learn the secret of boot to the head"
    4. Re:Analog and Natural Disasters by iantri · · Score: 2, Informative
      I suspect you should get a better analog phone then; Phones work (or at least should work) regardless of whether or not there is electricity or not..

      Cordless phones will not (for obvious reasons). Poorly-designed phones with fancy features like Call Display/ID will not work at all.. the better designed ones will continue to do basic telephone functions.

      But a simple, basic phone will always work -- they don't even plug into the wall.

      Really, the only electricity needed for a phone is what's provided down the line.. (I believe) 48V to drive the bell/electronic ringer, and some small amount to power the speaker on the other end..

    5. Re:Analog and Natural Disasters by unother · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Bollocks.

      My cell phone was useful again from 2PM onward, and I had Sprint at the time (their main tower was on WTC 1, so service got kind of spotty for a while after). Worked in DUMBO (work) and the E. Vill (home).

      I can only imagine the AT&T and Verizon users had even less probelms than I did.

    6. Re:Analog and Natural Disasters by Detritus · · Score: 2, Informative

      The telephone company has huge batteries, suitable for powering submarines, that provide power to their own equipment and the subscriber's telephone. If you measure a phone line with a multimeter, you should see about -48V on the line. This is all you need to power a standard telephone. The problem is that many of the telephones being sold today will not work without an AC adaptor. The FCC should make the manufacturers put large "Will not work during a power failure!" stickers on these telephones.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    7. Re:Analog and Natural Disasters by Detritus · · Score: 2, Informative
      You should file a formal complaint with the FCC and Michigan's Public Utility Commission. There is no excuse for a telephone system that can't keep running during a blackout.

      In a way, it doesn't surprise me, although it is sad. The ex-Bell telephone companies have been dumping experienced employees and cutting corners for decades. Reliability costs money, and the telephone companies are run by bean-counters, not engineers. Like the railroads and steel companies, they are letting their core business deteriorate, investing the profits in non-regulated businesses that are more attractive.

      If you want reliable, universal and affordable telephone service, you have to be willing to apply political pressure to your state government and its utility regulators. They are the ones who can force the telephone company to live up to its service obligations.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  27. Deaf People by iteratix · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I see some comments here saying that video-as-phone won't be useful. I beg to differ.

    I'm deaf; and along with that comes the inability to use voice phones. Video phones, either through dedicated lines or on the computer, are a Godsend to people like us. We've been waiting a long time for this.

    Being able to sign to a loved one or a friend, instead of using kludgy relay systems like this or others. In fact, there's a company called Sorenson (yes of the codec fame) that has a set-top box for televisions that allows a Deaf person to connect to either (1) any other set-top box or (2) the relay service or (3) another webcam -- all for video chat purposes.

    For those that are wondering, by "Relay" I refer to the act of me typing to a person (paid by the government) that voices my message to an person at the other end of a phone number, and types back to me what that person says. Nifty but very very slow and time-consuming.

    Before you knock a new technology (ew, I don't want to see Daddy on the toilet) or say its only for business purposes, think about it.

  28. AOL and video by hey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wasn't there a ruling that said AOL would need to allow other IM systems to connect once they got video going.
    Or did they slime out of that?

    Why can we just all go Jabber.

    1. Re:AOL and video by TALlama · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, they were, until last August. They key here is that AOL couldn't offer this kind of stuff until "it could prove that it was no longer the dominant player in free, public IM, or unless it opened its systems to interoperate with competitors." That 'or' gets them the leeway they need, along with the newer, more business-friendly (read: Republican) FCC board. They can probably show that they're no longer the dominant player by quoting Microsoft's own Messenger numbers back at them, which probably includes every XP installation out there as a user.

      --

      - The Amazina Llama

  29. Re:end of POTS? not yet.. by daeley · · Score: 2, Informative

    (aim,icq,msn,yahoo)

    While I'm not sure about other platforms' options, if you're on Mac OS X, Fire is an excellent multi-protocol client, covering AIM, ICQ, Jabber, MSN, Yahoo, and irc in one package.

    --
    I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
  30. niche uses in the future by bigmo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Analog will certainly not go away, but it's usefulness will be kept to certain areas such as where the relative security of a switched circuit (to the extent that those actually exist any more) is imortant. Also don't forget that most people in the world don't own computers or have connections capable of audio/video conferencing.

    However, for small businesses, this is a great thing. I'd just like to see a system where linux users could a/v chat with windows/mac users without the other users having to be gurus. I've tried getting some people with home offices to work with me via a/v conferencing, but most of them find it excruciatingly difficult to install a plugin to their browser, much less set up an h323 application.

    I'd like to hear from anyone successfully doing this with anyone other than another geek.

  31. When all you have is a hammer? by slykens · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Seems like people love to talk about convergence and eliminating the "old" system. Convergence is nice but why would I have a $600 PC everywhere in my house that I might want to use a phone? I can buy a cheapo Princess phone for $10 these days and it takes up a lot less room.

    What people sometimes miss is that most of the public just wants a phone that works when it is supposed to. An example is ATT Wireless' GSM network. High speed data and seamless international roaming is nice but coverage is horrible in many areas thus all the bells and whistles are wasted on people in areas where the GSM deployment is botched. ATT is losing a lot of GSM customers to other networks like Verizon or Nextel because their networks provide better coverage. (Yes in the case of Verizon they have nice wireless data goodies too)

    IMO, mobile telephones will replace regular household phones in much larger numbers than PCs replacing phones ever will. Further, specialty devices like D-Link's video "phone" that can be connected to the TV (larger display) may be more popular with non-geeks who just want a computer for word processing and browsing the intarweb.

  32. Re:hmmm.... by mofu · · Score: 3, Informative

    From the Apple iChat "iChat AV uses patented anamorphic resizing techniques so that the video of the person you're chatting with fills the entire screen without distortion"

  33. Price? What price? by Onan · · Score: 2, Informative

    How exactly do you propose that they "lower" the price to $99 from "free with the OS"?

    1. Re:Price? What price? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ah, right, the iSight. (Yeah, I hate the bloody iName thing too.)

      The iSight seems basically like the iPod: it's just about the most expensive offering in its niche, but it gets enough small things right that many people find it to be worthwhile.

      I've purchased three of them, and I'm happier with them than any of the previous camera I'd owned, which go back through the original QuickCam.

    2. Re:Price? What price? by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You've got it wrong - that iChat camera (iSight) is actually REALLY NICE and not that bad a deal. It really does outperform existing firewire webcams quite handily for picture and sound, the industrial design is LEAGUES better, and the price reasonable. I currently use a firewire equpped Sony camcorder for my iChat needs, but having demo'd the iSight, I may just buy one. Really impressive product IMHO.

      --
      That was classic intercourse!
  34. Long way away before the end of analog by saha · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I don't think I'm going to stop using the regular phone lines. In fact I'm going to insist that we still have it.

    What makes me nervous is when our network guys talk about IP telephony and the great advantages of IP based communications. I don't deny the features that they tout are attractive. i.e. Ability to take your phone anywhere on campus, integration of email, voicemail ...etc.

    But my biggest concern would be realiability. My traditional analog office phone didn't stop working when My.Doom or Slammer worms/viruses are choking our IP based networks. When there was a blackout throughout the eastern seaboard region last fall, my analog phone was still working.

    As for the news that iChatAV will now talk to PCs, I did forward it to our chairman this morning. We've been interested in distance learning using iChatAV a few months back and one of the biggest concerns was that it ONLY worked on the Mac OS platform. Now that concern has been addressed and we plan to continue to explore this new tool as a cost effective way to promote distance learning/tele-teaching.

    There are other professional multi-cast video products we will be evaluating as well and here are the recommendations from our university Apple rep. (note: iChatAV is for point-to-point communtications)
    -Diganta

    The products I am aware of are Marratech Pro[1], Pixion[2] the other solution I am aware of is a one to many with feedback - caststream[3]. You should take a look at caststream & marratech if you haven't already. Especially join a professional presentation to see capabilities.

    At Apple I have been attending a number of conferences that are utilizing Marratech. This works incredibly well over the public internet and yet allows for 128bit encryption end to end for all video/audio/chat. I have been using it and am very impressed. Additionally I use and love CastStream for presentations (one to many). Joe Bishop is a good contact for information on Marratech - bishop@mac.com - he worked for Apple and now is at Marratech

    -John"

    [1] http://www.marratech.com/
    [2] http://www.pixion.com/
    [2] http://www.caststream.com/

  35. Re:no end to analog by Mateito · · Score: 2, Funny

    Didn't you learn ANYTHING watching the A-Team? I recall almost every third episode they hacked a landline with a phone tap :)

    No. I learnt everything from McGuyver. I recall that in almost every third episode he escaped from an otherwise impossible position usinging a bathroom tap.*

    *along with two rubber bands, half a dozen paddle pop sticks and a pair of old bedsheets that suprisingly were never furnished with interesting stains.

    --
    Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
  36. No. by El · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If videoconferencing is so great, why is it that every time I see Netmeeting used for Application Sharing and/or video, business is still using a speakerphone for audio? Could it have something to do with the internet introducing drop out and up to 2 second delays in audio? For real-time communication, bringing up a dedicated virtual circuit really does have some advantages over using a packet-switched network, especially for audio. Now, if we actually had the infrastructure in place throughout the entire internet to reserve end-to-end bandwidth (e.g. RSVP) and ensure reliable, timely delivery, we could effectively have virtual circuits over the Internet -- with a corresponing increase in cost for the higher Quality Of Service.

    --

    "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  37. from the beginning-of-the-end-of-the-analog-phones by H8X55 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anyone else think we're nearing the end of the analog phone system?

    Because of Audio/Video Conference with iChat and AIM? As they say in Chinatown, "Nickel preeze!". Instant Messeging and Web chats are great, for back and forth conversation, but have you ever tried to tell a joke or story? Forever long.

    Face to face (or screen to screen) video conferencing is still grainy at best for most consumer grade products availble.

    Cell phones are great for portabilty and catching me on the go, but if someone calls my cell when i'm in the office or at home, i always call 'em back on a land line. It sounds better, and i still don't have "unlimited" minutes on my cell plan. Too damn expensive. I have friends out in the sticks that get zero or minimal cell reception out in BFE.

    Increased VoIP saturation might help bring down POTS, but you've still got reliabilty issues. My land line goes down once or twice every three to five years, usually as a result of some type of natural disaster, but my power goes off every couple months. No power, no DSL modem, no router, no VoIP phone. What if you need to call the power company or 911?

    Nope, sorry folks, POTS is here to stay, maybe not forever, but it's not going anywhere in the next ten years.

  38. Cell phones are less reliable than analog by El · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Immediately after the Loma Prieta earthquake, you couldn't make a cell call anywhere near San Francisco. Why? Because the wireless companies equipment was programmed to give up after 30 seconds if it didn't get a dial tone, while the phones where so overloaded that it was taking over a minute to get a dial tone on a land line. In a simular fashion, VoIP simply has a lot more potential points of failure than POTS.

    --

    "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  39. ich trage nicht hosen by mac+os+ken · · Score: 5, Funny

    Every since this fancy schmancy video iChat came out I've had to wear a shirt when talking to my buddies who absolutely insist on video chat. Now that the AIM/Windows masses will come up to speed in the next few months I'll have to wear a shirt continuously. At least I can still have the freed of a Sportscenter broadcaster and not wear pants.

    --
    .deviatefromtheabsolute.
    1. Re:ich trage nicht hosen by rajpaul · · Score: 2, Funny

      Who says you have to wear a shirt? If they don't like it, they'll stop insisting on Video. :-)

      If they do like it, well, I'll let you take it from there.

  40. Re:end of POTS? not yet.. by liquidsin · · Score: 3, Funny

    The quality's not sketchy, it's just misconfigured. Go ahead and send me the AIM screen names of these 11 y/o girls with webcams and I'll try to help them fix it...

    --
    do not read this line twice.
  41. Re:One Way Video? by dulinor · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wow, that's just flat-out untrue.

    If both iChat users are using iChat AV (the software, not the iChat delivered with Jaguar) you can do one-way video chat if the other machine is missing a camera. I do this all the time (ok, just to test and go "hey this is cool" but it does work)

    No idea if AOL will support that on PC, but it is a feature of the iChat AV network.

  42. Missing Users by rf600r · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Too bad that a majority of my friends who use AIM won't show up as online in iChat. Fire up any other AIM client and there they are. I have seen many others who have this same problem, yet have uncovered no solution. :-/

  43. Economic Reason for Losing POTS by WolfPup · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't think that the analog phone system will go away anytime soon since there really needs to be an economic reason for the system to go away. Once the system no longer is profitable for the phone companies (since maintenance and upgrades are expensive) they will stop supporting it, unless the government steps in and subsidizes it enough for them to keep providing the service.

    If another technology comes about that supplants the analog phone base then the utility companies will probably switch to that technology. The POTS is still compelling because you can pretty much attach a cheap ($5 dollar phone) to a land line and pay for a cheap service. There are other advantages as others have pointed out that the other technologies have not overcome such as availability during a power outage, emergency services, and almost instant availability.

    Until the level of service can match most POTS at this point and be profitable at about the same level, no other technology will probably supplant it.

    --

    -- Wolfpup

    "A man whose circumstances went beyond his control." -- Styx

  44. Re:no end to analog by diablobynight · · Score: 2, Funny

    Also it's hard to look at Scully porn right down the hallway from your parents bedroom

    --
    Anonymous Cowards - Oh God, How I hate you
  45. iChat will become bigger than ever. by EvilStein · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why?

    Dude, it was on Dr. Phil not too long ago. Millions of Oprah watching Dr. Phil fanatics will go "Oh, WOW!" and order themselves an iMac. I have a relative that called me and asked me about it after seeing Dr. Phil talk to that "Dr. Phil Family" using an iSight.

    Product placement really is an amazing thing.

  46. Yeah, well by appleLaserWriter · · Score: 2, Funny

    Nothing can stop my TCP/IP over Carrier Pigeons!

    1. Re:Yeah, well by cmstremi · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nothing can stop my TCP/IP over Carrier Pigeons!

      'cept a hungry kitty cat.

  47. Re:end of POTS? not yet.. by HeghmoH · · Score: 2, Informative

    iChat does better than phone quality audio with 30kbps. It does pretty reasonable video quality (obviously not broadcast quality or anything, but still very nice) with a 400MHz G4 and an extra 100kbps on top of that.

    --
    Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
  48. NITPICK - POTS != analog by wowbagger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Plain Old Telephone System is not analog, save the "last mile" to your house. As soon as you hit the line card, you are a 8 kSample/sec 8 bit/sample digital data stream.

    What you MEANT to say was, "How long until the end of the circuit-switched network is replaced by a packet-switched network."

    And when you start throwing Quality-Of-Service guarantees, bandwidth guarantees, and everything else to make a packet-switched network have the level of performance and reliability that the circuit-switched network has, guess what - you've just created a circuit-switched network!

    --
    www.eFax.com are spammers
  49. Great.....but what about H.323 by C.+Mattix · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does anyone know of a H.323 solution that works on Mac? We use Polycom hardware to communicate for a variety of reasons. The only bad thing is that they are windows only.

  50. webcam between win and mac is old news by bkaddy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Earth scientists have used squidcam to communicate between windows and mac for some time now, although it isn't based on an existing instant messaging service. Squidcam also allows for multiple connections at once, something iChatAV/AIM cannot. Read this review on web-cams.

  51. Much better frame rate than you might think. by zerocircle · · Score: 4, Informative
    Have you ever used a video phone?

    good luck signing asl at a framerate of 4 fps

    Have you ever used iChat AV?

    I tried it for the first time a couple of nights ago. FireWired my Sony Digital-8 video camera to my TiBook 667 running Panther. iChat recognized the camera with no configuration and immediately offered a video-chat button for a friend in my AIM buddy list -- he has a Power Mac G4 and an iSight.

    Talked for an hour with a constant two-way frame rate of 15fps over a cable modem / sub-optimal AirPort signal. Plenty good for visual conversation.

    The iChat interface is great, too.

  52. Retransmitting TV Shows via iChat and AIM by WiseWeasel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is excellent news. I've been retransmitting live TV shows off my satellite TV subscription trough iChat with all my (no extended cable or satellite having) Mac friends using an analogue video to DV bridge box since iChat became available. Now, I will finally be able to share shows with my Windows using buddies as well. Quality has been surprisingly good, with shows perfectly watchable over my 256kbit upstream cable connection, and the recipient's similar cable connection. Now, even those poor souls who don't get Comedy Central can just get their Daily Show fix from their video chat buddies. Much more useful than actual 2-way videoconferencing.

    --
    "I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)