Microsoft Develops XP 'Light' for Thailand

GoatJuggler writes with this Bangkok Post report that "Microsoft announced plans to develop a discounted, slightly crippled version of Windows XP for Thailand."

Comments

You mean you can cripple it more?

[Snowspinner]

It's possible to wring even less functionality out of Windows XP?

Revolutionary!

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[Mr Guy]

Sure this one is just a splash screen and a blue screen, used interchangeably.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[pe1rxq]

You forget the teletubby landscape you get between those two....
Or is that the part that is cut out?

Jeroen

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, so they've relabled WindowsME as XP lite then?

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[bad_fx]

Sure this one is just a splash screen and a blue screen, used interchangeably.

...Uhhh... So what're they changing...?

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[ramzak2k]

I would like to get my hands on one of these if it does not include all the applications i dont need - windows messenger , internet explorer, Outlook express. Just the basic UI. I can customize it the way i need. Lesser the functionality, more secure the box will be.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[jay-oh-eee!]

It's funny, people complain about how MS forces you to install everything (IE, Outlook, etc) and call in "anti-competitive" and when they offer it somewhere with these things stripped out it's called "crippled". There's no winning the article poster or OP, it seems.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would like to get my hands on one of these if it does not include all the applications i dont need - windows messenger , internet explorer, Outlook express. Just the basic UI. I can customize it the way i need. Lesser the functionality, more secure the box will be.

It sounds like you want windows XP embedded. For the embedded market, MS lets you pick & choose which parts of the OS you want.

Strangely enough, MS also says that this is completely impossible for the regular version, and that IE cannot be separated from the OS.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[dorsey]

You're not serious, right? Just because they're forcing a different option doesn't mean that they aren't still forcing the choice.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[Pharmboy]

Actually, I am guessing the "crippled" comment was more of a troll for the original author. Its a sure way to get comments, but then again, thats not a problem on /.

I agree with the other posts, I wouldn't call this crippled if it runs the apps, I would call it streamlined. I would be interested in a copy, if they "crippled" out the media players and such. Im sure it still has IE tho, since they wont let you use windowsupdate with Firebird.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[Pharmboy]

There's something very sad when comments I write shooting for funny get moderated insightful. =/

No, when you shoot for funny, and get insightful, thats ironic.

When you shoot for insightful, and get modded as funny, THAT is sad.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[jay-oh-eee!]

You're not serious, right? Just because they're forcing a different option doesn't mean that they aren't still forcing the choice.

I'm serious exactly because they're not "enforcing a different option", they're enforcing nothing -- they're taking stuff out, not replacing it with something else.

Since WMP, for example, isn't replace with WMP-lite.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[mortonda]

Quick, someone mod this one "funny"... ;)

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[aauu]

How about releasing a Thai language only version. I only know one person who could use a Thai version in the us. MS could produce a version of XP that only supported languages of emerging markets.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[Jaysyn]

You mean like this?

Jaysyn

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[tepples]

No, when you shoot for funny, and get insightful, thats ironic.

In practice, the only difference between Insightful and Funny is that Insightful rewards the poster with karma and Funny doesn't.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[drpatt]

I would like to get my hands on one of these if it does not include all the applications i dont need - windows messenger , internet explorer, Outlook express.

This version of Windows has been around for a long time. It is called NT4.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[Phrogger]

> Im sure it still has IE tho, since they wont let you use windowsupdate with Firebird.

It's even more restrictive than that! I tried to connect to Windows Update with Mozilla. Not only do they require you to use IE but they insisted that "You must be running a Microsoft Windows operating system in order to use Windows Update." :-)

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[somethinghollow]

They are paying developers more money to cripple XP so they can sell it for less. Only a multi-billion dollar monopoly can get away with such illogical and rediculous actions.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[Erwos]

I'm not sure whether you were ranting or being ignorant, so I'll assume someone else is ignorant and needs me to say the following:

This is done all the time. Take, for instance, the Quadro line of cards by nVidia. You are buying an intentionally crippled card everytime you buy a GeforceFX. Same hardware, sans a couple switched transistors and a slightly modified BIOS. In other words, they made the Quadro, and then crippled it to be the GeForce.

It's certainly not a tactic that only Microsoft employs. Indeed, most firms that sell both to the "individual consumer" and businesses do it. Singling out Microsoft as an evil corporation because they're employing intelligent (and in this case, non-monopolistic) business practices is stupid.

Basic economics. Literally, they taught it at the very lowest level economics course at my school.

-Erwos

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[Altrag]

You can bet the things they'll pull out won't be IE, OE and Messenger. It'll be mostly stuff from the administrative tools, user profile options, ICS, etc.

The kind of stuff that 90% of "normal" consumers don't really use anyway, so that they can justify a new price level for people who can't (or don't want to) afford home edition.

And of course, if they decide not to release this stripped down (and lower-priced) version in the wealthier countries (US:P), then they'll have the best of both markets -- most people here aren't going to bother going through customs and everything for a cheaper copy of windows, and most people in Thailand and wherever will have a version of windows available at a price they can better afford.

Hopefully they won't decide to strip ICF :P (I doubt they will given all the security hounds on them these days and SP2 supposedly turning on the firewall by default and whatever else).

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[stfvon007]

Spending time and resources to make a product do less. I wonder if there also going to program in some extra secutity holes in that version for good measure? I can hear the announcement in the MS offices now......

"Well guys, we failed at fixing security holes and adding functionality, so were gonna do the exact opposite, Adding holes and REDUCING functionality! We should be good at that!"

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[Dashing Leech]

Basic economics. Literally, they taught it at the very lowest level economics course at my school.

Unfortunately, you left out the explanation of the economics. I've been curious about this for some time. Let me give it a shot, and tell me if I'm wrong.

Basically, there are two ways to make profit. If you price your product cheap (small profit margin), you don't make as much per unit but you'll probably get more sales. If you price it expensive (large profit margin) you make more per unit but don't likely sell as many. The "crippled version" approach takes advantage of both by using two markets: inexpensive vs better quality/features.

The unintuitive part is how can they sell the same product, with extra work put in to cripple it, at a lower price. Why not just leave it uncrippled and sell for the low price? The answer is that the crippled version is partially subsidized by the expensive version. You'd lose all of the bigger profit from the expensive version (since there wouldn't be one), so you'd have to sell a lot more at the cheaper price to make up for it. Having high quality at a low price will probably give you more sales, but perhaps not enough to make up the difference, especially because they are two different markets with different customers.

Looking at it another way, it makes sense to have products for both markets (cheap vs quality). If you didn't use the "cripple" approach, you'd actually have to design and build two different products. Using the "cripple" approach, you only have to design and build one system. The extra cost to cripple it is far lower than the cost of designing and building a second product. This reasoning makes more sense when the design and labour costs are high relative to the cost of components (raw materials). Software is certainly a case where raw materials are cheap, most of the expense is in the development.

Is this generally correct? Or am I missing something?

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[zangdesign]

The "extra cost" actually becomes a slight savings, if the product is designed correctly. Consider: in the instance of two separate products, designed separately, with higher and lower functionality respectively, you require two different assembly lines, with two different approaches to creating two different products.

With the crippled version and the non-cripple version, you still require two assembly lines, but they are duplicates for most of the line, and perhaps require only removal of one or two positions to create the cripple versions of your hardware. You save time and money by creating one assembly line and effectively duplicating it for the lesser (or perhaps the greater) version.

You can even do it with one assembly line and some sort of selector programming where every fifth product is the higher level product (assuming it has one-fifth of the sales).

So you save some money on the manufacturing side. You also save money on the R&D side by creating two cards with only minor differences vs. creating two completely different cards.

It's pretty much the same as producing a car with a tape deck vs. cd player. The research is much the same, but the tape deck fits in the same slot as the CD player, and any room you would have used for the automatic changer is just extra space.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[anti-trojan]

Intel, AMD - for example, Pentium 133-200 are the exact same chip. The chips which can be overclocked without failure are sold as 200's.

This is somewhat different. In this case, P133 is not intentionally crippled; it is slightly defective.

A better example would be 486 DX/SX case where Intel intentionally disabled math co-processor of DX and sold as SX (at a lower price). They also relabelled DX chips as 487 (co-processor) being an "upgrade" for 486SX users. Hence practically they sold some people the exact same chip twice.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[gotw]

I remember a similar (slightly dafter sounding) ploy made by toshiba with their libretto laptops. Their supplier no longer made hard drives of the size they wanted to supply with the 70CT (2GB I think) so they bundled a larger hard drive, and set the BIOS up to only acnowledge 2GB of space! It didn't take long for people who knew to circumvent it, probably merely a sizeable minority tho.

Re:You mean you can cripple it more?

[jsebrech]

In a free market price is set by the meeting place of the supply and demand curves. These are over the entire market. What creating a crippled version does is split the single market into two. One market with people willing to pay more for extra features, the other market for the rest. No loss is made on the "el cheapo" market, and a considerable profit is made in the expensive market, in comparison with selling it all at the same price.

Differentiating your market is necessary to sell commodity products (which video cards are). As demonstrated by the major sporting goods manufacturers (nike, adidas, ...), which sell differentiated logos with regular clothes attached to them.

That microsoft is forced to differentiate its market like this is good news. It means they're losing their monopoly power. A monopoly can always sell everything at the higher price. Clearly, they can't anymore, not everywhere at least. So three cheers to the downfall of the evil empire.

Slightly Crippled?

[Phosphor3k]

Sounds like an improvement. Thats about three steps less crippled than my version, and cheaper to boot!

Re:Slightly Crippled?

[bersl2]

Oh, so you only have to put in a dime, instead of a quarter, when you reboot?

Re:Slightly Crippled?

[nazh]

Slightly Crippled?
But it comes with a free Frogurt.
/ob simpsons quote

Owner: Take this object, but beware it carries a terrible curse!
Homer: [worried] Ooooh, that's bad.
Owner: But it comes with a free Frogurt!
Homer: [relieved] That's good.
Owner: The Frogurt is also cursed.
Homer: [worried] That's bad.
Owner: But you get your choice of topping!
Homer: [relieved] That's good.
Owner: The toppings contains Potassium Benzoate.
Homer: [stares]
Owner: That's bad.


snipped from snpp.com

slightly crippled version

[frovingslosh]

slightly crippled version of Windows XP

Boy, how can I buy this. I would much rather have a slightly crippled version rather than the massively crippled version that Microsoft supplied my OEM for use with my notebook.

But Wait...

[Mr. Fusion]

Didn't they already released Windows XP Home?

-Mr. Fusion

Re:But Wait...

[AKnightCowboy]

Didn't they already released Windows XP Home?

Try reading the article. Windows XP Home was still too expensive for these users in Thailand. I seriously doubt you'll be able to get it outside of some OEM deals on computers sold in Thailand so I wouldn't get so enthused over this.

Re:But Wait...

[LostCluster]

The pro-Linux camps, however, have something to worry about here. Basically, Microsoft is willing to create a cut-rate version of XP rather than risk the users there switching over to Linux....

Re:But Wait...

[Pharmboy]

and no matter how much MS trims and cuts the price, Linux will still always be less than half the price ;) And no activation. And no locked into proprietary systems. And no peer to peer networking limitations (3 on home, 5 on pro). Oh, and almost no worms.

Re:But Wait...

[UnknowingFool]

No, as per MS standard naming conventions:

X = ascii(88)
P = ascii(80)

So in MS logic, we will have to substract 11 from both letters because 11 is binary for 3 and this is the third version of XP.

ascii (88-11) = ascii(77) = M
ascii (80-11) = ascii(69) = E

Hence, this version will be known as Windows ME.

. . .

How apropos.

Re:But Wait...

[maxbang]

There's more to it than that - I'm venturing they're releasing this in hopes that people will purchase something from them, not from the local "vendor" on the corner selling XP out of the back of his autorikshaw. That way they get a little money. The Linux thing is valid, but part of a larger picture.

Re:But Wait...

[SparkMan]

the MS shrink-wrap licenses restrict the number of connections you are supposed to be allowed to have to the PC running the OS

they want you to buy XP Server edition to run real servers

Re:But Wait...

[Pharmboy]

Im talking about the limitations of how many computers you can use in a peer to peer in Windows. How it doesn't allow you connect more. You get to buy Windows Server instead. You can't connect 10 computers running XP home in a peer to peer using Windows networking, they won't see each other. Even XP Pro has peer to peer limitations that prevent it from doing so, but a higher threshold. Windows 9x you could raise the limit in the Netbeui portion of the protocol's properties from the default setting of 10 "maximum connections". XP doesn't have that option.

They could make this crippled version connect to an NT server only, with no peer to peer support. This is one way to cripple Windows so it won't get used in businss, but is ok for home use.

Re:But Wait...

[Jaysyn]

This is the same 10 user limit as in Windows 2000 Pro, but I *think* it's defeatable (in Win2K) with a registry hack. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Jaysyn

Re:But Wait...

[Pharmboy]

My hello world OS has no activation, no lock-in, no p2p limitations, and zero worms. If you're trying to sell Linux, you should mention what it does have not what it doesn't.

I use both, so I'm not exactly trying to sell Linux, but your point is still valid for those that are selling it.

At this stage, I'm more likely to switch back to Mac instead of Linux on the desktop, at least for another year or two. Only use Linux for servers, but still using Windows for the desktop because I love "new, exciting, open and free" but I love photoshop, quark and pc games, and I am more concerned with ease of use and security than freedom on the desktop. For servers, its security and freedom that concern me. Obviously Windows is no longer fitting the bill for either, for my purposes.

I am not a Linux zealot, I'm a Linux realist. I know its almost but not quite ready for primetime on the desktop, and at the cusp of being the best thing out there for servers. Eventually, Linux will be the dominant operating system on the desktop, or at least some unix like system based on Linux/BSD. It just makes sense on so many levels, particularly in security and portability for programmers (once they get the api thing worked out on the desktop.) Windows will still be there, and perhaps as a desktop ontop of a BSD kernel, like Mac. I mean, they ARE licensing Unix technology from SCO, aren't they ;) In 10 years, I would bet they would be the AOL of desktops. Big, but not 51% of the market.

I will say this, I'm far from an expert, but have run several Linux servers for many years and tend to run services on seperate boxes for security and redundency. Linux is at least as easy as Windows server for what I do, just different. Considering I can ssh in and start or stop any services quickly, upgrade, update, install, uninstall, and actually see all the processes that are currently running on a single screen, I would say its much easier to maintain.

Re:But Wait...

[Pharmboy]

Win2k is 10, and I am not sure about NT4. I want to say it is like Win95, being the same interface without plug and play, meaning a default of 10 but changeable in the NetBeui properties (along with NCBS, which I have no idea is for). But I can't swear to NT4 or older. I have a copy of NT 3.1 around here somewhere, I could install and see I guess:) I know WfW 3.11 had no limitations, but was rather slow. At least it would network with Win95

There is no technical reason for the limitation, its purely a licensing thing. You know....

3. Profit!

Oh, on another point. I have a network with about 20 computers right now that needed a simple file server, so its got a P3/1ghz server running Windows 95, lol. The stations are all 98/ME/2k/pro. The 2k and pro boxes connect ok because I have file/printer sharing OFF on all the rest. They are more forgiving about connecting to a 9x "server". On a pure xp network, you just dont see the computers over the threshold. They don't exist.

And no, it was not easy getting 95 to run properly and semi secure on a newer box without proper drivers, but it runs well as long as you boot it every month (it runs out of seconds to count at about 39 days and like all 95, will autocrash then). And since it is firewalled off the net (hardware and software) it does the job. Oh, and yes, its even a licensed copy of 95.

Re:But Wait...

[AKnightCowboy]

that VERY interesting what they removed that is so expensive in WinXP. error messages? say two times cheaper and without GUI ;-)

I don't know. I'm using Windows XP Professional and there's honestly nothing in it I would've paid over $50 for to upgrade from Windows 2000 Professional. I got it for $20 through a campus licensing program, but if I had to buy it on my own at full price I would've just stuck with Windows 2000. I can't imagine how crippled the XP Home version is if XP Pro is this bland. I would've expected developer tools like Visual Studio and Office 2003 Professional to be bundled in with XP Professional for the outrageous price they charge for it normally (over $200!!!). I can get basically the same thing, sans the support for Windows games, by installing Debian GNU/Linux w/OpenOffice.

Re:But Wait...

[antiMStroll]

If policy allows, do yourself a favour and replace 95 on that server with e-smith linux. It was recently spun back to the community by Mitel and I've yet to see a more intuitive, simple Samba server.

Re:But Wait...

[antiMStroll]

The opposite is more true. Microsoft's business case relies on the high dollar return per package sold. Which of their high yield customers feel they deserve to be treated less well than the Thais? Everyone will want price reductions now.

Re:But Wait...

[Pharmboy]

If policy allows, do yourself a favour and replace 95 on that server with e-smith linux. It was recently spun back to the community by Mitel and I've yet to see a more intuitive, simple Samba server.

I had played with samba and found the performance to be very good, but had trouble getting both 95 and 98 to connect. Now thats not an issue, since all the 95 boxes are gone. I am planning to move it over this summer (too busy this time of year). Had not heard of e-smith, tho, thanks for the lead.

Re:But Wait...

[Rallion]

That's interesting...I was at a LAN with 11 people, and we had 100% network functionality. Sharing files and all. All running various versions of XP. ...am I magic? Seriously. I believe you. But I believe me too.

Re:But Wait...

[JoeZeppy]

Nope, not true, never been true.

No more than 10 computers can connect to any one windows worksatation at any time. Has nothing to do with number of PC's in a network.

Inbound Connections Limit in Windows XP

You know, if you Linux fanboys would get your noses out of the air long enough to actually learn something about XP, instead of spewing the same old wive's tales and self-congratulatory bullshit, you might learn that it doesn't suck anywhere near as bad as you'd like to think.

Microsoft Plan

[GonzoDave]

1.Release product in piracy capital of the world
2.?????
3.Profit!

Re:Microsoft Plan

[phalse phace]

Yeah, but Microsoft won't be the ones doing the profitting.

Re:Microsoft Plan

[Threni]

It's a masterstroke, isn't it. Surely people will just pirate the US version? Or perhaps a most local one, if it's in a language they speak?

How to have both...

[Foolhardy]

Microsoft is notorious for bundling things to cause lock-in.
How are they going to balance that with creating a light version of XP?

Re:How to have both...

[Aneurysm9]

Sounds like the last line of the article covered that. They're going to provide a "clear upgrade path" to XP Home and Pro. Sure, "we clear your bank account and you get to upgrade."

why do it?

[monadicIO]

The article says "
because of the complexity of an operating system, reducing functionality was not a simple process and every modification would have to be thoroughly tested.
So why would it make sense to spend more money in making these reductions? Why not just give the standard package? I'm missing something here.

Re:why do it?

[s20451]

Am I the only one who thinks this is to keep Linux and other free operating systems out of third world countries? In that sense it would be a strategic move.

Looks like Microsoft is finally listening to their poorer customers.

Re:why do it?

[DrEldarion]

So why would it make sense to spend more money in making these reductions? Why not just give the standard package? I'm missing something here

Very simple.

User buys XP Lite, uses it for a while, and then decides he needs all the functionality. User then buys XP Home/Pro.

They have now bought two copies of the OS. Money++ for Microsoft.

Re:why do it?

[bakes]

User then buys XP Home/Pro. ...for $2 from the nearest street vendor

Re:why do it?

[Tony Hoyle]

A friend just bought a radeon SE, got a firmware hack for it and it became a full radeon... Not sure what model, though (I was only half listening at the time) but it seems ATI only produce one board an cripple it for the cheaper end of the market.

Re:why do it?

[RealityThreek]

Yeah, you are missing something. The price for the OS is relatively cheaper there. Would be a great place to buy it for cheap and offer it in other countries, eh? By crippling it, they ensure people get what they pay for.

Someone else suggested they "cripple" it by making it Thai only. I think that's a good idea. But hey, the worse Windows is there the better chance they'll switch to Linux instead.

Re:why do it?

[1u3hr]

So why would it make sense to spend more money in making these reductions? Why not just give the standard package? I'm missing something here.

Because if the standard package was much cheaper in Thailand there'd be massive pressure from other customers to get the same price, and lots of grey-market trade. Somehow crippling it, maybe making only Thai system menus avaiable (currently I believe all language versions use the same code and most of the same files), for instance, would make this a different product and a different price justifiable.

Unfortunately, this will probably sell decently

[jbardell]

This is quite the desperate attempt by MS to obtain a larger share of the world OS market. Hopefully those in Bangkok will learn that there's an un-crippled, stable, fast operating system out there already, and it's FREE.

Re:Unfortunately, this will probably sell decently

[bobbagum]

Linux are pre-installed on those machines, that's why microsoft are now discounting.

Re:Unfortunately, this will probably sell decently

[marauder404]

Actually, I think this isn't so much a move against Linux as it is an attempt to stem piracy, which is huge in Thailand. If Windows is available at relatively low cost, more people will buy legal copies of it. Right now, it's just the pirated version that remains the practical choice for the vast majority.

While Thai-language Linux may be relatively well developed, all of the international versions of Windows are quite well done and have been for a while now. While features alone may allow for a user to switch to Linux in English-speaking countries, localization completeness is high on the list in other countries.

Thailand...

[Anonymous Coward]

...where the ILoveYou worm was named MeLoveYouLongTime

Slightly Crippled?

[no longer myself]

Oh come on... With a headline like this, it's just too easy.

Slightly Crippled?
Yeah, it comes pre-installed with 14 viruses.

Slightly Crippled?
It's product activation is 30 days expired.

Slightly Crippled?
It's the latest version.

Slightly Crippled?
They wrote it using .NET

Slightly Crippled?
But it comes with a free Frogurt.

Damn... I could keep this up all night.

Re:Jeez, this article's pretty scant on details.

[LostCluster]

It implies that the reason Microsoft is coming up with this "light" product is because US$99 is too expensive, so they need to come up with a way of slashing the price there without the rest of the world crying foul...

Wait for it!

[aztektum]

And now we present to you a hundred jokes about Windows already being crippled and a hundred more forshadowing jokes about Windows being crippled.

(Not too unlike this one)

What's the difference?

[pilot1]

Yes, I did RTFA, and it said nothing about what would be different between the "light" version and the normal version.

Is it going to have fewer M$ programs bundled with it or what? And if it is, what the hell isn't too tightly integrated for them to remove? Solitare and pinball?

Re:What's the difference?

[confuse(issue)]

Solitare and pinball?

Hello? Remove solitaire?!?! Solitaires random number generator powers all the XP security features.

Re:What's the difference?

[jsse]

Yes, I did RTFA, and it said nothing about what would be different between the "light" version and the normal version.

Becase they're not going to take out any more functionalities, they'd just block them.

Do you realize that XP Home is just a couple of DLL away from XP pro? A complete guide to convert XP pro from XP home is out there.

It's more economical to block them rather than taking them away. :)

Give me a break

[Anonymous Coward]

If they think this will stop people from pirating in Thailand try again. That is like telling a pirate in the US that Windows XP Home is $200 but you can get a 'light' version for $40 or $50.

The pirates will still pirate! DUH

It happened with music. People bantered this whole "when the music companies get a realistic business model and stop charging highway robbery for 1 or 2 good songs yada yada and rest is filler". When iTunes and other services popped up "copyright infringement" (as they candidly call it) didn't stop or slow down. That was just the vocal point they argued for now they will find something else. Before it was fair use. Next it will be "I don't think artist x deserves a mansion so I can judge how much is enough for them" or some crud.

Addiction

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Customers of this new entry level version of Windows would be presented with a clear and easy upgrade path to both Windows XP Home or Windows XP Professional, he added.

In France, tobacco companies have started selling packs of cigarettes containing only 19 cigarettes instead of 20. A "crippled" pack of smokes in a sense. Why? so that those who can't afford full-size packs since the latest price rises (read: kids and teens) can buy the 19 cigarette pack and get hooked.

Sounds like Microsoft is doing exactly that with poor countries: snare customers then pull on the knot. "buy our cheapo limited software, then when you need more functionalities, it'll be a lot more expensive to ditch Microsoft and go for free-software than pay for the Microsoft upgrade".

But I guess it's business as usual, all companies do that sort of thing, not just Microsoft, I'm not shouting evil-M$ here. But I do hope the Thai government sees through the trap ...

Re:Addiction

[Dan East]

That makes absolutely no sense at all. So reducing the price by a whopping 5% makes them "affordable"? If they are reducing the price by more than 5% then it is cheaper per cigarette to buy the 19 pack instead of the 20 pack, so the 20 pack would go out of favor.

It would be more shrewd for them to sell a 20 pack that is subdivided into 4 mini-packs. That way a group of friends could all pitch in to by 20 cigarettes, and then they could divvy out the mini-packs of 5.

Dan East

Re:Addiction

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

That makes absolutely no sense at all. So reducing the price by a whopping 5% makes them "affordable"?

No, but it keeps the price of a pack under the psychological limit of EUR 5. Over that price, studies have shown that people are much more reluctant to buy.

Re:Addiction

[kju]

In germany some companies started to sell packs with 10 cigarettes, which seems to make much more sense than only leaving 1 cigarette out of 20.

Re:Addiction

[Tadghe]

I'm not the orig poster, but here's your links..

http://www.no-smoking.org/july03/07-25-03-2.html
note, however
"The law also prohibits sales of so-called "children's packs," which have less than 19 cigarettes and popular among youths because they are cheaper."

also
http://fr.news.globalink.org/248182.shtml
for more about the so called "Children's packs"

1500 baht...?

[jxliv7]

that's 36 US dollars and change.

so exactly what will be the "reduced functionality"?

i'd bet it will have something to do with hardware compatibility.

The missing feature in the "Light" version

[mooredav]

The End User License Agreement won't have a "disagree" option.

Re:Thailand first, the world second

[tftp]

If this OS comes in Thai language only, then only people familiar with the language can use it. Thai is notoriously complex.

Fighting Piracy For Dummies

[B2K3]

Software publishers in Thailand have begun to realize the huge popularity of pirated software in Thailand: the extreme price differential. You might be able to sell $100 software elsewhere, but when you are selling the $100 software a few feet away from someone selling a pirated copy for $5, what is the rational consumer going to do? Video game manufactures now produce Thai versions of games, complete with a Thai installation manual and even Thai ingame instructions, for only a a few dollars more than the street price of a pirated version. If someone isn't willing to pay 20 times more for the real version, perhaps they're willing to pay only 3 times more. Disclaimer: I was an American who I lived in Thailand for five years. Has anyone else gone shopping at Panthip Plaza?

Re:Fighting Piracy For Dummies

[gl4ss]

..actually what they have to realise is that when it's practically impossible for you to pay that 100$ is a substantial amount of your monthly income you're not that likely to spend it on software.

the current prices for them is like if microsoft was asking 3000$ for copy of windows to run on something that you already paid your arm, leg, lungs, both kidneys and liver for.

.

Re:Fighting Piracy For Dummies

[foonf]

Microsoft doesn't care about piracy in Thailand or elsewhere, in fact it works largely to their benefit. If people who wouldn't be able to afford their software anyway are pirating it illegally, Microsoft doesn't lose any money, but they gain users and market share.

The point of this effort isn't to stop piracy, and Microsoft knows it won't. The problem is that the Thai government is setting up a program for the development of a very cheap computer, and they want to distribute a legitimate operating system with it. Since they weren't going to pay Microsoft's asking price, there was the potential of a very large number of computers being distributed without a Microsoft operating system. And even assuming most of the buyers replace the preinstalled OS (Linux, whatever) with a pirated copy of Windows, it still would have the potential of creating a substantial, new base of computer users not running Windows. This plan heads off that possibility. Whether they replace it with a pirated full version of XP or not, anyone who buys this thing is going to be using Windows, and that is what matters to Microsoft.

Re:Fighting Piracy For Dummies

[jfmiller]

Has anyone else gone shopping at Panthip Plaza?

If this is the 7 story high by 3 block wide shopping mall in Bangkok, then yes. I must admit to being a bit overwelmed my first couple of days in Thialand when I was there a couple of years ago, so I hope you will forgive me not rememebering all the names of all the places I went.

Anyway, what I remember as being most suprizing aside from the shire magnitude of the place, was the number of shops selling dvd and software for 50-100 Baht(1 to 2 USD). And these were not shady back ally shops, they were well established otherwise respectable buisnesses. It was either paradise or a nightmare depending on whether you are a content producer of consumer.

While, I agree that piracy is probably not the sole reason for MS to be putting out windows Lite, I has certianlly got to be a factor.

JFMILLER

Re:Thailand first, the world second

[CrackedButter]

You would still need english since it is the most widely used language on the planet. However if they did only install the Thai language packs then it will deter some peoples from getting it. However i suspect a hack would sort that out before the first alpha is announced.

Re:Jeez, this article's pretty scant on details.

[Limburgher]

Reminds me of US pharmaceutical companies charging some countries more than others for some drugs. Like HIV drugs, for example.

1500 baht doesn't buy much...

[LostCluster]

What this article is leaving out because it wasn't writen for a USA audience is that 1500 baht is roughly equal to US$35-40 depending on where exchange rates are.

Thailand's People PC project is a government effort to try to get the price of a PC to be affordable for the average person there. Microsoft's contribution to the project is its willingness to sell both Windows XP Home and Microsoft Office for 1500 baht... US$35-40. Uh oh, that's a drastically lower price then MS is charging the rest of the world, and MS doesn't like to have that kind of inconsistency.

So, that's why they're working on this "light" edition that will have a few things less than XP Home, and therefore be a different product that MS can price seperately.

Of course, the OSS folks can hop in here and point out that going with Linux would cost them 0 baht which converts to US$0... and that's what Microsoft's worried about. Better to get a little money than to risk getting none at all and letting Linux become the standard operating system in Thailand.

Re:1500 baht doesn't buy much...

[BigBadBri]

Bet you 1500 baht buys a weeks food for a decent sized family.

Of course Microsoft should price products according to the target market, but given the doctrine of first sale, and the principles of free trade, if you can get a product legitimately for 1500 baht in Thailand, then that same product will become available everywhere for the same price.

Now you can either have free trade, or you can have fair regional pricing.

Personally, I'll take Linux.

Re:1500 baht doesn't buy much...

[bendelo]

Perhaps Microsoft is hoping that users after 'trying out' XP Lite will want to upgrade to Home/Pro thus giving them more revenue.

This has NO chance of working

[dancingmad]

I can't speak for Thailand specifically, but I know it's the same as Bangladesh, when I was over there you could get the Longhorn betas pre-burned and with covers and the whole deal. And they cost next to nothing to boost. You could get them at malls, street vendors, Internet cafes. About the only draw back was that the CDs were so cheap they stop working in a few month or so, but that's plenty of time to use it.

Why would the average Thai pay for crippleware when they can already get XP for next to nothing?

Re:Thats great...

[Ianoo]

But that wouldn't be very crippled, would it...

Seriously, as a ardent Linux user and open source zealot, even I admit that Windows XP is a bit more user friendly for beginners. But removing more functionality than already has been removed in XP Home? Gnome and KDE will be more than a match for this setup, I'm sure.

As if Thailand cares anyway, who's going to pay $30 for Windows XP Neutered when you can go down to your local "store" and buy Windows 2003 Advanced Datacenter Server for a dollar?

Re:Thats great...

[LostCluster]

if crippled means, getting rid of internet explorer, the windows kernel, and everything else, and replacing it with, linux 2.6.2, gnome 2.4....

Bingo... Microsoft is lowering the price for Windows XP to this country because if they didn't, their government would start subsidizing Linux-based PCs. This is Microsoft's last chance to make sure that the standard PC there still runs Windows.

codenamed

[jjeffries]

thainy thim

Re:Thailand first, the world second

[LostCluster]

It's highly likely that one of the tweaks they're making to this "light" version is to lock it to the Thai language. If you want to use English, you must upgrade to the full-price XP Home at whatever the local equal to US$99 is...

Possible differences

[venomix]

If you look at the differences between Xp Home edition and Xp professional, they are mainly in hardware and multiuser support. So, possibly, they may have removed the SMP support and set some kind of RAM/Hdd size limit. I guess they might have removed/decreased the multi user support too.

I'm just guessing, but it seems kind of possible anyway =)

Tastes great ... less filling

[qoquaq]

Hurry ... hurry ... hurry ... Everyone ... step right up ... see the OS you have come to hate ... 50% less functionality than your competeing free operating system with 100% of the security holes you have come to love!

We will make it so easy to switch over ... no money down ...lock in forever.

Yes ... and over here the dog faced boy .... yes hurry hurry hurry!!!

This is the definition of monopoly

[nut]

Microsoft are going to spend money and time devaluing their product to sell it to people who can't afford it at their current price. This from a company that makes a profit of over $1 billion a quarter.

Re:This is the definition of monopoly

[bap]

That's not fair; many sellers engage in price discrimination, i.e. they sell essentially the same product to different groups based on each group's ability to pay. This is particularly common when marginal costs are low but sunk costs are high. DVDs are a good example, with "region codes" serving that sole purpose. University education is another nice one, with "scholarships" used to set radically different price points for different customers. Clothes are another classic example. Identical cars are often sold at dramatically different prices by changing nothing but the logo on the hood. The most familiar example is probably airplane seats; the airlines have raised price discrimination to a high art.

(This doesn't change the fact that Microsoft often engages in unethical business practices. Just not in this case, at least until them have the whole country locked in...)

Re:Jeez, this article's pretty scant on details.

[HawkPilot]

It doesn't even say why Microsoft is doing it: concerns about piracy? relative crappiness of Thai computers? price concerns?

My guess is that they are releasing a product with a price point that the market can bear. It kinda makes since economically. The alternative would be to release WinXP Home at the same relative prices that they are selling it for in the rest of the world. And have it not sell because it is too expensive based on the average earnings.

They could just sell XP Home at a reduced price but that would admit both the monopolistic practice of "same product - different price," depending on where you live, that movie studios and others have been accused of doing. Also, people would realize that the marginal cost of each addition copy sold of any software product is so low that the rest of the world will not stand for the prices that they are currently paying. After all, why would you want to pay $100 for a licensed copy of Win XP Home when you know that it is sold elsewhere for $10 and you are essentially paying for digital bits on a plastic disc that cost practically nothing to manufacture. Sure, the programmers have to get paid but doesn't $100 for your copy seem excessive? Therefore, avoid this scenerio and sell a crippled version. [My vote would be to "cripple" it by not including IE ]

I have not verified this, but I would imagine that computer hardware is generally cheaper in that part of the world and legal software makes up a higher percentage of TCO. This is probably just another factor.

Re:Translation: Linux is winning there

[farnz]

There's an EU anti-trust investigation ongoing into unfair practices by Microsoft. If MS can sell Windows and Office cheaply in Thailand, one of the EU's questions is likely to be "Why can't you do that here?"; this crippled version aims to do an end run around such ideas by giving an obvious answer.

Perhaps its Embedded XP

[nurb432]

They already have a 'lite' version, its what runs on PDA's...

Plus the 'embedded' product line...

Market segmentation and price descrimination

[dyfet]

One hallmark of a true monoply is price descrimination and market segmentation. This is where a monopoly charges different prices to different classes of users for reasons that do not reflect actual cost differences and often where the same product is sold in different forms to create artifical price points and artificial or arbitrary market seperations. The key to price discrimination is to exploit the fact that different users have a different willingness and ability to pay for essentially the same goods and services. As such I simply view this as further evidence of monopolistic behavior, as if further evidence is even nessisary.

Re:Market segmentation and price descrimination

[cookiepus]

Have you ever heard of the big mac index? the idea that different markets mustpay different prices for the same product is prety fundamental.

Re:Market segmentation and price descrimination

[CAIMLAS]

How is this different than,

the clothing industry?
the music industry?
the software industry as a whole?
or any number of other industries?

It isn't. Granted, there's some protectionism in there (clothing industry) so as to allow for such inflation, but that's largely how it sits. All the money floats to the top, too.

A little more on teh story

[randomErr]

Ars Technica has a little more on the story. Here's the text:

Microsoft is reportedly developing a "light" version of Windows XP to be aimed at developing markets. This is the word from the Bangkok Post (irritatingly long registration required), which is reporting that the origin of the project is Thailand's own program to aggressively seed homes with computers.

Thailand's People's PC project, initiated last year by the ICT Ministry, has been the genesis of a new operating system from Microsoft Corporation that is now under development, according to Microsoft Thailand Managing Director Andrew McBean. The new OS, as yet unnamed, but a new "light" addition to the Windows XP "family", will be released in limited, selected markets later this year and will offer reduced functionality when compared with Windows XP Professional and Home editions, he said.

Microsoft has to date been very protective of its pricing model, which aims at more or less parallel prices for its products across the globe. When People's PC was originally announced, Microsoft said that it would offer XP Home and Office Basic at an extremely reduced price, signaling the start of the company's willingness to adjust pricing on national levels. Now, however, it looks like the company is going to develop yet another consumer OS version. Why would the company spend additional resources developing an even-less functional version of Windows XP Home when they could simply just sell Windows XP Home at a reduced rate? The most likely explanation is piracy. In developing countries, piracy is a major problem, and the Redmond Giant is likely trying to avoid mass distribution of its fully functional OS by seeding the populace with a less functional, and probably less attractive OS.

Mr McBean added that the first release would essentially be XP Home edition with some reduced functionality, although for future versions there would be a chance of additional or incremental development and innovation. But he also pointed out that because of the complexity of an operating system, reducing functionality was not a simple process and every modification would have to be thoroughly tested.

A release date is not known for certain, but Microsoft Thailand is saying that this will happen, and not before SP2 for XP is released. It also remains unclear just where this product will be available. It's highly unlikely that it will every be available in the West. Rather, this project seems squarely aimed at recent efforts in Asia to build Linux-based solutions for emerging markets.

This is about MS making more $$

[xorbe]

"Customers of this new entry level version of Windows would be presented with a clear and easy upgrade path to both Windows XP Home or Windows XP Professional, he added."

1) Customer buys XP-demo
2) Customer "forced" to upgrade to XP-home/pro at a later date
3) Profit!

Before you know it, Dell/HP/etc will be shipping only XP-demo, and end-suckers^Wusers will have to post-purchase the "real" thing.

Some other examples

[uptownguy]

Reminds me of US pharmaceutical companies charging some countries more than others for some drugs. Like HIV drugs, for example.

...or gas stations charging 10 cents more/gallon at the only downtown pump versus one of many in the suburbs.

...or books on the New York Times bestseller list being discounted by 15% at some bookstores but not others...

...or taxis and buses charging an additional "downtown zone" or "rush hour zone" rate for the same ride...

...or the vending machine at the movie theater charging you $2 for a 16 oz. coke when you could buy a 12 pack for less that double that...

...or the hip bar downtown charging $6 for a Heineken but the college bar where my brother lives sells beer for 75 cents on tap...

...or the cell phone company letting you make free calls on weekends but charging you 25 cents/minute for weekdays...

Yeah. Gosh. supply. Demand. Different markets. Variable pricing strategies. Absolutely shocking. We simply must create laws so that the government can set fair prices for everyone.

Re:Some other examples

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. Gosh. supply. Demand. Different markets.

So wait, you mean that companies only get to call it a global marketplace when it benefits them?

I guess pure chaos would erupt and the world itself would shatter into trillions of little rocks if companies were forced to either pick a global market or a local market, and were forced to stick to it. None of the current "labor is a global market, we'll hire programmers from 3rd world countries and fire our own programmers" "Oh, but software is a local market. We'll make this area pay 1/100th what the other pays, and give them an inferior product to boot. But it will take 2 years to produce. Oh, and to make sure we can enforce this, we'll create a DMCA protected access control to make sure nobody pays extra to get a copy early and try to use it in the wrong zone, and to make sure that nobody in the 100x zone buys and uses a cheap copy."

But thats ok, after all its Good Old American Capitalism, and in the future we won't have to bother to elect people, since the corporations will just buy whoever they want into the presidency and congress (openly, instead of the current practice of giving money for some reason which can't really be explained but most certainly isn't outright bribery, oh no, giving money to elected people and expecting them to vote your way is never bribery). And just like always they'll declare a new tax cut for the 500 or so people with over $5billion income, and shift the burden onto the millions and millions of people making $10,000 a year, that is, if they're even lucky enough to manage to get a job, what with PhDs taught in US schools on US taxpayers' dimes who then move back to their home country in Umswanigosta going for $5000 a year.

But hey, companies doing whatever the hell they want is all ok with you.

Re:Some other examples

[Jaysyn]

...the college bar where my brother lives sells...

I'd say he has a problem...

Jaysyn

Depends on what's missing

[Valdrax]

None of the articles that I've read about this have said what functionality they're taking out of the system. For all we know, all the apps that we complain about (i.e. Explorer, Outlook, and Media Player) will be in the OS and other non-downloadable, core/system functionality will be removed (e.g. VPN, IPv6, and other networking protocols) or something else vexing but replaceable with third-party software.

In other words, it's perfectly possible that it will be both "anti-competitive" AND crippled.

Re:Depends on what's missing

[Reziac]

Sadly, the "streamlined" WinXP that Pharmboy and I long for may well be our own private fantasy, and as you say, the Thai version may well be a downgrade akin to how XP Home isn't quite up to XP Pro, only more so. Truly crippling it would do more for the "shit, if I want the damned thing to WORK at all, I'll have to upgrade" market.

However, given that the "reduced functionality" is supposed to be so M$ can "afford" to offer XP at a lower price, it may be that this reflects the cost of royalties for the various kitchen sinks they've shoveled in sideways (like the CD burning applet, which I gather is actually just one little part of Roxio5 -- and I'm sure Roxio charged M$ to use it).

Hopefully once it comes out, some kindly Thai will report back, so we can cease speculating. :)

[Shovelling kitchen sinks. What a horrible image!]

who would want it?

[Mark19960]

when you can pirate the 'full' version for less?
isnt that what they do there?
Micro$oft could GIVE the 'lite' version away and STILL be in the same position.

Easy How-To-Eat-Right OS Chart...

[Eric_Cartman_South_P]

Lard: Windows XP Media Edition

Full Fat: Windows XP Professional

Regular: Windows XP Home Edition

Lite: Windows XP Family Edition

Atkins Diet: Mac OS X

Fat Free: Linux

Anorexia: *BSD

Red Herring

[UnknowingFool]

I read the article and it isn't very clear about what is being removed out of XP Lite. It is clear that it will be cheaper than XP Home. I'm sure the things that won't be removed are: IE, Media Player, maybe even MSN Explorer.

Maybe there won't be much at all removed, but MS needs to justify the lower price. Otherwise, if it offered Windows XP Home at dramatically lower prices, some governments may start asking the 64,000 question:

"Well, Bill when we said we couldn't afford XP Home at Z price and considered Linux, you say you can offer it at 1/3 Z price. If that was the case, why didn't you offer that before? Were you gouging us that much?"

Windows XP is already crippled

[Jason1729]

Any version of XP a consumer can legally get is already crippled beyond use. It has a huge bug called "product activation" which means you can not reinstall the product you supposedly bought without Microsoft's permission. This renders the product completely useless because you won't be able to re-install it in 5 or 10 years to access old data, or if somehow newer MS code is even worse.

Why is some other version with an insignificant additional crippiling newsworthy?

Jason
ProfQuotes

Re:My question is...

[irokitt]

1. Start the Registry Editor

2. Go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion \Explorer\CabinetState\

3. Right-click an empty space in the right pane and select New > String Value

4. Name the new value Use Search Asst

5. Double-click this new value, and enter no as it's Value data

6. Close the registry editor

Re:Thats great...

[metlin]

Hmmm, for one, OEM Vendors and established dealers who cannot afford to sell pirated copies?

When they have to preload and bundle OSes with their hardware, a higher overhead would hurt them real bad. Which is why, they'd rather prefer something cheaper, even though it may not be the best alternative.

If you ask, how does it make a difference to MS? Can't they sell the same thing cheaper? Then the answer would be no, simply because they'd be pressurized by other vendors in the same way.

So the solution is to come up with an excuse for a price cut, and thats precisely what they're doing.

It does not matter whether or not its got features added/removed. What is crucial is the price cut, and how they've come up with it. And its a means of attracting more OEM vendors.

Oh give me a motherfucking break....

[Kjella]

Why? so that those who can't afford full-size packs since the latest price rises (read: kids and teens) can buy the 19 cigarette pack and get hooked.

Try to pay at least some attention next time you're in the convienience store and you'll see pretty much every commodity works this way - those fishsticks, the glass of jam, the block of cheese.

They all reduce size. 1000g -> 900 -> 800 -> 750 -> 700 -> 600 -> 500 & new "big-pack" of 1000. Why? Because people pay a lot more attention to changes in price - changes in weight or volume go fairly unnoticed.

Of course in this case it's pretty obvious, since they're few and easily counted. But it's the same thing. People in general have a price they find "acceptable" for a pack of cigarettes, regardless of the price of the individual price per cigarette.

It's one of the small irrationalities of the mind, and the manufacturers are catering to it. To go from there to this being some directed attack on kids and teens is quite simply hogwash. There's more than enough legitimate complaints to make against them, without grasping for straws.

Kjella

MSFT must be scared

[rediguana]

This would set a nasty precident for MSFT, once one country has seen that MSFT may remove their global pricing, every country with a currency weaker than the USD will be clamouring for the same benefits. Guess its part of a larger trend away from US companies that need to earn in USD to survive. If you think about that, there are some nasty implications for the US ahead in international trade because of the relatively strong USD...

EVERYONE uses this strategy

[Killswitch1968]

Examples:
1. Senior rates and student rates. They are poorer and can't afford things like park admission. This is a way to get them to pay up.
2. Coupons. Lower income people will now shop at your store. Rich people generally have better things to do with their time than clip coupons.

Microsoft is not special, and you don't need to be a monopoly to 'exploit' this strategy.

Wasn't inextricable integration part of MS defense

[saarbruck]

I seem to recall not so long ago Microsoft claiming it was impossible to remove components or offer any sort of modular form of Windows? Wasn't this one of the prime arguments that MS used in the antitrust trial? "No, your honor, we can't remove Internet Explorer. It just doesn't work that way." I really wish the defense witness had been allowed to demonstrate just how modular XP embedded is...

This is probably to avoid "dumping"

[dcavanaugh]

Microsoft's problem in many parts of the world is that their US & Western European prices are dead-on-arrival. People who make $200/month are not about to cough up $199 for a copy of XP Pro. If they sell at a price that makes sense in Thailand, they get accused of "dumping". Piracy has little to do with the situation. Linux is available with no piracy required. With or without piracy, customers are not going to spend money they don't have.

If I were in charge of global marketing for Microsoft, I would create a country-specific version for certain target markets (like Thailand). It would be cosmetically "dumbed down" and priced to sell. Of course, any of the features that are not included in the base install can probably be downloaded from microsoft.com in about 30 seconds. You can't be accused of dumping if the product in question isn't sold anywhere else.

thats not possible

[geekoid]

won't it break the OS? I mean the told a judge that there OS couldn't be broke apart.

LitePC

[Anonymous Coward]

For those wishing for a reduced install, LitePC lets you 'uninstall' a great many things - IE, OE, Messenger, Windows Update, MSN Explorer, Media Player, etc.

Disclaimer - I am NOT a LitePC employee, just a user, who was impressed.

I see potential...

[vandan]

I think if you removed IE, Outlook Express, Active Desktop, Windows Media Player, and Digital Rights Management from Windows, it would be far LESS crippled, and actually MORE valuable.

Lite PC

[munwin99]

For those wishing for a reduced install, LitePC lets you 'uninstall' a great many things - IE, OE, Messenger, Windows Update, MSN Explorer, Media Player, etc. Disclaimer - I am NOT a LitePC employee, just a user, who was impressed.

Re:"Slightly Crippled"

[eWarz]

1) It didn't have a compiler.

What do normal users need with a compiler? If you want one you can get one here.

2) It had no INTENDED remote access services such as FTPD or SSHD.

of course it didn't, that's what Windows Server 2003 is for.

3) I was unable to manipulate graphics.

*gasp* welcome to the world of closed source! Companies actually make MONEY here. You can do basic graphics manipulation using Paint, or you can download The Gimp of course, otherwise you should spring for a copy of Paint Shop Pro or Adobe Photoshop

4) I was unable to use my Network Card.

5) I was unable to optimally use my graphics card.

6) I was unable to optimally use any piece of hardware that didn't have Microsoft written on it.

What kind of bizarre obscure hardware where you using? Windows XP properly detects alot more hardware then linux does currently.

It takes for ever to do anything in Notepad as compared to Vi.

Then by all means, download vi and use it. Some people like working with this little thing called a Graphical User Interface.

8) I had practically no system logging to speak of.

Windows XP is a desktop OS, you can find all the logging you should ever care for at Start->Control Panel->Administrative Tools->Event viewer.

9) I was unable to use multiple desktops.

10) I was unable to entirely change the appearance of the GUI.

most display drivers come with desktop management software, or you can use Windows XP's quicklogin features to have multiple login sessions. Part of the reason Windows is so successful is that you CAN'T entirely change the GUI. Windows, at it's core, always looks like Windows, even with a skin applied.

11) I was unable to simply download much of the software needed to render Windows somewhat useful. Even though Gimp and OpenOffice run on Windows and GVIM, refer to number 4.

See my answer to number 4.

12) I kept getting "Access Denied" or something along the lines of insufficient permissions even though I believe I gave myself full rights over the system. On Windows 2000 this can be seen even if you are logged in as Administrator.

Wow, Microsoft prevents you from killing critical system processes! What a shock! Oh no! what ever shall we do?!? Seriously though, the only time i've ever gotten access denied is when a file is in use, or you try to kill a critical system process (except XP, which lets you)

13) I had to reboot fifteen times, and four hours later while windowsupdate.microsoft.com told me I needed nearly a GB of updates. Many of which could only be installed one at a time. 14) Then another two hours and multiple reboots becuase of installing device drivers (refer to number 6) and then updating those from the old drivers that were on old disgarded discs in the closet.

with the default install of XP, there are 50 mb worth of updates + sp1, which is another 30 or so, a far cry from the 1 gb you speak of.

15) I had next to nothing in regards to software and production....

Compared to what you get with the average Linux ISO image.... Windows, out of the box, is a pathetic quadriplegic whose wheel chair is missing a wheel.

Then, Microsoft goes and strips so much "functionality" from Windows XP to publicly admit it's "crippled"? What more can you take from it?

They never stripped functionality, it was never there to begin with. Windows XP is a desktop OS for every day users, not for supergeeks.

Disclaimer: I am not pro microsoft nor am i in any way being paid by microsoft for this comment. (On the contrary, i'm working on an open source Microsoft Windows NT Compatible Operating System called ReactOS The parent was a blatant troll and i was simply shedding some light on the truths.

Re:"Slightly Crippled"

[thebatlab]

1) Would you like them to have bundled their own? Or would you like to remember this generally is a home-user oriented OS.
2) Again, home user oriented and I believe server editions have these capabilities. I could be wrong.
3) Not sure exactly what you mean here. Image editing? Graphics programming? Buy/download a program to do it.
4) Get a better network card. Seriously. XP has great hardware support.
5) Vendors usually provide *their* own tools to toy with *their* hardware to make it "optimal".
6) I am unable to optimally understand what your problem is. My hardware all runs fine and I don't have Microsoft written all over any of it. Actually, my ms gamepad is my worst piece of hardware.
7) Would you like them to bundle Word?
8) Home users have enough that when an error happens it can get reported and if you view those error dumps, they actually have a lot of info in them. There are various logs to view in the Computer Management area of Administrative Tools.
9) Granted.
10) What is it with wanting complete customization but also wanting standards compliance? Ok, so you can't customize every single bit of it, but you can customize a reasonable amount. An amount that say....a home user would like? Power users can find those tools easily enough.
11) You're right. You can't get it all for free. Bummer. Some people need to live.
12) It's their problem you can't admin your machine?
13) I don't know about that. Get SP1 and that takes care of a lot and it's not a gig. It may be large but not that large.
14) Why would you install drivers and then....update from old drivers???
15) So....you had a system that you could then customize to your own working environment? Sounds ok to me.

"Then, Microsoft goes and strips so much "functionality" from Windows XP to publicly admit it's "crippled"?"

Well, I think "crippled" is the term everyone else is using. "Functionally insuperior" might have better marketing spin. Or "function impaired". Or maybe "functionally disabled". Or maybe "Windows ME".

Woop woop -- Danger, danger, losing mindspace...

[zooblethorpe]

True --

But consider! MS is going for complete computing noobs here. Looking at the mailing lists, Linux can be befuddling for power users. It took me my own good time to figure some things out, no thanks to spotty documentation.

And therein lies the rub -- MS may suck donkey balls in a lot of ways, but they do a good job of holding noob hands with decent documentation. Unless and until some Linux distro can do the same, and still for that same magic price (and in Thai, Laotian, Swahili, what have you), I think this move by MS presents a genuine threat of incursion into undeveloped mental real estate.

Smaller? I can see it now

[Tablizer]

Blue Icon of Death

Say it real fast...

[zeroth]

They need a new name different from "WinXP" but related to it? How about we drop the "X" and get "WinP"?

It's all in the registry

[superpulpsicle]

Like WinXP home and professional, there is a program out there (cough.. NTswitcher) which changes a couple registry settings and poof... home becomes identical to professional. As was the same with the windows 2000 series, I am pretty sure XP light is the same thing regardless of what M$ marketing saids.

Me so crashy

[SensitiveMale]

Me give you BSOD long time

Re:"Slightly Crippled"

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of bizarre obscure hardware where you using? Windows XP properly detects alot more hardware then linux does currently.

Linux works on AMD Operons (and did 1 year ago) Microsoft? Linux runs on Alpha processors. Microsoft? Linux runs on MIPS processors. Microsoft? Linux runs on POWERPC processors.
Microsoft? Linux runs on POWERPC64 processors.
Microsoft? Linux runs on SPARC processors.
Microsoft? Linux runs on SPARC64 processors.
Microsoft? Linux runs on z900 processors.
Microsoft? Linux runs on 680x0 processors.
Microsoft? Linux runs on arm processors.
Microsoft? Linux runs on H8/300 processors.
Microsoft? Linux runs on cris processors.
Microsoft? Linux runs on v850 processors.
Microsoft?

Was that the hardware that you were talking about?

Re:"Slightly Crippled"

[CherniyVolk]

What do normal users need with a compiler? If you want one you can get one here.

"get one here", oh and "get one there", oh look over there, there's a cuckoo singing in the tree. Look, I had a person a Linux CD, and another a Windows XP CD... Don't give me any of this "get one here" garbage, I'm talking about what you get when you install Windows XP.

of course it didn't, that's what Windows Server 2003 is for.

Why should I have to buy Windows Server 2003? We weren't talking about Windows Server 2003, so why did you even mention it? Unless, you're talking about the singing cuckoo bird again.

You can do basic graphics manipulation using Paint

"basic"!? What is your definition of "basic"? Don't be so naive, PhotoShop is a decent product and I would purchase it alongside Gimp if they had a port to Linux. I buy software that's worth buying, the problem is, Microsoft Paint doesn't do much of anything and is a joke. If viewing a file and screwing it up with a pencil mark is your idea of "basic" graphics editing you've got some perspective issues to deal with.

What kind of bizarre obscure hardware where you using? Windows XP properly detects alot more hardware then linux does currently.

Now, in reference to you implying I'm a troll, what we have here is the pot calling the prospective kettle black. I have an AMD motherboard with the nForce 2 chipset on it. Windows XP, out of the box, does not have a clue how to use the onboard NIC interface. but if you care, I can list alot of other hardware aswell.

Windows is so successful is that you CAN'T entirely change the GUI

This is bull, as there are plenty of examples demonstrating what your claiming is irrelevant to an Operating Systems prosperity.

Microsoft prevents you from killing critical system processes! What a shock! Oh no

Irony, see I saw it. To bad your sense of humor is but one way as you apparently haven't seen my own facetiousness.

Bottom line pal, if I'm root or administrator or whatever the computer better damn well do what I tell it to do and I don't care for a half-wit confirmation box. Do it, do it now. If I make a mistake, that's my ass. A lot of people write better with a pen, becuase they know that mistakes are less fogiven than with a pencil.

Windows XP is a desktop OS for every day users, not for supergeeks.

Here, I concur. So, why did you even argue? Windows XP out of the box has nowhere near the capabilities on many technologies as the typical RedHat CD or Mandrake CD.

It's of little use to argue here anyway... I have to remember this is /.

interesting

[CAIMLAS]

I wonder what exactly 'reduced functionality' will mean? No more 'security loopholes' allowing 'power users' to use machines as remote gateways? :P

Kidding aside, I wonder what exactly they plan on stripping out. Personally (as others here have mentioned as well), I'd love to see a version of XP, minus all the GUI tweaks, 'tools' that nobody uses (sans defrag), IE, WMP, and the like. I imagine that, if it's in the least bit operable, and it's available in English, it would see widespread pirating due to the suckyness of XP.

Then again, it might just be their way of saying it's going to have fully implimented DRM :P

Re:With Pantip Plaza, it doesn't matter

[Jennifer E. Elaan]

100 baht sounds a little steep. I saw VCD's going for more like 30-40 when I was there. And this wasn't underground either. I wasn't entirely sure that the products were actually pirate, though, because DVD's were going for only a little more (~120 baht or so).

Still, it's true enough. The government doesn't seem to care at all about foreign copyrights. And these aren't underground operations either. This is all out for public display.

PS. $1US ~= 40 baht.