Slashdot Mirror
Stores Neglecting Old Videogame Packaging?
Thanks to GamerDad for its editorial discussing the poor condition of older console games sold by videogame stores. The writer notes: "Getting N64 games in any kind of reasonable [boxed] condition seems to be next to impossible... even more shocking is the state of their SNES and Genesis stock." He continues: "With SNES games, I can sort of understand that the deterioration of cardboard would leave you with just the cartridge and the manual eventually, but apparently the stores are now just throwing out the manual if the box is torn/useless. Even Genesis cartridges, sold in those hard shell boxes, are rarely found in their original packaging anymore. It's the systematic destruction of our gaming history." The piece concludes: "Is it really so hard to maintain a policy of keeping the product in similar condition to how it's traded in or maybe even stop accepting bare games altogether to give your customers more reason to take care of their games to retain value?" What's the solution, if any, to this problem?
The first thing I do when I get a game is throw out the cardboard packaging. Especially with computer games that have a single CD and MAYBE a registration card in them. I used to keep the boxes but when I moved I found I had 30 big software boxes that I had never touched again. Do you want my mint condition Willy Beamish case?
They have a hard time finding older (5+ years old) used videogames with intact original packaging with the documentation present!
As opposed to all the other old used products on the shelves with well-preserved packaging . . .
'I ain't a liar, baby, and I ain't proud I just want what I'm not allowed.' -- Violent Femmes, 36-24-36
Quite frankly I doubt anybody really cares. Sure it is nice to get games in good condition and in a box and all, but the games the article is talking about are unlikely to be sold brand new (most are no longer being produce), and if you are buying a second hand game then you often expect things like this.
It isn't like the stores are getting games in good condition and delibrately beating them up; they get the game in the condition it is traded in, and if people aren't willing to buy it in that condition it isn't like they are being forced to.
I certainly don't like the suggestion of stores not accepting bare games in order to teach those people a lesson - if someone is desperately looking for an old copy of a game, do you think they would prefer the choice of mint condition or not at all? I think once they get desperate enough they will buy the game sans box and manual, and be pleased with their purchase...
It will be interesting to see how sought after any well-preserved games will be in their original packaging. I can easily imagine they'll be our grandchildren's baseball cards.
Hello! it's used!
If I was his editor I'd slap him on the back of the head for wasting his time. I've rarely even at gamestop seen new games in their boxes except todays games that come in DVD cases.
I'll do him a favor though. I wont sell my copy of KOTOR that the cat scratched up the box. Maybe then he can rest in peace.
If you're going to save the packaging for every game, and no one else does, eventually that complete product will be worth money over and above the value of the game itself. The simple fact is that I don't really appreciate the retail package of a game, once I own that game, and I'd rather use the space for other things, just like every other normal person. The packaging was meant to be disposable. They made it out of paper for chrissakes. If you're different, then so be it. In 50 years when universities are offering "video game packages of the 20th century: a monological examination" as a class, you'll have saved cultural obscura and done your job as a pop-cultural historian. The world will thank you.
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
Along similar lines, it's not all that hard to track down a copy of Duck Hunt for the NES at the average gaming store. Just try to find a computer game from that era, though. Or even fifteen years later.
As is the case with so many collectibles these days, I'm afraid that eBay is our only hope.
DecafJedi
my weblog: apropos of something
I mostly agree with gamerdad on the article; the state of most preowned games out there is disgusting --- at EB.
Smaller stores tend to have much better preowneds, for instance. I think the culprit is that most 'casual' gamers don't take care of their games (because they ARE casual gamers -- gaming isnt their 'passion'.. similar to people who don't take care of their cars VS people who love their cars), and only know of EB as a place to buy and sell them (again, because they ARE casual gamers, and don't know too much about anything about them), and therefore are also more likely to trade them in (yet again, because they ARE casual gamers, and therefore don't care to keep them).
end result -- people who dont care about theit games trading many of them into the most popular places.
Also, just my feelings on the subject...
I feel that while it IS "nice" to keep them, i have no real problem with it when i lose a cardboard box. its only when i lose a plastic case (pc cd jewel case, XBOX dvd case) that i have a problem, because then the game doesn't feel complete. Manuals are my biggest pet peeve, partially because games of old used to have huge ones, and that used to be worth like 50% of the cost, and i guess that feeling hasn't worn off.
Newsie, Moderator, www.tauniverse.com
But many people with a sense of nostalgia will just want to play the old games, and some documentation would be nice. I recently had an urge to play Ultima IV again (which was released as freeware some years back). Luckily a little googling uncovered numerous Ultima documentation projects that archive complete documentation for all the Ultima games. Some had scans of the originals, others had them transcribed into doc or ascii.
Another case is when I go and rent the odd game and the docs always seem to be missing. Again, its google to the rescue. I'm a little more hesitant about this though, as unauthorized online copies of instructions for new games may promote piracy (or at least make it more convienent). But for a game that's way past it's peak sales window, getting instructions on the internet can be a godsend.
One final option is www.gamefaqs.com which have walkthroughs and FAQs for just about every game imaginable. They dont make the full documentation available, but the FAQs will often have basic gameplay instructions to at least get you started.
Scan the boxes and manuals, and upload them to the internet. There are already collections floating around. Sure it is illegal, but many things that shouldn't be are. This is one of them.
The problem is that, in most places, older systems aren't worth the trouble. The prices at EB are fixed so high that most people won't want to buy them, even though most are traded in without the box or instructions. Tetris for Nintendo (NES) is going for $39.99 CDN preowned, cart-only. No one's going to buy that, but that's what it's priced at.
The N64 games at my local EB are all the ones that no one wants - that's why they got traded in. No one buys them, they just use EB as a clearinghouse to get rid of the crap they wish they'd never bought.
No one cares about N64 games because there's no money in them.
The condition they're in really depends on who owned them before. I've seen a lot of games in mint condition (I saw a copy of Syphon Filter that looked like it had never been played), but I've seen a lot of games where people just don't care about what condition their games are in. Looking through the local EB's collection, most of the games without original cases are wrestling games. Shock.
The fact of the matter is, these are pre-owned games. They are used. They were played by someone else. No, they're not in excellent condition. That's why they're cheaper. Get over it.
--Dan
I still have all of my console game boxes: NES, GB, SNES, N64, even Virtual Boy. They're stored safely in the closet, unpacked and dusted from time to time. They're in great shape and some even still have the original marketing material that came packed with each game. I save them because they are a part of the game. A lot of time went into creating the cover art, the back-of-the-box text, and so forth. They just don't make box art like those anymore; everything's rendered and 3D and polished these days. Give me the classic 2D images of Mario with a turnip in his hand or the gold box with the Zelda logo on it any day.
The condition of preowned games also depends on the store you go to. The EB that I work at is full of gamers. If something comes in with the box/instructions, we keep it that way, regardless of policy. Unfortunately, not many people kept their old stuff in good condition until they traded it in. I doubt that 10-15 years ago, anyone thought that games like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger would be so widely sought after like they are now. Also ask the person there if they have anything stored on the back shelves. I know we keep alot of our mint condition older stock out of the bins for the sole purpose of them not getting damaged while they are out there.
It boggles my mind that the author's first theory on the lack of good mint old boxes is that the cardboard has fallen apart and that his second is that stores must be throwing them away. It seems to me to be FAR more likely that what's happening is that people like me DON'T KEEP OUR PACKAGING. I have a lot of games and a pretty small appartment. When I pack to move, my first thought isn't "oh man, I'd better work out how to fit all of this cardboard into the moving van".
I'm especially surprised, given that this article is coming from GamerDad. I mean if he's a dad, that means he has children, right? So maybe he's seen how children treat their toys? When I was a kid, I was pulling heads off of G.I. Joes. Do you think I was treating the packaging in a respectful manner?
From my point of view (I like games, not boxes) the only real problem that he raises in the entire article is that sometimes the games are missing the manual. Here are some solutions:
1) Don't worry about it, most games have ingame tutorials and most manuals were pretty useless. You can learn how to play by experimenting with the game.
2) Check out sites like GameFAQs. Many of the best written FAQs have instructions on how to play the game in the introductions.
3) Pay extra for games with manual (and box if you really want it). Then stores can pay kids selling games extra for their used games with manual (and box) and there will be incentive for them to take care of the product.
I have a lot of opinions about Cyborgs and Architects
Seems to me that most people never think about the work that goes into EVERY aspect of game production. I've box three TV boxes filled with old NES, SNES, N64, etc game boxes. Not the games, just the manuals and boxes. Even the Nintendo Power subscription cards... minus one or two when I actually subscribed as a kid. With the exception of the original MegaMan, a lot of good work goes into most game's box art. It is absolutely a part of the product.
With SNES games, I can sort of understand that the deterioration of cardboard would leave you with just the cartridge and the manual eventually, but apparently the stores are now just throwing out the manual if the box is torn/useless. Even Genesis cartridges, sold in those hard shell boxes, are rarely found in their original packaging anymore. It's the systematic destruction of our gaming history."
SNES, Genesis, and N64 (mentioned earlier) have about as much to do with "gaming history" as Chevy Chevettes have to do with automotive history. The oldest among them, the Sega Genesis, came out in 1989 with a Motorola 68000 CPU. The SNES came out in 1991 while the N64 came out in 1996!
If you want real video gaming history worth saving, then look to the Magnavox Odyssey, released in 1972 as the first home video game. Then there is the Fairchild Channel F, which was released in 1976 and the first video game system to use cartridges. In 1977, the wildly successful Atari 2600 was released, Atari's first cartridge-based video game console. And let's not forget the Vectrex of 1982, the first and only home video game using vector graphics which it displayed on its own monitor.
Video gaming history isn't about a bunch of johnny-come-lately Japanese executives who sought to get rich with slickly packaged, mass market products. It's about pioneers like Ralph Baer, who, in 1967 prototyped what would become the Magnavox Odyssey. It's about visionaries wile Nolan Bushnell who founded Atari and conceived Pong in 1976.
If someone told Funcoland which is now Gamestop they could sell Zelda for 20x the value with a mint box, they still wouldn't do it.
These stores pay rent per square feet. There aren't enough people paying collector's price to cover the rent loses. I don't think even in 10-20 years.
You're free to maintain a history of video gaming, with full boxes and perfect manuals and stuff. But I think you'll agree that it's not in the game store's economic interests to turn their already cramped space into a museum..
I don't care much about packaging - I have a small apartment, and packaging both makes the games bigger and makes it slower to get them out.
What I do wish they'd focus on is selling NES and SNES games with the little plastic bits to keep dust out of them. Half of the difficulty I have in maintaining my NES/SNES collection stems from the fact that keeping dust out of the games is a perpetually losing battle.
Philip Sandifer's academic website
I was going to make nearly the same post. Shame this isn't modded up.
What was the first system to use CDROM's?
The ratio of people to cake is too big
Buy 'em for a dime apiece, stick each one in its own Zip-loc bag, then put 'em away for 20 years. At the end of that time, you ought to be able to sell them for a whole quarter!
GAME (UK games store, not sure the US has them) takes everytheing out of the casing and 'wrap' them up with a sticker holding the CD within the manual. The number of times I got a game where the CD is already marked on the data side because the asshats stickied the CD to the manual.
I've kept all of the boxes the games came in in another box, a "box of boxes" per se. Maybe I'm an abnormal person, but I tend to take care of my stuff and I could repackage my games and give them to you in a state equivalent to the day I bought it (minus the shrink wrap of course). I guess if people just took better care of their stuff this problem wouldn't exist.
I run a used games shop, we do about 25grand a month. NES and SNES games are rarely seen in a box, and when they are, we leave them that way. Genesis games, and don't ask me why, don't sell in the clamshell...I have pondered this fact for days at a time, it makes no sense. The moment I take them out of the clamshell, they sell. I just don't get it, I've always thought of the Genesis cases as actually being useful but I guess most people just don't care for them.
Atari rarely has the box, Intellivision often does have the box (go figure)...NES games don't as I said above, but they also rarely have the original plastic slip cases they came in either.
It's a mystery to be sure.
This article isn't about CONSOLE history, but rather VIDEO GAME history. Classics like Zelda, Mario, Sonic, Final Fantasy...these games ARE about video gaming history. Yeah, the systems were mass produced for the home, but that doesn't make them worse. The NES, SNES, Genesis, they aren't all that old, but that doesn't mean they still aren't integral parts to video gaming history. I'd love to see where we would be today without these systems. Not to mention that in 30 years, these systems WILL be a huge part of video gaming history. I'll reiterate, just because they are fairly recent, that doesn't make them anyless important to history.
Beg to differ...
Nolan concieved Pong in '72. Maybe you are referring to home Pong. But, that was 1975.
Maybe you just have a problem with facts (and Japanese gaming concerns).
Political correctness is the newest form of slavery.
Actually you're only mostly right. Pong was originally conceived as "Tennis for Two" at the Brookhaven National Labs in 1959. The second oldest video game was created at MIT by a computer club made up of both students and faculty, it was a space game, similar in concept to asteroids meets combat.
And the first console system was not the Magnavox Odyssey, it was the Fairchild.
This is somewhat tongue in cheek, so don't flame me off hand. But it's still interesting.
Ever think about what is REALLY killing the entertainment industries? Is it organized counterfitting? Or casual copying? Or file sharing?
Why doesn't anybody ever think of the used market as the real downfall of the entertainment industry? This is about used video games, most of which you can't get in stores anyway...but strech this out to music or movies. How many used music/movie stores are around where you live? How much business do they do? Chances are they do just as much, or maybe even more business than a normal record store.
Why is nobody talking about this? Why doesn't the RIAA do advertisements about how used sales take food out of the mouths of artists (which is MORE true than for P2P file sharing). Sure, it's legal. But the question is, is it ethical? How ethical is it to make money off of somebody elses's work..without them even getting a whiff of it?
Furthermore, this is more competition for the entertainment dollar. Spreading things even thinner.
Now, myself I'm torn on this issue. On one hand, I have a lot of pre-owned DVDs from my local movie store (buy 2 get 2 free builds your collection pretty fast). But at the same time, it really HAS to be affecting their real numbers. More-so than anything else really.
Again. Why isn't anybody talking about this?
And the first console system was not the Magnavox Odyssey, it was the Fairchild.
The Fairchild was released in 1976 while the Odyssey was released in 1972.
Think much?
WTF are you smoking?
Try this
Or this
All of those newer systems like NES, SNES, etc. are not gaming "history", they're just fancy Fairchild/A2600 systems.
I suppose you think Street Fighter is a classic historical video game, eh? Young'uns... so lame.
This isn't a problem at all. If collectors want a box and manual they're going to visit E-bay for them. Hell if anything this is driving up the value of their "investments" so they should be happy. You people sure didn't seem to mind throwing away those boxes and manuals 10 years ago.
Maybe you are referring to home Pong. But, that was 1975.
I was referring to the home version of Pong, which was released by Atari in 1976. The story was about home video consoles and games, so I tried to limit my comments to those. Sorry for not writing more clearly.
I think this should read
What's the solution, if any, to this "problem"?
$_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$b=73;$c=142;
Zelda what? Sonic huh? F,i,n,a,l Fantasy?
Classic?? Ha! Street Fighter is awesome too huh?
I think you're OK with the Mario comment as long as you're talking about battling a giant ape to get to Pauline. Otherwise you're just lame.
Bah... you're too young to know what video games are.
Spend some more time with your kids, and don't worry about things like this.
History is not just old stuff. History is everything that has happened up to the present. So yes, GTA III is just as much "history" as the original Pong.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
the condition of that pilot wings 64 box i got from some ebay mass reseller.
the crinckles and dents were impressed upon the very depths of my soul, as if someone had taken all my childhood memories and wiped their ass with them.
Most of the time, cartrige games are traded in as just the cartrige, so I don't blame the store for not having cartrige boxes. What I hate though, my local Gamestops have been doing, is throwing away Playstation boxes and manuals. Yes, the jewel cases that probably 8 times out of 10 were traded in near perfect condition. They don't have enough space for them, so they put the CDs in little sleeves in a cardboard box and just chuck the case and manual. Now that is a shame.
"What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
Um, what? Just because it's Japanese, suddenly it's not gaming history?
Is it just not old enough to be history? In case you didn't notice, the SNES and Genesis are a good two console generations in the past. The SNES was released (in the US) in 1991, and the Genesis is even older. If those consoles aren't game history, then what are they? They're certainly not the present of games!
I guess we should just ignore the last 200 or so years of US History, too. After all, all the important stuff happened in the 1770's, right? Everyone should just study the founding fathers and then skip right to the present; nothing important happened in between, after all.
Maybe you're just trolling, but I have the sinking suspicion that you're actually serious, which scares me.
hell, I'd be happy if I could get NEW games in new condition. especially game boy games. those stupid little boxes are always getting crushed...
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
Save your self-righteous rants for somewhere else.
When does something become history? In 5 years, will the SNES be part of history? How about 10? Surely at least in another 20 years, you'd have to classify the Genesis and SNES as 'history.'
Now, my point: what the hell is wrong with starting to preserve it *now*, before it's gone? There are some very, very good games on all of those systems. It'd be a shame to lose bits and pieces of them forever.
Similarly, as someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, baseball cards were just little pieces of cardboard too. I certainly don't expect the packaging from video games to appreciate in value as much as a Joe Namath card, maybe there's still some reason to hang onto this stuff while it's still *possible* to hang onto it.
You're probably too old to appreciate all of videogame history, anyway. I consider myself lucky to have gotten into video gaming when I did -- old enough to appreciate the real classics, young enough that I'm not afraid of new things. (sorry, cheap shot)
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
How old are you? Seriously.
Those systems are just newer clones of the Fairchild/A2600 system. They ain't history my friend, just the same old, same old.
It's like saying KoF is a historical video game. Well, it might be OK, but fighting games were pioneered by much earlier "historical" works.
You might have grown up in the arcade with Street Fighter, but at that point you had already missed all the true historical works.
When does something become history? In 5 years, will the SNES be part of history? How about 10? Surely at least in another 20 years, you'd have to classify the Genesis and SNES as 'history.'
They will never be part of history other than "they sold lots and made money". The systems themselves and the games that ran on them were nothing special, just clones of earlier work. And quite boring I might add.
I've heard reports of these older used games making up 5-10% of a store's sales. This may seem small...but think about how little the stores give when you trade in these games. The relative profit on a $3 Genesis game is far higher than for a $20 Game Boy Advance game.
Why, then, are they getting rid of these games? One of the biggest reasons is space. These cartridge games take up a fair amount of room that newer CD-based games just don't. If they don't have enough room for the actual games, where the heck would they put the boxes? It's far easier for the stores to just toss the packaging. Depressing, but that's the way it is...
This one still puzzles me - the Dreamcast isn't that old, and I know there's still demand for DC games. Oh well...
Goo goo g'joob.
Um, sorry but you're wrong.
Yes, there is newer stuff that is/will be part of history but most of what you see isn't.
Wolfenstein 3D is an example of a newer historical game. The first true 3D-style FPS. It changed everything. And when Doom came out, my goodness, we had never seen anything like that before.
GTA III isn't anything special. It's just yet another FPS. It may be fun to play, but it ain't historical.
Um, what? Just because it's Japanese, suddenly it's not gaming history?
That's not something that I said or implied.
Is it just not old enough to be history? In case you didn't notice, the SNES and Genesis are a good two console generations in the past. The SNES was released (in the US) in 1991, and the Genesis is even older. If those consoles aren't game history, then what are they?
They are just outdated gaming consoles. For something to have historical significance, it needs to be more than just out-of-production. It needs to have broken new ground. It needs to have been a pioneering or revolutionary effort. The N64, SNES, and Genesis don't fit the definition of historical.
I guess we should just ignore the last 200 or so years of US History, too. After all, all the important stuff happened in the 1770's, right? Everyone should just study the founding fathers and then skip right to the present; nothing important happened in between, after all.
You need to get a sense of what's important. Of course you teach kids about the Wright brothers, but you don't wax poetic about the development of the Cessna 140a. You have lessons about the invention of the Polio vaccine, but you don't spend class time teaching about the development of Preparation H. You teach kids about the Ford Model A and Model T and how they changed our society, but you don't have lessons about the Dodge Omni and the Chevy Cavalier.
Maybe you're just trolling, but I have the sinking suspicion that you're actually serious, which scares me.
What scares me is that you actually can't recognize the difference between historical technology and technology which is just outdated.
P.S. The very fact that you would mark me as a "Foe" simply because you disagree with something I wrote speaks volumes about you.
The fact that you think GTA III is an FPS indicates to me that you have no idea what you're talking about.
The fact that you think it's not a FPS indicates to me that you are too young to fully grasp the concepts we are discussing.
That's not something that I said or implied.
Perhaps I just misunderstood. When you said "Video gaming history isn't about a bunch of johnny-come-lately Japanese executives who sought to get rich with slickly packaged, mass market products." I mentally emphasized the Japanese instead of the rest of it. After all, there's plenty of American companies mass marketing games, but you specifically mentioned Japanese. Yes, the Sega and Nintendo are Japanese companies, but I don't see how that's relevant.
They are just outdated gaming consoles. For something to have historical significance, it needs to be more than just out-of-production. It needs to have broken new ground. It needs to have been a pioneering or revolutionary effort. The N64, SNES, and Genesis don't fit the definition of historical.
The problem is that gaming is more evolutionary than revolutionary. I actually agree with you that major jumps have more historical significance, but that doesn't mean that the fluid increases are completely insignificant historically.
You need to get a sense of what's important. Of course you teach kids about the Wright brothers, but you don't wax poetic about the development of the Cessna 140a. You have lessons about the invention of the Polio vaccine, but you don't spend class time teaching about the development of Preparation H. You teach kids about the Ford Model A and Model T and how they changed our society, but you don't have lessons about the Dodge Omni and the Chevy Cavalier.
Yes, some things are more important than others. I definitely agree with you on that. My issue is that you assume that the SNES is the Preparation H and not the Polio vaccine. It doesn't have to be an either or issue; it's more likely something in between. Surely, in the 7 or so years of the SNES era, there was some sort of historical event or game. In my mind, something like the Atari Lynx or TG16 is more comparable to the Chevy Cavalier. As far as I know, they had very little impact on how games are played today.
What scares me is that you actually can't recognize the difference between historical technology and technology which is just outdated.
P.S. The very fact that you would mark me as a "Foe" simply because you disagree with something I wrote speaks volumes about you.
What really set me off was that your original post seemed to be saying that only the original gaming machines were history and that everything else is unimportant in the grand scheme of things. The Japanese comment didn't help either. Now that it's apparent your intent was otherwise, I can see that I might have been a bit rash.
Personally, if the game rocks, and the packaging is something special, I'll save it. I've got a couple games who's boxes I've saved. Plus, if you have the storage space to spare (I keep them in my back closet) it's a good way to keep everything together, especially for someone like myself who's organizational skills are all based off of the "pile system" (i'm sure you're familiar with it).
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Save your self-righteous rants for somewhere else.
Why? Because you don't like the competition?
When does something become history? In 5 years, will the SNES be part of history? How about 10? Surely at least in another 20 years, you'd have to classify the Genesis and SNES as 'history.'
Something doesn't become "history" just by being old. For something to have historical significance, it has to break new ground, change society, or otherwise have a profound impact on the world in which we live. Pong fits that description. SNES does not. You don't seem to understand the difference between "history" and "nostalgia."
You're probably too old to appreciate all of videogame history, anyway. I consider myself lucky to have gotten into video gaming when I did -- old enough to appreciate the real classics, young enough that I'm not afraid of new things. (sorry, cheap shot)
I used to spend my lunch hours in the early 80's playing video games in arcades. And last night I spent my evening playing the Unreal Tournament 2004 demo. It is because of my age that I can recognize the difference between something that's truly historical versus something that's simply out-of-production. I know why the MITS Altair 8800 personal computer is an important part of history while the Canon CAT is not. I know why Wolfenstien 3D and Doom are classic video games while Anachronox never will be. You don't need to apologize for recognizing that I'm older than you -- just for being so prejudiced as to think that anyone over 30 is "afraid of new things."
I mentally emphasized the Japanese instead of the rest of it. After all, there's plenty of American companies mass marketing games, but you specifically mentioned Japanese. Yes, the Sega and Nintendo are Japanese companies, but I don't see how that's relevant.
I was referring to the cultural difference between the original visionary inventors and the anything-for-profit mentality of many Japanese firms.
My issue is that you assume that the SNES is the Preparation H and not the Polio vaccine. It doesn't have to be an either or issue; it's more likely something in between.
It probably is somewhere in-between. But I just don't view SNES as something that rises to the level of importance that justifies treasuring game manuals and boxes. No, it should not be ignored or written off, but neither should it be enshrined.
Now that it's apparent your intent was otherwise, I can see that I might have been a bit rash.
And that just got you on my "friends" list -- regardless of our differences of opinion.
If you go into any EB or GameStop to sell them a mint used game, complete with box and instructions, they'll probably give you the same price as someone who only has a cart which looks like it's been through a war zone.
I'm guessing if anyone cares enough about games to keep the manual and box, they know better then to go to one of these stores, and instead sell/trade them over the internet.
If you're looking for older games in good condition with boxes and manuals, your best bet is not in a chain store. Especially once this generation is over--in order to make room for used bins of PS2, GC, and XBOX games, NES, SNES, and Genesis will be phased out of stores.
Also, try to make friends with an employee at a game store--they'll hold boxes and manuals for you if you're nicer to them than the average customer.
I can't speak for all stores and much of this has already been touched upon by everyone else, but I can't seem to shut up so...
In the case of older games (which includes N64 titles - maybe you've lost track of time, but the system launched well over 5 years ago), they don't get traded in with the boxes and the instructions to begin with. In fact, the cart themselves often times look like the owner stored them in a ditch in their backyard - literally. Dirt caked, labels peeled, etc. It's ridiculous the condition of the games I see float through my store, both old and new generation titles.
Another issue is space, as some have already pointed out. As it is, there's hardly any room to keep loose cartridges on the sales floor, much less boxes two to three times their size. A lot of people don't realize this, but most stores don't have some vast amount of storage space off the sales floor to hold all of this stuff. For instance, used Game Boy Advance games often DO arrive in their original packaging, manuals and all. Unfortunately, in my store in particular, there is simply no room to store these things. I can't deny that it sucks for the customer, particularly collectors. But it's not in my store's best interest to keep every box and manual that gets traded in or sold to us.
On the rare occasion that a mint condition NES/SNES/GENESIS game does come through, we do indeed keep the box and manual, but this is rare. For instance, a mint copy of Super Metroid rolled into town and it was a reason to celebrate indeed.
Finally, as far as him touching on the rumor of some places not taking back games/consoles/accessories for Dreamcast and older games...my store in particular stopped taking those games back as of today, actually. Other stores will carry them, but I'd expect to see them phased out in the near future. So it looks like Ebay and smaller, more specialized shops for that kind of thing.
If the NES was considered "historical" why was there just a museum exhibition dedicated to it? Level-X just ended its showing at the Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Photography. I was lucky enough to get to check it out last month when I was there. Tons of history - and lots of boxes!
"Altogether, 1,200 titles were produced for the system. Remarkably, a sample of each one can be found at ``Level X,'' together with 50 or so different consoles and the accessories made for them."
They had pristine boxes for each and every one of those games, and perfect condition consoles, too. Maybe it's not thought of as such anymore, but boxes and manuals used to be art. Sure, the 8-bit character on the screen didn't look like much (remember NES Link?), but the box/manual art was great, so it was easy to imagine him as something more heroic. These days manuals are barely one step above photocopies - black and white inside and nothing much worth looking at. I remember full-color manuals being so nice that it was cool to look through them and read about the game while you waited for your turn to play.
When's the last time anybody did that with a current-gen game?
"Is it really so hard to maintain a policy of keeping the product in similar condition to how it's traded in or maybe even stop accepting bare games altogether to give your customers more reason to take care of their games to retain value?"
Having worked at an EB for three years, I'll go ahead and state the obvious. Generally, the people who take care of games keep them. Those who don't tend to trade them in relatively early in the lifespan of the game. What happens is something of a trickle-down effect; as games drop in price, those who couldn't afford to buy them in the first place (kids, or families who don't put as much financial priority on video games) end up buying them. Lather, rinse, repeat.
With regards to game stores taking care of them, I can only speak for the store I work at. I've already mentioned that the people who take care of these games don't trade them in or already have. That means the conditions of the games these stores get is usually fairly subpar. I remember a few times when we would get an older system and games in immaculate condition. Dave isn't finding those because the game collectors, who would visit our store at least once or twice a week, bought those first. What's more is that if there are two copies of Starfox 64 on the shelf, and one is in top condition and the other is not, which is more likely to go first since they're under the same SKU?
Frankly, there's a lot of extremely obvious reasons why these games are not in the best of shape, some of which I'd provided. Why Dave didn't think this through before he wrote his article is beyond me. Maybe he thinks, quite mistakingly, that Steve Morgan of EB or some member of the gaming store echlon will read his article and suddenly agree with him. But if you're making the same amount of profit whether they are in good condition or poor condition (and these stores do), then why change the behavior? Moreover, the people who take care of games usually know they can get a heck of a lot more than $0.50 from EB for a mint condition game.
Your best bet, Dave, is to buy off of eBay and inevitably pay more for a game that is in mint condition. Surprise: you pay for what you get for. What's probably discouraging for Dave, though, is that if he hasn't thought of the obvious reasons why this has occured, he's probably not thought ahead to what's going to happen when the disc generation hits the same age that cartridges are now. Keepem while you gotem.
Duh. Only nerds care about the packaging/manuals of their videogames. I happen to have kept all the boxes and manuals of my old games, but for the average people this is just stupid, as they don't give a living fuck about the box, and even less about the manual.
....And you're either too old to understand anything other than to what you have already become accustomed, or you are a young person pretending to be so.
You remind me of people I used to play arcade games with in the Stargate Defender days. None of them plays games any more, they just talk about how they used to play Defender after school. That does not make them truer gamers than children and adults playing today's games. It makes them ex-gamers with no relevant insights that can't be had by growing senile.
I am not the original poster above.
Grow up, old-timer.
Street Fighter has its place in video game history. That is a fact. Even Mortal Kombat, a game that I despise greatly, has its place in video game history.
Go back to fiddling with the knobs on your black and white TV if you like, gramps. We are talking about video games, a TECHNOLOGICAL field of interest. Technology and ideas don't stagnate along with the people that wither away around them, they move forward as suits their USERS. That newer systems come mostly from Japan just shows that the Japanese have a vested interest in expanding the appreciation of this media form, which is more than can be said about your AC posts about the issue (which are quite clear to identify as yours, BTW).
Your insults are not welcome. They can be likened to what Bushnell et al. probably encountered from people who would rather not have seen the birth of computer sciece being applied to video games in the first place, you hypocrite.
To wit, crusty: There is a distinction between first-person games and third-person games. Learn it, then come back and we can talk.
The more posts of yours that I read, the more I understand how in-tune with gamers you really are. Sly devil.
You know exactly what lies to say and in what tone to speak them to make real gamers want to throttle your neck. And by claiming to possess a firmer grasp of understanding than the rest of us, you simply beg for correction, an itch which most slashdotters are all too happy to scratch.
Fuck you, luddite troll.
Something becomes part of history just by being. I could resort to all sorts of humanistic reasons to prove that this can be applied universally, but that isn't necessary. A simple understanding that historical importance is relative to the historian should suffice.
Also understand that you cannot correctly and absolutely state that what is significant to one person is worthless. That would be nonsensical and futile. If Mr. Gamerdad thinks game boxes from the early to mid-90s are important, so be it for him. If they aren't to you (and for that matter used game retailers and customers), so be that as well. But don't mis-define history for us, please.
Step 1: Buy 'em for a dime apiece, stick each one in its own Zip-loc bag, then put 'em away for 20 years.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit!
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Something becomes part of history just by being.
No, it becomes part of the past. I'm sure some guy named Bob put lug nuts on a Ford Escort once, but that doesn't mean that he's part of automotive history.
If Mr. Gamerdad thinks game boxes from the early to mid-90s are important, so be it for him. If they aren't to you (and for that matter used game retailers and customers), so be that as well.
That's fine, but Gamerdad is proclaiming it "shocking" that game retailers and customers don't share his beliefs about the importance of the boxes and documentation.
But don't mis-define history for us, please.
It's not me who is misdefining "history." Gamerdad wrote "It's the systematic destruction of our gaming history." No, it's just people throwing out old boxes and manuals.
Someone needs their diaper changed.
It's all the same thing yo. You're kidding yourself if you think different.
Which more or less defines Nintendo under Hiroshi Yamauchi.
On the other hand, while the systems themselves are not necessarily of extremely historical value, there are (of course) certain games from those systems that DO justify their historical value. For example: The original Zelda (arguably) pioneered (and in many ways remains) a completely different type of adventure game. Some games have come close, but no games (until recently) seriously compared with the graphical based "slasher" adventure of Zelda. Likewise with Metroid, which might be considered the first third-person "shooter" game. Not to mention Tetris, which pretty much single-handedly revived the idea of puzzle games. I don't mean to necessarily justify Nintendo as the be-all-and-end-all of video game history... Merely that they do have some claim to fame, if only thanks primarily to Miyamoto's early days, and one Alexei Pajitnov. (On the other hand, while I am familiar with the more popular arcade and Atari games, I probably would not doubt that there are a few that fit the bill replacing the innovation of these few...)
Perhaps the only Nintendo system to outright deserve historical fame (if perhaps begrudgingly) might be the NES, if only for the fact that it revived the otherwise dying American video game industry (That doesn't mean Super Mario Brothers is at all historically innovative, except perhaps in passing). I do agree however, that the SNES was probably less innovative than might otherwise be expected. The NES and the games that it brought to the table were arguably more innovative (if not necessarily more polished and refined) then Nintendo's more recent offerings.
Feel free to disagree with my post, however, as I'm quite open to a discussion...
Waaaaaaaa... Adults can have civilized conversations.
Come back when you trade in your scooter.
I still have my Ocaraina of time collector's box (it's shiney, yay). I used to have a bunch of others, but you tend to get rid of tons of crap when you move. Piles and piles of crap.
A GameStop store here has a copy of Ogre Battle for the N64 for 25 bucks but has no box or manual. Complete versions are avalable on Ebay for nearly twice that much.
We dont have space for the old stuff that sells for a LOT less than a newer used game. No one in their right mind is going to pay 30.00 for a copy just because its in an original box. That stuff would sit there collecting dust. Mint condition stuff is what E-bay is for, not retail places.
The stuff moves so infrequently and there is such a small trade in value for it, we just recently stopped taking it in. Yes, thats right, as of today, the location I work at no longer accepts 8-bit NES, Sega Genesis, Super NES, Sega Dreamcast games or peripherals. The stuff just doesnt sell. Maybe they will keep doing it at the larger metro areas, but our store just doesnt sell enough of the stuff to keep it here.
I am not happy about it. People would bring in their broken NES, Sega, and the like and we would tell them we couldnt take it, they just told us to throw it away, I liked getting a broken Sega a month, taking it home and fiddling with it to see if I could fix it, which I could sometimes. Oh well.
Times they are a changin.
This has to be the worst post ever on slashdot and no, I am not trolling. It's not even a story it's a whine. So, retailers are now responsible for destroying videogame history? Why has it become retailers who are burdened with old stock and/or trading games to make sure the cases are present and in fantastic condition. We're not talking about Infocom games which had elaborate packaging and lots of goodies, we're talking about N64 and Genesis games! Get real. The only people who care about packaging would be anal retentive collectors who use the fact that the game has it's original packaging to drive up the price. Nobody cares anymore about packaging, or cases anymore. The only reason I even have any of my cases for my computer or home system games is to prevent the games from getting scratched. I am not concerned about the packaging and most people are not either. Whenever I buy a cd now I download the music to my hard drive and THROW AWAY THE CASE and put the cd in my cd jukebox.
"Jeremy, you need to get to an internet cafe and cut and paste some appropriate sentiments about me from the world wide
I mean, i miss the big pc boxes too, it was sad to see them go out of style.
peace out.
~~~
Many Thanks,
Luke
Your face, meet my dick.
But I just don't view SNES as something that rises to the level of importance that justifies treasuring game manuals and boxes.
;)
The original comment about preserving gaming history was presumably made by the person who submitted the story. So it's from their point of view that the SNES is important. It's important in their gaming history. Just like the NES and Master System and MegaDrive are for me, because that's what I used to talk about in school, swap games with friends for, save up to buy, spend hours on etc. This is also why the 1980 KE-55 Toyota Corolla will always be one of the greatest cars in history. Because it was my first.
I'm curious how old you are? I mean I can recognise the historical significance of older hardware, but they're not going to enter into my definition of gaming history when I'm thinking about preserving the box art of games I used to play. Or to put it more simply - did you ever own a SNES?
Hell, all anybody has to do is go to Akihabara. I'm sure you could still find Donkey Kong with box and manual in good condition. Considering that the game came out over 20 years ago on the Famicon, I'm surprised to see boxed Famicon games as much as I do.
However, it's true that there are a lot of games in Japan that are just a bare cart/CD. But, you'd be surprised how much you can find "complete". Actually, I know of a store close to me (Japan) that still has new in shrink Intellivision games.
For me, I like having the boxes and manual, etc. I recently bought a famicon (never had one) and buying the japanese NES games with at least a box and a booklet make the experience that much better. Most of the games I had or played on the NES long ago, but it's nice to re-live the experience and see how the US and JPN games were different.
I realize that the article was just talking about the US. I doubt that travelling to another country to pick up some mint-in-box games wouldn't be entirely worth it, but at least there are places that do care about selling used games in the closest-to-original possible condition.
- akamichi
In 100% of situations, I prefer to have the data on my computer where it takes zero cubic space, than in a box which takes up much-needed space. All this stuff is on the internet. And when I view the downloaded box art, it would look alot nicer on my 36" television (primary monitor) than it on a 5" cardboard piece-o-trash box.
Paper is obsolete.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
The solution is to get a life.
I knew that thing was too small to be a thumb.
It's important in their gaming history.
;)
What he wrote was It's the systematic destruction of our gaming history. It may be important to him, but calling it "our gaming history" is a bit presumptuous.
I'm curious how old you are?
42
Or to put it more simply - did you ever own a SNES?
No. I went right from the arcade games to the computer games. I never really did the console thing (with the exception of a Vectrex). But, despite never having been into consoles, I can still recognize what has real historical significance. How the author could be "shocked" that people threw away old boxes and manuals for SNES/N64/Genesis games is a mystery to me.
This is also why the 1980 KE-55 Toyota Corolla will always be one of the greatest cars in history. Because it was my first.
Then you might be "shocked" to learn this: There are people who have thrown away owners' manuals, sales brochures, test reports, and even window stickers from 1980 Toyota Corollas. See, that's where I have a problem with the author's comments. You get that the 1980 Toyota Corolla has a place in your heart, but you probably don't really expect the rest of the world to treasure them like Faberge eggs.
Wow, color me impressed that you finally figured out how to uncheck the "Post Anonymously" button. Now get back to work, peon, you'll find my balls require extra attention today.
Hey needle-dick, I have posted nothing anonymously in this thread. You're just too much of a fucktard to recognize that multiple people hate you and that I'm just one of them.
By the way, you don't have balls.
Those people who are most likely to take care of game manuals and packaging are also the least likely to sell those games later on. The people who maintain stuff like that are in it for the long haul.
Quit slacking, the left one needs attention too.
Why is it that every loser who has some esoteric interest in dead products uses Slashdot to lament the demise of said dead products?
If you want a goddamn 1977 Ford Pinto II, do you complain when the local Ford dealership doesn't have one available in mint condition?
If you wanna be a collector, fine. But there is a reason companies aren't making that shit anymore. There are like five of you who are interested in buying a NES cartridge in its original box in mint condition. Are you really surprised there isn't a factory somewhere pumping them out? Or that the local Best Buy doesn't have a dedicated aisle for it?