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NYC Crosswalk Buttons are Inoperative
cdneng2 writes "NY Times has an article that New
York crosswalk push buttons are actually ineffective.
Apparently, New York City deactivated most of the pedestrian
buttons long ago with the emergence of computer-controlled
traffic signals. From the article, 'More than 2,500 of the 3,250
walk buttons that still exist function essentially as mechanical
placebos, city figures show.' Well, apparently New York city isn't
the only city like this. I guess the answer lies in the same
reason why people press
the elevator button more than once."
Surprisingly enough, NY doesn't have any intersections listed in the top 10 most dangerous intersections list, compiled by State Farm.
However, you can find the 24 most dangerous intersections in NY, as compiled by the NYPD here.
Either way, crossing the street isn't the safest thing in the world.
...don't question it!!!
The buttons don't work
Everybody knows the more times you push it, the faster it goes. Geez.
- Sherman
Just like the Open (and Close) Door buttons on most of the London Underground. I see tourists pounding those open buttons on the Central Line all the time. It does nothing but they seem to feel better.
It's like Ctrl-Alt-Delete for the general public! ;)
Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Gates M'dna wgah'nagl fhtagn.
This has to be a lie, the government would never waste our money and mislead us!
I know it, and I still do it sometimes. Perhaps it's because I just like pushing buttons... like this button right he NO CARRIER
I have something in common with Stephen Hawking...
The ones in Herndon, VA (maybe that should be singular rather than plural) seems to actually work and many in Knoxville, TN will not give you a walk signal unless you pressed the button. But the last time I was in Manhattan, about 2 yrs ago it did not seem to have any effect.
Then again, the "walk" signals did not have much effect on the pedestrians in Manhattan either.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
The answer is here finally!! Because the button doesn't work
If you lost your job today, don't despair. You may die tomorrow anyway.
Downtown SLC is the same way. They even have LED displays that count down the time until the light changes. It goes from yellow to red when it starts getting close to 0. It also makes a very audible beeping noise as well. If it's made it safer to walk downtown or not I have no clue.
Hold up, wait a minute, let me put some pimpin in it
I didn't know anyone in NY who waited for a the Walk Signal to turn before start walking. NewYorkers are best at finding the shortest possible route to their destination. And I dont blame them. It is pace of life they experience.
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
The Slashdot "Submit Story" button is also just a placebo. "We just post what we want, and we put some user's name on them, " says Malda.
Computer-controlled traffic lights work a lot better than the old-fashioned timed system. (well, unless the detector screws up, but that's rare) So allowing people to interrupt the sequence would do little good. At the same time, you don't want people standing on one of those 700 crosswalks which will never volunteer a "walk" sign for ages.
So, to make sure that the people use the button in the places they need to, it's easier to leave the buttons on all the intersections. Otherwise, people might not think to use the button when it's necessary, at least not without a lot of time and prompting.
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
I'm from the UK, and went on holiday to Boston in the summer - It didn't seem like the buttons there worked, and most people crossed the street anyway, even though I saw a few times an accident nearly happened because of this.
:-)
This idea seems like it should cause a lot of accidents, but maybe the traffic is regulated well enough, I don't know.
In the UK, we are so used to pressing the buttons, and most people will not cross without waiting for the lights to change. This seems to be completely different to the way things happen in Boston. By the end of our holiday, I was getting bored of waiting, and took the Bostonian approach to crossing the road - don't bother with the buttons - to the disgust of my mum
"same reason why people press the elevator button more than once.
And the same reason people press the reload or submit button more than once... When things don't show any evidence that they're doing what they're supposed to do.
My entire life has been a lie!
Actually, lots of traffic signals here in Germany have touch-sensitive Buttons, which can't really be pressed. You just touch them and they notice the change in temperature.
Since you don't get any feedback, it doesn't really satisfy and I'm always left with the feeling that it didn't register the request at all.
Fleur de Sel
Funny, then, that I was just reading this article on a placebo switch that inexplicably worked!
http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/magic-story.html
The only surefire protection against Microsoft infections is abstinence. - The Onion
The real reason is that almost all NYC traffic lights are on a timer anyway. Unlike most areas of the country that have on-demand lights that are sensitive to traffic and keep green for the major roadway, if you wait a minute the light will change anyway. So why interrupt the rare possible synchronized goodness on a Manhattan avenue for the impatient pedestrian?
The downside to this timer approach is that you often wait for nobody at red lights at 3am. Stooopid lazy NYC planners.
Either that or the trigger antennas that they would need to place under the roadway can't take the winter punishment.
--dv
Insert witty saying or aphorism here.
Which is the point, of course. People do feel better if they think they've "done something" about any problem - even one as trivial as opening the currently-closed door. Passively waiting for something to happen doesn't come easily to many of us...
:-) In fact, it's more likely that the time-of-last-press is one of the inputs to the algorithm, with earlier presses having a priority. So the more you press, the less chance you have of getting a busy lift :-))
What I find odd are those who hit the 'summon elevator' button more than once - A lift algorithm isn't going to take into account the number of times you press, and I doubt the buttons are pressure-sensitive
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
Carrie: "Life... I started thinking about Paris, and how love AAHGHHHRGHH!!!"
-- taxi cab grinds Carrie into the asphalt, and the credits begin to roll ---
Yes, my girl friend made me watch that damn show for an entire year. The demise of that vile, high-priced sitcom has filled me with a joy not felt since childhood.
There was something like that in a Kurt Vonnegut novel whose title has slipped my mind. Something about an automated spaceship with only two controls: a START button, and a STOP button (the latter isn't connected to anything.) The point being that humans feel better when they think they have control over their fate.
Actually, it's probably a moot point - I've never met a New Yorker who actually waits for the light.
At some intersections in Toronto, not only does the walk button work, but unless it's pressed, the walk signal never lights up. (Kind of a pain when the button isn't right at the corner and has a lot of snow around it.) It would be nice if they'd mark the "Cars Prefered" crossings to let people know.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I was once in a rather rocky relationship with a girl which ended when I told her not to bother pressing the button.
"It doesn't do anything, these juntions are automated."
"That is exactly the kind of cynical attitude I'm absolutely fed up with. You have no faith in anything."
She stomped off across the road like an enraged frogger, dodging the still flowing traffic.
Crosswalk buttons are just a signal to drivers that a person is planning to cross the street. In big, pedestrian cities like New York, you don't need the buttons because there's almost always someone waiting to cross the street, and drivers know this. In my life, the only place I've made a point to use the buttons is in the suburban area where I live now, because a person standing on a streetcorner may or may not be waiting to cross the street, and the drivers are really bad at yielding to pedestrians.
I could kill you, sure, but I could only make you cry with these words
I don't believe that any of those buttons work.
I also belive that at the gas station, Regular, Plus and Premium Unleaded all go to the same tank underground.
Coke and Pepsi are all made at the same factory, with a little more sugar going into Pepsi.
I also think my dog is trying to control my brain, the way he looks at me I can just tell he wishes to destroy me...
"Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
A guy I know was in charge of a medium-sized office. He was forever plagued by the women asking him to turn the thermostat up during the winter (the guys saying "turn it down, we're dying in here"). When the office was remodeled, he had a new thermostat installed in a closet, and had the old one unconnected. He put the biggest complainer "in charge" of that thermostat, and never had a problem since. True story.
There is an intersection in the outskirts of Helsinki, Finland, where the push button works even worse. This is an intersection between two pretty big roads with major traffic, and there's a standard traffic light cycle going from "green for road A" to "green for road B", etc. If you are a pedestrian walking in the direction of either road, you need to push the button, and will eventually get a green light at the same time as the drivers on the same road. Now, guess what: the only way the button affects the lights is that you get a green light the next time it's possible -- if you don't push the button, the cycle is exactly the same except that the pedestrian light is red all the time. So the button does nothing but you need to push it to cross legally.
There was in town, until just a few years ago a fairly busy intersection that had a crosswalk and a very old button setup, it would when pressed within 5 or so seconds change the light, and would continue to as long as it was pressed, when we were kid we used to hold traffic up just for the fun of it, but at other times, you could time cars, press the button and watch them schreech to a halt.
"I also belive that at the gas station, Regular, Plus and Premium Unleaded all go to the same tank underground."
Actually, sir, according to a very reputable gas supplier that I know, many gas stations do NOT purchase higher octane fuel. It is far from a preposterous notion, in fact it is a reality at many, many gas stations.
It's like Ctrl-Alt-Delete for the general public! ;)
...or voting...?
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
To press the pedestrian buttons as you walk past...
... I can't help it!
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Actually, according to the article, those buttons aren't taken down in an effort to SAVE money, not waste it. At one point in time they did work, but because of the changes in technology (i.e. changes for emergency vehicles) and traffic patterns, these buttons turned out to be more a hassle then a benefit. But at least they do provide a somewhat "placebo" effect; that is, I am more likely to stay put at that corner on the off-chance that it does work rather than hastily trying to cross against traffic, thereby jeopardizing myself and oncoming traffic.
Linux at home
In Nanaimo, BC, Canada, the crosswalk buttons work... kinda.
Except for crosswalks (where there is no cross street), all the buttons do is turn on the walk signal when the light turns green. They don't change the timing any. Thanks a lot, public works, I could've figured it out myself.
To make matters more interesting, one of the crosswalks takes so long to change that whoever pressed the button has usually jaywalked by the time it changes.
Now on the flip side of things, for those who live in the boroughs, Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, SI, if you take a good old trip to city hall and the places where the money is flowing what do you find? Operating buttons, clean streets, subways with bathrooms, and spikes to keep those pigeons from pooping all over the place. The boroughs... What are you kidding?
MoFscker
I think the reason that there is even a "Door Close" button on elevators is for the firefighters to gain full control of the elevator.
If you notice in elevators (at least in the U.S.) there is a keyslot where you can switch the elevator from Normal to Off or Fire mode. In Fire mode, the elevator doors don't open until you press the door-open button and they don't close until you press the door-close button.
So, the door close button doesn't normally work, but it's there for a reason.
Isn't that a little obvious? I mean, do ANY of those buttons work anymore?
Of course they work, just press it a few more times....
http://use.perl.org
This is why you must look for the octane label, instead of just the word Premium. Mislabeling the octane of a gasoline for sale is a big time violation of the law.
So let me get this straight, there is a collection of buttons around New York city that are not connected to anything, and are waiting for some enterprising geek to hack into something useful... What are we waiting for??
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
In England, we have these gutless pedestrian crossings which are too scared to stop traffic if they detect cars approaching, so they wait until there's no traffic around and only then activate the pedestrian sequence.
:p
Cowardly brits!
In Paris, many pedestrians seems to think it's shameful to cross if there are not cars coming from both directions, the faster the better!
What do you know about World Politic? Find out in this quiz
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Cecil Adams has the Straight Dope on what these things do when they work.
On the subject of the second article, I live in downtown San Mateo myself, and am surprised that so many buttons are non-operative. But some that I use do indeed provide a longer time to cross. They also will give you the walk signal, while if you don't press the button, you don't get it. So many of these buttons in downtown San Mateo do actually do something. My guess is that most of the downtown ones don't do anything, but the ones along El Camino Real (one side of downtown) do actually work.
In Cleveland, a large number of crossing signals are synchronized with the stoplights, which are timed, and there's no walk button at all. I know of at least one walk button, however, whose behavior is rather strange: If someone pushes the button, then a period of time goes by, the light changes, and the walk sign illuminates. If nobody pushes the button, then eventually the light will change, but the don't walk sign stays lit. Evidently, you're jaywalking unless you push the button, even if the light changes to be in your favor!
On a related note, ever notice how the "door close" button in most elevators does absolutely nothing? The button in the elevator where I work actually does function properly, letting you send yourself on your way about 6 seconds more quickly than without. If you're standing right by the panel, but you don't push the button - which everyone in the building knows will get you there sooner - everyone else starts shifting around uncomfortably, waiting for you to hurry up and push it. (I've actually seen one professor push the door open in an effort to squeeze another 15ms or so out of it!) But in the next building over, you can pound on the button, hold it in, kick it, or whatever, and the door doesn't close any faster than usual.
A friend from Vermont came to visit last week. When he heard the signal chirping, he asked me what it was for. I expained that the signal chirps so that blind people will know when the signal changes. He said, "Wow, that's awfully odd. In Vermont, we don't let blind people drive!"
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
I had for years misunderstood just what cross walk buttons do until I actually worked in traffic engineering. Pedestrian buttons essentially do the same thing for pedestrian cross-walks that the in-road detectors do for automobiles: they tell the local traffic light controller that there is a pedestrian waiting to use the cross walk and that the pedestrian phase in the traffic signals timing plan should be used during the next cycle.
If no pedestrian is present at the cross walk and the button is not hit, that plan will not be used and as a result the timing of the lights during the next cycle will be somewhat different than if a pedestrian were present.
There does seem to be an informal sense among pedestrians that pressing the button should cause the ped signal to activate sooner, since they are there and requesting service, but that is not the case. The only thing pressing the button changes is whether that special ped phase cycle is used or not.
The real need for the buttons in the first place is that, while most contemporary vehicle detection schemes are based on the electromagnetic properties of automobiles, most normal pedestrians are not constructed of massive chunks of ferrous metals and so have little effect on these devices. A car announces its presence simply by being there, a human being must make a little extra effort to push a button.
What I get from the headline (I'll read the article after I've submitted my uninformed opinion) is that there may really be no need for those buttons in the first place. A place like New York is likely to have such massive pedestrian activity in the first place, that the buttons themselves are redundant, since nearly every signal cycle is likely to require an active pedestrian phase to serve that volume. Ped crossing buttons may be as useful in NYC as they would be on an interstate highway in the middle of Nevada, but for opposite reasons.
It is true, the engine in my car does not run well on low octane which is a problem because where I live the high octane are being fased out.
I had noticed that often after having tanked at a specific station, I often felt the engine ran worse. So after a while, I mentioned it while paying for the gas, just in a half joking way. To my surprise the guy said that they did not have enough tanks in the ground for it but they were one of the (few) stations required to have the high octane. And since not may people buy it, it was bad economy to have another tank digged down(the stations was in the center of the city).
Of course I had seen all the pamphlets saying that I just should get my engine tuned in to run on lower octane, but I'd rather drive longer to get it filled up than have it adjusted and lose the horsepower.
"same reason why people press the elevator button more than once.
And the same reason people press the reload or submit button more than once... When things don't show any evidence that they're doing what they're supposed to do.
Some elevator call buttons actually do help.
On many elevators (especially Otis), especially older ones, holding down a button in the car shortens or ends the delay before closing the door to move on to another floor. This was apparently done so that once people had entered the car and selected a floor the elevator wouldn't hang around uselessly.
Older elevators often saved on hardware by wiring the floor call buttons in parallel with the car buttons. So holding down a call button did speed up the car, by making it spend less time at other floors.
Newer, computer-driven, elevators don't usually do the door algorithm properly, even with respect to the buttons in the car. (Apparently the people who wrote some of the programs didn't research the older designs, but wrote it from scratch based on what they thought an elevator should do. Thus the elevators' algorithms are often less effective and more annoying than the older, relay-driven devices.)
Something like BART's railroad car designs. B-)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
The truth can finally be told: those buttons aren't for speeding up a light change, they're for slowing down tourists. Otherwise, we'd need zambonies cruising the avenues, scraping midwestern roadkill out of the way of productive citizens. Everyone knows that in NYC you don't change things with a pushbutton - you argue at the top of your lungs, or throw money around to confuse the opposition. Now you know why your wallet is missing after a midtown sightseeing walk: the pickpockets get their cut while you gawk upwards at the skyscrapers, as you lean on the buttons waiting for the light to change. Think of it as a toll.
If you can't jaywalk like an Olympian, stay out of the street. Take a nice cab, and remember to tip at least 20% for the man who's saving your life with every lane change. Now go home where it's safe.
--
make install -not war
in India and (?!) Quebec: countdown timers. It's not as psycho as it first sounds. People don't race to beat the timer. It just chills. everyone. out.
In India they're for the cars. No more edging through reds because you don't know when the frig it's gonna change and you wonder if you're hitting the sensor. No, right there in front of you, 15, 14, 13, 12. So also, you can get that thing out of your glove compartment, there's time. Or take a sip of that drink, bite of that sandwich. No surprises. Numbers in red for stops and in white or green for time till the next stop. You still get the yellow, so people don't race -- they have more time to gradually increase speed if they want to make it through.
In Quebec, it's for the pedestrians. Not nearly as useful IMHO. Cars can look crosswise to see how much time the pedestrians have left, but it's aimed at the pedestrians, to tell them how much time they've got. Doesn't stop people from wandering across with no time left, I've noticed.
The Indian version is the best thing I've seen. Cuts out all of the guesswork and most of the tension and cause for accidents at intersections. Genius. Of course, they're only at super busy intersections.
They also have the #2 best thing I've seen. Across the red lense of traffic lights at the busiest intersections is printed the capitals R E L A X. No foolin.
Stray voltage
Most of the crosswalks in London have large block capitals on the road which say either:orWhose function is to inform you of the most probable direction of your impending doom.
Seriously, these things are very useful when everyone is driving on the wrong side of the road.
So that means George Bush is a Professional President?
Well, yes, actually.
I hate wannabe pedants, I really do. If you're going to play at pedantry, at least get it right.
In English, the word "professional" has at least two meanings.
Firstly, it means someone who engages in a "profession" (viz., a skilled discipline) for their livelihood. An "amateur" likewise can mean someone who engages in a "profession," but as a pastime.
(Indeed, "amateur" also has more than one meaning, at teams to describe someone who is recreationally involved in a skilled discipline and at others to describe someone who performs poorly in that discipline).
Secondly, it is used to describe someone who is adept at some skilled discipline (e.g., "He plays like a professional!"). In all truth, while this second usage is common, it is subordinate to the first. The important distinguishing characteristic of a "professional" is that the profession is one's livelihood.
In common usage, you'll find both nearly as frequently. What matters, really, is what the author or speaker intended when she used it. Thus, the grandparent could very well be correct: the author meant "driving, and getting paid for it" not "driving, and doing it well." At the very least, it's a fully acceptable interpretation.
So, in other words:
You are wrong.
Please play again.
Nice try, coward.
Though to be fair, you're partially right... profession has "at least two meanings," though you conveniently omitted the one that contradicts your little rant. I quote from Websters:
1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs b : having a particular profession as a permanent career c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return
3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession
- professionally adverb
As opposed to "job":
b : a specific duty, role, or function c : a regular remunerative position
I'll let you look up remunerative for yourself... but as you can see, you can get paid for either a profession or a job... but as you'll note in the first definition above, a profession often implies far more (specialized knowledge, ethics, etc) than simply getting paid.
But that's OK, I don't take it personally. If you want, you can keep calling your fast-food job a "profession" if it makes you feel better.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
This is just picking nits, I suppose...
In Minneapolis, most newer signals don't have push buttons (which can be aggravating when there's little traffic), but they will always light up the "walk" sign. However, most older ones which have the push buttons will not light the "walk" sign unless the button was pushed. Usually, this isn't an issue, since people will just walk when the light is green, but certain problems come up.
Pedestrians wishing to cross at "T" intersections that are coming from the top of the T to one of the other corners can get stuck at a "don't walk" sign without being able to see if the traffic light is green or not. Also, there can be problems at intersections with left-turn arrows, since pedestrians get into the habit of going against "don't walk" signs when they see green. In this case they can end up walking right into the path of turning cars. Obviously, people paying attention will either wait or at least make sure no cars have their turn signals on, but I think even people accustomed to such intersections let their minds drift from time to time.
Of course, I think most road and building designers just make awful decisions regarding pedestrians most of the time anyway. I'm sure many college students have cursed their campus's architects since buildings often tend to lie right in the path you want to go. I suppose it's not a big deal in many cases, but some of these buildings are very large and can require quite an excursion to go around. Often, I suppose security is considered to be a big overriding issue, but sometimes things just get to be silly. At least one dorm at the University of Minnesota requires some students to walk about two city blocks inside to get from their rooms to the front doorall other doors are alarmed fire exits. I'm all for promoting exercise, but that's kind of ridiculous, in my opinion.
Bah, I'm wandering off-topic now...
Hmmm... and here I thought an amateur was someone who used her own home video camera in her bedroom instead of a corporate filming studio. :-)
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Recently in Hong Kong, the government installed strange black and yellow machines at the crosswalks.
They look like bathroom soap dispensers, but they're made by either Siemens or Philips. As far as I can tell there's no button on it, but on the front plate, there's a three pronged symbol (reminds me of the biohazard symbol, except the circles are further apart).
These strange machines are replacing the traditional buttons, but I can't figure out how they work. Perhaps some sort of motion detection?
Tinfoil raving: With the recent introduction of smartcard versions of the mandatory ID cards, and the recent public dissatisfaction towards the government, perhaps the government is looking for a way to keep tabs on its citizens. All the more plausible because almost all citizens carry three important things: their ID card, a cell phone, and an RFID stored-value card (used for public transport, convenience store purchases, etc.). Add to that the fact that Chinese people don't mind being drones under the man, as long as they have the right to make money, and I can totally see this happening in 10 years.
On Queens Boulevard there are some better signs.
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
I wrote much of the centralized traffic control and communications code for NYC's traffic control system back in the early nineties (a VME-based system using SVR4 UNIX and VxWorks running on 68030 processors which replaced the previous IBM system from the late '60-early'70s.) I recall a story that I heard when I was helping install the system. There was a community in NY complaining about needing to have a crosswalk signalized because people were having difficuly crossing the street. The traffic flow technically didn't require that a signal be installed, but it seemed that it would be politically expendient to do so, so a crosswalk signal was installed. There was evidently quite a bit of outrage when the citizens in the area dicovered it was a push-button activated crosswalk. You see, it turns out this was an Orthodox Jewish community - they couldn't push the button on the Sabbath (religous taboo, for those who don't understand) and thus had even more difficulty crossing to get to the synagogue. (I can't say for sure if the story was true, but it wouldn't be suprising if it was.)
When I was at uni in Plymouth there was (and still is) a very complex cross junction right outside the university. It appeared that it was entirely controlled by the push buttons for pedestrians presumably due to the high volume of pedestrians crossing the junction to get to uni. This was dispite the main route through the junction being what we brits quaintly call a dual carrageway (two lanes in each direction for the rest of you) and one of the main routes into the city center.
The really fun came if you were around the junction when traffic was really quiet. You would regulary see people jump out of their cars when they had been stuck on the main route at a red light, rush across the road, press one of the buttons to allow pedestrians to cross one of the side routes and rush back to their car knowing that by the time they got back the lights would have changed to let them drive off!
another Roadkill on the Information Superhighway