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A Taste of Qt 4
Karma Sucks writes "In 'A Taste of Qt 4', Trolltech reveals that it is positioning Qt 4 directly against Java. Qt 4 promises to be smaller and faster than its predecessors and there will be a boatload of new features including support for non-GUI applications and accessibility under Linux using Sun's ATK. More controversial is the introduction of a new and elegant foreach construct. Incidentally, for those still opposed to Qt's moc preprocessor, Havoc has some interesting comments. It is possible the idea will be adapted to provide GObject introspection in the future."
Linus Torvalds developed Linux while he was attending university in Finland. A decade later, Linux has gone nowhere but limited to geeks and obscure users.
Why has Linux not made it big time? The reason to this is because Linux developers and users do not have social lives, and most of them were beat up in high school for their interest in computers. I was a high school jock myself, and I spent a lot of time washing my school's geeks' faces in toilets and had them write my homework. The same tactic was used in college, where I managed to graduate with a 3.2 GPA all because of having someone else do my work.
Most of these geeks that I tormented in the past are now Linux developers, and the majority of them pretty much never leave their apartment except for work and maybe the odd family event, which is probably the closest they have to outside human interaction.
I currently work as a notable figure in state politics, and I make over $90,000 a year. Most of the now Linux developers I tormented barely make it past rent.
So quit trying to make Linux better, build some muscles, and get your once fellow kind to do your work, because if you do so, you'll end up like me.
"Trolltech reveals that it is positioning Qt 4 directly against Java."
And what about Mono?
OS X is closed source. This means that it is the work of the devil - its purpose is to make the end users eat babies.
Linux is the only free OS. Yes the BSD lincenses may appear more free, but as they have no restrictions, they are actually less free than the GPL. You see, restricting the end user more actually makes them more free than not putting restrictions on them. You must be a dumb luser for not understanding this.
And you obviously dont have a real job. A real job involves being a student or professional academic. You see, academics are the ones who know all about productivity - if you work for a commercial organisation you obviously do not know anything about computers. Usability is stupid. Whats wrong with the command line? If you cant use the command line then you shouldnt be using a computer. vi should be the standard word processor - you are such a luser if you want to use Word. Installing software should have to involve recompiling the kernel of the OS. If you dont know how to do this, you are a stupid luser who should RTFM. Or go to a Linux irc channel or newsgroup. After all, they are soooo friendly. If you dont know how the latest 2.6 kernel scheduling algorithm works then they will tell you to stop wasting their time, but they really are quite supportive.
Oh, and M$ is just as evil as Apple. Take LookOUT for instance. You could just as easily use Eudora. Who needs groupware anyway, a simple email client should be all we use (thats all we use as academics, why cant businesses be any different).
And trend setters - Linux is the trend setter. It may appear KDE is a ripoff from XP, but thats because M$ stole the KDE code. We all know they have GPL'ed code hidden in there somewhere (but not the things that dont work, only the things that work could possibly have GPL'ed code in it).
And Apple is the suxor because they charge people for their product. We all know that its a much better business model to give all your products away for free. If you charge for anything, then you are allied with M$ and will burn in hell.
Hmmmm, reminds me of an Iron Chef....which was it? Oh yes:
BATTLE FAGGOTRY!
The article speaks as if Java is still a real contender. It is not.
GTK Sux!!
rusty is a gay pedophile. fuck you rusty!
When KDE released version 3.2, there was a noticable speed improvment for most users. Will we get to see another good speed boost when/if KDE moves to QT4? Here's hoping.
*twitch*
The Internet Fart Chair is a chair with a cushion composed of a porous material, and it generally belongs to an internet enthusiast. When the Internet buff is too engrossed in web surfing, he often cannot bother to lift his butt out of the chair, and his farts become trapped in the porous cushion. Anyone who sits in an Internet Fart Chair can smell the farts of the owner as the pressure releases the entombed gasses. Worse than that, however, the Fart Chair releases gasses in a slow process as well, leaving a slight smell of farts in the air for many days after the last fart has been forced into the foam.
But why worry about Fart Chair? Once the user gets accustomed to the smell of his own farts, the aroma can become quite pleasurable and even evoke a sense of pride and accomplishment. The answer is quite simple. Internet enthusiasts -- let's be frank -- will often need as much on their side as possible if they are to ever have success with the opposite sex. One of the best ways to improve your chances of closing a deal with a fair maiden is to eliminate Fart Chair, or, better yet, make sure you never get Fart Chair in the first place. After all, when you first get her back to your hovel, the first thing she will notice is the smell of your Fart Chair. You might think this is no problem, but remember: If this is your crucial first time having her over, SHE HAS NOT HAD TIME TO ADJUST TO YOUR FARTS YET!
The best way to make sure Fart Chair never happens is to use a chair with a plastic, vinyl, or wooden seat. The only way to contaminate these is to sit in them naked and fart when you have an intestinal virus. Even then, a quick swipe with some windex and a rag should eliminate the smell and solids easily. But what if you like to have a soft cushion covered with comforting cloth material under you? How can you avoid Fart Chair? You will not get Fart Chair if you simply follow this simple instruction: LIFT YOUR BUTT OUT OF THE CHAIR BEFORE FARTING AND LEAVE IT ALOFT FOR 30 SECONDS. This can be remembered by memorizing the simple phrase, "LIFT, BREAK, AND WAIT." There are some obvious obstacles to carrying out this plan, not the least of which is that if you eat a lot of fart-producing foods, you will get tired of lifting, holding, then sitting down again. Consider eating less gasseous foods.
You're doing great! I'm proud of your progress. But what if you already have Internet Fart Chair? You have probably already tried bouncing on it, beating it, sweeping it, but nothing worked. Internet Fart Chair can be a daunting enemy. There is one way, however, to beat Fart Chair decisively. Use a vacuum cleaner with the hose attached, but with no attachment on the end. Press the hose end repeatedly into the cushion, compressing the porous material, and repeat over the entire surface of the cushion. The farts will be quickly and efficiently sucked from the cushion! No more embarassing rejection by the girl of your dreams! You will have plenty of time to get her used to the smell of your farts later, but for now, it is best to stay on the safe side. Happy surfing!
Ain't it neat how the trolls have their own tech company?
That's nothing for me, the humble user.
I'm not a developer, I'm just a KDE user. I fail to see how there's anything revolutionary in here for me, or the other users. After all, software isn't just for the developers.
I'm amazing. You aren't. SUCK IT
qt 6.5 has been out for a while now.
Fuck you Spain! Pussies.
or what is kde?
I thought we had come to the conclusion that since Sun "sold out" to Microsoft, that Java was therefore "dead" ... didn't we? And now these guys come along and ... wait ... Trolltech ...?
Nevermind, it makes sense now.
topreacher@signature.slashdot.org 1% rm -rf sig
Any time a program gets smaller (disk footprint or memory footprint) and/or faster, it helps the end user. The machine will operate more smoothly, for one thing. Of course, people only notice when their computer runs slower, but almost never when it's faster.
That'll be great to be writing servlets and jsp's in C++. *cough*
This should be obvious.
If the new Qt toolkit gives developers things to drool over, they'll develop more software. If they develop more software using droolworthy tools, there's a good chance some of that software will be droolworthy in and of itself.
A good API isn't the be-all and end-all of software design. But giving developers things to feel excited over is important, especially in the open-source world.
How can you use my intestines as a gift? -Actual Hong Kong subtitle.
What if someone bought Trolltech and got prior permission to LGPL the lot. THAT would worry Microsoft, and their pesky little C++ scam as of the weekend to be a trifle.
In the Linux world, Qt is often thought of as just a GUI toolkit. After all, there is no look-and-feel standard in the X11 environment, and by default Qt and Gtk look much different. Therefore, most look-and-feel decisions on the X11 platform amount to selecting between the toolkits. Consider PyQt, which provides GUI support to python via Qt, but nothing more.
What people don't realize is that Qt is actually a massive foundational library, similar in nature to Java's, for C++. It is a very large API, with threading, network, XML, objects, container classes, string handling, unicode, etc. The 'moc' tool even brings extra features to C++ that normally don't exist. It's almost as if Qt/C++ is a language of its own. GUI is a very small portion of Qt. In fact, of all the Qt code I've ever written, most of it has nothing to do with the GUI. Qt makes C++ actually fun.
I'm very much looking forward to Qt 4. With the plans for advanced threading support and GUI/non-GUI split (similar to how glib and gtk are separated), I can see Qt being very useful for writing cross-platform server applications, a market mostly ruled by Java. The great thing about Qt is that it gives us natively compiled code.
Slashdot, bringing you yesterday`s OSNews posts today !
It would make more sense to position Qt4 against WMV9, but I digress. (too much Apple news today)
Amazing what you can do with them thar macros
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I don't think Trolltech has a chance here. Their primary target is Linux and Linux will fail on the desktop. Trolltech will be a niche player.
Donald Duck is going to have a SCREAMING SQUIRMING DRY ORGASM when he finally gets QT 4 on his computer. It's just teh very b3st system in the world to use for browsing pr0n, and as you all know, thanks to me, Donald Duck just loves to flip through his Daisy Duck pr0n collection more than anything else.
I thought it said Q for Quake 4. This is silly.
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
a. More controversial is the introduction of a new and elegant foreach construct.
b. VB has a foreach construct.
c. Therefore, VB is elegant ?
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
A Qt widget set target against the Parrot virtual machine would be lovely.
.Net has well, all that Windows stuff (I'm not a big windows graphics programmer)
Just think.
Java has Swing / Eclipse and the old one whose name I can't remember but I did use it a lot but its 7:30am and the coffee hasn't hit me yet.
A Parrot/Qt set would give Perl, Python, Ruby etc a nice graphics toolkit targettable against multiple platforms. Yes I know about Tk/Tcl and WxWindows.
Uurgh. Must get coffee. And train
regards, treefrog
Sounds interesting, BUT.... The problem QT are as follows:
.NET, etc)
1) No GPL version for the Windows platform. As much as people in the Open Source community might hate MS, many (most) Open Source packages are cross-platform where Windows is a platform.
2) A non GPL version of the library costs an outrageous sum of money. Sure Trolltech wants to make money, but lower the costs a bit.
3) Why compete against Java? Somebody who uses Java is not going to switch to Qt as Java is still simpler. To me C++ != Java, and I am not saying one is better or worse than the other.
Frankly, I tend to prefer wxWindows, which has many of facilities mentioned in the parent post. And there are plenty of bindings for wxWindows (Python, Java,
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
NEW YORK, April 18 /PRNewswire/ -- In September 2002, a group of senior
Bush administration officials convened for a secret videoconference to make a
difficult decision: what to do with six Americans suspected of conspiring with
Al Qaeda. The Yemeni-born men from Lackawanna, N.Y., were accused of training
at a camp in Afghanistan, where some had met Osama bin Laden. For Vice
President Dick Cheney and his ally, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, the
answer was simple: the accused men should be locked up indefinitely as "enemy
combatants," and thrown into a military brig with no right to trial or even to
see a lawyer, Newsweek reports in the current issue. That's what authorities
had done with two other Americans, Yaser Hamdi and Jose Padilla. "They are the
enemy, and they're right here in the country," Cheney argued, according to a
participant.
But others were hesitant to take the extraordinary step of stripping the men of their rights, especially because there was no evidence that they had actually carried out any terrorist acts. Instead, Attorney General John Ashcroft insisted he could bring a tough criminal case against them for providing "material support" to Al Qaeda, report Investigative Correspondent Michael Isikoff and Washington Bureau Chief Daniel Klaidman in the April 26 issue of Newsweek (on newsstands Monday, April 19). In the months after 9/11 there were fierce debates -- and even shouting matches -- inside the White House over the treatment of Americans with suspected Qaeda ties. On one side, Ashcroft, perhaps in part protecting his turf, argued in favor of letting the criminal-justice system work, and warned that the White House had to be mindful of public opinion and a potentially wary Supreme Court. On the other, Cheney and Rumsfeld argued that in time of war, there are few limits on what a president can do to protect the country. "There have been some very intense disagreements," says a senior law- enforcement official. "It has been a hard-fought war." Hamdi and Padilla have challenged their enemy-combatant status. Next week the Supreme Court will hear their arguments, in what could be the most profound legal issue in the terror war: whether the president can lock up American citizens suspected of terrorist links indefinitely, without charges. This week the court will also hear a case to decide if foreign detainees at Guantanamo have any legal rights. Hamdi, a Louisiana-born, Saudi-raised U.S. citizen discovered in the spring of 2002 among the hundreds of ragtag Taliban fighters sent to Guantanamo, was flown to a Naval brig in Norfolk, Virginia, while administration lawyers tried to figure out what to do with him. When a local public defender who read about Hamdi in the newspaper petitioned to meet with him, an assistant U.S. attorney made a novel argument in court: Hamdi was an "unlawful enemy combatant," and had no right to counsel. Administration lawyers concede that there was a seat-of-the-pants quality to the way events unfolded. "There is a sense in which we were making this up as we went along," says one top government attorney. "You have to remember we were dealing with a completely new paradigm: an open ended conflict, a stateless enemy, and a borderless battlefield." Padilla, the Muslim convert who was arrested while returning home from Pakistan, where he allegedly met with a top Qaeda operative and planned to set off a dirty bomb in the U.S., has been held in a military brig in South Carolina. He was also decreed an enemy combatant. As months wore on, Justice lawyers became increasingly uneasy about holding Padilla indefinitely without counsel. Solicitor General Ted Olson warned the tough stand would probably be rejected by the courts. Administration lawyers went so far as to predict which Supreme Court justices would ultimately side for and against them. But the White House, backed strongly by Cheney, refused to budge. Instead, Newsweek has learned, officials privately debated whether to name more Americans as enemy combatants -- including a truck driver from Ohio and a group of men from Portland.
In my opinion QT and KDE are going to alienate themselves from what their goals used to be.
They are merging more and more GNOME technology into their desktop plattform and I don't see the point why they are doing this. There are no benefits adopting this GNOME junk into KDE or QT.
I always follow dicussions where QT and KDE people are flaming the hell out of GNOME people because their desktop suck so much (which indeed does) but then seeing them merging more and mroe GNOME stuff into KDE.
- gnome-xml is required for KDE
- libart_lgpl is hosted on GNOME and required in KDE
- libxslt is a GNOME xsl library required in KDE
- they adopted GConf for KConf (Windows registry)
- they now adopt ATK in QT
- they now adopt GObject in QT
- they plan to go GStreamer for KDE.
This is nonsense in my opinion and I wonder what advantages this will give QT and KDE over what GNOME has already. The KDE developers are so fond about the idea that GNOME could win anything here (or going mainstream) that they blindly start to adopt their stuff because someone told them that these things are mainstream.
While KDE is a pretty damn nice desktop solution (milltion times better than GNOME) they more and more follow the path of GNOME and it's questionable whether it would not be better telling them to give up on KDE and continue working on GNOME.
Again a better technology trashed for the bad one.
Why is the introduction of foreach considered controvsersial? Other than the possible collision with a future-reserved C++ data type, surely this can only bring good things to an otherwise 'unremarkable' system? (unremarkable in the sense that it isn't exactly unique, not 'troll-unremarkable')
Wow, a new syntactic construct. Stop the press.
Seriously, such rejoicing about new language features fills me with pity at the thought of those poor programmers stuck with whatever language constructs the "higher autorities" deems them worthy to have.
Lisp has supported extending the language for about 40 years. And people still get excited when they get a new syntactic construct for C++. That is sad.
If you want to find joy and productivity in programming, use Scheme, Common Lisp or some other programmable programming language. Free your mind.
A message from the system administrator: 'I've upped my priority. Now up yours.'
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
Is this the one you can't remember?
I hope they looked at the Swing libraries for inspiration. I've settled on Swing as the library for a big project, because I need to change the core storage model of a word processor, and Swing makes that easy. The text storage just has to implement a simple interface, plug in your own storage object and everything works. If QT4 has something similar, I might be writing native code after all.
Hey, fuck you buddy! Spain was fighting terrorism back when the U.S. was trading arms for hostages.
Terrorism (from ETA) has been a fact of life for the Spanish for a long time. Long enough to that they can put terrorism into perspective and not let it ruin their country like in the US. Terrorism a LAW ENFORCEMENT problem. By treating it as such they have already caught the people who bombed the trains in Madrid, not with troops in Iraq, but with police in the city. Didn't even need a "Patriot" act to do it either. w00t.
Bush got the world into Iraq by lieing through his teeth constantly, deliberately, and ineptly. Leave it to the Spanish to tell that retarded liar to fuck off. Did you see Bush's press conference? That guy can't even answere simple questions without getting a script ahead of time. lol.
- So I can write large scale enterpise software in QT?
- So I can write applets in Java?
- So QT'll run in smartcards?
Oh, perhaps it's this aspect that they're shooting to duplicate.The "new feature that you're never going to use" marketing potential aside:
QT isn't even free software. It's GPL'ed on X11 and the Mac - but not the most popular development platform: Windows. Expect to pay $1550 per seat for the privilege of developing there. Because no GPL version is available for Windows. Don't expect to port to Windows without paying the Trolls.
The price instantly puts the toolkit out of reach for smaller development houses - and merely makes it insanely bad value for money for larger shops. For that price you can get an entire high-end computer AND a bunch of Microsoft software development tools (although if you were paying attention to Slashdot yesterday, they just released their compiler for free). It's bad value for money on all fronts.
For those who want actual freedom with the SDK they use, I would recommend that you try wxWidgets.
If that's not suitable, try one of: GTK, Fast-Light Toolkit or even the Fox Toolkit.
But please, for the sake of your code - anything but QT.
http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/for_each.html would do the trick (and would help in avoiding a large body for for-loop).
Qt 4 sounds amazing, I just hope that they will be able to deliver, that's a hume amount of stuff their promising and none of it is trivial. I'm very happy with the direction Trolltech is taking with Qt 4 and I wish them the best of luck! I'm also looking forward to Mark Summerfield and Jasmin Blachette's book on Qt 4.0. I've already got their book on 3.2.x and I found it to be pretty good, though still a bit too advanced for me (I don't know C++ well).
"Havoc has some interesting comments. It is possible the idea will be adapted to provide GObject introspection in the future."
Havoc says jump.... and the KDE people ask how high and how far.
You can buy a commercial license and make closed-source linux applications, while supporting the community financially.
Or you can stick with the open one...
I can't see why it would bother microsoft either way.
Already, Java is being threatened by Microsoft (for obvious reasons) and by Sun themselves (for almost-as-obvious reasons-- i.e. Sun getting into bed with Microsoft). Remember that the software field does not look like "Microsoft versus Sun versus Apple versus...." at present. Rather, it looks like "Microsoft versus everybody else.."
Until the marketplace is more open, with no gigantic 95+% monopolies in any given field, I'd like to see the non-Microsoft players cooperate in an effort to cut MS down to size. Then, and only then, should they focus on competing amongst themselves!
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
I think SCO has made a business out of trolling :)
Yeah, well, the problem is that Java just isn't Free or Open Source enough, so it's doomed. QT, on the other hand, has a bright future. It's so Free you can't even write a non-GPL program that uses QT unless you pay an expensive per-platform per-developer-seat yearly fee. And you can't write a program that targets Windows for QT at all unless you go with the yearly fees.
Now, which do you think developers would rather go with? A company with tenuous links to SCO and a free-to-use but closed-source base library, or a company with tenuous links to SCO and a library you can only use to write GPLed software for UNIX? Yes, I think we all know the answer to this one: the one that the slashdot groupthink hasn't decided is "doomed". So, QT will win.
Mmmm... brown sugar would be so sweet...
...that will make Things better. What is it, that everybody is trying to discredit java, by just copying fundamental features of the Language, or API or VM? .NET and QT are just the big players here. I don't know whats wrong with these folks.
So Qt 4 is "positioned directly against Java". Fantastic! Except I read just a few days ago (also here on slashdot) that Qt will keep on blockading the release of a free-of-charge and publicly available version of their Win32 library port.
Now, call me cynical, but how in the hell are you gonna compete with Java, whose foremost strength is the (alleged) platform independency if you kill yourself right away for the most commonly used platform?
As pointed out by many readers already, Mac OS X is not free or Open Source, and does not have a statistically proven larger base of FOSS developers. So offering free Qt library for OS X while categorically denying Win32 is nothing but complete BS. And this new PR crap about "positioning against Java" is simply too laughable seen in this light.
Btw, I prefer KDE over Gnome, so I'm not an "enemy" of Qt per se.
He can - America is a weak democracyy /0,3604,119 4672,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/stor
and will get plenty of time to do it - the gang of four (Bush,Cheney,Rumsfeld and Rice) will get another 4 years according to the latest polls.
Driven by consumer electronic devices such as mobile phones and PDAs, desktop applications are moving away from standard widgets and styles towards more customized user interfaces. Qt 4 will support this modern user interface approach through its powerful style system as well as with flicker-free refreshes and transparency for all built-in and custom widgets.
I find this trend distressing. Custom user interfaces are, in general, a bad idea. Using non-standard widgets impacts negatively upon application usability.
Standardised widgets help the user quickly adapt to new applications, by maintaining consistent user interfaces.
I wonder if it's anything like the foreach macro I wrote and proposed for inclusion in the Boost library. Slides and source code available from here.
i.e. a standardized way to interact with relational DBs (like ODBC and JDBC)?
If the answer is "No", I cannot really see the point.
And Jerry Seinfeld makes a living out of being funny , something you would be better off not trying.
Dick Cheney is going to be president in 2008. Go start your own country if you want some terrorist utopia.
For most people who were in the pre-DotCom Boom you will recall that WebObjects via Objective-C really paved the way for Web Server-Side Development.
The decision to switch it to J2EE was political and at the time, necessary, in order to compete with all the hype.
Remember however, that this "CODE" wasn't washed down the drain. WebObjects leveraged Foundation and AppKit directly. The beauty of Cocoa is that augmenting WebObjects back to Cocoa/Objective-C is extremely trival for Apple.
I would be highly surprised if Steve doesn't decide to throw out the trump with Portable Distributed Objects (PDO) for say OS X version 11 and have it seemlessly work with .NET and J2EE.
What a lot of people who also worked once at NeXT know is that lots of the technologies that were never released are slowly being reincarnated into various pieces of the pie.
Which bit ?
Against the J2EE platform supported by IBM, SAP, PeopleSoft, Oracle, BEA, Sun, Manugistics etc etc
Against J2SE supported by IBM, Sun, Dell, HP etc
Against J2ME supported by IBM, Nokia, Ericsson, Sony, Sun etc
How about positioning it as a useful tool for corporate developers with minimal tooling support and no easy integration with corporate applications.
OSS needs to realise what WORKS in a corporate environment and why it does, and why re-inventing, or competing with, the wheel is not a great idea.
I like OSS, I advocate OSS with my clients, but its this sort of visionless statement that makes many serious IT directors walk away as they know its a bollocks statement made by people without a grasp of their problems.
Corporate IT _is_ IT.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
On Linux, Qt is in the unique position of being seen as one of the native APIs.
I thought that honor belonged solely to Motif...
Put identity in the browser.
"Incidentally, for those still opposed to Qt's moc preprocessor, Havoc has some interesting comments."
.
:-)
I'm not aggainst Qt moc preprocessor but I think some things can be done in a more efficient way in a c++ way rather than java (static time without introspection, marshaling and other stuff). For example, signal and slot communication, which is one of the main uses of qobject/moc, can be done using c++ templates (see libsigc++ o signals library in boost)
Instrospection and dynamic uses are probably neccesary in a higher level (interfaces compiling, components and scripting), but no in these uses.
It's just my opinion, do not repply with http://doc.trolltech.com/3.1/templates.html, because I think these arguments aren't valid:
No. 1 "Syntax matters" I think syntax in c++ way is even easier
No. 2. "Precompilers are good" ?? It looks like a theological statement:-) Well, probably precompilers are good for interfaces compiling in components, or when c++ compilers are not powerful enough, but not now in this context (more with TT supporting mingw)
No 3. "Flexibility is king" Templates are sooo powerful
No 4. "Calling performance is not everything" But is a big component in UI designing (I've seen similar comparisons between CORBA versus dcop/dbus, and I think the election was dbus)
No. 5 "No limits" ?? For what? There are no limits for the enterprise
First, we need to clear up the confustion from the following statement:
"Qt is positioned as superior alternative to Java".
Trolltech cannot possibly mean that. What they meant to say is: "Qt is an alternative to Java when it comes to cross platform client applications using a GUI". While Qt may do some non-GUI things, too, it's totally different from Java (clue: Qt is not a programming language) and from the Java platform (it doesn't come with a VM, it doesn't have its own bytecode, etc...). What remains is that it's an alternative to Java if you want to deploy applications across Windows, Mac, and Linux. Giving Trolltech the benefit of doubt, this is what they meant.
Having done client-side programming for many years, i can see that there is something to that. I once hoped that Qt would develop into a viable alternative because AWT/Swing was so slow.
However, since then Sun has done their homework and made Swing fast (indistinguishable from native, for the most part), and they are continuing to work on performance in release 1.5. There is still a lot of room for improvement. Things like Apple's library caching - where they pre-compile the native libraries and cache the machine code on the hard disk which makes a Java apps start as fast as a native apps, more hardware acceleration for Swing etc.
Once we get performance out of the way (i have not seen Qt, but i assume it's fast), there is nothing Qt could offer that Java didn't do better.
For example, you don't have to deal with c++. Java is not perfect, but it's - yes we can say that in public - definitely more productive than c++, in the same way that c++ is more productive than asm machine code.
Add to that extensive networking libraries, array bounds checking (buffer overflow exploits not possible in java, imagine that), garbage collection, serious instead of optional OO, and the list could go on and on, no recompiling, runs on more platforms than Qt, free deploy license...
No GPL version for Windows makes it impractical for a lot of cross-platform applications. Gaim, for example, uses GTK for both its Linux and Windows versions, but this would be impossible to do with Qt.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
How about this one? (For the "programmable" bit, see here.)
Here's Qt's new 'foreach' construct:Here's the equivalent code in Lisp:And here it is in OCaml:
As far as portability goes, and correct use of an object oriented
frame-work I can't see why one wouldn't use wxWidgets?
why would anyone in their right mind consider anything else for
cross-platform development with the C++ language?
Pay peanuts, you get monkeys...
Arash Partow
Arash Partow's Philosophy: Be a person who knows what they don't know, and not a person who doesn't know.
The price is per developer, not per user.
Have you checked the prices on Win32 development tools? $1550 isn't cheap, but it's far from outrageous or out of reach.
If that is out of your budget, you aren't a "smaller development house" -- you haven't even learned to think like a business yet. Products like Qt save development time, which allows lower bids, which means more revenue. If you can't work the numbers, go back to the basement -- your business won't be outgrowing it for quite some time.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
But how will they make shared data thread-safe implicitly!? Usually, for MPC, data is just copied. But if different threads share pointers, the access must be synchronized. Will QObjects become Monitors, like Java's Objects?
Fighting communism....
well, the benifits are quite simple. 1. being able to write code easy will help coders build there apps faster and more stable. so coders will have time to add additional features. (webcam support in kopete perhaps) 2. less ram and disk usage. more bit for your buck! less diskusage means less disk spins and thus faster loading. less ram usage means you can run heavy or multiple tasks at the same time faster then before. 3. faster and more responsive widgets! come on, this is something every end user loves. almost all the user joe's that I showed kde 3.2 where just creaming to get ik because konqy started 1000x faster. QT 4 really is a must have.
It wasn't the cocksucking russians...
2) A non GPL version of the library costs an outrageous sum of money.
If you think only 1500-3000 ( depending on package ) per developer for a perpetual license is a large amount of money, then you're either 12 years old or have never paid a dime for software in your life.
A manager of any team of 5 or more people would laugh at that kind of money. It is chump change compared to how much a company would spend on *paper* for pete's sake.
And if you take into account the developer's time ( which any manager must ), Qt is actually cheaper since it is so powerfull it takes on average 25-50% less code to do things in Qt than it does to do in other C++ toolkits I have used in the past.
I would use Qt even if I was only targeting Windows and even if I was the only person on the team. It is *that* good. People who knock it just do not have experience using it.
If I write something for Windows, I create a .exe and I can use it on any Windows machine.
.exe files for Windows).
If I write something in Java, then almost any machine with a browser can run it.
What about QT?
How does QT relate/compare to TCL/TK?
I switched to Linux about a year ago and started writing in Python because someone at Sun said it was better than Java. The dependancies drive me nuts and I haven't worked out how to share my stuff (except, of course, that I can create
The code in scheme is:
(for-each process list)
and in CL
(mapc process list)
In CL you may want to use the function cell:
(mapc #'process list)
It depends on what type of process it is.
Nothing in the new feature list excites me as much as the smaller and faster part. I enjoyed using QT because it was simpler than MFCs, and was pretty fast, but recently Ive found wxwindows and fltk to be smaller/faster than QT. I know wxwindows binaries are huge, but in memory, theyre smaller, and along with FLTK are faster too.
Now if only they'd release GPL or otherwise a free version for win32. A lotta people like me have to develop the app and present it in half-developed form to management to earn the requisition for the $$$. The demo version cannot be downloaded anymore, so I'll pretty much have to start with wxwindows from now on.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Hmmm, off shore.... Hmmm.....
I kid you not. Could it be that BECAUSE people thought, Ahh 3K noise in contrast to wages and software, that we have an off shoring issue?
Having gone through the manager cycle the problem is not the single costs, but the package. And if you can save anywhere then as a manager you do it. Hence why off shoring is so interesting to many companies.
The reality is that people and software companies have to start thinking differently since the "ol" days of charging an arm and leg have disappeared.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
Americans, unlike European contries, do not suck cocks. America gets pussy. Lots of warm pussy.
I've been clicking around this article for a few seconds now, and I don't see any screenshots... What's the point of this article? ;-)
As another poster pointed out, typeof() is evaluated at compile-time, not runtime.
DNA just wants to be free...
I thought Apple was up to QT 6 now, with 7 just around the corner?? What up?
It's too bad it didn't pan out that well.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
While I realize that there are several issues to contend with here, this, at least in my opinion, is not the answer. KDE/Qt is polished, and offers a great deal of flexibility. Even so, developers still need to use that flexibility wisely.
If you take the GPLed QT code and port it yourself to Windows using the GPL license and call it "FreeQT," would TrollTech sue you?
At the end of the day, I put my stuff out under the BSD license--the GPL imposes restrictions that, in my opinion, contradict the definition of being free.
Dick Cheney is a washed up old cretin who by all rights should be long dead, he can't dodge that coffin for much longer though, and a (hopefully) long and excruciating death is just around the corner. Worms and maggots will be chewing on his boney unappetizing corpse long before 2008 has come and gone.
I almost wish I was a christian, then I could be smug in the knowledge that old Dick will be spending the rest of eternity off in hells weeds.
It is impossible to write a GPL program and release it under Windows under Tolltech's license using the latest QT library from Trolltech.
You could maybe port the GPL'd Linux version to Win32 with a lot of effort maybe....
I keep people ranting about free software and freedom. Isn't it odd that people praise Trolltech for supporting free software but they do not allow programers freedom of choice when it comes to what OS they write for?
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
2000 * 4 developers = 8,000.
8,400 / 120 = 70
4 Developers * 30 / hour = $120 / hour
Even if using QT only saved you 10% of developer time ( and from my experience it saves you more like 25%-50% ), it would pay for itself after only one and a half weeks. After one and a half weeks you are making pure profit.
From the interview of Trolltech's guys:
:)
PF: Now, a question that everybody has been asking: Why isn't there a GPL version of Qt3 for Windows?
EE (laughing): As some people mentioned on the dot, it has partly to do with finances, sales and Trolltech's business model. Another point is the fact that Windows is a closed source Operating System. There is no community for Free Software development under Windows. The situation is very different from Linux, as you know. On Windows development usually happens as shareware or commercial software and we don't see that community evolving into producing Free Software.
Hope this clears the situation a bit
Yes. GT3 is not free software as in free speech unless you write on Linux. I have seen that no community line before and it is a load of Monkey Muffins. If you want proof that it is a lie look at the very question you posted...
"PF: Now, a question that everybody has been asking: Why isn't there a GPL version of Qt3 for Windows?"
If everybody is asking I would guess that there is a communit for Free Software development under windows otherwise no one would be asking!
The situation is very clear. QT is not free as in speech or free as in beer.
It looks like a good lib and most likely worth the money but it sure as heck is not free.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
GT3 is not free software as in free speech unless you write on Linux.
... or Mac.
I don't comment about the "everyone" thing, but can you point out some big OS projects on Windows? Anything as big as KDE? I can't remember, but please tell me some big projects and communities if there's such. Do they do cross-platform stuff too?
QT is not free as in speech or free as in beer. So what do you mean with free? Isn't Linux kernel free as it isn't licensed under BSD/LPGL license as you're trying to tell me or what?
I did not use the term everyone. The person from OS news said everyone. As to a list of large OpenSource projects on Windows well there are a few and have been listed before. They do tend to be cross platform as well.a lDub
OpenOffice
AmiWord
Mozilla
Emule
Virtu
GAIM Yes they have a windows version.
FireFox
Thunderbird
Fillzilla
Apache
Perl
Netbeans
Eclipse IDE
Not to mention almost all of the GNU tools.
Yes almost all of these run under Linux as well but there are windows ports of them as well. The Linux kernel is free by every standard I can see I am not into the whole BSD/LPGL/XYZ wars. I do not even really have a problem with the way Trolltech sells there software. I only have an issue with it being called free.
How can it be free if it is practicaly impossible for me to write GPL software using QT for Windows?
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
That's interesting because I would prefer to not have scrolling menus because I don't like waiting for them to scroll. Multiple columns is faster than a single scrolling column and makes sense when the columns aren't wide.
True story.
The OCaml variant of the very strongly typed languages of the ML family is not only extremely elegant, like Lisp and Scheme, but is extremely fast.
This is a ridiculous question - there's plenty of cross-platform OS applications. None of them use Qt, because you can't reasonably write cross platform, open source applications in Qt that target windows - anyone who wanted to use your app there would need a Qt license. So of course you don't see "demand" for cross platform apps if you're Trolltech - anyone who writes open source code with your toolkit has already given up on porting to Windows. People who want to write cross platform apps use other options.
In my main software project I have used a very specific "foreach" macro (it only works with a single type that we use a lot). Whether this is a good idea or a bad one, I have not had any problems with syntax highlighting or automatic indentation, in Emacs and in several IDE's.
Well yes, but the main point was how strong the opensource community is there in Windows base..
AFAIK only eMule and VirtualDub are the ones which are developed mainly by Windows users/developers. Others are mostly used and developed under some *NIXes, but fix me if I'm wrong.. That's only what I think about those.
For an example, I think Apache httpd was first written to *NIX and then ported to work on Windows.. Can you give me some apps which are done by the opposite way?
From what I hear most FireFox developers are on Windows.
The main point is that you can not write GPL sofware with QT3 for the Windows Platform. You can with GTK.
What I have a problem with is not that TrollTech is limits what people can do with their software. They wrote it they can do what they like. What I have an issue with is them lieing about it.
Truth. Our libs are open source under Linux but we plan on making a pile of money selling it to Windows programmers. It ain't Free as in speech or beer unless you are runing Linux/BSD.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.