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LinSpire LPhoto and LSongs: bring on the lawsuits!
Sir Joltalot writes "Over at OSNews they're covering the newly-renamed LinSpire's LSongs and LPhoto apps. Take a look at those screenshots, and you'll notice a striking resemblence to Apple's iTunes and iPhoto. Take a look at this flash presentation and you'll see that LPhoto and iPhoto are almost exactly alike. They look like nifty apps, to be sure, but how long will they last? I would have thought LinSpire might have learned from the whole Lindows name fiasco..."
Look at how ugly that interface is. Apple should sue just over that!
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Say it isn't so!
Call me a cynic, but before this entire thing, I never gave Lindows/Linspire a second glance. Now, they've been in the top of the news here at Slashdot several times. Nothing like staying in the eyes of your target audience, I guess?
LSongs has precisely 2 letters in common iTunes. Have Apple now trademarked 'n' and 's', or is this supposed to infringe their existing patent on 'bAd pUnctuation' and 'rAndom cApitalisation'?
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Is the Lmusic module protected by FairLay DRM? How long before the LayFair lawsuits and LPods?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
So now after angering MS, they are waking up the undead lawyers from Apple?
I wish them the best of luck, they'll need it.
This is the sig that says NI (again)
But LTunes looks almost nothing like iTunes. Can somebody show me the similarity, other than the large song display? LPhoto does look very much like iPhoto... I just wonder if it has the same functionality.
I thought the whole debate over "Look & Feel" was resolved. I thought you couldn't patent, trademark, or copyright "Look & Feel". It certainly can't be a trade secret. What's there left to sue over? Am I wrong?
Should change his name to Gill Bates or Job Stevens...
MR has done this before, and now everyone knows the Lindows OS (now to be referred to as LinSpire).
/.-reader now knows that he has these 2 apps out. And as soon as Steve Jobs realises it, and sues MR/LinSpire, all the WORLD will know, because the news will be covered at every Magazine/E-zine with an Internet section.
He's pulling the same stunt again.
It's an ingenious move. Look at what he has accomplished. Every
By the time he changes the layout of those apps, a lot of people will have tried it out. Voila, instant market-share, no costs but a simple layout-redesign (which is probably resting on the shelfs as we speak).
"Hey guys, look, OpenOffice.org looks almost identical to Microsoft Word! Guess they're getting a big lawsuit!"
Just because a product emulates a look and feel doesn't mean it's BAD does it? Since when was there a patent on a GUI?
Sure, I can see the system MacOS being patented (Aqua) but, not the interface for a frickin' photo management system... There's only so many ways you can make a good product!
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...
Lindows Inc. announced the opening of a wholly owned subsidiary, named Lapple.
Its flagship product, the iLMLaLc, will be released April 30th.
The CEO of Lapple, Lsteve Ljobs, have been quoted as saying "We really don't understand all this fuss about ripping off names! Macintosh and Apple are both names that have seen extensive use before Apple Inc, and their claims are foundless."
toresbe
Sure they look very similar, but not that similar. Firefox and IE look more similar than iTunes and LSong but I don't see people saying mozilla.org will be sued. If Linspire had named them iLPhoto and iLTunes then maybe there would be an issue with the name but I kind of doubt Apple would sue them just because they look somewhat similar. There are hundreds of free and open source software products that look very similar to commercial software but that is just the nature of the game. As long as they don't copy the blatently (i.e. Lindows) then they should be in the clear.
Wow. I've heard imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, but it's hard to find anything flattering in those screenshots.
All ugliness aside, they will be lucky not to get sued by Apple. But I doubt anyone will be confusing these for their Macintosh counterparts.
Granted, Linux could certainly use more entry level apps that are attractive enough to bring in the common home users, but these apps are definitely not going to cut it.
8==8 Bones 8==8
It seems to me all of this hubbub created by Linspire is only creating a bad rap for Linux by inviting constant litigation and controversy.
Yeah, it's still publicity, but when do they cross the line to just pissing everyone off?
Or will everyone just keep agreeing with these guerilla tactics because they "hate Microsoft"? Idiots.
i'm kinda sick of hearing about Lindows/Linspire. why can't these guys come up with their own original ideas instead of stealing others'? there's way too much of this going on in the Linux community, and these guys make it look like that's all Linux is- a pale imitation of the other OSes...
Well, xPde look and feel is similar to XP, but I have not heard of Microsoft going after them...
No. It's blatant. All the way down to Apple's corporate identity typeface (Garamond Condensed) to brand it.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet
Linspire, I'd like you to meet Lawyer, Lawsuit, Layoffs, and finally Languish.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Are you talking about x86 or PPC here, since iTunes runs on both.
It's amazing how similar the apps are, and yet LTunes still manages to look pants in comparison to iTunes. All this despite having almost exactly the same set of controls on the screen. There's more to this design business than you think.
50 comments and nobody is bitchgriping about Macromedia Flash, the state-of-the-art Internet multimedia platform.
There should have been at least one thread about "why can't we just go back to gopher and list elements again?" or "what's wrong with 8-bit GIFs?"
Amazing.
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
These might be Apple iApps ripoffs, but looking at those screenshots, I don't think Apple has anything to worry about. Not only do those screenshots look pretty lame, do they have Rendezvous sharing, a music store, book creation on demand, export to movie, etc?
Show me your Garageband or iMovie clone and I'll start paying attention.
Apple's legal team might sue, but almost certainly send a letter of cease-and-desist of look-and-feel of the product.
Why would Apple care, especially since these apps work only on Linux boxes? (Assuming that this stuff compiles only for x86 and not PPC Linux distros...)
Because Apple must always show aggressive protection of their products' trade and servicemarks as well as their look and feel. While the resemblance to iPhoto and iTunes is mostly there, it's not something that Apple would win, IMO.
A suit or intimidating letter only creates history that courts can use (through Apple's attorneys) to keep Apple's products defined as a specific item or service, and reduce the chance of genericization.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
Could could say that LTunes looks like WinAmps Music Library as well.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
If you took a look at the screenshots, you'd see they don't really look much like iTunes and iPhoto. If you think they do, you might want to get your eyes checked. The functionality may be similar but the styling and quality of the ui between the apps is worlds apart. The L-apps look like crap, IMHO.
- File/Edit/Controls/Visualizer/Advanced menu system
- "Source" title on playlist/library listing on left
- Expandable browsing area
- Column view of browsing
- Checkboxes on playlist
- Play icon in playlist in same position
- "Selected song" caption for album art and same positioning
- Add/shuffle/repeat/album art toggle buttons in same location
- Equalizer/visualizer/eject buttons in same location
- Play controls / now playing / search / browse in same position, only at bottom of screen
- Exact same play position marker
Nope, no similiarities here. Of course, I wonder if...They couldn't buy the kind of publicity they've been getting. Gradually caving to the big guys, changing their name and in the news *every* time the situation changes even a little bit. All for the cost of a few defensive lawyers.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
They really don't try to hide it. The linspire site looks a lot like the apple site.
Evolution or ID?
Just because a product emulates a look and feel doesn't mean it's BAD does it? Since when was there a patent on a GUI?
Ever since Apple got US patent number 2002089529 , titled Media Player Interface. Look at the drawings -- that's iTunes. That probably also explains why LSongs has the player controlls at the bottom of the screen.
Where is LGarageBand? Garageband is a "killer app" on the Macs until the next software development cycle brings it to Windows XP and some free OS distributions. Here is an excellent review of GarageBand.
Have you Meta Moderated t
I am an happy Mac and Linux user.
This doesn't look like the supposedly equivalent Apple iApps.
Maybe does the functionality but that's all.
I think this was not newsworthy.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Just take a look at OpenOffice...look familiar to anyone? Down to the toolbars and icons, it is a clone of Word. By design, to make the transition between the two apps easier.
So it's OK for "our" apps to copy the look and feel of a competitor we don't like, yet not OK for an "outsider" to copy the look and feel of a competitor palatable to many of us?
Give me a break...
I can understand if Apple wants to defend their investments into UI research, since someone directly copying their GUI layouts is copying a lot of work on Apple's part. But I think the whole debate is copying nonfunctional decorative elements: like the "shiny plastic" motif which Apple seems to mesmerize its users with. I believe there was some ruling regarding just what can be considered copyrightable regarding an interface. Does anyone know what those boundaries are?
I think that a direct interface clone would be pretty clear-cut, but if it just 'looks similar,' I think that's less definite.
Here's some interesting background into Look and Feel lawsuits. I remember in college having long debates that Windows 95 was a ripoff of Apple's System 7. Apple has "Trash" and MSFT has "Recycle Bin". Apple list their icons on the right and MSFT list them on left...so on and so on.
-- ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space!
The best feature of iPhoto and iTunes is that they integrate completely with the rest of iLife from Apple. Without this integration there wouldnt be any thing special about neither of them.
As long as the new Lindows apps doesnt integrate together, they wont last because other standalone applications exists that are better at what they do.
Ever wonder why Linux vendors copy Windows/Mac designs, and not the other way around? I mean, you don't see Steve Jobs holding a press conference to announce iPine, do you?
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Apple CEO Steve Jobs today announced that the company has launched a lawsuit claiming German firm SuSE LINUX AG are in breach of the company's patent on random capitalisation in product names. "Random capitalisation is an exciting and innovative use of letters pioneered by NeXT and the rights to this technology are now owned by Apple Inc" said Jobs as he promised to vigorously pursue this action.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/040420/tech_lindows_ipo_1. html
Reuters
Software maker Lindows files to go public
Tuesday April 20, 8:47 am ET
WASHINGTON, April 20 (Reuters) - Software maker Lindows Inc. on Tuesday filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (News - Websites) for an initial public offering of as much as $57.5 million in common stock.
The San Diego, California-based company, which said it was changing the name of its Linux-based operating system after a trademark dispute with Microsoft Corp.(NasdaqNM:MSFT - News), did not provide details as to the size and price of the proposed IPO.
Yes, cry me a river.
When apps _don't_ copy the look'and'feel we get all this whining about how the interface is "weird". See also: GIMP, Blender
So basically linux application GUIs are only allowed to exist in the interval marked "very very familiar -- not too different -- but different enough for my taste."
Anything else, queue the whining.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Perhaps a derivative is. But the originals were designed in ~1495 by Claude Garamond. Apple's official corporate typeface was tooled in the '80s and was based on ITC's Garamond Condensed.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet
Apple lost the look-and-feel suit with Microsoft over different interpretations of a clause in one of the contracts between the companies. Microsoft argued that it allowed them to copy the GUI. They won, which I think was surprised Microsoft as much as anyone else.
I agree that software patents that protect methodologies are bad, but design is copyright law, and not patents at all. You don't see a Dodge Firebird out there, do you? Rip-offs of copyrighted designs should absolutely be stopped.
If Linspire get sued, will anyone feel sorry for them? The parade of ridiculous names continues. What's next? Lmail and a LLawsuit from Google?
That said, is there a point with UI design where the (near-enough) best has been met, and all that can be done is to replicate that with minor changes? Should the fact that one group of designers found that best first stop others from also discovering and using it?
I've looked at the screenshot of Lphoto and they are dreaming if they think that Apple will look at that and feel threatened (a couple of button similarities aside). How do these companies start so strongly (background image of title bar is nice, for example), and then finish it in such an ugly fashion. Who are they paying to design a professional product? It looks cheap and nasty.
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
The themes that were pulled didn't just copy the "Aqua" UI, they used the trademarked apple logo. There are quite a few aqua-style themes out there.
0 1 - just my two bits
The screenshots are terrible. Is linspire a professional product? With which companies/OS is it trying to compete?
I thought that Linux UI had got beyond this stage?
And the problem is barely with the fact that they've virtually screenshot-copied from iTunes, but with the fact that the rest of the simple presentation elements (lists, titles, etc) are really poorly displayed. There's no alignment for example (something that would give it a lot of clarity), or spacing (visual simplicity, eases the user). It's the UI equivalent of a ransom note -- bits and pieces cut from elsewhere.
I understand that this is a commercially sold operating system. If they want to improve the UI of these products, I believe that I could do a better job!
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
philcrissman.com.
Its sad that with anything we do the first thought is either, 'we might get sued' or 'lets sue someone'.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
When I read this in the original post:
;-)
I would have thought LinSpire might have learned from the whole Lindows name fiasco
I thought to myself, "They did!"
Clearly they have learned from the lindows/windows fiasco. Thousands of people had never heard of them before that. Now thousands more will hear about them through this. I wonder who's next after Microsoft and Apple. Maybe they should go after one of SCO's trademarks instead?
Then again, he could be breaking new ground.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Anyway, it's probably easy for a 3 person team and 1 year of calendar time to have decent clones of each one.
Best Buy can have you arrested
When iPhoto, iMovie and iTunes saw the light, there was something about those apps. They were different, not standard at all, it took some time to get used to them (about 5 minutes).
And they kicked ass, you ended up wanting to use them, finding excuses and stupid projects (let's digitise all my JJ Cale albums, yeah!) to test and try every hook and nook of your mac all over again.
That's what original and good design can do for you, dear linux crowd. I'm currently feeling my way around KDE and while very impressed (all this for FREE?) I'm constantly muttering "rip-off" under my breath.
Amazingly enough a lot of linux users are very much badmouthing a lot of products that get copied almost to the last detail.
While I'm a standards freak and know they can be more important than innovation for the sake of it, there's a time and place and above all USE for originality and style. And there are many ways to express them.
LPhoto and LSong are Lame (as said in previous post) and not because they were copied (who cares), but because they were copied without LStyle and LOriginality and as such Lack LFlavour.
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Design is more than just what pieces you throw together. It's all about carefully choosing those pieces, understanding how they relate, and then compositing them carefully. And doing that correctly improves a program's appearance and usability. It's an important lesson to keep in mind, whatever type of use your interface is going to have.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
The tenor of this "flame"-thread seems that providing similar apps to Linux users that the company with the original idea refuses to supply, is bad. Time to start bashing gnucash, or any of the db people. How about bashing Sun for creating Star/Open office or Mozilla for copying NCSA Mosaic.
Geez guys, Lindows is not for programmers and IT staff, it is for people who want to get away from M$ and it's strangle-hold on the home desktop. Most people can't afford the base model Mac, but, they can afford a $200 Lindows/Linspire box.
As for interface, aren't all opensource project works in progress, and getting updated all the time?
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
But does it seem to anyone else like Lindows is the total opposite of SCO? SCO tried to sue when they have no chance of winning, while Lindows seems to be actively trying to be sued by people they have chance of beating...
My brain hurts.
It's funny how little most of Apple's detractors understand who buys macs.
The thought process that goes into buying a mac is something like this: I want a machine that will do what I need to do. I want a machine that won't make me do a lot of things I don't want to do.
In short, I want to run the computer. I don't want it to run me. Some people are willing to pay for a computer that tries to give them more time to work or play by streamlining the process of using a computer. That's what Apple's all about. If Gateway shed mouse buttons and brought out colours (news flash: apple hasn't sold a PC in colours since 2001), they'd still be no closer to that appliance mentality.
Does it run slower than a PC? Not how I define slower. If I can get more computations done in a cycle, but have to spend an hour a week cleaning viruses and spyware off my system, what did I save? If I have to reformat the OS twice a year because installing programs causes it to become doggedly slow, what good is an extra few clock cycles?
Does it have less software? Oh yeah. Drastically fewer packages exist for the mac. But the software I need to use runs on it, and any new function I would like to perform has an option for mac. And it's good software. I don't really miss not being able to play the latest game, since I don't have time to play it anyway.
If you need to have the latest, fastest stuff, if you need the cheapest, most ubiquitous hardware, if you need access to the most software and just need more choices and more control, then of course you don't want a mac, where there is often only one way to do something. And of course you won't be able to see the value in owning one.
Maybe when you get older, and you have a wife to hang out with, dogs and kids to play with, a house to repair, mountains to climb, trails to ride, software to write, art to create, music to play, shows to produce, friends to laugh with, food to cook, rants to post -- you'll see the merit in having a computer you can ignore for six weeks and when you need to, open the lid, perform a task, and shut it again.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Don't these names just sound stupid? The leading 'L' just doesn't flow like the 'i' does. I think it has to do with the consonant sound.
LPhoto... ellfoto... elf oto?
LSongs... ellsongs... else ongs?
If they were going to make a cheesy ripoff of the Apple names, they could have at least thought up more pleasing sounding names.
I just felt the need to mention this, because even as they roll out new applications and names, the "Lin*" people seem to be dropping the ball in other (traditionally strong in the Linux world) areas.
Several months ago, I purchased LindowsOS 2.0 and XandrOS 2.0 Deluxe, both of which use installers based on the old Corel Linux installer. I have several HP Omnibook 4150B (not 4150) laptops, and neither installer would work with my laptops.
The bug itself is known -- the 4150B cannot boot Linux without passing 'NOAGP' to the kernel at boot time -- but neither distribution's installer would pass the parameter correctly.
I contacted both companies with the problem, and the solution.
The Xandros people suggested a few alternative workarounds (that didn't work), then did the sensible thing: they fixed the installer so that the 'NOAGP' parameter can be passed. I use XandrOS almost daily.
The Lin* people suggested a few alternative workarounds (that didn't work), then sent me this note:
"Dear Customer,
I am sorry but with LindowsOS, you cannot change the boot parameters."
End of line. I wrote back, suggesting they change their compatibility listing for the HP Omnibook 4150B to "KNOWN TO BE INCOMPATIBLE", but here it is several months later and they still list it as "Believed to be compatible".
LindowsOS has yet to be installed on any of my computers, even the ones it is compatible with, for this reason.
Just something I thought the Linux community would like to know about.
You bring up GIMP and Blender, two apps known for their bad interfaces. That's why they're known as being "weird." Not because they're different, but because they're just plain bad.
Linux can easily come up with its own GUI design. We've got thousands of world volunteers at our disposal. As someone important recently quipped, "We have the power of millions of volunteers and what do we do? We make a UNIX clone. Then we make a Windows clone on top of it."
The shell in Digital's VMS had history and completion. David Cutler was a lead developer of both VMS and the Windows NT kernel.
Actually, I know from personal experience that you're wrong. My computer illiterate girlfriend has an iBook (one of the all-white 2001 models with dual USB ports) and a 15 GB iPod. She routinely imports songs from CDs and then moves them into playlists that are hosted only on the iPod; once there, she deletes them from the iBook's local storage. So her iBook's precious hard drive space is conserved, and the music is put exactly where she needs it. And when she synchronizes, the songs that are only on the iPod stay on the iPod; they don't disappear, as you assert.
So if my girlfriend, who is not in any special way computer savvy, but who knows how to experiment with something until it does what she wants (and who isn't paralyzed by the fear of screwing up), can figure this out... then it can't be that non-obvious.
I have to admit, though, I was pretty surprised when I saw that she could do this. I was incredulous, in fact. But she showed me how she did it, and after she showed me, I smacked my forehead. "Damn, why didn't I think of that?" Well, it's because most people (like myself) don't bother creating iPod-only playlists inside of iTunes.
Like most Apple software, there are a lot of features in iTunes that aren't exactly hidden, but they're not in-your-face either; these little gems are often discovered by accident, or by reading a book of hints and tips. Many of these features are undocumented or poorly documented, something that is IMHO a flaw, but in keeping with Apple's philosophy that one should not need to read documentation to use a product.
(For those who are curious, I just called my SO to ask her, and she says there's a preference, either in iTunes or in iSync, that lets you turn off automatic music synchronization while separately turning on automatic synchronization of other things, such as contacts and calendars. Once you do that, you can manually copy music to your iPod and manually manage what's on your iPod, including creating iPod-only playlists that have songs not on your host computer's hard drive.)