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LinSpire LPhoto and LSongs: bring on the lawsuits!
Sir Joltalot writes "Over at OSNews they're covering the newly-renamed LinSpire's LSongs and LPhoto apps. Take a look at those screenshots, and you'll notice a striking resemblence to Apple's iTunes and iPhoto. Take a look at this flash presentation and you'll see that LPhoto and iPhoto are almost exactly alike. They look like nifty apps, to be sure, but how long will they last? I would have thought LinSpire might have learned from the whole Lindows name fiasco..."
Look at how ugly that interface is. Apple should sue just over that!
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Say it isn't so!
Call me a cynic, but before this entire thing, I never gave Lindows/Linspire a second glance. Now, they've been in the top of the news here at Slashdot several times. Nothing like staying in the eyes of your target audience, I guess?
Found in the newsletter published by Linspire:
It also brings cross media format support to Linux by playing MP3, Ogg, Windows Media, QuickTime and Real media, ensuring that Linux users can play the most popular formats they might encounter on the Internet.
Let us wait and see.
I'll do it for cheesy poofs.
I am suprised, they didn't even try to be sneaky about it. I mean they could have at lest come up with sneaky names.
All though, they say any press is good press.
Evolution or ID?
LSongs has precisely 2 letters in common iTunes. Have Apple now trademarked 'n' and 's', or is this supposed to infringe their existing patent on 'bAd pUnctuation' and 'rAndom cApitalisation'?
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Is the Lmusic module protected by FairLay DRM? How long before the LayFair lawsuits and LPods?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
So now after angering MS, they are waking up the undead lawyers from Apple?
I wish them the best of luck, they'll need it.
This is the sig that says NI (again)
But LTunes looks almost nothing like iTunes. Can somebody show me the similarity, other than the large song display? LPhoto does look very much like iPhoto... I just wonder if it has the same functionality.
I thought the whole debate over "Look & Feel" was resolved. I thought you couldn't patent, trademark, or copyright "Look & Feel". It certainly can't be a trade secret. What's there left to sue over? Am I wrong?
I don't know, it seems to me like these are different enough to not get hit with lawsuits. At least the music one, i don't know about the photo one. I mean the layouts are similar, but that's to be expected
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
I doubt apple would care a whole lot, they would take it as a complment to their awesome design technique, but with another naming fiasco, I can't see this kind of abuse lasting long. I'm all for the linux revolution, but not if we have to trick users into using it with identical GUIs and naming systems.
SAILING MISHAP
Should change his name to Gill Bates or Job Stevens...
MR has done this before, and now everyone knows the Lindows OS (now to be referred to as LinSpire).
/.-reader now knows that he has these 2 apps out. And as soon as Steve Jobs realises it, and sues MR/LinSpire, all the WORLD will know, because the news will be covered at every Magazine/E-zine with an Internet section.
He's pulling the same stunt again.
It's an ingenious move. Look at what he has accomplished. Every
By the time he changes the layout of those apps, a lot of people will have tried it out. Voila, instant market-share, no costs but a simple layout-redesign (which is probably resting on the shelfs as we speak).
"Hey guys, look, OpenOffice.org looks almost identical to Microsoft Word! Guess they're getting a big lawsuit!"
Just because a product emulates a look and feel doesn't mean it's BAD does it? Since when was there a patent on a GUI?
Sure, I can see the system MacOS being patented (Aqua) but, not the interface for a frickin' photo management system... There's only so many ways you can make a good product!
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...
Lindows Inc. announced the opening of a wholly owned subsidiary, named Lapple.
Its flagship product, the iLMLaLc, will be released April 30th.
The CEO of Lapple, Lsteve Ljobs, have been quoted as saying "We really don't understand all this fuss about ripping off names! Macintosh and Apple are both names that have seen extensive use before Apple Inc, and their claims are foundless."
toresbe
Posting direct links to half a meg of images and a flash movie. Nice. As if Linspire don't have enough problems.
Sure they look very similar, but not that similar. Firefox and IE look more similar than iTunes and LSong but I don't see people saying mozilla.org will be sued. If Linspire had named them iLPhoto and iLTunes then maybe there would be an issue with the name but I kind of doubt Apple would sue them just because they look somewhat similar. There are hundreds of free and open source software products that look very similar to commercial software but that is just the nature of the game. As long as they don't copy the blatently (i.e. Lindows) then they should be in the clear.
At least they could have named them something difrent...they can look and feel similar like XMMS and winamp but calling it is that is like asking for a lawsuite.
The programs themselves. To me it seems like all OSS stuff is Dollar Store versions of commercial software.
Wow. I've heard imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, but it's hard to find anything flattering in those screenshots.
All ugliness aside, they will be lucky not to get sued by Apple. But I doubt anyone will be confusing these for their Macintosh counterparts.
Granted, Linux could certainly use more entry level apps that are attractive enough to bring in the common home users, but these apps are definitely not going to cut it.
8==8 Bones 8==8
It seems to me all of this hubbub created by Linspire is only creating a bad rap for Linux by inviting constant litigation and controversy.
Yeah, it's still publicity, but when do they cross the line to just pissing everyone off?
Or will everyone just keep agreeing with these guerilla tactics because they "hate Microsoft"? Idiots.
i'm kinda sick of hearing about Lindows/Linspire. why can't these guys come up with their own original ideas instead of stealing others'? there's way too much of this going on in the Linux community, and these guys make it look like that's all Linux is- a pale imitation of the other OSes...
Well, xPde look and feel is similar to XP, but I have not heard of Microsoft going after them...
Linspire, I'd like you to meet Lawyer, Lawsuit, Layoffs, and finally Languish.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Are you talking about x86 or PPC here, since iTunes runs on both.
Man, I've got to hand it to the guys running this company! I haven't used the product, haven't even read the article this time, but from Lindows to this -- these guys have serious balls!
But re-implementing Cocoa apps in whatever retarded toolkit they are using is a rather wasteful and round about way of demonstrating it.
It's amazing how similar the apps are, and yet LTunes still manages to look pants in comparison to iTunes. All this despite having almost exactly the same set of controls on the screen. There's more to this design business than you think.
50 comments and nobody is bitchgriping about Macromedia Flash, the state-of-the-art Internet multimedia platform.
There should have been at least one thread about "why can't we just go back to gopher and list elements again?" or "what's wrong with 8-bit GIFs?"
Amazing.
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
These might be Apple iApps ripoffs, but looking at those screenshots, I don't think Apple has anything to worry about. Not only do those screenshots look pretty lame, do they have Rendezvous sharing, a music store, book creation on demand, export to movie, etc?
Show me your Garageband or iMovie clone and I'll start paying attention.
Apple's legal team might sue, but almost certainly send a letter of cease-and-desist of look-and-feel of the product.
Why would Apple care, especially since these apps work only on Linux boxes? (Assuming that this stuff compiles only for x86 and not PPC Linux distros...)
Because Apple must always show aggressive protection of their products' trade and servicemarks as well as their look and feel. While the resemblance to iPhoto and iTunes is mostly there, it's not something that Apple would win, IMO.
A suit or intimidating letter only creates history that courts can use (through Apple's attorneys) to keep Apple's products defined as a specific item or service, and reduce the chance of genericization.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
Not to take sides, but this is just stupid. That, and it shows a lack of creativity on their side. I guess some people see constant litigation as cheap advertisement....
The heat from below can burn your eyes out
Could could say that LTunes looks like WinAmps Music Library as well.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
Yup and iTune looks like crap compared to Winamp.
If you took a look at the screenshots, you'd see they don't really look much like iTunes and iPhoto. If you think they do, you might want to get your eyes checked. The functionality may be similar but the styling and quality of the ui between the apps is worlds apart. The L-apps look like crap, IMHO.
- File/Edit/Controls/Visualizer/Advanced menu system
- "Source" title on playlist/library listing on left
- Expandable browsing area
- Column view of browsing
- Checkboxes on playlist
- Play icon in playlist in same position
- "Selected song" caption for album art and same positioning
- Add/shuffle/repeat/album art toggle buttons in same location
- Equalizer/visualizer/eject buttons in same location
- Play controls / now playing / search / browse in same position, only at bottom of screen
- Exact same play position marker
Nope, no similiarities here. Of course, I wonder if...They couldn't buy the kind of publicity they've been getting. Gradually caving to the big guys, changing their name and in the news *every* time the situation changes even a little bit. All for the cost of a few defensive lawyers.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
They really don't try to hide it. The linspire site looks a lot like the apple site.
Evolution or ID?
I guess you knew iTunes is available for Windows, didn't you?
Oh, yes, you did....
---
All my submissions to Slashdot rejected... and proud of it!
And people giving away mp3's won't be sued because they're not making money off of it. Right...
___ Shout Central - Crushes your nuts!
Just because a product emulates a look and feel doesn't mean it's BAD does it? Since when was there a patent on a GUI?
Ever since Apple got US patent number 2002089529 , titled Media Player Interface. Look at the drawings -- that's iTunes. That probably also explains why LSongs has the player controlls at the bottom of the screen.
Linspire Loffice?
or for the hard core gamer
Lake 2
Where is LGarageBand? Garageband is a "killer app" on the Macs until the next software development cycle brings it to Windows XP and some free OS distributions. Here is an excellent review of GarageBand.
Have you Meta Moderated t
I am an happy Mac and Linux user.
This doesn't look like the supposedly equivalent Apple iApps.
Maybe does the functionality but that's all.
I think this was not newsworthy.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Just take a look at OpenOffice...look familiar to anyone? Down to the toolbars and icons, it is a clone of Word. By design, to make the transition between the two apps easier.
So it's OK for "our" apps to copy the look and feel of a competitor we don't like, yet not OK for an "outsider" to copy the look and feel of a competitor palatable to many of us?
Give me a break...
I can understand if Apple wants to defend their investments into UI research, since someone directly copying their GUI layouts is copying a lot of work on Apple's part. But I think the whole debate is copying nonfunctional decorative elements: like the "shiny plastic" motif which Apple seems to mesmerize its users with. I believe there was some ruling regarding just what can be considered copyrightable regarding an interface. Does anyone know what those boundaries are?
I think that a direct interface clone would be pretty clear-cut, but if it just 'looks similar,' I think that's less definite.
Coke has had a trademark on the "look" and "feel" of it's bottle for over 40 years. This type of stuff is much older than the computer industry. http://www.coca-cola.com.au/about_contour.asp
Here's some interesting background into Look and Feel lawsuits. I remember in college having long debates that Windows 95 was a ripoff of Apple's System 7. Apple has "Trash" and MSFT has "Recycle Bin". Apple list their icons on the right and MSFT list them on left...so on and so on.
-- ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space!
The best feature of iPhoto and iTunes is that they integrate completely with the rest of iLife from Apple. Without this integration there wouldnt be any thing special about neither of them.
As long as the new Lindows apps doesnt integrate together, they wont last because other standalone applications exists that are better at what they do.
Ever wonder why Linux vendors copy Windows/Mac designs, and not the other way around? I mean, you don't see Steve Jobs holding a press conference to announce iPine, do you?
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Apple CEO Steve Jobs today announced that the company has launched a lawsuit claiming German firm SuSE LINUX AG are in breach of the company's patent on random capitalisation in product names. "Random capitalisation is an exciting and innovative use of letters pioneered by NeXT and the rights to this technology are now owned by Apple Inc" said Jobs as he promised to vigorously pursue this action.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/040420/tech_lindows_ipo_1. html
Reuters
Software maker Lindows files to go public
Tuesday April 20, 8:47 am ET
WASHINGTON, April 20 (Reuters) - Software maker Lindows Inc. on Tuesday filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (News - Websites) for an initial public offering of as much as $57.5 million in common stock.
The San Diego, California-based company, which said it was changing the name of its Linux-based operating system after a trademark dispute with Microsoft Corp.(NasdaqNM:MSFT - News), did not provide details as to the size and price of the proposed IPO.
Hmm yes you're right. After all, it's not like Apple ever ripped anybody else off, is it?
*cough cough* Nomad Jukebox *cough*
Sunday you're Thinking Different, Monday you're a huge tool, paying too much and waiting to think like everyone else.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/040420/tech_lindows_ipo_1. html
Reuters
Software maker Lindows files to go public
Tuesday April 20, 8:47 am ET
WASHINGTON, April 20 (Reuters) - Software maker Lindows Inc. on Tuesday filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (News - Websites) for an initial public offering of as much as $57.5 million in common stock.
The San Diego, California-based company, which said it was changing the name of its Linux-based operating system after a trademark dispute with Microsoft Corp.(NasdaqNM:MSFT - News), did not provide details as to the size and price of the proposed IPO.
Didn't Lotus sue Borland for using a clone of their interface from Lotus 1-2-3 and lose their case?
I hate grammar Nazi's.
This entire thread feels like it was started by a troll.
How many photo mgmt apps were out there before iPhoto that looked similar, and did more or less the same thing? It is not like Apple originated this stuff... IIRC they bought out two little companies, re-skinned the apps, built in better quicktime support, and voila!
Originality is dead, long live the clones!
Apple have already tried to sue somone over the 'look and feel' of a product, and it was a Microsoft Win.
Basicly, no-one is goind to spend money going after someone for cloning software any more: it's too easy to change how it looks.
Yes, cry me a river.
When apps _don't_ copy the look'and'feel we get all this whining about how the interface is "weird". See also: GIMP, Blender
So basically linux application GUIs are only allowed to exist in the interval marked "very very familiar -- not too different -- but different enough for my taste."
Anything else, queue the whining.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
The entire point of his trademark antagonism is to generate publicity through lawsuits. At this point, though, I'm not entirely sure that torquing off industry giants isn't the entire motivation of having created the company thanks to this sort of thing.
Tell you what -- if I had that much money to blow, I might be tempted to troll at the corporate level as well.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Linux needs to start to come up with it's own products, not lower quality knockoff versions of Apple or M$ apps. Open source really leads in some areas - I am really inpressed with some of the open source file systems, and obviously server apps are on open source first and foremost. Open source needs to figure out how to attract the greet minds - the people that can figure out what the masses want before the masses do.
I am sure those programs are just some regular KDE apps that Lindows modified to look like Apple's. For example, Juk is a sure candidate for the music player. But, hey, people, I really don't see this as a bad thing. We want world domination, right? :-) So it's only natural to give the users the look & feel of an application that they use and love. Open source does not necesary have to mean innovation. Just what it says: open source, so people can contribute. I don't see any people contributing to iTunes, and that's only because they can't.
I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow...
This is not a new music player. Just an icon set and a name. And oh, they moved the player and search bar to the bottom. Rhythmbox is I guess a knockoff of iTunes or so I hear I don't use it. But this is what Lin*whatever has been doing from the start. Re-branding OSS with Lnames.
Hmm, it makes me feel old that I can remember EA publishing a non-licensed non-sequel game (Jumpman).
Apple lost the look-and-feel suit with Microsoft over different interpretations of a clause in one of the contracts between the companies. Microsoft argued that it allowed them to copy the GUI. They won, which I think was surprised Microsoft as much as anyone else.
I agree that software patents that protect methodologies are bad, but design is copyright law, and not patents at all. You don't see a Dodge Firebird out there, do you? Rip-offs of copyrighted designs should absolutely be stopped.
If Linspire get sued, will anyone feel sorry for them? The parade of ridiculous names continues. What's next? Lmail and a LLawsuit from Google?
That said, is there a point with UI design where the (near-enough) best has been met, and all that can be done is to replicate that with minor changes? Should the fact that one group of designers found that best first stop others from also discovering and using it?
I've looked at the screenshot of Lphoto and they are dreaming if they think that Apple will look at that and feel threatened (a couple of button similarities aside). How do these companies start so strongly (background image of title bar is nice, for example), and then finish it in such an ugly fashion. Who are they paying to design a professional product? It looks cheap and nasty.
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
The themes that were pulled didn't just copy the "Aqua" UI, they used the trademarked apple logo. There are quite a few aqua-style themes out there.
0 1 - just my two bits
Ever notice how certain people always seem to have a cloud over them? Darl McBride of SCO infamy and Micheal Robertson of Lindows both have a record of storm clouds of litigenous conflicts surrounding them. Some might argue this is because they are hard chargers who buck the system and are victims of circumstance. However, one wonders if knowingly or unknowingly they keep putting themselves in these situations to generate the conflicts:)
The screenshots are terrible. Is linspire a professional product? With which companies/OS is it trying to compete?
I thought that Linux UI had got beyond this stage?
And the problem is barely with the fact that they've virtually screenshot-copied from iTunes, but with the fact that the rest of the simple presentation elements (lists, titles, etc) are really poorly displayed. There's no alignment for example (something that would give it a lot of clarity), or spacing (visual simplicity, eases the user). It's the UI equivalent of a ransom note -- bits and pieces cut from elsewhere.
I understand that this is a commercially sold operating system. If they want to improve the UI of these products, I believe that I could do a better job!
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
This is true for the coffee chain called "secondcup" and Starbucks. Second cup is home grown and wildly successful, starbucks just comes in and parks next to them. Stabucks has better coffee though, so I don't really care.
philcrissman.com.
Its sad that with anything we do the first thought is either, 'we might get sued' or 'lets sue someone'.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
When I read this in the original post:
;-)
I would have thought LinSpire might have learned from the whole Lindows name fiasco
I thought to myself, "They did!"
Clearly they have learned from the lindows/windows fiasco. Thousands of people had never heard of them before that. Now thousands more will hear about them through this. I wonder who's next after Microsoft and Apple. Maybe they should go after one of SCO's trademarks instead?
Then again, he could be breaking new ground.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Part of me agrees with you. It's nice to see innovation and progress come from OSS projects like Gnome. On the other hand, if we're going to convince the masses to make the switch, we have to give them something their already familiar with. This is the strategy Lindows... er, um, Linspire, is using in their attempts to get Joe user to try their product.
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
The naming. This whole iWhatever thing already is long in the teeth, but at least has meaning and says something to and about the user.
... say that ten times, real fast...
LSong? LPhoto, that's just plain LLLLLLame.
SongBox, PhotoLog or whatever, how hard is it to come up with names that mean something?
Some originality while still trying to indicate what the program does. Lsong sounds like me too much like an oriental fortune cooky quoting machine and LPhoto
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Anyway, it's probably easy for a 3 person team and 1 year of calendar time to have decent clones of each one.
Best Buy can have you arrested
Well, we're talking about look and feel, not so much the underlying code. It's the fact that Lin-WhateverItIs looks just like someone else's products that's at issue.
And I wasn't trying to be funny with that post, moderators. Open source allows the proprietary market to establish its design standards. It just makes a few tweaks and tags along.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
When iPhoto, iMovie and iTunes saw the light, there was something about those apps. They were different, not standard at all, it took some time to get used to them (about 5 minutes).
And they kicked ass, you ended up wanting to use them, finding excuses and stupid projects (let's digitise all my JJ Cale albums, yeah!) to test and try every hook and nook of your mac all over again.
That's what original and good design can do for you, dear linux crowd. I'm currently feeling my way around KDE and while very impressed (all this for FREE?) I'm constantly muttering "rip-off" under my breath.
Amazingly enough a lot of linux users are very much badmouthing a lot of products that get copied almost to the last detail.
While I'm a standards freak and know they can be more important than innovation for the sake of it, there's a time and place and above all USE for originality and style. And there are many ways to express them.
LPhoto and LSong are Lame (as said in previous post) and not because they were copied (who cares), but because they were copied without LStyle and LOriginality and as such Lack LFlavour.
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Where could they possibly have gotten the Linspiration to make sure amazing apps?
- The Amazina Llama
Design is more than just what pieces you throw together. It's all about carefully choosing those pieces, understanding how they relate, and then compositing them carefully. And doing that correctly improves a program's appearance and usability. It's an important lesson to keep in mind, whatever type of use your interface is going to have.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Someone needs to buy those boys a better widget set. Or at least a theme. Damn those things are fugly. You'd think they'd pick something better to show.
The tenor of this "flame"-thread seems that providing similar apps to Linux users that the company with the original idea refuses to supply, is bad. Time to start bashing gnucash, or any of the db people. How about bashing Sun for creating Star/Open office or Mozilla for copying NCSA Mosaic.
Geez guys, Lindows is not for programmers and IT staff, it is for people who want to get away from M$ and it's strangle-hold on the home desktop. Most people can't afford the base model Mac, but, they can afford a $200 Lindows/Linspire box.
As for interface, aren't all opensource project works in progress, and getting updated all the time?
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
Yeah, sure, they look similar to the Apple apps. So what? My car's controls also look similar to your car's controls. IE looked similar to Netscape. Apple Mail looks similar to KMail. Safari uses roughly the same layout as other browsers. That's what makes things usable.
Apple would be really stupid to start another look-and-feel lawsuit over this--the last one cost them a lot of good will and money.
Okay, lets just say you have a music application...it'll list all of your music on your loacl drive and let you purchase music from the Interweb.
It'll need a list of songs, and need playback controls.
Just exactly how many GUIs exist for this? If a person knows >> and , why make them learn something else?
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Butt-ulgy copy of the iTunes and iPhoto layouts..
Slashdot is not really their target audience. It's the walmart PC buying public who want cheaper computers and software, but with the same look and feel. This is a site for 'nerds', who can no doubt install a better engineered Linux distro, or the real Windows operating systems.
I'm not trying to be elitest, but I doubt the slashdot crowd is what Lindows/Linspire/Linpatronising is aiming at. There's nothing inspiring about a insecure rip-off OS that thinks sticking tradmarks together makes a marketing strategy.
"from the not-much-loriginatility dept."
Oh and iPhoto and iTunes are SOOOO original. right along with eMachines, eBusiness, i-(insert random thing that used to have nothing to do with the internet)
Whats the point of whining about ripping off a name when the name being ripped off wasn't original in the first place??????
Come on, some mac addict just wanted to complain about the next big thing stealing the look and feel of Apple. Though in certain fonts I(i), 1(the number), and l (L) almost look exactly the same, but not the lowercase 'i'.
Except that Apple paid/bought NeXT, and acquired rights to use NeXTStep. So it isn't a 'pale imitation' but a 'weak descendent' to be precise.
GPL Deconstructed
I'm not sure exactly what the point of these is...we've already got very nice apps that do the same thing as these (and have nicer interfaces): for music, either Rhythmbox or Muine, and for photos, GPhoto. The only purpose I can see for LinSpire to have its own photo and music apps is branding, which is pretty silly since they're already positioning themselves as the OS for "generic" PCs. I'm afraid I just don't see the point.
The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must cover
Yhtill forever. (R. W. Chambers, the King in Yellow
WHO FIRGGIN CARES if the applications are name LPhoto and LTunes?! What is the big deal? This is a common practice used all over the software development field: Look at the names of applications used for Gnome and KDE: G-this.. K-that..
As far as the interfaces resembling Apple stuff? Whats the big deal with that? They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.. Well heres a good example! It also makes it easier to accomodate new users, especially in the market they are aiming for! It makes it easier to switch over if the applications are similar to those you've seen other platforms.
Noone freaked out on Microsloth when they came out with the Win95 interface - although it did borrow concepts from the Mac, Amiga, and XWindows.
I thought the whole Lindows suit was totally retarded too.. Christ - if someone wanted to start a new car company tomorrow, is it expected that the cars cant look anything like existing models?! Of course not! Heck the big car manufacturers are constanty copying each other in design styles.
So why should there be anything wrong with mimic'ing the GUI for software applications?
-- NeTMoNGeR
But does it seem to anyone else like Lindows is the total opposite of SCO? SCO tried to sue when they have no chance of winning, while Lindows seems to be actively trying to be sued by people they have chance of beating...
My brain hurts.
It's funny how little most of Apple's detractors understand who buys macs.
The thought process that goes into buying a mac is something like this: I want a machine that will do what I need to do. I want a machine that won't make me do a lot of things I don't want to do.
In short, I want to run the computer. I don't want it to run me. Some people are willing to pay for a computer that tries to give them more time to work or play by streamlining the process of using a computer. That's what Apple's all about. If Gateway shed mouse buttons and brought out colours (news flash: apple hasn't sold a PC in colours since 2001), they'd still be no closer to that appliance mentality.
Does it run slower than a PC? Not how I define slower. If I can get more computations done in a cycle, but have to spend an hour a week cleaning viruses and spyware off my system, what did I save? If I have to reformat the OS twice a year because installing programs causes it to become doggedly slow, what good is an extra few clock cycles?
Does it have less software? Oh yeah. Drastically fewer packages exist for the mac. But the software I need to use runs on it, and any new function I would like to perform has an option for mac. And it's good software. I don't really miss not being able to play the latest game, since I don't have time to play it anyway.
If you need to have the latest, fastest stuff, if you need the cheapest, most ubiquitous hardware, if you need access to the most software and just need more choices and more control, then of course you don't want a mac, where there is often only one way to do something. And of course you won't be able to see the value in owning one.
Maybe when you get older, and you have a wife to hang out with, dogs and kids to play with, a house to repair, mountains to climb, trails to ride, software to write, art to create, music to play, shows to produce, friends to laugh with, food to cook, rants to post -- you'll see the merit in having a computer you can ignore for six weeks and when you need to, open the lid, perform a task, and shut it again.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Managed to find this on the Lindows site: the full Python source code as released under the GPL, no less:
LSongs
LPhoto
>I would have thought LinSpire might have learned from the whole Lindows name fiasco...
They did learn -- they learned that you get a LOT of publicity when you release software that closely resembles a much better-known product. In fact, lawsuit or not, that's the intent here (I would imagine): not to say "these are the same products", but to say "our products should be considered as peers to similar apps from our competitors, not inferior apps".
I just visited http://www.linspire.com/ and it is blatantly obvious that the website design is a ripoff of the Apple web site. Just look at the Aqua-ish navigation buttons...
Sig erased via substitution of an identical one.
the original WordPerfect.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Don't these names just sound stupid? The leading 'L' just doesn't flow like the 'i' does. I think it has to do with the consonant sound.
LPhoto... ellfoto... elf oto?
LSongs... ellsongs... else ongs?
If they were going to make a cheesy ripoff of the Apple names, they could have at least thought up more pleasing sounding names.
If you have the money to muddle through the patent process in the first place; you probably have enough extra money to buy an hour or two of a copyright/contract lawyer's time, give him a copy of the GPL, and instruct him to: "write a license that functions exactly like the GPL, in every way, except that it allows me to retain full control over my patents.".
It's not like the GPL is the holy writ or anything. It's just a software license. And if it doesn't fit your needs, just use a different one.
cya,
john
Imagine all the people...
(Disclaimer macintosh user)
Back in the 80's there was a TV show called Newhart, from of course Bob Newhart. The Character wrote how to manuals and DIY books. Anyway 'Bob' got sued once for stealing a book on how to do plumbing. In the end it was decided there were only a few reasonable ways to describe on how to tighten a pipe.
What am i getting at? If you bother to put some thought into it, there are really a few finite good ways to say organize a set of songs or wrangle your photos. Is this 'stealing', patent violation copyright infringement? Damned if I know IANAL, but at some point there is only one way to sort things by category.
I'll leave the rants against the patent office for another time.
I just felt the need to mention this, because even as they roll out new applications and names, the "Lin*" people seem to be dropping the ball in other (traditionally strong in the Linux world) areas.
Several months ago, I purchased LindowsOS 2.0 and XandrOS 2.0 Deluxe, both of which use installers based on the old Corel Linux installer. I have several HP Omnibook 4150B (not 4150) laptops, and neither installer would work with my laptops.
The bug itself is known -- the 4150B cannot boot Linux without passing 'NOAGP' to the kernel at boot time -- but neither distribution's installer would pass the parameter correctly.
I contacted both companies with the problem, and the solution.
The Xandros people suggested a few alternative workarounds (that didn't work), then did the sensible thing: they fixed the installer so that the 'NOAGP' parameter can be passed. I use XandrOS almost daily.
The Lin* people suggested a few alternative workarounds (that didn't work), then sent me this note:
"Dear Customer,
I am sorry but with LindowsOS, you cannot change the boot parameters."
End of line. I wrote back, suggesting they change their compatibility listing for the HP Omnibook 4150B to "KNOWN TO BE INCOMPATIBLE", but here it is several months later and they still list it as "Believed to be compatible".
LindowsOS has yet to be installed on any of my computers, even the ones it is compatible with, for this reason.
Just something I thought the Linux community would like to know about.
... are these iApps rip-off Open-Source ?
:wq
In my mind, the former and latter companies are getting nothing but bad press.
We only read about M. Roberson always wining to the press. Taking the fight to Microsoft and being bullied. A simple name change would have sufficed, I think he expected the suit in the first place if only to get free press. Now, the naming schema, is too similar to Apple's.
Are we going to see plain white Linspire computers with a single button-mouse and an LSuperDrive? No matter how "good" this company gets, in my mind its becoming nothing but a rip-off of other work. I'm never going to buy anything from them. IMO, there's enough good work going on with Fedora that LinSpire doesn't deserve any press.
Is a protected fair use of the original work. I think Apple is out of luck here.
smoke-and-mirrors advertising
Smoke and mirrors advertising sells the first unit. It does not create repeat buys. The intense brand loyalty among Mac users trumps your argument. If the emperor truly had no clothes, he wouldn't have kept warm for the past 20 winters and he might look a bit more naked.
Since it does few things compared to standard machines
I only have one bicycle. This does not mean I can't ride it to where I need to go. In fact, my bike -- a very versatile, lightweight Trek mountain bike -- may not be as fast as a road bike, nor as durable as a BMX, but it got me to work okay.
News flash: Apple has never sold a PC ever. They don't even make them.
Apple makes plenty of Personal Computers, as opposed to mainframes and servers. Apple sold their first PCs in 1976, the first IBM Personal Computer was released 5 years later. My mistake was using the term "PC" later to refer to the x86 architecture. I apologize. You trolls deserve more accuracy than that.
D'uh. It means NOT AS FAST.
And my point was that speed isn't just measured in operations per second. It can also be measured in how long it takes to get a task done. This is why an IBM mainframe with 800 MHz chips can process a trillion bank transactions faster than your whiz bang 2 GHz Duron. With a Mac, it is quicker to get a set amount of work done, even if each batch of tasks takes more time to complete. And with a G5 Mac, even the individual batches complete in equivalent or less time than on a comparable x86 machine. Nowadays, the bottleneck is often the human performing the commands while the processor is idle. The only way to eliminate this bottleneck is to streamline the usability of the computer.
If you "think different", a Mac won't do it for you.
This is making the assumption that more packages means more innovation. I propose that the entire mac PLATFORM is an alternative to x86/Wintel innovation, same as a train is an alternative to a car. You can't put a Type R sticker or a fat exhaust pipe on your train, in fact you can only go where the tracks lead -- does this make it a less viable transit solution? The millions of people who take trains to work every day wouldn't think so.
With a Mac, you'll open the lid and find out that it can't do it due to missing hardware or "no one has written a program".
I guess you know something I don't about how I use my computers. What tasks am I missing, Anonymous Troll, that I really need to perform? What bleeding edge piece of technology has been absent from my restricted Macintosh existance lo these past seven years? It must be pretty subtle that I haven't noticed it. But I have a great respect for subtle things, so please tell me: what can't I do, and why do I want to do it?
Hey freaks: now you're ju
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the other Lin[dows|spire] news. They are apparently one step closer to a public stock offering after filing some paperwork with the SEC.
Apple puts millions of dollars into UI research and design, why not copy their work?
Uh, because it's their intellectual property? Because Linux isn't supposed to be just a derivative? Because we can do better and make our own?
Doesn't surprise me coming from the "let's pirate everything" crowd.
http://www.lifescapeinc.com/picasa/ These guys are not only ripping off the interface of iPhoto but charging money for it.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
You bring up GIMP and Blender, two apps known for their bad interfaces. That's why they're known as being "weird." Not because they're different, but because they're just plain bad.
Linux can easily come up with its own GUI design. We've got thousands of world volunteers at our disposal. As someone important recently quipped, "We have the power of millions of volunteers and what do we do? We make a UNIX clone. Then we make a Windows clone on top of it."
OOo Writer doesn't look like WinWord at all. Yes, it has a menu bar and a work area, but then so does every other windows (MS, X, Mac, etc...) application out there. And yes, with some apps there are only so many ways to get the job done, which is why all spreadsheet apps have rows and collumns) but this is too much. Look at WinAmp 5. It has many of the same features that iTunes has, but it doesn't look a thing like iTunes.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Search for posts with people trying to skin KDE to look like OS X Aqua. Everything I've seen is a cheap rip off.
Skinners make their Aqua theme approximations look cheap on purpose because Apple cease-and-desists anybody whose Aqua theme knockoff actually looks good.
Look at photoshop and the layers (an innovation, not a usability feature), I'm fairly sure they were the first company to start using layers.
There were layers in HyperCard's paint program (1991 or so) long before there were layers in Adobe's image editor. In HyperCard, each card had a monochrome image with a monochrome alpha channel, and sets of cards in a stack could share a back layer called the "background."
"El Photo" is OK but it should be "Los Songs." ;-)
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
The work is copyrighted regardless of who has read the work.
In most cases, copyrights do not have the broad scope of patents. To prove copying in a court of law, a copyright owner needs to prove both the alleged infringer's access to the work and substantial similarity between the works in question. Access is trivial to prove for a musical work, as it can be assumed that all major label songs have been played on commercial radio (Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music), but it's a bit harder to prove for a computer program. And as cloning involves non-literal copying, the copyright owner also finds it more difficult to prove substantial similarity.
wouldn't it make sense for apple to port iTunes to *nix, it wouldn't exactly be hard considering osX is based off of bsd, and it would be a nice gesture to give back to the *nix community for giving apple their osX kernel.
Once you realize that a patent simply means "The governement took money from me"
It also means "I can take money from you unless you have even more money to hire a lawyer."
do they have Rendezvous sharing, a music store, book creation on demand, export to movie, etc?
At least this music "store" runs on Linspire. If the company gets enough requests from CNR customers, it'll probably add support for Rendezvous. Other CNR apps probably have book creation and slideshow generation.
The shell in Digital's VMS had history and completion. David Cutler was a lead developer of both VMS and the Windows NT kernel.
there's no LSongs Music Store (yet).
Have you ever used iRATE? It's cheaper than iTMS.
For most people, yes, trains are not an acceptible transit solution. The trains either do not go where they want to go, or they take too long in getting there.
These software packages may look like duds due to their preliminary user-interfaces, but imagine if down the line they connect to the services available from their big business partner, Wal-Mart.
Imagine if users of Ltunes can buy their songs from Wal-Mart for $0.89c apiece, and users of Lphoto can get their pictures printed/duplicated/etc at Wal-Mart Photo for $0.75c apiece.
The shoddiness of the software won't matter so much to its users because it could just be a gateway to real-world services they are accustomed to using: the music store, the one-hour photo.
Which is exactly my point, though I'll hammer it in a little harder.
Just because a train is not for everyone, does not mean it isn't viable for many. In fact, in regions where a lot of people have to get to the same destination from the same source, it is an invaluable and efficient solution.
Similarly, thought the Macintosh is not ideal for everyone, for the vast majority it would get what they need to get done more efficiently. If a Macintosh does not do what you need, that does not invalidate its usefulness.
And the Mac does just about everything. They're like European trains.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
First, what's the deal with these apps, are they proprietary or open source? Are they only available through the Lindows/Linspire Click-n-Run thing? If they're open source, where can I download them?
/.?
Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass about the look-n-feel. As others have pointed out, there are a lot of open source apps that emulate the L&F of other commercial apps even closer (OpenOffice.org, XMMS, etc). The repeated copycat naming is not smart, I think that's the only reason anyone is even paying attention to this post. If they hadn't named it LPhoto, do you really think anyone would have spent the time to get in an uproar about it long enough to draft a post on
Seriously, iPhoto is one of the best apps on Mac OS X. It took some real genius to make an application that easy to use. I want it on my Linux box, and I don't care if you copy it pixel-for-pixel like the xPDe guys have copied the XP interface. That application (iPhoto) kicks ass. Where can we get this clone short of buying Linspire?
Anybody who mods this funny is missing the point. This is exactly the kind of application that Linux needs to have in order to make any headway on the home desktop of your average person.
So now you're saying that it's OK to copyright look & feel of applications like iPhoto? It's amazing just how your opinions change when it suits you. If Linspire can add this by doing their own development good for them. iPhoto is a trivial applications and people should be allowed to implement features like this as they see fit.
Copyright protects expression, not function. Trying to stretch it to protect functional aspects of a GUI should be out of bounds. Imagine if every brand of automobile had to have a completely different control mechanism. Only one brand could have a steering wheel; maybe the next guy would have to use something that looks like a rudder. One would have a gas pedal, another would have a hand throttle. Would this be a good thing?
I'm at the Linspire.com site. Where on the frontdoor does it even tell me what CNR is? I work with computers every day and I've never heard of it. How will every day, potential customers have a clue?
Hell, now I'm on the CNR tab and I still don't know what it means. Is it a name of a shop? Why do I want a shop with my operating system?
The quality Linux distros need to distance themselves from this amateur confusion ASAP.
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
Apple might release iOser and iAme just to see what Linspire does with them.
Actually, I know from personal experience that you're wrong. My computer illiterate girlfriend has an iBook (one of the all-white 2001 models with dual USB ports) and a 15 GB iPod. She routinely imports songs from CDs and then moves them into playlists that are hosted only on the iPod; once there, she deletes them from the iBook's local storage. So her iBook's precious hard drive space is conserved, and the music is put exactly where she needs it. And when she synchronizes, the songs that are only on the iPod stay on the iPod; they don't disappear, as you assert.
So if my girlfriend, who is not in any special way computer savvy, but who knows how to experiment with something until it does what she wants (and who isn't paralyzed by the fear of screwing up), can figure this out... then it can't be that non-obvious.
I have to admit, though, I was pretty surprised when I saw that she could do this. I was incredulous, in fact. But she showed me how she did it, and after she showed me, I smacked my forehead. "Damn, why didn't I think of that?" Well, it's because most people (like myself) don't bother creating iPod-only playlists inside of iTunes.
Like most Apple software, there are a lot of features in iTunes that aren't exactly hidden, but they're not in-your-face either; these little gems are often discovered by accident, or by reading a book of hints and tips. Many of these features are undocumented or poorly documented, something that is IMHO a flaw, but in keeping with Apple's philosophy that one should not need to read documentation to use a product.
(For those who are curious, I just called my SO to ask her, and she says there's a preference, either in iTunes or in iSync, that lets you turn off automatic music synchronization while separately turning on automatic synchronization of other things, such as contacts and calendars. Once you do that, you can manually copy music to your iPod and manually manage what's on your iPod, including creating iPod-only playlists that have songs not on your host computer's hard drive.)
So it's OK for "our" apps to copy the look and feel of a competitor we don't like, yet not OK for an "outsider" to copy the look and feel of a competitor palatable to many of us?
People don't buy Word because of the interface.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Why don't we just give a patent for the letter "i" to Apple so only they can i-market with an i...
Check my homepage and maybe we can trade links or just 4 fun VJ Vi
Well, it'd be nice if you could qualify "lots" a bit better. Maybe a real quantitative figure. But then again, you can get that from the product spec sheet. Yeah, Winamp plays more formats than iTunes. But iTunes natively plays the formats I most care about (except for Ogg Vorbis, which requires a plugin).
If you want to dick around with video, there's Quicktime Player and a hundred other applications and utilities that let you view it and more. I don't understand why Nullsoft put video capabilities in Winamp. But hey, if it floats your boat, great.
Incidentally, if you want an alternative to iTunes on the Mac that supports skinning and variable opacity and other nifty eye candy, as well as native Ogg Vorbis support, I'd recommend Audion.
Other notes...
I don't consider this to be much of an advantage for Winamp. It's nifty, but the application already has a petite interface by default, so I don't understand what value you get from spreading the pieces apart.
This is factually incorrect. iTunes defaults to managing your library for you, but you can turn this off and have it simply access the files where you want to keep them.