Slashdot Mirror
HP Releases New RPN Scientific Calculator
majid writes "HP just announced a new calculator, the HP 33S. It supports RPN and algebraic notation, and sports a funky V-shaped design. I don't think it looks as nice as the 33SII it is supposed to replace, and it seems to have rubber keys instead of the wonderful hard plastic keys on older HP calculators, but it's nice to have a new RPN scientific calculator that does not have the intimidating learning (and remembering) curve of the 48 or 49 series. This one just might join my trusty 15C ...
The User's manual PDF is available courtesy of Amazon, where it is apparently already No. 85 on the best-selling list."
Really, why bother, the dedicated calculator is dead. Just install EasyCalc and EasyStat which can do some pretty neat stuff for your Palm and you're all set. My Tungsten T3 has a 144Mhz ARM CPU, which is loads faster than anything dedicated calculators can offer and has a beautiful 320x480 16bit tft.
Plus there are loads of software for Palms that can do statistics, etc..
Too bad HP can't see it. Or maybe they can and they want to rip you off? After all, if you buy a Palm, all you have to do it upgrade your software to get new features. With this, you need to buy a new calc.
Talk about a rip-off if I ever saw one.
Until it can play a Tetris clone, it's not replacing my TI-92. :)
I just give the closest unemployed math student a buck to solve anything more complicated then 1 + 1 = 3.
Hate me!
Agreed. I find it easier to add and use 10's complement, myself.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
This calculator good for basic math and people in non-engineering majors.
... however it has its limitations. I am taking Partial Differential Equations this summer and I don't think any calculator can help me get the answer quick and easy.
The Ti92 (or Ti89 if you don't want the qwerty keyboard) is still the best route to go for higher-level mathematics (Calculus etc)
Yes! I listen to NYC Speedcore and do math at 3AM. I suggest you try it too.
algebraic: 2 + 1
RPN: 2 1 +
How can a calculator that does not support volkswagen's and libraries of congress as conversions units be of any possible interest to /. readers?
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Try using a stupid stylus during a calculus final, or during an engineering project...
No, for 'real' usage, you cant replace a real calculator with a flat emulation of one.
That said i do have a RPN emulator for my Toshiba 330, but still, when i have to do more then just a quick calculation, its back to my HP48. ( or 41, that got me thru college.. )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I'm all for geek chic' and all (being a former Navy Nuke and now a network security engineer) but the line has been crossed when I see review of someone drooling over a new model of HP calculator.
I'm just waiting for that day now when I turn on Tech TV and see the new show "Pimp My Calculator" hosted by Ludicrous and Bruce Schneir!
There's been some complaints on the HP newsgroup about a near invisible decimal dot in the display, IIRC. Something to look out for.
And people, this isn't a replacement for the graphing calculators, it's meant to be a competent calculator for people who don't need graphing, and it can be used on tests where the HP49G+ and such are often forbidden.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Nokia finally bought out HP. I guess if you cannot make the phone with the normal keys, you can make other consumer devices so screwed up that people think that it is OK to go on diagonal to type anything.
Sometimes I think form should still follow function. But I guess my brain was not destroyed by the rapid MTV editing.
The US Internet Price is $49.99
... sit down ... $112.61
... no - wait ...
The campus bookstore at my college (DTU Denmark) charges
Granted, Denmark has a 25% sales tax. Let's add that and compare: $49.99 * 1.25 = $62.49
I believe the words I'm looking for are "HOLY FUCKING SHIT!"
Good thing I'm not a poor pennyless student
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
Fifty bucks buys you a calculator with rubbery keys (in a weird 'newbie-friendly' pattern), a two-line (!!!) screen, and 31KB (!!!) of "RAM user memory"? What the fuck are they smoking? How is this better than a used HP48G that you could get for probably the same price?
Jesus Christ, it's 2004. We should have HP48G-looking units with 64MB of RAM, double-high-res colour transflective screens (think GBA), USB ports, AND full backwards-compatibility with all the wonderful HP48[G/GX/S/SX] software out there (think of how the newer Palm devices can run older Palm software), but no, we get this pile of steamed monkey dung...
I guess this is what we can expect from..... Compaq.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
RPN
I
love
Equals!
You are not the customer.
I seem to recall an announcement a while back saying that HP was getting out of the calculator business. Since then they have released two new calculators(HP49G+ and then this one). What's up? I love HP calcs though. I have an old HP41CV that I have thought about selling on ebay(they are worth quite a bit now) but I think I'm going to keep it. RPN is the best idea ever.
I'm in grad school in EE about 6 or 7 years behind my fellow students (cashed in on the dotcom boom, etc.) and we were talking about this yesterday.
When I was in engineering school, the HP48GX was the calc. Everyone knew RPN, all the circuits students learned quickly how to solve linear algebra rather quickly on the HP. Now I'm the only one with an HP. Everyone, everyone has a TI-89. Symbolics plus nearly everything the HP could do (except RPN), much improved graphing, much improved processor. The new HP calc? Overwhelmingly, reviews have pronounced it crap, both in interface and underlying engineering. (It still uses the same old "Saturn" chip the HP48 series did ten years ago, with a slight speed bump.) Two or three students had never even SEEN an HP calculator.
Is this true everywhere? Has the HP calculator series been relegated to the trash heap? If so, how did HP allow itself to bungle this so badly?
OpenGLFan, whose love of RPN is the only thing attaching himself to his current calculator...
I still miss my HP 42s. I replaced my stolen 42s with with a 48GX but while the 48gx does everything that the 42s did (and more) I still like the smaller form factor on the 42s.
I've seen 'em for sale on e-bay but I don't feel like paying $250.00usd just to get one back, expecially since the only thing I use a calculator for anymore is balancing my checkbook.
The 42s had a lot going for it - I think HP would do well to re-release it, or at least make a new version.
the enlarged image didn't work for me (don't know why). but at last I managed to get it. In case some of you had similar problems - here it is:
j pg
http://www.hp.com/calculators/images/33s_350x350.
#
#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
#
That thing is painful to look at and resembles something out of my kid's Transformers collection. What's wrong with rectangular keys and straight columns and rows other than Marketing doesn't think that's 'cool' enough? On the plus side, it has a "last x" key. The 48GX doesn't have one and I miss it.
Looks like the golden oldies are still top of the line. It's amazing that over 10 years old calculator still beats the living daylights out of these new toys. HP calculator division should take more note about their roots... if you can't design a worthy successor, heck, at least put out a slightly modernified (more memory, higher clockspeed) version of 48GX.
Not that this is even meant to be a competitor for 40>, it's supposed to be few steps below, and the reason for "easy learning curve" is obvious, it just does so much less, but still... it's hard to know if those keys are as bad as they look, but apparently they are if fellow posters are correct, and the display sucks as well (in addition to being way too small for lots of things).
Looks like you still need to pry my 48GX from my cold, dead hands.
... that works. I'm a very successful and effective engineer who never made it past Calculus 2 at university. I have a strong creative impulse, good work habits, and an intuitive grasp of EE topics from signal propagation to circuit analysis that has served my employers well. But I can't deal with math. I don't like it, and it doesn't like me. I have the same problem with abstract mathematics that dyslexics have with words.
The truth that you'll never hear in college is that in engineering, intuition and imagination will get you 50% of the way there, and self-discipline will buy you another 40%. The remaining 10% is purely analytical work. It has to be done, and it's hard as hell. It's why they don't let EEs graduate without course upon course of advanced calculus, differential equations, and thermodynamics. However, at the Fortune 1000 company where I work (Agilent), there are always plenty of math geeks around, and I treat them like very smart, very valuable calculators. "Here, optimize this." "How's our max temperature looking?" "Can this be done any cheaper without sacrificing operating margin?"
Engineers and mathematicians make a killer combination. Personally, I think a lot of talented, creative folks are kept out of the EE community by the stiff math requirements, and that's a shame.
Why couldnt they have made it like the 48sx?
Because in recent years HP decided to save a bundle of money by decreasing the product quality which is what the HP name was known for. They made up for it with that shiny metallic paint. Some focus group must have preferred it to the staid ABS plastic that was typical of HP stuff. Good thing, too, since it makes it easy to recognize pre-Carly from post-Carly HP products.
I have an HP-28S that I got in 1988 and used through college, and a HP49g+ that I was stupid enough to get in 2000. I know exactly what you're talking about. Once an HP model gets that metallic sheen on it, it's game over.
The big advantage my old trusty 15C has for me is dedicated A-F keys for doing hex math. This new HP suffers the same problem that the 48SX/GX has: you need to do the friggin' "Alpha shift" key before every hex digit.
No thanks man... if it doesn't have dedicated A-F keys it ain't no programmers calculator.
--Rob
If it ain't broke - don't fix it.
The 41 was THE calculator in its day. Nothing could come close to its power. The 41 was also one of the few calculators you could truly hack, both the software and the hardware.
-- Will program for bandwidth
these
of
cluster
beowulf
imagine
++++
perl -e '$_="\007/4`\cp%2,".chr(127);s/./"\"\\c$&\""/gees
The HP 33s is HP's most advanced, programmable scientific calculator, packing 31 kilobytes of user memory along with the powerful "HP Solve" application into a shirt-pocket-sized unit weighing only 119 grams (4.2 ounces).
Wow, how do they manage to "pack" an entire 31K into something that can fit into your shirt pocket!?! Amazing!
Seriously, I'm sure the calculator is fine, but they really need to find some better marketing people.
A while back I owned a HP 28S.
:) A lot of other people were hacking on that calculator, there was a real scene, with a lot of good free software.
Then a 48SX and it was really an amazing beast. Not as a calculator but as a geek machine. Programming in assembly language was a breeze. I really loved the Saturn CPU. In fact, I spent a lot of time at school coding on the calculator instead of listening to teachers
Then the HP48GX was out. It rocked. It was twice faster as the HP48SX. More people joined the HP 48 scene, new tricks were found (like using interrupts for grey levels), minitel services were there to share and download code... well... it was just excellent.
-HPdream.
{{.sig}}
The NCEES just banned the HP48/49 from their popular engineering exams. People were using them to steal exam questions and/or to cheat by transmitting to one another. The HP33s is the ONLY RPN calculator that is explicitly approved. They are seriously considering switching to only allowing calculators that have been explicitly approved, but say they want to keep the list short (so may exclude the great vintage RPN calcs like the 15c). There was a HUGE rush to get the 33s in time for the April exam a week or two ago & they were being sold on ebay for hundreds of dollars.
Good time to plug OpenRPN, a project to develop a series of open hardware RPN calculators. It just started, so don't expect learning TOO much from it (they still have some problems with their forums, so please be gentle with the server), but if you can help out please do so!
I have pimped my calculator. I have a TI-83+ Silver Edition, with the clear/pearl case, i cracked it open and put 2 blue LEDs and a switch inside. Lights up real good, enough to read by in the dark. Doesn't backlight the screen however.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Count your stars lucky.... At least HP still manufactures decent calculators. It's not that far a stretch to see HP take their calculators down the road of so many of their other products like their printers, which used to be sooooo good.
Here's a plausible scenario:
Imagine having to first activate the calculator via a Windows software install. This would, of course, require an Internet connection, so that the latest firmware (2.45, of course, to fix recent problems with totals) could be downloaded to the calc. The firmware, by the by, is 12.85 megabytes. (Well, not _really_ but there's other stuff in there, too, of course.) No Internet? No activation. No calcy.
Oh, and you must register the product, otherwise you won't receive support or updates. And while installing, Share-to-Web, BackWeb, and five other processes will be installed. They'll come up with the next reboot. (That explains the extra 50 seconds added to reboot, anyway.)
*sigh*
If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
I love RPN. Many of the posters here love RPN. But to the average user, RPN is like "lol i dont get it its all BACKWREDZ". I remember offering to loan my HP48G to people who handed it right back to me after trying (and failing) to comprehend RPN.
Is there a paper somewhere on why RPN is a Good Thing(TM), and not just "lol teh math is backwardz"? Cuz to the average user, RPN is like "speak like Yoda do I!" It seems pointless to them, and only slows comprehension.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
Does this mean I can boot Apple ][ DOS?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
For anyone that hasn't read User Friendly, Erwin (the SGI Box in the comic) is an AI that the non-geek marketing guy Stef (the guy in the comic) is trying to seek revenge on for various reasons (read the archives to figure all that out).
& mode=classic and the next several comics.
Check out http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990823
Michael C. Hollinger
I'm sure they could've, but then they would have to require that you use it no further away from the sun than Mercury's perigee.
- rabs
Post Versalog. Ooops, am I giving away my age?
Nope, you're not. I have a slide rule (Versalog, AFAIK), and I'm only fourteen! Of course, I can't do much more than simple multiplication (since I have an hp49g+, a TI-89, and just got rid of my TI-83+), but I can still say I have it.
-MrM
I am reasonably skillful at maths, and a somewhat successful engineer (leastways I enjoy it and get good appraisals). For most of my career I have been involved in Noise and Vibration, which meant I had to eat Fourier transforms for breakfast. FTs are one of the few 'advanced' maths concepts I regard as easy.
There are a lot of people around who have a good feel for stuff that I tend to analyse, but often I analyse it because its fun, not necessary. I have had some technicians working with me who could not have described an FT, let alone worked one out, who still managed to do very good work.
Now I work in a field where a basic knowledge of Hamiltonians is helpful (suspension/mechanisms analysis/non linear dynamics), but, I have a strong suspicion that many engineers in my field don't use them or understand them. Doesn't seem to hold them back.
If you want to emulate the 48SX, 48GX, and 49G calcs on your Palm...
http://power48.mobilevoodoo.com
They look fantastic - an impressive graphics job, and look like they work well to me. Sadly, I'm just a wannabe geek hanging around slashdot to look cool, so I don't actually follow a fraction of what they do.
How sad is that?
PigPog.
just to show the efficiency of RPN for lengthy calculation:
algebraic : (2 + 1) * (4 + 3) + 5 =
(14 key strokes)
RPN: 2 [ENTER] 1 + 4 [ENTER] 3 + * 5 +
(11 key strokes)
Sadly when they "click" it does not mean that a keypress has registered! It's like having a keyboard with buckling springs only the noise & touch gives no indication that you have done what you intended. Could it be a fake click has been added to keys that were never meant to click, that the click has nothing to do with electrical operation? Would the old HP have made a fake click? No, the click was there because it was how the reliable key mechanism operated. Click meant electrical contact, not fooled user.
Fake click is like a huge exhaust on a stock Civic. It's an Indonesian copy Rolex. It's the fake leather smell on a "pleather" laptop case - it's what's wrong with HP. But the people running HP think you're too stupid to notice that what you're buying isn't what it seems.
HP jumps down into the gutter with a Korean OEM, Kimpo, wasting the good will and reputation built over decades by the real engineers that used to (and no longer will) work there - GG Carly! Give me a Casio over a new HP any day.
For me, the most important reason I like RPN is that I don't have to save intermediate results and recall them later. They are pushed onto the stack. This turns out to be a much more intuitive and easy way to evaluate large expressions. You don't have to remember that you saved the 1st and 4th parts of the numerator in memory slots 1 and 2 and that the two parts of the denominator are in slots 3 and 4. If you don't ever need to evaluate complicated expressions RPN might not be that much of an advantage to you.
-Dan
This thing has a 6502 processor?
Can it run Apple II software?
I just have to ask.