Slashdot Mirror
Semacode - Hyperlinks For The Real World
An anonymous reader submits "Semacode is a fascinating concept - it involves encoding a standard network/web URL in visual form (essentially a 2D bar code) that can be displayed in the real world for people to 'read' with semacode-enabled connected devices. The reference platform for now is the Symbian/Series 60 phone platform - specifically, the Nokia 3650 . Semacode also works with the Nokia 6600 and 7650 camera phones."
Hummmm, special 2d barcodes to relate product infomation to consumers? CueCat anyone?
It was a device calle dthe CAT. You could get one free from radio shack. It would connect between your keyboard and computer. And you could scan Generic UPC barcodes to get to the corresponding site. I tried it and it usually worked. Unfortunatly I couldn't find a viable use for the device.
RatioShack did this a few years back with the Cue codes on the pages of their catalog. As I remember a few magazines also printed Cue barcodes on ad pages - so you could just swipe the Cue and voila, be at their website.
Are they going to give me a free Nokia to read the code, like RadioShack gave away the wand?
OK, I didn't RTFA, but wasn't this same concept widely used in Japan awhile ago (and maybe still is)?
We all remember how well that one flew...
I've got an idea, let's shape the readers like some weird half dead cat, and then give away a million readers and start suing people who actually use them!
What's the problem with scribbling "www.sashdot.org" on a sheet of paper? This gets my vote for the 2004 Useless Technology Award.
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
Yeah...scanning a bar code for a website is a great idea. Wish I would have thought of that.
1. Steal someone's unsuccessful idea
2. ???
3. Profit?
Probably not...
Didn't somebody try this with a perepheral barcode reader a few years ago? I don't see a whole lot of use for it, though it's more likely someone will be walking around with a cell phone than a barcode reader.
Uh huh, yeah, been there, done that, have the funny cat shaped thing still connected to my computer.
this is just what I need, a new way for trolls to fool me into seeing the goatse man.
wasn't this already done with images that you could put up to your webcam? Ah yes, here it is: http://www.digimarc.com/
Why erect non-human readable signs where they get in the way? What are the benefits of me being able to see this large thing other than to know something is there?
And I know I'll be shouted down for this, but isn't this a much better application for something like RFID? (technical issues, notwithstanding) What's wrong with having this information in the airwaves and some kind of small indicator that a signal is being transmitted?
As many people have pointed out, this is basically a new version of the :CueCat. Only difference I see instead of 'standard' barcodes (Code 39/EAN/UPC) it uses a Data Matrix style. Maybe bundling it with a cell phone might mean it could actually take off this time.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
why can't the software be smart enough to read the printerd characters of a url directly? duh
They're probably not old enough to remember the CueCat.
Or...
Simon Woodside and Ming-Yee Iu are taking a page from Bob Wyman. Post your product as "news" on Slashdot.org. Check it out, there's no article reference. Effectively, this post is a plug for the product/project.
Am I missing something here? Aren't regular barcodes also 2D?
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
If I can go into my local Radio Shack and get the readers for free. What an innovative idea!
Someday an ad exec is going to realize people don't want to see thier damned ads. Of course he'd be instantly torn apart by the pack for showing a clue...
Could this be used (much like the Nintendo e-reader) to encode minigames onto ads or signs? That could be fun.
__________
[Big Brick Wall]
Please put them out of my misery
In 1999 I got a Sony Vaio Picturebook - a paperback book sized sub-notebook that has a VGA camera in the top edge of the screen/lid.
One of the features of the Picturebooks was an app called Cybercode. Cybercode is a barcode generator (not a "2D barcode" - all barcodes are 2D, they have height and width) that generates a code that the PC can see with the Motion Eye camera. The codes have applications, animations or other programs associated with them, and I could run different playlists, for example, just by showing a card to the PC.
The guys at Sony Computer Science Labs built a superb demo of this technology here. I recommend the video at the bottom of the page -- a superb demo of what is possible.
I now have two Picturebooks and still use the newest one regularly. I tried different methods of using Cybercodes, and was able to give presentations at college where I ran the VAIO though a laptop and had Cybercode finder running. As I talked about different topics in the lecture, I showed the back of my note cards to the Motion Eye, and the VAIO ran video clips on command.
Now wash your hands.
What's wrong with just posting information on packages, as it is now? And why should I waste my money, to use my phone to view an extra useless ad?
And unless this all works together "very" quickly (not more than 10 seconds), nobody will even bother. I know I certainly won't.
Can anyone think of anything this can be used for, which can not be accomplished by simply posting the information on a sign, packaging, or normal paper ad? (which are free to use, unlike the phone)
The basic system which they showed in use allowed you to take a picture of a barcode in a store with your cell phone, and it would bring up a picture and description of the product with some usefull info attached (nutritional info for food items for example.)
This was just a beta type product, and they were planing on expanding it's capabilities. I think one of the things they said they were considering was to have it bring up prices for the same item at other nearby stores.
As for the CueCat, that sounds like a half-assed early implementation of the idea. You had to have your computer there whenever you wanted to scan a barcode in. The advantage of cell phones with built in cameras and internet is that you now have an extremely portable device that will actually be available when you want to use it. I don't know if i's use it myself, but implementing it as part of a cell phone seems about a hundred times more usefull than implementing it as a part of your computer.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Sony tried something on the vaio picturebook ... ....
... :(
... though I can imagine cybercode styled cows running around :)
...
...
it was really cool, we played a bit with putting cybercode all around an environment (a friends apartment) so the picturebook knew "where it was" and executed commands based on the environment
never seen a linux equivalent (as it only ran on MS stuff I never really got interested)
nice try sony, but the technology died
cellphones : dunno... why would I want to hope from an "offline commercial" into an online commercial ?
not commercial ? well I cannot picture a farmer running around with a picturephone, getting online info for his cows
I want to see my tv interfaced to a computer first in a decent way (eg serial interface spits out urls and other stuff related to the program
(ahm well good old europe has teletext)
wouldn't it be easier just to put rfid/bluetooth on those items which would broadcast ?
--
the least thing I want is to carry a camera around in my phone
*say no to color portable displays
*say no to bloat
*say no to battery-eating useless gadgets
and do not use them when driving please
for instance, to have barcodes on the packaging of stuff. For example, this code on the outside of prescription medication could link to the producer's web site, or to medical databases so patients and physicians could easily access important information. It would save hugely on paper. I myself would like to have this on my lab equipment so I could have access to user manuals, technical information, experimental protocols and so on. Let's have it!
----- One learns to itch where one can scratch.
The semacode website actually provides some intriguing uses for this technology. Since it is an open standard, we could think up other uses, but there are three that they mention that make sense to me:
- transit info - nextBus
- A web service to call a taxicab to your present location
- ticket sales from posters (e.g. concerts)
Cellphone prices are falling, and many people no longer even have a landline, so there could be a large market for this.Also, these uses don't cost much if anything. It probably will have a few niches. Can anyone else think of good applications?
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
Obfuscating the URL in an image just hides the information for everyone who doesn't have a fancy phone or just doesn't know how to use it. Use plain URLs on products, then use the phone to photography them and then surf to the web.
If the technology works, it could be really useful to add information to your surroundings. Browsing CDs at the store ? Photography one, get reviews from amazon. Looking at a concert flyer ? Photography it, get a map to the place and order tickets. Reading a magazine article about cool technology ? Photography it, get links about the tech to wikipedia.
The technology has the potential to be really cool, but semacode just plain sucks.
...how to I write "www.goat.cx" or "www.tubgirl.com" in this new format, and will it work printed on a tshirt? That'll keep people from collecting any proper evidence against me with those pesky camera phones.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
Well, the one thing that jumps out in my mind is this.
Imagine you are in a large building on a college campus. You are walking down the hall, and pass by a classroom. The room number is marked in black letters on a plaque, 246. Under the room number is a semacode.
You take out your cellphone, and take a snapshot (read: scan) the semacode. Your cellphone loads up the appropriate URL, giving you information about the room.
Through the website, you find out what the room is used for, who the technicians / professors are using the room, what the class schedule for the room is, when the professor has open office hours, who is responsible for maintenance of the room, what the phone extension in the room is, etc. And you get a bunch of links to follow from there.
All of that information available in an instant.
Of course, there is the issue of the ubiquity of this type of technology, but if it does become very popular, this is a very real accomplishment.
Employ the same type of situation in a museum display, perhaps or art or rocks.
I think it has a pretty amazing potential, but only if it's adopted widescale. If not, then its just one of those cool things that you brag about to your friends, and after that nobody cares.
...URLs were meant to help avoid precisely this!
Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
that will be awesome until they start spoofing urls. you'll be price checking in aisle 2, click on a link, and then be at goatse.cx...
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
I really can't see how this is revolutionary.
As has been mentioned this bears some resemblance to the failed CueCat thingy. Also, why would I want to post these 2D barcodes all over the place?
Why not use BlueTooth for this? You get close to a 'beackon' and a little icon appears on your phone, if you choose to click the icon it takes you to the desired URL.
Soon, the MPAA will put ones in movies that cause phones to report in to the MPAA.
Now I can post goatse links on every building in town! No phone user will be safe!
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
But that is the beauty of this spec: It's *not* designed to make you look at someone's damned ads. Sure, that is a application, but definately not the only intention. This is to save you from having to use your little keypad on your phone to type in a URL. That is all that is in these barcodes: a URL.
They have these in on your driver's license, in certain states. Check yours to see if you have one. I know mine, Texas, does not :(
There's a site somewhere that will tell you what your 2d barcode says if you send them a pic of it, can't remember the URL...
Did you mount a military-grade, variable-focus MASER on an unlicensed artificial intelligence?
I know that HP's CoolTown is mainly marketing chum, but at the core was actual research into linking the web to physical items. When you're considering what to do with semacode, you should check out some of the CoolTown IEEE submitted research papers. Oh, and here's a fluffy article on bridging URLs to meatspace.
Encoding the URL is assinine. The whole thing works by capturing and decoding an optical pattern. So don't encode the URL. Just print the damn thing out. That way I can see the URL and decide for myself how I want to access it.
No one is going to trust some magazine ad to give them a code to get some information. Forget it. Don't encode the URL and let people decide for themselves.
http://www.tinyurl.com/foobar/ -- does a barcode *really* make this easier?
why not just use OCR?
The advantage of this is that it's simple and cheap. Anyone can print out a code and stick it anywhere they want. Of course that will lead to problems too; you can bet scummy advertisers will be making stickers out of these this and plastering them on everything.
Manufacture in China
Yes, all barcodes are printed in 2D space, but the 2D moniker does not mean how it is printed.
Traditional barcodes have information encoded only in one dimension. Technically you could print a barcode in 'one dimension', however, it would be very difficult to scan. The height is only there to facilitate scanning. That is why they can be called 1D barcodes.
2D barcodes, on the other hand, have information encoded in 2 directions. That is why instead of lines they use squares.
Imagine the new 2-d barcode spam. Unscrupulous persons will sneak around and replace these barcodes with barcodes linking to pay-per-view porn sites and penis enlargement products.
If this is considered "fascinating" or "new", then this just tells us that the Slashdot editors / submitters are easily amused, and/or have really short memories.
This was a crappy idea 5 years ago, when I first heard about it. I don't see how it could have improved since then.
If you're to take a technologically oriented solution to having to type a url why not just make signage use bluetooth or some such wireless technology to pass the url to these devices?This is just silly Wired magazine style gadgetiering technofetishism to my eyes. Bo-ring!
_nfotxn
There is an entire site based around the idea that cuecats can be useful. All you have to do is take a cheap piece of technology such as a cuecat, and find a use for it that actually makes sense.
Mediachest allows you to use your cuecat to scan in your collection of DVDs, Games, CDs, and Books to create a catalog and then enable real life file sharing(trading/lending out items you own with people near you for items that you want) that can never be shut down by the RIAA or MPAA.
Semacodes could be very useful in the near future as well. The right application in the right environment is all you need. I scan see them being very useful in museums and places where you can use your phone as an interactive guide based on items you are looking at.
I think the key issue here is that they are trying to make it easier for people with cell phones to put in URLs. I'd much rather scan a semacode than type a long url.
I remember reading 'The Naked Sun' by Asimov written in 1957. I was amazed that he had thought of a method of uniquely identifying each robot on the planet by each having a 'badge' comprising an 8x8 checkerboard. OK, so he didn't include any error correction codes, but the 2-D barcode concept is, I'm afraid, very old hat.
I see a similar concept in Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex, for reading books and TV digital onscreen data.
Big deal! Good grief, anyone would think that processing data in 2D is something new.
Come on people. What you are reading is a 2D barcode. http://slashdot.org is encoded in 2D.
Sure its not a barcode, but there is no real difference. You can process both by scanning a 2D matrix. Mandating a specific font and size (which will be the case with semacode as it is with barcodes) will make it possible to make scanners that work with standard URLs.
Semacode prevents anyone without the camera from reading the URL, whilst if it was written in standard Western Alphabet it would be readable.
What - criticism because people will use different fonts? If its OK for semacode to us a single font (the square representing one bit), then its OK to mandate that publicly scan-intenable URLs are also a simple-to-scan font.
You could do that, or you could just use plaintext URLs and equip your cameraphone with OCR capability.
For great justice.
Nokia aren't the only ones attempting this. There are also bango spots which are basically the same thing. Although the idea behind a bango spot is that it's more aesthetic and can be placed in ads etc. The idea behind these is that you would use it to access content by taking a picture of the corner of a billboard or other ad that may contain no writing at all.
Many camera phones in Japan have this already built in. See this blog post (with pictures).
I remember reading a few years ago about a project to turn GPS coordinates into URL's so you could leave and retrieve information about any location in the world. for example bad restraunt, good bookstore, things like that. Basically you could blog by location. Now that cell phones are required to have GPS built-in for 911. Anyone know if this idea is moving forward?
it's like a beowulf cluster of barcodes...
posting AC because, well, that was a really dumb joke.
/.ers might be interested to know that I did all the building and compiling on Linux. Normally, you can't do that, but there's a free tool by Rudolf Koenig called sdk2unix that converts the windows sdk to a really cool makefile based system on linux.
.
I wrote up my experiences here in this HOWTO,
HOWTO develop Symbian apps using Linux and OS X
Simon Woodside (semacode developer)
home page
...or on the back of a business card with contact details.. seems more appropriate.
To learn about ongoings in the technology community...good or bad.
It wasn't a crappy idea, it was crappy execution. It was created and controlled by a doomed to fail sector of dotcom'ers who where sure that the masses just couldn't get enough from endless pages of boring adds that they would want to jump online and find out more.
The idea, whether new or old still has potential because no one has got it right. If we end up having to pay for this technology it will fail. If its left open so that it can be ported for any phone/OS/camera (pda's have cameras) and anyone can print out the code...Then it will work.
Why does everyone automatically assume that this has to provide us with more information about products? My cue:cat? it is now happily scanning cd's and groceries into my computer. I run out of chick peas..scan the can...my next grocery list tells me what I need to replace.
Determining whether something is 'fascinating' should be left to the individuals...the ones who can take an idea, cultivate it, and turn it into something that benefits them.
Just wait until your GOATSEMACODED!
Now you can make comercial for your webpage that only for cell phone geeks and slashdot readers will understand. Isn't that great?
Lets imagine that we have built an AI that is able to autonomously move about in a given area, our lab.
We wantto train the AI how to identify objects, people and items that it "sees" with its digital camera. One way to do this is build a really extensive algorythym which will analyze the visual data, and "think" associations and discern information about the seen object.
Aditionally, we can use cues to provide contextual information about objects thatthe AI will see from a backend source which does notrequire processing locally on the AIs part to identify.
If our lab environment had objects which had 2d barcodes on them - the AI could see an object, see its 2d barcod tag and instantly retrieve info about the visualized subject.
We could still employ the AI code for calculating #D space as it moves about - but it can then be provided with contextual information about the objects it sees. as it learns, it can learn to associate 2d barcodes with object shapes, so that in the future when it encounters them - it only really need to recall the semacpde 2d barcode on the object to pull contextual information again on that same - or similar object. Ideally - it should also be able to write information to the backend DB to update semacodes and relate them... memories if you will.
There are lots of reasons. For example, a bus stop might have a timetable with one of these symbols next to each entry. You'd just hold your phone up to the one you want to check, and it would connect to the proper web page and show you where that bus is on its route and how long until it reaches your location. Instantly.
So why no print the URL in a human readable form, using a clean font that is a snap to OCR?
For your cellphone the result is the same. You scan the code and are instantly connected to the applicable website. Only the internal details are different: The cellphone (if it doesn't do the OCR itself) forwards the image to a server that OCRs it and returns (or redirects to) the appropriate URL.
But now you can ALSO:
- Enter it into your wi-fi equipped but scannerless laptop.
- Write it down to use later at some other terminal.
No special buttons to press or codes to enter, and with no expensive hardware needing to be installed at the bus stop.
Ditto. Does everything the barcode would do and more. And doesn't cut the human out of the loop.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I love this!! Now I can run around with my barcode enabled phone all over town, surfing for free porn at bus-stops!!
First, cellphone cameras are typically around 352x288 resolution. OCR typically needs 300 dpi resolution for 10 point text, which is equivalent to needing around 40 pixels per character (as there are 72 points per inch). So 352x288 means you can only have nine characters of width and seven characters of height (in portrait orientation), so you'd be printing URLs like this:
In that form, it's not particularly useful for a human anyways.Next, you have the issue of complexity. There are many orders of magnitude between an OCR algorithm and a simple 2D barcode reading algorithm. The barcode reading software can be installed on current generation cellphones, using only a few kilobytes of memory and operates instantly. OCR software would require several orders of magnitude more memory and computing power, and simply isn't feasible on today's phones.
Make sense?
I mean, most phones with cameras have the capability built-in to send pictures to email addresses - Why not put the decode engine on a mail address, then print the address under the matrix code. (Yes, you have to type the address in, but only once. And isen't [decode@sematext.org] easier to type than [Http://www.geocities/SiliconValley/2146/Home.htm] or [http://www.sbtranspo.com/route_map_13.php]?)
Corporations could track my travels!
Lets say a company has billboards all over the place and knows people scan their code everytime they pass another billboard. Company can put unique info in each billboard(geographical location and time) and tie it to cookies and ip info and such when I visit the site. Or at the very least can know where all their long time internet visitors most likely lives as long as they scan in at least one local sign. All without asking the consumer for such info.
All in all though, I think it sounds kind of cool.
Why the '@' symbol on the sign? To me, that means email, not web. Are they hijacking the '@' symbol, or is it's use changing to mean something different - "the internet" perhaps?
Max.
Cuecat Anyone ?
--- "I didn't think anyone would understand it" -Prof. Bob Muller
There is already a standard form.
It's called the alphapet.
Seriously, what's wrong with simply printing the adress ? Works fine and can be read by anyone not blind - and blind can't read bar codes either, because they don't know where to aim.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Korea Times story from June of last year check the text under the picture....
tst
"There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
I tried it in Japan this week. Take a photo with your camera phone and it decodes the message. Superimposed cropmark-like crosshairs ensure the entire encoded field is captured.
Or should we limit this entire thing to the 5% of camera phones on the market with the onboard processing capability sufficient to process this without locking up?
And from the customer's viewpoint, the bandwidth sure would suck (What, $.35/picture?), but isen't that why the phone services implement/advertise this sort of thing in the first place? (See: AOLBuddy, which will let you get information like weather reports, Sports scores and what have you via AIM, if your phone supports it... And you don't mind having to send 25 (m)ore messages @.10/ea to get to "Van Helsing".)