Slashdot Mirror


Welcome to the 'Plogging' World

Roland Piquepaille writes "No, it's not a typo. A plog is short for 'project log' like a blog is short for 'web log.' And plogs start to be used as tools to manage projects, especially in the IT world, as discovered Michael Schrage of the MIT. He reports his findings in an article published by CIO Magazine, "The Virtues of Chitchat." Schrage found that if plogs are not really commonplace, they're not exactly rare. And they are even used to manage large IT projects, such as ERP rollouts. I totally agree with him that a plog is of great value to integrate people in a team or to keep track of the advancement of a project. And you, what's your view? If you're a project manager, do you use a plog for better control? And if not today, will you use one in the future? This overview contains selected excerpts from Schage's article which will help you to answer the above questions."

185 comments

  1. Plogging for defense and security by tcd004 · · Score: 4, Informative

    See this interesting short piece in FP about how military contractors, the Office of Naval Research and Law enforcement agencies are testing plogs on their projects and networks.

    Tcd004

    1. Re:Plogging for defense and security by nocomment · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Funny thing is that most people firewall the original "plog" from years ago. Just turn on finger, make a .plan and bingo, instant plog. Of course my .plan always consisted of an ascii middle finger so when someone fingered me, I fingered them back. So maybe this new way is better after all?

      --
      /* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
      /* http://allyourbasearebelongto.us */
    2. Re:Plogging for defense and security by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      Mine was always a gzipped, uuencoded .wav file of me saying, "You really have a lot of time on your hands, don't you?"

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    3. Re:Plogging for defense and security by Vasan · · Score: 1

      Was I the only one who saw only the letters FP while scrolling down and initially dismissed it as a 'First Post' post?

    4. Re:Plogging for defense and security by mikis · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it would really work in the real world.

      "Hey, Suzy, when is the project deadline?"

      "I don't know yet, but feel free to finger me any time"

    5. Re:Plogging for defense and security by nocomment · · Score: 1

      oh man I wish I had mod points LOLOL!!! (well I do, but I can't mod the same thread I've posted in)

      --
      /* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
      /* http://allyourbasearebelongto.us */
  2. Basecamp for Plogging by gokubi · · Score: 5, Informative

    I recently started using Basecamp from 37Signals for tracking projects. It's basically a "plogging" system with to-do lists, milestones, file uploading, and one of the most intuitive interfaces I've ever used on the web. I've been tracking internal projects in the way described in the article--I think it's great.

    It also makes it really easy to make client-extranet plogs where clients can comment on your entries. Really slick.

    --
    I'm much funnier now that I'm a subscriber.
    1. Re:Basecamp for Plogging by nounderscores · · Score: 4, Interesting

      hmm have to check that out.
      my uni uses tutos.

      and the software engineering documentation subject has "Document the building of your very own team management software" as their semester project

      actually, in order to manage all the docs our team used a combination of roundup, mailman and B2 blog to make our own rapidly developed team work space...
      it was kinda ironic - using a collaborative online project management system to design a collaborative online project management system

      in the end, though, the strain of having 7 people work on 1 document through a webbased interface got too much so we ended up using CVS on the school unix servers

    2. Re:Basecamp for Plogging by TedTschopp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am also a subscriber. I think the system is great. Area's of imporvement: 1. HTTPS 2. Groups 3. Protected catagories (so you can hide stuff from one group and not the other) I sent the developers a request on each item and recieved a response within 15 - 20 minutes saying that those features were in the works. I upgraded my account to a paid account at that moment due to the fact that they had responded personally to my email quicker than most companies respond with automated responses. I can't say enough of this product. It's been a God send to us at Tolkien Online. Ted Tschopp

      --
      Fantasy remains a human right; we make in our measure and in our derivative mode... -- JRR Tolkien
  3. Neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I can't wait to blog in my moblog about plogging. Oh, and kill myself.

  4. Do we need more types? by Bobdoer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We already have blogs, flogs, photologs, moblogs and now these plogs? Someone needs to stop making new terms up and just call them all logs.

    1. Re:Do we need more types? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We already have blogs, flogs, photologs, moblogs and now these plogs?

      You forget the caca-log, or "clog"...

    2. Re:Do we need more types? by ericspinder · · Score: 3, Interesting
      In response to an internal tech newsletter about "what you wanted to see", I anwsered with an idea about an "internal forum" with postings about every project, it's general status, design and questions (and hopefully answers) on technology. Apparently only the name stuck, our "Forum" is an web page form to ask questions, which are to be answered by (appenently) the newsletter staff. In fact, I am only quessing about my idea being turned into an email page becuase I never heard a word back on my suggestion, not even a "hey, thanks" to indicate that it was even read; I suppose other people may have suggested such a "forum" (or even just the general idea).

      I glad the idea has a specific name, now that there is a buzz word attached to the idea maybe someone who matters will pick up on it and champion the idea, it would be useful, no matter what it's called.

      --
      The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
    3. Re:Do we need more types? by sootman · · Score: 4, Funny

      "We already have blogs, flogs, photologs, moblogs and now these plogs? Someone needs to stop making new terms up and just call them all logs."

      There are too many words in English, period. From now on, let's just call all things "things."

      Oh, wait, what's the point of language again?

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    4. Re:Do we need more types? by generic-man · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Blogs," "moblogs," and "plogs" are not words. They are ill-conceived marketing creations, no better than "information superhighway" and "top-speed technology." They exist to perpetuate the myth that personal publishing is going to reinvent the web as a means of communication.

      Weblogs are personal web pages or journals. Plogs are project logs. Photologs are photo journals. Sure, the terms are longer, but they actually sound reasonable compared to "blog."

      --
      For more information, click here.
    5. Re:Do we need more types? by Angostura · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Next week, why the neologism 'Web' should be replaced with 'Internet-based hypertext-linked document system'.

    6. Re:Do we need more types? by generic-man · · Score: 5, Funny

      'Web' should be replaced with 'Internet-based hypertext-linked document system'.

      It's still better than "blogosphere."

      --
      For more information, click here.
    7. Re:Do we need more types? by Plutor · · Score: 1

      > "Blogs," "moblogs," and "plogs" are not words. They are ill-conceived marketing creations, no better than "information superhighway" and "top-speed technology." They exist to perpetuate the myth that personal publishing is going to reinvent the web as a means of communication.

      This is ridiculous. Just because they are trendy and some blowhards make some outlandish claims about them, doesn't mean that they aren't concepts or words. In fact, the use of the words "weblog" and "blog" in the popular press has increased dramatically in the past four years. Standing in the way of contractions just makes you look like a liguistic luddite.

    8. Re:Do we need more types? by NonSequor · · Score: 1

      Point for generic-man!

      --
      My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    9. Re:Do we need more types? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The press uses the words "weblog" and "blog," so that means that they're real words. If you don't believe this, you're a Luddite.


      Once again, the so-called "blogosphere" suckles at the teat of the Old Media they pretend to dethrone. Excuse me while I append "-blog" to all my web searches.

    10. Re:Do we need more types? by arnie_apesacrappin · · Score: 4, Funny
      I believe the word you are looking for is marklar.

      From here if you don't get the reference.

      --

      Still, with a plan, you only get the best you can imagine. I'd always hoped for something better than that. -CP

    11. Re:Do we need more types? by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      While I agree that abbreviated "Internet words" have gone over the top, I do think that personal publishing has had a significant impact on the Web and will continue to do so. It's far easier to get linked to than to get something you say included in, say, the WSJ, so it does distribute the influence of mass media to a far greater degree than has ever happened before.

      Holy cow, I didn't know you were still in Pittsburgh, Jason -- I wondered when I saw your domain name. Cool.

    12. Re:Do we need more types? by mrscorpio · · Score: 2, Funny

      I just hope this doesn't facilitate the return of the Pog.

      Chris

    13. Re:Do we need more types? by yerfatma · · Score: 1

      Remember blogs? They're back in pog form!

    14. Re:Do we need more types? by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      "Alf, he's back, in Pog form" - Milhouse

    15. Re:Do we need more types? by Mr.+No+Skills · · Score: 1
      In fact, the use of the words "weblog" and "blog" in the popular press has increased dramatically in the past four years. Standing in the way of contractions just makes you look like a liguistic luddite.

      The problem with "plog" (project log) is that a log of project notes has existed for a long time, and a this "plog" is hard to distinguish the paper version or the client/server version from the web version. So, I think "bplog" for "web project log" (pronounced "buh-plog") should now be accepted as an official new word for the trade rag dorks to start using.

      And woe be to him that stands in the way of my new contraction!

      --
      Sleep is for the Weak
    16. Re:Do we need more types? by generic-man · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Holy cow, I didn't know you were still in Pittsburgh, Jason -- I wondered when I saw your domain name. Cool.

      Yup, I'm still working for a small software company in the Burgh. You know me, but I don't recognize your nickname. Who are you? You can reply by e-mail (use the address on my home page) to avoid more off-topic posting. :)

      --
      For more information, click here.
  5. What a... by skraps · · Score: 2, Funny

    shameless plog.
    har, har.

    --
    Karma: -2147483648 (Mostly affected by integer overflow)
  6. Ah, like the old .project file by Mick+Ohrberg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Brings back memories, when we would check out each others' .project files... Hopefully this tool will be a little easier to manage.

    --

    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

  7. one word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    pwiki.
    They make for excellent documentation both for old and for new developers/users

    1. Re:one word by Paulrothrock · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I think this would be an excellent idea. I'm new to my current organization, and have no way to find out information except for the rather time-consuming process of calling/emailing/asking people. And when I do find something out, I have no way to record it except memory or, if I'm lucky, an email exchange.

      Setting up an organization-wide wikipedia for all issues from how the lunchroom works to how to contact payroll to the business logic for a certain process would provide an invaluable resource. And since it's editable by everyone, you don't have to worry about getting it up to MIS to change the Intranet. And authentication could be handled by the current login/password system...

      I like it. Thanks for making me look good at the meeting with the new CIO.

      --
      I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
    2. Re:one word by gmuslera · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm using TikiWiki for projects, it provides me wiki pages, individual blogs for separate projects (and with wiki syntax), basic java drawing program for adding diagrams and collaborate on them, forums, comments and some granularity on permissions (i.e to limit what people can do on one project or another). The tool have a lot of more ways to collaborate, but with those functions are enough for most normal uses.

  8. Following this naming scheme by pavon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Richard Stallman's page would be a Freedom Log, one of many in the new flogging scene.

    1. Re:Following this naming scheme by gokubi · · Score: 2, Funny

      Rumsfeld is starting his Strategic Log for the war in Iraq titled, "Iraq: A Long, Hard Slog"

      --
      I'm much funnier now that I'm a subscriber.
    2. Re:Following this naming scheme by Noxx · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's "GNU/Flog" you insensitive clod!

      --
      Study everything, you'll find something you can use - Jason Bourne
    3. Re:Following this naming scheme by donnyspi · · Score: 1

      For the math types out there: nlogn

  9. Cue the Comic Book Guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Worst. Fake word. Evar.

  10. SF by Leffe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Could you consider SourceForge a 'plog'?

    1. Re:SF by Mick+Ohrberg · · Score: 1

      Amen to that - as well as FreshMeat.

      --

      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

    2. Re:SF by It'sYerMam · · Score: 1

      General summary: "plog" is a pointless buzzword to make open source sound new, when OSS and the thing plog describes have been around for ages.

      --
      im in ur .sig, writin ur memes.
    3. Re:SF by SpaceJunkie · · Score: 1

      Or its a nice single word summing up the concepts embodied by SourceForge, and other open source repository and group collaboration, source version control etc systems.
      True the concept is not new - but naming it is. Now wheres the caffeine-enriched-vegetable-matter refreshment dispenser(aka Coke Machine)?

      Another great example - that round thingy you use to make pushing things along easier, you know the one which tends to roll downwards and one avoids reinventing.

      --
      OrionRobots.co.uk - Robots From sol
  11. links by thebra · · Score: 4, Informative
  12. interesting... by kistral · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm not sure that this site is working under the same definition of "plog", but then again, I had never heard of a "project log" before this article.

    1. Re:interesting... by crschmidt · · Score: 1

      Speaking as ex-development manager for the site, we were working under the defintion "People Log" - an alternative to LiveJournal, at the time. More oriented toward hardcore bloggers - Trackback, and other things, included, Plogs.net has always offered a cheap alternative for those people who want a large scale product but don't want to set it up themselves.

      --
      -- Christopher Schmidt YouTube Quality of Experience
    2. Re:interesting... by Veshtaj · · Score: 1

      Then again, plogs.net could adapt to the new definition. Plogs.net is a fork of the livejournal code meant to provide "a more professional blogging experience" or some such. One has to pay in order to do anything besides comment on other people's plogs, so server response is pretty good.

  13. Star Trek by danormsby · · Score: 5, Funny
    Why are there all these abbreviations anyway?

    Never heard James T. Kirk put an entry in the clog.

    --
    Omnis amans amens
    1. Re:Star Trek by beaverdown · · Score: 1

      My first name starts with "G". Can I start calling everything I write a glog?

  14. We all knew it would come to this... by jiffah · · Score: 5, Funny

    O.K. it's time to shut off the internet. Thanks for your participation everybody.

  15. tlog? by lacrymology.com · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If a web log is a blog, then shouldn't project log be a tlog?

    -m

    --

    #
    # Modus Ponens
    #
    1. Re:tlog? by lacrymology.com · · Score: 1

      Dammit! I posted mine first! :(

      -m

      --

      #
      # Modus Ponens
      #
    2. Re:Tlog? by persaud · · Score: 1

      Not cute enough for phoenetic morphing into an Oxford-dictionary noun.

    3. Re:Tlog? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      of course!
      actually Plog means "craP log"

    4. Re:tlog? by croddy · · Score: 1

      sounds like klingon.

    5. Re:tlog? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, the mods are retarded. Sorry.

    6. Re:tlog? by mrmez · · Score: 1

      you stole my Score:5 Interersting!!!!! doggonit! However, my comment was going to be: If "plog is short for 'project log' like a blog is short for 'web log.'" then shouldn't it be called a "tlog?" I think that if the term must exist then "plog" is preferable, but the original post's comment would only be correct for the term "tlog."

    7. Re:tlog? by Micro$will · · Score: 1

      No, in Kilingon, it would be Q'log. On some planets they make tasty corn flake breakfast cereals, but it 's a curse word on others.

      Yeah, totally offtopic.

    8. Re:tlog? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If an obsessive-compulsive slashdot reader ruminates in the woods, does anyone care?

    9. Re:tlog? by SpaceJunkie · · Score: 1

      Kilingon? Whats that? Hard Right Nationalist british tv presenters with ridged heads? Or would this be Kilinroyon?

      --
      OrionRobots.co.uk - Robots From sol
  16. like its new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    also known as a Diary !
    also known as human literay static

  17. Tlog? by Mwongozi · · Score: 0, Redundant
    Shoudn't a project log be called a "tlog"?

    Web log
    Project log.

  18. Duh! by imidazole2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People have been project blogging for a while. So someone comes up with the term PLOG and gets on slashdot? sigh.

    --

    -Imidazole2
    1. Re:Duh! by drooling-dog · · Score: 1

      I was with a company that was doing this back in the early 80s, first with a conferencing program called "Confer" (I think) and then using internal newsgroups. Or was it the other way around? I forget. Anyway, it worked extremely well, both for the management of multiple projects and for bug tracking. As I recall most of the non-technical management team was a bit suspicious of it, however...

  19. Workplace Wikis are useful by mikemacd · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've found that WIKIs can be useful as a collaboration tool in the workplace.

    It can be a free form tool to coordinate various teams and projects. Its important to bear in mind though that even the best tool is no replacement for good management.

    The WIKI I'm currently using is TWIKI which is GPL'd.

    1. Re:Workplace Wikis are useful by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It can be a free form tool to coordinate various teams and projects. Its important to bear in mind though that even the best tool is no replacement for good management.
      IMHO, a free-form logging tool or discussion board serves two valuable purposes:

      1) On a free-form weblog or discussion board, it is much easier to be honest about problems. Compare that to formalised documents such as progress reports, where most people tend to play down issues because they think they can fix them themselves before the next report is due, or because they don't want to make their boss (or themselves) look bad on a formal and perpetually archived document. Good management requires good and timely information... our company has an unmoderated board with lots of flames, gripes and complaints, and if I were the CEO, I'd take a peek at that board every now and then.

      2) Formalised document hierarchies can sometimes be rather a discouragement to recording the odd thought, idea or issue. Should this be a memo, briefing note, how-to, FYI bulletin, technical subsystem spec or should it go on the ARID log? Where do I file it? Does it need to be reviewed? Sometimes, not having a lot of structure can be good, and weblogs can provide such an environment.
      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:Workplace Wikis are useful by Valluvan · · Score: 1

      A combination of blog (time based), wiki (document based) covers most ground for team communication. We use Serendipity and Mediawiki at this site.

      --

      Science as a way of life.
    3. Re:Workplace Wikis are useful by surprise_audit · · Score: 1
      Management that actually has a clue would be good, agreed.

      I got sucked into a project that is, in effect (and IMHO :) downgrading our ability to monitor some of the systems we host for other companies. The *only* reason is to bring us in line with the rest of the company. In fact, according to one of the instigators, if we took on board a client who was using absolutely the best monitoring tools ever built, yep, we'd downgrade them too...

      My point? The project manager seems to be a whiz at using MS Project and associated tools, but he knows absolutely nothing about any of the monitoring tools. In the 5 months or so since we started, he hadn't even seen the monitor displays until last week... I suppose that's what you get when you have a group who's only function is project management - their only expertise lies in being project managers, and they don't have to be too bright for that.

    4. Re:Workplace Wikis are useful by irontiki · · Score: 1

      Ditto on TWiki here. Built in search, built in revision control. TWiki rocks!

      We have the bugzilla plugin so we can trivially link to bugs, we track status with the discussion form plugin, we throw in links to code via our cvsweb and simply use the shit out of it. We've been using it for 5 months and would be crippled without it.

    5. Re:Workplace Wikis are useful by MoobY · · Score: 1

      I second the importance of wikis as project and work management systems. We use one at work and are very happy about it. There's no need to explain something twice, as it's on the wiki. Also, the level of communication in our work group has (slightly) increased. I'm currently sick for a week, stuck at home, not able to get to work. The wiki allows me to stay in contact with the people at work and some of the progress of running projects and technical problems.

      However, we are still in a slow start of our wiki. Working with a wiki may not have a steep learning curve, it has a slow growth curve. A lot of fresh creativity, energy and attention is required in order to get your information running and updated. As the system gets familiar, things might be used as a reference, but can stop early too as a result of lack of creativity.

      One last thing. The best wiki I've seen, already years ago, was our student union's. But it has not survived recent upgrades of the maintainers and has gone offline. There was an amazing input of creative ideas, and reached MiB's in size in just a couple of months. About 50 users had lots of fun with the system and its changing contents was the daily topic when we were together.

      --
      --- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
  20. Plog, Blog,... by thenextpresident · · Score: 4, Funny

    all make me think of Barf's (John Candy) line in Spaceballs:

    "I'm a mog. Half-man, half-dog. I'm my own best friend."

    --
    Jason Lotito
  21. jabber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where I work (major corp), engineers just spend all day logged into chatrooms via jabber to keep in touch and discuss things.

  22. Discussion groups by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For small projects, a "Wiki" system is nice because it is informal. It is kind of like a bunch of named note-pads where anyone (given access) can edit content. It has simplified editing conventions to avoid having to type HTML. For example, a bullet point can be created (upon rendering) simply by including an asterisk at the begginning of a paragraph. (Different wikis have different conventions.)

    But for larger groups a more formal "discussion group" may be more appropriate to keep track of who wrote what. These are generally hierarchical, AKA "threaded". The problem many of them have is that it is difficult to reference stuff outside of the hierarchy. They should use some kind of message numbering system so that one can easily make cross-branch references by typing in message numbers.

    However, many managers are not used to such systems and are sometimes intimidated by them. Some tend to be "verbal-oriented".

  23. Really now. by DAldredge · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Do we really need 42 different names for what is basicly the samething?

    1. Re:Really now. by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      Everyone wants to say "you know, *I* coined ". The Internet provides fertile ground for taking this into overdrive.

      Damned if I know why -- it's not as if it's some kind of impressive contribution to mankind or very difficult to coin a word, but...

  24. Quit quoting from other blogs by Animats · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Too many Slashdot stories are coming from other blogs. Quote from original content, please.

    1. Re:Quit quoting from other blogs by theguru · · Score: 1

      Since when has Slashdot ever had "original content"? Oh, you want more John Katz?

      Slashdot is just a place to consolidate links to articles posted elsewhere on the web. As more and more *logs are appearing on the net, it only stands to reason that more and more Slashdot stories will be links to a log. I prefer them to the daily NYT article links.

  25. My experiments in my team with a blog. by thehive · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A few months back i setup a blog to help out our team to help manage the knowledge we acquire throughtout the projects duration. My managers fourtunately approved it. Though it was well recieved throught the team, very few knew what a blog actually is and very few have actually used it. It is rather unfortunate that some employees do not do anything other than things which are manadatory. I'm sure people would have used it much more if it was made mandatory to record all their experiences but we know that it's not possible. An oft quoted excuse is time. Blogging does take time and i totally agree with that but what is not being considered is the time that would be saved by someone else who would come across the same problems after a month or two.

    1. Re:My experiments in my team with a blog. by crazy.tyae · · Score: 1
      Perhaps something like Trac might have fit your team better? It's essentially an open source wiki + bug tracking + Subversion interface. I feel that the wiki aspects of it will get used more than a stand alone wiki (in my group) as they'll be interfacing with it regularly anyway for the bug tracking aspects.

      It's written as a Python CGI app, which uses ClearSilver for templating and the Subversion python bindings to surf the repository.

  26. XP by MikeHunt69 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've worked with Thoughtworks on a few projects and they looove XP. They also love the idea of refactoring and used to keep a project wiki for each project - similar to what is being described here, except without the historical info.
    Martin Fowler, owner of Thoughtworks and XP evangelist, keeps a Bliki (his name for a cross between a Blog & a Wiki)

    1. Re:XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So a bliki is a... web wiki? You mean, as opposed to all of those paper wikis? Since blog stands for web log, shouldn't a wiki log be ilog? iLog, kinda catchy... think I'll trademark it. Hell, maybe I could just patent the method of conjoining two words to form a catchy marketing phrase.

  27. piquepaille by SkunkPussy · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Whats the point of linking to another blog? you still have to click on all the links in that blog to get to the article. Does Roland pay slashdot for the traffic slashdot sends his way? I guess this would explain why theres about so many articles which are really summaries of mr piquepailles articles.

    also, the other thing that is fishy is that its always mr piquepaille himself who submits the articles, its never an interested websurfer who thought they might be of interest to the slashdot audience...

    --
    SURELY NOT!!!!!
    1. Re:piquepaille by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have to say, RP's blog is as uninteresting as it comes, and gets way too much Slashdot time. RP almost reminds me of Jon Katz, without the sometime amusing I'm-not-sure-what-was-in-that-cigarette effect.

      MOD PARENT UP, he has a very valid point.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:piquepaille by SkunkPussy · · Score: 1

      yeahs its pretty predictable that my original post would get modded Flamebait. Hopefully some sensible moderator will spot this and rectify the situation or the Piquepaille debate will be trampled underfoot by the slashdot mob. Anyway I have reiterated my points more clearly here and in my journal.

      I hate all these articles from Roland Piquepaille's blog. They strip the story down to the barest, blandest minimum; when you click through to the blog, you still have to then click on the links in the blog to read the story.

      Maybe Piquepaille's articles are good if you don't have the time to read the full story. But if this is the case, what are you doing on slashdot? Slashdot is not for busy people.

      Piquepaille is obviously making a mint with the advertising on his website from all the traffic from slashdot, so is he paying slashdot a cut of his advertising traffic? or is he cynically exploiting slashdot and doing not a lot of work for his advertising dosh? He certainly gets a lot of submissions accepted..

      My final gripe is that it is always Roland himself who submits his own articles, never a websurfer who came across them and submitted them to slashdot on the basis they might be interesting to the slashdot audience. Self promotion.

      Also can anybody think of a good (derogatory) nickname for Piquepaille?

      --
      SURELY NOT!!!!!
    3. Re:piquepaille by Krusty+Da+Klown · · Score: 1

      Jon Katz. Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long, long time.

    4. Re:piquepaille by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems to me that Roland's been submitting on some pretty interesting nerdy topics, especially since they're not the same old MS/SCO/Sun Bad, Linux/RMS Good shit over and over again. And hey, if the guy takes the time to go and find interesting stories, why should he not make a bit from spending his time on getting the articles submitted?

      Have you tried the same strategy and got rejected? If that's happened many times, then yes, we can call it unfair. But if nobody else's stories get consistently rejected for linking to personal blogs, I don't see what the problem is.

      Also can anybody think of a good (derogatory) nickname for Piquepaille?

      He's French. Even with your low levels of intelligence, it should be quite easy for both you English and Americans to find ways to make fun of him.

    5. Re:piquepaille by GileadGreene · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough, Roland appears to have become a /. subscriber...well...today. Either that or he just happened to make his very first comment(s) today, even though he's been submitting articles for about a year (that id looks suspiciously high too). Funnily enough, he appears to have made the contributors to this particular little thread his "friends" now (wonder if I'll make the cut too ;-) Guess you at least managed to get his attention...

  28. In theme with other posts... by lpangelrob2 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    We too also use a Wiki to communicate. Unfortunately a quick glance at the "Recent Changes" page shows the last change was made on February 28th despite three large projects between then and now.

    About the only thing proven here is that when e-mail is shown to be sufficient, it's sufficient, and developers won't be quick to jump to other technologies, even when they are more useful.

  29. For me... by marika · · Score: 1

    they're all flogs. Sorry, unlike wikis, I dislike blogs. I don't dislike bloggers. Unfortunately there are a lot of annoying blogs out there. As usual, it's the few bad ones that makes it all look bad.

    --
    This is totally insecure, but very convenient.
    1. Re:For me... by Xhad · · Score: 1
      As usual, it's the few bad ones that makes it all look bad. As a 'blogger, I don't feel at all uncomfortable saying most blogs are bad.

      Anytime you have an art form where creation and distribution are easy but editorial staffs are nonexistent, you're going to end up with a lot of bad art. That's also half the reason why fanfiction is generally awful.

      Most weblogs suck. Most websites suck. Most books would suck if you could essentially print and distribute them for free like you can with a website.

  30. Oh, goody... by mr_Spook · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Another buzzword for people to throw about like mad. Just what we need.

    Seriously though, my head may be up my ass on this, but could someone tell me just what the difference between all these *logs and the now long-dead .plan files some used to the same purpose? Sure, you don't have to finger for the info as it's all on the web now, but it's the same concept, isn't it?

    1. Re:Oh, goody... by FerretFrottage · · Score: 0

      I was thinking the same thing...these are .plan files for the "masses". That's the why I see blogs in general....just "mass enabled" .plan files. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, easier access to information is a nice thing, but I don't see a difference other than the presentation format.

      --
      "Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
    2. Re:Oh, goody... by surprise_audit · · Score: 1

      I think part of the attraction of *logs is that other people can comment on what's written, assuming that's enabled, which it would need to be for a project log. The log is a living document built out of contributions from all the members. That would be tricky to do with a .plan file.

  31. Yep, it's helpful. by SerialHistorian · · Score: 1

    I manage the creation and customization of project management and other type of web-based software.

    One of the core features of every program is the 'logging' function -- every time a change is made to a record - whether it be a product, project, customer, or ticket status, it's logged and/or diff'ed, timestamped, and recorded. Logs are available below the main information area. Email messages that are passed through the system's mail relay are also recorded and timestamped, and a user can provide a comment at any point (i.e. recording the results or minutes of a meeting that was held earlier.) Users also are required to provide information on what was completed whenever they clock time towards a task or item. So basically, it's mandatory blogging ... or plogging, but that's such an unfortunate term...

    What will be the next concatenated word to take the blogging world by storm? I know! Blogging about snails, snakes, snow, or snarkiness will be referred to as "snogging"...

    --

    --
    Vote for your hopes, not for your fears - Vote Third Party

    1. Re:Yep, it's helpful. by statusbar · · Score: 1
      Blogging about snails, snakes, snow, or snarkiness will be referred to as "snogging"...

      Hey! Sounds like a great idea for my Snail Snog!

      --jeff++

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
  32. Careful now, your projects may inspire others too. by asbestos_tophat · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Careful now, your projects may inspire other companies and people to simply take your work for free. There was a cool clock design that the MCu people designed as a learning platform, and some creative individual swiped the industrial design and sold it to Radio-Shack © (cheers mate! May you ROT in cyber hell.) Unless your project is a non-profit public service or GNU licensed project the implied copyrights of today's web is practically non-existent.


    My personal choice is to publish hardware designs, but to force visitors of the research projects to write their own code (aka .EDU .) There are always options to recreate the same design in a slightly different way to avoid the copyrights, but we don't work for free. ;-)

  33. Prior Art by TequilaJunction · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How is this different than tools we've been using for years like Lotus Notes, eRoom, etc.

  34. Makes sense by jhines · · Score: 1

    A blog is created for or by a person. A plog is for an event or project.

    Given that most people have more than one project going at a time, and are interested in multiple projects.

    With the spring festivals and such in full swing, I can see where a plog would be terrrific for putting together such a community event.

  35. Poop Log by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i call my poop log a plog hence the name plogger.insert_my_domain_that_doesnt_want_to_be_sl ashdotted.org

    and yes it is used to keep track of s%!t

  36. Duh!-Mozilla Development. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Mozilla team [PDF] has been using open forums before a lot of people did.

  37. File storage security by persaud · · Score: 1

    Where are files stored in this system? The description says that only links are on the extranet, but it also talks about file uploading. How are project documents shared with people outside the corporate firewall?

    1. Re:File storage security by TedTschopp · · Score: 1

      Files are uploaded to -your- server by their server. You provide them with a username and password to a files section on your site, and they upload them.

      You can put whatever security you want on your server.

      Ted

      --
      Fantasy remains a human right; we make in our measure and in our derivative mode... -- JRR Tolkien
    2. Re:File storage security by Kent+Recal · · Score: 1

      You can put whatever security you want on your server.

      Before or after I gave them write-access? *scratch*

  38. The lazy mans plog... by coene · · Score: 1

    Just export the CVS checkin log and get on with your day!

  39. I have been building a similar tool set by jrexilius · · Score: 1

    for my corp IT group. Its more wiki-centric but the idea is the same. Its used to help document and communicate.

    I released the first hack on freshmeat a while ago and have been using it in its current ugly form and need to keep refining it, but the ideas are there.

  40. live obs by fraccy · · Score: 1

    This reminds me of what we use to call the Live Observations list, which was supposed to have a carefully documented list of software failures or faults along with related actions and change proposals, but tended to turn into a to-do list/comments/information/oh-shit-its-broken-damn- you repository. Based on a beautifully crafted (hmm) excel spreadsheet, theres no doubt this was a PLog in disguise. I think we all agree that such information exchanges have existed since before computers, and the only value added by any of these systems is to overcome physical limitations in terms of access, and to enable better organisation of large amounts of information through automation. So that begs the question, whats the next revolutionary improvement over a whiteboard?

  41. Logs on the JPL Mars Exploration Rovers by goatbar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not too surprising. We used this all the time for the MER rovers at JPL. We used aim chat groups with a logging robot (easy enough to write one using say Net::AIM). Lots of design discussions and training sessions were done through IM and then became a part of the project documentation. Then grep and search when you forget something. Just don't say anything too obnoxious while chatting...

  42. MS Project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The name may be stupid, but if that's the price to pay for not having to use Microsoft Project any more, then I'm all for it!

  43. Just Wondering.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quote: A plog is short for 'project log' like a blog is short for 'web log.'

    If "web log" is to "blog", shouldn't this be a "tlog" ? ("project log")

    -AC

  44. What do the rest of you use? by broothal · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've been looking for something like this for a long time. Unfortunately, plogging doesn't satisfy my every need. So - let me ask the project managers of slashdot (I know you're out there) - what do you use as project collaboration/management tool? Someone posted a link to "Basecamp" which seemed ok (unfortunately it require credit information just to try a free demo). Are there other tools like that? How do they measure up?

    I've been thinking about wiki, but it's a tad to difficult to be useful - my teams usually consists of developers, DB people, graphic designers, customers etc. They'd never learn the simple wiki markup.

    1. Re:What do the rest of you use? by TykeClone · · Score: 1
      I've got one that I wrote for my job. It's not too complicated - just keeps some "project master" data (title, description, inception and completion dates), categories, keywords, and project history.

      I can search by keyword (my term for "miscellaneous short free text field"), category/subcategory, "open" projects and the like.

      It's real nice for tracking small projects with small numbers of people working on them - makes for a good "working memory" of what you've done to solve problems in the past. Note sure how well it would scale up.

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    2. Re:What do the rest of you use? by Phoukka · · Score: 1

      Take a look at Trac, by Edgewall. Trac is a well-done integration of a project wiki, an issue tracker, and a repository viewer, specifically for Subversion. It works well for me, so I thought I'd plug it a bit.

      Regarding wiki markup, how much markup do you really need? Developers and DBAs shouldn't have an issue learning it, and designers and customers shouldn't need to learn it. They can write plain text without losing much. The point of a wiki is to facilitate communication, not to waste time with excess markup.

      Your "presentation quality" documentation probably shouldn't be written on a wiki, anyway. The content, maybe, but not the actual, end-product document. With Subversion as a dependency, you already have a source repository, so use it. Stick your docs there, and let folks make reference to them in the wiki and the issue tracker. The combination of functions, wiki, tracker and repository, is much stronger than each separately.

    3. Re:What do the rest of you use? by jacoplane · · Score: 1

      You don't have to impose the wiki markup on people. WackoWiki has a visual wiki editor. I'm sure there are other wiki engines out there that have a similar functionality, but this shouls solve the problem you're having...

  45. Best control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're a project manager, do you use a plog for better control?

    I've always found flogging to work best for control.

  46. Email analysis might be a better tool by GileadGreene · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Blogs or plogs are all well and good, but the problem is that getting anyone to write any kind of documentation is hard. There will always be design decisions that get made but never recorded. Personally, I think that the method of extracting design rationales from an analysis of a project email archive that was proposed in this paper would be more useful than a plog, in that it captures the actual consensus and decision-making process, rather than relying on people to go out of their way to write extra information down after the fact. Admittedly, it misses decisions made in verbal interchanges, but it does catch a lot of stuff that would otherwise be missed (I know that many of the projects I've worked on recently have resolved many design issues via email exchanges).

    As an aside: who is Roland Piquepaille, and how does he manage to get an article in /. every other day?

  47. Nostalgia... by igrp · · Score: 3, Interesting
    We used to use .project files to keep track of schedule changes, progress and project-related problems we had run into, too. It actually worked very well in small to medium-sized development groups.

    We would timestamp our .project files and each of us would have their login script finger the other group members, compare the timestamp to the one stored in a flat database (ASCII file) and then, if there were any changes, display the output of the finger command.

    Simple, yet effective (plus, it was geeky enough to make sure that nobody outside of R&D or Coding ever bothered to check the status of projects).

    These days, unfortunately, hardly anyone seems to be running fingerd and it's virtually always firewalled off to the outside world.

  48. Potential problem by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 1

    This sort of thing might invite comments from unqualified people. The classic case is the engineering manager telling a graphic designer how to design a logo. I prefer to read the CVS comments I get in my email from people that are working on the same code as myself. Some people are very good at it, it's very entertaining!

    --
    Drill baby drill - on Mars
  49. I call dibs on the next one! by Xzzy · · Score: 1

    We call it "flog".

    Because that's the point where the people who are tired of these silly logs clogging up web searches form up into groups, hunt down the "loggers" and, well, flog them.

    These are the things I amuse myself with while falling asleep at night.

  50. and I will say it again by falcon5768 · · Score: 1
    after I heard the term mblog

    THIS HAS TO BE STOPPED!!!

    is it REALLY that hard to just say Mobile Log, or Web Log that we need to shorten it?

    --

    "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

  51. ultimate in Karmawhoring by Scott+Richter · · Score: 1
    I have to say, RP's blog is as uninteresting as it comes, and gets way too much Slashdot time. RP almost reminds me of Jon Katz, without the sometime amusing I'm-not-sure-what-was-in-that-cigarette effect.

    An interesting and pretty damned apt analogy. I've truly never understood the appeal of weblogging. Most people have absolutely nothing insightful to say, and as oft observed, their weblogs are barely more than poorly concealed plagiarism and linkfarms. I also have no idea what gives people the idea that other people give a shit what they think. Getting a few "+5"'s past the typically braindead /. mods does not qualify. These are the same people who don't check links and end up giving tubgirl a "+5."

    I'd put RP in with that unless he actually is doing what g'parent is implying, just submitting his shit to /. so he can profit from his sidebar ads. And yes, they are his ads- other people doing weblogs on the same service (radio.weblogs.com) don't have them.

    Talk about the ultimate in karmawhoring.

  52. Plogs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I used to keep all my Project Logging in my .plan file, so that when people used the php-based finger on my team member profile, it would list what I was working on. Older updates got appended to a .plan.old file after at the beginning of each month, so that my thoughts/ideas/plans/etc. never got deleted.

    I have a ton of neat ideas and thoughts on improving development, but in that same respect, I'm extremely forgetful. If I can keep from re-inventing the wheel, so much the better. Plus, what if I were to die in a horrible shopping cart accident? How would my (now ex-)employer recover from the loss? Well, if they were smart, they would look at my home directory and see my project info in plain sight and pick up the pieces in an instant (which they did when they laid me off in 2001), just as I would if I were to take a vacation for a week and come back to work I had left idling.

  53. I wouldn't try to manage a project without one by symbolic · · Score: 2, Insightful


    There are so many details to track, and so many nuanced changes that can creep into the process. Rather than sit and wonder how in hell things ended up the way they are, and even more importantly, why specific courses of action where chosen over others, a project log is an invaluable tool. This is unfortunately, an area where almost every PIM falters miserably, since they all make the same limited assumptions: every event will have a start/end date, a start/end time, and will involve one or more participants. Project logging requires some very basic information: date, time, summary, category, and a text field that can accommodate a lengthy (up to 32K) description. All fields should be searchable. I will be very happy when I see KOrganizer or any of the other common Linux-based PIMs with this feature.

  54. they are good in theory... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they are good in theory but people are very resistance to use them.

    I am currently working on a project with about 10 other people and implemented a log to centralize all the notes and stuff. The log worked perfectly, the managers loved it, but the workers hated it. I couldn't hardley get anyone to actually use it. The common reaction I got was when should I blog? And another responce was that they didn't want people to know what they were doing.... blogs.. plogs whatever you call them will only be useful if the people actually want to use them... and in my case they didn't. so we no longer have/use it.

    1. Re:they are good in theory... by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      The common reaction I got was when should I blog? And another responce was that they didn't want people to know what they were doing.

      Yup.

      If people say "there is problem X", it's just something for their managers to start bothering them about. If people keep saying "everything is fine" and work on resolving things without ever letting out that there is a hangup, they get less pressure from above.

      Also, people may use this informally and not put the effort into a plog that they would a press release -- but it's easy to snag stuff from a plog.

  55. Not fair!! - CSM alert! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He posts (at most) one minute later than some other guy with the same idea, and some CSM (Crack Smoking Moderators) jumps on him like he was 10 minutes late. Chances are this guy was in the "first jump" of posters who saw the story because of his subscription. Slashdot shouldn't be only a race, but based on the quality of the posts. This post much clearly identified the idea by cleaver formating. Perhaps "losing the race" (really coming in a close second) should disqualify him for any points, but it should affect him negitively.

  56. Prolog by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

    Prolog... a Professional Log :-)

    --

    "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

  57. What a stupid name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blog... what a stupid name. People who apparently have enough time to read the stupid things can't find the time to pronounce or type two words?

  58. if it were an IQ test by sesaetaen · · Score: 4, Funny
    web log is to blog, as project log is to:

    1. a) tlog

    2. b) plog
      c) clog

    My logic would tell me a project log was a tlog (+ it sounds way cooler =)
    1. Re:if it were an IQ test by dhowe01 · · Score: 0

      You're right. that's exactly what a was going to point out (lucky a did a page search for "tlog" so I wouldnt look like a *total* spaz)

      *shrug*

    2. Re:if it were an IQ test by hachete · · Score: 2, Funny

      d) flog

      as in "to flog the log", i.e. create a work of fiction to fulfill some project manager's dream of what should be happening. Not that I'm cynical or anything... but

      h

      --
      Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
  59. Re:Do we need more types? --Yes, We Do! by cbass377 · · Score: 1

    We need at least one more. We need a slog. That way we can log al the time we waste on slashdot.

  60. Hey, I just did that. by dmorin · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Here at work we have two primary ways of communicating, when you don't count chance meetings in the hall. First is a Twiki, second is a developer's mailing list. In putting up a blog I'm hoping to address some of the weaknesses of both:
    • Twiki seems best at spec and document level stuff, but not ongoing conversation. You have to put forth a medium amount of effort to set up a twiki topic properly (i.e. don't just put it up and then email people the link -- LINK TO IT from a main contents page someplace!)
    • Twiki gets out of date way too easily. I started working here and found a page called "Todo Items" for my project. Cool, I read it - it was like 2 years old, I had no clue whether anything was still even relevant.
    • Developer's mailing lists, which are great for conversation, are too easily branched and forgotten. I always see email to "developers" and "cc tom and steve" even though tom and steve are developers. Why? PRobably to get more attention in their inbox. Fine. But inevitably a part of the conversation will then go only to tom and steve when somebody hits the wrong reply button.
    • Another problem with developer lists is that not everybody wants to know everything all the time. We already all get enough email. Plus, what if somebody who is not on the developers list is interested in the topic?
    • Email ends up all over the place. I get my work email at home. Sometimes, for whatever reason, I respond from my home address - and then replies sometimes go there, sometimes to work, depending on how people reply. Or I'm at home and I want to see a particular message that I had already popped on my desktop at work - so now I'm grepping through my workstation's filesystem looking for it. A blog would centralize all that, and provide nice searching functionality.

    My team has a number of large projects going at any time. If everybody project reported it's progress regularly to the "all" mailing list we would quadruple our traffic, and nobody would read anything. So instead I plan to set myself up a blog, tell people that it exists, and maintain it. If people want to read it, super. If they want to get into conversation, even better. I was gonna say "If it flops..." but I dont think it will, because at the very least it'll be a place where I can keep all my own thoughts on things and be my own braindumping ground.

  61. web log:blog::project log:tlog by paulrbrown · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't it be "tlog" as opposed to "plog"?

  62. Wouldn't work here by jonasson · · Score: 1

    The users that I develop for are too lazy to read the weekly updates I e-mail them, much less actually go through the effort of reading a web page.

    Maybe if I embedded it in an eBay auction tho...

  63. Really, do you need a "Plog(tm)" to say... by PDHoss · · Score: 2, Funny

    4/14: This project sucks. I hate you all.

    4/13: This project sucks. I hate you all.

    4/12: This project sucks. I hate you all.

    4/11: Hot chick from Marketing was at meeting. Woohoo!

    4/10: This project sucks. I hate you all.

    --
    ======================================
    Writers get in shape by pumping irony.
  64. Been doing it for years by rasqual · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In our case, I wrote a little VB applet that reads an authenticated user's name, formats a header, and so forth. The app simply appends the contents of a file to the newest entry and writes the file out again -- to the share the team uses for other stuff. The file is parked on Active Desktop, and includes a refresh tag in it. Every five minutes the user gets a refresh. This has been wildly popular -- the idea being that a lot of quotidian factoids whose relevance is brief is nevertheless at least very relevant while it is, and may be relevant to some, or all of the team. They can glance at the "tickler" as we call it, and decide for themselves. It took me a while, once blogs became commonplace, to realize that we'd been doing it for some time -- without a web server.

  65. nntp by StrawberryFrog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh look. nntp has been reinvented, only without the standardisation.

    --

    My Karma: ran over your Dogma
    StrawberryFrog

    1. Re:nntp by Schlaegel · · Score: 1

      Years ago, at an old job, we used an internal news server for project correspondence. Most news clients are better than any log app I have seen. It made sense and didn't seem that earth shattering. When someone joined a new project we told them to read all of the old posts.

      We should have called it a 'plog'.

  66. Glog by merphle · · Score: 2, Funny

    Slashdot: The one true glog (*log log)

  67. Stupid .plan tricks by Rufus88 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to be able to tell when someone was fingering me. My .plan was a named pipe fed by a shell script. The script would netstat looking for fingerd connections, rsh to the source host, "ps -aux" for finger processes, and send me the results. I'd then send email to the person, asking "why are you fingering me?".

    1. Re:Stupid .plan tricks by surprise_audit · · Score: 2

      When I first came across named pipes I set up a program that would run '/usr/games/fortune' and send the output to the pipe. Anyone fingering me was pretty much guaranteed to get something different every time.

    2. Re:Stupid .plan tricks by haluness · · Score: 0

      i'd appreciate it if you could point out how to do this (ie send output of fortune to a named pipe when somebody fingers you)

    3. Re:Stupid .plan tricks by surprise_audit · · Score: 1
      Hmmm. That was about 20 years ago, but as I remember it... Among other things, the finger program mainly opens the .plan file for reading, reads the contents, then closes it again. A named pipe is a FIFO that will block a reader (or writer) until something is written (or read).

      So, create the named pipe in your home directory:

      1) mknod .plan p

      Write something to the pipe:

      2) echo "something witty goes here" > .plan

      in another window, cat the pipe:

      3) cat .plan

      You'll see that the echo doesn't complete until the pipe is read. The converse is true - the cat won't complete until the echo writes to the pipe.

      All you have to do now is set up a script that loops around sending the output of /usr/games/fortune to the .plan file. The finger daemon will happily read it out whenever someone fingers you.

    4. Re:Stupid .plan tricks by haluness · · Score: 0

      thanks a lot

    5. Re:Stupid .plan tricks by nocomment · · Score: 1

      How did you keep the buffer going?

      --
      /* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
      /* http://allyourbasearebelongto.us */
    6. Re:Stupid .plan tricks by surprise_audit · · Score: 1
      Assuming you have some kind of Unix system handy - pop up a couple of windows. In the first window:

      mknod named_pipe p
      while true
      do
      echo "hello world" > named_pipe
      echo "message sent"
      sleep 1
      done

      In the second window, enter:

      cat named_pipe

      You should just get a single "hello world", and in the first window you'll see "message sent" as confirmation that it finished sending. The sleep is important - I just tried it out and without the sleep I was getting "hello world" 241 times... Obviously the "hello world" line could be any program that produces output, and the whole while loop could be rewritten in Perl, PHP, C, etc.

      You'll probably want to make the script/program start up when the system boots, otherwise the finger daemon may hang waiting for the .plan pipe to be written to, if someone fingers you while the script isn't running.

  68. Truth be told... by superdan2k · · Score: 1

    ...I've been wanting something like this at the office for a long time now. I'm a project manager, I have ~60 accounts that I am working on simultaneously and with that, it becomes more and more difficult to keep on top of where each project is. If I had something like this where I had all my information and conversation threads under one roof, I'd be sitting pretty. In the end, the one thing that holds up a project -- more than anything else -- is dropped information.

    Time to go write a specification for a new intranet tool. 'Scuse me.

    --
    blog |
  69. Introducing "Chlog" and "Slog" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CHLOG: I have a great new idea to use blogging technology to assist software development. This is especially useful when you have a large team of developers working on a single project. Everytime a developer modifies some code, he or she will "blog" that change on a special blog called "Chlog" -- for "change log"

    SLOG: Here is another cool idea. What's really unique about this idea is that it is not a blog written by a human but rather a blog written by a computer. Anytime an operating system takes an action, it is "blogged" to a blog called "slog" -- for "system log."

  70. logospherics by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    These 'logs are an exciting emerging model of social communications. While they're complimentary to traditional email, and (in their structure) often superior, they do conflict with email, especially regarding searching, archiving and crossreferencing. The best 'logs offer in/out gateways with email, at least for referential notices. How would you prefer to keep your fragmenting collection of inboxes from multiplying by a growing system of exclusive 'logs?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  71. Irony... by bobej1977 · · Score: 1
    Anybody else think it's ironic that after thousands of years of human invention whose culmination is a square inch of pure processing power that can process information at speeds approaching the theoretical limits of information at sub-atomic levels, and we 'discover' a 'new' form of communication, wherein we say what's on our minds on a semi-daily basis and keep it in the order in which it was said.

    The narrative is the oldest form of communication, pre-dating written language as the medium of choice for passing information down through generations of people. Any wonder that it still works pretty darn well to this day?

    I mean sheesh, am I the only one who feels like a caveman whenever I say 'blog' or 'plog' in public.

    --
    The meek shall inherit the earth, in 3 by 6 plots. - Lazerus Long
  72. Management reporting? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    It looks good at first glance (must be the colors :). But no GANTT (or other) charts - just an illustrated calendar view of milestones. How can schedule data be imported to a GANTT chart? They're a brand of "professionalism": clients love them so much that they overlook all kinds of project problems, and complain about good projects when they don't get the charts?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  73. Already done four years ago by scrm · · Score: 1

    Evan Williams and his team, of Blogger fame (bought by Google last year), developed a 'Plogging' app called Pyra back in 2000. Work on it got halted when Blogger started to take off, but I remember trying out a beta version and it rocked. There's a little info still around on Pyra, but not much, and people seem to miss it; the Pyra.com site is now just a brochure for their company, which was also called Pyra.

    I guess the market just wasn't ready for this app in 2000. Credit to Williams and his team for their vision, I guess!

    --
    ---- scrm
  74. bugzilla by Bob+the+Hamster · · Score: 1

    I have been using a one-man bugzilla installation for this very purpose for close to two years now.

  75. Re:Do we need more types? --Yes, We Do! by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    The last thing we need is a slog - especially a long, hard one (deluge of innuendo intended ;).

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  76. Working on a very distributed project by oujirou · · Score: 0

    Had worked on a (closed) project where several developer groups from around the globe were contributing. Pwiki, already mentioned above, BugZilla and a couple of small homebrewn scripts made the project much, much easier.

    I would recommend implementing plogs wherever you think they would fit, since they give the developers and even management the idea of who they are working with and let people produce better results.

    --

    ___
    On Slashdot, Russians comment on YOU!
  77. I call it my development journal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have been writing a "development journal" in all my projects for the last 10 years!

    The important thing is to not only write accomplishments and decisions, but why they happened, a short description of the tough process. When a new developer shows up or a co-worker inherits your old project, the journal brings great respect. It often cuts the learning curve in half, and avoid the newby to rush into this 'great featire' tried beffore and found unusefull.

    In my experience, the non-technical manager is the one that hates the plog the most! Too often when he say "why is that feature like this? It's stupid!", I get the journal out, "meting March 18, manager Damien said, "We don't need a save option, if Window crashes it's not our problem. Remove from the feature list". [long silence, followed by a denial comment]

    Or worst in the yearly reviews where some bland managers that never suggest anything suddenly get spurs of imagination creating a long list of problems from the past year, all good reasons that "you are not worth any big pay increase", even after high praises in the first 10 months of the year. I get out the journal and remind him of what actually happened! But that's really bad in the long run, more than once and time to move on.

    Even when not asked to do so I do my own journal, my own weekly or monthly work description, and project post mortem (in 10 years, none of my bosses ever did one). Funny how project history get changed in just a few weeks!

  78. Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been actively involved in the Internet for the past 11 years, and when I first, recently heard of the idea of blog being an actual word I nearly lost my lunch. Still, when I hear someone utter "web log," to me it means the access/logs on a server. Additionally, the idea of PLOG being a word is even more proposterous. Who are these asshats making up words thinking they're Dr. Seuss?

  79. Wiki by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 1

    I use wiki with my teams for the same purpose.

    --

    Lodragan Draoidh
    The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
  80. Terminology by tarsi210 · · Score: 1

    Blog = Web Log
    Plog = Project Log

    I have a new one:
    Flog = $%&# Log - for all you aspiring mackdaddies out there.

  81. Using MS Word as a Plog (or OpenOffice if you want by kiwi.es · · Score: 1

    Yeah I've been (inadvertently it seems) 'plogging' for several years now, all started from wanting to 'blog' but in projects. The core of what I do involves some simple macros and tables in MS Word. In about 15 minutes you can construct something that inserts a new entry in a table at the top, inserts a date, and moves the cursor to the right place. Then assign it to the key 'alt+enter' and you get this wizzy little portable plog. With the Document Map feature, you can even have 'tracking items' constructed in a hierarchy. Absolutely brilliant use of Word. Now where the hell to find Google for word. Sheesh it's crazy that I can search the internet more easily than the file sitting and staring at me on the screen!

    --
    http://blog.julianonsoftware.com
  82. Buzzsaw by whittrash · · Score: 1

    I am not a big fan of Autodesk, but they have something similar to the plog in their Buzzsaw program. It is a combination ftp/blog/email/server. I am an architect. Many large projects use this kind of software because the management is insane. You have a 6 year, $2 billion airport or chemical plant project involving consultants from all over the world, 10 thousand people work on the project and organizing the data becomes a problem.

    With these plog kinds of tools, the situation is much less hierarchical, everyone can upload information to the entire team at the request of any single individual on the team. If you need whatever specification to whatever widget integrated into the design you can get it in the design fast. You always have access to the most current information.

    Where the system breaks is when people get lazy, and stop uploading. You also have consultants who are only tangentially involved and never take the time to learn the system, so upload rarely.

    The other problem is idiocy. If a consultant gives you crap, you are only integrating crappy info quickly, you then have to spend two weekends figuring out where exactly did the crap come from that hit the fan.

    The other problem is standards. What specs do you use, who is incharge of the spec, how do you test things, quality control, regulation compliance et cetera.

    Another problem is who pays for what. When you have 10 consultants, with any 3 of them fighting over $1 million in billable hours you have to create a firm project structure or it all turns to a vicious mush.

    My 2 cents on plogs, as I view this world from my peon cubicle.

  83. nother good one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I user MindManager mindjet because out process is intimately tied together with Microsoft (sigh).

    Having said that, this software lends itself to habitual plogging in the workspace, and the html output is some of the best auto-generated stuff I've seen.

  84. Wiki success. by mahlen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In contrast, our internal Wiki (a JSPWiki instance) grows by leaps and bounds, currently at the rate of 400 new pages a month, and typically 50+ edits a day. There was never any official pronouncement to make it so; I actually started it here just for myself.

    I think it took off because it was adopted by some high-profile and prolific people, and thus "It's in the Wiki" and "put it in the Wiki" became common phrases. I think that these combined to make it the "official" place to keep vital information. Quite a few developers have personal blogs and todo lists on the Wiki. The ease of corrections and low barrier to entry have really helped people get into it, though adoption is certainly far from universal. But I've seen meetings where the principal focus seems to be editing a Wiki page until it's correct, which is a great way to arrive at consensus and publish the consensus at the same time.

    mahlen

  85. Re:[OT] Re:Plogging for defense and security by Bingo+Foo · · Score: 1

    Wow you are so insightful and like, totally zen to voluntarily erase obvious distinctions in your head. Not to mention how brave you are to speak such thoughts when the worst consequence imaginable is that someone will disagree with you.

    --
    taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
  86. it's a good idea by alizard · · Score: 1
    It was a good idea back in the 1980s, too, when a team I'd put together was using a private conference on a BBS for project management issues as well. Though we didn't have call it a *log.

    The main difference having the Net makes is that we can log onto local ISPs instead of having to dial up.

  87. Bugzilla, poor man's plogger by Eil · · Score: 1


    When I read this article, I was thinking to myself, "Plogging? How quaint. We already do that where I work and we didn't even need a cool catchphrase and Slashdot submission."

    At the small company I work for part-time, our project and task-tracking is done via Bugzilla. Bugzilla, though designed and almost exclusively used for tracking software bugs, turns out to be one heck of an issue tracker. All you need to do is substitute the word "task" for "bug" and everything works grand. My boss enters a "bug" that says "Upgrade Apache on so-and-so FreeBSD jail" and I go to town, using the comment feature to "plog" my progress on the "bug" until it's "fixed".

    I've often thought it would be an entertaining bit of humor and ego-flaunting to release a fork of Bugzilla called Taskzilla that's really just a single patch replacing all instances of "bug" in the tarball with "task". The sad thing is that a lot of pointy-hair types would probably not notice this at first and go "wow, this free software works better than $commercial_solution!"

    We're also using an internal wiki, not as project management, but to document our experiences with systems and software that we work with on a daily basis. It's working okay right now since it only has a few dozen pages, but will quickly careen out of control if someone doesn't step in and do some extreme reorganization. I've half-volunteered to do it, much to my chagrin, but thankfully I'm being kept gainfully employed on other projects for now.

  88. Re:[OT] Re:Plogging for defense and security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Ok, since you're so enlightened, maybe you'll take another minute or two to help me out here...

    According to international law, the US had no right to invade Iraq. There had been no UN resolution authorizing this, and Iraq did not pose a threat to the US. Thus, the invasion and subsequent occupation are illegal. Now look at contractors of the military that take over so-called security tasks, either as police, military or prison guards. These contractors do not work for a legal authority. Thus, it is quite appropriate to call them mercenaries. Yet you prefer the term contractor.

    Then, look at persons from Iraq or other countries that fight the US occupation in Iraq. For members of the former Iraqi regime, one might even go so far as to argue that they indeed have the formal right to fight the US, since the US is certainly violating laws of the former Iraq. But that aside, most insurgents have different backgrounds and reasons to fight the US. They have no legal basis to do so, and, assuming that that get paid/rewarded/supported in any way, they also meet the definition of a mercenaries. Yet you prefer the term terrorist.

    And now tell me why you insist on this distinction...

  89. Strange, by E1v!$ · · Score: 1

    Just today I started thinking about using some kind of blog software for something like this at my company.

  90. Corporate friendly plogger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I use Team Elements simply because the higher-ups don't think it's a techie tool. I think this is a great concept. While it's not used for source code, it does allow us to share specifications, jot down ideas, and work though project issues. Everyone seems to be more helpful now that things are online and not stashed away in someone's desk.

  91. Re:piquepaille the spammer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    can anybody think of a good (derogatory) nickname for Piquepaille?

    How about a spammer because what he does qualifies as spam? (Took that little trick from someone else posting AC in the other thread today who had some valid points to make).

    Or if you really want to be derogatory, you could call him a ___ whore.

    Don't know what would go into the ____ but it's not karma he's after -- at least not the good kind. Maybe good substitutions are plagiarist (reference) or ... that's all I can think of at the moment.

    I find these thoughtful insights on Piquepaille just as interesting.

  92. I was there first. by carcass · · Score: 1

    Hey, I did this 2.5 years ago with a 'plog' that I wrote in PHP using PostgreSQL to keep track of water treatment pilot tests that my company does. Should have patented it. Since I'm not a programmer by trade, it's not very elegant, but it does the jobe very well, allowing multiple engineers, salespeople, etc. to keep track of projects and keep others updated on news, etc.

  93. All you need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is a wiki.

  94. Re:Not fair!! - CSM alert! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now *that* post of yours was really a troll...

  95. Damn, I thought I invented Plog. by LionKimbro · · Score: 1

    I made a thing called a "Personal Log" (plog) a while back.

    I was surprised to see my little program had reached Slashdot!

  96. Plogging Works !! by deeknow · · Score: 1

    I work in a web development role in an IT services division at a University in New Zealand and we've been plogging in this very way for around two and half years now. We began using a couple of copies of Radio Userland with one machine syndicating the output of another and pushing the merged content out to our team intranet site, but as more team members got the blog-bug we moved onto MovableType (MT) which we still run now.

    Blogging is now an essential part of our team and project management culture. We create seperate blogs for different projects, we setup, host and skin blogs for other teams and projects around campus, and still maintain a core blog for our own webteam which we use as a kind of change-control notification point and issues register.

    After a couple of years of use the corpus of blog posts and articles has become a knowledge-base for our teams and projects and a great resource to search against, kind of a common shared Inbox. No more searching through Outlook public-folders or file-systems for some obscure note you made a year ago.

    We've recently begun using the XML-RPC interface to MT to make automated remote posts into various blogs from cron jobs or watcher scripts running on web or application servers to let us know when certain events have happened (e.g. performance issues, resource use, change control events/migrations).

    Although we dont allow non-authenticated publishing into our blogs we do use category archiving in MT to render certain posts out to locations that are publically available or less restrictive so other interested parties (e.g. pointy-haired types) can get a handle on project progress etc.

    It used to take a little evangelising till people saw past a blog as being nothing more than a personal publishing tool, but the culture is now well established and ideas for other uses of the blog facilty pop up regularly.

    One feature that's hardly ever used tho (which kinda suprised me) is commenting. I'd say fewer that 5% of posts are ever commented on, the blog tends to be a snapshot in time on a specific subject and further discussion often goes on through email or in project meetings between interested parties following which someone will often make a followup (ie new) post. This sounds a little unstructured but it makes for easier reading than your classic heirachichal threaded discussion which tends to drift out of context.

    Despite the articles mention of the issue 'blogorrhea' we've found exactly the opposite in that the volume of pesky emails in the Inbox is now a fraction of what it used to be. We're now disciplined enough to browse blogs of relevance to us for posts by others regarding projects we may be involved with.

    I attended the O'Reilly OpenSource convention in 2002 and sat in on a birds-of-a-feather session on blogging while I was there (company included Rael Dornfest and Ben and Mena Trott). At one point during the discussion I asked who else was using their blog for this project management purpose and noone was, pretty much everyone was publishing a personal blog or building a blogging mechanism.

    --
    I don't suffer from stress, I'm just a carrier.