Nanotube Non-Volatile Memory Entering Production

Press release, sans PDF by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:26 · Score: 5, Informative

I have never understood why companies would release text information exclusively in PDF format. So here you go... and since I learned my lesson about Karma Whoring, I'll post AC. No troll text, I promise.

For Immediate Release Contact: Suzanne Gibbons-Neff
SGN Public Relations & Marketing
(203) 656-0833/ Suzanne@nantero.com
Nantero, Inc. Announces Carbon Nanotube Technology Development Project with LSI Logic
Woburn, MA - June 7, 2004. Nantero, Inc. announced today that it is teaming with LSI Logic Corporation (NYSE: LSI) to develop semiconductor process technology, expediting the effective utilization of carbon nanotubes in CMOS fabrication.
The joint development project is taking place at LSI Logics Gresham (Oregon) manufacturing campus, which is capable of process R&D down to the 65nm node.
The high electrical conductivity, thermal conductivity, and tensile strength of carbon nanotubes make them highly attractive for electronic device applications. These properties enable performance breakthroughs both through incorporation into existing semiconductor products and in the development of next generation products.
"LSI Logic has all of the necessary ingredients to accelerate the development of carbon nanotubes in CMOS: a strong focus on innovation, a highly qualified engineering team, and a world-class fab, said Greg Schmergel, Nanteros co-founder and CEO. "All of these factors and more makes LSI Logic an ideal partner for us in developing Nanteros carbon nanotube technology for high-volume manufacturing.
Nanteros proprietary processes for the use of carbon nanotubes are CMOS-compatible and are presently under development at LSI Logics Gresham semiconductor manufacturing campus. The LSI Logic facility was recognized by Semiconductor International magazine as Fab of the Year for 2002.
"LSI Logic has and continues to focus its process technology R&D efforts to solving technology challenges, such as the issues associated with low-k dielectrics, said Richard Schinella, LSI Logic vice president of Wafer Process R&D. "Teaming with Nantero, LSI Logic is applying its silicon integration skills to realizing the potential of carbon nanotubes in advanced CMOS manufacturing.
About Nantero
Nantero is a nanotechnology company using carbon nanotubes for the development of next-generation semiconductor devices. Nantero itself is developing NRAM -a high-density nonvolatile random access storage device. The potential applications for the nonvolatile storage device Nantero is developing are extensive and include the ability to enable instant-on computers and to replace the memory in devices such as cell phones, MP3 players, digital
cameras, and PDAs, as well as applications in the networking arena. NRAM can be manufactured for both standalone and embedded memory applications. Nantero is also working with licensees on the development of additional applications of Nanteros core nanotube-based technology.
About LSI Logic
LSI Logic Corporation (NYSE: LSI) is a leading designer and manufacturer of communications, consumer and storage semiconductors for applications that access, interconnect and store data, voice and video. In addition, the company supplies storage network solutions for the enterprise. LSI Logic is headquartered at 1621 Barber Lane, Milpitas, CA 95035. http://www.lsilogic.com

Re:Press release, sans PDF by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:34 · Score: 1, Insightful

why companies would release text information exclusively in PDF format
Perhaps they can't figure out any other way to digitally sign the document?
Re:Press release, sans PDF by QuantumRiff · 2004-06-08 06:46 · Score: 4, Interesting

Because they don't like handicapped people, especially the blind.. I recently attended a seminar on web access for the disabled, and it was an eye opener. There is no good tools (screenreaders) to read PDF's, and adobe has had their project on the back burner for the last few years.. I have now dropped most of the PDF use at our company.

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What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Re:Press release, sans PDF by Grishnakh · 2004-06-08 07:15 · Score: 2, Insightful

Can't you just convert it with pdf2ps, then ps2ascii, and read it from that?

PDF is an open standard with a published spec... it can't be that hard to make a screenreader for it.
Re:Press release, sans PDF by Anonymous+Cow+herd · 2004-06-08 07:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

Er... PNG, GIF and JPEG all have published specs... I have yet to see a screen reader that will look at one and say "It's a picture of a bird". :-P

All smartass-ness aside though, this is a big problem with PDF's, is that alot of them don't use text inside, but rather scanned images of text. This makes PDF accessibility a huge issue.

--
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
Re:Press release, sans PDF by Grishnakh · 2004-06-08 08:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

There's PDFs and there's PDFs. It's a convenient document format for many uses. It's great for distributing documents that have been generated on a word processor or typesetting program, and for documents like these, there should be no problem converting it to plain-text. PDFs have also been used a lot for scanned text. However, this is a totally different case than the former. There's an existing document on paper, and someone wants to digitize it so it can be distributed on the web. They could turn it into a big pile of GIFs, PNGs, or JPGs, or they could make it into one PDF. Do you have a way to screen-read scanned images? If not, then you have absolutely nothing to complain about, because in this case PDF is only serving as a convenient encapsulation method (it provides thumbnails, bookmarks, table of contents, etc.). So if those people didn't use PDF, they'd have to provide a zipfile of PNGs or something, which would totally suck.

Maybe you should try OCR software. What are you going to complain about next? That digital cameras and digital photos aren't accessible to blind people?
Re:Press release, sans PDF by Slime-dogg · 2004-06-08 08:15 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Reading your journal, I suspect that you really care too much about your karma. Just post what you think is pertinent, or if you're in the mood, do some flamebait / troll posts. Have fun with the place.

When you start to worry about your karma, you fall squarely into the "Karma Whore" category, just because you care. If you have something intelligent to say on a topic, say it. You'll get moderated accordingly, and people who aren't logged in will see it. If you want to exercise your freedom to speak, or want to get on someone's nerves, then do so. You'll be moderated accordingly, and the person to whom you replied will see what you wanted to say, and we won't necessarily have to. Don't try to be intelligent sounding without knowing much about a topic, because then you start sounding like Ken Brown.

Karma is not worth giving up your individuality for the appeasement of the /. horde.

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You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
Re:Press release, sans PDF by WuphonsReach · 2004-06-08 08:29 · Score: 1

All smartass-ness aside though, this is a big problem with PDF's, is that alot of them don't use text inside, but rather scanned images of text. This makes PDF accessibility a huge issue.

And then there are equipment manufacturers who turn on the obfuscation flag in their User Manual PDFs so that you can't copy-n-paste a relevant section out to send to someone. (Sony does this with their AIT tape drive manuals!)

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Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
Re:Press release, sans PDF by ortholattice · 2004-06-08 08:31 · Score: 1

There is no good tools (screenreaders) to read PDF's, and adobe has had their project on the back burner for the last few years.. I have now dropped most of the PDF use at our company.
I'm not sure what this has to do with nanotubes, but...
If the PDF is a scanned document, then it's really just an image file, like a GIF, and not an inherent problem with PDF. A Word document with a giant GIF of the text embedded would have the same problem, so why would the issue be any different?
If the PDF is generated from LaTeX with pdflatex (I'm not familiar with other PDF generation tools) then in Acrobat you can select all, copy, and paste into a text editor - just tried it. Math symbols don't come out, but it's readable for non-math stuff.
Re:Press release, sans PDF by Doubting+Thomas · 2004-06-08 09:31 · Score: 0, Troll

Don't be such an insufferable prick. What are you going to complain about next? That the stupid crippled people want access to the public pool? Boy, they have some nerve, don't they? Trying to be included in normal every day activities. They should go hide in a dank basement, where they belong!

What about a simple press release requires a typesetting program? Word processors? Are you talking about those Regan-era, pre-PC monstrosities? What makes you think that a technology company would have those, let alone even remember what they are?

And maybe YOU should try OCR software. Then you and my wife can bitch to each other about how much proof-reading you have to do on the finished product.

There's blind, and there's blind. Legally blind, for many people, means they can see well enough to know they've just stepped in front of a city bus, but they can't make out fine detail, like traffic signs, or the printed word.

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Just because it works, doesn't mean it isn't broken.
Re:Press release, sans PDF by Grishnakh · 2004-06-08 10:04 · Score: 1

Don't be such a fucking moron. It's the blind person that's complaining, and I don't see what the fuss is about. No one is keeping blind people out by putting out press releases in PDF. What would you rather them do? Put everything in plain-text, and eliminate all formatting and presentation everywhere? I already explained how to read PDF:
pdf2ps -> ps2ascii. If you can't figure that out, then too bad! The press release was NOT a scanned-in page, so this will work. For scanned stuff, you have NO CHOICE but to use OCR It's not like people actually want to scan stuff in. Scanned-in text always looks like crap. But when the original document (which may be decades old) is already on paper, there's NO OTHER WAY TO DO IT.

But explain to me, moron, why this is important anyway when the press release is NOT SCANNED IN???

Fucking dumbass.
Re:Press release, sans PDF by DroppedPacket · 2004-06-08 11:12 · Score: 1

Wow. We are so lucky to have an expert in layout and ligatures tell us about the internals of PDF and how well they can be converted to text that can be read or spoken by automated softare.
I would like to think Grishnakh for his concise and erudite help in solving this problem for everybody. He truly is a master debator.

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I am not a resource! I am a free man!
Re:Press release, sans PDF by QuantumRiff · 2004-06-08 11:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm not blind, by my co-workers little boy is. I've spent some time with him, trying to get a 10 year old blind boy on the internet. That is difficult enough.. The real bitch is that many government offices, local, state, and fed, only produce PDF's for things. That is their standard. There are ways to convert PDF's, mostly involving linux, an OS that I love, but Linux is definately not set up for the blind. Now, try to imagine researching laws on discrimination of the handicapped, when all the government docs are published in PDF, which is not handicapped accessible.
My main point I'm trying to make is that we have other tools to do it, why choose PDF? Take a few minutes, and do some reading on accessability standards for the web, and then look at some sites that follow them. For example, OSU I'm not a student there, but I do do some research on their site occasionally. They have been pushing accessability on everything pretty hard at that college. That web page is so much easier for everyone to navigate now, becuase it isn't designed with just marketing in mind, but with everyone. It loads faster, less crap, more consistant, and every image has an ALT tag description. by making it accessable, it works easier for everyone. And the hard part for them was just changing the mindsets of people to consider these things.
PDF files are great in some applications, such as the manual for my motorcycle. But a press release as a PDF? Why not just post a 5MB flash as your homepage, so that it looks the way you want it to? You could, but its waaaay overkill..

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What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Re:Press release, sans PDF by Doubting+Thomas · 2004-06-08 12:06 · Score: 2

Have you ever used google to research anything technical? Did you ever notice how often the google "show as text" function totally butchers the file?

Point is, not everything that ends life as non-text in a PDF or PS file started life as a picture. Your other respondent seems to have some in-depth knowledge of what precisely this is, all I know is what I see, and what I hear from the accessibility folks I've known or chatted with over the years. As someone else said, PDF files may as well be a Flash animation for all the attention some people pay to making their information generally available. Telling them to suck it up and get some OCR software is beyond rude, but then I'm starting to gather that about you.

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Just because it works, doesn't mean it isn't broken.
Re:Press release, sans PDF by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2004-06-08 12:13 · Score: 1

> do some flamebait / troll posts.

Like I do, you stinking sacks of shit.

Hell, I even talk disparagingly of Linux compared to Windows.

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(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Re:Press release, sans PDF by Grishnakh · 2004-06-08 12:37 · Score: 1

My main point is that it shouldn't take too much work to create a software tool that converts PDFs to ASCII text, as long as the input PDF isn't just images or scans. This would be a good project for an interested open-source developer, since so many things are in PDF form.

Now why they're using PDF for something as simple as a press release, rather than standard HTML, I have no idea. There isn't a good reason for it. PDF has its uses, like for data sheets and manuals, but for many things it's overkill. (However, I would like to point out that for scanned-in manuals and the like, DjVu is far better, producing files a small fraction of the size of PDFs, and rendering much faster too.)
Re:Press release, sans PDF by glitch23 · 2004-06-08 12:41 · Score: 1

PNG, GIF and JPEG all have published specs.

GIFs now have licenses you need to purchase to use them as well.

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this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
Re:Press release, sans PDF by bitN · 2004-06-08 15:51 · Score: 1

One of the reasons I've been told folks use PDFs is to maintain control of the content. Official releases can be versioned, digitally signed, and access protected via PDF. So if the content is found on the web and isn't in PDF or it is a PDF without the appropriate watermark or digsig a company can more easily deny the authenticity of a fraudulent document. Not that there aren't loopholes, but it keeps the honestly inclined a bit more honest.

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it's 1 or the other

NYT article text by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:26 · Score: 5, Informative

Nantero, a start-up developing memory chips using nanotechnology, and LSI Logic, a leading maker of specialty microchips, are expected to announce today that they have transferred Nantero's technology to a standard semiconductor production line.

Nantero is creating NRAM, a high-density nonvolatile random access memory chip, which it hopes will replace existing forms of memory. Its technology, using cylindrical molecules of carbon known as nanotubes, will be used on a production line in LSI's semiconductor factory in Gresham, Ore.

Carbon nanotubes are among the new forms of carbon, known as fullerenes, whose discovery helped ignite interest in manipulation of materials at the molecular level, the field known as nanotechnology. Fullerenes consist of carbon atoms arranged in patterns resembling the nodes of the geodesic domes designed by Buckminster Fuller. Nanotubes, which researchers first created in 1991, consist of single- or multiwalled cylinders that can be less than 10 nanometers wide. A nanometer is one-billionth of a meter.

The transition from laboratory to production line took more than nine months, the companies said, adding that considerable work remains to improve the chips.

"But it's following the same type of road map as any other semiconductor product," said Norman L. Armour, vice president and general manager of the LSI factory in Gresham. Mr. Armour said that processors embedded with carbon nanotube memories in place of static random access memory, or SRAM, could be supplied commercially from the factory's pilot line next year if no problems developed.

If so, analysts said, such devices could emerge as one of the first products to exploit something other than the extraordinary strength of carbon nanotubes.

The nanotubes are up to 100 times as strong as steel and one-sixth its weight, qualities that have quickly led to their use in products like tennis rackets and automotive plastics, where they are mixed with other materials to improve their performance.

Researchers have also shown that the nanotubes have extraordinary electrical and magnetic characteristics. Recent reports, for example, have highlighted their ability to be quickly altered from metal-like conductors into semiconductors and back by applying magnetic fields.

Such novel qualities have helped make them a powerful symbol of nanotechnology's potential, but except as strengtheners nanotubes have proved difficult to bring to market. The challenges have included preventing clumping and the tendency of the simplest manufacturing approaches to produce mixes of single-walled and multiwalled tubes with varying characteristics.

Nantero's design applies charges to groups of single-walled nanotubes suspended over an electrode. Applying opposite charges to the tubes and the electrode causes the tubes to bend down, creating a junction that represents a 1. Applying like charges forces them apart into the 0 state. As with all digital memory, NRAM stores data as a pattern of 1's and 0's.

Carbon nanotube memories could sharply improve the performance of cellphones, laptop computers and other electronic devices. Like today's flash and SRAM memories, carbon nanotube designs can maintain data when power is turned off, an advantage over dynamic random access memory, or DRAM, memory chips, which must constantly be refreshed. But it can operate considerably faster and on less power than flash memory, and is much cheaper and more compact than SRAM.

Analysts caution that Nantero's carbon nanotubes face plenty of competition. Memories that hold their charge are crucial to improving the performance and design flexibility of a wide range of electronic products, and thus have become the most profitable and fastest-growing segment of the $35 billion memory market, according to Radu Andrei, a Web-Feet Research analyst based in Dallas. That is attracting heavy investment in technologies that could replace flash and SRAM.

"I count around 30 technology variations trying to get a piece of that pie," Mr. Andrei said. Among them are I.B.M., Intel, Motorola and numerous start-ups. Flash memory is now so inexpensive, he added, that innovators will have a hard time displacing it from all but the most demanding applications even if they surpass it technically.

Only for so long by Luguber123 · 2004-06-08 05:27 · Score: 5, Funny

"I'm looking forward to only needing one memory card to store all the 5Mbit pictures that I'll take for the rest of my life"

With that said, I'm sure they are taken out of production again :)

Re:Only for so long by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 06:21 · Score: 0

Ah! Like The Man In The White Suit?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044876/
Re:Only for so long by tracon5 · 2004-06-08 08:32 · Score: 1

Its great the memory is starting to keep up with us but the batteries still suck. the money spent on batteries for me anyway beats out what i have spent on memory cards.

--
Non-smokers die every day --Bill Hicks
Re:Only for so long by drinkypoo · 2004-06-08 10:56 · Score: 1

Many of us have discovered that it is possible to purchase rechargable batteries. While they typically provide less voltage than their disposable cousins, they actually store far more power and so usually provide just as much runtime as alkalines, plus you can recharge them from 2,000 to 10,000 times depending on the battery technology and your use and charging habits.
Batteries do suck, but they're really not all that expensive. The average digital camera either uses a Li-Ion battery or runs on 2-4 AA-size batteries. Wal-mart frequently sells a pack of four 2000mAh AA NiMH batteries with a charger for $10.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Only for so long by nomel · 2004-06-08 11:48 · Score: 1

I don't know about him...but I sure wouldn't wanna take 625kilobyte pictures for the rest of my life. Seems like they'd have to be pretty low res to me. Hell, my jpeg compressed pictures from my 5mp camera are over 20 megabits (little over 2.5megabytes each).

Great by EduardoFonseca · 2004-06-08 05:27 · Score: 3, Interesting

Great stuff. But, is it reliable? This technology is becoming mainstream too quickly.

Does anyone have more data on this?

Re:Great by errxn · 2004-06-08 05:30 · Score: 5, Funny

Well, if it's not, you can always say that your memory "went down the nanotubes."

--
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:38 · Score: 4, Funny

that's a pipe dream
Re:Great by wankledot · 2004-06-08 05:46 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Har har har. Am I the only person that thinks we should have a (Score:-1 Pun) option? :)

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My sig is blank, I typed this by hand.
Re:Great by Eviscero · 2004-06-08 05:50 · Score: 3, Interesting

And what kind of storage vs space as well as bandwidth can we expect out of memory developed with this techology?

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It's not what you know; It's what you can find out.
Re:Great by Charles+Dart · 2004-06-08 05:54 · Score: 1

I/O errors will be known as having your tubes tied. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Re:Great by Rei · 2004-06-08 06:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'm thrilled that it's becoming mainstream so quickly. Because even if the company utterly fails to deliver a product that costs a reasonable amount, the simple fact of orders/production of bulk nanotubes will help drive CNT prices down and encourage a lot more CNT research, especially on the critical issues of size, purity, and consistancy of nanotube forms.

Space elevators, ultracheap rockets, massive bridges, giant skyscrapers.... here we come! (ok, perhaps not that fast... but it's a good start. ;) ).

--
"99 dead duelists of Dios on the wall. 99 dead duelists of Dios! Take one's ring, pass it around..."
Re:Great by t_allardyce · 2004-06-08 06:10 · Score: 1

How can anything not be more reliable than floppies and consumer-grade bulk CD-Rs? But yeah the bigger the memory the more un-backed up only-copy stuff people will try and fit on it and the more screwed they'll be when it breaks. But on the other hand, lets get it through before the bloody RIAA/MPAA etc get their mits on it and decide it can only be released in DRM form.

Proper bo!

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This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 06:12 · Score: 0

Someone once scored me "+1 Groan" ...
Re:Great by op00to · 2004-06-08 06:20 · Score: 1

I love how you say "consumer grade" as if all CDR's aren't built in the same facilities...
Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 06:47 · Score: 0

Ah grasshoper, the same machines are used, but they are not fed the same raw materials with the same specs...
Re:Great by SpaceLifeForm · 2004-06-08 07:23 · Score: 1

Will getting a tube job mean that you had a bit flip?

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You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
Re:Great by shuz · 2004-06-08 08:45 · Score: 1

First visit this site http://www.smalltimes.com/document_display.cfm?doc ument_id=6311
The technology for "3rd" generation nanotech, which is to include 3d chips such as memory, is not supposed to really evolve until around 2010. Projections for nanotech seem to a bit lacking.
It is projected that by 2020 we will be able to mimic molecules with nanotech thus possibley mimicing life artificially(which is kinda scary). From reading quite a few articles on the subject that is what I have been able to find.

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There is or can be built a machine that can simulate any physical object. -Church-Turing principle
Re:Great by Atryn · 2004-06-08 08:47 · Score: 1

even if the company utterly fails to deliver a product that costs a reasonable amount
No such thing.... There's always military uses where cost is not a factor!

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Come play Moral Decay!
Re:Great by Doubting+Thomas · 2004-06-08 09:43 · Score: 1

I wonder... Could you get these chips rated for orbital applications? Would nanotube memory be more, or less susceptible to damage by high-energy particles?

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Just because it works, doesn't mean it isn't broken.
Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 10:46 · Score: 0

or, you can call it simply "volatile" and not "non-volatile"
Re:Great by drinkypoo · 2004-06-08 11:05 · Score: 1

We already do. It's called "overrated".

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Great by t_allardyce · 2004-06-08 11:11 · Score: 1

no some are decent, they work regularly for several years, some brands fail much more than others, some only like slow speeds (i've had one shatter in my drive) most (according to tests) will fade after afew years. As for floppies.. i don't think its really viable to take a single file on a single floppy, i always use atleast 2 and each has the same file backed up 5 times. They are just that crap.

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This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Re:Great by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2004-06-08 12:19 · Score: 1

McDonald's is "consumer grade" food.

If you want to see "consumer grade" bacon, just look at how fatty all bacon in supermarkets are, then look at how quality it is when served in restaraunts.

"Consumer grade" = there but for the laws goes dog food.

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(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Re:Great by op00to · 2004-06-10 04:27 · Score: 1

That's great. Really, great. You missed the entire point of my post, however. It is silly to put any "grade" on a box of CDRs since they're all manufactured using the same processes by OEM's who make CDR's for just about everyone. One day a company might be making cheap-ass-cdr's, the next day it might be making some fancy expensive ones. They're the same crap, with the brand names usually spending an extra penny or two on some paint on the top of the CD.

Rushed by paganizer · 2004-06-08 05:27 · Score: 0, Redundant

Seems like they might be rushing this a little too much; hopefully, this will get a gradual adoption that will allow some of the first-gen bugs to be worked out before serious implementation.
(where can I pre-order?)

--
Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.

Re:Rushed by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:37 · Score: 0

Why was this moderated up? It has no content of any value!
Re:Rushed by Deflagro · 2004-06-08 05:40 · Score: 0, Troll

Yea I agree. I remember when they were first messing with carbon nanotubes, tried to take a picture and the whole thing violently combusted. Who would have thought??!

That's exactly the problem, who knows what these things can do. They need to make sure it's completely tested before selling it.

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Der Tod ist der einzige Weg hier raus!
Re:Rushed by paganizer · 2004-06-08 08:47 · Score: 0, Redundant

Not redundant.
I thought for sure I had first post.

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Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
Re:Rushed by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 12:22 · Score: 0

There, it's moderated down now. You made him cry. Happy?

Quickly? by afidel · 2004-06-08 05:28 · Score: 5, Interesting

I was doing expirements of buckminsterfullerenes back in 1996-97, it shouldn't be suprising that a superior material made it to market in 8-10 years after the start of expiremental evaluation. I doubt it took that long to develop nylon, rayon, or any of the other wonder fibers into products for sale.

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There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.

Re:Quickly? by laigle · 2004-06-08 05:32 · Score: 4, Insightful

True, but there is a great deal of difference between developing the material and developing the application. Just making the nanotubes doens't allow you to make a memory card out of them. I would be rather interested in how much research has been put into memory-holding, write/read times, memory density, interference and the like before deciding to switch over to NRAM.
Re:Quickly? by WormholeFiend · 2004-06-08 05:34 · Score: 2, Funny

I was doing expirements of buckminsterfullerenes back in 1996-97

really?! well way back in the stone age, I was experimenting with rocks! and we were glad to have them too!
Re:Quickly? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:39 · Score: 0

I doubt it. I think you're lying.
Re:Quickly? by solodex2151 · 2004-06-08 05:41 · Score: 1

I think they might be heading in a little too quickly. Then again, it makes sense with MRAM on the horizon. Fullerenes (i.e. nanotubes and bucky balls) have been around for a while now. It doesn't surprise me that they are used in memory considering their application in Organic solar cells and some OLED applications.
Re:Quickly? by No+Such+Agency · 2004-06-08 05:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

I think nylon was developed during WWII, wasn't it? That must have been a big boost to rapid innovation cycles. All we need is another big war, to be fought entirely with computers... hmm...

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Freedom: "I won't!"
Re:Quickly? by WormholeFiend · 2004-06-08 05:55 · Score: 1

All we need is another big war, to be fought entirely with computers

The war on spam isnt big enough for you?
Re:Quickly? by king-manic · 2004-06-08 06:02 · Score: 4, Funny

Lets invade Canada. We can use the French Canadians for medical experiments, and We'll appropriate enough maple syrup to pay for the invasion. They have WMD (celine dion) and are more then willing to use it.

--
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Re:Quickly? by the+melon · 2004-06-08 06:09 · Score: 1

Willing to use it? They are using it on a daily basis and some are paying $ for the torture. Damn Caesers Palace for making her their main show.
Re:Quickly? by linzeal · 2004-06-08 06:10 · Score: 1

Wasn't The Dion Bomb contained in Las Vegas? Can't we do like they did in Wasteland and just nuke our own country to save humanity? We can build a New Las Vegas near Virgin, Utah.

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An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Re:Quickly? by Short+Circuit · 2004-06-08 06:15 · Score: 1

Yeah, and I bet you rolled them uphill both ways, too.

Wait a second...rolled?

Damn...where's that patent application form?!

--
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Re:Quickly? by Minwee · 2004-06-08 06:36 · Score: 3, Funny

Who knows? May be you might even win this time.
Re:Quickly? by king-manic · 2004-06-08 06:44 · Score: 0, Offtopic

(White House: 23:00. Presidential press conference)
President: Ladies and Gentlemen. I have sad news to report. The city of Las Vegas had been hit with a WMD. The damage is incredible. 34,000 US citizens are now speaking with a Canadian accent and wearing flannel. 40 city blocks have suddenly been cleared of thier trash and 27 immigrant 7 eleven owners have worked a shift without being shot. The weapon was a class 4 "Dion Bomb" and hit one of th major casinos in Vega. We have rough estimates of the ground zero damage area but will require a few weeks to fully tally the collateral damage. We will not lets this go unpunished. We will find those responsible and put in prisons where they will make naked pyrimids while we take pictures. We will find the animals who did this and spend 150 billion dollars invading an unrelated country. I promise, so long as i'm president and you keep watchign fox news and buying shit I will punish those who aren't responsible for this.

--
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Re:Quickly? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 06:51 · Score: 0

Colin Powel's proof for the UN security council.
Re:Quickly? by ArsSineArtificio · 2004-06-08 06:56 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Lets invade Canada.

The Bush Doctrine applies only to nations which are A) unpleasant and B) dangerous. Canada fails the second condition.

--
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
Re:Quickly? by yotto · 2004-06-08 07:13 · Score: 1

Yes, it was contained in Vegas.

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, after all.

--
Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
Re:Quickly? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 07:23 · Score: 0

I wonder if they can make stockings out of nanotubes...
Re:Quickly? by king-manic · 2004-06-08 07:25 · Score: 1

The Bush Doctrine applies only to nations which are A) unpleasant and B) dangerous. Canada fails the second condition.

We massacred your troops and burned down your white house. We beat germans like they were red headed step children twice and kept our incredibly vast country with 1/10 as many people as the US. So We're dangerous.

--
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Re:Quickly? by Surt · 2004-06-08 07:36 · Score: 1

But iraq failed B too, so it should be ok to invade canada.

--
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Re:Quickly? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 07:59 · Score: 0

You forgot option C. Has oil.
Re:Quickly? by Slime-dogg · 2004-06-08 08:21 · Score: 1

Making the bucky balls into memory is fairly simple. All they need to do is string a few of them on a tube, line the tubes up in a nano-frame, and use nano-fingers to move them back and forth. Witness, the first IP on the nano-abacus.

--
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
Re:Quickly? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 08:21 · Score: 0

Invade Canada? I don't think so. Back off, or we drop the big one...Anne Murray.
Re:Quickly? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 10:49 · Score: 0

ok- You win. We'll be right up there, eh?
Re:Quickly? by drinkypoo · 2004-06-08 10:59 · Score: 1

We can build a New Las Vegas near Virgin, Utah.

Near? Try in.

Might have to change the place's name, though...

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Quickly? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2004-06-08 12:24 · Score: 1

> I think nylon was developed during WWII, wasn't
> it? That must have been a big boost to rapid
> innovation cycles.

Yes, the rate of matings did increase because of it.

--
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Re:Quickly? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 12:58 · Score: 0

No but we have scores of oil and diamonds.

Errr, I mean.... Look it's Osama! Get him!
Re:Quickly? by ErikZ · 2004-06-08 13:03 · Score: 1

Were dangerous.

Your military is as small as you can make it, and between gun registration and the way you treat the members of your Armed Forces...

I can't imagine you guys in any war without the US to pave the way for you.

--
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Re:Quickly? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 14:12 · Score: 0

But how can you do that without a tachyon beam or main deflector dish?
Re:Quickly? by Mycroft_VIII · 2004-06-08 21:06 · Score: 1

Well if those aren't working you could probably modify a lateral gravimetric scanner, though for that kind of resolution you'd probably need to feed the i/o stream data through the transporter subsystem so you can use Heisenberg compensators to amplie signal above the ambient noise. Of course this mean you best hope the away team isn't suddenly attacked by natives as you won't be able to beam them up while the transporters are off line.
Or something like that :)

Mycroft

--
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
Re:Quickly? by some+guy+I+know · 2004-06-08 22:55 · Score: 1

I doubt it took that long to develop nylon, rayon, or any of the other wonder fibers into products for sale.
I don't use nylon RAM any more.
I kept getting runs in it.

--
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
Re:Quickly? by martingunnarsson · 2004-06-08 23:10 · Score: 1

You had rocks?! We lived in a lake, and...

OK, sorry.

--
Martin
Re:Quickly? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-09 03:07 · Score: 0

Cool! When will Dubya be bombing the USA, then?
Re:Quickly? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-10 04:53 · Score: 0

Ofcourse we would win, it's Canada.... The real problem is that we would then have to occupy it for a time. I wouldn't wish that on anyone (with the exception of the Canadians themselves)

Another new memory by swordboy · 2004-06-08 05:28 · Score: 5, Interesting

STM recently announced that they are entering the production phase for PRAM, or phase-change memory. This is important because PRAM is nonvolatile and has the potential to be written and read much faster than flash. There will come a day when DRAM will go away and we'll be left with extremely fast and simple NVRAM for main memory and possibly even archival storage. It'd be really great if there was only ONE memory in a system. At this point, most high-performance CPUs are mostly cache memory anyway.

--

Life is the leading cause of death in America.

Re:Another new memory by ron_ivi · 2004-06-08 05:38 · Score: 4, Funny

"There will come a day when DRAM will go away and we'll be left with extremely fast and simple NVRAM for main memory and possibly even archival storage."
Then not even rebooting will "fix" a MS-Windows computer, and everyone'll go Linux. :)
Re:Another new memory by Paulrothrock · 2004-06-08 05:39 · Score: 3, Funny

Yes, but will you have to zap your PRAM?
Ugh...

--
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
Re:Another new memory by Mz6 · 2004-06-08 05:46 · Score: 3, Insightful

"There will come a day when DRAM will go away and we'll be left with extremely fast and simple NVRAM for main memory and possibly even archival storage"
This is obviously not the right way if you are worried about passwords being found years later on hard disks, as was mentioned in previous slashdot article.

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Hmmm.
Re:Another new memory by Glock27 · 2004-06-08 05:53 · Score: 1

This is obviously not the right way if you are worried about passwords being found years later on hard disks, as was mentioned in previous slashdot article.
Zeroing and/or encrypting the password buffer is the right solution there, as the article pointed out.

--
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
Re:Another new memory by mikael · 2004-06-08 06:01 · Score: 1

Undoubtably in the future, high-performance PC's will have turbo-charged double PRAMS's.

--
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Re:Another new memory by Eviscero · 2004-06-08 06:02 · Score: 1

Ah PRAM. Sweet PRAM.

I'll have 3 large PRAMs with a side of 1 TB bandwidth...Thank you...Come again.

--

It's not what you know; It's what you can find out.
Re:Another new memory by APDent · 2004-06-08 06:09 · Score: 1

turbo-charged double PRAMS's
<humor style="british">
Yes. But only for turbo-charged babies; preferably twins.
</humor>
Re:Another new memory by EssTiDee · 2004-06-08 06:42 · Score: 1

Cost-benefit analysis of the manufacturing costs and subsequent price of ample storage size in high speed memory formats is the only reason current hardware architecture uses different types of memory at the different tiers... Cache memory rules -- believe me, I'd love a 400Gb "hard drive" of on-chip cache memory... A little expensive that way, though. My 2 cents; while the faster the better, there's still always a market for the cheap solution - someone will still want the slow but sturdy memory, and tons and tons of it as well.
Re:Another new memory by Tiroth · 2004-06-08 06:43 · Score: 1

Maybe, but probably not in interchangeable packages. The bus-length dependent transmission times mean that the cache needs to be on the processor, the main memory nearby and hopefully user upgradable, the graphics memory on the graphics coprocessor, which as a unit should be upgradable due to shorter dev cycles, etc etc.

There could be some benefit in terms of R&D though if the basic memory design were more interchangeable (i.e. as opposed to SRAM versus DRAM versus Flash versus...)
Re:Another new memory by frodo+from+middle+ea · 2004-06-08 06:49 · Score: 1

I don't get it ?
</cluelessness>

--
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
Re:Another new memory by APDent · 2004-06-08 07:09 · Score: 2, Informative

There's maybe nothing worse than a bad pun except explaining a bad pun. In for a penny, in for a pound:

In Britain, "pram" is another word for stroller, pushchair, baby carriage, etc. It's short for "perambulator".

A "double-pram" is one of those side-by-side (or front-back) strollers suitable for pushing two children. In this case it's "turbo-charged" (presumably for today's go-faster children).
Re:Another new memory by jhoger · 2004-06-08 07:29 · Score: 1

Yeah.

It brings about the possibility that modern laptops might finally be able to become truly portable and therefore compete with the 8-bit laptops (model 100/102/200, z88, amstrad nc100/200, NEC 8500, Starlet, etc.) from a couple decades ago... instant on, 20 hours battery life, run on alkalines, more rugged, etc.
Re:Another new memory by gamma+male · 2004-06-08 08:08 · Score: 1

One could set aside a portion of the memory and tell the OS to keep it read only so one could force a reset. And while you can argue that one could get around that, one can also change files on the hard drive.
Re:Another new memory by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 08:25 · Score: 0

Or maybe BSD...
Re:Another new memory by Slime-dogg · 2004-06-08 08:25 · Score: 1

There's maybe nothing worse than a bad pun except explaining a bad pun.

Depends on your pramaters.

There is at least one thing that is worse: the one who wrote the pun is the one who has to explain the pun.

--
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
Re:Another new memory by SpaceLifeForm · 2004-06-08 08:39 · Score: 1

Go away? Only *ONE* memory? I think not.
While at times, having only one memory seems wonderful from a performance or code simplicity standpoint, there are many fault-tolerant and/or recovery techniques that can be utilized by having at least two different memory technologies in a 'system'.
In other words, don't put all your eggs in one basket.

--
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
Re:Another new memory by shfted! · 2004-06-08 10:57 · Score: 2, Insightful

Blanking data on an extremely fast medium is, well, extremely fast. It would be quite feasible to zero out all discarded information where it is too demandind on slow hard disks today.

--
He who laughs last is stuck in a time dilation bubble.
Re:Another new memory by mikael · 2004-06-08 11:13 · Score: 1

double pram

--
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Re:Another new memory by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 11:44 · Score: 0

Oooh. good idea. I could imagine the design meeting where they make this decision
Developer 1: Ooh. to make the reboot trick still work, lets put all our memory leaks in an area we clear when someone hits reset.
Developer 2.: Great Idea! I'll put all our other (non-memory) resource leaks
Developer 3.: Cool. I'll put all our buggy locking structures there so the locks are freed up on reset.
Manager: Dudes, if you know where these all are, why don't you just fix them?
Developer 1,2,3: that'd be violating Linux's intellectual property!.
If they knew what bugs to put in the non-volitale memory, they could have just fixed the bugs in the first place.
Re:Another new memory by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 12:43 · Score: 0

For Eviscero
Re:Another new memory by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-09 02:09 · Score: 0

don't put all your eggs in one basket.

That's why I live on two planets simultaneously.

I wouldn't mind this in my PDA by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2004-06-08 05:28 · Score: 3, Interesting

Sounds like it would be lower power than flash memory- and if they can get the manufacturing process cheaper, this could mean finally having say a 40 GB memory card on my PDA- copy my entire desktop to the PDA for mobile applications.

--
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.

Toxicology by morcheeba · 2004-06-08 05:28 · Score: 5, Informative

I'm looking forward to only needing one memory card to store all the 5Mbit pictures that I'll take for the rest of my life.

It seems that a 1GB nano-tube based memory card should last the rest of your life. Of course, a silicon-based memory card to last the rest of your life would have to be much larger.

--
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets

Re:Toxicology by Cat_Byte · 2004-06-08 05:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

It seems that a 1GB nano-tube based memory card should last the rest of your life
And 640K of memory should be enough for anybody ;)

--
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.
Re:Toxicology by arjay-tea · 2004-06-08 05:41 · Score: 1

"It seems that a 1GB nano-tube based memory card should last the rest of your life."

Why would anyone ever need that much memory!
Re:Toxicology by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:57 · Score: 2, Funny

You (or the people who modded you Informative) may want to actually read what he linked -- the implication is that your life may be cut down to where Moore's Law is no longer relevant.
Re:Toxicology by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 06:02 · Score: 0

I was being a smartass...grin....I think its funny it got modded informative ;)
Re:Toxicology by iabervon · 2004-06-08 06:12 · Score: 3, Funny

Warning: do not inhale memory card.

Life's worth of pictures by sjonke · 2004-06-08 05:28 · Score: 3, Insightful

"I'm looking forward to only needing one memory card to store all the 5Mbit pictures that I'll take for the rest of my life."

And to losing them all in one fell swoop?

--
--- What?

Re:Life's worth of pictures by Mz6 · 2004-06-08 05:32 · Score: 1

Yeah.. I was thinking that exact same thing. Why would you store everything all in one place like that?

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Hmmm.
Re:Life's worth of pictures by xeer0 · 2004-06-08 06:33 · Score: 1

"I'm looking forward to only needing one memory card to store all the 5Mbit pictures that I'll take for the rest of my life."

"And to losing them all in one fell swoop?"

If it's that much cheaper/efficient/convenient to store it will be that much cheaper/efficient/convenient to backup.

--
"Hey... don't be mean." --Buckaroo Banzai
Re:Life's worth of pictures by Analogy+Man · 2004-06-08 07:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

This would not necessarily preclude a backup/disaster recovery strategy.
Is having data spread across 1,000,000 floppy disks...or 1,000 CD's more secure from loss or corruption?
I should think not.
If a backup can be generated in a short period of time, have persistance (not degrade over time tape media) and be re-writable ... a compact media like this would be fantastic.

--
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Re:Life's worth of pictures by HybridJeff · 2004-06-08 08:08 · Score: 1

Store it all in one place so you can carry it around evreywhere with you , and then back it up evrey once in a while in more secure place. Doesnt that solve your problem? I dont think anyone is suggesting no backups, just that if you can store evreything in one location, its much more portable and convenient.
Re:Life's worth of pictures by Kent+Recal · 2004-06-08 08:42 · Score: 1

Buy two, make backups, problem solved.
Re:Life's worth of pictures by glenebob · 2004-06-08 08:45 · Score: 1

Bingo! I want all my stuff in a little box in my pocket. It can get backed up every night while I sleep, and all day at work, for starters. In fact, I'll take two little boxes wherever I go and use them as mirrors, and back THAT up whenever I feel like it.

More details please by Mr.+Sketch · 2004-06-08 05:29 · Score: 3, Interesting

The articles seemed weak on details, does anyone know what sizes of memory these will be available in? Are we talking megs of memory (like current flash cards), gigs of memory (to replace hard drives), or teras of memory (for the future)?

--
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.

Re:More details please by hovermike · 2004-06-08 06:25 · Score: 1

Perhaps a WAG: If 2.37 x 10^8 bits can be placed on 1 mm^2 ( 1x10^6 nm/mm * 1x10^6 nm/mm / 65 ^2 nm^2), then 30 MB / mm^2, 19.3 GB / inch ^2. Of course this would be the theoretical limit due to the need for control circuits, field considerations, etc. Is this is greater than the current data density for hard drives?
Re:More details please by burrows · 2004-06-08 06:54 · Score: 3, Informative

This article says 10^12 bits per cm^2. That would bring us to something like 116 GB per cm^2, unless my math is wrong, which it probably is, because that was off the top of my head. Anyway, I think it's more dense than what you estimated. As for hard drives, I don't know, but I have a drive with an areal density in the 34 GB / inch^2 realm, so if they're anywhere near that, this is a huge improvement.

--
Paper Pusher
Re:More details please by glenebob · 2004-06-08 08:53 · Score: 1

Hard drives have good density in two dimensions, but horrible in three dimensions because of the vast wasted space between platters (for the heads), and the platters themselves waste vast amounts of space in thickness (to provide rigidity I assume). Then there's all the space wasted by the head control mechanism. And all the space wasted by putting a round disk in a rectangle box... And for bearings... And a motor... None of those wastes would be present with solid state memory.
Re:More details please by witchman · 2004-06-08 10:42 · Score: 1

I read something like 1 terabit per square cm.
Re:More details please by way2trivial · 2004-06-08 12:48 · Score: 1

um, in^2=6.45 cm^2 at 116 per cm^2 would equal 748 GB per inch^2
using your figures. so that's 22 times capacity over the hard drive.

--
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Re:More details please by jelle · 2004-06-08 14:16 · Score: 1

No bearings and motor, no head control/pickup arm, and no magnetic media? Hmm. Now I'm getting interested in the expected actual mtbf of such memory! (I say actual, because the numbers harddisk manufacturers publish there days are more dream numbers than actual _means_).

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--- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.

Toxicity? by Midnight+Thunder · 2004-06-08 05:29 · Score: 4, Interesting

Last I heard certain nanotubes were toxic to the environment. Does anyone know whether these suffer from the same issue?

--
Jumpstart the tartan drive.

Re:Toxicity? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2004-06-08 05:35 · Score: 1

Depends- are you planning on shredding your memory cards anytime soon?

--
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Re:Toxicity? by cbreaker · 2004-06-08 05:44 · Score: 1

So is motor oil and about a thousand other things you keep around the house every day.

--
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Re:Toxicity? by kilocomp · 2004-06-08 05:57 · Score: 2, Funny

The radiation from the wireless card or CRT you have should neturalize it.
Re:Toxicity? by th3axe · 2004-06-08 06:00 · Score: 5, Insightful

From what I remember, the concern about nanotubes (as well as other nano-materials) is that we don't have a great deal of experience with them yet. Motor oil has been around for quite some time and isn't a truly "new" material, while nanotubes are. The unique properties of the material brings with it both benefits and possible problems. Given our history with cool, new stuff, it would be wise to see what possible issues might arise.

I'm no Luddite, but I don't think it's a bad idea to work through the lifecycle of this type of material. If it decays, how does it decay? What happens to it or its components when it does decay? Can we just just toss it into landfills or does it count as hazardous waste? Lots of questions, maybe they've been answered, but I don't recall there being a great deal of study on it.

That said though, it's a cool thing that we're gonna see this stuff in real life.

--
"It's real and we can touch it, so least we know where we stand." - Jack Burton
Re:Toxicity? by Revek · 2004-06-08 06:07 · Score: 1

I thought that was carbon buckyballs or maybe just bucks balls.

I'm waiting for it to be proven that water causes cancer
Re:Toxicity? by HerbieStone · 2004-06-08 06:08 · Score: 1

Nanotubes are as toxic as Gen-modified ogranisms... they pose a potential thread to the current known environment... we just don't know if the thread is real or not, and in what way.
The thread comes from the size of nanotubes. Nanotubes are so small, that they can slip past your skin and later pierce a cell. Then within the cell nanotubes might influence how the cell reproduces... namly the DNA could be changed. Result: random mutation and possibly cancer.
That's what the Nanotube-danger gossip tells. Fact is, I haven't seen a single test with animals or smaller organisms exposed to nano-tech. Maybe Nanotubes aren't hazordous by themself. Maybe there are simple procedures or a mechanism to protect the environment from nano-tech, like self distruction when exposed to light or something.
But maybe not. We shall see.
Re:Toxicity? by danharan · 2004-06-08 06:09 · Score: 1

Last I heard certain nanotubes were toxic to the environment. Does anyone know whether these suffer from the same issue?
Rachels environment and health weekly had a three part series looking at dangers of new technologies, including nanotech.

Apparently, studies on lab rats show that small particles don't harm them as much as very small ones, and that nanoparticles are worst of all.

It probably won't be a big problem for consumers, assuming the end product is stable; I'm more concerned for those producing it. Likely a few scientists, like the Curies, will die from stuff that's in their labs :(

I'm also less concerned with the grey goo hypothesis than the nanohaze we could be getting.

--
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
Re:Toxicity? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 06:10 · Score: 0

I am sure the people working with the stuff with eventually tell us how toxic it is.
Re:Toxicity? by MenTaLguY · 2004-06-08 06:11 · Score: 4, Informative

Fact is, I haven't seen a single test with animals or smaller organisms exposed to nano-tech.

hellooooooooo?

(courtesy of morcheeba)

--

DNA just wants to be free...
Re:Toxicity? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 06:16 · Score: 0

I'm waiting for it to be proven that water causes cancer

You asked for it. :)
Re:Toxicity? by Borg453b · 2004-06-08 06:23 · Score: 1

Extended exposure to life will result in death.

--

- Mad, ingenous - they've both left you puzzled -
Re:Toxicity? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 07:14 · Score: 0

New things frighten and confuse me.
Re:Toxicity? by chiph · 2004-06-08 07:56 · Score: 1

From MenTaLguY's linked article:

These results show that, for the test conditions described here and on an equal-weight basis, if carbon nanotubes reach the lungs, they are much more toxic than carbon black and can be more toxic than quartz, which is considered a serious occupational health hazard in chronic inhalation exposures.

Uh-Oh.

I guess this is to be expected -- the ends of nanotubes are probably pretty sharp (relatively speaking), and would dig into lung tissue fairly easily. The people who work with them in their native state (in the chip fabs) would need filter masks, safety glasses & gloves. Of course, by the time a consumer sees them (like the aforementioned 5gb memory card) they'll be safe to handle with your bare hands.

Chip H.
Re:Toxicity? by HerbieStone · 2004-06-08 08:04 · Score: 1

Thanks for the link :)
Re:Toxicity? by Goldenhawk · 2004-06-08 08:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

Last *I* heard, eating the silicon chips from inside a flash disk was ALSO harmful to my health. Just like drinking the various chemicals used to produce them.

Okay, okay, it's a bit more complicated than that, but I have a hard time getting worried about nanotech just because it's nanotech. After all, the nanotech will be embedded within carrier material, just like all the current chips. Just as with most modern technology, the manufacturing process isn't necessarily safe for bystanders, and requires careful attention. Same for the disposal process.

Nothing new here.

--
--Brandon / Split Infinity Music
Re:Toxicity? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 08:29 · Score: 0

Seems like it would be similar to working with fiberglass or aesbestos to me.
Re:Toxicity? by Midnight+Thunder · 2004-06-08 09:20 · Score: 1

I don't have any issues with nanotech, as long proper environmental issues are taken into account. Things like PCBs were banned because when they entered the environment could cause problems. This is one reason why some countries are now requiring computer companies to take it open themselves to recycle the computers at the end of their life. The idea is the computer manufacturers will make a better effor to make computers economic, and safer, to recycle if they have to deal with it.

--
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Re:Toxicity? by drinkypoo · 2004-06-08 11:03 · Score: 1

The answer is probably to bind them together with stuff that burns clean. Carbon burns very nicely and that way you can just incinerate the little suckers by tossing them in your fireplace or campfire - it neatly solves the issue of nonrecoverable destruction of data, as well.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Toxicity? by cpt_rhetoric · 2004-06-08 11:41 · Score: 1

I'm going to have to make sure that my son sends his son/daughter to law school with a note to remember this stuff, along with the words Class Action Lawsuit. That way, I can spend my kids inheritance without worrying.
Re:Toxicity? by mdm42 · 2004-06-08 21:18 · Score: 1

If it decays, how does it decay?

Hello! It's CARBON. Burn it. We've been disposing of Carbon-based solids this way for 2 million years.

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New mod option wanted: -1 DrunkenRambling
Re:Toxicity? by Mycroft_VIII · 2004-06-08 21:29 · Score: 1

Ok I know for certain I've read to many comics and seen to many movies.
Reading your second paragraph I found myself expect an ending more like:

The thread comes from the size of nanotubes. Nanotubes are so small, that they can slip past your skin and later pierce a cell. Then within the cell nanotubes might influence how the cell reproduces... namly the DNA could be changed. Result: random mutation and possibly unexplained powers and physical changes leading to a life of costumed crime fighting.

Mycroft

--
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
Re:Toxicity? by th3axe · 2004-06-09 02:30 · Score: 1

If I throw my wife's diamond ring into a fire, odd are pretty good I can just wait until the fires burns down to retrieve it. Just because one form of carbon burns well doesn't mean all forms of carbon burn well.

I gues my whole point is that before we go and start seriously producing this stuff, we should learn more about it and work through the questions. Maybe the answers are simple "Burn it" but maybe they aren't so simple. I'd like to think that we can learn from the lessons that other miracle technologies like DDT and cars have taught us. There's always unintended consequences, and maybe we can figure out a few of those before we start driving down the road.

I'm not saying the tool isn't goning to be useful, just that it would be wise to know more about it before we start using it. Sort of a RTFM for new tech.

--
"It's real and we can touch it, so least we know where we stand." - Jack Burton

no specs? by Cat_Byte · 2004-06-08 05:29 · Score: 1

Anyone know much about these things? Speed? Power consumption advantages/disadvantages? This just seems like a VP presentation spew about "we're using this. good day.".

--
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.

Only two questions... by Spaceman40 · 2004-06-08 05:29 · Score: 1

How much, and when is this going to get into my Neuros?

--
I [may] disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Re:w t f by RobertB-DC · 2004-06-08 05:31 · Score: 4, Funny

"I'm looking forward to only needing one memory card to store all the 5Mbit pictures that I'll take for the rest of my life."
whoa get a life!
How about trying to use it to feed children?

Yeah, 'cause a typical CF card contains 100% of the US RDA of High-Impact Plastic! Not to mention 62.5% of the RDA for Silicon, plus important trace elements like copper wiring and gold plating!

--
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.

Re:w t f by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2004-06-08 05:32 · Score: 3, Funny

How about trying to use it to feed children?

I seem to remember an earlier story about fish dying when they were fed nanotubes- so I doubt you'd want to feed it to children.

--
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.

Pricing by BlindSpy · 2004-06-08 05:32 · Score: 1

Anyone have any speculations on what the price trend will be? Expensive? Cheaper? compared to similar products on the market.

--
Whoever dies with the most toys wins.

Re:Pricing by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:58 · Score: 0

Slashdot is only full of mindless, dull sysadmins who cannot think outside the box. How dare you ask this question.

Re:w t f by betelgeuse-4 · 2004-06-08 05:33 · Score: 3, Funny

I doubt that a child would eat a memory card, even if they were really hungry.

--
Decode these

No way by nizo · 2004-06-08 05:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm looking forward to only needing one memory card to store all the 5Mbit pictures that I'll take for the rest of my life.

I don't empty my 8MB card to the computer often enough already, so if the card never got full the family pictures wouldn't get seen by anyone else until I died and someone else inherited my camera.

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I Am My Own Worst Enemy

Re:No way by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 06:46 · Score: 0

...so if the card never got full the family pictures wouldn't get seen by anyone else until I died and someone else inherited my camera.

Really, and nobody I know would want to give a eulogy about a porn addict.
Re:No way by Lord_Dweomer · 2004-06-08 20:47 · Score: 1

Perhaps then you need to develop the habit of unloading the pictures, rather than start thinking that a technology is a bad thing for that reason.
Anyways, I'm sure there's a camera out there where you only have to hit a button and it wirelessly transmits all images to your computer. And if not there should be.

--
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!

what about it's environmental effects by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:34 · Score: 0, Redundant

how about if it is left in the environment, or becomes airborne and is inhaled, or is accidentally ingested??

Re:what about it's environmental effects by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2004-06-08 05:38 · Score: 4, Interesting

And just how exactly is that supposed to happen with a chip encased in plastic? Are you going to put your memory chips in a blender? I guarantee you- if you powder any silicon chip to a size where it could become airborne and inhaled, you're likely to cause siliconitis at the very least (this used to happen to coal miners all the time, horrible disease that can take 60-80 years to do enough damage to your lungs to kill you).

--
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Re:what about it's environmental effects by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:41 · Score: 0

yeah! wtf! how the hell is anyone gonna inhale it?!

however, what if it has properties similar to asbestos?
Re:what about it's environmental effects by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:50 · Score: 0

how about if it is left in the environment, or becomes airborne and is inhaled, or is accidentally ingested??

If you're worried about this, stay away from the gas tank on your car.
Re:what about it's environmental effects by Carl+T · 2004-06-08 05:57 · Score: 5, Insightful

however, what if it has properties similar to asbestos?
Cheap, well-insulating, durable, and rather bad for construction workers and others who shred and inhale lots of it? I think how the hell is anyone gonna inhale it?! pretty much sums it up. Disposing of these little nanotubes should be easy enough if you can burn them, I would think. That leaves the question of how to disassemble the chips in an orderly fashion, but I figure that's pretty much the same problem you're faced with when recycling electronics today. Not that people don't just dump their old machines in the trash, but anyway.
I'd worry a lot more about the flame retardants and other goo that's still being used in enormous amounts in computers. There's a half-year old computer in my office, and ever since it got here I've had to open the window every morning, or the fumes from it make me cough. Not sure what exactly the computer is giving off, but whatever it is I don't think it's particularly good for me.

--

This signature is not in the public domain.
Re:what about it's environmental effects by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 06:39 · Score: 0

I guess we just _have_ to test it on some cute little bunnies.....
Re:what about it's environmental effects by servognome · 2004-06-08 06:48 · Score: 1

Yes because nobody would throw random objects into a kitchen appliance

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D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
Re:what about it's environmental effects by Pendersempai · 2004-06-08 07:22 · Score: 3, Interesting

how about if it is left in the environment, or becomes airborne and is inhaled, or is accidentally ingested??
How about current computer components? There's plenty of toxic stuff already in your computer -- the trick, as it has always been, will be: don't leave it in the environment, don't snort it, don't eat it.
If you can handle that with current computers, you're probably good to go for nanotubular memory.
Re:what about it's environmental effects by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2004-06-08 07:39 · Score: 1

however, what if it has properties similar to asbestos?

It does- but so does the silicon used in chips today when it's ground up or otherwise broken. As well as any other inhaleable dust. That's where the name of the disease comes from.

--
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Re:what about it's environmental effects by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 07:44 · Score: 1, Funny

There's a half-year old computer in my office, and ever since it got here I've had to open the window every morning, or the fumes from it make me cough. Not sure what exactly the computer is giving off, but whatever it is I don't think it's particularly good for me.

It's probably giving off hypochondriacticals. I suggest immediately throwing it out and replacing it with a pad and pencil.
Re:what about it's environmental effects by CrimsonAvenger · 2004-06-08 08:21 · Score: 1

(this used to happen to coal miners all the time, horrible disease that can take 60-80 years to do enough damage to your lungs to kill you).
60-80 years to kill you?? Wow! that means if you start working in the mines at 15, your average life expectancy might only be 75-95.
As opposed to the 77 it is now in the USA....

--

"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Re:what about it's environmental effects by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2004-06-08 08:31 · Score: 1

My gradfather stopped working in the mines at 17, when he got a contract to take care of horses for the building of the first Interstate through North Dakota- and it finally killed him at 83. I'm sure increased exposure would kill you quicker- he only worked in the mines for five years.

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SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Re:what about it's environmental effects by CrimsonAvenger · 2004-06-08 08:44 · Score: 1

Neither of my grandfathers worked in a mine, ever. Neither made it to 80.

--

"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Re:what about it's environmental effects by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 09:45 · Score: 0

That happened to hit the news just yesterday. Bioaccumulative poisons are released from many computers. Dell and Apple no longer use these flame retardants. Google
Re:what about it's environmental effects by Xaroth · 2004-06-08 09:50 · Score: 1

Not sure what exactly the computer is giving off, but whatever it is I don't think it's particularly good for me.

Oh no! You've let out the magic smoke! Quick! Try to shove it back in before too much of it escapes, or your computer will never work again!

--
That green slime had it coming.
Re:what about it's environmental effects by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2004-06-08 10:46 · Score: 1

My other grandfather didn't make it to 70, for that matter (died of brain cancer). I didn't say there weren't other diseases that couldn't get you FIRST- only that it takes 60-80 years to die from siliconitis.

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SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Re:what about it's environmental effects by narcc · 2004-06-08 12:05 · Score: 1

This is the funniest AC post I've ever seen...

--
Required reading for internet skeptics

stock prices by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:36 · Score: 0

well, they haven't jumped yet, but I bet this would be a good time to invest, if you had the money...

have to say it... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:37 · Score: 1, Funny

more space for pr0n!!!!

you know you were thinking it...

How long before... by farzadb82 · 2004-06-08 05:37 · Score: 4, Interesting

Hardware vendors use this technolog to bring us a truely "instant on" feature to our laptops and PCs ?

Re:How long before... by MyHair · 2004-06-08 08:53 · Score: 1

Shortly after MS goes out of business.
Re:How long before... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 14:06 · Score: 0

yeah because windows xp only takes about 10 seconds to boot on my pc but linux (mandrake to be precise) takes about 5

uh huh

I speculate by Tsiangkun · 2004-06-08 05:37 · Score: 3, Funny

that we will be promised larger, faster, cheaper, longer lastings products, but do to low levels of adoption they will be more expensive then the existing products at release. Slowly over time, as more people switch to the new products, the price will rise even higher with demand, and our formerly cheaper products will rise in price too, because they are now in limited supply.

It's just a speculation.

Re:I speculate by tweek · 2004-06-08 05:59 · Score: 1

Sad thing is...I don't think anyone will get this post.

Brilliant sir.

--
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
Re:I speculate by PostConsumerRecycled · 2004-06-08 07:32 · Score: 1

Well, let's try not to distribute music on these then.

--

There is no dark side of the moon really, matter of fact it's all dark
Re:I speculate by jaavaaguru · 2004-06-08 09:46 · Score: 1

I read that as:

that we will be promised lager
I think it's getting too close to bed time.

--
Follow me

Wait till Steve Jobs gets ahold of these by TVC15 · 2004-06-08 05:42 · Score: 1

when they get of large enough capacity. iPod Nanos for Everyone!

Re:Wait till Steve Jobs gets ahold of these by taped2thedesk · 2004-06-08 05:51 · Score: 2, Funny

iPod Nanos for Everyone!
Maybe they'll look something like Will Ferrell's tiny cell phone in the SNL rich clothing store sketch ?
Re:Wait till Steve Jobs gets ahold of these by linzeal · 2004-06-08 06:24 · Score: 1

Woo hoo, I can implant all the music ever performed in a special place behind my ear, and listen to a new song every second of my waking life and still be rocking when they bury me!

--
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Re:Wait till Steve Jobs gets ahold of these by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 14:19 · Score: 0

Knowing Apple, They'll probably call it something more clever than "IPod Nano"

I'd go with iDrop personally

Re:w t f by kclittle · 2004-06-08 05:46 · Score: 5, Funny

I doubt that a child would eat a memory card, even if they were really hungry.

You've obviously never been the parent of a 18 month old toddler.

--
Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.

Re:w t f by spankfish · 2004-06-08 05:47 · Score: 1

what's stopping them? they already eat dirt. a memory card would be a step up, i think.

--

NO TOUCH MONKEY!

5Mbit or 5Mpixel? by tji · 2004-06-08 05:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm looking forward to only needing one memory card to store all the 5Mbit pictures that I'll take for the rest of my life

5Mbit pictures? 5Mb = 640KB, so you can already store 6,250 pictures on a 4GB microdrive. Not a lifetime's amount, but quite a long time at my rate of picture taking.

I suspect he meant 5 Mpixel, which would be much bigger than 640KB each.

Re:5Mbit or 5Mpixel? by linzeal · 2004-06-08 06:17 · Score: 1

I use my cheap digital camera for taking pictures of local venues for my up and coming local review site and go through about 30-50 pictures a day. This will be heaven sent for those of us who would use this for business or the like.

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An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Re:5Mbit or 5Mpixel? by spinlocked · 2004-06-08 09:44 · Score: 1

To quote futurama:

You're technically correct - the best kind of correct. :)

--
# init 5 Connection closed.

Oh... ...bugger.

Vaporware? Not on LSI Logic site by Animats · 2004-06-08 05:49 · Score: 3, Interesting

There's no mention of this on the LSI Logic site.

Nantero isn't publicly held, though, so this isn't a stock hype.

Re:Vaporware? Not on LSI Logic site by snoochyboochy · 2004-06-08 06:34 · Score: 1

Not on the LSI site yet, but there is coverage in the NYT and the Oregonian newspaper:
Oregonian Article
Re:Vaporware? Not on LSI Logic site by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 08:11 · Score: 0

Here is the LSI story
http://lsinews.co.lsil.com/news/stories/new shandle r.cfm?NewsID=843&CatID=4

Re:w t f by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 05:52 · Score: 1, Funny

Nice computer: $2000; Operating System: $0; Only rebooting when I want to: Fucking Priceless

Hey I use Windows 2K too!

Re:w t f by Eviscero · 2004-06-08 05:56 · Score: 1

What about with ketchup? Will they eat it with ketchup???? Lots of people will eat anything with ketchup on it, maybe they will too.

--

It's not what you know; It's what you can find out.

If only ... by torpor · 2004-06-08 05:59 · Score: 5, Interesting

only needing one ... more people thought like this, about lots of things.

but alas, what will more likely happen is 'consumericans' and other dis-world orders will 'drive the demand' up for super hi-res video, and we'll all be having HDTV Home Video dumps to sony-marketed 'nano-bricks' ... and you'll still be needing piles and piles of 'media' around, for those moments.

things will just get 'prettier' and 'waaay bigger', the functions will stay the same ... and so will the markets.

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --

Macs already do this... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 06:02 · Score: 0

... the iBook I'm typing this on wakes up instantly when you open the lid. It will sleep for about a month (my estimate) on a full battery charge.

My PowerMac is usable within a second of wakeup, though my CRT monitor takes a little longer to show a picture.

Re:Macs already do this... by jhoger · 2004-06-08 08:07 · Score: 1

And how much time do you get if you actually use it? Who cares how long it will sleep...

Until battery life is over 10 hours I am sticking with my 8-bit laptops... which get on the order of 20 hours of normal use (months of sleep if you care about that)

Model 100/102, Cambridge Z88, Amstrad NC100/200, NEC 8500/Starlet...

Hopefully this new technology will enable portable PCs with no hard drive... that will revolutionize our expectations for portable computers in battery life, ruggedness, "instant on", etc.
Re:Macs already do this... by fakeplasticusername · 2004-06-08 15:56 · Score: 1

I would be all for low processing power machines, if my code didn't take so damn long to compile. If i have to wait for 10 seconds on my 2.4ghz, i'd hate to see compile times of 20 mins on an old beater...
Re:Macs already do this... by jhoger · 2004-06-09 06:24 · Score: 1

Yes, but... No one would write anything for an 8-bit machine that took 20 minutes to compile. Even with clunky floppies as mass storage I can't remember anything that took more than a minute or two if that.

some more information by vmircea · 2004-06-08 06:03 · Score: 5, Informative

Check out some of these sites:

Nano Dot Article
Tech Review
A neat simulation
WordIQ

These all do a good deal to help explain / show you some interesting things. Give them a look-see.

Are memory futures down? by 192939495969798999 · 2004-06-08 06:05 · Score: 2, Informative

I'll believe it when the memory futures market nose-dives. If I go to Micro Center, and regular RAM chip prices are down 20% or more across the board, then nanotube memory is DEFINITELY coming to market like, soon.

No, I'm not using the 80's translation server, I really do talk like this... sorry, I lived in the valley in the 80's (when I was little) and it totally warped my speech.

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stuff |

Re:w t f by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 06:07 · Score: 0

China disagrees.

Because by fasura · 2004-06-08 06:08 · Score: 1, Offtopic

The formatting is preserved and there is a much higher chance that the data will be preserved in it's original form. Also many companies to believe that the encryption in Acrobat will protect their information.

--
-- Be careful what you say. Someone might remind you about it another day.

Re:Because by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 06:13 · Score: 0

formatting I agree with... encryption - on a press release?! They want to release this and get the most readership - why not make it available in lots of formats so no one is left out?
Re:Because by jmulvey · 2004-06-08 06:40 · Score: 3, Interesting

Because the "new, new economy" business model is to make it difficult for customers to use your product, and then sue the pants off anyone that tries to help them.

Accordingly, I expect Slashdot to receive a subpoena shortly to determine who the above poster is -- Because he has now violated the DMCA by "bypassing an encyption technology" !

Yippee! A new revenue stream for Nantero !!!

eh yeah... by torpor · 2004-06-08 06:08 · Score: 1

maybe you labrats can 'make things' in your laboratories, but lets see you 'grow' a full-blown scaled facility that is capable of yields warranting the ultra-millions the finance monkies are throwing at the problem ...

industry. its not just a petri dish.

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --

Publicly held...sort of! by Prince+Vegeta+SSJ4 · 2004-06-08 06:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

Nantero itself is not publicly held, nevertheless Harris and Harris has significant holdings in Nantero, and they are traded as TINY

So while not a pure play on a single stock, it can still suffer from some of the volatility generated in the market environment.

Re:Publicly held...sort of! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 07:06 · Score: 0

WTF? That second link you gave tried to load&run some executable on my system. Yipes!

I think the article is misleading by SteroidMan · 2004-06-08 06:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

It says nothing about being ready to mass-produce the technology. In fact, the way I read the article, the partnership is so that they can try to create any sort of working process that is even remotely cost-effective and works reliably. This is a long way from commercial viability. Without this partnership, Nantero has no ability to fab this kind of technology at any volume on their own. It sounds as if they are using the joint partership to go hunting for funding. I don't even see a concrete product announcement

Re:I think the article is misleading by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 10:27 · Score: 0

The article clearly states several times the companies will begin development not go into production. No production timelines were ever given as far as I could see.

Space is never enough by galo_2099 · 2004-06-08 06:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

If you have space to take all your 5 Megapixels photos for the rest of your life, you'll start taking 50 Megapixels photos. If you still have more space, you'll start making videos.
Just bring the space, and we'll use it!

Re:Space is never enough by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 07:06 · Score: 1, Interesting

Well, I remember reading in those sci-fi novels about people fixated on recording everything that happened to them...video 24 hrs/day. And then the loopiness that happens when you record yourself watching old recordings of yourself watching old recordings of ... you get the idea.
That would be a good use for really cheap, dense, portable low-power memory. (And no, I didn't RTFA yet.)

It's still CMOS by cyfer2000 · 2004-06-08 06:46 · Score: 1

It's still CMOS, only CMOS with "nanotubes in CMOS", doesn't mean it is nanotube semiconductor.

--
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.

PRAM and bahbies by crovira · 2004-06-08 06:55 · Score: 1

Who's that, pushing the PRAM?

The nanny of course.

--
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.

Re:w t f by betelgeuse-4 · 2004-06-08 06:59 · Score: 1

"Faith? The Al Qaeda hijackers had faith. The Nazi's had faith. The Jim Jones cult had faith. You ask me to have faith?" Martin Luther King had faith, Mother Teresa had faith, Ghandi had faith. Faith is like a knife, it isn't good or bad, but it can be used in good or bad ways.

--
Decode these

First Post: Redundant? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 07:49 · Score: 0, Interesting

Gotta love the moderators:

Moderation +5
70% Informative
20% Redundant
10% Insightful

It's a first post! (And yes, I'm kinda proud of that, for some twisted reason.) How can a first post be "Redundant"? And it looks like at least two moderators thought so. Strange... wish I got a moderation report for anonymous posts so I could count the votes.

Here's another one: how can a repost of a company press release be "Insightful"? But I'll grant the mods a pass for that simple mistake... and if someone will finally give me mod points, I might even quit whining!

Re:First Post: Redundant? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 07:58 · Score: 0, Offtopic

You know, it's funny because I never meta-moderate any more, I hardly ever post, and I get mod points at least a couple of times a month. Go figure.

Has no one ever seen a Tech Press Release? by Tristan7 · 2004-06-08 07:56 · Score: 3, Insightful

The article says develop semiconductor process technology. This is MARKETING people. Nothing has happened, no technology has even passed between the two companies. It's a deal between the companies to both share the expenses of brining this to market. But the reason it's short on details is becaues there aren't any.

Software architecture implications? by infolib · 2004-06-08 08:19 · Score: 1

Ok, so we've got our new NRAM machine. When it's powered on the (N)RAM is the same as when it was powered off, but the CPU and all external units (networking, graphics, printer etc.) will have to be re-initialized. Is it feasible for the current Linux kernel to exploit these features to the max with a few patches, or is a thorough redesign needed?

What should software be like, when "save" and "save as" make little sense since the file stays in (N)RAM anyway? Wouldn't "saving your document" be replaced with something more akin to tagging a CVS branch? (Perhaps such a system would be a good idea even today with the price and speed of modern hard drives.)

--
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.

Re:w t f by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 08:26 · Score: 0

Nice computer: $2000; Operating System: $0; Only rebooting when I want to: Fucking Priceless

So you also got XP for free from Microsoft via the university program?

Re:w t f by kclittle · 2004-06-08 08:31 · Score: 1

Point taken. In the mean time, I'll keep the memory cards, knives and faiths out of my kid's sticky little fingers! :-)

--
Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.

Toxicity in Fish by morcheeba · 2004-06-08 08:33 · Score: 1

it's nice when people respond - thanks, hs.

Here's another article on buckyball toxicity in fish. It's not the nanotubes used in the memory, but another small carbon fuerene-esque structure.

But, the solution might be to take flash pictures of everything I eat or breathe. :-)

--
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets

Nanotubes not ready for prime time by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 09:25 · Score: 1, Interesting

As of 2 years ago, some of the world's best researchers on this field gave talks, which I attended, indicating that nanotubes remain fiendishly difficult to manipulate. Nothing I have read since then indicates otherwise.

Progress is being made such as at IBM, hence the commercial interest, but it's not particularly close to being ready for prime time. Basically nobody knows hot to get nanotubes in the right place other than by "hand" with an AFM and nothing less will get you a transistor for memory.

OOPS! by ca1v1n · 2004-06-08 10:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

Ummm... I wish my tennis racket was made of nanotubes. I could sell it and never work again. Take the article with a huge grain of salt, because they've confused nanotubes with graphite fiber.

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WARNING: there is a trojan on your

Toxicity still lower than career laboratory work by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 10:14 · Score: 0

Gotta love that phrase "euthanized".

"..euthanized 7 d or 90 d after the single treatment for histopathological study of the lungs"

Shock news: Lab work is 100% fatal to sucker mice

What Makes you Think by Mark_MF-WN · 2004-06-08 11:44 · Score: 1

What makes you think we haven't already used them in experiments? It would explain an awful lot.

When did SRAM become non-volatile? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 12:31 · Score: 1, Insightful

"Carbon nanotube memories could sharply improve the performance of cellphones, laptop computers and other electronic devices. Like today's flash and SRAM memories, carbon nanotube designs can maintain data when power is turned off, an advantage over dynamic random access memory, or DRAM, memory chips, which must constantly be refreshed. But it can operate considerably faster and on less power than flash memory, and is much cheaper and more compact than SRAM."

That's funny, I don't remember SRAM being able to magically keep its state after the power was removed.

I can't stand it when writers for major press entities can't get their facts straight about basic technologies, like what the static in SRAM actually means. Of course, this is the NY times, so what should we expect?

Another vaporware should we say by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-08 13:00 · Score: 0

Sometime back there was a company(www.t-ram.com) who tried to built SRAMs with thyristors in their labs(>30M funding). Their advantage? Those morons could build a vertical structure and create a cell in a fraction of the normal 6T area. And then came www.nantero.com who claims to build in their labs, cells such that a tiny tube is going to bend to make a connection to GND bus or stay unconnected. Hey, these are lab versions only, remember a working single electron memory cell is also there!

Re:w t f by CommieLib · 2004-06-08 17:14 · Score: 1

Furthermore, Stalin didn't have faith, Pol Pot didn't have faith, Tim McVeigh...

Mankind is evil. There's no quick fix.

--
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.

Warning PDF rant by Mycroft_VIII · 2004-06-08 20:21 · Score: 1

rant warning!

Personaly I loathe pdf. It looks like someone trying to immitate a book on a monitor. And as someone who loves both books and computers I find it just plain stupid.
There are to many better ways to present info. And I for one wish people would learn to use them.
Don't get me wrong, there are probably a few small niches PDF is good for. But frankly 95% of all the pdf files I've seen have no bussiness being in pdf. And the few where it kinda worked probably could have been done better as html.
Not to mention the size these things blow up to. in my experience what would be a 20k text file with two or three 100k jpgs winds up 2-3 megs somtimes.
Ok my rant is over now.
Mycroft

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Production??? Who claims production? by rew · 2004-06-08 21:36 · Score: 1

After RTFA, I concluded that these two companies are entering a research cooperation to try and develop something that might make it into the market within a decade or so.

What did I misread? Where does it say they are going into production???

Threat by mabinogi · 2004-06-08 23:47 · Score: 1

Threat, threat, threat, threat, THREAT!

Seriously, where do you come from that you can confuse thread with threat?

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I'm working too much... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-09 00:55 · Score: 0

Somehow I read that as "vacuum tube non-volatile memory".

I used to go to the back of the TV when I was a kid to look at them.

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Nanotube Non-Volatile Memory Entering Production

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