Cut-Rate Windows 'XP Starter Edition' in Thailand

zlel writes "Microsoft has decided on an official name - 'Windows XP Starter Edition' - for the stripped-down, cut-rate version of Windows that it first began offering in Thailand last summer."

Comments

I want a copy!

[MrMojado]

Where Can I get my English version of this "cut rate" enhancement?

Re:I want a copy!

[darkpixel2k]

Right here.

Re:I want a copy!

[Daengbo]

Well, you know I haven't RTFA, but since I have written extensively about it in my journal and was living there when it was introduced in response to a million pre-installed Linux machines, I'll comment anyway.

The menus are all in Thai, and cannot be modified, meaning that many installed programs wouldn't appear on the menus or possibly even run. It was only available on the"Eua Athorn" computers, a low cost Celeron socket 370 government program. In fact, though the legal copies could be installed when the computers were picked up, few people did it, and instead had their friend put a pirated copy from Panthip Plaza or similar place on for them.
It was a failure of an idea, and will continue to be. It was designed to start THais on legal software, and move them up to the full versions later. Few bought the idea, beccause it involved changing their old habit for a greater expense, and the brief shadow of government enforcement quickly faded away.

I had great hopes for the million Linux machine program, but alas.

Analogy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this the software equivalent of those first cigarettes behind the toilet block? You know, the ones that get you hooked for life?

Re:Analogy?

[FuzzyDaddy]

You get hooked when your data and files start accumulating in a proprietary format which may be difficult to translate over.

Re:Analogy?

[Anonymous Coward]

So by your argument, cigarettes must be a good product, as people continue to smoke them? Don't by any chance work for a cigarette PR firm, with thinking like that?

You've missed the point. Just as people on drugs are addicted and don't see any alternative, so people on MS products get stuck with proprietory data formats and incompatibility and don't see any easy way out of their prison, even if they want to leave. The quality of the product has nothing to do with continued use.

Re:Analogy?

[Nasarius]

And your infrastructure. It's not trivial to switch a network with thousands of users from Exchange to a Unix/Linux product.

Re:Analogy?

[Aero Leviathan]

People generally start smoking because they like cigarettes, to my knowledge. I didn't say they weren't hazardous to your health, nor did I say Microsoft products were 'good for you' (although I'd be surprised if you made an argument they were actually unhealthy... although I suppose on Slashdot, anything goes...)

Also, MS Word can save as RTF and a variety of other formats, you know... it's up to you.

I guess IHBT, IHL, etc. I will HAND :P

Re:Analogy?

[finkployd]

IMAP makes a nice replacement for the mail portion of exchange. Plus as an added bonus it scales nicely. Last I heard MS ran some 200-400 exchange servers for their company which is insignificant compared to the university I work at with 130,000+ users and 4-5 million emails a day. We tend to laugh at them when they try to tell us Exchange would be the way to go without actually realizing out infrastructure is larger than anything they know how to support effectivly.

Re:Analogy?

[Epistax]

Kind of. Take me for example. I wanted to play old games with people across the internet which required an IPX network. Microsoft's home grown solution is their VPN client/esrver package which is naturally built into the entire user/security system. Anyway I wanted to use this system for gaming, just one problem: I had/have windows xp professional. This version of windows has an arbitrary limit of one VPN connection. If I want multiple VPN connections I need to buy Advanced Server. Now coming from their point of view there might be some sort of reason for this cripple ware, but coming from my point of view they want me to pay a couple thousand bucks to play old games.

How does this make me feel? Infuriated. I have yet to find a suitable replacement (there used to be a few online services which created IPX networks but you had to play by their rules and pay monthly fees). Thank you Microsoft, for dangling the carrot in front of my face, letting me smell it, and then ripping it away. The final snub is (I am told) when installing Advanced Server it asks you how many connections you want to be able to accept.

Ah well it really just comes down to me complaining, but it sure doesn't make me like Microsoft anymore. Remember when Notepad used to have an arbitrary file size limit? (The limit value wasn't arbitrary, the fact that they had it was) Good times.

Re:Analogy?

[Anonymous Coward]

RTF was designed by one of Microsoft/Corel as a least common denominator format for word processors. It doesn't have any page formatting features (yes it does) , no tables (yes it does) , no embedded images (yes it does) , nothing. The only application it might be useful for is email, but it doesn't even do hyperlinks. (yes it does)

wow. did you even try it out before you posted your stupid diatribe?

Re:Analogy?

[finkployd]

If you compare your sendmail/postfix/whatever server "equally" to Exchange you don't know what you are talking about.

Precisely why I specifically said "the email portion of Exchange". Go back and actually read it this time, I'll wait. ...

There are certainly other (and better) calendar, task, distributed filesystems, etc. However as you mention, they are not all in the same client. I suppose for some people it is worth the price in vendor lock in, buggy software, and security issues to have everything bundled like that. For many however it is not.

Finkployd

Re:Analogy?

[Anonymous Coward]

raw, "pure" RTF doesn't have any of those. what you're thinking of is ".rtf files that other RTF readers won't understand, because MS has decided to "proprietise" the format while leaving the extension the same, just like they did for .doc in the transition past Word95".

Which retard modded this insightful?

Re:Analogy?

[PeterPumpkin]

People generally start smoking because they're young and see "everyone else doing it"

Yeah, thats what the anti-smoking ads say. But in the real world, ask any smoker the reason they started and they'll tell you they were either curious what it was like, or because of side benefits - like in the US Navy (perhaps armed forces in general), and some workplaces, if you smoke, you get quick breaks that you wouldn't otherwise get. Anyone who tells you otherwise either has forgotten how they started, or doesn't think curiosity counts as a reason, and/or just uses the peer pressure BS as an excuse.

Personally, I've liked the smell of smoke since day one. One night I snuck out back by myself with one of my dad's smokes, and tried it. It was delicious.

Nowadays, being the complete asshat that I am, I try convincing people to start smoking all the time. Nobody has ever caved in, except for those who have tried tobacco before, and liked it, but those don't really count.

Now as for inhaling smoke being an unnatural act, think back to ancient times. In order to ensure the best protection, you need fire in your cave/hut/teepee/whatever to scare/smoke off the beasts. Those who could tolerate the smoke used fire, and slept well, breathing in the fumes as necessary. Those who couldn't were more likely to get eaten by bears, or at least have their food taken away. Fire been around as long as the hills, and smoke exposure along with it.

The pleasure of smoking is from the drug nicotine, not from smoking per se.

One could say smoking stirs ancient instincts within us, from those long lost cavedweller days, giving us feelings of comfort. I know if I wake up on one of those nights feeling alone for whatever reason, a nice fat stogie really helps.

In other words, I disagree. You could say the pleasure of drinking coffee comes from the caffeine, but thats not the whole story. You have the aroma, the taste, general oral stimulation, AND the main chemicals, as well as ancillary chemicals that make up the whole experience.

For example, those of you who smoke or have smoked, and have tried chaw/dip/etc chewing tobacco, what was your reaction after finishing? Of course..."OK, now I could sure use a cigarette." Ask anyone on the patch and they'll tell you the same thing.

That's just the thing....

[jwcorder]

They removed English from the OS for piracy concerns. Something about that stat 75% of all Asian installs were stolen.

Re:That's just the thing....

[pezpunk]

well, if the stripped out features include Windows Media Player, Windows Messaging, MSN, and all that other crap i spend my first half hour deleting after a clean install, then it might just be worth it to learn Thai ...

Re:That's just the thing....

[1u3hr]

They removed English from the OS for piracy concerns.

Do you have a source for this information?

I found this article that says: "Windows XP Starter Edition will be available in Thailand by September and Malaysia late this year, a Microsoft spokesman told Bloomberg news agency yesterday." In Malaysia, the national language Bahasa uses the Roman alphabet. Many of the Chinese and Indian minorities speak better English than Bahasa. So English is essential in Malaysia; even if they've tried to cripple it the Malaysian XP should be useable by an English speaker.

Re:That's just the thing....

[jwcorder]

If it takes you 30 mins to uncheck three boxes, then I think there is going to be a problem learning that second language.

Starter Edition.

[jb.hl.com]

Is anybody else making the connection between "starter" and "free first rock of crack", but the next is $x"?

Re:Starter Edition.

[Otter]

Believe me, they already all have Windows. It's more like "As long as every last one of you is pirating our software anyway, anything we can get you to pay for is a win for us."

There was (is?) a whole floor of the Mah Boon Krong department store in Bangkok for warez CD's. (Fortunately, the attitude towards payment cuts both ways there -- the first time in the MBK cafeteria, I took food from a bunch of vendors and walked off to the cashier to pay. They all waved and yelled and I waved back. Turns out you need to pay the vendors individually. Took a bit of backtracking and apologizing, but they all were content to just laugh their heads at an even dumber-than-usual farang.)

Faux Pas!

[tarquin_fim_bim]

Surely that implies all other editions are non-starters?

Re:Faux Pas!

[bgeer]

No no, the other editions are re-starters. As in every time you install anything.

Re:Faux Pas!

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

You haven't used XP, have you? Both XP and 2k were great about restarting. And not needing to when you install things.

Some things require reboots (Like Direct X), but that's because they modify files currently in use.

Oh wait, this is /. where blind attacks against the "Evil" Microsoft gets you rewarded.

Re:Faux Pas!

[EnsilZah]

There's the joke that goes:
"Windows has detected you have moved your mouse, would you like to restart for the changes to take place?"

Re:Faux Pas!

[bgeer]

I use 2K/XP nearly every day unfortunately, and virtually every time I install something it asks me to reboot. Whether it's InstallShield's problem or Windows's problem is irrelevant.

Also, your argument about DirectX is laughable. You don't even have to restart Linux to upgrade LIBC! ***LIBC***! Even the package manager that is actually upgrading libc is using libc! And it works just fine. This has been true since ELF was introduced way back in what '96 or so?

The whole reason behind the rebooting problem is the registry, and if MS gets rid of it I'll gladly stop making fun of it. Until then you and the rest of the MS-defender crowd will just have to keep stretching your credibility trying to defend it.

Re:Faux Pas!

[Anonymous Coward]

> The whole reason behind the rebooting problem is the registry, and if MS gets rid of it I'll gladly stop making fun of it. Until then you and the rest of the MS-defender crowd will just have to keep stretching your credibility trying to defend it.

Almost; the reason is in-use files; Windows can't update them in place the way Linux can, a Windows installer needs exclusive access to files it wants to overwrite. So, an installer makes a series of xxx.dll.1 or xxx.exe.1 or whatever.1 files for each in-use file, then writes a batch file that runs the next time the OS boots. Those .1 files are renamed to their intended targets, and then the OS finishes its startup.

Cheesy, but it works.

Re:Faux Pas!

[Anonymous Coward]

This was actually explained not long ago in somebody's blog, but I can't find it right now so I'll paraphrase.

The first problem is in-use file.

On Unix you can delete a file that's in-use and replace it. The actual storage isn't freed until the last handle is closed. On Windows, it doesn't work that way. Open handles don't keep storage around, so you can only rename the file to replace it (except on Win9x). But you can replace it, so that's only part of the problem. (for executable files, at least on Windows, you must keep the original file around while it's loaded for paging)

The other problem is dependencies between in-use files.

Suppose you have a program A, which uses DLLs B and C, and each of B and C use DLL D:
A -> B -> D
A -> C -> D
Now say A has loaded B, and in the process D, but has not yet loaded C. You come by and update all of the files, A, B, C, and D. Program A is still using the old versions of A, B, and D, because you can't guarantee that the old data structures will still work. It's never safe to swap out a running program in memory, even in Unix.

Now A comes across something that requires loading DLL C. C needs D, but D is already loaded in A's address space, so Windows will use the existing copy. And now you have a new version of C, expecting a new version of D (since you updated them at the same time), but using the old version. Loading the new D for the new C would have other problems, perhaps more difficult to debug.

If your programmers and users are all 100% clueful, you can avoid this problem (ie, make sure C will work with the older D), but Windows doesn't have this luxury.

The whole reason behind the rebooting problem is the registry

The only case where this might be so is for programs that read their settings once and forget about it. I don't think there's a solution for that that depends on how settings are stored.

In fact, the registry might be better for this problem, since you can ask for notifications when a section of the registry changes. Unix typicially uses SIG_HUP, which is just manual change notification.

And I don't know what you've been installing, but 90+% of the installs I see do not require reboots.

And the difference is?

[rms_nz]

Good to see good journalism is going out the door - it would be nice for it to mention what makes it "cut-down".

I know it says "As part of the deal, Microsoft also stripped out some unspecified features from both products" but surely there must be more details available than that?

New hit song by MS..

[Anonymous Coward]

One night in Bangkok makes Bill Gates humble
Not much between despair and ecstasy
One night in Bangkok and Microsoft tumble
Can't be too careful with your company
I can feel the devil walking next to me

Re:New hit song by MS..

[momerath2003]

In case anyone doesn't know, the parent is spoofing a song by Murray Head entitled One Night in Bangkok.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Howabout "Windows XP Trailer Park Edition" ?

The Microsoft mentality

[jdkane]

We don't want to provide a version of XP without Media Player to the EU. That would be catastrophic to our business.

However Thailand can have this nice stripped down version of XP.

Re:The Microsoft mentality

[rsmith-mac]

That's free trade for you; Microsoft is free to decide who they want to sell to, what they want to sell, and how they want to sell it, all to maximize their profit margin(their goal as a business). You can't have control over Microsoft, and that kind of free trade at the same time.

Re:The Microsoft mentality

[F13]

This also from the New Straits Times reveals the mentality:

Microsoft offered the discounts in Thailand so it could join the government's People's PC programme, after the Thai government began offering Linux through it.

No Product Activation

[Anita Coney]

I've read several stories about this stripped version of Windows, and what they all fail to mention is that it also lacks Product Activation. Sure, Product Activation in Asia is like duct taping your BMW's door shut in Detroit, but it's still significant.

People in Thailand can share their copies with their friends and family. But those of us in the rest of the world cannot. It just makes NO sense. We pay MORE for restrictions!!!

Re:No Product Activation

[Anita Coney]

The ten years it would take me to learn the language.

Re:No Product Activation

[Feztaa]

People in Thailand can share their copies with their friends and family. But those of us in the rest of the world cannot. It just makes NO sense. We pay MORE for restrictions!!!

It makes perfect sense. The market determines the price; people are willing to pay $300 for a box of windows, so MS charges $300. Other countries can't afford that much, so they reduce the price to help move the product.

The fact that you pay more for more restrictions is just funny; you have alternatives.

Re:No Product Activation

[_Sprocket_]

I've read several stories about this stripped version of Windows, and what they all fail to mention is that it also lacks Product Activation.

I suspect that Product Activation and other recent anti-copy measures have little to do with protecting sales. It is actually an attempt to derail a dangerous perception.

First, consider that "piracy" does not harm Microsoft. In the past decade or so, Microsoft's products have been widely pirated. Yet Microsoft's sales have still been impressive. And even an illegal copy of a product will work within Microsoft's lock-in business strategy.

So why all the recent activity with licensing? Microsoft must show that their products cost something. They must avoid looking like their software is free. If they fail to do this, they simply reenforce a major threat to their business; commodity software. Or, more specifically, the commodity operating system.

This new product reflects this strategy. Microsoft hasn't been especially concerned with the wide-spread illegal distribution of their products in Asia in the past. However, when the Thai government starts looking at Linux, Microsoft suddenly takes special steps.

Features left:

[Goalie_Ca]

Two features left out of this version:
-stability
-security

Re:Features left:

[MrMojado]

those features have been left out of every other version as well!

Starter Edition

[Philmeeh]

Does this include the undocumented features that allow a remote user to gain control of my system?

The Good and the Bad....

[CommanderData]

A stripped down version of Windows XP and Office XP could be infinitely better than the full versions in the USA if the right features were removed- remove active scripting and VBA from these products, take out a good percentage of the obscure features of Office that no one uses, and presto- a less bloated, more secure computing environment that just happens to have the MS logo on it.

Hell, for 38 bucks I would give it a try if they rolled it out here. Of course they won't do that, because this whole tactic is about training the next generation of PC owners (developing nations) to become dependant upon MS crack.

Re:$38?

[Tony Hoyle]

They already have that - if you acquire them under an academic license it costs a fraction of the retail price... selling them on is tricky (the licence wouldn't actually be valid unless you were an educational establishment) but the spam never mentions that little wrinkle.

How do you strip down XP anyway?

[Slayk]

It comes with like two useful applications. Pretty soon it'll be down to the shell and a handful of .dll files.

Re:How do you strip down XP anyway?

[name773]

use the tool for the job:
apple for graphics
*nix for servers
windows for solitare

So crime does pay then?

[grolschie]

The reward for ripping off software, is price reductions and less bloated software? What message is Microsoft giving here?

Another way to look at it

[howman]

Although there has been a lot of talk about how open source is safer and better in many ways than m$, pehaps m$ does have one thing *nix doesn't... As closed source there is no need for developers to learn english to create packages that work in their languages or for their needs.
Now don't get me wrong, I think M$ is evil... but, even though a non-native english speaker can run *nix in their own language, any programming they want to do is predominantly restricted to English.
I work in Japan and we do a fair amount of programming in C as well as other languages, and funny enough, although the english abilities of my co-workers are nominal at best, a few verbs and the odd noun, if I speak to them in code they understand me compleatly... It is truely weird... The other day I was trying to tell one of the programmers that the coffee machine was out of sugar, the standard english phrase "The coffee machine is out of sugar' had no effect, as soon as I said 'if led = 1 then sato(sugar) = 0' I was understood...
So back to my origional statement, although I think open source is much better for the computer industry, the lack of having to learn english in order to get something to work for your business is a definate plus to the managers who decide to implement something purely on the basis of cost.

Re:Another way to look at it

[dbirchall]

Translation and localization is certainly a very interesting topic - not just for developers, but for users. You're lucky - you live in a major industrialized nation that Microsoft can't really afford to ignore or treat as second-rate. So, in Japan, you get your MSDN and everything like that in Japanese.

Not everyone is so lucky. Microsoft Middle East (based in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, overseeing operations in the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Yemen, Lebanon, Jordan, Cyprus, Malta, Egypt and Pakistan) has hardly any content on its web sites (including the Middle East edition of MSDN) in anything but English. Nevermind that Arabic is the official language of the majority of those nations.

Re:So crime does pay then?

[baywulf]

No the message given out there is "Competition (from Linux for example) brings price reductions."

And so it begins...

[Garwulf]

Actually, I'm not surprised something like this has happened.

Microsoft is starting to see Linux as honest competition for the desktop market, and acting accordingly to become competitive again. I think you'll see something similar happen here - it wouldn't surprise me if the asking price for Microsoft software is cut dramatically in the next twenty-four months, and it also wouldn't surprise me if the quality starts to improve again.

All in all, this is a good thing, not a bad thing. The end users can only benefit from this.

Re:And so it begins...

[larko]

My impression is that Microsoft is doing this because it knows there are people that cannot afford XP at the full price, not because it is trying to become competetive "again" with linux. If a town of people in a very poor area can put up enough money to run 2 public terminals, that's $80 MSFT didn't have before. And now, 100 more people have used Windows.

If they cut prices in the US, it'll be because everyone who will pay $300 for XP has paid $300 for XP, not because they're afraid of Linux. I think MSFT views the two different markets entirely separately, and I don't think you can take what they do in one (the "emerging markets") and use it to infer anything they might do in the other (ours).

In terms of profit, I think it's rather genius. And best of all is that now it sort of looks to the media like MSFT cares about bringing third-world countries up to speed, slicing prices dramatically so that everyone can experience the glory of technology.

Shrinking Windows

[kaoshin]

Unfortunately the guy who crammed WOAF (Windows on a Floppy) took his information offline due to some sort of conflict with his employer. There was an article on shrinking windows on /. a year or two ago that mentioned this project. There are programs you can download to remove a lot of components from windows like litepc. I always knew someone would make a living out of decrufting windows! I have an old notebook I installed windows 2000 on so I can use Microsoft Mappoint on the road. Mappoint is a pretty big program. North American maps are like a 1.2GB full install so I needed to trim space, and litepc saved me a lot of time. Unfortunately most of my problem is usually introducing my own cruft on systems, which is why I like debian's cruft utility, debfoster and deborphan. If anyone knows any similar tools for FreeBSD I'd appreciate suggestions. I'm still trying to figure it all out, but all other apps I used on Linux were already supported in FreeBSD.

Re:$38?

[irokitt]

They could always run it through Babelfish.

"This program has executed a illegal operation.
If the problem insists, it comes in contact with the salesman of program."

Clippy sure gets a lot of flack

[Killswitch1968]

For some reason Clippy has managed to become the all-purpose whipping boy to use against Microsoft. After my first encounter with the creature I don't understand why this running gag is continually modded "Funny".
Is it because he's annoying? Well even if he is, there are still three easy opportunities to remove Clippy. The first is on install, where you can customize the installation to remove the "Office Assistant". The second is in Word instself, where you can permenently "Turn off the office assistant". Finally you can temporarily "Hide the office assistant".

Save your mod points for things that are truly worth it. Clippy has had enough.

Windows XP Beta?

[Doc Squidly]

I was in Thailand (Pattaya Beach, nice town, plenty of Adult Entertainment) before XP was resleased and got the Beta version of Windows XP for about 600 Baht, about $5 US at the time.

It's obvious that Microsoft is attempting to curb piracy in third-world countries. Sorry, it's not going to work. Once they've cracked the copy protection, XP Starter Edition will be should next XP Pro, Visual Studio .Net and Office 2003, all priced at 1,200 Baht (but, you can get them down to 600).

They even sell copies of Linux. Strangely, most PC I've seen in Thailand run pirated version of Windows. Even the people who sell copies of Linux next to Windows were surprised to learn that it was completely free.

More Linux advocacy in needed in such countries were the majority of the computer using population relay on pirated copies of Windows.

Re:Windows XP Beta?

[belmolis]

I've got no idea how much advocacy they are doing, but there is a Thai linux group. Their web site includes a library for Thai language support. There is a page (in Thai) about the activities of the Thai Linux Working Group.

Re:So crime does pay then?

[whm]

Don't be silly. The buying power of $38 in Thailand is much different from $38 in the US.

I'm in Bangkok at the moment actually, for the week. Perhaps some example prices:

1) dinner, with a beer: 80 Baht ($2)
2) 3 star hotel: 1000 Baht ($25)
3) Taxi to the airport: 400 Baht ($10)
4) Commuter train: 10 Baht (25 cents)
5) Recent LEGITIMATE video games: 400+ Baht ($10)
6) Recent LEGITIMATE DVDs: 200+ Baht ($5)
7) etc.

And that's all in Bangkok, not the countryside.

Anyways - if the actually expect people to buy a legitimate copy, they need to at least make an attempt pricing it properly. It's much more convincing to buy the $5 pirate copy of Windows (which you can get in the mall, in the street, you pick) when the legit version is hundreds of dollars! If the price comes down to a sane level, people will consider buying it.

Re:LOL

[Kenshin]

Yes, but every error dialog box will say something like "This Fuckin' Piece of Shit Doesn't Work!", it will completely screw up all complicated technical words like Ricky does, and the BSOD will now the the "Shit Storm of Death".

Plus, you'll end up going to jail once a year.

Just how stripped down?

[dtfinch]

Windows XP Home is pretty stripped down as it is. If they intend for this to compete with Linux, why strip it down at all? Linux is still free, and is usually distributed with 90% of the software you'll ever need.

This is one of Microsoft's big problems. You ask how much for a FULL, unrestricted version of Windows to put on a single DESKTOP system, and the answer is in the thousands of dollars, because they only expect enterprise users to need such functionality, and only on dedicated servers. If you buy XP home or professional, and install 3rd party server software to handle a peak of over 10 users (5 for home), you are violating the EULA.

Linux and similar operating systems give you the freedom to do whatever you damn well please with your system, something that Microsoft is incapable of offering without cutting deeply into their profits, because of their high market share.

Nearly exact analogy ...

[quarkscat]

to a drug dealer passing out crack cocaine
laced marijuana cigarettes to the kiddies
for free. Where else is the next generation
of Micro$oft clients going to come from?

At least they're prepared

[Gatton]

With about 95% of the country being Buddhist at least they're already familiar with the concept of suffering ;-)

So they really could make a stripped down version

[foniksonik]

I was under the impression that MS wasn't able to make a version of Windows without all the bells and whistels... I guess it's okay now that all of their lawsuits have been settled. So they are guilty of anti-trust and they are liars, this isn't news.

When will the US see a version of Windows that is JUST an Operating System? I wouldn't even mind it if they included a separate disk with 'bundled' but optional software, like a music player, a photo album tool, and maybe some video editing software... heck for the good PCs they could even include some sort of DVD authoring tool. ;-p

If MS wises up...

[mattgreen]

Then they'd realize there is a sect of users who would love something like this in the US and Europe. People that don't want the damn animated dogs telling them how to search, or Fisher Price UIs. People who aren't afraid to drag out the command prompt to do things and enjoy having options. Hopefully they get the message that there are still power users on Windows, but it certainly feels like an endangered species at times -- many UI innovations are little more than eye candy or making the UI easier for novice users. Meanwhile, most real power users have graduated to OS X or Linux where they don't have to feel like they are being talked down to.

All the bundled crap should be optional. That means I should be able to choose whether to install:
* IE, including disabling shell integration. Additionally I should be able to replace IE with an alternative browser that is used through the system, including applications that embed IE through COM.
* Media player
* Windows messenger

I should be able to fine tune which services are installed and have them explained to me at install time so I know exactly what ports are open. A compiler and build tool for C, C++ and C# should come preinstalled and in the path. You should be able to do anything from the console that you can do from the GUI.

If this seems outlandish, they could have it simply be two alternate modes of setup whereby you select your expertise level. Like, an "Express" install option versus an "Advanced" mode that lets you tailor everything you want.

(I tend to be an MS apologist, but this is one point where they really aggravate me.)

Ah yes, the ugly redheaded stepchild...

[WebCowboy]

...that is Millenium Edition!

I followed the link and was amused by the "don't miss" section at the bottom. ALL the links are things like "get Windows XP now" and "the benefits of XP" and "see the great reviews of XP here!".

There is also a link on that page to the amusing Windows ME support page there. The TOP article in the support archive? "How to UNinstall Windows ME"! Apparently the removal of WinME is a commonly suggested remedy by Microsoft to fix a PC that won't boot properly.

I'd have to say that that is one point where I actually agree strongly with Microsoft!