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From Your PC to Reality in 3 Easy Steps
aelbric writes "PC Magazine is running an on some entrepreneurial businesses that are taking an interesting approach to prototyping and one-off manufacturing. Apparently, you can send in schematics for circuit boards to Pad2Pad, where they will quote, build and ship you a part based on your exact specifications. There is also reference to eMachineShop, for those of you more mechanically inclined, for building some home projects.
Design the part on your PC, send it to the shop electronically, recieve custom built component(s). "
Get a clue, editors.
that's difficult (at least for electronics), it's the realisation. If I have a spartan-3 FPGA in an FG456 package, I need it professionally soldered onto the board - finding that facility for small runs (ie: 1 :-) at reasonable rates is a far harder proposition than firing up Eagle and creating a design.
I know pad2pad will assemble some of the more commonplace components, but I can't see them running to large-sized chips, and anything up to a QFP100, I can do myself anyway...
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
I was thinking it was going to be something like this:
1. Turn off PC
2. Climb stairs out of basement
3. Go out into sunlight
Blaze a trail to the New World
Or, if you're so inclined to design your own printed circuit board (PCB), Express PCB offers a reasonably priced service.
Man, there have been a number of times that I've been trying to build something, and ended up with the hacked HomeDepot route.
It involves going to said Ultra Store, browse through their crappy selection (3 items, but 200 of each) and then beating the snot out of it back at your house to try and make it do what you want.
I really hope that this technology stays in the hands of people who love to build and tinker, and doesn't just end up the "Next big thing" for some retail chain. I have a feeling it would wipe out the variabilty like it has in everything else they touch.
I hope that eMachinesShop works better than most eMachines or else they're in for a tough time.
Kewl! Now I can get the components made for that Killotron 5000 I've been working on!
Seriously, I think fab services like this could be a great boon, but how do you keep some group with nefarious intent from getting WMD components fabbed this way. If the pieces were submitted by multiple customers, it would be difficult to see that someone was trying to build something destructive.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
I'd imagine they'll tell you if they can't manufacture it. Now, whether or not it does what you want is a good question... ;)
:P
I'm more interested in the eMachines shop. Pricing is expensive for small runs, but not unreasonable at all for larger runs. Of course, the software is windows-only....
Windmills do not work that way!
I am in the prototyping industry and there is some amazing stuff coming.
Shameless plug
www.protocallonline.com
With freeware programs like Eagle available and really cheap circuit board manufacturing options, there's no reason to get locked into a service like Pad2Pad.
Check out my Digital Design & Construction Wiki for lots of resources on do-it-yourself electronics design.
Wow! And here I was sending out board designs for computer controlled lighting systems and getting back automatic espresso machine boards. No wonder they don't fit the slots and plugs in our cases.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Does this mean i can theoretically have a mod chip built? curious what other implications could be considered such as building copycats of other stuff. what is the legallity of this?
At work, we use www.protoexpress.com. They're similar to pad2pad for what we use them for, 'no-touch' custom circuits. No-touch means they don't do any verification of the board, and is what lets you get your own board quickly and inexpensively. We've had them do some pretty complex stuff without any problems. Their turn-around times are also very good (generally less than one week), and they are affordable and don't have any problems with small runs -- we often do only 2 prints of a new design.
Of course, a significant portion of the time involved in this is in populating the board. Soldering 2,000 points is never any fun.
----------------------
Freedom or Evil: Freevil.net
G. W. Bush says, "You decide!"
It doesn't look like they offer testing services. Their software will catch errors such as overlapping traces, etc., though.
There is absolutely no way for them to check your design to make sure it works, however. Unless you sit there and explain every detail to them, in which case they can still only moderately check certain aspects. There are just way too many different things involved in the design process for them to check every design. It would be like handing a company millions of lines of source code and telling them to check if it works, without running it first.
Why would they?
Does Kinkos proofread your brochures, or ask if your graphic designer is colorblind?
eMachineShop's little design utility WILL tell you if your part can be manufactured. But if you design it wrong and it doesn't work/fit it's your problem. I'd imagine it's the same policy with the circuit boards.
=Smidge=
1. Does anyone know a good book to start with for learning electronics with hands on projects? I had a class in college but it seems like eons ago,
2. Why does slashdot refuse to link other PCMag authors such as Dvorak when he writes interesting stories? He just wrote a piece about bias against linux, I figured slashdot would be all over that, and then one on microsoft shutting down after which microsoft announced their stock buyback plan.
PC Magazine is running an on some entrepreneurial businesses that are taking an interesting approach...
And someone calls these people _Editors_ ???
sad robot making broken music
Now I get to have my very own Kelly LeBrock!
Now all I need is a bra to wear on my head.
Dealing with antique vehicles, there have been several times where a broken part was no longer available (or more the value of the vehicle if very rare), so many of these repairs were bastardized parts from other things, a quick weld job, or duct-tape. There are some shops that will attempt to make the part, but they rarely had CAD programs. Now, measure and/or scan the part in, develop the CAD blueprints and voila, new part!!
It is cheaper for you to create the CAD specs and hand them off, and eMachine uses their CMC machines to cut the parts straight from the CAD specs - so it is almost 100% material expense for them (just some spec imports, press play, and inspect after completion).
There could be some issues around patent infringements for existing parts, and I did not read their entire site but there could be some issues around patent ownership of the new part (if a new design).
Overall I day this is a pretty good thing for hobbyists and small-time prototypers. No added expenses for the parts machines.
I've used ExpressPCB for a lot of mini projects in the past. The rates are pretty good if you know how to maximize your layout properly, and you can get multiple boards out of 1 panel (ie: 5 silkscreened/soldermasked panels of 21sqin/ea are about $250, ($50/ea). But, if you can get 5 boards out of 1 panel (and you need 25 boards, give or take) then your per-board price is effectively $10/ea, which is reasonable for a small, custom job). The quality of the ExpressPCB boards has always been excellent.
.1uF caps?? WTF??), but the prices for boards with a few components soldered on is pretty reasonable (again, if you are ordering in a manner that spreads your cost over 25 or 30+ boards).
I converted one of my projects to pad2pad just last night. Their component selection is horribly small right now (no
FrontPanelExpress is another good option for custom metal panels.
-This sig intentionally left blank
...back in community college but it didn't work out. Turns out customers didn't accept our custom-wired Radio Shack 150-in-1 electronics kits. I guess we were just too far ahead of our time for market acceptance.
I thought this was an article about the new wave in pr0n. I'm so disappointed now.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
It's very interesting to see a website like eMachineShop (I've known about it for a little while already). A lot of actual machine shops that use CNC machinery are run by 40+ y/o gentlemen who are sort of "stuck in the past" (no offence to anyone) with regards to their equipment.
So when you have websites such as eMachineShop you're providing competition to these guys who have no web presence and no facility to even take such orders.
*plug*
On another note, I'm working on something similar but in a slightly different manner. Machine shops themselves would send in a CAD file, and then we would quote them on a cycle time based on our machinery that they could purchase (since I work for a CNC Machine Distributor, who is also ironically suffering from a DOS attack).
*/plug*
When you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness. So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
Do it at night, when there's no sunlight --it makes the transition much easier.
And when you hear birds chirping, find cover -- it's a sign that the sun's going to come back up.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
...but this site also empowers the user. I go to a twice a year german board game convention. I am not very good at the games I play so I decided I needed a T-Shirt to help folks figure out ahead of time that I am the "weak" player.
I was looking for a place to make the T-Shirt when I came across http://www.zazzle.com/. What a great site!
If you want you can see the shirt I made.
BTW, I do not work for, nor am I affiliated with Zazzle.com (other than the T-shirt I made).
"A sample size of one is really just statistical masturbation."
I had to make several PCBs for a senior design project and I used 4pbc.com which was quick and cheap. They do special student rates and their regular prices are low too. Of course cost goes up exponentiall to the number of layers you want.
looks like you are off-topic. Would you like an autoban?
I'm a subscriber. I agree with what you are saying.
I've paid for page views, not 503 errors.
I don't understand what's up with this crap. Maybe someone at VA will give a crap if we gripe enough.
Yes, if fed up enough, I can go else where. But dang it, they've already got my money. How do I get it back?
Sent from your iPad.
Home... home is where you wear your hat... I feel so breakup, I wanna go home. Barney, I'm going home... with my overthruster. History is-a made at night. Character is what you are in the dark.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
but unfortunately a little too expensive for my taste right now. Yes, I could design my own motherboard, but I'd pay more for the proto-fab than I would had just went out and bought one retail.
Price aside, this is an electronics hobbyist's dream. After the 80's, it became increasingly more difficult for the electronics enthusiast to build hardware of moderate complexity - soldering SMT components to a board is _NOT_ feasible for the average hobbyist. And I won't miss messing around with touching up broken traces and etchant (permanent marker isn't as necessarily permanent when etchant is involved...)
The day I can get a 20cm by 20cm prefabbed for about $10, I'll be sold. With all the threats of DRM this and Secure Hardware(TM) that, it won't be long before one might have to build their own PC if they still want to listen to MP3's....
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
From your PC to reality in 3 easy steps :
1. Install Microsoft Windows(R) Me.
2. ???
3. destroy your computer
Not a representative of the company, just a really satisified customer.
It would be like handing a company millions of lines of source code and telling them to check if it works, without running it first. .. or even knowing what it's supposed to do.
I wonder how accessable these guys are to the hobbyist, like myself. I've acid-etched lots of neat-o circuits, but you can only do so much with such techniques. I've had plenty of ideas/designs that I just couldn't feasibly manufacture.
Also, I've built stuff that may even have a very slight commercial value to myself, but not enough to warrant a multi-million dollar investment - but stuff maybe a handful of other geeks would like. Ie; a USAJAP conversion "module" for a TG16 (not terribly complicated, just reverses the bit order on the data bus) It'd be nice to be able to order a few dozen PCBs, assemble my gizmos, sell em over the web for pocket change.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
You hit the nail right on the head. These kinds of services are the Kinkos of electrical/mechanical fabrication.
A full service PCB fab house, like a full service printing shop, looks over your design to make sure it makes sense and nothing will get lost in the tranfer from design to implementation.
Customers are never happy when they spend $5k and what they get back there's a completely bonehead error- even if it is their own fault! From what I see, Kinkos and PCBExpress specialize in orders under $1k.
Just when I need to order a couple of parts for my small business.
It's either going to take them a week to get their website back up, or lead times are going to increase by months as everyone orders their own unique casemods.
Anyone know of anything like emachineshop in the UK or mainland Europe?
There are good electronic design automation tools today that will tell you if your design will work. They have simulators; try before you build. That full toolset is about $10,000. If you're designing anything serious, it's worth it.
There are free tools, like Berkeley Spice, but it's a decade out of date. Free software hasn't kept up in this area.
...wait, did I say that out loud? I meant overclocked LAN server, yeah, that's the ticket.
- high cost of small-volume orders
- finding and purchasing components in resonable volumes
- testing the boards to verify that the mfg process holds up to your needs (maybe not a problem for amateurs but small traces can be a problem)
So, aside from their software, did I just miss the point?Obligatory link to the previous slashdot post about the same article, five days ago.
Wow? There are bunch of contract manufacturers that do rapid turnaround. Browse through and of the trade rags, and you will find some. I also don't see the point of the ``special'' software. File formats for netlists and layout are standard, and just about all of the CAD tools can generate files in just about all of the formats.
(S(SKK)(SKK))(S(SKK)(SKK))
I don't know, but this story may be a plug by Mr Taco for the businesses mentioned....
For those who are electronically inclined, i.e. those who know enough to design circuit boards, this is old news. There are zillions of places that does small production runs and all they need is your PCB file and credit card number. For fabrication, this is nothing new, not every engineer (even professional practices) have CNC machineries on standby. They rely on machine shops, what is new here, is their web presence and the fact that you guys have just figured out that these businesses exist.
As for testing, its the responsibility of the designer. Sometimes you shops that offers pad testing but thats mega-expensive especially when you are on a small run and need to do a proof of concept cheaply. So from time to time you get a dud board, its frustrating but that's life.
.
sig's are for weenies
Except you used to have to call someone on the phone to talk about specifications and to get pricing. Regardless you have long been able to send out a file and get back a part based on it. CAD/CAM has been making this possible for complex parts for a long time, and most companies which make PC boards will accept a HPGL plot out of orcad or what have you for your PC board.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Off to RTFA...
Paul Lenhart writes words!
There is a large Cosmac Elf Community that would die for this... although most of the fun is finding the original parts and building the computer yourself.
-m
#
# Modus Ponens
#
Wow, Micro Logic sure did get a good deal on /. /.
Two websites advertised twice within a week.
Can I advertise my business free too or do you have to know someone at
For quick-turn plastic models from my 3D CAD drawings, I've used XPress3D. They broker the services of numerous prototyping houses, and their website is drop-dead simple to use. Just upload your file, and almost instantly you will see a rotating animation of your creation and quotes from several of their suppliers. Select the prototyping method and supplier you want to use, enter your credit card info, and in a couple days you have your prototype. It's the slickest, most well-thought-out web service I've seen in a long time.
This is nothing new... Hell you can even build your own dupe on Slashdot!
by the way, I think that article about bias against linux he was talking about is this one.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Sweet. With eMachineShop now I can build my own custom parts for my dream chopper just like Vinnie does with the Waterjet thing on American Chopper. Darn. I forgot. I'm an idiot around automotives.
----
Spam subject of the moment: Offshore account secrets -nashville disrupt
I guess you stopped paying judging by the lack of asterik by your name.
You can tick a "no subscriber bonus" box to suppress it.
Hardware hacking is kind of dead. The way to go now is to buy an FPGA on a PCI card and design the logic that you want in Verilog or VHDL and download it onto the card. You can breadboard 50K-500K gates on a reuseable card for $300 or so. Its a lot faster than soldering. Google for words: rapid prototyping pci
You are able to turn off the asterisk if you want.
Come, children! Our -1, Offtopic moderation awaits!
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
I read the article and it talked about not soldering exotic chips leaving you to do the surface mount soldering. I have some super tiny chips, being an amateur, the serious question is:
How do you Solder Surface Mount Chips?
But hey. It takes 3 downmods within 24 hours to autban you for 72 hours IIRC.
Here is happy fun clicky link to original post griping about the dupes and the 500/503 errors.
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
Their software may be Windows only but you can create the design in another package and export it to a DXF file that they can import.
What they really need to support is STEP (ISO 10303), an open format for CAD model exchange rather than the proprietary DXF format.
I refuse to participate in any three-step process unless the second step is "??????" and the third step is "Profit!"
If you're a student, try Advanced Circuits next time you need a board fabbed. They do small runs (can order 1 or 2 boards - don't need to order in the 10's or 100's) at reasonable prices. Their boards are high quality - you don't just get copper on fr4, you also get a solder mask and silkscreen. Give them a try.
oh yeah, get a (girl|boy)friend.
TODO: 753) write sig.
i looked at the emachineshop and their software looks to be
just for simple protrusions of dxfs
i have used this company listed below in the past with very successfull results
you can design a cast part in whatever software
you are proficient in and then e-mail them an
exported stl file for quote. They will also
machine it to a blueprint and send the whole
thing to you in about 1 1/2 weeks...
ati
the only problem is the process can only print out tool steel and not aluminum yet.
but i am still hoping...
but you can always just get a part machined out
of aluminum block from a solid model
My all-time favorite quick-turn PCB prototyping house is AP Circuits in Calgary. Their P1 service is very inexpensive and fast (2-day turn with overnight shipping). You don't get soldermask or silkscreen with that, but for proof-of-concept -- even with surface mount parts -- you don't need it. What really sets them apart from other proto houses is their realistic policy regarding multiple designs or multiple boards on one panel (hint: they don't have one). They understand that what they're selling is a commodity service, i.e. drilling and etching -- not circuit boards. Try combining multiple boards or multiple designs in a single job at most other proto houses, and their Panelization Police will smack you down for it, and force you to pay extra.
Another thing is that even if i did stop reading Taco's stories, i would still be stuck with all those other "editors" who apparently have still not quite grasped the idea of spellchecking.
Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
I prefer to fire up Eagle's Cadsoft (under Linux!) and generate my own gerber and excellon files. I can then send these files to ANY board house I choose.
When creating 2 layer boards and when I don't need super fine spacing I use Olimex (the lowest cost 2 layer with silk screen and solder mask pcb house I have EVER seen!). When I need 4 more or layers I go with the more expensive PCB Express.
Although I think emachine shop sounds great, you can get much cheaper smaller runs of aluminum panels from Front Panel Express. Their prices are very low and their quality is amazing!
- Rod
Where loved ones are remembered: Memoriam.org
Pad2Pad is relatively expensive as board fabs go. barebonespcb.com is much cheaper. It's really cool to have a real fabricated board though. Much better than breadboarding, and if you plan on keeping the circuit can be cheaper as breadboard run >$20.
I too am a subscriber, but like many of the people in my friends circle (who are also subscribers) basically use the front page to get to the journals and other misc stories.
Yes, there are a lot of us who pine for the days of the slashdot that was (yes, I have a goddamned low UID because I read slashdot when EVERYONE was anonymous).
I've met taco in person, and whereas he is technical and artistic, he's not much of a people person. Slashdot has proven this time and time again.
Clinton made me a Republican. Bush made me a Libertarian. Trump is making me question reality.
the next new economic model? Customized mass production is supposed to move us beyond just cranking out the same thing for everyone. Nike has its customized shoe option where you can design your shoes on line and have them within a months.
> 1. Does anyone know a good book to start with for learning electronics with hands on projects? I had a class in college but it seems like eons ago,
If you don't mind reading online literature, check out epanorama's links for the basics. It's no book, but it's a place to get started. Google around for beginner's electronic projects. Check out discovercircuits also.
Shameless plug here for Advanced Circuits. These guys are awesome, they have a student deal ($33 per board in single quantity), and they do good work.
http://www.4pcb.com/
This story has already been posted here
Here, and in the comments following the original post about eMachineShop (5 days ago), everyone is talking about Pad2Pad and hardly even mentioning eMachineShop. And the truth is that eMachineShop marks a huge, huge milestone in our history. Ok, that's just my opinion, but think about it for a second. You can draw up a three dimensional object, click a few buttons, and have that object delivered to your doorstep within two weeks! I know what the cynics are saying... "You could already do that" and "It's too expensive" and "You can't build ridiculously complex shapes" and whatever else... but forget about all that obligatory naysayer BS for a moment.
You can download their software, for free. You draw up your part, and immediately get a price quote. Then you modify your design, experiment with different materials and different machines, and get as many price quotes as you like, until you find the one that you can afford. Then you click the "buy" button and you get the part delivered right to your doorstep.
Yes, of course there's no really new technology involved here, but there really is genius in this business model. This idea has put more power in my hands (the average home PC user) than anything I've seen in a long time. What were my options before? Buy a CNC machine and rent space in a warehouse? Draw my design in a CAD app and then send it to a B&M machine shop a dozen times until it finally meets their design rules, only to find out that it's too expensive?
And, finally, and most importantly, just think for a minute about what this could mean in the very near future. What if this idea catches on, and suddenly there are websites that do the same thing as eMachineShop, only with fabric? Or clothing? Or more sophisticated stuff, like motors and gears and robotics?
This really could mark the beginning of a new era. Imagine a world where people use P2P programs to share designs for CARS, rather than Eminem albums. Hey, you got that new Ferrari? I'll trade you this custom convertible that some guy designed and posted to Usenet. What's happening is that the advancing technology of the internet is making all forms of information accessible to everyone. 3D objects are nothing more than information, just like music, movies, pictures, etc... Some day piracy of music and movies will be the least of the **AA's worries. Maybe AAA will be the next "Association of America" to try to stop P2P.
actually no, I'm still a subscriber. Guess this is another thing that got broken:
You have paid for a total of 4000 pages and so far 2597 have been used up (10 today). Thank you for supporting Slashdot! We appreciate your contribution very much.
(We use Greenwich Mean Time to decide where "today" begins and ends. Your day may vary.)
We give you some control over deciding where to suppress ads. New subscribers default to suppressing ads everywhere except on comments pages. For accounting purposes, we'd appreciate if you had at least one type of ad being suppressed.
Sent from your iPad.
Gripe enough? You're losing it, Em. I thought you were a manager for a large company? You should know that businesses change when it's financially necessary. If there's no financial penalty for the current course of action, why would they change?
<sig>Guvf vf abg n frperg zrffntr
You're right. I don't think it's making it past this sandbox though.
:)
I really would like to know how I can get my money back for "page views" I haven't taken yet.
Wow, we are sooooo off-topic
Sent from your iPad.
Now of course when designing your pcb you need a wide range of useful tools.
:)
Cadius Tools
Yes I do work for them
By Horowitz ans Hill is a very nice and complete book about analog and digital electronics
Z
Shut your mouth, take your soma, and click through some fucking ads, you deadbeat. Nobody at VA, and nobody on the /. crew gives a shit about anyone or anything except ad hits. Witness Taco's flippant 'ohwellweeventuallyfigureditout' journal on the recent 503 crap. Why no meta stories on Slashdot? It's not because 'they aren't appropriate', it's because Malda and the rest would be pilloried by the readership.
Because, after all, the readers who aren't posters are 95% of the page hits or some such nonsense. Well, how many of those people would be hitting pages if it weren't for the Funny, Insightful, Interesting, Informative, Troll, Flamebait to be found?
Are the 503's and stupid modbans the only way to combat the GNAA and others? Hardly. But nobody gives a fuck. Nobody.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
just a thought...
Am I the only one who thought this was about how to "cure" people from being at the computer all day long?
meh
I worked for small circuit board company right out of college (Circuit Center, Inc.). They made prototype PCB/PWB with really fast turn-arounds. But, the price killed the company. Most boards were done in 8-10 days. The fastest were 24 hours. They just couldn't keep up with the competition though. The profit margin on circuit boards is not as high as you might think. Especially once you consider machinery, engineering , and sales staffs.
I find it odd that the URL is cadsoftusa.com, but the page is in German. Is the software also in German? If it's English, I'll give it a shot.
No weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men.-Ronald Reagan
I come to slashdot too often, before I'd hear all kinds of complaints about dupes but I'd never notice it. Oh but now I notice every single one... I suppose I just come here too often. Thank you slashdot for filling up those precious minutes I could be working...
A friend of mine works for Quickparts.com, a company that will produce prototypes based on CAD drawings that you submit over the internet. It's based in NE Atlanta, GA, and is focused on industrial parts. They will fill orders on a very short term basis for people who don't have enough inventory or want to do a test production run. Pretty nifty stuff.
~ now you know
Go ahead... mod me down to hell and back. I'm already banned from posting with Excellent karma and no recent downmods to speak of. As you can see, it hurts me a great deal.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
I wonder if they could save even more by replacing the editors (well, everyone but Taco) with a Perl script. If anything, it would make things better.
Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
The new instant pricing is the real inovation here as the parent pointed out. They've essentially put an engineer in a box for your personal use.
If there's no financial penalty for the current course of action, why would they change
I'm thinking about that saying, "The squeaking wheel gets the grease". Maybe if we complain enough, they will slow down on new development and actually fix all the bugs on the current system, and, maybe if we gripe enough, they'll set up a test environment and do things decently and in order.
Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
Link for your convenience.
I'd say it's inappropriate to have people (paying subscribers, even) have their entire subnet get knocked off Slashdot, just because of three downmods in 24 hours. (Then have an impertinent "meh, wait out the ban period" as the response.)
Hmm...kinda like shooting mosquitos with bazookas.
...
Just a little humor to save the day!
Cheers,
Ethelred (a fellow subscriber)
Everyone wants to be Ethelred. Even I want to be Ethelred.
Yea, we're totally off-topic. Like, the topic is out over there across the atlantic and we're sitting here in Cali.
No refunds. You post off-topic in thread... no slashdot for you, come back, 72 hours.
We're next to totally invisible now man. Maybe we should try to HOF this story?
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
I was expecting an article about real-life stories of how people are merging the two services to deliver custom electronics hardware to others. That would have been really great to read up on how entrepreneurs really are building viable businesses. Instead, it's just about how the writer tried out a couple of random parts, and that's it.
Now the cynic in me says that this is a rewritten duplicate article from a paid advertiser... not even the PC Magazine reference changed at all. Perhaps the story didn't do so well since it was posted on a Friday evening, so they try again during the middle of the week. Also, normally mentions of duplicates are modded up as informative but every single instance here has been modded down into oblivion. Sort of suspicious if you ask me. We'll see if this post gets mod-bombed down.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
Why no meta stories on Slashdot?
Yeah, i've always wondered about this... is it because taco and crew are just that terrified? I mean... with all this talk of open source and YRO and on and on and on... why not turn that spotlight around on themselves?
Are they that affraid of what they may learn? That there are legitimate grievances here with users?
Why the fear of an open and transparent exchange of those grievances? Insecurity on the part of Taco and crew? I think so.
Yes moderators... this is way the fuck offtopic. But that doesn't mean these things shouldn't be said... heh, and in the context of this thread... it *is* on topic.
sad robot making broken music
You do realize, I assume, that none of us will ever see mod points again? Of course... some of use have been banned from mod and metamod for months... so it's not a big deal.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Okay. But if you're trying to have an effect on a business, "squeaking" means "having (potential?) financial consequences," not merely complaining.
<sig>Guvf vf abg n frperg zrffntr
Those 503 errors happened BECAUSE someone tried to edit grammar in a story, and slaschode can't handle being written to and read at the same time.
So they fixed the problem by not editing.
Makes sense to me.
And no one calls them editors. I mean, they can call themselves editors all they want... they can also call themselves the Kings of Spanish-Grambula, but that doesn't make it so.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Bah. the original Humbug.
true.
But oh well.
If nothing else, maybe the editors will pause and realize that:
1) banning entire subnets to get rid of problem posters deprives legitimate PAYING customers at the same time. It's a YRO issue that they are ignoring. Do you have the right to get what you pay for? Yes.
2) I seriously think no one here would have a problem if the coders would merely state "Hey, it's time for a code push, we are pretty sure it's solid, but if something breaks, email us." We don't get that. Again, as someone who has paid money for this site, this is WRONG. Imagine if MS or some other website did something like this? Slashdot would be all over it. But if it occurs on their own turf, it's ignored, or flippantly remarked about in the creator's journal. Whatever.
3) Moderation is BROKEN. BADLY.
4) Duplicate stories. I don't expect the slashdot team to catch every article, I don't. But it does get ridiculous some times.
The bottom line is this:
a lot of us PAY for the content here. Granted, you can't have everything, but our voices are NOT EVEN BEING HEARD. We are after thoughts. I can't post what I think to Taco's Journal because I'm not his "friend". If you email him, you often get either ignored completely or treated like you don't matter.
This site started out in his dorm room. It's not a dorm room job anymore. Things are different in the real world. Perhaps they'll learn someday.
Sent from your iPad.
No, the three steps are clearly:
1. Turn off PC
2. ???
3. Profit!
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
"squeaking" means "having (potential?) financial consequences,"
We are eating up (Miniscule?) bandwidth and storage space, plus using electricity making the DB do all of these queries. If enough people chipped in, it would become a noticable effect.
Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
But sometimes the squeaky wheel gets a smack with a ball-peen hammer, which seems to be the case around these parts.
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
I think what we are seeing is the rise of the cottage industry (discussed here, here, & here as examples) brought up by Alvin Toffler in The Third Wave .
Yeah, acid-etching is great for simple designs, but anything requiring really small traces is out of the question. Double-sided boards and SMDs can be a bit of a trick, too, especially when you do both double-sided and surface mount.
There are tons of great, cheap PCB manufacturers out there, though. This Pad2Pad service is really only good (IMHO) if you have a lot (i.e. hundreds or thousands) of boards being made, and you can get them to assemble the majority of each board.
Olimex is a decent place to order from. 4PCB is also good, even more so if you're a student.
Also, if the board is small, you can possibly panel it to save some money (depends on how many you're making, etc.).
Will I have to strap a bra around my head?
before posting dupe articles..........
http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
Maybe back in 1970 people were designing board etch (scaled up 10 times or so) layouts by placing self-adhesive red transparent tape (like pinstriping tape) onto clear plastic sheets, and then projecting this master onto sensitized copper-clad boards.
Old boards that have curved lines for the traces are layed out this way. CAD boards have straight lines and 90 or 45 degree angles in the traces.
As far as mechanical parts go, back in 1985 you could take a 3d wireframe of your mechanical part, send the IGES file to the vendor, and they would use
SMP - 81 , which dates back to 1979 (for sheetmetal)
or
Mastercam (for machined parts)
This article is just blatant fluff advertising for the products reviewed, as well as another example of "journalists" having no idea about the timeline or of similar products which have existed for years.
It's really amazing that "journalists" get paid: I am probably wrong just as often, but I post for free.
Hey, maybe I could get a side job at the NYT...
Nah, they don't care. There have been people leaving, bitching, moaning, claiming to leave, trolling, etc. etc. for what seems like forever. Not a bit of it has changed one thing.
Quite simply, if you have a problem with Slashdot, you're not going to be able to change it. Deal with it, or leave.
Like the slashdot blackout. Didn't work. There are plenty of people willing to post and besides that most people according to Taco don't even read the comments anyway.
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
And some of us have opted out of this fucked up system and unchecked the "willing to moderate" box. It's my way of saying, "I won your silly little karma game, boys. I don't have to play any more."
....Bethanie....
Hello. I am a subscriber, and as I would say to my 3.5-year-old: These 500 errors are unacceptable. Changes should be tested BEFORE they're activated. Unless you want to be completely amateur about it, that is....
gets a smack with a ball-peen hammer,
Is that CmdrTaco's "power"? That explains why he keeps it a secret. Even a framing hammer is more intimidating than a ball-peen. Possible a sledge, if he's into the whole "intimidation by display of strength" thing.
Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
I decided I was unwilling to moderate following the post of death, and FK being told he had no life. Mod points are bullshit when an editor can mass mod someone/something, just because he doesn't like what has been said.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
1) Design custom chip ...
2)
3) Profit!
Just came from the JEs...
Did anybody mention the 500/503 errors lately? Well just in case it has been a while.... um there were these 501/503 errors the other day and they... um... were there and then gone.
jason
I'm pretty damn sick of these 503 errors though. At this rate, any chance they may have one day had that I'd ever become a subscriber (since I'm a regular "contributor to content" here, I do feel some obligation sometimes) will evaporate in about, oh, 30 more seconds.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
You were right. The sqeaky weasel gets greased.
"Giving money and power to governments is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." - P.J. O'Rourke
I checked off "unwilling" some time ago as well, but I was banned from M and M2 before that (no idea why..).
Not only is this offtopic, it is also redundant. However, since we're airing grievances, maybe it will help bash the point into their heads that we're more concerned about site usability and a fair stance on moderation and posting than on some stupid war between the little pissants in the gnaa and /.'s crew.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
I checked off "unwilling" some time ago as well, but I was banned from M and M2 before that (no idea why..).
Not only is this offtopic, it is also redundant. However, since we're airing grievances, maybe it will help bash the point into their heads that we're more concerned about site usability and a fair stance on moderation and posting than on some stupid war between the little pissants in the gnaa and /.'s crew.
Oh, and... lest we forget:
This exact comment has already been posted. Try to be more original...
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
You mean like when we submitted an order for a few hundred bare PCBs to our PCB shop and got them a few days later... and everything was upside down? The outfit I worked for didn't have tools that output Gerber, so we used to send 1:1 films. Some idiot tech managed to put the solder & component side layers upside down on their camera and manually panelize the board (somehow not noticing that the text was backward) and then when we called to complain, asked if we couldn't just put the parts on the underside instead.
And yes, my boss continued to use that place cause they were cheap.
Yes, they did go out of business in short order.
Yes, so did we
Blackhole ads.osdn.com in your hosts file. When I'm banned from posting for no reason that I can find, I point the ads server to 127.0.0.1 . Then, when I post via proxy, I see the ad that pops up when I post, switch the proxy off, and I no longer see ads. When I notice the ban is lifted, I comment out the blackhole line in my hosts file and I see ads again (until the block comes back on..).
That way, they get an ad view when I circumvent the block, but while I'm blocked for no reason, they get nothing.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
"He would machine custom parts for his motorcycle . . . Before they closed the doors, he sand blasted then powder coated dozens of various parts for his bike. It would have cost a FORTUNE to do all that without the benefit of his employer."
;-)
And they went out of business? I'm shocked!
IIRC, it's because Taco views meta-stories as 'arrogant'.
Ummm... Yeah. That would be his *first* sign of arrogance.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
this topic is EXACTLY the same as a topic posted around a week ago, in fact, the same wording, hell, I still have the links in history.
unless it got accidently accepted twice, or taco wanted to put a fancy new title on it, I think someone didnt read back at older articles.
Plug...
http://www.cafepress.com/
Does the same thing with mugs, hats, t-shirts, underwear. You send them artwork, they set it up and print it. The extra trick there is that they provide all the retail / payment services.
I found it after linking from http://www.rockpapersaddam.com/
-tooley-
I thought that a thorough greasing was what made the weasel squeak in the first place.
Oh, no... dammit. That's what makes the weasel SPIT.
I really gotta get those straightened out in my head.
....Bethanie....
Soldering SMTs isn't that difficult...in some ways, it's actually a little bit faster, as you don't have to bend & trim component leads, keep flipping the board over, etc. All you need is a really fine-tipped iron (something like this), some flux, some fine solder, some tweezers, and a somewhat steady hand. A good bit of the time, you don't even really need to add solder...flux the pads, place the part, and hold it down with the tweezers while you touch the iron tip to a couple of leads. Once it's tacked down, you can start hitting each lead one-by-one for a couple seconds each or so to secure it to the board. Between the pad and the component lead, there's often enough solder to hold the component securely without adding more. Use a spray defluxer to clean up the board and you're done.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
"Other day" my ass, they were just yesterday.
If paying customers are this pissed off, maybe people should consider sending an email to someone (dunno who) at VA, cc'ed to jamie, timothy and whatever other semi-reasonable editors that their may or may not be?
I'm not saying anything new, but I wish Taco and VA all the success in the world, because if this show ever comes to an end and he is forced to play developer in the real world (where uptime matters), then he will find out PDQ what happens to coders who develop direct to Production and then shrug, "Par for the course, Chief!" when the prod systems go down in flames.
Yeah, right.
And someone calls these people _Editors_ ???
Yep; edit thread A down to -2; edit user B from "excellent" to "terrible" karma...etc, etc.
That's what killed me. I closed the door to the bathroom to keep the cats out, and used both an ammonia-based cleaner and bleach-based cleaner. The resultant cloud of poisonous gas soon overwhelmed me, killing me within minutes.
If I had only known, I'd be alive today. :(
3) Moderation is BROKEN. BADLY.
Yup, I'll agree there.
From what I've seen, it seems to me that the moderator pool is becoming a bit too shallow. Maybe a total reset is in order. I don't know.
SB
It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
have a goddamned low UID because I read slashdot when EVERYONE was anonymous
Damn right!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Currently Pad2Pad offers free design review of each order. If your design contains elements that can not be manufactured or if its quality can be improved, we will contact you before manufacturing is started. Normally Pad2Pad design engineers adjust the design and provide it to the customer for approval shortly after the order is received. Also you may request E-test of the boards for additional fee.
Heh heh.. welcome back to the fold...
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Pad2Pad offers free automatic panelization of the boards, which is one of the reasons for low prices it offers. So you do not need to think of panelization when designing a PCB. Additionally Pad2Pad gives automatic advice regarding price optimization, e.g. that you may order more boards for the same price.
Many Pad2Pad customers are hobbyists who are interested in small run production or prototypes, which Pad2Pad offers for a highly competitive cost. Non-professional users also appreciate free online, e-mail and phone customer support available from site and from the Pad2Pad application.
Currently Pad2Pad offers free design review of each order. If your design contains elements that can not be manufactured or if its quality can be improved, we will contact you before manufacturing is started. Normally Pad2Pad design engineers adjust the design and provide it to the customer for approval shortly after the order is received. Nevertheless, we will not start fabrication of edited design without customer approval.
touche'
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
I don't see why they couldn't implement some type of dupe checker. Something that compared the text and links, then showed the results that the editors could check. Very simple.
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A friend recommended that I not miss out on these discussions.
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