Slashdot Mirror
Ebay Buys Into Craiglist
unboring writes "The news out today morning is that eBay has bought a minority stake in Craigslist. Here's Craig's take on the whole issue. For those unaware of Craigslist, it was launched by Craig Newmark in 1995 in San Francisco, and is an online network of classified ads and forums aimed at people looking to find an apartment rental, meet friends or trade goods. For those unaware of eBay, get out from under that rock! Google news stories for your convenience here. So will Craigslist now become more corporate/evil? Personally, I've benefited a lot from Craigslist classifieds and I hope it doesn't lose its attitude."
The article title says "Craiglist", but it should be "Craigslist."
I've used the barter/trading section of craigslist before but was leery of trusting the people who I traded with.
Then again, craiglist works only when you trade in person unlike ebay.
And the listings are free...
I for one embrace our new corporate auctioneer overlords
I know a little sig that's just ten words long
I'm gonna have to check them out. Say, have any of you heard of this new interweb thing that's starting up? I hear that this company named America Inline might offer something like it.
is how craigslist is a virtual hook-up community, as well. If you want no strings attached sex and can host, you have a good chance of meeting someone to fuck in the major metro area of your choice.
Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
Breakfast served all day!
eBay is really trying to squeeze itself into every possible market it can, which deals with basically buying/selling.
It has also bought of India's largest trade portal baazee. Lets keep an eye on its tale of acquisitions in 04.
EBay bought 25% stake in Craigslist, as founder Craig commented in his blog. This is not your usual "community effort sold out to big corporation" story. It begins when craigslist first established as company, Craig made a gift of some equity to a guy who was working with him at the time. He reasons that the equity really had more symbolic than actual dollar value. Given the success of craigslist, this is probably self-deprecation. Indeed, this person latter left the company and decided to sold his stake to eBay. The irony is this person is going to make all the monetary gain while Craig would likely to shoulder all the criticism.
Being a for-profit company or owned by big corporation is not necessary a bad thing. People need to make a living and an office need money to run. Even slashdot.org a fervently independent outlet is now owned by VA Software. But craigslist has made a name of itself by strongly resist to commercialize. The web design is basic and text only, entirely free from advertisement. All services are free with the exception of job posting as its sole income. Had it decided to brought in venture capital, craigslist has every potential to be a contender to eBay, a 50 billion dollars corporate giant. But it choose to stay this way, running like a struggling non-profit, forgoing the dream of uncountable wealth.
While it might look a mistake now that he gave away equity to a person who later sell to big corporation and profited, I believe he acted in the interest of the organization at that time. He understand the website that bears his name is more than himself. By making some form of employee ownership he could make it a better and more accountable organization.
I can only hope the ownership change will strengthen craigslist's service without straying it from its mission. No matter what it is going to be, craigslist has already made its name as an antidote to the dot-com frenzy
(Comment replicated from my blog)
...putting craigslist up for bid on their website?
This issue is clearly at the top of my list where businesses begin to fail their customers, they lose that rough edge they had when they started out, that panache which got them noticed, their attention to fixing what was important and not wasting energy putting doilies on things, and lastly being accessible -- too damn many online companies have buried their customer service behind FAQ's and forms to the point you try to alert them to a problem and the square peg won't fit their round-hole request template and you never really know if anyone did receive that urgent missive, but you do get a form letter which seems completely out of context with your concern. In short, they become 'Sirius Cybernetics', a mindless bunch of jerks who should be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
I'm fairly pissed off with eBay, for their constant fscking around with user interfaces and services that don't need half the crap they put into it and it never really quite works as well as it used to, but it's full of cutesy sh!t pictures and things, oh, and the pages are really big now, lots of bloat in there. I hope Craig's doesn't fall under the heel of the eBay design wizards, but expect some day for 'Craig' to be dropped, to look more corporate.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
How much longer must we be hammered with the cliche, "get out from under that rock?"
If you don't know Doom, get out from under that rock! If you haven't heard of project X, get out from under that rock! If you haven't read articles about personality Y, get out from under that rock!
Get out from under that rock. The jaded journalist's quick cliche fix. Available at stores near you.
Could they want to redirect the bevy of free and cheap things listed on craigslist on a typical day to their site for auction? Or are they interested in getting into the online classifieds market in general?
According to cnet and lots of others:
"eBay has acquired a 25 percent stake in Craigslist, an online listing of classified ads and forums."
Sure 25 percent may be the minority, but there is nothing minor about it. When a company owns 25% of your company, you do half at least part of what they suggest you do.
JasonBlogs
The two markets are somewhat related. As Craig said in his blog, "Like craigslist, eBay is about helping folks get everyday stuff done."
We'll see how it turns out
The other day we read a story claiming that there's so much IPO interest for craigslist, and the response from Craig is that they're not interested. What interests me, however, is that the article claimed that there was so much money in Craigslist ($25 million or more!). While I'm extremely skeptical about such an estimate, I have no doubt that they're doing quite well.
I'm thinking that eBay was either thinking along those same lines or they were convinced by the article's claims.
Craigslist has its quirky charm, and it's free to use.
... is Pierre Omidyar in any way involved in eBay anymore? I notice that Craig thanks him in his announcement, and that seems odd. I thought Pierre had long since cut the cord and gone on to charitable stuff.
I certainly hope neither of those things will change.
It's always had a reputation for being a bit anti-corporate, so seeing a press release written in boilerplate corpspeak is more than a little appalling.
I also wonder about liability problems associated with the Erotic Services and Casual Encounters categories. That seems like the kind of thing a major corporation would be forced to neuter.
Still, it is a minority stake which I daresay gives them no rights at all. I wonder how much they paid for those no rights.
Oh
D
Living under the rock is cheap, healthy and cool ("cool" as in temperature). The only problem is sharing the space with reptiles, worms and lichen.
Sorry, what were we discussing?
my co-worker has used them on several occasions... he didn't really have too much luck with the personals but he managed to find people to jam with (he's a drummer).
my roommate has used it to buy a drumset, some keyboards, a Fender Rhodes, and some other misc instruments, then subsequently sell them back when he needed cash for more than he bought them for.
I, personally have only posted a single personal ad... got 2 responses. one from a guy asking if I got any responses (what a fag), and one from a girl complaining about the ad (what's wrong with "I'm a geeky bastard. I like art, computers and loud music. tattoos are cool."?
anyway, I haven't heard back from her...
btw, craigslist only works if you live in a metropolitan area (ie NYC, SF, etc). If you live in Humplick, KY, yer shit out of luck.
...spike
Ewwwwww, coconut...
Why is this moderated as troll? It's 100% correct. Oh, wait, I know -- Michael can't stand any criticism, even when it's correct.
They're a public company. They have to do this little thing called "due dilligence". It takes a while. I suspect the article may have arisen out rumors that some invertment banks were doing something involving Craigslist. People then apply their greedy imaginations.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Craigslist has been an invaluable resource for me. I've found apartments, sold my furniture when I had to move out of said apartments due to unemployment [one of which was directly across the street from the CL office] and 3 out of my 4 full-time jobs from there.
Craig's a great guy but, as you can probably tell from reading his comments on the issue he doesn't always think things through and has a tendency to wing it. My hope is that the free spirit of Craig and the, well, corporateness of eBay don't end up at odds. Most of you probably don't remember the whole craigslist/ListFoundation thing and I don't want another repeat of that.
I received an automated reply to my email sent to the only contact address I could find ... craiaglist no longers monitors this account ... no wonder uPay^h^h^h^hebay is interested.
If people behaved as most corporations do, people would get prison, not profits.
I'm missing craigslist being the way it was a few years ago. It's now full of shitheads with their "Free Ipod OMG!!!!" posts, the forums are full of trolls who are nowhere near as amusing as the ones here, people flagging legitimate shit all over the place. People skipping out on paying for ads by putting them in the wrong sections. You can't even get laid on the casual encounters board anymore... Basically, craigslist used to be a place on the internet that was unlike the internet at all, and this is one step closer to it going straight to hell. I know I sound like the typical "I used craigslist back when it was underground" kind of ass, but since all this fuss has been made about it it's gotten a whole lot less usable. I wouldn't mind if someone who could help filter their bullshit posts had a minority share, but we all know there's no way ebay will be doing that.
You used to have a really crappy sig, but then I stole it.
Personally, I've benefited a lot from Craigslist classifieds
Translates to:
I've hooked up with many gay lovers, unknown to my wife, through Craigslist classifieds.
for all the 420 ads on craigslist?
It's not exactly very corporate. Or maybe it is.
Then you should post her photo and contact information for the rest of use to use.
Craigslist begins to suck.
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
I think this is a prime example of 'The Return of the Bubble'. Yahoo buying Outpost, Microsoft buying Lookout, EBay getting 25% of a 14-people, $25M/year business... where do yo uwant to go today? Your trading account site, I suggest.
Simpy
.. can come up with this crap I suppose.
Lists?? WTF - I expect Craig used the nice name for the site to get around a few laws on advertising dodgy things men get up to.
sells out, or in one, pimped
What was the winning bid?
I've used Craigslist to sell loads of stuff very successfully. I prefer it because it allows me to sell things locally eliminating the need for shipping, and concerns with payment. I've sold everything so far with a "look at it, test it, if you like it pay cash" model. No frills ad, FREE and annonomous email. Simple and effective. I trust cash. No disatisfied buyers yet.
I've avoided ebay because I prefer local not global. I may be the only one that does not trust a buyer I do not meet. Ebay is not free or allowing annonomous email.
My hope is Craig keeps it simple and free. I still have lots of stuff I plan to sell and do not need the hassles of ebay. I doubt ebay can effectily morph to meet local and face to face transactions. certainly not for free...
Well, most of the classified websites force users to register, flood their with ads and spam. Craigslist don't. When I first moved to NY, I was looking for a new place to live and thank to Craigslist, I got it. Did you know that besides Craigslist, no other websites out there offers you for free? all of them require fee just to see the contact info. A year later I found out that there are tons of other things that I can do, and then I got my first part-time job there in a language school. I hate Ebay, but can't blame Craigslist because I can see that Craigslist makes no/very little of money right now. Just hope that evil Ebay still keep at least some of good aspects of Craiglist.
I hope Craigslist maintains its grassroots look and feel (doubtful), as well as customers. You can find more free crap on Craigslist than anywhere else I've ever seen. It's become a new hobby for our fraternity; a guy upstairs managed to get a three piece connected leather lounger with built in telephone and massager for free. We tried to hook up the school bus one guy offered but it didn't go through. Fishtanks, computer stuff... you can find anything on there.
"Like craigslist, eBay is about helping folks get everyday stuff done, on a level playing field - they emphasize trustworthiness and reputation, and try really hard to listen to people. Basically, we're both about building community, and humanizing and democratizing the 'net, and there's gotta be more of that."
This is utter Bullshit. First off Craigslist has many sections a good portion of which are adult related (see the Erotic Section). In addition Craigslist also supports anonymous posting and emailing as well as a Rant and Rave section that is 100% uncensorsed by anyone other than the viewers of Craigslist. meaning that unless enough people "flag" a posting it can not be removed. Craigslist does not have intrusive ads, in fact most of their sections don't have any ads.
Ebay on the other hand and especially their payment company Paypal is totally for censuring adult related material and the language of it's auctions. Both things that Craigslist would never intrude upon. And I shouldn't even have to mention how many ads Ebay and Paypal have/use.
I for one hope someone else starts a Craigslist ripoff that continues a truly free and adless site.
Ave Molech Setting
I live under a rock for religous purposes, you insensitive clod!
Fark selling headlines?
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
Google should buy into craigslist! It would be the perfect way marrige. Both have the same philosophy of minimalist but useable interfaces. And googles search technologies and scaling knowledge should set a perfect course for craigslist.
Failing to learn from history dooms you to repeat it.
Really, is.
......
we will now soon see trolls and spammers and other assorted junk flooding craigslist, and what was once a happy? sensible? community posting junk, will be replaced by junk people posting all assorted junk being read by happy? sensible?
oh, what the heck !
I've come to really enjoy the personal ads on Craigslist. I love how you can reply to the ad itself not just to the person. It's like a slam where you get to go all smashmouth on idiots who haven't got a clue. The entertainment value alone is priceless.
My name is Carlos Montoya. You share files of my music. Prepare to die.
(grumbling as a long time EBay user)
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
When asked to comment on the purchase, Craig's only comment was "Fast Payment Welcome to Bid Anytime A+++++".
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
I love Craigslist. It has become a very central part of bay area life, especially within San Francisco itself. If you live in SF chances are you found your current residence from an ad listed on craigslist, whether it was for an empty apartment, or one of the bajillion ads for room mates. I know that's how I found my current studio ($820/mo on Market Street, woohoo!!) apartment.
I'm not sure what E-bay would want from it. I understand that they charge for job listings, everything else on the site is free. Plus they are expanding to other cities rapidly. I guess maybe they actually make enough from the job listing ads to support the entire site and the salary of the people who work on it.
The Generation
I'd say something witty here, but I'm not that bright.
The barter/trading sections of Craig's List have always kind of confused me. I thought humanity invented the currency system so that people could sell things that they made or no longer needed and then buy other people's things. Craig's List doesn't have a commission cut and there's no spread between buying and selling prices, so what's the point in trading?
Why not just sell what you have and then buy what you want? Why limit yourself to only doing business with people who have the opposite needs of yourself?
my blog
I listed an iPod on craigslist and ended up spending the night with the beauti.
I thought it was a fair swap, but she then she threw the $200 bucks on me while I was still sleeping.
And as the kicker she even bought me dinner.
Forget the casual encounters, the classifieds are where it all happens.
I like the rants people put in there. Like the 405 loogies. It's from the Seattle area, but applies anywhere http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/35334909. html
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
Here's a related article. Me thinks this is a good thing!!
Yeah, my initial thought was of disgust. However, it seems like Ebay won't really have any control over it.
Craigslist is a huge part of the SF culture though. I found my current apartment, two tables and two different chairs, sold two guitars and even found someone to sublet my apartment for the summer on it.
I used to work at the SOMA Trader Joe's and a guy came through my line wearing a Craigslist T-Shirt. He was actually working for Craigslist (imagine that), so I asked him a few questions, namely, how on earth did they make money, since they don't have ads on their site.
Apparently, they charge for job listings (at least in the San Francisco area). I also asked how much bandwidth they are using. The guy said the last time he checked, they were running at about 15 megabytes a second (which is astronomical, considering they are only running text pages basically).
Pretty friendly though. I passed by their office on the way to work everyday. It's located in the basement of an apartment 9th St between Judah and Irving.
This "gift of equity" is the fly in the ointment. My money is on a programming type, since Craig can barely tell 1 from 0 and his history of programming for such a low level software package as The Well is spotty at best. I don't think it was a gift at all. I think the 'secret' early employee was probably a person with real coding chops who decided he didn't want to work for free and said, 'Craig, my boy, I am not your av-er-age latter day hippy with a jones for community. I am a coder and if I'm not getting the ready cash, I WILL get some equity. "No equity and you're little list will not have software that can scale. So fork it over and I'll write the code. If not, just port picospan and hope for the best. Oh, and make it 25% minimum or this coder is out of here."
it is not the big sites that are growing.
it is the small ones, that are growing rapidly. Sites like
Craigslist
TradeRat
Blogger
Some of these, eg. Craigslist and TradeRat give you a sense of
community as you can sell to your neighbors and within your neighborhood.
($820/mo on Market Street, woohoo!!)
;-)
Wow! Do you need a roommate? Or a boyfriend?
Craig's list is a great site. I've used it quite a few times, and I've pitched in to point out some errors in the past, as well as problems with the database that the admins didn't notice. About 2 1/2 months ago, I was posting an ad, and came across the new (huge) screen where you have to agree to the terms of service before you can finish the posting process.
/.'ers have problems with some abusive terms of service for other services, since they've appeared right here on /.
/.'ers who've seen problems in the tos of Vonage and other voip providers, have posted, "I'm no terrorist, but..." or something along those lines. Same with Craig's list. I'm (and others) are posting products and/or services t
OK, fine. Terms of service. What else is new? Thanks to the size of the screen, I bothered to read it. Apparently, some
After reading the terms however, I got pretty hot, and posted my opinion of the terms, on the help board, since the opinion on the terms was specifically asked for
The corporation of Craig's list, now partly owned by Ebay, can using its own opinion, fine you for what they consider improper posts. How's that grab you?
Wanna fight it? Go to court in San Francisco.
I gave my opinion, and the post being 2 1/2 months ago, surmised that Craig's list was being positioned for sale. I was called a troll.
Anticipating some responses, just finding out that a partner is selling his share to Ebay? Maybe so. But it sounds like a little research went into finding out if it could be prevented, and it also sounds like (and is likely whether it sounds like it or not) there were some consultations and/or meetings with Ebay prior to and during the sale negotiations and legal work.
So was I hit with a bout of ESP? Or did Craig call me a troll when he knew something more? That's besides the point, anyway. The point is the terms allow the Craig's list corporation, now partly owned by Ebay, to fine you for what in their sole opinion, consider an improper post. Note that improper post isn't reserved just to abusive posts. Posting in more than one category (something real estate agents do all the time) in more than one area, depending on the circumstances, may be a fineable offense. There are other grey areas (how about real estate ads that take ten days to expire, yet some posters are deleting their ads every few days, and reposting them so they stay at the top nearly every day. Is that something you would consider abusive? Not when I pointed it out. What if it's done daily?) There are a lot of other grey examples, where, is it/isn't it, and according to the terms, there is no warning, bam, you're hit with a fine (regardless of whether the hammer has ever been lowered on anyone, the potential is there because it's in the terms), and if you have a problem with it, go fight it in San Francisco.
This is something you really don't think about, until you become aware of the potential problems. I'd think the guy reposting his ad every 1-2 days was abusing the system, but in the opinion of Craig's list, it wasn't. But after reading the tos, I started looking at a lot of other posts (read the part about posting in more than one area, and there are other examples), and started wondering, for other items I was listing, am I going to get fined over this post, or this one? Or this one? Then go look at some posts that are posted in more than one area, but seem perfectly legitimate. And they are still there, even though they are in technical violation of the tos.
Some of the
Hi,
I want to have some fun with 5 to 7 men in Walnut Creek on Sunday, between 10am and 2pm. I do not have a place to host, so that would be something we need to work out.
let me get all 5 of you in the room (or up to 7) drop your shorts, and let me go to work...I Just love to take it all...
If interested, let me know so we can set this up.
reply with name,number photo so I can call to confirm a time and place. I need 5 to 7 though.. Bring your friends..
** Small donation of $50 would be nice.. ****
your asian treat..
--------
Sooo... who's up for it?
Q
While we're at it, let's spell the name of one of the Internet's oldest commercial successes correctly.
Well, I for one didn't see this coming.
I'm a bit worried that it had to be eBay. eBay does not have very good corporate ethics (one only has to look at how they run PayPal, which they now wholly own, to see this in action), and in many ways they are (at best) a marginal net-citizen.
What worries me more is that Craigslist is, in essence, the competition. I hope this dosen't mean the end of it as we know it.
> So will Craigslist now become more corporate/evil? Personally, I've benefited a lot from Craigslist classifieds and I hope it doesn't lose its attitude."
The problem could exist. I'm currently upset with eBay for it's plans to drop half.com, which they aquired a while back.
Yeah, it makes perfect sense to "merge" a perfectly good, usable, and friendly system like half.com into ebay. Everything, after all, should be an auction...
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
Except for the obligatory, and meaningless, slam on the U.S. and corporations, his explanation reads like any corporate PR post.
Of course, Craig incorporated. Otherwise, he -- personally -- would carry all the financial obligation and risk for anything related to his business. Only a fool would choose to run the risk of bankrupting himself if his business goes under.
Of course, it is expected that Slashdot -- part of the OSTG corporation would pander to the bigotry of its fantasy-ridden core audience.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Craig's List doesn't have a commission cut and there's no spread between buying and selling prices, so what's the point in trading?
The point in trading is to trade the items; what does craiglist not getting a commission have to do with the traders' desires, aside from making them somewhat easier to fulfill? Is altruism really that mind-bending to you?
Those shares could have been sold to anyone- we're happy that eBay has communicated that they want no part of craigslist if we're unhappy with the deal. With a 25% holding, there's no real power that can be exerted by eBay. Obviously I can't go into details, but craigslist is secure.
it's up to us to prove with actions, not words, that we're still the same old craigslist.
Sean @CL
The dude is reportedly rolling in money; one of his former business parters sold out to Ebay; now there's a big messy lovefest and Ebay is about "building community?"
Sure it's all possible...
This Like That - fun with words!
i can think of two reasons: one is not paying taxes on the goods, the other is the relationship building aspect of a barter, where you and the other party can reach beyond the wall of money and deal with eachother more intimately. when you buy something, you are virtually eclipsed by the transaction; it becomes the focal point. in a barter, the focal points (note: plural) are each other and the mutual meeting of interests.
I was about to reply saying "Boyfriend? This is Slashdot, remember..." but then I thought to myself, "Oh yeah... San Francisco." ;)
Back in the day you could leave feedback for anybody if it was positive so I'd randomly leave things like "best Cuban cigars I ever smoked. Thanks!" but that fun is over so now I specialize in utter non-sequitors: "Otters make great pets. Thanks!" (I bought a watch).
Nobody's ever written me back about the dozens of these I've left.
Need Mercedes parts ?