Ring-Tone Barons? Japanese Record Companies Raided

PuceBaboon writes " The Asahi Shimbun is reporting that officers from the Fair Trade Commission raided several major record companies in Japan, including Sony Music Entertainment, Toshiba EMI and Avex, on suspicion of creating a monopoly for the purpose of maintaining artificially high prices on... telephone ring-tone tunes."

Comments

Good

[Lord Kano]

I'd like to see this happen in the US. I'd also like to see pressure put on Cell phone makers to open up the system for user created tones.

Or why not just let a phone play a 10 second or so clip of an MP3? The decoder chips are cheap enough now.

I won't use the word conspiracy, but there is collusion between service providers and phone manufacturers to keep the price of ring tones so fucking high.

LK

Re:Good

[evvk]

At least my phone comes with software (albeit winblows-only) to convert
normal midi tunes to the limited format the phone wants. Then you can
transfer them to the phone with whatever expensive cables they sell or
by IR, or by putting the tune on a wap-enabled apache server.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

You voted last time, did you?

Re:Good

[Daleks]

Then you can transfer them to the phone with whatever expensive cables they sell or by IR, or by putting the tune on a wap-enabled apache server.

Not all carriers allow OTA (over the air) downloads of ringtones, wallpapers, or Java programs. I almost didn't get T-Mobile service because of this, but they were the only carrier with good reception in my area. AT&T (soon to be Cingular) is good about being open. I'm not sure where the other carriers stand.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Or why not just let a phone play a 10 second or so clip of an MP3?

Actually, phones are already available which play mp3 ringtones.
Google: "mp3 ringtones"

Re:Good

[SoCalAndy]

Or why not just let a phone play a 10 second or so clip of an MP3?

My phone ,Motorola V600, does have this. I have about 6 megs to play around with... And the sound quality ain't half bad either!

Re:Good

[Awptimus Prime]

Personally, I use Bluetooth between my phone and PC to manage ringtones, make additional phonebook entries, install games/apps, and copy pictures from the phone to the PC. This cuts out the middleman and any unexpected charges.

I find this especially useful since I compose my own music. Simply export a mix to a MIDI file and copy it over. Instant custom ring-tones like none other!

You do not need Windows, as suggested in other posts. Dig around on SourceForge and other Open Source sites, all the tools you need are there regardless of your OS.

Personally, I do not like the idea of MP3 ringtones. It is much easier on the brain to hear a dinky midi of an Emeniem song a thousand times than to hear the real thing with vocals. I know, I'm screwed on that one. It is enevitable.

Re:Good

[itsthebin]

yes my phone plays an Mp3 as my ringtone, it's a nokia ngage original. I just edited out the section I wanted using audacity and loaded it on my MMC card. you could also put it on the phones internal memory with bluetooth or fileExplorer.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you havent been here. http://www.3gupload.com/

Re:Good

[Alioth]

Buy your own phone instead of using the telco's one and you can do that. I bought a nice Nokia 6820 (because it has the qwerty keyboard when you open it - hard to irc with a number pad only). It plays standard MIDI files. I just stuck the MIDI files I wanted on my website, and just used the phone's web browser to fetch them.

I personally use the introduction to a fairly obscure game because it more or less guarantees my ring tone is unique (so no hunting for my phone when someone else with the same tone has their phone ring). With my last phone (a cheap Nokia, the type usually bought for kids for PAYG service), I simply composed my own ring tone with the phone's composer (for the same reasons). When I bought the 6820, I gave away the cheap Nokia to a friend who needed a phone, I think they probably still use my ring tone :-)

Re:Good

[grolschie]

My Siemens C55 which is quite old now, plays wav files no problem.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Or why not just let a phone play a 10 second or so clip of an MP3? The decoder chips are cheap enough now.

I always assumed that, but why are crappy MP3 players still up around $100? A crappy portable CD player is around $20 with a laser and more moving parts, but a smaller portable MP3 with no moving parts is still around 5 times as much.

I know, -1 Offtopic.

Re:Good

[dbIII]

Or why not just let a phone play a 10 second or so clip of an MP3?

I'm sure that will happen - the cameras did, but for now phones like my nokia come with PC software to convert sound files to ringtones. Using it completely voids copyright on the songs, and every time it rings it is a "public performance", but I suspect hardly anyone is ever going to care about that.

I won't use the word conspiracy

I'll say it - the music industry is nasty and full of types that openly boast about getting people kneecaps smashed (a muso that pissed off Sharon Osbourne's dad was given that treatment). What's a bit of price fixing after grevious bodily harm?

Re:Good

[Robotz]

With Bluetooth, my phone allows me to transfer my camera pics (and any other bitmap that I've stored on the phone) to another Bluetooth phone.

However, it will not allow me to transfer any of the midi files that I have uploaded to it, or even any audio (conversations / meetings) that I have recorded with the phone directly to another bluetooth phone.

I wonder if this is a deliberate limitation of the phone that has been imposed by my carrier? The phone is a Nokia 6600.

Re:Good

[dave420]

They do accept user-created ring tones, in fact, they openly support it. .MID files are common, and lots of new (and not-so-new) phones support MP3 ring-tones already.

There's no conspiracy, just a bunch of stupid people who don't realise you can get the ringtones for free off the net, and who don't realise the incredible lack of value a ringtone has. Because these people don't have a clue, they keep on paying $3 for 20K of data, which keeps these companies in business. If people stopped paying the extortionate prices, they would drop.

Re:Good

[kunudo]

Mine too, a Sony Ericsson k700i. I have 40 mb though :) And the sound quality is awesome, if you use the handsfree. 40mb isn't much for an mp3 player though..

Re:Good

[Hast]

That's possible. I can transfer sound files with my SE T630 without a problem. (To other phones.)

I can't transfer programs though.

Re:Good

[Gandalfar]

Maybe it's easier and cheaper for most of the people to just pay $3 for a ringtone they like once in a while instead of spending hours of searching the net for them and stumbling through all the paying ringtone sites. And even if you do find a midi you maybe don't have correct cables/knowledge to do it in a timely manner.

With your cell provider you at least know who you are dealing with and that it will work with your provider and phone and that you will possibly get support for it. I guess the ringtone has got a value for some people.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Those non-moving parts include flash memory, which is extremely expensive to make.

Re:Good

[jonbryce]

My phone (HTC Himalaya) lets me play .wav files as ringtones. It isn't too difficult to convert an mp3 to a wav.

Re:Good

[spikestabber]

Cant be that bad, considering a 256M piece of compact flash averages 30 bucks now.

Re:Good

[SillyNickName4me]

Gee... I have an old Ericsson phone... and a Palmtop..

There is free software for my palmtop for converting and editing (midi like) ringtones.. I can transfer them using infrared or bluetooth...

This all is like 3 years old.. you are telling me that 'modern' phones no longer allow this kind of thing? that is insane.

Re:Good

[Alsee]

I personally use the introduction to a fairly obscure game

Would that happen to be Zero Wing?

-

Re:Good

[owlstead]

Well, you could always play a ringtone on an old phone and record that. Or on any other midi device which can create dinky midi music, like for instance, most computers. All you will experience is that you will hear other phones less, and if you do they just play music (continuously, if you are unlucky). The future is bright for dinky midi lovers.

Re:Good

[Simonetta]

Well, you could always play a ringtone on an old phone and record that.

That's an interesting idea. But what do you mean by 'old phone'. Would it be the 1960's-style rotary dial phone (Ma Bell standard) or an even earlier 1920's-style microwave-oven-sized wooden box. The kind with the earpiece on a thick black wire.

And where would you get a recording of one of these phones ringing tones? The physical phones aren't around anymore. Maybe taking a sound sample from the sound tracks of movies from the desired period.

Personally, I hate ring tones. Vicious little piezos blasting synthetic Bach for looooong times in inappropriate places. The only decent ring tone would only be one second long at most and consist of a precise musical phrase of three or four notes that would let the owner know a call was waiting but not bother all the other people around that don't want to know about it.
I may be old, but I find that having ordinary normal-like people suddenly pick up a screaching little plastic box, hold it to their ear, go into totally spaced out mode with their eyes unfocused and staring into space, and spend minutes talking to themselves speaking disconnected nonsense, then clicking the little plastic box shut and rejoining the group while acting like nothing unusual happened...well I find this to be extraordinarily weird. On the same level of weirdness as any of the behavior of the burned-out acid head hippies in the 1970's.
Maybe it's just me....

Re:Good

[vidnet]

You americans and your cell phone networks... In Europe, no provider creates custom firmware, all phones can be used on all networks and with all ringtone/game/wallpaper services. These crazy lock-in things are unimaginable and illegal.

Re:Good

[Daleks]

Europeans also pay far more per-minute of voice calls than American customers do. American companies make up for it by charging extra for data services.

The only complaint I have about carrier lock-ins is I can't always pick the phone apart from the carrier. Sure I can get an unlocked phone and try to buy just a SIM, but not all services work correctly.

Re:Good

[NanoGator]

"I'm not sure where the other carriers stand."

I use Cingular on the central coast of California. Just to be a nerd, I acquired a few sounds of the handlink from Quantum Leap, converted them into .MP3, uploaded them to my webserver (apache, but not specifically WAP), and went to that page via my phone to download and install them. (My phone doesn't have IR or Bluetooth, and I dun wanna pay $60 for a cable..) Worked fine.

Re:Good

[Alioth]

No, Frontier: First Encounters.

Re:Good

[grandemperor]

14 euro-cents for the first minute and gets lower in following minutes is costly? Well, not for me. It could be cheaper, but it could also be a hell lot costlier. I remember when I paid almost 1 euro/min for mobile-mobile about 7 years ago or so...

Re:Good

[ajayvb]

It's not just about ringtones. If I want to use my GSM phone with a different SIM card (I wanted to use mine with a pre-paid card when I was in India), you need to "unlock" your phone. Apparently, T-Mobile (my service provider) allows you to do it, while AT&T doesn't. I mean, you're bound for a year-long contract, they'll charge you for breaking it, but you can't use your cellphone on any other network (which essentially means, you can't use it without their permission). If not for the free nights and weekends , I'd have shifted to a pre-paid long back.

Re:Good

[technos]

The physical phones aren't around anymore.

Wanna bet? Call up any of the baby bells. I bet they could scrounge you any of their "approved" phones all the way back to the late 60's if you offer the right warehouse lackey the right amount of money. They're assets, and as they're returned they're catalogued and stored. But as they're not a phone in the current issue list, they sit in a warehouse corner.

Want farther back? 50's? 40's? Call one of the major motion picture studios. With the way those guys pack-rat crap, I bet you could have a phone June Cleaver or Lucille Ball used on the air.

Not old enough? Call AT&T. I heard tell of a couple of company museums in Jersey while I worked there. Lots of prototype kind of stuff. Or try the Smithsonian. They probably have a very wide selection of telephones.

What about the White House Public Relations people? They'll be able to tell you which museum got phone number 1. If they're not too productive, mabye you can ring the Hayes' Presidential Center. They may have it.

These were mass produced items, and all in the last 130 years. To think that even one significant model is unlocatable with Google and a phone is ridiculous.

Re:Good

[macdaddy]

The MP3 idea will probably never happen. I could see that group that represents the industry (not the RIAA, but another) sue manufacturers and authors claiming that playing the sound in public constitutes an unlicensed public performance. This is similar to the crap this group did to force places like Pizza Hut to pay licensing fees to allow them to play music over the dining area speakers (excluding the jukebox). They also pulled this stunt on companies using on-hold music. I forget their name. ASPCA sounds familiar but I know that's not right. LOL.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

ASCAP (pron. ass-cap), acronym for American Society of Composers, Artists and Performers.

Re:Good

[macdaddy]

That's it. I knew I was close. Thanks!

Re:Good

[Altizar]

You bitch about those ringtones, but you aslo forget back when there was only one or two different rings and when ever a phone would ring everyone would have to check to see if it was their phone.
I hate the artifical sounding ring tones that come with most phones but its much better than having to check your phone every time you heard a cell phone ring.

Re:Good

[harpoon]

It is trivial to unlock GSM phones for us with all carriers.


Google around for a "DCT4 Calculator", also check out freeyourmobile.com

Is it just me

[aixou]

or are almost all telephone ringtones *overpriced*. I mean, come on, they are selling crappy midi files for outrageous (comparatively) prices. Perhaps its all just good business, but I get irritated at such extreme profit turns.

Re:Is it just me

[Anonymous Coward]

or are almost all telephone ringtones *overpriced*. I mean, come on, they are selling crappy midi files for outrageous (comparatively) prices. Perhaps its all just good business, but I get irritated at such extreme profit turns.

Tell me about it. Or tell my brother about it, he's the one who had to pay for my nephew's $550 cell bill. Most of the cost?

Ring tones.

The kid should have known better yes, he's fifteen, but damn.

Re:Is it just me

[Anonymous Coward]

The kid should have known better yes, he's fifteen, but damn.

I'd use the phrase "oh he should have known better" perhaps if he'd clocked up $550 on your bro's credit card for shopping, or gone a bit far on ITMS with REAL music downloading, or given them free reign for a weekend party, but fucking RING TONES.

Your nephew has some problems.

Re:Is it just me

[ImaLamer]

I was suprised when I was on AOL today and saw their prices for ringtones.

I signed up for AOL because of that "freeipods" deal (I referred you, wink wink). During my exploration of all the new stuff put on AOL over the past 10 years since my last free trial I noticed an area called AOL "My Mobile".

Well, clicking around I found a "ringtones" section and checked it out. Seems that they offer a subscription(!!!) to their ringtones service which makes them 60 cents a piece or they sell them outright for $1.20.

What? How many ringtones can you use at once? I'm not aware of a phone which will cycle ringtones from a playlist but I'm sure that is next. I'm happy with the Imperial March... why would I change it anyways.

Seems like a huge waste of money. Next your phone company will be charging you for receiving ringtones. Either way, I could get the entire songs from iTunes anyways.

Notice, the prices above are close to what I remember... don't hold me to it. Get free ringtones from this site anyways.

Re:Is it just me

[hackstraw]

Is it just me or almost all sodas overpriced at a movie theater? I mean, come on, they are selling crappy sugar and soda water drinks for outrageous (compatatively) prices....

Give me a break. There is overpricing and taxing of luxury items all over the place. The taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, parking at a "special event", and so on.

Now if one's life is that significantly changed by having a 30 second pop song playing instead of the 30-50 standard rings that comes with the phone for free, then yeah, you have to pay the 10 bucks or whatever a ringtone costs, otherwise pick one of the 30-50 standard rings. Maybe I'm old, but I remember when you had the choice between 1 ring on a phone -- maybe with the option to not ring at all, or a "high" or "low" volume ring, but otherwise it was a mechanical hammer repeatedly pounding on a metal bell for 2 seconds or so with 1 second or so of silence.

Why is it that people expect so much, but are unwilling to pay for it?

Re:Is it just me

[realdpk]

Most of the new phones will let you assign different ringtones to different people, so you know who's calling by listening. Kind of neat, but I do wish they'd just include boring old standard ringer sounds like in the old days.

Ringtones??

[newdles]

You have to BUY ringtones? What's this world coming to? Next thing you know, MS will charge extra for ding dongs it adds to messenger :O

Re:Ringtones??

[rokzy]

yes, one penny per ring or part ring.

I get one over on them by putting it on silent instead.

Re:Ringtones??

[Anonymous Coward]

Next thing you know, MS will charge extra for ding dongs it adds to messenger :O

Good Idea!

Thank you!

-M$FT

Re:Ringtones??

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol, and I was just thinking as I started to read the comments... how will they turn this into an MS bashing opportunity... yup... there it is.

Re:Ringtones??

[morganjharvey]

Next thing you know, MS will charge extra for ding dongs it adds to messenger

Dude. Leave Hostess out of this.

Re:Ringtones??

[sharkey]

Next thing you know, MS will charge extra for ding dongs it adds to messenger :O

Waitaminute! I thought the ding dongs were the ones BUYING Windows.

Re:Ringtones??

[jabberwock]

I don't know I anyone personally who has ever bought a ringtone. The first time I ever read that ringtones were a billion-dollar business, I was sure it was a joke or a typo. So ... I'm guessing ... well, it could be that a few really rich stupid people, ummm ... bought a few hundred million ring tones apiece, and we're fooled into thinking that it's a big market?

Record Companies have monopolies?!

[chi11er]

Not being horrible or anything... but

"The companies are suspected of colluding to restrict sales of recordings "

Well duh! How long did it take to figure this one out???

vocals?

[thekitch]

"But when a clip from the original hit recording including the vocals is used as a ring tone, record companies can control who has the right to distribute it." I don't see why the record companies don't have control if the vocals aren't included.

Re:vocals?

[dnixon112]

I don't see why the record companies don't have control if the vocals aren't included.
Probably because most hit songs out now use 'samples' of other people's music to begin with.

Re:vocals?

[yo303]

I don't see why the record companies don't have control if the vocals aren't included.

Because they are recording companies.

(And to clarify, it's not just the vocals -- it's the particular recording, usually including vocals.)

The record company owns the recording, not the composition. To sell the record, the record company must licence the song from the composer (who is often not the performer in question.)

As an example, let's take the song "Remember (Walking in the Sand)", originally performed by the Shangri-Las, and written by George Morton. It was since covered by Patsy Cline, the Beach Boys and Aerosmith, among others.

If you wanted the Aerosmith version as your ringtone, you'd have to licence it from whoever owns that Aerosmith recording, and from whoever now owns the rights to the composition... but not from the Shangri-Las' right-holders, because you're not using their recording.

If you just wanted the song itself as a midi file in your phone, you don't have to pay anything to Aerosmith's label, nor to the Beach Boys' label, nor to the Shangri-Las' label -- because you're not using those recordings. You just have to pay whoever now owns George Morton's composition rights (provided the copyright hasn't lapsed) because that's all you're using.

yo.

Re:vocals?

[coolsva]

IIRC, the recording company owns the right to the original recording. There is some provision in the copyright act which gives permission for others to reproduce a 'cover version' sans copyright violations.
Or else, we would reach a point where simple tune 'da-ra-pa-pa-pa' is copyrighted by some artist/company and can no longer be used.

Re:vocals?

[telemonster]

However, you have to pay performance rights fees everytime your phone goes off in public.

Sounds like the Japanese version of the RIAA...

[Photo_Nut]

Make sure you pay top dollar for that ring tone. After all, it is _stealing_ if you use a ring tone you didn't pay us extra for, and only _we_ can allow you to add a new ring tone.

Is it just me, or is this rediculous?

First, that there is money to be had in making consumers pay to be able to upload a WAV file into their Cell phone, and second, that the government is breaking into corporate offices over this?

Bizarre.

Re:Sounds like the Japanese version of the RIAA...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it just me, or is this rediculous?

The only thing that's ridiculous is your spelling...

Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck 'em. Sony can go to hell. That company hobbles a good deal of its consumer electronics. If you can get a pair of Sony headphones to last a year of regular use, well...you save $100.

Collusion among Japanese companies?

[davejenkins]

Collusion among Japanese companies?
I'm shocked! Shocked!!

The GOJ raids probably 2-3 major industries each year on average. Collusion is bound to happen when:
1. almost every major company has its HQ in one city (Tokyo)
2. everyone knows each other
3. if/when a manager changes teams, it is assumed he will take the Db and any other data he can obtain on his way out the door
4. "gentlemanly cooperation" is seen as a way to maintain safe sales levels for everyone, while going for the jugular on external (overseas) sales

Re:Collusion among Japanese companies?

[Pythagorus]

Tokyo's not a city, but a prefecture...I live here...Now if there's anything that can be done about the rest of the criminally high prices in every other aspect of life in Japan. The economy here will never recover because so many families have a few million in the bank, but are afraid to spend it. Nothing's moving. The government wants more kids so they'll have more tax-payers, but not only is the cost prohibitively high, standards for pollution levels, building safety, etc. are in the gutter with all the other corruption...

Re:Collusion among Japanese companies?

[davejenkins]

Tokyo's not a city, but a prefecture

Close, but it's a Metropolitan Area (to), not a prefecture (ken). Prices are certainly high in Tokyo, but not where they really would be had it not been for a 12 year malaise. Prices have been pretty much stagnant for the last 6-7 years. Coupled with loans at 3%, and capital is pretty much "free" at this point.

If you are worried about shoddy building codes and pollution, then you probably have not been to Seoul, Pusan, Shanghai, or anywhere in the interior of China. Tokyo is a rocksafe paradise by comparison.

Re:Collusion among Japanese companies?

[Pythagorus]

To/Do/Fu/Ken...it's all the same...like states in the US exept they don't get their own laws... These other places you mention in asia aren't "the world's second largest economy" or G-8 countries. Japan is full of those "so advanced" in one way/"ages behind" in others. You'd expect a better standard for a supposedly advanced country. That's all I meant in regard to that...

Re:Collusion among Japanese companies?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok,
I'll bite, I have lived in the US in several places, and in Japan. Every country has it's problems, but let's see:

Philadelphia:
Dirty and ghetto.

NYC:
Cleaner than Tokyo, nowhere near as ghetto,
also not as nice as tokyo.

Toyko:
Clean and not ghetto.

One thing I still can never adjust to is that after being in Japan and coming back to the US, people here are allowed to get away with bring so rude. You go into Wendys or something and you get a look like "Why are you here?" and they say "yes? .. next...". In japan, that would get the person fired. If you hate your job that much, go somewhere else. Between that and all the americans who can't seem to speak their own language properly "that'll be fitty cent" eh? you mean "Fifty Cents"? Real professional...

iTMS?

[InternationalCow]

It's interesting in this regard to think of the announcement some weeks ago of iTunes coming to Motorola cellphones. Then you have several record companies offering tunes and whatnot through a single channel. Talking about set prices... I wonder what the antitrust laws would have to say about that.

mp3 as ringtone

[MoZ-RedShirt]

Or why not just let a phone play a 10 second or so clip of an MP3? The decoder chips are cheap enough now.

The newest Nokia phones are able to use midi files or mp3 files as ringtones. You can load them via infrared, cable or bluetooth connection and thus don't have to pay a single cent for your new ringtones.

RedShirt

Re:mp3 as ringtone

[Florian Weimer]

You can load them via infrared, cable or bluetooth connection and thus don't have to pay a single cent for your new ringtones.

You still need a license to play them in public, though.

Re:mp3 as ringtone

[darekana]

Or maybe the phone companies would rather make money by restricting the handset to only use pay services?

The top 10 ring tone services have about 800,000-1million subscribers, at $3 a month each or so that's pretty big business (at least in japan).

Re:mp3 as ringtone

[maidhc]

My Siemens s45 (from about 2001) can play midi files! Nothing very complicated, but at times I swear it almost sounds like the piece of music i uploaded.

Re:mp3 as ringtone

[xmda]

Only problem is that they are mosly useless as *ring tones*. I recently bought a Ericsson T630, a phone that has almost all the latest bills and whistles, but one thing that annoys me is that all ring tones suck! They do not ring loud enough for me to heard them. *All* previous phones I have had (different brands) have had ring tones that you could actually heard, but now that they primary use these darn .mid songs, well...

Re:mp3 as ringtone

[wfberg]

Just fire up a MIDI sequencer and make the loudest beep you can. The sounds on an Ericsson that actually are annoyingly loud are also MIDI files, just not polished polyphonic ones.

Re:mp3 as ringtone

[Cylix]

Nah, I'm just going to record myself singing!

Royalty free... for me!b

Re:mp3 as ringtone

[way2trivial]

Hmm.. it might interest you to know that my Kyocera phone has this ability, and it's been released for close to two years now

in fact, I can assign all sounds except phone # keypresses to any mp3 I'd like...

Re:mp3 as ringtone

[Anonymous Coward]

a phone that has almost all the latest bills and whistles

I know how that feels.

Yes, there is money to be made

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as i know, they are making more money with ringtones than with ordinary CD-singles by now. Meaning that every time you buy a single, you (statistically) have bought at least 20 ringtones.

*sigh*

[boypharmacy]

Another example of what happens when the police get bored.

Where ringtones would get us

[Renegade Lisp]

It is interesting that the money spent on ringtones world-wide (approx. $2 billion a year, from a random statistic I just grabbed off the web) would be all that it takes to fund a manned mission to Mars (estimated at maybe $10 billion, over a period of, say, 10 years).

Here's an idea: what if the prices for ringtones were kept at the current level no matter what, whereas the record companies etc. were forced to turn over their excess profits so they can be invested into space exploration?

Re:Where ringtones would get us

[mikael]

Better still, someone comes up with a composition for a song/ringtone that is used to fund such a mission. Various wildlife charities are already doing this and it allows mobile phone users to choose where their money goes. I certainly don't like the idea of maintaining artificially high prices for the sake of any government funded project, no matter how good the intentions.

Re:Where ringtones would get us

[FlopEJoe]

3.5 Billion as of 13 Jan according to Wired: http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,61903,00 .html.

And now it's time to repeat... Man, I'm in the wrong business.

Re:Where ringtones would get us

[Renegade Lisp]

3.5 Billion as of 13 Jan according to Wired

That's okay, the 10 billion figure for Mars is also a bit low probably.

Re:Where ringtones would get us

[Ungrounded Lightning]

Here's an idea: what if the prices for ringtones were kept at the current level no matter what, whereas the record companies etc. were forced to turn over their excess profits so they can be invested into space exploration?

Then the consumers AND the investors get ripped off by the government. (And only the well-to-do get ring tones.)

(Besides, you KNOW they'll use it for something else. Like $6,000,000 each cars for mass transit that doesn't go thorugh any two points between which masses need transit.)

I make my own

[Facekhan]

I bought the cable for my LG VX6000 phone and use some third party software bit_pm to upload ringtones that I make from any sound file. I just lower the quality a bit (soundforge free trial or any other editor) and make it mono and cut about 30-60 seconds out of an mp3 to make my ringtones then upload them to the phone. Took a fair amount of head scratching to get it all to work right but there is no reason to pay just to format shift the music you already have to a ringtone. Its amazing how the verizon software that comes with the cable can't even convert my phone book into a .csv but some guy in his spare time has managed to let me make my own ringtones.

If you have bluetooth...

[DrXym]

... or a datakit you can often copy .mid files over to the phone and use them as ringtones.

They're easy enough to find, e.g. here, but a web search for your favourite artist / song + "mid" will find them quickly enough on plenty of sites. Some sites even make them available by WAP so you can grab them straight to your phone with no PC.

Or be a chump. Most of the lowest common denominator tabloids are filled with full page ads where you can download ringtones and wallpaper for 4.50 / £3.00 each. You probably end up with the same MIDI file that the operator found on one of the free sites. I very much doubt that the artist gets a slice of that so why hand out money for something you can have for free?

Re:If you have bluetooth...

[Anonymous Coward]

Give this site a go:
http://www.truepolyphonic.com/

Some popups, not many though.

Can't you just upload them?

[BobTheAtheist]

With my phone I can just upload any ring tone via cable or IR... Do new phones allow this?

Re:Can't you just upload them?

[mali]

In theory, this should be possible with most newer phones. However, if you have bought the phone from your network operator, you might have bought a crippled version of the phone: Vodafone sells these kind of phones here in Germany: You cannot use get photos out of the phone or get ringtones into it via Cable/IR/Bluetooth ...

Re:Can't you just upload them?

[Awptimus Prime]

Just an FYI on this subject:

T-Mobile does not appear to cripple their phones in the US. The worst I have seen them do on my phone is set some files as read-only. I have two stupid wallpapers and a game that will not delete.

Anybody have any suggestions which does not involve a hammer?

In Capitalistic America

[Anonymous Coward]

Record company raids you!

Re:In Capitalistic America

[Powercntrl]

And if you're the record company, in Soviet Russia everyone raids YOU!

Re:In Capitalistic America

[t_allardyce]

best comment ever

Re:In Capitalistic America

[Anonymous Coward]

Its funny because its true!

Download for free

[CaptainZapp]

Applicable for Nokia phones, but may apply for other brands too.

You can always save the $, Euro, YEN for ringtones by finding a free midi site (annoying banners warning) and convert them yourself with the included Nokia software (sorry, Windoze only).

In addition I get the bonus of not knowing anybody else to have Led Zeppelins "Kashmir" as a ringtone.

Works for me and makes me laugh every time when I see those fantastic 4EUR99 offers...

Re:Download for free

[moonbender]

Or you preserve global public sanity by just having a ringtone that rings instead of abusing cell phone rining as some sort of individualised message to the world. Bah. It's not like I have anything against mobiles, but heck, the vibration alarm is really all you need in public.

Re:Download for free

[timerider]

as long as its some sort of individual ringtone, ok.

ever been in a bus/cable car/{insert public transport of choice} with lets say 2 dozens of suits, everyone having a nokia phone because they were 'in' with the suits back then, every one having not cared to change the ringtone setting, then somewhere in the bus the default nokia ringtone starts blaring, and 24 bankers do the macarena?

i rather have midi files. as long as those are not the "top 10" from last week...

Re:Download for free

[Erik Hollensbe]

We have a guy at work (that I'm "lucky" enough to sit next to) that has a phone that supports polyphonic ring tones.

After hearing a really bad midi version of "The Final Countdown" for a good 9 months, at full volume, having the majority of the people in proximity to him complain about it, he replaces it with some bullshit spewing out of William Shatner's mouth. Meanwhile, the rest of us leave our phones with the generic stock tones (polyphonic or not), and those that get calls often set their phones to just vibrate.

Granted, this is the guy who is proud of writing 40k LOC of useless code that we replaced with a 100 line perl module and doesn't even work because he never finished a working build system for it. I guess that explains a lot.

Re:Download for free

[triso]

Granted, this is the guy who is proud of writing 40k LOC of useless code that we replaced with a 100 line perl module and doesn't even work because he never finished a working build system for it. I guess that explains a lot.

Your manager should be slapped for allowing him to run wild for so long without supervision. Now, everybody's time has been wasted.

Re:Download for free

[Anonymous Coward]

but heck, the vibration alarm is really all you need in public.

So sayeth you. Yet, the burgeoning mass of humanity that prefers ringtones disagrees with you. Too bad the world isn't a benevolent dictatorship, where this obviously superior ringtone-free viewpoint is enforced upon those too stupid to recognize the benefits to your psyche.

Re:Download for free

[moonbender]

I'm so sorry for daring to forget the disclaimer that all I'm stating is merely my opinion. And in such a formal environment, too. I should be banned!

Re:Download for free

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey! I read slashdot, you insensitive clod!

signed, the guy with the phone. Next to you.

Re:Download for free

[NanoGator]

"After hearing a really bad midi version of "The Final Countdown" for a good 9 months, at full volume, having the majority of the people in proximity to him complain about it, he replaces it with some bullshit spewing out of William Shatner's mouth. Meanwhile, the rest of us leave our phones with the generic stock tones (polyphonic or not), and those that get calls often set their phones to just vibrate."

I had that problem where I used to work. Had a coworker that had his ringer up all the way in a Dilbertian cubicle environment. I politely informed him that it was annoying. His response was interesting. He didn't know how to turn it down. He handed me his phone to look at, and he was right, there wasn't an exposed inteface to play with the ring volume! Dead serious! I had to go find a manual for his phone to work out how to do it! I'm glad most phones aren't like that.

Anyway, I drifted off topic a bit. That little situation lasted a whopping 2 days from the first ring to the phone being put an accceptable level. All it took was a polite conversation. I'm not saying you didn't do that, but I do feel strongly that all it takes is to make a polite request instead of 'complaining'.

Re:Download for free

[FurryFeet]

Granted, this is the guy who is proud of writing 40k LOC of useless code that we replaced with a 100 line perl module and doesn't even work because he never finished a working build system for it. I guess that explains a lot.

Except his continued employment at your company. I mean, really.

Re:Download for free

[MyHair]

Sadly, that hasn't changed with the advent of ringtones in my experience.

Recently at a busy restaraunt I sat next to a table of businessmen, and within 10 minutes *I* knew which ring tone belonged to which businessman, but I swear every time one went off all of them reached for their phones!

My mother is the same way. If a family member's phone rings, she digs for hers frantically. I feel odd telling her it's not her phone ringing.

Re:Download for free

[ross.w]

No, what you want is an MP3 saying "ANSWER the F***ING PHONE!" over and over again.

Then you'll remember to turn it off when you're in a public place.

After the first few times anyway.

Re:Download for free

[Erik Hollensbe]

Oh, if you only knew....

Out of a team of 7, 3 of our coworkers have worked at other jobs with him - to which all of them were hired without question... All of our standard testing and interview practices were thrown out the window.

As a result, one of them (the only one hired before me) really had a grasp on our primary programming language (perl) when they were hired. Guess who got to teach them basic things like "no, while() requires a block in perl - that's just how it is". Realistically, only one more of them knows the language at an acceptable level to write production code - very slow production code that uses more tricks that he learned from MJD at OSCON than pragmaticism.

The irony of all this is that 3 of them were hired later than me and they're all getting paid more because they started later - great reward system. 30% of the reasonably large code bsae came from my fingertips... And since they have been in the primary design roles in the last year and refuse to listen to me as I try to plan ahead, we have appromately 2 months to double our site performance (200 h/s to 400 h/s). To add icing to the cake, I am the only member on my team willing to work nights and weekends to make up lost time for everyone writing design documents which involve less than 100 lines of code.

I quit once this month already, and due to no change in the environment (a condition I demanded upon returning) I left resignation last thursday and was told to wait until today to discuss it with my vacationing manager. To put it simply: we are screwed, and I want nothing to do with it - I put up an idea on something that might fix it but 2 weeks have now passed with no support from management or the team, because our other "designers" don't like it (read: Not Invented Here).

Apologies for the rant, but I know there are those who have been in this kind of situation before and I'm sure know how frustrating it is to take pride in your work, only to have it stomed on by a bunch of nieve "good ol' boys".

Re:Download for free

[FurryFeet]

I've been there. Exactly there. All I can say is I sympathize, and hope things turn out for the better (probably at another job).
Good luck, man.

Collusion? Well Duh!

[Ronald Dumsfeld]

``We never asked the record companies to offer their songs only to us,'' said a Label Mobile official. ``The record companies would not be likely to do that anyway.''

Of course, Label Mobile never had to ask for the monopoly. They were set up by the record companies for that very purpose.

this is not about polyphonic ringtones

[stray]

correct me if i'm mistaken here, but as i read the article, the collusion charges *are* in fact about the sale of "real" recording snippets, be they in mp3 format or whatever is en vogue over there.

the article states that the record companies don't have control over the "instrumental" versions, which mostly are polyphonic midi ringtones. the prices for those may be too high also, but for different reasons (well, the same reason but a different set of unscrupulous companies i guess :-)).

it seems that snippets of real recordings (i.e. digital wave samples a la pixmap images as opposed to descriptive interpreted music notations (midi) a la vector images) are popular ringtone choices... in Japan (hey, what happened to that meme anyway?)

For starters...

[intekra]

They need to make new phones come with NORMAL standard ring tones. Not fairy tale musicals, no rotary style ring rings, how about a decent sounding 'ring ring' eh? The fact that I had to use Adobe Audition and pieces of a midi ringtone to make my 'ring ring' is an outrage. As far as musical ringtones from MP3s some phones support MP3 ringstones and more often than not, WAV ringtones. If you're lucky enough to have a smartphone, well you're like me and have a LOT more freedom over ringtones on your phone. MP3 > edit > drag drop > set as tone > done! Hell, I just got a freeware DiVX player for my cell phone :)

Japan, a nation based on principles of free speech

[Anonymous Coward]

It's no wonder that the nation with the Constitution based on protections of free speech would step up to these bullies trying to lock down the free exchange of information.
Wait? Japan? What has happened here?
It's almost as though the net result of WWII was just to have the axis and the allies trade places. The US have become the nazis and the Japanese are protecting individual liberties.

Er, MP3s?

[kahei]

1 -- plug phone into USB port
2 -- drag MP3 files into phone, unplug from USB port
3 -- set one of the MP3s as the ringtone
4 -- profit!

This seems to work pretty well for me... am I missing something?

Why is the mobile market so expensive?

[hkmwbz]

"or are almost all telephone ringtones *overpriced*"

Mobile services are way overpriced. At least in Europe. The reason? Mobiles allow the people who run the network to make deals with people who deliver contents.

Because mobiles have traditionally had very limited software capabilities, they have been able to charge outrageous sums for mobile services. Instead of browsing the web you'll be browsing some specialized service with content created specifically for mobiles.

And the problem isn't just that the mobile operators and content owners do everything they can to keep it that way.

And even worse, people like Danish mobile analyst John Strand from Strand Consult are attacking anything which threatens this mobile hegemony by operators and content owners.

John Strand has been known to use his influence to try to make sure that today's situation with crappy and overpriced services will remain. He basically tells the press that "yeah, these people don't understand the mobile market and won't survive for long" if it threatens today's hegemony.

One specific example is the rise of software on mobiles that can browse the web instead of the customer being force fed what the operator wants him to. John Strand is using his influence to claim that companies that offer such solutions will never survive because they operate outside the "mobile food chain".

John Strand and his ilk are basically trying to maintain today's situation because overpriced mobile services are a good thing to them. It's a mobile market they know, and they are making good money by just being "consultants".

So yeah, mobile services suck and are over priced. Software like real web browsers is arriving to give the customer an actual choice and make it cheaper, but on the other hand, corrupt "analysts" like John Strand are doing everything they can to stop this more customer friendly development, and really fight to keep today's system with customer lock-in and over priced services.

Re:Why is the mobile market so expensive?

[JaredOfEuropa]

Because mobiles have traditionally had very limited software capabilities, they have been able to charge outrageous sums for mobile services. Instead of browsing the web you'll be browsing some specialized service with content created specifically for mobiles.

Do you mean WAP? I agree it is somewhat limited, mainly because of the limited memory, keyboard and displays of mobile phones. IIRC, WAP is actually just toned-down HTML with some extra protocols. But anyone can create content, and my provider (Orange) at least do not limit access to these. A number of newspapers have WAP pages alongside their regular ones, and services like Google and Yahoo are available on WAP as well. Most of the premium stuff like traffic info and route finders offered by providers, can be had for free elsewhere. The best thing is that I pay only a few Euros a month for data access, but all my WAP browsing is free!

The one service that I still find greatly overpriced is direct (non-WAP) data transfer. On GPRS, usage is charged by the MB since the connection is always-on. Typical fees here range from 1,5 Euro/MB (Telfort), 3 Euro/MB (Orange) to an unbelievable 7,5 Euro/MB (KPN).

My question is: how on earth can the hope to sell these shiny new broadband 3G phones, if we are to download all that "exiting new music and movie content" to the tune of 7,5 Euro/MB? Perhaps you are right again... since these days my phone/PDA can browse proper WWW pages after a fashion, they'll charge me an arm and a leg just to encourage me to stay on WAP.

Blasted Ring Tones

[MrNonchalant]

I don't know about anybody else here, but I imagine I'm far from the only one who would love to see those blasted things continue to have artificially inflated prices.

Re:Blasted Ring Tones

[doradox]

Don't that say it all.

Doradox

Mine.

[Anonymous Coward]

I picked "Oh Canada" I am not from Canada. I get weird looks. Mosty folks who don't follow Hockey or Baseball never hear it.

Pay for a ringtone? Yea right.

Re:Is it just me...

[BigBlockMopar]

I mean, come on, they are selling crappy midi files for outrageous (comparatively) prices.

I have no problem with companies selling the ringtones at whatever the market will bear, as long as there's no collusion.

What I have a problem with, is any idiot who butchers *any* piece of music by playing it through a 1.5" diameter piezoelectric speaker. Even rap "music" deserves more respect than that.

It's bad enough that I have to cope with cellphones ringing everywhere I go, but it's worse still when it's another anime-loving dimwitted 17-year-old whose cellphone is playing Britney Spears' Toxic from the back of a Hello Kitty schoolbag, or some poseur with a 3-series BMW who wants to appear cultured with a rousing rendition of the 1812 Overture.

I hope every single person with a ringtone on his or her cellphone contracts inoperable colon cancer.

I never paid...

[ImaLamer]

Don't search for "Free Ringtones" because you can only find pages with text that says "Free Ringtones**".
Usually with disclaimers at the bottom of the page like: **Free Ringtones by opening your phone and letting them out.

Try this site, went to check if it still worked and voila! Getting "Star Wars Theme".

I wonder which it is because I already have both of my cell phones set to "Imperial March" (been there for over year, had Super Mario Brothers Theme for a few weeks).

Check out their XXX text messages too. They include classics such as:

Id fuck u sitting
id fuck u lying,
if u were a bird id fuck u flying.
And when ur dead and long forgotten
ill dig u up and fuck u rotten

I've only used the TDMA (monophonic) tones from this site but they always worked, and sounded good.

Jeez...

[MarkMcLeod]

Full song on iTunes: $.99

30 second clip of "similar" song made with high pitched tones: $3+

Getting raped by your cellular provider: Priceless.

Yeah, you're missing something.

[JNighthawk]

Profit - yeah, bad joke. A lot of cell phones don't support MP3. A lot of people don't connect their phones to computer. Those that do may not use USB. They might use IR or Bluetooth. You're missing a lot.

Re:Yeah, you're missing something.

[kahei]

Here's a nickel, son -- buy yourself a proper phone.

*presses nickel into grubby outstretched hand*

Re:Yeah, you're missing something.

[JNighthawk]

Mmm, except that I don't have a cell phone. I have a cordless home phone that works plenty well enough, thanks.

While people pay for bleeps and bloops......

[Anonymous Coward]

Millions of people are on the streets, homeless,
including the United States. That 2 billion can
go to much better uses than crappy MIDI files.

Cartels

[ImaLamer]

"gentlemanly cooperation" is seen as a way to maintain safe sales levels for everyone, while going for the jugular on external (overseas) sales

Just for clarification this is referred to as a "cartel" in economics terms.

OPEC, the RIAA, the Cali (cocaine) Cartel, all the same.

Definition of cartel from my economics text (from the glossary):

A form of oligopoly characterized by collusion; intended to increase profits, but illegal in the United States.

From the actual text:

The objective of a cartel is to increase price to the profit-maximizing monopoly price. The higher price implies a smaller output, which must be allocated among members of the cartel.

Basically the group gets together and decides that they will compete but not enough to put each other at risk. No one member can do something that would be harmful to the group.

For example, this is the reason that OPEC collectively controls oil output and not just one OPEC country. They decide together what is in the best interest of them all, creating unfair prices for the rest of the world as suplus is un-naturally replaced with deficit. (as opposed to an equilibrium being struck on its own)

Really bad joke ...

[Anonymous Coward]

They have to find the ringleaders ...

Bubble Burster (sorry)

[ImaLamer]

I love Kashmir too but a quick Google search tells you that many other people have it too. Albeit in the form of "Come With Me" by Puff Daddy.

True, it's not "the" Kashmir, but it sounds the same coming from a phone which plays midi files.

(Likely because it is the same though too).

Just make your own

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing with the Japanese ring tones recently is that it's not just a crappy MIDI file, you can actually get real audio files on most of the cell phones. I have an old(ish) DoCoMo P504i and recently found out that it actually supported these audio files, which I had always assumed was just for the most recent phones.

But I wasn't interested in paying the insanely high prices for a low-sample clip of some song, especially since I have my phone on silent mode for most of the time. But just for the heck of it, I tried making my own, and found out that it was really easy. Just use wav2mld which will convert a .wav file into a .mld file. Upload the .mld file to some server, type in the URL in your cellphone and download it! Pretty darn easy. The wav2mld software costs 900yen (about US$8.00 or so) if you want to make clips longer than 2 seconds, which I figure is fair. The software works really well and automatically creates a file for about 10 different models, automatically adjusting volume levels etc. along with some kinks that some phones have.

Ringtones will go the way of the hip-pack

[michaelmalak]

One of my side hobbies is making people feel old by reminding them of past events that seemed like yesterday. I remember in 1995 saying to someone, "remember the early 90's with hip-packs? We're in the mid-nineties now."

I think I'll be saying the same thing about ringtones in 2006. At the office, it used to be a game to show off ringtones in a meeting -- all phones were left on. But that's gotten old, and so now they're all on vibrate. Of course the rules are looser in social situations, but I think it'll get old there too -- think restaurants, movies, even at-home DVD movies.

Besides staleness, I believe ringtones are an anachronism because:

1. The concept of a telephone ringing is from the 20th century where one had to run to the phone, rather than the phone being a personal borg-like appliance.
2. Cell phones are getting smaller all the time, so it's not as likely for one to, for example, leave it at the office desk and walk around the office.

What I see more likely is the cell phone replacing the iPod, but of course it's going to take some innovative hardware manufacturer to push this; the music industry is too laggard and reticent.

Re:Ringtones will go the way of the hip-pack

[Anonymous Coward]

Well here in 2004 we already have phones that replace the ipod. Ever heard of n-gage? MP3,FM Tuner, XHTML browsing, blue tooth wireless gameplay, oh yea and you can use game cartridges.

The often asked question these days....

[wing03]

Government raiding corporate offices?

Dear or dear, what does that say to business?

That's just contrary to a free market system where market conditions are what should rightfully dictate to corporations what prices should be.

Bullshit!

Is it me or is it that any time in North America, where busines activities are curtailed by societal interests, the business community comes out swinging with the words of "what are they saying to business?".

As far as I am concerned and I'm a business owner too.... The message to business should be to play fair, don't be greedy and respect the world you're making a living in.

Re:The often asked question these days....

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't the "business owners" perse, but the Libertarian/Republican Dog-Eat-Dog/Survival-Of-The-Fittest idiots that think businesses should do whatever they want to do, even if it's murder.

Who cares?

[shutdown -p now]

Sane people, I mean. Why would you even need to change the ringtone? You can't do it on a normal phone, and I didn't hear anyone complain.

Re:Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but with a cellphone you can download the sound of someone complaining ...

Stupidest Raid Ever.

[mumblestheclown]

The idea that you can have a monopoly on ringtones that the government should care about is patently stupid.

Let's say you owned the rights to all of the yellow tulips in the world. If you charged $1 billion each, should the government break down your doors and accuse you of price fixing?

Of course not. If you get the rights to all of the yellow tulips, all other colors of tulips are still available. For that matter, tulips compete against other flowers, etc.

Likewise, ringtones compete for your entertainment dollar along with countless other entertainment sources (psst--audio CDs too). To price them at anything but near what the market will accept is just stupid.

Now, that said (and I didn't RTFA) I'm guessing that this article is not about monopoly, but rather a price-fixing cartel like scheme. Big deal. Same rule applies. Dont buy ringtones if the price doesn't suit you.

meaning of polyphonic

[Anonymous Coward]

from reading through the comments, it's painfully obvious that so many of you have no idea what the word "polyphonic" means. you seem to think it's the ability to play mp3s or whatnot from your phone. in fact, it's simply means the phone can generate two or more tones at once, hence giving it the ability to play some of the more complex midi files out there... /rant

I for one...

[Anonymous Coward]

...welcome our new ringtone overlords.

Why Not Create Your Own with Ringtone Tools?

[nz17]

http://ringtonetools.mikekohn.net/ has a great little F/OSS program called Ringtone Tools for generating your own ringtones from a variety of different formats for a cavalcade of phone models. The program (Ringtone Tools) runs on Windows, DOS, and *nix'es, with source fully available, and some purchasable PHP and Java versions. Really nice tool, I've used it to translate Nokia text ringtones into ones for my Motorola t120.

Yes, that's right, older cell phone models used to actually let you type the ringtones directly into them, without special software or cables, though that option has always seemingly been available for these types. Very nice, economical solution for those of us who want custom or special ringtones but not enough to pay a high price for them. Besides, it's not like these companies are making anime ringtones (Go Totoro!) available anyway.

It amazes me

[fermion]

that the same people who would never play a boom box in a public place, and would consider anyone who did ghetto, feel it is not only appropriate but necessary to randomly assault strangers with their vile taste in muzak.

The basics of manners are fundamental principles, not individual rules that must be torturously recompiled every time technology changes. I hear people complain all the time about the rap and hard rock and the like blaring from peoples cars and stereos. Well, if you want to help it stop, set an example. Don't subject the world to the din of Kenny G. Put your phone on the least offensive short ring, and when in a quiet place, put it on vibrate. You are more than welcome use the music when in the company of your gullible and easily impress technologically retarded friends. The rest of us know that is just a cry for attention. Get a life.

Re:It amazes me

[Halfbaked Plan]

Well, since a law can't be passed that permits people to be sprayed with permanent orange dye that marks them as stupid fucks without a clue, it's important for temporary markers like a ringtone to be not only permitted, but to be encouraged.

How else are the rest of us to quickly identify and avoid said persons?

Sprint users need not pay for NUFFIN

[djdrew6k]

For anyone using Sprint phones - I've never payed a single cent for ringtones or images on my phone, barring the cost per K for sending the raw data to my phone (somewhere in the realm of a few cents per K).

You can go to www.sprintusers.com, and using their Focus Uploader, you can send a JPG, PNG, QCP, or MID file directly from the internet (or from your computer, through the net) to your phone through a text message. This works with anyone using Sprint service. I love it.

I've tried looking for "real" ringtones, by going to ringtone websites or searching for "free ringtones" (which ALWAYS leads to sites asking you to pay for them... wtf?), but I've found that almost every time I could find a free, HIGHER QUALITY tone if I simply searched the web for MIDI files, totally ignoring the whole "ringtone" aspect of the search.

Heard of bars being contacted by ASSCRAP?

[tepples]

Nah, I'm just going to record myself singing!

No. In countries that have adopted the various WIPO treaties, such as Japan and the United States, you need a license from a performance rights organization to perform the songs in public, no matter who performed them. Performance rights organizations, such as BMI, SESAC, and ASCAP, answer to music publishers and songwriters, not to record labels.

It's a public performance

[tepples]

there is no reason to pay just to format shift the music you already have to a ringtone.

The owner of copyright in a musical work (that is, a song, no matter who sings it) has the exclusive right to authorize public performances of that work. Every time your phone rings playing a copyrighted ring tone, that's a public performance.

Re:It's a public performance

[Facekhan]

You are really reaching there. By that logic playing my stereo loud enough for my neighbors to hear it or having a boombox on the beach is a public performance. In fact even having headphones on and having it loud enough for the person sitting next to you on the plane to hear the song could be a public performance by that logic.

Its a rare thing to be so wrong.

Public performance

[tepples]

The difference is that an iTunes Music Store purchased recording doesn't come with public performance rights to the underlying song.

Ringtones - the killer app for mobile phones

[weedenbc]

The whole hype surrounding ringtones makes me laugh because they are basically the only "killer app" for modern mobile phones, at least here in the US where text messaging hasn't caught on like in Japan and the EU. All this hype about smart phones and 3G networks and prices of $100+ for a phone and the most used user feature is custom ringtones? How sad is that? So with ringtones being the only service that people actually want and use of course the cell phone companies will make it as difficult as possible to do without paying an arm and a leg to do it their way.

Re:Ringtones - the killer app for mobile phones

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the killer app for mobile phones in America is communication, you idiot.

Stupid friends

[MacFury]

or are almost all telephone ringtones *overpriced*. I mean, come on, they are selling crappy midi files for outrageous (comparatively) prices.

I have a friend who says, "$0.99 for a song from iTunes??? I'd never pay that much!" Then she happily blows $20 a month at $1.25 a piece on stupid god damn ringtones for her cellphone.

Wouldn't the second part of this problem be...

[Mythrix]

...that people actually use those services even though it's expensive?

In this case, Monopoly=Good

[Safety Cap]

I think ringtones should be $300 each.

Then maybe people will start using the VIBRATE mode, instead of the cry-for-attention, I-am-teh-5uX ringtone mode.

Re:Is it just me...

[Halfbaked Plan]

I was hoping for a good solid denunciation of Ring Tones here in the discussion.

Thank you.

Re:Is it just me...

[Glonoinha]

This is the most caustic, evil, angry thing I have ever seen on SlashDot all day (it's pretty early though) - and I agree with you 100%. Thanks for using all the big words for me because I haven't had any caffeine yet - but yea : a ringtone on their phone is the aural equivalent to typing HI U R 2 CUTE. DO U WANT 2 PLAY??? 1 4M H0T!!!!1!1

True, but how will they enforce it?

[BillX]

Record exec> We got hold of your browsing history and found out you downloaded a copyrighted ringtone on 2004-08-12. We subpoenaed your phone records and found your phone has rung 26 times since then. We estimate an average of 15 people heard the ringtone each time, for a total royalty fee of...

Me> Public? Prove that I was in public, and not just sitting alone up in my room reading Slashdot everytime the phone rang. It rang in my pants pocket and serenaded my left nut and my right nut. But they don't have ears.

Re:True, but how will they enforce it?

[tepples]

It wouldn't be a record exec but rather a music publisher exec, but anyway:

Me> Public? Prove that I was in public

Publisher exec> When we subpoenaed your phone records, the phone company provided triangulations showing the closest street address to your phone every time it rang, and 14 of those 26 rings occurred in a public place as defined by copyright law. We figured this into our figure of 15 mean listeners per ring. How about we settle this for $$$, or we can take you to court and win up to $$$$ or more in statutory damages. Now what do you say?

expensive tones? 3gupload!

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not affiliated with this company, but for $6 a year I can upload my own files/download anything from the library of tones/pics/java apps.. /coward

Here! here!

[ashitaka]

I have two ring tones:

1) Soft, pleasant chime for when the wife calls.
2) Real old 50's telephone bell ring for everything else.

When my phone rings I want it to sound like a phone and not have everyone surrounding me look at me like "WTF is that trash music??"

Re:Here! here!

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, I have the same setup for when your wife calls.

Has someone got a patent on music, then?

[cardpuncher]

Last time I checked, there was nothing stopping people composing their own music.

The record companies may be greedy monopolistic talent processors and their tactics akin to legalised gangsterism, but their product is not critical to life. If you're sufficient of an idiot to pay for "personalised" phone covers and ringtones, you deserve exploiting.

Learn to "personalise" it yourself, rather than borrowing someone else's personality.

Where's the subscription model?

[michaelmalak]

The cell phone has such potential to replace the radio and act as a time-shifting Personal Audio Recorder, but it's not quite there yet. One should be able to browse, puchase, and download MP3s -- both music and talk shows -- from a cell phone at any time. And when broadband wireless (aka 3G) is finally made available to cell phones in the U.S., cell phones could replace both FM and XM.

For amplification, interfaces to car radios would be commonplace -- cassette adapters or FM broadcast.

All of this could be done today (except for the high speed wireless real-time audio streaming) if only a manufacturer would introduce the hardware and subscription model, as Apple did with the iPod. Even the high speed wireless portion could be done today in San Diego an Washington, DC if a manufacturer would just take advantage of the existing 1x-EVDO networks there.

This is just a warning shot -- Really masking DRM

[turtleshadow]

If the Japanese government is going after ring tones it would only be a friendly warning shot that the other behavior of the firms is growing beyond "acceptable" norms. This is a public concession. Acceptable norms means they got greedy and are threatening exposure of the cartel's other devious money grubbing activities.

What about the Japanese music copywrite holders are doing behind the scenes is striving 24x7x365 to ensure every piece of music or audio or video is DRM'ed and you WILL HAVE TO license it.

They cartel to control the music distribution via technology. The reason Minidisc hasn't hit the US is because CD's were such a huge cash-cow that no none wanted to take on Sony; nor did Sony want to kill its own cash cow. This is irregardless of the quality etc. It was about the money and ownership.

In 5 years you won't find analog in/out on anything from Japan, the cartels will have eliminated that.

Yes I am paranoid but this is the trend I see

Article incorrect

[achurch]

. . . or, rather, misleading. It's not "ring tones" in the MIDI sense, but actual MP3 clips of songs that are the subject of the raid.

In Japan, anyone is allowed to make and sell MIDI-style ring tones as long as they pay a usage fee to the copyright office. This fee is then paid back to the original authors of the song--but not to the record labels. There are something like 200 companies producing ring tones now, and the labels get nothing out of any of them.

So when the next wave--ring songs, for lack of a better term; MP3 (or similarly encoded) digital sound--came around, the labels got greedy. Since they own the copyrights on the actual recordings, they decided not to let anyone but their own group companies sell clips from the songs. The Fair Trade Commission decided that this was unfair use of monopoly, and thus the raid.

1. public; 2. private.

[tepples]

By that logic playing my stereo loud enough for my neighbors to hear it or having a boombox on the beach is a public performance.

Copyright law may support this conclusion, and music publishers may milk it.

In fact even having headphones on and having it loud enough for the person sitting next to you on the plane to hear the song could be a public performance by that logic.

However, copyright law does not support this conclusion, as a substantial number of persons (as defined by case law) are not within earshot.

it's very easy

[Doppler00]

I make my own ringtones all the time with MP3s or Oggs. All I you need to do is open up the song, convert it to 16KHz, 8bit mono WAV format, and then upload it via bluetooth to your phone phone. I do this all the time with my Nokia 3660. Sure it take a little bit of time, but it's a lot better than paying a silly $1.50 fee or whatever for a ring tone, especially if all you get is a ugly sounding MIDI file.

Re:Is it just me...

[realdpk]

My phone (Treo 600) doesn't have regular ringers on it. They're all annoying. I miss the old crappy sound chips they had in the older phones. My current ring tone is a repeating "beep" that unfortunately does not sound like a pager.

No iTunes here - got MIDI though

[jarsyl]

AFAIK iTunes is still not available here in Japan. Fortunately I don't need to pay anything if I can get my desired ringtone in MIDI. A little conversion to my Mitsubishi phone's similar format and voila- I've got the tune of my choice. It's currently the Japan Railways default "train is about to depart" tune, FYI.

Re:A ring-tone sure to be a hit!!!

[Zorilla]

I've actually heard that come from somebody's phone before. That and one that goes, "Holy shit!"

Western Electric 300 and 500

[sulli]

These are not hard to get at garage sales and antique shops. The bells usually work fine.

But I agree with you. Ring tones are the spawn of Satan. I always keep my phone on vibrate only - it's polite and non-annoying.

Unlocking cell phones

[ajna]

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/3935
http://www .uniquephones.com/unlock/index.php

I unlocked my Nokia 3650 last night using the second site's unlock code generator. Make sure to read the instructions and not make typos as you only get a limited number of attempts before the phone locks itself down, so to speak, after which only professionals with a cable can unlock the unit.

Why Voice Announcement Instead of Gleeping?

[OldeClegg]

Now that these annoying phones can actually play music to announce calls, why not just go all the way and have them play a voice announcement?

"Hey, big boy, call for you," in a melodious fem voice, for example. Or, "Master, a minion desires your ear," stage whispered out of the annoying instrument.

Re:rediculous

[Anonymous Coward]

no, what's "rediculous" is that people on slashdot still can't spell. The word comes from the root "Ridicule!" for god's sake!

Re: High Prices in Japan

[Anonymous Coward]

I never really got this.. people always complain about how high prices are in Japan... but it seems to me somewhat a myth, after having lived there.

It's true, there aren't rock-bottom prices many places..

But think about a consumer in the US:
There are:
a.) The type of people who shop at wall-mart, buy all generic brands, drink kool-aid, etc.
b.) The type of people who buy decent stuff, drink real juice, wouldn't want a scratch-and-dent model, etc.

In the US, a lot of people will sacrifice a lot of quality to save a little money - i.e. we have a lot of type A consumers. In Japan, 99% of the consumers are type B. So there aren't many offerings tailored towards type A consumers. If you look at everything from a Type A perspective, it's all expensive. If you bought Decent stuff in the USA, then you will find it isn't much different.

For example, if you want to buy an electric razor in the US, you will see them randing from $40 or $60 to like $300 or more. In Japan, you will see most of them starting above $100.. why? Because the piece of crap $60 ones didn't sell very well. They weren't a good investment anyway and actually cost more in the long run when you have to replace them every few months.

Japanese consumers like quality, and quality is expensive - it's that simple.

Another problem is that people seem to like to compare the prices in Toyko to prices in like.. Montana. Well duh.. If you want to compare prices, compare Tokyo to Manhatten or some place remotely comparable.

One of my friends went to an reasonable restaurant in Tokyo and said "It was $50 to eat dinner with my friend!".. mm hmm.. about the same as any half-way decent restaurant in Philly or NYC...

To be sure, some things are overpriced in Japan in general, but some things are cheaper too. Ever check out a dollar store in Japan? They have stuff that's like $5 in K-mart here.

Re:This is just a warning shot -- Really masking D

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes perhaps, you won't find analog in/out, but that will be more a natural progression of technology. Yes, there will be digital in.out, and that will be progress (right now everyone bitches because most MD decks don't have a digital out!) Yes, they will have copy protection, but it will be easily defeatable, and you will be able to make higher quality copies than you can now.

Oh goody!

[CaptainZapp]

i rather have midi files. as long as those are not the "top 10" from last week...

So I gather that Led Zeppelins Kashmir qualifies...

Re:Oh goody!

[timerider]

i shamefully admit that i dont know that one, but on a cellular with a decent midi chip, led zeppelin is defenitely the right direction.

Re:Oh goody!

[Thuktun]

So I gather that Led Zeppelins Kashmir qualifies...

At least that's one song where the opening melody is a memorable riff.

I hate the fact that nearly every song I'd like to have as a ringtone has been created such that only the completely unrecognizable first 7-8 seconds of the song has been used. The good, recognizable part of the song, which I'd want to hear when the phone rang, is skipped in favor of a polyphonic representation of the opening drumbeats or something equally pointless.