Posted by
michael
on from the wi-fi-all-the-way dept.
rookie1 writes "According to this article and this, Ericsson has shut down its Bluetooth division. Ericsson has not made any formal announcement. Considering SonyEricsson is a major supporter of Bluetooth technology, will this have a huge impact on its adoption?"
From TFA: "Although Ericsson will continue its involvement in the Bluetooth Special Interest Group as a promoter of the technology, Akesson said, 'We will no longer develop new hardware or new IPs based on the Bluetooth specification.' Ericsson also won't pursue new chip customers for Bluetooth technology licensing."
Could someone explain to me how telling the world you're no longer interested in developing the technology or finding people to license it to is a method of "promoting" Bluetooth?
To my knowledge, the word "promoter" means someone in the second line of development. Either someone funding, or advertising it.
For example, a promoter of art is usually some rich guy, not necessarily the poor chap, who actually paints the pictures.
-- "Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
Re:Promoting?
by
ElForesto
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· Score: 4, Interesting
I think what they're trying to say is that with Bluetooth being standardized, they're perfectly happy to depend on 3rd-party manufacturers to make the peripherals. I imagine this is a way for them to focus on their core business and not get too involved in something ancilliary to it.
-- There is a difference between "insightful" and "inciteful" other than spelling.
Re:Promoting?
by
watanuki
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· Score: 3, Informative
"Promoter" is a membership level (the highest one, Ericsson did came up with the technology after all) of the Bluetooth SIG, and this seems to be the context of the quote.
Also notice that it says "chip" customers. The 2nd article mentioned Ericsson will still do software development.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. The article states that Ericsson will no longer be making products for the semiconductor market- ie, they will no longer be making Bluetooth CHIPS. It has probably become more economical for Ericsson to buy said bluetooth chips from other (probably Chinese or Taiwanese) vendors and integrate them into their mobile devices instead of producing the chips they integrate themselves.
And this is nothing but a good thing, as it means that the Bluetooth implementations have become uniform to the point that Ericsson can trust other manufacturers to make the chips that they use.
While the majority of the comments for this article seem to be ringing the death-knell for Bluetooth or at least proclaiming that Ericsson has lost faith in the technology, you correctly show that this couldn't be further from the truth.
Might not be bad
by
attaboy
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· Score: 5, Interesting
From the News.com.com article:
Ericsson doesn't plan to continue design and development around Bluetooth, but it will continue to support existing customers and include it in products, the company representative said. Bluetooth technology efforts will be incorporated into the work of Ericsson's Mobile Platforms group.
Glass Half Full Interpretation: Maybe this means that Bluetooth has become so simple to implement that they don't need a dedicated development team anymore. It seems that Bluetooth is cropping up in all sorts of CE devices. BT chips and control sets are becoming more and more standardized. For Ericsson, the hard work of developing tie-ins to their phone OS is already done. This could be a good sign, rather than a bad one, for Bluetooth in general.
I'm a little fuzzy on the relationship between Ericsson and SonyEricsson. Not sure if the former will impact the phones of the latter.
-- The facts have a liberal bias. --The Daily Show
Re:Might not be bad
by
romper
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I'm a little fuzzy on the relationship between Ericsson and SonyEricsson.
Also, what's the relationship of Sony to SonyEricsson? I've had a lot of frustration with Sony and Bluetooth support in the USA.
For example, I own a Sony TR laptop. Great machine, but you can't buy it *without* Bluetooth in Japan, and yet it's not even an option here in the States.
This kind of attitude doesn't seem limited to just Sony. I love Bluetooth and if given a choice between two devices will typically choose the one with Bluetooth (unless it's a toaster oven or something). =) Yet I don't know that I'm seeing much more support for it here. Is that destined to change?
(Trying to come back to the topic): Many comments here state that this might not be a bad thing and that SonyEricsson is just shifting its Bluetooth program to another division or whatever, but how is this going to be viewed by the consumer market as a whole?
Won't people just think Bluetooth is going away?
-- Right is wrong when left is right.
Re:Might not be bad
by
shaka
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· Score: 4, Informative
I'm a little fuzzy on the relationship between Ericsson and SonyEricsson.
Also, what's the relationship of Sony to SonyEricsson? I've had a lot of frustration with Sony and Bluetooth support in the USA.
Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications was established in 2001 by telecommunications leader Ericsson and consumer electronics powerhouse Sony Corporation. The company is equally owned by Ericsson and Sony.
-- :wq!
Re:Might not be bad
by
PhotoBoy
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· Score: 2, Funny
I would guess this means the end of their "quirky" Bluetooth products like the Bluetooth remote controlled car (here) or the chat pen (here).
Re:Might not be bad
by
Hast
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· Score: 2, Informative
If you notice those are developed by SonyEricsson. That is a different company (although AFAIK completely owned by Ericsson and Sony) and the people working at Ericsson have very little (or rather nothing) to do with people working at SE.
Eg, Ericsson make mobile hardware platforms, the stuff that is inside a mobile phone, and sell it to different phone companies. They then make a phone around that (and add stuff). SonyEricsson is one of those companies.
Ericsson also make and sell Bluetooth systems for integration into Bluetooth products. Other companies that does this are Widcomm and CSR. (CSR being the biggest IIRC.)
It is SonyEricsson that make the car and stuff. I recon they intend to keep on doing that.
I always like the idea of Bluetooth, though I'm afraid I saw this coming. I don't know why it was never adopted on a wider scale, but I certainly hope that other short distance wireless technologies (like WUSB) do take off. It would be nice to have a desktop with no wires except for power.
Re:Lame
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Bluetooth has really taken off in the mobile phone market; it is a must-have checklist item for high end phones.
Its very handy for hands-free, including headsets, and interaction with luxury cars.
Surely a rhetorical question....
by
general_re
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· Score: 2, Funny
Considering SonyEricsson is a major supporter of Bluetooth technology, will this have a huge impact on its adoption?"
Ummm....yes? Just a guess, but what the hell...
-- ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
No effect at all. JVC invented the VHS standard, it's small market share was not signifigant in it's adoption. Phillips invented the redbook audio CD, it's influence is miniscule today, or even 15 years ago.
Ericsson not REALLY pulling out...
by
BTWR
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· Score: 4, Insightful
From the article:
Further advancements in Bluetooth technology will be made by the Special Interest Group, which consists of a number of companies with ties to the technology. Ericsson will remain a part of that group.
So it seems that Ericsson is perhaps just diverting their bluetooth division to one of it's subsidiaries/subdivisions. After all, SonyEricsson is one of the main Bluetooth supporters. This may just be overpanic...
Bluetooth is not dying (ignore Netcraft)
by
plover
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· Score: 4, Informative
Well, according to both of the articles it's the research team that created Bluetooth, and the technologies around it. They are not the group that is responsible for incorporating Bluetooth into the other products.
It could be as simple as "the standard has been set, the goals have been accomplished, move on to new things." Since Ericsson is no longer the sole creative force behind Bluetooth, it makes financial sense to not keep 125 people employed to argue one seat on the Bluetooth Special Interest Group.
It's too bad for Bluetooth in that I think Ericsson had some brilliant visionaries doing this work, and that those people are no longer focused on Bluetooth. However, they're being incorporated into other units which can only help them overall.
It's not good news, it's not bad news. It's just news. The timing is interesting as I see Bluetooth now on the cusp of adoption by every cell phone maker for their mid- and possibly even low-end phones.
( And Michael, wi-fi is not necessarily a good replacement for Bluetooth. The higher power requirements for wi-fi mean shorter battery life, which is death for cell phones. And Bluetooth incorporates discovery protocols which are all geared toward personal networking, not internet networking. I think wi-fi would be a really chatty way to accomplish those goals, again at the expense of battery life. )
-- Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
I doubt it...
by
Philosinfinity
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· Score: 4, Interesting
I doubt this will affect bluetooth's ability to enter the mainstream. In fact, I never quite understood the need for bluetooth in your cellphone (aside from cellphone PDA type devices). Wireless headphones are nice, but is this really what I want to use bluetooth for?
Rather, I think that the PC perhipheral market is what will ultimately drive bluetooth. Think about it. Truely wireless keyboards, mice, modems, printers, etc. are so beneficial for end users. Bluetooth's future is in "untangling the PC" not the convienence of wireless cell phone headsets and small PC to cellphone data transfers.
Re:I doubt it...
by
kev0153
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· Score: 2, Informative
I use my bluetooth enabled phone to synch my address books. It is so much easier typing contact info on a real keyboard and then moving it to the phone. I also use my phone as a modem. I can establish a wireless connection between my GPRS/Bluetooh enabled phone and my Powerbook and surf the internet. Not at any blazing speeds (yet) but as long as I can get a GPRS signal I have an internet connection at my disposal.
Re:I doubt it...
by
plover
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· Score: 3, Interesting
How about a wireless speakerphone in your car? With a Bluetooth handsfree kit, you can just hop in your car and go. Your car and your phone recognize each other as you turn on the ignition, and your car says "I'm going to be your headset now."
It's been discussed having Bluetooth "silencers" installed at movie theatres, concert venues, and restaurants. They'd be a simple Bluetooth device that would request your phone switch to a silent profile for the next hour or two. If you were an anti-social jerk, you could turn such a thing off. But as we know from lots of experience, most people won't be bothered to change their default settings. It's not a complete solution to the problem of cell phone ringers in auditoriums, but every phone call silenced makes for a more pleasant experience for all.
The nice thing is that all of the features you mention with respect to PC usage can quite peacably coexist with the cell phone usage. Both ends can drive the market simultaneously, and as more crossover functionality becomes possible, consumer demand will drive more adoption. We're already seeing this with digital camera phones exchanging pictures with PCs. And laptops are able to use the Bluetooth equipped phones for network access.
Bluetooth was the sole reason I purchased a T637 phone earlier this summer. I really didn't care about the camera (crappy quality pictures) nor about the Java in the phone. I wanted my Palm Tungsten to be able get to the internet occasionally, and I now have that. But I also have the option to have a speaker kit in my car (I suppose this will wait 'til Christmas), to exchange address and phone data with my desktop, and opens up all sorts of possibilities.
-- John
Re:I doubt it...
by
dave420
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· Score: 2, Interesting
You've missed the point here, somewhat. Bluetooth isn't used for high-bandwidth purposes, as that's not what it's designed for. It's designed to be tiny, cheap and low-power. You can include it in a device for a buck or two, which is a lot cheaper than any other wireless I can think of (except IrDA, of course;)).
It's used to sync small amounts of data, send short messages, sporadic control IO (keyboards/etc), voice streams, etc. It's used to link PDAs/PCs/notebooks to cellphones for GPRS/G3 internet access, and (as you said) headsets (which is missing the bigger picture - we're talking about any audio in/out device, computer speakers/mics included), not forgetting fax/printing services.
It's most definitely not going anywhere, and its adoption will increase rapidly, especially when Windows gets its act together and has a decent BT stack. WIDCOMM is cool, but it looks like crap and doesn't work with everything. The macs have BT down.
Just because you can't see a use for it, doesn't mean it's useless and should go away. I can't think of a good reason to own a mass spectrometer or a soldering iron, but that doesn't mean they're useless and should be disposed of immediately.
Zigbee!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Who licenses bluetooth?
by
kzinti
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· Score: 2, Interesting
From the article: Ericsson is pulling the plug on its technology licensing unit, the wholly-owned subsidiary which invented Bluetooth wireless technology and became the driving force behind the company's Bluetooth initiative.... Ericsson also won't pursue new chip customers for Bluetooth technology licensing.
So was Ericsson, as the inventor of Bluetooth, the only licensing authority, or has it granted/sold that authority to others?
Re:Bluetooth is dead
by
erick99
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Bluetooth is one of the those "solutions in search of a problem." It's a cool idea but not enough people actually buy things because it has bluetooth. The short range may have something to do with it. It's sort of an orphan technology for lack of a better term?
Cheers,
Erick
-- http://www.busyweather.com/
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
mccalli
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· Score: 5, Informative
When was the last time you used a Bluetooth-enabled device to do anything useful?
Well, admittedly typing this reply on a bluetooth keyboard might not count as useful, so I'll have to go for an hour ago when I used it transfer photos. Before that I'd have to stretch a whole two hours ago when I used the built-in bluetooth on this Powerbook to communicate with a bluetooth mobile in order to send an SMS. And before that, it would be about five hours ago when I synchronised my address books. Without taking the phone out of my pocket.
Enough yet? Or shall I cast my memory as far back as this morning to dig out some more usage?
Cheers,
Ian
Bluetooth adoption
by
agristin
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· Score: 3, Insightful
In spite of Ericsson pulling out, I think Bluetooth adoption will speed up. Maybe they are getting out of the game at the right time for them, sometimes the money is in a product before commodification.
The reason I think Bluetooth adoption will speed up is it is on most of the Apple pc products now. That happened with USB also. At that time PS/2 (or adb) was still the favorite connector for keyboards and mice, now on Mac and many PC's USB is the way.
As a further prognostication, I think Bluetooth could be the high end mouse/keyboard/PDA/cell phone connector of choice down the road. While USB is handy, the new iMac shows that lacking a swarm of cables can be a nice feature.
I cant say much about why they are dropping the unit but us useful to know that SonyEriccson has had some trouble with the t608 Bluetooth phone (used on the sprint network). Part of it was them "obtaining" some technology from qualcomm, To the t608 being a bluetooth phone with some interesting bugs
Eericsson shifted the bleutooth work to a difrferent division folks..no stopping bluetooth at ericsson but a shifting of resources..
Micahel why did you avoid reading the 2nd paragraph?
-- Don't Tread on OpenSource
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
RapmasterT
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· Score: 4, Informative
What adoption? When was the last time you used a Bluetooth-enabled device to do anything useful?
Last time? I'd guess about 5 minutes ago.
1. I use a bluetooth connection to my laptop to edit my cell phone contact list with a real keyboard.
2. I use a bluetooth headset to talk on my cell phone without a wire catching on everything.
3. I have a bluetooth GPS unit that I use map routing with my pocketpc.
4. I have a bluetooth router on my home network to provide LAN access to my pocketpc (WiFi drains the battery in about 1.5 hours, bluetooth in 5.5).
Too many people make the mistake of thinking that since THEY don't use a technology, nobody does. Bluetooth is not only gaining wide acceptance, but it's very useful as well. Short range, low power consumption is a killer combination for many many uses.
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
MrDalliard
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· Score: 2, Informative
What adoption? When was the last time you used a Bluetooth-enabled device to do anything useful?
...like using my Bluetooth enabled mobile with my PB G4 to pick up e-mail and web-browse ?
Or using a Bluetooth headset in conjunction with my phone? (As it's illegal to drive in the UK whilst holding/operating a phone in your hand ?)
I'd say that was useful.
bluetooth, dead?
by
ricochet81
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I use it- but perhaps GPS and Windows CE 3.0 isn't a significant number of devices to you. Personally, I'm waiting to get a GPS phone to start programming and testing a GPS-aware Web Browser for Windows CE- I think such a beast could be quite usefull.
-- SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Re:Bluetooth going away?
by
infra-red
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· Score: 2
Yes, if we wait long enough, there is always a better version of whatever coming along. Thats why I'm waiting for the Uberium CPU to upgrade my 386, I know it will be out sometime.
I would be very disappointed if Bluetooth went away. I just got a new laptop, with Bluetooth, synced up my Palm via Bluetooth (no more cradle needed). I'm getting a new Cell phone, and you guessed it, I want it with BlueTooth.
Living in Ontario, our options for BT enabled phones is either Rogers or Fido. Rogers is just making the switch to GSM (well, have been for a while, but not quite complete yet), and Fido only really exists in Cities with populations over 600000. Since I have yet to find a BT enabled phone on any other provider (it seems BT and GSM are tied at the hip), I'm switching networks in a month to get a GSM w/ BT phone.
Of course there will be better ways of doing this in the future, but it works for what it does, which is all that I ask of it.
Apple and Bluetooth
by
artlu
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· Score: 2, Interesting
The only reason that i purchased another Sony Ericsson phone after having the T68i was because of BlueTooth. Apple is a big supporter of Bluetooth as well so my T616 and G4 Powerbook integrated perfectly. I guess this will be my last Ericsson phone now. Time to go for the Treo 650 with bluetooth around XMAS time.
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
Enry
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· Score: 3, Informative
Sheesh. Just as I get my Mac, Linux box, and Palm T3 talking bluetooth wirelessly to my GSM phone.
Bluetooth = 802.11 but low cost, low power, low bandwidth.
I can control what devices connect to my BT devices. I can control what services on each device I want to offer. I can write SMS (text messages) from my PDA and have the phone send them.
No nearby 802.11 hotspot? No problem, go data through the phone.
I can sync the contacts on my laptop with those on my phone with those on my PDA. No more having different contacts all over the place.
There's various BT apps for PalmOS that allow you to have a small whiteboard/chat over BT. Great for meetings.
All without a wire. Not one is needed for communicating.
BT is currently languishing because Windows doesn't really support it. Linux has okay support (still needs some help) but Macs and embedded devices are doing pretty good with it.
Re:Bluetooth is dead
by
jav1231
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· Score: 2, Funny
Yeah. Put Bluetooth on the Segway with a VoIP phone and you have a hype-mobile!
Re:Bluetooth going away?
by
Smitty825
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· Score: 4, Informative
The CDMA providers/phone manufactures are just getting a clue about Bluetooth. In the US, Verizon should be selling a Bluetooth Motorola phone. Sprint has sold a Bluetooth Sony Ericsson phone (with lots of BT bugs), and Nokia has announced a CDMA flip-phone with bluetooth...
--
Doh!
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
Raptor+CK
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Well, it's sorta useful.
See, Apple makes nice hardware.
Then they screw up and put the USB ports on the left side of the Powerbook, while I'm right-handed, and like having an external mouse.
Not one to want an extra cord snaked all the way around the back ot my laptop, I took advantage of the built-in Bluetooth module and got a Bluetooth mouse.
If pointing and clicking comfortably without dealing with an external wireless transceiver is useful, then I've got your argument.
At the very least, it's kinda cool.
-- Raptor
"Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."
Why would it? What other technology can do what bluetooth can do? It doesn't really have a direct competitor. The market is just not as large as some people expected. It does not "replace wires." It removes (some) wires for people who are willing to pay extra. Most of the bluetooth products are top notch and top dollar, so they have a specific market. Adoption was limited at the start.
Re:Does it matter?
by
shaka
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Heh. It sounds as if you're American. Sony Ericsson has been doing major inroads the last year and a half or so, mostly at Nokia's expense. You see, while all of Nokia's phones look like an alien has designed them, Sony Ericsson's actually look nice, and they are almost all very feature packed.
Then again, you wouldn't know if you live in the US, since you lot have been 2-3 years behind in mobile telephony adoption for the last 10 years.
-- :wq!
Thank you Bluetooth!
by
WormholeFiend
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· Score: 2, Interesting
In typical slashdot fashion...
by
Critical_
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· Score: 4, Insightful
In typical Slashdot function, we see people sitting here typing away responses about how useless bluetooth is for wireless-whatever due to its short range. Unfortunately for those people, they never realized that bluetooth is a wire-replacement technology. When I have my cell phone on at my desk, I don't want to feel like I am sitting in a hospital ICU bed with a bunch of wires hanging off my body. Instead, my bluetooth headset takes care of that part. Also, at my current location, internet access via Edge is far more useful and cheaper than buying DSL. So it serves two purposes right there that 802.11 is too killer for. Also, sync'ing my PDA is much easier than having to drag a craddle with me everywhere. My point is that SE is only moving their bluetooth operations under another division so bluetooth is not going anywhere and I am glad. 802.11 is too power hunger for the things I need to get done. Lastly, big manufacturers such as Dell are doing away with ALL legacy ports such are IrDA, Parallel, Serial, so we are left with firewire, USB, and bluetooth. Out of those, bluetooth makes the most sense.
Not really. The speed difference is humoungous between the three. Firewire 800 trounces all, but is expensive and not omnipresent. USB 2.0 is pretty fast with its 480 MBit/sec (though FW 400 can be faster due to a better implementation) and is found in almost any (host) device. Bluetooth, with 721 Kbit/sec does not even come in close. Even with 2.1 Mbit/sec it would be a dog compared with the other too.
To top things off, FW 800 can have multiple hosts, while USB and Bluetooth are Master/Slave configurations, with the limits thereof. My BT phone can talk to other BT phones though, so it seems that they can both be master and slave at the same time, making the bluetooth spec pretty usefull in that respect.
In other words, they are quite complementary, though Firewire might only be left in specialized products in the time to come. Note that USB to Serial/Parallel convertors can be found almost anywhere. And bugger IrDA.
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
davinciII
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· Score: 2, Informative
Agreed. I love my bluetooth phone.
I love my bluetooth headset. My phone can be in my armrest in the car, and I can dial and answer by the press of a button -- with no wires.
Or if I'm on a conference call and need others to hear, I can simply make the connection to my laptop and use its microphone and speakers for my phone.
Or all of the above in the parent post.
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
sg3000
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· Score: 3, Interesting
> What adoption? When was the last time you used a Bluetooth- > enabled device to do anything useful?
Well, I clicked on "Reply to This" using my Bluetooth mouse connected to my PowerBook.
But it's arguable whether posting to Slashdot qualifies as "useful"
-- Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
NanoGator
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· Score: 2, Funny
"What adoption? When was the last time you used a Bluetooth-enabled device to do anything useful?"
I think somebody just discovered the world's population is greater than himself.
-- "Derp de derp."
Re:Bluetooth is dead
by
lidocaineus
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· Score: 4, Insightful
The short range may have something to do with it.
If you think that's a liability, you really don't understand the hallmarks of bluetooth and what its purposes are.
Bluetooth has become commoditized; it's in the hands of low-cost chip manufacturers. That makes it uninteresting for a company like Ericsson and they are better off just buying whatever BT technology they need cheaper from elsewhere. If anything, that's probably a sign of maturity of the technology.
Re:Few will miss it...
by
Maxon
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· Score: 2, Informative
802.15.4 (the protocol Zigbee is based on) does not have enough bandwidth or the QoS to perform voice communications the way Bluetooth does.
You haven't used Bluetooth have you? Or maybe you just had a bad experience. I don't know. What I do know is that Bluetooth is a feature I now regard as indespensible in my phone, pda and, soon, headphones. I won't even consider a phone, pda or laptop without it now.
My phone and PDA (nokia 6310i and Palm Tungsten T3) essentially act as one device thanks almost entirely to bluetooth. I can look up a number in my Palm, tap it and it automatically dials on my phone. But unlike a smartphone, I can leave the PDA behind if I don't need it. If I want to sync my phone or pda with my computer, I don't have to find a cable, I just do it. If I want to check email on my laptop or my pda, I connect automatically through the bluetooth modem in my phone and it's like carrying a (admittidly slow until I get an EDGE phone) wifi hotspot with me everywhere. Driving in my car? Bluetooth headset. I don't even have to pull the phone out of the bag and there are no wires needed.
At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, Bluetooth is seriously cool. It makes it very easy for devices to interact. Will something better come along one day? Sure. But in the mean time, bluetooth does the job and does it very well.
Re:God I hope not
by
ElGuapoGolf
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· Score: 4, Interesting
The problem is, I think, that you mention Bluetooth to most people, and those who have heard of it think it's Just Another Wireless Thingy. They think about 802.11b or whatever and don't see the need for bluetooth.
Then when they're with you in your car, and you get an incoming call and your stereo automagically cuts off and a message pops up on the radio display with all your caller ID info, they're confused and a little shocked. Then when you hit a button and your talking via a mic in the car, and hearing the caller come in over the speakers, they're amazed.
The PDA to cellphone via bluetooth to browse the internet, IMO, is even better than a hotspot, but to the non-techie, the car thing is like seeing into the future.
Re:Does it matter?
by
lpangelrob2
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I own a Sony Ericsson T610. So far, it hasn't had any battery problems like the AT&T cell I had a few years back, or any display problems like the Nokia cheap phones I had before this one.
It has cheap Java games on it that I could probably write better games for. It has mini golf and some random adventure game. I play both every now and then... especially the golf.
It does an okay job of organizing my contacts without bluetooth. But this is an article about bluetooth, so let me go further. My phone knows everything about my PowerBook's Address Book thanks to iSync over bluetooth. My PowerBook has sent music files to the phone via bluetooth. And it's sent back the (admittedly crappy yet cool) pictures I took of Wrigley Field when I decided to go ahead and set a pic of Wrigley as the background.
It has text messaging and WAP services, but I don't need those, so I don't pay for them or use them. If I ever need a hotspot from T-Mobile, it'll be for the PowerBook, not the phone.
This is my experience, and why I think the Ericsson I have makes an excellent phone to mark as the standard to beat for the next couple of years.
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
raikje
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I like my bluetooth phone precisely because I don't sync it very often, and I don't transfer photos very often. But when I do, it takes a couple of clicks and it's done. Never again will I spend hours hunting for a data cable, that in fact I've lent to a friend.
(typed on my bluetooth keyboard)
Re:Bluetooth going away?
by
dave420
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· Score: 4, Insightful
That's pretty funny. Do you actually know about bluetooth? It's a very small, very cheap, very low-power radio technology for low-bandwidth data. It's not meant to be a 100ft-range-gigabit-ethernet-multimedia-streaming technology, but a useful replacement for low-bandwidth cabling. Headsets, keyboards, mice, microphones, etc. It does something other wireless chipsets don't, and nothing out there at the moment (or the forseeable future) can replace it.
Here's a nice scene: You're on your PDA, and not in a wireless hotspot. You want to check your mails, so you connect to your ISP using your phone which is in your pocket. You don't have to reach for anything - the two communicate, and you instantly have GPRS to your PDA. Or, another cool scene: At work, listening to music, and you want to check your voicemails quickly. Dial the answerphone on your phone (or from your computer), and listen to the messages over your headphones, nicely mixed with some quiet music from itunes or whatever, via bluetooth. Even better: send and receive text messages from your desktop/pda/notebook using a real keyboard. The list goes on.
People always pipe up and say something like "waah waah bluetooth waah crap waah WUSB is miles better waah waah", when they've blatantly misunderstood the purpose of the technology, and haven't realised just how useful it is.
Are you American?:)
Re:Few will miss it...
by
Maxon
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· Score: 4, Informative
Oops, hit submit too early... To finish my thoughts..
Zigbee (802.15.4) was designed for long battery life time and simple design. It achieves this long battery life goal with keep the receivers off most of the time. Depending upon configuration and the accuracy of you're timers, you're receiver might only be on a few milliseconds every couple of minutes. Not good for low latency or high bandwidth, but works wonders for making batteries last a year or more.
Bluetooth is about speed and QoS. Eats much more power than Zigbee, and only supports 7 devices in a Piconet. Zigbee is designed to support thousands of devices in a network.
Bluetooth and Zigbee are complementary technologies, not competitive. Even the IEEE says so (Bluetooth is on top of 802.15.1).
(An early 802.15.4 adopter)
Re:not a good comparison
by
Dr.+Evil
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· Score: 2, Funny
The CD had no contemporary competition to deal with
DAT (recordable, backward compatible) and Minidisc (recordable, more portable)?
Little old ladies
by
Bender+Unit+22
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· Score: 4, Interesting
So are people here a bunch of little old ladies? All those people writing about it being dead. Are there no technology/gadet geeks here. I have many uses for Bluetooth. I got a Notebook with bluetooth so I don't need any wires to update my calender. Updating phone numbers to friends, co-workers, business relations are a lot easier with Bluetooth. I use Bluetooth to transfer MP3 files to the phone which also serves as a MP3 player when I am not taking the car to work. I also got a Bluetooth car kit installed, hopefully I don't need to get a entire new set installed when I change phone in the future, just the holder/charger. You can even get cars with Bluetooh phone kits that fits with the car. On rare occations I have used Bluetooth and GPRS to connect to servers using SSH from my notebook, although the latency are REALLY bad, but if you are in the middle of nowhere it's better than having to drive home. Some of my co-workers likes to use those Bluetooth head sets.
I see bluetooth phones all over the place, from my desk at work, I see about 15 different bluetooth devices, phones, PCs, PDAs and printers. When I take the subway home from work I can always see 2-3 other Bluetooth phones.
I admit that a lot of phones had a lousy implentation with few features, which has not helped the adoption.
Ok, maybe it is just in my "world" that Bluetooth is used, or maybe it is just non-existent in America?
Re:Bluetooth is dead
by
erick99
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Actually I do. I've been in technology (both engineering and marketing) for 24 years and I have seen it all. The short range is too short for too many applications. It's an opinion based on a lot of experience but it is, after all, just mine.
Cheers,
Erick
-- http://www.busyweather.com/
BT alive and well, misunderstood
by
idsofmarch
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· Score: 2, Insightful
I disagree,
BT is great for short-range transfer of data using low-power chips, I use it with my Powerbook, my cell phone and headset, and have used it to sync PDAs, etc. for others.
The short-range is actually as much as 10-meters, and BT was developed as a Personal Area Network protocol, meaning if you're bigger than 10-meters you're a pilot whale and BT ain't gonna' help that.
-- Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
Asprin
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Ok, you seem to know your way around, so can I bug you with some honest questions for which I can never seem to find an answer?
Are the data transmissions are encrypted in any way?
How do you select which device you are exchanging data with?
Can you limit which devices can and cannot communicate with each other to prevent the nosy neighbors from listening in?
Can you limit which devices can *see* each other to prevent the nosy neighbors from even knowing you have a bluetooth device?
How do you enter a secret access password into a headset?
Thanks!
-- "Lawyers are for sucks." - Doug McKenzie
Not a long move...
by
daijo78
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· Score: 2, Insightful
I live in Lund, Sweden, where both the Technology Licensing group and Ericsson Mobile Platforms are located. No more then 500 m apart! Sure they have to cross the highway but I think they'll manage. Maybe this isn't much more then merging to departments. Perhaps EMP responsible for the platform as a whole and one department for Bluetooth licensing doesn't make sense finacially. Just a thought.
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
mccalli
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· Score: 4, Informative
Are the data transmissions are encrypted in any way?
Yes, they are. Not certain of the standard though, so I don't know how difficult it is to brute force.
How do you select which device you are exchanging data with?
Interface depends on device, but normally you browse for them - a list is presented, and each device is named. Of course, you have to rely on the user having set the name to something more useful than "Nokia 3650" so you can identify which Nokia 3650...
Can you limit which devices can and cannot communicate with each other to prevent the nosy neighbors from listening in?
Yes, you can specify that devices need to a passkey to pair with each other. The neighbours don't get the key.
Can you limit which devices can and cannot communicate with each other to prevent the nosy neighbors from listening in?
Yes - you put your device in non-discoverable mode (similar to not broadcasting the SSID of a wireless network)
How do you enter a secret access password into a headset?
Or, indeed, a mouse as I had to set up for this machine. The answer is that the passkey is fixed on such devices, but they're also tied in with a hardware id (analogous to a MAC address). Thus another, similar headset with the same passkey still wouldn't successfully pair with your device - different hardware id
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Ian
Not lame -- think outside the box
by
plover
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· Score: 2, Insightful
It's getting adopted, although slower than most of us wish. Personally, I think the killer app for Bluetooth will be as the replacement for IR remote controls. Yes, IR is probably about a dollar cheaper per unit, but it's a one-way protocol with no feedback. Imagine a remote that if you pushed the button for channel change, the channel would actually change. Every single time.
And being two-way, a remote would automatically download its configuration right from the device you're controlling. Harmony remotes sort of do this today, but they require USB cables and that you download a configuration from their web site. The Philips Pronto remotes are somewhat cumbersome as their GUI is usually tied to the device, and you still have to find a configuration you like on the net.
Imagine a home where your PC, your phone, your TV, your PDA and your remote control can all interact and play nice. The phone rings? Your Tivo pauses the show, and displays the caller ID on screen allowing you to decide whether to answer it or not. Push the "do not disturb" button on the remote, and your answering machine will take over while you step into the bathroom. Your burglar alarm disarms itself because you walked up to the door, and arms itself as the last cell-phone equipped person leaves. And it's self configuring -- the only requirement is that you pair your devices to indicate "trust". Adding a surround-sound amplifier? Well, your TV, Tivo and cable box would all know about it automatically. Changing channels? Talk to the cable box. Your Tivo will know it's been changed. Raising volume? Your surround sound will handle that if it's on, your TV will handle it if it's off. And turning your system on won't involve four buttons or flaky macros that toggle one thing on but another off, either -- the power switch will turn on everything needed, reliably.
Yeah, it's a ways away yet, but a smart low-power wireless protocol makes it all possible. Being present already in phones, PDAs and PCs, Bluetooth seems like it's the first technology with a real shot at making this happen.
-- John
Re:Not lame -- think outside the box
by
NachoDaddy
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· Score: 3, Insightful
Most of your home automation ideas are already handled by Crestron. As far as all your CE deives self configuring by talking over bluetooth, that will never happen. The reality is that there is no reason for someone like Sony to want to communicate and integrate with Samsung or Motorolla, or anyone else. They would rather see a all Sony solution to the problem, therefore any automatic configuration solutions will always be proprietary. The only CE manufacturers that would be interested in something common are small manufacturers that can't offer a total solution. But then you have the overbearing licsening of Bluetooth. Won't happen.
Microsoft doesn't think Bluetooth is dying
by
93+Escort+Wagon
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Wish I could find the article I really wanted to link - in it a MS spokesman was saying they were adding more core BT technology into XP itself because their customers were demanding it.
--
#DeleteChrome
Other companies make BT phones now
by
CptChipJew
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· Score: 2, Informative
And since Sony Ericcson is one of the lesser phone makers in terms of units sold, I think the technology will be fine.
Another big step in making sure BT is here to stay is to ensure that home PC's come with adapters by default. Apple has been doing this with PowerBooks for over a year now, and that has helped the technology grow.
-- Vonal Declosion
Ericsson and SonyEricsson (was Re:Might not be bad
by
boster
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· Score: 2, Informative
I'm a little fuzzy on the relationship between Ericsson and SonyEricsson.
Ericsson is primarily a telecom network infrastructure company. They make, for example, the base stations for wireless networks. They used to make handsets but haven't for a long time. It's not part of their core business.
They long ago entered into a 50/50 joint venture with Sony, called SonyEricsson, to make handsets -- what with Sony being a consumer electronics giant and all.
Well trying BT with Nokia handsets (and windows for that matter) no wonder you had problems. Nokia has some of the worst BT implementation I have ever seen - they just havent got it right yet, not by a long shot.
Most of their phones only seem to support the headset profile to start with. So no file transfers or syncs to other standard software/devices/phones.
Nawwww, you're suffering from Worst. Implementation. By. Microsoft. Evah!
-- It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Aftermarket Bluetooth stereo?
by
Cinematique
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· Score: 2, Funny
I've been wondering... does anyone make an after-market stereo with Bluetooth speaker muting? Anything close??
Re:Does it matter?
by
Wayfare
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· Score: 2, Insightful
True, SE have mostly the same cell phones in both markets (except for which GSM bands they have), but the US cell phone market is still far behind the European.
The 2-3 year gap he was talking about is with the networks, the adoption of the superior GSM tech; just basically the slow movement of the US cell phone market in general.
Yes, ERICSSON drops bluetooth
by
tesmako
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· Score: 2, Informative
Indeed this is correct, Ericsson, a company that makes neither handsets nor bluetooth peripherals are dropping their division for the Bluetooth standard.
Ericsson, and note that while Ericsson does own half of SonyEricsson it does not itself make phones anymore, were a big initiative-taker in the Bluetooth standard, which is why the division was kicking around for so long after the company really lost all reason to deal with Bluetooth itself. This is a huge non-event. It will affect Bluetooth in no way.
Re:So Bluetooth's been adopted by the Apple Crowd
by
superpixel2000
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· Score: 2, Funny
Right on brother! My Timex Sinclair is all I need... Do they make a BT membrane keyboard?
-- did you win a free ipod? build a case for it here
European/Asian Perspective....
by
SenseiLeNoir
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· Score: 3, Insightful
Those predicting the death of bluetooth seem to usually be those of North American origin. In Europe, and ASia, where phoens are usually subsidised to hell, most "decent" phones being sold have bluetooth functionality. In terms of SonyEriccson, the SonyEricsson T610 is a phone which sold by the buckets, and is still being sold today, despite beign deprecated in favour of the T630, and the more advanced K700i. Other manufacturers are also incorporating the technology.
The reason behind popularity of Bluetooth is many fold:
- In Europe, Bluetooth headsets have REALLY taken off, especially thanks to the heavily enforeced bans on using handsets whilst driving.
- Bluetooth data communications are again increaingly popular (our GPRS systems are much more reliable, and its perfectly possible to conduct an internet session on a laptop, whilst screamign along in a 100mph train.. i know, coz i do that every evening). The phone stays in your pocket, and no messy wires to deal with
- for simple things just as transfering Ringtones, and gaming. People with SOnyEricsson phones easily swap rings and photos with others using BT technology. As well as wireless synch (try using Floats Mobiel Agent with a SonyEricsson phone via Bluetooth to simply blow your mind!)
These are just normal day to day applications of bluetooth. Tech people such as myself, use it even more.
IN my home, despite having a wires and Wireless networks, we also haev 2 USB BT dongles for the computers, a HP Bluetooth Printer, 3 Bluetooth Mobiles and a Headset. I use the headset for both the phone, AND as a wireless headset for VoIP applications on the computer.
In my experience, the technology has matured so well, it simply works. The only issues i have is on the PC side, where bluetooth stacks on the com0puter are either underfeatured, or clunky (dont get me started about MS's implementation in SP2). In all other bluetooth devices, the technology simply "works"
So to go with the parent post, i think the technology has matured enough to the point its possible to simply just make money out of it, there is very little extra that can be done. Why fix it if it aint broke?)
I've been very dubious about Bluetooth - but recently I've started to see the point.
Infrared transfers are just not an option, due to poor connection reliability, and I still haven't seen any phones with WiFi capability.
A friend of mine also has a bluetooth handsfree thing in his car, and it's a definite winner. He can leave his phone in his bag, and as long as it's inside the car he can make and receive calls over the speakers / in-car-mic.
Wireless transfer of data might not excite the masses, but this kind of real life advantage does - anyone who's had to manically search for a ringing phone in their car will see the benefit.
Slashdot Mirror
"Although Ericsson will continue its involvement in the Bluetooth Special Interest Group as a promoter of the technology, Akesson said, 'We will no longer develop new hardware or new IPs based on the Bluetooth specification.' Ericsson also won't pursue new chip customers for Bluetooth technology licensing."
Could someone explain to me how telling the world you're no longer interested in developing the technology or finding people to license it to is a method of "promoting" Bluetooth?
Right is wrong when left is right.
From the News.com.com article:
Glass Half Full Interpretation: Maybe this means that Bluetooth has become so simple to implement that they don't need a dedicated development team anymore. It seems that Bluetooth is cropping up in all sorts of CE devices. BT chips and control sets are becoming more and more standardized. For Ericsson, the hard work of developing tie-ins to their phone OS is already done. This could be a good sign, rather than a bad one, for Bluetooth in general.
I'm a little fuzzy on the relationship between Ericsson and SonyEricsson. Not sure if the former will impact the phones of the latter.
The facts have a liberal bias. --The Daily Show
I always like the idea of Bluetooth, though I'm afraid I saw this coming. I don't know why it was never adopted on a wider scale, but I certainly hope that other short distance wireless technologies (like WUSB) do take off. It would be nice to have a desktop with no wires except for power.
Ummm....yes? Just a guess, but what the hell...
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
No effect at all. JVC invented the VHS standard, it's small market share was not signifigant in it's adoption. Phillips invented the redbook audio CD, it's influence is miniscule today, or even 15 years ago.
Further advancements in Bluetooth technology will be made by the Special Interest Group, which consists of a number of companies with ties to the technology. Ericsson will remain a part of that group.
So it seems that Ericsson is perhaps just diverting their bluetooth division to one of it's subsidiaries/subdivisions. After all, SonyEricsson is one of the main Bluetooth supporters. This may just be overpanic...
It could be as simple as "the standard has been set, the goals have been accomplished, move on to new things." Since Ericsson is no longer the sole creative force behind Bluetooth, it makes financial sense to not keep 125 people employed to argue one seat on the Bluetooth Special Interest Group.
It's too bad for Bluetooth in that I think Ericsson had some brilliant visionaries doing this work, and that those people are no longer focused on Bluetooth. However, they're being incorporated into other units which can only help them overall.
It's not good news, it's not bad news. It's just news. The timing is interesting as I see Bluetooth now on the cusp of adoption by every cell phone maker for their mid- and possibly even low-end phones.
( And Michael, wi-fi is not necessarily a good replacement for Bluetooth. The higher power requirements for wi-fi mean shorter battery life, which is death for cell phones. And Bluetooth incorporates discovery protocols which are all geared toward personal networking, not internet networking. I think wi-fi would be a really chatty way to accomplish those goals, again at the expense of battery life. )
John
http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,62687,00 .html
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
I doubt this will affect bluetooth's ability to enter the mainstream. In fact, I never quite understood the need for bluetooth in your cellphone (aside from cellphone PDA type devices). Wireless headphones are nice, but is this really what I want to use bluetooth for?
Rather, I think that the PC perhipheral market is what will ultimately drive bluetooth. Think about it. Truely wireless keyboards, mice, modems, printers, etc. are so beneficial for end users. Bluetooth's future is in "untangling the PC" not the convienence of wireless cell phone headsets and small PC to cellphone data transfers.
Move over Bluetooth, behold the era of Zigbee!
From the article: Ericsson is pulling the plug on its technology licensing unit, the wholly-owned subsidiary which invented Bluetooth wireless technology and became the driving force behind the company's Bluetooth initiative.... Ericsson also won't pursue new chip customers for Bluetooth technology licensing.
So was Ericsson, as the inventor of Bluetooth, the only licensing authority, or has it granted/sold that authority to others?
Cheers,
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
Well, admittedly typing this reply on a bluetooth keyboard might not count as useful, so I'll have to go for an hour ago when I used it transfer photos. Before that I'd have to stretch a whole two hours ago when I used the built-in bluetooth on this Powerbook to communicate with a bluetooth mobile in order to send an SMS. And before that, it would be about five hours ago when I synchronised my address books. Without taking the phone out of my pocket.
Enough yet? Or shall I cast my memory as far back as this morning to dig out some more usage?
Cheers,
Ian
In spite of Ericsson pulling out, I think Bluetooth adoption will speed up. Maybe they are getting out of the game at the right time for them, sometimes the money is in a product before commodification.
The reason I think Bluetooth adoption will speed up is it is on most of the Apple pc products now. That happened with USB also. At that time PS/2 (or adb) was still the favorite connector for keyboards and mice, now on Mac and many PC's USB is the way.
As a further prognostication, I think Bluetooth could be the high end mouse/keyboard/PDA/cell phone connector of choice down the road. While USB is handy, the new iMac shows that lacking a swarm of cables can be a nice feature.
-A
I cant say much about why they are dropping the unit but us useful to know that SonyEriccson has had some trouble with the t608 Bluetooth phone (used on the sprint network).
e ws &file=article&sid=445
e ws &file=article&sid=555
Part of it was them "obtaining" some technology from qualcomm,
To the t608 being a bluetooth phone with some interesting bugs
Here are some links with more details:
http://www.sprintpcsinfo.com/modules.php?name=N
http://www.sprintpcsinfo.com/modules.php?name=N
Please reread the article
Eericsson shifted the bleutooth work to a difrferent division folks..no stopping bluetooth at ericsson but a shifting of resources..
Micahel why did you avoid reading the 2nd paragraph?
Don't Tread on OpenSource
What adoption? When was the last time you used a Bluetooth-enabled device to do anything useful?
Last time? I'd guess about 5 minutes ago.
1. I use a bluetooth connection to my laptop to edit my cell phone contact list with a real keyboard.
2. I use a bluetooth headset to talk on my cell phone without a wire catching on everything.
3. I have a bluetooth GPS unit that I use map routing with my pocketpc.
4. I have a bluetooth router on my home network to provide LAN access to my pocketpc (WiFi drains the battery in about 1.5 hours, bluetooth in 5.5).
Too many people make the mistake of thinking that since THEY don't use a technology, nobody does. Bluetooth is not only gaining wide acceptance, but it's very useful as well. Short range, low power consumption is a killer combination for many many uses.
Or using a Bluetooth headset in conjunction with my phone? (As it's illegal to drive in the UK whilst holding/operating a phone in your hand ?)
I'd say that was useful.
Recap:
USB going wireless
Bluetooth declared dead.
Bluetooth ships 1M unis
Bluetooth is dead
is apple still dying too?
Error: Id10t detected
I use it- but perhaps GPS and Windows CE 3.0 isn't a significant number of devices to you. Personally, I'm waiting to get a GPS phone to start programming and testing a GPS-aware Web Browser for Windows CE- I think such a beast could be quite usefull.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Yes, if we wait long enough, there is always a better version of whatever coming along. Thats why I'm waiting for the Uberium CPU to upgrade my 386, I know it will be out sometime.
I would be very disappointed if Bluetooth went away. I just got a new laptop, with Bluetooth, synced up my Palm via Bluetooth (no more cradle needed). I'm getting a new Cell phone, and you guessed it, I want it with BlueTooth.
Living in Ontario, our options for BT enabled phones is either Rogers or Fido. Rogers is just making the switch to GSM (well, have been for a while, but not quite complete yet), and Fido only really exists in Cities with populations over 600000. Since I have yet to find a BT enabled phone on any other provider (it seems BT and GSM are tied at the hip), I'm switching networks in a month to get a GSM w/ BT phone.
Of course there will be better ways of doing this in the future, but it works for what it does, which is all that I ask of it.
The only reason that i purchased another Sony Ericsson phone after having the T68i was because of BlueTooth. Apple is a big supporter of Bluetooth as well so my T616 and G4 Powerbook integrated perfectly. I guess this will be my last Ericsson phone now. Time to go for the Treo 650 with bluetooth around XMAS time.
GroupShares Inc.
-------
artlu.net
Sheesh. Just as I get my Mac, Linux box, and Palm T3 talking bluetooth wirelessly to my GSM phone.
Bluetooth = 802.11 but low cost, low power, low bandwidth.
I can control what devices connect to my BT devices. I can control what services on each device I want to offer. I can write SMS (text messages) from my PDA and have the phone send them.
No nearby 802.11 hotspot? No problem, go data through the phone.
I can sync the contacts on my laptop with those on my phone with those on my PDA. No more having different contacts all over the place.
There's various BT apps for PalmOS that allow you to have a small whiteboard/chat over BT. Great for meetings.
All without a wire. Not one is needed for communicating.
BT is currently languishing because Windows doesn't really support it. Linux has okay support (still needs some help) but Macs and embedded devices are doing pretty good with it.
Yeah. Put Bluetooth on the Segway with a VoIP phone and you have a hype-mobile!
The CDMA providers/phone manufactures are just getting a clue about Bluetooth. In the US, Verizon should be selling a Bluetooth Motorola phone. Sprint has sold a Bluetooth Sony Ericsson phone (with lots of BT bugs), and Nokia has announced a CDMA flip-phone with bluetooth...
Doh!
Well, it's sorta useful.
See, Apple makes nice hardware.
Then they screw up and put the USB ports on the left side of the Powerbook, while I'm right-handed, and like having an external mouse.
Not one to want an extra cord snaked all the way around the back ot my laptop, I took advantage of the built-in Bluetooth module and got a Bluetooth mouse.
If pointing and clicking comfortably without dealing with an external wireless transceiver is useful, then I've got your argument.
At the very least, it's kinda cool.
Raptor
"Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."
Hope they got a shot of novacaine first.
Why would it? What other technology can do what bluetooth can do? It doesn't really have a direct competitor. The market is just not as large as some people expected. It does not "replace wires." It removes (some) wires for people who are willing to pay extra. Most of the bluetooth products are top notch and top dollar, so they have a specific market. Adoption was limited at the start.
Open Source Sushi
Heh. It sounds as if you're American. Sony Ericsson has been doing major inroads the last year and a half or so, mostly at Nokia's expense. You see, while all of Nokia's phones look like an alien has designed them, Sony Ericsson's actually look nice, and they are almost all very feature packed.
Then again, you wouldn't know if you live in the US, since you lot have been 2-3 years behind in mobile telephony adoption for the last 10 years.
:wq!
for helping me to get laid in the UK.
Don't worry, there will be a huge outcry from brits so socially inept they need bluetooth to get laid on trains that somebody will step forward and support it.
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
In typical Slashdot function, we see people sitting here typing away responses about how useless bluetooth is for wireless-whatever due to its short range. Unfortunately for those people, they never realized that bluetooth is a wire-replacement technology. When I have my cell phone on at my desk, I don't want to feel like I am sitting in a hospital ICU bed with a bunch of wires hanging off my body. Instead, my bluetooth headset takes care of that part. Also, at my current location, internet access via Edge is far more useful and cheaper than buying DSL. So it serves two purposes right there that 802.11 is too killer for. Also, sync'ing my PDA is much easier than having to drag a craddle with me everywhere. My point is that SE is only moving their bluetooth operations under another division so bluetooth is not going anywhere and I am glad. 802.11 is too power hunger for the things I need to get done. Lastly, big manufacturers such as Dell are doing away with ALL legacy ports such are IrDA, Parallel, Serial, so we are left with firewire, USB, and bluetooth. Out of those, bluetooth makes the most sense.
Agreed. I love my bluetooth phone.
I love my bluetooth headset. My phone can be in my armrest in the car, and I can dial and answer by the press of a button -- with no wires.
Or if I'm on a conference call and need others to hear, I can simply make the connection to my laptop and use its microphone and speakers for my phone.
Or all of the above in the parent post.
> What adoption? When was the last time you used a Bluetooth-
> enabled device to do anything useful?
Well, I clicked on "Reply to This" using my Bluetooth mouse connected to my PowerBook.
But it's arguable whether posting to Slashdot qualifies as "useful"
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
"What adoption? When was the last time you used a Bluetooth-enabled device to do anything useful?"
I think somebody just discovered the world's population is greater than himself.
"Derp de derp."
The short range may have something to do with it.
If you think that's a liability, you really don't understand the hallmarks of bluetooth and what its purposes are.
Bluetooth has become commoditized; it's in the hands of low-cost chip manufacturers. That makes it uninteresting for a company like Ericsson and they are better off just buying whatever BT technology they need cheaper from elsewhere. If anything, that's probably a sign of maturity of the technology.
802.15.4 (the protocol Zigbee is based on) does not have enough bandwidth or the QoS to perform voice communications the way Bluetooth does.
Perhaps if we're lucky, Bluetooth will go away.
You haven't used Bluetooth have you? Or maybe you just had a bad experience. I don't know. What I do know is that Bluetooth is a feature I now regard as indespensible in my phone, pda and, soon, headphones. I won't even consider a phone, pda or laptop without it now.
My phone and PDA (nokia 6310i and Palm Tungsten T3) essentially act as one device thanks almost entirely to bluetooth. I can look up a number in my Palm, tap it and it automatically dials on my phone. But unlike a smartphone, I can leave the PDA behind if I don't need it. If I want to sync my phone or pda with my computer, I don't have to find a cable, I just do it. If I want to check email on my laptop or my pda, I connect automatically through the bluetooth modem in my phone and it's like carrying a (admittidly slow until I get an EDGE phone) wifi hotspot with me everywhere. Driving in my car? Bluetooth headset. I don't even have to pull the phone out of the bag and there are no wires needed.
At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, Bluetooth is seriously cool. It makes it very easy for devices to interact. Will something better come along one day? Sure. But in the mean time, bluetooth does the job and does it very well.
It has cheap Java games on it that I could probably write better games for. It has mini golf and some random adventure game. I play both every now and then... especially the golf.
It does an okay job of organizing my contacts without bluetooth. But this is an article about bluetooth, so let me go further. My phone knows everything about my PowerBook's Address Book thanks to iSync over bluetooth. My PowerBook has sent music files to the phone via bluetooth. And it's sent back the (admittedly crappy yet cool) pictures I took of Wrigley Field when I decided to go ahead and set a pic of Wrigley as the background.
It has text messaging and WAP services, but I don't need those, so I don't pay for them or use them. If I ever need a hotspot from T-Mobile, it'll be for the PowerBook, not the phone.
This is my experience, and why I think the Ericsson I have makes an excellent phone to mark as the standard to beat for the next couple of years.
-Rob
Marriage doesn't have to suck!
I like my bluetooth phone precisely because I don't sync it very often, and I don't transfer photos very often. But when I do, it takes a couple of clicks and it's done. Never again will I spend hours hunting for a data cable, that in fact I've lent to a friend.
(typed on my bluetooth keyboard)
Here's a nice scene: You're on your PDA, and not in a wireless hotspot. You want to check your mails, so you connect to your ISP using your phone which is in your pocket. You don't have to reach for anything - the two communicate, and you instantly have GPRS to your PDA. Or, another cool scene: At work, listening to music, and you want to check your voicemails quickly. Dial the answerphone on your phone (or from your computer), and listen to the messages over your headphones, nicely mixed with some quiet music from itunes or whatever, via bluetooth. Even better: send and receive text messages from your desktop/pda/notebook using a real keyboard. The list goes on.
People always pipe up and say something like "waah waah bluetooth waah crap waah WUSB is miles better waah waah", when they've blatantly misunderstood the purpose of the technology, and haven't realised just how useful it is.
Are you American? :)
Oops, hit submit too early... To finish my thoughts..
Zigbee (802.15.4) was designed for long battery life time and simple design. It achieves this long battery life goal with keep the receivers off most of the time. Depending upon configuration and the accuracy of you're timers, you're receiver might only be on a few milliseconds every couple of minutes. Not good for low latency or high bandwidth, but works wonders for making batteries last a year or more.
Bluetooth is about speed and QoS. Eats much more power than Zigbee, and only supports 7 devices in a Piconet. Zigbee is designed to support thousands of devices in a network.
Bluetooth and Zigbee are complementary technologies, not competitive. Even the IEEE says so (Bluetooth is on top of 802.15.1).
(An early 802.15.4 adopter)
The CD had no contemporary competition to deal with
DAT (recordable, backward compatible) and Minidisc (recordable, more portable)?
So are people here a bunch of little old ladies?
All those people writing about it being dead. Are there no technology/gadet geeks here. I have many uses for Bluetooth.
I got a Notebook with bluetooth so I don't need any wires to update my calender. Updating phone numbers to friends, co-workers, business relations are a lot easier with Bluetooth.
I use Bluetooth to transfer MP3 files to the phone which also serves as a MP3 player when I am not taking the car to work.
I also got a Bluetooth car kit installed, hopefully I don't need to get a entire new set installed when I change phone in the future, just the holder/charger. You can even get cars with Bluetooh phone kits that fits with the car.
On rare occations I have used Bluetooth and GPRS to connect to servers using SSH from my notebook, although the latency are REALLY bad, but if you are in the middle of nowhere it's better than having to drive home.
Some of my co-workers likes to use those Bluetooth head sets.
I see bluetooth phones all over the place, from my desk at work, I see about 15 different bluetooth devices, phones, PCs, PDAs and printers. When I take the subway home from work I can always see 2-3 other Bluetooth phones.
I admit that a lot of phones had a lousy implentation with few features, which has not helped the adoption.
Ok, maybe it is just in my "world" that Bluetooth is used, or maybe it is just non-existent in America?
Cheers,
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
I disagree, BT is great for short-range transfer of data using low-power chips, I use it with my Powerbook, my cell phone and headset, and have used it to sync PDAs, etc. for others. The short-range is actually as much as 10-meters, and BT was developed as a Personal Area Network protocol, meaning if you're bigger than 10-meters you're a pilot whale and BT ain't gonna' help that.
Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
Ok, you seem to know your way around, so can I bug you with some honest questions for which I can never seem to find an answer?
- Are the data transmissions are encrypted in any way?
- How do you select which device you are exchanging data with?
- Can you limit which devices can and cannot communicate with each other to prevent the nosy neighbors from listening in?
- Can you limit which devices can *see* each other to prevent the nosy neighbors from even knowing you have a bluetooth device?
- How do you enter a secret access password into a headset?
Thanks!"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
I live in Lund, Sweden, where both the Technology Licensing group and Ericsson Mobile Platforms are located. No more then 500 m apart! Sure they have to cross the highway but I think they'll manage. Maybe this isn't much more then merging to departments. Perhaps EMP responsible for the platform as a whole and one department for Bluetooth licensing doesn't make sense finacially. Just a thought.
Yes, they are. Not certain of the standard though, so I don't know how difficult it is to brute force.
Interface depends on device, but normally you browse for them - a list is presented, and each device is named. Of course, you have to rely on the user having set the name to something more useful than "Nokia 3650" so you can identify which Nokia 3650...
Yes, you can specify that devices need to a passkey to pair with each other. The neighbours don't get the key.
Yes - you put your device in non-discoverable mode (similar to not broadcasting the SSID of a wireless network)
Or, indeed, a mouse as I had to set up for this machine. The answer is that the passkey is fixed on such devices, but they're also tied in with a hardware id (analogous to a MAC address). Thus another, similar headset with the same passkey still wouldn't successfully pair with your device - different hardware id
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Ian
And being two-way, a remote would automatically download its configuration right from the device you're controlling. Harmony remotes sort of do this today, but they require USB cables and that you download a configuration from their web site. The Philips Pronto remotes are somewhat cumbersome as their GUI is usually tied to the device, and you still have to find a configuration you like on the net.
Imagine a home where your PC, your phone, your TV, your PDA and your remote control can all interact and play nice. The phone rings? Your Tivo pauses the show, and displays the caller ID on screen allowing you to decide whether to answer it or not. Push the "do not disturb" button on the remote, and your answering machine will take over while you step into the bathroom. Your burglar alarm disarms itself because you walked up to the door, and arms itself as the last cell-phone equipped person leaves. And it's self configuring -- the only requirement is that you pair your devices to indicate "trust". Adding a surround-sound amplifier? Well, your TV, Tivo and cable box would all know about it automatically. Changing channels? Talk to the cable box. Your Tivo will know it's been changed. Raising volume? Your surround sound will handle that if it's on, your TV will handle it if it's off. And turning your system on won't involve four buttons or flaky macros that toggle one thing on but another off, either -- the power switch will turn on everything needed, reliably.
Yeah, it's a ways away yet, but a smart low-power wireless protocol makes it all possible. Being present already in phones, PDAs and PCs, Bluetooth seems like it's the first technology with a real shot at making this happen.
John
Microsoft included some key updates to its built-in Bluetooth technology inside of XP Service Pack 2.
Wish I could find the article I really wanted to link - in it a MS spokesman was saying they were adding more core BT technology into XP itself because their customers were demanding it.
#DeleteChrome
And since Sony Ericcson is one of the lesser phone makers in terms of units sold, I think the technology will be fine.
Another big step in making sure BT is here to stay is to ensure that home PC's come with adapters by default. Apple has been doing this with PowerBooks for over a year now, and that has helped the technology grow.
Vonal Declosion
Ericsson is primarily a telecom network infrastructure company. They make, for example, the base stations for wireless networks. They used to make handsets but haven't for a long time. It's not part of their core business.
They long ago entered into a 50/50 joint venture with Sony, called SonyEricsson, to make handsets -- what with Sony being a consumer electronics giant and all.
Madness takes its toll. Exact change please.
Well trying BT with Nokia handsets (and windows for that matter) no wonder you had problems. Nokia has some of the worst BT implementation I have ever seen - they just havent got it right yet, not by a long shot.
Most of their phones only seem to support the headset profile to start with. So no file transfers or syncs to other standard software/devices/phones.
Yeah, don't blame BT just because Nokia cuts every other corner on their cell phones
Nawwww, you're suffering from Worst. Implementation. By. Microsoft. Evah!
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
I've been wondering... does anyone make an after-market stereo with Bluetooth speaker muting? Anything close??
True, SE have mostly the same cell phones in both markets (except for which GSM bands they have), but the US cell phone market is still far behind the European.
The 2-3 year gap he was talking about is with the networks, the adoption of the superior GSM tech; just basically the slow movement of the US cell phone market in general.
Ericsson, and note that while Ericsson does own half of SonyEricsson it does not itself make phones anymore, were a big initiative-taker in the Bluetooth standard, which is why the division was kicking around for so long after the company really lost all reason to deal with Bluetooth itself. This is a huge non-event. It will affect Bluetooth in no way.
Right on brother! My Timex Sinclair is all I need... Do they make a BT membrane keyboard?
did you win a free ipod? build a case for it here
Those predicting the death of bluetooth seem to usually be those of North American origin. In Europe, and ASia, where phoens are usually subsidised to hell, most "decent" phones being sold have bluetooth functionality. In terms of SonyEriccson, the SonyEricsson T610 is a phone which sold by the buckets, and is still being sold today, despite beign deprecated in favour of the T630, and the more advanced K700i. Other manufacturers are also incorporating the technology.
The reason behind popularity of Bluetooth is many fold:
- In Europe, Bluetooth headsets have REALLY taken off, especially thanks to the heavily enforeced bans on using handsets whilst driving.
- Bluetooth data communications are again increaingly popular (our GPRS systems are much more reliable, and its perfectly possible to conduct an internet session on a laptop, whilst screamign along in a 100mph train.. i know, coz i do that every evening). The phone stays in your pocket, and no messy wires to deal with
- for simple things just as transfering Ringtones, and gaming. People with SOnyEricsson phones easily swap rings and photos with others using BT technology. As well as wireless synch (try using Floats Mobiel Agent with a SonyEricsson phone via Bluetooth to simply blow your mind!)
These are just normal day to day applications of bluetooth. Tech people such as myself, use it even more.
IN my home, despite having a wires and Wireless networks, we also haev 2 USB BT dongles for the computers, a HP Bluetooth Printer, 3 Bluetooth Mobiles and a Headset. I use the headset for both the phone, AND as a wireless headset for VoIP applications on the computer.
In my experience, the technology has matured so well, it simply works. The only issues i have is on the PC side, where bluetooth stacks on the com0puter are either underfeatured, or clunky (dont get me started about MS's implementation in SP2). In all other bluetooth devices, the technology simply "works"
So to go with the parent post, i think the technology has matured enough to the point its possible to simply just make money out of it, there is very little extra that can be done. Why fix it if it aint broke?)
Have a nice day!
I've been very dubious about Bluetooth - but recently I've started to see the point.
Infrared transfers are just not an option, due to poor connection reliability, and I still haven't seen any phones with WiFi capability.
A friend of mine also has a bluetooth handsfree thing in his car, and it's a definite winner. He can leave his phone in his bag, and as long as it's inside the car he can make and receive calls over the speakers / in-car-mic.
Wireless transfer of data might not excite the masses, but this kind of real life advantage does - anyone who's had to manically search for a ringing phone in their car will see the benefit.