Treo Bluetooth Bounty Efforts Unsuccessful

Wow, they gave it an entire 3 months! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 08:28 · Score: 4, Insightful

Learn to have some patience before throwing in the towel.

Re:Wow, they gave it an entire 3 months! by pyrrhonist · 2004-09-12 08:33 · Score: 5, Funny

Learn to have some patience before throwing in the towel.
How long is it going to take to learn that?

--
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
Re:Wow, they gave it an entire 3 months! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 08:40 · Score: 0

Learn to have some patience before throwing in the towel.
How long is it going to take to learn that?
Too long. I tried for three whole months before I gave up.
Re:Wow, they gave it an entire 3 months! by DrEldarion · 2004-09-12 10:31 · Score: 3, Informative

"As we got more publicity, more people who knew Bluetooth started to get involved in the discussion. Sadly, these people only had bad news to share. Developers started to tell us that what we were asking was impossible, because it was physically impossible for the Treo to access the voice stream from the radio. This meant that at best, a driver would only be capable of doing data over Bluetooth. But, as our conditions stated that it must support the headset profile, a driver that only did data would not have won the bounty."

Sure sounds like patience is what they needed, hm?
Re:Wow, they gave it an entire 3 months! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 11:00 · Score: 0

Time has no meaning. To a true student, a year is as a day.

A year??? I wanna beat people up right now!

<boot to the head>
Re:Wow, they gave it an entire 3 months! by VikingBrad · 2004-09-12 11:45 · Score: 1

The new Treo model will have built-in Bluetooth so for most owners they will probably upgraded to the latest model meaning there will not be reduced demand for bluetooth for the older model. Didn't seem to get a mention in the article.
They haven't found a developer to take on the task in 3 months. It doesn't mean it would take 3 months to develop
Cheers
VikingBrad

Complicated Treo? by aklix · 2004-09-12 08:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

Since when did an external device become too complicated to program a driver for? Have devices really become that bloated?

Re:Complicated Treo? by dnoyeb · 2004-09-12 08:33 · Score: 2, Funny

Since they offered $5000 for it? LOL
Re:Complicated Treo? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 09:03 · Score: 0

Treo must be really complicated. Note that third party Lego microcontrollers mentioned in the previous article even support bluetooth.
How the heck can a Treo be harder to programm than a Lego controller?
Re:Complicated Treo? by itwerx · 2004-09-12 09:17 · Score: 1

Since they offered $5000 for it? LOL

No kidding!
A top-notch embedded systems programmer can make $50-$100 an hour (salary vs contract).
That $5k is at best a week or two worth of work.
Not to mention whomever does it is going to need several thousand dollars worth of various blue-tooth enabled devices to test it with since, (like every other standard that's ever existed), many companies haven't implemented it quite perfectly.
Re:Complicated Treo? by Fnkmaster · 2004-09-12 11:07 · Score: 4, Informative

See my post here. In short, it's not just talking to an arbitrary external device. There is no documentation for any of the several layers of driver components here, at least not without NDAs with PalmOne and others. So the best guide you can find is the Palm OS 4 drivers (at least one PRC file for BT, BT serial, BT/SD), which weren't written for ARM hardware. So take those drivers, disassemble them (like I said, at least 3 PRC files), now go through opcode-by-opcode and figure out what each of the undocumented API calls are doing, so you can write something that's compatible with the built-in Bluetooth API.

Oh yeah, and there's really no public documentation for writing drivers of any sort for OS 5/ARM - you're talking about stuff operating below the level of the public PalmOS API. So it's not a matter of bloating here, just lack of information because the whole system is relatively closed and undocumented.

I'm not an expert by any means, just a guy with a modest amount of Palm application development experience who took a crack at this problem only to throw up my hands in frustration after a day or so, realizing it was much harder than it looked at first glance without the proper documentation for anything.
Re:Complicated Treo? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 12:20 · Score: 0

That and the fact that the Treo's SD port doesn't provide enough power to drive most (any ?) wifi cards. At least thats what I read somewhere.
Re:Complicated Treo? by mysticwhiskey · 2004-09-12 23:32 · Score: 1

I hear ya... apparently viable SDIO development requires a somewhat hefty sum to join the SDIO organisation, along with which comes an NDA preventing disclosure of said specs. I embarked on this project to see what I could come up with, but I hit a brick wall when I could not find the necessary documentation. I'm sure *technically* it can be done, but with no documentation nor a legal avenue to distribute said driver, it's not going to come about from anyone but PalmOne / PalmSource.
From an economic point of view, I realised it wouldn't be in PalmOne's best interests to release drivers to enable something which would be a big selling point in the next generation of devices. From a consumer-support point of view, I thought fuck this. If this is the attitude, I'm moving on. Hello Pocket PC, seeya later Palm.
So much for Palm promoting SDIO expandibility, when there's NO SDIO bluetooth future for those Treo's, tungstens and Zire's. Even WiFi took god know how many years to come along, only to find a COUPLE of devices (supposedly) had sufficiently powered SDIO slots to work with them!
Sigh... it hurts banging one's head against a wall, sometimes!
mw

--
Stuck down a hole! In the middle of the night! With an owl!

People too picky on jobs these days? by Gentlewhisper · 2004-09-12 08:30 · Score: 2, Funny

That is some good pay man, and in view of all that whinging on /. sometimes I really wonder why no one took up that offer.

Anyway why are they still bothering with OS5? I thought OS6 is already coming soon? They might as well save the $ for the new OS.

--
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!

Re:People too picky on jobs these days? by dioscaido · 2004-09-12 09:04 · Score: 4, Insightful

> That is some good pay man, and in view of all that whinging on /. sometimes I really wonder why no one took up that offer.

heh... probably because 95% of the slashdotters that trash Windows on a daily basis couldn't write an OS module if their life depended on it.
Re:People too picky on jobs these days? by don.g · 2004-09-12 10:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

A USD5.8K "bounty" for three month's work? "Good pay"?

That's NZD8.8K - yearly eqiv NZD35.2K. If you're able to actually achieve what's required for that bounty, then you should be able to get a job that pays more than that.

--
Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
Re:People too picky on jobs these days? by Wargames · 2004-09-12 10:50 · Score: 1

One reason I wouldn't do it for a potential $5000 is that somebody else might beat me to it. Why waste my time?

Why not post the request this way: "Wanted: Palm OS Programmer to create Bluetooth interface, willing to pay $5000 + royalties, only the most qualified will be selected, send your resume."?

I know there are non-professional programmers out there who will write amazing code for the challenge and fun but I have a family to feed.

--
-- Each tock of the Planck clock is a new world and here we are still life. --
Re:People too picky on jobs these days? by VikingBrad · 2004-09-12 11:50 · Score: 1

Ah, its not for 3 months work. They have been trying to find a develepor for 3 months to do the work and they haven't found one so they are calling off the search. Palm are including Bluetooth in the next Treo model so it kind of defeats the purpose of the bounty.
Cheers
VikingBrad
Re:People too picky on jobs these days? by Calroth · 2004-09-12 16:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

Half the people here are saying that 3 months is too short. But if they increased it to 6 months, you'd effectively get paid at half the rate - and who wants that? (The other half are saying that the rate is too low already, so the time should be decreased.)

I'm holding the $5812 sum fixed, not going up or down. The reason is because that's the price that Treo 600 owners have committed for a driver. Whether this is too high or too low is debatable, however, at the end of the day, that's the dollar value.
Re:People too picky on jobs these days? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 17:25 · Score: 0

palm os5 and os6 were ment to exist together (in seperate devices). i think os6 was ment for smart phones
Re:People too picky on jobs these days? by indiechild · 2004-09-12 23:29 · Score: 1

This got Score:5 Insightful? Now I truly know some moderators must be on crack...
Re:People too picky on jobs these days? by sadomikeyism · 2004-09-13 04:02 · Score: 1

" One reason I wouldn't do it for a potential $5000 is that somebody else might beat me to it. Why waste my time?"
Oh, my, isn't that the sort of creed that sent men to the moon, that sent Columbus sailing, and that drove every inventor and scientist in history to make their mark in the world....
Frankly, it's a good thing you didn't write it. I don't think your imagination is up to the challenge.

--
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves
Re:People too picky on jobs these days? by ivan256 · 2004-09-13 07:41 · Score: 1

Good Pay?

The last device driver I wrote under contract paid US$88,000. Plus, I had documentation and access to the hardware developers to ask questions, so it was a fairly easy gig. For $5k this would only be worth it if I wanted the driver for myself too, and that's assuming it's even possible. Without docs it would be a considerable amount of work to even figure out if it could be done.
Re:People too picky on jobs these days? by Wargames · 2004-09-13 17:10 · Score: 1

I know your post is FB but I really like this sentence:

It's not that my imagination isn't up to the challenge it's the challenge isn't up to my imagination.

--
-- Each tock of the Planck clock is a new world and here we are still life. --

Palm should support their products better. by ellisDtrails · 2004-09-12 08:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

Although I am really siked for the new Treo's:
Link for Treo Ace

--
GetTheJob.com : Nothing but Real Jobs.

Re:Palm should support their products better. by iCEBaLM · 2004-09-12 08:42 · Score: 2, Informative

"psyched"

Only 1135 signed up so far by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 08:32 · Score: 4, Informative

http://www.savebetamax.org/ Let's Slashdot the Senators. Please sign-up and follow through. If the INDUCE act passes, we all lose.

Re:Only 1135 signed up so far by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 08:34 · Score: 0

this should be modded up. there is no story on slashdot right now as important as this comment.
Re:Only 1135 signed up so far by flycrg · 2004-09-12 09:06 · Score: 0, Troll

If you think this is such an important story (and I do), then why the annonymity?
Re:Only 1135 signed up so far by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 13:30 · Score: 0

Because he knows pig fuckers like you will just mod it down as off topic and screw his karma.
Re:Only 1135 signed up so far by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 13:55 · Score: 0

if it's so important, shouldn't he be more worried about it and less worried about his karma?
Re:Only 1135 signed up so far by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-13 00:41 · Score: 0

Perhaps he is like me, and doesn't have a login... 'cause I don't care about "karma".
Re:Only 1135 signed up so far by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-14 05:25 · Score: 0

Perhaps he is like me and doesn't have a login... 'cause I'm lazy.

Unrealistic Expectations by Noksagt · 2004-09-12 08:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

I know they announced the dealine in advance, but their 3 month project was horribly unrealistic for such a small bounty. The initial slashdot article had comments to this effect (out of the relatively few comments it had--this is a BAD sign: no one really cares). I can see MAYBE an undergrad who didn't have a summer job working on it, but no one else would put everything else on hold for a pathetic bounty for an already ambitious timeline.

Impossible by comwiz56 · 2004-09-12 08:35 · Score: 5, Interesting

From the article:
"As we got more publicity, more people who knew Bluetooth started to get involved in the discussion. Sadly, these people only had bad news to share. Developers started to tell us that what we were asking was impossible, because it was physically impossible for the Treo to access the voice stream from the radio. This meant that at best, a driver would only be capable of doing data over Bluetooth. But, as our conditions stated that it must support the headset profile, a driver that only did data would not have won the bounty." ... and they're suprised nobody could do something impossible?

Re:Impossible by kfg · 2004-09-12 08:47 · Score: 1

... and they're suprised nobody could do something impossible?

I guess they're surprised that it turned out to be impossible, as per the Konigsberg Bridge Problem.

However, if it really is impossible they should have sucked it up and awarded the bounty to the first person who proved it, as per Euler and the Konigsberg Bridge Problem.

Knowing for a fact that something can't be done is itself valuable information.

KFG
Re:Impossible by Fnkmaster · 2004-09-12 10:56 · Score: 4, Interesting

I can also assure you even writing a driver for the data capabilities of the BT card was nearly impossible without extensive reverse engineering of the existing drivers - there are several layers of drivers, all of which are undocumented in the public PalmOne hardware/Palm OS API documentation. The SD card has no documentation to speak of. There were, IIRC, three different driver files you would have to rewrite and get compiling and working under OS 5/ARM. Oh, and did I mention, you can't use any of the usual Palm development tools since they don't generate ARM native code, you need to use a totally different toolchain (GNU with ARM target, I guess).

There was an easier way to get BT working, which is to build an add-on device that connected to the external serial line and ran the signal through a UART to one of the many complete BT chip systems out there. I made some progress toward doing this, but I lost my motivation when they announced the Treo Ace (and I got busy with other stuff). My takeaway from this experiment was that the internals of Palm OS software and hardware are sadly extremely closed these days, and even figuring out the general things (like how to write drivers for OS 5) is nearly impossible. Things didn't used to suck so much in Palm land (before the PalmOne/PalmSource split I guess?).

And a hardware add-on solution would have made voice possible too (by plugging into the headset connector) - as this article said, there was no way to access the voice audio stream from software to redirect it to the BT card, even if it had the capability to do so (which is also doubtful - apparently the relevant voice pins on the BT chip in these cards may not have even been connected).

So no, nobody in their right mind would have done THAT much work for 5 grand. I've done plenty of Palm programming in the past, and had this been a simple Palm app, I would've whipped something up in a minute.
Re:Impossible by Temfate · 2004-09-12 11:14 · Score: 0

I believe you are incorrect about the reason being a pin in the BT card not being connected.

The point was that the Treo hardware (motherboard) can not access the voice data from the Qualcom modem board directly. It's sent out via the speaker without any connection to the motherboards data lines. Thus it was not possible to re-route this voice signal to the IO card socket.

Of course with the new recording abilities of the Treo it's arguable that you could record the audio and play it to the SD card, but the signal loss would have been high.
Re:Impossible by Fnkmaster · 2004-09-12 11:29 · Score: 1

I believe you are incorrect about the reason being a pin in the BT card not being connected.

This wasn't my idea, it was claimed by somebody with better knowledge of the SD Bluetooth cards than I have - remember that these cards were designed for previous generation Palm-type devices to communicate via data with BT-enabled cellphones, not to carry voice.

The point was that the Treo hardware (motherboard) can not access the voice data from the Qualcom modem board directly. It's sent out via the speaker without any connection to the motherboards data lines. Thus it was not possible to re-route this voice signal to the IO card socket.

Of course with the new recording abilities of the Treo it's arguable that you could record the audio and play it to the SD card, but the signal loss would have been high.

Well, as you point out, there is some ability in the API to record the audio stream (you can also control its destination to the speakerphone or the main speaker). So there is some degree of access, though not with a fabulous amount of control or capabilities, to the audio stream from the Treo motherboard. Like you said, actually implementing this would probably require some really hacky stuff like recording the stream to a file and copying it out to the destination (and vice versa). But if the BT SD card doesn't support voice anyway (which may or may not be the case), it would be impossible.

slashdot 'em boys! by sindas · 2004-09-12 08:37 · Score: 0

maybe, if everyone here at slashdot promised, we could offer to not slashdot the programmers website once they are done with the driver! (then they could keep the money, not spend it on bandwidth)

bluetooth is dead! by Nyder · 2004-09-12 08:48 · Score: 0, Flamebait

I have this friend who always talks about how bluetooth is the end all, it's so rad, blah, blah, blah. I then asked him to list all the devices he knows that uses it. Just the cell phone he thought about buying. He mistakenly thought that all computers had it, till I corrected him on that.

I personally don't think that bluetooth is ever going to catch on. It's not a bad idea, but no one is actually implementing it in things that could use it, now. LIke the ipod, like my pda's, my mp3 player, any of my wireless items, or any items I have that should be wireless.

am I wrong? It sounds to me like it's just hype. Like all the companies are waiting for the other companies to start putting it in their products. So they wait, and wait instead of implementing and using.

This is just my opinion based on what I see and experience. I personally would love a bluetooth type item so I don't have to bother connecting my pda/mp3/cell phone (can't even back my cell phone up as it is, pissess me off).

--
Be seeing you...

Re:bluetooth is dead! by ElGuapoGolf · 2004-09-12 08:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

am I wrong? It sounds to me like it's just hype. Like all the companies are waiting for the other companies to start putting it in their products. So they wait, and wait instead of implementing and using.

You're wrong. Bluetooth is starting to appear in more and more cars. It's great to just hop in your car and let the car and cellphone sync up and not have to worry about slapping on a headset, plugging wires in, etc.
Re:bluetooth is dead! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 09:06 · Score: 0

Let's see
My T610 and new V525 phones have Bluetooth
My Palm Tungsten has Bluetooth
My desktop computer has it, as well as my powerbook. Hmm, no shortage of BT here.
re: bluetooth is dead! by comwiz56 · 2004-09-12 09:10 · Score: 1

Couple things: Many many many of the newer cellphone models (esp from Sony Ericsson) are coming w/ bluetooth, which is a very nice feature when couple with a computer and the appropraite software.

And as far as mp3 players/ipods, bluetooth wasn't desined for that kind of stuff. It has a very low bandwidth making it ideal for cellphones, keyboard, mice, etc.
Re:bluetooth is dead! by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2004-09-12 09:15 · Score: 4, Interesting

I think the "XYZ is dead" proclaimations are getting lamer. It is not you, but gee, nothing really dies until everyone, not just the technical elite quits using it. For example, VHS and floppy are slowly going away but is hardly dead.

There appear to be hundreds of Bluetooth products: Bluetooth SIG site product listing

Several PDAs have bluetooth built in. Mobile phones seem to be the #1 device with a bluetooth transciever. I've seen printers in stores that have built-in bluetooth capabilities. With a lot of new computers, notibly laptops, a Bluetooth reciever is often a $50 add-on. I've seen bluetooth cellphone headsets, so there is no cord between the phone and the earpiece/mic unit.

I think for syching, portable music won't work well given the 2.1 Mbps limit of the latest version of the standard, you would be better off with USB 2.0 or Firewire. I really don't think any currently available wireless standard (a, b, g, etc.) is acceptable for transferring large amounts of files anyway.

I do have bluetooth, but currently only the reciever for my laptop, a Logitech mouse and a Logitech keyboard. It does what I need, and a standardized module in my laptop + a third party cordless mouse is far better than any cordless mouse with an easy-to-break USB dongle. I could make it easy with a corded mouse but I think that's messy.

Supposedly there is a wireless USB coming out, but it still doesn't exist yet and will take a while to be integrated into computers. There are no real wireless human interface standards other than what is in Bluetooth where you can mix and match receivers of any brand with peripherals of any brand.
Re:bluetooth is dead! by spectral · 2004-09-12 09:37 · Score: 1

I'm actually going to buy a new cell phone and switch carriers next year just because of the fact that my new car has bluetooth. Sadly, I'm not even joking here.
Re:bluetooth is dead! by ElGuapoGolf · 2004-09-12 10:25 · Score: 1

That's exactly what I did...

Went from Verizon to Cingular, and am much happier now. And in light of how Verizon has crippled their only bluetooth phone, it was a smart move.
Re:bluetooth is dead! by freitasm · 2004-09-12 13:04 · Score: 1

Ok, being a geek, and editor of a site called Geekzone, I have access to quite a few bluetooth devices. I was going to list the ones I have, but then it would be considered a long list to be here. So just check Geekzone for a variety of Bluetooth devices, from LAN Access Points to Audio streaming kits, through GPS and more. I think the number of items is just a small sample (not included are the mobile phones, smartphones and Pocket PC, under other categories).

Since when did anybody care? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 08:50 · Score: 0

If anybody really needed a Bluetooth driver for this thing, he'd've written one. This particular shortcoming of "free software" is a dead horse that's been beaten so mind-numbingly often, it's really hard to imagine why you didn't commit suicide out of simple human decency a moment after you hit "submit".

If TreoCentral really wanted it written, they'd've hired somebody to write it, instead of just issuing a stupid press release. You know, "hire"? Familiar with that word? Okay, fine, you're not, but you can still look it up.

No wonder by janoc · 2004-09-12 08:52 · Score: 4, Insightful

Three month of development for OS 5.x, which is a messy hybrid of old Dragonball code and new ARM stuff with mediocre development tools (e.g. POSE does not emulate OS 5.x machines, AFAIK) ? Are they nuts ? Or did they really think, that somebody is going to plop down money for the dev. kit, sign few NDAs to get the docs and implement it for $5k which probably does not even cover the price of the dev. kit.

Not to mention which Bluetooth card did they have in mind ? The ultra-proprietary Palm one ? As if there was anything else.

Unrealistic expectations doomed this project from the start, IMHO.

Re:Bluetooth sux! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 08:57 · Score: 3, Insightful

I think you mean "Bluetooth on Windows sucks". I have Bluetooth on my Mac, with a 3rd party PC Card mind you, powered by an open source driver none the less, and never had any problem with it!

Give me a break by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 08:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

Why not just hire someone as a real employee to do this. I'm sure there are plenty of qualified people who can do this, but they want to be cheap and make it into a contest.

Nobody is going to get started on a project like this when they don't know how many other people are working on it and how far they have gotten. Why waste a lot of time working on this when at any moment someone else can come out of nowhere and make all your work for nothing.

Reality check. The types of people who can write a bluetooth driver are not slave labor who will grovel around in the mud for your amusement.

Um..troll? by msimm · 2004-09-12 09:12 · Score: 1

And your point? What, like 95% of Windows users who trash on the Amiga OS can write code to save their lifes?

--
Quack, quack.

Re:Um..troll? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 09:34 · Score: 1, Insightful

I originally read that as "code to save their files".. heh.

lives. I believe the word you are looking for is spelled lives.
Re:Um..troll? by msimm · 2004-09-12 13:53 · Score: 1

Lifes. Opps. :)

--
Quack, quack.
Re:Um..troll? by The+Conductor · 2004-09-13 04:54 · Score: 1

Hey, we Amigans are glad when anyone notices we exist.. Trash us, please!
Re:Um..troll? by The+Conductor · 2004-09-13 05:05 · Score: 1

Oh, and by the way....
Over $8000 bounty for an Amiga port of Mozilla. And that's just porting existing code to a documented API that can be emulated on standard PC hardware.

No it's not! by Macka · 2004-09-12 09:17 · Score: 3, Interesting

Apple have a Bluetooth keyboard, and mouse. And I use Bluetooth all the time to sync up the address book, calendar and todo items on my SE K700i with my PowerBook.

In fact probably the most use I have for Bluetooth is when I'm away on business, like this:

PowerBook Phone Internet

Just last week I was in a hotel room with dodgy mobile reception. The only way I could get a good signal was to place the phone on the window ledge in the bathroom. Thanks to Bluetooth I could still sit at the room desk and connect from about 15m away.

Why there was a time limit. by miradu2000 · 2004-09-12 09:18 · Score: 4, Informative

As Senior Editor of TreoCentral.com, the author of the linked article, and overall the man in charge of the bounty, I think it is fair for me to answer the question of why we had a time limit. I do not believe that I addressed this well in the article, so I'll do it here.

First and foremost, I have other responsibilities come September, and I would have been unable to dedicate the time needed keep this bounty running, answer questions, test possible results, etc. The bounty had an end time because it needed closure at some point - we chose to do a post-collection method, and as each month went by more of the credit cards used for the pledges expired.

Secondly, when I started the bounty I had full knowledge of the next generation Treo, currently rumored to be released at the end of October/early November. At the time, specific accurate info on the next generation Treo was publicly unknown, so "want" for bluetooth on the current Treo was high. However, I was aware that this info would leak sometime over the summer, and it did - through an article I wrote a few weeks later. Subsequently, after photos were leaked in August, support from users who may have wanted this solution waned. I'm not saying that all support disappeared - we have many users who really want bluetooth on their current Treo, but many others are now resolved to simply upgrade to the next generation device. At the time, I thought the next gen Treo was going to be released early september, so the goal was to have the end of the bluetooth bounty somewhat neatly coincide with the introduction of the bluetooth compatible Treo.

It's debatable whether 3 months would have been enough time to complete a driver. I have seen some very complex Palm OS applications developed in a much shorter time period. Even so, if in the last weeks of the bounty a developer said "I'm making progress", I would have asked our users to let us extend it. But no developer did, and as explained in the article, the prospects of having a working driver to our specifications were grim.

-Michael Ducker

Re:Why there was a time limit. by ajs · 2004-09-12 11:50 · Score: 1

The problem with your contest is that a developer who writes the code for $5800 is probably going to need at least two, if not all three months. That's between $440-$660/week before taxes for what would undoutably be many late nights, and even then it's just a CHANCE to be the winner... too risky for the reward. You're better off writing some open source software that WILL get used and will end up being a better resume item than "I wrote a contest entry that lost."
Re:Why there was a time limit. by Rares+Marian · 2004-09-12 15:57 · Score: 1

I actually signed up with Palm's dev site to work on this. Problem: horrid documentation and nothing to test it on. While I have no Palm experience I am comfortable finding my way around code and docs.

Oh well. Back to googling for bounties.

--
The message on the other side of this sig is false.

Pay real Money by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 09:20 · Score: 0

if open sourcers attempted that job for $5k, then we deserve all the low paying jobs we get here in the USA

Have some respect people.

Re:Actually I prefer the "s" form by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2004-09-12 09:20 · Score: 1

Um, no. With the spelling you used, it looks more like the word you use that means to command a dog to attack an intruder.

Try again ... by Macka · 2004-09-12 09:27 · Score: 1

Damm, forgot to use ECODE to stop slashdot from mangling my text ...

PowerBook <--Bluetooth--> Phone <--GPRS--> Internet

Rather odd sum .. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 09:39 · Score: 3, Funny

After raising a bounty of $5,812 ...

Well .. for $5,813 I would have done it .. but as it stands ..

Save betamax by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 10:24 · Score: 0

ive done my part, i bought a used Sears Betacord. with 3 worn ass tapes - but im not sure it will do much good

too risky by Doc+Ruby · 2004-09-12 10:51 · Score: 1

Nah, TreoCentral didn't attract any serious developers because of two main factors. They never published a precise spec for claiming the bounty, and the underlying specs for the HW and OS requiring the driver were unpublished. It's hard enough to succeed, and get paid, in the opposite scenario: clear specs from a single customer, and open source/specs for the platform. I'm as impressed with the Treo developers who didn't take the foolhardy risk, as I am with the community for trying to get them to.

--

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make install -not war

Re:too risky by sethstorm · 2004-09-14 13:35 · Score: 1

Obvioulsly you'd call the Manhattan Project too risky not for its nuclear potential, but how the funding was drummed up.

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Re:too risky by Doc+Ruby · 2004-09-14 17:05 · Score: 1

What the hell are you talking about? The Manhattan Project was funded from the US Treasury during a life or death total war with Japan (and Germany, at first). It followed the demonstration of atomic fission at the University of Chicago, and was staffed with the most capable scientists of the day, backed by the unsurpassed industrial capacity of the USA, and targetted a simple, clear, though difficult spec: make a single bomb that can destroy a Japanese city after being dropped from a plane, and make two if possible.

How does that compare with a bounty that represents about 50h of decent pay for developing a driver without platform specs, without acceptance specs, all in parallel competition with other developers who could render your project unpayable by beating you to delivery by a day? For an unorganized group of "customers", communicating only by email, without a business case behind the deadline or even any unstated specs, all in competition with the manufacturer which announced their own delivery halfway before the bounty deadline. To say nothing of the obvious risk of the project amounting to 100%, as no one even started working to complete it.

Do you actually know how to run a software project? For a customer? Do you even know anything about the Manhattan Project? Try again when either side of your bizarre analogy adds up to something.

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make install -not war

Re:Actually I prefer the "s" form by thebudgie · 2004-09-12 10:56 · Score: 0

And yet, he has the correct word. "Psyched" was correct.

Even the Newton has Bluetooth support! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 11:01 · Score: 0

Perhaps the Treo people should talk to this guy http://www.40hz.org/Blunt/

Too Cheap by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 11:03 · Score: 0

Umm, Yeah, what do contractors doing Bluetooth make? And I am going to write you a driver for a weeks worth of development?

Re:Actually I prefer the "s" form by Cloud+9 · 2004-09-12 11:19 · Score: 1

The fact that you, personally, prefer a particular spelling of a word, doesn't make it a correct one.

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Re:no by dykofone · 2004-09-12 11:37 · Score: 1

I read it as True Blue Tooth Fairy Efforts Unsuccesful. But then I had also just come in from a trip outside, where I had looked at the sunset and remarked "looks like a full sun today."

Re:Actually I prefer the "s" form by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-12 11:55 · Score: 0

You gotta admit, "siked" was extra-retarded.

Put the money to better use by RealSiraris · 2004-09-12 12:00 · Score: 0

Palm and cell phone carriers will be announcing the Treo 660 soon, which will have built in Bluetooth capabilities. Thank you and have a nice day.

Re:no by Paradise+Pete · 2004-09-12 12:09 · Score: 2, Funny

Oh, surely I can't be the only person that read "Beotooth"

Maybe not, but I'll bet it was close. And don't call me surely.

You must feel really good now by ellisDtrails · 2004-09-12 12:37 · Score: 0, Troll

Thank you very little. Last I checked there were no spelling rules on Slashdot. I could be wrong ( but I doubt it ).

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Re:You must feel really good now by timothv · 2004-09-12 13:14 · Score: 1

There's spelling rules in the English language though, and that's the one Slashdot uses.
Re:You must feel really good now by lavar78 · 2004-09-12 14:49 · Score: 1

There's spelling rules in the English language though, and that's the one Slashdot uses.
There are spelling rules in the English language. :)

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Hmm, I wonder by Sensible+Clod · 2004-09-12 13:02 · Score: 1

no developer has come forward to claim it

Say, ya think maybe that measly 4-digit bounty might have sumthinta do with it?

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The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me

Bounty should go to improve the OS by mbstone · 2004-09-12 13:38 · Score: 1

Um, how about a $5,812 bounty for a Treo 600 OS that can go 24 hours without crashing??!?

Re:Bounty should go to improve the OS by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · 2004-09-12 16:07 · Score: 1

How about updating your Treo, or sending it back?
I've had my Treo 600 for a few months now. It has never crashed once, neither have I heard it being a problem.

"open funding" is crap for real projects by gad_zuki! · 2004-09-12 13:58 · Score: 1

The whole "open funding" philosophy seems to be crap compared to old fashioned "just hire a guy." Look at this laundry list of stuff they wanted:

So Treo developers, the challenge is up to you. A working Bluetooth driver is a driver that enables the use of a common Bluetooth SD card (Toshiba's, PalmOne's, or Socket's) in the Treo. However, Bluetooth would be useless without drivers written for certain applications. To win the bounty, this driver must enable the Treo to at minimum wirelessly sync to a desktop and exchange files through Bluetooth. The best part of Bluetooth on a Treo is the ability to use wireless bluetooth headsets. Therefore this driver must also enable the Treo to use a Bluetooth headset (added 6/17). Ideally a driver would sync files/hotsync, work with headsets, allow the Treo to be a bluetooth modem, and enable the use of Bluetooth GPS. Only the first two on that list are required.

Gee is that it? They should have gotten quotes from various developers and then forced the community to pay up, instead of having the community declare some arbitrary price and hope someone does something. Notice they just added the headset as a requirement on the 17th with no increase in bounty.

It wouldnt kill them to write a contract and solicit it for pricing. As for 3months? Well, what if we gave them a year? It seems that the problem is that this method is a pretty lousy way to solicit software development.

It's not ultra-propietary. by Ayanami+Rei · 2004-09-12 15:46 · Score: 1

It's the exact same card as the Toshiba bluetooth SD-card. Of course, Toshiba only provides drivers and information Pocket PC.

Sigh.

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THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON

Re:X is dead! by hobbsbutcher · 2004-09-12 16:19 · Score: 1

slashdot definition:

Because I don't have [insert product or service here], [said product or service] is dead!

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Re:Actually I prefer the "s" form by IdntUnknwn · 2004-09-12 23:58 · Score: 1

Hmm, two things. First, the definition of psych is "To put into the right psychological frame of mind." Second, the word you're thinking of is probably sic 'em, which looks more like siked than psyched. :P

Really, where's the book? by ellisDtrails · 2004-09-13 14:10 · Score: 1

I didn't find that on the slashdot homepage.

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Treo Bluetooth Bounty Efforts Unsuccessful

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