Sony/IBM/Toshiba: CELL Almost Ready

"grid technology over broadband connections" by FooAtWFU · 2004-09-15 03:20 · Score: 1, Informative

I'm still on a dial-up modem, you insensitive clod!!!

--
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.

Re:"grid technology over broadband connections" by Corngood · 2004-09-15 06:34 · Score: 1

I'm not sure what that broadband comment is about, but in the article they just say 'high-bandwidth'. In either case I think they are referring to the bandwidth of the communications inside the box, from processor to processor or whatever.

Latency? by digerata · 2004-09-15 03:26 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm sorry, but could someone please explain to me how graphic rendering can be done with something with such high latency as a network connection? Its bad enough when I have to use MAIN MEMORY.

--

1;

Re:Latency? by richy+freeway · 2004-09-15 04:03 · Score: 5, Informative

Does it anywhere say Broadband Internet connection?

No.

Thanks for listening.
Re:Latency? by clutch110 · 2004-09-15 06:16 · Score: 1

Any network latency is much higher than even your main memory.
Ideally graphics memory has that is very quick and dedicated to the graphics gard itself.
Now you may be thinking of distributed rendering, which is a non-realtime process and lends itself well to running over a distributed network render.
Re:Latency? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 06:16 · Score: 0

He was referring to the original poster's comment, idiot.

"The CELL processor is significant because it is touted to utilize grid technology over broadband connections to make the graphics capabilities of the new Playstation many times greater than the competition.""

I can't believe one of your fellow idiots modded you insightful.
Re:Latency? by rsilvergun · 2004-09-15 06:21 · Score: 1

The same way the PS/2 can do photo realistic graphics using the patented Sony Distortion Field (TM).

--
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Re:Latency? by Rayonic · 2004-09-15 06:23 · Score: 1

> The same way the PS/2 can do photo realistic graphics using the patented Sony Distortion Field (TM).

Really? Damn. I knew I shouldn't have thrown out that old IBM PS/2.

--
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
Re:Latency? by Corngood · 2004-09-15 06:41 · Score: 3, Funny

It doesn't say 'network' either.
Re:Latency? by An+Onerous+Coward · 2004-09-15 06:42 · Score: 1

I'm not even clear which side of the argument you're weighing in on. But "broadband" doesn't necessarily mean "over the Internet." Technically, "broadband" means that a given medium has multiple frequencies that can be used as separate data paths, and they're all being used (or a large subset of them, anyways). This is opposed to "narrowband" which means that only one frequency is being used.

This would be technically appropriate if the processer were utilizing optical connections between individual grid cells.

However, I think that they're using "broadband" in its incorrect but common usage, to mean "we can move a honkin' lotta data over these here pipes." So my interpretation is that the CELL has numerous identical nodes, each a processor in its own right, with high-capacity pipes between cells.

Sounds fast, but also sounds tricky to program. I've heard from people more experienced than myself that the PS2 was also a game programmer's nightmare. But I'm not in a position to judge.

--
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
Re:Latency? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 07:02 · Score: 0

P/S2 is a computer port.
PS2 is a Playstation 2.

Get it right, you idiot
Re:Latency? by paule9984673 · 2004-09-15 07:16 · Score: 1

A PS/2 is an ancient computer system. It featured a mouse port that was then later used by other computer systems.
Did I "get this right"?
Re:Latency? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 07:19 · Score: 0

Hilarious!

PS/2 was an IBM PC range that introduced (amongst other things) the mouse and keyboard ports we all know and, err, well fuck 'em to be honest.
Re:Latency? by DAldredge · 2004-09-15 09:04 · Score: 0

Damn, the IQ level of /. is going down at a faster and faster rate.

I miss the before time, from the long, long ago.
Re:Latency? by rvw14 · 2004-09-15 10:55 · Score: 1

And then the absolutely aweful PS/1 was released. I still can't figure out why IBM went backwards in the numbering.
Re:Latency? by Kehvarl · 2004-09-15 11:05 · Score: 1

so in essence, you're indicating that the term "Broadband" is meant to indicate high bandwidth which will allow for better processor-to-processor communication.
I'm going to read the article now and see, but that certainly makes more sense than any other interpretation.
Re:Latency? by drinkypoo · 2004-09-15 11:18 · Score: 1

It's called prerendering and it's often done today, only not quite so far ahead. In fact there have been assorted systems which have done some of the rendering on the host and some on the client, to take load off the client.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Latency? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 22:39 · Score: 0

P/S2 is a computer port.
[...]

Get it right, you idiot

Uh, it's "PS/2", not "P/S2".

Get it right, you idiot

How? by Jahf · 2004-09-15 03:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

We've been hearing about how this processor is going to help broadband connections speed up the system for awhile, often saying it will speed up graphics.

How?

Yes, I get grid technology for massively parallel computing ... but speeding up graphics would:

* require an amazing bandwidth ... 256K down / 128K up (basically the minimum for me to consider it broadband and you have to consider the minimums) is just not going to cut it.

* require insanely low latency ... imagine a twitch game where your ping affected not only model updates but the graphics themselves.

I -have- to assume until someone shows otherwise that this technology does nothing for the -graphics- but rather is used to help with the overall console processing.

Any decent explanations of how Sony et al plan to actually utilize this technology?

--
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.

Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 03:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's all marketing rubbish. They did exactly the same thing with the 'Emotion Engine' chip when the PS2 was being developed.
Re:How? by bhima · 2004-09-15 03:37 · Score: 1

Amazingly there is less information on cell than on bluegene
Both of which are interesting

--
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Re:How? by rmarll · 2004-09-15 03:46 · Score: 5, Funny

This technology allows intimidated japanesee business men to wave their hands in the air and distract you from X-Box 2 announcements.

They're so tiny, and they have massive quantities of unobtanium! The PS3 must be better than X-Box 2.

------------
On a more serious note, I think Cell is more a way to add many processors efficiently to a system. I.E. wait till X-Box 2 specs are known and put in as many processors as it takes to beat them on the tech front. The internet thing is bullshit.
Re:How? by QuantumRiff · 2004-09-15 03:47 · Score: 5, Insightful

The Cell chip is a bunch of little processors on the same die, (think dual core, but its more like 16). the broadband they are talking about is the super high speed bus (on the chip) between the cores. By broadband they are talking about the bandwitdth between the cores, bandwidth is not only a measure of network speed.

--

What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Re:How? by LSD-OBS · 2004-09-15 03:48 · Score: 0, Troll

It smacks of Intel-style media hype idiocy.

P1-MMX: Intel: "MMX makes the colors brighter!"
P2: Intel: "The P2 enables you to get onto the internet!"
P3: Intel: "The P3 makes the Internet faster!"
P4: Intel: "The P4 enables you to download mp3s from the internet and.. ermm.. press (!) them onto CD!"

--
Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 03:52 · Score: 0

I RTFA, but it doesn't mention "grid technology" anywhere. A quick search turned up this, which leads me to believe that "grid technology" is more of an API/design to allow for complex multiplayer worlds where all the Playstations share the workload of simulating the rules of the world (not the graphics). It's not something I'd like to debug, so having some serious programming tools sounds like a good idea. Of course then the PR people started telling reporters about it and we get articles full of half truths.
Re:How? by Oddly_Drac · 2004-09-15 04:19 · Score: 1

I was going to moderate you, then saw your .sig.

They didn't mean a network connection.

--
Oddly Draconis
Too cynical to live, too stubborn to die.
Re:How? by TeknoHog · 2004-09-15 04:45 · Score: 2, Informative

By broadband they are talking about the bandwitdth between the cores, bandwidth is not only a measure of network speed.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it does." ;)
Bandwidth does not mean data-transfer rate, no matter what the marketroids say. They are different quantities measuring different things in different units. Even though they are related in some cases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth
http://everything2.org/index.pl?node_id=871448
http://everything2.org/index.pl?node_id=996851

--
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Re:How? by Godeke · 2004-09-15 04:46 · Score: 1

Actually that is only partly true. Yes, they can put cores on the same device, but GRID computing is linking *networked* devices to share the load. This portion of the capabilities will probably see little use on the PS3 except perhaps as a novelty, unless they plan on selling expansions boxes that put more processors on the machine. If they do so it would complicate development quite a bit and consumers would need to know "minimum Cells" required to run a game. Doubtful that part makes the cut.

In the server applications arena the GRID concept makes sense: if you have work you can farm out to another device while you work on the main line of code, why not? IBM's vision of GRID computing is that compute resources are like the electrical grid: you pull what you need from the grid on demand. Personally I don't see the value for most applications, but it could be a boon for scientific computations that need a lot of power but only run occasionally. If they make it cheaper than hosting your own cluster some research could see advantages.

That said, my wife does statistics on multi gigabyte files, for which "broadband" isn't going to allow her to farm out the work very easily to a grid. Likewise, my database apps are more data intensive than compute intensive. I worry that a lot of work is going into a nitch here.

--
Sig under construction since 1998.
Re:How? by MarsDefenseMinister · 2004-09-15 05:22 · Score: 2, Interesting

IBM's vision of GRID computing is that compute resources are like the electrical grid: you pull what you need from the grid on demand. Personally I don't see the value for most applications

That's not entirely complete, so that's why you don't see the value. IBM will have a great big server farm, with machines filling the room, all subpartitioned.

Company X, Y, and Z will tell IBM "take my apps and host them for me". IBM could host them all conventionally, which is fine. But, they have the technology to use GRID to lower their costs. X, Y, and Z's apps might all be running on the same server, in different partitions. If X suddenly needs 10 times the capacity (for example, HR Block in tax season) their apps will transparently migrate to some faster CPU's somewhere else. IBM just bills for the cycles used, no matter where they are used.

In this way, IBM can fill a room with 100 gigantic servers, and host 1000 customers' apps. Their competitors might fill the same room with 10000 servers, hosting 1000 customers' apps. That would be wasteful, because overall, the server farm might be 90% idle.

GRID computing is a technology, and On-Demand is the product it supports.

--
No weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men.-Ronald Reagan
Re:How? by Godeke · 2004-09-15 06:13 · Score: 1

I see your point, but I was really trying to clarify that the "over broadband" capabilities of CELL chips wasn't really tailored for the PS3, only the multiprocessing in a box.

Nevertheless, I don't see how GRID really helps with data intensive as opposed to compute intensive work. Your example of HR Block during tax season is an great example of why I don't see it working that well. Someone still has to collect and enter all the data. While actually computing the tax liability is quite quick and easy, the data collection is the hard part. How does IBM hosting a grid assist with the data collection? I guess they could treat it as a web farm and have a web app connected to a big database, but where is the efficiency gain here vs having a desktop for the workers with a shared file and data server?

Your later comment about 100 gigantic servers hosting 1000 customer's app is perhaps more of the kind of promise they should be making, but again the problem falls back to data storage. Either they store the data (in which case it isn't a "grid" but just application hosting) or they don't in which case many of the best uses of all that computing power is hamstrung by data transfer.

--
Sig under construction since 1998.
Re:How? by MarsDefenseMinister · 2004-09-15 06:34 · Score: 1

HR Block was just an example I used to show how a businesses busyness can vary over time. i.e. an analogy is an illustraton, not an argument that holds up in situations that weren't addressed.

You're right that it's application hosting. What I was pointing out is that the application hosting environment (transparent to the customer) uses GRID technology to support it.

And as far as data transfer goes, they don't do much of that. Instead of running one app across multiple machines, they are running multiple apps in a single machine. (separating apps and customers in virtual machines). The GRID technology is used to dynamically size the virtual machines anywhere in the farm, automatically. If a virtual machine is maxed out, and the physical hardware needs to be rebalanced, that entire image migrates to bigger hardware somewhere else. The grid management software takes care of moving storage and apps to places where it is available, and filling in idle places with apps that fit the slice size available.

This is GRID, in that it's a utility model. Just like the power company scales power production (not just in a single power plant, but across entire regions of the continent) in response to demand, IBM can do the same thing. Their ultimate cost for application hosting is far smaller than it would otherwise have been, allowing IBM to pass the savings on to their executive bonuses, er, I mean the customer.

--
No weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men.-Ronald Reagan
Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 07:27 · Score: 0

On a more serious note, I think Cell is more a way to add many processors efficiently to a system. I.E. wait till X-Box 2 specs are known and put in as many processors as it takes to beat them on the tech front. The internet thing is bullshit.

The number of APUs in CELL was fixed well before MS picked their processer. The CELL packet format includes a network address. All of this can be deduced by reading the patents. You know nothing.
Re:How? by AuMatar · 2004-09-15 09:46 · Score: 1

He didn't say APUs, he said adding additional processors. Think SMP.

He's also right about networking being bullshit- network latency is way too high for graphics work. So unless they plan on putting in multiple processors on special interconnects, its all a useless pile of buzzwords.

--
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Re:How? by Godeke · 2004-09-15 10:32 · Score: 1

Interesting. I think there are two usages of the word grid being thrown about. The first is a case like what you describe: a closely coupled processing center which can scale based on demand.

However, I have also seen the word grid used to describe SETI@Home type endevors, except in a more dynamic way where idle devices can be enlisted to assist overloaded devices. Obviously the second form can use large application hosting facilities, but it could also use workstations to colaborate on a task.

These people seem to be attempting to do both with one framework.

--
Sig under construction since 1998.
Re:How? by MarsDefenseMinister · 2004-09-15 12:10 · Score: 3, Informative

Actually they are the same. Grid is a term that is more general than Seti-like infrastructure. Grid is the technology that enables other things. In the case of SETI, the technology enables the SETI@home product to run across multiple computers. In the case of IBM, Grid enables their On-Demand product. Hopefully that helps out a bit. IBM has been rather confusing in explaining the relationship between grid tech and On-Demand. In case you're wondering, people inside of IBM are sometimes confused too.

--
No weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men.-Ronald Reagan
Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 14:39 · Score: 0

Yea, why don't you give a citation for the quotes, then? Fucking retard..
Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 21:15 · Score: 0

Because I can't remember where they come from? Yeah, that makes one retarded. Heh, moron. Google it and leave the citation here yourself if you're so fucking smart.
Re:How? by mausmalone · 2004-09-16 00:02 · Score: 1

So basically, by "broadband" they mean "tech-journalism jargon" ... I see now. I was mistaken, though. I thought the Cell system was going to be a simple plug-and-play SMP system (early on they did talk about plugging an extra Cell into your PS3 for added speed... though this may very well have been Sony speaking out of its ass).

--
-=-=-=-=-=
I'd rather be flamed than ignored.
Re:How? by Jahf · 2004-09-16 04:22 · Score: 1

Fair enough ... first time I had seen this distinction and so "broadband" was taken in it's most common meaning.

Are there any pages posted that talk about how this processor's architecture will enable faster information transmission than say Hypertransport?

--
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
Re:How? by Jahf · 2004-09-16 10:34 · Score: 1

In reply to myself ...

an 18month old article so no saying if it was accurate but it is at least a primer.

--
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.

CELL is just hype by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 03:41 · Score: 0

Why bother? You can just buy one that's double the speed in 12-18 months.

Marketing rubbish indeed. by SkyWalk423 · 2004-09-15 03:46 · Score: 0, Redundant

Do they really want us to believe that PS3s everywhere are going to cluster up over everyday broadband networks and share the world's graphics processing load?? Does this mean that Madden 2008 will look much prettier when it's got Internet access? If I take it off the network will it look worse? And does this mean graphical quality will vary depending on the time of day that I play? If it's the middle of the night and the only people playing PS3 at the same time are in China, will my graphics lag?

Rubbish.

Re:Marketing rubbish indeed. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 04:38 · Score: 0

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No

This is not grid computing via telecommunications. No, the sky is not falling.
Re:Marketing rubbish indeed. by UberLaff · 2004-09-15 04:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

Exactly... Anyone remember the emotion engine in PS2? Oh yeah that turned out to be so much more powerful than the other systems... scoff scoff... marketing is crap... theyre all going to be close enough in power in the end...
Re:Marketing rubbish indeed. by SkyWalk423 · 2004-09-15 05:18 · Score: 1

How silly of me... I forgot my tags... Bear with me, i'm still trying to get the hang of this XML notation.
Re:Marketing rubbish indeed. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-16 19:42 · Score: 0

Oh yeah that turned out to be so much more powerful than the other systems...

In terms of raw power, it is. The problem comes with on-board system RAM, and programmability. The EmotionEngine is made to constantly move data through it, not sit and crunch on data like most processors. It's also a RISC MIPS chip, which means it's even MORE difficult to program for.

Buck for buck, the playstation has more processing power than either a gamecube or an X-box (and definitely more than the average desktop box). The problem only lies in the usability of said processing power. If someone could program efficient math libraries for the PS2 linux project, it would become the next LOBOS (lots of boxes on shelves) cluster fad, seeing as they can theoretically achieve over 2gflops per PS2. Dollar for dollar, that's a LOT better than x86 boxen. Again, the weakness of PS2 is not its processor power: it has a small ammount of RAM due to the way you must program for it, and thusly it is incredibly difficult to program efficiently for.

Information on El Reg by Doodlepants · 2004-09-15 03:51 · Score: 5, Informative

El Reg has an informative piece up http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/11/05/sony_cell_ cpu_to_deliver/

Re:Information on El Reg by mausmalone · 2004-09-16 00:07 · Score: 2, Informative

It all makes sense now! The "broadband" quote came from Kutaragi, who either (a) doesn't speak English as a first language, or (b) was incorrectly translated, or (c) is an executive and therefore able to use jargon incorrectly as much as he wants. For anyone scratching their heads about grid processing over broadband, substitute "bus" for broadband and you'll probably start to get it, as he was talking about chip-to-chip communications, not system-to-system. Read the register article in the parent post, too. It has a lot of good details.

--
-=-=-=-=-=
I'd rather be flamed than ignored.

Little Timmy meets P3... by DamienMcKenna · 2004-09-15 03:55 · Score: 2, Funny

"Mom, please hang up the phone, you're seriously affecting my FPS rate!"

Damien

You scientists never learn! by Wylfing · 2004-09-15 04:34 · Score: 2, Funny

Sure, this "Cell" sounds interesting on paper. But things always go horribly wrong.

--
Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.

How NOT to summarise an article by Andy_R · 2004-09-15 04:47 · Score: 5, Insightful

What the slashdot summary of the story said:
"The CELL processor is significant because it is touted to utilize grid technology over broadband connections to make the graphics capabilities of the new Playstation many times greater than the competition."

What the original article actually said:
"the CELL is a next-generation multimedia processor with the ability to handle intensive graphics and high-bandwidth communications."

So much for clarity and brevity.

--
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a

Re:How NOT to summarise an article by kgbkgb · 2004-09-15 06:30 · Score: 1

You've never heard of a poster inserting some relevant information that's not directly out of the article?

How about "This could mean Microsoft will after all make their next generation consoles backward compatible, unlike what was announced in June." in http://games.slashdot.org/games/04/09/14/2257218.s html?tid=211&tid=10?
Or "May not be enough for the biggest NES game, but still enough for the true NES classics." in http://games.slashdot.org/games/04/09/13/2227217.s html?tid=207&tid=203&tid=10?
Or "This might be the end of the hacked by Chinese index pages!" in http://it.slashdot.org/it/04/09/15/1731216.shtml?t id=93&tid=158&tid=95&tid=14.
I could go on forever.

Either you're new here, or you felt like nit-picking.
Re:How NOT to summarise an article by Corngood · 2004-09-15 06:44 · Score: 1

It's not relevant, it's mis-interpreted.
Re:How NOT to summarise an article by Corngood · 2004-09-15 06:59 · Score: 1

I agree, that summary is total nonsense.
Re:How NOT to summarise an article by Mortanius · 2004-09-15 10:32 · Score: 1

I think the intent of the submitter was to create exactly this, a massive argument of people trying to figure out how the PS3 will farm realtime graphics rendering over internet connections, other people trying to tell them that ISN'T what it means and so on and so forth. So far, they did an excellent job, this is by far the most entertaining set of comments to a post I've seen in ages.

Bravo
Re:How NOT to summarise an article by KDR_11k · 2004-09-15 20:49 · Score: 1

According to the moderation manual, deliberately misstating facts to get a response is trolling.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.

what about the wallet challenged by sosuke · 2004-09-15 04:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

does this mean that we cant play games on the ps3 without a internet connection?

Cell is an architecture, not the processor for PS3 by News+for+nerds · 2004-09-15 05:31 · Score: 5, Informative

Cell is a scalable processor architecture, and its prefered embodiment called Broadband Engine in this patent by SCE is expected in PS3.

While broadband in Broadband Engine obviously means high-speed interconnection between its APUs and PEs and PUs and eDRAM in the first place, its double meaning propagates through its optical interface. This Broadband-ness will initially start from optical-fiber intranet in home, then Cell spreads to servers, routers in ISP, and so on to form larger network. Rather than sharing power, its main point is sharing the same language/ISA across the network. X86 is not enough apparently, without network-awareness such as GUID and latency calculation of remote object. The patent states "1. A computer network comprising: a plurality of processors connected to said network, each of said processors comprising a plurality of first processing units having the same instruction set architecture and a second processing unit for controlling said first processing units, said first processing units being operable to process software cells transmitted over said network, each of said software cells comprising a program compatible with said instruction set architecture, data associated with said program and an identification number uniquely identifying said software cell among all of said software cells transmitted over said network. "

I don't know what OS will be used to control them, but Linux must be one of candidates in Cell server-side.

Shenanigans!!! by clu76 · 2004-09-15 06:05 · Score: 1, Flamebait

I'm calling shenanigans on Sony. This is pure marketting garbage. While I'm sure CELL technology will benefit some areas of computing, video gaming won't be one of them for a long time. I can see Sony using this technology to encourage PS3 owners to buy Sony brand cell processor televisions, dvd players, music mans, etc... All for a technology that most game developers won't even bother with.

--
the cosmos in 20 words or less: thumbuki.com

Re:Shenanigans!!! by Chi+Hsuan+Men · 2004-09-15 07:22 · Score: 1

Next person who says the word "shenanigans" around here is going to get pistol whipped!

--
Respect It.
Re:Shenanigans!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 15:46 · Score: 0

Hey, what's the name of that restaurant you like with all the goofy stuff on the wall and the mozzarella sticks?

Re:Cell is an architecture, not the processor for by addaon · 2004-09-15 06:08 · Score: 1

Poorly written patent. Basing it on an ATM netowrk (which does need globally-unique identifiers) isn't covered.

--

I've had this sig for three days.

What it means in a nutshell from a nut... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 06:21 · Score: 4, Insightful

Some people still don't understand, and you call yourself geeks...

The Cell Processor will have, lets say for arguments sake, 10 CPU cores on a grid setup. This means that the work load will be distrabuted through out the 10 cores evenly or where needed. The term grid probley come from the fact that this is how server farms work in theroy. Who knows.

Now for what bradband is... IT IS NOT A INTERNET CONNECTION! They are talking about the pipe/wires/lines/monkeys that will carry the data to the cores, cpu, memory, and such.

You don't need a server farm for the grid, it's not that kind of grid, nor do you need a power station, it's not a power grid eather. You don't need bradband, but it might help if it has a connection for 1Gigbit.

Brush up on your geek myfriends.

Re:What it means in a nutshell from a nut... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-15 15:48 · Score: 0

Hamsters. Not monkeys. And of course you don't need a power grid. Praystation 3 run on love.

When bandwidth is used in the rate sense... by Ayanami+Rei · 2004-09-15 06:37 · Score: 1

...you are to assume that the arbitrary modulation scheme is using the entire bandwidth to transfer data at the shannon limit (right term?)

--
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON

Clever... by automandc · 2004-09-15 07:19 · Score: 5, Interesting

If you look at the ever-promised convergence of computing and consumer electronics, this makes a lot of sense. Starting with just a PS3, Sony can gradually induce you to buy all Sony equipment.

First, they sell you a 4-core PS3 that runs all of the 1st Gen PS3 games. Then, as the developers learn to use the platform, and the development tools get better, the games start requiring more processing power. Sony then starts selling 8-core or more PS3 consoles (and/or upgrade cards).

Second, Sony starts offering other electronics with CELL chips. E.g. televisions with built in MPEG-2 Decoders utilizing CELL processors. So, instead of buying a new PS3, you buy a Sony television with 4-core CELL, and plug in the P3 via Fiber optic for a total of 8-cores. And when you aren't playing games, the TV can use the PS3 for additional decoding power (e.g. for multiple channel DVR functionality etc.).

Then, buy a Sony PC with "media center" functionality, and it has additionall CELLs on board (along with the regular x86), and thereby boosts the whole home "network" if connected via fiber (some propriatary interface Sony will no doubt make big bucks on).

Fiber isn't necessarily new in the home for this type of application. My stereo already has fiber-interconnects for digital audio (DVD, HDTV Cable Box, PS2).

Final stage: all of your entertainment devices are CELL based. Sony starts selling "modules" which do nothing but add additional CELLs to the network. Plug in an additional 4-Core CELL module and you can play PS3 games that won't run on just the console. Sony doesn't need to come out with new consoles anymore, just better development tools, and more consumer stuff that interconnects. ("Sure, you can buy the other toaster, but if you buy the SONY CELL toaster you can play the newest games!")

It's the ultimate in market lock-in, and unlike Betamax, it just may work if the PS3 is widely adopted as just the newest console. If they port Linux and OO to it, they may even give MS a run for their money in the general home-OS market! Wow, it's diabolical.

--
I'm a lawyer with excellent karma. Something's gotta be wrong.

Re:Clever... by KDR_11k · 2004-09-15 08:59 · Score: 1

And at that point Sony will rename it SkyNet and wipe out mankind. We know that story already.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Re:Clever... by aliens · 2004-09-15 10:59 · Score: 3, Insightful

Only problem is that breaks the entire Console way of making games. Game designers who work on consoles know exactly how their game runs on a system. If they have to start creating multiple settings for users to turn on and off it's going to get more complicated I would think. Suddenly they have to count the number of CELL's connected and adjust the game accordingly.

Or release games that have CELL requirements? Sounds good for a techie, but for an average consumer?

kids: "Mommy mommy I want that game it says PS3"

moms: "I guess that means it will run correctly"

At least that's how I see it.

--
-- taking over the world, we are.
Re:Clever... by drinkypoo · 2004-09-15 11:21 · Score: 1

One thing that can scale in video games is resolution. However that's basically dependent on the speed of the core system. Unless you have multiple-gigabit links between nodes it's going going to help with computation which must be carried out that fast. Another thing that can scale is scene complexity when things can be prerendered, probably through the use of multires models - models have thousands upon thousands of polygons which are automatically removed one at a time until the proper speed (frame rate) can be delivered. You can also increase AI processing when you have more nodes; the enemies will be "smarter" (they can consider more data) when you have more nodes. All of this can be done without having to really address cell nodes directly. Other types of computation will probably have to do tuning of the network and that will require more effort in programming for the developer, and not just the authors of the device's (simple but still extant) operating system.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Clever... by bhima · 2004-09-15 23:36 · Score: 1

That all sounds good until they shove some ass stupid "standard" like memory sticks or mini-disks in.
Still if they forgo the usual I'm interested...

--
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Err...what? by JustNiz · 2004-09-15 07:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

>> The CELL processor is significant because it is touted to utilize grid technology over broadband connections to make the graphics capabilities of the new Playstation many times greater than the competition."

I presume this is not what it sounds like otherwise you'd HAVE to be connected to broadband and get good throughput 100% of the time you're playing. ...and where on the net does the extra performance come from?

Re:Err...what? by damiam · 2004-09-15 09:16 · Score: 3, Informative

Broadband refers to high-speed connections between multiple processors on the same chip, within the PS3. The Internet is not involved.

--
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Re:Err...what? by Wyrmw00d · 2004-09-16 01:19 · Score: 1

I'd presume that you're a moron except I don't have to "presume" anything in your case.

*sigh* by Khaotix · 2004-09-15 09:23 · Score: 5, Funny

I swear if one more person posts something illustrating that they think bandwidth means internet connections I'll explo... *poof*

IBM PS/2? by Luigi30 · 2004-09-15 14:44 · Score: 1

I have a PS/2 manual here (the one that's a million pages long) and it shows networking in a grid layout, with different symbols showing connection, no connection, broken connection, transferring data, no computer there, etc... is this what they mean by grid layout?

--
503 Sig Unavailable

The Signature could not be accessed. Please try again later or contact the administrator

an answer and opinion by ihatewinXP · 2004-09-15 15:40 · Score: 1

The "broadband" is actually referring to the interconnect between the processor cores. The /. summary is a bit misleading at first glance, but then it was that confusion that actually got me to RTFA. Sony has been preaching home convergence for so long, I remember years ago first reading in wired the plans for the PLaystation 2 to be your digital hub. Now the Cell is going to invade all of my comonents?

Sony will never again have the pervasive clout to take over your entire living room, not to mention your car, personal player, home office et al. at the same time. I would appreciate a less concerted effort at making everything work together for just a little present day cross functionality. Firewire on all these Sony devices since 199X and still my camcorder cant talk with the ps2, minidisc, or psp?

--
---- The real Slashdot is still here. You just have to browse at -1 to read the comments.

Re:an answer and opinion by some+guy+I+know · 2004-09-15 22:36 · Score: 1

The "broadband" is actually referring to the interconnect between the processor cores.
No, "broadband" actually refers to groups like The Bangles and Dixie Chicks.

--
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana

The Final Hurdle to clear.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-16 02:53 · Score: 0

..is packing that much SCE marketing bullshit in such a tiny space on the chip.

Slashdot Mirror

Sony/IBM/Toshiba: CELL Almost Ready

78 comments