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Catan Online Set to Debut This Month

Thanks to GamingReport.com for the news that http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=14646>The Settlers of Catan Online will make its international online debut at Spiel '04 in Essen, Germany. "Catan Online will launch exclusively at MSN Games this winter. With MSN Games' base of 30 million registered users worldwide, more people than ever before will have access to this global gaming phenomenon." Besides being able to check out the game in depth, MSN is going to be running several tournaments and exhibitions of the game.

150 comments

  1. Open source version by Tim+Macinta · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wonder if they are aware of the open source (GPL) version of Settlers of Catan. Some guy wrote it for his thesis because writing the AI for a game where negotiation plays such a big role posed an interesting challenge. I was addicted to this version for several weeks when I came across it last year and I'd hate to see it disappear (but on the other hand, I don't think it was ever officially sanctioned by the owners of Settlers).

    1. Re:Open source version by Christopher+Thomas · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's also Sea3D, and a number of other open source implementations.

    2. Re:Open source version by mattdm · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not to mention Gnocatan. The AI is poor (I haven't tried the Java version you link to, so I can't compare) and the UI a bit clumsy, but it works pretty well as a networked game.

    3. Re:Open source version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, but his AI's aren't very good. Granted, its nice to play Catan without trying to find 3 other people. There are other Catan implementations as well, but I've not had a posative experience with them.

      Anyone want some Sheep?

      Coward, A

    4. Re:Open source version by gnalle · · Score: 1

      The german site www.brettspielwelt.de has a lot of java games, but the user interface is slightly complicated.

    5. Re:Open source version by CerebusUS · · Score: 1

      I'm positive they are aware of those games.

      But those games won't ever be playable over XBox Live.

      It won't be long until you see MS move it's card/board/casino games from MSN to the Xbox, and until consoles were able do online stuff, those card/board/casino games were the most-played online games out there.

    6. Re:Open source version by gnalle · · Score: 1
      I never managed to find an opponent on the gnocatan metaserver. The program looks really nice but it's not fun to play alone.

      It would be nice to have a common meteraserver system that allows you to start different linux games from a common chatboard. This way small games would also be played even though they did not have th crtical mass to bear a populate a metaserver by themselves. The Gnus gaming zone looked promizing at some point, but I fear that this project is slowing down. Furthermore some developers avoid it because it is too intrusive.

    7. Re:Open source version by mindriot · · Score: 1

      Actually, I would really like to see a network-connected board version of the game. Play on a (slightly electronically enhanced) standard board, connected to the Internet. I just think it's so much nicer to play this game on an actual board... maybe with one or two friends, and one or two more via the net :)

    8. Re:Open source version by tonsofpcs · · Score: 1

      Also, there is http://solito.free.fr/catane/ - flash based

    9. Re:Open source version by tonsofpcs · · Score: 1

      Go ahead and make it :) you can interface via a gameport [or a gameport>usb adapter] easily, parallel a bit more complex (but parallel is not being put on newer machines, and you can't get a true parallel to usb adapter [at least not easily], you can get a gameport>usb adapter easily)

    10. Re:Open source version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have seen the product at a gaming convension and it is terrible compared to S3D (s3dconnector.net).

      The worst thing about it all is that there will be two versions of the game. One online that will be subscription based. There is a ladder system, but you can't choose who you play, which just kills any sort of community attempting to form around the game.

      The other version is a one player local version. It doesn't even have network capability nor a hotseat mode. ***LAME***

  2. no No NO... by nick-less · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'll never signup for a msn account....

    1. Re:no No NO... by lrt512 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure Microsoft will miss you.

  3. Arg! by Glenstorm · · Score: 2, Funny

    First Halo. . . Now Settlers. . .
    Damn you Microsloft!!

  4. Never before has a publisher tried so hard... by disc-chord · · Score: 5, Funny

    Never before has a publisher tried so hard to avoid showing any screenshots on their website.

    1. Re:Never before has a publisher tried so hard... by Second_Infinity · · Score: 1

      Maybe this will run on the Phantom console as well. They seem to share some traits! hahahaha

    2. Re:Never before has a publisher tried so hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Never before has slashdot posted an article about something that doesn't explain what that something is.

      oh wait, they do it all the time

    3. Re:Never before has a publisher tried so hard... by mikeage · · Score: 1

      Never before has slashdot posted an article about something that doesn't explain what that something is.

      oh wait, they do it all the time


      WTF are you talking about?

      --
      -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
    4. Re:Never before has a publisher tried so hard... by moonbender · · Score: 1

      The article text refers to the Settler's of Catan without explaining what that actually is (ie a popular board game). So people who don't know what that is have a hard time understanding anything. Furthermore, this happens quite often on Slashdot. The editors, of course, could just write two sentences to explain it everytime it seems necessary, but they don't.

      I agree the way grandparent said this was a tad confusing.

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      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    5. Re:Never before has a publisher tried so hard... by mikeage · · Score: 1

      Ummm... actually, I understood that. I was making a joke... by asking _him_ what he was talking about... never mind... ~sigh~

      --
      -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
  5. Don't forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gnocatan which is fairly playable on Linux.

  6. This would have been first post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    But I lacked the requisite number of Ores to attain it.

  7. The story is uninformative. by Staos · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Care to tell us what this game is about?

    --
    In Soviet russia, only old Koreans profit from pictures of Natalie Portman stored on Beowulf Clusters.
    1. Re:The story is uninformative. by Zonk · · Score: 5, Informative

      Settlers of Catan is a German Board game created by Mayfair Games. In it, you use cardboard tiles to randomly assemble an island (Catan). You then begin the game by placing two settlements on the board. Each tile on the island represents a resource, with a number between 1 and 12. You roll a pair of dice, and the number that shows up dictates what resources "appear" for that round. Resources are used to purchase roads, settlements, and cultural improvements.

      It's very simple to learn, but *very* hard to master, and is possibly one of the best board games ever made.

    2. Re:The story is uninformative. by James+Turpin · · Score: 1

      It's a board game heavy in diplomacy and strategy. It is well-balanced so that both elements count. (Unlike many diplomacy games where the percieved best player always looses because people gang-up on him.)

      --
      Mathematics is not a crime.
    3. Re:The story is uninformative. by stlthVector · · Score: 5, Informative

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlers_of_Catan

      Settlers of Catan is a board game that started in Germany and is huge in Europe. Apparently there are leages for it over there. Myself and many friends of mine play settlers often.

      It's a great board game because there is a great deal of veriablity from one game to the next. This is due to the board being composed of tiles that change every game and the die roll. Depening on the way the tiles are layed out (randomly), certin resources become more or less valuable and this changes how one needs to play the game. The object of the game is to be the first person to get 10 victory points.

      During the game there is a lot of player interaction as resources are bartered back and forth.

      A game of regular settlers (there are expansions and variations) with people who know how to play typically takes from 30 to 60 minutes.

      The game has some similarities to Monopoly and Risk but is really a completly different kind of game. Most people to like Risk seem to really enjoy settlers.

    4. Re:The story is uninformative. by Khelder · · Score: 4, Informative

      I really like strategy games, and many of the games I like don't appeal to people who aren't really into games. Settlers of Catan is a great game in part because it appeals to people who aren't "gamers".

      I think part of the appeal is that it is pretty simple to learn. Also, although it is competitive, it is not very confrontational or combative compared to most other strategy games. For example, stuff you build (settlements, roads, cities) can't be destroyed by other players. (At least in the basic game set). And, you have to cooperate in the form of trading resources with others, at least in the beginning, or you'll never get anywhere.

      I wouldn't say that it's all that hard to master, esp. compared with games like Tigris & Euphrates or Vinci, but it definitely has a high enough level of strategy to be fun even for fairly hard-core gamers.

    5. Re:The story is uninformative. by Saltine+Cracker · · Score: 3, Informative

      Settlers of Catan is a German Board game created by Mayfair Games.

      As a point of fact, Settlers of Catan was originally published by Kosmos as Die Siedler von Catan and created by Klaus Teuber. See more information Here. Mayfair Games has republished it (3 editions I believe) in English, here in the USA.

    6. Re:The story is uninformative. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Each tile on the island represents a resource, with a number between 1 and 12. You roll a pair of dice, and the number that shows up dictates what resources "appear" for that round.

      If you roll a pair of dice, how does the number 1 ever show up?

    7. Re:The story is uninformative. by bleckywelcky · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Anyone ever play Carcassonne? It might be newer than Catan but it shares some very similar characteristics. I'm not sure if they have any relationship or if it's just because they are both German style games. In Carcassonne the game starts out with 1 landscape tile (could be part of a city, farmland, road, or water feature) and everyone takes turns placing 1 tile and can place 1 "follower" (a guy) if they choose (you have a total of 6 or 7 followers, but there are many more tiles - 71 in total). The followers give you control over certain stretches of a certain type of tile. After all the tiles are placed the game ends and you tally up everyone's score based on what areas they control. Most points win. The game is based on the French city Carcassone (I guess the Germans spent a lot of time there :D). Additional information can be found here:

      http://boardgamecentral.com/games/carcassonne.ht ml

      The game also has a bunch of expansion sets to expand the number of players, add tile types, and to add some new types of followers (originally there was only 1 type).

      I've never heard about Catan before this, but based on my experience with Carcassonne and the description of Catan, I think I'll try to pick up a set.

    8. Re:The story is uninformative. by Specter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree whole-heartedly on the appeal to non-hardcore gamers. My wife, who usually rolls her eyes at this sort of stuff, is a a newly converted hard core addict, as is the rest of my family. Last Christmas I think at least 3-4 new sets of the game were exchanged. Even my Mom puts down the grand-kids when we break the board out.

      This is a very very fun game.

      I'm not so hot on the Knights and Barbarians expansion as I feel it makes the game tedious (in a bad way), but the base set has plenty of replay value and this is truly a game where it's not over until it's over. I've seen some pretty amazing come-backs from players that everyone else had written off.

      Anybody need sheep? Please?

    9. Re:The story is uninformative. by Doctor+O · · Score: 1

      Yeah, actually among my family and friends Carcassonne is extremely popular. It has been said that Settlers is easy and appealing for non-gamers, but from my experience, Carcassonne is a *lot* easier to learn, and I introduced around 30 persons to both Carcassonne and Settlers. It's much more fun, too, because inexperienced players stand a good chance of winning, given they really try and don't play for just killing time.

      Actually, I just realize that I haven't been playing Settlers for years now, but we regularly get out Carcassonne and play - it's even good for two people, which is not true for Settlers (playing several colors per player is not really enjoyable in my book).

      BTW, I'm German and can tell you that Settlers and Carcassone aren't related, they are made by different companies and were designed by different people. There are also other companies making games which are blends of Settlers and Carcassone, but most of them aren't really interesting if you know both original games.

      --
      Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
    10. Re:The story is uninformative. by Kayne_McGladrey · · Score: 1

      Settlers could best be described as a "gateway game". When introducing people to board games, I find that Settlers is one of the easiest games to teach and that people quickly pick up on it. Stores I game at stock Settlers for that very reason - it's easy to get people hooked. However, after an initial addiction phase, gamers tend to move onto harder, more serious games.

      My chief criticism of Settlers is that it's heavily dependent on an element of luck. Resource production is unpredictable, and poor luck (when rolling the dice) can really stymie players for part of the game. This is where the trading portion of the game comes in. More experienced players quickly start assessing their opponents when thinking through trades. Settlers then can evolve into a "screw your neighbor"-style game.

      I can't say that I'm impressed with the notion of putting a mediocre board game online. While there are a few good adaptations (Dark Tower comes to mind if only because it's so rare), I'd rather sit down around a table and an actual board than play it online. Putting it on MSN certainly won't help adoption, either.

    11. Re:The story is uninformative. by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Just a technicality, but the game is *published* by Mayfair, it wasn't created by them. The game was created by Klaus Teuber. In fact, Mayfair is only the American publisher - I believe the German company Kosmos was the first company to produce Catan. Just a niggle, but I think Klaus deserves to have his name assosciated with his own game.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    12. Re:The story is uninformative. by phyy-nx · · Score: 1
      I wouldn't say that it's all that hard to master...

      Indeed. My group of gamers played Settlers regularly for years. Recently we stopped playing because we figured out "best" stratgedies for common situations. After that, the die rolls became too big a factor.

      However, that was with the basic game. I'm still always up for a game of Settlers with the Cities and Knights expansion. That expansion adds so much more depth that it is still a very enjoyable game.

      I still break out the basic game with new gamers though. It's a great intro to the world of germanesque stratgedy games.

      Side note: see how Settlers has game ID 13 in boardgamegeek? It's a classic :)

    13. Re:The story is uninformative. by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Nitpicker.

      Yup, there is no #1.

    14. Re:The story is uninformative. by moonbender · · Score: 1

      tedious (in a bad way)

      As opposed to the kind of tedious you look forward to? I love this game, it's just so tedious! :)

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  8. Much as we all hate MS... by jacksonj04 · · Score: 0

    They do have the infrastructure to pull something like this off. Maybe if more game developers realised that the internet was the ideal self-publishing platform (think VALVe and Steam), or that people like Microsoft have the infrastructure to get things played, then we will see a sudden influx of new, cheap games?

    The only trouble now is that I'll need the MSN application to play it. Curse those proprietary bits.

    --
    How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    1. Re:Much as we all hate MS... by igrp · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Indeed. This is not just about bandwidth and infrastructure though. It's about using your NBR (name brand recognition) to establish yourself in a new niche market. The point is that you get a head start, attract a lot of users and watch your niche market evolve into a major money maker.

      According to this article in Investor's Business Daily, "sales of fee-based content services on the Internet, including games, sports video and online dating, will reach $5.4 billion by 2007". Now, that's some serious dough. And Microsoft is doing what they're good at: supressing stuff they don't like while keeping all their bases covered.

      They already have XBox Live which is a huge hit because they have basically no competition (another example of Microsoft's early-positioning). It's no biggie if something they invest in turns out to be a failure. And that's not because they have all the money in the world. It's because one idea that works easily makes up for 5 failed ones.

  9. As German by Milo+of+Kroton · · Score: 1

    I have no the before unused it. It is before very popular in country, and I have many hours spent Catan boardgame played with friends. Have made modified version Stripcatan and now play for fun when the drinking.

    1. Re:As German by Ignignot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You don't have to be German to enjoy this game. I have a feeling that most slashdot readers will have played this game - it is a lot of fun and is a much more matured board game than something like monopoly. Also, it is constructive (you are trying to get 10 points) than destructive (you are trying to make everyone else bankrupt). A fantastic game, IMO. I happen to work at a commodities trading company, and people here play it every once in awhile. A word of advice: do not play this game against an actual commodities trader. They're crazy good.

      --
      I submitted this story last night, and it didn't get posted.
    2. Re:As German by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      This may seem like a dumb question, but could you share with us some insight on WHY commodities traders are better at this game? The game does not have money as we know it, so I don't see how their skills would transfer.

      I'm very interested in hearing your answer to this as I've always been fascinated at real world professions that translate well into games.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    3. Re:As German by Ignignot · · Score: 1

      They're good at the game because they are able to quickly guess a good price for some commodity (in other commodities). So where one person might trade 1 wheat for 1 wool, these guys will know it is worth 1 wool and 1 wood. Or whatever. They can also guess what the worth would be of building a city vs building another settlement on new numbers. Assuming the city has more dots around it than the potential settlement, it still might not be worthwhile because having all of your stuff come from only a few numbers is much more volatile than having your numbers spread out. Or maybe it would be, especially if you are behind and you're just hoping to get lucky. So yeah, they've got the game down.

      --
      I submitted this story last night, and it didn't get posted.
  10. Phew... by Lars+Clausen · · Score: 1

    I was just afraid I'd have to buy this and spend a lot of time on it, being a long-time Settlers fan. Fortunately, it only runs on MSN, so I probably will not be able/want to use it, and thus have time for other things.

    -Lars

  11. Maybe we'll see Bohnanza Online too... by Saltine+Cracker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Perhaps Uwe Rosenberg will keep up his fued with Klaus Teuber. Each time Teuber released a new expansion/version to Settlers, Rosenberg released another card game/expansion to Bohnanza. Bohnanza is much better than settlers IMHO, but then that's because I like Uwe's wit.

    1. Re:Maybe we'll see Bohnanza Online too... by Bohnanza · · Score: 1

      Needless to say, I'm a big fan of Bohnanza as well. But IMO the expansions wreck both games.

      --

      -----

      Sorry, I'm only a 1336 h4x0r.

    2. Re:Maybe we'll see Bohnanza Online too... by Saltine+Cracker · · Score: 1

      here here.

      My sister in law bought me Isla Bohnita while she was on a trip to Germany a few years ago. Man did it suck.

      Anyway, the only expansion for Bohnanza that I've enjoyed is the extra card set to play up to 8 players. It makes for a really long game, but it's cool having so many people to negotiate with if you've got the right crowd.

  12. Future of online gaming? by Washizu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I really think the future of online gaming is not going to be 3D accelerated shooters. These types of games appeal to a much larger audience and almost everyone has the hardware to handle it.

    Some of my favorite online games?
    Kingdom of Loathing - Hilarious multiplayer RPG
    The Game Show - A daily phrase puzzle similar to family fued.
    Diplomacy - Famous war game without random elements.
    Global Combat - Risk-like war game, except all moves are made at the same time.

    --
    OddManIn: A Game of guns and game theory.
    1. Re:Future of online gaming? by The+Kow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I didn't want to reply to this because I wanted to mod this discussion, but I can't resist:

      You may not realize it, but there's a huge, huge, huge presence of online games that are NOT Counter-strike (or Doom 3, or any other FPS). I'm a huge FPS fan, always have been, but online gaming certainly is moving in other directions - while still progressing heavily in the FPS market, if for no other reason than vendors wanting to push a viable competitive vehicle for them to show off hardware on.

      Sims Online, the virtual morass of MMORPGs out there, Yahoo! Games, Starcraft/Warcraft 3, etc. By the way, I'm playing in the WoW beta, and I highly suspect it will make the biggest splash in the MMORPG world since Everquest, if not since Ultima Online virtually pioneered the genre.

      While I'm on the topic, Blizzard for best game developing studio of the modern gaming era? I can't think of anyone who comes close to their unparalleled success in multiple genres, and if WoW works out as I suspect it will, the gap will just widen.

      --
      Moo
    2. Re:Future of online gaming? by Kaimelar · · Score: 2, Informative
      Wired Magazine had an article a while back that agrees with you:

      The Wrinkled Future of Online Gaming

    3. Re:Future of online gaming? by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      I wish I could agree with you entirely, but Kingdom of Loathing, especially, has really been going downhill lately. I played it for months and bought a Mr. Accessory, but haven't opened it up again for a month or two - there's just nothing to do anymore, y'know? When I started, 99% of the game was "fight monsters, get items, level up", and the "fight monsters" part wasn't fun whatsoever - the only fun parts were finishing quests and getting new items. Now I've got all the Star Garb and I can't kill the final boss because the final boss doesn't exist, and what's Jick doing?

      Penguins! Mafia! New familiars! Yet more random things that don't add anything noteworthy to the game, just increase the number of minor variations a millionfold!

      It's a cool game and all, but he's done absolutely nothing to make it deeper - just wider. I've lost interest. If he started adding really interesting new things, I'd go back, but . . . well, there's just nothing to do anymore, unless you want to get incredibly rich.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    4. Re:Future of online gaming? by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      Blizzard is the most polished developing studio of the modern gaming era. However, they never do anything really noteworthy and imaginative - their games are pretty derivative. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - they're still damn fun games - but it's clear that it's up to other companies to come up with truly new ideas.

      The WoW beta was fun, but there was literally nothing in it that jumped out at me as being spectacular and genre-changing. In the end, it's Everquest with orcs. Both FFXI (with its crazy economy, crafting system, subjobs, etc) and CoH (with a really new combat system and play style) are more imaginative.

      On the other hand, WoW is incredibly polished. So it'll be a good game also.

      I also love how Blizzard has this fantastic epic fantasy universe. I don't know if that was intentional or not (just look at Warcraft I, and note the "storyline" *snicker*), but it was brilliant either way. :)

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    5. Re:Future of online gaming? by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      May I humbly suggest Weboggle?

    6. Re:Future of online gaming? by gphinch · · Score: 1

      I'd like to mod Blizzard +5 Insightful for releasing Mac versions of their games at the same time PC ones come out.

      --
      in bed.
    7. Re:Future of online gaming? by Washizu · · Score: 1

      I'm getting to that point now, too, but you have to admit when you first play the game it's a lot of fun.

      --
      OddManIn: A Game of guns and game theory.
    8. Re:Future of online gaming? by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      When you first play the game it's fucking hilarious and fantastic. :)

      That's why it's so sad what's happening to it - it has so much potential, but instead it's just meandering off into the bushes in a drunken stupor.

      Ah well.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    9. Re:Future of online gaming? by The+Kow · · Score: 1

      Blizzard is the most polished developing studio of the modern gaming era. However, they never do anything really noteworthy and imaginative - their games are pretty derivative. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - they're still damn fun games - but it's clear that it's up to other companies to come up with truly new ideas.

      I think you're dead wrong, and I'll tell you why:

      1 - WoW is geared towards letting players level at a reasonable pace. Many games call themselves 'quest driven', but few of them do it well enough that you can actually progress through the game by primarily doing quests, and doing 'the grind' or dungeon crawling only if you really want to. There are some repetitive quests, it's not perfect, but much of the game is driven by goal-oriented activities, with levels being a side-effect.

      2 - WoW is incorporating instanced dungeons into a true MMO environment. If you've played MMOs at all, think about how much that's going to change the high-end gaming experience. No more camping out dungeons. No more waiting hours for that one loot item. They're allowing for 'raid groups' of up to 40 people to do the really large-scale dungeons, and scaling loot tables to match it. No more stocking up 50-person groups just to get two items. Read the worldofwarcraft.com article on 'raid dynamics' for a full idea of what they're doing with this.

      3 - PvP with an 'honor system', where killing tougher opponents nets you positive 'honor', and killing significantly weaker opponents nets you 'negative' honor, eventually reaching a point where your own home-town's guards will kill you on sight.

      4 - All of this meshed with game quality that blows anything else out there out of the water. The artwork, the storylines, the themes, the worlds, they're all very well-polished. The art is top-notch on every level, from the written to the rendered. The immersion level for this game is very high, and the dynamics are actually fun, so while you do have to work harder for accomplishments at higher levels, it's not ridiculous to the point of Everquest, et. al.

      5 - Battle.net. Hello? You want something new and imaginative?

      6 - Name me a multi-player game like Diablo/Diablo2.

      7 - Warcraft 1-3 and Starcraft were not the FIRST RTS's out there (a distinction belonging to Dune 2), but they pushed the genre into the mainstream, even bringing multi-player online RTS competition into light.

      8 - Ask Korea what they think about how 'noteworthy' they think Blizzard is.

      We both agree that Blizzard is a top-notch developing studio, but I don't think you can viably knock their ability to bring innovation to their games. World of Warcraft has been designed explicitly for the purpose of fixing all the things that were done poorly in previous MMO games, and just because WoW isn't the first game in that genre doesn't mean there's no room for non-derivative work. You can't expect them to pioneer a new genre with *every* game they release, even though they've done it before.

      The best part, to me, about Blizzard's 'epic fantasy universe', is how well-detailed the conflicts are. There is no 'good guy/bad guy', as you can come up with equally dastardly and heroic achievements and motivations for all races in the Warcraft universe, and even the Starcraft universe to some extents. When you're playing the game, it allows you to really get behind the side you're playing, because its easy to think of the other guy as the 'bad guy', while they may feel the exact same way about you.

      The storyline goes beyond some simple, obligatory, and arbitrary storyline:
      [The orcs attacked us. We fought back. We drove them out. We won!]
      and genuinely delves into something that begs to be fleshed out
      [We followed them into their portal, their twisted leader destroyed their home world and fled, his unwitting followers fled to our land, and now we have made them our slaves]. Things actually happen. It's not like the world is at rest, then a s

      --
      Moo
    10. Re:Future of online gaming? by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      You have just proved my exact point.

      I never said Blizzard wasn't good. I never said they didn't have an amazing amount of polish. I just disagree that they bring anything truly new to the genre. Examples:

      (1) "We have quests. Lots of quests!" On the other hand, every game has quests. They just have a lot of them. Cool? Yes. Incredibly inventive? No.

      (2) Instanced dungeons: AO had instanced missions, although (AFAIK - it might have changed since a few years ago) they didn't have named monsters. FFXI has instanced boss fights. Now that I'm thinking about it, I can't think of any games that have instanced dungeons, but there's a lot of games that come really close.

      (3) It's a bit new. It doesn't generate any really new playstyles. It's just a slightly new way to prevent ganking. It doesn't bring any new strategies to the game (that I can think of, at least.)

      (4) Polish. Polish! Polish. Blizzard always has a crazy amount of polish in their games. It's the thing they do better than anybody. But, again, this isn't anything really groundbreaking (unless you count "make polished games" as a groundbreaking idea, and admittedly, it does seem to be something nobody's figured out except Blizzard.)

      (5) I'd love something new and imaginative. How is battle.net that thing? Combine Quake 1 and Meridian 59, and, bam, Battle.net.

      (6) Everquest: Champions of Norrath. Angband. Ultima Underworld. Hell, do a search for "dungeon crawler the underdogs" on Google, you'll get a whole slew of them. No, I can't think of any old ones that were in third-person isometric off the top of my head, but then again, I haven't really looked.

      (7) Yes. This is EXACTLY MY POINT. Blizzard doesn't do new things - it does things that have already been done, and does them really fucking well.

      (8) Ask Americans what they think about how 'noteworthy' Britney Spears is. Noteworthy-in-terms-of-popularity has nothing to do with quality (which Blizzard has), and neither of those has anything to do with inventiveness.

      My point is that I can't expect them to pioneer a new genre with every game they release. In fact, they haven't pioneered a new genre with *any* games. They're really really good at doing old genres really really well. I'll grant them that. But they're not imaginative.

      I'm glad they're around - they're making some fantastic games. But if I had to choose one game company to survive, and all the others would be destroyed, I sure wouldn't choose Blizzard. I'd be dooming myself to a life of really well-done games with no brilliantly new ideas.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    11. Re:Future of online gaming? by The+Kow · · Score: 1

      One man's innovation is another man's polish, then. You're saying that taking a worn genre like MMORPGs, figuring out what all was wrong with the genre as it stood, and then setting out to fix them, wholesale, isn't an innovative idea. I think, especially for the gaming world, that it is. I think most game developers come up with a few ideas, then craft a game around it. Blizzard's approach isn't one that's just vested in its own in-house talent. The quality in their games is the product of a comprehensive look at what features people do and don't like in their and other people's games, and how they can be made differently. They take a few ideas, make a game, *then* go back and polish it. VIRTUALLY NOBODY ELSE DOES THIS. Everyone else gets a game ready, throws it out, then releases a few patches if there's anything horribly wrong.

      Additionally, no company has ever given quite the attention to multi-player gaming as Blizzard has. Nobody's come even close, except Valve, when they took up Counter-strike as an official product. The only other thing that really wanders into the vicinity of this is id's initial push into creating a mod 'community' for the quake series. Even this was something that was pushed largely by fans of the game, and id simply realized it'd be a good idea to give fans more leeway to make these things happen on their own.

      You criticize point 7 by saying that it proves your point. How? How does pushing a genre that was done only once before (with mild success, at best) into the mainstream, bringing it to multi-player, carefully balancing the gameplay such that it can still be an active and competitive gaming venue some 6-7 years later, and creating the entire battle.net frontend to catalyze the process NOT qualify as innovative? You don't have to invent a new wheel to be innovative.

      If you go over this with any more fine-toothed of a comb, you're going to bring this down to the ridiculous belief that there is no such thing as innovation because every idea is somehow derivative of another, which is a foolish conclusion.

      If you want to boil it all down, it comes to this:

      - Battle.net
      - Instanced (potentially massive) multi-player RPG.
      - Starcraft, the single longest-standing competitive PC game on the world stage.

      I have no idea what you mean by 'Quake 1 + Meridian 59 = Battle.net'. I looked up Meridian 59. Its an MMO with an ugly interface.

      Battle.net has no connection to MMOs whatsoever. From a software perspective its a glorified IRC client. The innovation is in the fact that it serves as an easy interface for even the least advanced gamer in the world to get involved in a game, start playing, and keep track of his statistics. The fact that your best example had to involve a hybrid of two games, is evidence enough of the fact that there really isn't anything like it out there.

      Lastly, regarding point #8, 'noteworthy' was your own words. The point was that this game was built to allow for top-notch competition, and while it may seem trifling if you're not interested in this sort of thing, it has had a huge effect on cultures outside of yours and mine. So while the scope of its significance may not be readily apparent, it is actually quite broad. It was *years* before any company took their game's multi-player online competition seriously enough to actually spend time refining it. Many companies still don't, and simply put a multi-player mode or two in as a throw-in to a single-player game.

      --
      Moo
    12. Re:Future of online gaming? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      I'm fairly certain I recall AC2 having instanced dungeons. EverQuest 2 also has them. There might have been others. EQ2 is really cool, incidently, I'm enjoying it a lot. I'd love to see WOW, but alas I'm in Germany and Blizzard apparently thinks it's a really cool idea to restrict their betas to North America. I guess I could try to work around that with the upcoming "open" beta but I can't be arsed. Maybe they'll have EU beta or demo eventually, I certainly won't consider buying without trying for a couple of weeks.

      As for Blizzard, they might get an award for producing lots of good games, but they should also get one for producing some of the most rabid fanboys. Especially WOW has got a huge number of people treating it like some kind of second coming, people who go away from other MMRPGs hating the genre thinking WOW will magically totally remove the grind from the game. I'm sure many of those really will like it a lot, but I don't know whether it's because they needed the Blizzard label to give it a real go or because the genre as a whole has progressed a lot since the first days of EverQuest. I'm also sure, and have witnessed, a lot of those people who hated MMRPGs will be direly disappointed my WOW. (Note that as I said, I haven't seen it myself, and I'm sure I'll personally like it a lot - but I tend to like MMRPGs in general.)

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    13. Re:Future of online gaming? by The+Kow · · Score: 1

      So people who don't like the genre aren't suddenly going to like the genre. That's.. great?

      BTW, they did do a European beta, which just went out a few weeks ago. Sorry if you missed out on it. They're doing an open beta soon, too. Maybe you can get in on that.

      I don't know if you're insinuating that I'm one of those 'rabid fanboys', since I've done what I could to be ultimately objective, but it's to be expected that the most succesful gaming company would have the most rabid fanboys. I don't count myself under that banner, but.. whatever.

      --
      Moo
    14. Re:Future of online gaming? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      So people who don't like the genre aren't suddenly going to like the genre. That's.. great?

      I agree that it's a trivial point, but as I said, many, many people just assumed that would be the case.

      They're doing an open beta soon, too. Maybe you can get in on that.

      The open beta they announced a couple of days is limited to North American residents, like I said. Of course it's not out of the question that they'll start an independent beta for the rest of the world.

      I don't know if you're insinuating that I'm one of those 'rabid fanboys'

      Nah not strictly. Of course, it's not like someone's either a fanboy or not, it's an analogue thing.

      the most succesful gaming company

      See? That's what I mean. At the very least, that's an extremely subjective choice, since there is no widespread definition of the order, ie what constitutes being a more successful gaming company than others. I most certainly disagree, actually I wouldn't want to put that label on any single company - but that's also just my own very subjective opinion.

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    15. Re:Future of online gaming? by The+Kow · · Score: 1

      the most succesful gaming company

      See? That's what I mean. At the very least, that's an extremely subjective choice, since there is no widespread definition of the order, ie what constitutes being a more successful gaming company than others. I most certainly disagree, actually I wouldn't want to put that label on any single company - but that's also just my own very subjective opinion.


      I took a step back from attempting to qualify their merit and just said 'succesful', which I think is a lot easier to validate *and* agree with. Blizzard has not had a failure yet. By all signs, WoW won't be a failure either, whether or not it lives up to the hype. I've been a fan of gaming for many, many years, since before Warcraft I, and I cannot think of any software company that can wrest that title from Blizzard. The closest is perhaps id, but they've had a few misses with Quake 2 and Quake 3 (which was a tremendous multi-player game, but not at a point where multi-player could really drive a game's sales).

      If you can think of any better examples I'm all ears. Maybe Maxis and its Sim franchise? I don't think it has quite the international presence that Blizzard does, though. Anyway.. if you disagree, do let me know who you have in mind instead. If you look at every title Blizzard's released, though, through the Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo lines, it's a tough case to make otherwise.

      --
      Moo
    16. Re:Future of online gaming? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      As a matter of fact, my first thought was Maxis due to The Sims, or more accurately, Electronic Arts which Maxis is merely a subdivision of these days. EA also seems to be extremely successful in general - whether deservedly so or not. I'm not sure about The Sims' international presence, either, but it's sold the most games worldwide and that's that.

      It's really a matter of what success exactly is. For what it's worth, Blizzard does have a track record of releasing critically acclaimed games, no doubt about that. But that's just one sort of success.

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    17. Re:Future of online gaming? by The+Kow · · Score: 1

      EA doesn't produce games, really, they just handle the licensing/distribution/etc., like Activision did for ids earlier stuff (do they still, I don't know..?). They also do QA for their games, and maintain a lot of the production studios as almost in-house, but they're still production teams, and should be viewed as such.

      I suppose you could hold Blizzard to a similar standard since they do have Blizzard and Blizzard North, so maybe it's moot. Still, if you look at signal to noise ratio, you'll find that every one of Blizzard's games has not only been critically acclaimed (which really means little, I think), but financially succesful, and wildly popular. Really, it seems like EA releases games like farts, and some of them are just worse than others. Okay, maybe that's harsh, but they produce a lot of really awful games in addition to their more succesful titles.

      Regardless, I think Maxis is as close as you can get to a contendor, and if you factor in Blizzard's international success (very popular in Asia and Europe, both), I don't think Maxis has quite that much of a claim, even though their games do reach a broader base and an easier learning-curve.

      I have to disclaim that I don't have any figures to back up my estimation on Maxis' influence, just gut feeling from following the gaming world reasonably close over the years.

      --
      Moo
    18. Re:Future of online gaming? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      You still haven't defined what kind of success you refer to, so it's fairly vain to discuss what company is more so than others...

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  13. So any day now we'll see: by Gentoo+Fan · · Score: 0

    OMFG have you seen the The Settlers Of Catan trailer?!?>11` ...

    1. Re:So any day now we'll see: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      KLAUS TEUBER IS ON TEH SKOKIE

  14. BrettSpielWelt has had this for a while... by GTarrant · · Score: 2, Informative
    One has been able to play the Settlers of Catan (a fun board game, albeit one that seems to fall by the wayside for many 'serious gamers' when they move to other German-style games) online for a while. BrettSpielWelt (BSW), http://www.brettspielwelt.de/ has a number of games of this sort - Catan, Puerto Rico, San Juan, Princes of Florence, as well as some abstracts, like Dvonn and Yinsh by Brum.

    For those that really enjoy board games, it's a fun place (and there are many people that speak English there too).

  15. Cost? by joeytsai · · Score: 1

    How much will it be to play this game? Will there be a monthly fee?

    I will give you two grain. No? Okay, two grain and a brick?

    --
    http://www.talknerdy.org
    1. Re:Cost? by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      Five sheep? Ten?

      Please! I've got to get rid of some of these sheep!

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  16. Questions by otlg · · Score: 0, Redundant

    First of all:

    What is this game about

    Secondly:

    Why is this news at all..

    Thirdly:

    wtf does this game look like and why should I even care about it.

    Maybe I missed something, but I read the story, visited the site, read the comments here and I still don't get it.....

    1. Re:Questions by webhead04 · · Score: 1

      I play catan online a couple of times a week and also play tabletop about once a month. Catan has been online in various forms for a while.

      You can play basic catan online at http://settlers.cs.northwestern.edu/.

      You can also play online using wancatan and wannagame to find other players.

      What is catan?
      Catan is a game of resource gathering and trading.
      The resources you get are determined by the roll of the dice and what tile intersections your towns are built on. The neat thing is that the board is made up of land/resource tiles and these tiles are also assigned random probabilities markers.. so that each game is different. There are a few different expansions that each add a different flavor and layer of complexity to the game. I think the best way to play is with all of the expansions combined, basic catan is fun, but the expansions make the game great.

    2. Re:Questions by Flyboy+Connor · · Score: 1
      Other posts tell you what the game is about.

      Why is it news? I assume it is considered news because Catan has been one of the most popular family-oriented boardgames for many years now. The rights to put it online have probably been coveted by many publishers. The fact that MSN got it is reason enough to worry (do you need a "passport" to join? will they sue heavily the open source versions?).

  17. Boring? by alephnull42 · · Score: 1

    Maybe I haven't played it often enough, but Catan feels like "Civilization for Pre-schoolers on Valium".
    It seems to be about as far as you can go in the area of resource strategy games without losing the mainstream audience.
    If they translated the rules 1:1 (or near that) for MSN, I fear it may turn out too simlble/boring/slow for the internet crowd.

    IIRC it's based on a good clean wholesome family board game with almost as many expansion packs as The Sims, and there just ain't enough good plain killing & warfare in the game :)

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    1. Re:Boring? by Brandybuck · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe I haven't played it often enough, but Catan feels like "Civilization for Pre-schoolers on Valium".

      There are significant disadvantages to Civilization. First it takes 6+ hours to play to completion. Second if you fall behind one turn you're behind forever and might as well go home because you've lost. Third, there is no randomness to position, so that every game is much like every other game (imagine playing CivIII with only one possible map and starting positions).

      On the other hand, Cataan can be played in as short as one or two hours, the outcome is never assured, and every game is different.

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  18. Brettspeilwelt? by boinger · · Score: 3, Informative
    What's wrong with the one on Brettspielwelt? It works perfectly for me (and if you can play it on Linux, you can likely play it on anything).

    I didn't know the games there were a secret. :)

    There's also Carcasonne ("CC"), Lost Cities, Go, Puerto Rico, etc, etc.

    I hope I'm not inviting a hard slashdotting if they can't take it, but it sure would be nice to have a few more players on there with some regualrity :)

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    1. Re:Brettspeilwelt? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I do enjoy carcassonne. Apparently there's a Windows PC version available in Germany.

    2. Re:Brettspeilwelt? by Incadenza · · Score: 1

      It works perfectly for me (and if you can play it on Linux, you can likely play it on anything).

      I never got it to work under MacOSX. 8-(
      I would have loved to play Puerto Rico on-line.

    3. Re:Brettspeilwelt? by Incadenza · · Score: 1

      I do enjoy carcassonne. Apparently there's a Windows PC version available in Germany.

      The reviews I read didn't like it, because of two reasons:
      - Cluttered screen, no good overview as you would have on your table top (well, it's a lot of cards you have to fit in 17")
      - AI too good. Computer has exact knowledge of the cards that are in play, makes it seems more as a psychic than as an opponent.

    4. Re:Brettspeilwelt? by boinger · · Score: 1

      Really? I played on MacOS 9, I assumed it would work on OSX - were you using Mozilla (or Camino)?

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    5. Re:Brettspeilwelt? by Incadenza · · Score: 1

      Firefox (Mozilla), JAVA 1.4.1

      But, this time I checked the FAQ. They've also got a downloadable client, and it works more or less (machine froze during 1st install, ok on 2nd install, no chat window on first run, has chat window on 2nd run). Off to deciphiring the boards it is.

  19. German style? by PCM2 · · Score: 1
    One has been able to play the Settlers of Catan (a fun board game, albeit one that seems to fall by the wayside for many 'serious gamers' when they move to other German-style games) online for a while.
    OK, I'll bite. What's a "German-style" game?
    --
    Breakfast served all day!
    1. Re:German style? by nomadic · · Score: 1

      OK, I'll bite. What's a "German-style" game?

      Any game can be! Just make sure you always go by the rules, try not to have fun, and for gods sake don't chat or laugh while you're playing.

    2. Re:German style? by Hank+Chinaski · · Score: 1

      complicated rules, addictive gameplay. inventive game mechanics. settlers of catan is just one example.

      --
      IAAL
    3. Re:German style? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The relatively new (7 years) terms Euro-games, or German-style games describe a class of boardgames that have been coming from (mostly) Germany over the past decade.

      These games, of which Settlers is probably the best known, have a distinctly different flavor from traditional (American) boardgames. The key differences are:
      -Racing over elimination. Players remain involved in the the game until it ends, and victory is usually determined by who achieves certain conditions first.
      -Constructive play. There is generally little "screw your opponent" strategies available in these games by design. Advancing your own position is rewarded more.
      -Predictable length. The target is generally 60-90 minutes, and the designers are realistic about this. Indeterminant length is pretty rare.
      -Strong theme. Most of these games have a decently strong theme applied to the game with lots of variety.

      The terms "German-style" or "Eurogame" are used frequently in the boardgaming community, and generally also imply a certain quality level. The games do not have to actually come from Europe to qualify, however.

    4. Re:German style? by Bohnanza · · Score: 4, Informative
      OK, I'll bite. What's a "German-style" game?

      Most of the best board games published these days come from Germany. I don't really know why. These games share common features:

      Quick playing - usually no more than an hour or so,

      No players are eliminated during play,

      There is usually no "combat" and if there is it's only a small part of the game,

      Simple rules but the games require careful strategy,

      The games are usually not "simulations" of anything but rather have a "theme" pasted over clever mechanics,

      Usually luck does NOT determine the winner,

      Nice components, usually including wood pieces,

      Go to http://www.boardgamegeek.com and check out the top-rated games.

      --

      -----

      Sorry, I'm only a 1336 h4x0r.

    5. Re:German style? by Saltine+Cracker · · Score: 1

      OK, I'll bite. What's a "German-style" game?

      Basically, they are not American-style games where the game play follows the roll-the-dice/take-your-turn theme. Very few American style games are interesting to old/young adult audiences. You don't see many gaming groups of 20+ somethings getting together to play Candy Land or Chutes and Ladders.

    6. Re:German style? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Monopoly, Risk, Axis?

      I fucking hate Risk by the way, Axis is where it is at if you want that kind of game. As for Catan, I've played it before, but didn't find it that interesting (I hate negotiating).

    7. Re:German style? by Jagasian · · Score: 1

      Most board games come from Germany because there are 1 or 2 large monopolistic board game companies in the USA. These companies do not care about innovation... they only care about selling cheaply produced boardgames that have been around for decades.

    8. Re:German style? by Vermifax · · Score: 1
      Basically, they are not American-style games where the game play follows the roll-the-dice/take-your-turn theme

      You mean like the good ol roll-the-dice/take-your-turn game of Die Siedler von Catan?

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    9. Re:German style? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean like the good ol roll-the-dice/take-your-turn game of Die Siedler von Catan?

      He probably implied "and move your piece along the board", which is a feature of not only candyland and chutes&ladders, but also Sorry, Life, Monopoly, and Trivial Pursuit.

  20. Given the topic... by ArsSineArtificio · · Score: 3, Funny
    I, for, one, welcome our new resource-stealing thief overlords, and would like to remind them that as a trusted poster on Slashdot, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their 3/1 brick ports.

    --
    All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
    1. Re:Given the topic... by Alsee · · Score: 2, Informative

      3/1 brick ports

      Poser. Everyone knows brick ports are 2/1.
      Chuckle.

      -

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  21. It would have been nice by comwiz56 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    It would have been nice to have provided a link explaing what "Settlers of Catan" is other than some informationless Microsoft site.

  22. What's the deal with the copyright on this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Haven't there already been several lawsuits over just who is allowed to develop this game for the PC?

  23. This is especially interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    There are at least three different environments for playing settlers of catan online.

    http://www.s3dconnector.net/ is a very nice client, with lots of options for choosing 'house rules'.
    Also because of the ladder setup, many people don't quit just because they're losing, a perpetual problem with onlinegaming environments.

    http://solito.free.fr/catane/ is a nice client, but there's no rating system, so not so many people use it.

    http://settlers.cs.northwestern.edu/ is the 'original' site. It lacks the nicer graphics, but is often heavily loaded, with lots of players around, (when it's up)

  24. Ah, Settlers of Catan... by g33kgirl · · Score: 4, Funny

    The game that gave us the unforgettable quote: "I have wood for your sheep!"

    They actually have a t-shirt with that quote on it. Gamers giggle, and everyone else gives you a lot of room.

    --
    You don't have to be the person you've become.
    1. Re:Ah, Settlers of Catan... by Saltine+Cracker · · Score: 1

      Please provide linkage to this t-shirt. I haven't seen it but would love to buy one!

    2. Re:Ah, Settlers of Catan... by Coffee+Warlord · · Score: 1


      I've always preferred "Yaks make good bricks."

      It just rolls off the tongue. :)

    3. Re:Ah, Settlers of Catan... by CaptMonkeyDLuffy · · Score: 1

      Ah, but what about the venerable "My wood should be coming up, but it's not!"

  25. Construction, destruction, and shades of grey. by Christopher+Thomas · · Score: 1

    Also, it is constructive (you are trying to get 10 points) than destructive (you are trying to make everyone else bankrupt).

    For Settlers of Catan, the distinction is kind of blurry. While you do have to play in a way that builds up your resource base, a large part of the game is figuring out how to best screw over the other players (placing a settlement so as to prohibit several other settlement placements, figuring out where to best place the robber, figuring out how to deny "longest road" and "largest army" to others for long enough to win, and so forth).

    So while there's no direct violence against the other players, there's plenty of indirect pressure being applied. Such is the nature of competitive games.

  26. Other less-random games by Tenzen01 · · Score: 1

    Settlers of Catan (and the variants: Seafarers, Spacefarers) is a fun game and something we always seem to come back to on our gaming nights.

    However, one of the things that many people dislike about it is the die rolling. Too much is dependent on what the outcome of the die is. Even if you play it smart by trying to cover the odds and occupy as many numbers as possible, your success depends on whether the right combo of resources you own comes up.

    Our boardgame group has been steering away from games that involve lots of chance (die rolling and card drawing), to those that involve all strategy such as Peurto Rico & El Grande (all players start out equal and must form strategies based completely off other people's actions). Makes for more intellectually intensive a game and less random.

    But ultimately you need a mix of games. Light, fluffy, easy games...thought-provoking, strategy-heavy games, and lots of things in between.

    1. Re:Other less-random games by funpaul · · Score: 1

      El Grande has at least as much chance as Settlers of Catan!

      The action card mechanism of El Grande leads to massive swings in the game situation, and can lead to quite chaotic outcomes. Settlers die rolls at least settle into a bell curve.

      Have you tried the Cities and Knights variant of Catan? There is just as much die-rolling, but the increased roll of development cars lets you plan ahead for a big combo. You may find it more to your liking if your group wants a meatier game.

      I don't see anyone having linked to it yet, so here is a pitch for boardgamegeek.com, which has excellent discussions on this and other topics.

  27. A few more by gnalle · · Score: 1

    Roborally - Program a robot (the best game ever)

    Puerto Rico - Kinda fun, (Requires curl)

    Brettspielwelt - many games including catan in german.

  28. Settlers: A gamers game for non-gamers by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 1
    The game has some similarities to Monopoly and Risk but is really a completly different kind of game. Most people to like Risk seem to really enjoy settlers.

    That's a good way to put it. The recent German board game invasion has brought lots of games that serious gamers can play with non-gamers. (Gamer: n. One who enjoys table-top games including board games, war games, card games, and role-playing games, as a primary hobby.) Several friends who really have no idea what I see in something like Twilight Imperium will enjoy Settlers of Catan.

    That said, I eventually grew tired of Catan. A game that does similarlly well with non-gamers and gamers alike is Carcassonne, a tile placing game about building and controlling roads, fields, and cities.

    1. Re:Settlers: A gamers game for non-gamers by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 1

      Settlers of Catan is good, but has the problem that it is often possible to tell early on who a guaranteed loser will be, and yet still have over half the game time remaining to play out. I really don't like boardgames that do that because they make it really suck to be that player who is losing, and for the other players it sucks to have to listen to that player whine about how hopeless the game is, especially when you realize he's 100% correct about that hopelessness. The fact that a house or road cannot be removed or change hands once played on the board means it is quite easy for one player to end up getting "boxed in" such that it is 100% impossible for that player to ever make any real progress.

      Now, in games where that doesn't happen, Settlers of Catan is a lot of fun, but it seems to be that about 50% of the time I play, the above scenario ends up happening to someone.

      Carcassonne is better because you actually *can* do things to screw up the other players a bit more.

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

  29. a new obsession by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe now I can turn my daughter from a Neopets obsessive to a Settlers obsessive, and at the same time get her to stop nagging me to play the board version of Settlers of Catan with her. It's a fun game, but never, never, ever play it with anyone who is under 20 or extremely competitive/obsessive.

    ---Christina

  30. 30 million users?! by ciryon · · Score: 1

    Thirty million registered users? Isn't that like 10 % of all (legal) windows copies out there? Or are they counting all MSN accounts (incl. hotmail) as "MSN Gaming Account". Heck, even I have a MSN account - from the time when Hotmail was untainted by Micro$oft. Haven't used it in years, but it still appears to be 'active'.

    ==
    God is a Numerical

    1. Re:30 million users?! by tonsofpcs · · Score: 1

      If I remember right, a hotmail account lets you play the MSN web-based games, but the ones you need to download an app to play require a Zone account [you can use the same name/email, but it needs to be registered for MSN Gaming Zone (or whatever they are calling it now)].

  31. Catan online by webhead04 · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://settlers.cs.northwestern.edu/ This is the java applet version of basic catan, four player max and you are able to play against bots. Two positives are that you can play solo(against 3 bots) and since it's an applet there's nothing to download/install(play from work.. who? me?!?) Using wancatan and finding players via wannagame you can play with any or all of the expansions, different maps, rules, sounds, dice roll tracker, more players etc.

    1. Re:Catan online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not exactly, rescently you have only been able to play with one robot. This has made the expeirence much nicer since the limitted capacity of the server is not filled up with those needing to boost their egos against hapless AI opponents.

  32. Oh NONONONONO by sense_net · · Score: 3, Funny

    I will never be productive again. Please don't roll a 7.

  33. A much better boardgame portal by Hoplite3 · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is a much better boardgame portal. You need to configure it to use english instead of german (if that's your language of choice), but it has a great community and lots and lots of german board games. If you aren't familiar with classic titles like Saint Petersburg, Puerto Rico, and Carcassone, you should really check it out. These games have been beautifly adapted to the java interface, so anyone can play with any OS with java support.

    The german style of boardgame is interesting. The games are under an hour, you may be down, but you're never out, and it'll be your turn soon. The are easy to learn but hard to master. Unlike the American designers, the germans don't like direct conflict or random chance. Instead, there's a lot of resource denial and bidding strategy.

    Brettspeilwelt has a metagame that advances players in rank. Experienced players have more control over games, and can build game rooms of their own. Generally, playing space, in terms of server resources is optimally allocated this way. There's a lot of prestige in offering the new game and so forth. Also, the Germans are very polite gamers. No cussing or racial slurs, just "good luck and have fun" type comments. If you like boardgames like Settlers, this is the place to be.

    --
    Use the Firehose to mod down Second Life stories!
    1. Re:A much better boardgame portal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you configure the brettspielwelt.de site for english? I love those games, but don't know how to go about playing them on the server.

      Many thanks,
      Josh Wilton
      jwilton@spymac.com

  34. How realistic? by jandrese · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Are they going to make this like the real Settlers of Catan where the dice that come with the box seem to skew (and change the skew randomly?).

    I don't know how many games of Catan I've played where the dice suddenly seemed to start rolling 2,3, and 4 over and over again then suddenly start rolling a huge long string of 9, 10, 11... Around here the Catan dice are infamous for that behavior.

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
    1. Re:How realistic? by waytoomuchcoffee · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't know how many games of Catan I've played where the dice suddenly seemed to start rolling 2,3, and 4 over and over again then suddenly start rolling a huge long string of 9, 10, 11... Around here the Catan dice are infamous for that behavior.

      Um, ALL sets of dice are infamous for clumping behavior. You might want to look at a basic book of statistics.

      A famous example of clumping in real life (and how we perceive it) can be demonstrated by convincing two of your friends to perform a little experiment. Have one toss a coin 100 times and write down the results. Have the other write up a "random" assortment of 100 heads and tails that they came up with in their head. Don't let them tell you which person used which method, instead tell them you will figure it out. Ninety-five percent of the time, the person flipping the coin will generate a series of seven or more heads or tails in a row. You almost never see this in the list the other person makes up, as they invariable think that seven or more in a row will never happen.

      In terms of what to expect in a game like Settlers, similar clumping of production numbers will occur. Just like the person making up the heads/tails, this will seem extremely unlikely (or really bad/good luck), but it isn't; what seems to be really strange clumping is in fact quite common.

      You have to assume weird clumping will happen, and plan for it. For example, consider spreading out your production centers in the early game onto different numbers so this has less of a chance of happening to you. This is especially important if you are playing a strategy that emphasizes cities (i.e. the ore-grain strategy), as you will have less production centers (and by extension, be located next to fewer production numbers) to begin with, and therefore are at a greater risk from clumping.

    2. Re:How realistic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hehe, sounds like Games Workshop dice.

  35. On randomness by Mablung · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think one of the things that many people like about it, whether they know it or not, is the die rolling. It all depends on what you consider fun.
    If your idea of fun is to see who is best, or who has the best strategy, or who has the maddest skilz, then you don't want an element of chance. But for alot of people, that element of chance gives you a kick of adrenaline even when you've worked out your optimal strategy. You can still play with your brainiac friends (who will always beat you at chess) and still hope to win. Why do you think gambling is so addictive?

  36. Re:Screen shots? by Fenris+Ulf · · Score: 0, Redundant

    It's a board game.

    Click here for info.

  37. Re:Screen shots? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A board game? Is that why the last word in the title is ONLINE?

    Dumbass.

  38. Re:Screen shots? by antdude · · Score: 1

    Fenris Ulf: Thanks!

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  39. Not as good by Bequita · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's no way this can be as good as playing the actual board game, because you miss out on the family dynamics of game play, such as watching your mom chuck the dice at your dad, or one's husband deliberately putting the thief on your only stone hex, and then somehow drawing the only stone card in your hand, as if he could see where it was... Not that I speak from experience or anything. No, not me...

    Somethings are just meant to be played in the actual world.

    --
    Yes, there are women on Slashdot. Deal with it.
  40. Diplomacy by Aexia · · Score: 1

    One of those "no chance" games. My gaming group loved it. I hated it. The game takes forever, games inevitably saw any aggressive players getting squashed and then the rest declaring a 4-way joint victory because no one wanted to take any risks. Stopped playing with them after watching 3 games in a row play out exactly the same way.

    1. Re:Diplomacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, Diplomacy is pretty heavy duty. I have seen friendships end. I would suggest Puerto Rico or Tigris & Euphrates.

      Ta

  41. For mad table top scheming... by Boronx · · Score: 1
    Nothing beats Junta.

    Is there an online version?

  42. Warning by Mr2cents · · Score: 1

    It's very addictive, too; *everyone* I invited to play this game has bought it. *Everyone*. Be warned.

    The nice part of the game is that you're always busy; even when it's not your turn you receive resources, you can trade with other players (although you can only trade with the person who's turn it is). The constant interactions suck you into the game, you're not waiting 80% of the time for your turn.

    Also, with games like Risk you can lose early in the game, with Catan this rarely happens. Put all this together and you have a perfect recipe to spend a fun evening with some friends.

    --
    "It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
  43. PS2 version by Capcom by asdren · · Score: 1

    was it ever released?
    http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/puzzle/cata n/news_6023 908.html

  44. Missing Moderation Options by Thedalek · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not to nitpick, but "-1, Inaccurate."

    Settlers of Catan is the English edition of Die Siedler von Catan, a German Board game created by Klaus Teuber, and published by Kosmos verlag GmbH in Germany, and Mayfair Games in most of the English-speaking world.

    In it, you randomly build a hexagonal island out of smaller, hexagonal tiles. Each tile represends a resource (wool/sheep, lumber/wood, brick/clay, ore/stone, grain/food: These are some of the names that the five resources are known by), each with a number from 2-12. Etc, etc, etc. You know what, just look here, or here.

    Part of the appeal of Settlers is its scalability: For beginners starting out for the first time, there's the basic set, which remains fun several plays later. More advanced players, or those craving a bit more variety, can snap in the Seafarers expansion, which adds the option for larger maps, alternate victory conditions, and scenario-specific points and goals, while those wanting a more micromanaged approach can try the Cities & Knights expansion, which allows players to build up their specific cities with improvements, and generally mess with the core game.

    The popularity curve tends to favor Seafarers over the basic set and Cities & Knights, but they all have a pretty strong following.

    Also of note are the other Catan games, including:

    Starfarers of Catan
    Starship Catan
    Settlers of Catan Card Game
    Candamir: The First Settlers (which is not yet released or even translated).

    Then there's the novel, the computer games, and the whiskey bottle edition. No, seriously.

    --
    Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
    1. Re:Missing Moderation Options by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Then there's the novel, the computer games, and the whiskey bottle edition. No, seriously.

      Yeah, it's pretty disgusting. I mean, we own the original game, and it's great. I've never tried the expansions, but obviously they add a lot to the game. But Starfarers of Catan, a card game and a novel? That's just milking a cash cow. Now, I'm all for exploiting idiots, but maybe they went a bit too far. ;)

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    2. Re:Missing Moderation Options by Thedalek · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's pretty disgusting. I mean, we own the original game, and it's great. I've never tried the expansions, but obviously they add a lot to the game. But Starfarers of Catan, a card game and a novel? That's just milking a cash cow. Now, I'm all for exploiting idiots, but maybe they went a bit too far.

      Actually, the card game is extremely good, Starfarers is unique enough to be it's own game (and it is), and Starship Catan is probably my favorite of the bunch. And the novel was written by a fan. They're not quite milking it yet.

      Now, if the game gets republished with a Simpsons theme, I'd say they're milking it.

      --
      Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
    3. Re:Missing Moderation Options by moonbender · · Score: 1

      I'm sure they're all great, but as I see it they are using brand name of the enormously popular first game to sell the others. That's milking in my book, no matter if the products sold are good or bad. Many of the expansions to The Sims were also quite neat, and the target audience loved them.

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      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  45. Re:The post is unintelligible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    leagues, variablity, Depending, laid, certain.

  46. Re:Screen shots? by Fenris+Ulf · · Score: 1

    I bet you sneer at the idea of playing Solitaire without cards, too.

  47. Re:Screen shots? by Vermifax · · Score: 1

    That couldn't possibly be because its an online board game, now could it.

    Nice sig file, is that your name?

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    Vermifax

    Logout
  48. Re:Screen shots? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it's online, there can't be any board. If there isn't any board, it isn't a board game. It's an online strategy game.

  49. Re:Screen shots? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I sneer at the idea of playing solitaire, period, because I'm not a lame fag.

  50. Not hard to master, you just can't... by nietsch · · Score: 1

    Although it is a very nice game to play, esp the JSettlers version, this is no game you can master in a sense that when master, you win all games. You won't even win most games if you are playing experienced people (and you won't win when playing against me ;)
    The dice play a much to big role in this game, so most just depends on luck. It is a nice passtime, but don't think it was all your work when you've won a game.

    amelie ;P

    --
    This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
  51. No play at work for me--Websense bastiches! by ysaric · · Score: 1

    Not for me . . . WebSense filters all.

    --
    Happy goldfish bowl to you.
  52. Closed source version by huntybunz · · Score: 1

    There's also the version that Capcom released exclusively in Japan for PC, PS2, GBA, and soon N-Gage. (webpage is here: http://www3.capcom.co.jp/catan/index.html )

  53. Online Board Game community by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does everyone interested in online board games know about these sites:

    www.gametableonline.com

    and

    www.ccgworkshop.com

    Both are great but the folks on gametableonline are very good about teaching the games and there is always something on the calendar - and people actually show up for the games. Very recommended.