Cherry OS Claims Mac OS X Capability For x86

So, you're asking by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-12 05:51 · Score: 5, Funny

If anyone has popped the cherry on CherryOS yet?

Re:So, you're asking by Triumph+The+Insult+C · 2004-10-12 05:53 · Score: 5, Funny

well, it would appear as though the OS on their webserver has been popped. does that count?

--
vodka, straight up, thank you!
Re:So, you're asking by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-12 06:01 · Score: 3, Funny

Jimmy, why do you always use such tasteless humor! Now come upstairs out of the basement, lunch is ready. And I removed the crusts off of your sandwiches, just like you like. The milk is warming in the microwave too, and the cookies are fresh.
Re:So, you're asking by m_chan · 2004-10-12 06:32 · Score: 4, Funny

CherryOS.. run Apple software on Lemon hardware.
Re:So, you're asking by !Freeky2BGeeky · 2004-10-12 06:43 · Score: 4, Informative

but that's linux/ppc not linux/X86

--
Visualize Whirled Peas
Re:So, you're asking by mabinogi · 2004-10-12 10:39 · Score: 3, Informative

Rhapsody is alive and well - it's called OS X now.

Rhapsody wasn't the name for the x86 port, it was the name for the next generation Mach + NeXT Step based MacOS, which is what became OSX.

It doesn't suprise me that they had x86 builds early on, but I could hardly say they "Made an x86 OS"

--
Advanced users are users too!
Re:So, you're asking by steeviant · 2004-10-12 16:47 · Score: 4, Informative

Nah, you're thinking of something else. There have been numerous aborted attempts at creating a next generation Mac OS under a variety of strange code names like Pink, Taligent and Copland.

Rhapsody was the name of the OS [strategy] developed under the leadership of Gil Amelio, it was heavily based on OpenStep (moreso than OS X), hence it's cross platform capabilities. Apple also had a version of the Rhapsody frameworks that ran in NT, which they inherited from NeXT. At that stage, the name for Cocoa was YellowBox, and the Classic environment was called BlueBox IIRC. There was no equivalent to the Carbon frameworks in those early days, which was the subject of much debate.

Steve Jobs became Interim CEO after Amelio's departure in 1997 and killed the cross platform versions of Rhapsody along with the Mac 'clone' industry. About a year later Apple announced the name change from Rhapsody to Mac OS X. They released Mac OS X Server in 1999, followed a year later by the almost unrecognisable OS X Public Beta.

Check out these screenshots, which (in order from top to bottom) show the gradual progression from NeXTstep's multi-column Browser to Mac OS X 10.3's Finder*.

NeXTstep
Rhapsody
Mac OS X server 1.x
Panther

*yes, I skipped the aqua Finder.

recipe for a slashdotting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-12 05:52 · Score: 5, Funny

Wow, there is a recipe for a slashdotting-- let people run OS X on the cheapest ahrdware they can find...

Re:recipe for a slashdotting by Phroggy · 2004-10-12 05:57 · Score: 3, Funny

Wow, there is a recipe for a slashdotting-- let people run OS X on the cheapest ahrdware they can find...

If their web server were running OSX, it might work a little better...

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:recipe for a slashdotting by John+Harrison · 2004-10-12 06:02 · Score: 3, Insightful

and then run your webserver on Windows using ASP for static pages.

--
Lasers Controlled Games!
Re:recipe for a slashdotting by devphaeton · 2004-10-12 06:07 · Score: 3, Funny

If their web server were running OSX, it might work a little better...

No, but it would have had a more lickable error message.

I mean, that's what Apple is all about- licking stuff.

--

do() || do_not(); // try();
Re:recipe for a slashdotting by djdavetrouble · 2004-10-12 08:14 · Score: 5, Funny

this bears recalling the excellent beos browser haikus:

These three are certain:
Death, taxes, and site not found.
You, victim of one.

delivered with a 404.

--
music lover since 1969

That was quick. by Spackler · 2004-10-12 05:52 · Score: 5, Funny

They saw us coming around the corner!

Server Error in '/' Application.

Just a dot away from a PERFECT error message.

Finally... by Daimaou · 2004-10-12 05:53 · Score: 5, Insightful

I've always wanted to try OS X to see if I'd like it, but I've always thought buying a Mac was an expensive way to "test drive" OS X, and thus have never done so. $50.00 on the otherhand is quite reasonable, I think. Perhaps I'll finally give OS X a try.

Re:Finally... by over_exposed · 2004-10-12 05:56 · Score: 5, Informative

You still need to buy a copy of OSX. It's gonna run you a *tad* more than $50...

--
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
Re:Finally... by krunk7 · 2004-10-12 06:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

I find nothing morally wrong with downloading a torrent if your intentions are to "try before you buy". I do this with every game before I buy. I give it a week, if I like it I buy it.....every time.
So try osx, just make sure you give it fair shake, the first time I tried it I didn't particularly care for it. But after giving it a thorough try out (e.g. not just fiddling in spare time, but used as my main os for a month) I never put it down.
cheers,
-james
Re:Finally... by Kenja · 2004-10-12 06:21 · Score: 5, Informative

"Yay permissive Apple licensing!"
According to the license you cant run the OS on an emulator because its not "Apple hardware".

--

"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Re:Finally... by Ford+Prefect · 2004-10-12 06:21 · Score: 4, Funny

Not if one out of your five computers already runs it. Yay permissive Apple licensing! :D

Yay permissive Apple licensing not allowing the running of MacOS X on a non-Apple-badged computer!

Although...

Is this why I got a bunch of Apple stickers with my own iBook?

--
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
Re:Finally... by Trolling4Dollars · 2004-10-12 06:21 · Score: 4, Insightful

Yesssss... but have you paid for it now??? ;P

--
Un-news
Re:Finally... by mrchaotica · 2004-10-12 06:26 · Score: 3, Funny

hmm... crap. Maybe "Yay that Mac OS doesn't have product activation so they won't really be able to tell and it's not as if I'm sharing it with the entire world anyway" instead?

Of course, I wouldn't even need real Mac OS on my PCs if stuff like iTunes and Safari would run on x86 with GNUStep and X11 -- oh well : (

--
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Re:Finally... by squiggleslash · 2004-10-12 06:51 · Score: 3, Insightful

Then buy an Apple keyboard and plug it in a spare USB slot and hide it around the back. You've introduced the missing Apple hardware into the equation.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:Finally... by slashdot.org · 2004-10-12 09:17 · Score: 4, Interesting

According to the license you cant run the OS on an emulator because its not "Apple hardware".

Then there are those of us that wonder the legality of such statements in license agreements. For example Apple could also put in the license agreement that you need to give up your first born child.

The real legality of such statements is only known after it has been tried in a court of law, which AFAIK it has not.

On top of that, some argue that the entire license agreement is BS. By law, a contract requires two parties to agree. Some argue that this agreement needs to be in place at the time of purchase. With most shrink-wrapped software you've no idea what you are agreeing to at the time of purchase.

Even if the software vendor would argue that you could return the software if you don't agree, there's a simple way to avoid agreeing to the license.

Basically when you open the package to get the CD out, don't read _anything_. I know the envelope may have some disclaimers about agreeing to a license agreement, well better not read that. You bought the software, you've no obligation to read everything that's being presented.

Same goes for the installation; just blindly hit the highlighted button until the installation is done. If it doesn't work, try the non-highlighted button every once in a while.

The point is, that it's very hard for a software vendor to proof in court that you actually agreed to the license agreement. "You have to hit 'I agree' to install. You got it installed, so you agreed!". I have no idea what you are talking about, I thought 'I agree' meant the color of the button was agreeable.

You could say, well, that sounds like saying that you didn't read a contract that you signed.

The difference is that when you sign a contract, you and the other party specifically sit down for the exact purpose of signing a legal document.

When you buy software, you've no idea that you are about to enter into a legally binding contract. So you simply ignore all the stuff that doesn't make sense to you (like you do with most purchases).

Of course, how well this would hold up in court is just as unproven, but there seem to be some lawyers (which IAN) that think that it will.
Re:Finally... by damiam · 2004-10-12 12:12 · Score: 3, Informative

The G4 and especially the G5 have a helluva lot more registers than the P4. Whatever the relative benchmarks may be, it's extremely difficult to emulate a PowerPC on x86 at decent speeds, because there aren't enough registers.

--
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.

Oh Boy! by JoeLinux · 2004-10-12 05:53 · Score: 5, Funny

Now I can have my life-long dream of running a Laserwriter using appletalk!

Re:Oh Boy! by drinkypoo · 2004-10-12 05:56 · Score: 5, Informative

If you put the laserwriter on an etherprint box of some sort, you can print to it using Linux (or Solaris) with netatalk. Laserwriters speak Postscript so nothing could be easier to support once you get them talking. I did it back in the days when a 486 was a tolerably fast computer and it only took me a few hours to get running including compiling the software and building a new kernel with appletalk support.
I know you were just being a smartass, a time-honored tradition around here, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to be informative.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Looks... non-existent by Rosyna · 2004-10-12 05:53 · Score: 5, Insightful

The screenshots are missing (last I checked), the site is full of spelling errors and they called it "Apple Install Shield". It being Installer.app, I guess?

Emulating a G3 at 80% might be within the realm of possibility if I was on LSD. However, saying you can do a G4 (which implies AltiVec) is just not possible. Seriously. That'd be like emulating SSE3 on a G5. Ain't gonna happen.

Re:Looks... non-existent by Datasage · 2004-10-12 05:59 · Score: 5, Informative

Not only that, but there is no information about the company on the website.

Its got that feeling of an overnight company. The whois record was only registered in july.

It wouldnt supprise me if its some company that took pearPC and is trying to sell it.

--
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
Re:Looks... non-existent by dalutong · 2004-10-12 06:03 · Score: 4, Insightful

I would guess they won't because either 1) they have some no-compete-on-x86 clause with their deal with MS or 2) they couldn't have quite as nice an experience with x86 -- if you don't control the hardware it is much harder to have such a nice stable system

--

What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
Re:Looks... non-existent by forkazoo · 2004-10-12 06:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

That, and there would be no apps, a huge amount of cost for technical support, and if 100% of the Apple user base switched over to OS/X x86 (by some miracle every app ever was ported), THEY WOULD STOP BUYING MACS!

Apple has had an "escape plan" for years. The original plan was called Star Trek, and it was a port of classic Mac OS. Now, it's called "If we wanted, we could recompile the GUI for almost any platform gcc targets in probably a few hours."
Re:Looks... non-existent by forkazoo · 2004-10-12 06:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

Have you actually worked with either instruction set? "It's probable that most instructions will map directly" is not a compelling technical argument. I'm not going to clasim to be an expert, but I have dealt in passing with both SSE and Alti-Vec. There isn't a 1:1 mapping. Even if there was, the differences in register layout make emulating AltiVec a bit inconvenient, to say the least.

I'm trying to boggle over how exactly one would go about trying to do it. My brain keeps insisting that register starvation really is an issue. I guess they just have a lot of stuff sitting in L1 cache, and keep a really tight loop for the emulator core. Regardless of the actual marketing claims, if it works, I'm impressed. They should just be very careful about letting Marketing make empty promises. If they fail to deliver, they are sunk, and have no credibility. If they had just made no speed specific claims, they wouldn't have to worry about failing to live up to them.

Future Slashdot Story Idea by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-12 05:53 · Score: 5, Funny

Running MacOS using CherryOS on Windows using VMWare on FreeBSD using Linux binary compatibility.

Re:Future Slashdot Story Idea by lordandrei · 2004-10-12 06:04 · Score: 4, Funny

You mean you don't want to run the palm emulator of FreeBSD first?
Re:Future Slashdot Story Idea by Smiley8410 · 2004-10-12 06:26 · Score: 4, Funny

Running MacOS using CherryOS on Windows using VMWare on FreeBSD using Linux binary compatibility ...on a dead badger!
Re:Future Slashdot Story Idea by mikefe · 2004-10-12 06:26 · Score: 4, Funny

Why emulate when I was born with two native ones?

--
There: Something at a specific location.
Their: Owned by someone.
Please make sure your english compiles.
Re:Future Slashdot Story Idea by Lord_Slepnir · 2004-10-12 06:35 · Score: 3, Funny

What I want to see: Someone running MacOS on CherryOS on Virtual PC on MacOS.
Re:Future Slashdot Story Idea by julesh · 2004-10-12 06:37 · Score: 5, Funny

I don't believe FreeBSD runs on dead badgers. You'd probably have to install Linux and then use Bochs to run it.

Now where did I leave that reanimation scroll...?
Re:Future Slashdot Story Idea by MADCOWbeserk · 2004-10-12 07:45 · Score: 4, Funny

I don't believe FreeBSD runs on dead badgers

I think there is a NETBSD port for that platform.

Re:Site is dead? by savagedome · 2004-10-12 05:53 · Score: 4, Funny

Try this instead.

--

Free XBox, PS2

OS X on PC's??? by bpatterson · 2004-10-12 05:53 · Score: 5, Funny

What a perversion.... I'm going back to getting my Cuisenart to run Debian. - B

Re:CherryOS goes down! by johnnyb · 2004-10-12 05:54 · Score: 4, Funny

It's running DotNet. [troll]It will probably be down for the rest of the day.[/troll]

--
Engineering and the Ultimate

I'll finally... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-12 05:54 · Score: 5, Funny

I'll finally be able to play all those games I can't get for the PC platform.

I'd like to see a comparison by RangerRick98 · 2004-10-12 05:55 · Score: 5, Interesting

I wonder how this CherryOS would compare with PearPC in terms of speed and functionality. Of course, I don't know much about either product, so I might be comparing apples to oranges (or Cherries to Apples?)

--
"You're older than you've ever been, and now you're even older."

Re:I'd like to see a comparison by mmusson · 2004-10-12 06:03 · Score: 5, Funny

Or cherries to pears?

--
SYS 49152
Re:I'd like to see a comparison by zach_smith · 2004-10-12 06:34 · Score: 3, Informative

I'll bet they will have amazingly similar speed and functionality. How much do you want to bet that CherryOS is ripping off PearPC source code without giving them credit?
Re:I'd like to see a comparison by Saeger · 2004-10-12 06:35 · Score: 3, Informative

PearPC is really, really, really slow, though it is making progress. For comparison against CherryOS's claim that it runs the guest 80% as fast as the host, it takes PearPC over 5 minutes just to boot MacOSX 10.3 on my 1.2GHz Athlon running Suse9.1 (kernel 2.6.5).
PearPC is free/FREE, though, and I only use it for Safari compatibility testing, so its speed isn't a major issue for me.
--

--
Power to the Peaceful

Re:There's your problem... by ganhawk · 2004-10-12 05:55 · Score: 5, Funny

No. you got it all wrong. It is actually IIS running on a virtual PC inside Cherry OS inside a normal PC.

--
Python script to convert photos into "artsy" portraits: http://p2pbridge.sf.net/pyPortrait/

Uh... by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2004-10-12 05:56 · Score: 3, Insightful

Yeah that will piss bill off. People that wanted to buy an apple will just buy a windows pc, Cherry and OSX. That will really tick him off. Drain off all of the apple hardware margins and increase windows revenue. Life must suck for him right now.

--
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.

one has to question the 80% speed claim by HBI · 2004-10-12 05:56 · Score: 4, Interesting

Even without reading the site. Never mind the shortage of general purpose registers on x86 and the lack of a direct mapping between instruction sets, one has to question any vendor that is running on IIS with debugging enabled and with the .NET framework enabled.

For the reasons why - just look at their site right about now.

--
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.

Re:one has to question the 80% speed claim by Ignignot · 2004-10-12 06:55 · Score: 4, Informative

Never mind the shortage of general purpose registers on x86 and the lack of a direct mapping between instruction sets

I won't, because the x86 line has lots of general purpose registers now. They just pretend to be whatever special purpose ones the programs need (if any). We've come a long way since the 386.

--
I submitted this story last night, and it didn't get posted.

Cherry Os by null+etc. · 2004-10-12 05:57 · Score: 5, Funny

I tried it today... it crashed when I clicked the right mouse button.

Fraud by Mr.+McGibby · 2004-10-12 05:59 · Score: 4, Interesting

As pointed out on the comments on the article page, this is most likely a fraud. Writing a VM isn't the easiest thing to do. This software would likely cost much more than $50 because of the effort involved.

--
Mad Software: Rantings on Developing So

Re:Fraud by hotspotbloc · 2004-10-12 06:40 · Score: 5, Funny

Lagos, Nigeria. Attention: The President/CEO
Dear Sir,
Confidential Business Proposal
Having consulted with my colleagues and based on the information gathered from the Nigerian Chambers Of Software And Emulators, I have the privilege to request your assistance to transfer the sum of $50 (fifty United States dollars) into our accounts in exchange for a Mac OS X emulator that runs on your MS Windows PC. Great cost has gone into the research of this software and it must be transferred as soon as possible out of the country.
While there is no demostration copy available for testing I can assure you that you will be able to run Mac OS X at full speed on any computer with a Pentium III or faster. Screenshots will soon follow after we receive your check (complete with routing numbers).
Thank You And God Speed,
Howgul Abul Arhu

--
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST

Re:CherryOS goes down! by dekropisvol · 2004-10-12 05:59 · Score: 4, Funny

LOL, got maybe a license for 5 connections :)

Re:one problem by ShdwStkr · 2004-10-12 06:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

behind on your security patches then, are you? :)

Re:but.. by yamla · 2004-10-12 06:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

Most of my software development takes place on ix86 machines, targetting Windows and less often, Linux. It just isn't worth the cost for me to buy an Apple computer.

I'm not saying they aren't good value for money or anything. But if I could compile and test software for OS X on my ix86 system, that could well be worth the purchase price of the software and a license for OS X. Provided, of course, it is fully compatible and runs at a decent speed.

Heck, if they really are close to 80%, this is a pretty good deal. If I was to buy Apple hardware anyway, just for testing, I'd likely end up with a 1.25 Ghz eMac or whatever. The emulation route would result in a much faster OS X system for me as my ix86 computer is generally always quite high-end.

--

Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

I have no idea by antifoidulus · 2004-10-12 06:00 · Score: 3, Informative

if this will work or not, but if it does, Apple legal won't be happy. The EULA states that you have to run OS X on Apple branded hardware(probably to kill clones), now I am willing to bet for the time being anyway, Apple will look the other way on non-commerical projects like Pear PC, but they probably won't be very keen on a commericial product that violates the EULA.

--
Monstar L

Re:I have no idea by vhold · 2004-10-12 06:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's really a double edged sword for Apple.

Pro: PC users buying Mac OS, PC users buying Mac OS software, PC users going 'Hmm Mac is great, I think I'll just buy a Mac for my next computer'. Basically it way lowers the bar for introduction to the platform, seems like a MASSIVE win for Apple.

Con: Mac users not really utilizing their macs from a horsepower perspective, they are just browsing internet, email, a few things, they think, hmm, I could buy a cheap Dell, put this on there, and probably have an ok machine... hmm. Or... Mac users with an inclination towards games, it's an obvious win for them to have a real PC for games and use MacOS for absolutely everything else that isn't nearly as performance related. Aka: -Actual- hardware competition for Apple.. That alone will probably drive Apple into a frenzy.

I personally think the pros outweigh the cons, just simply because there are a ton of people that will never even try Mac simply because of the high cost and risk of introduction. This could lower that bar to almost nonexistant.

Re:MirrorDot is Useful by DigitalRaptor · 2004-10-12 06:01 · Score: 3, Interesting

Yeah, exept MirrorDot mirrored the site AFTER it crashed. That's funny. Maybe they should change their name to ErrorDot.

--
Lose Weight and Feel Great with Isagenix

From the CherryOS Site: by TitusC3v5 · 2004-10-12 06:01 · Score: 4, Informative

MXS Inc. announces CherryOS 1.0 October, 08 2004

NEWS RELEASE FOR IMMEADIATE RELEASE Contact: Jim Kartes, 866-661-5699 jim@vx30.com Media contact same.

Maui, HI (DATE) MXS today announce the immediate availability of Cherry OS software . Cherry OS is a software translator that allows you to install Apple's Operating System on x86 computer architecture. To put it simply you can now run Apple's award winning Panther OS on your PC! This breakthrough in OS development now gives home users, software developers and web designer's ultimate flexibility in both the operating system and hardware platform you use for your personal computer or testing environment.

Cherry OS runs Panther as a virtual machine on your Windows PC. This virtual machine has full network capabilities including the ability to share folders and access the web. The virtual machine also has complete access to the computer's hardware resources including, Hard Drive, CPU, RAM, Firewire, USB, PCI, PCMIA BUS and RJ45/Ethernet and Modem.

Arben Kryeziu, Cherry OS inventor and a software developer, got tired of carrying both a Mac and a PC around with him, so he invented Cherry OS. "Think about it," says Arben. "Now about 600 million PC users can have the MAC advantage. One computer to use all software and if PC users would use MAC software to get email, perhaps they would avoid viruses, Trojans and spy-ware." He went on to say that , "You can build and test applications for a Mac on your development PC, test web site design for Mac web browsers without having to buy the hardware, run OS X, the world's best Operating System, on a less expensive hardware platform and use your favorite Mac apps on a PC."

Pricing and availability
Cherry OS is now available only on line at www.cherryos.com as a download, for $49.95. (Mac software not included)

About MXS
MXS is a software development company specializing in video streaming software. Playerless-streaming.org ranked our vx30 encoder as the best in the world.

The products of Maui X-Stream can be viewed on www.vx30.com

--
And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"

Re:From the CherryOS Site: by Feneric · 2004-10-12 06:14 · Score: 4, Insightful

I personally find it hard to trust a company that's supposedly created a full G4 emulator capable of running Mac OS 10.3 but still hasn't figured out the difference in computer land between Mac and MAC.

from TFSite by justforaday · 2004-10-12 06:03 · Score: 5, Funny

You can install all your favorite mac applications on your PC like iLife, iTunes and Photoshop ... to name just a few.

WoW!!! I can finally run iTunes and Photoshop on my PC!!!

--
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.

Eighty percent is dead accurate! by PCM2 · 2004-10-12 06:04 · Score: 4, Funny

Yes, the process of emulating a PowerPC on an Intel x86 chip takes up 80 percent of your host CPU -- leaving 20 percent for user applications. What's so hard to understand about that?

--
Breakfast served all day!

Try this instead: by temojen · 2004-10-12 06:04 · Score: 3, Informative

PearPC, same thing only open source, free, and runs on Windows and Linux.

Re:Try this instead: by boaworm · 2004-10-12 06:07 · Score: 4, Funny

PearPC, same thing only open source, free, and runs on Windows and Linux.
...but... i have a Mac.. how do I do ? I cant see any Mac/PPC versions out there. Bugger!

--
Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities.
Aristotele
Re:Try this instead: by isecore · 2004-10-12 06:23 · Score: 5, Informative

Yes, but PearPC doesn't come close to CherryOS so far unproven claim of speed.

PearPC does run Mac OS X, but at an absolute snails pace (Yes, I've tried it - Three hours to install, approx 1-2 minutes to open a finder-window).

If CherryOS indeed runs it at a somewhat decent G4-ish speed I'd almost consider 50 bucks to be worth it.

--
I enjoy large posteriors and I cannot prevaricate.

Re:But why? by vhold · 2004-10-12 06:06 · Score: 5, Informative

The best reason I can think of is that all the things I'd want to use a Mac for, are almost totally not CPU bound, whereas all the things I use my PC for are massively GPU/CPU related (games). So basically, I could have most of the best of both worlds in one box. Mac for everything internet/creativity related, and the PC for games/proprietary-work-apps.

There are lots of other reasons you could contrive, what if you had Mac friends that visit a lot but constantly lament being unable to use your PC? It fundamentally boils down to you wanting _both_, but you need more performance on the PC side, which I really think is more common of a case, just on games alone.

In A Related Story by Omega1045 · 2004-10-12 06:10 · Score: 4, Funny

A company has also released a Mac OS X clone for Linux. You can check out their site and download the software for you Linux machine (note: you will need VMWare or similar software to run it.

The URL: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp

--

Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

I call BS by mdarksbane · 2004-10-12 06:12 · Score: 4, Interesting

There's no way you can emulate even a stripped-down PPC instruction set on x86 at 80% speed, let alone Altivec. The best I've seen any commercial editor come close to is a third, or maybe a half.

This'd be running an equivalent 2.7 ghz G4 on your top-of-the-line PentiumIV. They can't come close to that in hardware, there's no way they can touch it in software.

Sounds like a poorly-planned scam to me.

Re:But why? by temojen · 2004-10-12 06:13 · Score: 5, Informative

Is there Mac-only software that people would want to run on their x86 machine?

Absolutely: Safari, Camino, and ie/Mac. Web developers can see what their site will look like and how it will function on a Mac without needing to get more hardware.

I used to run Win2k on VMWare on Linux so I could see how my sites would look on a PC.

Gentlemen, start your binary diff tools.. by SiW · 2004-10-12 06:20 · Score: 5, Insightful

..because 10 bucks says this rips off PearPC wholesale.

Download by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · 2004-10-12 06:20 · Score: 4, Funny

The software is being distributed through electronic download at $49.99 USD...

Oh good. I'm growing really tired of mechanical downloads...

--
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash

Re:Download by HarveyBirdman · 2004-10-12 06:42 · Score: 4, Funny

Oh good. I'm growing really tired of mechanical downloads...
Pfft! Spoiled brats! In my day, we had to download them by hand. Without gloves! In the snow! Uphill!
And there we're bears! Oh, such bears we had!

--
--- Ban humanity.

Finish it by sxltrex · 2004-10-12 06:21 · Score: 5, Funny

Running MacOS using CherryOS on Windows using VMWare on FreeBSD using Linux binary compatibility.

On an X-Box.

Screenshots on [H]ard[F]orum by Corrado · 2004-10-12 06:23 · Score: 4, Informative

Click here for some screenshots and a running commentary.

--
KangarooBox - We make IT simple!

Re:one problem by The+Bungi · 2004-10-12 06:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

Rebooting for a mere driver upgrade is ridiculous

But compiling the driver and then crapping around /etc for thirty minutes isn't.

It's a desktop PC. God will kill no kittens and the world will not come to an end if you reboot once in a while. If you do not want to reboot a desktop PC it's either because you have some psychological issues or you're running some mission-critical application on it, which is dumb to begin with.

Mod parent down! by ggvaidya · 2004-10-12 06:27 · Score: 5, Funny

Yeah, I downloaded that - and it brought me nothing but spyware! DON'T CLICK ON THE LINK!

It's just that simple! by Zildy · 2004-10-12 06:29 · Score: 4, Funny

In other news, geek grows tired of carrying around lotion and a towel, invents woman.

--
Karma: Excer..ex...excellahhh...realll good (mostly affected by drinking not done in moderation)

Re:just buy a mac :-) by Lifewolf · 2004-10-12 06:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

Why not just go with inventor of the GUI and the maker of the first 64 bit PC ???

What do DEC have to do with Mac OS running on Windows?

Step away from the reality distortion field.

--
"Be Happy or Die." -- AoN

Manual avaliable online by DarkBlackFox · 2004-10-12 06:33 · Score: 4, Informative

I managed to get to the documentation page by refreshing rapidly. The manual is avaliable online, and hosted on a differant server. It's a 1.7 mb download, but includes screenshots and information.

Manual avaliable here:

http://www.vx30.com/documents/CherryOS.pdf

or as a .doc

http://www.vx30.com/documents/CherryOS.doc

Thievery by JQuick · 2004-10-12 06:34 · Score: 5, Insightful

Downloading a stolen copy of the OS is just plain wrong.

Apple paid 400 million dollars to buy NeXT. They then spent years of development effort integrating their older MacOS technologies to ensure backward compatibility. They released the resulting core OS for free use (in source code no less). They base a number of their core utility software on OpenSource products, and contribute much source code back to the community.

If you are running a BSD Unix, or running Linix, chances are you are already benefiting from Apple contributions to open source projects on a daily basis.

Ooh, you say, now we can pirate their GUI development utilities and application software! Grow up!

Why would you benefit from doing so? Because the software is worth using, will save you time, and will be enjoyable. If you benefit from a product or service, show some respect for those people responsible for providing it.

If you are not willing to pay anything, then use what is given for free. They respect and contribute to both GNU and BSD based projects.

If you are not willing to buy a new machine, then look on eBay, or online retailers who specialize in repairing and reselling older Mac hardware.

Yes, the software is damn good. No, they currently do not sell it on Intel hardware (either native or emulated).

Whether you or I like that or not, is beside the point. Using tools which improve your productivity or quality of life is worth something to you. If it is worthwhile, put up or shut up. In the open source world, contribute money or time to help improve it. In the commercial world, buy the product, and help fund further improvements.

Re:Thievery by b-baggins · 2004-10-12 07:08 · Score: 5, Insightful

Nice rationalization. However, people who still have their common-sense morality working know that, morally, there's no difference. You are taking something that does not belong to you without paying for it.

--
You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
Re:Thievery by Ford+Prefect · 2004-10-12 07:51 · Score: 4, Insightful

Theft or stealing has the implication of denial of the object from the original owner as a necessary part of it's definition.

Well, you can steal a kiss or steal a glance, neither of which involve the denial of an object from an original owner - and 'he stole my ideas!' is a valid, well-understood statement in English. 'Copyright theft' is also a valid, well-understood statement, much to the chagrin of many Slashdotters it would appear.

Why are people so worked up about this issue? Are they trying to rewrite the English language so they don't feel so guilty about something?

--
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
Re:Thievery by kommakazi · 2004-10-12 07:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

You're denying the owner the monetary compensation they deserve in return for you getting a copy of their software, so yes it is theft. You're not stealing the object, you are stealing the profit.
Re:Thievery by mildness · 2004-10-12 08:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

If ran off without paying for a haircut is that theft? Yes. You robbed him of his product even though there is no physical object for you to see.
It is called "theft of services".
And the fellow who says it's not stealing if he would not pay for it in the first place too high to talk too now. I'll post another note when he's had a chance to come down.
(:-{)}
Cheers
Bill

--
bamph
Re:Thievery by FurryFeet · 2004-10-12 08:11 · Score: 3, Insightful

Yep, nice fallacy. Specifically, you are defining theft to mean what you want it to. Why don't we ask someone who knows what he's saying?

From Websters: "\Theft\, n. [OE. thefte, AS. [thorn]i['e]f[eth]e, [thorn][=y]f[eth]e, [thorn]e['o]f[eth]e. See Thief.] 1. (Law) The act of stealing; specifically, the felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same; larceny."

Mmmmhhh.... let's see... "with an intent to deprive..."... mmmmhhh...
Care to try again?
Re:Thievery by OnanTheBarbarian · 2004-10-12 08:47 · Score: 3, Insightful

Uh, it's hard to imagine what people mean when they say "theft of services", then. If I flee Supercuts after getting my hair cut, I'm not denying anyone a subsequent haircut from the same person, but I am definitely stealing something.

This seems to be a popular semantic game on /. whenever this topic comes up; redefine 'theft' narrowly and then celebrate the fact that software piracy doesn't equal theft.

Next up: someone will no doubt assure us that it's permissible to pirate stuff because it's 'low quality' or because they want to 'try before they buy' or some such. Like all that stolen IP out there is this big protest against capitalist exploitation and mediocrity.
Re:Thievery by JQuick · 2004-10-12 09:00 · Score: 5, Insightful

The court system (both federal, and most states) does not agree with you.

You are correct that until rather recently most statutes concerning theft did correspond to older dictionary definitions requiring that a physical object be missing of that an object be moved from its rightful place.

However in 20th century statutes using the word "theft" began appearing which no longer rely on that old definition.

Statutes for theft of service, involving electrical power define unpaid use of electricity as theft. You have not stolen electrons, merely some of the motive power they convey. Legally however this is a from of theft. Later, theft of service in other forms was legislated. Tapping into a cable TV feed, receiving and decrypting real time stock ticker information broadcast over radio, are all considered theft by both federal and state laws.

In the latter form, you have deprived no-one of use of their property. You have however, attempted to derive personal benefit from something for which you have not paid.

On legal grounds your definition of theft appears unsound.

I see many problems with intellectual property and patent laws which no longer serve the public. Their intent was to provide a short time limited monopoly which was to spur innovation, and then devolve to the public domain and benefit everyone. In my opinion the grant of limited monopoly is no longer limited, and the benefit to the public vastly reduced. However that is a matter of politics, not of pragmatics or ethics.

I agree with your opinion that copying aught to be somehow different. However, ethically and pragmatically it still feels like theft. Legally, it also looks like theft.

Admitting that it is an illegal act, but insisting it is not theft is mere hair splitting.
Re:Thievery by nathanh · 2004-10-12 09:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

Uh, it's hard to imagine what people mean when they say "theft of services", then. If I flee Supercuts after getting my hair cut, I'm not denying anyone a subsequent haircut from the same person, but I am definitely stealing something.

It's not a sufficiently accurate analogy to copyright infringement. When you sat down for your haircut there was an implicit contract. You would get your haircut and the barber would get your money. When you ran away after getting your haircut it wasn't the haircut you were "stealing", it was the money you owed the barber.
With copyright infringement you never even meet the owner of the copyright work. You put all the effort into making the copy. Although the owner has been "ripped off" it's not money you've "stolen"; what you've done is violated their exclusive right to copy or to permit copying. The lost opportunity cost - what you would have paid for the copyrighted work if you'd bought one of the owner's sanctioned copies - is not the same thing as theft. Look up "opportunity cost". It's a standard economic term. It's not theft.
While I agree copyright infringement is illegal I don't think your "haircut analogy" cuts it (pun!).
Re:Thievery by Geoffreyerffoeg · 2004-10-12 13:43 · Score: 4, Insightful

Not quite. You really don't have to deprive them of anything.

My local Sam's Club has to discard unpurchased rotisserie ribs every evening lest they go bad. Is it theft if I take one about 10 minutes before closing (before they've discarded it) without paying for it?

Yes. There's nothing you're depriving them of, there's nothing they'd lose, but it's still theft, because you've taken something from them without permission.

What are you talking about? by pjt33 · 2004-10-12 06:37 · Score: 5, Funny

What's a right mouse button?

Re:Good news.. by phillymjs · 2004-10-12 06:42 · Score: 3, Interesting

it's a shame that Apple doesn't release OS-X for x86 hardware..

Look, you guys just can't get it through your heads that the reason why OS X works so well is because it runs on such a limited pool of hardware-- this allows the engineers coding OS X to make assumptions THAT CANNOT BE MADE in the x86 world, where a machine could be using one of thousands of motherboards, network cards, graphics cards, sound cards, etc. Windows developers have to code for the lowest common denominator. OS X developers code for specific hardware. Even the version of NeXTStep that ran on Intel hardware ran on a tiny subset of the available PC hardware. If your CD-ROM drive and motherboard weren't on the "supported hardware" list that came with NeXTStep, you were SOL.

That little fantasy you all have of buying "Mac OS X for x86", running it on some homebuilt shitbox you cobbled together from spare parts, and having it work as well as a G5 runs Panther today will NEVER come to pass. Microsoft has spent twenty years and untold millions trying to achieve that goal, and they still have quite a way to go.

Do you think Jobs could just snap his fingers one day and a few months later have a product on the shelves that would run perfectly on every PC capable of running XP today? It's impossible. And even if it were possible, you wouldn't buy it. Why? Because Apple uses their software to sell their hardware, so a copy of OS X for x86 would have to be priced to ease the pain of a lost hardware sale-- you'd either do without it and bitterly bitch about the price here on /., or you'd pirate it-- either way, Apple would lose money on it.

~Philly

Moderators, lay off the crack! by John+Harrison · 2004-10-12 06:45 · Score: 5, Insightful

How is this insightful? Of course the software cost more than $50 to develop. They probably plan on selling more than one copy before getting sued into oblivion by Apple. For all you know Cherry OS hired a bunch of guys in India to write the thing and it did cost $50. In any case prices are governed by the law of supply and demand and not by you.

--
Lasers Controlled Games!

Re:Moderators, lay off the crack! by ThousandStars · 2004-10-12 08:51 · Score: 3, Insightful

I don't think the moderators are on crack: it takes a tremendous amount of time, effort and expertise to write an emulator, especially with the kind of features CherryOS claims to have. VPC has been around for a decade, and has had man-hours unnumbered put into making it usable.
The real kicker is the claim that the company emulates a G4, which seems highly unlikely for reasons too long to go into here -- read the rest of the thread for other posters' interpretations.
I'm skeptical, and so is the grandparent, and so should other readers. Extraordinary claims like the ones being made by an unknown company with no history demand extraordinary proof before they're accepted.
Given this context, I think the moderators are doing an acceptable job.

Scam alert by saddino · 2004-10-12 06:48 · Score: 4, Informative

Hmm, their main page states, under "Screenshots":

Desctop & Task Manager

and under "What can CherryOS do?":

Skin enadled GUI

But beyond the typos, their "Client Showcase" features a testimonial from "Secnet Q&A Services" which Google doesn't have any information on (hmm, a Q&A company without a web presence?).

My guess either an out-and-out scam, or a an attempt to pawn off a modified copy of PearPC in an attempt to generate some $ and scram. Ballsy.

Re:Scam alert by Armchair+Dissident · 2004-10-12 09:00 · Score: 4, Interesting

Another posting pointed to this discussion where "dag33k" is practically wetting himself over three screenshots.

A quick nose at the screenshots reveals that the (now dead) screenshots are hosted at: http://www.cotse.net/users/secnet/.

So that's secnet. Not that you can see too much: "their" bandwidth's been exceeded. Doesn't sound like a particularly particularly good choice for a testimonial.

I agree with you. I smell a rat.

--

The ways of gods are mysteriously indistinguishable from chance.

20% speed? by mukund · 2004-10-12 06:53 · Score: 4, Funny

Company claims 80% of the speed of your PC

--
Banu

Re:CherryOS's speed claims, at least, are fraudule by wulfhound · 2004-10-12 06:54 · Score: 4, Informative

... except that modern superscalar CPUs (certainly x86, and possibly newer PPCs also) don't work like that - the registers you write to in machine code are virtual, and are mapped on to a larger hidden register file in realtime by the CPU. In any case a sure-fire L1 cache hit has negligible latency compared to, well, pretty much anything else on an Intel cpu.

Re:CherryOS's speed claims, at least, are fraudule by Pius+II. · 2004-10-12 06:55 · Score: 4, Informative

There are no Mac ROMs, and there haven't been any since at least 1998.
Even the classic Mac OS didn't need the ROMs anymore in its last incarnation.
The less-than-modern Macs had driver support for booting in its ROM, and loaded the Toolbox from a file in the system folder (it's named "Mac OS ROM", though). Modern Macs use OpenFirmware, which is, as the name says, open. Moreover, it's easily emulated, allowing for running OS X on arbitrary PPC machines (with MOL). Yes, that means e.g. Genesis or AmigaOne boards. Or anything with a PPC, really.

PearPC is not that slow by KH · 2004-10-12 07:01 · Score: 3, Informative

I just Xbenched my installation of Mac OS X on PearPC over WinXP.

It's an AthlonXP 3000 (oced to 2400MHz or thereabout) box with 1GB RAM. I've assigned 512MB for PearPC.

The overall score is indeed abysmal 2.89. For comparison, my PB 12" (867MHz) gets something in the range of 80, I think.

But if I look at the score more closely, I notice that major drag comes from vecLib FFT test (scored 0.15!) and all kinds of graphics test (OpenGL test being the worst).

For other things, it scores about 30 to 60 scores range. Disk test is pretty impressive. I only have a regular ATA drive on my PC. Got the score better than my PB disk.

These results are quite understandable considering what PearPC is doing. I would say for some tasks, this might even be usable.

Very impressive, I must say.

Re:CherryOS's speed claims, at least, are fraudule by arminw · 2004-10-12 07:11 · Score: 3, Insightful

There is no reason why Cherry would have to get Apple's blessing for this if the emulator/translator emulates the PPC on an x86 box. Apple does not make the PPC chip and if none of Apple's code is used, they will not be able to sic their lawyers on Cherry.

Using the word "impossible" is dangerous. There have been too many times in history where such sentiments were expressed by skeptics, but what "could not be doen" was done, often to the chagrin of such skeptics. The proof of the pudding is of course easily checked out. Risk $50 +$130 for the Mac OS and try it.

--
All theory is gray

I think it's a scam, i.e Fraud by theolein · 2004-10-12 07:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

For one thing, I just did a couple of whois on cherryos.com, all of whose contacts are listed as arben kryeziu, whose email is given as arben@bumpnetworks.com. Do a whois on bumpnetworks.com (which is a run of the mill web development company according to its website) and you get all the tech contacts as arben@kryeziu.com, which is a simple holding site, obviously the guy's own.

Now, this Arben Kryeziu guy is the one in the, of all things, java video player on the video link site.

So this guy has time to run a web development company, be the tech and admin contacts for all the sites, and run a PPC emulation development outfit on the side? I seriously doubt it.

Not that it might be possible, who knows, but companies such as Connectix (now owned by Microsoft) spent literally years, getting their x86 emulators up to about 1/4 of the speed of the host PPC CPU. And this guy has done it on his own, with a tiny outfit in no time and with no news announcements, and got it to run at 3/4 the host x86 system? I doubt it again.

And then, he sells the whole thing for $50????? And only by electronic download???? With a PDF manual that closely resembles the PearPC effort???? Has anyone actually downloaded this and paid the guy his $50???? Has anyone seen it run???

Even in that weird video (why no wmv, why no real, why no quicktime?) where he supposedly "demonstrates" the application, you don't actually see it running.

My guess is that, if the application really does run, it is simply a PearPC wrapper and runs at around 1/10th or less of the host speed. (Notice the typical marketing "up to 80% of the host" x86 system?)

I have nothing against Albanians (Kryeziu is an albanian name, listen to the guy's accent), but I think the guy is trying to make a quick buck off the hopefuls who want Mac OSX but won't or can't buy a Mac.

We'll see when the first real reports come in of how and if this thing performs, but if it truly is what he claims it to be, which I seriously doubt, then he has one big hurdle and that is Apple's EULA, which states that Mac OSX is only allowed to be run on Apple branded hardware.

Fraudulent postings by theolein · 2004-10-12 07:45 · Score: 4, Interesting

take a look at the poser in that forum making a big noise about this "wonderful emulator", the guy called DAG33K. Notice his English mistakes. Notice his location, "In da middle of da pacific". The do a whois on cherryos.com, and you get an address in Hawai. The tech contact, who is also the admin contact etc etc, is a guy called Arben Kryeziu, the same guy doing the video "demonstration", which you never get to actually see apart from an installation screen and some supposed OSX desktop, which looks very similar to PearPC. The guy's name is Albanian, and if you listen in that demonstration, he speaks with a thick accent, so my gues is that the poster on hardforum is the very same guy trying to pimp his warez.

I still think the guy is trying to fuck everyone for their money.

Re:CherryOS's speed claims, at least, are fraudule by kommakazi · 2004-10-12 07:46 · Score: 3, Informative

No the genesis had a 68000 series processor, not a PPC. Old macs weren't powermacs either, they were also 68000 series processors.

Emulators aren't all they're cracked up to be... by darkstream · 2004-10-12 07:48 · Score: 4, Informative

I produce fractal art and need to use a PC to do it (existing fractal apps on the Mac don't compare with Fractal eXtreme or UltraFractal - and yes, I've tried several dozen), so using VirtualPC seemed the best choice when I switched over in 2000. But the best configuration for this process was VirtualPC4 under OS9. VirtualPC just didn't make the transition from OS9 to OSX very well. That meant I had to reboot into OS9 just for fractal exploration. Having migrated entirely to OSX over the years, working in OS9 was difficult. All the apps I used were in OSX! I soon was forced to get a PC just for fractal exploration. The GUI was sluggish in VirtualPC6 under OSX and the rendering times were abominable.

Honestly, anything that requires heavy calculations is either going to break the emulator or run abysmally slow. Although email and web browsing can be tollerable (I often proof webpages using VirtualPC to get a view from the other side of the pond), I can't see any of the iLife apps being usable under CherryOS. They typically tax my 800MHz iMac. I can't imagine how slowly they would run under emulation...

--
Fun with Inkwell | www.coo

Let me educate you... by kuwan · 2004-10-12 07:54 · Score: 4, Informative

I have not worked with or even looked at either instruction set. Nonetheless your average application will spend only a small percentage of its time using Altivec...

Maybe you should go and get some experience or at least some knowledge before you start talking about something you know nothing about.

Altivec from its beginning introduced 162 vector instructions that have not changed from the initial G4 to the current G5. On the other hand, Intel's MMX/SSE/SSE2 instructions have evolved over time - roughly 57 in MMX, 78? in SSE and 144 in SSE2. Altivec has been a well-designed and versatile SIMD engine from its beginning while Intel has sort of hacked together their SIMD engine as they've evolved their processors. Intel's implementation is very troublesome for a programmer because he has to do many different things depending on what is available (MMX/SSE/SSE2). These instructions don't map 1:1 for the most part with Altivec. And while SSE2 is much better than SSE, it was only introduced with the Pentium 4.

Also, Altivec has 32 128-bit registers to only 8 128-bit registers for SSE/SSE2. I don't care what anyone says, trying to emulate 32 registers (when all you have is 8) in an SIMD engine is going to be a lot slower.

You say that only a small percentage of time will be spent using Altivec, but that's just not true. Apple has optimized a large part of Mac OS X to use Altivec, especially in Quartz (the windowing and compositing engine). This would result in a major slowdown for any emulator in pretty much every application (except for stuff like background daemons). You'd probably do better just to emulate a G3 so as to not run any Altivec code.

--
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes

Re:Could this actually help apple? by forkazoo · 2004-10-12 08:07 · Score: 4, Insightful

So, you really think that people are going to spend $50 for an emulator, and over $100 for the OS, so that they can emulate a platform they barely know exists? And then, the slow performance of non-native operation, the lack of the slick full user experience, and the quirks that are in every real-world emulator... All this will inspire them to buy a Mac?

IMHO, this is a system targetted for people who already have a base of Mac OS apps that they want or need to use, and have an existing investment in PC hardware. For example, somebody who needs a laptop, and wants to use it for games, so they have to get a PC, but also occasionally needs Safari for testing web pages, or X Code to do cross platform builds on the road.

I love my iBook, and I love OS-X, but there are relatively few reasons I'd feel a need to run it on my Dell.

You would have to... by BongosNaked · 2004-10-12 08:16 · Score: 3, Interesting

... try at least once to run virtual pc from your... pc running CherryOS which, of course is... running panther osx... which is running...

--
Do you bongo?

Re:I think it's a scam ... agreed by adzoox · 2004-10-12 08:35 · Score: 4, Informative

I'm actually going to reveal something you may not know...

Both Connectix and Insignia (the two main companies that produced Windows emulation for the Mac) were actually just venture capital firms. This is why Connectix, at the height of every product launched, would just sell it off as an asset.

Connectix Quickcam = Logitech Quickcam
Connectix Virtual Game Station = Sony Buyout
Connectix Virtual PC ( at an undeniable breakthrough point) = Microsodt VPC

Insignia was the same:

Softwindows ... I did an unupublished interview with the head of FWB ... he stated that they simply licensed the code rather than bought it from Insignia. The reason they never released an update after leasing the code was because they didn't see any merit at the time in releasing a new OS X version.

Insignia is supposedly shopping this around.

I have found that these two companies were essentially started up by venture capital and paid off their investors, dumped their employees, and the owners got filthy rich.

Now, as for this software. I find it NEXT to impossible that the software is running a G4 at 80% speed of the CPU. If you were to translate this properly - Apple's CPUs are about 1.2X as fast as the equivalent P4 and P3 (G3 & G4 respectively) - so essentially the claim is saying it will run a 100% equivalent Mhz / speed ratio.

This means if I had a 3Ghz Pentium 4 with 1 Gig RAM - I would have the equivalent of a 2.4Ghz G4!! There's just NO way!

--
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny

Why Apple won't do that? by Eminence · 2004-10-12 09:08 · Score: 4, Interesting

The amount of interest this story generated (CheryOS' site is already slashdoted) shows clearly how many people would love to run OS X, but can't afford the hardware. In fact I'm one of those people - I hate Windows, but I'm too old to tweak with Linux. Apple's OS X is the best choice for the likes of me - easy to use, tons of good commercial software for the desktop user, no frustrating tweaking and adjusting to get it working and no Microsoft. However, prices of their hardware are murder when compared to the PC world. I know there are many good reasons for that, but what has bothered me for some time now is why Apple won't release OS X for Intel platform.

In fact OS X is a really great, consequently designed GUI on top of a robust BSD Unix. It should be rather portable by nature, even if it would have high hardware requirements (like lots of memory and fast graphic boards with again lots of memory). Possibly achieving binary compatibility for software would be a problem, but I don't think it would be necessary. After all on a Unix system porting software between hardware platforms is just a question of recompiling it. Now, why don't they try to do it?

As much as I hate paying Microsoft for XP I would gladly pay twice the price of OS X for Mac to be able to run it on PC. Why Apple won't do it? Maybe because they don't want to get into Microsoft's gun sight?

Re:Why Apple won't do that? by adzoox · 2004-10-12 09:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

Why is $529 for a 17" Monitor, CPU ,and keyboard/mouse + TONS of awesome software - with a one year Apple Warranty too much for you?

See the Apple Store special deals section.

--
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Re:Why Apple won't do that? by mikrorechner · 2004-10-12 09:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

One word:

Support.

If Apple sold OS X for x86, they would step from a small variety of hardware to the literaly unlimited number of CPU/chipset/GPU/etc. combinations in Intel/AMD-land.

Microsoft has avoided this by practically denying the users of their OS any support and "outsourcing" it to their OEM partners (which will deny any support if you changed a single component in the system they sold you).

What would Apple gain by porting OS X? A few users that treat it as another Unix variant with a nice GUI, and most probably bad hardware drivers, like Windows had (and still has), responsible for most crashes of the OS.

But they could lose their reputation as a first class hardware and software vendor, and end up like other companies that tried to sell a alternative commercial OS on x86 (think BeOS).

--
"Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-my-own-Grandpa." - Dr Hubert Farnsworth
Re:Why Apple won't do that? by TheInternet · 2004-10-12 10:28 · Score: 5, Insightful
bothered me for some time now is why Apple won't release OS X for Intel platform

There was a whole thread about this just a few days ago.

In fact OS X is a really great, consequently designed GUI on top of a robust BSD Unix. It should be rather portable by nature

It is. The challenges aren't purely technical.

Possibly achieving binary compatibility for software would be a problem

Next solved these problems a while ago.

Why Apple won't do it? Maybe because they don't want to get into Microsoft's gun sight?

There are a lot of reasons. Keep a few things in mind:
1. Next already pursued a strategy like this. If Steve Jobs decided to not do it again, there *might* be a good reason
2. How many copies would actually be purchased vs pirated?
3. Some of the desireable features of Mac OS X rely on intergration with underlying hardware
4. Do you really think you'd ever see an Office for Mac OS X x86?
There's no question people want everything everything Apple has to offer without actually buying any hardware, but it doesn't make any sense to do if such an action destroys Apple and Mac OS X development in the process.

- Scott
--
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas

Re:CherryOS's speed claims, at least, are fraudule by meme_police · 2004-10-12 09:15 · Score: 4, Informative

Like the parent says, they use OpenFirmware (which is a fully programmable Forth environment) now instead of a closed ROM. Nobody is arguing that Apple is no longer using ROM, they're just saying that they're no longer using the closed Mac ROM.

--

The meme police, They live inside of my head

Hic Non Sequitur by abb3w · 2004-10-12 09:23 · Score: 3, Funny

According to the license you cant run the OS on an emulator because its not "Apple hardware".

You presume that the emulator is running on a real PC, rather than one itself emulated on, say, Virtual PC for Mac.

--
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.

Re:Ummmm... darwin... by Graymalkin · 2004-10-12 10:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

The underlying OS is open source and there's yet to be a massive influx of ported *BSD and Linux drivers. There's been a handful of projects porting specific classes of drivers but no large scale efforts. Apple is not structured to be Red Hat and it isn't likely they would ever want to be. Red Hat survives by the skin of its teeth most of the time.

Quicktime is an extremely powerful media framework that pervades the entirety of MacOS. There's no open source equivalent to Quicktime. There's lots of open source media libraries but nothing quite like Quicktime. Open source projects attract some of the most talented software developers in the world. It isn't like Apple's software people are better than anyone else necessarily. They are however being paid to do something (such as make a pervasive media framework in the OS) fulltime. They aren't trying to write such a system in their spare time between going to school and working part time. It is entirely unlikely that a bazaar model of development would have ever conceived of something like Quicktime let alone actually built it. The fact that there's no pervasive media framework in Linux right now is good evidense of that claim I think .There's people that could design and build it but they don't necessarily have the resources or interest to. The Quicktime developers at Apple are being paid to develop Quicktime.

As such relying on people writing software in their spare time is not condusive to being an industry innovator. Many open source projects exist to build FOS versions of closed source commercial products. There's very few open source projects in existance with the goal of "make a computer easier for everyone to use".

--
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.

PearPC HD files by TravisWatkins · 2004-10-12 10:21 · Score: 3, Informative

Either this is PearPC with a fancy GUI or they 'borrowed' some code from PearPC. On the video of their installer you can see macosx_3gb.rar being copied. The HD files for PearPC have to be a specific size so only a select few work.

Also, no one has made a foolproof HD creator that works 100% so obviously CherryOS couldn't steal that. That's why their profile setup only allows 3GB or 6GB HDs. That's what is available for PearPC.

--

"But I'm still right here, giving blood and keeping faith. And I'm still right here."

EULAs by Garabito · 2004-10-12 10:38 · Score: 4, Informative

The real legality of such statements is only known after it has been tried in a court of law, which AFAIK it has not.

Maybe it hasn't been tried for Apple software, but at least one EULA was declared enforceable in an U.S. court. Sad, isn't it?

Top 3 Signs You're Running OS X on a PC by Zhe+Mappel · 2004-10-12 10:42 · Score: 4, Funny

1. Inexplicable urge to download Dance_Monkey_Boy_Dance.avi

2. Inordinate amount of time spent visiting rumor sites to find out when emulation will be sped up.

3. Funny, this beige computer case clashes with the drapes; I never noticed that before...

FULL hardware support? I think not... by GFLPraxis · 2004-10-12 10:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

Reading the article, it says that it claims full hardware support, and lists:
" It also includes full hardware support: hard drive, CPU, RAM, FireWire, USB, PCI, PCMCIA bus, Ethernet networking and modem."

No graphics card listed. Usually, that's not a big problem, BUT, Mac OS X uses Quartz Extreme to render all the windows in 3d with shadows and fancy coloring. No graphics card = horrid windowing performance.

So does this use graphics card? Because if it doesn't, we're going to have choppy windows jumping around, performance loss when you move the mouse over the dock, choppy Expose, etc. And graphics card isn't listed.

You people scare me by FredFnord · 2004-10-12 10:52 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's really nice that you're so plugged into the open source community that you missed, for example:

- All the optimization stuff they've folded into gcc

- All the fixes they've folded back into the BSD code tree

I'm sure there's more, those are just the two categories that I've actually used and found helpful.

And, of course, the 'overly restrictive license' is considered to be a 'Free Software' license by the FSF. It's not gnu-compatible (for which I am awfully glad) and it (oh horrors!) allows linking to proprietary non-free software. Since I am not a gnu zealot, I find those things to be positive benefits, not drawbacks.

But, of course, the facts never stopped an Anonymous Coward before, so why should they now, eh?

-fred

--
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.

Re:A Report From Maui by cmholm · 2004-10-12 12:23 · Score: 5, Informative

MXS, the company behind CherryOS, Maui X-Stream, and the vx30.com web hosting service, isn't showing me a brick-and-mortar so far. Hitting the Google caches, I find 'contact' pages that alternately list a Wailuku and a Lahaina office, both of which were copyright 2003. I tried the Wailuku address during lunch. The office was empty, sign removed from door, and no listing on the building directory. I may try the Lahaina address for fun over the weekend.

--
Luke, help me take this mask off ... Just for once, let me butterfly kiss you with my own eyes.

Interview with CherryOS creator by applextrent · 2004-10-12 13:11 · Score: 3, Informative

For more on this software, and issue, you can visit my site Apple-X.net: CherryOS: Interview With Creator, Plus Screenshots

RE: PearPC, repackaged? by King_TJ · 2004-10-12 16:29 · Score: 3, Informative

Yeah.... I was suspicious of the same thing. At best, I figured this was sort of a "fork" of the PearPC project. Maybe they added some of their own code to handle some G4 specific functions and bundled it up with a cleaner installer/setup program. But I bet it's still just PearPC at the core.

Their screenshots I saw this morning on their web site were only depicting OS X's main desktop and finder screens. Never once did they show it running a single app! (That was the deal with PearPC too, wasn't it? At first, people could run OS X itself, view the finder, and the prefs panes - but that was about all it could do without crashing.)

Now, it looks like they're claiming people are "trying to hack the site" and so on, and they only have some video movie available to download/watch. I was getting horribly slow connections to them, but the first 50% or so of the video I watched only showed the program being installed on an XP box. (Big whoop! It has an installer program that can actually copy files over to the PC.)

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2004-10-18 12:31 · Score: 5, Funny

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Slashdot Mirror

Cherry OS Claims Mac OS X Capability For x86

124 of 1,090 comments (clear)