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Sony Launches DVD-Burning Appliance
what_the_frell writes "News.com.com has a story about Sony's latest DVD Burner that can be connected directly to your VCR or Camcorder to directly record or back up your recoded home movies, TV shows, etc. It can also be hooked up to a PC via a USB 2.0 connection as well. The article reports that the device effectively removes the PC from the equation, giving users an easier way to make their own DVDs. No word yet if it will record straight from your television, or from your DVD Player to circumvent copy-protection. *wink*" Sony also has its own press release on the gadget.
At first I thought this was something I'd have in the kitchen or laundry... still, sounds like a capital idea.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Is Sony being run by someone new? This from the same folks that brought us the MiniDisk? I don't believe it.
I hit read more and /. told me "nothing to see here, please move along." which by coincidence was exactly what I was about to say. I've had a pvr / dvd burner for at least half a year now. This isn't new stuff, except that it can be hooked up to your computer. And then the article goes on to say that they are eliminating the computer from the personal media loop? Then why do they have connections for it? Is it too much to expect rational reporting, at least?
I submitted this story last night, and it didn't get posted.
There's no way that Sony of all people would release a device that ignores macro vision, or even the broadcast flag.
That said, If it connects to a VCR, then it probably uses RCA/RF/SVIDEO inputs, which you could clearly use to record from any source .
sinfulshirts. tshirts that make baby jesus cry.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Not Sony. The last thing they'd ever do is release a DVD burner that can burn copyrighted stuff. Even their computer ones have the super-compatible options turned off, so that you can't whip out a copy of the latest/greatest game.
This just seems like a natural progression for me... Standalone CD burners -> standalone DVD burners.
Sony? DRM? Never!
Why is it that they always use USB, sure its fast at its burstable rate of 480 Mbs, but Firewire sure beats it with a sustainable 400Mbs, that and if your hooking up a digital camcorder to your dvd burner wouldn't you want something that was already in the camera, IIRC most camcorders have 4-pin firewire out ports because they are superior for the data transfer...
No word yet if it will record straight from your television, or from your DVD Player to circumvent copy-protection. *wink*
Software that manages copyright ownership (or any other software for that matter) doesn't require a PC to be ran. I'd guess that Sony, which has large interests in the motion picture and music industries, has some kind of copy protection with this - with or without a PC.
Its been out a while, just plug in and record. nothing new here...
With SOny being one of the largest movie producers in the world and way up there too in the music bizz, I doubt they will bypass ANY copy protection. In fact I would expect it to be built into the device too.
Sony's latest DVD Burner that can be connected directly to your VCR or Camcorder to directly record or back up your recoded home movies, TV shows, etc.
In other news: Sony launched a recordable DVD burner that records movies and live TV, etc... To commemorate the 30th anniversary of the launch of the same Sony's Betamax product in 1975, the MPAA decided to sue Sony. "It's just like the good ole days" declared MPAA's godfather Jack Valenti.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
What's capital? I never know what you're talking about. Loo, shag, brolly, what the hell is all that?
"The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
Happiness. What a fantastic device.
-Randy
Actually, attempting to record a DVD using RCA outputs from a DVD playing device will result in a macrovision message being popped up on the screen! It knows... well unless you have one of the Apex players!
...but is there any reason that someone who already owns a PC-capable burner would want to spend another $300 for this?
In fact, it seems to me that this product is only for people who don't own ANY kind of burner, not even a non-PC set-top DVR:
if you already own a set-top DVR, and you have $300 to burn, wouldn't you rather spend it on a more capable PC-based burner (e.g., faster, multi-format, etc.)?
The main use for this will probably be mastering home tapes and camcorder family stuff onto optic media which is less prone to loss over the years.
OTOH it says it can be hooked up to a PC, I wonder how long before someone zaps the PROM to allow copy of any DVD.
But, still, the price tag makes it an unlikely choice for your occasional piracy trip. This is a family appliance rather than a geek thing, obviously if you wanted to dupe DVD's you'd be buying one of these.
Broken Hearts are for Assholes. - Frank Zappa
burning appliance
or
Appliance that burns DVDs
--
want $10?
It's actually a pretty cool little device. Say I wanted to record something in order to edit it, either from tv, or anything putting out a video signal, like a game console. Instead of having to wire it to a vcr, or complex wiring into the computer, I just hook up the output to this, burn to a dvd, and I've got it to play with anywhere else. Not bad. Obviously, it'll still detect macrovision and not allow regular DVD movies to be copied, but it does seem to eliminate the need all those 'Dazzle' video capture devices that they sell at Best Buy and the like.
The best part is dual layer and PC connections, everything else is already available for $200 at costco and you get TV tuner included. I believe amazon had a DVD recorder with TV tuner for $169 just a few days ago. The costco model (don't remember the brand, its some weird Chinese brand) includes firewire input, so you can plug your DV / Digital 8 cam right into it. Not bad for that kind of money.
What about the IEEE-1394 interface they were so proud of on their cameras? I have one of those i-Link and USB DCR-TRV cameras with a lot of v8/hi8 tapes to burn into some optical media. Why do I have to be forced to use an analog connector between two digital devices? Really expected to see Sony better integrating their products.
I have a DVR-500, and it really, really sucks. It, like all Sony products, stopped working directly after its warranty expired, and now only burns at 1x, sometimes.
It makes loud clicking noises when starting and may or may not work on some media.
The 510 model likewise, sucks. It does the same things, and, as it got older (a friend of mine has one), stopped running at top speed as well.
Do yourself a favor: NEVER BUY SONY. Does it look cool? Yes. Does it work well, at least immediately? Yes. Is it substandard crap? OH Yes. Will it outlive a puppy? Never.
Sending friends and family home movies on a DVD is going to be great for the folks who like that sort of thing. As long as these are ``real DVDs'', not some crippled substitute, they'll be great.
For the slightly longer term ... there are garage bands today, and maybe someday there will be garage movie producers. Another ten years of Moore's law will make something like Toy Story possible on a few desktop PCs. I'm really looking forward to that.
See what I've been reading.
better read this before you start recommending Apex products. A lot of people hate this company.
An alternative solution might be the adapdtec viedeoh hardware mpegII encoder with built in TV tuner. cost about 100 sterling add in the cost of a seperate burner then the price is competetive.
I can't quite see the advantage of this device as a stand alone unit.
Pirating videotapes maybe, simplicity?
I just can't see the point if you can't edit without using a PC why would you want to buy this device?
getting raw camcorder footage direct to dvd without editing is just going to mean ripping it again from the dvd to edit out all the worst shots.
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
Here, in Soviet Russia the burner toasts the DVDs!
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
From what I can tell, it *looks* like this device should be able to record direct-to-DVD without the need for an intervening tape. Anyone have any experience with using a device like this that way? Ideally, we'd like to be able to record direct to DVD, and when done, swap the DVD out to a duplicator and make a few copies of it.
For those interested, this would be an idea setup for a couple of classes I'm taking where we have distance learning students. Being able to send them a DVD with a month's worth of classes on it would be a whole heck of a lot better than what we're managing now, and $300 is probably within the budget for a simple solution like this.
"Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgement." Job 32:9
Normal standalone DVD recorders let you plug in a VCR and a camcorder with firewire (at least mine does and it only cose £180). I don't really see why this is supposed to be different.
Am I missing something?
"No word yet if it will record straight from your television, or from your DVD Player to circumvent copy-protection. *wink*"
And Slashdotters have the audacity to wonder why DRM schemes, RIAA/MPAA legal lobbying and lawsuits are being built and deployed in the home retail markets in various countries. You're fools to yourselves.
This appears to be no different than the Liteon 5005 I purchased several months ago. The only difference is that the Sony appears to use a newer dual layer drive and costs about $100 more.
Don't get me wrong - these are very useful devices. I'm ready to toss my VCR as soon as I dub a few tapes to disc. But it's not groundbreaking new technology.
Just how is this Unlike this HP product? Old news.
Slashdot is an anagram for Has Dolts, and I am Dolt number 468543
And his Windows Media Center bullshit must be a Good Thing.
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
they either sell the movies [they own the rights to LOTS and LOTS of movies, new and old and yet to be made.] or if you to rip the movie while you rent it or have a download in the right format, they will sell you the recorder...they make the bucks at one end or the other...that's the Sony solution to the whole copywrong battle.
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
Sony runs two sets of QA control, one for US, one for Europe and Asia. The low quality stuff gets sold in the US because import taxes are huge for japanese manufacturers. Higher quality stuff is shipped to Europe and near asian countries. That's the price you have to pay for protecting your economy.
Meanwhile we europeans enjoy Sony's high quality gear.
Furlong Smoogroff
I never said I recommended it, but I know people who have some and have had no problems whatsoever. Plus, the players seem to be fully-featured for the low price. As for the people who hate their products, well, you get what you pay for!
Yes, though the press release only mentions MPEG-2 recording (sensibly enough, since it's making DVDs to be played "anywhere"). That's a lossy compression step from the stream that's recorded from your camcorder. For a DV camcorder you'd normally get a lossless transfer (via firewire) to your desktop for editing. You can edit MPEG-2, but it's more of a target format than an intermediate format.
Still, it's a great toy if you don't want to edit, or if you don't mind editing MPEG-2.
I guess I'm missing something, but haven't we had stand-alone DVD recorders for quite a while now? I bought a DVD recorder functioning exactly like a VCR several months ago. - http://www.dvdrecorder.philips.com/
Cheap DVD drives + http://www.dvdshrink.org/ = No copy protection.
I don't respond to AC's.
It does DVD+R and DVD+RW, both single and double layer. It's pretty well known that the + format is less compatible with players than the - format.
So the disks it burns probably have a 50/50 chance of even being playable in my 3rd generation (5 years old) Panasonic DVD Player.
Sure, they'll play on my Mac or PC, but sitting in a computer chair to watch 90-120 minutes of video is far less preferable than kicking it in my easy chair and stuffing a disk into the player in the entertainment center.
If they make a -R version I might consider one.
Most Sony equipment I've ever bought has been top notch. Especially their video gear.
With that said...
My first DVD player for the entertainment center was a Sony. It worked fine, but it was very fussy about what disks it would play. Quite a few disks from Netflix wouldn't play in it and it wasn't because they were scratched. I had problems playing brand new disks.
So I bought a Panasonic unit that was a generation newer. It plays every DVD I've ever tossed at it. It doesn't play VCD or SVCD, which would be really nice, but I don't have problems playing any movies anymore.
Despite that experience, I bought a DRU-530A internal 8x Sony burner about 6 months ago and stuffed it into a FW/USB case. It works great. Firmware updates work fine despite the failed to write buffer error at the very end. Once you reboot it's fine and running the new firmware.
The only problem I've had with the 530 is burning at 8x. My Panasonic player in the living room has a tendency to glitch frequently playing 8x burns. Burn the same media at 4x and it's a happy camper. I'm not too surprised that a player that old has issues with 8x burns. Kinda sucks, though, but I'll probably buy a new player for the rack that supports more formats and, being more modern, shouldn't have problems with 8x burns.
So, despite one bad experience (and it wasn't THAT bad), I'm still a Sony fan. Having done professional video before, there's a reason I've always been a Sony man, their video gear is hard to beat, although Panasonic does really well in that market as well.
"No word yet if it will record straight from your television, or from your DVD Player to circumvent copy-protection. *wink*"
And you folks wonder why the MPAA and RIAA are upset?
Sony... the guys who brought us very expensive DVD players that wouldn't read CD-R/DVD-R media.
Sony, the guys who brought us the Sony Memory Stick and Magic Gate copy protection aka "Slow and Lame."
Sony, the guys who just released the "iPOD Killer" that can't even play MP3's before converting them to Sony's proprietary format.
Sony, the guys who make TV's that enforce macrovision so strictly that they sometimes don't work with DVD players and legal DVDs.
Unless they've turned over a new leaf, this thing will be crippled. I quit buying Sony years ago because of their anti-consumer stance.
No geek should be excited about this. It's inputs are S-video, composite video and analog stereo, along with the USB. If you're copying from your A/V gear or your camcorder, you're restricted to the analog formats. Even if you have a DVD player that defeats macrovision, you're still making a low-quality copy from the analog signal. You can't copy the DD or DTS signals with this either.
This might be a fine device for someone that just wants to eliminate their VCR, but that is all. You can archive your old VHS tapes, your personal videos, or stuff off the Tivo, but that's about it.
There have been many standalone DVD burners on the market now for years. I got one more than a year ago and it even had a harddrive in it as well for recording. Plus my pioneer TiVo has a burner in it as well.
Good to see that slashdot is keeping up with the tech industry.. Only a few years behind now...
No word yet if it will record straight from your television
That's easy.
Since it already has S-Video and Composite Inputs, you just hook it up to your cable box, or through your VCR.
It doesn't need to have a TV Tuner to record TV... it's enough that whatever provides the video/audio signal does.
-- This sig for rent.
I volunteer at a small, privately run museum, which preserves and displays town history. We have quite a few videotapes which we manually rewind. It would be much better if we could let various dvds continually play during the day. On the other hand, bringing tapes in to be professionally converted would not be cost-effective, especially in cases when money and effort has already been spent converting the tapes from other formats
How is this different then all the other DVD recorders on the market? Someone please explain.
HMMM....well I thought this SH*T was illegal? well ive already done it and its not the 1st dvd burner..(cough--burns ps2 and xbox games--cough)
[IMG]http://img37.exs.cx/img37/4237/spidey-sig.jp
Ouch.. Someone at Micro$oft has moderator status.
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
The quality won't be the same as a drue DVD copy as you have to deal with extra D/A A/D conversions but it should be more than adequate for making backup copies for your kids to watch Disney videos 10k times on so they don't scratch up your $18 original.
Perhaps when they scratch up Pinocchio you could get them this or this or this or this (but definitely not this or hell no). That's the nice thing about Disney animated movies: as half of them are based on public domain stories, there are a lot of independently produced copycat versions you can buy. Heck, you can skip funding the lobbying effort for the future Chastity Bono Act and just buy the copycat titles in the first place; kids who are young enough won't be able to tell the difference.
And when they scratch up that fish movie you could get a completely different Nemo movie to help them kick the Disney addiction. Just don't confuse it with this or this.
Firewire can be usefully faster, for example with an external hard disk; all the benchmarks I've seen show Firewire performance to be superior to USB2 while using less CPU resources (and certainly this is the case with my own external Maxtor, connected to my desktop). The point is, USB 2 *doesn't* do 480Mbs for any sustained period, it is in fact well below 400Mbs and you can see a difference with 'normal' devices. (A 16x DVD is over 22MB/s, e.g. over 175Mb/s.)
:-(
It would be particularly peculiar, however, for Sony to launch something that did USB2 and *not* Firewire, as Sony are a major Firewire supporter - it has been impossible to buy a Sony Vaio without it for the last five years at least, while they have only added USB2 to their laptops relatively recently (typing this now on a Vaio with firewire but no USB2
Annoyingly Sony use the 4-pin no power connector, and have the gall in their more recent laptops to situate a proprietary Sony DC output right beside the 4-pin firewire when they could just go with the standard 6-pin...
1394 on TV devices is protected by 5C encryption. I.e. it's dead before it even makes it to the masses.
If this discourages people from buying those silly comcorders that burn directly to mini DVD+RW, I think it's a good thing. Why do I dislike those? Because you lose a great deal of quality in order to fit it on the mini DVD+RW, whereas mini DV tapes are much better. Sure I guess you could say it is more convienient to record directly to DVDRW, but then how are you going to make copies for your friends without a computer? You would have been better off with mini DV.
The only thing new about the Sony box is handling two layer disks.
and it will still suck in compatability.
sony DVD witer devices are horribly incompatable same as panasonic, JVC, etc...
they will not make a DVD that will play in anything. the only decent compatability is a PC mastered DVD and then you are stuck at 90% and the more expensive the DVD player the less chance it has of working. ($27.00 hookifugama play's anything, $5700.00 denon will play almost nothing.)
until they advertise 90%+ compatability and these "appliances" actually master the DVD right it is nothing but junk.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Now that people can easily burn data to a whole DVD, there's really no limit to the digital thievery they can commit with their friends. It was bad with CD's, but think about what you can put on a DVD! Goodbye IP rights, hello massive digital piracy!
Do yourself a favor: NEVER BUY SONY. Does it look cool? Yes. Does it work well, at least immediately? Yes. Is it substandard crap? OH Yes. Will it outlive a puppy? Never.
You underestimate my passion for killing puppies.
or perhaps nobody has been by the big-box store lately and seen the several dozen DVD recorder models on the shelf to look at, or the dual-deck units that record as well as play both DVDs and VCR tapes, and that are almost one-button copy between the two formats.
sony's new toy has a different interface on the display panel. and it sits on edge. those are their breakthroughs.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
They seem to have this belief that as long as things works with the other stuff the same company makes (or maybe a few selected partners) it is AOK and if it doesn't work in brand X then that is stiff cheese, you should have bought our version instead of product X. From their perspective it seems like a rather good way to ensure you remain loyal to their brand.
In reality of course, all they are doing is causing people to ditch their brand in favour of someone elses. What the execs in these companies fail to understand is that it is no longer the 1970's, and people are no longer willing to devote their spending dollars to just the one brand. Intercompatibility is what people want, and ultimately it will be the companies that provide what people want who will survive into the future. Funny that.
Sony in particular have fallen into that trap. For years they have been selling goods under the Sony name at 10% higher levels than everyone else. This 10% surcharge has often been dubbed "The Sony Tax", but quality problems and draconian attempts to burden their customers with proprietary technology and DRM has affected their ability to continue charging like they used to. Nowadays, the Sony logo is no longer perceived as a sure sign of a quality product, and is just as often seen as an indicator that a product is likely to have been cheaply made in a Malaysian sweatshop, and is unecessarily restrictive in what it allows its user to do with it to boot.
Hardly a good image for a high tech consumer goods company, but then I'm sure all those Sony execs know what they are doing. Just look at their market share for MP3 players!
"You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
>>>Sorry.
;D). While still infringing on my personal right to run my company as I see fit, it has a good outcome for the great majority of people.
It doesn't because lawyers are crafty and the general public (like you sir) are fucking dumb. COMMERCIAL ENTITIES SHOULD NOT HAVE THE SAME PROTECTIONS AS INDIVIDUALS. When individuals have the same sort of monetary control over government officials that the corporations do then we'll talk.
There is no such thing a a commercial entity as they cannot be physically defined. This is why the protection vs. protection discussion is baseless. It is really differing forms of personal freedom under attack from government.
For example, if I were to found a company that wanted to hire 25 employees, but the government stepped in to enforce affirmative action, that infringes on my personal right to run my company how I see fit. But it goes both ways. If my same company produced a by-product of massive amounts of toxic waste that I decided to have dumped behind some houses on land I ownm the government would step in again (along with numerous citizens' groups
Now, I'm not opening up a can of Libertarianism. I'm just showing that some regulation is good and some is bad. More regulation is generally bad for the economy (look at Europe vs. United States, or China before and after opening up to the United States).
If its from Sony, then it will require special Sony connectors, will only burn to special Sony discs, will recognise the broadcast flag, will be so DRM poisoned that a disc won't play on anything but the exact machine that recorded it - and said machine will mysteriously fail a day after its warranty period ends.
The tricky bit is that quite a few of those several hundred VHS tapes are commercial movies, thus, with Macrovision. So, I'll probably need a Macrovision killer.
I have no desire to make a copy and redistribute it. I DO want to exercise my fair use and transfer the content to a more convenient format, and put the original VHS tapes in archival storage. I suppose I could eventially code them as DivX and save them on a home server, but I'd still like a backup format other than tape.
You could've hired me.
I have had, over the years various Sony devices. CD players for home and car, along with DVD players. Many were released before the burned media was available or prevailent. Consistantly the devices would not play burned (in a legitimate copy context) media. Though its pure speculation I would think that there might be a conflict of interest when a large electronics manufacturer also has one heck of a foot in music and movie media.
By contrast an my Apex AD-660 Dvd Player (Circuit City Special ~4yrs back at $99, specifically note this is not device linked in the parent, nor is it a dvd burner at all) has worked well, some years with all media, including burned types. Its not the prettyest thing to look at, some of the BIOS stuff downright sucks, but it gets the job done which was more then sony could provide.
The last thing on Sony's agenda is providing a device that enables copyright infringments (or rather what can be legally labeled as such), whereas Apex (withstanding any issues with the metioned product) and many other off brand manufacturers would be more then happy to do so as long as there liability is limited.
How do I keep track of people who are fingering
I'm not entirely sure what your point is. A lot of those postings in the forum thing u posted say that Apex products are great. Also some of them say Apex products suck. Wow, opinions. Like anybody should base their purchasing on those.
My Sony DRU-500A is still going strong and I've owned it for around 18-20 months now... probably burned close to 400 or 600 DVDs by now with it.
Had a lot of problems with it early on until they patched up the firmware and Roxio got their act together (combined with better media).
Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?