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HP, Dell, and IBM Agree to Manufacturing Code of Conduct
JustOK writes "Yahoo! reports that IBM, Dell and HP have agreed to a code of conduct for not only workers, but the environment as well. An HP exec's statement is that the company is only responding to the company's 'globalizing in many parts of the world'." The joint press release is available, as is the code of conduct (pdf).
The clothing industry actually established something like this in the 1930's. My father worked in the garment district in Manhattan and he said it made a big difference.
Can't we all just get along...? Erm... wait. Wow. I'm shocked! They are getting along!
What will they think of next? I guess that the dollar isn't worth as much as it once was, as it seems to take more of 'em to buy out these corp's ethics.
Smoke that Enron!
Man, shipping jobs overseas is old hat and the same old model applies. The low wages = low standards of living. Keep them pinned down, keep wages low. But yes, we're making profits and selling our stuff cheap. This is a rehash, anybody ever remember Phil Knight and Nike's fiasco on this? So, now it's the manufacturers turn.
I watched the Discovery program on the IT boom in Bangalore, a few yards away, kids being left unattended while their parents work in a glass sweat shop.
Anybody out there have some Wipro TP?
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
No more dire working conditions at least for some workers. It is a good start. A very good start. I wonder what companies would follow this trend. Judging from which one of them I would trust to do no evil, it would be Google. From the rumors I've heard, it would be Sun. Only time will tell.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
And they'll be clobbered by the scumbags who undercut them on price by sh!tting on the rest of the world for a buck.
(Ok, I'm a bit down right now, because I was just looking for a jersey on eBay and see they sell tonnes of knockoffs straight out of SE Asia.)
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Something tells me that their 'envirnomental' protections they are agreeing to would get them thrown into prison if used in Europe or America.
"Child Labor Child labor is not to be used in any stage of manufacturing. The term "child" refers to any person employed under the age of 15 (or 14[...]" This IS GOOD! BRAVO! However... Some C/C++ prodigies might get hurt, or will they? BTW, what is the expected age of programming prodigies to attain professional level? 14, 16, 18? I think Linus was something like closer to 20 or something.
Kudos to all involved. I haven't read the actual agreement yet, but from the article it sounds like a very promising begining. Technology and computers these days are great, and I hope they keeps going strong, but I'd hate to see people trampled on along the way. Now, I guess thats one less thing to have to worry about, eh?
William George
all big corp biz get along, where you been? hike the price damn the user...
Do as HP says not as HP does.
My favorite businesspeak phrase in the article:
Yeah, globalization, would, by it's very nature, occur in many parts of the world. Sheesh!
What about including "not locking users into Windows via OEM agreements with Satan! er...Microsoft!
As opposed to globalizing in just one part of the world?
"we are globalizing in many parts of the world." == we are shopping jobs to those areas where our cost is the least and will enable us to maximize profit. Typical pump-up shareholder stuff, typical another worker in a higher paying region loses a job.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
The almighty buck is weaker than you think. There was an interesting discussion going on on alt.fan.pratchett regarding where books are coming from. Even Euro booksellers are shipping US printed copies of Going Postal (the latest book) because they can get them cheaper than the UK editions. A big clue as to which you have is the cover (US: Arm reaching out of a stack of envelopes, UK: A central man in a gold uniform in a scene reminiscent of the Star Wars Ep:IV poster)
So we're exporting some things, thanks to Europe getting their sh!t together and developing a strong Euro. They can feel good about buying from us for taking care of our environment, even if many workers are now in parttime jobs w/o healthcare, pension, etc. Maybe this is the way to get our manufacturing base back together? Let the dollar slide some more.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Regarding your point about LOW wages in the software services business (which you call the IT Boom in Bangalore), most of the profits for companies shipping work to other countries comes *not* from paying low wages, BUT because of the *low* Cost of Living in these countries. For example, (according to the same program you saw) the cost of living in India is 1/5th (0.2x) that in the US. This means that you can pay employees 1/5th of the wage and still keep them happy. There's also the exchange rate factor which comes in, but I've rambled enough.
The Conditions being targetting by this Code of Conduct are not for software programmers (usually White Collar workers) but for workers in the actual silicon chip manufacturing units (usually a Blue Collar job).
I'm tired of people claiming that Software engineers in India/etc work in pathetic conditions, while most of the people I know who work live at a *higher* standard of living than the rest of the population. Just because they get paid 1/5th the equivalent in US Dollars does *not* mean they're working for less. It's just that it costs less to maintain a comfortable lifestyle there.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
"It has been said that arguing against globalization is like arguing against the laws of gravity."
-Kofi Annan, Ghanaian diplomat, seventh secretary-general of the United Nations, 2001 Nobel Peace Prize
How about a clause that says they won't do evil things to bolster their relationship with other vendors, just to make a quick buck?
For 70 years after such shocking events as the Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire, American labor organized to protect the labor market, its workers, and the economy that depends on it from the shortsighted profit hunger of American corporations. In global ports like Boston, New York, Los Angeles and elsewhere, American labor turned skills, productivity, quality and reliability into globally superior goods, filling global markets with American brands. But American corporations turned the tides in the 1980s, undermining labor and outsourcing manufacturing to other countries without the labor or environment protections in the US, while reducing those safeguards here. So yes, now we've got overseas sweatshops polluting the globe, while a few shareholders and executives keep the profits. After generations of success under American labor laws, that's the consequence of selling out labor to the profiteers.
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make install -not war
The West has always been on the forefront of human rights and worker's rights. Ditto for the environment.
Check out the last study by the Silicon Valley Toxics coalition. The study evaluates each computer companies' commitment to the environment. The top-ranked companies were all companies based in Western countries (e.g. Japan and the USA) and run on Western principles.
In the study, Dell received a failing grade. That Dell is finally cleaning up its act is good news.
Note that all the Korean and Chinese (including Taiwanese and Hong Kong) companies received failing grades. Interestingly, Korean and Chinese clothing factories in South America and Southeast Asia are notorious for abusing garment workers. Abuse includes beatings and rape.
The companies that treat garment workers best are American and Japanese.
If you hate the state of world affairs, join me in writing the following on the November ballot.
president: Bill O'Reilly
vice-president: Tammy Bruce
Now we can pay more for our computers and still have the jobs outsourced at the same time. Yay for free trade!
This is what corporations do when they give Congress an excuse to "deregulate": "police themselves". This agreement has no teeth for violations, as it's just a mutual agreement, public relations. If they standardize their global labor contracts, and commit to these standards in those contracts, with specified consequences for breaking them (contractual or under enforcable local laws), they'll have something. Until then, all they've written is a "get out of jail free" card.
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make install -not war
How about publishing lowest wage paid anywhere along the supply chain? I'd like to have the lowest Euros/hour paid right next to the price tag on all goods in stores. It should be international law, and developed countries insist on it for all imports...
How would you react to seeing two toasters: one for $20, with a minimum wage of $3, and another for $18 with a minimum wage of $1?
-- http://thegirlorthecar.com funny dating game for guys
Where are these companies?
and Yes, MS is into hardware these days. While they may not directly manufacture the devices, they buy them from others. Do they go with the cheapest, od do they buy only from quality companies?
Likewise Sun. How do they act outside of a regulated area?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Section C, subset 4 which states
"Air Emissions
Air emissions of volatile organic chemicals, aerosols, corrosives, particulates, ozone depleting chemicals, and combustion by-products generated from operations and the massive eating of curry are to be treated as required prior to discharge and entry to work."
is this a hint at more outsourcing in the future?
As we've seen over the last decade, corporations are above the law. If they aren't above the law then they will use their political influence ($$$$) to get said laws in place. The sad thing is that these companies create a document which justifies their motivations to hire disadvantaged people in third world countries.
What happens if they don't follow all the codes?
Loopholes can be found and more than likely they will be exploited.
1. Hire people under quetionable working coditions.
2. Create code of conduct to cover my ass.
3. PROFIT $$$$$
A president who is more of the same while grabbing at those under him; A lier, a cheat, and a big mouth who refuses to take ANY responsibility for his action.
A lesbian who is hated by her own party and even the admin (I suspect that she must really hate herself).
They will really change things.
Yes, that actually was initiated by the Mayor of New York, La Guardia, when he first took office.
Only took twenty years since the infamous Triangle Shirtwaist Company fire for someone to do something about it. Wonderful, mmm?
Please help metamoderate.
America is going to have to expect to pay more for goods and services, just like the rest of the world.
Our exploitation can only last so long before we run out of countries to exploit.
Ugggh!
"Give me taste, give me funk, give me fury, gimme some more."
"we are globalizing in many parts of the world."
We're firing engineers in America and replacing them with cheap foreign labor.
I don't know about the rest, but IBM doesn't make most of their own computers. They contract it out to companies like Sanmina-SCI, Solectron and others. S-SCI has moved most of the work to Mexico. But given IBM's relationship with their contractors, they may decide to slide this in after the contracts are signed.
Someone hates these cans.
Great.. there are thousands of kids and struggling families that would love to have their 12 year old do work at one of these factories. This stupid document is just part of the growing socialism. What 16,17,o r18 year old needs to be restricted for night work.. its bullshit.
No, because IBM, Dell, and HP will all just use convoluted supply and manufacturing chains, and guard their supplier's identities as best they can.
Why? Obfuscation and "plausible deniability". Every time a human rights organization actually manages to figure out what sweatshop is actually making (insert major fashion label here), the label acts all shocked, says "Gosh, we had NO idea, we have POLICIES to PREVENT this sort of thing, we TOLD them we didn't want them to use sweatshop labor, heads will ROLL!" So they simply find another company, in secret of course, and the whole thing repeats all over again.
We need human rights laws, both nationally and on an international level- backed up by hard monetary sanctions scaled so that they make it completely unprofitable, not just a slap on the wrist. The world court should be able to command banks of UN member nations to seize the assets of the company involved so they can't hide behind foreign incorporation (and most major US companies now do- they're incorporated out of a PO box in the islands- also handy for getting out of taxes, and they do that too; current corporate share of tax burden is about 2%; in 1950 it was 50%).
Please help metamoderate.
"This is a very exciting time in the world of information. It's not just that the personal computer has come along as a great tool. The whole pace of business is moving faster. Globalization is forcing companies to do things in new ways."
-Bill Gates
"companies must comply with minimum-wage laws; and overtime and benefits policies must be in accordance with the law where the factories are located." Okay, that's well and great, but many/most of these factories are located in export processing zones where the laws are way more lax than the countries in which they are located. It sounds like another hollow attempt to appease people with consciences. Great marketing ploy!
These companies are trying to self-regulate the industry for these reasons:
1) Look better in the public eyes
2) They hope that if they self-regulate, governments won't regulate them
3) With self-regulaton they can optimize the conditions for large corporations. This will help them to fight off smaller competitors, who can't afford to comply.
What is really missing is a new Consumer's Bill of RIght in Global Economies.
Corporations pushed forward for laws, regulations which opens up free flow of capital, investment, manufacturing, etc.
In the meantime, the very same corporations are trying to keep the old system, in which consumers are forced to act by local rules.
Some examples: Senior Americans are trying to buy drugs from Canada. Drug manufacturers are trying everything to make this illegal, becouse they want to maintain different price structure in different countries. Some drug companies even making threats to establish quota's or even not to sell their products in certain countries.
DVD makers establish "countru codes", with the clear purpose of maintaining different prices in different countries.
It's obviously absurd: if corporations are free to buy, manufacture, invest anywhere in the world, then consumers should have the same right to purchase anything from anywhere in the world, without duties, extra taxes.
I am waiting for the universal Consumer's Bill of Rights, which will make illegal for corporations to prevent custumers to buy globally.
Companies which would not allow consumers to buy globally, should not be allowed to invest, manufacture, etc. globally.
Just Another Random.Idea
That's a great quote. BUT... It over-simplifies things quite a bit. The rapid outsouring of high paying skilled labor needs to slow down a little to give those economies that are losing jobs time to re-adjust.
High tech (high-skill) jobs require a major investment to get... 4 to 6 years of college at a cost of thousands of dollars for many of us. It's dangerous to confuse manufacturing jobs which require little or no training (and thus little or no skill) with high tech jobs that require years of training. Jobs that require very little training tend to pay much less.
Right now in the US the average new job created pays about $800 less a month than the jobs that are lost overseas. If the trend continues and the outsourcing increases at an exponential rate, it could lead to a serious economic disaster and a hollowing-out of the middle class.
Okay. I'm done venting. Feel free to yell at me if you wish.
"False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
"60 hour work weeks except in some circumstances" - it's 6 days a week 10 hours per day
"children 14 and above are considered adults where law permits"
"hazardous waste to be "characterized"
It's littered with zero-accountability phrases like this. The range in which this document can be interpreted is pretty wild.
Sounds like "get out of the jail free" document to me.
As a side note, if their foreign workers aren't even getting this much respect, then I see why everything coming out of third world is so cheap. It's all made by 14 year old kids working 12 hours a day six days a week without any protection, medical insurance, etc.
I've lost any desire to buy anything from HP, IBM or anyone else involved in this crap. Give me "made in the US" label or give me death.
Abolish the minimum wage law and you create even richer rich people and even poorer poor people.
THIS is exactly the way things OUGHT to be. Forget Government regulations which do nothing but cause problems. In addition, these three companies have banded together in a unified way to do something GOOD (tm) for no just the US of A, but everyone.
These guys did NOT have to partner with their COMPETITORS to come up with something, let alone this.
However, I hate to be the bearer of bad news. This is NOT going to be good enough for some wacked out leftwing unibomber types. I am willing to bet that there is at least one complaint that this is NOT good enough, and is some sort of corporate pandering, that does nothing. The sad thing is, it is wackos that don't even let the ink dry, before they start harping.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Dear penisbird,
:)
You seem to have a lot of drive and enthusiasm, which is obviously not finding a productive outlet, have you thought about getting some part-time work in IT? Perhaps try doing some volunteer work!
Maybe you've not yet graduated and are going through that 'difficult' stage. Girls don't seem to like you, the sporty kids bully you. We've all been there, it'll pass. The simple fact that is girls mature faster than boys.
In a few years, you'll look back on these days and laugh!
Anyway, take care.
AC.
Racist.
Furthermore, voting for Bill O'Reilly will not be a wasted vote even if he cannot win. Indeed, he cannot win even if he receives more than 50% of the popular vote in all the states because, by the rules of most states, even a write-in candidate must register his candidacy.
However, if O'Reilly receives a sufficiently large percentage of the vote, then he can alter politics for the next decade. Consider Ross Perot. He lost the election, but because he received a large percentage of the popular vote, his ideas won. The Republican party adopted most of his ideas in "The Contract with America", and most of them became law. A good example is "workfare".
So, let's rebuild America into the "shining city on the hill". Write the following on the November ballot.
president: Bill O'Reilly
vice-president: Tammy Bruce
There are really only two ways this can go - either the multinationals will use shell companies to get around it, or lots of people in the very poorest countries will lose their jobs. Either they'll be replaced by machines, or by workers in countries with a better infrastructure. So jobs would move from, say, the poorest areas of Guatemala to slightly-less-poor areas in Eastern Europe, where the wage/infrastructure ratio is a better fit to the agreement.
Also, I'm all for getting rid of child labor, but if the child is feeding his family, who is being helped by throwing him out of work? Child labor laws only make sense in countries that are wealthy enough to give people an alternative to starvation if the child doesn't work (because he's an orphan, or has sick parents, etc).
This is a classic example of applying rich-world-thinking to places it doesn't make sense. These people need jobs - as many as they can get. I'd rather see 1000 people making just enough to feed their families than 500 making twice as much and 500 starving.
If you really want to help people in the third world, the best way is to stop subsidizing the destruction of poor-country economies. A good place to start would be the abolition of farm subsidies in the rich world. Rich world farm subsidies have destroyed the major source of work in the less developed (mostly agrarian) countries. That's what creates the huge pool of jobless workers available for factory jobs. Does it seem reasonable a farmer in California can grow rice (which reqires lots of irrigation in California) and ship it to Asia and undercut a farmer who's making virtually nothing compared to the American farmer?
How about having real free trade, not just free trade when no first-world jobs are in danger? How about cutting some of the reasonable-sounding regulations that exist solely to keep out third-world competition. How about not lending development money to corrupt governments (so they can buy military hardware from the lender) and then saddling the next three generations of the country with a debt-induced inflationary spiral?
If these people had an alternative to sweatshop work, the Nikes of the world would have to compete for their labor. Then you would have a real improvement in the lives of poor people around the world and not just some salve for the conscience of well-meaning people in rich countries.
But, hey, isn't it all about people in the rich world feeling better?
Read the byline, the correct source is:
By Therese Poletti, (San Jose) Mercury News
Ageist.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
And I've put together my computer by myself. Its motherboard and processor were assembled by robots.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
But American corporations turned the tides in the 1980s, undermining labor and outsourcing manufacturing to other countries without the labor or environment protections in the US, while reducing those safeguards here.
The fundamental root cause of this exploitation is not the mean greedy management. I do not wish to imply that the management is not mean and greedy, rather this greed is enabled by the fact that the population in the developing world is exploding far faster than the economy is growing. In the USA, Canada, Euro Union, and Japan, the economy grows more or less at the same rate as the population.
In the developing world and the poor parts of the countries listed above (especially the USA), the population grows much faster than the economy. Millions of young people leave school and the village to come to the city to look for non-existant work.
If the population in the developing world were not exploding, there would not likely be such mean sweatshops. But it is exploding and will continue to explode, far faster than the local economy will now ever be able to grow to meet the needs of the new people.
Some developing or mid-level countries have serious population limiting programs in place. The most severe is, as everyone knows, is China with its 'one-child' policy. Even more successful but not as well-known is Iran. An example of having no government population policy would be Mexico, whose population nearly doubled in 30 years from 45 million to 85 million with little real growth in the economy. The Mexican government, like the Philipines, handles all the surplus people by sending them to other countries and relying in the money earned there being sent home.
An example of a deliberate government policy of forcing population growth to impose a foreign policy on a hostile neighbor is Palestine. Although the 'country' is dirt poor and has no resources or long-term prospects, the government enforces of policy of unrestrained population growth. This is a specific policy to increase the number of people (and their misery) in the face of an actually shrinking economy in order encourage the other countries of the world to put pressure on Israel to change its occupation policies. This is like the beggars in India who scar and maim their childern in order to have them bring in more money from the pitying passerbys.
There are no answers, only a greater awareness of the situation and the dimensions of the tragedy. However if answers and new approaches do come, they won't come from governments, laws, or religions. They will come from Nerds and their technology!
Forced, bonded or indentured labor or involuntary prison labor is not to be used. All work will be voluntary, and workers should be free to leave upon reasonable notice. Workers shall not be required to hand over government-issued identification, passports or work permits as a condition of employment.
I wish I can have employment with presenting identification. Alas, I must also submit to a background check, a credit check and a drug test.
Coderz 4 Life
http://shit.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/22/1 815252
Homer: (runs lawn mower over a rollerskate and engine stops up.) "Bart, you've got small girlish hands, can you reach under the mower for me?"
(Bart begins to reach under the mower, but the its motor starts back up and mower spits out shredded rollerskate)
Homer: Never mind.
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
No, because IBM, Dell, and HP will all just use convoluted supply and manufacturing chains, and guard their supplier's identities as best they can.
Well, I do know that HP outsources their technical support to Stream, vCustomer (India), and Sutherland (India), just off the top of my head (you only ever talk to HP personally if you've been escalated to corporate (third level or CEO transfer), or if you call the corporate HQ directly, in which case you'll just be transferred back to us. It should also be noted that Stream has been sold a few times, and while I do not have information on HP's manufacturing, I would wager a guess that a lot of it goes to Solectron, once parent company of Stream.
You know, just in case you were wondering.
Seriously, I'm tired of people bringing in computers to the computer repair shop I work at running Windows XP with 128 fucking megs of RAM. When will these companies QUIT DOING THAT?! Windows XP simply CANNOT run on 128M of RAM at a rate anything better than 'mediocre'. Add antivirus software, which is a MUST now, and you've got a system that runs like crap because it's constantly paging to the hard drive! I'm sick of it! Then when I call people and tell them they need more RAM, and their bill would be around $250, they start asking why not for a couple hundred more they don't just buy a NEW ONE! Aggravation!!
[insert witty comment here]
Wilful "Hear no Evil, See no Evil", or just an arrogant lack of compassion for anything that doesn't directly affect geeks (like, say, the differences between different releases of the Star Wars films)?
You decide.
The original reports and campaign from CAFOD can be found around here.
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I suppose you are trolling but as your comment is high rated, I'll give some food to thought :
WHY the HELL would you bring the GOVERNMENT into this
it's called democracy.
Do you prefer to live in a world where the rules are established by a democratic government or a world where the strongest dictate their will ?
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel