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Virtual Stuntmen Ready for Hollywood
Kerhop writes "Discovery Channel has an article about a new form of virtual actors in movies. In particular "Endorphin's virtual actors learn how to move and react independently, unlike most computerized characters now that depend on fixed databases containing animated clips". MSNBC also is featuring a news video (no direct link is available, stream must to be added to playlist). The featured software Endorphin is created by Natural Motion."
Now we get to hear the people in Hollywood complain about having their jobs outsourced to computers.
Virtual porn stars!!!
So now we have to teach our virtual stuntmen how to act, instead of just telling them what to do? ?_?
Dated: June 26, 2003
and from the article "...will make their debut next year in the film "Troy,"..."
Frist psot?
^_^
I started reading the Discovery Channel article and saw they'd make their debut "next year in the film 'Troy.'" And I thought, hey, they just made a movie about Troy, they're going to make another one? Then I saw the June 26, 2003 date of the article. Slow news day I guess.
"This? I can make a hat, I can make a brooch, I can make a pterodactyl..."
....seems to be a good idea. And I'm quite sure that it'll be interesting to see what movies take advantage of this new technology....as well as which actors, just to be macho, will still do all their own stunts.
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure dome decree
I assumed many "stunts" were done my CG!
How about the burning Terminator emerging from
the fire in Terminator 2?
...to reproduce the robotic movements of the virtual Stallone and Bronson.
Forget movies...this would/could revolutionize gaming. Could you imagine actual thinking/reacting NPC characters that are not just set to a script. And if literally you can get fluid muscle movements... the graphics could be amazing. Okay, I'm done fantasizing. Regardless of how many times I see new "Revolutionary" technology it never seizes to amaze me.
June 26, 2003
The world's first virtual stuntmen, born out of an Oxford University zoologist's research into human motion, will make their debut next year in the film "Troy," according to a press release issued this week by the university.
I thought this site was supposed to be News for nerds. This story is over a year old.
Let's play video games with mailmanZERO
Celebrity Deathmatch
A goal is a dream with a deadline
... he'll come on at the start of every movie, and tell the kids to quit downloading his code!
Olds for Amnesiacs. Stuff that mattered.
Did Buzz Lightyear do his own stunts, or did he have a stunt double?
Live forever, or die trying.
OMG OMG THIS ISN"T NEWS ITS A YEAR OLD.
Did the vast majority of Slashdot hear about this already. This is the first I've seen it, so its news to me.
Dupes are one thing, but if the article has never been posted and most people don't know about it...whats the big deal?
can be found here
Reminds me of the scene near the end of The Running man. The lame movie, not the awesome Steven King novel.
Apple is rumored to be developing a portable MP3 player that has a hard drive, leaked sorces say it's name will be the 'I-Pod'
Outsourced actors......well, the next logical step would be to somehow figure out a way to force them to belong to the screen actors guild (union), before the are allowed to "act"
You could taking a new attractive star and keep them that way for eternity. You could fill a database with movements and speech from the person, pay them a hefty royalty up front, and put them in whatever movie you want. They'll never get old, at least age wise. This kind of service probably won't fly with the actor's guild. Another lawsuit for the pile.
seize
Let's play video games with mailmanZERO
Al Qaeda has ninjas!
At least there will be less of the "actor hanging from wires in front of a blue screen" inaccurate physics and gravity simulations.
What relation does this technology have to the Weta Digital's Massive program, which was used to create the characters for the war scenes in the Lord of the Rings movies? That program used sub-elements called Agents which could be tailored to give you certain randomated AI actions for characters. (Check the LOTR DVDs or google for Weta Massive for more info... I don't want to slashdot anyone in particular ;-) )
Wow... imagine a whole bunch of these taught to do Beowulf...
i didn't RTFA (i'm at work...i can only waste so much time ya know), but i hope it's not all dopey and video-game looking.
anyone remember certain fight scenes from blade 2?
*shudder*
This sig contains repetition and redundancy.
There are two main approaches to this - the "animation splicing" systems, where canned bits of motion are spliced together by a program, and the "behavior" systems, where control programs are trying to optimize some goal. The first major appearance of a good "splicing" system was the baby 'zillas in Godzilla 2000. That's what most feature films are using today.
Kinematic motion generation has been around for years, and that's what you see in games. It doesn't look real, but it works well enough for gameplay. The physics isn't realistic. That's why, from across the room, EA Football looks different from NFL football. Those jerky motions really pop out at you, especially when they're alternated with nice motion-captured moves.
Endorphin isn't as automated as it looks; much manual tweaking of the motion is necessary. Motion Factory has more automation, but it's kinematic. Automatic physically-realistic animation is hard, because you have to solve the robotic control problem. The animation community may yet do this. But they're not there yet.
(I've done some work on this.)
Isn't it people who download movies that put people like stuntmen out of jobs?
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/downloads/protected /world_of_warcraft_open_beta_installer_downloader. exe
REAL actors can "act cg". Why have virtual actors when the actors could act virtual? Watch actors acting virtual!
--I smoked my sig.
Although the article may be a year old, this news was only aired on the Discovery Channel this week.
...virtual Darwin Award.
Table-ized A.I.
Entire movies without a single ego!
"You cannot say NO to me! I will not allow it!"
The only thing new in this world is the history that you don't know.[Harry Truman]
Within 10 years, someone will make a full-length, CGI feature film that's indistinguishable from "live, shot on film."
It may not be cost effective, but the cat will be out of the bag.
The actor's guilds will moan and groan. Actor's "trademark voices and mannerisms" will become protected intellectual property, with exemptions for spoofs and other "fair use." There will be court fights for awhile.
You won't see many new film actors after that point.
Porn will be among the early adopters go "all digital" for hygenic, financial, and other reasons. We'll have a lot of unemployed former porn stars.
On the plus side, the division between movies and games will blur. As someone else already hinted, games of the future will look "live" rather than animated. Sports games will "star" real NBA players that look as real as they do on TV. Movie-based games will "star" the same characters as in the movies, and will look just as real.
One potential downside to this technology that must, and will, be worked around:
Videotapes of crimes will become suspect. Unless you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the tape was NOT created in a computer, it will be inadmissable in court. You'll see security cameras equipped with "electronic seals" that stand up in court. These seals will say "this is what the camera saw and this is when it saw it."
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The article may be old news, but fully reactive software stunt men have been around since 2002. I did hours of "research" on this topic with some really good software.
Well, I'm not the kind to kiss and tell, But I've been seen with Farrah
I've never been with anything less than a nine, so fine.
I've been on fire with Sally Field, gone fast with a girl named Bo.
But somehow they just don't end up as mine, so fine.
It's a death-defying life I lead, I'll take my chances.
I've died for a living in the movies and tv.
But the hardest thing I'll ever do is watch my leading ladies,
Kiss some other guy while I'm bandaging my knee.
I might fall from a tall building, I might roll a brand-new car,
'Cause I'm the unknown stuntman that made Redford such a star.
I've never spent much time in school, but I've taught ladies plenty.
It's true I hire my body out for pay, hey hey!
I've gotten burned over Cheryl Tiegs, blown up over Rachel Welch
But when I wind up in the hay, it's only hay, hey hey!
I might jump an open drawbridge, or Tarzan from a vine,
'Cause I'm the unknown stuntman, that makes Eastwood look so fine
Ceci n'est pas un post.
Clearly the next step is to make the audience virtual. You send your movie-watching robot to watch the movie for you, and it e-mails you a "thumbs-up" or "thumbs-down", freeing you to read a book or take a walk. Perhaps this is progress after all.
Soylent Green is peoplicious!
Which isn't much different from directing a Seagal film.
Mercy was given to me by Christ...I must give the same to others.
Hey there - I love a woman with 64 bits
These guys are so behind the times. Al Pacino created the perfect virtual actress and super-star celebrity *2* years ago, and Rez (of Lo/Rez-fame) married one *7* years ago.
... didn't Keanu Reeves originate the form?
EricWhy Vioxx is like Prozac for lawyers
This system is supposed to debut in the movie Troy. A very apropos irony isnt it? First virtual self-learning stuntmen replace real stunt actors. Then very soon, they will replace the main characters...
Will be a virtual actor!
(insert insulting reference to your favorite politician here)
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)
Or I should say we just had a demo. I work for a Digital Post Production house and we also use Massive for crowd simulation. Endorphin is an interesting technology which I believe demos very well but practical use may prove to be a bit harder.
The basic concept is intersting. Actors are "trained" using a neural network setup. The actions are not captured or keyframed, they are "learned" based on a fuzzy set of rules that allow the actor to adapt to its environment. These behaviors can then be combined to create a complete motion. For instance, in one of the demos you can have one actor tackle another. This is something you could easily motion capture, but the interesting bit happens when you change the direction of the tackle. The actor adapts and falls in a new way because the "tackle" is a behavior. The combination of dynamics and adaptive motion allow you to make changes without having to build lots of new in-betweens or blend shapes. It also allows you to set target poses, not target positions. For instance, in that tackle, if you want the actor to end in a Hesiman pose and then change the animation to a different position, the actor will finish in that pose in the new end position, not snap back to where you set the pose.
Unfortunately, this also has some big drawbacks. These behaviors that are taught to the nueral nets can only be built but the software's creator. You cannot create your own behaviors. I'm sure this type of thing will be opened up in the future, but for now you are stuck with some canned behaviors. Again, makes for great demos but I can easily see hitting the wall with that limitation in production.
Secondly, it only works on bipeds, or more specifically, their biped. Motion re-targeting will allow you to remap the motion to non-human bipeds, but you are still limited to bipeds with human like bio-mechanics.
I also wonder about low level noodle-ability. In animation production, it doesn't matter if it is physically correct, it matters if it looks good and the director is happy. That usually has very little to do with reality (i.e. how interesting would the Matrix have been if people moved in real-world way instead of an interestingly choreographed ballet-fight?) I wonder how adaptable such a sytem is.
This product has a different market than Massive. Massive includes a more simplified fuzzy brain system that allows your motion captured creatures to adapt to their environments or even interact with dynamics. Endorphin is more about syntesizing motion from neural net behaviors. (That is a gross simplification, but hopefully gives some context.)
I like the idea of where this is going, but I think it has to mature a bit more before it is really useful to us.
... the computers will be complaining about having their work outsourced to cheaper systems abroad.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Direct link to video (requires Windows Media):
mmst://od-msn.msn.com/14/mbr/DTW_Virtua lStuntman.wmv
(Don't bitch that I didn't make it clickable, and that it has a space in it; both are due to Slashdot issues)
"Time is an abstract concept devised by carbon-based lifeforms to monitor their ongoing decay." - Thundercleese
Is anyone excited (or, alternately, annoyed) over the prospect of CG body doubles? Rather than brining in large-breasted, ugly-faced body double lady for the love ("love") scene, they just load in a well-proportioned CG actor?
...I'd still hit it.
I almost misread that as "Virtual Statemen Ready for Hollywood," which made me think "don't they have those in congress already?"
A hack is just an idiom waiting for wider use.
Since we're all running FF here, how the heck do we play MSN video without IE? More importantly, how the heck do we watch it in Linux??? Grumble, grumble...
I believe that I have seen this before, in both the "Truck Dismount" (Rekkaturvat) and "Stair Dismount" (Porrasturvat) versions. They are available for download.
My favorite was trying to get the truck to throw the guy *completely* over the wall, or go for bonus points getting the guy's head to rattle back and forth between the wall and the truck grill.
Great for getting stress out on a boss (at the time) whom we imagined we were putting on the truck, etc.
---
wwjd? jwrtfm!
...we can turn movie making into a completely safe, risk-free and boring enterprise.
I wonder if it's ok to download clips about virtual stuntsmen, though...
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
I for one welcome our new CG overlords.
To be precise, Looker.
Star Wars Episode II already had virtual stunt men. Some of Obi Wan's fight with Jango was done with CG characters. Like, when Obi Wan is grabbed by the grappeling hook, and when he does a back flip down the roof of the building...