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Intel's BTX Form Factor Launched Today
Hack Jandy writes "It's been almost three years in the making, but Intel's BTX form factor finally has some retail products to show for itself. Anandtech has some extremely thorough benchmarks of the new technology and proves that BTX definitely shows an improvement over ATX for the same sized chassis. Anand claims BTX as a design win, "It's obvious why Intel waited for Monday morning to lift their BTX platform - they have a winner on their hands.""
So far, it looks interesting. But I'm curious, it it's inteded competition the AMD64 platform boards, or will AMD have it's own version of BTX in the (near) future?
Was about time they came up with such specs!
However time may prove me wrong on this (hell, I backed Beta vs VHS).
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
What I'm curious to know is if these guys FINALLY got rid of those god-awful nests of wires that you have to plug into the mobo for power, HDD LED, etc.
God, I hate those things. You either have to spend 15 min. reading the Engrish on the mobo manual to try and figure out which is which, or just cross your fingers and hope for the best.
A molex-type connector (or something along those lines) would make my life a lot easier.
Anyone know?
I really like the size of this thing.
I can already see it...the lunchbox laptop!
Gateway's 7200 line uses BTX.
I've looked at it semi-seriously and most of it seems to be only tweaks on ATX while being intentionally incompatibile. Most of those tweaks can and have been done already, and IMO, BTX is mostly unnecessary.
I personally was slow to accept ATX simply because I had a legacy case and didn't want to upgrade for the sake of an upgrade. Now I have a small number of ATX based computers and I don't see the point of scrapping the entire system, possibly save for the drives, just to go to BTX. I bet most BTX boards will be pretty exclusive to PCIe or only provide a minimum of legacy PCI slots. With existing ATX boards and cases, I can at least keep more of my PCI cards becase most of them don't have PCIe equivalents and they still work.
Judging by this image I'd say no. Looks like the same assortment of little twistyfellas.
there have been few pictures of standard btx boards, if you compare the micro-BTX boards that have been shown to micro-atx the slots are the same (2 memory maybe 2-3 expansion slots) i've actually been able to see a gigabyte BTX system in action with a standard btx board in it, it actually had 4 memory slots, and a PCI-X 16 and 4 PCI-X slots, as well as 2 traditional pci slots. for a grand total of 7 slots... at least iirc... its been a few months. I was worried about it too, until I talked to the gigabyte rep about btx.
The problem seems to be the relative CPU and DIMM placement; the standard requires placement of DIMM sockets too far from the processor. With the Athlon 64's integrated memory controller, following the BTX spec becomes very difficult. Of course, BTX is Intel's spec, but it is also a proposed industry standard.
Anybody else think Intel did this on purpose?
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Seems like the story is confusing the benchmarks on the 3.8G P4 570J that are linked at the beginning of the BTX review with the BTX review itself.
The BTX is just a PC form factor - it may help your PC run a bit cooler, but it won't make it any faster.
Grabbed from Koan Computers: BTX - What is it BTX is the new computer case form factor that is replacing the aging ATX form factor. Some highlights of BTX are: BTX stands for Balanced Technology eXtended. BTX is being developed by Intel but will be supported across all platforms. BTX will initially have 3 sizes - BTX, microBTX and picoBTX. BTX is designed from the ground up with noise reduction in mind. PS2 connectors, Serial Ports, and Parallel Ports - all replaced by USB. PCI Express slots instead of AGP, PCI, or ISA. 20pin power supply will remain compatible with ATX, with the addition of 3.3v connectors for Serial ATA.
AnimeNEXT anime convention
Honestly, though: WTF? That can't be a hard fix. In fact, I'd bet it's downright simple.
I imagine they say it would increase case costs, but really, the increase would be marginal.
I'm seriously getting tired of these guys making new stuff with features 75% of us don't use or care about, and not making simple usability fixes instead.
It seems that you can almost get something similar for AMD platforms, and existing Intel ones as well. Some new cases flip the mobo upside down in the case and put it at the top, while moving the power supply to the bottom. Obviously not quite as good as a whole re-design like BTX but it seems to help quite a bit.
see: Lian Li PC-V1000 (I think Anand may have a review too)
Not only that, but this would have been the best time to introduce a change like that... a whole new formfactor means all new chassis design, just like it means all new motherboard design. There would be no compatibility headaches as long as it was part of the spec.
We'll probably have to wait for CTX now to fix it, if at all. And then, they'd get sued by the folks who've been calling themselves CTX for years and making monitors and OEM systems.
I'm waiting for VIA to start selling the Nano ITX boards they were showing. Those are super cool.
...with your new nickname that the industry will forever recognize...
ButToX
I am not a big fan of this BTX form factor. Though they only tested the micro size it seems they are trading decibels for degrees. Now that is fine for a media center type of box but what about a gaming machine? Until I see a rig with one of those power hungry video cards running at acceptable temperatures then I may be impressed.
BTX doesn't look like it allows for multi-processor boards. Is intel pusing towards a world where SMP is via multi-core CPUs only?
Real men don't bother hooking that stuff up. I don't need LEDs and if I need to reboot my machine I'll pull the power cord... but really why would I ever need to hard reboot my machine? Hell, who needs a case?
The size will be an issue. It's a big enough pain to work on a standerd ATX machine let alone micro or picoBTX.
It is however a good idea that all the old connections are gone. Pci, Isa, Parallal and Serial. The only problem is that one now has to seriously think before buying BTX machine if they want their old mice and printer to work.
I'm not gonna start off by bashing the whole Intel community, and gloating about Apple, but really, would it have been so hard to incorporate those wires into a single connector?
That kind of goat-thinking is responsible for the medicricy of today's machines when compared to Apple hardware.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
This is similar to the layout of the PowerMac G4 MDD (Mirrored Drive Doors) model. It even has a reflected organization of the expansion slots.
Seems like an odd choice for comparing Apple to PCs. Last I checked there was no easy way to even build your own Mac from scratch and not a whole lot of choices in form factor if you do.
And who says that PC hardware is mediocre compare to Apple hardware? They are pretty 95% the same hardware. It is just how it is assembled that is different and there are plenty of PC manufacturers who do as nice a job.
Yes, they've fixed this. The light and power wires are now bundled together and have a single plug. This is actually mentioned in the article.
So the major gain of BTX is heat savings. Can we translate this into a meaningful improvement to homebuilt PVRs like MythTV? The improved design should mean you can run a faster CPU or use quieter fans. Especially for a device that you might like to keep 'on' at all times, I'd imagine that a quiter fan would be a nice win for those playing at home.
Anyone planning on picking one up and trying it out?
I Browse at +4 Flamebait
Open Source Sysadmin
We'll probably have to wait for CTX now to fix it, if at all.
Actually, nope. BTX seems to fix this, the article said this:
We also notice that the front panel connections (power/reset buttons, power/HDD activity lights) are also grouped into a single plug to make things easier.
nForce.
...just wait. ;^)
Followed by a C++TX.
[RIMSHOT]
How about BoToX ? Giving the aging ATX standard a facelift :p
PCI-X is not the same as PCI-Express (PCIe). I'm pretty sure you mean PCIe.
Dan
it's the truth.
let me get this straight....
intel has introduced a new form factor standard
a) that amd can't follow because their memory controller is integrated into the cpu and the btx standard specifies that the memory must be too far away from the cpu, and in an orientation that would make equal length traces almost impossible
b) whose sole purpose is to provide additional cooling capacity to a processor that ran way hotter than anyone expected, and that intel has now announced will be phased out in favor of the p3 descended pentium-m
and somehow this is a winner? btx will die off with the prescott's. i give it 2 years max.
If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
There is a standard 20-pin header connector which has all those power, HDD LED, etc. wires on it. Almost all motherboards have the pins in the standard configuration. But case manufacturers still use individual leads so that you can use their cases with mobos that don't have the standard config.
I'm sure you didn't mean Molex. Molex is what your HDD uses for power. Those connectors suck. Their insertion/removal force is far too high, they'll lead to motherboard damage.
RTFA says yes, they did. The mishmash of led, powerswitch etc cables has been combined into a single plug.
This is not a sig.
I like it as it is, since I never plug in the PC speaker unless I need it to see why the computer isn't booting anymore.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Personally, I like the idea of BoToX... swollen and paralyzed with an injection of Intel's poison.
This is not a sig.
A "legacy" case had all the individual knockouts for ports on the back. The only connector location that was standardized was the location of the AT-keyboard (not PS2!) port.
Surely you can't say that you thought that ATX had no advantages over that!
BTX doesn't require PCIe. I didn't know until today that it requires Intel. I'd be shocked if it didn't also accomodate Athlon somehow.
More advanced cooling is strictly necessary. Computers need to become quieter and more efficient if they are to be sold for use in the living room. And that's needed because everyone already has a computer or two in their "office" room. If you want to sell them more, you have to work around this problem.
To call this design conservative would be a great insult. There is hardly anything new, nor interesting coming from Intel.
...
The boards are still too big. There are still way too many cables and different ports (internally and externally). The CPUs suck ever more power (don't get me started about graphic cards). And the coolers get bigger every year. The BIOS even more settings to ruin ones day.
And when will PCs stop wasting so much enery?! 450 Watts to play a music file and surf the internet
Whatever happened to make things SIMPLER and more efficient?
BTX allows for varying ports on the back, just like ATX does. If you have a motherboard with a parallel port, it will come with a metal plate for the back that allows the parallel port to come though. In fact, the motherboard in this article clearly has a parallel port on it.
Total conspiracy theories here.
Personally, I use only USB mice and keyboards, have for years. I do this because I also use Macs, and thus I can share peripherals (even use the same KVM).
if that's what you mean by "heat savings". Intel CPUs will put out the same amount of heat no matter what case/cooling design you use. Also, you still have infrastructure costs such as putting in 30 amp circuits and commercial grade AC to run these new and improved space heaters.
You know, ATX systems could be designed well, and cooled appropirately... But absolutely nobody is doing so. Actually I think HP might be, but I don't know if their own workstations completely qualify as ATX.
Anyhow, the locations for air intake and output are pretty close to standard, but manufacturers aren't taking advantage of it. CPUs and memory aren't put on a motherboard so they will be in-line with the air intake, and being cooled by the rear exhaust fans, or power supply fan. Instead, it's a hack-fest, with a bunch of fans inside the case, blowing hot air in circles, and hoping the case fans are 10xs more massive then they should need to be, to replenish the whole case with cool air every few seconds.
You can take certain steps on your own, like ducting air from the intake, directly to your CPU, which will cool things down IMMENSELY, but will not help with your RAM, Videocard, etc., which need proper cooling as well.
If you look at old DEC systems, you'll see they already had the cooling thing down to an art. 3 thermal zones, with very slow, quiet, thermo-controlled 80mm fans. They weren't ATX systems, however, and nobody adapted those ideas to PCs.
So, while ATX can be pretty effecient, it isn't happening. If it takes a whole new form-factor to force manufacturers to get it done correctly, then I'm certainly willing to switch. BTX isn't ideal, but it's a big step up.
And you can't say it's only Intel's problem. All processors put off a lot of heat, and with ATX you have to have several very loud fans just to fight against the heat. A better design means cooler, and quieter, whatever processor you use. Sure, maybe Intel will have to ignore the BTX specs on motherboard design where it will hurt them, but that's nothing new. ATX specified that power supply fans should blow air in, not out, but most everyone just ignored that, too.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
From the company that brought us the CPU's that could double as toaster ovens, we now have the BTX. Let's see what improvements (ahem!) we can look forward to:
- More heat: Rather than make the CPU run cooler, we'll redesign the motherboard to accommodate. Oh, and the design will *coincidentally* thwart faster processors by making the trace lengths unequal.
- Fewer options: Windows is the dominate OS, so there's no need for more than one or two PCI cards. Who cares if the onboard peripherals don't support Linux - it's not like buyers would add a PCI card or two to improve performance or achieve interoperability...
This board is a non-starter. The PC overtook the Mac because of the fact that it was more customizable (even if it was technically inferior). If people wanted a big company to restrict which hardware they run, they'd buy an Apple.The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
I went to a local 'Demo Day' last week where one of the local suppliers of all things PC had a BTX case they were showing off. I simply assumed these things had been out for a while, and noted that (this particular case) was wasting the raiser-board, since it didn't include a PCI slot which would have allowed the addition of a full height PCI card horizontally (the vertical slots were all half-height).
Real innovation would be to put the processor on the backside of the mainboard so that the case can be used as a huge heatsink. The graphics card should plug in horizontally, so that it can also use the case for cooling. I'm tired of those noisy power sucking machines. J/
Pictures of the demo case in the article
;)
Is it just me, or does this case look like a throwback to the desktop models of the early nineties? (Especially if you can imagine a riser card to support full-height expansion slots.)
Also, combine this trend in thermal mobo/case design with the pentium-M's coming out and you have a nice cold desktop computer just like we all had 12 years ago. Nice.
All it would need is a 'turbo' switch on the front panel to make it fully retro-tastic.
Damnit there goes my $15 labor fee! Hopefully the USB and firewire are all still seperate little pins or I may be out of a job. ;)
The inside of the BTX case looks very similar to the workstation designs, especially those of SGI. I remember that the Indy workstation didn't have a single fan and was virtually noiseless due to correctly designed air ducts.
PCI Express which is somewhat like SGI's crossbar (PCI Express uses switch instead of bus), AMD's on-CPU memory controllers with NUMA, SATA almost like SCSI, etc. made PC's more and more like workstations. I think that correct thermal design is the last and final thing and BTX is a big step in this direction.
You can defy gravity... for a short time
Yes and where are the headers on the motherboard? Yeah, you name it: smack in the middle of the mobo! Probably they wanted to play a 50/50 chance to where the case manuf. would want to place the plugs so they made it a hassle for all parties! smart... infact the cooler unit header is uselessly way to the edge of the board to the point that it gets into the drive's way... applause!
;-)
While I like the idea of thermal zones (Powermac), external CPU fan intake (iMac G5) I'm not particularly impressed by the overall result, they should have copied better. IMHO, the mountain begat the mouse.
PS. I hate to sound like a bloody mac zealot but things happen to prove such positions... and don't get me started on the Spotlight live search (of BeOS kin) or the Dashboard thingie (that I suppose will make better use of Desktop real estate than the blue slab in Longhorn)...
Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
Am I the only one who thinks it's a bad idea to blow warm air into the user's face?
For a tower model, this would of course not be an issue, but for a desktop model like the one presented in the article. the airflow out of the case might be such that it goes straight into the user's face.
I don't like the "Happy Hacking" keyboard. No cursor pad, no numeric keypad, no function keys. Nothing to safely map META or SUPER to. No angle at all to the keys (much less an adjustable angle) for ergonomics.
It's everything I hate about laptop keyboards, but for a desktop.
----
Open mind, insert foot.
...than to judge by pictures. The article says there is a single standard connector on the motherboard to replace the myriad of fiddly little jumper-like 2-pin connectors. BTX case makers must terminate the "assortment of little twistyfellas" to this single, standard connector. This means you no longer must decipher the secret code screen-printed onto the board or refer to the "happy-excellent Engrish manual" to figure out where the plugs go and what the proper polarity is to make the LEDs emit light.
The "twistyfellas" won't likely disappear any time soon because case designers may want to place the LEDs in different areas of the case, but at least they all find their way to a single connector now.
Systems like those from Shuttle and Soltek are built with custom mainboards that work with their custom case and cooling systems as a truly integrated system, and save space and power as well.
It won't be long before *your* next computer is an SFF system, and it sure won't be based on BTX.
It might encourage people to get up and go outside more often. Which is good. You know, exercise, fresh air.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
(snickering)
Very reminiscent of the first day I heard Apple try to say SCSI was 'Sexy', not 'Scuzzy.'
Market wonks can't conquer the geek sense of humor.
There is absolutely nothing new here. As the owner of a small computer sales and service business I am still trying to support customers with a mix of ATX systems and some AT cases here and there. Adding yet another form factor will only make consumers and their tech support peoples lives more complicated. The heat issue varies from case to case and this new "form factor" changes NOTHING in relation to that issue. The only goal here is to restart lagging "upgrade" sales by the hardware manufacturers (mainly Intel) by forcing an unneeded change upon consumers. What a pathetic joke!
You're missing the point completely. The goal was/is to avoid proprietary hardware like the plague. Shuttle = proprietary. ATX and uATX are mostly what people buy. Anything else is a gamble and it will remain so.
Since they are probably going to be dumping the P4 in favor of the PM (eventually)?
I thought one of the main reasons why BTX was designed was to better handle the hotter P4 processors and to cool them more efficiently?
Warm air from the CPU is exhausted out the FRONT of the case????
Intel changes sockets, Mobo and other specs periodically to force people to update to their latest crap. Don't expect a rush to BTX. It's another Intel spec unlikely to ever gain foothold...
For those who don't already know you can do wonders for ATX case cooling with "managed airflow". By actually directing incoming cool air to the heat sources and isolating the CPU fan from warm air in the case, no one really needs a BTX case and your PC will run much cooler with managed airflow.
While Intel definitely needs a tornado inside a box to cool their defective 90 nm CPUs, the BTX standard is just another Intel marketing scam for all practical purposes.
Just say NO!
Intel should have just made watercooling standard on the Prescott CPU. Apple could have said they stole the idea from them like everything else ;)
the 4-prong thing always results in the same experience for me: i can't get it unplugged easily, so i pull harder and harder and harder. when it finally breaks free, my hand usually smashes into some card or other peripheral, usually breaking the skin on my hand. i know this sounds retarded but there's really no way around it. WHY ON EARTH havent they changed that connector since the 1980's?
Someone already mentioned that there is a design for putting a second CPU in the same "wind tunnel" as the 1-cpu design, but is there any reason there cannot be a BTX-SMP that simply puts multiple processors side-by-side -- like the Mac G5 design -- and adds a few inches in length to board to accomodate the second "wind tunnel?"
Shortly after we all went from AT to ATX I suddenly ended up with quite a few AT cases that could not be recycled by having a newer motherboard installed into them, and so they had to be tossed out. But the benefits of moving from AT to ATX made this worthwhile. I don't see similar benefits with moving from ATX to BTX. It just doesn't seem that much better. Intel should be able to solve their cooling problems with the existing ATX specification.
No no... you have the system wrong.. it was AT->ATX->BTX which makes the next iteration BTXY or Balanced Technology eXtended Yet again
A picoBTX case/motherboard would seem even better (about the size of a small DVD player), but I don't know if a good MythTV box can be build with only one PCIe x1 slot.
Has anyone heard any announcements about a PCIe x1 HDTV card? Now I'd like to get one before July 1st, 2005.
TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
Hell, who needs a case?
who indeed?
It's a mystery...
"Go to CNN [for a] spell-checked, fact-checked summary" -- CmdrTaco