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Former AOLers Bet on Private P2P App

Posted by michael on from the cuecat dept.

buhatkj writes "Some former AOL staffers have come up with something interesting. Namely, a P2P/instant messaging/groupware tool called Grouper. Sounds to me a bit like the GAIM plugin suggested by downhill battle..."

169 comments

  1. Too late in the game... by garcia · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Our technology turns the computer into a private server that allows you to share files securely in a small, invite-only group," Felser said in an interview with eWEEK.com. Each group becomes an encrypted peer-to-peer network that allows one-click access to browse and download files.

    The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

    Running Grouper through university networks can save Internet bandwidth costs because file transfers are done between machines on the local network (unlike other P2P networks).

    Most Universities probably don't want ANY filesharing. A lot of them have limited bandwith for P2P applications as it is. Do you think that really want it going on at all? Probably not. Too many problems w/the RIAA and the MPAA.

    However, Felser said Grouper's emphasis on being a small, private, encrypted network minimizes the risk. "We're a heck of a lot safer to the business because we target very small groups of people who already know and trust each other. And we have a very firm anti-spyware policy. We'll never add spyware or adware of any kind."

    However, to outsiders (RIAA/MPAA) encryption means hiding data that doesn't belong to you. They will counter any argument with that statement.

    P2P is fine with the free alternatives. I'm sorry but I just don't think this program is going anywhere. Maybe if it was created 5 or 6 years ago.

    1. Re:Too late in the game... by JPriest · · Score: 1

      "there is no uploading/downloading of music, Felser explained, citing the legal issues associated with sharing of copyrighted works."

      --
      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    2. Re:Too late in the game... by One+Louder · · Score: 1

      I think its biggest weakness is that, unlike other P2P applications, this one can't take advantage of network effects to gain ubiquity due to the small, private, nature of the networks.

    3. Re:Too late in the game... by garcia · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      "there is no uploading/downloading of music, Felser explained, citing the legal issues associated with sharing of copyrighted works."

      Let's see the entire quote as that isn't fully correct:

      Currently in beta, Grouper limits private networks to 30 members. While file sharing is a key feature in the application, there is no uploading/downloading of music, Felser explained, citing the legal issues associated with sharing of copyrighted works.

      By limiting music sharing to streams in small groups, Felser said Grouper simply enables "private performances," which is protected by U.S. Copyright Law.

      "We're not a public file-sharing network. What we offer is a way to connect to hard drives within a group in a safe, encrypted environment," he said.

      So they do or they don't? Which is it?

    4. Re:Too late in the game... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Running Grouper through university networks can save Internet bandwidth costs because file transfers are done between machines on the local network (unlike other P2P networks).

      Like university students are not already doing this with Private Gnutella networks, and DC++ etc?

    5. Re:Too late in the game... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      That does sound contradictory.

      I also doubt that keeping performances "private" would hold up as a legitimate defense.

    6. Re:Too late in the game... by Leto-II · · Score: 1

      Most Universities probably don't want ANY filesharing. A lot of them have limited bandwith for P2P applications as it is. Do you think that really want it going on at all? Probably not. Too many problems w/the RIAA and the MPAA.

      Most universities couldn't give a f*ck as long as it doesn't take up too much bandwidth. And with something like this most of your peers will probably be other students on the same campus, bringing down the BW cost to the uni since the traffic would mostly be internal.

      --
      Do not anger the worm.
    7. Re:Too late in the game... by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 1

      I disagree, this is exactly the kind of thing my friends and I were looking for. P2P networks are a pain in the ass because you have to share everything with everyone... and let's be honest, 90% of the file listings for music out there these days seem like fake crap the RIAA is listing. I want to share music, movies, pictures, and maybe even software with friends and family... and chat while we're at it over an encrypted network. But alas, this won't work. It only supports Windows XP and 2000.. they need a Linux and MacOS X version damnit. :-/

    8. Re:Too late in the game... by somethinghollow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It makes perfect sense. You STREAM it, not download it. You can't copy it to your computer and save it there from within the program. You can merely stream the audio, which is not the same as saving it to your hdd.

      As far as the "private" performance, it should hold up in that only your invited/allowed "friends" (at this point up to 30) can listen to any given song at any given time. It's not offered to the general public. This would be like me having some friends over and playing music from my personal MP3 library. It's not a public performance because only my friends are listening to it, and they are only there because I invited them to the private gathering.

      But the tricksy lawyerses will probably take away the precious anyway they like because they hates the precious and would rather see us dead than have it.

    9. Re:Too late in the game... by Nogami_Saeko · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just check their forums.

      It will NOT share files with MP3 or WMA extensions. Who knows that filetypes they'll decide to block next.

      If they get rid of those restrictions (and the 30 person maximum) I'll bite. Until then, it's simple an interesting bit of software that I'll pass on.

      N.

      --
      "Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
    10. Re:Too late in the game... by ForestGrump · · Score: 1

      Actually, the university I go to counts internal traffic against your bandwidth quota.

      Thank god CD-RW and DVD-RW are easily available these days. And wireless lan helps alot with your neighbors too.

      --
      Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
    11. Re:Too late in the game... by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      "Our technology turns the computer into a private server that allows you to share files securely in a small, invite-only group,"

      So, it's an FTP server?

      That's been done...

    12. Re:Too late in the game... by forkazoo · · Score: 1
      The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.


      And, just for the record, Gnutella has always supported semi-private networks. That was part of the problem early on. It doesn't have password authentication, but you aren't obliged to sign onto the main network.

    13. Re:Too late in the game... by Nogami_Saeko · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just another thought (as this is similar to an application that I brainstormed with a friend a couple years back):

      It would be great to have a "trickle-sync" directory designation, so you could automatically share amongst group members. It would work like this:

      One person would drop files into a directory designated as "trickle-sync", and it would be slowly passed-along to everyone else in the group automatically without any prompting (assuming they enabled that feature on their machines). Rather than using full available bandwidth, it might be set to, say, a 5kb/sec maximum or something (or dynamically adjust the bandwidth depending on what else is happening on the network at the time).

      The idea being that if you found a new song, program, video file etc. that you think other people in your group might be interested in, you'd just drop it in that folder and eventually everyone else would get it automatically and save them the trouble of having to go look for it and download it.

      The trickle-sync folder could have a maximum size limit on it, so if new files arrived and the folder was over-size, it would delete the oldest files first to make room for the new stuff.

      N.

      --
      "Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
    14. Re:Too late in the game... by spongman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, we're definitely considering adding more push-like capabilities in the future to preemptively distribute content around the network.

    15. Re:Too late in the game... by Larsiny · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

      Hate to break it to you but there's already private networks dealing in the latest files/video/audio that are secure mainly because they are private. You never hear about them but I'm sure they can have all the software they want. All it takes is one guy, let's call him a "courier" for a purely hypothetical example, to tap into different groups and bring it to share with his network of buddies. And nicely pass it on to another group if possible, in an fair trade sort of exchange.

      And regarding speed, I would know that the cd sized home movie that I'm downloading from a friend isn't going to be coming off of a dial up user. If a buddy of mine shares a torrent of a song he wrote and we're both on T3 connections, why should I have to suffer accessing packets from a dial up user who has it too?

      Most Universities probably don't want ANY filesharing. A lot of them have limited bandwith for P2P applications as it is. Do you think that really want it going on at all? Probably not. Too many problems w/the RIAA and the MPAA.

      Actually no, most private universities don't give a rat's ass about sharing files but more concerned about total bandwidth with external connections as well as external transfers that could come back to hurt them as an institution. As long as the actions of a student doesn't come back to harm or get the institution in trouble, they don't really care.

      However, to outsiders (RIAA/MPAA) encryption means hiding data that doesn't belong to you. They will counter any argument with that statement.

      There wouldn't be an argument to begin with because they have no idea what's going on within that network unless they've gained access illegally. How are they going to request a court order? "Your honor, we believe that there's illegal information swapping going on because they have 1337 usernames and they move a lot of information"

      Also, how would they know what the information is if it's encrypted? Maybe I like sending uncompressed home footage of my toddler to my grandparents.

      P2P is fine with the free alternatives. I'm sorry but I just don't think this program is going anywhere. Maybe if it was created 5 or 6 years ago.

      Free alternatives open you up to people you don't know and software you might not realize is really just spyware. If I had a group of buddies that I know and trust, more information can be passed back and forth in complete safety. And the intent of this program is to allow secure transfer of personal data to friends and back.

      The actual greatest benefit from this program IMO is the knowledge of the connections of the circle of people I'm sharing with. Instead of having to suffer a download at 4.5Kb/sec, I am assured I can get it at dsl/cable/t1/t3/oc1/etc speeds.

    16. Re:Too late in the game... by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 1

      I don't want you forcing your crappy taste in music onto my hard drive.

      What's to keep somebody from putting "n3kk3dfoto.jpg.exe" in the push folder?

      --
      Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
    17. Re:Too late in the game... by The+Patient · · Score: 1
      You mean like Foldershare?

      Yes, yes, they charge for features like filediff support, but the free version still works pretty well.

    18. Re:Too late in the game... by HeLLFiRe1151 · · Score: 1

      .Rar .zip .uha for a start

      --
      I've got 101 mod points and you can't have them!
    19. Re:Too late in the game... by spongman · · Score: 1

      grouper doesn't allow you to download copies of audio files from your friends' machines, but it does allow you to build playlists of, and listen to music that they're sharing. we re-encode the audio on the fly on the source machine to a bitrate & format more conducive to streaming.

    20. Re:Too late in the game... by edbarrett · · Score: 1

      "Our technology turns the computer into a private server that allows you to share files securely in a small, invite-only group," Felser said in an interview with eWEEK.com. Each group becomes an encrypted peer-to-peer network that allows one-click access to browse and download files.

      The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

      Not that I RTFA, but you never used hotline, did you? "Click this banner, then the username is the fifth word of the second paragraph and the password is the fourth word of the third paragraph on the welcome page" Or, for more modern pirates, suprnova.

    21. Re:Too late in the game... by moonbender · · Score: 1

      How do you think I get my homework/sample essays/lecture notes from professors? File sharing.

      File sharing as in P2P file sharing? (I guess a pedant might remark that HTTP is just another way of sharing files.) If so, that's odd. I'm certain the vast majority of universities distribute content via HTTP and email. Or paper, obviously - that's probably the number one distribution mechanism for the things you mention at the moment.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    22. Re:Too late in the game... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't get e-books on Kazaa for gods sake. Get them from the alt.binaries... ebooks newsgroups. You can download more from all of those than you can read in a lifetime and it's all correctly labeled!

    23. Re:Too late in the game... by spanommers · · Score: 1

      A little different, but similar: Konspire

    24. Re:Too late in the game... by spongman · · Score: 1
      That's been done...
      Sure, but you could say the same thing about the Web. Just because technology exists it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best, easiest way to do what it does.

      Take your example:

      • How many people do you know that can set up an FTP server, administer accounts, handle invitations, etc... securely, automatically, through a firewall?
      • How many people do you know that can't?
      • Can you perform searches on an FTP server?
      • Can you stream audio files from an FTP server reliably?
      • Can you get dynamically-generated thumbnails for directories of images from an FTP server?
      • What kind on IM features (albeit person-to-person, or group-based) does an FTP server support?
      • Can you get extended metadata for files on an FTP server (artist, title, etc...)?
      • Can you see what directories other people are browsing, or what files they're downloading?
      You (being a slashdot reader) could probably find a set of packages that'll do most of this stuff.

      On the other hand I could write a program that allows you (and your non-techie friends) to do all of these things with a simple, easy to use UI.

      Oh, wait...

    25. Re:Too late in the game... by Anonymous+Writer · · Score: 1

      It will NOT share files with MP3 or WMA extensions. Who knows that filetypes they'll decide to block next.

      That's stupid. One thing that I have found my computer extrememly useful for is voice dictation. I'm currently using the Olympus proprietary ".dss" format, but I'm considering switching to an iPod with a voice recorder, because you're not stuck with the proprietary codec. If you use a really low bitrate, you can store an incredible amount of audio on your hard drive. Not being able to share audio files would eliminate the ability to share pre-recorded voice messages with one another.

      And what about video? They would undoubtedly want to block that as well. If this is supposed to work as a groupware application, they should be aware that some people would want to use it to coordinate audio and video editing, especially through broadband.

    26. Re:Too late in the game... by cHiphead · · Score: 1

      sorry you geniuses, but WASTE has been around for a while now and more than serves such purpose. This sounds like a restricted hybrid between WASTE and VideoLAN...

      DING! next 'marketable product service' please.

      stop wasting our f-cking time.

      Cheers.

      --

      This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    27. Re:Too late in the game... by Xabraxas · · Score: 1

      Konspire was a cool concept at the time when I tried it out a few years ago but no one ever used it then so it was pretty useless. It worked fine but there was never anyone on it. I was hoping that there were more people on it now but I never did get the Linux client to work and I don't have any machines with Windows on them any more.

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
    28. Re:Too late in the game... by louden+obscure · · Score: 1

      You can merely stream the audio, which is not the same as saving it to your hdd.

      maybe it's semantically different. in reality it makes little difference to the 0s and 1s where they end up; through the DAC of your soundcard or saved to a file.
      --
      Serenity now, insanity later.
    29. Re:Too late in the game... by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      I may be mistaken, but I get the impression you think if your recieving part of a file from someone on a slower connection that somehow blocks out ny connections from someone faster. While some p2p apps might limit the number of clients your connected to at once, I dought any limit you to just one or two, and some are configurable.
      Dialup sources don't reduce YOUR bandwith any at all, each connection has a tiny overhead, but it's not often time dependant but rather amount of data dependant. So dialup sources shouldn't have any significant effect on your download speed unless there are a LOT of them.
      In fact that is one of the primary design strenghts of P2P systems is that they are MEANT to take a whole lot of slow sources and make them effectively one big fat source that can't be killed or ddosed etc. So worrying about dialup users slowing you down makes little sense.
      And besides dialup is going to be most of the regular people on the net, it's kinda stupid to cut off most of your potential sources, and somtimes the only source.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    30. Re:Too late in the game... by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      Gak sorry for replying to myself, but I choped a sentance up thier before the idea was complete and totaly scrambled the meaning.
      I said"So dialup sources shouldn't have any significant effect on your download speed unless there are a LOT of them." wich is completely screwed up.
      What I meant is the that overhead from dialup sources shouldn't effect download speeds much unless there are a LOT of them, but then you'll be getting the data itself faster (wich is one of the intended strengths of p2p) and would have the same overhead with the same number of fast sources (in any sane p2p app) and wouldn't get anymore file data than your max d/l speed in any case.

      Again sorry for the screwup.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    31. Re:Too late in the game... by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1
      I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

      Actually, it cuts it quite well. I belong to 2 separate and distinct groups, one music only, one everything, both about 20 members strong. Granted, you can't find everything (although the second group is practically 0-day), but it's rare now that I have to fire up Bearshare to get something I really want.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    32. Re:Too late in the game... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, time for them to rip-off some other functions of WASTE.

    33. Re:Too late in the game... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Will Justin Frankel sue you for ripping-off his source code?

    34. Re:Too late in the game... by Saeger · · Score: 1
      Uh, except with Suprnova there's none of that old ratio or banner-clicking bullshit, and the password-required trackers are clearly marked with a big gold icon so you can avoid those annoying "members only" clubs.

      If you bother to sign up at one of those registration-required tracker sites, what you'll usually find is some kid begging for paypal donations for his l33t server with fewer torrents than available publicly.

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    35. Re:Too late in the game... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, Why Not.... you have WASTE source code, just copy and paste.

    36. Re:Too late in the game... by legirons · · Score: 1

      "It would be great to have a "trickle-sync" directory designation, so you could automatically share amongst group members. It would work like this: One person would drop files into a directory designated as "trickle-sync", and it would be slowly passed-along to everyone else in the group automatically without any prompting (assuming they enabled that feature on their machines). Rather than using full available bandwidth, it might be set to, say, a 5kb/sec maximum or something (or dynamically adjust the bandwidth depending on what else is happening on the network at the time)."

      konspire.sourceforge.net/

      Create a channel simply by publishing its key, and send out an anonymous announcement of the channel with a description of what you plan to use it for.

      People receiving these annoucements sign-up for ones which sound interesting

      When a channel-owner publishes a file, it magically and anonymously arrives on the PC of everyone who's subscribed to that channel.

      Kind of like a TV or radio station, except you don't need millions of dollars to be the one speaking.

    37. Re:Too late in the game... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have an awesome collection of OGGs. Unfortunately, the legal MP3s i made with my band cannot be streamed via this service unless i rename them.

    38. Re:Too late in the game... by Tellalian · · Score: 1

      The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

      In general, you're probably right, but there may be cases where such an approach is preferrable. For instance, suppose you're a small company or group of developers who don't want invest in a server or private physical network, yet don't want to post their content for all the world to see on a traditional P2P network. A private P2P network might be a good alternative.

      However, to outsiders (RIAA/MPAA) encryption means hiding data that doesn't belong to you. They will counter any argument with that statement.

      And they'll be countered with a hearty round of laughter. I wonder what the ACLU would think about this idea to ban all privacy (which is what encryption is) because you *might* be using it to hide illegal activity.

    39. Re:Too late in the game... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most Universities probably don't want ANY filesharing. A lot of them have limited bandwith for P2P applications as it is. Do you think that really want it going on at all? Probably not. Too many problems w/the RIAA and the MPAA.

      Most universities officially don't want any filesharing, but my experience is that with P2P programs like this or direct connect, the fact that all of the traffic happens on the school network (and doesn't use any outside bandwidth) makes them more likely to turn a blind eye towards it.

  2. The just announced the name: by Shut+the+fuck+up! · · Score: 5, Funny

    OMGWTFLOL.exe

    1. Re:The just announced the name: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you meant OMGWTFBBQ!!1

  3. yup, nullsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    as in waste

  4. Squeeze the Charmin. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Some former AOL staffers have come up with something interesting. Namely, a P2P/instant messaging/groupware tool called Grouper. "

    Damn! I read that as Groper. Reach out. Reach out, and grope someone today.

    1. Re:Squeeze the Charmin. by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

      That's a version of the software custom made for the California Governor's office.

  5. login sound by Post+It+Now · · Score: 5, Funny

    "You've got jail!"

    1. Re:login sound by CrackedButter · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Best post Evar!!! (Since I cannot remember the last "best" post) :)

      --
      Jonathanjk.com
    2. Re:login sound by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I got gun

  6. like clevercactus? by idonotexist · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not sure who was first, but clevercactus has had the same type of offering for awhile.

    --
    "There ought to be limits to freedom"
    1. Re:like clevercactus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and at over 17MB (vs. 1.2MB for Grouper and 3MB for KDrive), I'm sure there's no spyware at all.

    2. Re:like clevercactus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what about aimster?

      anyone remember the hot but most likely underage aimee?

  7. Groovy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The screenshots and described functionality look tremendously like the original free Groove software.

  8. New name, same product? by Raxxon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wouldn't this be a cleaned up and repackaged version of WASTE?

    1. Re:New name, same product? by JPriest · · Score: 1

      WASTE was created by the nullsoft folks. These AOLers were aquired in the sale of Spinner.com to AOL.

      --
      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    2. Re:New name, same product? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, it's a blatant rip-off of Justin Frankel's WASTE.
      http://waste.sf.net/

      Moreover, the Grouper CEO has the temerity claim to its his original idea:

      "The idea for Grouper was born out of personal frustration after Josh came back from Burning Man with loads of photos and video clips taken with his digital camera." http://www.grouper.com/about/presskit.htm

      This doesn't much surpise me as I have experience working with these Grouper people. I'd never work with them again.

    3. Re:New name, same product? by Raxxon · · Score: 1

      My understanding was the the NullSoft guys developed it but that it was in use in other areas of AOL giving pretty much anyone who wanted access to it, access... It seems to do a good number of things that WASTE did...

    4. Re:New name, same product? by spongman · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Yeah dude. Next time, try to deliver the pizza before it gets cold, OK?

    5. Re:New name, same product? by TheSpoom · · Score: 2, Informative

      The sad thing is that AOL canned WASTE (pun not intended) after only a few hours of Justin posting it, and removed the file from the server. Compare this article to the original Slashdot article on WASTE. Very similar.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    6. Re:New name, same product? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Delivering (sorry, marketing) free pizzas is easy when you've got the $320 mil, "dude". Besides the Mickey Mouse interface, it seems like decent execution of the idea. But Felser didn't "come up with it a year ago" tripping at Burning Man. A year ago it was called WASTE. And 4 years ago, it was called Groove - the same year this happened:
      Josh Felser, general manager for AOL's Spinner and Winamp projects, said at the time: "The Gnutella software was an unauthorised freelance project and the website that allowed access to the software has been taken down."

      LOL. Frankel's a whiner, but it looks like Felser takes the cake!
    7. Re:New name, same product? by spongman · · Score: 1
      well josh came up with the idea of creating a product that makes it easy for him, his family, his friends and people like them to share stuff. if you think waste and groove come anywhere near to doing this then you need to take a reality pill.

      gnutella was aken down for legal reasons plain and simple. the RIAA was frying napster and looking to fry anyone else doing similar things. you may not agree with the RIAA's practices, but you can't excuse a company for trying to avoid lawsuits.

  9. well by Sv-Manowar · · Score: 1

    "Some former AOL staffers have come up with something interesting."
    i guess the desire to leave AOL, and create something good go hand in hand

    --
    Business Voyeur
  10. Old news? by complexmath · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I posted about Group in response to the GAIM thread the the other day. That said, my only complaint about Grouper is the obvious one--music is only streamable, not downloadable (though I imagine renaming the extension and/or compressing the file would be an easy way around this). If the filesharing is truly private, why bother with such a restriction?

    1. Re:Old news? by Queer+Boy · · Score: 1
      If the filesharing is truly private, why bother with such a restriction?

      Because this eliminates any RIAA argument. It's just like radio now. I think it's a great happy medium, I just wish Apple hadn't taken this function out of iTunes (no internet sharing anymore).

      --
      Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
  11. 30 node limit....... by ARRRLovin · · Score: 1

    .......how fantastically mediocre! Next thing they'll be saying is that you need to pay for the software! D'oh!

    --
    -Randy
  12. I just want to say to Slashdotters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that you are all my friends.

    Now, just let me know where you are on Grouper so I can share files with you, my dear friends.

    1. Re:I just want to say to Slashdotters by crhylove · · Score: 1

      Thanks RIAA. My grouper ID is JESUS H CHRIST. See you online buddy!

      --
      I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
  13. KDrive by PktLoss · · Score: 4, Informative

    KDrive allows users to set up secure groups across the net, push files to the group, and selectivly share different files with different groups

    --
    paul reinheimer
    1. Re:KDrive by dspiral7 · · Score: 1

      looks like a glorified FTP program...

      --
      Whats your Favorite song or artist? YourFavMusi
    2. Re:KDrive by Xabraxas · · Score: 1

      WTF!? I thought this was KDrive. No wonder I was confused earlier in the thread. "What the hell does an X server have to do with Grouper?", I thought.

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
  14. Like unix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This application is like everyone setting up a web server and a streaming server on their systems (integrated with IM, of course). I always feel nostalgic when functions that I learned with in unix are integrated into the desktop. Remember how 'talk', 'ytalk' and 'finger' was touched up to form IM?

    1. Re:Like unix by nate+nice · · Score: 1

      You know, maybe I was just immature and a pervert but I always got a kick out of the finger program. I mean, c'mon. Sure, it's one way to see if your girlfriend is too drunk, but to describe it as a tool to see if someone's available is just a little too obvious. Maybe a name like touch....ok, that doesn't work either....how about.... ahh, finger it must be.

      --
      "If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer ..."
  15. similar to i2hub by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this is similar to i2hub, except they are super closed network and limits to 30 people, while i2hub is limited to college campuses. speeds on i2hub are extremely fast as well... movie in 15 minutes, a song in 3 seconds.. nothing new here except its from "former AOL staff". i2hub is still the shit.

  16. Private encrypted P2P? by MP3Chuck · · Score: 1

    Sounds like a more polished version of WASTE.

    --
    Who doesn't like free music?
  17. ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    grouper's interface is hideous. anyone got a better lan fileshare app?

    1. Re:ugh by togofspookware · · Score: 1

      Yup. It's called Apache:

      http://apache.org/

      --
      Duct tape, XML, democracy: Not doing the job? Use more.
  18. File sharing is the suxx0rz. by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 2, Funny
    This is a really bad idea. First of all, it will cause people to illegally share music, movies, software, and other valuable intellectual property. Because file sharing software makes the decisions, not its users.

    By leveraging innovative technologies, content providers streamline compelling enterprise solutions.

    The RIAA, MPAA, and Microsoft should get together to put a stop to this before it becomes a larger problem than it already is. That is, unless the FBI, CIA, the Justice Department, and the NSA figure out a way to keep track of which files are being shared, and then administer the death penalty without a trial.

  19. uglyman The hypocrite. by ocularDeathRay · · Score: 0

    GREAT. more software that lets me steal things so easily that I feel persecuted when I am prosecuted for it. I used to steal software a lot... then I started using linux. now I steal pr0n instead.

    --
    Obama is a twitter sock puppet
  20. Done before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    How is this different from WASTE?

  21. WASTE Redux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like WASTE with a differant name and interface.

  22. Re:BSDers bet on gorgeous Ceren by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Creepiest post of the year.

  23. we have that already by geg81 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    These "enterprise P2P" efforts seem to be attempting to recreate Windows File Sharing or NFS and call it "P2P". It's not clear whether that's a good idea. Those attempts have some things going for them: self-administration by users, no requirements for a central server, and distributed search. On the other hand, it is quite likely that enterprise administrators don't want some of those features. And they have some disadvantages, too: no auditing, no backup, no direct integration with end-user software (although, I suppose, you will see MS Office plugins).

    1. Re:we have that already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      These "enterprise P2P" efforts seem to be attempting to recreate Windows File Sharing or NFS and call it "P2P". It's not clear whether that's a good idea



      The YouServ system seems to be pretty popular inside IBM, which would suggest that these sorts of things do have at least some value.

  24. The reason they left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AOL is extremely unfriendly towards their employees developing P2P stuff. Remember Gnutella was first developed by Nullsoft, an AOL subsidiary? Remember that AOL tried to kill it but the genie was already out of the bottle? Remember WASTE was first developed by Nullsoft too? Remember it was only up for about a day before AOL shut that down as well?

    1. Re:The reason they left? by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 2, Funny

      AOL is extremely unfriendly towards their employees developing P2P stuff. Remember Gnutella was first developed by Nullsoft, an AOL subsidiary? Remember that AOL tried to kill it but the genie was already out of the bottle? Remember WASTE was first developed by Nullsoft too? Remember it was only up for about a day before AOL shut that down as well?

      No problem. We'll just pay a soccer mom to visit AOL headquarters and dance around on the table demanding P2P and warez, and we got it.

    2. Re:The reason they left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I've always thought that a great way to improve the Internet is to block out all the AOLers. Can we get them onto their own kiddie pool so they don't bug the rest of us anymore? Yeah yeah, so they DO have their own kiddie pool...but we need to make sure they don't have the capabilities to leave.

      And I dunno, soccer moms dancing on tables isn't exactly the wholesome content AOL would've liked.

    3. Re:The reason they left? by n0tt00elite · · Score: 0

      I hate && despise && loathe that commercial!!one!! If we could get rid of Micro$oft and AOL users, the computing world would be so much purer. PURGE COMPUTER WORLD!!!! DESTROY AOL USERS; DESTROY M$!!!1!ONE!!1!!ONE!!!

      --
      "Software is like sex, it's better when it's free." Linus Torvalds
    4. Re:The reason they left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      re: soccer mom dancing on table

      link please

  25. Uh... this is news? by DogDaySunrise · · Score: 1, Offtopic
    Sorry bud, yer a bit late - The Register had a story on this over two months ago http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/13/grouper_p2 p_launc/.

    Hell, I was seeding a torrent for it on the release date, 23rd September - still running now lol...

    1. Re:Uh... this is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      geeze, it's not like slashdot's a news site, it's Cmdr Taco's Personal Blog, and you shouldn't expect it to be upto date, it's just cool and intresting things....

      STOP TREATING SLASHDOT LIKE A NEWS SITE. IT'S NOT ONE!

    2. Re:Uh... this is news? by DogDaySunrise · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, I was misled by the site slogan at the top left-hand side of the page. Cheerfully withdrawn :o)

  26. People/media stations by unsung · · Score: 1

    I tend to disagree with those who say that private networks won't be successful in distributing media. Take for instance Friendster, you'll eventually run into people who wish to form nodes by linking with anyone who requests (not just long-time friends). These people will eventually function as a media stations and be able to deliver focused media to their network.

  27. Just tried it....totally sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are so many apps out there like it. Besides it's proprietary. Not cross platform. Interface is cheesy. What a waste of five minutes for the install.

  28. True, but what about families? by complexmath · · Score: 1

    My principal interest in Grouper is to have an easy way to share data with friends and family members. And while I could set up an NFS share or FTP server to do this, it's much easier to suggest Grouper to the less technically inclined. Personally, I think Grouper is a very primising applicaton, though the restriction on music sharing seems pointless.

  29. Private network? Invite only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And how does this differ from AOL itself? The "invites" are probably going to be CDs mailed to every known and unknown address on the planet.

  30. Kinda like Aimster by siliconjunkie · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The whole concept sounds a lot like Aimster. I never used Aimster (because i havent used the AIM application since Trillian became available), but as I remember it, it was an application that "piggybacked" on AIM and allowed you to have filesharing circle with anyone on your buddy list. This "Grouper" thing just seems to run with that idea to me. Aimster (a href="http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/09/ 0049220&tid=141">ran into legal trouble and became Madster.

  31. Too late in the game...Pacman Fever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Most universities couldn't give a f*ck as long as it doesn't take up too much bandwidth. "

    Unfortunately they do. Sorry Charlie.

  32. Kinda like Aimster (Oops!) by siliconjunkie · · Score: 1

    Oops...

    The whole concept sounds a lot like Aimster. I never used Aimster (because i havent used the AIM application since Trillian became available), but as I remember it, it was an application that "piggybacked" on AIM and allowed you to have filesharing circle with anyone on your buddy list. This "Grouper" thing just seems to run with that idea to me. Aimster ran into legal trouble and became Madster.

  33. Never too late to be legal and change bad laws. by twitter · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it. ... Maybe if it was created 5 or 6 years ago.

    Ah, but sharing through a regular p2p or http server is essentially a republication and a direct copyright violation as copyright laws are written. Sharing files with your friends may not be and should not be any more than sharing a book or tape is. Five or six coppies does not make a republication.

    The copyright warriors may claim otherwise, but they are clearly in the wrong and will be seen as the extremists that they are on this one. The current wave of lawsuits are that strip 12 year olds and grandparents out of their life savings are bad, but the asswipes can say, "they made tens of thousands thousands of coppies and cost us lots of money." Imagine how that would sound if it were, "he gave his mom a copy of his favorite song and derived us of income! We demand compensation!" The jerks already have egg on their face for placing huge burdens on people who did not know better, have nothing or did not even know what was going on in their house. This, we can hope, will finally kill them off and let the rest of us do what we want to do, share things we enjoy with our friends and family.

    However, to outsiders (RIAA/MPAA) encryption means hiding data that doesn't belong to you. They will counter any argument with that statement.

    Fuck them. I already share things with myself and friends via Openssh. What I have password protected on my machines is none of their business. Those things I created and own are shared by a http server on the same machine and anyone, including the RIAA is welcome to it.

    I'm sorry but I just don't think this program is going anywhere. Maybe if it was created 5 or 6 years ago.

    Ha! My windoze using peers would love to do the things I do with Konqueror. You know, drag and drop encrypted file transfer so that I can get at, use and edit my stuff from anywhere in the world. This is a step in that direction for those too timid to leave winblows. Such thoughts populate the reviews the Grouper people are displaying from such mainstream sources as PCMagazine and the Wall Street Journal. I'd rather these people stepped up to free software, but this kind of program is going to take off big time.

    When that happens, it will change the way people think of publication in general. That will spell the end for the copyright warriors.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:Never too late to be legal and change bad laws. by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 0

      You are wrong. Sharing files with your friends is not at all like sharing books, because the file is copied. Copyright says nothing about book sharing because it doesn't involve copying, but file "sharing" is actually file copying and as such is governed by copyright. Whether or not it SHOULD be is of course a different matter, but saying it "may not be" is just wishful thinking.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
  34. The future of P2P.... by jemenake · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When the RIAA started suing P2P users, I predicted that the future of P2P was going to be some encapsulation-type system, where I could share with people *I* trusted.... and they'd share with people *they* trusted, etc. So, you'd get this "six degrees of separation" deal going on.

    The principle would end up working kind of like how terrorist cells work, such that the RIAA managing to bust one overly-trusting user wouldn't immediately jeopardize the rest of the users on the network.

    It seems like that's kinda where we're headed with a lot of the new P2P apps coming out: Grouper, WASTE, etc. Now, we just need a system where we can actually *get* files from people we don't immediately trust by having the peers that we *do* trust act as relay stations or something. Granted, it increases traffic, but it cuts the risk *way* down.... and I don't really mind having to leave my P2P app running all night provided I can do it with impunity.

    1. Re:The future of P2P.... by jwcorder · · Score: 1
      "Now, we just need a system where we can actually *get* files from people we don't immediately trust by having the peers that we *do* trust act as relay stations or something."

      It's called newsgroups or IRC. Both relatively easy to use (once you learn to tell the difference between the "good" stuff and the crap) and not targeted by the RIAA or MPAA. At least not yet.

      --
      http://jayceecorder.blogspot.com
    2. Re:The future of P2P.... by Burning1 · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry... Did you really intend to liken P2P filesharing and Terrorism?

  35. Awesome! by georgep77 · · Score: 1

    Now that something somewhere with this functionality will finally get wide exposure (slashdot is a great start) we can expect an OSS software package based on this to appear within a few months. Of course I'd prefer if GAIM was expanded to include this functionality.

    Cheers,
    _GP_

  36. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  37. Innovative? by nate+nice · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm sure they want (or have) patent's on this. So I gues Hotline, Carracho, KDX and all the other programs like this don't count. I don't see why this will make much money as Hotline tried to go commercial and it flopped. I mean, you can't really sell pirating software to pirates, can you?

    Not that this doesn't have legit uses, but I hope these dudes are better marketers than they are innovators.

    --
    "If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer ..."
    1. Re:Innovative? by rainman_bc · · Score: 1

      Don't forget about DirectConnect too... Sort of falls under that trusted network of users program too...

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    2. Re:Innovative? by nate+nice · · Score: 1

      Yeah, there's a boatload of them which is why I'm not impressed. But, innovation is not the key to a profitable company. There are glaring example of this which are too obvious to list.

      --
      "If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer ..."
  38. Groupware? by Conception · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was really excited by this at first. The idea of putting together IM and a non-outlook groupware solution seemed like a cool idea. Mix ical and IM with p2p without the ICQ bloat? Could be cool. Sadly... grouper is not this. It's waste with a pretty interface with a hint of the possibility of big brother watching me. :( Oh well.

  39. Open question for Justin Frankel.... by GeneralEmergency · · Score: 4, Insightful


    Justin...

    Just what is it about working for AOL that makes people want to design and distribute software that ' sticks it to the MAN '?

    Is it the bad coffee, doyathink?

    --
    "A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
    GeneralEmergency
    1. Re:Open question for Justin Frankel.... by Saeger · · Score: 1
      For some reason your comment was moderated insightful instead of funny.

      Either the mods are crack-smoking, stock-owning sympathizers of "The Man" and "The System", or, the mods are... just on crack. :)

      (Anyway, don't assume that everyone who's over 30 and working for some soulless corporation has been assimilated into the boring status quo. Rocking the boat is great fun (especially if you can afford to, like Justin can))

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    2. Re:Open question for Justin Frankel.... by OneDeeTenTee · · Score: 1

      Is it the bad coffee, doyathink?

      Perhaps they should try running that through a Brita filter.

      --
      Stop the world; I need to get off.
  40. Konqueror + Openssh. by twitter · · Score: 1
    KDrive allows users to set up secure groups across the net, push files to the group, and selectivly share different files with different groups

    Why bother renting someone else's "virtual" hard drive when you can own one? Sure, it might be nice to have someone help, but it's really easy to set this up for yourself.

    Every modern linux distribution has this ability. For less than $200, anyone can hang 200 GB of content off a cable modem connected computer and share whatever they want with their friends and family by password protected, encrypted communications. With Konqueror, it's drag and drool simple. Most of the distros install that easily too, especially something simple like a utility cable box. What better use do you have for that old 233 MHz computer?

    Grouper looks like it's going to bring some of that functionality to Winblows. Good for them and I wish them luck.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  41. MOD PARENT UP! by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This sounds almost exactly like WASTE, and being made by a "former AOL employee" is too much of a coincidence. Either this is WASTE, or it was "inspired" by WASTE.

    But either way, it's closed source -- so what's the point? It's not as if it had a head start or anything; you might as well just use the Free version.

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  42. A Bloated WASTE by DaViking · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I use and really like the idea of WASTE, although i wish it had a nicer UI. This takes it to an extreme and over complicates the matter. Also, as far as secure goes, I have issues with having to register to use it. I'm going to stick to WASTE where I don't have to worry about any third parties.

    --
    (This sig intentionally left blank.)
    1. Re:A Bloated WASTE by AIX-Hood · · Score: 1

      I agree, but the biggest problem with waste is that it's so rarely updated. The last downloadable update was put out almost 6 months ago. The file browsing interface is very clunky and the instant messenger feature cuts off all messages over around 100-150 characters without warning you. I'd be all over grouper if like you said, they didn't require you to register with their service first.. Gee.. here's your totally private network that no one but you guys have access to, but oh, hey, we hold all the keys which we'd hand over to the government or RIAA if they asked for it. Ummm no.

    2. Re:A Bloated WASTE by -=Zak=- · · Score: 1

      Off topic question about WASTE - does it do swarming downloads among the members of the group? There have been several instances where I wanted to send a video or something to all of my friends and currently, I have to send them all a note to nab it off of my web server. It would be nice if I could distribute the upload duties a bit instead of having 3 or 4 people downloading the same file from me all at the same time...

      If WASTE could do that, I think I'd jump in with both feet 'cause from what I've read it can do everything else I would want.

  43. shoot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Shoot the Grouper...

  44. well thought out! by SkunkPussy · · Score: 3, Funny

    Felser said rich media advertising will be embedded into the free version, and e-commerce tie-ins with online music stores and photo printing services will also offer business opportunities.

    so no real business plan here then.

    1. e-commerce tie-ins with online music stores and photo printing services
    2. ???
    3. profit

    --
    SURELY NOT!!!!!
  45. like gaim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    this app needs m$ .NET runtimes. so i just cancelled the setup

    1. Re:like gaim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      does it really need .Net framework to run? oh man........

    2. Re:like gaim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing to see here, move along

  46. Prediction for next generation file sharing by sokk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When I got on the internet for the first time I was on dial-up. It cost money to stay on the net. My first thought was to download as much as I could, so that I could use it when I needed it (Downloading whole sites for offline viewing pleasure. Eg. Code sample archives).

    I felt that way about programs too. I had to download them to my computer. I burned them out and archived them, just in case I would need them for a reinstall or for a friend.

    Nowadays I seldom keep the installation program of applications. Why? Because I know they're out there. I can get them at a moments notice. How come? I've got a broadband connection now.

    This is how I feel the next generation file sharing will become. Currently everyone is downloading everything. To have it handy. To use it. It doesn't need to be like that. I don't yet know how the technical solutions will be (if they ever will).

    Imagine: A world wide archive of music at your fingertips. You don't have (much) of it at your hard drive, because it's accessible through the net. You have your favorite music "bookmarked" to make your collection. Music playback is instantly - because of the evolution of the speed of the net, and the evolution of the file sharing technology.

    You won't have to think about "the files" as files. You think of them as entities. Always accessible.

    You'll (as mentioned) probably have to keep a part of the world wide collection at your hard drive. (If it can't be stored at the net, always flowing).

    Well, some of my thoughts. :). I know it's pretty far out, but it would've been neat. Any thougts?

    1. Re:Prediction for next generation file sharing by rbenech · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I agree who-heartedly that "in the future" we'll all be contributing and consuming little bits of "the net". Every site we visit, every message we read, every song we hear, every video clip, every program really, will be held in the "ether" as it is being trasmitted from someone who has it to someone who wants it. All you have to do is "tune" to that channel of bits and you'll be simultaniously helping others get access to it AND getting it for yourself. This assumes that "ALL" devices will have some memory and can participate in the grid of flowing bits we now call the Internet.

      --
      Perspective is to Science what Interpretation is to Religion. Obama + Paul FTW
    2. Re:Prediction for next generation file sharing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      > Imagine: A world wide archive of music at your fingertips. You don't have (much) of it at your hard drive, because it's accessible through the net. You have your favorite music "bookmarked" to make your collection. Music playback is instantly - because of the evolution of the speed of the net, and the evolution of the file sharing technology.

      I can imagine that world. And I can imagine the lawyers destroying that world because it threatens their clients' business model.

      I'd like to live in that world, but I'm stuck in this one. So if it's something I might want to keep, I download. Hard drives are cheap and backups can be stored offsite.

      Once the upstream end is (DMCA'd, goes bankrupt, bought out by a competitor, has a bad marketing day and decides to nuke all drivers for earlier products) gone, the data's gone with it.

      "What good is a fat pipe, Mr. Anderson, if no data flows through it?"

    3. Re:Prediction for next generation file sharing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're "fucking crazy". Just "FYI".

    4. Re:Prediction for next generation file sharing by AndresFerraro · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You are absolutely right-on in your vision.

      It's not what you have, but the knowledge of how to get it - coupled with the technology to access it seamlessly.

      Yesterday it was a Ramdisk, now its a hard-drive, tomorrow you'll use a SAN at home, in six years your SAN will be a Wide-Area-SAN.

      You'll share the pointers to the files, not the data itself, that makes as much sense as zipping up a website and e-mailing it instead of sending the URL.

      As far as music is concerned, the technology is not just there... It's way past the point where your dream is real, very real. But what is holding your dream back is not technology, its the assumption by lobbyist that we're going to eat their pie, we're going to eat it the way they want it, and anyone who doesn't want pie must be a pirate that has to be exterminated.

      --
      -Andres.
  47. What's this? by melted · · Score: 1, Troll

    >> By leveraging innovative technologies,
    >> content providers streamline compelling
    >> enterprise solutions.

    Sheeeeit, that's a good one. My bullshitometer EXPLODED.

  48. Qnext by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is anyone so impressed with Grouper??? Take a look at Qnext: http://www.qnext.com/

  49. iTunes on crack. by Kujila · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A lot of you seemed turned off immediately when the acronym "AOL" appeared, but did you even bother to try out the program yet? I've been using it for a week or so now, and I'm really impressed with it's music-streaming capabilities. It's like iTunes' network sharing abilities on crack.

    If any of the rest of you are interested in joining my new grouper group, drop me a line (check my profile)

  50. The future of P2P....Terrorism. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well you guys are "blowing up" their business model, and leaving "dead careers" behind. "Capturing" their product, and threatening to "distribute" if you don't get what you want.

    Kidding aside, look up "weakest link" (Not a quiz show.). Also there's more than one way to deal with a P2P network (Oh crap! I've said too much already. Guess I'll have to kill myself.)

  51. Re:BSDers bet on gorgeous Ceren by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Ceren... just another hot, chubby girl provin' that girls with some meat on 'em are the best fucks around.

    Here's to plump rumps!

  52. grouper don't like mozilla by upt1me · · Score: 2, Informative

    Problem with Email Verification

    Grouper was unable to automatically verify your email address. This could be caused by one of the following:

    * Your default browser is not Internet Explorer.
    * Internet Explorer is not configured to run signed, trusted ActiveX controls.

    1. Re:grouper don't like mozilla by spongman · · Score: 1
      Try reading the rest of the message! Here it is for those of you whose attention span didn't quite make it past the 1st three lines.
      To continue with the email verification process, either enable ActiveX controls in your browser and refresh this page, or:
      1. Download and install Grouper if you haven't already done so.
      2. Copy the 'Email Verification Code' from the email message.
      3. Run Grouper and click on your user name at the top left of the Grouper main window.
      4. Select 'Paste Invite Code...' command from the menu and follow the instructions on the window that appears.
    2. Re:grouper don't like mozilla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thanx for your info but your app sux and blows big time

    3. Re:grouper don't like mozilla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ANd....AnD.....not to mention it needs .NET framework from uncle Bill which in no way will be installed on my gentoo. Not even if they release a .NET version for linux.

  53. deja vu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a kuhl idea. but i would say that, since i started work a similar project last year. (I'll upload the 'jmates' codebase to sourceforge shortly)

    I used Java, RSS, Rendezvous and HTTP - to create a simple way for my non-tech friends to discover, catalogue, publish and search private digital assets and archives (blogz, photoz, tunez).

    A J2ME version is my preferred embodiment. my phone should be the ultimate P2P device. shame my phone OS sux. i wrote the desktop version first, until I learn J2ME better.

    ADVERT: anyone wanna help out?

  54. I don't think so. by twitter · · Score: 1
    Sharing files with your friends is not at all like sharing books, because the file is copied. Copyright says nothing about book sharing because it doesn't involve copying but file "sharing" is actually file copying and as such is governed by copyright.

    Your interpretation is recent and radical. Copying has always been tolerated and encouraged, even with books.

    Copyright laws were made to govern printing presses and nothing more. Their intent is clear even through the most superficial historical review. The framers were all educated with "lesson books", which were hand written coppies of other works made by children as school exercises. Indeed, the whole purpose of copyright was to encourage printing of books so that other people could do with them what they wanted. That included making coppies of favorite chapters, poems and other passages in their own books and letters. The makers of US copyright laws also through favorably of public libraries, who's sole purpose is to make books available to as many people as possible. It is only recently that publishers have turned against libraries and that is a most radical stance.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:I don't think so. by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1
      Your interpretation is recent and radical. Copying has always been tolerated and encouraged, even with books.

      That may be true, but unfortunately it is very clear written in the law and there is just about zero wiggle room:
      the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
      (1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    2. Re:I don't think so. by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 1
      "My interpretation" may be recent (if you consider over 100 years ago "recent"), however, it is clearly the letter of the law. US Code Title 19 Section 106: Exclusive rights in copyrighted works clearly states that the owner of a copyrighted work has the exclusive right to "reproduce the work in copies" (in addition to other exclusive rights such as public performance), meaning that nobody else can make copies without permission. I'd like to see you cite any actual law that "encourages" wholesale copying of copyrighted works for your friends and family. You may wish there was one, but there is not. You may think there should be one (and please understand that I am not arguing otherwise), but that does not make one appear.

      You once again miss the point when you talk about libraries. Libraries are a completely different issue since they do not make copies of works. They buy copies just like everyone else and merely lend their legal copies to borrowers.

      Copying single favorite passages is allowed under fair use (unless there is DRM protecting the work, in which case the DMCA now makes it illegal to circumvent the DRM making fair use illegal).

      Wholesale copying of copyrighted works without authorization is and has always been illegal since copyright was made law. What the framers intended is irrelevant to the enforcement of current law insofar as current law does not violate the constitution. (Though the framers' opinions are certainly relevant when considering the merits of current law, but that is a different issue).

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
  55. K:drive by emkman · · Score: 1

    The makers of the popular p2p network eDonkey have already been working on this for a while. Its called K:Drive. Check it out.

    --
    Moderation Totals: Flamebait=2, Troll=1, Redundant=1, Insightful=6, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=12. (not mine)
  56. Re:BSDers bet on gorgeous Ceren by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If those whores are 'hot chicks', I'm elvis priesly

  57. yeah great app by Deliri...uhmmm · · Score: 1

    Ok, first it demands your email address. They probably sell it to the RIAA so they can prosecute. When you click on the link in the email to confirm you get this dialog,

    "Problem with Email Verification

    Grouper was unable to automatically verify your email address. This could be caused by one of the following:

    * Your default browser is not Internet Explorer.
    * Internet Explorer is not configured to run signed, trusted ActiveX controls."

    So they also won't let you join if you don't use IE.

    The whole thing is probably some sort of scam.

    1. Re: yeah great app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1- IE
      2- Active X controls
      3- NET Framework
      4- WMP
      5- Samantha Fox's underwear
      6- Profit

  58. Grouper Rocks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did any of you guys actually look at Grouper before commenting? FAQ here. I've been using Grouper for 2 weeks now, sharing photos with my family overseas and listening to friends music with no problems for hours and hours. I've tried to use some other private p2p file sharing apps - some are mentioned here - but was never able to get any of them to work with my friends. I'm not a super techie wizard as most of you here but my friends are even less technical than myself. Also, PC Magazine just gave Grouper its editors choice award. Read this for an actual report of someone using it.

    1. Re:Grouper Rocks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Did any of you guys actually look at Grouper before commenting?

      No we can't! It won't install on linux or Mac. It's fully bloated with craps like NET Framework and WMP 9. Even my Aunt Jane can drop some .NET controls into a winform and call it a private P2P app. This is /. for G*D sake so don't give us "PC MAG Award" bullshit. This is not the way you develope an 'enterprise' P2P app. You have to be a blind dumb programmer to think you have to have NET in your app while there are countless alternatives out there to make it cross-platform.

      Definately a scam.

    2. Re:Grouper Rocks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      .....while there are countless alternatives out there to make it cross-platform

      Like C or C++

      But i guess they can't do more than copying msdn tutorials on how to make a p2p app with C# !

  59. Groove like Data P2P is the next thing by sytelus · · Score: 1

    Grouper is doing nothing new. You can download http://groove.net/ and start using automatically Magic folders automatically. Many people (usually on company instranet) finds this kind of folder sync extremly useful. But whats more important is data sync - which means your data like caleder info, bookmarks, notes etc gets sync. That has way too much potential. For example any app can use this automatically replicated sistributed database rather then relieng on central database server. Thats way beyond usual file sharing. Eventually everything is data and every storage system is somekind of database - so you can see where this is going. If you stretch your imagination little more further, this kind of data P2P effectively allows you to build your own distributed browsable website as "shared space". So your machine becomes a "server" distributing not just files and HTMLs but also event calenders, tiny notes, receipie book and so on. And the content on your machine (which has now becaome "server") is replicated across many mores to distribute the load. A current webserver as we undrstand is just the special case of access-to-everyone non-replicated content distributer. A machine participating in data P2P is far more general case and can be easily customized to emulate "web server". I've worked on heavy duty project implementing data P2P for two years and am pretyy convienced this is the next big thing on the horizon. Microsoft is already developing Windows P2P layer http://microsoft.com/p2p/ and would be available on Longhorn. Think outside the file P2P - there is whole new world! PS: I'll be bloging more about this topic on my blog http://www.shitalshah.com/blog/. Stay tuned.

  60. Have A Bit of Moral Proprieties! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Dear Grouper,

    When you rip off justin's WASTE, at least have decency to publish your program as open source.

    Regards,

    Average Geek (don't confuse me with Joe)

  61. Wait a minute. by serutan · · Score: 1

    Oh, you STREAM it. So things like StreamRipper will somehow become impossible?!
    Earth to Harry Potter...

    By limiting music sharing to streams in small groups, Felser said Grouper simply enables "private performances," which is protected by U.S. Copyright Law.

    "We're not a public file-sharing network. What we offer is a way to connect to hard drives within a group in a safe, encrypted environment."

    I will believe that this doubletalk will fly with the RIAA's and MPAA's lawyers when I see gas stations start giving away free cars.

  62. subject to 107-122 by twitter · · Score: 1
    wiggle room:

    Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.

    It's not enough, but it's a start. It certainly allows copy. The other exemptions, in theory, are rather liberal.

    The problem, according to Lessing, is that the enforcement is so heavy and expensive to defend against that what you say is effectively true. If a record company wants your life savings, you have little or no choice but to give it up. They will use the courts to take it and then some from you.

    This needs to change and it will. The copyright warriors are extortionists and supporting them is a kind of self defeating extremism. Attitudes will change and laws will follow attitudes.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:subject to 107-122 by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Hate to be pedantic but, private copying between friends does not satisfy any of the requirements spelled out for fair use (which is why I didn't bother to reference it):

      criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research

      Not that I agree with the law, just that I am all too well aware of the details and think that more people, especially those who are critical of it, need to be too.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  63. sell to pc magazine! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just look at the comments here, everyone seems to realized that this is a bloated rip-off of WASTE. So this means the only people who will buy this product are the ones who don't know WASTE. It's good for PC magazine readers, but geeks on slashdot? no...sorry...after all, you didn't get the time to at least release a linux version for them.
    A pure 0 overall rating is what this malware deserves.

  64. Crack? by RPoet · · Score: 1

    That's nothing. Imagine iTunes on internet pornography!

    --
    "Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
  65. BackWeb tried this by cutecub · · Score: 1
    BackWeb sold a background network data transfer technology that was respectful of BOTH your modem/DSL connection and your WAN connection (if you had a private WAN )

    It really worked. You could transfer hundreds of megabytes over slow, unreliable connections - so long as you didn't really mind how long it took to transfer. Hours... Days... Weeks...

    The protocol was highly optimized. Everything was encrypted. They used differential downloading technology (similar to that used in revision control systems) to only transfer the changes made between different versions of the same file.

    Nevertheless, they failed.

    They failed to make a simple, concise and compelling argument as to why a business should pay good money for this technology.

    And they failed to make the software easy to install, configure, deploy and maintain.

    So, today they have little to show for their efforts other than a handful of patents.

    Oddly enough, the US government and the MPAA may achive what BackWeb Marketing never could: providing a compelling argument for a secure, private file-sharing technology and the motivation to make it usable and deployable.

    BTW, your "trickle-sync" idea is similar in some respects to one of BackWeb's patented Technologies.

    Caveat scriptor.

  66. passages by twitter · · Score: 1
    Copying single favorite passages is allowed under fair use.

    So, isn't a song just a favorite passage of an album? Aren't I rendering a critical judgement by telling my mom, "this is excellent and typical of this band's work"? Don't I make a copy of any copyrighted work everytime I play it anyway?

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:passages by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 1
      No; yes but that's irrelevant; and "not for the purposes of copyright law". The amount of a work that can be considered "fair use" is explicitly not defined in the copyright law itself, but I believe precedent indicates it is smaller than a whole song in the vast majority of cases. Your argument is stupid; is an album simply a "favorite passage" of a complete works collection? Is a complete works collection just a "favorite passage" of a music genre? You have to draw the line somewhere, and the courts have drawn it *before* a whole song.

      If your sole purpose in file sharing was criticism of the works you shared, *and* everyone who downloaded the files had only that purpose as well, it would probably be legal. But don't try and tell me that's true, because it's obviously not. If your purpose is to add it to the collection on your iPod, it's not just criticism.

      As for making copies when you play, copyright is not intended to apply to incendental ephemeral copies made as a matter of course during the performance of a work and then discarded (such as a copy in RAM of a computer program or digital file). There's a lot of language in the copyright code to that effect, read it yourself.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
  67. CC doesn't have spyware (and runs in linux) by juancn · · Score: 1

    The size is because it needs a Java VM to run.
    But Clevercactus will run under any operating system that supports Java (including linux).

    I know the main developer (we went to college toghether), and he is an incredibly bright person and developer. I've been using CC since it was named spaces and it was in beta, it doesn't have spyware nor ads, and I refuse to believe that Diego (thats the main developer's name) will ever allow spyware in one of his programs.