What Do People in the IT Field Do for Side Jobs?

Flagg0204 asks: "Growing up in a primarily white collar household I wasn't exposed to 'side-jobs' until I met my girlfriend whose family was mostly blue collar. This got me to thinking. What do people in the IT field do for side jobs? Electricians, plumbers, HVAC, mechanic, these fields have many opportunities for a little extra cash on the side. What are some IT/IS side jobs that Slashdot readers do for extra money?"

Comments

Online/Remote works for me

[iclod]

it depends what kind of IT skills you have.

i am working for few online games like iclod and xmoo, they generate a bit of incomes and open up opportunities for other jobs.

the advantage is i don't need to be there physically to carry out works, but with that advantage, i also get the disadvantage of having thousand of similarly skilled people fighting for the same work.

i believe hardware-IT may have more opportunities. just post an ads on local newspaper to "Fix Your Computer Problems At Home" and there bound to be some elderly people who would rather get a local service from a local person at home.

what I do on my day job

[Anonymous Coward]

read slashdot.

Obvious answer...

[physicsphairy]

Punch the monkey!

Gameses!

[American AC in Paris]

I write games.

I learn fun new stuff, I get to take things at my own pace, I get fun email from other people, and I make enough to cover my car payment. Best of all, it feeds my megalomania.

Isn't it obvious

[Nom du Keyboard]

Isn't it obvious?

The moment they know you're in I.T. everyone in your family, and all your mother's friends, want you to fix their PCs.

Re:Isn't it obvious

[2MuchC0ffeeMan]

If we could only charge our grandmothers for every time we fixed their cord not being plugged in...

Re:Isn't it obvious

[Rob the Bold]

Well, I do fix PCs for friends and family, of course, but they have to feed me.

One evening, after fixing a computer, my friends were taking me to restaurant and we passed a homeless man with a "Will work for food" sign . . .

He shoulda been an underemployed software guy.

Re:Isn't it obvious

[delfstrom]

If we could only charge our grandmothers for every time we fixed their cord not being plugged in...

I didn't know grandmothers required electricity.

Re:Isn't it obvious

[nolife]

The moment they know you're in I.T. everyone in your family, and all your mother's friends, want you to fix their PCs

I had to give up my family and friend side job of building them computers. I now reference them to the small business section of www.dell.com (much better deals then the regular home section) and www.slickdeals.net for references to Dell SB deals. I've had enough of giving out lifetime free tech support. I traveled to my home town for Thanksgiving and spent about 10 hours of my long weekend fixing computers for friends and family. Sure, I will still help them with spyware and such but I am now the second phone call after Dell for those I've pointed in that direction and not the first. Sorry for the diehard white box builders but I had to get out. Not worth it to me.

Re:Isn't it obvious

[Mr. Bad Example]

> I didn't know grandmothers required electricity.

This is obviously an early example of nanatechnology.

Re:Isn't it obvious

[Mattcelt]

...Hello.sir. My.name.is.Steve. I.came.from.a.rough. area. I.used.to.be.addicted.to.crack.but.now.Im.off. and.trying.to.stay.clean... ...That.is.why.I.am.selling.magazine.subscriptions ...

Re:Isn't it obvious

[Rorschach1]

Some do.

I have absolutely no idea why I remember that...

Re:Isn't it obvious

[DrCode]

Easy solution: "Fix" their problems by wiping off Windows and installing Linux.

Then they'll either be happy with the stability, or so annoyed that they'll never bother you again.

I've never been able to make this work.

[Skyshadow]

In my experience, the nature of IT work tends to rule out being able to hold down a side job. The biggest obstacle is the fact that almost all IT work (or salaried work in general, really) tends to have at least one or two "crunch times" per year where you have to work weird hours.

Aside from that, I've noticed that the lion's share of part-time skilled labor still takes place between 9 and 5. There are plenty of 10-15 hour a week IT jobs, but very few where you're not on regular work hours. Even if you find one, any bit of success tends to pull the work towards business hours -- I briefly had a side gig as a trainer at night, but that quickly devolved into "can you do this during the day?" once companies started demanding our services.

As a consequence, you are forced to look for jobs which are both off-hours and feature very flexible schedules. This tends to translate into low skill and thus low paying. I don't mean to sound elitist here, but when you're making good money at a regular job I think you'll find that it's just not worth surrendering your free time for what you can bring in working at Starbucks. Remember: just because you're not paid when you're not at work doesn't mean that time is worthless.

If you're not making enough money, it might be a better use of your time to continue your education. Many universities cater to people who work a 9-5, and a lot of employers will help pay for you to go. The payoff isn't as immediate, but in many situations it's a far better plan overall.

Re:I've never been able to make this work.

[RealAlaskan]

... you are forced to look for jobs which are both off-hours and feature very flexible schedules.

Many universities cater to people who work a 9-5 ...

I hope that you see the obvious side job for the white collar worker: teach an evening course at the local community college. Of course, you'll be making less per hour than the janitor, but it is white collar.

Re:I've never been able to make this work.

[Coryoth]

n my experience, the nature of IT work tends to rule out being able to hold down a side job. The biggest obstacle is the fact that almost all IT work (or salaried work in general, really) tends to have at least one or two "crunch times" per year where you have to work weird hours.

I think this is spot on. A lot of IT jobs are salaried, and there is a huge difference between hourly wages and salary. Waged employment usually has a very fixed set of hours you are expected to work, and any work outside of that is overtime and more expensive for the employer, so it's discouraged. You are being paid for a fixed set of hours, so time outside that is your own, allowing for work on the side. On the other hand salaried work is essentially paying you to "get the job done" regardless of hours. They're paying you up front for as much of your time as it takes. Side jobs just don't come into it.

Having worked both waged (as a baker) and salaried (as a research mathematician) jobs, that's exactly how it generally worked for me. Both have their advantages, and side jobs is simply one of the advantages of waged employment.

Jedidiah.

Re:I've never been able to make this work.

[RealAlaskan]

The local college here (Alaska) pays almost $1000 per credit hour, so teaching a 4 credit hour math class would pay about $3800 for four hours of class time per week, plus a couple of hours of ``office hours'', plus prep time, plus grading three or four tests.

If you're teaching the same old class from the same old book, prep time should be less than class time, but if you're teaching from a new book, with a new syllabus, it can be more than the class time. Since you're adjunct faculty, you typically don't get to choose your syllabus or book, so the prep time will generally be 1 hour plus per class. Therefore, you get $3800 for about 15 hours per week times 16 weeks, or about $16 per hour.

I guess that's a little more cash than the janitors get, but you're not getting health benefits, and the janitors are.

The last thing I want to do when I go home is...

[pixel.jonah]

...turn on a computer.

Nothing

[Fraize]

Because the company I work for owns everything I think and do, according to my employment agreement. Nothing is considered "side-work."

Re:Nothing

[Lord Kano]

Because the company I work for owns everything I think and do, according to my employment agreement. Nothing is considered "side-work."

I've had similar contracts presented to me as conditions of employment. My first name begins with a "W", as does the word "Won't". On the signature line I write "Won't Agree", When people see that big cursive "W", they don't check to see what the rest of the line says.

I've never needed to take advantage of this practice, but I like having the option.

LK

Re:Nothing

[bjbest]

Somebody has likely already beat me to the punch with this idea: If your province or state allows 8 or 7 character personalized license plates, order a set that reads: "NO PLATE" . Watch the judge throw out all of your parking tickets!!!

Removing spyware

[BrentRJones]

and spam from people in the neighborhood.

IT Consulting

[ckulpa]

I have started my own IT consulting business for home PC users. I advertise locally in the neighbor hood and work nights and weekends.

Re:IT Consulting

[CheeseTroll]

FWIW, there have been a few discussions about similar topics in the past which I happened to bookmark because I was considering going that route myself last year. Grant Barrett wrote a couple of interesting articles about starting up your own tech consulting business. They have been re-published at http://www.koozie.org/2004/10/freelance_tech_.html .

I don't have the link to that Slashdot discussion, but it basically fell along the lines of "good advice!" and "no way it'll work."

A discussion about how to set up your consultancy was at http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/12/19/205022 0&mode=thread

That one's a little more informative.

There, now I feel somewhat justified for actually bookmarking that stuff. Good luck!

Gigalo

[samuel4242]

Women swoon when I talk to them about high-speed computing, VOIP, and the inherent tension between creator and consumer in the post-copyright world. It's a tough gig, but I'm happy if I can fall asleep knowing that I brought a smile to just one face.

You mean aside from...

[csoto]

Cybersquatting and phishing scams? Not much!

What do I do? POKER!

[Azzaron]

I find that the logical thought process needed for my IT job was exactly the kind of skill that a poker player needs as a base. I've been playing poker online for a year now and have done fairly well.

I find that it's a very fun, and profitable, hobby to have on the side. I'm playing enough now that I do consider it a side job... in fact, I make a better hourly wage than at my real job! The best part about it is, I can play whenever I have a spare hour or two... I don't have to schedule it in.

I've started getting all of my other friends in IT hooked on it as well :)

Re:What do I do? POKER!

[Skeezix]

It's actually difficult to learn to play decent poker online for free. There are plenty of sites that offer free games and tournaments, but the problem is that when there is no money being risked people don't play as well. You'll see people betting their whole stack on bad hands and 4 people (at a 10 person table) calling with mediocre hands. This really isn't good practice. Also it's hard to learn in a format where it's mostly beginners playing. The good players generally don't waste their time on the free games (with some exceptions of course), so you're mostly playing against other beginners which isn't all that great of training. :)

My advice is to play home games with other poker players, go to local tournaments. There may even be free ones available in your area at local bars. Once you feel like you have a decent grasp of the game, deposit $100 or so to your poker site of choice (usually you'll get a deposit bonus too) and start playing. My favourite format for the value is the single table no-limit tournaments. For $10 + $1 you have a decent shot at winning $50 and the tournaments only take an hour or so.

Re:What do I do? POKER!

[jtsoong]

Best places for a n00b to learn how to play?

My place, Wednesday's.. most people bring $200-$300 with them.

Its an *easy* game...

Prostitution

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're already doing contract work its not really a stretch from your existing skill set.

Blacksmith

[Kennric]

Throughout my years as a Unix admin, I have been a working blacksmith and woodworker in exotic woods. Recently I have branched into selling BDSM gear and sex toys, but that's beside the point.

I suspect many IT workers have a more artistic/creative outlet, whether it earns them any money or not. Its amazing how theraputic hammering hot metal is after a day dealing with computers and their users.

Re:Blacksmith

[kfg]

Its amazing how theraputic hammering hot metal is after a day dealing with computers and their users.

I just get hot and hammer on the users, but hey, whatever works for you.

KFG

Re:Blacksmith

[bladesjester]

It will take quite a while before you have the skill to start working on blades. You start out with simple things like hooks, tools, etc.

The simple things teach you hammer control, curves, and let you get used to learning how the metal responds. from there you increase the difficulty of the things that you make both in forms and materials.

Re:Blacksmith

[John Whitley]

Come now, Google on "anvils" brings up some basic hits, the first one of which (http://www.oldworldanvils.com/) looks fairly interesting. ;-) Dig around online for info on hunting up new/used anvils and other forge equipment.

But first things first: 1) dig up books on the subject. Check out Jim Hrisoulas' bladesmithing books. The first has a wealth of good basic material. That and later books also move quickly into Jim's specialty of advanced pattern welding techniques (See his website at http://atar.com/). 2) Nothing beats practical mentoring in a discipline such as smith-work. See if you can arrange to get classes/apprenticeship time with a smith in your area.

Enjoy!

Production

[claudius0425]

Well, I am not sure it counts as a side job, as I don't have a job in the first place, but when I am not toiling at either school or theatre, I do lighting work for a local production company (owned and operated by some old friends). Being production work, it is very gig-oriented, but by the same token it is well suited to side work, as there are no long term commitments involved.

So, yeah, sound and lighting design and operation for small/medium productions.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[Anonymous Coward]

...So make sure it's not turned off, then you're set!

I give back to the community

[syntap]

I spend my spare time writing open source software.

Reading Is Life

[sehlat]

I proofread books, both treeware and e-books for three different publishers, including doing scan-and-proof of old books for electronic republication. It's a great way to relax and put my computer skills to use without having to dive into the details of the bits-and-bytes after hours.

Re:Reading Is Life

[mellerbeck]

How do you get hired to proofread? I love to read and am pretty sure that I can catch a lot of errors. Do they send you a test manuscript to see how many errors you can detect? Thanks for indulging my curiosity.

Re:Reading Is Life

[SamHill]

How do you get hired to proofread? I love to read and am pretty sure that I can catch a lot of errors.

Ooh, careful.... I offered to proofread a book and actually got hired to edit it (and another book by the same author). I am now hypersensitive to errors in books and magazines, not to mention all the other printer matter you run into on a day to day basis.

ObTopic: I actually volunteered after the author asked on a TeX-related mailing list I was on. I have no idea how else you'd get hired -- maybe try your local college or university, where there's lots of writing going on.

Once it's on, it might be hard to shut off, and it's amazing how many mistakes there are out there... seeing them all can really suck.

Deliver Pizza / Wardrive

[slpalmer]

I deliver pizza as a side job. Only a couple nights per week, and a few hours per night. Get $$$, and find loads of WiFi hotspots.

IT side jobs

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a wh0re.

opps, no, wait a minute. Thats my IT job :|

side jobs

[burnunit0]

I preach for money. (many churches look to seminary students or former seminary student to do fill in preaching - they call it pulpit supply - when a pastor is on vacation) I've been tempted to put together a business card with that side job on it, "Serving God and mammon since 1997." Also, I work in a children's home. The overnight shift at the home allows me to work online during downtime. And then sometimes I do the freelance gig too. Who doesn't?

Gray Market

[Jaden42]

The gray market for services has grown consistently since I moved out to the bay area. Since the dot-com flame-out and the massive spending binges have ended, it's easier to hire someone for some quick "consulting" work than to employee people full time. A lot of people I know do on-the-side consulting for a few dollars here and there. Mostly IT stuff: companies small enough to not be able to pay someone full time but big enough to need someone to call on when they are in trouble. Lots of "checking the CEO's laptop" type jobs.

You have to be careful with this kind of work, though. As the name implies, the gray market is somewhere between the black market (totally illegal) and the normal market (regulated by industry and government). Some companies will 1099 you and report what they paid you, some companies won't. It is illegal, AFAIK, to receive money for work and not report it as income.

The money can be good, but if you are unlucky enough to be caught, the back taxes can be quite expensive.

Jeff

Private Investigator

[krbuck]

By day I work for IBM as an engineer. By night, I'm an investigator for my wife's private investigations company http://www.travisinvestigations.com/ . I get to help spy on cheating wives and husbands, catch people in insurance fraud and other such things. Probably the part I enjoy the most is when I get to make use of new electronic tools like covert GPS tracking devices etc... What I dislike are the long nights surveiling some cheating spouse or watching someone to see if they are poor parents in custody cases. Of course I also take care of the company computers (mostly Macs believe it or not).

Moonshine

[identity0]

Just do what schoool board members in Tennessee do... make moonshine. Remember to avoid the tax-man, though...

maintenance...

[Myolp]

of my girlfriend...

Damnit, shut up!

[raehl]

There are only so many suckers, don't go telling people who are likely to be good at poker where our suckers are! You're giving away our money man!

Erm, I mean, this is a horrible idea, all of the IT people I know lose lots and lots of money playing poker online.

SIDE JOB: Volunteering for Human Rights

[Anonymous Coward]

On the side, I volunteer my time to the human-rights movement. I do not earn cash, but I earn "good feelings" because I know that what I am doing is right. Recently, during a seminar about Taiwan, I fought for the Tibetans by demanding that the speaker (who is an employee of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Taiwan) explain why Taiwan continues to insist that Tibet is part of "One China".

The speaker was, for the first time in his pathetic life, speechless. No one had ever challenged him on the issue of Tibet.

Best way to make side money...

[Shant3030]

Is by not spending any...

A penny saved, is a penny earned!

Free Software

[GrouchoMarx]

That's how a lot of Free Software gets written. Go home, code up something useful, stick it on SourceForge, put it on your resume. You get a line on your resume, the world gets (hopefully) good code. Or help out on some existing project as a bug fixer, documentation person, fringe features (or mainline features if you're that good), etc.

Just because you don't get an immediate paycheck for it doesn't mean it's not worthwhile.

One word:

[Kissing Crimson]

embezzlement

(in case my boss is watching, I'm j/k)
(if he's not, contact me for more info.)

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[BoomerSooner]

Maybe you shouldn't be in the IT industry then. When you have a passion for something you tend to enjoy doing it when ever the opportunity is available. I cannot imagine an artist saying I cannot wait to quit painting or drawing...

Just my 2 cents.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[damiangerous]

Why is this insightful? I doubt the last thing a plumber wants to do when he gets home is unclog his sister's toilet, nor does the mechanic want to talk to his neighbor about that tapping sound his car started making. People generally take side jobs because they need the money. I don't really want to clean megs of spyware off a family members' computer, but if they want to slip me some cash I'll be right over.

Teaching

[eric76]

I've taught math and computer science part time at two different universities.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[Wansu]

I don't really want to clean megs of spyware off a family members' computer, but if they want to slip me some cash I'll be right over.

Trouble is, many family members do not want to pay you to clean megs of spyware off their computer and straighten out lord knows what goofy symptoms it has. They want you to do it for free.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[SCHecklerX]

Having a passion for something, and wanting to work on other people's broken shit is hardly the same thing. It's about moderation. All of the computer stuff I do at home is for myself, or for my cycling team (no charge). For example, setting up mailing lists for them, with mimedefang and spamassassin protection (helps them and myself, since it is my own server).

But like the poster above, the last thing I want to do when I get home from working with computers all day is to touch another computer, even if it is something really cool. Every now and then I'll get hit with inspiration, and that is when I add cool new features to the cycling team database, or to my mail server, or my home jukebox, or whatever. The nice thing about it is that I can do it on MY TERMS. I refuse to do 'tech support' type work, however; even for family members. I didn't STOP using windows years ago just so that I could fix OTHER PEOPLE's problems with that PITA inflexible pile of crap.

writing

[rsilverman]

One side job that doesn't have the problem of clashing with office hours is writing. Over the past few years, I have co-authored two O'Reilly books: "SSH, The Secure Shell (The Definitive Guide)" and "The Linux Security Cookbook." In addition to a substantial second income, I have had several follow-on writing and consulting opportunities (white papers, articles, etc.). Of course, there's the question of whether you want to spend even more time sitting in front of a computer in your off hours...

Cabling Cabling Cabling!

[o-hayo]

Small offices crop up all the time and they always need voice and data cabling with some simple network setups and whatnot.

On average I do 2 or 3 small cabling jobs a year and for a few days of work I can make some fast cash. For an office of 10 people you've got ~30 cable runs or more depending on how much expansion they want to pay for. These kinds of jobs can usually be cranked out in 3 days or so, depending on size, and they are always afterhours.

How much you want to be involved is up to you. I usually only like putting down all the passive equipment: racks, patch panels, 110 blocks, cable, jacks, feeders, etc. I'll test the permanent lines, hand them the results and walk away (or charge them more for a lifetime warranty :). Sometimes I'll install a small switch and make some drops "hot" so they are ready for move-in. I'd advise to stick with the passive installs, much less complex.

Also I should add a disclaimer. There are licenses needed for this kind of work (at least in my area), specifically a low voltage contractor's license. You can obtain one with some studying and 1 test. Furthermore, to get into telephone rooms to run feeder to office suites, most building owners/maintenance will want to see a million-dollar liability insurance or something similar - in case you yank somebody's T1 down there or something.

Aside from that I'd recommend it. All the info you need is online and if you didn't know much about your network's physical layer you'd also gain from the experiance.

Once or twice, I've thought about setting up a "Computer Guy" shop for the apartment complex I live in. I'd limit work to only those who lived at the complex (which means no traveling everywhere) and maybe I could get the complex to post a sign up on our billboard or mailboxes or something. It'd be a few extra bucks here and there and people would have someone close to load their printer with paper and turn their monitors on ;) Maybe later...

Room Service

[trickster5378]

While it's obvious the original poster seemed more interested in IT-only side jobs, I think non-IT side jobs are worth a mention. I worked in room service in Las Vegas for a few years after college to help pay off my IT schooling. I finished paying it off just this last September so I promptly gave my two weeks notice.

Though honestly I do really miss it at times. My job is computers, my hobby is computers, it was nice to make some cash and spend my time on something other than sitting in front of a computer.

And up until my most recent IT job, I was making far more money doing room service.

I'm an adult literacy tutor ...

[Draoi]

... I teach reading and writing to adults in my spare time. Of course, I don't get paid for it but some things can't be bought. It's my thanks for having had the chance at an education where my own parents didn't.

For money - well, I'm involved in web hosting. Building sites doesn't pay any more - not for me anyway - so I just do the hosting side. The money isn't great, but it's fun.

I also buy and sell stuff at garage sales. Hey, don't laugh! There's money to be made there if you know what you're doing ...

Rock Star

[saddino]

Or more accurately, guitar player in a local band selling CDs on the web and online stores like iTunes. And of course not for money, but certainly for the potential of "making it" (and thus making money). But given how long we've been at it such a reality is looking increasingly unrealistic. Though we did make some decent $ a couple of years ago when we were touring.

Like most indie bands of our ilk and time period we just wanted to be as "famous" as Pavement and as long-lived as Superchunk.

Bartender

[grioghar]

IT Sales and Apple Certified 10AM-7PM, 9PM-2to3AM - Bartender at the major music venue here in town. Best of both worlds.

Habitat for Humanity

[Sergeant Beavis]

I don't really have a side job. Instead, I go out and help build houses for Habitat for Humanity. I'm a computer nerd by trade but I'm a carpenter by heart. I love to build things and building for those who otherwise would never own a home is very rewarding. I also do the occasional church raising out in the rural areas.

Re:And on this point...

[mesach]

You have obviously NEVER done tech support.

Me:Ok whats on the screen.
Them: Some box thing.
Me: ok what does the message say in the box.
Them: I dont know.
Me: Can you read it to me?
Them: It says something about windows.
Me: OK what does it say about windows.
Them: Something about Internet being Shut down.
Me: Were you on the internet when the problem happened?
Them: (defensive) NO!
Me: Was anything changed since it worked last?
Them: NO! CAN YOU COME OVER HERE AND LOOK AT IT?
Me: I'll be right over

So I go over because they have messed up VNC somehow and I cannot connect to the computer, and the error is something to the effect of

Your document has been sent to the printer

|OK|

Or my personal favorite, is when some issue happens and we get a bunch of calls about it, so we send out a net message asking everyone to please not call about the issue we already are working on it... Invariably 5-10 people will call immediately either stating that they have an error on thier computer what do they do, or they ask about the message and what do we want them to do about it.

READ IT DAMNIT. ITS IN ENGLISH, YOU MORON!

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[dewke]

Trouble is, many family members do not want to pay you to clean megs of spyware off their computer and straighten out lord knows what goofy symptoms it has. They want you to do it for free.

Ahh the joys of family. Does your mom charge you for Thanksgiving dinner? No, of course not. So we all get to "fix" our families pc's for free because it's what we do.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[vrmlguy]

So, a few weeks ago my wife asked me if I could clean up the computer of one of the other Girl Scout den-mothers. After listening to the job description, I said, "Let me get this right. You're asking me to go to the home of a 27-year-old divorcee who wants me to look at a computer full of porn while her kids aren't home. No problem!"

Best Buy

[Anonymous Coward]

I work at best buy as side work. Amazingly it is great place to work, the discounts are insane, new videos cards with 100$+ off, tv's, digital cameras.. The prices are great, plus I get paid to play with a bunch of new toys.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[buysse]

After that reply, did you still get to go?

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[Slime-dogg]

Maybe he should. When I get home, I know that I loathe opening up a programming environment. I've thought about some various side projects and stuff, but I never follow through on them. The reason is that I get paid to program. I think it's fun, but I don't find recreation in it.

I also have quite a bit of IT knowledge: fixing up computers, abolishing ad-ware, fixing user accounts, training, getting things to "work..." I hate it when my aunt says to me, "Mike, I've got a problem with my computer. My scanner..." First off, I dislike the headache I get when trying to fix things, when I could be doing something fun (i.e. playing pool). Second, I hate that I feel an obligation to work because she's my aunt.

A good side job is what I had a couple of years ago. I was a barista in a coffee shop. I could relax, talk to the customers, shoot the breeze with my co-workers, and generally not think about computers at all. I came home tired, but happy. I was refreshed in the morning as well.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[JanneM]

Renée Magritte (of "This in not a pipe" fame) went to his studio every morning after breakfast, then came home at the same time every day for dinner with the family, effectively treating the art as his dayjob.

Just because someone really likes doing something - even if they are passionate about it - people may well want to not do it all the time. Most scientists do not actually spend all their waking hours thinking about their work, most mucisians aren't always playing or thinking about music.

Most people, passionate or not, do want a life.

Porn cleaner ...

[crimethinker]

From a different angle:

My daughter's sunday school teacher is a single mom with teenage boys. She doesn't have a lot of money, but a family member gave her a new computer last Christmas, and the phone company is selling DSL for only a few bucks more than AOHell. Knowing she can't afford to pay anyone to set it up, I agree to help her set it up, no charge.

A few months later, she's having trouble - can't log in to some site to sign up for a credit-card processing account so she can accept CC for her Mary Kay side business, and she asks for help. I go over one night after work, and one of her boys is doing his homework at the kitchen table, PC in the living room.

She shows me the error, and I immediately point out that CyberSitter or some similar censorware is blocking the site. "Yes, I installed that to help keep the porn off the computer." I pull up the logs, and it's FULL of porn sites being blocked at times when she was at work. He tried to blame it on spam and spyware, and I was non-committal, just wanted to get the thing working for her, but I think she had a little talk with him after I left.

Can you say "uncomfortable?"

P.S. Still can't figure out why cybershitter blocks a credit card merchant site, but I just told her to disable the software when she logged in to do CC stuff.

-paul

Re:Porn cleaner ...

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

P.S. Still can't figure out why cybershitter blocks a credit card merchant site, but I just told her to disable the software when she logged in to do CC stuff.

If the particular CC company is used by porn sites to process payments, that might just be the reason!

Re:Porn cleaner ...

[Anonymous Coward]

If the particular CC company is used by porn sites to process payments, that might just be the reason!

Unless the merchant site itself hosts pr0n, I see no reason for blocking it for porn reasons since presumably they'd be unable to get there from the blocked porn site, or back from there to the pr0n site.

It's more likely that the thing blocked the site to keep the kids from sneaking the cards out of mommys purse (or some numbers off IRC) and going on a shopping spree.

Re:Porn cleaner ...

[plover]

I try to make sure the family is as bored as possible watching me clean up with Spybot. Hopefully, they lose interest and wander off before it starts listing the deleted cookies like C:\Documents and settings\14-year-old-kids-name\cookies\xxx.sexxxtr acker.sex

I don't want to be in a position to have to "pass judgement" on them, nor do I want to narc on the kids. I figure that if they're having me clean up porn popups, then they've already figured out that "someone" has been visiting naughty sites. It's their job to deal with their kids, not mine.

As for me, I don't care for blocking software, and I don't have it in my house. I think parents need to be parental, rather than hope for some automated solution. Besides, I think most kids are smart enough that they view blocking software as a sign that "dad doesn't trust them." If you're running blocking software, then guess what? They're right.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[Artifakt]

Ad-Aware has just about totally stopped me from charging people I halfway like. When someone agrees to a. change to Mozilla or Firefox, and b. Install ad-Aware, and learn how to use it, I will usually help them not only with that, but fix a few other niggling little nuisances their PC suffers from. If they are blindly loyal to IE, they tend to get charged about 30 bucks an hour.
I only charge one relative, but he's a second cousin that is convinced he can make more money in the market if he has an even faster connection. He is currently using cable internet because they said it was up to 5 times faster than local DSL, ignoring that he can't get that speed during the hours the market trades, and when he heard that the cable speeds tend to be faster early in the morning (like 4 A.M.), he decided to start trading on forign exchanges, even though he knows next to nothing about the companies involved, because he's that convinced the extra speed somehow matters. He hears a distorted explanation of resetting MTU's in the Windows registry for faster access systems, from one of his clueless friends, and I get another call. Him, I charge for calls.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[Lumpy]

I don't really want to clean megs of spyware off a family members' computer, but if they want to slip me some cash I'll be right over.

take a tip from Billy Gates.

nobody get's something for free. bill charged his family and that is how he started microsoft.

Aunt Meggie can either give you $50 bucks or she can give the computer super center $120.00 to fix her computer.

It works great, and the first time they get real prices to have a computer repaired and it returned to them with everything erased they will gladly feed you, give you a beer and 50 bones in cash.

I stopped giving away my weekends and weeknights to relatives and friends years ago. give them a deep discount like my example, but do NOT give it away free.

Getting people to read important messages

[CoughDropAddict]

When I was in college I was an administrator in the "Advanced Computing Lab" -- basically a lab that had slightly beefier machines and bigger monitors than other labs. It was intended for math and science students, but to many non-math/science people it was a place they were more likely to find a free computer than the busy general-purpose labs.

One year they clamped down and started only letting math/science people log in. I was sitting in the lab working one day, shortly after this policy was instituted. To give people fair warning, I wrote the following message on the white board:

PLEASE READ (<-- in HUGE letters)
There is a new policy in place where only people
on the ACLUsers list can login in this lab. You
are on this list if you are enrolled in a math or
science class in this building.

You could not possibly miss this sign. And yet, over the course of the few hours I was there, I saw countless people exhibit the following behavior:

1. walk in the door
2. glance momentarily at the sign (long enough to read "PLEASE READ", but no more)
3. sit down at a computer
4. try to log in
5. look puzzled
6. try a few more times
7. try a different computer
8. come over and ask me "is there something wrong with the computers in this lab?"

It was maddening! I wanted to smack them!

It's tempting to conclude from this story (as I did at the time) that most people are just ignorant and lazy. I think that the more useful lesson is: you'll never get people to pay attention to something by asking them to. Writing "PLEASE READ" is a futile effort. You have to make them WANT to read the sign; people read things because they WANT to, not because they SHOULD.

A much better strategy would have been to change the heading from "PLEASE READ" to "CAN'T LOG IN?"

I evangelicalize Apple

[ellem]

really.

Neighbor: I want to buy a new computer!
Me: Buy a Mac.
Neighbor: But...
Me: If you buy a Windows based PC you get one FREE call then I charge you 125USD/hr like I do all my clients. But if you buy a Mac you can call me anytime.
Neighbor: Well I saw this Dell.
Me: CHING! You owe me 125USD starting... now.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[ghjm]

Just like if your brother's a plumber and you have a clogged toilet.

Why should your family pay you to do what you can do? They already did what they could for you, or you wouldn't be here.

Friends and acquaintances are a different story. However, the story's not much different whether a plumber or a computer guy tells it.

-Graham

Confessions of a True Spammer

[neowinx]

Alright alright, I fess up. As a side job I subscribe billg@microsoft.com to various pr0n and spam lists.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[suckmysav]

I'm just damn glad I didn't choose to be a gynecologist really.

Imagine those guys doing side jobs for their families . . .

IT _is_ blue collar

[kahei]

Get used to it.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[bluGill]

Perhaps, but in return for fixing my Uncle's computer he gave me a $3000 iron filter for my water. (it was broke, but he had the parts to fix it)

Its the family joke, Christmas at his house to fix the computer, Thanksgiving at ours to fix the water. Easter, birthday parties, graduation, and other family get togethers you count on either a water softener being rebuilt, or a computer being cleaned up.

volunteer? learn? women?

[danwiz]

I'm a contract Java programmer and work is spotty right now. I occasionally do volunteer work for non-profits, but they usually call me at odd hours and expect me to perform miracles on a shoe-string budget. Right now I'm helping my senior neighbors install and use their new PC. I'm moving at the end of the month and they bought a new machine and a store service contract (at my recommendation). They're paying me in free meals and beer.

I fixed a (non geek) friend's girlfriend's PC and she's asked me to help a few of her friends. I make it a point when I install things like Firefox to emphasize that I "customize it" with special features, so she when she bragged to her friends about her experience there was only one place to go to - ME. Another advantage is that if you're dating someone and she doesn't work out, either she won't bother you for tech support any more or she'll go out of her way to ensure that you remain good friends.

The best "side-job" I've found ... learning. Keeping my skills current and playing with the parts of my skillset that I like. It may not directly bring in a paycheck, but it can enhance your marketability and make you more effective/efficient at your current position.

I know some a creative mechanic who drives a "tweaked" car, an electrician with a fantastic christmas display, a chef who likes to throw dinner parties to show off, and a few carpenters with some really nice home interiors. If you're not happy using your skills outside of work, then you're probably not totally happy with your career. To me, that's difference between a career and a job.

Re:Drink. Heavily.

[ediron2]

1. stop taking off-hours support calls, or at least limit them, if they're making it at all difficult for you to be a 9 to 5 person at a company that cares about this horses**t. And know that there are companies that respect what you're doing. Mine would.
2. show up 5 minutes early.
3. leave at 5:01, or whenever is 'normal'.
4. Learn seven polite and politically-defensible ways to say no. Better yet, learn the japanese trick of saying 'yes' in a way that means 'no'. Theirs is sort of a very-polite 'yeah, right!', although the literal translation is 'That's Fine.' Use these whenever you're asked to overextend yourself. The best is to simply not pick up the phone and drop the pager/cell into some ice tea (acidic saturation is hell on circuit boards).
5. Move on as soon as you can. It's always better to quit than be fired.
6. Once you're out the door, recognize that your team lead also just (indirectly) told you that (s)he is unwilling or incapable of standing up for you. That, not the thought of getting canned, is why you need to get out now.
7. It might be possible to look up the org chart and find someone that will champion you where your lead won't. If so, ask for their mentorship and help, but be graceful. If it helps, offer to give them VERY BRIEF summaries on the stuff you're doing after hours, to show why you're concerned both for your job and the company's best interests.
8. Take to reading the daily shark. It's therapeutic. Even now, 4 years away from my last job-from-hell, I occasionally grate my teeth at the idiotic s**t people submit there. I'm still not over the damage they did... that's how bad that long-gone job was.
9. Oh, and once you're out the door, take to submitting to the shark. Even more therapeutic. Be careful about specifics, since coworkers at that job-from-hell put 2 and 2 together, showed it to the boss, and now she hates me. C'est la vie.

As for seeking greener pastures, I worked 3 or 4 truly hellish jobs. One firm moved me 4 times in a year; my colleagues had resumes that spanned 20-40 job sites in 5 to 10 years. Another was small enough that the ceo and his wife split managerial duties, and their marital strife led to us getting conflicting orders twice a day. And so on... until I got in with a company full of wizards and acolytes that was managed with an eye toward us having balanced lives. Full telecommute privileges, anything-goes flexibility to hours we worked, etc. What I'd call 'professionals leading professionals' is so much better than the crap you're enduring. Yeah, I work wicked long hours, but I do it in my own fashion: I come in late, I stay a bit late, I go home and play with my kids and then go to my computer room and work for another few hours (or not) at my own discretion. From that first good gig, I've gone to another firm with similar rules. The work's fun and cutting-edge, with plenty of time for retrospection and self-training. Oh, and I make double what I did for any of the sweatshops. As the kid says, "I highly recommend it."

One last comment: having been around the field for quite a while, I suspect that we're still shedding non-geeks from the DotBomb years. The extra pressure and strain is a good thing in that respect: it gets rid of people that don't do this out of love. A few more years and we should be back to where demand exceeds supply just enough to give us more options.

Yeah, I know that flies in the face of outsourcing/etc, but a guy can dream. Everything I see still points toward no end to the problem of expanding complexity and increased I/T security risks. That, for me, means plenty of work to be done.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[calebtucker]

You get to sleep in until 8? I hate you.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[allism]

Welll...would you expect your brother to charge you if you kept throwing, say, Depends down your toilet and expected him to keep fixing it for free, despite the fact that he has repeatedly told you not to throw your goddamn incontinent diapers down the toilet? Especially since after you flushed the Depends down the toilet, you decided to flush a box of tampons and a couple of rolls of toilet paper too to see if that would clear it up?

That's what fixing my families' computers feels like anymore - they don't update their virus protection, they open anything that they get in their email, they don't plug their computers into surge protectors, and then they wonder why we dread their phone calls. Every time we make the drive to their house (nine hours away if the weather is good and my toddler is very cooperative, thirteen if the above conditions are not met), we end up working on their computers. We have friends down there that they could call that would gladly come work on their computers at the first sign of trouble for the price of a home-cooked meal, but they try to fix it themselves, hose it up even more (like doing a parallel install of an older version of Windows 98 just because someone gave them the disk, then not understanding why all their apps cease to work) and then wait until we travel home for a visit to tell us their computer isn't working, but fail to mention things like the parallel install or the lightning striking their house after they decided to put the surge protector on their washing machine instead of leaving it on the computer. They also fail to mention that it's not working before we start the drive down so that we can pack parts from the graveyard, so it ends up either costing us money to buy them parts or they complain about the cost of computer parts when we make them buy the replacements.

My attitude toward the whole thing would probably be helped if my mother didn't keep telling me how much she hates the computer I gave her for Christmas last year. All the hardware was failing on her old computer, so I gave her and her partner both refurbished computers for Christmas. All I hear is how much she hates the damned thing.

If I treated my plumber like that, he would never come to my house again, no matter how much I paid him.

OK, I can end my rant now. I would probably be calmer about it except that we just got back from a trip there - we were working on their computers until a half hour before we left to drive back.

Share Trading, Counselling, Writing and Consulting

[Michael Snoswell]

I trade shares for hobby and at the current rate that hobby will pay enough for me to quit by high paying day job (senior computer systems engineer in a defense company) in 3-5 years (I've been doing it for 2 years). This takes aabout an hour a week (value investing, not day trading).

I also went back to study phsychology and ended up as a qualified counsellor where a see a couple of clients a week to help keep me in touch with real humans. I also do some tutoring work for counselling students (which is all weekend and evenings). This takes a few hours a week plus 8-16 hours when I'm tutoring.

I write written scripts (have done two cartoon episodes for The Toons: Where are they now?) and am working on a self help book and a novel. Not to make money but because I like writing. This is usually only a 1-2 hrs a week (averaged over a year)

Because my day job in IT is so senior I don't get to do interesting technical/creative stuff I do little PC setup jobs for friends and write php/mysql apps for friends businesses (currently doing a 1.5TB image management and workflow system). This is about 10hrs a week at the moment.

I'm also developing some self help workshops which I hope to start running early next year. This takes 2-3 hrs a week (at the moment).

This is on top of my 50hr a week job, a wife and 4 children. I do as much extra stuff as I can after everyone else is in bed (eg 10pm onwards) and sleep about 5 hrs a night (with the occassional 10hr night to catch up).

The idea is to develop paying work that has a very high hourly rate so I can work less hours. The share trading is best, earning several hundred dollars an hour and in future for the same effort this will increase as profits are simpy reinvested and not consumed. Secondly the counselling is experience towards doing the workshops, where you can charge 30 ppl $200 for a weekend workshop (16hrs) to give a similar hourly rate (minus overheads and prep time).

Currently all this augments my income by about 30% (up from 10% last year) so I'm on track to retire within 5 years.

I also used to play in a band (did 3 albums) which was an aweful lot of fun but an aweful waste of time. Once kids came along that something had to give!

The best way to relax is playing with the kids, programming and writing (for me at least).

I still toss around ideas of high tech startups (I had one in the late 90s with angel funding but we never got to the big venture capital stage) but nothing is as assured as 1) value investing with shares, and 2) a 9-5 job.

If money and creating spare time weren't a concern I would probably just counsel people and write, but I wouldn't make a good living out of it (well, I might but it's unlikely - I'm not abuot to plan on an improbably income stream when I have a mortgage and kids!).

well, I fight fires.

[CFD339]

With the small town I'm in, they need all the help they can get.

So, by day(and night) I'm a not so mild mannered computer geek; while by night (and day) I run into burning buildings.

Re:well, I fight fires.

[ic3p1ck]

At first I read that as 'I light fires'...

With the small town I'm in, they need all the help they can get.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[Xavic]

to be honest, i could probably live happily without touching a box at all outside of my 9-5. i do however do a great deal of side work, mainly web scripting for people that want dynamic sites to do whatever. i also do onsite computer/networking work for $50/hr using only word of mouth for advertising. my side work yearly income is somewhere around 15k so far this year, so im not doing too bad. and no, i was smart enough to NOT sign any non-competes...

Re:Off-Hours Plumbing

[Ellis D. Tripp]

Improper plumbing (not installing a backflow preventer where required, for example) can result in waste/sewage entering the municipal water supply system, potentially endangering MANY lives.

Most plumbers also install gas/oil fired heating systems, for which the hazards of improper installation should be obvious. Even an improperly vented gas water heater could kill via CO poisoning....

Re:SIDE JOB: Volunteering for Human Rights

[wondergibbon]

Dear Mr Bush,

We, the authors of the CIA World Fact Book, were under the mistaken belief that it was the People's Republic Of China (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos /ch.html) - "mainland China" - who asserted sovereignty over Tibet, not Taiwan, (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos /tw.html), which is an island off the south east coast of PRC. Thank you for the clarification. We must have overlooked the invasion of the mainland while we were looking for those pesky weapons of mass destruction.

We've got a small favor to ask - can you state that Palestine and Israel are in fact several thousand miles apart, and thereby ending one Middle East conflict? Oh, and the Department of Defence would like to know if you could move Iraq and Afganistan to a more temperate climate, and prefeably to somewhere where the transport costs are lower.

We have also liaised with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Taiwan pn your behalf, and report that the translation the speaker was looking for in that awkward silence was "idiot."

Thanks.

Get away from the computer

[lotus87]

My side job is purposefully different from my work. I referee ice hockey and inline hockey. The pay is pretty decent, $10 to $50+ for a one hour game, depending on the level of play, league, and location. Plus, you get some exercise, meet new people outside of IT/CS, and get to teach new players how to play the game.

Up front costs do stink a little if you start from scratch, $200-$300 is typical for all new gear and 1st year registration. But that's deductible, and if you referee a few games per month, you're back in the black pretty quickly.

I have also performed freelance home computer services, but playing & refereeing hockey have generally been more fun and better for my % body fat.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[tekiegreg]

Well I consider it a trade of sorts....

For example, my Dad is a lawyer and a damn good one. I fix his computer for free no questions asked. When some big bad corporate bully comes picking on me for no apparent reason (aka a big overcharge on a bill or a denied insurance claim), I turn my dad on them, think of it as an M1A1 Abrams handling the big bad bully...in the end it all works out I think :-)

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[SCHecklerX]

And on the other hand you have people like myself that like to see how much use you can get out of aging hardware & enjoy the challenge. But then again, I don't maintain networks/computers for a living anymore.

I used to use a single box for everything at home. Pentium 133, with 128MB of ram. It was my jukebox, firewall, mailserver, database server, web server, etc. Worked fine, but I didn't like having a single point of failure.

These days, that box *was* my mail server (just now replaced it with a P2 550), and I have a separate firewall, and 'everything else' server (PIII ... forget the speed). The 'everything else' box is hooked to the tv, and has web browsing, Xine, Xmms, and such. (I'm too lazy to build a real mythtv box :) In addition it is doing dhcp, mysql, apache, etc.

Right now, I am using a P75 with 16MB of ram as a smoothwall firewall (that will be the P133's new function), and of course the other two servers I mentioned.

So, yeah, I know what you mean about older hardware. It's great being able to use it. Heck the stuff I have is way overpowered for the amount of work it has to do (watching videos being the exception).

I also own a Toshiba Libretto...now that thing is 'low power'. I have it overclocked to 266MHz, and it can play Mpeg-1 videos pretty well. It runs firefox respectably too. The real bottlenecks seem to be the non-DMA drive in it, and the 64MByte memory limit. But it is a great little box to use as a car jukebox, wireless stumbler, photo repository, and browser when I need it. I put a 20Gig drive in it, and partitioned the LVM so that I can still hibernate it (the bios dumps hibernation right at the 4 Gig mark).

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[yourexhalekiss]

My girlfriend's dad is a highly skilled plumber - he was hired at the nuclear power plant for some special work there. He definitely knows what he's doing.

Nonetheless, when the pipes freeze or a toilet clogs, he, without fail, always calls someone else to do it.

chinese tv commercial actor

[jintian]

I'm a western man living in Beijing. Westerners are often used here as foreign experts in TV commercials to lend some additional semblance of credibility to the product pitch. I have played a doctor, an Australian scientist, and suit & tie businessmen. Products have included breast enlargement kits, hi-tech underwear, and chinese herbal medicine (the Strong Bones Particles of Six Flavors). Usually I just have to mouth some words because they'll do a voiceover in Chinese later, but occasionally I have to speak - and translate very bad English into something a real person might actually say. Its not very lucrative but it is diverting.

What I do...

[phreakmonkey]

... when a friend or relative wants me to do some "above and beyond" computer repair:

I require them to make a $25 donation to the Electronic Frontier Foundation. They can use the receipt in email as proof.

That way they don't feel like I'm just trying to make a buck off them, and I feel more inspired to actually do a decent job of solving their problem. Plus it help out a good cause.

Mind you- I don't consider some basic stuff as "above and beyond".. Eg: configuring outlook for someones IMAP server &etc. Cleaning off adware / viruses definitely warrants a donation- and a short lesson in "what not do to on the Internet."

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[mjweyland]

I have my father convinced PEBKAC is a legitmate computer virus.

Him: "Uh, you wanna come over and take a look at my PC."
Me: "Why? Whats Up?"
Him: "I think I have another PEBKAC on my PC again."
Me: "Were you looking at email from people you didnt know and opening attachments?"
Him: "I can't remember. Just come over and take a look"
Me: "Sounds like a PEBKAC issue."
Him: "That is what I'm thinking too."

This does not apply to me...

[kabrakan]

A side job? I dont understand.. But I work at EA.

Something Completely Different

[mgooderum]

I work part time as a paramedic. I agree with most posters, after 50-60 hours a week of startup grind the last thing I want to do is IT or programming for someone else. What little spare energy I have goes into my personal bits for myself.

Being a paramedic is everything IT is not - lot's of people interaction, some physical labor, outside time. It's also personally rewarding in a way that programming isn't. I've never been applauded for my work as a programmer, something I have had happen a few times as a medic. I've also never been offered a blow job as a programmer, but I have been a few times as a medic. As a married and ethical man I do not require applause nor accept the blow jobs but as a human being and a terminal male I appreciate the consideration present in both.

I originally became a medic because a bit of volunteering as an EMT showed me I loved the work and I thought that (as my plans were at the time) that the medic job would provide a salary baseline and benefits when consulting wore thin. Well - the bubble burst and I'm an employee again but I keep up the medic because it's a perfect escape from the office and if things really go south it's one job I know they _can't_ ship to India.

The wages are not great but when you can work a 24 hour shift and get paid 24 hours for one calendar day it does add up even for a few days a month enough for even an overpaid technoweenie like me to notice.

After 15 years in the development trenches I would love to work full time as a medic and have the energy to expend my skills part time on programming but then I couldn't afford a new GeForce 6600 or flying as often. I also like not sweating that I'm getting the $4 latte instead of the $1.25 cup of joe, something most full time medics have to worry about.

At some point I may make the trade of money versus time for lifestyle as we achieve certain financial goals, but for now it works as is.

Consulting

[ca1v1n]

I used to work tech support at one of the rare well-managed, worker-respecting tech support places, and fairly frequently we'd get calls about things we don't support. Standard procedure was to refer them to the consulting companies we had deals with. Because of these contracts, our users got good deals from them, but only for major projects, since they'd typically have minimum fees that would be rather exorbitant for the small odd jobs they often needed. We'd often get calls back asking if anyone wanted to drop by for a half hour after work and do whatever the odd job in question was for $30 or so. Our manager actually encouraged this practice, since we were still supporting everything we were supposed to and honoring our contracts, and our users were getting the unsupported odd jobs done that were too small for formal consulting. This required our manager paying attention to make sure we were really doing our jobs properly and not trying to screw our customers, but I believe I already mentioned we had good management.

Re:SIDE JOB: Volunteering for Human Rights

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm... I think he was pointing out that as many in taiwan want independence it is a bit of a double standard to say tibet can't have it too.

But I mean, don't just ask him what he meant... start dissing him out. Stupid myopic american "put-down" culture.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[Archimonde]

In my Sociology 101 book I found some interesting facts.

When they are at home, blue collar workers don't do anything. They usually watch TV and do small tasks. Thats because their work is so physically hard that they are exhausted when they arrive at home.

White collar workers when at home usually do some hobby unrelated to their actual work. They do some sport or any other hobby.

Managers (or the upper class) usually do the same job when they come home. In a way they do the same job the whole day. That is because their work is not physically demanding so they can work the whole day.

Rich irony

[GCP]

How ironic that in going for the tired "Bush is ignorant about the world" sophomoric humor, you demonstrate your own ignorance about the world.

The poster you were responding to is correct in what he said about *Taiwan*. While fighting back the attempts of the mainland to extend their tyranny over them, they yet wholeheartedly approve of Chinese tyranny over Tibet.

The Taiwanese and the Mainland Chinese, you and Bush, your use of "idiot", ah, the ironies are rich....

Re:SIDE JOB: Volunteering for Human Rights

[GCP]

get over your myths

Get over your own.

If Tibet was so miserable before the Chinese "liberated" them, why did the flood of refugees leaving Tibet occur AFTER "liberation"? Your myths are just Chinese propaganda used to excuse China's imperialism. Though the Tibetans had a theocracy, not a democracy, it was still based on things they believed in.

The Chinese invaders simply want to take their land, and are imprisoning, torturing, and killing anyone who tries to stop them. You must be so proud of them.

I speak Chinese, and I picked up a couple of People's Liberation Army soldiers on the road near Mt. Everest in Tibet recently. They were bragging about how they had just managed to capture some poor families trying to escape over the mountains. These soldiers were so proud at how they had hunted down these poor, half-frozen women and children. Real People's Heros.

I asked them if they didn't consider it ironic that they called themselves Jiefang Jun, the "People's Liberation" Army, yet their job was to prevent any hope of liberation. Their answer, not surprisingly, was the same Chinese propaganda coming out of you.

don't try to pretend like it's not one country now

Don't try to pretend it IS one country. It's two: China and Tibet, but Tibet is full of Chinese soldiers ready to imprison and torture anybody who dares say so, so I'll say it for them. If the Tibetans could vote, they would overwhelmingly vote to throw out the Chinese occupiers, but the "Chinese People's Government" doesn't even allow its own people to vote, much less people in neighboring countries that they have invaded.

Your argument that fifty years of occupation makes it one country didn't persuade the Chinese that Hong Kong was British, or that Taiwan after more than 50 years is now an independent country, so why should it make Tibet the property of the Chinese?

It doesn't, and it's not.

Re:The last thing I want to do when I go home is..

[captaincucumber]

>I never understood why peons sitting at a desk all day feel superior to people doing physical or skilled work.

I can explain this for you. Everyone feels that whatever sort of work they do is superior to the type of work everyone else does. White collar people feel superior to blue collar people because they are rough and uneducated, blue collar people feel superior to white collar people because they are soft and lazy and don't know how to change their own oil or catch fish. And sociologists feel superior to of all of them, because they think they are the only ones who understand the whole thing. And me, I chuckle at the inferiority of all of you with your week minds and simple thoughts.