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Driver's Licenses with Digital Watermarks
ForceQuit writes "MIT Technology Review reports that Minnesota will begin issuing a unique driver's license designed to combat counterfeiting. It includes a reflective image (of a loon) that appears to float above and below the card when the license is tilted. It also includes an invisible, digital watermark capable of carrying security data such as date of birth. The information would be readable only through a computerized scanner, which law enforcement officers could carry."
The floating images will be of loons, an enduring symbol of the state.
I thought that was California?!?!
The picture of the Loon is actually your photo!
This sounds like a good idea. Identity fraud is a serious problem. I work at an insurance office in Saskatchewan (Canada) that does license issuing among other things. We get all sorts of efforts to acquire fake ID, it's rather pathetic. Almost all of the efforts involve trying to drink under age, but these days the reality is that people will try to get fake identities for less savoury purposes. It's hard to criticize this move by Minnesota.
So really, there is no need to worry from a teenage perspective. It'll be another 10 years before any kind of tavern has a card-swiper to actually tell that you're not of age. By then, someone will have found some way to replace/confuse the machine and you'll appear of age.
Don't see any possible problems with this move, apart from the immigration part. Sounds like the information encoded in the chip contains no sensitive information, so that's a bonus, and a more secure identification system makes the entire system more reliable. However, from the article:
There will also be a "status check" notation on the front and back of licenses showing when an immigrant's visa expires, something the state already had begun to put on licenses despite opposition from civil liberties groups.
This is a bit of a sticky point, IMHO. This isn't really necessary, and will probably achieve nothing but undue stress for immigrants, and prompt deportation if an illegal gets caught at a traffic stop (presuming that these IDs can not be forged). I don't know what Minnesota's illegal immigrant problem is, but this is a disturbing development. It's a drivers license, not a citizenship card. First step in a bad direction?
"There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
- Bob Dylan
None of this encoding my life history on the card, or letting my card broadcast my identification to everyone sitting on the bus with me. This state has it right. If the cop wants my information, he can stop me and ask me for it. The things on the computer readable portion are on the card anyway, so it lets the cop scan me in and let me go on my merry way faster, without the hassle of having my DL number mistyped and coming up as some wanted murderer.
Maybe I should look into moving.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
It says something in there about a digital ID being readable by law enforcement with a scanner? What kind of ID is this? Is it Radio based or flash based? I really don't want people walking around and aiming a scanner at me, and all the sudden the billboard I'm walking next to says "Hey Joe, I know you're 28, male, and live in the suburbs, and here's the most effective adversting for you!"
Why, are the scanners really that heavy?
Sure, I love it when the guy at the bar scans my license even though I'm 26. That way, when anyone needs some ammunition they can easily show I'm a raging alcoholic.
If so, it can be reproduced. The only issue is if the cost is too high to make it worthwhile to copy.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"It also includes an invisible, digital watermark capable of carrying security data such as date of birth."
Read: Embedded RFID...
We all knew it was coming, but will there be any privacy concerns from it? Strangely they didn't really go into any details in the article about the "digital watermark" other than the fact that it would require a "computerized scanner" to read it. I wonder if/when they will release further details of just what they are planning on doing to their citizenry.
otherwise my fake ID would never have worked. This is a sad day for underagers everywhere.... the beginning of the end.
All this to keep terrorists from attacking us. And by 'keep terrorists from attacking us', I mean 'keep underage kids from buying beer'.
What does it matter if you can just get an ID from another state? For instance, drivers licenes from Jersey are just a laminated piece of paper with a "hologram" (which was just shiny marking).
to all the other states that DONT issue a "unique" drivers license?
Michigan has been doing this for some time.
I just happened across this the other day. Filling out an accident claim I saw this page on the MN Dept. of Public Safety site which has a picture of the new liscense. My first impression was not terribly positive. To me it looks pretty ugly, but whatever.
How is this news?
Missouri has been issuing drivers licenses with a digital water mark of the state capitol for a number of years.
I'm from the state of Minnesota, and while my license doesn't expire until 07, I'm going to fork over the $8 to get my new one. For those of you putting on the tinfoil hats, I think that these licenses are not going to be the start of some Big Brother scheme. Sure, they'll have some of your info digitally imprinted on it, but who cares? It wont be abused.
And as for the Civil Liberties union and all of their "concerns"; Sorry. If your special immigrant is here and can't seem to renew their passport on time as the law states, then they're here illegally, and they'll face the consequence. I want an officer of the law to know this, instead of simply letting them go to have some other officer have to track the person down at a later date.
All in all, I think this is a definite move in the right direction, and a pretty cool one at that.
Ok, I live in Wisconsin. I could have sworn we have this kind of protection in our Drivers License anyway? We have digital scanning ids, and we have watermarks on our card plus UV light identification. Maybe I'm just mistaken....
Umm.. hello... virtually every ID is like this now and has been for years.
Now, apparently the slashdot people have gotten so bad that not only do they hardly ever leave their parents basements, when they do they don't even have identification on them, considering the last time i saw a state ID or DL that did not have such security measures was probably in the early 90's.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Summary of posts:
- This is shocking! Now criminals can see I'm male, and determine my age. Just by looking at me (with a IR scanner device)!
- Yeah, it's fine now, but it's a slippery slope, soon they'll shove these cards in your BRAIN! I told you 1984 was right!
- This is great, those filthy criminals should be shot, anything that keeps us safe is good, and I don't care what the costs are.
- I don't have anything to hide what do I care! Only bad people have bad things happens to them.
- Americans are stupid, and you voted Bush. Americans are stupid!
- And, lots of contrived shitty jokes.
Enjoy.
...will be whether or not the new licenses will take 6-8 weeks to process, the way a prior MN license did. In one of the prior iterations, they stamped a bunch of the data (name, address, etc) into the plastic (much like a credit card). These licenses took some 6 weeks to get, making it hard to get bank accounts and the like set up when you first move into the state. (Indeed, I had a bank that wouldn't accept permit me to open an account with an out-of-state DL)
Can someone explain to us non-Americans what a "loon" is? The only association I have with that word is "lunatic," which I'm guessing is not what's actually on the drivers' license.
define:loon
I wonder why an entire state in the US wants a lazy, worthless person incapable on serious thought for identification purposes!
Someone walks past me with a hand-held scanner and gets my date of birth, and they have one of the more important keys for ID theft. Who's to say they wouldn't eventually ask to put my SSN number on there too?
Thanks, but no thanks - that is totally unnecessary for someone to identify me. I don't need my wallet telling people private info w/o my permission...
It's got this pattern of staple holes all over the corner.
sigs, as if you care.
So uh, What will prevent terrorists from just stealing drivers licenses from people who look like them?
Method One: Dress nice, get a decent looking date, go to a place that isn't some sort of meat rack with a million screaming "teenangers" trying to crash their way in, lay a fifty on the table, and order. Rarely fails.
Method two: Go to a bar without a license. The company is probably better. Well, at least more interesting.
Is there an underager out there that doesn't know this?
*whup* "Get along, little electrons. Heeyah!"
Yah, shure, Sven, I know. But it's for your own protection, anyway, don'tcha know. We have to keep the next Moussaoui outta here somehow...
When did Minnesota become Canada's newest province?
/obscure reference
Buncha loons.
SNACKS ARE AWESOME
The article doesn't go into to much technical detail, but I wonder if the digital watermark has any level on encryption at all. I could imagine a clever hacker working around the digital watermark -- unless is has a formidable amount of encryption.
Even better would be a system where each piece of information was encrypted with a different key.
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
I live in Minnesota and here are a few factoids:
The DL's also have had common mag strips for a while. I haven't heard if they are going to retain them.
The state also puts other certificate information on them such as firearm training, boat safety training and snowmobile safety training.
The Common Loon is the state bird.
Nightclubs have the right to refuse anyone for any reason. This includes valid paper ID's from other states.
A friend who lives in Central America was visiting Minnesota and we tried to get into a club. He had his foreign DL, his passport and Minnesota paperwork for duplicate Minnesota DL and was refused entry! To me, a passport trumps everything but, hey, bouncers aren't particularly known to be rocket scientists.
I hope in the future of ID management that credit card transactions at retail stores and/or via the Internet become more of a two factor transaction, first requiring the card and then requiring a swipe of the driver's license or state id.
As a one time victim of id theft and credit card fraud, I hope that the technology being used to help law enforcement ID people when necessary could be used in the private sector to help secure our financial identities.
It would be difficult for someone who's stolen your credit card to make a purchase if they also had to produce your driver's license. Granted most people keep both of those items in their wallets/purses, but I still think it would be a deterrant.
In most states there is no penalty for forgetting your driver's license at home, or for travelling without it if you're not driving. (The latter would raise all sorts of right to travel issues. The former results in a warning to produce the license within 10 days.)
So from a privacy perspective, am I not better off just leaving my license at home wrapped up in my tinfoil hat?
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
>Fake ID cards made it possible for the Sept. 11 terrorists to board commercial flights.
I am 99% sure that NONE of the 9/11 terrorists used fake IDs and that all of them boarded under their real name, despite the fact that some of them were on terrorist watch lists.
Can anyone confirm/research this? (I'm too lazy)
Despite the article repeating oft-quoted lies -- the September 11th terrorists did not have fake drivers' licenses. They had valid, state issued licenses that were incorrectly issued. In one case, the terrorists bribed a state employee.
In reality, this gives money to 3M (anyone tracking those campaign donations?), makes it harder for underage drinkers to doctor their ID, and gives the State further excuse to track the citizens.
yes, because it's all stored in the SUPER DUPER EVIL GOVERNMENT TRACKING DATABASE!
You know what those barcode scanners do? They simply read the unencrypted data that is stored in the magnetic strip. They're not connected to any network or anything else.
You are afforded basic human rights by the constitution while in our country. We don't have to let you stay in our country. If anything this move is better for immigrants than some of the other proposed solutions, because they have to be caught breaking another law, as opposed to simply having their ID broadcasting with an RF chip. Sure, our immigration laws can be silly, but part of that is due to the fact there is no one litmus test to tell who's a productive member of society and who isn't. In my mind, we should actively be seeking out illegals who are working in this country not to deport them, but to grant them visas and begin collecting taxes from them. I know, it's simplistic given the wages many of them earn, but I have a hard time divorcing the right to live in the USA with the responsibility to pay taxes. I guess I believe in "pay to play".
Never confuse volume with power.
Here's some more direct info on the card from Minnesota DVS.
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
+5 Insightful!
Driver's Licenses were intended to be exactly that, a license or permit that demonstrates that one is legally permitted to drive. They happened to have a photo of the person on them . . . how this became an official government identification card was something of an accident. Private groups started using the driver's license as ID to cash checks becuase it provided some level of photo identification . . . but there was no common standard for confirming identity when applying for a license. Some states were very slack about this (For example, in Virginia until recently, one only needed a form from a lawyer asserting one's identity with no official documents whatsoever.)
It's good to see that states are recognizing that the driver's license is a de facto identification card in the US and they are taking counterfeiting seriously.
If you look at the licenses from Maryland and Texas, it becomes apparent they've been doing this for some time. In fact, pretty much all the states use the same magnetic strip you find in credit cards. Texas keeps track of your hunting / fishing / whatever licenses that way as well (though for some odd reason they have a separate physical license also issued).
Going to a "digital watermark" does strike me as odd given that and I expect the people suggesting this is going to RFID tech are probably right.
No Big Brother aspect to it now, but given the trends in Europe which appear to be heading towards more and more surveillance, I expect it will lead to that in future.
Holography and RFID make the document harder to counterfeit. Some biometric information, like the color of the person's eyes, height, weight, etc., is useful in establishing that the bearer is the person belonging to the ID.
Nonetheless, none of this is worth a whit if the ID is issued fraudulently. Here in Virginia, we had a problem with DMV clerks issuing driver's licenses to anyone for the price of a bribe, as well as notaries public who would vouch for anyone for a fee. The licenses themselves were machine-readable, with some kind of special seal on them that would be difficult to counterfeit, and included the information I mentioned above. A policeman could be reasonably sure the driver is the person in the photo. But, at bottom, because the controls on the license issuing process were bad, and the identification accepted by DMV was so weak, it was possible for anyone to get a real Virginia license or ID card that would be acceptable as genuine anywhere.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
did tha gubbment tell ya that ? Or are you just talking out your ass AGAIN ?
Ah, but if you repeat it enough, then it becomes truth
wanted: one clever sig,apply within
here in india, the government is implementing a system where the number of plates of cars will have engine's chasis number written with laser tips and invisible to the naked eye so that it becomes easy to detect stolen cars...
I've just strangely looked at the hardware. There's no connection to anything but power. Hell, I've been to bars that have their bouncers with handheld versions of these things.
But I'm sure they actually sync with the master government DB every night!
For the first time I actually have something to contribute. As an attorney in Minneapolis who works with mostly undocumented immigrants (illegal immigrants) I think i should add a couple of details to this.
1) Minneapolis has an ordinace preventing police from asking about a persons immigration status, unless that status is a part of another crime. (so this means at a traffic stop they can _not_ ask you about your status) There are two reasons behind this law. One reason the city passed this law is to encourage immigrants to feel safe and comfortable with city police, to report crimes, call for help, not leave the scene ect. However the primary reason for the law is that federal law gives sole jurisdiction over immigration matters to federal law enforcement. That means that even without the Minneapolis ordinace the local police can't enforce immigration law. Just like the Immigration officers can't arrest you for speeding or running a red light.
In Minnesota you can not get a license if you are an undocumented (illegal) immigrant. And an estimated 60,000 undocumented immigrants live here. Right now they either have no IDs or occasionly an ID from their home country - and these are often difficult to validate or even read if not in english.
A few of the main reasons people push to give undocumented immigrants license are 1) becuase that way they will have ID and police/banks/hospitals/ect will know who they are 2) they will have to pass the drivers test if they want to get an ID and that will encourage many (not all) to learn the traffic rules 3) once they get a drivers license they will be able to get car insurance 4) terrorists have enough resources and money to get IDs other places, so this law has little impact on well organized terrorists.
Alberta (Canada) came out with a new driver's licence a few years ago. It was quite a step forward from the traditional print-it-off-on-paper-then-laminate-it licence. Check it out:
c urity.h tml
a tures_f lash.html
http://www3.gov.ab.ca/gs/driverslicence/
"An original. Just like you." Glad my taxes went towards picking that. Probably had a committee set up and daily meetings for 3 months to come up with it.
Security features used on the card:
http://www3.gov.ab.ca/gs/driverslicence/se
Picture of the card:
http://www3.gov.ab.ca/gs/driverslicence/fe
Are there any bars in your area where they don't store the fact that you've entered a bar every Friday night in a database? I'm from the Midwest, where I'll grant we're a little backwards, but haven't encountered this. And if that becomes the only way to get a drink out, I guess I'll have to drink at home, because it ain't happenin'.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
Or some other biometric unique identifier.
With the advent of more/cheaper biometric technology, would it not be worthwhile to actually stick the unique electronic data of your thumb print in the card and equip Police, credit card readers etc, with thumb scanners?
Personally I don't have an issue with being able to prove who I am when I need to. I imagine the crowd here will mostly think this is a bad idea.
This is nothing new. We have had the loon (state bird) on them many years ago. Now, we have the word "Minnesota" instead, same kind of thing. The loon looks better and will be harder to fake than a word (ever see a loon?)
For a long time there as been a 2D barcode
I think the state bird should have been the moskeeto; that is the thing people remember and see a lot of in MN.
YES it can. I live in MN. WE've had this for years, so now its going back to being a loon instead of the word "minnesota". The 2D barcode was always on there anyway.
Minor revisions are no big deal. The "Minnesota" was harder to see and easier to fake. A loon will be much harder. Basically, if you've ever trashed an old MN card, Its just a plastic card with a protective film over it---the film has the 'watermark' on it.
I've seen the "Minnesota" ones come out ok on some clear sticker run thru an ink jet. Its easy to spot but people at a bar carding you will not look that close when they just notice the "watermark" at a glance. The loon will help a little...but not a lot.
The all barcodes are VISUAL and can be copied. Faking them is another matter... Which is why your age is on them... You'd have to know how to make 2D barcodes with a fake age...
I do not know if it was ever encrypted---probably not, since we've had them for so many years. Perhaps now they will.... but probably in something weak.
Why should I be tarred with the epithet loon merely because I am from Minnesota?
(halibut owners need not apply)
Lump lingered last in line for brains, and the ones she got were sorta rotten and insane.
"It includes a reflective image (of a loon) that appears to float above and below the card when the license is tilted."
They're putting reflective images of Howard Dean on all Minnesota drivers' licenses?
Yes, I've had it done in both states.
sigs, as if you care.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2004/ 101204nationalid.htm
US adopts National ID: Homeland Security Now In charge of Regulations for all US States Drivers Licenses and Birth Certificates
Jonathan Wheeler | December 10 2004
In a chilling act more reminiscent of the now defunct Soviet Union or the Nazi regime of Adolph Hitler, the United States Congress passed legislation yesterday that requires the States to surrender their regulatory rights over driver?s licenses and birth certificates to The Department of Homeland Security.
The massive US Intelligence Reform Bill weighed in at over 3,000 pages and though unread by individual Members of either the House or Senate nevertheless passed all of the legislative hurdles needed in order to become law.
President Bush lobbied hard for these provisions, only objecting when Senator Sensenbrenner attempted to require these same provisions for illegal aliens but which the President opposed. This provision was dropped from the final bill.
Beginning in 2005, the Department of Homeland Security will issue new uniformity regulations to the States requiring that all Drivers Licenses and Birth Certificates meet minimal Federal Standards with regard to US citizen information, including biometric security provisions.
Added to currently existing Federal Laws and Supreme Court rulings American citizens when born will be issued a Social Security Number that will be included on their Birth Certificates, along with DNA biometric markers. All birth certificates will also be registered in a Federal Government database maintained by the Department of Homeland Security. No child will be allowed enrollment to schools or be entitled to either State of Federal Government benefits programs without first presenting a certified Homeland Security registered Birth Certificate.
Drivers Licenses will also contain DNA biometric markers and include the holders Social Security Number and be required for receiving and applying for all State and Federal benefits programs. Previous Supreme Court rulings have also upheld State and Federal Law Enforcement authorities right to request Identification from any American citizen, for any reason and at any time as not being violations of their, the citizens, constitutionally protected rights.
Major Banks and credit card companies have applauded the adoption of a National ID system as being important to counter fraud and increasing instances of identity theft. National ID cards with biometric markers will eliminate them from having to issue Credit and Debit cards, which for the first time in US history have surpassed the usage of checks and cash. Utilizing The Department of Homeland Securities centralized federal database, Banks and credit card companies will only require the presentation of a citizens Driver?s License to make purchases as all of the persons financial information, including credit and cash balances, will already be known in ?real time?. (The combining of Homeland Security and Banking databases on citizen?s balances and purchases, along with their past and present purchasing information, has been allowed under previous Federal Laws including the Patriot Act.)
Also included in this bill is a law to require The Department of Homeland Security to establish a separate ID system for citizens to use prior to boarding airplanes, and which is eerily reminiscent of the Soviet and Nazi regimes dreaded Internal Passport.
Never before in our history have the words of Benjamin Franklin been so correct when he stated: "people willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both".
Today, December 9, 2004 will be one of those moments in time that future historians will look back on and pin point as being the day that the United States of American, and as it was founded by its forefathers, ceased to exist.
http://tinyurl.com/globalwarmingisascam
Link to photo of new license
Bla bla, tinfoil hat, bla bla, black helicopters, bla bla New World Order, bla bla Illuminati, bla bla bla.
The US Federal Reserve has just announced a new space-age digital holographic RFID watermarking scheme to prevent currency counterfeiting. The technology will be used exclusively on US $1 bills (the most frequently counterfeited), and cost approximately $35 per bill to implement.
"In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user. You've got your own newsgroup, alt.total.loser." -Weird Al
I wonder if bar owners who bought these scanners realize they've been sold a bunch of snake oil. All they do is read the 3D barcode or mag stripe on the license. Forging this information would be the easiest aspect of making a fake ID. You can get free software that creates these codes. That, combined with a little analysis of valid licenses would be enough to figure out the encoding system and make your own. The scanners could only detect a very poorly made fake ID, which a trained bouncer or bartender should be able to spot anyway. But I guess these things make the bar owners feel better, not to mention if a minor were caught in the bar it would help the owner if they can show that they made every reasonable effort to keep minors out.
You may want to investigate this brand-new technology called "Wireless".
Maybe I am wrong but isn't the date of birth already on the license? Why is that "secret" security data that would get embedded in the LOOON...? j
Sure, 20 years ago I <cough> knew some people who might have made fake Pennsylvania driver's licenses in order to purchase liquor. Back in those days the license was nothing but a Polaroid, very easy to clone. But when the states started going to those funny reflective laminations then cloning became a losing proposition (not that it was particularly hard to duplicate those, either, but it was even harder to make them look bad enough to be real).
Even when it was really easy to fake a license it was more or less a toss-up as to whether to make the license itself or the supporting documentation. For more than a decade now the easiest way to get a fake license (so I hear) is to print up the supporting docs and go get a real one. Way easier. They give out driver's licenses like candy on Halloween, after all.
This kind of fraud is certainly commonplace around colleges, but I find it hard to get worked up over some kids getting hold of alcohol. (It's pathetic that our drinking age is 21 yet the driver's license age is 16 -- that is a recipe for disaster. If anything, the two should be switched.) In a traffic stop the police call it in, in which case the computer wouldn't know about a false ID and it'd be obvious what's going on -- no matter if the ID is a fancy thing or just a slip of paper. Heck, they don't even need the physical driver's license anymore in most places.
So I figure the theory here is that it's for preventing identity theft (eg cashing checks in someone else's name -- although the reliance on driver's licenses, obtained via privilege rather than right, for that process is a rant in and of itself) and that doesn't seem like it's worth a lot of ID technology investment either.
I suspect that many pour misguided souls think that harder-to-fake driver's licenses would stop something like 9/11, in which case I would point out that the 9/11 hijackers had fraudulently obtained real driver's licenses, just like the college kids do. They were legitimate so far as the system knew.
Until they get around to fixing the lack of any real identity check during the process of applying for a license, not an easy or inexpensive thing to do, all these technologies are worthless.
jim frost
jimf@frostbytes.com
Don't like that cop reading your new RFID license to print a ticket out? Microwave the license when you get it, baby!
It says 'loon' not intelligent former presidential candidate.
Obviously they are making a veiled reference to Pres Bush (or Terry McAuliffe).
PA licenses have had reflective holograms over their licenses since at least 1997 when I got mine.
You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
I can tell you this is going to be great for my biz, all of my old customers will need new docs.
Um, no. Many of them had real, VALID IDs.
Immigrant Americans (i.e. every American citizen alive today, whose family immigrated here sometime within the last couple hundred years or so) have continued to live up to the reputation which they created early on with the native Americans: "white man speak with forked tongue".
On the one hand, tens of millions of illegal aliens are welcomed into menial jobs throughout the country: from farm labor to maid work to nannies. Ordinary people employ them, as well as companies. You even get illegals doing not so menial work, like tech contracting. Illegal aliens collectively form an essential part of the economy.
On the other hand, the INS (or whatever it's called nowadays) is the most dysfunctional federal agency of them all, and it's not just the agency's fault - it's a function of the national schizophrenia in which cheap labor is desperately needed, but the fiction needs to be maintained that not anyone who wants to can come here to work. Quotas for immigrants aren't even close to realistic in terms of what the economy needs - you could eliminate all the legal immigration and the economy would continue to function just fine, the legal immigration is really just there for show at this point. You couldn't do the same with the illegal immigration.
So, you ignorant anti-immigration types out there (and you are anti-immigration, if all you support is the current legal immigration system which is just for show, and a poor show at that), just keep on with your little fantasies about the way life works in the imaginary U.S. of A. that you live in, while the rest of us live in the real world which you don't understand. The difference is between the two is that the real world isn't going to go away, whereas your fantasies will become harder and harder to sustain as long as you continue to refuse to acknowledge your national addiction to cheap labor supplied by illegal aliens.
security data such as date of birth
Apparently my personal secure date of birth has been stolen. I am almost certain it was reused by someone else. How can I obtain another one instead?
There you are, staring at me again.
I'm an illegal alien.
Your economy will collapse with out us.
Well, there goes my great bar trick of being able to guess the first 4 characters of your drivers license (The first 4 characters are the result of a soundex function). Good times. Won a lot of drinks that way.
BTW, from the same page on that site....the hologram is "visible only under ultraviolet flight." What the hell is an ultraviolet FLIGHT?
As to all the posts about how this is old news and other states have holograms:
If you actually read the article it says that the loon floating above and below the card is not a hologram it's a new technology designed by 3M which has *only* been used on Australian passports. That's why this is news.
"Bla bla, tinfoil hat, bla bla, black helicopters, bla bla New World Order, bla bla Illuminati, bla bla bla."
Bla Bla I trust my government. bla bla bla My government always looks out for me. bla bla bla I am a good citizen officer of course you can search my house. bla bla bla The government is you friend, trust the government.
Sheep......
bah willing slave.
"Sure, they'll have some of your info digitally imprinted on it, but who cares? It wont be abused."
I'll call BS on this poster. He's a hypocrite. Allow me to demonstrate.
Please publish your Drivers License info here on Slashdot. Include all the info which the RFID broadcasts.
Heh. That won't be the last we hear from this idiot RavenWork, but at least he won't be able to dispute that he's a misinformed idiot and a hypocrite. LOL
About 13 years ago (~1991), there were a couple of Butler students who made fake ID's out of their dorm room. What they used was a large Illinois DL background with a hole to put your head through for the picture. One of the underage kids got caught with the fake DL at a bar and ended up ratting on the Butler students. The police raided the dorm room and then notified the Illinois Secretary of State (who administers motor vehicle functions) even though the crime has occured in Indiana. The IL SOS sent one of their police cars to Indiana to pickup those involved and took them back to IL to be prosecuted. The students were charged with felonies. They also faced charges in Indiana as well.
"The information would be readable only through a computerized scanner, which law enforcement officers could carry."
I don't think there is a big demand for counterfeiting driver's licenses for things other than driving a car and buying alcohol under age.
I think what we are really talking about here is a national ID card.
I am wondering what kind of watermark algorithm is implmented there? Is it a fragile watermark or robust watermark?
I have a great idea that is 1) cheaper than hi-tech ID cards, 2) more effective than hi-tech ID cards, 3) more palatable for anyone concerned with personal rights:
QUIT AMASSING DATABASES ON CITIZENS AND CUSTOMERS.
Identity thieves can't steal it if it's not being artificially created.
+++ATHZ 99:5:80
ok, you're right! All these places have devices with GPRS connections to the super huge government tracking DB that tracks everyone who has their licenses scanned.
Yawn... this is getting stupid.
Shit just what we need another device to track us in the complete absence of either a coherent process that controls how they are handed out in the first place AND any sort of legislative brakes on the data that is embedded on it or what data its usage gathers.
"Interesting too is that Gayle Elizabeth Sample was born in 1958 and is under 18 (birthdate is in red)"
If under 18, "the date of the 18th birthday" will appear in red. Red birthdate means nothing.
But I guess these things make the bar owners feel better, not to mention if a minor were caught in the bar it would help the owner if they can show that they made every reasonable effort to keep minors out.
exactly, for the owner of any establishment that serves alcohol this is manna from heaven. Get sued for serving alcohol to a minor and you not only get to join the company that made the reader a co-tortfeasor in order to spread the cost, you get to turn around and sue the company for anything you do lose for detrimental reliance on their product. However, as a lowly 1L I could be wrong. 2L's and 3L's feel free to critique.
In addition, once this is hooked to a database the next step is to feed in what people order. You now have a legal record of who drank what, how much, and when. I know, I know, people will switch drinks, etc. However, bar owners will have strong incentive to keep their records as accurate as possible. I know, I know, no one is going to drink where their drinking habits are recorded, ect. I disagree, the "industry" will spin it to make it sound "cute & fuzzy" while throwing in a points system to reward customers. Besides, most bar slugs don't care.
I believe I have solved for n in the n:???, n+1:profit! slashdot wealth paradigm. n: hook to database.
between the greater and lesser infinities sleep the dreams undreamt
Give 'em some re-tooled VISA credit card readers, then they can swipe the card's mag strip. You know, those mag strips that have been around FOR A QUARTER OF A CENTURY!?!?! OOhhh..digital watermarks! Wonder how much some a-hole MIT grad ripped off the minnesota DOT to bullshit that job through.
You're a few years off. See New Deal for when "the United States of American, and as it was founded by its forefathers, ceased to exist."
I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
I got mine a few months ago when I moved. The temporary license they give you while you wait for you new one to be mailed to you is ridiculous. It's just a piece of paper with your name on it, so you can't even go for a pint if you get ID'd because the piece of paper is not good enough.
Why don't they just send your new license to the registry and then you can go exchange your old one for the new one when it arrives?
the people that established the US (while their concept of "people" was limited) believed that the rights we enjoy devolve to all - only we decided to implement them. If those rights don't exist for all, then they may eventually not exist for us (if they aren't inherent to being human but dependent on gov't, the gov't can take those freedoms away at will, which is why we are here in the first place). While I don't agree with Iraq (and don't trust W), the concept invoked by W of helping others to obtain freedom is not a bad idea, and may be the best defense of our own freedoms.
Illegal immigrants do pay taxes (sales tax, for starters) but can't use the benefits that money pays for - thus they may be a net gain, not a net loss. If you were looking for people who stay here but contribute nothing, there are many with no other justification other than place of birth for whom the right to stay here is included. While they generate many of the same difficulties as illegal immigrants, they consume lots of services, which makes such people almost certainly a net loss in terms of revenue. Some corporations act similarly, offshoring their headquarters to avoid tax here while reaping the benefits of a workforce, an infrastructure, and a financial system for which they did not pay. If you want "pay to play", then illegal immigration may not be the best place to start.
I think the problem with illegal immigration is that people who don't have any of the duties to maintain the society and the political system but who enjoy its freedoms may not recognize what those freedoms cost; of course, that could be said to be true of many of those with US citizenship as well...
Well, I live in Minnesota, and before we cursed with the current governor this was a really nice place to live. Anyway, January 2 I have to go get a new license (Mine is about to expire, so I have no choice). So I would like to find out if it does have a RFID. Anyone know how I could check, or want to help me find out. Until I know for sure, I think I am going to wrap my license in tin foil.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
I was thinking about this recently, although in the context of using social security numbers for account numbers for things like bank accounts, schools, etc.
My question is this: Are the benefits gained greater than the losses? I haven't been able to think of a benefit that is so great that it justifies being treated like a criminal. So I guess we need to ask what is gained by having computer-scannable driver's licenses. I don't think that the average person gains anything. It's the police that gain from something like this.
Are counterfeit driver's licenses a life-threatening problem? Are they such a problem that any cop needs to be able to verify all my vital stats at the flip of a switch? If this is all just to fight terrorism than I'm just not buying it.
Stock ticker dmrce.
Oh yeah, the e on the end means they are on the verge of getting delisted from Nasdaq. Seems they are having a difficult time with their quarterly earnings reports.
All drivers licenses I've ever seen, even the old paper ones, have had RFID.
You just hit them with RF in the 700 to 400 nm range and they broadcast your ID.
I'll be marketing a special line of wallets next year that are specially designed to block those wavelengths. You can preorder them now for $250.
-b.
This is new to me...I didn't get my SS# till we did it in a business/typing class in about 8th or 9th grade...
What about people who have religious reasons NOT to have a SS#.."the mark" argument, I'd thought that you could refuse to have your child get an SS#...and that they never did have to unless they chose to. One of those you can stay out, but, once in...always in the system.
I had heard from friends who had kids that the hospitals tried to pressure them to register their babies with SS...but, didn't know it was required by law...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Yes, folks can refuse to register their babies but if they want them to be able to.. buy, sell, travel, work and excercise all those other "privileges" our loving Gov. grants us they will have to get the number (and the ID) eventually.
http://tinyurl.com/globalwarmingisascam
...Beginning in 2005, the Department of Homeland Security will issue new uniformity regulations to the States requiring that all Drivers Licenses and Birth Certificates meet minimal Federal Standards with regard to US citizen information, including biometric security provisions...
Because the federal government now controls the universal standard for Drivers Licences.
Its clear that the house should never pass a bill with more than 10 pages; these provisions were buried in a 3000 page bill, which no legislator read before voting.
Each congressman should be forced to read every page of the bills that they sign into law, and they should be made to sign each page indicating that they hare read the page.
Then again, no one in america cares about any of this, and for certain, at least 59,054,087 people will think that its a good idea.
ATH0 Bitcoin: 1DnwFLXczVZV8kLJbMYoheUrpqHesjxrSi
Assuming you don't have one of those goofy copiers with built-in anti-counterfeiting support, how many people are going to accept payment with money that feels like copier paper instead of like the hard-to-duplicate, hard-to-find kind of paper they use in currency?
Clear, Dark Skies
Well, I thought the kids (not registered as described above) could just get a special tax id, much like and EIN...and thus, pay taxes..be legal..but, not have to pay or be involved with the SS system....??
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I don't know.. CONFERENCE REPORT TO ACCOMPANY S. 2845 - INTELLIGENCE REFORM AND TERRORISM PREVENTION ACT OF 2004 Exclusive to Libertythink.com, this is the Nov. 20 draft of the 9/11 police state bill (also known as "intelligence reform" or "The 9/11 Commission Recommendations Implementati on Act.")
http://tinyurl.com/globalwarmingisascam
Not knocking the technology involved, which I'm sure is very spiffy and all, but this is dumb.
Anyone who really wants a fake ID will still be able to get one by buying it from an unscrupulous state employee.
Only now of course, since the ID being purchased will be one considered "nearly impossible to counterfeit" the item in question will be above suspicion.
The only thing this really does is weaken an already weak system.
remember the wisdom of Mahatma Gandhi: If enough peasants die horribly, someone will probably notice
This is part of what I read from the Act itself. It seems to say it wants to improve enumeration of SS at birth programs...but, doen't say it is by a law a requirement that you are enumerated at birth.
IANAL...but, does seem that way as stated..but, there may be another law on this. Is new to me tho....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Roads, they use. Also, sewers and utilities (although only implicitly through whatever housing they have - and they pay for them, also implicitly). The military protects them - since they occupy US territory. Police - not unless they commit a crime - if you're here illegally, you're unlikely to call the police to report a robbery, because they'll ask for lots of info you don't have or which will get you sent home. Same with fire. Hospitals are the major item that illegal immigrants will use (and the major cost), and they're the main cost for legal residents as well.
If lack of contribution to society is the determinant of who should stay and who should go, there are a lot of others who need to leave based on economic contributions in addition to or even before illegal immigrants.
You may be correct.
I think we agree more than disagree.
My point is that regardles of the legal details the end result is that if you don't have the number and the card you are a non person. If the legal details are not in place now, wait for patriot III.
Next comes the chip...
NSF report on merging humans and technology. The hive mind is mentioned. (PDF)
They want to chip us all. These things can do more than identify you. The new models can track you and RECEIVE transmissions. Don't take the chip.
http://tinyurl.com/globalwarmingisascam
There was some college kid that was printing out fake licenses and selling them. Well they were pretty good fakes and the police finally tracked the guy down. The impounded his computer and found the complete list of all the people he had made licenses for. The tv news teams put out the word that the police were waiting for the people to turn themselves in and turn over their fake licenses. I woundered if all the people turned themselves in and if they even got extra people turn themselves in. I can't find the link to the article. Sorry.
I realy don't want the San Francisco Pigs to get these. They are incompetant as is. What I DO want is not to be maid to feel like a criminal when I go to take my tests, better tests, HELL better cars TO take the driving and written test. The last time I took a driving test the DMV here in NorCal gave me a POS Jallopy.
Put some boobies on your drivers' licenses!
There is a guy in my office who is convinced that the security built into a new product will never be broken. I'm a cynic and believe that there will never be a technology that can not be broken. Any stories or arguments about security technology not living up to its promise would be appreciated.
A digital fingerprint? If you mean a barcode i can see that, but I dont understand how a digital "fingerprint" could be applied unless the actual physical "stuff" of the license is altered at printing. I know here in New Jersey, our new Licenses were rumored to have microchips in them, however, I'm pretty sure that idea was kyboshed by the speculation of "what happens if someone put their license in a microwave?". Besides that, the thickness of our licenses are WAY to think for any kind of flashrom device that I know if. The thickness of the license is approximately 1-2mm, and the largest SMT IC I know of is much thicker than that. It's just not possible!