Chief of eBay's Indian Site Arrested, Released

+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 21:16 · Score: 5, Funny

someone's gotta have it

Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by kaedemichi255 · 2004-12-21 21:32 · Score: 5, Funny

why don't you check suprnova.org?
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by FoolishBose · 2004-12-21 21:46 · Score: 2, Funny

Good idea. Oh wait....damn you!
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by maclar · 2004-12-21 23:12 · Score: 2, Funny

Just 117 seconds??
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 23:39 · Score: 0

Just 117 seconds??

Teenage boy, of course he can't hold his load...
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by ncaHammer · 2004-12-22 01:10 · Score: 1

Google sucks, none found, so you have to sell your soul to MS
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:47 · Score: 0

I did a web search and found it here. You might wanna create a torrent or a mirror before this gets /.tted.
Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with it. I just did a google search after reading this article and it showed this link. Who knows if it is the legit one...
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:53 · Score: 1, Informative

Sorry, no torrent, but a quick search in emule resulted in this hash.
Absolutely not verified, btw.
ed2k://|file|RKP_CLIP1.avi|2131968|8F07FAF47 D985BF 4827F3E43EFF7ADCA|/
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by wikdwarlock · 2004-12-22 03:27 · Score: 1

check here: RKP_clip1.avi.

--

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer." -Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2004-12-22 03:42 · Score: 1, Flamebait

And I for one will metamoderate that +5 down as soon as possible.
A 16 year old girl was filmed having sex without her consent. Thats tantamount to rape. Hell in much of the world (including many states here in the US) that is rape by definition. Its one thing to defend Bajaj, but to condone this is unacceptable.
I know this post was meant to be a joke, but some things are not funny. Rape being one of them.

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 03:45 · Score: 0

um i do agree it is a serious crime, but it is not rape. rape is sex with out consent. the sex was consentual (well maybe not legally depending on the laws regarding minors but she still chose to do it).

now the taping and distribution is illegal and morally reprehensible, it is not even close to rape.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2004-12-22 03:48 · Score: 1

Remember I said tantamount to rape.
The distribution of the tape is taking the act to a level where the girl did not give her consent. Imagine if a girl gave consent for sex and then the guy strapped her down and gave her the full S&M treatment (against her will). Did the fact that she consented to sex mean she chose to participate in the S&M?

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 05:25 · Score: 0

Noting your .sig, SHUTTHEFUCKUP! You obviously have issues, or an agenda, or baggage, or all of the above. Take your sorry, sexist, overreacting ass down the road. (You DO know that you can be sexist without owning a dick, right?)
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by 10101001+10101001 · 2004-12-22 05:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

Would it be rape if a hidden captured a politician taking a bribe, be it in a string operation run by the police or by individuals? What if it was just a security camera? I've no idea how the law in India works, but in the US we have the standard of privacy protection from the *Government*. That means that places can't be forced to included security/hidden cameras in private spaces by the Government. But there's nothing to stop the Government from renting out a room, hiding cameras, then inviting you in to catch you commiting a crime. Nor is there anything to stop them using a camera out in public.

It's definitely nothing like a rape. It's possibly copyright infringement, depending on if one's likeness is copyrightable; that seems sort of crazy, going back to the above example of government corruption. It might be labelled child porn, though I've know idea if India law supports that. That's the only possible reasonable match for a crime. Whether there's a civil matter is another question.

Now, as for your example example, if a girl gives consent for sex, she's giving consent for sexual intercourse unless there's a reasonable context that she knows sex means S such a context would mean that they'd discussed in the past sex and S&M and agreed on it. There's also the point that if S&M was initiated against her will, she could/would disagree with it. So, in all probability she'd vocally disagree to the act which would remove any claim of consent.

On a more fundamental point, there's clearly a distinction between taking a photo of an act and committing an act itself; one is an independent act of recording energy, be it heat, light, or sound while the other is the physical contact of two individuals. If there was a verbal contract (ie, they agreed) that the act would not be recorded in some fashion, then she'd have a basis to sue him regardless of distribution. Just like a verbal contract could stop any distribution if she agreed to it being recorded. But without a verbal contract in place, there's no real basis to prevent the recording or distribution.

Now with all the legalize out of the way, what you're really talking about isn't rape but a loss of trust. While the girl almost certainly didn't make a verbal contract, she also almost certainly assumed that there was an implied agreement that the boy would not record then redistribute a recording of their private act. That's true for most people. But this loss of trust (and whatever embarrassment/humiliation comes out of it) happens in relationships that end all the time. To act like every single bit of heartbreak that occurs is a rape is to greatly diminish the perceived severity of rape. If India or US States wants to enact law to defined the legal qualifications for a relationship such that a list of things have to be explicitly allowed instead of explicitly disallowed, that's certainly a possibility. And at that time, I welcome the inclusion of a new collection of words or phrases to discribe such a situation in the criminal and civil context. But misusing a very serious word as rape to try to analogize the circumstance described does nothing but weaken the perceived inhumaneness of rape.

--
Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2004-12-22 06:13 · Score: 1

"Would it be rape if a hidden captured a politician taking a bribe, be it in a string operation run by the police or by individuals?"
There is nothing even remotely sexual in that instance, so no it would not.
"It's definitely nothing like a rape."
Do I have to define the word "tantamount" for you?
"Now, as for your example example, if a girl gives consent for sex, she's giving consent for sexual intercourse unless there's a reasonable context that she knows sex means S such a context would mean that they'd discussed in the past sex and S&M and agreed on it."
Would you mind rewording that? It doesn't make much sense. For the record, the S in S&M does not stand for sex. Furthermore, the girl in the example had not consented to S&M, that was the point of the example.
"There's also the point that if S&M was initiated against her will, she could/would disagree with it. So, in all probability she'd vocally disagree to the act which would remove any claim of consent."
In the India example the video was by all acounts I've heard against her will. She couldn't vocally disagree because she was not aware what he was doing. For our analogy, imagine that in the S&M example one of the first things the guy does is gag her, thus preventing her from vocally disagreeing with anything.
"But this loss of trust (and whatever embarrassment/humiliation comes out of it) happens in relationships that end all the time."
This is a bit more than someone cheating on their girlfriend or breaking a promise to do something. The girl was sexually exploited.
"But misusing a very serious word as rape to try to analogize the circumstance described does nothing but weaken the perceived inhumaneness of rape."
I guess I do have to define the word "tantamount" for you. I guess I just thought it was a commonly known word.
tantamount
adj.
Equivalent in effect or value: a request tantamount to a demand.

Not "like" or "a type of" or "the same as".

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by notthe9 · 2004-12-22 06:21 · Score: 1

A 16 year old girl...

For the record, the AP article says she's 17.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2004-12-22 06:26 · Score: 1

True, I would be inclined to trust the other account though. It sounds like either they got the ages mixed up (the other account has the guy being 17) or at some point during all of this she had a birthday.

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by skink1100 · 2004-12-22 06:40 · Score: 1

> tantamount
> adj.

> Equivalent in effect or value: a request >tantamount to a demand.

And videotaping a sex act without a partner's consent is not "equivalent in effect or value" to raping them. It is not even close, which was the point of the person accusing you (correctly) of misusing the word "rape". Fine, you've defined "tantamount". Now sit down and really think about how much worse it would be to have sex forced on you versus being recorded in the act without your consent.

S
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2004-12-22 06:49 · Score: 1

The point is she was forced to do something sexual (participate in a pornographic videotape) against her will. Could it have been worse? Yes, and I never said it couldn't. That doesn't change the fact that she was sexually exploited.

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by 10101001+10101001 · 2004-12-22 09:00 · Score: 1

"Now, as for your example example, if a girl gives consent for sex, she's giving consent for sexual intercourse unless there's a reasonable context that she knows sex means S such a context would mean that they'd discussed in the past sex and S&M and agreed on it."

Would you mind rewording that? It doesn't make much sense. For the record, the S in S&M does not stand for sex. Furthermore, the girl in the example had not consented to S&M, that was the point of the example.

The '&M;' for S&M (where it just says S) was cut off; I should have looked more closely in the preview. To reword it, sex means sexual intercourse with no other context. If they'd done oral sex before, it might mean that. If they discussed S&M, it might mean that. Without giving a context, your example is really bad in that sex might mean S&M. But assuming it doesn't, then she never gave consent to it.

In the India example the video was by all acounts I've heard against her will. She couldn't vocally disagree because she was not aware what he was doing. For our analogy, imagine that in the S&M example one of the first things the guy does is gag her, thus preventing her from vocally disagreeing with anything.

That's not a valid analogy. Even while gaged she could resist. Resistance would be a strong indicator that she wasn't giving consent. Not trying to confirm consent would be tantamount to rape. On the other hand, recording a consensual act isn't an act performed on a person. There's no claim that the camera was emitting a light that was blinding the person or radiation that was harming them. Instead, the complaint is that reflected light from an outside source (probably a lamp) was being captured by one person of another person. There's no physical harm in that.

And while I'm at it, in reply to another post about your cut/pasting in the definition of tantamount:

The point is she was forced to do something sexual (participate in a pornographic videotape) against her will.

You're wrong. She participated in the sexual act willingly (the oral sex). There's nothing sexual about videotaping someone. Therefore, there's no reasonable basis to claim that the recording itself is somehow a forced sexual act. So, there's no equivalency in effect or value.

Could it have been worse? Yes, and I never said it couldn't. That doesn't change the fact that she was sexually exploited.

Was she sexually exploited? Possibly. But at least where I live there's only a punishment for child exploitation--blatant prostitution too, though I can't understand the rational behind that; I state blatant since it's perfectly legally to marry someone solely for money under the understanding that lineage must be created to continue the marriage. All pornography can be claimed to be exploitative. So can just about anything you do, as you're likely undervaluing yourself. It's accepted that adults are old enough that they should be liable for the consequences of this; it's not as well accepted that the same is true for sexually active teenagers.

Now, at 16 she's possibly still considered a child (even though she can legally have sex), so it's possible that the exhibition or distribution of the video is illegal. Of course, that really doesn't make sense since legally being allowed to have sex would imply that you're aware enough of all the possible consequences to be responsible for them.

Having stated all this, I would like to point out that self-exploitation is not at all like rape. The foundation of rape is about violence acted upon a person by another involving sex against their will. There was no violence and there was consent towards the sex act. It seems strange to me that you'd claim that a violent nonwillful act and a nonviolent willful act would have equivalent effect. Almost every single lawbook would disagree (eg. commiting violent homicide vs commiting non-violent suicide).

So, feel free to complain that she was exploited. There might even be a law to punish the boy, his classmates, and the guy on ebay who started the auction. But please don't call it rape. Doing so does a disservice to all those who were truly raped.

--
Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 09:28 · Score: 0

She was asking for it.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 09:30 · Score: 0

She sounds like a dirty little whore to me.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 09:35 · Score: 0

Would it kill you to be polite, nwbvt?
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by fuck+nwbvt · 2004-12-22 09:42 · Score: 1

It would. If he weren't a dick, he wouldn't be Nick.
--
Sick of pompous windbags, especially those whose automatic defense mechanism is to lash out with bizarre and easily refuted accusations? Change "Karma Bonus" modifier to -1 penalty.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2004-12-22 09:50 · Score: 1

"Without giving a context, your example is really bad in that sex might mean S&M."
I apologize, I assumed you were intelligent enough to deduce from my post that she had not given consent to S&M. The intent of that post was to give an example of where someone can give consent for one act and then have it taken to a level they are not comfortable with, not for you to try to find creative loopholes.
"Resistance would be a strong indicator that she wasn't giving consent. "
While participating in S&M activities? Are you sure you understand what S&M means?
Nitpick all you want, just think of an example where she has no way of stating that she doesn't want to do this (as in the India example the girl had no way of telling the kid she didn't want a video of her all over the net because she didn't know about it).
"There's no physical harm in [recording someone having sex]."
Really? So you wouldn't mind if I secretly put a videocamera in your bathroom?
"There's nothing sexual about videotaping someone."
There is if the act being taped is sexual.
"But at least where I live there's only a punishment for child exploitation"
The fact that the girl in this case was a child, and the fact that at least in most states non-consentual voyeurism is considered a crime aside...
Just because something is legal doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with it. If in your state you are permitted to put secret video cameras in someone's bedroom doesn't mean you are not violating that person's rights.
"The foundation of rape is about violence acted upon a person by another involving sex against their will."
In some cases, yes. However, not always. Drugging a girl such that she is unable to refuse consent and then sleeping with her is considered rape, even though no violence was used.
"But please don't call it rape. "
Ok, I have now defined the word "tantamount" so you can no longer claim ignorance. From now on any accusation that I called the act rape will be regarded at a rather pathetic attempt at a strawman argument and pointed out as such.

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by crbowman · 2004-12-22 09:52 · Score: 1

She was not forced to do anything. Something was done with out her knowledge or consent. They two are not the same.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2004-12-22 09:55 · Score: 1

Ok, so if you slip a girl a roofie and then have sex with her you are not forcing her to do anything?

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 10:19 · Score: 0

At your own peril. The girl and boy both are 17, so it is kiddie porn.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by ClioCJS · 2004-12-22 10:30 · Score: 1

"There is if the act being taped is sexual."
I call bullshit. Not just on that statement but everything you've said. You are a disservice to those who have actually been raped.

--
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 10:42 · Score: 0

You made a post to slashdot about sex, without my consent, and tricked me into reading it. That is tantamount to rape and you belong in jail.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 10:46 · Score: 0

Roofies have the effect of physically restraining her, I'd like to see you do that with a videocamera, troll. Do you not understand that force requires force, or do we have to define force for you too?
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 11:07 · Score: 0

However, according to ageofconsent.com's chart, the age of consent is 16 in India, so it's probably legal in its country of origin. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by 10101001+10101001 · 2004-12-22 11:10 · Score: 1

"There's no physical harm in [recording someone having sex]."

Really? So you wouldn't mind if I secretly put a videocamera in your bathroom?

Of course I mind. I would also mind someone I respect insulting me. That doesn't mean it's physical harm. Physical harm involves contact of some kind, be it directly skin to skin or through some indirect physical (ie, matter or large amounts of energy) contact. Again, the video camera wasn't radioactive nor is there any indication that she was even being remotely blinded by it. Hence, there's no basis to claim physical harm.

"The foundation of rape is about violence acted upon a person by another involving sex against their will."

In some cases, yes. However, not always. Drugging a girl such that she is unable to refuse consent and then sleeping with her is considered rape, even though no violence was used.

This is another strawman example. Not refusing consent is not equivalent to consenting. The only point at which it is equivalent is when you've given consent already for some act. Furthermore, violence in this context means to do physical harm upon another. Physical harm can be simply touching. So, all aspects of rape are present.

"But please don't call it rape. "

Ok, I have now defined the word "tantamount" so you can no longer claim ignorance. From now on any accusation that I called the act rape will be regarded at a rather pathetic attempt at a strawman argument and pointed out as such.

Fine, please don't call it tantamount to rape. The effects of rape are not equivalent to that of exploitation or voyeurism. The effects of rape are much more profound than any recording of a consensual act. It saddens me that you think any meaningful equivalency can be drawn on the effects of rape.

--
Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2004-12-22 11:20 · Score: 1

"This is another strawman example. Not refusing consent is not equivalent to consenting. "
Yes, it is an example of a strawman. I never argued she was consenting. Thus your claim that I was is a strawman. Good job, but next time it would be appreciated if you were to just leave the strawmen out of your posts.
"Furthermore, violence in this context means to do physical harm upon another. Physical harm can be simply touching. So, all aspects of rape are present."
Playing with semantics in order to prove a point? Sorry, doesn't work. You know what I meant, don't pretend you don't.
"Fine, please don't call it tantamount to rape. The effects of rape are not equivalent to that of exploitation or voyeurism. The effects of rape are much more profound than any recording of a consensual act. It saddens me that you think any meaningful equivalency can be drawn on the effects of rape."
Both are actions in which one person is exploited against their will for the sexual gratification of another one. Thats all I meant by "tantamount", pretending I meant something else is a strawman as well.

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2004-12-22 11:23 · Score: 1

There is no point to arguing with you if you are going to be obtuse beyond belief. Goodbye.

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by fuck+nwbvt · 2004-12-22 11:41 · Score: 1

Jesus Christ, Nick. There's no shame in admitting that you misunderstood him. Your doing so would spare us the embarrassment of watching you blithely writing yourself into thickets of verbal undoings and squirming out via convenient misrepresentation. Neither of you are wrong, all right? Just let it die.
--
Sick of pompous windbags, especially those whose automatic defense mechanism is to lash out with bizarre and easily refuted accusations? Change "Karma Bonus" modifier to -1 penalty.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 11:48 · Score: 0

another copy here
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 12:34 · Score: 0

She loved it. And she loves all this attention even more.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 13:36 · Score: 0

another copy here

what's the codec plugin needed for this?
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 13:51 · Score: 0

That didn't deserve your karma bonus and you know it. Why do you persist?
--
Sick of pompous windbags, especially those whose automatic defense mechanism is to lash out with bizarre and easily refuted accusations? Change "Karma Bonus" modifier to -1 penalty.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-31 17:45 · Score: 0

In the India example the video was by all acounts I've heard against her will. She couldn't vocally disagree because she was not aware what he was doing.
No, she was obviously aware. He's holding the camera while she's doing it. And she's joking around.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by haruchai · 2005-01-06 04:08 · Score: 1

Nice try. The definition of "tantamount" includes the word EQUIVALENT - which means "equal" or "the same as".

In other words, YOU believe this to be rape, which is fine - that's your opinion but the "rather pathetic attempt at a strawman argument" falls squarely on your shoulders as you are using doublespeak to couch your meaning.

If you believe this to be rape, say so and don't backpedal.

--
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2005-01-06 10:37 · Score: 1

" Nice try. The definition of "tantamount" includes the word EQUIVALENT - which means "equal" or "the same as"."
Yeah, read one word in the definition and ignore the words surrounding it. Thats a great way to use the dictionary.

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by haruchai · 2005-01-06 13:53 · Score: 1

I read the definitions at dictionary.com prior to posting - just to be sure. If you like, I can paste them into a post for you.

People use words in many ways and what is said isn't always what is MEANT and vice versa.
In the many discussions and arguments I've had over the years on a variety of subjects, one constant is that those who like to use "tantamount" have always really meant to say that x IS y, not x is sorta like y or X is almost the same as Y

--
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2005-01-06 14:15 · Score: 1

"I read the definitions at dictionary.com prior to posting - just to be sure. If you like, I can paste them into a post for you."
So have I. It says equivilant in effect or value. Not necessarily the same. Other dictionaries have similar definitions. My personal favorite is from Cambridge: "being almost the same or having the same effect as, usually something bad: Her refusal to answer was tantamount to an admission of guilt."
In this case, I was referring to the fact that while she may have consented to one sexual act (the oral sex, which would have made it true rape) she did not consent to another sexual act (the distribution of a recording of that act).
"People use words in many ways and what is said isn't always what is MEANT and vice versa."
Are you trying to tell me what it was I meant to say?
"In the many discussions and arguments I've had over the years on a variety of subjects, one constant is that those who like to use "tantamount" have always really meant to say that x IS y, not x is sorta like y or X is almost the same as Y"
Well I hope you won those arguments because your foes had little grasp of the English language.

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by haruchai · 2005-01-06 14:51 · Score: 1

"Your personal favorite" - I'm beginning to understand you. The nice thing about definitions is that there are so many to choose from.

What, pray tell, is "your personal favorite" definition of rape?

--
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2005-01-06 17:20 · Score: 1

"The nice thing about definitions is that there are so many to choose from."
No one ever said the English language was not ambiguous.
"What, pray tell, is "your personal favorite" definition of rape?"
To engage in a physical sexual act (usually intercourse or sodomy) with someone without their (legal) consent.

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by haruchai · 2005-01-07 02:48 · Score: 1

Okay, well, I concur with your definition of rape but them, the broadcast of that video is not rape nor even tantamount to it.

Assuming that it was made or broadcast without her permission, then it's a betrayal of trust.
While many or most actual rapes involve a betrayal of trust, that element alone doesn't make it rape.

Also, your definition of rape offers an out for oral sex ( is that you, President Clinton? ) which is the only sexual activity depicted on that video.

--
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent by nwbvt · 2005-01-07 03:59 · Score: 1

"Okay, well, I concur with your definition of rape but them, the broadcast of that video is not rape nor even tantamount to it."
Once again, I know it wasn't rape, that is why I never said it was. I said it was tantamount to rape due to the fact that while he did not have sex with her without consent, he did perform an act with sexual overtones (the distribution of a video of her having sex) which she did not consent to.
" Also, your definition of rape offers an out for oral sex "
No it isn't. Oral sex is often included with sodomy. Furthermore, I said "usually intercourse or sodomy", that doesn't exclude other things.

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.

This is quite old by metlin · 2004-12-21 21:16 · Score: 4, Informative

Actually, India-GII - a mailing list/group of sorts which is a part of CPSR (Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility) has been discussing this for quite a while now.

Check out this month's archive.

Particularly, see the threads MMS saga has unexpected consequences and Mahesh Murthy sends you Release the CEO of eBay India (Baazee) - a travesty of cyber-law and e-commerce Petition .

People have been petitioning the release of Bajaj for a while, and this is going to have some very serious repurcussions, too.

Re:This is quite old by GoofyBoy · 2004-12-22 02:26 · Score: 2, Funny

Somehow "Free Bajaj" doesn't have the same feel to it.

--
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Re:This is quite old by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 08:38 · Score: 0

"Free Bajaj"
Where can I get mine?!

(For those who don't know, Bajaj is a manufacturer of home appliances, scooters and motorcycles).

My proposal by Ckwop · 2004-12-21 21:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

My proposal? Let people have their pornography. Sex is something for everyone and I really don't understand how cultures get so upset about it; after all, it is the most important human function.. our society is built on the foundations of sexual relationships. India may be a democracy but theres no point in democracy if you're no more free than you would be under a tyrant. Freedom is not the same as democracy.

Simon.

Re:My proposal by metlin · 2004-12-21 21:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

Sex is all fine and dandy, but you're ignoring the fact that this is the video of a girl which has been publicized without her consent.

While the arrest of Bajaj (the CEO) was wrong, I do not see why it was wrong on the part of the government to clamp down on the distribution of the video.

She shared her intimate moments with someone she trusted, and the jerk betrayed her. This is less about sex and more about privacy.
Re:My proposal by asliarun · 2004-12-21 21:29 · Score: 1

Although i agree with you in principle, in this case, the pornography that was peddled was that of minors performing sexual acts. In such a case, almost any country in the world would deem it illegal, much less India. Even if you discount the law of the land (IANAL, in any case), most people would consider peddling child porn as immoral in ANY country.
Re:My proposal by Suchetha · 2004-12-21 21:39 · Score: 5, Informative

india (and most of asia) is a dichotomy when it comes to sex. if you look at some of the south indian temples you;ll find LOTS of sex on the walls. si much so that the british flat out REFUSED to talk about the wonders you see there (i'm talking about the temples, not the sexual positions on their walls). that is why the northern states have more torist exposure than the southern (well the southern heat may have soemthing to do with it too)

there are tales of temples where women who couldn't have children would spend the night and the god would come down to them and miraculously impregnate them (umm yeah.. god.. right..)

i'm not even going to mention the kama sutra or the japanese and chinese pillow books.

most asian cultures were sexually very liberal. we are talking bastardy, social recognition given to courtesans, the whole works.

it is the western missionaries that brought sexual repression to the east. when the victorian missionaries showed up with their straitlaced attitudes, that was the end of the good times as far as most people were concerned.

since then the cultures have been holding on to this prudery while AT THE SAME TIME screwing around.

the east never had a sexual revolution like america did. its more of a gradual slide. and there are people who, like king canute, try to stem the tide by ordering it not to be.

atb

suchetha

--

learn from yesterday, plan for tomorrow, party tonight
or one out of three ain't bad
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 21:44 · Score: 2, Insightful
A factoid [in the actual latinate sense of the word]: distributing child pornography is immoral because creating child pornography usually requires the sexual abuse of a child. Not the case here. However, it begs a question: who owns the copyright to this? Whoever was operating the filming equipment?
1. Virus infects computer, WEBCAM TURN ON
2. Virus streams to remote "user"
3. Computer owner removes virus, shows webcam clip as evidence against virus writer
4. Virus writer sues for copyright infringement
Of course, the DMCA could never override a criminal investigation...
Re:My proposal by liangzai · 2004-12-21 21:54 · Score: 5, Interesting

it is the western missionaries that brought sexual repression to the east. when the victorian missionaries showed up with their straitlaced attitudes, that was the end of the good times as far as most people were concerned.

Not so. China had liberal attitudes toward sex before and under Tang (581-617), but thereafter declined into more social control. It has nothing to do with Christianity or westerners. Chinese people have always been sexually open, just that it is taboo talking about it. The Chinese prudence is on the surface and on the surface only. The same goes for most of Asia. Japan, although very influenced by the West, is probably the most extreme country in the world when it comes to sex. Yet there is prudence also in Japan.
The impact of Christianity in China is virtually none. This is fortunate.
Re:My proposal by adeydas · 2004-12-21 21:56 · Score: 1

you are mistaken. actually bajaj was arrested for violating the IT and technology act which states that distributing obsence material without proper licence is punishable. bazzee.com does not have the licence to sell pornography...
Re:My proposal by liangzai · 2004-12-21 22:01 · Score: 1

our society is built on the foundations of sexual relationships

Yeah, that's why your oppressive and tyrant government wants you to have one and only one spouse, because they want to control you.
In some liberal Arab countries, you can have as many spouses as you want. This is of course an irony, but you get the point. There is sexual control in all cultures, by law and by cultural tradition. Western girls who screw around don't face the death penalty, but they frequently are called names like "whore".
Your oppressive government also prevents you from fucking your dog or your horse. Why? The animals don't care, and you should be able to do what you feel is right for you, right?
Furthermore, your oppressive government has until very recently outlawed homosexuality. Still, there are troubles for some to get legally recognized as homo couples in your oppressive country.
Re:My proposal by Mycroft_VIII · 2004-12-21 22:02 · Score: 1

I think you answer your own question here, think about it:

"...I really don't understand how cultures get so upset about it..."
followed almost imediatly by " it is the most important human function.. our society is built on the foundations of sexual relationships."

I realize how easy it is to miss how contradictory those two segments are, so please don't think I'm beating up on you.
Sexual attitudes and mores are hammered in from day one almost and NOT having some blind spots from your cultures outlook would be abnormal.
("forgive him for he is a barbarian and thinks the customs of his tribe to be laws of nature" -poorly remember Shakespear)

The basic truth is that sex is one of our most powerfull drives and core insticts, it can even be argued that survival of the self is there to serve the drive to reproduce (the dead don't).
This is how a culture can get so wrapped up in anything related to it. When you combine the competition for it with the need to get along for group survival you create a dynamic that will tend to aproach some sort of equalibrium, but not necessarily one that is clear and logical. Add in the fact that influencing the sexuall lives of others can easily be a source of power, and that power tends to increase one's own sexuall situation and you have a recipie for a society that is sexually repressed in one way or another by virtue of the 'experts' or moral guardian or some such (ones with power of course). Just take a look at the major priest classes in any society and what most of thier 'religeous law' or equivalant controlls and regulates.
Just look at how many cultures and religeons do/did treat female sexuality, if she cheats or leaves him she's dead, other way around best she could hope for is 'divorce', if she wasn't blamed for his misbehaviour in some way. Heck even the concept of 'fidelity' as we know it has likely in part resulted from these forces (though there are sound evolutionary reasons for wanting fidelity out of your partner, but not for yourself).

Mycroft

--
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
Re:My proposal by sheriff_p · 2004-12-21 22:03 · Score: 1

That's a huge over-simplification of a pretty complex moral debate.

While I'm certainly not pro banning pornography, you have to bear in mind that like any form of media, it's going to exert some influence on its viewers.

Take images of degradation or abuse - even if they're staged, their existance, and, the connection the mind forges between those images and the mass of happy-chemicals your mind produces is going to give you one hell of a Pavlovian response - I don't think that's under much debate. And once you've established a grey area like this, where do you draw the line of what constitute degradation/abuse?

As for the point about our society being built on sexual relationships - absolutely. But I'd argue the ready availability of pornography actually takes away from them - try going without pornography for a month (clearly, afterall, this is something of a personal matter for you) and see the effect it has on your sex life.

+Pete

--
Score:-1, Funny
Re:My proposal by drsmithy · 2004-12-21 22:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

Even if you discount the law of the land (IANAL, in any case), most people would consider peddling child porn as immoral in ANY country.
A video of someone over the age of consent having consensual intercourse hardly qualifies as kiddie porn. Indeed, considering it such is a bit of an insult to children who were actually sexually abused.
Re:My proposal by idiotnot · 2004-12-21 22:20 · Score: 1

How much can you miss the mark?

This isn't about the tape.

It's about the mistreatment of a corporate executive due to activity that his company prohibits. The right to have sex falls somewhere behind personal freedom to travel, IMO.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 22:22 · Score: 0

Right. I'm as liberal as the next /.-er, but pornography is a notoriously gray area. What about:

- Sex with (or between) minors?

- Non-consensual sex (e.g., rape scenes)

- Availability of pornography to minors.

Every democracy needs to define the boundaries as they see fit, and every democracy does so differently.
Re:My proposal by roxtar · 2004-12-21 22:27 · Score: 2, Informative

Well first of all it is legal to have pornographic material on your computer in India, but it is not legal to trade porn (irony). The tape in question, is being seen in India, as not any ordinary porn movie, but it has become more of a scandal (which ,IMO, has blown out of proportion). This is mainly because things like these don't happen in India everyday. Parents are now even worried about giving Cell phones with cameras to their kids (for those of you who didn't know the tape was shot with the help of a phone and got transferred all over with the help of MMS).
Re:My proposal by riteshm · 2004-12-21 22:40 · Score: 1

Make Gay marriages legal everywhere in your country and we Indians promise to fight for the "esteem" cause of making pornography legal.
Have you heard of the saying - "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"? The point is that such matters are HIGHLY culture-dependent and should not be related to the country being free or democratic or tyranny.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 22:50 · Score: 1, Funny

A girl who sleeps around but not with you is a "whore." A girl who prevents her friend, who sleeps around, from sleeping with you is a "cunt" or "bitch." A girl who sleeps around, and sometimes with you is an "um..friend" if somehow someone you know manages to catch you together. A girl who slept around, but now sleeps with you, and you see during the light of day is your "girlfriend." If you don't see that girl during the light of day, or if she hasn't met your friends except on accident, she thinks she is a "girlfriend" but in acctuality she is "mistaken."

Also, um... how do you know the animals don't care? Are they making comments or noises expressing their indifference, and how do you know it's not just you?
Re:My proposal by liangzai · 2004-12-21 23:02 · Score: 2, Interesting

Scandinavia has been very religous, that's true. Scandinavia became sexually liberated _after_ religion lost its grip on the populace. I am Scandinavian, so I should know.

This is a process: Christianity was a tool that united Europe, gave it a common cultural ground to build upon. It could have been another uniting factor, with the same final outcome (philosophy, science, technology, medicine, rationality, law, democracy, human rights, freedom, pornography).

As for corruption, Italy and Russia have vast corruption, to name just a couple of Christian nations. You could add a slew of South American nations as well.

And if the Christians are so damn happy, they why they eat so much Prozac? Why are they never content? Living in China, I can tell you that people in general are happier here, unless they are very poor. It seems to be that the richer you get, the less happy you get. At least this has been the recent trend in the West, and there are signs of it also in booming China.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 23:29 · Score: 0

My proposal? Let people have their pornography.

My proposal: Quit trying to interfere with someone else's culture. They are a democracy, and can decide on their own what is appropriate for them. Or are you somehow more qualified to decide what is right for them?
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 23:53 · Score: 0

Why was the arrest wrong? Not only was this posted without the girl's knowledge in addition to it being child porn, but this CEO guy should have known better than to auction it off on his own site! Lock him up and throw away the key for Bubba to teach him a thing or two about child rape.
/-4 ill informed, too early in the morning, didn't read the article.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 00:18 · Score: 1, Informative

and there are people who, like king canute, try to stem the tide by ordering it not to be.

It is rather unfortunate that the folklore rendition of that event has lost Canute's whole point:

He had got fed up on his sycophants that constantly praised him saying that nothing was impossible for him. So he wanted to give a lesson for his court by showing that there was, indeed, something that he couldn't do.
Re:My proposal by SirBruce · 2004-12-22 00:27 · Score: 4, Funny

>Living in China, I can tell you that people in
>general are happier here, unless they are very
>poor.

So, rich people in China are happier than poor people.

>It seems to be that the richer you get, the less
>happy you get.

Wait, so rich people in China are LESS happy than the poor people?

>At least this has been the recent trend in the
>West, and there are signs of it also in booming
>China.

Wait, so in China, rich people were happier than poor people, but now that their richer, they're less happy?

Bruce
Re:My proposal by liangzai · 2004-12-22 00:34 · Score: 1

Smartass. No one is happy being poor. But riches above a certain level will not necessarily make you happier, but sometimes more miserable. Depression is a luxury.
Re:My proposal by Baroova · 2004-12-22 00:41 · Score: 5, Insightful

My thoughts exactly. The public school has expelled the girl for something which she has not commited at the school site, nor has she misused the name of the school in any way. The school has in fact never educated any of its students on the do's and dont's of sex which gives it no right to judge the girl. The boy, on the other hand, deceived the girl. I have seen the video and it is evident from it that she was participating in it because it was private to the two of them. According to the news reports, when the girl broke up with the boy a few days later, the boy sold the video to his class mates and friends for a small fee to get even with the girl. The government has been active in addressing the issue in the most in appropiate way, arresting people for promoting pornography when this is a case of intrusion of privacy and trust, for which the boy should have been arrested as early as possible. But he was arrested only 4 days ago, almost 2 weeks after it all started! The govt. went overboard in arresting and lodging Bajaj in Tihar Jail, where only the hardened criminals are lodged. A heavy fine or a suspension of the site (www.baazee.com) for a few days would have been a more appropiate reaction.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:09 · Score: 0

Dude, the CEO didn't put the video up... some student from IIT did!!!! The CEO got arrested for allowing the video to be sold on the site (even though he never placed it there..)

You really are ill-informed. RTFA then comment.
Re:My proposal by nish01 · 2004-12-22 01:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

actually the whole "brits oppressed indian openness towards sexuality" theory is junk.... if you look at Indian history - before the muslims came to india(as invaders from central/western asia) the society was very much sexually liberated. sexual liberation did not fit into the muslim religious frame work and once they become rulers the society slowly became more and more conservative. Things are a bit more complicated than that because people in the North (roughly) are desendents of aryans while the people in the south are desendents of the indegenous population.
Re:My proposal by LibertyLovesCompany · 2004-12-22 01:22 · Score: 1

The school has in fact never educated any of its students on the do's and dont's of sex which gives it no right to judge the girl.

Are you actually saying that if the school HAD educated the kids on the do's and dont's of sex that the school would THEN have the right to judge her (read: expel her)? I'm not sure I follow your logic here...

--
""If not us, who -- and if not now, when?"" - Ronald Reagan
Re:My proposal by LibertyLovesCompany · 2004-12-22 01:27 · Score: 1

it is not legal to trade porn (irony)

How is this ironic? Granted, in this case it was not, but in most cases "trading porn" consists of trading copyrighted material over the Internet. That is illegal based on most country's copyright laws, without even bringing decency statutes into it. I fail to see the irony here.

--
""If not us, who -- and if not now, when?"" - Ronald Reagan
Re:My proposal by asliarun · 2004-12-22 01:36 · Score: 1

Ok, i should have worded it "underage porn" and not "child porn". In any case, the crime here not the act itself or even capturing it in a video, but peddling it for money.

Again, in most countries, a pornographic act itself is not considered illegal. However, making money (or commercializing) from it is deemed illegal. The same holds true in this case as well.

In this case, the CEO of Baazee was arrested because he indirectly tried to make money from the transaction. Please note that i'm not in support of his arrest. I'm only stating the reason for his arrest.

Indian laws, in some respects, are quite backward and outdated. As a matter of fact, homosexuality (anal intercourse) is considered a crime in India! However, it's not very different from the antiquated and often ridiculous laws in the other countries as well. Additionally, India does have a mature, albeit slow, legal system. It just so happens this case has become a media circus, and hence, there's a lot of political pressures on the authorities.

Another thing: there's a lot of stuff sold in Baazee that can be considered illegal. It defintely doesn't monitor it's products the same way that say, eBay does.
Re:My proposal by spac3manspiff · 2004-12-22 01:44 · Score: 0

So what the school is saying is, DONT GIVE HEAD OR YOU WILL BE EXPELLED.
Well this sucks, now all the girls will be fearing to give head for the rest of their lives. And the girl who got expelled will probably be afraid do have sex for the rest of her life. Traumatic experience will probably haunt her for the rest of her life. There are even global implications of this tragic event. Now all indian girls across the globe will be afraid of giving head or even having sex with their significant other. Now eventually this will lead a decrease in the indian populations because of the lack of sexual activity. And this will result in the extinction of the entire Indian Race.
DAMN IT!
Re:My proposal by gunnk · 2004-12-22 01:47 · Score: 5, Insightful

A heavy fine or a suspension of the site (www.baazee.com) for a few days would have been a more appropiate reaction.

I have to disagree with you on that last point. Baazee took down the auction as soon as they became aware of it. They did the right thing from the very beginning as far as I can tell. There was no intent on the part of Baazee to distribute pornography.

Suppose one day someone slid some child pornography under your front door. Would you believe that you should be fined or arrested for possession of those materials? You certainly never planned on possessing those materials any more than Baazee planned on selling pornographic materials.

In situations like this there has to be intent in order for their to be wrongdoing.

--
Life is short: void the warranty.
Re:My proposal by KarmaOverDogma · 2004-12-22 01:47 · Score: 1

All very true, but shall we quash free speech on the hand of one Bozo with a vendetta?

Here in the United States, divorces and/or breakups can get quite nasty. Do a meta search for a taste of the nastiness out there. If we outlawed everything people did in the name of "getting even" or the like, just about nothing would be legal anymore.

Attempting to clamp down on the distribution of the video by holding corporations liable for the swell (swill?) of crap that happens under the radar screen of the internet and eBay just sets us all up to lose access to potentially vital information for us depeding on the situation and what we need (including what some may call pr0n).

My solution: prosecute the "jerk" who "betrayed her." Not the company which had no way of knowing what was going on without making everyone pay more to set up a system that may (or may not) catch material that is posted for auction that may (or may not) offend some people.

What is so hard to understand about going after the perpatrator and not the blind, unknowing service? Shall we outlaw driving because people deliberately use cars to kill (innocent?) people. No, no, wait! Let's outlaw alcohol, because it is so often used for illegal purposes (and sold on the 'net to boot!). Yes! outlawing alcohol worked very well, IIRC.

Ad infinitem argument, I know, but I hope you get my point: there are better, more intelligent ways of prosecuting the illegal distribution of under-age pornogrophy.

--
uR iGn0ranc3, Their Power
Re:My proposal by EvilAlien · 2004-12-22 01:57 · Score: 1

That is not correct, at least not everywhere. Age of consent != age of majority. Child pornography is media which focuses on the genitals or sexual activity of minors. For example, if age of consent in Jurisdiction A is 16, a filk of two 16 year olds might not risk either of them being charged with rape, but whoever has a copy of the video could be charged with possession of child pornography.

--
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 02:06 · Score: 0

Post a link to the video.
Re:My proposal by krbvroc1 · 2004-12-22 02:21 · Score: 2, Funny

(IANAL, in any case)

There was no Indian Anal in this film..period...Stop the fud.
Re:My proposal by mdwh2 · 2004-12-22 02:35 · Score: 1

She shared her intimate moments with someone she trusted, and the jerk betrayed her. This is less about sex and more about privacy.

True, though I wonder under what circumstances the video was originally transmitted to other people. It could have been given with her permission for all we know, and it would be one of the recipients who betrayed them. The article says that "Though public transmission and sale of pornography is a crime, possession and viewing is not" which suggests that the person who put it on the web site was clearly breaking the law, but it's worrying that sending to others through email (which isn't what I would consider a "public transmission", though I've no idea how they define it) is enough to get him arrested and charged.
Re:My proposal by AviLazar · 2004-12-22 02:39 · Score: 1

That may be true in your society, but in many societies (and sub-divisions of societies) sex is a necessary "evil" to have kids. Pornography is looked down upon (in our Puritan US outlook porn is supposed to be downplayed, and sex not spoken of). Now while I do not agree with these notions (i am all about the pr0n and the s3x) I do understand that other societies have different morales and values and their beliefs are just as justifiable as mine (with rare exception) so let them choose to treat sexual content in their own way.

You are right, however, Freedom != democracy, but for the wrong reason. They are two different words. Democracy is a form of gov't - freedom is a state of being. You can have freedom, but you practice democracy. You cannot practice freedom. You either have it or you do not.

Now just because India has laws that differs from us does not make them a society that offers no freedom. That is grossly unfair. That is like saying the US is not a free society because we do not let people smoke pot. While it might seem like a stupid law to someone in Amsterdamn, here in the US, apparantly the majority think its a good law.

--

I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 02:50 · Score: 0

In addition they are minors and this amounts to kid pr0n. But why arrest auction site CEO?, In fact they did not carry the material on the site.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 03:51 · Score: 0

... I really don't understand ...

That's where your problem lies - Understanding.
Re:My proposal by kryptkpr · 2004-12-22 04:02 · Score: 3, Interesting

Russia is corrupt becuase their gov't are puppets, the police are underpaid (read: bribed) and the country is run by organized crime syndicates.. not because they're "Christian".

--
DJ kRYPT's Free MP3s!
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:14 · Score: 1, Funny

Cool. Now maybe we'll get our jobs back.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:17 · Score: 0

Baazee.com IS an e-bay company... they ought to have the same standards...
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:20 · Score: 0

judge and punish are two seperate things.
Re:My proposal by Suchetha · 2004-12-22 04:26 · Score: 1

ok. it wasn't just the brits and not just in india. most of my post is based on my home country, sri lanka, but i believe that india was influenced in much the same way.

of course i grant that the brit influence was greater in .lk than in .in. but lets face it. wherever the missionaries landed, they took an open and sexually free society and left it a repressed wasteland. and then when/if the missionaries were kicked out, the locals continued the repression as "modesty and chastity are part of our culture."

atb

Suchetha

--

learn from yesterday, plan for tomorrow, party tonight
or one out of three ain't bad
Re:My proposal by Suchetha · 2004-12-22 04:35 · Score: 1

actually i DO know of this. but the point remains the same. no one can turn back a natural force by simply saying "be not" (or by any other form. nature ALWAYS finds a way)

--

learn from yesterday, plan for tomorrow, party tonight
or one out of three ain't bad
Re:My proposal by asliarun · 2004-12-22 04:37 · Score: 1

Baazee was only recently acquired by eBay. It is definitely more loosely run than eBay USA.
Re:My proposal by crgrace · 2004-12-22 05:30 · Score: 1

(which ,IMO, has blown out of proportion)

erm.... I should say so!
Re:My proposal by XchristX · 2004-12-22 05:30 · Score: 0

Freedom is for savages and looks good only in cheap H/B/T/Xollywood movies. Democracy is NOT freedom. Democracy is civilized.

--
l'Homme n'est Rien l'Oeuvre Tout: Gustave Flaubert to George Sand
Re:My proposal by teromajusa · 2004-12-22 06:16 · Score: 1

His point was that a country can be corrupt AND Christian, not that countries become corrupt from Christianity. Governmental corruption and the religion of the population are not directly correlated.
Re:My proposal by kryptkpr · 2004-12-22 06:44 · Score: 1

Governmental corruption and the religion of the population are not directly correlated.

Relly? Have you looked at what's going on in the USA lately, in the name of God? It's turned into a case of Christian God (us) vs Islamic God (them). And if you're not with "us", you're with "them", and you have no rights.

This is exactly how totalitarian regimes are born; the war between Eurasia and Oceania has already begun.. Orwell was right, just 20 years off.

--
DJ kRYPT's Free MP3s!
Re:My proposal by LordNimon · 2004-12-22 07:11 · Score: 1

I think his point is that since the school didn't have an official policy on the matter already in place (so that the students could know in advance that what they were doing wasn't allowed), then shouldn't be allowed to make up rules after the fact. Laws should not be made retroactive - if what you did was not specifically prohibited at the time, then you should never be punished for it.
In other words: Yes, if the school had educated the kids on the do's and dont's of sex, the school would then have the right to expel her.

--
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Re:My proposal by blueskies · 2004-12-22 07:17 · Score: 1

However, it begs a question

Once again: begs the question or this one.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 07:34 · Score: 0

it is the western missionaries that brought sexual repression to the east. when the victorian missionaries showed up with their straitlaced attitudes, that was the end of the good times as far as most people were concerned.
Does this even make sense? How many inroads have Christian missionaries made into most Asian cultures? India is about 2% Christian, Japan about the same, China is about 5%, and only if you include the weird cults that believe Jesus came back as a woman after the Cultural Revolution.
Perhaps you have weird Anti-Western predjudices (which would be odd, as you're certainly Western yourself), because accusing straight-laced Victorians of a massive change in Indian culture is entirely baseless and very odd.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 07:53 · Score: 1, Interesting

India (and most of asia) is a dichotomy when it comes to sex. if you look at some of the south indian temples you;ll find LOTS of sex on the walls. si much so that the british flat out REFUSED to talk about the wonders you see there (i'm talking about the temples, not the sexual positions on their walls).

What rubbish. And where exactly did you find this gem about the British?? As for the sex, I've never seen anything that looks like what you say. You know what they say: Beauty exists in the eye of the beholder. So does sex and sleaze.

that is why the northern states have more torist exposure than the southern (well the southern heat may have soemthing to do with it too)

More rubbish. Tourism in the south is doing very very good thank you. Kerala has been doing good in this area http://www.tourismindiaonline.com/highlights/story 6.asp. The pdf here http://www.tourismofindia.com/pdfs/tourism_stats.p df from the Dept of Tourism in India says that Andhra Pradesh , Tamil Nadu, Karnataka are all doing well for domestic tourists. (There are no state-wise figures for international tourists.) The figures are old (2002)but atleast they give you an idea. Kerala also has a bunch of Tourism related awards

My opinion is that the southern states are probably doing better than the Northen ones. Better infrastructure, better economy, friendly people, (oh wait-a-minute... isn't that the reason much of the IT investment is flowing to south india), has its own heritage and culture (
Tamil is a now officially a classical language. And is I believe the main Indian language of a non-sanskrit origin), lots of forts, temples, beaches, festivals etc to see and do.

there are tales of temples where women who couldn't have children would spend the night and the god would come down to them and miraculously impregnate them (umm yeah.. god.. right..)

More rubbish. There are myths/legends of God granting a baby as a boon to ppl. That exists in other religions too. (Isn't Virgin Mary an example??)

In real life, I'm yet to see/hear of this "spend a night in the temple" theory and I've lived in South India all my life. What i have heard of though, is couples who have no children praying to Gods for a baby and going through various penances like fasting on holy days etc for that. Again, I'd presume that is the same all over the world. I'm sure childless (and religious) Christian/Muslim/Jew/whatever couples also pray to their respective Gods.

This is just rumour-mongering.

And moderators, that crap was informative??
Re:My proposal by thisissilly · 2004-12-22 08:46 · Score: 1

it is the western missionaries that brought sexual repression to the east. when the victorian missionaries showed up with their straitlaced attitudes, that was the end of the good times as far as most people were concerned.
Actually, with India, I believe it was Muslim missionaries and invaders, around the 12th century AD (If I remember my history right).
Re:My proposal by hesiod · 2004-12-22 09:38 · Score: 1

> In other words: Yes, if the school had educated the kids on the do's and dont's of sex, the school would then have the right to expel her.

I would take that farther... If the school had told them that videotaping themselves having sex would get them expelled, then they would have the right. if they just informed them about sex disregarding school policy, they still had no right to do that -- unless it was on school property, the video showed something that represented the school (uniform, etc), or was in any way "affiliated," there is no good case. It's not the school's problem.
Re:My proposal by hesiod · 2004-12-22 09:55 · Score: 1

What happens when the majority believes one way because their government lied to them about the thing in question for years? That is not freedom.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 12:36 · Score: 0

The attitude towards sex definitely needs a rehaul in India but in this particular case the individuals in the video are both underage. So it would have been illegal in most countries.

That said, (the IIT student) Ravi Raj's arrest is justified because he was trying to sell it. But Bajaj's arrest is not justified. In fact, if the same reasoning is followed further, the Delhi police would have to arrest the CEO of the cellphone service provider of the boy in the video. The boy sent the video over his cellphone to several friends. So by allowing the cellphone network to be used for distributing such a video... etc.
Re:My proposal by teromajusa · 2004-12-22 13:26 · Score: 1

This is exactly how totalitarian regimes are born; the war between Eurasia and Oceania has already begun.. Orwell was right, just 20 years off.

If I remember correctly, it was nationalism not religion which was used to fool the people in 1984, so this does not bear out the point you were trying to make. In any case, what I really meant was that there is no correlation with any particular religion. All popular religions are equally vulnerable to exploitation by authority. I think this has more to do with the gullibility of people rather than the nature of religion.
Re:My proposal by ottothecow · 2004-12-22 14:50 · Score: 1

But he hit the nail on the head with doublespeak, just look at the right wing policies on how they even speak about "global warming"

--
Bottles.
Re:My proposal by hypermike · 2004-12-22 15:12 · Score: 1

She shared her intimate moments with someone she trusted...

and a video camera! Only sluts do that anyway

--
Re:My proposal by hypermike · 2004-12-22 15:18 · Score: 1

ok ok I just RTFA and I see that she didnt know.

--
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 15:54 · Score: 0

The reason so much fuss was created was because both of them were below 18.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 18:29 · Score: 0

are you just this dumb naturally? or are you just having trouble with engrish?
Re:My proposal by AviLazar · 2004-12-23 02:08 · Score: 1

What does your statement have to do with my statement?

Here is my techie answer: Y0u @r3 p0wn3d

--

I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Re:My proposal by hesiod · 2004-12-23 06:04 · Score: 1

> What does your statement have to do with my statement?
> > > the US is not a free society because we do not let people smoke pot. [...] here in the US, apparantly the majority think its a good law.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit, or is it just trouble remembering what you actually said?

Since "powned" is not even a word, I'll assume the first. Or did you mean pawned? I've never offered myself as collateral on a loan.
Re:My proposal by AviLazar · 2004-12-23 06:16 · Score: 1

Reading comprehension not your strong suit, or is it just trouble remembering what you actually said? Since "powned" is not even a word, I'll assume the first. Or did you mean pawned? I've never offered myself as collateral on a loan.

No I do not like to read. But when I quote someone, I do it correctly. I said p0wn3d which is slang for "owned" as in "You have been owned"...now I would think someone posting on /. as long as you have would realize this or were you just trying to make a point? And don't be so sure if you have never offered yourself as collateral. On loan...you have a credit card yes? These unsecured loans only have one source of collateral - you - more specific your credit history - but in our society - no credit no luck.

Oh and just because we restrict a certain action does not mean our society is not free. Unless you think a society that punishes people for comitting murder is not a free society.

So if your only point to make in your last post was a futile attempt to insult my intelligence by trying to play an ACCEPTED jargon that is utilized on this forum regularly...you failed, or more importantly I p0wn3d y0ur @$$

--

I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Re:My proposal by hesiod · 2004-12-23 09:54 · Score: 1

No, I don't have any Credit Cards, actually.

You do not "own" me in any way, so you are misusing a misspelled/l337-1z3d word.

No, murder isn't allowed in a "free" society, but things that do not affect anyone else should be.

I don't need to attempt insulting your intelligence, you do it quite nicely by yourself. Failure or success, however, is not the goal. The goal is to put my opinion out there in a coherent manner. Ergo, I have not failed, YFI.

BTW, I don't have any problems with your lifestyle, but I'm not gay, so I'll keep my ass, thank you. There's plenty of other guys' asses out there that you could p0wn though. Enjoy.
Re:My proposal by AviLazar · 2004-12-27 02:48 · Score: 1

Is that your best attempt? You have no debt in life? Wow one of those rare few people - you must be lying or under the age of 18.
I do not own you in anyway, society does.
Your ideas of actions that do not affect anyone are different from others apparantly. Society is agreeing with me
I like insulting my own intelligence, its fun - you should enjoy insulting yourself also - at the very least you might amuse yourself.

Don't hide behind the closet anymore - come on out - I know plenty of guys who would be real gentle with your ass.
Happy New Years

--

I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Re:My proposal by hesiod · 2004-12-27 03:52 · Score: 1

> Your ideas of actions that do not affect anyone are different from others apparantly.

Yes, I understand the concept of "stupidity in masses." However, you are not a "mass of people" and therefore have no excuse.

To answer it in the way you meant it, though, ideas can and usually are wrong in some way. "Society" also thinks Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Christ. They are wrong there too. Without lieing, there is NO WAY you can argue that smoking a joint with a friend in my apartment adversely affects anyone other than my friend and myself. I believe any contrary answer you can come up with is either bullshit or too tenuous a connection to be true. If you have a real one, bring it on.

Otherwise, you are just a worthless, unloved troll of a person/slashdotter. Not that that's always bad.

> I know plenty of guys who would be real gentle with your ass.

Is that a proposition? Come on, big boy, whip it out & show the goods.
Re:My proposal by Anonymous Coward · 2005-01-04 12:37 · Score: 0

Not to mention that there is rampant child sex slavery in India.

The Indian outrage over this video is laughable given their society's acceptance/indifference to the kidnapping of children who are forced into a horrible existence of torture, prostitution, and AIDS.

(You need to see this film)
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/daymygoddied/

Potential for abuse: by LMariachi · 2004-12-21 21:18 · Score: 3, Funny

What is being overlooked

A link to the .torrent?

Re:Potential for abuse: by spac3manspiff · 2004-12-22 01:33 · Score: 0

Someone could post the .torrent link, but then Slashdot would be arrested :/
Re:Potential for abuse: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 06:35 · Score: 0

Actually, if the guy was a real geek, he would have just ask her to solve this equation:

B4I4Q(RU/18)QT(pi)?
Re:Potential for abuse: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 02:34 · Score: 0

hey, Why .torrent ? Use the BIG DADDY Use Kazaa search for "dps". Probably file is dps dhamaka.avi dps is school name and dhamaka stands for bang I dont wanna end up like bajaj dats why anonymous (LAME I know )

Knee-jerk? by mboverload · 2004-12-21 21:18 · Score: 0

Is this a knee-jerk reaction, or someone just out looking for publicity? Could the police really be THAT dumb?

Re:Knee-jerk? by pamri · 2004-12-21 21:37 · Score: 3, Insightful

In this case, it's India's IT Act which has allowed this crap of holding the service provider responsible for all acts of it's users. This story from the same newspaper shows the aptitude & intelligence of Indian cops and lawmakers when it comes to technology.

Insanity by Bioanarchism · 2004-12-21 21:19 · Score: 5, Interesting

This is utterly insane. Apparently the distribution of pornographic material doesn't constitute the rights for the authorities to arrest the CEO. Everyday auction sites around the world, not only Bazee, experience a new item submission every 5 minutes. In retrospect, how can anyone keep track of all incoming and outgoing items that registered users submit? This is totally absurd that the CEO is arrested based on this fact. Shouldn't the one who submitted the item be arrested instead? Or how about the people that appeared in the video? There is lawleness in these law.

--
Often we do not have time for our friends, yet all the time in the world for our enemies.

Re: Insanity by Alwin+Henseler · 2004-12-21 22:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

From the summary: "the Indian government is planning a law based on the DMCA that would establish the responsibility of the corporation when dealing with copyrighted materials."
The word "responsible" is what it boils down to here. One should determine guilt on "Who was responsible for it?".
If you run a website, and you do maintenance personally, than you are responsible for putting content on the site. If I upload some kiddie porn to my site, then I did that, and I should be held responsible for that.
But: in the case of large sites like ISP's or eBay, with huge numbers of customers, it doesn't work that way, does it? You have an automated system where users modify some bits all by themselves. Regulated, managed, but users do the uploading.
So who was responsible for the 'dirty deed' here? The CEO of Baazee.com? No, from what I read, he had nothing to do with uploading the material. Who uploaded the material then? Some user of the site. So that user should be held responsible.
Re: Insanity by Bioanarchism · 2004-12-21 22:22 · Score: 1

That is a great breakdown.

If a person, or team, who personally maintains a small website, then they definitely should be liable for the exposure of such contents.

With such humongous websites/portals, how can anyone keep track? Re-thinking of their business models (as someone suggested in another comment within this story) isn't the way to do things around the intarweb.

The user who uploaded the video clip should not only be held responsible but the authorities themselves. Instead of arresting the CEO for a cause that he is not aware of. Even if he is aware of, what little matter does it make? He could take the content offline, or perhaps he didn't do so (based on another comment) because there were certain policies that the portal was adhering to.

But why focus on such a trivial matter, even though it is an immoral one? Shouldn't the authorities have better managed their time and focus their energy on arresting other people who may be lurking around doing even worse things?

Here again, morality is presided over by ignorance. Once again, there is lawleness in law, just as there is some order in chaos and some chaos in order.

--
Often we do not have time for our friends, yet all the time in the world for our enemies.
Re:Insanity by hapuchu · 2004-12-21 22:52 · Score: 1

According to a clause in "Indian IT law 2000": 67. Publishing of information which is obscene in electronic form. Whoever publishes or transmits or causes to be published in the electronic form, any material which is lascivious or appeals to the prurient interest or if its effect is such as to tend to deprave and corrupt persons who are likely, having regard to all relevant circumstances, to read, see or hear the matter contained or embodied in it, shall be punished on first conviction with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to five years and with fine which may extend to one lakh rupees and in the event of a second or subsequent conviction with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to ten years and also with fine which may extend to two lakh rupees. According to this, CEO can be arrested. But yes, this kind of draconian law needs to change.
Re: Insanity by andynz · 2004-12-21 23:14 · Score: 1

In this case, the material wasn't even uploaded. A user on the site was offering VCD copies of the video for sale.
Re:Insanity by Qzukk · 2004-12-22 01:22 · Score: 1

Whoever publishes

The question becomes "who published this"?

Did the CEO publish porn on the site? Or was it the person who offered the porn for sale on the site? Was porn really published on the site at all (since it was just being sold. I'd suspect that no pornographic images were shown on the site, though maybe whoever listed it took screenshots of the best moments.)?

I'd say that the law needs to go a few rounds in some kind of supreme court situation (does India implement a higher court that is responsible for removal or interpretation of laws?) to interpret what exactly should be meant by publish in this law, and who exactly is doing the publishing.

--
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 02:03 · Score: 0

eBay has always taken the position that it is a venue. This is the simple fundamental principle of its business model. eBay, the venue, claims billions in sales but has none of associated expenses or risks. No staff to predict trends and find products or sources, and no money tied up in inventory, warehousing, shipping, etc. As a venue it absolves itself of vetting anything listed, and only takes action for what is listed on the site after the fact, and only when notified by "the community". Perhaps in the beginning around 1995 through going public is 1998 it was just a venue in the true sense of the word. But as it has grown into an billion dollar multinational corporation the lawyers have redefined the meaning of venue, pushing the "only a venue" line as far as they choose to benefit its bottom line. Thus far the 800 pound gorilla has acted with impunity and not a little hubris, (remember AOL in the late 90's ?).

The Indian government has responded to the sexual video offered for sale on an Bay site by taking the upper hand and proposing legislation that defines "venue". This action is a strong statement that tells eBay that it can't continue to define venue in an amorphous and ambiguous way to suit itself. It is a clever bit of lawyering by the Indian government to legislate rather than trying to litigate what eBay has unilaterally decided is or isn't a venue. This takes the onus off of the government to prove that eBay isn't a venue and is responsible for what is listed on its site, and puts it on eBay to defend "only a venue". What makes this proposed legislation brilliant is that it is based on US law, the DMCA, and ups the ante for eBay word wide.

Depending on how this plays out eBay could be forced to operate within a legal definition of "only a venue". eBay would no longer be able to define and re-define venue for whatever purpose they choose. This isn't just about a porn video. This matter has the potential to challenge the basic eBay business model of "only a venue".

Taking on eBay under the DMCA also creates the potential to affect already contentious copyright matters, e-commerce, and a myriad of other ways the Internet operates in general as well.
Re:Insanity by screenrc · 2004-12-22 04:25 · Score: 1

It is just an arrest, like all other arrests.

Police arrest people all the time without trial,
without strong evidence, and without first sorting
things out. What is it so important here? Would
they not arrest someone who sells illegal goods,
only to find later that his methods of doing business
was too lax and did not know what he was
selling?

Note, he was not charged with a crime. He was
just arrested, like all the million others who are arrested
and and charged (or let go) two days later.

Even more... by EvilStein · 2004-12-21 21:23 · Score: 5, Funny

Reuters story said that the girl was sent to Canada, and the guy was in deeeep trouble at home. Both of them were students at a private school, too.

So this can only mean one thing - Hot Indian babes *do* put out!

Can I outsource myself to India now? :D

Re:Even more... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 03:17 · Score: 0

No shit, Sherlock. And boy do they like to get freaky! I could tell you some stories... Oh, yeah.
Re:Even more... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:27 · Score: 0

correction: public school.
Re:Even more... by XchristX · 2004-12-22 06:02 · Score: 0

Dammit! Where were these women when I was in school back in India?????

--
l'Homme n'est Rien l'Oeuvre Tout: Gustave Flaubert to George Sand
Re:Even more... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 08:23 · Score: 0

correction: public schools in India are private. Like the UK really.

Re:ebay sux by vosgienne · 2004-12-21 21:26 · Score: 1

How is this in any way about ebay? This is about: -Being arrested for helping aide in distributing something -People in India sure have extremely high moral standards? (Kind of of like being arrested for selling pot) And MOST IMPORTANTLY: What do you think of India's construction of DMCA like laws?

What the ... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 21:28 · Score: 0

Indian chief arrested?

Chief Sellingporn?

Are they going to arrest by halaloszto · 2004-12-21 21:31 · Score: 5, Insightful

The CEO of the Postal Service for distributing drugs and weapons.

The CEOs of the Railway companis for transporting criminals.

The managers of several hotels for hiding criminals.

This is insane. vajk

Re:Are they going to arrest by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 00:26 · Score: 0

Also

CEO of Nokia.. for making the phone
CEO Samsung.. for making the CD burners
Re:Are they going to arrest by Vulcann · 2004-12-22 02:43 · Score: 1

While I'm largely against this foolish behavior on the part of Indian authorities, after reading a bit of details into this situation I have to at least slightly side by the Indian cops.

They're crime isnt selling porn, its about negligence.

Supposedly the reason they are holding him responsible is because the illegal copy of the porn was taken down a full 38 HOURS after it had been posted online on the site. Also, apparently it sold a LOT of copies during that time too so it must have created at least enough commotion to be noticed by someone on the staff.

Now if the CEO of a postal service distributes drugs and weapons without him knowing, he cant be held accountable. But if someone IN the post office sells drugs and weapons, I damn well would hold someone there responsible because it's under they're direct control.
Re:Are they going to arrest by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 03:35 · Score: 0

While i agree with you, i can continue with the comparision:

We know that drugs and weapons are sent by post. There are say average 4 parcels delivered by a given post office in a big enough city per week. Does this mean that you as the postmaster have to spend your weekends with the cops checking the parcel storage for suspicios packages?

There are public services, that while known to be utilized by criminals are not overtaken by police for the sake of the normal operation of our society. It would be easy to catch burglars if you could close all roads in the neighbourhood. Damn easy to stop illegal immigration by simply closing the borders (building some huge walls too). Just that would not be proportional to the threat! And this is the key.

Police actions have to be proportional to the crime. Not taking the auction down immediately may be a crime, but does not justify being arrested. IMHO.

vajk
Re:Are they going to arrest by dema · 2004-12-22 05:37 · Score: 1

According to the article he was arrested because he knew the video was there and did not have it removed.

If the CEO of a railway company knew of a specific railcar being used to transport criminals and had the power to stop it but did not, he should be arrested on the spot.

influential relatives by fiftybmg · 2004-12-21 21:32 · Score: 1

Which of the two families have the connections necessary to have someone arrested on a trumped charge to try safe some face ?

Re:influential relatives by varunrebel · 2004-12-21 21:58 · Score: 1
Oh. Come on.

How is getting someone arrested on a trumped up charge going to help the situation even for the families of the 2 individuals?

If they want to sweep it under the carpet then they would keep quiet about it as much as possible instead of practically shouting it from the rooftops by getting a high profile person arrested.

This is just the high-handedness and stupidity of Indian authorities.

BTW there are 2 more possibilities
1. Some adversary of the CEO wanted to get back at him and used his/her influence to get him arrested.
2. This is a ploy by Bazee.com to get free publicity !!
--
"Programming is like sex. Make one mistake and support it for the rest of your life !!"
Re:influential relatives by fiftybmg · 2004-12-21 23:07 · Score: 1

Perhaps. But on the other hand it is a message to other Indian managed sites to dissociate themselves from hosting or referencing the content. A bit more high profile initially, with a forcible reduction in exposure in future, especially in India, where the families concerned are now humiliated. This little adventure will have professional repurcussions for the parents and relatives in business and public service circles.
Re:influential relatives by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 23:13 · Score: 0

IMO You have come straight to the root of the matter. Stuff like this has happened before, but this has got dragged out because one or more of the parties "involved" has *very* influential connections. This is nothing new. The guy filmed it and sent it around to his friends, so obviously it's a common practice in his circs.

My point is that This would have been ignored very quickly if it was some regular people involved, but someone in this issue is kicking things up and does not want this to die down, for whatever reasons they have.

PS: The girl involved in the issue left the country very quickly. This is not possible for anyone but a very rich Indian. And since I'm from India, I can give you my word for it. Also note that DPS is one of the "swankest" schools in this country, and is pretty much *the* school for the rich and famous in Delhi who do not want to send their kids to non-indian schools or government run schools. The high-ups are definitely involved. Question is, why are they trying to pull down Bazee?

When are the Indian going to call on Condi ? by shri · 2004-12-21 21:32 · Score: 4, Interesting

Ms Rice is understood to have telephoned the US ambassador in India, David Mulford, about the case.

The Bush administration's national security adviser and future secretary of state has let it be known she is furious at Mr Bajaj's humiliating treatment. He is, after all, a US citizen.

Any Indians been put in jail recently because of the Patriot Act? Never mind ... not like the Indian govt would develop a new set of cojones.

She's furious because of the eBay connection.

Re:When are the Indian going to call on Condi ? by wwwrench · 2004-12-22 00:28 · Score: 1

Regardless of how messed up the case is, I find it interesting that the US ambassador, and the national secuirty adviser are so quickly working to get this guy released. A consular representative was also at his hearing. People are wrongfully thrown in jail all the time, but the U.S. embassy rarely cares - I have tried to get them involved in other cases, and they don't do anything -- well, apparently unless the guy is a CEO. Imagine if this was just some non-millionaire - think Condi would be trying to get him/her out of jail??

--

Deconstruct the State
Re:When are the Indian going to call on Condi ? by 1u3hr · 2004-12-22 01:03 · Score: 3, Interesting

find it interesting that the US ambassador, and the national secuirty adviser are so quickly working to get this guy released.
Reminiscent of the Union Carbide accident in Bhopal, in 1984, which killed about 20,000 people. The CEO, Warren Anderson, came over to see the aftermath and was arrested on homicide charges by the local police chief. A few days later, after heavy pressure from the US govt, he was released, immediately departed India, and though India has been pressing for his extradition ever sence, he remains free and very rich.
Meanwhile hundreds, or thousands, of Westerners rot in jail in Asia on minor and quite often trumped-up drug chrges, and their embassies turn a blind eye. Using drugs is much worse than killing a few thousand third-worlders after all.
Re:When are the Indian going to call on Condi ? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 05:21 · Score: 0

Americans are FAR MORE IMPORTANT than people from other countries. Everyone knows that.
Re:When are the Indian going to call on Condi ? by meringuoid · 2004-12-22 08:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

A few days later, after heavy pressure from the US govt, he was released, immediately departed India, and though India has been pressing for his extradition ever sence, he remains free and very rich.
The way I heard it, he was released on bail, rather than as a result of government pressure. He promptly left India never to return. He is, of course, now a fugitive from justice, but naturally that is no bar to his continuing comfortable lifestyle in the US. They were only Indians who died, after all...

--
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Re:When are the Indian going to call on Condi ? by 1u3hr · 2004-12-23 02:53 · Score: 1

The way I heard it, he was released on bail, rather than as a result of government pressure.
Yes, but how likely is it otherwsie that someone charged with the death of seveal thousand people be given bail and be allowed to leave the country?

Re:ebay sux by elfin_spectre · 2004-12-21 21:32 · Score: 1

Just one minute - the first part of this story is about the blow job video and the second part links this to DCMA type laws 'when dealing with copyrighted materials' So this blow job video was copyrighted? Where's the connection?

Let The FlameWar begin by tarunthegreat2 · 2004-12-21 21:35 · Score: 4, Informative

1) The Police claim that Baazee.com did not take down the video clip, even after being notified of the complaint. This is why they arrested the CEO

2) This not regular old porno. The girl involved in this did not give her conest to the release of the video - nor did she know she was being filmed

3) Strict moral standards blah blah bullshit. It's just that in this particular case is publicised so the police had to act. The bottom line is, that these people got caught. Otherwise, sale of porno in India is rampant (but yes, it's illegal).

Feel free to post a few comments here

--
My Favourite Meme

Re:Let The FlameWar begin by metlin · 2004-12-21 22:04 · Score: 1

>nor did she know she was being filmed

Oh no, you're quite wrong there - she did know she was being filmed.

In fact, it is said that in the clip itself, the guy asks her for an upskirt shot and she refuses.
Re:Let The FlameWar begin by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 22:05 · Score: 0

Oh please, I've seen the video and if she didn't know she was being filmed then she's either blind, stupid, or both.
Re:Let The FlameWar begin by jokach · 2004-12-21 22:12 · Score: 1

And if she knew she was being filmed (which she did), she should realize that there is the potential that the film would be released to the world. Anybody that takes the time to film themselves (espcecially doing this), must understand the potential reprecussions of doing that .... look at the hollywood stars like Pam Anderson/Tommy Lee and Paris Hilton ... same thing happened to them ..
Re:Let The FlameWar begin by metlin · 2004-12-21 22:17 · Score: 1

I agree with you, however how often do people think of consequences when they are 16 and horny? :)

Firstly, the problem is that the guy distributed the video without her consent. Secondly, the video clip was found on eBay's subsidiary Bazee - but Bazee was not authorized to distribute pornographic material.

So, it becomes a violation of privacy and unauthorized distribution of pornographic material.

All in all, despite everything the real victim is the girl. Unfortunate, really.
Re:Let The FlameWar begin by phreakv6 · 2004-12-21 23:12 · Score: 2, Informative

1) The Police claim that Baazee.com did not take down the video clip, even after being notified of the complaint. This is why they arrested the CEO

The truth is that the video was put on baazee on a friday evening and had sold quite a few copies over the weekend before the next business day i.e monday.It was taken right away on monday after the CEO himself asked for its removal.I dont think its right to blame the CEO for this.

--
fifteen jugglers, five believers
Re: Let The FlameWar begin by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 23:27 · Score: 0

1) The Police claim that Baazee.com did not take down the video clip, even after being notified of the complaint.
I've read 3 reports linked in the post, and all 3 say the opposite, that is that the video was taken down as soon as CEO of Baazee.com was informed of it, and the CEO did his best to co-operate with police.
Besides that, Baazee.com being a buy/sell site, I would assume that not the video itself was hosted there, but only an advertisement/offer for sale of the video (and placed there not by Baazee.com, but by one of Baazee.com users).
This is why they arrested the CEO.
Then either 1) Police was stupid and grabbed the wrong guy, or 2) all 3 news reports from different sources got their facts wrong. Not likely.
The girl involved in this did not give her consent to the release of the video
It appears not.
- nor did she know she was being filmed
Going down on a boy that is filming you with his cameraphone, and not be aware of that? Yeah, right.
Re:Let The FlameWar begin by Vellmont · 2004-12-21 23:33 · Score: 1

2) This not regular old porno. The girl involved in this did not give her conest to the release of the video - nor did she know she was being filmed

How the hell do you not know you're being filmed when the guy you're blowing is holding a cell-phone camera right up to you?

As far as distribution consent, technically that's true. However after Pamela Anderson and Paris Hilton tapes leaked out to everyone on the planet that wanted them should you really shouldn't be that surprised when it leaks.. especially if it's some 16 year old kid filming you. This girl needs to take some of the responsibility for this. It's not like this is the first time it's happened.

--
AccountKiller
Re:Let The FlameWar begin by TheLink · 2004-12-21 23:34 · Score: 2, Interesting

I doubt she really considered the full implications of her actions.

That's what the ban against underaged sex is for - the underaged are supposedly not as able to understand the many possible consequences of their actions (having a child is a long term responsibility).

That said, most adults including me are not much better :).
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Re:Let The FlameWar begin by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 00:18 · Score: 0

except what is underage? in the UK the age of consent is 16, other European countries it is as low as 14.

For that matter you can marry at 16 in the UK, which requires sex take place or the marriage is voidable.
Re:Let The FlameWar begin by TheLink · 2004-12-22 03:23 · Score: 1

"except what is underage? in the UK the age of consent is 16, other European countries it is as low as 14.

For that matter you can marry at 16 in the UK, which requires sex take place or the marriage is voidable."

Adults also don't find it easy to think about the consequences. It's like a statistical curve - e.g. below a certain age 95% shouldn't be going around having sex with everybody just because it feels good to them, slightly older and it's 80%.

And some people never grow up :).

Marriage does bias the curve a bit - because in most sane places you can't do it impulsively (ala Britney Spears). So if the two actually go through all the hassle of getting married they are likely to be reasonably serious about it. Often the two would have people talking to them and finding out pertinent things like: one wants "till death do us part" and the other wants "till the love runs out"... Marriages are a lot less likely to work if both are not committed to "topping up the love".
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Re:Let The FlameWar begin by mat+catastrophe · 2004-12-22 03:31 · Score: 1

nor did she know she was being filmed

I'm curious. Where does the film go in a phone/digital camera? All of you keep saying "film" or "filmed." What gives?

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sig not found
Re:Let The FlameWar begin by taloner · 2004-12-22 04:02 · Score: 1

"This not regular old porno. The girl involved in this did not give her conest to the release of the video - nor did she know she was being filmed"

If you watch the clip you will see that she knew about the cam. To top it off the jerk asked for an upskirt shot too which she declined. What I fail to understand is how can she agree on getting filmed.
Re:Let The FlameWar begin by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:23 · Score: 0

you can be horny, 16 and not video tape stuff.

i dont have much sympathy for her, she allowed it to be videotaped, and gee what a shock, im sure he showed his friends.

she is quite frankly stupid and i hope stops having sex to avoid any stupid genes passed on.

it sucks for it to happen, but she wasnt a real victim, she actively participated in something she should have known would not be kept private.
Re:Let The FlameWar begin by CPrimerPlus · 2004-12-22 07:14 · Score: 1

2) This not regular old porno. The girl involved in this did not give her conest to the release of the video - nor did she know she was being filmed
how could she not know? dude filmed it with a camera phone. by the way, where is the link to that? anyone got it?

consequences... by sonictheboom · 2004-12-21 21:36 · Score: 1, Troll

traditionally, on geting caught, you would have to get married.. I wonder what happens in this case?

Re:consequences... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 11:54 · Score: 0

actually, I believe it was stoning

Re:The girl cant complain by tarunthegreat2 · 2004-12-21 21:39 · Score: 0, Troll

You're so full of shit it's hilarious.
1) She did not consent to being video-taped.

2) The girl is 16, and the boy 17. That makes them Minors. In your advanced country, apparently selling porn of minors is ok. Sorry, I'll stick to my backwards country. At least learn to disguise your flamebait so it looks like a reasonable post, fuckface.

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It's a travesty by manavendra · 2004-12-21 21:42 · Score: 4, Informative

The entire issue has been blown out of proportions I believe.
What started off as a prank, teenage goofing, moment of madness - name what you like, was not only copied several times over, but also packaged and sold. So far, nothing out of the ordinary honestly. Such things have happened in the past elsewhere as well.
What really got things going was the sale of the content via a website, I guess. The ease of content transmission, coupled with the fact that it was two students from a well-known (and reputed, if i may say so myself) which were on camera, was what fuelled the controversy big time.
As has been the case with administration and police in India in the past, they appear to believe that the best means of solving a crime is to rake the muck and/or shoot in the dark, hoping something would give. Since they did not have the seller (or even his identity) initially, they resorted to the worst interpretation of the law - holding the owner of the website (www.bazee.com) responsible for the content!
It's a travesty that the CEO had to spend time in one of the most notorious jails of India (the Tihar Jail).

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http://efil.blogspot.com/

larp. by knowles420 · 2004-12-21 21:42 · Score: 1

great, so now the american cell phone pr0n companies are outsourcing to india...

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-knowles

Reason for arrest by mahesh_gharat · 2004-12-21 21:44 · Score: 1

Failure in checking the items (being auctioned on the site) for pornographich content

The law. by northcat · 2004-12-21 21:48 · Score: 3, Informative

Actully all of India's computer related activities are covered by a single 'IT act'. As you might imagine, it's quite primitive. It doesnt take into account automated sites like auction sites or forums. In a developed country lawmakers think about things like this in advance and make laws, but in a country where computer users form a small minority, laws are modified only after an incident like this. The law needs a serious overhaul. But the phrase "based on DMCA" is scaring me (I'm an Indian). I just hope they only take the non-abusive part of DMCA.

Re:The law. by HeghmoH · 2004-12-22 00:46 · Score: 1

In a developed country lawmakers think about things like this in advance and make laws....

Ahahaha, that's a good one! Tell me another one!

Seriously, though, were you awake during the 80s and 90s? The developed countries did the exact same thing India is doing now, it's just that they have a longer experience with ubiquitous computing and got the obvious bits out of the way already.

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Re:The law. by nwbvt · 2004-12-22 03:36 · Score: 1

When most think of the DMCA, they are usually too busy worrying about the illegalization of hacking into copyright controls that they forget that one of the main features of the law is that it limits liability of service providers over content distributed over it.

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Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.

The point is: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 21:48 · Score: 0

The point is not "What would you propose?" The point is how to get it across to the Indian government? How do you make them listen and amend the law to bring it upto a level of sanity.

more details.. by awerqfa · 2004-12-21 21:52 · Score: 1

hi guys, just to put things right.. the IIT Kharagpur (not IIT Delhi) guy put up the offer to email the clip on Bazee.com, and the clip was taken without the consent of the girl in question..

Error by northcat · 2004-12-21 21:52 · Score: 1

The student who sold the clip is not from IIT Delhi. Its IIT Kharagpur. Kharagpur is a city near Delhi.

Re:Error by pilanian · 2004-12-21 22:22 · Score: 1

> Kharagpur is a city near Delhi.

Wrong. Kharagpur is about 1,000 Km from Delhi and is in the state of West Bengal. IIT-Kharagpur (aka IIT-Kgp) was the first IIT established in India. The other IITs came about 5-10 years later.

The video clip had found its way on the IIT-Kgp LAN from where the IIT-Kgp student picked it up and then sold it on bazee.com. Note that the Director of IIT-Kgp was not arrested for the clip floating on its LAN.

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-- Raj
Re:Error by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:20 · Score: 0

The student who sold the clip is not from IIT Delhi. Its IIT Kharagpur. Kharagpur is a city near Delhi.

ohhh, now it changes everything!
Re:Error by alphakappa · 2004-12-22 06:24 · Score: 1

Dude, IIT Kharagpur is nowhere near IIT Delhi. Delhi is to the north, while Kharagpur is to the east of India. Yes, very far.

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"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." - Abraham Maslow (1908-1970)

It was illegal by shyampandit · 2004-12-21 21:56 · Score: 1, Informative

What was done was illegal because it was child porn. They were both underage. The video was captured with an video camera phone and distributed via MMS and later copied onto a computer and distributed online. Although in the video the girl is smiling and stuff... so I dont think she had any problem being filmed...

Re:It was illegal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 00:20 · Score: 0

are you Indian? are you and Indian lawyer? the age of consent is not 18 all around the world.
Re:It was illegal by value_added · 2004-12-22 01:00 · Score: 1

"Although in the video the girl is smiling and stuff..."

Unless I missed it, that bit of reporting wasn't included in the article, so I'm assuming you have seen video. What's interesting is that you choose to characterise the video with the loaded phrase "child porn."

Maybe you want to describe what happened in the "and stuff" part for those of us who haven't yet seen it and want to watch child porn too.
Re:It was illegal by esanbock · 2004-12-22 02:03 · Score: 2, Funny

"Although in the video the girl is smiling and stuff."

I think you better get a lawyer...
Re:It was illegal by shyampandit · 2004-12-22 02:24 · Score: 1

Why should I get a lawyer? I have not seen nor intend on seeing the video. Someone(I dont remember who) just happened to mention it to me when we were discussing about the matter!
Re:It was illegal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:10 · Score: 0

"Child porn" ages are an arbitrary number set to appease the voters. I'm not a child porn viewer and I personally like women at least 25-30 with a bit of meat on their bones, but the fact is that NATURE should be dictating what's normal and natural, not the Religious Right.

If this chick is old enough to be voluntarily and happily *suck her boyfriend's penis like a professional* while he films it, I don't see how we can consider it child porn. It's like kids who rob convenience stores and can't get charged because of their age. Give me a break -- they know what they're doing. They know the consequences. Thanks to TV, they know more about the law than adults do! Kids are growing up faster nowadays, kids are normally having sex in grade 7 and possibly earlier. Child porn, on the other hand, is taking children who are of the age that it is totally unnatural (way before puberty) and they have no idea what they're doing, and are usually forced against their will and are crying and hurt. And I would think that it's always an adult filming it, not a happy participant.
Re:It was illegal by esanbock · 2004-12-22 16:10 · Score: 1

"Someone(I dont remember who)"

Uh-oh. Generally speaking ,the cops don't like the old "I don't remember who" routine. If you just turn yourself in, along with all copies of the video in your possession, they might go easy on you.

With good behavior, you might be looking at less than 2 years + some probation. But remember that each copy of the video they find is an additional count. In this case, I hope you didn't take backups. See if the prosecutor can waive registering you as a sex offender. That would make it tough to find employment.
Re:It was illegal by shyampandit · 2004-12-22 16:18 · Score: 1

Well.. I was mistaken as it is not child porn as they are both above 16 years of age. Also I dont have the video in my possession so stop yabbering about that!
Re:It was illegal by esanbock · 2004-12-22 17:57 · Score: 1

You're not helping your case. The age of consent is 16, but any image or video of a person under the age of 18 engaging in sexual activity is considered child pornography. Maybe they will go easy on you for not knowing the difference. Either way, I say come clean as soon as possible.

Still Waiting for the Day by RAMMS+EIN · 2004-12-21 21:57 · Score: 1

I'm still waiting for the day that people recognize that (1) what people do with a service is those people's business and (2) it's simply not feasible for service providers to check everything.

Once we have settled that, perhaps we can just go back to the perfectly reasonable model where you just file a complaint with the service provider, which can then take appropriate action.

Next up after the commercial break: AT&T director sentenced to 5 years jailtime because of indecent phone calls routed through AT&T's network.

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Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.

Re:Still Waiting for the Day by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 22:40 · Score: 0

I'm still waiting for the day that people recognize that (1) what people do with a service is those people's business and (2) it's simply not feasible for service providers to check everything.

India's leaders and civil servants have a strong control-freakish tendency, and you've got to remember, in a democracy, people get the government they want (I'm an Indian citizen and I'd wager my libertarian ideas place me in a 0.1%-size minority in this country).

Hell, forget online services, I'm still waiting for the day India will recognize the concept of "protected speech".

India is pretty free by many standards, but I long for a day when speech (even hate speech) is protected by the constitution. As things stand, freedom of speech is allowed, but there are so many exceptions ("inciting communal hatred", etc) that there is scope for too much abuse.
Re:Still Waiting for the Day by RAMMS+EIN · 2004-12-21 23:22 · Score: 1

Hmm, you may want to be careful about hate speech. We've had some of that here in the Netherlands, and several people have been killed or injured for it, and several churches and mosques have been damaged or even destroyed. I wish people would just silently ignore lunatic hate spreaders...

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Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.

Ummm, She Was 16... by jabberwocky_rt · 2004-12-21 21:58 · Score: 0

RTFA:

"The trouble started a few days after the teenager made the recording, when someone tried to sell a video clip of him and his 16-year-old girlfriend...."

The girl was 16 for crap sake!

While I agree that going after the CEO of the auction site might be a little extreme (barely), the whole thing does bring up a very important question:

Just how much responsibility can we place on the shoulders of public auction sites in regards to ILLEGAL activities performed by their users.

Re:Ummm, She Was 16... by dJOEK · 2004-12-21 22:03 · Score: 4, Insightful

Take off that American blindfold of yours.

there are plenty of countries where the age of consent is much much lower.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/

Your culture and views are not globally accepted, and that is how it should be.

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Exercise caution when modding this message up: the author acts like a jerk when his karma is excellent.
Re:Ummm, She Was 16... by tarunthegreat2 · 2004-12-21 23:07 · Score: 2, Informative

Yea, and that site is a crock of shit. I think this is a slightly more credible source.

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Re:Ummm, She Was 16... by term8or · 2004-12-21 23:13 · Score: 1

Take off that American blindfold of yours. there are plenty of countries where the age of consent is much much lower.

Firstly, the age of concent is not really relevant in a situation where the pornography is being sold without the concent of the girl. And the actual crime these people have been arested for is not underage sex, but distributing pornography

There is a second issue lurking in the article. That of prison conditions. Is it really right to lock a man up with 70 other untried defendants before he is even found guilty? I think not.

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"As a writer / novelist you might want to spellcheck your sig. :) " - AC
Re:Ummm, She Was 16... by Karma+Farmer · 2004-12-21 23:40 · Score: 1

That of prison conditions. Is it really right to lock a man up with 70 other untried defendants before he is even found guilty? I think not.

You're lucky you don't live in America, where untried and even uncharged persons are incarcerated in general populations all the time.
Re:Ummm, She Was 16... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 16:03 · Score: 0

Only on /. can you turn a discussion on Indian excesses into another 'hate the USA' opportunity. Ain't it great?

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by barnseyboy · 2004-12-21 21:58 · Score: 1

the 'god of fucking' - now theres a label that must be hard to live with.

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eBay should act by idiotnot · 2004-12-21 22:03 · Score: 0, Flamebait

And suspend operations in India until this matter is resolved. If it is not resolved correctly, they, and other American companies should consider terminating all activties in India. I know I, as a consumer, will be hesitant to corporations who persist.......

Yes, yes, I know, there's little chance of an evil big corporation doing the right thing. But telling them what they ought to do is a good start to get them to move in the right direction.

And let's hope there's some hardcore diplomatic wrangling going on at the State Department to get this resolved.

Re:eBay should act by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 05:21 · Score: 0

the US gov is not angry because of what happened, they rejoice thinking that india unrightfully jumped to the DMCA. what's the connection anyway?

Need to Correct Facts in the News Item (Slashdot) by pilanian · 2004-12-21 22:03 · Score: 2, Informative

The arrested student (Ravi Raj) is from IIT-Kharagpur and not IIT-Delhi.

The students (both minors legally) are from a school in Delhi.

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-- Raj

Re:The girl cant complain by Peeteriz · 2004-12-21 22:05 · Score: 1

In many countries they both would be considered not minors, as 16 years is a perfectly good age of consent, and they could get married against the will of parents, have sex without repercussions, etc.

It's not like this is some kind of kiddy rape, these are consentual activities by young adults having fun.

from the article... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 22:06 · Score: 0

"Ultimately we have to see bigger picture. We want to increase Internet penetration."

Because blowjobs are heller lame...

No, it's a travesty that... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 22:09 · Score: 0

No, it's instead a travesty that not more CEO's, ones unlike this fellow who absolutely do deserve such a prison, do not spend any time at all behind bars for their misdeeds any more. My prison short list would include Ken Lehey, Gates and Balmer, and that fugly guy from SCO. I am also reminded that Mr. Gates walks as a free man for crimes that a mear century ago did get CEO's some time in Jail, such as Mr. Watson from IBM. Back then the Shermen anti-trust acts were taken much more seriously.

What is the problem? by Peeteriz · 2004-12-21 22:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

Honestly, I can't see what the hassle is about?

It's not like this is some kind of kiddy rape, these are consentual activities by young adults having fun.

The girl, while punished by her parents, has accused the attackers of hypocrisy, saying "who doesn't do it? Don't you have sex?"

In many countries they both would be considered not minors, as 16-17 years is a perfectly good age of consent, and they could get married against the will of parents, have sex without repercussions, etc.

I understand that child porn laws might apply to some pervert uncle seducing his 12 year old relative, but it is clear that 16 year old having consentual sex with a 17 year old is NOT what these laws should apply to. Same thing with a 19 year old with a 17 year old 'minor'.

Re:What is the problem? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:15 · Score: 0

In many countries they both would be considered not minors, as 16-17 years is a perfectly good age of consent, and they could get married against the will of parents, have sex without repercussions, etc.
Other countries are irrelevant for this discussion. This happened in India, where arranged marriages are still common, so Indian law -- and Indian law only -- applies.
Re:What is the problem? by nwbvt · 2004-12-22 05:01 · Score: 1

The sex was consentual. The filming of it was not. That is where the problem lies.

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Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by trash+eighty · 2004-12-21 22:14 · Score: 1

child porn? isn't the age of consent in India 16?

Re:The girl cant complain by stiggle · 2004-12-21 22:14 · Score: 1

But according to the local law - its not.
So since in some countries the age of consent is 12 or 13 - does that mean any porn containing 13 year old is perfectly legal anywhere else?

Just because you're country does it - doesn't mean everyone else can.

Otherwise we'd all have the Dutch laws and be smoking canabis happily while watching the hookers in the shop windows advertising.

Sheesh... by TLLOTS · 2004-12-21 22:17 · Score: 3, Funny

"...two high school students from Delhi Public School filmed themselves having oral sex..."

"a college student from IIT Delhi, offered his VCD of the 157-second clip"

157 seconds... sheesh, they really need to learn to take their time and enjoy it ;)

Re:Sheesh... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:08 · Score: 0

157 seconds... sheesh, they really need to learn to take their time and enjoy it ;)
Like all good porn, it was actually only 73.5 seconds, but it was looped to make it seem longer. (I bet the guy wishes he could do something to his tiny wiener to make it seem longer.)

amen brotha. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 22:24 · Score: 1, Funny

Canada is where it's at. KinK.

error in story by bakwas_internet · 2004-12-21 22:30 · Score: 1

the student selling the VCD was from IIT Kharagpur not IIT Delhi as written above

Re:error in story by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 02:58 · Score: 0

Why are there so many jokers saying "Not from IIT Kharagpur, from IIT Delhi", blah blah. Its not like the whole institute is in on it...is it :D

Porn is good business by rudy_wayne · 2004-12-21 22:31 · Score: 1

From the MSNBC coverage of this story:

"Police say they arrested Bajaj because he violated India's Information Technology Act of 2000, which makes a criminal offense "publishing, transmitting, or causing to publish any information in electronic form, which is obscene."

Followed by a quote from an Indian government official saying that they need to re-examine this law because they "don't want to send the wrong message to foreign investors"

In other words, porn is big business and we surely don't want to scare people away.

Re:Porn is good business by sunsrin · 2004-12-22 06:43 · Score: 1

The IT Act is actually pure trash. They wanted a law and so got in a few so called 'experts' and so we had a IT act. Hardly anyone has been convicted before this. These cases involved obscene mails, photos sent by email. The internet penetration is very low and the police have no clue how to go about it whenever they receive a complaint.
There has not been a REAL BIG problem in terms of a online credit card fraud or a bank fraud. The Baazee thing is blown out of proportion and the arrest of the guy is really sad when some of the central ministers we have are criminals accused of murder and scams. But as we say it here, It happens only in India !

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Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 22:34 · Score: 0

Marilyn Manson doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by jigyasubalak · 2004-12-21 22:36 · Score: 0

> Porn over the age of consent is legal in India.

Wrong! Porn, even over the age of consent is illegal in India. India, though the originator of kamasutra, currently has a very holier than thou moral police in place. It's so frustrating for us horny males.

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The best planning can be done after the project completes.

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by t-10056 · 2004-12-21 22:37 · Score: 2, Informative

According to this, age of consent in India is in fact 16.

Please mod parent up by cerberusss · 2004-12-21 22:44 · Score: 1

Please mod parent up. This is informative!

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8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?

Re:The girl cant complain by identity0 · 2004-12-21 22:47 · Score: 2, Informative

I'm not disagreeing with the parent post, but I hope that they don't "throw the book" at the guy that was in the video.

Child porn laws are there to protect children from predators, not punish kids for stupid mistakes they make while they're teenagers. I know several people who did stupid stuff like that, taking "racy" pics when they were in high school, which were probobly technically illegal. Kids on hormones do stupid things like that, putting them in prison will not help them at all.

So let me get this straight. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 22:54 · Score: 0

She was *REALLY* stupid with someone who was a *COMPLETE* *ASS-CLOWN*.

And this isn't in any way her fault.
Nor is it the fault of the ass-clown.
And it's not the fault of the guy who made the VCD.
The person most directly responsible for all the inequities that might have transpired against her is the CEO of the Auction site?

Umm. Yeah, nice vote for personal responsability. Do the world a solid, don't raise any kids, wolves would do a better job.

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by krayfx · 2004-12-21 22:55 · Score: 1

18 for girls, 21 for boys, but thats for getting married. but for other purposes - its 18 - say voting rights, alcohol, driving license, and all kinds of other stuff.

Re:The girl cant complain by Peeteriz · 2004-12-21 23:00 · Score: 1

Well, but you're wrong - in India, the age of consent is 16 years, so their sex is completely legal.

Criminals are born like this..... by riteshm · 2004-12-21 23:02 · Score: 2, Insightful

.... so even Slashdot is added to my list now.

Let me tell you about a different issue arising out of the whole situation.

The IIT student Ravi Raj is still not pronounced guilty! But still the Indian Hypocrite media did what they should never do. They published his name (Nobody knows the names of the guy and girl who had sex), his dad's name, his dad's profession and his home address in headlines! Now my narrow-minded Indian society won't let this guy or his family live easily. This guy even if pronounced not guilty by the court, will not be able to live a clean life in the future. His IIT degree is already taken away, now his career is in shambles.

Oh by the way, almost all IITians see porn in their dorms (they usually have 5% girls in their batch). This guy's only crime was he tried to act over-smart. But shouldn't he be given another chance? For God's sake, he is not a criminal who's whereabouts to be told to the whole world!

For more info: check http://riteshm.blogspot.com/2004/12/iit-and-dps.ht ml

Re:Criminals are born like this..... by tarunthegreat2 · 2004-12-21 23:24 · Score: 1

No this guys crime was profiting from the misfortune of a woman, whose only flaw was being made an ass of out of her boyfriend. He deserves punishment for that. If this guy is such a nice respectable hard-working engineer, why did he feel the need to sell this video, which shows sexual acts involving a MINOR. The law is the law. This asshole wanted to make some money of this, and he deserves punishment.How would you like it if somebody sold pictures of your younger, 16-year-old sister giving a blow job to somebody? Maybe if he did what other IITians do, like study, or try and help his country get out of poverty, he wouldn't be in this mess. I know when I wake up in the morning, my first thought is not: Hmmm, how can I ruin another teenager's life today?

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My Favourite Meme
Re:Criminals are born like this..... by tarunthegreat2 · 2004-12-21 23:28 · Score: 1

Also, they did not publish the names of the guy and girl having sex because they are minors, and thus their names are not mentioned. This applies to ALL criminal cases involving minors. The media is NOT ALLOWED to publish their names.

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My Favourite Meme
Re:Criminals are born like this..... by riteshm · 2004-12-21 23:37 · Score: 1

Yes, he did a stupid thing and ought to be punished. But the media was pronouncing him as if he is the "Porn King" of the country. The clip was anyways making rounds throughout the world and he is not the ONLY one to blame for the misfortune of the girl. Who is to be really blamed for is the 16-yr old girl's 17-yr old boy friend and this boy-friend's friends who forwarded the clip ahead (Now dont say 17 year is an age when you cannot decide whats right/wrong). Thankfully the boy-friend is now caught..
The blame goes more to the Delhi VCD shopkeepers who made the VCDs available in Rs 40 for everyone's pleasure. Why didnt the media tell us the names of those shopkeepers arrested (if at all they were) or the guys who bought the clips from the IIT guy? This shows the double standards of the media who would jump into anything thats spicy and has BIG names (like IIT) associated with it.
Pure Evil Capitalism?
Re:Criminals are born like this..... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 03:56 · Score: 0

Oh no, this girl is a victim! Puhhlease.

I bet this girl will not do such a stunt ever again.

I wouldn't like if this happened to my younger sister but I can damn well bet it would be the best lesson of her life - more valuable and effective than even the best parenting can be. She certianly wouldn't be doing that kind of thing again.
Re:Criminals are born like this..... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:56 · Score: 0

Guy's name is Hemant Chugh, girl's name is Aparna Bedi.

Posting AC don't want legal trouble and stuff.
Re:Criminals are born like this..... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 09:10 · Score: 0

almost all IITians see porn
While this comment is largely true, you do have to recognize that hardly anyone at IIT is dumb enough to put up porn for sale! I mean - think about hygiene, people! :-)
I personally can't sympathize with this Ravi Raj - he more or less brought the publicity onto himself. He probably wouldn't have been expelled (merely embarassed) had he gone out into the city and used a cybercafe, or better still, used a private Internet connection (his own or some friend's). When you misuse the campus resources (including hostel resources) /and/ do that in the loudest manner possible, you don't really leave the admin much choice. Yes, Indian society is hypocritical in several things, but those are the rules boys. Either play by them or move to another country or get arrested and humiliated. He ought to have been smart enough to know the consequences.
BTW, isn't he at IIT Kharagpur? The story submission mentioned IIT Delhi though.
-Anonymous IIT Madras alumnus.

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by manavendra · 2004-12-21 23:02 · Score: 4, Informative

This has to be the most ignorant and trollish post on /. ever

Kama has found mentioned in texts as early as the Vedas. Initially he was regarded as a creative spirit who welled out of Purusha, the supreme male element. Some parts of the Vedas go even farther and say that Kama himself was the supreme creative being, self-existent and sprung out of the cosmic waters at the beginning of time. In this context he was the supreme god who created everything else and whose first emanation was desire and whose second was the power to achieve that desire.

The Vedas are texts prepared over long lengths of time by diverse persons and the older versions were modified frequently. Thus Kama is found mentioned in many forms, all of them being some aspect of creativity.

Later, as Hindu Mythology progressed and developed into what it is today, Kama became identified with sexual desire, a more frivolous aspect of his creativity. Kama is depicted as a handsome youth who carried a bow entwined with flowers and shot arrows that produced love in their targets - That's your cupid.

The aim of Kama in Indian literature deals with pleasure and love. It is hypothesized that Kama teachings came into existence because of frustration in married life in a patriarchal society where marriages were arranged for convenience, while marriages of love were uncommon. The Kama literature was written in a technical format and is thought to have been written for the people of the higher castes because the social atmosphere of the time permitted very little private time for a husband and wife. Sexual relations were seen as the only allowable token of affection a husband could show his new bride, but at the same time, sex was a source of anxiety for the couple because it was one of the only activities privately shared by the couple and stood as the grounds for which the relationship was based. The lower castes did not have such problems because the men and women interacted on a daily basis, and therefore were able to develop relationships not solely based on sexual performance.

The best known of the Kama literature is Vatsyayana's Kamasutra, which was written around the third century C.E. It is a technical account of the social structure dealing with manners, morals, sexology, and culture in the third century.

This has now been bastardised by a western interpretation, that translates the very connotation of Kama to fucking.

If you've had a girlfriend, I'm sure you'd know there's a difference between sex and making love.

You can read more about Eastern Indian mythologies and beliefs at:

www.deliriumsrealm.com
www.pantheon.org
I could write about "Soma" or "Sura", but I'm sure you'd conveniently choose to ignore that, just like you'd this post

--
http://efil.blogspot.com/

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by trash+eighty · 2004-12-21 23:03 · Score: 1

16 for sex i think, according to the AOC website anyway. i think calling this child porn is a little inflammatory to be honest.

With a wink and a nod.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 23:03 · Score: 0

Do you really think the Indian government is really going to sweat the Indians what *would* end up with a ferret gnawing on their genitals in Gitmo? If push comes to shove I think we know what the majority would want to do with the minority we're talking about.

Here's why the eBay Indai CEO is in trouble by losttoy · 2004-12-21 23:03 · Score: 4, Informative

Baazee's CEO is not being held for selling porn!! Nor is this about moral standards in India!!

First, read the law. The IT Act 2000 says:
Section 67
===========
Publishing of information which is obscene in electronic form
Whoever publishes or transmits or causes to be published in the electronic form, any material which is lascivious or appeals to the prurient interest or if its effect is such as to tend to deprave and corrupt persons who are likely, having regard to all relevant circumstance, to read see or hear the matter contained or embodied in it, shall be punished on first conviction with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to five years and with fine which may extend to one lakh rupees and in the event of a second or subsequent conviction with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to ten years and also with fine which may extend to two lakh rupees.

79. Network service providers not to be liable in certain cases
For the removal of doubts, it is hereby declared that no person providing an service as a network service provider shall be liable under this Act, rules or regulations made thereunder for any third party information or data made available by him if he proves that the offence or contravention was committed without his knowledge or that he had exercised all due diligence to prevent the commission of such offence or contravention.
Explanation.- For the purposes of this section,-
(a) "network service provider" means an intermediary;
(b) "third party information" means any information dealt with by a network service provider in his capacity as an intermediary;

Baazee(eBay India) published the sale of the child pornographic material and benefitted from such sale by means of commissions earned. Since they benefit from the sale of the material they should be held liable for the material sold through them. Also, it unlike AT&T which does not intend to benefit from the usage of their service for illegal purposes. In this case, allegedly, Baazee did not remove the porn sale item even after being informed, thereby indicating that they had no qualms from benefitting from such sale.

Re:The girl cant complain by tarunthegreat2 · 2004-12-21 23:05 · Score: 1

No it isn't. Now STFU.

--
My Favourite Meme

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by kahei · 2004-12-21 23:06 · Score: 1

Well said! -- my shortest ever slashdot post

--
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.

weird indeed ! by phreakv6 · 2004-12-21 23:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

It really dint make sense to me that they arrested the CEO of the company for this.For that matter those pictures was exchanged through mms last month,why dont u blame nokia CEO for making phones that enabled this sharing or even the Hutch/Airtel networks that enabled these gprs connections.

--
fifteen jugglers, five believers

let him by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 23:08 · Score: 0

For goodness sake who cares if I film some friends blowing each other and sell it on ebay!

And I wouldn't care if they were kids either.

But I guess this is India.

There's so much to care about in life people should really be more selective.

You insensitive clod! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 23:08 · Score: 0

Do you know how many travel agent sites you've caused to be slashdotted!

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by tarunthegreat2 · 2004-12-21 23:11 · Score: 1

BZZZZTTTTTTTTT! Wrong. Close, but no cigar. I think the age of consent in India is 18. And I have a feeling that my source a teency-weency bit more credible than yours, considering what's at stake.

--
My Favourite Meme

Re:Here's why the eBay India CEO is in trouble by losttoy · 2004-12-21 23:14 · Score: 1

Further, Baazee alongwith several other online indian stores have been summoned by the police in Bombay over the matter of listing fake watches (ones that use the brand name of global watch manufacturers) and other illegal wares on their site for sale. The issue is not just porn, it is selling illegal stuff that they are being pulled up for.

About time the police cracked down on these guys.

Other than that, this will lead to these guys cleaning up the content on their sites. Been to Baazee? Almost every section has listings of "X-ray vision" crap. Proof that no one at Baazee reviews what being posted for sale. Tonnes of illegal software is offered for sale alongwith porn and warez.

Re:The girl cant complain by tarunthegreat2 · 2004-12-21 23:15 · Score: 1

It is not the kids that will be punished. It is the peddling or display of a sexual act involving minors which will be punished. This kids were underage, and although technically illegal for them to have sex, they will not be prosecuted just for their act. The guy will be prosecuted for violating the woman's privacy and right to dignity or some such law, I forget which), and case against Baazee is for the distribution and profiting from the taping of an act involving minors, which they are according to Indian Law, despite what some trolls are claiming

--
My Favourite Meme

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by tarunthegreat2 · 2004-12-21 23:19 · Score: 1

It's not child porn. It's the depiction of sexual acts involving minors. They are minors. And the law makes the peddling of sex with Minors illegal. The same law is found in the United States constitution. Whether it's true or not, why do you think porn sites state clearly that all 'actors' are aged 18 and above? Because if they're not, the websites are liable for prosecution.

--
My Favourite Meme

Re:Here's why the eBay India CEO is in trouble by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 23:31 · Score: 0

So? Making the head of a company legally responsible for every item is absurd. Like regular eBay, I am assuming a place like this will probably have many thousands of listings. It is logistically impossible to try to screen what is being sold. eBay has hundreds (if not more) people working around the clock to randomly check auctions but yet quite a few prohibited items manage to get sold every day.

It is not like the CEO actually knowingly put the oral sex tape up himself.

Pornography unhealthy? by retards · 2004-12-21 23:41 · Score: 0, Troll

How about a (serious and objective) study proving a link between watching porno and some unhealthy effect on the watcher? Yeah, yeah, yeah, the porno industry is shitty and full of drugs, yadda, yadda, but hey, mining for coal is a lot more dangerous.

Do these puritans think 6+ billion people grew from spores? People have been fucking since the dawn of man. And yes, in the butt too! OMG!! *clutches <INSERT NAME OF PREFERRED HOLY BOOK OF FAIRY-TALES HERE>*

I don't see how the law is a "reaction" by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-21 23:52 · Score: 0

Unless the porn was copyrighted?

Re:I don't see how the law is a "reaction" by smchris · 2004-12-21 23:58 · Score: 1

Exactly. Seems like a cheap excuse to lever something like the DMCA into Indian law. Unfortunate.

Re:The girl cant complain by JumperCable · 2004-12-21 23:56 · Score: 2, Funny

I can't say I disagree. She got dinner at the same time.

How many pages for this essay? by dan_sdot · 2004-12-21 23:58 · Score: 1

Does this differ in any major way with the DMCA? What is being overlooked and what is the potential for abuse? What would you propose?

What is this, the essay question section of slashdot? I just got flashbacks to college.

dmca? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 00:07 · Score: 0

I thought the man had been collared for the fact that porno was being sold through the site..

I don't see why the DMCA is being bandied about here.. surely DMCA and obscene publications legislation are two very different things? Is this just another example of "any excuse will do, lets lay down some draconian copyright laws while we're here.."?

Is it just me? by Cytlid · 2004-12-22 00:22 · Score: 1

the Indian government is planning a law based on the DMCA that would establish the responsibility of the corporation when dealing with copyrighted materials.

Since when is a home video of students doing that stuff "copyright material"?

--
FLR

Re:Is it just me? by Xilman · 2004-12-22 01:38 · Score: 1

Since when is a home video of students doing that stuff "copyright material"?
In places that abide by the Berne Convention, since it was made. Most everywhere follows the Convention.

It is actually rather difficult to produce a video that isn't copyrighted.

Paul

--
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
Re:Is it just me? by WoBIX · 2004-12-22 10:07 · Score: 1

As soon as you produce any work, you or your employer own it and have copyright on the product.

Whether it's a poem, a novel, an application, or a pornographic video.

No one has the right to distribute or profit from its distribution without express permission.

Sure the guy that made it gave it away to his friends, but the fellow that put it up for sale had made no business arrangement with the creator and was therefore violating copyright.

Re:Porn in the USA. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 00:22 · Score: 0

I agree, they should give them away for free, I can't afford to keep paying for them!

just how many pr0n producers seek copyright anyway by museumpeace · 2004-12-22 00:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

The art. confuses me: How would a DMCA-style law which spells out copyright obligations of ISPs, users, etc have any impact on porn?
I don't see that DMCA has stemmed the tide of porn in the US. FAIK, the laws against porn in the US have an unintended consequence of reducing access and penalizing copying in ways that DMCA was supposed to provide for legit content and thus the ultimate beneficiary of the laws is the producers and scum-runners who don't have to compete with as much free copies of their "product" as do the musicians and legal movie industry.
Have you seen a smut-peddler's equivalent of MPAA going to judges and slapping subpoena's on file sharers?...maybe they don't need to do that?

--
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.

Re:After a frame by frame analysis ... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:00 · Score: 0

I agree. I saw the video and it was some of the worst porn I've ever seen.

Just some flatchested ugly teenage towelhead girl giggling as she apparently gave head to some guy's tiny pecker®

It was really hard to tell because the quality was utter shit and the guy's penis was so small that I'm not sure the video was high enough resolution to be able to discern something that small.

Execute all 4 million of them who break the law... by ardustry · 2004-12-22 01:02 · Score: 0

The US can then send 4 million replacement Indians back to fill in the void.

--

ardustry

so, whats the filename? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:06 · Score: 0

I didn't see yet the filename of what we are all talking about.

Just to be Safe by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:12 · Score: 0

I copyright all of my home made, illegal, high-school porn:)

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by gkuz · 2004-12-22 01:20 · Score: 1

The same law is found in the United States constitution.

Which Article and Section, please?

MOD PARENT UP! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:22 · Score: 1, Interesting

This thread and the comparison to Bhopal is interesting...

Wrong college stated, obligatory correction post by vmalik · 2004-12-22 01:33 · Score: 1

Some time later, Ravi Raj Singh, a college student from IIT Delhi, offered his VCD of the 157-second clip for sale on Baazee.
Ravi Raj is a student of IIT Kharagpur. Check out here and here

To All: RFA by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:33 · Score: 0

* There is no mention of the girl being underage, although 16 is underage is the United States --- it may not be in India.

"but you're ignoring the fact that this is the video of a girl which has been publicized without her consent."

* There is no mention of the girl being embarrassed or wanting the video removed, for all we know, she may have benefited from the sale.

* The auction site took the article down as soon as they discovered the "illicit" article.

* There is no mention of the video actually being sold through Bazzee.

* From what I can gather from the article, the 17 year lad had been distributing the video to friends, etc through his phone.

"She shared her intimate moments with someone she trusted, and the jerk betrayed her"

You are projecting. What happen? You can tell us. We care. Honest.

Where's my video camera?

A signficant difference in process ... by Gopal.V · 2004-12-22 01:34 · Score: 1

Railways and Postal service are government owned in India...

The point of this arrest is different. Someone (read high ranking police officer) called up this CEO and asked him to take the clip off the website. He apparently said "We'll do that on Monday, first thing". That pissed off the caller, who issued a warrant on this guy for Obstruction of Justice. The rest is in TFA ..

Maybe it was malice , maybe it was just zeal ... But you won't find a hotel owner say the same if they get call about some criminals in their hotel :)

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur

Re:A signficant difference in process ... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:45 · Score: 0

correct, the manager of the hotel would say "sorry, cant do ANYTHING for you"

This is like the Simpsons... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:35 · Score: 1, Funny

if you will recall whem Apu's son caught two of the Springfield High School teachers in the broom closet. He later reported to Apu that the male teacher was groping her "like the many arms of ganesh".

Re:This is like the Simpsons... by lachlan76 · 2004-12-22 17:45 · Score: 1

Actually, it was "As many arms as Vishnu, and they were all very busy"

Yay! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:36 · Score: 1, Funny

Forced celebacy for everyone. Finally, I'll be on equal footing!

Maybe we should replace Democracy with... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:38 · Score: 0

Maybe we should replace Democracy with Fascist Technocracy.

Kind of like enlightened despots who don't give a damn about government role in people's morality nor the concerns of it's citizens as far as life goes. All copyrights would be outlawed... Laywers sent to labor camps. People wouldn't have to have news channels to debate politics anymore... And corporations outlawed...

The only concern of a Technocratic government is the progress of technology in hopes to solve all problems through technology.

Anyone found of Ludditism would be tried by a military court and shot.

Of course this would be no place to raise children and this government would be at war with the western powers. Seeing that they have no concerns about morality and ethics they would have no qualms about cloning super soliders and self replicating flesh eating robots... Not that this would ever happen...

Oh wait... I think I'm describing China.

Thinking of doing business in India? by HangingChad · 2004-12-22 01:42 · Score: 1

Good incident to keep in mind. They arrest the CEO of a company for something one of their customers did. Wow, it's not even that bad in the US!

Yet.

--
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage

MOD PARENT SUPER SLEUTH by TheoMurpse · 2004-12-22 01:45 · Score: 1

oh snap, grandparent got BURNED!

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:46 · Score: 0

damn I wish AOL never opened their floodgates...

Such is doing business in India by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 01:51 · Score: 0

The CEOs are responsible for what their customers do.

Sounds like a good way to deal with the outsourcing issue if you ask me. It would be quite clever to see the bastards who took your job thrown in jail.

situation reversal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 02:08 · Score: 0

So the CEO arrested in India was a US citizen. I can't help thinking what would have happened if this were reversed, and an Indian citizen on an Indian passport was arrested in the US for a violation of the DMCA or similar. I doubt they would have been released on bail quite as quickly as he has been. Are foreign nationals even eligable for bail any more, or are all foreigners who are arrested in the US automatically terrorists?

Re:situation reversal by wk633 · 2004-12-22 04:02 · Score: 1

e.g. Dmitri Skyalrov

What about the boy? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 02:21 · Score: 0

He should be ashamed of lasting only 157 seconds in a video going around the net. Or is 2.5 minutes good for a high school Indian?.

eMule by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 02:27 · Score: 0

Looking for the AVI? Go on eMule, connect to Razorback2.
Search for "puram" or "dps rk puram".
It is an AVI file.

Interesting... by robyannetta · 2004-12-22 02:28 · Score: 1

Somewhat offtopic, but oddly ontopic...

Come to think of it, Brazil is one of those few countries that does not recognize international copyrights. They don't have a DMCA-type law. Brazil says "Come here, copyright your product here, pay us tons of money to fund our government."

The only copyright violations they recognize are massive high-profile ones that make ALL the international news channels, other than that, they really don't care.

On the dowside to this, I heard a report a while ago that said 90%+ of software used in Brazil is pirated.

--
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.

Chief of eBay India bitten by publicity hounds by 36-bitter · 2004-12-22 02:34 · Score: 1

I must say this has the smell of "forget logic, what would get us the most airtime?" The person who actually offered the thing for sale is a known individual with a known locality, but they instead arrest the head of BaaZee, which is the seller's *victim*?

And I don't follow the logic of the "DMCA-like" law's relationship to this either, unless the filmmakers want to sue the guy who burned the VCDs (which seems...unwise).

Re:After a frame by frame analysis ... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 02:50 · Score: 0

tiny? I had a bigger dick than that *before* i hit puberty

Re:After a frame by frame analysis ... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 03:00 · Score: 0

why do asians in general have small dicks?

What is the connection? by nurb432 · 2004-12-22 03:07 · Score: 1

I dont see a connection between 2 people filming their own personal porno and copyright issues?

Did i miss something here, or is it just an excuse to get DMCA type laws enacted over there, with ( snowed ) public support..

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----

Re:After a frame by frame analysis ... by tcr · 2004-12-22 03:18 · Score: 1

Ah, the inevitable outsourcing to India flame on Slashdot... :-)

--

Information wants to be beer.

More about how to rectify a false arrest by adsl · 2004-12-22 03:19 · Score: 1

It appears that the Police acted incorrectly in arresting the ceo. The Laws don't back the arrest up, especially in a case where the provider totally co-operates, stopping the offense and helping the Police directly with their investigation. All of this took place. So I can see valid reasons for the outrage at EBay. More to the point is how the Police now react to correct their embarassing mistake. As usual Police and Judges find difficulty in saying "Oh sorry we erred and we squash the arrest". Much more likely they will keep this guy on a string for weeks and months, hoping the interest in the matter dies away and they can quietly drop any further action. Usually with a statement like "We fully investigate and find insufficient evidence to proceed with a prosecution". i.e. telling as few people as possible and not really issuing an appropriate apology.

Wrong Information by neeraj_iitd · 2004-12-22 03:21 · Score: 1

The IIT student involved is from IIT Kharagpur and not IIT Delhi.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1155587,0 00 80001.htm

South Park by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 03:22 · Score: 1, Funny

Reminds me of the South Park Chinpokomon episode. Funny stuff...

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 03:24 · Score: 0

The same law is found in the United States constitution.

Please, for the love of god, tell me you didn't vote in the last election. You can't possibly be informed if you don't have the slightest fucking clue what's in the US Constitution. It's not a long or complicated document! Try reading it some time.

shyampandit is a felon by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 03:24 · Score: 0

he admits to intentionally downloading and watching child pornography

Creepy Amateur Porn? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 03:28 · Score: 0

Man, that's weird amateur porn. Someone should post the transcript of what they are saying. It's weird the guy beggin the girl for whatever ... man, that's creepy shit.

cnn's video by unikorn · 2004-12-22 03:28 · Score: 1

the cnn video clip http://premium.cnn.com/pr/video/law/2004/12/20/hai dar.india.porn.arrest.cnn.jsp?(none) also shows a part of the video, though they have blurred it out.

Re:cnn's video by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:25 · Score: 0

No it's not blurred intentionally - it's just the Real Player

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 03:31 · Score: 0

I'll see your source and trump it with the actual law. If you look at section 375 of the Indian penal code which covers rape, it clearly establishes the age of consent to be 16 years of age. Why Interpol left out that particular section when they quoted all the others is questionable. They are also playing fast and loose with the context of "illicit intercourse" which is only relevant to the laws covering prostitution.

It's not worth it by Dr.+Cody · 2004-12-22 03:41 · Score: 2, Funny

The clip might be 157 seconds long, but 130 of those are the musical numbers.

You know by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 03:52 · Score: 0

I think American Executives should move to India, they both seem to be same minded.

Re:After a frame by frame analysis ... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:00 · Score: 0

I have heard that it is the same reason they have short noses - things that stick out less are less likely to freeze. It makes sense, at least in the more harsh asian climates. As for the more tropical areas of asia surrounding Australia, I have no idea.

Wha... Why... Hahn? by HomerNet · 2004-12-22 04:06 · Score: 1

What in the biggest steaming pile of eskimo dinosaur crap does a teenage pr0n video that got sold by a third party on an auction site have to do with copyrighted matierial in any sense of the word?!!

--
I have no tag line

Idiot by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:15 · Score: 0

now the taping and distribution is illegal and morally reprehensible, it is not even close to rape.

I seriously doubt you are anywhere near qualified to make that assessment. Until you become a woman and either of those things happen to you in an highly conservative eastern culture stfu.

Re:Idiot by blueskies · 2004-12-22 06:58 · Score: 1

seriously doubt you are anywhere near qualified to make that assessment. Until you become a woman and either of those things happen to you in an highly conservative eastern culture stfu.
Wow. It is good you posted as an AC, since you decided to make such idiotic statements. Rape does not depend on the victim being female, and it is mainly not a sexual act--it is an act of violence.
Re:Idiot by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 08:54 · Score: 0

I hear that a lot about rape not being a sexual act. It certainly is violent, but that doesn't mean it isn't also sexual act. I understand what the motivation is behind this claim, but it seems to me to be entirely inaccurate. The problem is that sex and violence are intertwined. There are also many ways to be violent that are non-sexual.
Re:Idiot by hesiod · 2004-12-22 09:19 · Score: 1

Yeah, Idiot... The one who could realize that rape doesn't happen to JUST WOMEN.
Re:Idiot by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 13:47 · Score: 0

Wow. It is good you posted as an AC, since you decided to make such idiotic statements. Rape does not depend on the victim being female, and it is mainly not a sexual act--it is an act of violence.

Offtopic. We are talking about events that happened to an Indian woman don't confuse the issue.

Does this differ in any major way with the DMCA? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 04:23 · Score: 0

Does this differ in any major way with the DMCA? What is being overlooked and what is the potential for abuse? What would you propose?

Can we please stop asking these lame ass questions in every fsking post? You don't need to bait for comments, everybody is going to post thier opinion regardless.

that does not make sense by PMuse · 2004-12-22 04:28 · Score: 3, Funny

From one of the articles: Explaining the rationale for such a law, a senior government official said, "In the MMS case the objectionable clip was put on the website by someone who had access to it and not necessarily the person behind it. It was an infringement of the copyright. Moreover, despite the incident becoming a public knowledge the clip was not removed."

What a pathetic attempt to use a media event / scandal to promote something unrelated to it! No one in India or elsewhere is worried about copyright here. The boy certainly hasn't made a claim for lost revenues! Whoever the shill is who is claiming that the MMS incident justifies an Indian DMCA ought to be embarrassed to be selling this bunk. There really is only one thing to say to an argument like this:

"Ladies and gentlemen this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee--an eight foot tall Wookiee--want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!

"But more important, you have to ask yourself, what does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense!

"Look at me, I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense!

And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room . . . does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense. If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests."

--
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)

Re:Even more...But by Graemee · 2004-12-22 04:45 · Score: 1

she's in Canada now. Going to India won't help.

NO: Age of consent 16: she 17. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 05:05 · Score: 0

India: agen fo ceonsent: 16.

IITian? No... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 05:09 · Score: 0

He is not an IIT Btech student, your typical IITian. He is just an MSc in Geology. He has had plenty ladkis in his undergrad, which was in a different college. He has prior history of putting up his girls pics for sale. He is way older than your IIT undergrad.

I for one object to people using the IITian name on him. an IITian would not have put it up for sale that simply.

Re:just how many pr0n producers seek copyright any by nwbvt · 2004-12-22 06:24 · Score: 1

The point is that the DMCA limits the liability of a service provider for the content it provides (as long as it takes certain steps once notified of its content). In this context, the law would likely limit the legal liability for companies like Baazee for the content that is published under it.

Its funny, for all the bitching people like to do with regard to the DMCA, very few people actually know what it says.

--
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.

Ultimately Destructive by denissmith · 2004-12-22 07:21 · Score: 1

This is obviously an attempt to use the unfortunate girl to get the I.N.D.I.A. PATRIOT act passed. If the description is at all correct then the law would have devatating consequenses to the Indian Internet - all ISPs would need a full-time monitor of all posts! This is either a poorly crafted law or they really want to shut that sucker (the internet) down.

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I have nothing to hide. So, why are you spying on me?

where does the buck stop by maxwells_deamon · 2004-12-22 09:27 · Score: 1

If you do not stop with the person who posted it and prosecute anyone in the chain of command things get silly very quickly!

Need to arrest the following folks:

ISPs who provide service to the company
computer/network hardware makers
government officials who allow internet access
Indian government
Everyone who voted for them
people of earth for allowing this government to exist ....
God

All of whom (except God) were not aware of the problem ahead of time.

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 09:33 · Score: 0

If you look at section 375 of the Indian penal code which covers rape, it clearly establishes the age of consent to be 16 years of age.
Chewbacca defense. This case was NOT rape. It was consensual sex all the way through. Article 375 does not apply. Now stop trying to spread FUD.

COrrection by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 09:38 · Score: 0

That guy who was caught selling the clip was not from IIT Delhi, he was from IIT Kharagpur.:D

Re:The girl cant complain by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 13:22 · Score: 0

Nice link. Thanks. So the age of consent in Canada really is 14. Damn. Gotta get my arse to Montreal for some fresh French-speaking 'tang.

mirror by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 13:33 · Score: 0

mirror

Re:mirror by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 15:12 · Score: 0

what is the codec that needs to be installed for this AVI?
Re:mirror by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 16:13 · Score: 0

1) Certainly looked like she was playing to the camera. I don't habla, but I'd bet that they both knew WTF was up.
2) If he had a decently sized pecker, he might have kept her quieter.
3) Boobs are nice in any size. In this instance, all objects viewed may be smaller than they appear.

I give it **.

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by Rhone · 2004-12-22 14:03 · Score: 1

If you've had a girlfriend, I'm sure you'd know there's a difference between sex and making love.

I appreciated your informative post, but this part is a not-always-accurate stereotype! I have exchanges with my girlfriend (who just so happens to be Indian, actually) that go like this:

Me: Wanna make love?

Her: Ew, don't make it sound all wussy.

Me: Oh yeah, sorry. Wanna fuck?

Her (while jumping me): Hell yeah, bitch!

Okay, I admit my girlfriend is rather unique. :)

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 14:20 · Score: 0

Twit, I didn't say there was a rape, I merely pointed out the the OP citing of Interpol's website was in error because Interpol intrepretation of "illicit intercourse" got it wrong with respect to consent. All the sections they quoted had to do with prostitution which wasn't applicable here. Besides, what other section of law would you define "age of consent" for a minor? Determining an appropriate age for consent is crucial to the establishment of statutory rape laws, asshole.

Owned by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 14:43 · Score: 0

Who the fuck cares about some indian getting arrested. If you ask me, more should get arrested (and shot).

Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 16:00 · Score: 0

Must be one of the same guys that keeps dragging out that 'wall between church and state' and 'right to abortion' horseshit. That crap isn't in there, either.

Rape is an act of violence by tjstork · 2004-12-22 16:37 · Score: 1

Let's understand one thing. Rape is not a sex act, it is an act of violence and aggression and control. It is a physical power thing, not a sex thing.

--
This is my sig.

Re:Rape is an act of violence by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 12:33 · Score: 0

Total crap; the difference between beating the shit out of someone and fucking them whether they want it or not is profound, and indeed very sexual.

Re:After a frame by frame analysis ... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-24 14:10 · Score: 0

Hey, why don't 'we' save time and outsource the flame? I'm sure there's a call center full of Indian's with good English grammar who could write the entire flame while 'we' focus on our core competencies.

Slashdot Mirror

Chief of eBay's Indian Site Arrested, Released

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