Justin Frankel Reveals Life After Winamp

Joseph Gelinas writes "Speaking out for the first time on life after AOL/Nullsoft, Winamp creator Justin Frankel sat down with BetaNews to discuss his new endeavors. Starting a new company called Cockos, Frankel is leaving behind the mass market for his musical roots, but hints at revolutionary -- and presumably controversial -- things to come."

Comments

No Kidding....

[the_mad_poster]

I'm not clicking a link with a name like that. I'm afraid it might be a goatse troll...

Re:No Kidding....

[ZeroGee]

Seeing as how one of the programs available on that website is "Assniffer," it makes you wonder if he's naming things just to see if stupid people will actually use them in conversation.

Re:No Kidding....

[Hard_Code]

I for one think it's a nice leveraging of all that wads of money he made. "Sir, the, um, AssTastic 5000 has arrived...should I connect it to the, uh, sigh, Dumpulator?"

Jesusonic Looks Interesting

[FriedTurkey]

As someone who plays guitar, the Jesusonic looks interesting. Real time effects processing on a computer would allow an amazing amount of customizations of sounds on the fly. However, it doesn't seem very portable despite being a floor device. I don't see someone taking the monstrosity to a jam session. I think it would be more annoying being on the floor than just at a desk. Jesusonic has to be easier than programming those rack mount processors. Hopefully Jesusonic can grow into something to replace the cost prohibitive Pro Tools.

Re:Jesusonic Looks Interesting

[somethinghollow]

GarageBand is supposed to do on-the-fly filters. And I know Soundtrack does. Apple has been very staunch about on-the-fly effects not only in Audio, but video as well. GarageBand comes with iLife for $50. Soundtrack is $199. Neither of them will lighten your wallet too much.

I guess Jesusonic might be easier to control on-the-road than having a point and click computer to process your effects, but that is the only bonus I see to having it rather than a computer. But since it has a keyboard, I'm skeptical. If this was meant for the studio, I'd rather have a computer.

Re:Jesusonic Looks Interesting

[plover]

Perhaps you can have someone bear your CrusFX 1000 for you...

Re:Jesusonic Looks Interesting

[eno2001]

So does Ardour. I've been having a lot of fun using it to process my rackmount gear. Haven't tried it on a laptop though... I have it in my home studio.

Re:Jesusonic Looks Interesting

[Zeromous]

You are entitled to your opinion, but how is post production done any different than picasso adding to an unfinished painting.

Theres just plain no difference between this and an artist who performs their OWN post production. It is a means to acheiving the true sound texture you are looking for.

Feel free to frown on this activity, but computers are the new harpsichord, electric guitar and moog.
Only now I dont have to pay somone to make it sound the way I WANT IT.

Cheers.

Re:Jesusonic Looks Interesting

[ScottyUK]

lol, click the bad (double http) Ardour link in Firefox and it takes you to microsoft.com :|

Not very socially acceptable

[maxogden]

JF: Naming projects is often the hardest part. When I first started, it just came out. A moment of either stupidity (likely) or brilliance (not likely), we'll see. Yeah, its obviously hard for him, with names like Cockos, AssSniffer, and Jesusonic.

Re:Not very socially acceptable

[Lord_Dweomer]

"Yeah, its obviously hard for him, with names like Cockos, AssSniffer, and Jesusonic."

For all you Slashdotters who love to bash us marketing folks, people like Justin keep people like me in business. ;)

Re:Not very socially acceptable

[JoshRosenbaum]

For all you Slashdotters who love to bash us marketing folks, people like Justin keep people like me in business. ;)

Yes, because it's creative people like Justin who make the product, and without them, you'd have nothing to name. ;)

Lesson #1 in Business...

[_PimpDaddy7_]

Starting a new company called Cockos

That's a definite no-no...

Re:Lesson #1 in Business...

[parliboy]

Cockos? Sounds like a breakfast cereal for porn stars.

"Cock-O's. Now with nuts!"

Re:Lesson #1 in Business...

[DragonPup]

or CockOS. The OS for dicks...

The names he uses for software

[The_Rippa]

Justin and co. always writes great utilities, but it's really hard to suggest to your boss that the company should be using a tool called "asssniffer" or "ASS I/O".

I really see this as a growing market

[ACK!!]

Not really sure why but a lot of the marketing types around my office jam in bands and are very tech savvy.

I see this kind of product if promoted correctly having a very nice niche market among hardcore keyboard junkies and techy musician types.

Very interesting idea.

Hardware and software I want to use.

Hhhhhmmm .... Sounds like a hacker's grand ideal really.

quote

[_PimpDaddy7_]

Primarily these are a program called Assniffer (which is a HTTP sniffing program that logs the actual files transferred), and PathSync (which I use to interactively synchronize directories on different computers/drives). These are both available on cockos.com.

assniffer, logs, cockos...you put it together...

Cockos... wtf

[isa-kuruption]

I was going to ask what kind of crack he was sniffing and if he'd share, but I guess that's not the best question given the application 'assniffer'.

Best Line

[DarkHelmet]

Best line of the whole article:

Not only is it useful on computers, it allows people who don't want to spend money on a Jesusonic hardware device to go ahead and write new effects for the Jesusonic.

Now there is someone who is completely devoid of marketing, or corporate thinking. He actually has the notion of contributing something on the basis of realizing that some people won't pay for something.

I suppose at this point he's pretty much made for life, and doesn't have to worry about money anymore. Still, how admirable.

Re:Best Line

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only is it useful on computers, it allows people who don't want to spend money on a Jesusonic hardware device to go ahead and write new effects for the Jesusonic.

Now there is someone who is completely devoid of marketing, or corporate thinking. He actually has the notion of contributing something on the basis of realizing that some people won't pay for something.

Really? Unless I'm reading it wrong, it sounds like he's allowing people who don't own the product to increase the value of that product. Eventually, the product will become more and more attractive to non-buyers who will then buy it.

Huh?

[blackmonday]

First, it's a stupid name. Otherwise, the Jesusonic device looks interesting. I use an incredible device called the Pod XT that makes life very easy for recording, noodling around, or juicing up the amp. One of the things I wished was a way for people to program their own effects/amp modeling algorithms and let people share (or sell) them.

This gadget looks like it could make it happen. As far as how it looks, I'm sure it's a prototype which will eventually be a slick, portable gadget. I look forward to it.

Interesting

[albn]

...how my $900 PC can replace tens of thousands of dollars in effects processing. I remember seeing a reverb/delay for $3000 with many presets and you can program some yourself.

Okay, now that my PC can do effects processing, it can also be used as a multi-track to replace the Alesis ADAT that's has thousands of dollars in add-ons, and can replace a mastering studio and save me thousands there becasuse of my DVD/CD burner. What is still expensive are the instruments, consoles (yay AMEK), and the $14,000 tube mic.

I do not know. Somehow I just cannot let those old things go.

Re:Interesting

[The_reformant]

This is caused by two main things, firstly a PC has a LOT more raw processing power than any digital hardware fx unit. The reason its much cheaper is that PCs are a commodity item whereas high end musical equipment isnt hence the price difference.

However the best stuff is of course still analogue and remains quite pricey.

Re:Interesting

[albn]

"However the best stuff is of course still analogue and remains quite pricey."

That's up for debate. The digital advocates of the day argued it has much better sound quality, bigger headroom, and signal to noise ratio can surpass 90dB. Also, the generation loss was minimal, but depending on your equipment (the old rule crap in, crap out comes to mind and why good cables, consoles, and maintainance). However, digital processing was VERY expensive. I recall a Marantz CD recorder was around $3,000 took up 5u's of rack space and also had an optional computer program which was an additional $10,000. So many opted for DATs and other digital recorders if the higher ends were too pricey. ADATs, DA-88's, DATs come to mind for multi-track and mastering equipment.

Analog on the other hand many advocates said it is "warmer" feel to the sound (which is true... sometimes you just cannot beat the vinyl sound :D), and at higher IPSs, the sound got better, (but man, you could go through the tape.) and sometimes, you could reach near digital quality with the right equipment albeit can be just as expensive once it is all said and done. I remember somebody not clipping at a +9mB when hitting a crash cymbal and it still sounded crisp and not flat. That was nice.

And I bet some can remember the the so-called 4-8 track "multi-track Fostex porta studios that used cassette tapes that went at a higher IPS, but still sounded like crap :D I remember those sold pretty well for budgets.

Now, with the CD/DVD burners are next to nothing AND come with software, it amazes me why more people are not getting serious with recording. The only thing that still needs to be perfected (which I doubt will ever happen) is the simulated high-end console, tube mic and instrument. I have never seen any digitized instrument that sounds as good as somebody with talent playing it.

Again, there is only so much a computer can do and comes a time when people make a piece of music have a quality all in itself.

There is more to a name

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's a stupid name" means people will be talking about it, and they won't forget it. Great PR.

And lets not forget how crazy "Nullsort" sounded when it was founded. $100m+ later, whose laughing now?

Company name != quality of product offered

Cockos, it's what's for breakfast

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, the name Cockos sounds like a gay cereal.

Re:Cockos, it's what's for breakfast

[shish]

One thinks you haven't spent enough time on slashdot - the "OS" part of the name obviously expands to "Cock Operating System"

Pathsync

[tayhimself]

Pathsync looks interesting for directory synchronization. Is there something to do this between two linux clients or windows and linux that is rsync or cvs based. Preferably GUI clients or easy to use ones. I need windows > linux backup and linux laptop > linux backup. I saw backuppc in the debian archives, but I'm intersted in user opinions as it is always so much better. Thanks!

Re:Pathsync

[jojo1835]

Check out http://www.ifolder.com/ . It's a half open source / half proprietary software piece that lets directories sync between computers, regardless of the OS. Lin to Win, Win to Lin, Lin to Lin, etc...

Enjoy!

Tim

Re:Pathsync

[electrichamster]

You'd be wanting Unison then: http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/

There's Win/Lin/Mac client's, both graphical and console... lovely little app :)

I'm suprised he's a windows geek

[digitalgimpus]

This isn't meant as flamebait but an observation:

Common hackers of his level of inovation, and to a degree hatred of authority/corporations really dislike windows and love the freedom and inovation of Linux.

Seems like everything he touches is Windows related.

Just suprising.

Though somewhat depressing...

it's inovators like him, who really make software people like. Say what you will about WinAmp... but it was one heck of a popular app. Same with everything else he was involved in.

HE is what Linux could really use: someone to create the golden tools.

Re:I'm suprised he's a windows geek

[Strudelkugel]

My guess is most non-programmer musicians run Windows, MacOS, Linux, in that order. I would also guess the percentages are quite lopsided in favor of Windows as well. His idea (and I think it's a very good one) is to bring effects processing creative freeedom to the music community, not promote one OS over another.

Re:I'm suprised he's a windows geek

[ScytheBlade1]

I call bullcrap. This IS slashdot, and likewise it's rare to see a "Windows Geek" get posted here.

Slashdot is also a serious minority. Compare the number of shashdotters to the number of people running windows 98 (at home). We're nothing in number. Consequently, go look at Channel 9. *Tons* of windows geeks. And suprise, some of them just may be worth listening too.

I'm not expecting too many people to care, but there ARE intilligent people who use windows. Justin Frankel just managed /. posting "about him", which is uncommon.

(*having premonitions of insightful troll*)

Re:I'm suprised he's a windows geek

[jarsonic]

Actually, as someone who knows Justin as at least an aquaintance, He dabbles with linux a bit, and really loves his Macs (he has a powerbook and a G4 Cube). He's ported winamp to mac for his own personal use (and to see if he could), and he's releasing jesusonic for mac, as well.

Jesusonic?!

[wild_pointer]

I bet you dont learn in marketing class to name you products "Jesusonic CrusFX 1000" and make it look like a cross!
Never ever bind religion to something you dont have to, it just causes trouble!

On the other hand, I would definitely want one! :)

Whatever he is working on...

[jstrain]

Whatever he is working on, I'm sure it really whips the Lamma's ass...

Re:Whatever he is working on...

[One Childish N00b]

Everyone's favourite WinAmp-related animal is a Llama. There's no such animal as a Lamma or a Llamma. The former is the name of a small island off the west coast of Hong Kong, however, but it's lack of an ass, whipped or otherwise, means the analogy still doesn't quite fit.

This is why he's got lots o money.

[teamhasnoi]

Give the software away, but tie the ease of use it to special hardware that he makes.

Lots of people will run this, and make presets, and do lots of stuff for free for him, while he sells the hardware that makes it usable (without having to hack it together yourself).

Genius. I think Apple tried something like that before...anyone heard of the iPod?

Re:p2p app

[marktaw.com]

I love Waste too. Though, I disagree with the /. idea that this was a subtle reference, he flat out told us he was going to release something that would revolutionize the internet.

If I had to guess, it would be a completely decentralized P2P app. A cross between Gnutella & BitTorrent, perhaps with some proxying for anonymity added on top. Proxying will slow you down, but confound the **AA, which he seems to love doing. If you could turn the proxying on & off, you could get a fast _and_ anonymous service. Fast for people who just want to download, anon for people who feel they need it.

Waste had a lot of protocols that would be useful for proxying, file transfer, etc. He should be able to build something like what I described on top of that.

Jesusonic --

[thatshortkid]

It really whips The Savior's ass!

nothing new, nothing novel

[paulbd]

95%+ of the posters on /., and perhaps even Frankel himself seem entirely unaware that the idea of his jesusonic project is nothing new at all.

there are several so-called "RT VST hosts" that do the same thing, and several standalone programs. most have been around for several years.

even on Linux (even!) we have tools like JackRack and EcaMegaPedal, not to mention the world's best live looper (SooperLooper). maybe Frankel's ideas about triggers might represent some slightly novel model for this kind of thing, but the authors of most of the stuff I've mentioned could probably add them in a day or two.

Re:nothing new, nothing novel

[neocrono]

You should realize Jesusonic has its own interpreted (JIT?) language for the effects, which probably has its roots in the "Signal Processing Sudio" DSP plugin for Winamp...which in turn probably stemmed from his experiments with the AVS visualization plugin for Winamp, and its various interesting modules such as "superscope," which plotted lines and points based on audio data coming in from Winamp. You specified exactly HOW using a relatively tiny proprietary language with a handful of math intrinsics, constants and operators. Very cool, and people did some terribly impressive things with it. It has quite a following.

In terms of flexibility, the only remotely comparable system to the Jesusonic I can think of off the top of my head is Native Instruments Reaktor--but that's a completely different, visual-centric concept. It acts more as a virtual circuitboard, you nest and drag audio/data/trigger connections between small, specialized modules such as "audio XOR" and "1 pole lowpass filter," chaining them to construct in much the same way you would with actual hardware.

Quoth the official site:
When you feel like you have exhausted combining the many included effects, and want to come up with something completely ridiculously new and never-done-before, you can make use of your keyboard, and write new effects (or take an existing effect and customize it). Using the integrated code editor, you can actually write simple code that will be compiled into fast machine code on the fly, letting you quickly try out effect ideas and push the realm of possiblity even farther. You can do all of this--without having to stop for any reason. While you edit the code, the effects still run. When you want to try your code out, hit one key and within a small fraction of a second you are hearing results.

I think it'd be very cool to rapidly prototype DSP effects in this manner, and be able to examine/modify the considerable library that's already there. I think he deserves a little more credit than you're giving him. And did anyone notice the software runs on linux Right Now(TM)?

the boy wonder

[poot_rootbeer]

Justin Frankel's accomplishments are notable in of themselves, but even more so when you consider that they were all achieved by a boy who's just now turning 13 years old... ...what, he's a grown man? And he still gives his projects names like "CrucFX" and "Assniffer"? That's pretty sad, actually.

Correction

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking out for the first time on life after AOL/Nullsoft

Correction, speaking out for the third time since leaving AOL.

Re:Perhaps We Need The Karma Police?

[BlueCup]

ok... I don't KNOW the truth... but after reading that, I'm inclined to believe that Dmitry, is insane. Maybe he's insane because he was cheated out of something, but I'm inclined to doubt it... more likely he was crazy before... for one thing... day long meditations, for 5 years, to clear out poison? Nobody does day long meditations for one day unless they're already crazy, much less for 5 years... intentional or not, that letter is a troll.

Re:Isn't "Guitar Rig" the exact same thing?

[Moofie]

"Isn't the point of playing an instrument actually playing it yourself?"

The point of playing music is to express yourself. Different artists use different media to do that.

What's the problem?