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Apple Releases Mac Mini
cranesan writes "The rumors of Apple releasing a small PC are confirmed. The Mac mini can be found at Apple's website. As expected, the box uses a G4 processor. You can order one today; estimate 3-4 weeks shipping date. Base unit starts at $499."
C'mon guys. This isn't news, especially since you reported it yourself here. It's just a two day old dupe of old news.
... in other news Microsoft unveils next generation Windows operating system... ""Windows XP".
This sig has been deprecated.
I know of at least 3 people who've already ordered theirs, how is this still news? Get with the program!
We're getting unconfirmed rumours that President Kennedy's been shot. Can anyone clarify this?
If they're going to make it BYODKM (or whatever it is), they could've at least included PS/2 ports...
Remember children, all generalizations are wrong.
Now if only they'd release some new type of ipod to go with this "Mac Mini" It could even be flashed based. It's a brave new world.
What? Another mini?
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
http://www.petitiononline.com/MacmiEU/petition.htm l
Anyone notice that all the stories on the front page are now listed as posted by 'samzenpus'? The fact that such a glaringly obvious dupe was posted kinda raised the 'this website has been hacked' alarm.
then why the g5 icon? yes yes picky picky :P
Yes, the Mac is more expensive in terms of raw computing power. But, a lot of people consider Mac OS X to be worth a significant premium over Windows XP.
But, most importantly, what tasks can you, as a user, do with a $500 PC that you can't with the $500 Mac?
As much as 'PC' has come to define a machine derived from the original IBM PC, 'PC' means "Personal Computer".
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
This was previously discussed on this Slashdot story. Also of interest is this announcement :
s .html
/. story discussing the Mac Mini, I believe this Mac Mini is doomed for a **huge** success. Good for competition. Good for everyone :-)
Apple announced their financial results for the fourth quarter today, reporting a profit of $295M, or $0.70 per share. They shipped 4.58M iPods, an increase of 525 % over the year ago quarter. But more surprisingly, Apple CPU sales were up 26% themselves over the year ago quarter. Over 1,046,000 Macs went found their way into customer's hands in the quarter.
See http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jan/12result
After reading comments from the other
Animoog.org
Come ON... this story was obviously posted just to get a thousand "DUPE!" comments...
Slashdot: -1, Troll
come ON, for a PC user with a little bit of extra money sitting around who's interested in a Mac, this is a great deal. They've already got all the stuff they need to run it, it's small, unobtrusive, powerful enough to do the things Macs do (ie, get your everyday work done), and is still pretty sexy.
Yes there are cheaper alternatives, but they're not THAT much cheaper. Paying $200 more for a Mac (using your math from above) is demonstrably better than paying $500+ more for a Mac, and the user experience is going to be pretty much the same for the buyer in either case.
That's without a DVD-ROM or any Software except XP Home (the Mac comes with the full version of OSX not a cut down version).
So you've got to add:
XP-Pro (at least)
DVD-ROM
Quicken 2005
Office
Video editing suite
*then* start comparing prices.
yes Its more expensive and slower, except if you value some of the excellent software it comes with and the small form factor its worth it.
imovie is an excellent video editor (enough better the compaq with various cheap editing packages)was abandoned...(Not to mention this apple machine comes with firewire, a requirement for getting video off the cam corder.)
iphoto is excellent photo storage tool.
OS X is pretty good to, but if you want a windows box go nuts..
This is so much not news, that all the redundant posts saying this isn't news isn't news, and even this post isn't a post. As a matter of fact, I'm questioning "isn't" right now, cuz it just "isn't" ... is it?
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
This $500 Apple is still insanely overpriced.
True, but when my retired mother wants a new PC and also wants to get one of those digital cameras everyone is buying, guess which one I'm going to suggest? I'm going to suggest the $600 box that won't require me to sit in front of it removing spyware and viruses for an hour every time I visit (which I do now for my in-laws, which has decreased since I put Mozilla on that machine). I look at the mac as a Linux for the rest of them, and if it costs a few hundred more up front, so be it.
All the price comparisons I've seen, including the 'in-depth' analysis on CNet, talk purely about the value of the hardware. (BTW, theirs is bogus, because they compare to boxes with crappy integrated graphics and no DVD player). The attraction of the Mac is in the software, mainly iLife. This is why people buy computers - to do stuff. Of the news site anayses I've seen, most of them don't even mention the bundled iLife software at all, yet it's the core of the digital lifestyle that Apple are selling. This is why comparisons of Windows PCs and Macs are nearly uniformly missing the point. A Mac isn't realy in the same product category as a PC. It's more like the product category of digital cameras, synthesisers and DVD players. Simon Hibbs
Who in their right mind buys memory from an OEM? Don't get on Apple's case about expensive memory, because it's true in the PC world too! Whether it's Dell, Sony, IBM, whoever - you're almost always better off dollarwise to buy your system with the least available memory, then buy the upgrade from someone else. With the exception of the occasional special deal, this has been true for as long as I can remember.
...?
Of course, this begs the question: does the mini allow user upgrades? Can't check because the Apple site isn't responding at the moment, but that little box looks to be shut tighter than a virgin's iPod.
*-*
What I see more focus on hardware design, the exact opposite of the clone fiasco. They are getting, and supporting, higher margins on their hardware because of their design engineering. No other MP3 player looks or feels as good as the iPod. The Mini looks looks like another homerun, their first small form factor PC and its uniquely Apple and great looking.
Apple's focus has shifted to perfecting the Human-Computer interface. This is what it was all about originally. They are focusing on the look and feel of products, both hardware and software.
Get the details right, and they will come.
*-*
The Mac Mini will be a perfect X-Terminal to use with a Linux box in another room. You'll have a silent and small box on your desk and the fat and loud server is down in the basement. Great.
*-*
Another thing to note. A DIN slot (car radio standard size) is 2"x7", the mini mac is 2"x6.5".
If it had a radio faceplate and a laptop drive, this would be the best car stereo ever.
*-*
Say hello to *real* "Media Center" Machine
(1) add a RAM stick BTO - cheapo
(2) add bluetooth BTO - cheapo
(3) add Wifi card BTO - cheapo
(4) sit unobtrusively to my way-cool existing TV and hook up A/V - nothin'
(5) hook to already existing wifi ADSL-powered network - nothin'
(6) bring in my already existing Sony-Ericsson Z600 - nothin'
(7)
(8) Profit!
Lemme see what I get from this:
(A) iTunes playback
(B) VLC playback
(C) DVD playback
(D) UNIX development
(E) Surf web
(F) Check mail
(7) Photo slideshow
(8) Remote control via Z600 (see 2,6,A,B,C,E)
All in the living room sitting comfortably on the sofa (see D)! Yay!
*-*
INSTRUCTIONS:
1. Select proper post
2. Copy and paste into the reply box
3. Submit (no need for preview!)
4. Profit
That the machine has sold very well, and that the shipping date for new orders are no longer Jan 22nd, but 3-4 weeks.
Luckily, my order got through early, so mine is expected to ship Jan 28th or earlier. This is pretty good since official release in Denmark is 29th.
play doom3
Funny how that works..
I buy a $500 thing, add $1000 more in options, and it increases the cost 300% !!!!!
Outrageous. Damn Apple.
When asked for a comment Mr Vader said "I find your lack of faith disturbing".
Mod parent up!
I have always been a sucker for the coolness factor in Apple products [but I didn't buy a Lisa!] and this has me drooling.
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
I have done low-level C work and high-level Objective-C work on both machines, and found them to be perfectly acceptable in terms of performance. I haven't touched the abomination of a language known as C++ for some time, and hope never to have to again, so I can't really give you any advice there (other than to look at Objective-C). XCode is a really nice IDE to use, and code written using POSIX libraries and Cocoa can be ported to other *NIX platforms and GNUstep very easily.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
These people are insane. They are including VAT in their 'calculated' prices... Get with it.
1) From the first paragraph on that page:
2) From the second paragraph:
For the average
Of course, that's assuming that Amiga gets over their "Our OS can only be ran on our hardware" mentality.
I've been a vocal critic of Amiga for going this route, ever since it was announced, but here's yet another example of why their plan is dumb: You can now buy a complete PPC machine (sans mouse, keyboard, and monitor) for less than you can buy an Amiga OS 4 board!
Yes... They'd have to get their OS to boot on the machines, but as a growing number of Linux distributions prove, it's not too hard to do.
I think, after seeing this machines price, and the price of the (yet unreleased, other than in alpha/beta form) Amiga board/CPU combo, that there must only be one or two nails left before the Amigas coffin is finally sealed shut.
I am a VAR in the PC world and see this kind Dell pricing every day. The Mac mini is the first Apple product that I personally have ever wanted as it is in the same pricing arena at the PC products. This is about getting away from the 'Windows" world and it's viruses, and its spyware, and it's glitches. This Mac may do that. The PC pricing is well and good but don't forget to add a modem, antivirus etc. Otherwise you are toast. I make a good living fixing Microsoft issues that don't have to be there. The intended customers for that PC are home users. The kind of users that don't understand viruses and spyware. The new Mac may be the perfect computer for the home users that aren't geeks. If Apple is trying to increase market share this is a great way to do it. I put my money were my mouth is. My MiniMac (pinkie in the air) ships the 22th. Time to learn if this is the Mac to recommend to the question, "What home computer should I buy?"
And isn't the target market for this computer people who already own a Windows machine and would like to switch over? If you already own monitor, keyboard, etc., maybe $500 isn't all that much to make a switch you've been contemplating but didn't want to spend $1500 to do.
This $500 Apple is still insanely overpriced.
GotApex? has a "headless Dell" on their site for $449.
This is not really a reasonable comparison. This Mac Mini is a super small form-factor PC. Try this:
Mini-itx system with Morex case
After I added the optical drive, upgraded to the 1200 processor/motherboard, upgraded hard disk to match apple, etc, I came in around $730. And that's for a PC with shared video (unichrome) that is still over twice the size of the Mac Mini, running WinXP, and looking about as attractive as a big warm turd. The Cappuccinopc web site has some PCs that may be a closer comparison, but they are also more expensive and include Intel Extreme video.
If someone out there made a 6.5 by 6.5 by 2 PC with a real video card and slot-loading dvd drive for 499, I would be all over it.
Schrodinger's cat is either dead or really pissed off...
How is the Mini "insanely overpriced" compared to the computer you mentioned?
CPU - OK, the "headless Dell" is faster.
RAM - Both same amount of RAM
HD - Both 40 gigs
Warranty - the Dell is a year better..and is on-site.
BOTH COST $499
So, where is the "insanely overpriced" come in? If it were $699 then perhaps you would have a valid argument. But of course, you do not.
Not to mention the fact you get a TON of software with the Mini and OSX. How much software comes with the Dell? Yeah, thought so...
And here I'm not even using a Mac nor own a Mac and even I can see you're so full of shit it's not even funny. If you have a beef against Apple, then please, think a little harder next time to come up with something of substance.
"Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
This isn't intended to be flamebait or a troll (sorry if you thought so): I can't imagine this device finding a market niche as a personal computer. Here's why:
I was thinking about buying myself a second hand G4 Cube from ebay, but thought better of it when I heard about this (because it's an up-to-date design that is comparable in size to the Cube).
Then I realised that it's not a hugely powerful machine and is intended perhaps as a second-machine for the iPod users who are inerested in OS X. But it's not really got enough meat to it to compare with its PC contemporaries (and I wouldn't make the mistake of comparing its 1.42 and 1.25GHz G4 chips with a Pentium 4 at 2.8, 3.2, 3.4 etc. GHz), and its G4 chip already looks outdated next to its G5 PowerMac brothers. I understand that the PowerBooks and iBooks contain G4 chips at present, and it appears to me that this Mac mini might be a laptop-derived design. I think it may end up lumped in the 'great for e-mail and web' trough. I expect people will find ways to turn these pretty boxes into PVRs (hacking a video-in) or expensive STBs, silent home servers and the like, but will not use them for second computers.
I don't want to spark a Mac-antiMac flame war, but do think that these questions remain outstanding. Please honour my non-troll intentions by replying...
1. It's apparently the quietest mac ever made. That's pretty damned quiet. TBH It's so small I doubt you'd fit a fan into it! Of course nobody actually has one yet...
2. The RAM looks like standard SDRAM (most sites say one slot only). The lid looks like a bugger to get off but give it a few days after release and there will be detailed instructions all over the web. No info on the bluetooth & airport - if they've used the same cards as on other macs then it should be easy.. if not, then you'll need to wait for availability.
3. Compare with a similar speed powerbook.
4. With a mini? No, because they're not available yet....
The reason that you're going to get a dozen replys from the Apple "amen corner" is that you very clearly don't get it. If you could buy a Yugo for $5000 or a Honda for $5500, which one would you want? Sure, you could say that Dell is better than Yugo, but you'd still be missing the point.
Apple's hardware is better than the bottom basement x86 crap. Dell is using the lowest bidder, and changing monthly. Apple is consistently using the same hardware. This is important for two reasons. First, Apple can make sure the drivers work well. In the x86 world, drivers are a mess, written by the company that made the hardware. You have no guarantee of quality, and that is partially what makes Windows unstable. Second, if the hardware sucks, Apple will drop them.
More importantly, Apple's software is better. OS X is very pleasant to use. It's powerful for advanced users, and simple for novices. The bundled apps are easier to use. Plug and play works very well. Your mom's camera will just work without special drivers and special helper apps for downloading the images (yes, some digicams just work under Windows, but my Canon required a whole suite of applications to get the damn pictures from it).
What you seem to not understand is that these things have a value. In fact, they are worth at least the $50 price difference to many people. The fact that people find value in this shouldn't bother you. You shouldn't feel some compelling need to point out that an apple and an orange have different prices. Many people want a Mac. You seem to think that people want a computer.
Let's not go overboard.
You offer a comparison system that's only 10% cheaper, and depending on the details might not even be as well-equipped as the mini. (svideo out? equivalent out-of-the box software bundle that includes being impervious [for now, at least] to viruses and spy-/ad-ware?)
Feel free to question or mock the zealotry that many of us Mac users exhibit now and then, but give Apple their due on this one: they have, for once, offered a system that is NOT insanely overpriced compared to the competition.
I won't tell you which system is the better value for you, but let's for the pure fun of things look at that Mac Mini's software, and then figure out from there what you're paying for the naked hardware, okay?
Let's see -- the Mac Mini comes with (with prices listed at Apple's Online Store in brackets (using all USD prices):
For a grand total of $401.85 if you were to just buy the software alone, leaving the hardware portion costing you only $97.15 . When you factor in the fact you don't need to outfit the system with firewall or anti-virus software, it looks like one damn fine deal to me.
Yaz.
1. It does not run MacOS-X.
2. It's not tiny.
3. It's not fanless.
4. It does not run MacOS-X.
Crap. Order Mac mini w/ 512 megs of RAM and you have _fully_blown_ modern computer that everyone can use and that you can carry in your pocket (I'm sure it would fit in my coat's).
USB microphones are available.
I haven't really noticed much speed difference between my current machine (1.5GHz G4) and my last one (1.25GHz G4), so I wouldn't bother with this. Even big compiles and video editing only gain a small amount.
up it to a gig of RAM
Never buy RAM from Apple. They charge 2-3 times the value of the RAM for installation.
a superdrive
If you really need to burn DVDs. I've got some use from my SuperDrive, but I wouldn't consider it essential. Waiting a year and adding a FireWire Blu-Ray / HD-DVD drive might be a better bet.
bluetooth
You can get a USB bluetooth module on eBay for a quarter of what Apple charge for internal Bluetooth. And yes, OS X will almost certainly support it.
wireless keyboard and mouse
So get a wired one.
and give it a 3 year warranty
It comes with a 1 year warranty. Adding another two years for a third of the price of the machine doesn't sound like a great deal. I'd be more inclined to throw it out and replace it with a newer and faster one if it breaks after the first year.
you don't have nifty Mac stuff like video-in
My PowerBook has exactly the same video-in capabilities as the Mac Mini - a FireWire port. Neither machine has any analogue video input capability, and neither does any recent Mac I've seen without 3rd party hardware (and if you really need it, there are analogue -> FireWire boxes available).
and you have a CPU that compares to what was out a few years ago.
And is still used in the current PowerBook line, and is probably fast enough for most people.
Is this really a good deal?
If you insist on adding every possible customisation to it, then no. If the basic model (perhaps with the RAM upgraded to 512MB) is good enough for your needs, then yes.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
When I first saw it, it said "Estimated arrival by January 22", now it says "3-4 weeks". I assume there was a rush early on.
It'll be interesting seeing whether it can be easily set up for TV out.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Defrag?
"He who throws mud, loses ground." - proverb
Err, you DO know that other companies besides Apple make displays, right?
Those displays will work with the mini. So will pretty much any USB keyboard and mouse. And this machine is targeted rather specifically at people who already have a keyboard, mouse, and display.
Some people will piss and moan about anything, I swear.
Still, the mini looks cool, I hope to buy one (used in the far future from ebay for hopefully about $20). 300MHz G3 B&W Powermacs are still going for $150-$200 and they're ancient. Expect to wait around 10-15 years for your $20 Mac Mini. Macs seem to hold their value really well so I don't feel bad about spending extra on it. My PC on the other hand is obsolete and loses 90% of it's value the first 6 months.
Nah, no one develops software for OS X. Oh... wait a minute! Yes they do!
;-)
Check out VersionTracker. I think you'll find more than you need or want. Considering the list of updated packages updated on any given day scrolls through several pages, I don't think you'll have to crack out gcc everytime you want some new softawre.
The minimum $500 monitor to use it.
Because the flat-screen 17" at Sams for $110 is just too cheap?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Apple keyboards contain a small USB hub, providing two additional ports. One is usually used for the mouse, and I've plugged a USB dongle into the other one in the past. If you use an Apple keyboard (which I would strongly recommend - trying to work out how windows and alt map to command and option can be a pain since it seems to vary between manufacturers) leaves you with 2 USB slots free.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Build it yourself, choosing each component for yourself.
There are kit cars too. Most people would rather buy a Toyota.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
No, PC means an IBM compatible computer. Aramaic is a dead language. So is Latin. English is not. The meaning of the word has changed. Get over it.
You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
'PC' means "Personal Computer".
Ironically enough, a phrase coined by Apple.
Before that they were "microcomputers".
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
It's either buy the RAM from Apple and have them install it pre-ship, or buy it from CompUSA/Apple Store, have them install it in-house.
Because the MacMini is not user servicable, and if you're not ADT (Apple Desktop Technican Certified) *poof* your warranty will go up in smoke.
You can't buy a graphics card that will play Doom3 (well) for $499.
It is kind of difficult to tell from the pictures. An external power supply (like laptops have) would make a lot of sense. Also it would make the following wishful thinking slightly more realistic:
Imagine a mac mini. Add a battery pack. Add wireless option. Throw it in your backpack. Add wireless screen (sort of like a tablet PC but just enough computing power to be a remote desktop client...for the mac mini you have in your back ack). In your home office, add a dock, and a real screen, keyboard and mouse. And so on.
In my dreams, at least.
Neo: Whoa, deja vu.
Trinity: What did you just say?
Neo: Nothing, I just had a little deja vu.
Trinity: What did you see?
Cypher: What happened?
Neo: A black cat went past us, and then another that looked just like it.
Trinity: How much like it, was it the same cat?
Neo: Might have been, I'm not sure.
Morpheus: Switch, Apoc.
Neo: What is it?
Trinity: A deja vu is usually a glitch in the Matrix. It happens when they change something.
Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
XP-Pro -- No just get Linux instead
DVD-ROM-- Cheap
Quicken 2k5 -- GNU Cash
Office -- OOo
Video editing suite -- If you need to do heavy video editing you shouldn't be buying a $500 computer anyway.
Le français vous intéresse?
Then we wouldn't be overpaying for Apple products, now would we? What kind of Apple zealot are you anyways?!?
And then a good number of applications just don't work. I forget the link, but Microsoft themselves found that about 50% of all Windows software would not work out of the box unless you're an admin. I used to setup computer machines, and the amount of permissions I had to change was insane. You'd be amazed at how many programs want to write to c:\program files\... .
-matt
Fine then, I'll see your point and raise you the fact that we just changed it back. Get over it.
Latin is not dead! It's in retirement, enjoying lucrative consulting positions in the scientific and medical communities.
Other than that, it occasionally goes to church and has an interest in oral sex.
> I can't plug in my microphone or stereo in the Mac since Apple decided to skip the line in... Get an iMic for the microphone. $30. There's a headphone hack, plug/adapt that into your stereo.
Although your dream loses its point when you stop and consider that you could just get an iBook for that kind of money...
.... for a desktop, as they seem to be attempting to pass it off as. Sure, you could use it as one, but it would seem more appropriate to use it as a portable, in which case, why not just get a laptop?
Where's the mic port? Is it just my ignorance of Apple hardware showing, or is there not one?
But God demonstrates his love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us - (Romans 5:8)
-=-=-=-=-=
I'd rather be flamed than ignored.
Tiger's Core Image system is what provides that eye candy. Sadly, Core Image requires a much better GPU than the 9200.
That isn't to say that Tiger won't run on a Mac mini or an iBook - it most certainly will. You just won't get all the nifty eye candy. And really, other than the temporary "wow" factor, you can do everything you need to do without a bunch of superfluous effects.
Tiger will run an an iBook or a Mac mini, just without all the extra gewgaws. And believe me, with Dashboard, enhanced search, and the way Apple OS upgrades generally get faster with each release, even without CI it would probably be a worthwhile upgrade.
My Psion Organiser II had "Cray Supercomputer" written on it in red crayon...
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
Half Life 2. True. This pisses me off. Alot of great games are ported to Mac, like the Unreal series and many many more.
:-) .doc files right out of the box (aka no Word needed)
Verdict: true
Right-click.
100% INCORRECT. OSX supports right-click right out of the box. Its just that Apple mice dont have two-buttons. Actually, you can hit the option key and click with an apple mouse to get the right-click functionality. But note that the mini mac DOES NOT SHIP with an apple mouse. So go out and get a MS optical wheel mouse or use your current usb/ps2 mouse and you will have right-click. Verdict: false
Start-R For Run.
Your joking, right?
You shouldnt even need to do that. In OSX I can start any OSX App using only the keyboard in 3-5 keystrokes. Do this COMMAND+Shift+A (open apps folder) then type the first letter of the App, OSX highlights it, now COMMAND+Down (or +O) to run it. You may need the second letter of the name too is many apps are similiarly named. Naturally, you can also use the Terminal to open unix apps as fast or faster than Start-R.
Verdict: True, but Mac's can accomplish the same goal quicker
Upgrade. The above were attacks on Mac's. This is about the Mini Mac and iMac's. The MiniMac's have memory upgrade ability only. This machine is geared at people as a "My first Mac." If you like, it Apple hopes you will by an iMac (that would be your upgrade).
Things you cant do on a Wintel PC:
- See all you app windows with a single-keypress (expose)
- Flurry screensaver
- Open
- Run X app's natively.
- Terminal. enough said.
- Turn on fully configured FTP, HTTP, SSH and file sharing servers by simply checking a check-box.
- Setup virtually any bluetooth device in 4 or fewer click's
- Once click internet connection sharing between wireless and wired lan that doesnt involve complex bridging and an hour of clicking.
- Tons of well-made and stable productivity applications bundles
and finally, - type ls
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who do not.
Also you can play "Hunt The Virus" and "Spyware Fishing" and "Patch the latest security vulnerability in IE".
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
Macs seem to hold their value really well so I don't feel bad about spending extra on it.
I've always found this to be a really weird argument. Who buys a computer because it "keeps its value" (read: replacing it is just as expensive as when I bought it)? The great thing about the commodity PC market is that prices keep going down. Sure, your old PC isn't worth anything, but you can get a spiffy new one for less money as well. As a consumer, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.
I kinda like a world where a 3GHz P4 with a gig of RAM is less than a thousand bucks myself, but Mac folks seem to like that a top-end machine starts at about $1,500 because they have this illusion that it's an investment.
That's meant to be humorous, right?
Right-click.
Why not? Since the Mac OS 7.5 days you could replace the mouse that came with your machine and right-click. Now the Mac mini lets you chose your own first mouse, so just get one with two or more buttons.
Start-R For Run.
Are you suggesting you'd rather use Windows' limited little command line than a full Unix terminal? That you don't want the flexibility to choose your own shell (sh, csh, ksh, bash, etc.)? Or are you talking about the fact that you have to use Start-R because Windows puts all of your programs in the Start menu, so you can't find the one you want. Then my question becomes, would you rather have to know and type the name of the executable, rather than have the Dock, which only contains the applications you use often, and use a Command-A in the Finder and jump to the Applications folder for the rest of them?
Upgrade.
Upgrade what? What do you want to add that doesn't plug in to either the Firewire or USB2.0 ports? If there really is something, Apple has a whole line of machines with multiple PCI or faster slots.
"We have nothing in common, your attitude annoys me, and your political views are appalling."
If you get a Mac Mini, you're realistically going to have to get a Mac keyboard, as they have buttons that PC keyboards don't have. (The Command key for starters, although this probably translates to something else on the PC board. Plus, the power switch on the Mini is on the back. Much nicer to have one of the apple keyboards with the power key.) As for the mouse: I can't remember the last time I saw a (reasonably new) PC without a USB mouse.
It appears that you are wrong - this is from Henry Norr reporting at macintouch.com:
------>
I went back to the booth later and got a little more info on upgrading the Mac Mini.
Apple "does not recommend" that users upgrade the memory themselves - you're supposed to have a service provider do it if you want to add more after purchase - but doing it yourself does not void the warranty unless you damage something. A booth person told me the memory slot is easily accessible once you get the case open.
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I doubt intel OEMs honor warranties if you end up "toasting" the machine
...because it doesn't have an internal power supply. It uses a power brick. The power brick is the size of a washing machine and requires three-phase power.
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I believe I heard once that Apple uses Micron memory. Crucial.com is a Micron reseller I believe. 512 MB PC2700 Non-ECC is $80.99, $5.99 more than the $75 Apple wants for the upgrade to 512 MB (although I wonder why they just don't subtract the cost of the 256MB that it came with originally?)
And 1 GB stick is $299.99, which admittedly is a lot less than the $400 something Apple wants. But realistically, why would you need 1 GB in a low-end machine? Sure, you [i]could[/i] do Photoshop or Final Cut Pro or (insert professional app here), but the other (more expensive) Macs are better suited to those tasks.
Not so obvious...
I'm sitting here on a laptop - non-upgradable (I hear they're selling quite well nowadays...). All my PC boxes are being migrated to shuttles (which aren't very upgradable, TBH, but I don't care).
*most* people don't keep the same box going for 5 years. They upgrade. Slashdotters are more likely to do it bit by bit, but I bet the average slashdotter has spent a lot more than $1000 on hardware in the last 12 months.
The things that I upgrade most (memory, hard drive) are still upgradable on the mini, albeit with a little work... but you get that with laptops too.
99.99% of the 'real world' never upgrade. Heck, they never even run Windows Update let alone upgrade their hardware. This is the market these boxes will fly off the shelves in.
If you are buying a new USB keyboard, you should look into 3rd party Mac keyboards. While the Apple keyboard is quite nice, there are others; I have a Matias Tactile Pro on my desktop G5 at work which I like. It has a good feel, and should survive millions of presses.
Here's a recent discussion about 3rd party keyboards: http://www.lowendmac.com/misc/05/0110.html
And it is true, keyboards are non-powered hubs and you can only rely on them for low-powered devices. For instance, half of USB thumb drives will work from a keyboard (more or less). I doubt if the iPod Shuffle will work very well out of a keyboard; probably won't charge, and won't get USB 2.0 speed transfers.
Since this machine is a luggable and uses Laptop components. I thought I would compare a low end laptop.
I configured a low end dell laptop with 40G drive/ CD-RW/DVD combo drive/256 MB ram/Celeron 2.6./90 day warranty (7.5 lbs) Price $852
I configure the mac Mini with standard 1.25 G4/ 40G drive/ cd-RW/DVD combo/ 256ram/ 90 day warranty. 2.9lbs mac mouse and keyboard combo. Price $552
CMV 15" LCD Monitor 5.3 lbs $179 newegg.
Total Price: $731
So one is luggable on the other true portable. But you have similar power and price/size/mass. Upgrade capability and pricing also similar.
Those comparing the price performance to a off the shelf standard PC are out to lunch. This is not a power users box. It is not the best price peforming box on the planet.
What it is is a very small cool, REASONABLY priced mac.
I never used a mac before but I could see KVM'ing one of these into my current setup. I could meet 90% of my computing needs in blisfully quiet operation, keeping the PC for powerhouse/legacy tasks the other 10% of the time.
I think they are going to sell all they can build. I would have ordered one already if it came with digital audio outputs.
While not everything to everyone, this machine has an interesting niche to occupy and represents one of the few chances to get an Apple without paying a significant premium IMO. I wish them well. Hopefully they will be successful and release a mini2 that is more suitable for media center usage.
I submit a story of newsworthiness and get rejected. you guys pick up a story from two DAYS ago after the entire world has already heard about it and post it? You guys suck.
1)Usually it is only new computers that will have a usb keyboard and mouse. If I already have a new computer why buy another?
USB-PS2 adapter, Fry's, something like $2. Seriously. Basic USB keyboards/mice aren't much more if you feel like an upgrade.
2)If I had an old computer I would have to by all new input and output devices to hook up to this thing because older computers are less likely to have usb mouse keyboards and VGA/DVI monitors.
It comes with a VGA-DVI adapter in the box. Moot point - oh, and RTFA.
3)I went to the apple site to "buy" one and I don't even see monitor as an option to add to this computer. Sure I can buy a 20inch LCD from apple but then its not "just" $499 anymore is it?
If you add extra parts it gets more expensive? Er, yeah, you're right there - although I don't really see what your surprised about. If you want a monitor, add one to your cart. If you don't, don't. If you want the whole package, spend more and get an eMac or an iMac. Or don't. Is this really rocket science?
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
OOo = Open Office.org
/. for very long.
Do you mean to suggest that Open Office (which I'm guess is what you're saying should be downloaded from openoffice.org) is comparable to Office? Golly. Remember that "you're comparing a first-class ticket to" analogy? We're back in that territory again.
AppleWorks is fairly shoddy software by 21st-century standards, but at least it supports new, cutting-edge technologies like "cut" and "paste."
You're either a jackass, you've missed the whole OSS movement, or you haven't been on
If OSS means Office of Strategic Services, then just one out of three. If it means anything else, then I guess it's two out of three.
GTFOH.
Your guess is as good as mine here.
It seems as though you misunderstood the meaning of HEAVY VIDEO EDITING.
It seems as though you misunderstood the definition of iMovie. It is, in fact, capable of moderately sophisticated, multi-track, non-linear video editing in either standard or high definition. And it's bundled with the Mac mini.
your DV cam (which probably COMES with the software to do so now)
Software that (1) has to be installed, (2) has to be learned and (3) doesn't work with anything else on your computer. Sounds like a poor substitute for iMovie.
burning them to a dvd (DVD burner probably comes with software to create videos as well)
Software that (1) has to be installed, (2) has to be learned and (3) doesn't work with anything else on your computer. Sounds like a poor substitute for iDVD.
Otherwise you can use movie maker or some other little bullshit program that just gets the job done.
Software that (1) has to be installed, (2) has to be learned, (3) doesn't work with anything else on your computer and (4) is a "bullshit program." Sounds like a poor substitute for iMovie and iDVD.
No, every parent in america DOES NOT have a mini dv camcorder.
Literally? No. It's a figure of speech. Mini-DV cameras are ubiquitous.
every parent in america does not want to use Photoshop (an image editing suite) to edit pictures
Which is why Apple bundles iPhoto. We keep coming back to the main point here, don't we? Which is that the software bundled with the Mac mini makes your life easier instead of harder, and that no comparable software is available for the PC at any price.
By the way, there is maybe 1 family out of 10 who actually does record all of little timmy's events with a dv cam and tries to back them up on DVDs.
Let's say it were one family out of ten. That would still be 10 million families in the United States alone. Nice market.
Of course, it's not one out of ten. It's much, much higher.
Everyone else is content with video tapes or just hooking the fucking camera up to the A/V inputs on the TV and going with it.
Oh, I see. Because that's the way we did it in 1989, that's how we should do it today. Got it. Great plan you've got there.
In case you're wondering, this is why Apple's profits for the quarter ending 12/25 quadrupled over the previous year's. This is why they're growing like a house on fire: because they don't say, "You should be satisfied with doing it the old, clumsy, hard way."
Your philosophy is, "It should be hard," so you're okay with things that are hard. Apple's philosophy is, "It should easy." So they make it easy.
Maybe you're a troll, or maybe you just aren't quite catching the sarcasm here, but let me say it flat out. Supporting your brother, father, and grandfather is not the same as working a helpdesk professionally. I understand you think it is. I did too, when I was 17 and had never worked professionally as a tech.
The first mistake you're making is that you cannot rely on your users to have the common sense or the will-power of a lemur. You don't want your users to do something, you pretty much have to make it impossible, and even then, some exec who could fire you on a whim may very likely disapprove of the fact that his favorite joke sites are blocked.
Does user education help? Sure. Will it actually stop spyware infestation? No. Does any of this excuse MS from making the monumentally bone-headed decision of giving their web-browser the ability to install random apps without asking? No.
Let's compare the two.
First, let's update the Mac Mini; upgrading to 512 MB RAM and a 80 GB hard drive at the Apple store bumps the cost up to $625.
Now let's update the Dell. Include Windows XP Pro (because the Mac does not ship with a crippled version of OS X), a CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive (the Dell only has a CD-ROM), the cheap 56k modem, and we're up to $707.
I can't seem to find any information about the Dell's video card, and there's no option to upgrade it, so it's probably a cheap integrated chipset. It's also pretty unlikely to have a DVI output or Firewire, but I can't find that information anywhere, either. On the other hand, the Dell's processor is probably slightly faster even when you take into account the MHz myth, so we'll call them even.
So, the Dell is $82 more expensive with roughly the same specs. Supposedly there's a $100 mail-in rebate, but I have heard horror stories about how hard it is to get companies to honor those, so take it with a grain of salt. The Dell also doesn't have equivalents to the iLife suite or Quicken 2005, and it's probably about ten times as large. I fail to see how that's a better deal.
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
I was working on one of our lab machines... had an exposed serial connector hanging out. I was wearing a sweater (I know, I know... I should have been wearing a ground strap too.)
Zapped the serial connector with a static shock, swore like a motherfucker... and only then noticed that the machine had rebooted when it got zapped. Not a normal reboot. A "fuck you for zapping me, I'm going to cycle power and drop your unsaved work you punk motherfucker" reboot.
Took me a few minutes to stop laughing.
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Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)
It "keeping its value" means you can re-sell it, making your replacement less expensive. With a PC, you have to pay someone to recycle it.
Nearly every complaint about the Mac Mini can be explained away by the general modularity of Macs which tend to be far more external than PCs. On my desk I have a Dell Winbox and a G5. I've had the G5 for a year now. Not one OS crash or failure or reboot. And now the only reason I run the PC is for soulseek. I will never go back to Windows, ever.
/. have complained about this. Also, the standard Mac keyboard has two USB plugs.
.DLL nightmares, pick up viruses in everything from cursor settings to email, et. al... For a base $500 you can have a computer that does that and so much more.
1) 2 USB ports. What do you do after mouse / keyboard and you want to plug in a printer?
A USB HUB. I can't believe people on
2) No Audio In - external firewire devices, which have been mentioned in many other posts with links, are readily available. If you're serious about gargeband you won't want a crappy minijack audio in anyway. You'll want a breakout box with a 1/4 or optical line in.
3) No Optical Audio out - again the reverse of the above.
4) Harddrive space, not enough for today's digital media. Same as an Ipod.
Again, external firewire drives, which are very important to the Mac in general. I use my G5 primarily for heavy duty HD editing. Guess what I use for storage? No SCSI or Raid array - an off the shelf LaCie Terabyte external Firewire 800 drive. I took it out of the box, plugged it in, copied files over from the SATA drive that came with the system, and within 15 minutes my setup was complete with now a terabyte to work with. Hell, you could plug one of them into a Mac Mini if you had that much porn to archive and were going to hack the thing to be a video server.
5) What hardware you're getting for that price.
You're also getting OSX and iLife '05. I skipped iLife 04, but I am rushing out the day '05 hits, because it is just incredible what you're getting for 79$. That cost is part of the Mini Mac.
Ultimately it's not even about the hardware. Granted I'm spoiled with a dual G5 processor, but when push comes to shove what made me fall in love with my Mac wasn't the sheer power of my system - it was the OS environment, the software, the interface, the stability, the lack of virus and spyware and adware and malware.
That to me is easily worth $500, which is why this is a product that should be for two ends of the market. Clueless newbies who expect - rightly so - that things should work, and hardcore techies who can now afford to keep a second box. What I think you'll find is that under Jobs' second tenure the Mac has become a device for your life, and it's all to do with the exceptional software made for it.
Most of us here shell out at least 1000 for a good PC system even if we build from scratch cause that's often the price for the best thing out there. Wouldn't you gladly pay $500 extra if you knew that WinXP would never crash, never present
6) No DVD Burner. Not enough RAM.
You can add Ram without violating the warranty yourself. Apple is charging way too much for it. And you can add a Superdrive for about $100 if I recall right. Giving you the option to burn DVDs. This I believe is a cost everyone should upgrade to, especially once they see the ease of iMovie and iDVD.
7) No VGA / S VIdeo out
Well it comes with a DVI to VGA adapater - if you're hooking up to an HDTV then use DVI for the love of god. And you can get a SVIdeo out for 19$
Did you also remember this is fanless and whisper quiet and smaller than a lunchbox? That they've liberated you from having to pair up with their overpriced (but absolutely phenonmenal) displays?
Every bit of commentary I've seen about this computer has completely missed the point or just been rife with ignorance. Every single major gripe is addressable, and the price point is absoutely amazing, again, for the software. Most of the readers here do get it - they can afford to have one to play with, and I wouldn't be surpri
** http://www.nkhumanrights.or.kr/ ** Human rights in North Korea. 1 million estimated dead from starvation.
Lack of GigE was the first thing that brought me back to reality - it doesn't mean I still won't buy one (or more) but I put my Visa back in the wallet for now.
For heaven's sake, why? Just a couple of years ago, I was designing cutting edge storage over IP systems. I'm telling you, a gigabit is really, really, fast. There are *very* few computers with i/o architectures and protocol stacks that can even begin to approach gigabit speeds.
Don't fall for the marktdroid hype - GigE on a MiniMac will never be missed - even the big Macs and Powerbooks that come with GigE have no prayer of actually being able to use it. It's a bit like a nice Pontiac V-6 (the rest of the computer) powering a Ferrari look-alike (the GigE NIC)- it's just not going to be able to live up to the promise - don't be fooled, it's still a Fiero GT under the skin.
In real life, unless you're building a storage backbone in a data center, or are doing *serious* workstation-type work on huge datasets (like terabyte CFD simulations or siesmic processing), you will NOT be able to use much more than 100 Mbps anyway, since the bottlenecks will be in your i/o paths and disk controllers. You need *very* serious RAID controllers to keep a gigabit wire full. I know: The system we built was 3x faster than IBM's high-end Shark storage server, and it took a year of hard work optimizing, tuning, and even waiting for Syskonnect to build a GigE card that could really deliver gigabit performance before we could fill that pipe. There are many more bottlenecks there than you would expect.
Granted, hardware has gotten faster in the last two years, but unless you're doing the sort of stuff mentioned above (and are using high-$$$ network controllers, RAID adapters, etc.), you'll never miss it if you don't have gigabit.
"The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last
Hey now! Don't act as if Dells don't come with lots of software. They do come with lot's of software!
- AOL
- MSN Internet
- Branded version of Internet Explorer
- Branded version of MusicMatch Jukebox
- Non-updateable version of McAfee VirusScan (yay says home user! now I'm protected! don't have to do anything else!)
- Crippled version of PaintShop
- Lots of nice icons with Special Offers!
- A program that tells me about important computer stuff (Dell Support Alerts)
- Lots more I forgot to list
Humph! Well you thought wrong! Dell comes with lots of software! And think of it! All this stuff comes with a handy order form for the full version! How conveinient! How dare you say that Mac has a bunch of software and a Dell doesn't???!??!On a serious note: It take me at least an hour to uninstall all the crap that comes with each new Dell system I have to configure.
Read my blog: HansMast.com
Isn't it amazing? People have been complaining forever that Apple only has a 1-button mouse, why can't they sell a Mac with the option of not buying their mouse so you can use your own 2- or 3-button mouse. Apple does so, and now those same people complain that Apple isn't selling them a mouse!
One big point of this machine is that many, many people have a perfectly good USB keyboard and/or mouse sitting around, along with a display. Apple is finally giving people the choice of not buying any of those. When you buy one of those RealCheap Dell machines, do you get the option of not getting a keyboard and mouse? I didn't think so. You get a $45 credit for not getting a display (from Dell, anyway)...but you do get WordPerfect included!
So the memory upgrade option is slightly more expensive - to go cheaper, you have to find a way to sell the one that comes with it, and even then you're only saving a little bit.
Also, note that Apple has free shipping on it (at least, right now)!
After looking around at Dell and Gateway, this thing is a good deal. Not stunningly great, but good enough that people who can afford an iMac G5 or a PowerMac G5 are still going to have good reasons to get one of those instead. But good enough that they might even get one in addition. Can you build-your-own for less? Of course you can. Can most people build-their-own for any amount? Do most people want to buy a no-name box built by Joe Random at the local computer shop? No, and no.
If you really want to go cheap, Sam's Club has a $157 box with no hard drive, no monitor and it comes with a Linux install CD. Still has a keyboard and mouse, though.