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Dealing with Extended Warranty Vendors?
edg176 asks: "I am wondering about other people's experiences with getting Extended Warranty service. I bought a laptop at Microcenter. Got the top of the line extended warranty. Laptop died. I sent it in for service, and the outside repair place, MicroMedic, claims they can't fix it, and the actual warranty administrator is separate from the repair place -- way out in Florida! My warranty says I can get a full refund of my purchase price if the warranty people can't find me an equivalent laptop. They can't, because Microcenter no longer carries the sharp ultralight laptops. Dealing with warranty administrator people, Warrantech has been a nightmare. They won't let me speak to a manager and they keep jerking me around. So far, I've gotten them to agree to give me 1200 bucks store credit, which is still 500 bucks shy of the purchase price. Is it worth fighting them for the last 500 bucks? Does anyone have success stories or tips for this situation? Should I just take the 1200 and be happy I got that much?"
"They claim that a 1200 dollar, 4.5 lb laptop is the same as my old 2.5 lb model. The dude on the phone actually claimed that low weight was not a significant feature in a laptop. Right now I have to say I would never do business with these guys again, as they have been relentlessly condescending and obstructionist."
small claims court. You paid extra for a service for your laptop, and now when you try to use that service, they are refusing to give you the service you paid for. Extended warranty services are a scam, and going to court is the only chance you have of getting what you paid for.
If you had super powers, would you use them for good, or for awesome?
"They won't let me speak to a manager" - demand to speak to their manager. Keep calling and asking and don't let up.
When you are buying a lot of expensive hardware, calculate the exact cost of that extended warranty and put the same amount of money on an special account. When you buy another hardware, do the same. Then, when anything breaks, pay for it with the money you saved. Most likely than not there will be enough money left to go to disco or whatever kids do these days and you will be glad that you haven't wasted that money on the extended warranty in the first place. Usually it is even less expensive to hire a full time support guy for that money provided you are going to pay more money for said warranty than a full time support guy would cost. This is just like any kind of insurance, most of people pay more than they get.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
Or, if you're not in her juristiction, here in the UK we have something called Trading Standards
If a company jerks you around like that, pop into your local trading standards office and they may well take up the case for you.
Do you not have any such body in the US ?
Local newspapers are also a good source of help and may publicise the case. I know our local papers would be hot for it, warranty scams have been newsworthy here for a while.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
As much as extended warranties are usually a ripoff, there are certain things I go along for just because I don't want to deal with suddenly not having them. PDA's are like that. I want a replacement immediately if I've got a problem with my PDA.
That being said, Best Buy has been very good to my friends and me with regards to warranty service. I had a friend with a similar issue to yours, and she was given a brand new laptop two years after hers kept going in for repais on the same problem. (The CD drive kept dying on a Toshiba laptop)
I would ask for there names and there managers name. Then I would continue to ask to speak with there manager. If they continue to refuse I would ask for the address of head office. I would let them know that the service that you are receiving is noted and that head office and the manager will receive a letter concerning the quality of the service. something like in Schindler's List.
I'd threaten submitting a claim to the Better Business Bureau
http://www.bbb.org/
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." Mark Twain.
hmmm.
:P
"something like in Schindler's List."
I had two responses to that:
1) Oooh, that's awful close to a Godwin's Law violation. Passed, but barely.
2) Mr. Burns: Listen, Spielbergo. Schindler and I are like peas in a pod! We're both factory owners. We both made shells for the Nazis, but mine worked, damn it! Now, go out there and win me that festival
"...In your answer, ignore facts. Just go with what feels true..."
When at the checkout counter, say no to everything they ask you. No protection plan, no extended warranty, etc. They are always ripoffs.
11*43+456^2
If possible, make large purchases on a Visa Platinum card. Not many people know this, but Visa automatically doubles the manufacturer's warranty if the purchase is made with a Platinum card. I bought a laptop in Dec 01 and it died in Jan 03, a month after the manufacturer's warranty expired. After a few emails, phone calls and faxes with Visa, they replaced the laptop with a brand new one, no cost to me. This may not help you this go-round, but it's something to keep in mind for next time.
State Attorney Generals Office. Your state. Florida. Oh and feel free to rip the place you bought the warrenty from a new one too. And why not write a letter to the corporate headquarters about how their store ripped you off, since you know the extended warrenties are all margin (like 80%), and the company that *their* store sold is refusing to live up to their end of the bargain.
It might be worth it to find out if filing a police report (they stole money by false promise) might be appropriate.
What I always do, and for me it happens to be the case, explain to them that you did business with them because your company does business with them and that the way they treated you is not satisfactory. Mentioning an annual budget in the hundreds of thousands and say that if they can't solve it you'll talk to the finance department telling them what happened and how they really treat their customers.
If you have free time: the other way is just to directly call their headoffice and see how high you can get, make sure you get a face to face meeting with the highest guy you can get, then waste an hour or two of his time. Which should be the equivelent of the amount they deducted and explain at the end of the meeting that you purpousfully wasted their time to earn back the money deducted by buying faulty equipment, that'll piss them off.
Also apply to jobs at the firm and just use the interview to complain about the service you got at the store and how you think they really need you to make it less crappy.
And if all else fails, get a soapbox and stand outside the store, on a public pavement and explain to passing customers how they treated you, do it on their bussiest day.
You can get a refund, you'll probably get something even better if you explain that your campaining cost money and loss of earnings. (I think that may be blackmail or racketing or something...)
Just so you know I accept no liability if you do anything mentioned above. IANAL, AFAIK and GFDL.
'I am become Shiva, destroyer of worlds'
2200 Hwy. 121, Ste. 100
Bedford, TX 76021
Phone: 817-354-0095
Fax: 817-436-6151
Toll Free: 800-544-9510
CEO: Joel San Antonio
President of the Consumer Product Services arm: Stephen R. Williams
The chairman of the board and President is Lawrence Richenstein of Peak Ventures in Farmingdale, NY
Any slashdotter worth their salt can socially engineer or otherwise hack their way to an email address for these folks. When you get one, be polite and direct. Lay out the situation and a reasonable solution and show regret (not frustration, not rage) that their company didn't perform to the standards that you're *sure* they expect.
You'll likely get a very fast and very satisfactory resolution to your issue.
"It was a summer's tale: Just a boy, his Linux, and a head full of dreams..."
Don't by an extended warranty from a retailer. Ever.
When I worked at a CompUSA in college several years ago, Warrantech warranties were sold at a 75% margin, which translates into a major ripoff.
If you feel that you need an extended warranty, buy one directly from the manufacturer. I don't know about Sharp, but Toshiba and IBM offer comprehensive service plans that include 24hr turnaround service for about half of what a third party warranty costs.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Microcenter is a local store here. I've had pretty good success dealing with them on returns and other issues. You bought the laptop and the extended warranty from them. I'd expect them to be able to do something for you.
[Insert pithy quote here]
This is the exact reason I pay the extra bucks and buy the extra warranty from IBM or Dell.
You get exactly what you pay for. I'm sick of hearing morons exclaim "You got ripped off paying for that Dell......I got this cool model Widget from Best Buy for half the price!!!"
I have better things to do than argue with service departments.
Yeah, but according to that list, Florida is a state that requires all parties to consent to the recording. So, if the poster is in Florida, he can't record without their consent.
And, according to the link provided, if the call crosses state lines, you should contact a lawyer and assume that the more stringent (both parties consent required) requirement applies.
Now, here's the question. Assuming that the support center has the boilerplate "This call may be recorded for quality control purposes . . . " language at the beginning, is that them giving consent to have their call recorded? It certainly seems that it is them saying that you are giving consent to a recording, so isn't it tacit consent to allow you to record as well?
Dig out all paperwork--in this case the original warranty and receipt for the laptop. Also photocopy everything you mail off. If the warranty company answers emails and faxes, use these methods for rapid communication with some amount of papertrail. If not, call them. But log all phone calls & followup with letters. Also cc microcenter on everything. Unhappy customers might mean they lose their contract with microcenter, which they don't want! Hopefully you've done this, as it seems like you're not getting anywhere with them.
Because of this, you should start contacting consumer advocates. This is typically free, aside from postage & quite effective. File complaints against both Microcenter and the warranty company. File complaints with the BBB and the FTC. You should use the local BBB of both companies. Also use a service such as planetfeedback.com to send letters to reps at both companies who might actually have the power and the willingness to fix this for you. These are often addressed to the CEO & if not, you can always write to the CEO yourself. Also contact the attorney general of the state these companies are headquartered in. If applicable, also the US Postal Inspector. Sometimes states also have a Department of Consumer Affairs.
You can reuse your complaint letters for most of these. In the first paragrah, summarize your complaint & what resolution you want. In subsequent paragraphs, give a detailed history with names & dates. In the final paragraph, say again what it is you want. Try to make this about a page. Say that you have supporting paperwork & perhaps include the original warranty, as that seems to be the most relevant piece. But don't flood anyone with papers. Also try to be civil, but firm.
Submit these on the same day & wait about two weeks. You should start to see results in your favor.
I have almost always had success at this point with complaints on behalf of myself, my family, or friends. If not, you do have more options. You can contact the media if you are savvy or even setup your own microcentersucks.com website. This is typically cheap & these businesses do not want to lose business because of a squeaky wheel. This slashdot post is actually a decent start. If you have a friend who is a lawyer, have him send additional correspondance on his letterhead.
If none of this works, go to small claims court. This will cost a filing fee, but you will most likely win & be awarded the money they owe you plus the filing fee you paid. Many companies won't fight a small claim. Those that do in cases like these lose.
Perhaps the most important thing that all of these do is that they start or continue a trail of complaints about shady companies. Microcenter may choose to use a less shady warranty administrator or customers who see complaints to both Microcenter and the warranty administrator will think twice before getting the extended warranty. If you don't do it for the $500, do it for the rest of us!
Buy them...but make sure that the _physical_ store you buy them from will handle returns/exchanges.
But different retail stores within the same company will interpret the warranty policy differently so you might want to get a feel for that before you buy. The phone center of a company will always have the strictest interpretation because they have no vested interest in making you happy and upper management watches them very closely. So only use a 1-800 number when you absolutely have to and expect to have your claim denied in the fine print.
When you do buy an extended warranty make sure you get the name of the person who sold it to you. You r claim will have more weight if you drop the name of Mr. Foo who said that it would be ok to get an exchange if X happened.
If you don't buy an extended warranty and you have a sudden need for replacement, many stores will allow you to purchase a warranty after the fact and give you a brand new product in the bargin. In some cases you might have to buy two, one to serve as the "original" warranty (which has now been used) and one to cover the new product.
Remember that these warranties are essentially pure profit for retail companies because a very small fraction of buyers actually use them. Generally they are a ripoff so keep that in mind.
That's the thing about having a lawyer. You don't even have to use them to scare the other guy into honoring their agreement; simply having one is usually enough to make them realize you mean business.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I usually buy things with my american express blue card, it will extend the warrenty on things I purchase up to a year. Recently one of my 3 year one month old Athlon 1800 MPs died, since they were retail parts, they had a 3 year warrenty. I call up AmEx and they refund my purchase price right then and there, even though one can purchase an 1800 MP for siginificantly cheaper today. I turn around and use that refund to be able to significantly upgrade my computer with 2 Athlon 2800 MPs :)
The BBB is next to worthless, but it can't hurt to try. Start with your state consumer protection bureau or attorney general's office.
Local papers might be worth a try. One of our local TV stations has the "problemsolvers", a hype-and-hooplah segment where they chase down cases such as yours. It's massively unfair like all Fox news coverage, but if you can get them on your side, go for it!
Re: insurance
For things like car collision insurance, product warranties, etc., if it is within your means it is always less expensive to self-insure for loss and damages.
I read once where those lucrative extended warranties that get hawked at consumer electronics stores, the ones that bring in great commission to the sales person, to the store and to the insurer, typically have to pay out about US$1 in claim settlements for every US$11 that is collected. I'm not even sure if the salesperson commission or store commission is included in that figure. Either way, it should tell you something about the risks and probabilities that are involved.
Exhibit A: about 3 years ago my S.O. wanted to pay $4/month for insurance on our cell phone and when she brought it in to be replaced about 2 years later because the antenna had predictably gotten bent, wouldn't stay extended, etc. (insert joke) she was informed that that particular malady was not covered. So we'd paid about $100 for peace of mind that was a delusion.
Exhibit B: When I recently purchased an expensive LCD flat screen TV and I reluctantly agreed to look into the extended warranty because of the infamous "dead pixel" issue, I asked the store for a clear statement of exactly what the extended warranty covered since I'd heard of disreputable places that would exempt dead pixels in the outer third of the screen from coverage, up to 10-12 pixels, etc. Despite their enthusiasm for selling the extended warranty, they never did get me a copy of the policy, we didn't get the extended warranty, saved $1000, and been happy as clams with the TV.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
People love to trash Dell, but I have NEVER had a problem with Dell in 5 years honoring their extended warranty service, and have had them ship a newer replacement model for me twice.
There IS a reason they've had such success and enjoyed a high customer satisfaction rating.
http://www.bullnet.com
Homer: Extended warranty? I can't lose!
No business (except maybe SCO, as M$'s legal puppy) is in business to lose money. No matter how good a deal sounds, they are not interested in losing money to get your business. They are going to make money one way or the other.
... first, extended warranties usually don't kick in until the regular warranty expires, so that's interest in the store's pocket, not your bank account. Second, most things covered by an extended warranty are ripe for replacement by the time they come into effect. What will be available in a couple or three years will be better and cheaper than what you buy now.
So ask yourself, if an extended warranty makes them money, how does it do so, and what does that mean to you? They make money because the repair work they do, or the replacement they buy, plus the overhead of administering the warranty and work, is less than what you paid for the warranty. That difference is their magic ??? profit.
For the consumer, this means that on average, the extended warranty is a very bad deal. If you buy an extended warranty at, say, 10% of the purchase price, this means that they will spend far less than 10% on repair and replacement.
Best deal for you is to self-finance your own extended warranty. Instead of buying the extended warranty, put the amount it costs into a savings account. As this account builds up (and it earns interest too), eventually your purchases will fail, and you will have to buy a replacement or pay for repairs. You will find that you still have money left over in your extended warranty account.
Of course, sometimes lucky streaks run against you, and you will break things earlier than average in the beginning. But on average, statistically speaking, your extended warranty account will be a much better deal for you than paying the store that same money.
Besides which
Infuriate left and right
I can't imagine wanting to have an extended warranty serviced by anyone other than then manufacturer. laptop parts are still basically bespoke even if the building blocks are mostly standardized.
dell toshiba ibm and apple all have extended warranty options, a while occasioanly their service isn't great they're actaully capable of supporting a laptop that they made three years ago.
been happy as clams with the TV
As happy as clams AT HIGH TIDE is the proper saying. Why do so many people think clams are happy all the time? It is when the tide comes in and keeps the predators from digging them up that they are happy.
That's even assuming clams can be happy, but I'll leave that for some other pedantic.
Infuriate left and right
You don't mention if you're in the US, but most US cities have an Attorney General that you can speak with that will answer most of your questions regarding transactions like this. If nothing else your attorney general will be able to point you in the right direction of who to contact about this.
Look them up under your local government yellow pages. There might also be a consumer advocate group that you might want to speak with.
If the contract states specific resolutions and they are not being met then it is fraud and open for litigation.
Try calling the Florida Office of Insurance Regulation. The possiblility of having their license revoked might wake them up.
Consumer Helpline
1-800-342-2762 (In Florida)
850-413-3132 (Out-of-State)
Most extended warranty contracts gurantee replacement costs. I don't know specifically about your contract, but I would imagine they had a half way intelligent lawyer that stated in the contract that "comprable" was to their discretion.
Now, given that, it's up to them to decide if 2 pounds of weight is enough of a differance to warrant upgrading your PC. I've personally gone through the whole "fight for all you can on warranty" thing but you can't expect to get 100% of the features in a 100% match. Some features will be better, (screen, hard-drive, cpu); others may not exist (ir port, weight, etc..).
In short, get over it. If you absolutely must have the extra's; pay for them. Otherwise appreciate that the rip-off warrently actually was worth something this time.
There's a gorilla from Manilla whose a fella that stinks of vanilla and has salmonella.
Homer: [holds up a blue crayon] I want you to stick this crayon into my brain.
Moe: No problem -- the ol' Crayola oblongata.
Meanwhile, Lisa draws a picture of her father as a Renaissance-era intellectual. She reaches for the powder blue crayon, finds that it's missing, and realizes what has happened to it.
Back at Moe's Tavern, Moe begins to put the crayon in Homer's nose.
Moe: All right, tell me when I hit the sweet spot.
Homer: Deeper, you pusillanimous pilsner pusher!
Moe: All right, all right. [with a small hammer and chisel, taps the crayon further up Homer's nose]
Homer: De-fense! [woof-woof] De-fense! [woof-woof]
Moe: Eh, that's pretty dumb. But, uh
Homer: Extended warranty? How can I lose?
Moe: Perfect.
Extended warranties are generally a rip-off, considering their high cost and low liklihood of having a warranty-covered failure. IOW, while a form of insurance, the premium is damn expensive.
Now, having paid that damn expensive premium, and having a covered failure, you should damn well expect gold-plated service.
Personally, I don't purchase extended warranties, but TEHO. However, it doesn't surprise me that the sleaze related to the high premiums extends to having claims settled.
You could've hired me.
So far, I've gotten them to agree to give me 1200 bucks store credit, which is still 500 bucks shy of the purchase price.
If you don't mind me aski, what reasons were they giving to avoid paying you the full amount?
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When I'm confronted with an obviously shady company bent on getting away with my money.. I usually do the following: :P
1) Any time you're talking with someone on the phone, ask for their name before they know you're angry.
2) Always pay with a credit card so if it's within 6 months you can charge back.
3) Immediately let the BBB know about the problems you're having. File a complaint. Most companies value their BBB record.
4) Let your attorney general know IMMEDIATELY. You'll have to send them documentation but once they're moving then things get done.
5) Call AND write your congressman. Amazingly, most congressmen don't have enough to do so if you call them about something like this then they'll often help you do something about it including getting the right parties moving.
6) File a complaint with the FTC. Again, they're slow to get moving but when they do.. lookout..
7) I've gotten good results a couple times by asking for the legal department instead of the manager.
Apple wouldn't do that. Do they make more money selling replacement boards at retail or shipping them through AppleCare at cost? Right. There's an opportunity cost with that decision which you can be certain they have factored in. So yes, it is cheaper for them, but no, don't assume that is passed on to you.
They usually love this kind of stuff. Most areas have one or more stations that will confront the asshats with media exposure. They usually fold like a bad hand.
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
For houses and cars, the worry is expensive side effects, like paying someone else's medical bills or their expensive car. Or for a house, if it burns down, that's a lot of money to come up with, especially since the bank probably owns more of the house than you do. House insurance also covers injuries on the property,like that handyman who falls off the ladder.
These aren't related to repairs. I would never get an extended warranty for a car, and my house came with a useless warranty bought by the realtor which I did not renew.
Of course, an extended warranty may be worth it for peace of mind, if the repairs covered would be a big blow, and if (this is the killer) the warranty is actually backed by a reputable company. But for, say, home stereos, cameras, computers, etc, extended warranties are useless.
The trick to realizing it is that warranties average out over many items. The sellers average it out over thousands or millions of the same item, whereas as Joe Consumer averages it out over dozens or hundreds of different items.
Infuriate left and right
Stock trading near 52 week low on the offtrack-pink-sheet-3*5 card market. Last investors meeting in 2002. Board made up of insiders and retired insiders.
Notice they have an automobile division. Be thankful it was just a laptop.
You can file a report and they will send the company a letter and stuff for you. It also has company ratings. So if a company has pulled crap on customers before then they may have a record in their database. It is free too.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
Wish I could say you fell into my trap, but ... heck, now I have to go look that up!
Infuriate left and right
I had a similar situation with a Toshiba laptop I bought a few years back. The unit came with a 1 year depot repair warranty standard. I planned on keeping the unit for at least three years (I was in college) so I purchased an extended 3 year warranty.
After having the laptop for a year and a half the unit would not power on from time to time. I didn't think much of it at first until the unit would not turn on at all. I called the support hotline and explained the problem. They said it was the battery but I knew it wasn't because I had swapped batteries with a friend who had the same model. I got the new battery and it did not fix the problem. I call support again and explain to them that the battery did not fix the problem.
At this point they claimed to have no record of me purchasing an extended warranty. I told them they had sent me a battery already and they claimed no such thing had happened. At this point I asked to speak to their manager. After on hold for 30 minutes I finally got through. I explained to them the situation. Again she said there was no record of the extended warranty. I asked her to look at my account information. She said there were only two entries. The first was the shipment of my laptop and the second was an unnamed package sent out a week ealier. I told her that the other entry was the battery that was sent out. She said there was no way to confirm this. I told her that I would be happy to fax a copy of the original invoice proving the extended warranty. She said that the document could not be sent because there was not a record with Toshiba.
At this point I became angry and asked to speak with her manager. She said that her position was the highest in the support department. I asked who her boss was and she said his name. I asked to be transfered but she refused. She then said I could write a letter to corporate headquarters. At this point I hung up.
Since I was in college and had free time I decided to call support every chance I could. My roommate was a support person at one time and he said that the customer should always hang up first. I decided to exploit this rule.
I called every waking hour and spent as much time as I could with anyone I could talk to. I would ask questions completely unrelated to my problem and would always make sure the person on the other end knew my name. I also made sure that I wrote down the name of the person I was talking to.
After doing this for two weeks I had talked with 58 different people and had spoken to some individuals as many as six times. I finally got my way and was asked to fax the invoice.
So here is my advice to you. If you have the time, be a thorn in the side of the company. Waste their time and resources.
you are right. they are wrong. going in store and making a scene is a good way to make sure you get your (right) way.
There was a place I got a warrantee through...MAC Camera in New Jersey -- basically a rip off joint. I had to pay for shipping it there and then $50!! to have it shipped back, and they said that there was no problem, when it was most certainly busted (drive not recognized).
Just get the manufacturers warrantee. stay away from asses like mac camera. If I am ever in that area of new jersey I am going to go in and yell at them at the top of my lungs, I wasted $300 on the extended warrantee and then another $80 sending it to them and back.
They claim that weight is not a "feature" of a laptop. Pretty lame. That's why they won't pay me the full amount. There's a bunch of other nonsense that's happened since I dropped this story into the edit que. I will write up my experiences and post them here on slashdot. For now, I'll say this simply--I feel that Warrantech has treated me in a rude, and high handed manner. Personally, this is the worst "service" I have ever received, especially considering the price I paid for the warranty.
Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the advice. I am working on an update so I can let you know how it all turned out.
I am still, one pissed off customer. I hope to turn this into an FAQ to help out other people in this situation. No one should pay 300 bucks for an extended warranty, then get jerked around.
I've seen people use this one. Go into the store. Talk about the products as if you're going to buy a brand new laptop. I'd avoid saying that you're specifically buying the product, but try to give that impression. Ask about the coverage. Ask about the features of the coverage. Ask some pertinent scenario-type questions. Try to involve someone in management to help you make your decision to buy this coverage. Really get them to tell you that the coverage covers "everything."
After you are well and satisfied that they've told you that your current situation would result in the outcome you desire, drop the bomb on them and ask them to make it right.
I can see many people have recd (and delivered) lots of swearing ins. Can anything be done like recording a swear and complaining it with your local courts. What is the legal status regarding swearing?
This new year I bought my HP laptop and was thinking about extending warranty; I think I will never step into it.
A full account of my experiences, and a brief FAQ on warranty vendors is up on my xanga. you can find the link above.
i'm an idiot. i should have left the permalink. Here it is.